Tony Nominations are Here!!! (2025) w/ The Theater Lovers

Summary

Broadway Breakdown: “Tony Nominations are Here!!! (2025)”

Host: Matt Koplik
Guests: Will & Rachel Anderson (The Theater Lovers)
Release Date: May 1, 2025

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Episode Overview

This lively episode of Broadway Breakdown brings an immediate, irreverent, and deeply knowledgeable roundtable reaction to the 2025 Tony Award nominations. Host Matt Koplik is joined by recurring guests Will and Rachel (The Theater Lovers) for a category-by-category overview, hot takes on surprises and snubs, thoughtful analysis of Broadway trends, and classic in-jokes between three bona fide theater geeks.

Matt and the Andersons cover everything from the biggest headlines (Helen J Shen snub!), standout nom haul for certain shows (Hills of California, Buena Vista Social Club), technical category debates, historic statistics, category fraud, and even a eulogy for the fallen shows and performances now officially out of contention.

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Key Highlights & Discussion Points

Setting the Scene: Where Were You When the Noms Dropped?

• The Andersons watched the nominations live at the Broadway Plus offices in Midtown: “It was a very sweet little bagels and coffee and a lot of theater kid energy. ...it reminded me of going to a sports game. Not to call it a sports game. Some sort of sporting event, there it is.” (Will, 01:34)
• Matt likens Tony nom day to a personal “March Madness”: “You know, awards are funny because like, they're not real, but they are a lot of fun and they can mean something in the grand scheme of things...” (Matt, 02:47)

Overarching Tony Themes

• Awards Matter… and Don’t: “They don't matter, but they're real. Or they're not real but they matter.” (Matt, 02:47)
• Statistical/anecdotal knowledge abounds (re: closed shows' odds, historic musical/tech wins, category alignments for big winners).

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Category-by-Category Breakdown

Best Play [09:46]

• Predicted Lineup: English, The Hills of California, John Proctor Is the Villain, Oh, Mary!, and Purpose.
  • “I got it completely right, I’m not mad and I’m not upset about it at all.” (Matt, 09:45)
• Surprises/Snubs: Stranger Things not in, signals Broadway’s ambivalence toward big-money, IP-focused shows despite technical achievement.
• Praise: “I was so happy to see [English]. …I’m an English girly. Not in ethnicity, but just a fandom.” (Rachel, 14:01)

Best Sound Design [17:08, 20:02]

Play:

• Recognition for shows with cinematic, immersive sound (e.g., Job, Stranger Things), with closed shows facing “biggest hurdles”—a refrain throughout the episode.
• “Job was like, all of my triggers in a closed space…” (Will, 18:29)

Musical:

• Love for Buena Vista Social Club’s “present” orchestra and Floyd Collins’ expanded sonics.
• “Listen, there are a couple of nominations Floyd Collins got today that I’m like, did my review on Monday influence Tony Nominators?” (Matt, 20:35)

Lighting Design [27:21, 31:29]

• General approval for both play and musical lineups; strong presence for Hills of California, Sunset Boulevard, and Floyd Collins.
• Reflection on the blend of “spectacle lighting” and the subtler, invisible artistry (are the best designs the ones you don’t notice?).

Costume Design [35:46, 39:41]

Plays:

• Heavy tilt toward period pieces; discussion on how “period = visible effort = easier to award.”

Musicals:

• Foregone conclusion: "Death Becomes Her is slam dunk. She’s winning that with that bedazzled vagina outfit that Michelle Williams wears." (Matt, 39:42)
• Surprise: Maybe Happy Ending getting in, reflections on “Sims” inspiration.

Scenic Design [46:30, 51:14]

Plays:

• Side discussion about audience sightlines and the importance of designing “for everyone.”
• Matt: “Either theatre is elitist or it’s for everyone. Play that show to everyone!” (50:10)

Musicals:

• Swept Away’s sole nomination for set design (“Good for her!”).
• Mild surprise that Sunset Boulevard missed, despite its tech wizardry.

Orchestrations [56:58]

• Applause for Floyd Collins expanding its band (“It’s the sound we love from that score, but it's just richer.” – Matt, 59:29)
• Discussion of the usual Tony orchestrations logics: “Usually it’s one of three things: best score nominee, a revival with major re-orchestration, or a jukebox musical that does funky things.”

Choreography [69:56]

• Death Becomes Her credited for ingenious “fall” sequence as choreography.
  “Death Becomes Her: choreography included with, like, the…down the stair… the fight—not fight choreo but the staging of that as…all that kind of stuff…” (Rachel, 73:12)
• General agreement that Buena Vista Social Club is the category frontrunner.

Book & Score of a Musical [77:01, 84:07]

• Book: The nominees all align with Best Musical, a strong predictor of outcome.
• Score: “Do not bet against David Yazbek.” (Matt, 85:06) – Real Women Have Curves rightly acknowledged.
• Notable rhyming lyric: “They rhyme nozzle with menopausal, and for that we're grateful.” (Matt, 86:17)

Direction [88:52 plays, 93:00 musicals]

Musicals:

• Jamie Lloyd’s boldness for Sunset Boulevard gets its due. “What he did with Sunset Boulevard is insane… I loved it so much…” (Rachel, 91:08)

Plays:

• Picture of Dorian Gray (Kip Williams) earns high praise for staging that immerses the audience in obsession with “image over reality” (Will, 94:48).

Featured Performances

Plays:

• “Wild West” of choices—category is stacked, especially male.
  • Gabriel Ebert’s nomination for John Proctor triggers debate about flipping between “innocent” and “mustache-twirling” villain (98:36+).
• Highlight: Glenn Davis finally getting his “roses” after Downstate (98:00).

Musicals:

• Universal delight for Taylor Trensch (Floyd Collins) and both The Andersons and Matt calling out Pirates snubs (Jinx Monsoon, Ramin Karimloo).
• “Joy Woods for Audra Gypsy. Louise gets nominated every single time. She just do.” (Matt, 112:33)

Leading Performer Categories

Lead Actor in a Play [117:59]

• Shocker: Six nominees, including George Clooney, Daniel Dae Kim, and Louis McCartney for Stranger Things.
• Kit Connor (Romeo & Juliet) & Peter Friedman (Job) sadly snubbed.
• “No Denzel, some star power, but not star fuckery.”

Lead Actress in a Play [124:48]

• Predictable, strong slate; universal acclaim for Sarah Snook’s performance (“She has that Tony wrapped up and delivered to her door already.” - Matt, 125:30), but Laura Donnelly’s subtlety also cherished.

Lead Actor in a Musical [126:35]

• Another surprise six. "Could not believe James Monroe Iglehart got in." (Matt, 127:05)
• Eulogies for the fallen: David Hyde Pierce (Pirates), Gray Henson (Elf), and a running bit on “where the boys are/boys at/boys were.”

Lead Actress in a Musical [133:27]

• The Helen J Shen snub headline, but Matt’s been prepping listeners for weeks: "If anyone had been listening, their butt would have been prepared for it."
• Both Matt and Rachel stress the “you can’t pick between Michelle Williams and Megan Hilty” (Death Becomes Her), and Jasmine Amy Rogers (Boop!) is “the boop in all of us.”

