The Broadway Season: 2024-2025 w/ Robbie Rozelle!

Summary

Broadway Breakdown Podcast

Episode: The Broadway Season: 2024-2025 w/ Robbie Rozelle!
Host: Matt Koplik | Guest: Robbie Rozelle
Release Date: September 12, 2024

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Overview

In this episode, host Matt Koplik and Broadway insider Robbie Rozelle reunite for a sprawling, unfiltered, and hilarious discussion about the upcoming 2024-2025 Broadway season. With their trademark blend of deep-dive analysis, industry gossip, biting wit, and passionate tangents, they make sense of the packed slate of musicals, plays, and revivals, share rumors and predictions, and dissect the state of the industry. Key segments include Tony prediction debates, hot takes on upcoming productions and casting, and observations on trends and Broadway culture.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

Podcast Banter, Introductions, and Tone Setting

• Matt introduces himself with his typically “affected” style, prompting friendly mocking and meta-commentary from Robbie.
• Early riff: Matt toys with an over-the-top “Broadway interviewer” character named “Domothy Cavanu,” parodying earnest-yet-misinformed hosts, which recurs as a running gag.

  "Am I unhinged or is Domothy Gavin do unhinged?" – Matt (03:21)

Laying Out the Season

• The hosts decide to break down the 2024-25 season by discussing what’s opened, what’s coming, and what’s rumored.
• The conversation is guided in part by questions and requests from Matt's Broadway Breakdown Discord community.

Key Timestamp: [04:47]

"There's definitely rumored casting that we can talk about... a lot of rumor and conjecture today." – Robbie

Notable Early-Season Productions (06:12 to ~15:00)

• Job
  • Both saw on Broadway, both enjoyed but felt it was slightly underwhelming after buzz.
  • Discuss limitations of larger theaters swallowing up smaller, intimate plays.
• Home
  • Mixed feeling; Matt questions whether it was chosen by Roundabout to fulfill diversity quota rather than artistic vision.
  • Little advertising, felt rushed, and quickly forgotten.
• Oh, Mary!
  • Matt saw it; likened to a well-structured comic play with room for star casting after Cole Escola.
• Once Upon a Mattress
  • Sutton Foster and Michael Urie’s performances praised.
  • Direction and set design described as confusing (“are we in New York?”).
  • Some newly transferred cast felt under-rehearsed and under-directed.
• The Roommate
  • Patty LuPone considered vocally and comedically strong; Mia Farrow has the showier role. General positive word-of-mouth.

Tony Eligibility & Predictions

(~16:10 to 24:30)

• Matt and Robbie build a running list of leading actress contenders for the Tonys, including Sutton Foster, Nicole Scherzinger (“Sunset Boulevard”), Audra McDonald (“Gypsy”), Katie Braben (“Tammy Faye”), Idina Menzel (“Redwood”), Jasmine Rogers (“Boop”), and others.
• Discussion of how the field is crowded and volatile, and how past London success (Oliviers) does not directly translate to Tonys.
• Cautions on the hazards of early Tony predictions:

  "So much of it is just conjecture...I'm 99.99% sure that Home will be completely forgotten." – Matt (14:17)

• Extended speculation on rumored Gypsy casting and changing contracts in current Broadway productions.

Trends and Industry Hot Takes

• Many theatres are choosing to schedule more star-led vehicles and celebrity debuts than in past seasons.
• Many productions (musicals, revivals, new plays) are in venues that may be too big or too small for their scale.
• Shows increasingly depend on Discord, social media, and fan rumor mills for both buzz and misinformation (“QAnon conspiracy theory” about Gypsy rewriting).
• Frustration at Broadway World forums, audience misunderstanding of finances, and gross misreadings of industry news.

  "So many people forget that it's show business and not show party. It is shocking to me." – Robbie (19:45)

Deep Dives on New and Upcoming Shows

Musicals

• Death Becomes Her
  • High audience expectations ("the film screams to be musicalized"), show being kept under wraps, and positive out-of-town buzz for Megan Hilty and Jennifer Simard.
• Boop
  • Star-is-born potential for Jasmine Rogers.
• Floyd Collins
  • Questions about venue size and casting. Unsure if producers know what they’re seeking—must be a Tony nominee.
• Last Five Years
  • Hudson Theatre model praised: star-driven limited runs that can swap in/out leads.
  • Challenges of recasting high-profile two-person shows.
• Redwood, Maybe Happy Ending, Swept Away, Old Friends
  • Redwood’s out-of-town buzz is mixed but Idina Menzel’s star power will sell tickets.
  • Old Friends Sondheim tribute described as over-large, somewhat generic, and not up to past standards for Sondheim revues.

Plays and Revivals

• Yellowface (David Henry Hwang)
  • Questions if it should be original or revival at the Tonys—probably revival.
• Hills of California
  • Matt saw it in London, praises Laura Donnelly’s performance, notes the marketing now spoils a key twist.
  • High expectations as the “prestige play.”
• Our Town
  • Kenny Leon’s strengths and weaknesses as a director discussed. Excitement for Zoe Deutch and Katie Holmes casting, mixed speculation on the production’s tone and impact.

  "I think [Kenny Leon] is a really good caster... I don't feel like he's the most hands-on director." – Matt (49:46)

• Sunset Boulevard
  • Robbie wildly enthusiastic about the Nicole Scherzinger production:

  "I walked in with a raised eyebrow and I left there with a heart on. It was so good." (50:58)

• Gypsy
  • Eager anticipation for the Audra McDonald/George C. Wolfe production, could be a “huge payoff or huge loss.”
• Othello, Romeo & Juliet
  • Denzel Washington and Jake Gyllenhaal pairing; expectations for a hot ticket, skepticism if tickets will be available.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Discord/Broadway World Fandom:

"The Broadway world boards are just nothing but QAnon." – Matt (19:20)

On directors having multiple major projects:

"One of the trends I want to mention is directors having multiple shows: Stroman has Left on 10th and Smash... Kenny Leon has Home, Our Town, and Othello..." – Matt (75:37)

On the Broadway business model:

"They announced Sweeney Todd was closing and everyone on Instagram lost their shit…like, 'Why can't we have nice things?' I'm like, it was always planning on closing..." – Matt (19:51)

On the endurance of certain plays:

"Here is what we got so far...Sutton Foster in Once Upon a Mattress. Nicole Scherzinger in Sunset Boulevard. Audra Ann in Gypsy..." (16:29)

On alternate casting trends:

"I love this new trend of really specializing the casting of the alternate and making it as much of an event." – Matt (109:20)

Key Timestamps

• 03:40 – Matt introduces the structure for the episode
• 06:12 – Season start: reviews of Job, Home, Oh Mary
• 09:56 – Once Upon a Mattress discussion
• 12:22 – The Roommate, star-casting, and Tony fallout
• 14:08 – Tony predictions, lead actresses
• 16:26 – Explosive list of leading lady contenders
• 22:26 – Death Becomes Her out-of-town buzz
• 30:24 – Hills of California London insights
• 39:08 – Revival category shakeout (Our Town, Othello, Yellowface)
• 49:36 – Detailed musings on Our Town and Kenny Leon
• 50:53 – Scherzinger/Sunset Blvd rave
• 57:55 – Gypsy anticipation and casting
• 64:22 – Wonderful World; state of commercial vs. non-profit venues
• 66:46 – Next to Normal Broadway rumor check
• 75:37 – Directors with multiple shows trend
• 80:01 – Broadway star-vehicle “Hudson Model”
• 93:18 – Tips on the most promising straight plays this season
• 113:15 – Most anticipated productions (Gypsy, Death Becomes Her)
• 116:07 – If/Then's marketing misfire, Broadway marketing jokes
• 120:48 – Closing: Discord, reviews, and final diva tribute request

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Trends & Observations

• Director Overload: Many top directors (e.g., Kenny Leon, Tina Landau, Susan Stroman) are taking on multiple Broadway projects per season, raising questions of burnout, artistic consistency, and depth.
• Overstuffed Actress Field: Lead actress categories for both plays and musicals are particularly competitive, with many big names and high expectations (McDonald, Scherzinger, Menzel, Foster, Audra, etc.).
• Celebrity Vehicles: A uniquely star-heavy season, with “network effect” (Robert Downey Jr., George Clooney, Denzel Washington, Jake Gyllenhaal, Kit Connor, Audra McDonald, etc.) driving ticket sales and buzz.
• Rumor Mill & Social Media: Gossip and fan speculation drive much of the discourse. Both hosts decry Broadway forum nonsense and false viral assumptions about grosses and casting.
• Broadway Model Evolution: The “Hudson Model” of filling theaters with known properties and stars, especially in limited or recasting-friendly runs, defines much of Broadway’s current commercial logic.

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Final Takeaways

Most Anticipated Shows:

• For Matt: Othello, Dorian Gray (if confirmed), Gypsy, Death Becomes Her
• For Robbie: Gypsy, Floyd Collins, Our Town

What to Watch:

• Will Gypsy’s new production with Audra McDonald be a game-changer or risk overhyped/disappointing?
• Can star-vehicles like Clooney’s Good Night and Good Luck and Scherzinger’s Sunset Boulevard live up to hype?
• Will the crowded lead actress fields in both musical and play categories yield big surprises or upsets?

Industry Reality Check:

• There is a fundamental tension this season between artistic ambition, a need for commercial draw, and the chaotic unpredictabilities of casting, producing, and critical reception.
• Both hosts repeat: “It’s show business, not show party.”

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Notable & Quotable

“There are so many variables right now with all these revivals. Because, like, also Our Town...I have no idea what that's going to be.”
— Matt (45:27)

"...We need a Saltburn musical with the song called Lucky for You I’m a Vampire."
— Matt (57:31)

“I love this new trend of really specializing the casting of the alternate and making it as much of an event as...”
— Matt (109:20)

“Manhattan Theater Club — Roundabout for Jews!”
— Robbie (95:52)

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Episode Mood and Recommendation

Raucous, hilarious, and deeply informed, this episode is a must-listen for theater geeks and casual fans alike—especially those eager for industry gossip, candid opinions, and far-reaching speculation. The hosts’ camaraderie, deep Broadway knowledge, and willingness to "name names" combine for an episode filled with both insight and delightful irreverence.

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Next Up:
Stay tuned for the Broadway Grosses episode, where Matt and guests will demystify financial reports and unpack what “success” really means on Broadway.

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End with a tribute: “Take it away, Marin.” [Kiss Me Kate closeout.]

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Transcript

[A]

Thank you very much.

[B]

That's all. But we have a great dramatic finish.

[A]

Oh, I'm sure you do, but Mr. Granstone, hit it.

[B]

Broadway, Broadway.

[A]

We've missed it. So we're leaving soon and taking June to star her in a show. Bright lights, white light with a metro max the train is made so while we wait, we're gonn. Hello, all you theater lovers both out and proud and on the DL. And welcome back to Broadway Breakdown, a podcast discussing the history legacy of American theater's most exclusive address, Broadway. I am your host, Matt Koplik, the least famous and most opinionated of all the Broadway podcast hosts. And with me is friend of the pod, friend of me, Robbie Roselle.

[B]

I have questions. When did this become the most affected opening of all time?

[A]

The most affected, like, with the voice and everything.

[B]

Has always been there, which.

[A]

Weird for you, I know.

[B]

But beyond that, like, it's become more stretched out, I think.

[A]

It depends. It depends.

[B]

It's a lot like Betty Buckley doing Meadowlark.

[A]

It's. Well, so it's two things. One is when I do the intro with someone who's been on the podcast before, I get a little self conscious and I start doing weird things there because I'm like, Robbie's heard it four times in person, let alone like whenever.

[B]

He listens to the longtime listener.

[A]

Exactly. But when it's usually a new guest, I just go for it.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But also, I've been kind of toying with this character I want to try out where it's. It's this Broadway interviewer that is so self serious and yet their questions are insane. His name is Tomothy Cavanu.

[B]

Bye.

[A]

Bye.

[B]

Thanks so much for having me. Have a great day.

[A]

But he also, like, he gets similar. Like Valerie Cherish, you know, gets like titles and names mixed up all the time. Sure.

[B]

Like a Jiminy Glick.

[A]

Yes, exactly. So I pretend you're like, for example, say you're Andrew Reynolds. Right. And I'm.

[B]

And why wouldn't I be licking my lips right now?

[A]

Here you go. Andrew Randalls. You were so effective in that. In that musical you did where you. I don't have my notes here right now, but you had AIDS in it. It was very effective. What was it called again? No, no, no, not that one. Hairspray. When I saw you in. You were in Hairspray, and you were very effective as the character with the big hair who clearly had aids.

[B]

You're not well.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

You're not well.

[A]

That's Domothy Cavanu and his show is called Broadway beyond the tip and buy the nickel.

[B]

You know what I mean by the nickel.

[A]

And asks another question like Robbie Rizzel, you are a cabaret. Some white say artiste, but you know, let's not be controversial here. You have said that Lin man, Miranda is a. Is an idol of yours. If you met him, which hand would you use to slap him across the face?

[B]

Probably the right one.

[A]

Right hand is because you're left handed.

[B]

No, I'm right handed, so it'd be stronger.

[A]

Ah, so you're saying that you are both a physical and concern and social conservative. That is what you're saying. Yes, yes, yes.

[B]

You're unhinged. Why am I?

[A]

Am I unhinged or is Domothy Gavin do unhinged? Anyway. Anyway, Ravi, what are we doing today?

[B]

Monologuing into a microphone for two hours about the 2024, 2025 season. Yeesh. Yeesh.

[A]

Figured we would talk about it and sort of go through what we got. What's happened so far, what's coming up, and then what's rumored to come in. Sure. I asked the Broadway Breakdown, Discord channel and those of you who have yet.

[B]

To Jo, I just joined.

[A]

You did just join. It's a fun time. I'm currently adding more channels because I thought I had enough with like six or seven. Well, just in terms of people want, like sub groups within the group so that way, like you don't have to scroll through a million text. I know. Well, I asked someone, I was like, can you help me figure out how to make a subgroup within the group? Because, like, sure. It was what it was. It was. I think it was about like the Gypsy casting and someone wanted to do like a channel within the podcast group so you could talk about that.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And someone also wanted a way to get DMs with each other, so I have to figure out how to do that. It's all technology and I don't understand it and neither does Dominic Gavinu, but. No, but I did ask them on the Discord things that they wanted us to discuss. And of course everyone does want to discuss Gypsy. Not much to talk about right now. We're recording this on Sunday, September 8th, and maybe by the time this comes out on Thursday, casting will come out.

[B]

There's definitely rumored casting that we can talk about.

[A]

Oh, for sure.

[B]

There's a lot of rumor and conjecture today is what I'm saying.

[A]

Yeah. We cannot confirm nor deny, but you and I have both heard the same Herbie. Yes, we both heard the same Louise. And then you informed me of a June that had passed through your ears. And then I went through another channel to confirm.

[B]

I've heard two different Junes, so I'm not sure.

[A]

Yes, Both of whom are currently on Broadway right now.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Possibly across the street from each other.

[B]

Both of whom are leaving their shows in September.

[A]

Wait, really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Izzy's leaving. Water.

[B]

Yeah. When? I believe when Grant leaves.

[A]

Yeah, Grant already left.

[B]

Grant is gone.

[A]

Yeah. So maybe Izzy might be leaving then.

[B]

In a month and hasn't unclear what's with these contracts. Orfeh is on a three week contract.

[A]

Listen, it's hard out here for a pimp, you know what I mean?

[B]

So I want to say right off the top, I don't know anything about the plays this season. We're going to have fun.

[A]

I know very little about the plays. We're definitely going to have fun. I looked into some of the plot summer them, but we'll. Yes, we'll make do.

[B]

How do you want to do this?

[A]

I have no idea.

[B]

I just assumed you were going to throw all the names in. Sally Bowell. But she's not here.

[A]

No, Sally Bowell is in my room. And who cares about her right now? This is not a.

[B]

What a bitch.

[A]

Yeah. This is much more organized. Let's do. Do you want to do in chronological order of like what's opening when or do we want to.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

So already this season we had the first play, which was Job, which did you see?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Did you see it off Broadway or on the Broadway?

[B]

I saw it on the Broadway.

