Broadway Breakdown: "So. Let's Talk WICKED (PART 1)" w/ Joel Guerrero-Sparks

Air Date: December 2, 2024
Host: Matt Koplik
Guest: Joel Guerrero-Sparks
Theme: A passionate, deep-dive dissection of the long-awaited "WICKED (Part 1)" movie musical adaptation—how it compares to the original Broadway show, its creative choices, performances, and its place in movie musical history.

Episode Overview

Matt Koplik, self-described as “the least famous and most opinionated” of Broadway podcasters, welcomes long-time friend and fellow theatre obsessive Joel Guerrero-Sparks for a sprawling, irreverent conversation about the first installment of the "WICKED" movie adaptation (released November 2024). Drawing on decades of fandom, performance experience, and theatre scholarship, the duo tackle listener-submitted questions from the Broadway Breakdown Discord, debate the best musical-to-film adaptations, analyze changes and performances, and gleefully nitpick every possible choice in the highly anticipated film.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Histories with "Wicked"

[08:53]

• Both Matt and Joel grew up with "Wicked" as a theatre touchstone:
  • Joel: “Wicked was Bible” for early 2000s drama kids—even those for whom “there was not a track for me in it.”
  • Matt: Saw the original Broadway cast pre-opening, “a core memory,” and maintains the original is “still the best cast of Wicked.”
• Both note the nostalgia built into the show for their generation.

2. Stage vs. Movie: Performance Evolution

[12:15]

• Matt on Broadway's "machine" quality:

  “Joe Mantello has not stepped foot into that building more than five times since the show has opened… It is run like a machine.”

  • Attributes loss of freshness and discovery in long-running NYC cast compared to the first years.
• Matt draws a stark contrast to the feeling of seeing the film for the first time and being moved, not necessarily by the movie alone but “that’s the song” (“Defying Gravity”)—the excitement returns after 20 years.

3. The Case for Two Parts – Pacing and Structure

[31:44]

• Did “Wicked” need to be two movies? Both agree yes, if only to truly “sit in that world.”
  • Joel: “I want to sit in that world for six hours.”
  • Matt: Movie could lose 15 minutes via subtle streamlining, but not by cutting songs or major scenes.

4. Subtle Enhancements, Not Radical Changes

[34:24]

• The adaptation is faithful, with “no changes… only additions”—deeper backstory, pacing, and made-for-film details.
• Small difference: In the movie, Elphaba isn’t enrolled at Shiz solely to care for Nessa, which tweaks the family dynamic.

5. Nostalgia vs. Cinematic Reimagination

[21:03], [24:27]

• Matt’s hierarchy of film adaptations, factoring both nostalgia and film craft:
  • Top 5: Sound of Music, Oliver, Chicago, Little Shop of Horrors, Hedwig and the Angry Inch
• Why “Wicked” may or may not crack this list is discussed at length—movie is mostly faithful, rather than a radical cinematic reinvention.

6. Musical Integration & “Musical World” Building

[25:08], [27:51]

• Joel explores the difficulty of transitioning musical storytelling from stage to screen:

  “So just putting the two [Wicked and Chicago]… Chicago was creating two worlds… Wicked is one world all the way through.”

• Matt:

  “Does singing make sense in this world? …Wicked… has the benefit of being in a fantasy land that we associate with music because of The Wizard of Oz.”

7. Visual Choices: Cinematography, Color, Lens Flare

[41:41]

• The film’s color palette and use of “lens flare” has divided internet audiences.
  • Jon M. Chu’s approach: wanted Oz to “feel lived in and real” rather than fantastical/Technicolor.
  • Matt’s take: “If you want my take, I’m like, can we up the coloring just 10%, just a little, like a scloche…”

8. Riffing & Vocal Performance Choices

[50:54], [54:47]

• Discord question: “How much riffing is too much?” Discussed re: Cynthia Erivo’s “I’m Not That Girl.”
  • Both defend Cynthia: What feels like “riffing” is mostly well-placed melodic variation or character-driven vocal choices.
  • Matt: “Cynthia, I think, is getting unfairly maligned… she doesn’t riff that much.”
  • Joel on Ariana’s restraint: “Ariana Grande is a bigger fan of Wicked than I am… she wanted to respect the original source material.”

9. Chopped Up Defying Gravity – Why It Works

[61:28]

• The adaptation of “Defying Gravity”: Pauses, flashbacks, and dramatic beats expand the act-one finale for film.
  • Joel: “You have to. It builds on itself… [onstage] it’s a bullet train… in the movie, allowing it to be a close-up… is very important.”
  • “The choices each character is making is very, very intentional.”