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Trends, Moments & Quotes

Quotes & Memorable Bits

• Awards Matter/Don’t:
  “They don't matter, but they're real. Or they're not real but they matter.” (Matt, 02:47)
• Matt on Old Friends performances:
  “Joe [Wright] left her whole vagina on the floor…” (Matt, 06:25)
• On Buena Vista Social Club sound:
  “Every instrument…was with a physical mic. So it sounded so present and it. Oh, it sounded glorious.” (Will, 21:49)
• Choreography as staging innovation:
  “Death Becomes Her has the Fall.” (Matt, 74:35)
• Rachel’s ‘Sims’ read:
  “Maybe Happy Ending, the costumes remind me of like the Sims... it's kind of like when you start in the Sims and you're like, randomize, and it's like throw a beret on there.” (Rachel, 45:54)
• On social media & criticism:
  “If you're going to give your opinions, you have to assume whoever you're talking about is going to see it.” (Rachel, 138:51)
• On being a man:
  “Of course I'm right. I'm a man, Rachel. Just don’t tell anybody.” (Matt, 154:17)

Recurring Bits

• “You never bet against CATHERINE ZUBER.” (costume design)
• “Category fraud” laments for David Hyde Pierce, Ramin Karimloo, and Brooks Ashmanskas.
• Matt’s ongoing campaign for Elf and Floyd Collins.

Shout-Outs/Eulogies

• Elf as “the most delightful surprise.”
• Gracie Lawrence (Just In Time)—a passion nomination for Matt.
• Gray Henson (“should have been in the running for Leading Actor”).
• The stat breakdown of Gypsy revivals/mama rose Tony wins (see 89:16+).
• For the “fallen”: Job, Cult of Love, Old Friends, Redwood, Tammy Faye, Last Five Years, Elf, Once Upon a Mattress, etc.

Broader Takeaways

• Tech categories were particularly competitive: major swings for Hills of California, Floyd Collins, and Sunset Boulevard.
• Voters (nominators) are distinct from fans and reviewers online: The difference between online “hype” and what the insider community actually rewards is a recurring theme.
• Record volume: “If you're a person who worked on a show this season, thank you so much, because this was... a spectacular season.” (Rachel, 155:06)

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Notable Timestamps

• Best Play – [09:46]
• Sound Design (Play) – [17:08]
• Sound Design (Musical) – [20:02]
• Lighting Design – [27:21, 31:29]
• Costume Design – [35:46, 39:41]
• Scenic Design – [46:30, 51:14]
• Orchestrations – [56:58]
• Choreography – [69:56]
• Book & Score – [77:01, 84:07]
• Director – [88:52 (Plays), 93:00 (Musicals)]
• Featured Performance Categories – [96:48, 106:44]
• Lead Performance Categories – [117:59, 124:48, 126:35, 133:27]
• Play & Musical Revival – [142:16, 144:17]
• Best Musical – [150:15]

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Closing Thoughts

• The panel closes by expressing gratitude for an unusually bountiful Broadway season, recognizing the passion and artistic achievement that got every show to Broadway—nominated or not.
• Rachel: "Attention must be paid." (155:07)
• Matt reiterates: it's a game of odds, tastes, sometimes pure luck, and “you don’t need everyone to love what you do, just the right 52 people to love what you did.”

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Where to Find the Panelists

• The Theater Lovers:
  @the_theater_lovers (Instagram), @theaterlovers (X/Twitter), thetheaterlovers.com

• Host – Matt Koplik:
  Instagram: @mattkoplik

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Final Sendoff

The episode ends, per tradition, with a tribute to "diva of the week":
Jordan Tyson (as Dainty June in Gypsy), accompanied by laughter and stories about memorable in-performance moments.

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For full categories, nominations, analysis, and more fun, listen to the complete episode on your podcast platform of choice, and visit bwaybreakdown.substack.com.

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Summary prepared using original language, timestamped references, and panelists’ genuine tone and banter.

Transcript

[A]

Think of the prestige. Think of the respect. No, no, no. Think of the Tony. Hello, all you theater lovers both out and proud and on the DL. And welcome back to Broadway Breakdown, a podcast discussing the history und legacy of American theater's most exclusive address, Broadway. I'm your host, Matt Koplik, the least famous and most opinionated of all the Broadway podcast hosts. And it's been a solid 48 hours since you last heard from me. And because Tony nominations have happened. Woo. Hallelujah. With me today are friends of the pod lovers of the pod lovers of the theater. You all know them, you love them on the Discord Channel. Y' all have been like, oh, my God, we can't wait. Theater lovers hive, rise up. Please welcome back Will and Rachel Anderson, otherwise known as the theater lovers. Hi, France.

[B]

The theater lovers hive. Hey, shout out to the. The hive.

[A]

You guys have such a hive. You're such prominent footprints in the. In the commune.

[B]

That's very generous and goofy.

[A]

Yes. Some have called me generous in the past, I'm sure. Yeah. For different reasons. So, guys, it's been about an hour and a half since the nominations came out.

[B]

Crazy.

[A]

Where were you when the world stopped turning?

[B]

So we. We very generously were invited to watch the nominations in real time in midtown at the offices of Broadway Plus. So shout out Broadway plus for hosting.

[C]

Thank you for having us.

[B]

It was a very sweet little bagels and coffee and a lot of theater kid energy. Lots of other content creators through the Arts Insider.

[C]

So there was a piano there. It got played.

[B]

Yeah. If there's a piano in the room, somebody's gonna play it, and that's just the rules.

[A]

But somebody's gonna play the intro to either Seasons of Love or Summer Nights. Exactly. Yeah. Every time.

[B]

Or just a mishmash. But yeah. Yeah. So it was. It was a lot of fun. I honestly couldn't believe how. I know we'll get into it, but just like how they broke it into the two segments. Right. So it was like. They did I don't know how many in the first chunk and then everything else in the second chunk, and they took longer to do less nominations in the first chunk. In the second chunk, we were like. It was such a, like, breakneck speed. We had to go back and. And look through it all. But it was. It was kind of crazy. It was almost like, not like a. It reminded me of like going to a sports. Sports game. Not to call it a sports game. Some sort of sporting event. There it is.

[A]

Right? It's like. It's like NFL Draft.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

That's what. It's very much so.

[B]

Very.

[C]

Nominees left it all on the court.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I. I said, this is sort of my March Madness. You know, awards are funny because, like, they're not real, but they are a lot of fun and they can mean something in the grand scheme of things. Like, it's. It's interesting. People are always like, oh, they don't matter when, you know, a fav doesn't get recognized or when a fave does get recognized. Oh, it's such a huge deal. Right? I'm like, yes, you have one in both hands. It's. They don't matter, but they are. Or like, they're not real, but they matter, or they don't matter, but they're real.

[B]

It's like somebody's always getting. Gonna get their feelings hurt.

[A]

Absolutely. It's the name of the game. There are only so many slots, and there are definitely some surprises. How did you guys do with your predictions? Did you have. You, like, kind of made a look at them?

[B]

Yeah. Pretty. Okay. The plays we. So we've seen all but three of the musicals this season. The plays were sitting at, like, 50 or lower, so a lot of our play guesses were off, I would say.

[C]

But the music had Gabriel Byrne taking everything for Walking With Ghosts. And I was like.

[B]

And I was like, that was two seasons.

[A]

It got nothing. Oh, no. Yeah.