[A]

Got it. So did I. I had heard so many things about it. I enjoyed my time. I think I was a little underwhelmed, but not so much that I was upset so much as I was like, this wasn't the.

[B]

Did you walk into a blind.

[A]

I did. I. All I had heard was the buzz.

[B]

I walked into it like fully blind. I just knew it was like two actors from Succession and Therapy because you can't really. You can't talk about the play without giving away the play except to say it's a therapy appointment gone awry.

[A]

Well, that's how I always felt with Next Normal. That bugged me was like, we have to talk about the twist because it's in the first 20 minutes and that ends up being what the play's about.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But people didn't want you to spoil what Aaron Tveit was. It was like, go fuck yourself.

[B]

Please. Aaron Tveit has spoiled who he is for years.

[A]

Mm. Spoiler alert. Aaron Tveit is translucent.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

He's barely there.

[B]

He's basically just that vampire from Twilight at this point.

[A]

He is.

[B]

He shines like a diamond.

[A]

Curly. And Moulin Rouge.

[B]

There it is.

[A]

So actual, technically speaking, our first play of the season was Home, which I.

[B]

Did not see, actually.

[A]

No, it was Home. Oh, Mary. And then Job. I'm so.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yeah. So I saw Home at Roundabout. Yeah. Revival of Came and Went.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It was super. Came and Went. I hate to say this, but I do know that Roundabout's trying to fulfill a diversity quota with the works that they perform now because they have a history of being mostly white authors and white directors and white casts.

[B]

I hate calling it a quota. I think that they're. They are trying to do better.

[A]

It. I would normally say that, except Home honestly felt like a quota.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because it was. It came and went. There was absolutely no advertising for it. It felt. Even Kenny Leon, it felt like he just sort of rushed through it so he could get to Our Town. And then eventually Othello.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Which is a shame because I watched it and I was like, I feel like there was something here. You know, it must have been a very important play in its time from the late 70s, early 80s.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But it was in the American Airlines Theater, which is a large theater, but a small theater. But it felt large with that play.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The whole thing just kind of felt lost.

[B]

I feel like plays feel. I feel like it's too big to be a playhouse. The Airlines.

[A]

Yeah. It depends on what they do.

[B]

I've seen so many plays just get swallowed up by like the expanse.

[A]

Yeah. I feel like something like Noises Off. I felt worked in that.

[B]

I loved it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But you know, something like the Home.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

When not.

[B]

And same with like a four person place. Something like that.

[A]

And this is in the same way that I felt Job was a little swallowed by the haze. And the Haze is a small theater. It's like 500 seats.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I know that off Broadway, the two locations they were at, its job was very big on the fact that it was such an intimate production.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

So I felt like maybe something got lost in translation for me, but I did enjoy it. Oh, Mary was of course, in between those. Oh Mary. No one's ever heard of.

[B]

Not no one.

[A]

No one's seen it. No one's talking about it moving right the fuck along.

[B]

Have you seen it on Broadway?

[A]

I did.

[B]

I haven't seen it since it transferred.

[A]

It does not get swallowed up in the Lyceum. I'll say that for everything about it that has Gotten improved by being bigger, faster, and broader. There are a couple of things that have diluted it a little bit, in my opinion.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But that's just a me thing. Like, there were certain moments off Broadway that I enjoyed that they milked a bit longer, that they're like, nope, no time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For example, Mary getting off the desk.

[B]

Sure, yeah.

[A]

Things like that. But overall, it's still a. It's a marvelous time.

[B]

It's wonderful.

[A]

And then we have Once Upon a Mattress, which is. Yeah. You saw. Did you see it? Encores as well?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay. Well, you mean you still kind of did.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I had a good time. Like, I laughed. I could watch Sutton Foster do that mattress ballet.

[A]

Yeah. The highlight for me was Michael Urie and Sutton Foster's mattress pantomime.

[B]

Can we talk about Michael Urie walking up steps?

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

That was so funny. But I feel like Brooks is, like, in the show.

[A]

Brooks is very wasted.

[B]

Anna Gasteyer is great, but she's.

[A]

Well, she's given no direction, so she. I mean, I don't. You. I think you saw it a little more recently than I did when I saw they were just about to open. So she'd only really kind of been doing this show in full for, like, a week and a half at that point.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And she was still trying to figure it out, so she didn't get a lot of laughs the night I saw it.

[B]

She looks like Meryl in that wig.

[A]

She sure do. My only issue with Michael Urie walking up the steps, and I talked about this as well, is that the big payoff in Act 2 is done upstage to the left.

[B]

Left.

[A]

So it's actually cut off to, like, a third of the audience. And that's just. That's not a Michael thing. That's a directing thing. That's a Lear. That's a big. No, no.

[B]

Yeah. But mostly I just. I'm very confused by that set.

[A]

I'm also confused by that set, the banners. Why is there a hot dog stand?

[B]

Are we in New York, like, old New York?

[A]

I have no idea.

[B]

Why is there a taxi?

[A]

Well, I mean, half of we find out that members of the court are from Bushwick or whatever it is.

[B]

Right. Which is like the new Green Point. That's like the new joke. Right. Once Upon a One More Time had that same kind of joke.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And to what end? It's not like a great. That's not a great rewrite. I think that combining the. The Minstrel and the Jester worked for me. I didn't Mind that I didn't love Daniel in it.

[A]

Daniel, for me, felt like a miscast.

[B]

He just felt sort of stiff. But again, I don't know how much rehearsal they got in the transfer.

[A]

Thumbelina's worth of rehearsal.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Yeah. I think there's a reason why the actors who did it at encores are popping more than those who are brand new. Not a lot of rehearsal, not a lot of direction.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And there's just. It's up to them to figure it out. And everyone has a moment that lands. But none of the new members have fully congealed performances, in my humble opinion. Maybe things have congealed since I saw it a month ago, but that's. I mean, that's also what time is for. But so. And then we have the roommate, which is in previews right now, which your husband saw. Glam.

[B]

He did. And he loved it. I have not seen it yet. Neither have I. I just did Patty's album. And so I have a very big bias of. Yay, Patti LuPone, who is so wonderful and kind to me.

[A]

Oh, you're the one.

[B]

Yeah. He's. You know what? I walk in, I do my job, I make a joke, and I leave. And she likes that.

[A]

Oh, I think she would prefer it if everyone was like that 100.

[B]

That is her M.O. you can fool around as long as you're doing the work. And so she's just been just so wonderful. However, he said. And his favorite film of all time is Rosemary's Baby. So Mia Farrow. And seeing the two of them together and how they are so wildly different on stage and the sparks that fly from that is really great. He loved it.

[A]

The word I've gotten from everyone I know who's seen it, those who loved it and those who were like, it's fine.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

They've all been like, it's Mia's show.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

That she. She kind of has the better role in. Which is odd because from what it sounds like is that Patty is more the wacky character and Mia's the straight man.

[B]

Patty's that 50 something. Mm, 50 something. 50 something vegan lesbian.

[A]

Why not?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But like, I think it's. The idea is that Mia's character has an actual arc even and Patty has more of the like. But I'm.

[B]

She is sort of like the cyclone that whirls through.

[A]

Yeah. That.

[B]

In the way that Patti LuPone is.

[A]

Yeesh. I don't. Again, don't know much about it. Just been hearing a lot of that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I can't wait I'm trying to get in to see it. We'll see what happens. But of those so far, because also the listeners want to talk about like Tony predictability, which is so hard to do at this stage.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

First week of September. And so, come on listeners. So much of it is just conjecture. I will say up front, I'm 99.99% sure that home will be completely forgotten.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Even those who kind of like it.

[B]

I forgot that it even happened. Exactly. Sure.

[A]

I think if Job comes in anywhere, it will be with the two actors. Just because acting in plays this season, it's a little wonky in terms of is it an overcrowded field or is it actually going to be a weak field?

[B]

I don't know. It's. It's a star studded season. It is so question mark.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it will be long gone.

[A]

Yes, that is also true. And the Tonys. The Tonys aren't total star fuckers, but they're not. Not at the same.

[B]

Right.

[A]

They don't have that much pride that they will totally ignore Robert Downey Jr. And George Clooney. Like, right, McNeil and good night and Good Luck have to be absolutely atrocious for them to do it.

[B]

And didn't he win the Oscar for Good Night and Good Luck?

[A]

No, he. George was nominated. He was nominated for directing. Nominated for directing and writing it.

[B]

Uh huh. So like there's. There's a lineage.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So did he also adapt it?

[A]

I think he's adapting this version as well as well starring in it.

[B]

Yeah, he's just like, I'm just gonna keep doing good. Welcome to my hello Dolly. Well, this Good Night and Good Luck.

[A]

I think with George, it's good luck. I think with George Clooney, honestly, if you look at his movie career as a director, it's not great. He Good Night and Good Luck is like his biggest Oscar, baby. It's the one that he got nominated for. And all this critical acclaim and pretty much everything since then has not been the case. Sure, he did that movie about the guys in the painting, whatever it's called, but nobody liked it. And then he just did the Boys in the Boat, which everyone was like, it was fun, you know, which was considered a huge win for him at the time because he had so many movies that he was like, God damn it, garbage. But yeah. So I think he's sort of coming back to 9 o' clock and going, that was one that everybody liked. Let me do it again in a different medium.

[B]

So you're asking about Tony predictions like, Sutton gets nominated. There's not a world where she doesn't.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

You don't think.

[A]

Well, it's not that I don't think. It's that I'm not sold. Because again, talk about long gone. And think about how much is coming in, which I think we. So, I mean, I was gonna do chronological, but now. This is the true nature of the podcast.

[B]

We're tangenting.

[A]

Yes. Here is what we got so far in terms of eligibility for leading actress in a musical. Sutton Foster in Once Upon a Mattress. Exactly. Nicole Scherzinger in Sunse Boulevard. Audra McDonald.

[B]

Audra Ann in Gypsy. Yeah.

[A]

What's her Face? Katie Brabin for Tammy Faye. Who won the Olivier.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So that's. That's already four.

[B]

Although the Oliviers mean nothing over here.

[A]

They don't but like it give.

[B]

I have never seen one transfer.

[A]

You never seen what?

[B]

I've never seen somebody win the Olivier and then come here and win the Tony.

[A]

Happens with plays more often than does musicals.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. But I've never seen a Translate in.

[A]

A musical, but it does. And Nicole also in the Olivier. But that just. I think what that means is they have a good likelihood of getting nominated, not necessarily winning. We have Jasmine Rogers for Boop.

[B]

We have Both ladies for Death becomes Her.

[A]

Both Ladies for Death Becomes Her. We have Idina Menzel for Redwood. We have. What else do we have? We have the female lead of maybe Happy ending. What's her name?

[B]

Helen J. Shen.

[A]

Helen J. Shen. Yes. And I hear that shows are delightful. Adrienne Warren for last five years. We have whoever's playing Mabel and Pirates Penzance.

[B]

Oh, that's Lily Cooper.

[A]

Oh, it's gonna be Lily Cooper.

[B]

Yeah. You're a big fan.

[A]

Sure. She. Wait, she's playing Maple? Well, they haven't announced that yet.

[B]

Yeah, she did the concert.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

With. It's Ramin Karamo.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And David Leonard will be sat.

[A]

Sure. Do we know who the Frederick's gonna be? You look. Yeah. Look that up. Lily Cooper's gonna be Mabel. Okay. I don't. I don't. I don't personally see that, but Pop off says, let's see what happens with that. Then, of course, we have the Smash.

[B]

Oh, right. Yeah. Is that Robin Herder?

[A]

Unclear. Based on what I've been told of the workshop, Robin's much more of a major supporting character than the lead lead. But there is. There is a female lead of Smash. Whoever plays that stage manager role.

[B]

Right. Okay.

[A]

And then on top of that, well, there's no female lead of Dead Outlaw, but. And I don't know if there's a female lead in Buena Vista Social Club. Those two are heavily rumored to come in.

[B]

Colton. Ryan.

[A]

Colton Ryan's gonna be Frederick. No way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. That'll be fun.

[B]

Lily Cooper was Ruth. Excuse me? And Samantha Williams was Mabel.

[A]

Oh, that's much better. Yeah, I like that a lot more. I don't know if Lily can be wacky for Ruth, but, you know, she's better for Ruth than she is for Mabel.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And Samantha Williams is Mabel. That'll be fun.

[B]

Love Samantha Williams.

[A]

I wonder if they're gonna do the Linda Ronstadt version of the score. Or. No. I guess. No, they're doing like a whole new.

[B]

Yeah, because it's set in New Orleans.

[A]

Oh, fascinating. Yeah, that's the New Orleans vibe that got rewritten. Not Gypsy.

[B]

Right?

[A]

You saw that stupid.

[B]

I sure did.

[A]

QAnon conspiracy theory.

[B]

I can't.

[A]

They were rewriting the book.

[B]

And the Broadway world boards are just nothing but QAnon.

[A]

Yeah. It truly.

[B]

Yeah, truly.

[A]

Well, then also people like, just making up how tax write offs work for Broadway and national tours. It's honestly, that's why we're gonna do the Broadway grosses episode soon.

[B]

Just.

[A]

Just because when people read the grosses and then like, make assumptions about how a show is doing.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

It's like, this is why we need more of this.

[B]

So many people forget that it's show business and not show party. It is shocking to me.

[A]

Or like when they announced that Sweeney Todd was closing and everyone on Instagram lost their shit and like, why can't we have nice things? I'm like, it was always planning on.

[B]

Closing because it was modeled out to make their money by this point. And otherwise it happened into the woods.

[A]

Yep. In fact, actually, Sweeney probably ended up making more money than it set out.

[B]

To do because of that extension with those stars.

[A]

Exactly. Exactly. But, Robbie, in case you haven't noticed, people can be dumb.

[B]

Yeah. They're just. I think it's probably because theater people. We live in the stars. We are not. Our feet are not firmly on the ground.

[A]

Yeah. And I don't like how many theater.

[B]

People can balance a checkbook. Do you know what I'm saying?

[A]

Like, sure.

[B]

First of all, how many of them have a checkbook?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But like, with. It's just like, we are doing plays in our barn, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And so like reading grosses. It's so important for like, how a show like Beetlejuice. Everybody was on Beetlejuice. Blah, blah, blah. Can't believe Music man is kicking out Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice was hemorrhaging money. Lost so much money and. But people don't put that together.

[A]

Well, Beetlejuice was hemorrhaging money for the first half of its Broadway run, which is what got Music man in there.

[B]

The stop clause.

[A]

Yes, exactly. What they didn't expect was Beetlejuice turned it around.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But obviously, like, there's Covid happened, which changed a lot of things. But if Beetlejuice ended up, let's say Covid didn't happen and Beetlejuice just closed up shop and didn't move to another theater, that was because the producers looked at their business model, looked at future ticket sales and said, it's not going to be worth the money invested.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

But maybe that would have happened. It's all without Covid. Sorry. With COVID we cannot say. But also, may I say this, you may, theater people, especially of the modern day set, a lot of the work that has been put out isn't great enough for everyone to be like, but my head is in the clouds. Like, you kind of got your feet on the ground as well. You don't get to say that you're an airheaded dumb dumb when you're putting out great work every five years. You know what I mean? It's like when my mom does something stupid and I'm like, your boobs aren't big enough for you to be this dumb. You either have to get bigger boobs or you got to get smarter.

[B]

Oh, good for your mom.

[A]

Yeah, she chose to get smarter.

[B]

Oh, good. Great. Honestly, it took.

[A]

Yeah. And speaking of knockers, is this where.

[B]

We take a break?

[A]

In a minute. Let's actually, I want to. What have you heard about death becomes her?

[B]

Oh, I know a lot of people who saw it out of town and loved it. Said that the second act is weaker than the first act, that both of them are excellent. Megan Hilty is obviously, because the show your role, like, just mopping up.

[A]

Madeline Ashton is.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I can't wait. That is a film that screams to be musicalized. So I can't wait.

[A]

I mean, the movie is just so big.

[B]

It's very telling that they haven't released any false songs from it anywhere.

[A]

Yeah. I think they're trying to keep it as under wraps as possible to keep the suspense going.

[B]

Sure. Which is like, we've seen scenes.

[A]

Yeah. Well, they showed one little bit of a song.

[B]

Yeah. That. That Michelle Williams song.