10. Nuanced, Newly Humanized Characterizations

[79:59], [91:36]

• Both extol Ariana Grande’s Glinda for comedic “bravery” and depth, resisting the “slapstick” excesses of some Broadway successors.
  • Matt: “Kristin always comes from a place of truth... that's what Ariana did.”
• On Cynthia Erivo’s Elphaba: Deeply grounded, dry, “not angry” but a “nerd”—closer to Idina Menzel’s original, less the broody cliché that became Broadway tradition over the years.

Notable Quotes & Moments

“It’s not my number one. The question was whether it’s in my top five… I can safely say it is definitely in the top 10. I’m gonna need to talk with Joel throughout this episode to decide if it cracks the five.”
— Matt Koplik [19:47]

“Chicago was creating two worlds… Wicked is one world all the way through. And extending those moments… and having Defying Gravity be a different style of sequence, I think completely builds the emotion into those moments.”
— Joel Guerrero-Sparks [25:33]

“When you’re embarrassed to be a musical and try to comment on the fact that you’re a musical, you fail.”
— Matt Koplik re: Mean Girls movie [28:47]

“When I direct a show, the better the show is, the more notes I have. Any critique… is in that light; the better something is, the more I have to say about it…”
— Joel Guerrero-Sparks [18:20]

“There are no changes from the stage show. It's only additions… delving deeper, adding a little more backstory…”
— Matt Koplik [34:24]

“You could suck out somewhere between ten to forty seconds [from each scene]. Some of it is dialogue we don’t need; some is a pause that stays too long. By doing that with every scene, you immediately shave off ten minutes.”
— Matt Koplik [36:19]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [06:58] – Joel introduces herself, sets up her history with "Wicked"
• [15:45] – Matt’s emotional response to hearing "Defying Gravity" in the film
• [20:10] – Ranking Matt’s Top 5 film adaptations & where "Wicked" fits in
• [34:24] – Discussing movie’s faithfulness; "It’s only additions"
• [41:41] – On the film’s color palette and lens flare debate
• [54:23] – Detailed discussion of riffing and vocal choices (esp. Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande)
• [61:14] – Analysis of the “It’s me” moment in “Defying Gravity”
• [79:59] – Differences in Glinda portrayals; Truth vs. Slapstick
• [91:36] – Specifics of what made Cynthia’s and Ariana’s performances stand out
• [106:53] – Listeners’ poll: The most successful numbers in the film

Listeners’ Most Successful Numbers in the Movie (By Discord Vote:)

1. “What Is This Feeling” (9 votes)
2. “Popular” (7 votes)
3. “Dancing Through Life” (6 votes)
4. “No One Mourns the Wicked” (5 votes)
5. “The Wizard and I" / "Defying Gravity” (3 votes each)
6. “I’m Not That Girl” / “Something Bad” / “One Short Day” (1 vote each)

Matt: “I have no notes on [‘What Is This Feeling’]. Not a single note. I think it’s done perfectly.” [108:48]
Joel: “Down to the flex foot and that little ronde jambe... 10 out of 10.”

Additional Takeaways & Reflections

On Orchestration and New Choices

• The film’s “Hollywood lush” orchestrations are different but valid. Matt misses a few stage show quirks (e.g., specific drum transitions), but embraces the movie’s epic sweep and Easter egg-laden score.

On Visual World-Building

• “Wicked” nails the fantasy world aesthetic of Oz, with CGI-enhanced practical sets and thoughtful cinematic flourishes (the infamous tulip field, Emerald City grandeur).
• Costume, set design, and proscenium flourishes are all praised as “breathtaking.”

On Nostalgia and Newness

• The adaptation expertly balances appeals to diehard fans and new audiences, giving both the nostalgia of beloved moments and the thrill of new discoveries.

On the Movie’s Legacy & Oscar Chances

• It lands in a sweet spot between “Chicago”-level critical darling and “Barbie”-tier box office: “Musicals always have a prestige factor to them, so we’ll see.”
• Both major stars (Ariana, Cynthia) expect Best Actress consideration.

Final Thoughts

Joel:

“This show changed what is expected of you as a performer. Putting in this [film] version with a healthier technique… there is absolutely merit and beauty in having that sort of restraint… A very tall order, but I think [Ariana] did a brilliant job…”

Matt:

“If you’re going to be a movie musical—be a movie musical. Don’t be embarrassed, don’t try to ‘fix’ the material. Make it fit the new way to tell the story, but respect what works, and make it cinematic… That’s why this works.”

Closing

Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande close out the show musically, as requested by Joel and Matt, underlining this episode’s thesis: “10 out of 10. That’s what you always wanted.”

For Newcomers & Superfans Alike:

If you want exhaustive analysis, comedic drag, musical nerd debates, and an unfiltered, deeply affectionate take on both the WICKED film and musical theatre culture, this episode is a must-listen (and relisten).