[B]

It's been dead for two seasons ago.

[A]

And they still were like, he's eligible because he'll always be eligible. He's walking with them damn ghosts. I. Yeah. I will say so as a huge.

[B]

Year for the undead, by the way.

[A]

Yeah, huge. Oh, yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Huge year. Huge year for that. I was going through my predictions because I did my Tony predictions 48 hours.

[B]

Ago, of course, and I did listen. Yeah.

[A]

We tuned in, and at the. At the point that I had recorded, I had not seen Old Friends just yet, and I had seen Dead Outlaw off Broadway, but not on Broadway. So I wasn't, like, fresh in my mind of. Of the show. So I. I made some predictions based on sort of hype and precursors and whatnot. And looking at my predictions and then, like, my limiting it down to, like, two or three, like, possible spoiler nominations, like, who's knocking at that door to swap out? Like, I actually did pretty well.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If I had to make a grand statement of where I really shat the bed, I definitely thought that the Tonys were going to go for the technical stuff of McNeil.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Which they didn't. I'm not mad about being wrong about it, but I was like that because I was like, oh, sound and set. Like, that's. That's right up their goddamn alley. That's something they can look at and be like, that's a set. That. That is sound. And they didn't do it. And I get it. I'm not mad about it. But I was like, huh, they're being a little less basic this year. I also going in before I'd gone into Old Friends, I had heard certain feedback about certain performances that I basically, I was told, like, name names. Well, basically, it was like, Leia Salanga burns the theater down. And like, you know, oh, my God, it's like a revelation. The thing she does in that show. You've never seen Leia Salonga like this before, but watch out, she'll get nominated. And then other people being like, well, they're going to honor Bernadette. And all of these things made sense to me on paper.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I went to see Old Friends last night and I. My. That review will be coming out. But all I'll say is spoilers. Spoiler. All I'll say is, like, the lack of nominations for those two women make sense to me now.

[B]

I think in a different season sure could happen. Yeah.

[A]

I think Leia is definitely the more successful of the two for me. And I get what people are talking about with her performance in it, but it's not quite the mind blowing revelation that I. That people have been saying, I'm like, leia Salonga has an amazing voice. We've always known this. She's just like, hey, guess what other things I can do with it. You know who really was just a joy for me to watch in that. And yes, I'm biased, but Joe writing left her whole vagina on the floor. And getting. Not getting married today. She was charming in everything else.

[B]

She deeply excellent. Yeah.

[A]

Yes, I. I very much loved her. So I was. I mean, obviously it was never going to happen, but I watched. I was like. And also tw. Every time she twirled in that little dress, like, it's fun. I was like, oh, someone's a Rockette. Yeah.

[B]

And she wants you to remember.

[A]

Yes. She wants you to remember that she can dance.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She's. She's done this before.

[B]

I loved Old Friends. Bless you.

[A]

I had a good time in it. My biggest issue with Old Friends was just like, there were some wild song selections.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, I was.

[C]

But if you're delighted to hear the boy from Dot dot dot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, for sure. I'm glad that Kate Jennings Grant got something to do. It took until Act 2, but they finally let her have it.

[B]

Got it. Yeah. Leave it all on the court.

[A]

Yeah. Wait, before. Before we get into the nitty gritty, I do want to give a quick flower to reviews. As I always say, if you like the podcast, nice five star rating or review helps us a bunch. We've been getting a whole bunch of reviews lately, so I preach, and this one's a really good one, so cue the lightning. Piazza Overture, please. Five stars. Oh, hey, a clever title headline. Matt is one of those increasingly rare podcast hosts who perfectly bridges the gap between the knowledgeable expert and the passionate fan. His approach to everything he covers combines heartfelt and well formulated opinion with professional level insight. All delivered with a directness and a sense of humor that makes you feel like you're discussing a show over drinks in midtown in a midtown Manhattan dive bar with a friend. You just saw it with, in fact, my theater bestie. Hi, Laura, that's in parentheses. And I bring him up so often in conversation, you'd think he was actually part of our friend group. Like I have friends, please. He does an amazing job creating community by actively engaging with his listeners, both through the show's Discord channel and over social media, and is kind enough to laugh, react to laugh, react and reply to the dumb jokes and comments I occasionally crack on his Instagram stories. Matt, you should know that I deeply cherish our weird, parasocial, semi relationship. That's how I feel about Will and Rachel. If you're looking for a smart, funny, in depth theater pod that will have you eagerly awaiting each new episode, look no further than Broadway Breakdown. Yay.

[B]

That's a really good review.

[A]

It is. They've been. They've been fucking killing it lately, and especially with some of the titles. And then every now and then they put in a fun username for the review. So there's almost, and that's on taste.

[B]

If you're listening to this podcast and you're like five stars.

[A]

Yeah. Then clearly you're someone who knows what's up and what's down.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so I'm trying to figure out how we want to approach this. Do we. Do we go category by category? Do we want to kind of immediately go with some things that stuck out to us reactions, or like people that were. That we felt were ignored, or do we want to sort of go category?

[B]

I think the easiest way to do that is category by category, because otherwise I'm going to get lost.

[A]

Fantastic. Let's okay. Here's what I'm gonna do. We're gonna do. This is. Normally I've been going, like, low, not quote, unquote, low categories to the higher categories because I've been told it's nice for structure, but just to, like, get everyone nice and wet. Let's do a nice big category and then we'll go down and move our way up. So let's do. Let's do best play. Okay. I don't mean to boast, but I got this one completely right.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I was.

[B]

We have. Hold on.

[A]

I was very pleased with myself. We have. English the Hills of California. John Proctor is the villain. Oh, Mary. And purpose. Yeah, I got it completely right. I'm not mad and I'm not upset about it at all.

[B]

Was there any. Anyone that you were, like, perhaps I. I'm missing this. Like, I wouldn't be surprised if this snuck in.

[A]

Yeah. I think what I said in the predictions was that there was a possibility of Picture of Dorian Gray getting in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Maybe even Cult of Love. I don't. I never truly bought Picture of Dorian Gray getting in, especially when it. When they said that Oscar Wilde was going to be partly eligible for that award, I was like, okay, there goes.

[B]

Its chances because he's already dead.

[A]

Exactly. We're not pulling another TS Eliot and cat situation here.

[B]

Right, Right, right.

[A]

Yeah. So I just. I always felt really confident in that 5. I think the only one that felt sort of vulnerable to me was Hills of California because it did close in November or December. It did not really catch on with audiences. It had some really rave reviews and some mixed reviews. I'm somebody who saw it in London, really liked it, and thought the third act was kind of weak. And then they ended up my opinion, fixing the third act. So I was thrilled. And it's still number one of my season. And Laura Donnelly was incredible. And I just always felt like people were kind of sleeping on its chances. So I was thrilled to see that it, that it did so well today. What about you guys? What was. What were your thoughts?

[B]

I was a little bit shocked not to see Stranger Things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not. Because the thing about me and Stranger Things is I don't like to be afraid. So I went in knowing that this probably wasn't going to be for me. And unfortunately, my nervous system couldn't tell the difference between watching that show and, like, getting held at gunpoint. So I had a hard time with it. But while I was watching it, I was like, I understand who this is for. And, and for them they're gonna be so happy. Like, this is so exciting. So I kind of went in, I guess, with my own. Like, I didn't care for this because of, like, what it did to my mind and body, but if you're into that sort of thing, I think it would be, like, your favorite thing. So I guess I went in kind of like a. It could. It's a coin.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But that was the only one that I was, like, kind of surprised it wasn't there. Also, just, like, the juggernaut of, like, having Netflix behind it. I get that. That's not, like, you know, it's a thing as much as it's not a thing.

