Broadway Breakdown: "Matt Reviews: WICKED: FOR GOOD" w/ Andrew Chappelle
Host: Matt Koplik
Guest: Andrew Chappelle
Release Date: November 27, 2025
Overview
In this lively and irreverent episode of "Broadway Breakdown," host Matt Koplik and guest Andrew Chappelle (Hamilton, & Juliet, Tactful Pettiness podcast) dive deep into WICKED: FOR GOOD, the second installment of the blockbuster two-part film adaptation of the beloved musical. They reminisce about their personal connections to Wicked, dissect the merits and foibles of both the original Broadway show and the new movies, and share their very honest, very theater-kid opinions, all with a signature mix of fan passion, dramaturgical rigor, and cutting wit.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
Theater Kid Pride & Life on Broadway (01:25–05:47)
- Matt and Andrew banter about the stereotype of the "cool" theater kid, ultimately embracing unabashed nerdiness:
- Matt: "You're in Les Mis. You're not too cool for school. Just, like, be a nerd like me. It’s fine. It’s okay." (01:48)
- Andrew shares his early days as a hardcore musical nerd, obsessing over cast recordings, especially Wicked:
- Andrew on first learning about Wicked: "He was explaining...she rises, she's flying, but her cape takes over the entire stage. And I was just like, I have to see this. I have to see this." (02:32)
- Both describe the enthusiasm of their student years, calling the stage door to check if Shoshana Bean was performing as Elphaba—even when they weren’t seeing the show! (05:37)
First Experiences with Wicked (Live & On Film) (05:18–08:15)
- Andrew fondly recalls seeing Stephanie J. Block as Elphaba in LA, noting how much he loves her powerhouse voice.
- Matt reflects on seeing the original Broadway cast before officially opening, emphasizing the magic of experiencing "Defying Gravity" fresh with a full audience:
- Matt: "When I first saw it, 1800 people never heard 'Defying Gravity' before. You cannot replicate that now." (07:02)
The Movie Adaptation’s Magic
- Matt says the first film captured that sense of awe musically: "When Cynthia Erivo sang that 'anymore' and you heard, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. I started to get choked up." (07:02)
- Andrew watched WICKED: FOR GOOD with his boyfriend’s family, rewatching for better acoustics, which he insists are crucial for the experience.
Movie Musical Analysis & Pacing (09:02–12:21)
- Matt compares WICKED movies to Chicago, longing for tighter pacing:
- Matt: "The button...is a sound cue for the next scene so there’s no room for applause. You just go right into the next thing. And I really like that." (09:25)
- Wishes Wicked's movies didn't drag in places, noting air (not content) could have been trimmed.
- Andrew defends the film's “epic” pacing:
- "They formatted it more like an epic, like a Harry Potter or a Lord of the Rings style film... you sit down knowing you’re going to be taken into another land." (10:10)
Musical Numbers: Hits & Misses (14:12–16:24)
- Andrew's highlight: “No Good Deed is the moment.” (14:32)
- Recalls it brought back his first-time awe on stage.
- Matt's highlights: Praises Ariana Grande’s surprisingly effective performance, especially her Glinda quip about Dorothy:
- Matt: "<...> Dorothy in the distance being like, 'Wait for me ...' And Ariana Grande just goes, 'Ugh. It’s always something with that girl.’ And I just thought that was very, very funny." (15:07)
Choreography & Ensemble Movement (16:28–16:47)
- Matt laments the film’s static ensemble in “Thank Goodness” versus the Broadway show’s kinetic energy: “What I love in the stage show is sort of like the constant twirling that the ensemble does.” (16:28)
- Andrew jokes about the stage ensemble risking slipping discs for the iconic dance moves.
The “Wicked Witch of the East” Scene & Characterization of Nessa (17:24–19:38, 20:49–22:36)
- Matt critiques the film’s approach to Nessa’s storyline, wishing the character could go “full blown bitch” for more dramatic punch, noting the film missed opportunities by softening her edge due to modern sensitivities:
- Matt: “You need to earn the title Wicked Witch of the East... if she's dying two hours later ... her evil legacy is the travel ban... that’s not quite enough." (20:49)
- Andrew sympathizes: "It’s a classic issue now with Beyoncé’s Internet... everyone’s worried about getting canceled." (20:49)
- Both agree on the challenge of making an impact with a tricky supporting, underwritten role in a big adaptation.
Audience Reception, "Cancel" Culture, & Art's Risk-taking (22:36–23:32)
- Discussion about making art in an age of Twitter scrutiny and the impossibility of pleasing everyone:
- Matt: "If you’re trying to make art that doesn’t offend anyone ... it’s hard to make something that packs a punch." (23:03)
The Wizard & Morrible: Casting & Characterizations (43:07–46:32)
- Jeff Goldblum’s turn as the Wizard is commended for balancing warmth and creepiness:
- Matt: “He does have to have a sinister edge to him, but he also kind of has to have a warming first approach. ... Goldblum has that ‘my weird uncle’ energy, but... are you my weird uncle?” (43:10)
- Matt wishes Michelle Yeoh brought more to Madame Morrible, brainstorming dream alternate castings (Glenn Close, Emma Thompson, Sheryl Lee Ralph).
- Behind-the-scenes: Michelle Yeoh was specifically pursued for the role, reportedly only agreeing after appeals from the director, producer, and lead actresses.
New Songs and Their Place (32:47–33:32, 57:06–59:03)
- Matt is ambivalent about the two new film songs (both ballads), craving an energetic number for Act 2.