[A]

No. And. And also Megan and Jennifer. Yeah. When they're, like, vying for Christopher Sieber's affection and. And Megan is wearing the leopard print on the.

[B]

On the leopard couch.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It is so funny. But that is dialogue. At first it is that, but then.

[A]

It goes into, like, Steve kind of music. But I. I don't know. I'm. I'm very interested. I've said it before. I know Julian Madison and Noel Carey a little bit. They went to school with me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they are very, very funny. Very smart people. Very talented people. And very odd. Like, they are the right mentalities for Death becomes her. Because Julia is a weirdo. And that's who you want to write the score for this kind of show. So I am interested in it. I'm hoping that they've done the work. Same thing with Boop. Everything I heard and was told about Boop from Chicago is like, the bones are there. If they cut what needs to be cut, this thing is gonna take off.

[B]

Great.

[A]

So. Yeah. You hope, you dream, you pray.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Right? I mean, I'm gonna call it. I'm gonna say. I will say that Jasmine Rogers will be nominated for Boob. I think it's from everything I've been told, it's a star is born performance.

[B]

Yeah. And great.

[A]

And Great. And she'll be. The show will be running by that point. Same thing with. Hopefully. Same thing with Audra and Gypsy and Nicole with Sunset. Yeah. And I don't know. I. I am not totally sold that Sutton will be nominated.

[B]

It could also be one of those years where there's, like, seven people nominated.

[A]

That's also true.

[B]

So you, like, all rules are out the window. What I mean.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There are no norms.

[A]

The moment we got. Do we get. Did we get seven or. No. We got seven supporting actress and musical nominations and eight scenic design for musical nominations. I don't know how that happened.

[B]

Unclear.

[A]

Especially with the eight that it was. I was like, who voted for Lempa and Back to the Future over Great Gatsby.

[B]

Like, the only. Like, the set is very good in Great Gatsby. Yeah.

[A]

Say what you will about the show and Lord Novice, I said everything. I do think that show is very well designed.

[B]

Yeah. It's beautiful to look at.

[A]

Yeah. I also would have given them a lighting.

[B]

I also miss a set. So. It was nice to see one.

[A]

It was nice to see one. There are a lot more projections in it than people realize. But it's a very. Well. It's a smartly done projection.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which I appreciate.

[B]

It's put together nicely.

[A]

Very well put together. I wish I could say the same about the script, but Here we are. McNeil just started previews. Robert Downey Jr. Robert Downey Jr. At the Beaumont. And apparently it's, like, kind of meta and like. And. And do you know that movie Simone with Al Pacino?

[B]

No.

[A]

He's a director who gets fed up with actors and is given.

[B]

Me. I know.

[A]

He's given an AI Program to create, like, the perfect actress.

[B]

Oh, yes, of course. Yes.

[A]

And Simone stands for simulation one. So from what I understand, McNeil is a little bit like that, where Robert Downey Jr. Is this writer who's obsessed with AI and then, like, kind of gets absorbed in it possibly. It sounds very tech heavy. It sounds very odd, which is why I don't understand why Bart Cher is directing it, other than just, like, Lincoln center is like, what do you want to do?

[B]

Yeah. Although, like, he does very fascinating plays at the Beaumont, Oslo and others.

[A]

You sound like Eric Cartman in South park when he becomes ginger and he's like, he can't think of any other gingers other than Ron Howard who've gone on to do great things in history. So when he's making his speech, he goes, we are the. We are proud people, descendants of great Americans like Ron Howard and others.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Bar Chair has done so many wonderful plays at the Beaumont, like Oslo and others.

[B]

Others.

[A]

I think. I think this is only his second straight play at the Beaumont because he's. No, I think so because most of his other plays have been in other houses, like To Kill a Mockingbird and Awaken Sing and Golden Boy. I think most of. I think Beaumont has been mostly musicals for him.

[B]

I'm just looking that up to refute it.

[A]

If that's wrong, it's probably wrong. I also don't really care all that much.

[B]

That's true. Pictures from.

[A]

I forgot about Pictures from Home, which was last year. My God.

[B]

Oh, yeah. That was at 54.

[A]

It sure was. Yeah. All of this straight plays he's done have been outside of the Beaumont. He's. He. Mostly it's musicals of the Beaumont, with the exception of Bridges at the Schoenfeld and Fiddler at the Broadway. And then plays. It looks like we have Awaken, Sing, Joe Turner, Golden Boy, which were all at the Belasco, Oslo at the Beaumont, Mockingbird at the Shubert. But Mockingbird was a Lincoln center co production with Rudin. Pictures from Home had nothing to do with Lincoln center. And now it's at 54. Yeah. Now MacNeil. Oh, did you know that Barley, Cher and I have the same birthday.

[B]

I did not. But good for you.

[A]

Yeah, I just found this out for. Thank you. Thanks, IBDP. I mean, granted, he's 31 years older.

[B]

Than me, but he doesn't look it.

[A]

He doesn't look it. I don't look it. Well, he looks five years older than me based on how I'm aging. But we'll see. It's. I mean, it's the same Tony nominated playwright of Disgraced and Junk. Clearly something about this got caught Robert Downey Jr. S eye. But also now that he's an Oscar winner and like, has all that Marvel money, I do feel like Robert Downey Jr. Is in like the fuck it stage of his career.

[B]

He's like, I just want to try this. Yeah. Why has he done a play before at all?

[A]

Maybe I never on Broadway. This is.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

But Maybe in the 80s he did some theater.

[B]

It's also like, he could have done a Shakespeare in the park or something. You know what I mean?

[A]

He could have.

[B]

Or la. Like, I know Annette Benning did a little night music in the 90s in LA, so.

[A]

Yeah, Annette, Annette Benning really loves to do LA Regional Theater.

[B]

Yeah. Wouldn't you?

[A]

And wouldn't you? She did Medea out there. I think she did the Seagull out there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or maybe it was. Had a gobbler like Netfenning loves to do classics out there and just make us watch it.

[B]

I saw her as Goneral here in the Park. Oh, and. And Lear. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, was that was the John Lithgow, right? Yeah, I saw that too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I've yet to see a production of King Lear that has taken me.

[B]

You know why? Because it's Lear.

[A]

Yeah. And not Debessine. I. I just don't. Yeah, maybe I just don't like that play.

[B]

Listen, I don't like the Three Penny Opera and nothing's changing that.

[A]

No, I've never really gravitated towards her.

[B]

I keep trying.

[A]

Hills of California.

[B]

Yes. Three acts.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I understand the third act has been substantially rewritten.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Good.

[A]

That's wonderful to hear. I. I've talked about on this podcast already, both in a past episode and then in the London episode with My Mummy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This was the fourth show we saw when we were in London. We went totally on a whim. It ended up being their last week of performances. We really, really liked it and we both thought that the third act definitely was the weakest of the three. It wasn't bad. It was just the first two were really tight and engaging. And the third one was like that. I'll say the third one is much more Jez Butterworth's, like, weirdness.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But, yeah, I'll be interested to see what happens. I want to see it again.

[B]

I have a friend who's one of the lead producers of it, and he told me that it's an almost completely new third act.

[A]

Phenomenal. That's great to hear. Well, I will say I wasn't gonna spoil it for people, but they are already spoiling it with the marketing outside the theater. Laura Donnelly, who some people might have seen in Ferryman a few years ago, she's in it. And, like, first of all, it's a. It is a star vehicle for her, truly, because she plays their mother in the first two acts. When we flash back to the 40s, 50s.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then in London, she was only listed as the mother. And they always are talking about the oldest sister. What's her name? Is it. That's not Ruby, is it?

[B]

No idea.

[A]

I'm gonna look up Joan. Joan is the oldest sister, and they're always talking about when they're in the 1970s, oh, Joan's gonna come. She's coming from America, blah, blah, blah. And we're waiting for her. And there's no Joan listed in the program in London. So you're like, oh, I guess Joan never shows up. And then Laura Donnelly comes as older Joan.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And you're like, oh, fuck me, that's so cool. And I was trying really hard not to spoil it for people, but they have her outside the theater as older Joan, and I was like, oh, I guess we're just. We're telling people that. Okay. But, yeah, it's. It's a really wonderful vehicle for her.

[B]

Great.

[A]

And I do. I am putting money down that she will be nominated.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I think the play will be nominated.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

The set will be nominated. The set is like nothing but floating stairs and a great turntable. It's a lot of fun.

[B]

Sam Mendes.

[A]

Sam Mendes. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's. Again, it's. I think this is more inventive staging on his end than Ferryman in terms of just like, stage pictures and all that stuff. He does a lot of cool things with it.

[B]

Layman Trilogy, like, no, Layman Trilogy was.

[A]

A little more showy.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Because that. I mean, that set was spinning constantly.

[B]

Fantastic.

[A]

Yeah. And the way they use the boxes and all that, like, really, really cool stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is. It's sort of halfway between Lehman Trilogy and Ferryman because it's a lot of literally kitchen Sink drama, but also like, weird ethereal design and staging.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I enjoyed it very much and I look forward to it coming here. And I don't think it's going to be a massive hit, but I think people will gravitate towards it, or at least I hope they do.

[B]

It'll probably be like the Prestige play.

[A]

Yeah. And then Yellowface. My question with Yellowface at Roundabout, and this is one that I'm actually glad that they did, because this one felt like there was a lot of thought and effort put into Roundabout choosing it for their season, because it is David Henry Wong. This is a Pulitzer nominated piece that he wrote in the early 2000s, based off of the controversy of the casting of Miss Saigon, as well as a play that he had written sort of in response to it that closed in previews called. What was it called? Face Value.

[B]

And has he inserted himself into this?

[A]

His, His. He has always been a character in Yellowface. It is basically a fictionalized account of. Of Face Value and Miss Saigon and all that, with like a whole bunch of other shit thrown in as well.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

So there's like. I don't know if they still have it now, but when it was done off Broadway, they literally had character names of the people who were in Face Value. So, like, someone was playing Jane Krakowski.

[B]

Why wouldn't they?

[A]

Exactly. A version of Jane Krakowski, which is truly just Jane Krakowski.

[B]

But also imagine somebody on their resume it says Jane Krakowski. Yeah.

[A]

I play Jane Krakowski in Yellow Vase, but I'm interested to see if this is considered a revival or not.

[B]

Oh. Huh. Do you know if it's been substantially rewritten?

[A]

I don't think so. And it's about 20 years old at this point. It's been done in New York, just not on Broadway, and I think it's been done across the country and even in London. I think it's.

[B]

So it's probably a revival.

[A]

That's what I'm thinking. But a lot of people are counting it as original. So we'll see. We'll see what the Tony says.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because usually when it comes to revival stuff, I have a good sixth sense about it where I. I will look at it and just be like, you just. You look like a revival to me. And my initial instinct with Yellow Face that was that it was a revival, but. Or that it was going to be considered one.

[B]

Yeah. I like the artwork of it a lot.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah. It's. I can't say that Roundabout usually nails the artwork, but I think that the poster for yellowface is great.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Who's the lead actor in it? Oh, Daniel Day Kim.

[B]

That's what I thought.

[A]

Who I saw play the King opposite Marin Mazzie, my babe. Yeah. That was the best version of King and I that I saw.

[B]

Incredible.

[A]

So good. So good. Yeah. Any. Any hopes so far from the shows you've mentioned so far?

[B]

What. What was this round?

[A]

So we've talked about Home. Oh, Mary. Job, Once Upon a Mattress, the Roommate. Any. Any Tony hopes for any.

[B]

Oh. Oh, Mary. For sure. Yeah. Best play. Probably best actor.

[A]

Yeah. It depends on where Cole decides they want to go. Because the Tonys will ask. That's what that's been their M.O. lately has been. They've gone to the performance and said, where do you want us to put you?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the performers say, which I think. I think that until there's a future of non gender categories or whatever ends up being the future. Right now this is a good sort of stepping stone of asking the performer. But we have Ricole will want to go, and I think Cole. I think Cole will take a look at the season much like Alex Newell did, and go, what category?

[B]

Put me an actor. Yeah, exactly. Where am I gonna win?

[A]

Where am I gonna win?

[B]

Although it's possible Cole doesn't win an acting and wins for writing and it's an award for both.

[A]

It could be.

[B]

You know, we'll see what ends up.

[A]

Happening because there's a very good shot that Omari will still be running in the spring. We talked about this over chips the other day.

[B]

We do.

[A]

About how long Cole will extend with. And then who could come in. Exactly. I think if. If the producers of Omari are smart enough, Cole is really eager to win that Tony. And I do know a couple of those producers. I said have Cole extend as long as they can.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And then do as many wacko star castings as possible. Put in Amy Sedaris. Put in Molly Shannon, Amy Poehler, Amy Poeh.

[B]

Anybody with a crazy glint in their eyes.

[A]

Yes. Who's willing to do it for three to six weeks at a time.

[B]

Oh, my God. What is this? Orfeh.

[A]

Orfeh. Oh, my God.

[B]

Yeah. In Chicago, Charlotte Dunois.

[A]

And anytime Amy Poehler can't go on, you bring in Charlotte. That's what she's there for.

[B]

Christian chenoweth does. Does three weeks.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Pratt Falls.

[A]

Yeah. And then Ariana DeBose comes in and. And dances for some reason. But so then you have Cole come back. Back for May and June. And then when the show wins or Cole Wins. Write out that contract and then close out the show with the massive profits that you've made. Because the show is still slated to close in November, obviously. And they have, I think, a deal where they just are allowed sort of unlimited extensions because the Shuberts are not booking the Lyceum afterwards. They're keeping it open until as long as Omari wants to be in there. Because it's not a desirable theater and.

[B]

It'S also bringing in people right now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I can't think of a play that's been on every talk show in years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Cole has been everywhere.

[A]

Yeah. Well, it's a fun thing to talk about.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And I think that what people don't mention a lot with Omari is. Yes, it's very funny. It's actually a very well structured play. Yes. The scenes are very vignette.

[B]

Sure. It's very. It lives in the Charles Bush world.

[A]

Yeah. And I. I don't think that every scene ends on a blackout with, like, the greatest of buttons. No button is bad. But, like, some are, like, truly laugh out loud blackouts. And then some, you're like, that was fine.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which I know somebody who saw it. That was an annoying thing for them because they don't love blackouts. So they're like, I didn't think that was like such a mic drop. I'm like, it's not about that. It's the style of the show.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Overall, though, I think that the show is a great structure. And Mary Tell Lincoln actually has a great arc. Cole gives them a want and a need and obstacles, and they overcome those obstacles, which I say the book writers of all these so called fun musicals. Take a look at O Mary of not only the structure and the wants and needs of the main character, but also the economy with which the show is written.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And get inspiration from that.

[B]

Or Cole write some musicals.

[A]

Cole can write a musical. Cole loves musicals. I know all the niche references in Breakfast Buffet. You know that Cole knows as much about musicals as I do.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Probably more talking about Jody Benson doing Chess out in California. I was like that. That is faggotry right there.

[B]

With Doug Sills.

[A]

With Doug Sills. And speaking of Jodi Benson in Chess, we need to take a break. Billy, I beg to differ with you. How do you mean? You're the top. Yeah. You're an arrow collar. You're the top. You're a Coolidge doll. And we're back. So if Yellowface is deemed a revival along with Home, we have it competing with Our Town.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Romeo and Juliet, Othello.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And Glengarry Glen Ross which has been announced but no theater yet. And then possibly Dorian Gray with Sarah Snook which was announced, I think for an intention for the spring, but they haven't said.

[B]

But is that a revival?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

I think it's a new adaptation. Because it's a one person thing.

[A]

Possibly possible because, well, one man, two governors. Didn't they try to go in for revival and they ended up being deemed a new play or did they try to go for new play and got deemed a revival?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

These things are always weird to me.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

When it's like a text that everybody knows and they don't necessarily like rewrite it so much as they adapt it for something like.

[B]

Like a one person little shops. Made sense.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Things like that. But I think this is a new adaptation. Okay. It's like Christmas Carol, right?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

There's a different Christmas Carol every year and each different one gets like its own.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Best if it's nominated.

[A]

Yeah. I wish I had seen the Christmas Carol pre covered. The one that Matthew Orchestra directed.

[B]

Oh yeah. It was beautiful.

[A]

It looked beautiful with all the candles.