[A]

But they've got their own Billboard. Well, yeah. I think what we can sort of gather from these nominations and what we've been gathering for a while now is that there's definitely been a rebuke from the community of, like, big money coming in and trying to take over Broadway. Of, like, major IP coming in and. And trying to, you know, stick their flag in the. In the landing. And it's. It's not all the time. And I think there's more sort of, like, if you're gonna do it, do it as creatively and theatrically as possible, and, you know, you will be recognized. Like a death becomes her. Like a Harry Potter and the Cursed Child.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I did. I will say, having seen it, it was more creative and theatrical than I expected it to be.

[B]

Oh, totally. Yeah. Like I said, I was. As I was watching it, I was like, this is great also. I feel like I'm gonna have a panic attack.

[C]

It's gonna be the craziest show to call as a stage.

[A]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[B]

I don't envy that job at all.

[A]

With all the crazy optics that they have in that. Not at all. It must. I'm sure that those stage managers, like, have nightmares every night. Not because of the content. They're just like, ah, Q Lite 32. Like, it's. It's. It's that. Yeah.

[B]

If I felt like that watching it, I can't imagine what it feels like calling it.

[A]

I'm also a sucker for a turntable. So I was. I. When. When that turntable started turning, I was like, ah, they know what I want.

[B]

Yeah, it was nicely. And that's theater, darling.

[A]

That is theater.

[B]

They called up somebody who knew, you know, what I was really, really happy to see on the best playlist since we're still talking about it. English.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So. And we'll get into it, you know, as as we. We go further into the categories. But, like, I loved English so much, and I was so. I was so sad that it.

[C]

Possibility.

[B]

Well, yeah, because it's closed. And you know the. You know better than anybody. The stats of, like, if something's closed, it. Getting nominated, the chances, just like, it's. It's so difficult. So I was just so happy to see it. So. But on the. I'm an English girly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not in ethnicity, but just a fandom.

[A]

You're.

[B]

You're a supporter, a fan of the language, really.

[A]

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. The language of English, it's so. It's so wonderful.

[B]

So beautiful language.

[A]

Yeah, I. I agree. I loved it so much. I thought it was so moving and delightful and funny. So well acted. I mean, I think I never really doubted its chances because I was like, I know that we all feel this way about it or most of us feel this way about it, and it's. There's nothing else currently running that could usurp that. Also being a Pulitzer winner, it's just like. It all kind of adds up. Right. The things being closed totally is. It's always. It's always a hurdle for any show. I find that it's the biggest hurdle for musicals. It's really hard for a closed musical to come back around with Tony nominations and we'll get some of those surprises. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I find with plays, especially with performances, performance performances in plays that have closed have a better shot again, getting recognized, even winning. Whereas if you're in a musical and it's closed, if you get nominated, that's your win. Like, you just know you ain't getting any hardware at the end of the season.

[C]

Trying to think the only best musical winner that was closed was that Hallelujah, baby or was there as well.

[A]

That was Hallelujah, baby. Yes. Okay.

[B]

Because I think 1978.

[C]

68.

[A]

68. Yeah. I think. Is Passion still the shortest run for a best musical winner? Yes.

[C]

In not Strange Loop is close, but there's something about the previews where I think there were.

[A]

I think Strange Loop, baby. I think those are the three in that. And like, in least to most order, they're. They're all under 300. I know that it's crazy. It is crazy. But yeah, I think Hallelujah, because when I was a teenager and Will. Our brains are the same in this way. Like, I had Hallelujah, baby and passion, and I was like, they both share a statistic for best musical that's like very short and sad. And I was like, it's either passion is the one to close before and be the shortest run, or Hallelujah, baby's the one to close before winning. And then eventually, as I got older and I realized no passion was running, when the Tonys happen, I'm like, oh, then hallelujah, baby is the one to have closed. Yeah.

[B]

Crazy.

[A]

Yeah. Very fun times. Will, any other thoughts about best play before we go down to the very steamy category of sound design?

[C]

No, let's. Let's go for sound design.

[A]

Okay. Sound design.

[B]

Should we do it asmr? Should we do. Should we whisper? Or the. Okay.

[A]

My apologies to anyone listening to this on the subway. Sound design of a play. We have Stranger Things. John Proctor is the villain. Good night, unt. Good luck, the Hills of California and the Picture of Dorian Gray. I predicted three out of these five. I predicted strange. I predicted Stranger Things, Good night and good luck and picture of Dorian Gray. I think I said Hills of California was possible, and I know I said oh, Mary was possible. Just like, if they got swept up in the, like, shower. Oh, Mary. And I'm glad they didn't get nominated. Not because, like, the sound design is poor, but I'm like, that would have been kind of just a cheap nom.

[B]

Yeah, it's not. It's not necessarily the first thing I think of when I think of oh, Mary.

[A]

For sure. I was disappointed Job was not included here, I thought.

[B]

I agree. I agree. Sorry, we went.

[A]

No, but. No, I agree.

[B]

So soft is so loud.

[A]

No, but that's. That's. That's the. That's. That is an example of that show not running right now is to its detriment. If Job had been running right now, I do think it would have taken either John Proctor or Hills of California's nomination here because sound design was so important to that show and was so well executed.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You had, like, a very visceral reaction to Jobs.

[C]

To me, Job was like, all of my triggers in a closed space of, like, here's what's going to give me an anxiety attack. And it was. It was just.

[A]

For me, this is the year of.

[B]

The theater lover anxiety attack.

[A]

I was gonna say, you guys stop seeing shows that trigger you. My God. Well, you should just go see Boop again. My God. So, Will, you were triggered. Yeah.

[C]

But I, you know, I was also, like, a little proud of myself and being like, okay, I'm making it through. I know I'm safe. But it was like the. The. The way that they made sound come from different spaces, so that it did feel more surround sound. It felt so. Cinematic isn't the right word because it felt like it was in your head rather than in the room.

[A]

Yeah. Very audible theater. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like. Did you guys see the encounter on Broadway?

[B]

I did, yes. I was just thinking about that. Yeah.

[A]

It's.

[B]

It's the most similar without having an actual headset on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%.

[A]

Yeah. I remember.

[C]

I remember Drew Carey Sounds dangerous. From Disney Hollywood Studios. Was that the Broadway adaptation of.

[B]

That's actually crazy. That is very similar to what the Encounter was. Now that we're talking out loud.

[A]

Yeah. Now that you say it, it's like, I can't not think that. So I think I just love narrative.

[B]

Yeah. Big family over here. Huge. Huge Drew Carey family.

[A]

Okay. Sound design of a musical.

[B]

We.

[A]

We have Buena Vista Social Club, Sunset Boulevard. Just in Time, maybe Happy Ending and Floyd Collins. I predicted four out of these five with a. With a caveat on Just In Time that I was like, she's. Knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door. Uh, what did I have? Oh, I think I said Dead Outlaw was. Was my. That was my fifth. And I was like. And I was like, Just In Time could be swapped out for. Honestly, any of them. Like, just based on how people feel. Thoughts on these sound design nominations.