- Both compare these songs to Dreamgirls’ new film tunes—acknowledging it can take time for them to catch on.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- Matt on theater nerds: “Be a nerd like me. It’s fine. It’s okay.” (01:48)
- Andrew on discovering Wicked as a student: “We would watch Eden Espinosa 'Defying Gravity,’ Eden Espinosa 'No Good Deed,’ Shoshana Bean ‘Wizard or Die’... and we would just, like, memorize the riffs...” (05:37)
- Matt on the magic of original cast discoveries: “When I first saw it, 1800 people never heard 'Defying Gravity' before. You cannot replicate that now.” (07:02)
- Andrew on the 'No Good Deed' number: “Had me feeling the way I felt the first time I saw Wicked and Defying Gravity ended... that’s the way I felt after No Good Deed.” (14:32)
- Matt on Ariana Grande’s Glinda: “No notes... I thought that she was pretty exquisite in this. I thought she was equally heartbreaking and funny and sounded beautiful.” (15:07)
- On the ensemble’s missing movement (Matt): “The only movement came from those women in pink... What I love in the stage show is the constant twirling.” (16:28)
Movie Structure, Musical Expansion, and Fan Service (10:10, 29:55–36:21, 65:35–66:21)
- Andrew appreciates the films showing new characters, scenes, and places for longtime fans, rather than just a direct stage-to-screen transplant.
- Both note the production’s epic ambitions and the visual sumptuousness—the real tulips, fantasy landscapes, and creative flourishes.
Easter Eggs & "Fan Art" Moments
- Discussion of the much-memed "foreheads against the door, crying" shot (65:35–66:21), and the recreation of a famous Wicked fan art scene.
Criticisms & Debates
- Pacing: Matt finds parts of both films "airy" and wants more momentum (09:02–10:10).
- Nessa’s arc: Both find the movie misses an opportunity for her to be more morally complex/bold—and suggest it was over-sanitized (17:24–22:36).
- New Songs: Both think the two ballads drag rather than spark; Matt proposes the idea of a more driven, "I want" song for Elphaba (32:47–36:21; 57:06–59:03).
- **Some movie musical numbers are shot like music videos, not always advancing story (56:08–57:06).
Broadway History Deep Cuts (Throughout, esp. 19:01–20:49, 47:24–48:47)
- Brief but juicy behind-the-scenes: Carol Shelley (original Morrible) worked with costume/wig teams to suggest Morrible was part animal, and her wigs shrank as her animal nature grew.
- Matt: “[Her] wigs...hiding her horns, which she is shaving as the show continues...” (47:24)
- The “Wicked Witch speech” as a signature actress moment; speculation on dream Morribles.
Pop Culture & Earworm Moments
- Andrew quips the Wizard would definitely have a podcast: "It would be the biggest podcast in all the land." (42:50)
- Tangents on the sex cardigan ("Normalize not being fully naked during sex!") (52:20), Gen Z mannerisms, and which characters would survive the press circuit of a potential third movie.
Final Takeaways & Reflections (63:42–66:21)
- Both hosts praise Erivo and Grande as exemplary performers bringing deep passion and undeniable star power.
- Matt: “That is what you get from just openly being like, yeah, I’m a theater fan and I love it, and it’s not super cool, but watch me give you a gift anyway.” (64:03)
- Final thoughts circle back to the show's core themes: chosen family, nostalgia for youth, the impact of favorite art, and the value of being passionately, unapologetically yourself.
- Matt also addresses a commonly cited "plot hole" from fans (how Elphaba knew about the Scarecrow plan); he points out the film includes a note as a clear, if subtle, explanation. (64:03–65:35)
Important Timestamps
- 01:48 – On embracing theater nerdiness
- 05:37 – Andrew’s Wicked-obsessed student years
- 07:02 – Magic of the original Broadway audience reaction
- 09:25 – Movie musical pacing contrast: Chicago vs. Wicked
- 14:32 – "No Good Deed" movie number as personal highlight
- 15:07 – Ariana Grande’s comedic Glinda moment
- 20:49 – The "Wicked Witch of the East" scene debate
- 32:47–33:32 – New film songs as ballads; wishing for more energy
- 43:10–44:29 – Goldblum as the Wizard; Michelle Yeoh casting anecdotes
- 47:24 – Carol Shelley’s animalistic Morrible
- 52:20 – Sex cardigan discourse
- 64:03–66:21 – Final thoughts on love, nostalgia, and being a fan
Tone and Language
True to the hosts, the tone is exuberant, candid, at times foul-mouthed, and filled with in-jokes and references only true Broadway kids will catch. The language is peppered with passionate hot takes, pop cultural riffs, and genuine affection for the material—even when, or especially when, they’re picking it apart.
Closing
The episode closes with Patti LuPone as Matt’s "diva of choice," and warm, mutual plugs for their respective podcasts ("Tactful Pettiness" and "Broadway Breakdown"). Both hosts share where to follow them and tease further content for diehard fans.
"Cool is aloof. Cool is sort of the austere quality that Michelle Yeoh is trying to give to Madame Morrible. And it's okay to say you want something. It's okay. To say that you love something and that when you do, you get women like Ariana and Cynthia, who, make no mistake, these are women. They say, I'm not that girl. I'm like, that's right, because you are that woman."
— Matt Koplik (64:03)
For more deep-dive discussion on the legacy, artistry, and fabulous messiness of Wicked and movie musicals, this episode is an unmissable celebration—and interrogation—of Broadway's greenest, grandest fairy tale.