Broadway Breakdown: "THE PROM" with Ali Gordon

Date: November 23, 2023
Host: Matt Koplik
Guest: Ali Gordon

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode kicks off a new Broadway Breakdown series on "problematic" shows—musicals people love to argue about, be it for messy creative execution, controversial themes, or both. Matt and returning guest Ali Gordon dive deep into THE PROM, dissecting its cultural context, writing, cast, queer politics, controversies, and place in modern Broadway, all with characteristic irreverence, personal anecdotes, and plenty of theater-geek candor.

Episode Structure & Key Sections

[00:30] Introduction & Series Concept
[02:15] Defining "Problematic" in Theater
[05:06] The Real-Life Story Behind THE PROM
[09:19] Personal Prom Stories & Connections to the Show
[10:02] Reception: Memories vs. Critical Reality
[12:06] The Movie Adaptation
[13:04] Teen Response to THE PROM
[17:02] Plot Overview ("What's THE PROM Actually About?")
[18:38] The World of Broadway Satire vs. Indiana Satire
[26:00] Character Analysis & Role-Creation
[35:00] Teen Characters: Believability Issues
[41:00] Side Characters: Fleshing Out Angie, Trent, and the Ensemble
[44:31] "Love Thy Neighbor" Sequence & Queer Politics
[60:00] Three Outcomes for Queer Acceptance in the Show
[77:36] Alyssa Green: Character Critique
[85:38] Personal Experience & Queer Relationships in Storytelling
[91:14] The Broadway-to-Movie Casting Controversy
[99:43] Favorite Songs & Choreography Critique
[108:03] Messy Morals and the Importance of Gray
[112:11] Final Verdict: What Makes THE PROM "Problematic"

Detailed Breakdown & Insights

1. What Makes a Show "Problematic"?

([02:33])

Matt argues that "problematic" is often misapplied—originally for shows that don’t work structurally (e.g., Candide), now for anything faintly offensive or outdated.
Quote: “The word problematic is now kind of misused for theater... now it's used for shows that people find slightly offensive or misguided.” —Matt (02:34)

2. Inspiration: Real-Life Story

([05:06])

THE PROM is inspired by Mississippi teen Constance McMillan, who was banned from bringing her girlfriend to prom. The infamous fake prom switch is based in fact.
Social media ("Before we knew the internet was forever") amplified the real-life story.

3. Personal High School Prom Anecdotes & Teen Dynamics

([09:19], [08:52])

Matt and Ali share memories of attending prom together, including how Matt was "the most popular person there because you were, like, cutting up the dance floor" (08:52).

4. Show’s Critical Reception: Mixed Memories

([10:02])

Matt recalls thinking the show was a critical darling; in reality, reviews were mixed. Times & Variety praised, but many thought it had bumps.

5. The Movie Adaptation: Love It or Leave It

([12:06])

Released during COVID, the movie had "no footprint" and "didn't really make a mark with teens either." Teens love the stage show, but nobody mentions the movie.

6. Broadway vs. Indiana: Cartoons in Conflict

([18:38], [21:16])

Both settings lampoon their worlds: jaded Broadway narcissists vs. small-town Indiana as a cartoon "in the negative sense."
Interesting core: the narcissism of "actors seeking relevancy through other people’s issues" is biting and relevant.

7. Teen Storylines: Flat and Relatable

([16:02], [31:16])

Critique: The teen ensemble actors “all have 401ks,” with little authenticity, and teens in the show act and talk like adults’ idea of teens.
The show suffers where adults write Gen Z characters without intimate knowledge of their culture, leading to awkward, unearned earnestness (e.g., YouTube scenes).

8. Two-World Structure: Strength or Liability?

([35:00])

Quote: “It's so much more interesting to have two worlds combine and fight than to do a fully clown version or the fully earnest version.” —Ali (35:20)
Some wish the Emma storyline was the main arc; Matt notes that the Broadway adults’ story often upstages it.

9. Main Characters: Standouts and Shortcomings

([26:00])

Dee Dee Allen (Beth Leavel) and Barry Glickman (Brooks Ashmanskas) are "the most compelling" because they make mistakes and grow.
Emma (Caitlin Kinnunen) is virtuous but too passive: "She doesn't make mistakes; bad things happen to her."
Alyssa Green, Emma’s closeted girlfriend, receives both empathy and tough love from the hosts; her story arcs into self-awareness but not without critiques.
Many characters are “underwritten or just there for a moment” (e.g., Angie).

