Transcript

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Hey guys, it's Matt. Doing a little quick preamble before the episode. I wanted to give you a bit of an update on BroadwayCon. As you know, I am going to be doing an hour long episode at BroadwayCon on July 27th. That is a Saturday. BroadwayCon will be at the Hilton on 6th Avenue. I mistakenly said the Marriott in an earlier episode because that's where it was last year, but it is at the Hilton. And if you don't have tickets but you're thinking about going, I totally suggest it's a lot of fun. And not just, you know, our panel, but there are going to be other panels with Broadway Podcast network and there's going to be meet and greets and there's going to be a whole like, I don't know how to flea market, I guess you would call it. Yeah, flea market and Broadway merch trading and things like that. But I can announce who our guests are going to be for our episode. They are Breakdown favorites Will and Rachel Anderson, otherwise known as the theater lovers, that Instagram account that we all love. As you guys know, Will and Rachel are awesome. They are smart, they funny, they have so much knowledge of Broadway history, but they've never actually done a traditional episode of Broadway Breakdown. They've always done Tony episodes. So this is, you know, dipping their toes in the pool of a traditional Broadway breakdown. So it's going to be exciting to talk with them about that. What show will we be discussing? Well, that's kind of up to you guys. Will and Rachel and I are coming up with four shows that we are super informative of, that we're super passionate about, that we would have no problem talking about on the fly. And we will announce what those four shows are shortly. And once we do, if you are at BroadwayCon, you will get to vote on which show you want us to cover. Now, this isn't going to be a tallying system. This is going to be a choose at random out of a bowl system at the recording, in the moment on the fly. So if there's a specific show that you want to desperately for us to cover, you got to vote for it. You got to have your friends vote for it. You know, put in there's little slips of paper into the bowl. And if you come to the recording, you get to vote a second time. So bring yourself and your friends and vote more times just so that way the show that you want has a better shot of getting picked. We are either going to be recording at 1:15pm that day or at 2:30 it's still being a little not debated, but we wanted 115. That's what we requested. But we then found out that there's going to be a Disney sing along around that same time and there was a bit of concern of like whether we would have to compete with that because I don't think I can compete with Disney. So we're seeing if we can make 2:30 work instead. But Will and Rachel have very justifiably busy schedules, as do I. I'm very busy and important. But we will find out more about that shortly. BPN will release some information, do a big press announcement about that soon. But I'm giving you guys the early exclusive. Also, if you can't make it to BroadwayCon. But there's stuff about any of the shows we announced that you want us to cover. Every day leading up to BroadwayCon, I will have a link, the NGL link, which is the link I use for my anonymous ask me anythings. I will post that on my stories and each day to ask about a specific show of the four that we have. If you want us to talk about something. So let's say one of the shows is A Chorus Line. On day one I'll be like, okay, option one is A Chorus Line. Here's the link. What is something about the show you love? Something you want us to acknowledge? Day two. Oh, Annie or Angels in America, whatever, so on and so forth. But that's it for now. Yeah. So stay tuned for more info on Instagram and on next week's episode before BroadwayCon. And that's it. If you haven't yet, make sure to join the Discord Channel for Broadway Breakdown. The link will be in the description for this episode. Last week we had almost 50 members in the Discord. Now we have over 80, which is amazing. We're well on our way to getting to 100 and it's very exciting. The channel has been awesome. You guys are so passionate and smart and funny and the conversations have been wonderful and I really would love more people to join just because it's a great community. It's only weeks old and it's already a great community. And also, don't forget to rate, review and subscribe. And that's it. Enjoy the episode, guys. Bye. Hello all you theater lovers both out and proud and on the DL. And welcome back to Broadway Breakdown, a podcast discussing the history und legacy of American theater's most exclusive address, Broadway. This is a continuation of the series problematic question mark shows you're mad at and their possible Redemption. This is. It's a return, but it's like, probably going to be a shortened return. We'll see. I'm. I'm flying by the seat of my pants here. I'm your host, Matt Koplik, the least famous and most opinionated of all the Broadway podcast hosts. And I also want to say before I introduce my guest, some of you have been hearing on recent episodes and on podcasts that I guessed on us talking about the graphics of Zoom when we record on Zoom, and my guests can confirm this with me, that Zoom has decided to have opinions about the episodes as we record them. And so you'll hear us exclaiming sometimes about a thumbs up or a thumbs down or a bubble or a gobbledygook. And it's because Zoom will just say, I liked what you said. I didn't like what you said. So if you hear me and my guest exclaiming anything that sounds out of the ordinary, it's because Zoom has made itself known. So please welcome. After I just said that, after I just said that my works, my screen exploded with fireworks. Zoom was like, we enjoy being recognized. Thank you so much. And they also recognized that I, I. And I just got a thumbs up. Recognize that I am iconic. I am the moment. The moment is me. So please welcome my guest. He's been on before. You've heard me on his podcast, Life's put a song. He's opinionated, but the opinions are like sorbet. And for that, we love it. It's very light, very sweet, not big on the calories. Please welcome back John Riley. Hi, John.