[B]

They were talking about making it annual. But then the next season, post Covid, they had the Jefferson Mays one, which was stunning.

[A]

I like that one a lot. It was a lot of fun. There were a couple of weird touches in there. Did they have Sufjan Stevens music in that one?

[B]

No.

[A]

They had some indie music in there at some point.

[B]

They might have had. Yeah.

[A]

And I was like, I'm not sure why, but there was a lot of really cool trick staging there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I loved it when Jefferson Mays went to the door, the back of the stage and then popped up in the proscenium and you realized that it was a double. I was like, that's some Phantom of the Opera. Michael Arden.

[B]

Yeah. Michael Arden. No Mrs.

[A]

Yeah. I think he gets better with each show though.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I did not love Spring Awakening, but I thought there was a lot of cool stuff in there. I thought once on. On this island was actually better and more confident. And then I thought his work on Parade was really good. Someone in the Discord did mention though that he has issues with sightlines.

[B]

Sure. I feel like a lot of directors do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because everybody, they're all watching their shows from row G and center.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they're not going up into the. The balcony at all.

[A]

Yeah. Or like to the left of the orchestra and finding out that the platform you have for parade means that actually a solid, like, 40 of your audience can't see major pieces of staging.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Which is a shame because there's a lot of great stuff going on in. In that production. But I'm excited to see what happens with Queen of Versailles.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Versailles.

[B]

Versailles.

[A]

I know it's Versailles.

[B]

That woman is from my hometown.

[A]

I'm just. I'm just. I'm pulling a Dominique Avenue.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

The Queen of Vercel. Vercels.

[B]

Vercelli.

[A]

Yes. Vercelli's Kristin Chenoweth, the star of A Queen of Versailles.

[B]

That just sounds like a pasta.

[A]

Yeah. Or he would go the other way and be like Christian Chenoweth in the Queen of Versailles. I think he would go Queen of Versailles. Versailles. It's not like Tommy Kavanaugh to mispronounce French. He would. He would go far too deep.

[B]

Somehow, every time I see you, you get a little gayer, and I just have to.

[A]

I don't think I get gayer. I think it just get freakier.

[B]

Both.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Why not both instead?

[A]

Speaking of gayer. But so with those revivals, sure. I. I'm very excited for Othello. Probably I'm not gonna be able to see it because of how expensive it is. Yeah. I just. I don't. I don't know anyone who's gonna be willing to go to that.

[B]

You get tickets now.

[A]

I don't think that's what they're gonna give me tickets for. There's. They're holding out on me for the roommate right now.

[B]

That's weird. Thankfully, I have, like, a lot of critic friends who like to bring me as a plus one. Yeah.

[A]

I'm reaching out to friends already and being like, so Othello.

[B]

So. Yeah. Hey.

[A]

Yeah. How about her? We'll see what happens with that one. But, I mean, I'm still holding out hope for the roommate. I think that they're just being a little stingy right now before it opens.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And I'm. I think by the end of September, I'll be able to get some 100. But, yeah, Othello. I think that's going to be a major player in revival. Romeo and Juliet. We'll see what happens with Romeo and Juliet. I am. I am so on the fence of that. That's going to be good. Or not.

[B]

I love that cast.

[A]

It's a fun cast.

[B]

I love how young that cast is.

[A]

The moment they added Gabby Beans, I was like, oh, so we came to play.

[B]

Yes. And Kit Connor of Heartstoppers. Come on.

[A]

I don't think I'm allowed to talk about Kit Connor on Mike anymore.

[B]

Legally.

[A]

Legally.

[B]

Yeah, but, like, that's two of the Heartstoppers cast in the same season.

[A]

It's true.

[B]

Or the same year in.

[A]

Same calendar year. Yeah.

[B]

That's wild.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

They're showing their chops.

[A]

Yeah, they're. Well, they're out here trying to become good, which I love. I mean, they're already good.

[B]

Like Daniel Radcliffe.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah. They're not resting on being, you know, teen heartthrobs. They are. They want a long career and they want to pick cool projects while they have the clout. And I think that's really admirable.

[B]

Who's directing this Romeo and Julia?

[A]

Sam Gold. Which is why I'm a little on the fence.

[B]

It's gonna be up and down.

[A]

Exactly. I will say this is Sam Gold's third production, in the Circle in the Square. And the other two he had were Fun Home and Enemy of the People, two of my favorite nights of theater. So maybe that theater is just good luck for him.

[B]

Much like the Beaumont and Bart Sheer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Unless this is Sam Gold's Camelot.

[B]

Oh, why do you hate me?

[A]

Because the gay men are self hating, baby.

[B]

Wait, that's so. What's so funny is I went to Bart Shearer's Wikipedia and I didn't even see Camelot on there. And I don't know if my eyes just jumped over it or Wikipedia was.

[A]

Like, there never was a camel toe. We don't know what you're talking about. Anyway, that had computer graphics in it, too.

[B]

I'm very intrigued by. First of all, like, suddenly we're in this weird Romeo and Juliet renaissance. Yeah, because they just did it on the West End with Tom Holland. Yeah, but I was thinking of the director.

[A]

Oh, Jimmy Lloyd.

[B]

Yeah. And so this will be wildly different than that.

[A]

And they're doing it at Art right now.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

What is it in, like, the public Domain or something?

[B]

Weird.

[A]

Weird.

[B]

My God, show business.

[A]

It's like the new Gatsby or something.

[B]

Geez, they don't even have to pay royalties. My God.

[A]

Yeah, no, I'm. There are so many variables right now with all these revivals. Because, like, also Our Town. I don't know what the fuck that's gonna be.

[B]

I've never seen Our Town.

[A]

Never.

[B]

No, I know, girl. I've never read Our Town.

[A]

Girl.

[B]

Girl. Girl.

[A]

Rashberry.

[B]

Oh, now you're just speaking dolphin.

[A]

We're. We're. We're. Where have you been?

[B]

Well, doing musicals.

[A]

Gross. No, you know that they tried. You know that they tried to make a musical out of Our Town by.

[B]

My friend John Kanter and Fred Ebbs.

[A]

And also Jones and Schmidt.

[B]

Oh, yes. Grover's Corners.

[A]

Grover's Corners, yes. I don't remember what happened to that. Why it.

[B]

They only had the royal. The. The rights for a limited time, and when they did it in Chicago at the Marriott.

[A]

Sounds about right.

[B]

Yeah. Liz Calloway was in it, and I feel like Mary Martin was supposed to be the stage manager, but. Right. Didn't happen and they didn't get it right. And the. The rights lapsed and they just.

[A]

This was like, what, the early 80s?

[B]

Yeah. Thornton Mid 80s, I want to say.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And Thornton Wilder was like, no.

[A]

Yeah. This must have been around. Yeah, this. So this was around the time Mary Martin had done or was about to do Legend.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So she was. If she was attached to it, it was probably for a minute, and then when, like, push came to shove, she.

[B]

She was like, I'd rather be in Brazil with my husband.

[A]

Well, her. She had no memory for lions or lyrics anymore.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And no one was saying it. James Kirkwood had to find out the hard way during Legends.

[B]

That book is perfect.

[A]

That book and Song of Spider Man.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Give me such anxiety reading them. They're amazing books, and I will read them once a year till I'm dead.

[B]

But what's the name of the Kirkwood.

[A]

Diary of a Mad Playwright.

[B]

Yes, it is wonderful. And you can get it on Kindle.

[A]

Yeah. It's so good.

[B]

Worth it.

[A]

It makes me want to read Legends now, though, because.

[B]

Oh, have you ever watched Legends?

[A]

I've seen clips of the. Of them.

[B]

Whole thing is on YouTube.

[A]

Okay, I'll watch it. Because what everyone says is that, like, it's so campy and fun, but it's a bad play.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And. Well, I'm like, that's part of reason why it. It failed. But you read the book and you're like, it must be good because they're, like, recognizing problems and, like, there's talking about how it's working and all these other things. But then the reviews keep coming out, and they're always bad.

[B]

Yeah. But, like, if your cast isn't accepting changes because they're.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Joe Biden, you know, old, old, old.

[A]

Oh, sure. And I was about to say Joe Biden accepted change. He stepped aside.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Unlike Mary Martin.

[B]

Yeah. And who was being fed lines and picking up taxi signals. Can you imagine?

[A]

I can.

[B]

Oh, God. Anyway, it happened to Michelle Federer and Wicked.

[A]

Her chair used to move all the time. Because of taxis.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wow. Thank God she's still married. Nora. Leo. But so good for her.

[A]

They survived it together. He entered his bag, and she was getting whipped around by taxi cabs. And they were like, this is our paradise square.

[B]

Whipped around by taxi cabs is truly just a ride at Coney Island. All right, what's our next show?

[A]

I don't even know, but I will say Our Town. Yeah, that for me. So I thought, well, it's. It's a fun group of people. I have no idea if it's gonna gel just like, for, like the moment you say Katie Holmes is in Our Town, my brain goes, what does that look like? What does that sound like?

[B]

A lot of hair pushing back.

[A]

Yeah. And a lot of jaw acting. Every time I think of Katie Holmes, I think of Anne Hathaway's imitation of her on snl. It's like, yeah, yeah. And then what's her face? The girl is playing Emily, who I love. She was in the. The movie back there about the agent's assistants on Netflix. What's her name? God damn it. Zoe Deutsch. Zoe Dutch.

[B]

I love that for you. Is that the show?

[A]

No, that's the name of the actress.

[B]

No, no, but I love that for you. Is that the show you're talking about?

[A]

No, it was. It was a movie on Netflix. Rom com with Glenn Powell. Glenn Powell.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There you go. And Glenn Close. Glenn Close isn't everything. She's. It's just a lot of makeup.

[B]

She's just trying.

[A]

Yeah. You know that Glenn. Glenn Close was the twister in Twisters.

[B]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[A]

Amazing performance. She's Jane Krakowski and yellowface, you know, But I just don't know what that revival is going to be.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it's a beautiful play and I'm interested for you to see it.

[B]

And Kenny Leon, what are your thoughts on him as a theater director?

[A]

I think that Kenny is a really good caster, which is why I'm, like, both iffy on Our Town and also, like, cautiously optimistic. I think he puts together a really good ensemble. 90% of the time.

[B]

That's how I feel about Scott Ellis.

[A]

Yes. My issue with Kenny is I don't feel like he's the most hands on director. And sometimes it works like Top Dog, Underdog. You just sort of need two good actors who have a grip on the material and let them fl.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For something like Our Town, you do kind of need to have an end goal and a vision and a way to hoard Everybody.

[B]

What was the Shakespeare in the park he did with Daniel Brooks?

[A]

Oh, Much Ado About Nothing.

[B]

Wonderful.

[A]

Everyone has told me. That was amazing.

[B]

Yeah. Like, truly one of the best Shakespeare in the parks I've seen.

[A]

That's what I've heard. And I really enjoyed Pearly Victorious.

[B]

Yes, me too.

[A]

But I felt that Pearly Victorious was hindered a little bit because Kenny's not much of a stager, and that was a show that needed it. So there was a lot of comedic stage business that just didn't land because he's not good at that. But I'm hoping our town can still fly with that. We'll see. Sunset Boulevard, did you see that in.

[B]

Sure did.

[A]

Uhhuh.

[B]

Loved it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Did you see it?

[A]

No.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

It was. It was closed by the time I got.

[B]

I walked in with a raised eyebrow and I left there with a heart on. It was so good.

[A]

Everyone I know who saw and loved it. Well, the only people I know who saw it who didn't have, like, raves to say about it. They were. What they said was, I can't tell you if it was good. I can only tell you I loved it.

[B]

Yeah. It's so wildly different.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

From, you know, OG Sunset. And I'm very much. I really like Sunset Boulevard. I saw it a lot in the original. I saw like, six times. I have seen so many Norma Desmonds.

[A]

There's a space for you in heaven.

[B]

Ah, that's true. I should probably be on a list, but, you know, I've seen. It's like Florence Lacey do it in.

[A]

D.C. so just every Evita who's ever done.

[B]

Yes. And listen, any. Any way I can get my hands on Sarah Brightman shit of it, which is bizarre.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I want it. It's that kind of show. What they're doing with this Sunset is so fascinating. And, God, she's good. The whole cast.

[A]

I'm. I am interested to see it. I do not hold Sunset Boulevard, the musical, in terribly high esteem.

[B]

That's okay.

[A]

I understand it means a great deal as many homosexuals.

[B]

Yeah. It's much like Gypsy.

[A]

Yeah. Well, for me it's. And I've talked about this before. I think the movie is a masterpiece. And it is. I. I don't personally feel that Andrew Lloyd Rubber understands what makes the movie tick. And when I read Murder at the Adelphi.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Great book.

[A]

Book it. It is 50 of a great book and 50 of stuff I don't care about.

[B]

Yeah. 100. So murder, the Adelphi is the production he's the ensemble Equity deputy. Equity deputy and ensemble ensemble member of the London production, the original Sunset Boulevard. And it's his diaries of that time. And so, yeah, sometimes it's like, I'm going to go direct this benefit for three people in like Oslo or somewhere. But then it's like wonderful tea, a lot of fun. And it's over 400 pages, not one photo because. And so, you know, it's like chockablock.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He's there through Betty.

[A]

He's there through Betty. I think he. So speaking of Betty, the way that it works, you know, obviously it goes through his casting and then rehearsals and tech. Tech is a major chunk of the book, of course, which again, also talk about, you know, giving you anxiety every time. They talk about how like something. Something stops and breaks and previews and performances. And he covers the paddy firing a little bit, but doesn't go into it too much just because it's already clear by that point in the book that like, there's so much mismanagement and miscommunication with British Equity and really useful group. And just like British Equity not having the actors backs at all, they're just trying to let really useful group do whatever they want.

[B]

Right.

[A]

My favorite favorite part of the book. And my friend Danny and I laugh about it to this day because Danny let me. The book is basically so Patty come leaves and he goes, you know. June 30th, Betty Buckley joined the company. December 30th, Elaine Paige showed up. Like, it's. He does not talk about Betty in the show at all.

[B]

Barely.

[A]

Barely.

[B]

I mean, he does. He's like. The show had a contract with her. That was like. She didn't. The show didn't start until she was emotionally prepared.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

That was written in the contract. That's a cuckoo doo.

[A]

It is absolutely cookie do. So they would often hold the curtain for like 30 minutes.

[B]

Imagine.

[A]

She also wouldn't show up to like 10 minutes before. Anyway, what she was famous for doing. Yeah, there's a very, very famous Story of Cats because she kept showing up later and later to curtain. Because granted, Grizabelle, in the original production, she doesn't show up until like 30 minutes into Act 1. She has one line in the opening number which is she's like behind a bunch of garbage cans and she doesn't come on stage. So it's just face. And Betty had found a way to get her makeup down within like five minutes. So she would show up like 10 minutes for a curtain, five minutes for a curtain, throw it on, do her one line, and then, like, get into her Grizzabella garb. And they kept writing her up to Equity and nothing was getting done. So finally one day, they're like, she's not gonna show up for half hour like she's supposed to. And of course, when it got to half hour, she wasn't there. They locked the door, and they put the understudy on, and supposedly Betty showed up, like, 10 minutes before curtain. And when the door was locked, she was just pounding like a mad woman trying to get in. And then eventually just went home and gave up because she couldn't get into the building.

[B]

That's wild.

[A]

Yeah. They should have done that for Sunset. But that. That British production was a power bottom, if ever there was one. They were just bending. The management on that show was just bending over for everybody.

[B]

This production is a power top.

[A]

That is what I hear.

[B]

Yes. It's so great.

[A]

All I know is, is that everyone's in black. There are projections black and white.

[B]

Everybody's black. It's in black and white. And, yeah, they use a movie screen, which normally I hate.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I am not a fan of just make a movie. I say that all the time. But the use of it in this, because it is a show about film, does not grate on me as much. And so. But they also use the close up a lot. The power of the close up. Yeah, it's important, I think. And she's so extraordinary.

[A]

Well, that's sort of always been the tricky thing with shows about movie making, is because we're so beholden to the theater.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We can't really showcase a story as well that's about film. So. Yeah, I agree with you. I think that that's a case where you having cameras actually works, but it's not an Eva Van Hoffe west side Story. We're like, why?

