Broadway Breakdown: THE GREAT GATSBY, SUFFS and Some Broadway Bullsh*t
Host: Matt Koplik
Date: April 18, 2024
Episode Overview
Matt Koplik, famously passionate and snarky theater podcaster, flies solo this episode for a marathon tour through three current Broadway shows: Patriots, Suffs, and The Great Gatsby. In true Koplik style—equal parts witty, foul-mouthed, and whip-smart—he serves up frank reviews, predictions for the Tony Awards, and a blistering takedown of recent Broadway-related internet discourse.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Patriots — The British Import
[06:15 – 25:35]
- Background & Creative Team:
- Written by Peter Morgan (Frost/Nixon, The Crown, “The Other Boleyn Girl is, how you say, hot garbage.” [02:50])
- Directed by Rupert Goold—“very inventive director…very vibrant with his, you know, palette.” [03:30]
- Plot (Russian history & power):
- Chronicles the rise of Vladimir Putin, told via oligarch Boris Berezovsky.
- “Up until now [Boris] has done pretty much everything right…everyone owes him a million favors…Putin included. And we watch in his eyes, Russia begin to crumble.” [05:45]
- Matt’s Review:
- Smart, cold, cerebral, emotionally distancing: “I have been engaged, I have been mentally stimulated, I’ve been visually stimulated, but I’ve never been emotionally involved.” [09:08]
- “It very much felt like the British import a lot of people…were concerned it would be.” [10:25]
- Performance Highlights:
- Michael Stuhlbarg (as Boris): “Absolutely phenomenal…going to give Jeremy Strong in An Enemy of the People a run for his money.” [13:17]
- Will Keen (as Putin): Impactful but more likely to compete in featured actor.
- Tony Predictions:
- Best Play, possibly acting, direction, set & lighting noms: “They’ll probably get in for direction…set and lighting design, and that’s probably it.” [18:53]
- Notable Quote:
“I always lead with emotion over intellect. I would love it if there was something emotionally engaging…using its intelligence for emotions and for dumb.” [10:53]
2. Suffs — Shaina Taub’s Suffragist Musical
[25:36 – 1:13:00]
- Background & Personal Ties:
- Written by and starring Shaina Taub (“She was just one of the most talented…kindest people I knew [at Stage Door Manor].” [27:48])
- Off-Broadway Reception & Rewrite:
- “Word downtown was very, very mixed…some thought it fantastic, some thought it absolutely awful...people…would say it's insufferable.” [33:11]
- Current Broadway Take:
- Matt: “I was pleasantly surprised. I did not love the show…I did like it and I do recommend it. My number one takeaway from Suffs is…the score is really good.” [34:24]
- Lyrics best when cheeky; show is still “a little self-important” and at times “pandering.” [35:15]
- Critiquing the Show’s Politics & Audience:
- Discomfort with “whooping” audiences:
“There were many people around me who had absolutely no problem whooping…for anything they heard that sounded like a political statement…It makes it all of a sudden a concert…not worse than a concert…you watch a MAGA rally.” [36:59]
- Discomfort with “whooping” audiences:
- Book & Structure:
- Explores early 1900s suffragist movement, conflict across different suffragists.
- Wishes the show focused more on the triangle between characters played by Taub, Nikki M. James, and Jenn Colella:
“I would have loved it if the whole show focused as a triangle…where each one is sort of an antagonist to the other...That’s not ever really done.” [44:38]
- Spread thin: “When you try to cover so much, you don’t cover a lot very well.” [47:05]
- Moments and Themes:
- Touches on burnout, leadership, and the costs of activism, but “addresses” more than it “explores.” [54:29]
- Production Design & Direction:
- Set “feels a little cheap” but costumes “quite nice.” Staging “a little mixed…Not a lot of, necessarily, striking imagery.” [57:33]
- Performances:
- Praise for Jenn Colella, Nikki M. James, and standout Allie Bonino; Emily Skinner “does not have nearly enough to do.” [1:00:45]
- Tony/Media Predictions:
- “This will be a major nomination contender…There has really been nothing this season on the musical front that both the critics and the community have gotten behind.” [1:04:25]
- Notable Quotes:
“If you are someone who goes to see Suffs and you cheer for Jenn Colella but not Emily Skinner, then you do not deserve to celebrate Pride this year.” [1:01:03]
“To quote Ron Swanson: Don't half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing.” [49:40]
3. The Great Gatsby — Mega-Musical Adaptation
[1:13:01 – 1:46:10]
- Background:
- This adaptation (notably separate from another forthcoming version), rushed to Broadway from Papermill Playhouse.