[B]

I was happy for the Floyd Collins.

[A]

I was thrilled.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Listen, there are a couple of nominations Floyd Collins got today that I'm like, did my review on Monday influence Tony Nominators? Because it's an influence.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I may have an influence.

[C]

I'm also going to journalism shouting Floyd Collins for good.

[A]

No, wait, say that again.

[C]

Well, that's journalism helping Floyd Collins for good.

[A]

Exactly.

[C]

Selling tickets above.

[A]

Yes, I. Yes, yes, yes. Journalism is quite the villain of Act 2 of what? Collins is it not a lot of.

[B]

Lot of journalism villain this year. A lot of. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I had a friend reach out to me. Actually, I'll just say it was podmother Ali Gordon. She reached out to me when I was going to see Floyd Collins, and she's like, can you tell me if it's actually good? Because she's like, that New York Times review was crazy because it was a rave, but I'm reading it and it's like, she doesn't understand what the second act is about.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So I'm like, so Ali wants calls.

[B]

Coming from inside the house.

[A]

Yeah. So, yeah. Allie was like, is the production not doing a good job of this or is she just not getting it? It's like eating cheesecake and being like, I love this tiramisu. Like, it is flavorful, just not tiramisu.

[B]

Having a great time.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, that was.

[B]

That was the one that I was probably the most excited about in that category. And then, I mean, one of us. A social club. Because that band.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[C]

With sound design for Buena Vista. I love that. Um, so in when you're miking guitars on on Broadway, it's almost always using this type of pickup that's. It sounds like a little more metallic. It sounds a little more like tinny. Almost tinny. It's. It's measuring the strings and like the soundboard versus the sound around the guitar. And every instrument in Buena Vista was with a physical mic. So it sounded so present and it. Oh, it sounded glorious. I loved how it sounded.

[A]

Yeah. I'm a big fan of when you can truly make the music swim around you in a theater, which I didn't used to think was such a specialty until there were some prominent revivals in the last few years where I'm like, why does this orchestra feel like it's a mile away? Speaking of old friends, I would not have been mad if they got a sound design nomination today. They did not, unfortunately. But when I saw it last night, I was like, oh, this is a 14 piece orchestra. And like, yeah, that's huge. When. When the Sweeney Todd section happened, I was like, this is the water I wanted washing over me two years ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Crazy with like half the orchestra. Yeah, it was amazing. Yeah. I'm trying to think. Yeah. There's nothing egregious here. This is a. There's no nominee that I'm upset about. Again, like Old friends would have been a lovely nomination. Dead Outlaw would have been a good nomination. But like, I can't begrudge anybody here.

[B]

No, no, it feels right.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know who be winning yet. I could. I could give it to any of them here. I feel like Sunset has a good shot because speaking of asmr, the ASMR of it all, maybe happy ending because of like just the techiness of that show. Yeah. Or Floyd Collins because Jeremy Jordan is finally singing with his favorite duet partner himself.

[B]

That's foul.

[A]

No, no, I mean, I mean it all in good jets Jeremy. You know I do. But like when that one. I said it in the review, like the call is one of my favorite things I've seen this season. And I thought that, I mean, just everything about that number worked perfectly. And like sound design is so important in that song. Yeah.

[B]

When we're talking sound design in Sunset Boulevard, how much of that. And forgive, like, my ignorance, I guess I won't.

[A]

But continue.

[B]

When. When. When Joe's doing the walk outside and they're piping it into him and back into the theater, is that. Is that technically in the sound kit? Like. Like, what are we talking about when we're talking about sound and Sunset Boulevard? Like, is that included? What.

[A]

I would say so. Yeah. Yeah. I would say that the sound is included in that. I think, like, it's. It is still part of the sound design. It's not necessarily something that people would think about, but it is part of. Yeah. The fact that, like, it is that it's all happening in separate sections and is sort of all well coordinated, I think that is. That all has to do with sound. Yeah.

[B]

And I don't know that it ever. I mean, knocking on wood. But I don't know that it's. It's ever been. I mean, because it gets filmed every. Every time. I don't know that it's ever even been out of sync, as far as.

[A]

I know it hasn't. No one's ever said that there's ever been, like, a problem with it.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I wonder that performance that they had to cancel due to tech issues, I wonder if they were like, Hell's Kitchen started six minutes late, so we can't do Sunset.

[B]

I don't know. I've seen. I've seen it now quite a few times, and I've seen him take slightly different routes, like, every time, depending on what's going on on the street, which is another. Just like Marvel.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I love theater.

[A]

Yeah. I'm sure they have, like, 12 different contingency plans for it now. It's so. It's so well done. And I'm. No matter what. There are some shows this season where it's like, you can feel cold by it, you cannot like it, but you can't deny the impressiveness of the feat. And whether you think that's artistry or technical is, you know, that's the debate. But, like, there is an impressiveness to it. And the. The opening of Act 2, I still can't rightfully tell you my interpretation of it artistically. People have said it to me and I'm like, sure. I don't know if I buy that, but, like, if that's how you feel, amazing. But, like, I'm impressed. I saw twice, and I was mightily impressed both times. Yeah. And it's not all that really matters. Impress Me.

[B]

Impress me. Yeah, thrill. I mean, thrill me. I was. I'm so thrilled. Every time. Every time it ends and he gets onto the stage and he ends that big note, I go every single time. It's just like you did a physical.

[C]

Gesture when talking about sound design.

[B]

Yes, but because it's so thrilling. It's so thrilling.

[A]

So this will pro. This video will be shown somewhere. I don't know.

[B]

Oh, sure, I'm forgetting.

[A]

No, but it was, like, with no one. They'll be seeing that immediately. The video. Video content for this will be coming out somehow at some point. Don't know exactly what yet, but just so everyone knows. Rachel. No.

[B]

Make it up, Matt. Do. Do. So tell. Tell them what happened.

[A]

She took. She. When she was like. Every time I see it, I go like, she, like, made a fist and it was like a. I can't describe it other than like, you were like a 1950s dad proud of your son in Little League, where you're like, exactly.

[B]

What it feels like.

[A]

You're like, yeah, he hit the ball. It was that.

[B]

That's my boy. Tom Francis.

[C]

Jason hit the ball, Ron.

[A]

Yeah. All right, next up, lighting design of a play. Our winners are. Sorry. Our nominees are Hills of California, Stranger Things. Good night, and good luck. John Proctor is the villain and picture of Dorian Gray. I got four out of five.

[C]

What was the one that you.

[A]

I did not get. John Proctor's the villain, nor did I even think that it was gonna be in there. I think I said it was gonna be McNeil again. I was. I thought they were gonna be a lot.

[B]

I kind of agree with you on that. I. I'm all the other ones. It's like, the lighting stands out to me in that one. John Proctor. I can't think of anything specifically that happened with the lighting where I'm like, oh, yeah.

[A]

I think the scene transitions mostly of, like, because, you know, they would do the specific spots on different girls as you're going to the next scene, and then. Yeah, sometimes it's just like the nuance of day passing or. Or things like that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

We see that happen from time to time. I'm not mad about that nomination for John Proctor. I. For a little more, like, overt nominations. Rip Job.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess that's it. I'm thinking more of, like, the spectacle lighting than the lighting that's so good, you don't even notice it.