[B]

Why are you guys in the back.

[A]

Of the theater with camera phones? Why?

[B]

Yeah, come on, do better. I do want to anybody who's seen the show jump into the discord and tell me what you think happens at the very, very end that she's covered in that much blood.

[A]

Because I have theories.

[B]

Great, go.

[A]

I feel like it has something to do with the mad scene where she's thinking she's in Salome kissing the mouth of the beheaded.

[B]

Kissed him.

[A]

I think she. I think she kisses Joe.

[B]

Huh.

[A]

And I think because of the bled from being shot.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

It gets on her mouth and face.

[B]

It's everywhere.

[A]

It's everywhere.

[B]

Like Carrie, it.

[A]

Yes, like Carrie. Or like Barry Keoghan in that one scene of Saltburn.

[B]

Nicole Scheisinger, the Lindsay Hadley of our time.

[A]

We need a Saltburn musical with the song called Lucky for you I'm a Vampire.

[B]

Murder on the dance floor.

[A]

If you know, you know. Yeah, but no. Yeah, yeah. In the discord, let us know. Don't actually spoil it if you do know. Yeah. Just make guesses if you don't.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah, but listen, that is clearly a front runner for revival. She's a front runner for actress 100. And we say this because who knows how well Tammy Faye is gonna do on Broadway. Maybe it'll bomb. Gypsy is a giant question mark right now.

[B]

Ah, yeah. But a great question mark.

[A]

Well, it's. It's huge payoff, but also could be a huge loss. It's the magnitude of Audra in that role being directed by George C. Wolf. And we're all just sort of like, please be good.

[B]

Please be good. And with the cast that I've heard of. Norbert, Leo Butz as Herbie. As Herbie. Joy woods as Louise and Jordan Tyson or Isabelle Michaela. Yeah. June. Yeah. Come on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It doesn't get better.

[A]

I'm. I am very interested to see which one it ends up being. I. I could see it in honest. In honesty, I think that Isabelle is much more of a Louise than she is a June. But I do know that a fair skin, white passing June is what's important to George C. Wolf in this production. So I understand that.

[B]

That's what I find fascinating. Like a play not about race is going to be implicitly about race in this production without them changing a word of dialogue. I can't wait. Yeah. And to have our greatest living American theater actress take on the Lear, really, the Hamlet of musical theater. Come on. I can't wait.

[A]

Yeah. And what I love about George C. Wolfe, direct again. Why I've wanted him to direct it.

[B]

For Came out of retirement.

[A]

Came out of retirement to do it. I wanted him to direct it for so long. Granted, I wanted it with. With Toni Collette, but I understand that was a pipe dream. She'll never do a musical on Broadway ever again. And if it can't be Tony, Audra's wonderful.

[B]

No, but Tony was almost gonna do Mame.

[A]

Yeah, I know. But then. Then Scott Ruden got cancelled and Covid happened, and one of us just has to get in her good graces and get her to do it.

[B]

But.

[A]

But George is not a precious director. He is so smart, and he's got such a fire within him. He's so good at presenting Heat on stage. And I honestly felt that we got a little precious with Gypsy the last couple of years just in terms of its importance and its magnitude and all this stuff. I'm like, no, no, let's get fucking messy with it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's, that's what he's gonna do. He's not changing the. The text, but he is going to have fun with it and make it alive. And I'm very excited for that because my favorite version of that overture is the Tyne Daily recording, conducted by Eric Stern.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

That orchestra fucks hard.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I need that orchestra to fuck hard again.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't want the slow ass tempos of the Lawrence revival of this last one with Patty.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

It was a slow tempo.

[B]

Oh, they were acting.

[A]

They. They made sure you knew it.

[B]

They were reacting with capital A.

[A]

Yes, they sure were.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Everyone's chest was being thumped. Everyone's nipples were getting rubbed.

[B]

Right now.

[A]

Every. Right now. And I look forward to seeing Norbert and Audra do it. I think it'll be a fun time.

[B]

Yeah. The two of them are great casting together because when you think about it, he and Danny Burstein are probably like our greatest male musical theater actors. For sure.

[A]

Absolutely. Well, because they, they both sing so well. Norbert is vocally overqualified for Herbie, but Joy woods is vocally overqualified for Louise.

[B]

To be fair, anybody is vocally overqualified for Herbie.

[A]

Yes. Well, maybe not Harvey Fierstein, but everyone else.

[B]

No, you don't. No, not a chance.

[A]

Maybe not Jeffrey. Maybe not Jeffrey Tambo, but everyone else.

[B]

But he was in and out of that LA cage faster than I was in and out of the Taco Bell on 59th the other day.

[A]

I mean, but also, like, wouldn't you be?

[B]

But so he.

[A]

No, he's vocally overqualified, obviously. But like, he's a beautiful, wonderful actor. A wonderful dropped in, natural actor. He's not. He can be showy when it. When it calls for it, but he's so gregarious and honest. Honest. Yeah. I got to see him do how I learned to drive at Second Stage many years ago.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

He was. What's his face, Uncle Flick or whatever his name is, and was so incredible in it.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

It was true. Like the show kind of was about him in that production. Because you can't not take your eyes off of Norbert.

[B]

Right. Much like Sydney Harcourt and Cats.

[A]

Yes. Oh, Sidney. Sydney and Cats is.

[B]

We were blessed this summer.

[A]

We sure were. Cat's the Jellicle Ball, man, that. That gave me everything I needed in a bag of chips twice. And some queso. It's.

[B]

I could go for some queso anyway, anyway.

[A]

But, yeah, I mean, ultimately, other Gypsy is exciting.

[B]

That's.

[A]

Yeah, it's exciting and a big question mark. And we're hopeful.

[B]

And Tom Carnegie is a man of taste who also spends money. So we're gonna get, like, a set.

[A]

I hope so.

[B]

You know what I mean? Yeah. Because I saw the Sam Mendes production that did not have a set.

[A]

No, it had a. It had a semi set.

[B]

Yeah, semi.

[A]

We could all do wonders with a semi. But.

[B]

And Arthur's, like, Encores version, which had a set.

[A]

Yeah, but, like, there's a difference between the Patti LuPone gypsy set slash Sutton Once Upon a Mattress set, and then the Sam Mendes Gypsy set. Like the San Mendy's Gypsy set was. The idea was that it was all the world's a stage. And, like, there. There was intention behind it. It maybe wasn't lush, but there was great intention.

[B]

I didn't love that production.

[A]

And this is where the episode ends. No, I. I know many people didn't love that production.

[B]

I did see it the first time I saw it was the first night Bernardette was out, and Maureen Moore was her standby, and she was exemplary. She was incredible. And they had added some drops that night for the first time because they were doing it on a bear stage the whole time. And so they were just starting to add things. I just. I didn't love that production.

[A]

That production had a lot of changes during rehearsals and also in. In previews, because also there was what Sam wanted to do. I think Sam did kind of want more of a Nicole Scherzinger Sunset Boulevard situation. Like, not a lot of set and, like, really messy shit.

[B]

Yeah. And Arthur's like, you're not taking a chance on my show.

[A]

Exactly. And so it became a lot more traditional over time, but it's fine. I look forward to seeing what George does.

[B]

And they're gonna spend money on orchestra.

[A]

Yeah. Full orchestra. Full orchestra. Left on 10th by Delia Efron.

[B]

Right. That is a play happening this year. Yes.

[A]

Starring Peter Gallagher and Juliana Margulies.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Moving right along.

[B]

Well, that'll be like a nice rom com, right? We'll see a lot of tan and beige. Sure, sure.

[A]

It's like a Nancy Myers kitchen.

[B]

Yes, exactly.

[A]

Wonderful World, the Louis Armstrong musical.

[B]

So this has been heavily rewritten since it played out of town.

[A]

Yeah, that's what I heard.

[B]

Yeah. Jason Forbach's character, the Crooner didn't exist in the out of town version.

[A]

Didn't know that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Jason told me that the sides were good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He's now in. Fully in rehearsal, so he can't tell me. But when we last spoke, he had been cast and hadn't read the script. And I was like, well, what were the sides like? He was like, sides were fun.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I'm hopeful.

[B]

He said he wasn't sure what songs he was being given yet at that time. The last time I saw it, him, but yes. Yeah, I. I hope it's good.

[A]

I would like for it to be good. It looks cool.

[B]

54, but it's not. It's a rental.

[A]

It's a rental. Yeah. Roundabout pretty much is renting everything but American Airlines these days.

[B]

I mean, I feel like they just didn't have a plan in place for when Todd passed away, and so they're just sort of figuring it out.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I think was Caroline or Change the only show they've had Post Covid at 54 below that was theirs.

[B]

Because I don't think that can't be the only one.

[A]

I don't think that the Minutes was theirs. I think that was.

[B]

Minutes was not. Days of Wine and Roses was a rental.

[A]

Yeah. Let me see.

[B]

Huh.

[A]

I think. And Pictures from Home was not that. Yeah. I think Caroline or change three years ago is the only roundabout show at 54 below since. Since COVID God.

[B]

I did that cast album. Let me tell you, she is singing.

[A]

She is singing.

[B]

That lot's Wife is one take.

[A]

I'm sure it is.

[B]

It's glorious.

[A]

There's a lot of gifted singing in that revival. And luckily with that album, you don't have to look at the costumes.

[B]

Unless you get the digital liner notes.

[A]

This is true.

[B]

I just.

[A]

Yeah, I just remember seeing that. I was like, oh, we're going very literal with this radio and this washing machine.

[B]

But Casey was so good.

[A]

Casey surprised me in that role. Because when you've seen V on Cox do it at a very young, impressionable age, sure. The brain goes. No one ever, not once. Just her and Casey again. Talk about fucking. Vocally overqualified. Vocally overqualified for Rose Stopnik.

[B]

But she worked, did something wildly different.

[A]

Yeah. And was beautiful. Honestly, she was my favorite in that production.

[B]

Oh, God. Did you see her next to Normal?

[A]

No, I did not see her next.

[B]

Was it.

[A]

I'm.

[B]

Well, well, it's not this season, but.

[A]

Well, well, well, we. We are told things and then sometimes things happen.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I know that they Hope to come in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's because I will say with next. The rumor of next normal coming in. It is. It is a question of when. If. Not necessarily if, but obviously the hope would be to come in in a season where they could win revival and she could win. Yeah. But as anyone will tell you, when the money's there and the theater's available, you kind of just have to go. Even if it's not ideal, it's not.

[B]

Coming in this season.

[A]

You know that for a fact?

[B]

I. 90%.

[A]

But you have that 10%.

[B]

Don't we all have a 10%?

[A]

Well, I just know that I. I also was told next season, but I was not told definitively. I was just told. That is their intention.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I said, the fact that you're wording it this way makes me know that they're. They have a plan. But also like Will up on that plan if everything falls into line.

[B]

David Stone is a smart man. He knows what he's doing.

[A]

Yeah. Again, it's. It's for feature. For a feature. For actress. It is so crowded.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you want Casey to win that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Tony. You want the revival to win. But again, any. Anything could happen. I. Anything could happen. Maybe, Maybe. Maybe. Last five years, calls it quits the last second.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Adrian Warren has experience with that happening with her shows.

[B]

Oh, no. Yes. Yeah, it does.

[A]

Maybe. Maybe Tina Landell will go, why are we doing Floyd Collins and the Vivian Beaumont? Maybe we should put that into a different theater.

[B]

I have questions.

[A]

I. I know a lot of the. I know a lot of the names that went in for Floyd. I know that they were. They're officially looking for someone early to mid-30s, because Floyd is a young character, technically speaking, but we're used to men playing him. I know a lot of people were like, oh, what if it's Steven Pasquale?

[B]

Right.

[A]

They were looking for much younger than Steven Pasquale. They're also looking for a semi name because otherwise, how the fuck are they gonna sell that show?

[B]

Right.

[A]

I just have no idea what that's gonna be like. That is. That is the smallest of small shows.

[B]

In a cave.

[A]

In a cave.

[B]

Literally in a cave.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But also, like, the Beaumont is a cave. Yeah.

[A]

The Beaumont is intimate when you have a My Fair lady or a war horse going on. But when you're doing Uncle Vanya, it does. It feels like a fucking football stadium.

[B]

It is.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know what they're gonna do.

[B]

I do trust Tina Lando.

[A]

I hope to trust her because it's her second time with the show and she knows it well and she's a good director.

[B]

She wrote it.

[A]

She co wrote it with.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I just every. Everyone has their mulligans.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

You know, sometimes the director returns to a show and it's not as good the second time.

[B]

Into the Woods.

[A]

Into the woods with Lapine and Landau did do that show last year that I didn't like. Play of Mother.

[B]

Oh, right.

[A]

So we. We go in every time with that open mind at arm's length. But I just. I don't know. So just some of the people I know who went in for it, I was like, what the fuck are you looking for?

[B]

Maybe they don't know.

[A]

Yeah. They're like, hoping to discover it in the room.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But the last time I heard that happening with auditions was when they were casting the Lapine revival of woods, where they just, like, saw everyone because they didn't know what they wanted.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And that's tricky. Although the two people I know who didn't make it to the next callback were both told they didn't fit Tina's vision. I was like, I don't think she's got a vision. If both of you went in for this.

[B]

But it's all a Rubik's Cube, right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Basically. Anyone, if you're. If you're dream casting a Floyd right now, all I'll say is think of people who at least have one Tony nomination. And those are the people that are going in for it. They have to have had at least one Tony nomination.

[B]

Watch it. Be Ethan Slater.

[A]

To be Ethan Slater. Ethan's much more of a Homer anyway. Vocally speaking.

[B]

100%, but.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel you. I feel you.

[B]

Adam Cantor, he went in for it. No. I don't know. Throwing out.

[A]

I say doesn't have a Tony nomination.

[B]

No. But he's known.

[A]

No. Stephen Sondheim's old friends. Did you see that in London?

[B]

Oh, yeah. I did not like it.

[A]

Yeah. The only person I know who liked it is my friend Danny. And Danny is a weirdo.

[B]

I. I liked moments of it. Claire Burt did the best lady so Lunch I've ever seen in my life. But and Last Long is very good.

[A]

I heard she does a really good Mrs. Lovett.

[B]

She's oddly like a very good impressionist. So when she does Everything's Coming Up Roses and like Worst Pies in London, she's eerily doing Angela Lansbury and Ethel Merman. She just has a very good ear. If you listen to her. There's a cast album of her doing Baby and she sounds exactly like Liz Calloway. She has a very good ear for that. She's great. I did not care for Bernadette the night I saw the show. She was very sick and kept pulling at her collar because I guess she couldn't breathe. She was not good. Also, there's way too many people in this cast. There's something like 15, something like that.

[A]

And I don't know how many people from London are now coming over because Leia and Bernadette are confirmed.

[B]

I think they're the only two.

[A]

There have been rumors of some others coming in, but I don't. That could be because once again Cameron McIntosh doesn't really know what he's looking for. An American cast.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Again, everyone and their mother has gone in for old friends.

[B]

They might bring in Gavin Lee.

[A]

They might. I was informed that they are. They've got my beloved Joe writing on hold.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

Not confirmed, but on hold again because I, I have spoken to so many people who went in for it. Both like names and like not total names.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And. But like they're not making any offers. Everyone has to audition. They're. They were getting down to like the final callbacks with people including Judy K. And not an. But Judy K. And sorry, the story I'm thinking of involves an Harada, but she wasn't going in for it. She saw Judy K. Auditioning and she was like, why the are you auditioning? You're a two time Tony winner. But like got, they got down to like the final callbacks and then they started from scratch again because Cameron McIntosh actually didn't like anyone that they had.

[B]

Yeah. I just, I don't know. It's. It was kind of like a review that you see on a boat.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or you go to Busch Gardens and you've eaten and so you go and watch the performers do their 60 minute set.

[A]

When was the last time we had a really great review? On Broadway.

[B]

On Broadway.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I guess Fosse.

[A]

I guess. I think After Midnight was a lot of fun.

[B]

Oh, I loved After Midnight actually. Yes. And yeah. That was technically a review.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But like so like the, the, the gold standard of all reviews is aimless behavior.

[B]

100%. Yeah.