- “Moving to Broadway…has nothing to do with whether you think the show is ready…sometimes it’s just about beating someone else to the punch.” [1:14:09]
- The Challenge of Adapting Gatsby:
- Prior film/stage adaptations typically unsuccessful.
- “It has been a notorious book for being so difficult to adapt…because so many of the characters…do not have an inner life and…are liars.” [1:15:38]
- Plot & Character Overview:
- Matt summarizes the plot, focusing on the corrosiveness of wealth and the hollowness behind the “American Dream.”
- Musical’s Interpretation:
- “The Broadway musical of The Great Gatsby does away with all of this…wants us to believe that everybody is actually much deeper than you would believe…It just feels very shoved in.” [1:19:25]
- Score & Lyrics:
- “This score is bad. It is bad. There are indeed big melodies…Jeremy Jordan sings the name ‘Daisy’ multiple times on a big long sustained note. But ‘Daisy’ is not a poetic name to sing on a sustained note.” [1:21:20]
- Example of bad lyric:
“Myrtle Wilson finds out she’s pregnant…She has a line where she says, ‘Though I may not be showing, there’s a baby growing.’ Kill that lyric with fire.” [1:23:09]
- Production Values:
- Big cast, projections-heavy, “surprisingly heavy on projections…very intricate projections, but they are projections…”
- Underwhelming direction: “It honestly just feels like [the cast]…are left out to sea to figure out their characters on this massive stage with no direction, with no material.” [1:24:10]
- Intent/Tone Mismatch:
- Show tries to give a triumphant ending—“Nick is disillusioned with everything…yet when he thinks back on Gatsby…the ensemble comes back out to do a reprise…It exists solely to put the audience out on a high.” [1:31:16]
- On Audience & Critics:
- “You watch Gatsby and part of you goes, this is the version of a Great Gatsby musical that people who don’t like musicals imagine.” [1:29:38]
- Notes defensiveness of fans:
“I love it though, when people say things like, ‘get off your high horse, don’t analyze it to death, just go along for the ride.’…I’ve said that myself about certain shows—but I’ve said that about shows that do the work for you, that know what they are, stick to it, and never fall out of line.” [1:30:13]
4. Broadway Discourse & Lempicka Controversy
[1:46:11 – End (~2:17:00)]
- Setting the Stage:
- Matt recounts the heated online defense of Lempicka in the wake of poor reviews, and the tendency for artists/audiences to attack critics.
- “The response from the theater community has honestly been embarrassing.” [1:46:42]
- Critics vs. ‘Supportive’ Audiences:
- Conflating critique with personal attack; notes that “every Broadway person you have seen this week…who has shared that video of Matt Gould…have DM’ed me about Lempicka and were not kind. In fact, were probably meaner than the reviews you read.” [1:50:15]
- On Art, Criticism, and Growth:
- “If you like everything you see, you don’t actually have taste. You just have no taste buds. Everything tastes like yogurt to you.” [1:48:54]
- Calling Out the Logic:
- Debunks accusation that critics dislike Lempicka due to queerness or BIPOC themes (“slap in the face to all of the artists who are bipoc, queer, female, what have you, who have all had their work praised in the past.” [1:59:12])
- Rejects “original always better” reasoning and notes that praise and criticism have to matter equally.