[A]

Yeah. Well, if.

[C]

Are you allowed to have a Tony Awards ceremony if Natasha Katz isn't nominated?

[A]

No. And you're not allowed to have one if Katherine Zuber isn't nominated or Derek McClain, and I'm not complaining. Them. Them folks is on the top of their field. Yeah, Cats did Proctor. That's her. Yes.

[C]

Okay, because I don't think Natasha Katz and Hannah Wasileski.

[A]

Okay, because I don't think Katz has a nomination in musical this year. Right. No, I don't believe so. She didn't do Death. She.

[C]

No, but I remember I just read what you. I lost what she did for. For musical that was eligible this year.

[A]

I have no idea myself.

[B]

Accord.

[A]

Oh, you guys sound great. Oh, I forgot to ask. I forgot to test my mic. Do I sound okay?

[B]

Yeah, you sound great.

[A]

Yeah. I don't sound muffled or distant in any way.

[B]

You're going for robot, right?

[A]

Yes, I was. I'm going for distant, emotionally dead homosexual robot.

[B]

You're doing great.

[A]

Fantastic. Then I nailed my assignment. Okay, let me see. What. What did Cats have else this season? She also had real women have curves.

[C]

Oh, she has Natasha. Cats. The Jellicle Ball.

[A]

Oh, yes. She also had a tello. The roommate. A tello. Speaking of things, that Goose eggs today.

[B]

Yeah. Kind of crazy.

[A]

And then. And then the sass of them announcing their recoupment an hour later.

[B]

Well, you gotta get a gimmick. And if your gimmick is worth overcharging for tickets.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Then good for you.

[A]

Their gimmick is we're making money. They're like, good for you. Eureka Day. And how much money did you pull in from Manhattan Theater Club? Oh, we're pulling in over 3 mil a week. And I'm like, okay, okay, that's fine. I did expect Jake, but we'll get to that in a second. So any other thoughts about lightning? Design of a play? Any things here that surprised you or you're happy about?

[B]

No, I'm pretty. Pretty thrilled. It all feels right.

[A]

Can I just say right up front here as we continue with these tech categories, I'm just thrilled that Hills of California did so well tech wise.

[B]

I was so shocked in a very positive way. I was very happy for the production. That's great.

[A]

I was in my living room where I'm currently recording, and with each. I mean, I was too busy typing it all up so I could have the notes. But like, with each tech category that Hills of California got nominated for, I kept just shouting, I feel seen. And again, like, you know, it's never about, like, anyone justifying your personal taste or opinion, but, like, when you feel like you're on an island and no one Else is championing your island. And then all of a sudden, you're like, oh, my God, people are on my island too. It's great.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. Lighting design of a musical. I. Okay. I'm four out of five for this one as well. Sunset Boulevard, Buena Vista Social Club, Floyd Collins, maybe. Happy ending. Got. I predict those four. And then death becomes her, which I think I on Mike was like, I don't know. That's, like, the least techie of the text for me. For death becomes rough, but, like, maybe. And I think I said Dead Outlaw instead. And then, wouldn't you know it, death becomes. We're just like you, Matt Koplik.

[B]

I felt like it was either gonna be Floyd Collins or Dead Outlaw, and it wasn't gonna be both.

[A]

Yeah. I think I also had pirates in here for lighting design and.

[B]

Let's talk pirates.

[A]

Yeah, let's talk pirates.

[B]

Yeah, that's. That's.

[A]

What do you want to talk about, Rachel?

[B]

I don't know. I just. I just was expecting to see it pop up more often, and it just didn't. I was very sad about it.

[A]

I was. I. I can't say I was. Chad. I don't love this revival, but I did expect to see it do a little bit better. And I will say I'm probably sad mostly that, like, I did think it was a very well designed production. And so I was not upset, but, like, surprised that things I thought were objectively quite lovely about it, in my eyes, it knew what it was, and.

[B]

It, like, executed it very well, which I appreciated.

[A]

The things that I have issues with also are not recognized. So I'm just like, okay, you know what? I'm going to just sort of take my W's along with my L's for this one and just. And. And walk away. They did get their revival. We'll get into that a second. But, yeah, no, I agree. I. I was. I was surprised. Sometimes pleasantly, sometimes not pleasantly with what they were left off for, but, like, also with this lightning design category. There's nothing here necessarily that I'm, like, angry about. Death becomes her is the only one that I'm, like, less of. The lighting design for. That was so spectacular. It was. It was very good. But whereas, like, these other four shows, I felt the lighting was a character.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, that's what comes. There was more like the lighting boosted everything else.

[B]

It accentuates. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Which is, like. Nothing wrong with that, too. They. The lighting also helps a lot of the effects of that show, the special effects and death of Conjury wouldn't look as good without the lighting. So I get it. I do get it.

[B]

If you had to pick, like, your favorite from the nominees.

[A]

Oh, my favorite. Like, what would I vote for these five nominees? I would vote for Floyd Collins for sure. Again, if I were to actually. Let me. Let me rank it here, because there's nothing here that I wouldn't vote for. If you're like, Matt, you have to. Cat, you have to cast a vote for maybe happy ending or Rachel's hair will fall out. I'll be like, oh, that's not a problem. I'll happily do it. Um, there are other categories where I'm like, I don't know if I actually would feel good about myself casting that vote, despite what would happen to Rachel's hair. I. Yeah, no, I would. I would probably do Floyd Collins. Maybe happy ending. Second, Sunset Boulevard. Third, Buena Vista Social Club. Fourth. And then death becomes her fifth. But, like, that's what comes. Or for me is like a 9 out of 10 lighting design. So I loved all the purple lights.

[C]

Throughout the house as well. I thought they. They transform the house really nicely. And I'm always appreciative of, like, that full experience that sets the tone before you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Start watching completely. I also. I do want to give a shout out to the lighting in Swept Away. Very beautiful.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And there was another one I was thinking of as we were just talking. Can't remember what it was now. Oh, well, fuck my drag. I forgot there was some. There was some other show where I was like, oh, just in Time. I thought the lighting for Just in Time was very well done, well executed. Have you guys seen. No.

[B]

That's one of our three.

[A]

Okay. Okay. I'll be interested to hear your thoughts. There's some. There are a couple of things that I was very happy about with Justin Times today with nominations. We'll get to her. Okay, so we'll get to costume, sets, and choreography in a second. But first, let's take a quick break.

[B]

Billy, I beg to differ with you.

[A]

How do you mean?

[B]

You're the top. Yeah. You're an arrow color. You're the top. You're a Coolidge dollar. You're the nimble tread of the feet of Fred. And we're back.

[A]

Costume design. Ove play.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We have Good night and good luck. Picture of Dorian Gray. Oh, Mary. Stranger things predicted all four of those. And then hills of California, which I believe I had a knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door instead of English, which I thought was going to get A contemporary design nomination, but a tough.

[B]

A tough get.

[A]

Yeah. But I mean, we have four period pieces and then Dorian Gray, which is like an alien period piece. So I always say, like, it's really hard to go against period pieces. It's. It's. It's just. It's. It's. It's costume design that people who maybe aren't costume designers can recognize. Yeah. But I thought.