[A]

And that was done because a. It was focused similar to Sondheim was focused on one person's catalog. But Fats Waller didn't write songs for specific shows. He just wrote a catalog of things. And they shaped the whole show around these bold personalities that they had that made the whole Thing just fire and. Because in a weird way, like when they always tell you, if you want to write something universal, write a story that's very specific and that becomes universal. And in a weird way, by modeling Amos behaving off of those very specific personalities, they created a show that. That so many people can do because it's so unique and offers these amazing opportunities for unique performers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Old Friends just sort of feels like not.

[B]

Not that it isn't. Yeah, it truly isn't. And that's a. It's a pity.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I just. I feel like, first of all, there have been so many Sondheim reviews already.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Too many. One would say far too many. There was one joke and Xana Don't. That was probably the best joke. And it's. It was putting. Putting it Together. Side by Side by Side by Side by Side by Side by Sondheim was the name of the review. Dumb and dumb and specific and very funny.

[A]

But yeah, we've had Side by Side by Sondheim. We've had two different versions of Putting It Together. We had Marry Me a Little.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We've had Sondheim on Sondheim.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now we've got Old Friends.

[B]

Right. And it just diminishing returns also because there's too many people in this, like most people aren't super featured. Joe writing had one song.

[A]

That's criminal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That woman deserves a million songs.

[B]

She was incredible.

[A]

She's. You don't put Joanna riding on stage and not give her six songs.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

What the fuck are we doing here, people? Speaking of Tina Lando, actually. So someone actually said in the Discord. Are we seeing any trends this season? One of the trends that I want to mention is directors having multiple shows.

[B]

Oh, so many. Yeah.

[A]

We've got Susan Stroman with left on 10th and smash when Smash happens.

[B]

We have Kenny Leon.

[A]

Kenny Leon with Home, Our Town and Othello.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is going to the Barrymore in the spring. We have Tina Landau with Redwood and Floyd Collins. Redwood is an interesting question mark.

[B]

Yeah. It played at Art under a different title.

[A]

It did.

[B]

I think it was called Wild.

[A]

Yes, it was Wild and it.

[B]

Think then it went to la.

[A]

Yeah. Old Globe, maybe, something like that. Yeah.

[B]

California.

[A]

Yeah. I think. But I think that's where it went under the name Redwood, maybe. Yes.

[B]

That's when it changed.

[A]

Yes. Oh, we have the Strangers Things play coming in. Which.

[B]

Oh, right.

[A]

Which everyone I know who's seen it in London was like, it's so cool looking. The play itself is garbage.

[B]

Well, it's going into the right theater.

[A]

It sure is. And I'm hoping it'll sell for a little bit. Have the marquee be filled for six to 12 months and call it a day.

[B]

That when you walk into the marquee and you look above the bar at all those posters, it's like being. It's like Joe Allen's adjacent kind of.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All the flops that have played there.

[A]

It's truly spot the hits because it's like four. Yeah, yeah. It's me and my girl Annie, get.

[B]

Your gun with Bernie, Damn Yankees.

[A]

Damn Yankees and drowsy. Those were the only money making shows at that theater.

[B]

Maybe Gypsy.

[A]

Gypsy, I think. Well, Gypsy was a transfer from the St. James, so I don't. I'm not counting her.

[B]

But she ran long enough to replace.

[A]

Gypsy did make money, but because Gypsy, they did the same business model as Angela, which they toured for six months at the time. They got to Broadway, they recouped and then they moved to the marquee.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But yes, Millie was one of those flop hits where it ran for two years but didn't fully recoup.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Nine to five. Didn't recoup, obviously. Yeah.

[B]

Anyway, Wonderland. Please do enjoy my Joe Allen joke. Joke.

[A]

It's a great joke. What do we know about maybe happy ending?

[B]

Very little. It played the Alliance.

[A]

Yes, it did.

[B]

Daniel Criss, Helen J. Shen, Des Duron, who I enjoyed on the Voice. Great crooner, singer. I don't know what it's about. That logo tells me nothing. It might be like an AI Simulation thing kinda.

[A]

I understand that. Yeah. There's like computers and romance. I think.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

It's a very small cast. It's like three people. I think four.

[B]

I think four. Yeah. But also like, there were rumors that they didn't have their capitalization.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they pushed a month.

[A]

They did. And apparently they got. They. They claimed that it was due to technology. Technology, Supply and demand for the set.

[B]

Possible.

[A]

But. But they. They do have the money now.

[B]

Yeah. Great.

[A]

Good for them. We'll see what happens. I. I was told it was very delightful at the alliance, but I've also been told that people are worried that the Belasco is too big of a theater for it. And the Belasco is not a barn. But like, neither is the James Earl Jones. And yet it kind of felt like a barn when I saw heart of rock and roll.

[B]

Oh, sure. I think the thinking is Darren Criss managed to sell out Hedwig here, so he'll sell this.

[A]

I Think he will. Darren Criss is a name and he's a bigger name in musicals, as is anyone. Sure. Any star who comes in to do a musical, it's like, oh great, we'll go see that.

[B]

That. But I don't know how it's selling.

[A]

Yeah. I. Well, nothing sells immediately anymore.

[B]

It's hard to have an intrigued to see what it is. Like the first logo looked like a mouse pad.

[A]

So it reminded me of Disco Sondheim.

[B]

Oh yeah. Oh, I love that album.

[A]

It's a fun album.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

It wasn't a dig. It's just. But that's.

[B]

This color truly just looked like a mouse pad. And I was like, what are we doing? I don't understand. Okay. Okay.

[A]

Honestly, this is. That's another theme of the season of musicals being in theaters that I think are too big for it. Last five years in the Hudson. Floyd Collins in the Beaumont.

[B]

Maybe five years is in the right theater.

[A]

You think it's in the right theater?

[B]

Yeah. They're going to make money hand over fist.

[A]

Well, I'm not talking about money wise. I just mean like I. That is a 900 seat theater with a very high ceiling. It's a two person musical. They will make money.

[B]

Yeah. But they'll scale it down. They'll scale down the stage.

[A]

Okay. I just, I. If should I end up seeing that production, I will feel a million miles away from. From that summer in Ohio.

[B]

A million miles to go. But like they're smart to do at the Hudson. And the Hudson model is. Stars in a. Yeah. Name show.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Making money. It's truly like that has been the.

[A]

Hudson's model for a while now.

[B]

The summer stock model of Broadway. Really when you think about it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because it's this mattress Merrily doll's house.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think. Oh. Plaza Suite.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Death of Salesman doesn't really count.

[B]

But it does.

[A]

But Death of Salesman was before Plaza Suite because Death of Salesman wasn't really a name actor in a. In a known property. Wendell Pierce and Sharon Clarke. Like they're not.

[B]

Wendell Pierce is a name. But. And Death of a Salesman is a name.

[A]

Death of a Salesman was the name of a salesman.

[B]

Right. Like Head over Heels is the only sort of head scratcher for the Hudson in terms of what they do.

[A]

Well, it's the only new musical that's gone in there.

[B]

Right. Correct.

[A]

Because everything else. And then they had 1984 and Parisian woman. Everything else has been revivals.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Burn this. With Adam Driver and Carrie Russell. Sunday in the park with Jake and Anna.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Yeah, no, it's mostly revivals with this.

[B]

That is their model.

[A]

It's a. It's a solid model, baby.

[B]

It makes money.

[A]

It does.

[B]

And this is going to make money because they can sub out those two. They leave after whatever six months and. Or four months, whatever. And two other known quantities come in. Selena Gomez appears and makes her Broadway debut. You know what I mean? Doesn't matter. I did just pull a name out of the air.

[A]

I think the hard sell about getting names to come into do last five years is there is the benefit of it's all on. All the eyes are on you, nothing to distract. Like it's the you show.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But then the double edged sword of that is like it's the you show. So you've got no one else to lean on. Like you gotta be up for it. So that'll be tricky.

[B]

It's kinda like Hedwig kind of.

[A]

Yeah. But that's all sort of why Hedwig was difficult to do name recasting because.

[B]

Like you think they had like 17 people go in.

[A]

Yes. I would say Darren and Michael C. Hall were the most famous that got to go in. Andrew Randall Diggs. Taye Diggs closed the show.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Because he wasn't able to a. Wasn't able to sell it and also wasn't able to do it. That was a case of they went for a name who was not right for it.

[B]

I see. Because I feel like it had probably run its course by that point.

[A]

It had. Because like Andrew. Was Andrew the first replacement or was Michael C. Hall the first replacement?

[B]

Michael C. Hall. And then I think Andrew.

[A]

I think it was Andrew and then. No, no, I think it was Andrew, then Michael C. Hall and then John Mitchell. Yeah, I think so. Because I remember John Cameron Mitchell looking the floor and saying, tastes like Michael C. Hall. I know that. I know that taste anywhere. But Andrew wasn't like a huge name.

[B]

When he did it.

[A]

Darren Criss was the biggest name they got to do it at that point. Because Michael C. Hall was a year or two off of Dexter by that point. Sure. Andrew Reynolds had come off of Mormon and had done the new normal which didn't take off.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But he had girls, so that was key.

[B]

People like know who Andrew Rannel, he.

[A]

Was, you know, he was known. But like you, you. All you have to do is look at the grosses to see like they were selling at a discounted rate because he was a known but he wasn't like a big, big star.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Michael and Darren were the bigger stars who Got to do it. But again, it fluctuates. Yeah, it's tricky. It is tricky because if you. If you cast someone who's right for it, like Andrew, but doesn't have the marquee name of like Taye Diggs at that time, sure, it's double edged sword, but. Yeah, I'm interested to see what happens with that last year.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

Is it considered a limited run right now?

[B]

Yes, right now. And I think it'll be a revival.

[A]

Oh, it's absolutely revival. It's falling under the classics rule. It's had two other productions in New York at this point. Floyd Collins will be revival.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And should be classique. Classique.

[A]

Classic. Yes. Any word on Boop at this point from people in the know?

[B]

No, I. I don't know what rewriting they've done. I'm sure they've done some. I don't know. The thing is, Jerry Mitchell is working on like 800 musicals at the same time. Time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I don't know how.

[A]

Well, some might say Michael Greif did three shows last year. To which I say yes, but let's talk about what those shows.

[B]

But how many did he actually.

[A]

Well, he did work on all of them. I think the difference is that Days of Wine and Roses was pretty much set in stone by the time it came. That was just picking up and replanting. Same thing with Hell's Kitchen, which was an immediate transfer from the public. So. Sure.

[B]

Although they did like some finessing.

[A]

The smallest of that show needed a rewrite and they, I think cut five minutes off and that's really it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The biggest thing they did was just like expand it for the stage.

[B]

Sure. And then the Notebook.

[A]

And then the Notebook, which was. I'm sure I had work done from out of town, but like he had been working on it for a while and I think Shelly was there to kind of steer the ship while he was doing triple duty. Because I don't think Shelley was working on it in Chicago, was she?

[B]

Yeah, she was. She was co director in Chicago.

[A]

Crazy. There was no. I don't recall anyone talking about that at the time.

[B]

Yeah, because that was the big thing. Like she's got all these things in the works.

[A]

What else is Shelly working on?

[B]

She's doing Aida somewhere. Germany.

[A]

Netherlands.

[B]

Right. This is the Netherlands. Sure.

[A]

Netherlands even.

[B]

You know, when I think of Egypt, I think of the Netherlands.

[A]

Yep. Well, I guess that's a place for them to try it out. Similar with Casey and Hercules in London.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And Jerry Mitchell doing Devil's Prada.

[B]

So he's not just doing that over there. He's doing becoming Nancy over there. At the same time.

[A]

At the same time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Craziness. I know.

[B]

That's what I mean. Like.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I think Devil Rose Prada starts soon, doesn't it?

[B]

Yes. Which is weird, because part of the problem of Devil Wears Prada was that none of the creative team was around.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Shayna was doing stuffs off Broadway. Elton John was touring. Like, they were literally writing by email.

[A]

They were.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And Kate Weatherhead was the only one in Chicago with it.

[B]

Yes. And, like, the director had never done a musical. The choreographer had never done a musical, so there was nobody, like, who knew how to build something and steer the ship. Jerry is the right person for that. But again, Shayna is doing stuffs and then ragtime. Oh, right. Yeah. And she's a busy gal. Yeah. Busy gal on the go.

[A]

If I don't want to put the cart before the horse. But if I do end up interviewing her on the podcast, I. I would like to ask her sort of how she's juggling all of that.

[B]

Like, yes, please.

[A]

What's the process of doing stuff? Rewriting Devil versus Prada, preparing for ragtime. Like, how does one do all of that?

[B]

Especially when you're not there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To make the changes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In real time.

[A]

It's helpful to be in the room when.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're making those changes. You got to see what's happening in real time.

[B]

Yeah. Wild.

[A]

It is wild. But Jerry will be done with both of those shows by the time Boop comes in.

[B]

Yeah. I think Boop is priority in that. That's his big, splashy Broadway musical.

[A]

And Boop has. I think it's been six months since Boop closed in Chicago.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Maybe not. So I'm sure they've been taking a lot all this time to do the rewrites, whatnot.

[B]

David Foster is probably rewriting while also.

[A]

Raising money for Smash and Trump. I just know that he's. I know, I know. We don't like to talk. We don't like to talk about Bruno, but, yeah, he's. He's a repub. Yikes. It's fine. It's fine.

[B]

Here's the thing. You can be a Republican. It's the MAGA Trumper section. Where exactly?

[A]

There. Listen, the Lincoln Project is one of my favorite things of all time, and those are Republicans who are like, we're just not voting for this dude.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm like, yeah, no, let's. I miss the days not to go off track. But I missed the days when politics was like, we have different ideas of what would make a good tax bracket. We have different ideas, like how to deal with Israel. I'm like, let's. I miss those conversations.

[B]

I just. Oh, God, I can't wait to not hear that man's name again.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Anyway.

[A]

Anyway. And I think it'll happen sooner than we would think. Is that great? But a name that's going to be on everybody's lips is Boopy. I'm. I am. It's been a minute since we've had a true Star Is Born moment on Broadway. Like a true blue.

[B]

Like a Kara Young.

[A]

I see Kara was a slow burn, though, because it was Clyde's into Cost of Living, into Pearly Victoria. So it was a. It was. Exactly. It's been getting the ball rolling. And I think right now, her Tony win is her check of like, okay, how are we gonna level you up from here? Because you can be one of our leading ladies of the stage.

[B]

So who do you think the last star is Born was?

[A]

Well, so here's the thing.

[B]

Other than Joy Wood singing My Days, which was the song of the summer.

[A]

Except that the Notebook didn't end up taking off. I would. Some would argue Jesse Mueller, but I think. Oh, yeah. But I think that's another case of the balls rolling. The balls rolling. I think. Beautiful was the culmination of a couple.

[B]

Of things, but she was everywhere for Clear Day.

[A]

Clear Day.

[B]

She. She was the Star is Born.

[A]

Yes. Except similar to Joy with Notebook, Clear Day didn't run.

[B]

No, it was every talk show.

[A]

I know, but Clear Day was one of those things where everyone who saw it was like, if, you know, you know, like, this girl's going places. And then she did into the woods in the park, she did Carousel at the Philharmonic, and she did Mystery of Evan Druid, and she replaced Kelly in Nice Work. So it was. It was. All of these things were happening. Everybody was like, she's gonna be big. She's gonna be big.

[B]

But she was. You know what I mean?

[A]

She was. She was building, and then Beautiful was like, she's here.

[B]

Every, like, every so often.

[A]

I'm thinking more of like a Sutton.

[B]

And Millie, where it was like a Kristen Chenoweth. Yeah, yeah, I hear you. But for me, Jesse would be that. Because, like, every night at 7 was, like fire. Like, that took off and, like, talk about a performance that, like, you can't listen to. There is no cast album of it, but we all know about it. Right. And that doesn't happen every day. She, like, everybody went, who is this girl?

[A]

No, I agree with you. I agree with you. All I'm saying is that if On a Clear Day had run twice as long, I think it. I think that genuinely would have been the Star Is Born. Instead, because it didn't run so long, she got the Tony nomination, which was them being like, we're putting money down on you because you're going to be something.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And she was able to parlay that into a lot of opportunities.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Beautiful was ultimately that thing.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Jasmine is similar to Sutton and Kristen in the sense of like, she hasn't had a part that would get her attention, but she's been working like she was Karen in the Mean Girls Tour, things like that. This is like, she's original. This is her first originating of a role.