- Personal Experience:
- Matt shares his own experiences being reviewed, sometimes harshly, both as a podcaster (“you have to brave the sound of his voice”) and as an actor (“his averageness worked”).
- “If I think there’s some merit to something someone’s saying… I’ll absorb it. If I think that it’s their problem and I have no flaws, that makes me a narcissist worthy of running somebody over in The Great Gatsby and getting away with it.” [2:05:08]
- Final Thoughts — The Need for Critical Discourse:
- Warns against intellectual stagnation and “fetishizing pleasantness.”
- “If you only want to shield yourself from dissenting opinions, how is that any different than President 45?” [2:13:30]
- “You need pushback. Even if you disagree, you need pushback.” [2:14:25]
Memorable Quotes & Moments
- On Emotion vs. Intellect:
“I always lead with emotion over intellect. You know, I would love it if there was something emotionally engaging but very…well structured, uses its intelligence for emotions and for dumb.” [10:49]
- On Audiences & Political Theater:
“There were times when I was like, I don’t see the difference between what’s happening right now and a MAGA rally. Outside of the politics themselves, obviously.” [37:23]
- On Critical Discourse:
“If art is only for the artist, then why make it at all? Why put it out there?…Once it’s out there, it no longer belongs to you.” [2:02:15]
- On Thin-Skinned Defensiveness:
“If you can only make art when you’re being praised, then you are not an artist. That is just a fact.” [2:09:50]
- On Theatre Fans:
“If you are someone who goes to see Suffs and you cheer for Jenn Colella but not Emily Skinner, then you do not deserve to celebrate Pride this year…good day to you, sirs or madams.” [1:01:03]
- On Critique:
“I love it though, when people say things like get off your high horse. …You are being just as bullying as you think you are being bullied.” [1:31:32]
Timestamps for Notable Segments
- Patriots (review & Tony outlook): [06:15 – 25:35]
- Patriots v. Stereophonic emotional engagement: [13:51]
- Suffs — origins, review, politics & production: [25:36 – 1:13:00]
- “Let Mother Vote” and show structure: [42:38]
- Triangular antagonist critique: [44:38]
- Ron Swanson/Parks & Rec quote: [49:40]
- Production & design complaints: [57:33]
- Suffs Tony predictions: [1:04:25]
- Gatsby—adaptation issues, bad lyrics, tone problems: [1:13:01 – 1:46:10]
- Big ending, musical theater manipulation: [1:30:00 – 1:32:00]
- Audience/critic divide: [1:29:38 – 1:34:45]
- Lempicka & Broadway discourse rant: [1:46:11 – End (~2:17:00)]
- Critique vs. support in the arts: [2:02:15 – 2:09:50]
- Final call for critical engagement: [2:13:30 – 2:17:00]
Tone & Style
True to Matt Koplik’s reputation, the episode is equal parts deeply analytical and irreverent, blending Broadway insider knowledge with sharp, sometimes acerbic, opinions. He moves fluidly between personal anecdotes, critical commentary, and industry observations, never shying away from dropping a well-earned F-bomb, challenging sacred cows, or calling out bullshit on both sides of critical divides.
Summary Takeaways
- Patriots is intellectually strong but cold and emotionally distancing, anchored by a standout performance from Michael Stuhlbarg.
- Suffs impresses with its score and ambition, but spreads itself thin—needing to explore conflict more than just address it.
- The Great Gatsby is, in Matt’s eyes, a shallow, opportunistic, and misguided take on the novel, with poor lyrics, unearned pathos, and forgettable production—an adaptation for people who hate musicals.
- The episode’s central through-line is a passionate insistence on the value of thoughtful criticism—whether artistic, theatrical, or communal—and a caution against both anti-intellectual fan fervor and whiny creator defensiveness.
For listeners who missed the episode:
Matt provides trenchant, funny, and sometimes bruising assessments of the current Broadway landscape. Whether you agree with his tastes or not, his call for critical discourse and unflinching honesty cuts through the “bullshit” and delivers a high-octane, essential listen for Broadway lovers who want more than PR gloss.