[B]

It feels like something's happening.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, I feel. I was sad.

[B]

Sorry, Is that squeaking coming through?

[A]

No, I don't hear.

[B]

No, I was gonna say, if you can hear her playing with her toy, let me know and I'll switch to a different toy.

[A]

Hers. Their dog.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, sorry. Our dog. Sunday Fame.

[A]

Yeah. We didn't want anyone to think that there was, like, somebody randomly in the corner of your apartment.

[B]

Squeaking.

[A]

Yeah. Do you hear that?

[B]

Squeaking Dot is a redheaded model who can't read.

[A]

Squeaky from. Oh, Squeak. Yes. That'll be your second dog. Squeaky from Cute.

[B]

I actually kind of love that, except for the implications.

[A]

Sure. Well, just let people know that they're called Dot and Squeaky. You don't say their full name. Yeah.

[C]

Squeaky, the character from Assassins. Not the. Not the person.

[A]

Not the woman who lived. Yeah. I mean, any. Any thoughts here outside of what I just said? With costume design of a play?

[B]

Yeah. So how many from the. Are from the 50s? What are we. What are we looking at?

[A]

Good night and good luck.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He'll say things. Stranger Things. Yeah. Well, Hills of California is 50s and 70s.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So that helps. And Stranger Things. So. Yeah. Three.

[B]

That's so interesting. And, like, completely different takes, which I kind of love.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Obviously, like, Stranger Things is. How do you. I mean, how would you describe stranger things as 50s?

[C]

It's like 50. Was it 50? Set in 59.

[A]

Yeah. But, like, the. Like, it's a very different tone.

[B]

Yeah, It's. It's like Greece. I don't know. It's like doo wop. But it's Scary Greece. Scary Greece.

[C]

It's like David Lynch Greece.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Where there's, like that rosiness physically, but you're like, oh, something. It's so uncanny. It feels off. And that sets the tone.

[A]

Yeah. It's M. Night Shyamalan's Greece, too, because they're putting on a show.

[B]

Yeah. And let's do it for our country. You know what I mean?

[A]

Let's do it for our country. The red, white and blue. Yeah. There's nothing here that super surprises me. I think I. I should have seen Hills of California's costume nomination be a little more. Not obviously possible. At the time, I think I was nervous that Hills of California was going to underwhelm with nominations, but it being a period of two different periods absolutely helps it. And then. Oh, Mary. I always was like those. It's 1800s, but it's like colorful and gay. So, like, of course they're getting nominated for that.

[B]

It's. Yeah, it's fun. Yeah, yeah. Just. Just for that hoop skirt alone.

[A]

Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Absolutely. God. All of those hoop skirts, hers and. And Louise's.

[B]

Yes. Yeah.

[A]

Super fun. Next we have costume design of a musical Death Becomes her, which is slam dunk. Slam dunk. She's winning that with that bedazzled vagina outfit that Michelle Williams wears. Come on. Just in time. Which we talked about in the predictions. You never ever bet against Catherine Zuber. I never, ever gets to bet one musical from the 1950s coming on through. Boop. Again, no surprise with the black and white to color costume. That was great number. That was Greg Barnes being like, you will nominate me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Buena Vista Social Club, which I also predicted. And then the surprise, maybe Happy Ending. I did. I literally wrote in the Discord Channel before the nominations happen. I was like, I think Death Becomes her might get one nomination more than maybe happy ending. Because, like, they'll get choreography, they'll get costumes, and maybe Happy Ending probably won't get either. And I was like. And then the Tonys were like, you, Matt Gov.

[B]

Like, you know, stranger things have happened.

[A]

It's literally happening at the marquee.

[B]

Yeah, I was sad. It's. It's always tragic when, like, there's a show that's quite literally about making clothes and then it's not nominated for costumes. Like, that was pretty sad for me.

[A]

I was like, for real Women have Curves.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that was. That was sad. But I. I understand it. But at the same time, it's. It's. It's unfortunate.

[A]

My review for Real Women have Curves will be coming out along with Old Friends and Dead Outlaw and probably wonderful Tone at Encores, maybe. Who. We'll. We'll find out soon enough. What I will say is my. When I was predicting it for Tony's, it was a mixture of some of my feelings on the show, but mostly just the general vibe that was going around about it. And I. I did want the show to be a little better than it was. I felt like everything was like 15%, not quite where it needed to be to really, like, hit hard. So, like, I agree with you. Like, I understand the sadness about the costumes and I thought that they did a very nice job. I was like, it just needed, like, one more tweak. And then I think they could, like, I think everything could have sort of fallen in line for, like, musical book actress costumes. Just, like, need a little more. One more snap at that. Because I thought that, like, the curtain call costumes are really what kind of sold it. But everything before that, I was like, oh, this is all appropriate, if not necessarily mind blowing.

[B]

Right? Yeah. It's not Bob Mackie fashion show and the Cher show where it's like, we're actually showcasing these beautiful dresses that they're making. Yeah.

[A]

Yes. Except the Bob Mackie. The Bob Mackie Tony Award. Rachel and Will is one of the ones I dislike the most of the last 10 years. I really dislike.

[B]

That's a separate podcast because if we start talking about that.

[A]

I can't do it. I can't do it.

[B]

Three hours long.

[A]

I can't do it. I already have mentally cut my rant about a certain book writer this season. I'm already. That's already going to be out of this episode. I will keep this because Bob Mackie has so much money and is so iconic and famous and has done such amazing work that he doesn't need my rant to feel bad. But I don't agree with that Tony win at all.

[B]

Yeah. And sorry to trigger you. Speaking of. Speaking of triggers.

[A]

Yes. You're triggered by, like, scary things. I'm triggered by mediocre things.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. I don't. I. I'm a tooth cookie. There's nothing. Maybe happy ending. Definitely surprises me. I'm not angry about it. Mostly I think I was. I'm. I am disappointed the pirates didn't get in here. That was.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A very solid costume design, I felt. But, I mean, it seems that the Tony nominators just were really underwhelmed with that revival, which I can't be mad about. I did think, what if, like, is there a world where mattress surprises with revival and gets, like, one other nomination and it's costumes. But the more I think back on it, the more I. I really just was so underwhelmed at that revival that I'm not mad about it. Yeah.

[C]

Has anything that started at Encores then and transferred to Broadway taken a costume or a design, Tony before?

[B]

I don't believe so.

[A]

I mean, Chicago, I think won one lighting and I think. I think William Ivy Long was nominated for his costumes for that. Don't quote me on that. I think he was nominated. Right. Yeah.

[B]

I feel that's 30 years ago. That's not.

[A]

And also, like, Chicago was a running and was, like, such a phenomenon.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because, I mean, well, are we. Are we, like, sounding.

[C]

Oh, maybe the Gypsy 2008.

[A]

Yeah, Gypsy. The. The Patty Lunchy Transfer. They got a costume nomination at the time, which is also why I thought maybe they would get one this time, but. Sim. Okay. Oh, okay. Sorry. No, remind. Remind me. We got to talk about this later on. As. As Gypsy continues getting nominations later on, but them not getting a costume design nomination today is giving me some flashbacks of a previous revival. We're. Well, we will be discussing putting a pin in it. Thank you. Yeah. Any costume.

[B]

Well, we're gonna be here all night.