[B]

Right.

[A]

She's the lead.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And here we go.

[B]

She'll be eligible for a Theater World Award.

[A]

I think she will. Yeah. This is Broadway debut. And it was the same thing with, you know, like Chenoweth had done New Brain, New Brain and Seal. Pierre.

[B]

Bonnie Milligan.

[A]

Yeah. Bonnie Milligan in Head Over Heels for me was similar to Jesse in On a Clear Day. But Bonnie, I think was a more.

[B]

Successful version of that because seven, eight.

[A]

Months, because it ran. But again, like, I think Bonnie and Jesse are the closest we've had in the last, like eight years.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

If their shows were more successful, they would be like the Sutton Cheno in Charlie Brown and Millie.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But that's also just the nature of Broadway. Like, we're not always creating the right vehicles for these amazing talents. But because they're amazing talents, something eventually will stick and they will take off.

[B]

Off.

[A]

Like Bonnie having Kimberly Akimbo.

[B]

Oh, you've heard of it.

[A]

Some have heard of that Tony winning musical. But like, for me, like, when that happened, I was like. Because I remember the talk of Bonnie getting nominated for Head Over Heels, I was like, if the show were still running. Yes. And also if they were like 15% better. And when Kimberly happened, I was like, not only is this her nomination, this is her win.

[B]

And I felt to her talents.

[A]

I was so much. And I was like, oh, God, I was so happy. I was so happy to be right about it too.

[B]

And she is on my album. Which you can stream now.

[A]

Yes, you can. Do you have an album? Robbie?

[B]

Thank you so much. I have a discography and I think.

[A]

On that note, we need to take one last break.

[B]

Billy, I beg to differ with you.

[A]

How do you mean? You're the top. Yeah. You're an arrow collar. You're the top. You're a Coolidge dollar. You're the nimble tread of the feet of Fred Astaire. And we're back. I think now's actually a good time. We haven't mentioned Swept Away much.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Which friend of the pod Will Van Dyke is working on?

[B]

I love him.

[A]

I've heard really lovely things about it at Arena. Everyone just wonders, like, will it sell? No one knows much about it, but.

[B]

The Everett Brothers musical.

[A]

And it's. I know. John Gallagher Jr. And Stark Sands are both in it. Both men I love.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, that's a strong American idiot connection.

[A]

Sure is.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Sure is, baby.

[B]

Yeah. I don't. I could not tell you what the plot of this is, but their artwork makes me want to see it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It does look a little bit like a. A dark folk album.

[A]

It's giving me a little bit Last Ship vibes just like whalers on a boat.

[B]

Yikes.

[A]

But I'm hoping that it's more energetic and freeing than that.

[B]

Sure. The last ship sails.

[A]

The last Ship sails. There are a couple of plays that I've just been reading about that look really cool. I've talked about this on a few other podcasts, but Eureka Day at Manhattan Theater Club. Manhattan Theater Club season. Outside of Old Friends I'm kind of down for because we have. Well, Hills of California is technically now a Manhattan Theater Club co production.

[B]

Sure. But I think that's to fill their season.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because they don't have anything for the first part of the fall. But I think around November. Yeah, November December is Eureka Day, which, with Jessica Hecht and Amber Gray and Bill Irwin and Tom Middleditch, it is, as directed by Ana De Shapiro. Have you heard about what this play is?

[B]

Nope. But good for Jessica Hecht.

[A]

She's keeping Manhattan Theater Club's lights on.

[B]

She truly is.

[A]

So Jessica Hecht, if you don't know, she is Susan, the lesbian that Ross's wife leaves him for on Friends. She's also Adam Godley's wife on Breaking Bad. Had she. She.

[B]

In my mind, she's a poor man's Christine Baranski. They have the same sort of quality.

[A]

I think she's actually a little more versatile than Christine Baranski is. She can't be as like Waspy cunt as Christine can be, but she is able to play different shades of other kind of people.

[B]

She's.

[A]

But she is really good at playing Chardonnay women in their pashminas having problems.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And she does it so well in theater club.

[B]

But.

[A]

Eureka. Dave, from everything I've read. From everything I've read, it is about a, like, I think elementary school or middle school that's kind of progressive, like, like a charter school sort of.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And they, like, there's something going on with, like, like the measles or there's some kind of virus going around. And they don't usually have mandates, but they're debating having a mandate about vaccines so, like, more kids don't get sick.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And they're trying to figure out if they're going to be a school that puts out mandates when, like, this has always been their thing is, like, we don't believe in rules, and everyone comes from different walks of life. And they're like, but our kids safety is now at hand.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if ever there was a play for Jessica Hecht to piss on the floor and mop it up with said pashmina, it is this one.

[B]

Do we know if she's pro or anti?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

I have a feeling that her character is pro vaccine and trying really hard not to be judgmental of people who are anti.

[B]

Oh, I.

[A]

If I were to guess.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But maybe that's Amber Gray's character and Jessica Hecht is the one who comes in who's like, I don't want my child getting a vaccine because I don't want them to grow up to become gay.

[B]

Jessica Hecht just giving Marjorie Taylor Greene.

[A]

Truly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Of the Upper west side.

[B]

Yes. I mean, Manhattan Theater Club, Roundabout for Jews. Can't wait.

[A]

Did you just come up with that?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Robbie, that was great. Everything you've ever written down is garbage compared to that statement you just said. Manhattan Theater Club, Roundabout for juice.

[B]

Yeah. Put it on a T shirt.

[A]

Put it on a fucking T shirt. I love that.

[B]

That.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

Yeah. But that sounds like a cool one to me. And then I know that.

[B]

Yeah, I'd like to see it.

[A]

And Second Stage has some interesting stuff happening. They've got Cult of Love, which is basically a family with all walks of political life having a terrible, terrible holiday.

[B]

I feel like this season's gonna be, like, awful in terms of politics.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, because. Well, the world tbd.

[A]

Because I think it's one of those things where if you can make it palatable, great. But if. But I talked about this before in the pitch deck for my play, but I find too many modern plays wear their importance on their sleeve.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And the only way you're going to really get an audience to absorb what you're telling them is to not tell them. To make it an engaging, almost entertainment with a message, you know, at the center of it.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Those are the. Honestly, the best things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But when you. When you're, like, making it almost homework. Yeah. Like, it can stimulate your brain, it can make you think, but you're not feeling and you don't really have conversations afterwards.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It just becomes, well, I did my due diligence and who wants that? And I don't think any playwright necessarily wants that to be the case.

[B]

No.

[A]

Too many people are unaware of just how. Not pandering, but, like.

[B]

Disaffected we are.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And cold.

[B]

Not me. Couldn't be me.

[A]

You're. You've got a nice little warm bottle.

[B]

So warm.

[A]

You're so warm. Then also warm. He's warm today. But then also Brendan Jacobs. Jacobs Jenkins has a new play, Purpose at Second Stage this year, directed by Felicia Rasad.

[B]

Great.

[A]

And I don't. I know nothing about her.

[B]

Claire Huxtable.

[A]

Claire Huxtable. She's directing, not starring.

[B]

Yeah. She's made a transition.

[A]

She has.

[B]

Late in life, apparently.

[A]

She did a very good job with Ma Rainey's Black Bottom at Mark's. Hate perform.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A year or two ago, my dad saw that with Lillias White. He said it was good, but. So we also have a couple of rumors coming in. Glengarry. Glengarry again? Glengarry Glen Ross has no theater named yet, which is fine by me. Me, the more I pretend that revival isn't happening, the better. I know. I'm just like, can we not with Mamet for a while?

[B]

Sure. Here's the problem. Mamet, for 20 years, I want to say, was the dominant drama writer in America. And you cannot push that. Like, you can't ignore them.

[A]

I'm not trying to ignore it.

[B]

No, no. But a lot of people like his. His plays at that time were excellent. And to see a first class production of it, great. Because there hasn't been one since. What, Pacino did it?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

At the St. James.

[A]

No, I think it was at the Schoenfeld.

[B]

Was that the Schoenfeld?

[A]

Yeah, I think so.

[B]

Great.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Everything I say is fact.

[A]

Manhattan Theater Club slogan is we're roundabout for juice.

[B]

Roundabout for juice. That's gonna be clipped out somewhere. I can already tell it's gonna go. I'm gonna be canceled.

[A]

The Discord has a channel of, like, merch. Yeah. Of merch. Ideas and so just, you know, put down quotes you love and, you know, we'll see which ones will put them on a. On a T shirt. I think that's the one that can go on a T shirt. Manhattan Theater Club, Roundabout for Jews.

[B]

Wonderful. So I like. I have no problem with. Much like Pinter. Like, sure, we. We should see the great works of this playwright. At least it's not the Anarchist.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

The Old Neighborhood for me, Mamet, it's. It's the three plays. It's American Buffalo, Glengarry, Glen Ross, and Speed the Plow.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I think that Glengarry is probably the best of the three. I think the movie of Glengarry is actually better than the play.

[B]

Yeah, I agree.

[A]

And no one. You can't do what they do in the movie because they add Alec Baldwin's character. Everyone quotes Coffee's for Closers. That's not in the play.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's in the movie. So I'm interested. I'm more. I guess I'm interested a little bit, but I. I'm more of like, I want to watch it.

[B]

And who's announced for this?

[A]

It's Kieran Culkin.

[B]

Yeah. Great.

[A]

And other people and more. And. And. And others. Sometimes Kieran Culkin and others.

[B]

Sometimes you're the thumbnail. Sometimes you're. And others you are.

[A]

And we. And again, talk of fucking Dorian Gray. As of right now, the theaters that are open for the spring are the Booth.

[B]

Sure. The Story and Gray could go into easily, which would absolutely.

[A]

The Schoenfeld, but I. The rumor is that Buena Vista Social Club is going in there.

[B]

Great.

[A]

Which they have not announced yet, but from everyone I know involved, they are coming.

[B]

They're doing cast soon and stuff, so. Yes.

[A]

And Dead Outlaw is also planning on coming in.

[B]

Good.

[A]

Yeah. As well they should.

[B]

More David Yazbek.

[A]

Always more David Yazbek, please. It's.

[B]

That man is probably the best musical comedy writer that we've had in 20 years.

[A]

He's our best lyricist right now.

[B]

Hands down.

[A]

Hands down.

[B]

Yeah. Steve's dead.

[A]

Because Steve's dead. Tesori is our. Is our. In my opinion, our best and most versatile composer right now. And I think Yazbek is our best lyricist.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

He's also incredibly versatile as a composer.

[B]

Yes. But he writes musical comedy songs.

[A]

He really does.

[B]

And there. People aren't doing that so good. Great.

[A]

He's. Yeah, he's great.

[B]

I heard wonderful things about Dead Outlaws.

[A]

Dead Outlaw was really, really lovely. I enjoyed it a great deal. There's certain Shows have not announced yet, but, like, the clock is running, is running out on Water for Elephants, on Back to the Future, on Suffs. Honestly. And I can see a world where those theaters are open come spring. There are a couple of shows that are coming in the fall that could probably be open in the spring, like the James Earl Jones for left on 10th, like the Belasco for maybe Happy Ending, unless it does end up selling really well.

[B]

But.

[A]

But who the fuck knows? Who knows what's going to happen with Swept Away? The Longacre could end up being available. And should those happen, Like, I can see Dead Outlaw going into the Longacre. I can see it going into the James Earl Jones. The rumor, I was told, and I'm only going to. I'm going to emphasize this again, rumor is that Good Night and Good Luck wants the Winter Garden theater and that Smash wants the Imperial.

[B]

Huh? Yeah, I knew about Smash.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The.

[A]

The rumor is that George Clooney is very in love with the Winter Garden. He's also in love with the marquee. They're very confident that he can sell out that theater. Of course, I would assume that it's then actually a slightly larger production than we realize. And the truth is, like, Back to the Future is kind of on its way out. And I'll talk more about that in the Grosses episode when we discuss sort of what that means.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But yeah, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that we're a year and a half into Back to the Future. They're no longer grossing a million dollars, and that show costs a million dollars a week to run.

[B]

Right. You gotta pay for that car.

[A]

Yeah, you absolutely do. And even if the producers don't want to close, if they go below their nut.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Two weeks in a row, which they actually have.

[B]

Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice.

[A]

Beetlejuice, exactly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And. And if Clooney can sell out the Winter Garden for three and a half months.

[B]

Are you kidding? Here we go. It's network all over again.

[A]

Apps a looney Baby.

[B]

And frankly, like, that is a play I want to see. I want to see how it adapts, specifically with George in it again and adapting it. I guess that's intriguing, directing it.

[A]

Oh, I think so.

[B]

Well, that makes it even more interesting.

[A]

Especially if Cromer then also has Dead Outlaw again. Talk about directors having two shows in the same season.

[B]

Yeah. Strowman's got smashed wildly different ones. Smash.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What? What do you think?

[A]

I don't know. And also another Bob Martin show, because he'll have Smash and Blooper on the same time. Smash may end up not coming in the spring. I know that that's their plan. I know that they've kind of done a soft announcement for it.

[B]

Yeah. Their investment packets are out.

[A]

Yeah, they. They want it. They wanted to do it. I think they feel very confident from their workshop. The word I got from the workshop was half and half.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Some people were like, I don't know what I saw. All I know is that I want to see it again. And then I have other people who are like, to me, it was a mess and a half of like, their. Every time they did a song from the TV show, people were living and they had good actors in it. And like, Stroman can choreograph. So, like, huh. I know, right? Hot take. But it was sort of, you know, the book was kind of a mess of genres and they didn't really know what they wanted it to be. Is this a send up of this TV show while also being its own story? Does it want an actual. A serious indictment of the entertainment industry? Because they make like some hard artistic choices with Robin Herder's character that just.

[B]

She. Is she playing Ivy?

[A]

She's playing. Yes. She's playing their. Their version of Ivy, which is so.

[B]

Weird because Megan Hilty is on Broadway the same season.

[A]

I know, right?

[B]

Huh. I just don't. I hate watch Smash like we all did.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Back in the day. A lot of the songs are bangers.

[A]

A lot of great songs.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. No human can sing them all back to back to back to back. But I do not know how they've rewritten this. I did not get into the workshop, so I don't know.

[A]

The word is that it is them doing a Marilyn Monroe musical. And. But like, you know, all the stuff about the adopting a baby for Julia is gone and the Karen Ivey feud doesn't exist anymore. And in fact, I believe Karen is not even really a character anymore.

[B]

How do you do Smash and not have that?

[A]

Well, there is still the who's gonna be Marilyn, but it's no longer Karen. It's another character from the workshop.

[B]

Huh.

[A]

It is. If what I was told is correct, Robin Herder's character is Ivy, who is the lead of this musical, but she's also very troubled. Has.

[B]

Has a prednisoned addiction.

[A]

Yeah. Has her prednisone addiction.

[B]

Heaven can wait.

[A]

But then. But then ends up ODing. Oh, and they have to throw someone on in the track at the last minute for this, like, workshop of Smash or whatever. And they go with either like the stage manager or associate director, whoever. No, it's. It's some other gal, but, yeah, that kind of role.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And who ends up like. Like killing it. And it becomes a Star is born moment. But the thing everyone's talking about is, like, you can do such a hard left with Robin Herder's character and expect us to recover from it. Either you go so campy, like, death becomes her. Where we laugh at the idea that this crazy character is dead. Or we're supposed to feel. But that's. But then we're supposed to recover from it immediately and go into the next thing. Again, this is all conjecture. I haven't seen it. I don't know how it lands. This is all what I was reported on from the workshop. And again, this is the reason why people were like, I don't know what I saw, but I want to see it again.

[B]

The Social team has been, like, putting out clips and stuff like crazy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I have a feeling it will be here in the spring.

[A]

And if it is, that throws a whole amount of chaos into musical, into actress, if they get their act together. Whether it maybe just lands with actual sets and costumes now. And it's on the Imperial Stage, not the Danny K Theater at Act Hunter College, a stage I, too, have performed on. And I did not go to Hunter. I was there for a professional gig. But it's. Yeah, it's musical is wild. There's.

[B]

Oh, we didn't even talk about Tammy Faye.

[A]

Not really. I don't know what to say about Tammy. I don't know anything about it.