10. "Love Thy Neighbor": Queer Politics & Plausibility

([44:31])

The defining number, "Love Thy Neighbor," illustrates the show's optimistic yet overly simplistic view of small-town bigotry and religious hypocrisy.
Both hosts doubt that real-life teens would immediately, uniformly “turn” after one musical number; the town’s bigotry feels under-explored.
Quote: "This number feels like... two legs in two different worlds... Did not get programmed out of it so fast." —Ali (45:02)

11. Three Outcomes of Queer Acceptance

([60:00])

Matt admires that the musical shows:
- Total rejection (Barry's parents)
- Partial, uncertain acceptance (Alyssa's mom: "We'll talk tonight")
- Complete, instant support (Emma's peers)
Criticism of the movie version for flattening and rushing all conflicts into fairy-tale resolutions, denying queer kids a relatable range of outcomes.
Quote: "That woman would not make a 180 in two hours... It’s even better, Jack, she’s made a full 360." —Matt (65:42)

12. The Broadway-to-Movie Casting Controversy

([91:14])

Ryan Murphy’s Netflix film excluded the original cast, hiring stars like Meryl Streep, James Corden, and Nicole Kidman.
Fans were angry, but Matt points out: "No one cares if Beth Leavel and Brooks Ashmanskas star in a Netflix movie. The world doesn't know who they are.”
Matt and Ali agree some roles were written so specifically for the actors, it’s debatable whether the performance or the script makes the character shine.

13. Favorite Songs and Choreography

([98:43])

Both love "Barry’s Going to Prom," calling it beautifully specific and emotionally rich.
Choreography described as “alien imitation of what teens do at prom.”
Quote: “It’s like Ariel brushing her hair with the fork. We see how you got there girl.” —Ali (100:48)

14. Messy, Irreverent Tone as Feature, Not Bug

([108:03])

The show’s humor and irreverence (e.g., off-color jokes) are intentional—characters’ ignorance is the joke, not the author's voice.
Quote: "Dee Dee Allen’s never met a deaf person. She’s only seen The Miracle Worker." —Ali (109:02)

15. Final Verdict: Is THE PROM Really "Problematic"?

([112:11])

Not in the social-justice sense, but "problematic" in terms of execution: too many characters, over-explanation, tonal imbalances.
The show excels when owning its campy side and letting "gray morality" shine.
"It's problematic in terms of some of its execution in the actual writing" —Matt (112:11)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the definition of 'problematic' in theater:
“It should be reserved for shows that don’t work, don’t gel. Now it just means ‘shows I find offensive.’” —Matt ([02:34])
On authentic teen voices:
"It was an ensemble of 35-year-olds playing teenagers in clothes teenagers have never worn… That’s one of my biggest pet peeves." —Ali ([16:02])
On high school dance floors:
"You actually needed to share… I would dance with you, and then somebody would, like, cut in and be like, ‘Can I have a turn?’ And you, like, danced with every girl." —Ali ([08:52])
On Broadway narcissists:
“Take the work seriously, not yourself… You can always tell when an actor is a full of person… like pornography. You can’t define it, but you know when you see it.” —Matt ([19:07])
On queerness & coming out stories:
"It is so hard to come out; you never actually know what's going to happen… Heartstopper, Call Me by Your Name, The Prom movie all give this fantasy where it's instantly okay… But for queer kids, that's not always how it is." —Matt ([66:46])
On character growth:
"Most things we do comes from a place of what is right and convenient for me." —Matt ([48:52])
On the disconnect in movie casting:
"No one cares if Beth Leavel and Brooks Ashmanskas are starring in a Netflix movie… The world knows who Meryl is." —Matt ([93:09])
On over-explaining:
"Almost always it is the fault of producer interference… It is quite a joy to fill in the blanks with your own whatever." —Ali ([57:57])
On wanting more from Alyssa Green:
"If we didn't have that (her solo ‘Alyssa Green’), she'd be a quite hateable character." —Ali ([86:58])
On THE PROM’s place in the canon:
"We are the teenagers The Prom was written for." —Matt ([26:00])