Summary

Broadway Breakdown: SEVEN BRIDES FOR SEVEN BROTHERS with Jon Reilly

Host: Matt Koplik
Guest: Jon Reilly
Release Date: July 18, 2024

Episode Overview

In this episode, Matt Koplik and guest Jon Reilly (host of the "Life’s But a Song" podcast) take a deep, brutally honest, and frequently hilarious look at the legacy, challenges, and problematic nature of the beloved MGM musical, Seven Brides for Seven Brothers (1954). They scrutinize the cinematic classic's impact, its notorious plotline, its translation to the stage, and whether it deserves its esteemed place in musical theater history. This forms part of Matt’s ongoing series examining “problematic shows you’re mad at and their possible redemption.”

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers?" – Context of Its Legacy

Unusual for the Podcast: This is a rare episode focused primarily on a movie musical, not a Broadway show, because the film's influence on musical theater is so outsized.
Cultural Impact: The movie remains beloved, had box office success (top ten in 1954), was Oscar-nominated for Best Picture, and spawned TV shows, remakes, and notable regional stage productions.
- "This movie was in the top 10 highest grossing films of the year. It was a nominee for Best Picture at the Oscars. That's super embarrassing." — Matt, [11:24]
No Major Backlash: Unlike others in the "problematic" series, this film was never publicly reevaluated or especially condemned; most reactions remain nostalgic and affectionate.

2. First Encounters and Enduring Appeal

Jon’s Nostalgia: Watched as a child, chiefly remembered for the barn raising dance.
- "A lot of people forget about the rest of the movie. Except for the barn dance." — Jon, [15:40]
Matt’s First-Time Watch: Only knew of its reputation—discovering the “problematic” plot and the unexpected horniness of the movie in real time.
- "I did not know about the kidnapping. I did not know about the misogyny. I did not know about... how horny this movie is." — Matt, [23:39]

3. The Plot: A Wild, Problematic Ride

Plot Breakdown: Set in 1850s Oregon, Adam weds Millie after knowing her for moments, and she discovers she’s expected to cook, clean, and civilize his six unruly brothers. The brothers, after Millie’s “training," kidnap women they fancy to forcibly bring to the homestead, inspiring an avalanche to cut them off from town. Over time, the women warm up to their captors—a plot loosely based on the Roman myth of the rape of the Sabine women.
- "Adam comes in at the top of the movie being like, I'm going to get a wife today. Today's the day that I'm getting married." — Matt, [40:14]
The Barn Raising Number: Universally recognized as the film's high point—a technical dance masterpiece and the scene everyone remembers.

4. Agency, Misogyny & Stockholm Syndrome

Agency Debate: The screenplay’s credited writer, Dorothy Kingsley, claimed she gave Millie (the main female character) “agency.” Matt disagrees after reading both the original short story and watching the film, finding Millie mostly passive and righteous but not actually active.
- "Dorothy Kingsley is absolutely wrong... in the short story, Millie actually hatches the plan to kidnap the wives. In the movie, she's just kind of there to admonish men." — Matt, [50:54–55:19]
Stockholm Syndrome: The hosts note the classic “falling for your kidnapper” dynamic, with Jon frustrated by the quick reversal of outrage to desire among the brides.
- "Ladies, ladies, you are better than this! Remember what, a few months ago, you were mad at them!" — Jon, [65:01]

5. The Musical's Gender Politics & Attempts at Adaptation

Attempts to Fix the Story: Various stage adaptations (including a Broadway attempt in the 1980s) unsuccessfully tried to “fix” the story’s gender dynamics, often making only surface-level changes.
Frank Rich’s Scathing Review: The infamous NY Times critic called the 1982 stage adaptation a “threadbare touring package” and criticized everything from the inexplicably red-haired brothers to the new, uninspired songs.
- “How does one begin to describe Seven Brides for Seven Brothers, the threadbare touring package that mistakenly unpacked on Broadway last night?" — Frank Rich (quoted by Matt), [112:00]

6. Queerness, Horniness, and Choreographic Glory

Covert Gay Appeal: The movie’s parade of shirtless, color-coded, dancing brothers, its “1950s horniness,” and the subtext of isolated men living together, all get the hosts’s irreverent, queer reading.
- "If Pride Weekend was a movie, it would be this movie. Because on the surface level, they’re doing so much for the gays. But if you actually stop and pay attention—like, oh, you don’t care about the gays at all." — Matt, [31:51]
The Barn Dance as High Art: Despite everything, the barn raising choreography remains iconic and, arguably, the single justification for the film’s cultural memory.