[B]

Elton John wrote it with Jake Shears, I guess. Of the Scissor Sisters. Of the Scissor Sisters. And Andrew Rannells with Drew. He did, because they announced him before he had signed a contract.

[A]

They sure did. James Griffin Graham, who wrote Ink and the book for Finding Neverland, wrote the book for this. But there's no Harvey Weinstein behind the scenes to bastardize. Whatever.

[B]

But also, like, Christian Borrell.

[A]

Christian Borle, Michael Cerverus.

[B]

Oh, I mean, come on.

[A]

Absolutely. No, it's a great.

[B]

Could be a blast.

[A]

Autumn Hurlburt.

[B]

Oh, I love her.

[A]

Of Legally Blonde search for Elwoods fame is the alternate Tammy Faye Baker. Yeah, we know a little something about her now, don't we?

[B]

We sure do. Do you want to tell why?

[A]

Do we want to announce it or do we want to tease it?

[B]

We can tease it.

[A]

Yeah, because I don't know. Nothing's been official yet.

[B]

Yeah, maybe we're talking about Legally Blonde.

[A]

Yeah, maybe a little bit.

[B]

Maybe. Maybe we hooked up some microphones and.

[A]

Talked about it for a little bit.

[B]

For a few hours.

[A]

Yeah. And are talking about it again in two days.

[B]

That's correct.

[A]

Two days from now, anyway.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I enjoy talking about theater with you in general. So it's always fun.

[A]

We're putting together a roster of content that maybe the name Autumn is referred to a few times.

[B]

Featured heavily.

[A]

Yeah. Let's say that Selena Carver Carvajal. Yes.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Bailey Hanks.

[B]

Oh, she's somebody.

[A]

She sure is.

[B]

I love Autumn. I'm thrilled that. So this new trend of, like, the alternate, like Sunset Boulevards. Guest star.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Mandy Gonzalez and then standby Carolyn Bowman. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because just like to Donna Murphy, like, she wasn't the understudy about Midler. She did her Tuesdays and went home. Exactly. And Linda Muggleston was the understudy. She went on once.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Kate Baldwin held up her phone to the speaker in her dressing room and to send me before the parade passes.

[A]

By, which I'm sure was great.

[B]

Yeah. Come on.

[A]

I saw. I saw Linda go on for Donna in Wonderful Town.

[B]

Oh, I did, too. Several times.

[A]

Many, many.

[B]

Did Many.

[A]

But she was for. You know, I like this. I like this new trend of really specializing the casting of the alternate and making it as much of an event as.

[B]

And also acknowledging we're writing these shows that are not singable eight times a week, so we have to take care of our actors. Yeah, I think that's smart. I don't know if she had an alternate in the West End or not, or if she decided it's too hard to do eight a week.

[A]

I think it might have been combo that by doing it eight times a week in. In London, she realized I can't do sustainable. And it was a short enough run in London that she could get through it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But she's like, if you want me to commit to a year, I need an alternate. Yeah, absolutely. Fair.

[B]

Great.

[A]

Interesting enough. That's actually what happened with Elaine Paige and Evita.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Elaine Paige did not have an alternate when she started Evita.

[B]

That's why she sounds the way she does on that cast album. They all.

[A]

They all genuinely thought she could do it eight times a week. No problema.

[B]

Blasts.

[A]

Yep. And eventually things happened and they're like, okay, we're getting you an alternate.

[B]

That's when nodes were invented.

[A]

It's true. Well, no. No one sang. No one other than Melba Moore sang above a D on Broadway.

[B]

Well, until that moment. Eileen Graff, that one time.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But that was love Revolution.

[A]

That was a queef gone wrong.

[B]

Yeah. I'm intrigued to see what it is. I don't know what it is. I feel like they maybe should create a best alternate. Tony.

[A]

Well, now that it's becoming more regular.

[B]

Would that be fun?

[A]

That would be a good one for this year.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Cuz you got Tammy Faye, we got Shun. I wonder if Audrey is going to eventually get an alternate or if.

[B]

Oh, we were talking about, like, who should her standby be? Cuz that's hard. It is hard because you need somebody who's like a name and people are excited.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That this person's going on, but also, like, somebody with two Tony Awards isn't gonna do it.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Unless it's Tanya Pinkins.

[A]

Yeah. Well, Tanya does like to work with George, but Tanya's also kind of over Broadway these days. Good for her. She's. She's like, y' all burned me too many times.

[B]

And who's not?

[A]

What if that's. It's Phylicia Rashad.

[B]

Yep. Just her one a week. And she just says Claire Huxtable takes in Small World. I just Woody Woodpeckered. I don't even know what's happening, guys. I'm delirious.

[A]

It's been a long week, everybody.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But we're pulling through.

[B]

We sure are.

[A]

So, final takeaways of this season. Top three shows you're most looking forward to seeing.

[B]

Gypsy. Can't wait. I just. I think it's going to be special. Floyd Collins and I think Our Town, because again, it's a play. It is a blinder for me. And so I'm interested. And I think Kenny Leon brings something to these classics like A breath of Air. And so I'm. I'm excited to see those if I.

[A]

Can get a ticket for it. I am very eager to see Othello.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I think that, first of all, I think that Denzel and Kenny are a very good team. They do good work together. I am very hot and cold on Jake Gyllenhaal, but I think this is actually perfect casting for him. I don't think Jake Gyllenhaal is an endearing presence. I think he's much better at playing broken or hateful people.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And so, like in Brokeback Mountain, he's.

[B]

Weird that you stared at me when you said that. Broken and hateful right into your eyes. I felt that.

[A]

I felt that in my soul.

[B]

It hurts.

[A]

It hurts in my Our town. But in my Grover's Corners. Also, every time I say Grover's Corners, I can only think of Robin Williams in the Birdcage. I can take her all around the world, but she's still that little girl. Girl from Grover's Corners.

[B]

Yep. Oh, God. I'm gonna find you the demos of that. I think Liz sent them to me.

[A]

Please do.

[B]

Yeah. But, yeah, I think.

[A]

I think Jake Gyllenhaal as Iago is actually really great, great casting. So I'm excited for that if Picture of Dorian Gray it does officially come in. Excited to see that. I heard really cool things about that. Yeah. Gypsy. Gypsy Death becomes her.

[B]

Death becomes her Shit.

[A]

But Gypsy Death becomes her are two shows for me this season where I just sit there, go. Please don't break my heart.

[B]

Can I tell you, last season, I don't think was a good season for musicals.

[A]

It was not.

[B]

It has had. There were too many, but none of them were outstanding. This season could reverse that.

[A]

I sure hope.

[B]

I really hope that, like, the gas leak is done and we're just doing these, like, great shows that have the proper rewriting and learning things out of town. Right.

[A]

Yeah. Remember when we used to go out of town and learn what to change.

[B]

When back in my day, we went all the way to. We opened in Venice and next played Veron, then on to Patrona.

[A]

Lots of dough in Ramona.

[B]

Yes. Oh, I saw that when I was in London. And Bart Sheer directed that Kiss Me Kate.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Stephanie J Block. She was excellent.

[A]

How is Bart's direction?

[B]

Great.

[A]

Great.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Show that I really vibe with him on because it's. I don't. I don't think of Bart for comedy much.

[B]

Sure, this was funny, but Stephanie's funny.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And, yeah, she's a kooky gal. And also, like the uk, they like to mug, so.

[A]

Which is very much what you need in that show.

[B]

And the gangsters were.

[A]

Please tell me that Stephanie did I Hate Men like an actual comedy song.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Fan tastic.

[B]

Yeah. It was not a TED Talk.

[A]

Like, correct. Like the most recent.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. Roundabout.

[B]

Wildly unfunny Manhattan theater club for WASPs.

[A]

Roundabout.

[B]

That's not as good.

[A]

It's not as good. I. I repurposed it. I inverted one of the good. It's fine. It's fine. Yeah. The way I always describe that roundabout Kiss Me Kate is because it did also kind of follow the mold of the 99 Kiss Me Kate, but not as well.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But I said if the Kiss Me Kate costumes in 1999 were, like, purple and blue and red. Like, they were deep colors. And then at the revival, it was, like, mauve.

[B]

Yeah. It was like robin's egg. Hello Dolly on the West End.

[A]

And they, like, all the colors were just washed out. It was the lighter version of everything. And I was so bored.

[B]

Dark and sad.

[A]

Dark and sad. Lots of Joe and Grimona. Yeah. I'm hopeful. I want. I don't want these shows to break my heart. Redwood is a giant question mark for me because all the word out of town was kind of mixed, but it's just coming on in.

[B]

She's gonna sell tickets.

[A]

Of course she is. And she's in our home theater.

[B]

God. Do you remember when if Then had a huge marquee outside of above the Toys R Us or whatever that just said, be there when a star becomes a legend?

[A]

I don't remember that.

[B]

That was their, like, marketing campaign, and I was like, how about just be there when a star sings a song?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, if Then isn't gonna make you a legend. I don't know what to tell you, baby.

[A]

Yeah. Well, they also. They got very lucky with John Travolta saying Adele Dazeem earlier that year, because if Then was selling a little bit with Adina stuff, but. But it really sold when the Delta Zim happened. And then after the Tonys when they won nothing, and she did her little bit of if. We're always starting over.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Then everybody kind of died off on it, and they're like, oh, right. It's just sliding doors with glasses.

[B]

Same, same.

[A]

Whereas Gwyneth Paltrow changes her hair, Idina Menzel wears glasses.

[B]

You got to tell them apart somehow.

[A]

Yeah, but I do. Like a turntable.

[B]

Great.

[A]

I remember. Wait. Okay. I just got to say this one thing, and then we'll close it out. Speaking of Broadway worlds and crazy people and QAnon theories and people just being fucking dumb. So Hamilton famously went into the Richard Rogers Theater after if Then.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Never heard of it. But Hamilton had a turntable, and someone went to go see Hamilton, like, six months into the run and wrote on Broadway World. Did they have the turntable Be as an homage to if Then? Because it was the same theater.

[B]

Oh, my God. And someone open the schools.

[A]

I know.

[B]

I.

[A]

Sometimes people need to get vaccinated, Robbie.

[B]

Open the schools, Open the gates.

[A]

I just. Some people actually get a thrill. Some people actually have things to say. Some people have strong opinions and a critical eye, and some people just have access to the Internet.

[B]

Yeah, people have things to say. It's just not always smart.

[A]

No. No. Some people should just See shows and enjoy them and never comment on them because, my God, when you open your mouth, I just. Just to quote Domothy Cavanu, which hand do I slap you with?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Domothee Kavanaugh.

[B]

This has been a delight.

[A]

This has been Broadway beyond the dip. This has been a delight. Robbie, thank you so much for coming on.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

I don't know if we've covered everything to people's delight or what, but I'm happy with what we got.

[B]

Why don't I come up, come back like halfway through the season and we can reassess.

[A]

Absolutely. I think what we will do. Let's do a New Year's reassignment Discord.

[B]

Are you good with that?

[A]

We'll ask the discord. See if they have anything to say about it.

[B]

Do you all hate me?

[A]

They do all hate you.

[B]

That makes sense.

[A]

Every time Robbie Rizal comes on the podcast, you get on topic.

[B]

Zeros of listens. Right? That's so wild.

[A]

Negative, actually. They take away my listens from other episodes.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Craziness.

[B]

I'm famous for that.

[A]

Yes, you are famous for that.

[B]

Quarters.

[A]

In some French quarters. Robbie. Where can people find you if you want them to find?

[B]

Thank you so much. I am Diva Robbie on all platforms because of branding. And you can stream my wonderful discography on Spotify, please, because I'd like to get some guacamole.

[A]

We would love to get some guacamole on that. On that chipotle burrito.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you want to follow me, I'm on Instagram at Matt Koplik, usual spelling. If you like the podcast, give us a nice five star rating, please. Five? We just cracked 250. We're at 251.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Fantastic. Definitely. We're. Things are looking up for good old Broadway Breakdown.

[B]

It's about time.

[A]

No new reviews since the last one, but that's okay. I know people get very self conscious about writing reviews because honestly, whenever people do write reviews, they fucking kill it. So anyone is like, I don't know if I should, like, I'll not kill it as much.

[B]

And you're so smart that like, that scares other people.

[A]

I don't think I'm smart. I'm crazy.

[B]

Two things can be true.

[A]

This is true.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Jessica Hecht can be both a Jew and a WASP in anyone had theater club production.

[B]

She. She chooses to do all of them. Judith Light is probably in this somewhere. Just in a corner.

[A]

Judith Light, the only woman who is clearly, clearly a Catholic and has played a Jew more than once on Stage. And we're all just fine with it.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Because she's Judith Light.

[B]

She's Judith Light.

[A]

Back to back. Tony's that's who's going to be Audra Standpoint Gypsy. And we're all going to be fine with it.

[B]

Kind of not. Not mad at it. Although this is a show about race, so. But.

[A]

And again, we're all going to be fine with it.

[B]

Watch it be Lashan.

[A]

Yeah, Well, I think perhaps the idea of whoever will be the standby is just like, hey, like, Audra is going to call out at least once.

[B]

You will go on.

[A]

Yeah. So, like, what would it. What's. Would it give you a thrill to be Mama Rose on Broadway every now and then?

[B]

Yeah. One every 15 shows.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, wouldn't that be nice? And that's what. That's what got Anika Nani Rose back into a musical. And that's the story of how I met your mother, Anika Nani Rose.

[B]

Bye.

[A]

Bye. Yeah, anyway, yeah, five. Five stars on the podcast would be great. Join the Discord Channel if you'd like, as we're about to start up on the new series Grab Bag. And if you have questions or topics you want us to cover, that is the only way we're going to be able to find out about any of them.

[B]

That's why I joined.

[A]

Yes, that is why you joined. Robbie, what diva do you want to close us out with today?

[B]

Oh, you mentioned Marin earlier. So I want Marin. Maisie.

[A]

I love Marin Maisie.

[B]

I love her.

[A]

Marin Maisie. Three time Tony nominee for Kiss Megate.

[B]

Passion and a Tony Award honoree.

[A]

Oh, she really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's amazing.

[B]

Post homose. Posthumously. Posthumously, Yeah. I thought you were saying post humor.

[A]

I thought you say post homosexually.

[B]

Yeah. Well, no, after she died, she should.

[A]

Have gotten a special Tony for that interview she did with Seth Radetzky where she talked about passion and the bengay that Jerry Shea had had on him that got on her crotch during happiness. And she ran around backstage screaming, pussy on fire. Girlfriend was a broad and a half.

[B]

That's just Glenn Close.

[A]

What's Glenn Close?

[B]

I can smell you nappy pussy from that new movie she's in.

[A]

Oh, right, right, right.

[B]

That clip is making the rounds. It's a film.

[A]

It is a film. Anyway, that was Glenn Close going, I'm going to honor the great dame Marin Mazzie.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

This line isn't even in the script. I'm gonna say it.

[B]

Pussy on fire. Pussy on fire.

[A]

God, I love her. I love her so much.

[B]

There we are.

[A]

We're gonna. Yeah, we'll close out with Maren doing. Actually, we haven't closed out with her doing Kiss Me Kate. It's always been ragtime. So we'll do Kiss Me Kate.

[B]

Great.

[A]

Perfect. Perfect. All right, so catch us back next week, guys, when we do the Broadway Grosses.

[B]

Yeah, Learn some something.

[A]

Learn something for once. A book. Read a goddamn book. Stop going on Broadway rolls and talking about goddamn turntables for once in your life.

[B]

Life.

[A]

Yeah. Go see Our Town. Robbie one cultured.

[B]

You know, I think there's a turntable in our town, and it's actually for if then Anthony Rapp is just doing a slow circle.

[A]

Anthony Rapp's not even in the show. He just hasn't left the event turntable. And they put it in the Barrymore, and he's just there eart collecting a paycheck. He's like, I need health weeks, baby.

[B]

Well, this has been a joy and a blessing.

[A]

It's been a joy. Okay, catch us back next week. Take it away, Marin. Bye. The traveling salesman attempting Tom he may be from China he will bring you jade and perfume from a rabie but don't forget Tis he who'll have the fun and the the baby Be all if thou should some what a businessman Be wary, all be wary he'll tell you he's detained in town on business.