Timestamps for Essential Segments

[02:33] — Defining “problematic” and introducing THE PROM
[05:06] — The real-life inspiration and prom bait-and-switch
[13:04] — Teens’ reactions: why they love the show, not the movie
[17:02] — THE PROM's plot and key characters
[35:00] — Ensemble depth and two-world structure discussion
[44:31] — “Love Thy Neighbor,” religion, and believability of small-town reversal
[60:00] — Three types of queer acceptance outcomes in the show
[91:14] — Broadway-to-Hollywood casting and fandom uproar
[99:43] — Favorite numbers, choreography, and emotional moments (climax: “time to build a prom”)
[108:03] — Messy morals, characters’ bad jokes, and why that’s okay
[112:11] — Final verdict: messy, but loveable and more “problematic” structurally than politically

Tone & Style Highlights

True to the host’s reputation, the episode is brash, jargon-filled, and gleefully “inside baseball"—an unapologetic deep dive for and by theater obsessives. Matt and Ali blend personal memories, critical analysis, and irreverent references (Sondheim, Amadeus, Birdcage, Elaine May, etc.), with plentiful sidebars and affectionately crude humor. Both are quick to call out flaws, but always in the spirit of loving Broadway’s messiness as much as its heart.

For Listeners with No Prior Knowledge

This episode gives an unvarnished education on THE PROM’s place in Broadway and pop culture. You’ll gain understanding of why it’s cherished, why it’s critiqued, and how Broadway’s relationship with TV/film, queerness, and modern “problematic” discourse continues to evolve. You’ll also absorb why loving musical theater means always having complicated feelings about what works, what’s cringe, and what’s worth fighting for.

Closing Notes

Podcast ends with shout-outs to the teachers and teens who sing “Alyssa Green,” a cheeky riff on how the musical resonates with young performers.
The spirit: If you want perfect, look elsewhere. But if you want big-hearted, flawed fun—and to see queer kids win just a little—THE PROM delivers.

Next up on Broadway Breakdown: A new episode on another “problematic” show—stay tuned!

Broadway Breakdown: "THE PROM" with Ali Gordon

Date: November 23, 2023
Host: Matt Koplik
Guest: Ali Gordon

Main Theme & Purpose

Episode Structure & Key Sections

[00:30] Introduction & Series Concept
[02:15] Defining "Problematic" in Theater
[05:06] The Real-Life Story Behind THE PROM
[09:19] Personal Prom Stories & Connections to the Show
[10:02] Reception: Memories vs. Critical Reality
[12:06] The Movie Adaptation
[13:04] Teen Response to THE PROM
[17:02] Plot Overview ("What's THE PROM Actually About?")
[18:38] The World of Broadway Satire vs. Indiana Satire
[26:00] Character Analysis & Role-Creation
[35:00] Teen Characters: Believability Issues
[41:00] Side Characters: Fleshing Out Angie, Trent, and the Ensemble
[44:31] "Love Thy Neighbor" Sequence & Queer Politics
[60:00] Three Outcomes for Queer Acceptance in the Show
[77:36] Alyssa Green: Character Critique
[85:38] Personal Experience & Queer Relationships in Storytelling
[91:14] The Broadway-to-Movie Casting Controversy
[99:43] Favorite Songs & Choreography Critique
[108:03] Messy Morals and the Importance of Gray
[112:11] Final Verdict: What Makes THE PROM "Problematic"

Detailed Breakdown & Insights

1. What Makes a Show "Problematic"?

([02:33])

Matt argues that "problematic" is often misapplied—originally for shows that don’t work structurally (e.g., Candide), now for anything faintly offensive or outdated.
Quote: “The word problematic is now kind of misused for theater... now it's used for shows that people find slightly offensive or misguided.” —Matt (02:34)

2. Inspiration: Real-Life Story

([05:06])

THE PROM is inspired by Mississippi teen Constance McMillan, who was banned from bringing her girlfriend to prom. The infamous fake prom switch is based in fact.
Social media ("Before we knew the internet was forever") amplified the real-life story.

3. Personal High School Prom Anecdotes & Teen Dynamics

([09:19], [08:52])

Matt and Ali share memories of attending prom together, including how Matt was "the most popular person there because you were, like, cutting up the dance floor" (08:52).

4. Show’s Critical Reception: Mixed Memories

([10:02])

Matt recalls thinking the show was a critical darling; in reality, reviews were mixed. Times & Variety praised, but many thought it had bumps.

5. The Movie Adaptation: Love It or Leave It

([12:06])

Released during COVID, the movie had "no footprint" and "didn't really make a mark with teens either." Teens love the stage show, but nobody mentions the movie.