7. Why the Stage Versions Fail

Stage Challenges: The central barn raising dance is so athletic and cinematic that stage versions inevitably disappoint; the story’s issues only magnify on a modern stage.
Still a Regional Staple: Despite its Broadway flop, the show remains a perennial favorite for community and regional theaters.

8. How Could The Story Actually Be Fixed?

The Hosts’ Consensus: Ultimately, the plot is so tied to kidnapping and forced marriage that it’s likely irredeemable without fundamentally changing the story’s DNA.
Modern Sensibilities: Attempts to soften or justify the abductions—on stage or in reboots—fall flat. Audiences today find the central premise "creepy and weird."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Musical’s Enduring Popularity:
- “There isn't a major public backlash about this movie. When I shared on Instagram that we were covering this, the majority of the responses were 'I love this movie.'” — Matt, [10:34]
On Agency in the Story:
- "In the original short story, Millie—the 'bride'— actually engineers the kidnapping plot! In the movie, she's just a bystander." — Matt, [50:54–55:19]
On Stockholm Syndrome:
- "Nobody talks about the Stockholm in this!" — Jon, [20:06]
- "The brothers never enforce violence or reward submissiveness, but outside of that, every other thing you would see in a textbook definition [of Stockholm syndrome] is here." — Matt, [63:35]
On the Film’s Horniness:
- "I did not know... how horny this movie is. And that was a pleasant surprise." — Matt, [23:39]
On the Broadway Flop:
- “Its scenes don’t so much end as lurch into darkness... Seven Brides for Seven Brothers, the fifth musical bomb to be planted in the Alvin in ten months.” — Frank Rich, [112:00]
On Attempts to 'Fix' the Show:
- "You can't really escape the kidnapping plotline. I guess what you can do is maybe try to frame it in a way where it's so obviously wrong—and hilariously wrong—but then how do you come back from that?" — Matt, [126:02]
On the Queer Appeal and Costuming:
- "If Pride Weekend was a movie, it would be this movie... hot men, rainbow shirts, but the narrative doesn't care about the gays." — Matt, [31:51]
On Possible Revivals
- “Do you think that it’ll ever come back to Broadway?” — Jon, [127:18]
- “God, no. ...I don’t know how you come back from the kidnapping, or Adam being the absolute worst.” — Matt, [127:22–128:02]

Timestamps for Key Segments

[06:46] – Introduction of the topic & why it’s unique for Broadway Breakdown
[10:34] – Lack of backlash/why people still love the movie
[15:20] – How Jon & Matt first encountered the movie
[23:06] – Matt’s first time watching: real-time discoveries of film’s issues
[37:42] – Detailed plot summary with context and comic asides
[50:48] – What the original story is, how the film changes (or doesn’t) female agency
[63:02] – Stockholm syndrome segment
[76:28] – The barn raising dance and why only the film could pull it off
[111:45] – Reading of Frank Rich’s iconic review of the 1982 Broadway version
[126:02] – Discussion: Is there any way to “fix” this property?
[130:00+] – What makes a good revival; thoughts on current state of musical theater revivals
[141:08] – How modern audiences and even conservatives might react to the movie’s plot today

Tone & Style

Matt and Jon are razor-witted, foul-mouthed, and fiercely opinionated, but their bone-deep love of musical theater is infectious. The episode swings rapidly between deep research, sharp social critique, high-camp humor (lots of sexual innuendo and queering of Golden Age tropes), and bursts of musical geekery, always maintaining an irreverent, insider-y, and queer-informed viewpoint.

Final Thoughts

Seven Brides for Seven Brothers is a paradox: a film revered for its athletic choreography and suppressed for its aggressively misogynistic plot, which no amount of revision or stage adaptation seems able to redeem. Matt and Jon’s verdict is that, while the movie holds nostalgic and even queer-camp value for many, its legacy is fraught, its story deeply flawed, and its musical numbers (save for the barn dance) largely forgettable.

As Matt puts it:
"I could appreciate some of it but I could not enjoy all of it." [141:47]

Closing Diva

The episode closes with an ode to Audra McDonald, the ultimate Broadway diva, as chosen by Jon for the show’s "Diva of the Day."

For listeners:

Join the discussion on the Broadway Breakdown Discord. Share your own takes, barn-raising clips, or production stories in the episode thread!

[Episode available at: bwaybreakdown.substack.com ]

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SEVEN BRIDES FOR SEVEN BROTHERS w/ Jon Reilly