6. Broadway vs. Indiana: Cartoons in Conflict

([18:38], [21:16])

Both settings lampoon their worlds: jaded Broadway narcissists vs. small-town Indiana as a cartoon "in the negative sense."
Interesting core: the narcissism of "actors seeking relevancy through other people’s issues" is biting and relevant.

7. Teen Storylines: Flat and Relatable

([16:02], [31:16])

Critique: The teen ensemble actors “all have 401ks,” with little authenticity, and teens in the show act and talk like adults’ idea of teens.
The show suffers where adults write Gen Z characters without intimate knowledge of their culture, leading to awkward, unearned earnestness (e.g., YouTube scenes).

8. Two-World Structure: Strength or Liability?

([35:00])

Quote: “It's so much more interesting to have two worlds combine and fight than to do a fully clown version or the fully earnest version.” —Ali (35:20)
Some wish the Emma storyline was the main arc; Matt notes that the Broadway adults’ story often upstages it.

9. Main Characters: Standouts and Shortcomings

([26:00])

Dee Dee Allen (Beth Leavel) and Barry Glickman (Brooks Ashmanskas) are "the most compelling" because they make mistakes and grow.
Emma (Caitlin Kinnunen) is virtuous but too passive: "She doesn't make mistakes; bad things happen to her."
Alyssa Green, Emma’s closeted girlfriend, receives both empathy and tough love from the hosts; her story arcs into self-awareness but not without critiques.
Many characters are “underwritten or just there for a moment” (e.g., Angie).

10. "Love Thy Neighbor": Queer Politics & Plausibility

([44:31])

The defining number, "Love Thy Neighbor," illustrates the show's optimistic yet overly simplistic view of small-town bigotry and religious hypocrisy.
Both hosts doubt that real-life teens would immediately, uniformly “turn” after one musical number; the town’s bigotry feels under-explored.
Quote: "This number feels like... two legs in two different worlds... Did not get programmed out of it so fast." —Ali (45:02)

11. Three Outcomes of Queer Acceptance

([60:00])

Matt admires that the musical shows:
- Total rejection (Barry's parents)
- Partial, uncertain acceptance (Alyssa's mom: "We'll talk tonight")
- Complete, instant support (Emma's peers)
Criticism of the movie version for flattening and rushing all conflicts into fairy-tale resolutions, denying queer kids a relatable range of outcomes.
Quote: "That woman would not make a 180 in two hours... It’s even better, Jack, she’s made a full 360." —Matt (65:42)

12. The Broadway-to-Movie Casting Controversy

([91:14])

Ryan Murphy’s Netflix film excluded the original cast, hiring stars like Meryl Streep, James Corden, and Nicole Kidman.
Fans were angry, but Matt points out: "No one cares if Beth Leavel and Brooks Ashmanskas star in a Netflix movie. The world doesn't know who they are.”
Matt and Ali agree some roles were written so specifically for the actors, it’s debatable whether the performance or the script makes the character shine.

13. Favorite Songs and Choreography

([98:43])

Both love "Barry’s Going to Prom," calling it beautifully specific and emotionally rich.
Choreography described as “alien imitation of what teens do at prom.”
Quote: “It’s like Ariel brushing her hair with the fork. We see how you got there girl.” —Ali (100:48)

14. Messy, Irreverent Tone as Feature, Not Bug

([108:03])

The show’s humor and irreverence (e.g., off-color jokes) are intentional—characters’ ignorance is the joke, not the author's voice.
Quote: "Dee Dee Allen’s never met a deaf person. She’s only seen The Miracle Worker." —Ali (109:02)

15. Final Verdict: Is THE PROM Really "Problematic"?

([112:11])

Not in the social-justice sense, but "problematic" in terms of execution: too many characters, over-explanation, tonal imbalances.
The show excels when owning its campy side and letting "gray morality" shine.
"It's problematic in terms of some of its execution in the actual writing" —Matt (112:11)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the definition of 'problematic' in theater:
“It should be reserved for shows that don’t work, don’t gel. Now it just means ‘shows I find offensive.’” —Matt ([02:34])
On authentic teen voices:
"It was an ensemble of 35-year-olds playing teenagers in clothes teenagers have never worn… That’s one of my biggest pet peeves." —Ali ([16:02])
On high school dance floors:
"You actually needed to share… I would dance with you, and then somebody would, like, cut in and be like, ‘Can I have a turn?’ And you, like, danced with every girl." —Ali ([08:52])
On Broadway narcissists:
“Take the work seriously, not yourself… You can always tell when an actor is a full of person… like pornography. You can’t define it, but you know when you see it.” —Matt ([19:07])
On queerness & coming out stories:
"It is so hard to come out; you never actually know what's going to happen… Heartstopper, Call Me by Your Name, The Prom movie all give this fantasy where it's instantly okay… But for queer kids, that's not always how it is." —Matt ([66:46])
On character growth:
"Most things we do comes from a place of what is right and convenient for me." —Matt ([48:52])
On the disconnect in movie casting:
"No one cares if Beth Leavel and Brooks Ashmanskas are starring in a Netflix movie… The world knows who Meryl is." —Matt ([93:09])
On over-explaining:
"Almost always it is the fault of producer interference… It is quite a joy to fill in the blanks with your own whatever." —Ali ([57:57])
On wanting more from Alyssa Green:
"If we didn't have that (her solo ‘Alyssa Green’), she'd be a quite hateable character." —Ali ([86:58])
On THE PROM’s place in the canon:
"We are the teenagers The Prom was written for." —Matt ([26:00])

Timestamps for Essential Segments

[02:33] — Defining “problematic” and introducing THE PROM
[05:06] — The real-life inspiration and prom bait-and-switch
[13:04] — Teens’ reactions: why they love the show, not the movie
[17:02] — THE PROM's plot and key characters
[35:00] — Ensemble depth and two-world structure discussion
[44:31] — “Love Thy Neighbor,” religion, and believability of small-town reversal
[60:00] — Three types of queer acceptance outcomes in the show
[91:14] — Broadway-to-Hollywood casting and fandom uproar
[99:43] — Favorite numbers, choreography, and emotional moments (climax: “time to build a prom”)
[108:03] — Messy morals, characters’ bad jokes, and why that’s okay
[112:11] — Final verdict: messy, but loveable and more “problematic” structurally than politically

Tone & Style Highlights

For Listeners with No Prior Knowledge

Closing Notes

Podcast ends with shout-outs to the teachers and teens who sing “Alyssa Green,” a cheeky riff on how the musical resonates with young performers.
The spirit: If you want perfect, look elsewhere. But if you want big-hearted, flawed fun—and to see queer kids win just a little—THE PROM delivers.

Next up on Broadway Breakdown: A new episode on another “problematic” show—stay tuned!

THE PROM w/ Ali Gordon

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Summary

Broadway Breakdown: "THE PROM" with Ali Gordon

Main Theme & Purpose

Episode Structure & Key Sections

Detailed Breakdown & Insights

1. What Makes a Show "Problematic"?

2. Inspiration: Real-Life Story

3. Personal High School Prom Anecdotes & Teen Dynamics

4. Show’s Critical Reception: Mixed Memories

5. The Movie Adaptation: Love It or Leave It

6. Broadway vs. Indiana: Cartoons in Conflict

7. Teen Storylines: Flat and Relatable

8. Two-World Structure: Strength or Liability?

9. Main Characters: Standouts and Shortcomings

10. "Love Thy Neighbor": Queer Politics & Plausibility

11. Three Outcomes of Queer Acceptance

12. The Broadway-to-Movie Casting Controversy

13. Favorite Songs and Choreography

14. Messy, Irreverent Tone as Feature, Not Bug

15. Final Verdict: Is THE PROM Really "Problematic"?

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Essential Segments

Tone & Style Highlights

For Listeners with No Prior Knowledge

Closing Notes

Summary

Broadway Breakdown: "THE PROM" with Ali Gordon

Main Theme & Purpose

Episode Structure & Key Sections

Detailed Breakdown & Insights

1. What Makes a Show "Problematic"?

2. Inspiration: Real-Life Story

3. Personal High School Prom Anecdotes & Teen Dynamics

4. Show’s Critical Reception: Mixed Memories

5. The Movie Adaptation: Love It or Leave It

6. Broadway vs. Indiana: Cartoons in Conflict

7. Teen Storylines: Flat and Relatable

8. Two-World Structure: Strength or Liability?

9. Main Characters: Standouts and Shortcomings

10. "Love Thy Neighbor": Queer Politics & Plausibility

11. Three Outcomes of Queer Acceptance

12. The Broadway-to-Movie Casting Controversy

13. Favorite Songs and Choreography

14. Messy, Irreverent Tone as Feature, Not Bug

15. Final Verdict: Is THE PROM Really "Problematic"?

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Essential Segments

Tone & Style Highlights

For Listeners with No Prior Knowledge

Closing Notes