[A]

And yet, I did not get a single chuckle from Rachel when she said, stranger things have happened. I'm like, they're literally happening at the marquee. And she was like, yeah, moving on.

[B]

Yeah. Well, it's because I'm traumatized by it. I don't want to think about it.

[A]

I know. But, like, literally, it's Stranger Things. Anyway, sorry, this is.

[B]

Give it to me again.

[A]

No, I can't. I won't do it. The magic's gone.

[B]

Stranger things have happened.

[A]

It's lost. I lost it. I lost it. I can't. I lost it. Now we're done. We lost it. It's ruined. It's ruined. I lost. I lost my big. Oh, the moment's ruined. But every time Will and Rachel are on, it's Will making dad joke so quickly and so quietly that I have to make him repeat it because I'm talking over him. And then he says it. Rachel. And me being like, I hate you, and that's good. And that's stupid. And then me trying to make one, failing. Then making some, like, random ass sex joke, and. And Rachel acknowledging it. Will being, like, so lightning design of a play.

[B]

Like, that's what a dynamic.

[A]

This is our dynamic every time. I love it. And the Discord listeners are so thrilled you guys are back, so thank you for coming back on.

[B]

Very generous to have us. Thank you.

[A]

I could not be more thrilled. Any final thoughts about costumes out of the musical here? Any ones that you're super thrilled about, ones you maybe were hoping to get in?

[B]

No, the. Maybe happy ending surprised me, but, yeah, other than that, it's good. It's all good.

[A]

Yeah, I think we were all surprised by that one. But, like, not in a bad way.

[B]

Just appreciate they kind of maybe happy ending the costumes remind me of like the Sims. Does that make any sense? I mean, I get like with the robots and everything, but like, it's kind of like when you start in the Sims and you're like, randomize and it's like throw a beret on there. Do you know what I mean? I don't mean that as like a. A negative at all, but it's. It's just sort of like where my brain goes costume wise. I'm like, okay.

[A]

I think they would take that as a compliment. I would imagine that that was semi intentional on their part.

[B]

I would hope so if that, if that was the thought.

[A]

Like, I mean, that show is so meticulously designed. I can't imagine that it was. That's the Sims. Do not come up in their conversation.

[B]

Yeah, I spiritually, as someone who grew up obsessed with the Sims.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. Scenic design of a play. Hills of California, Picture of Dorian Gray. Stranger Things Predicted all of those. I did. I say good night and good luck. At first, the, the projections and good night and good luck were deemed eligible with the set design. I'm pretty sure.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Or maybe it was just. It was deemed the lighting, I can't recall. But whenever they were like, oh, yes, this is where the projections are eligible. I was like, oh, yes, they're going to get nominated for that because. Right. Projections are there. And then English, which I wasn't expecting, of all the. Of all of the classroom sets, that was the one I did not expect.

[B]

Yeah. And with English, because of the Todd Hames theater, there's like in the orchestra level and I don't know if these are like lottery seats or if people are buying these, but there's like those weird sort of like side rows. Do you know what I'm talking about? Where it's like the little do seats.

[A]

Next to each other, like underneath the.

[B]

Depending on which way the, the set in English was tilted, those people could not see.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think for that alone, I was like, oh, ineligible. You know what I mean? I was like, oh, this is a. I loved the thought behind it. But if you are creating a set that quite literally then like half the play people in specific seats cannot see anything. That's a huge issue for me.

[A]

Well, you know who's not in those seats?

[B]

Yeah, the people who are voting. I know, but we weren't in those seats either. But I could see them quite literally like, like, like reining their necks out to be able to see something. And I was like, that's really unfortunate.

[A]

Yeah. No, I agree with You.

[B]

But I think in a different theater, you wouldn't have that issue, but it's. You're designing for the theater you're in. Right. So.

[A]

But I think you and I and Will, I'm assuming, but he seems pretty elitist. You and I think of. Of the people when we go see these shows, we remember what it was like to be in the backmost corner of the theater and like, have to strain our necks to see stuff. So even when I have a good seat, if I see other people straining, I'm like, that's. That's a ding for me.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, we get invited to a lot of things now, which is very incredible and I'm very grateful. But in the back of my mind, when I'm. I'm watching things, I'm always like, if I was in the last row of the balcony, what. I like that. Like, I'm having a great time because I'm in a great seat. But what. I like this. If I was sitting in a not optimal seat. And I'm always kind of coming from that perspective because I think you sort of have to. It would be unfair for me to like, go out and be like, it's the best thing I've ever seen. And then like, yeah, it's only because I was like, literally in the perfect spot to witness it.

[A]

So, yeah, that's how I feel right now about a couple of performances this season that. Where people are like, oh, you really need to be up close to appreciate it. I'm like, well, that.

[B]

Yeah, we literally just had this conversation last night.

[A]

So, yeah, they're. I. The. I think the best performances absolutely fill the theater to the back wall. And maybe the closer you are, the more nuances you find and you're like, oh, like things that if I were in the last row, I wouldn't see that. But, like, I still loved it from the last row. I've had people tell me about a couple performances this season. Like, oh, if you were in the mezzanine, like, it didn't register as well as it did in the orchestra. I'm like, well, then that's a. That's a half baked performance in my eyes.

[B]

Yeah, it's tough.

[A]

Yeah. You can do a performance for 1500 people and be like, well, the 800 who are closer to me will. Will appreciate. I'm like, no, there's 700 other people there. Yeah, they spent their money and time with you too.

[B]

And those seats in the back are now very expensive. So what are we talking about?

[A]

Truly?

[B]

What are we talking about if the.

[A]

You know, either theater is elitist or it's for everyone. And it's for everyone. Play that show to everyone. That's. As we get into the scenic design of a musical. That is. My one caveat with the maybe happy ending design is like, there are sightline issues with that one as well. Not big time. Not as egregiously as English. Like, it's not that they're. It's not like the main action you'll still be able to see, but there are details that are. And because I first saw maybe happy ending, not for my presets, but from comps that friends had, and we were towards the side, and I was like, this is really lovely, but, you know, it's whatever. And then I got to go back with my own press deeds, which were dead center. Thank you. And I was like, oh, I'm seeing every show.

[B]

Yeah, Different.

[A]

It's a totally different show. And I'm obsessed with it and it. But it's like, that is a ding I have against it for sure. Which leads us to scenic design of a musical. We have Swept. Yes. Swept Away, maybe happy ending, Buena Vista Social Club, Death becomes. We're just in time. I predicted four out of the five. I did not predict Swept Away, although someone on the Discord Channel did ask the night before, hey, Matt, do you think Swept Away has a shot at scenic design? And I said, sure, anything's possible.

[B]

And you were right.

[A]

They were right to bring it up. And I was right to. I was right to not shoot them down.

[B]

Can we talk about the fact that the only nomination for Swept Away and it's. It's a woman.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

People are screaming misogyny right now with the leading performer categories. And I'm like, hey, the one woman from Swept Away got nominated.

[B]

The one. Oh, I loved it. I said, good for. Good for everybody.

[A]

No, what it is, is. It's the Lucille Bluth meme. Good for her.

[B]

Good for her. Exactly. We'll make it right after we. After we get off.

[A]

I will say I did expect Sunset to get in when they announced that the videography was included in the set design.

[B]

Yeah. Honestly, yeah.

[A]

But I don't know. I guess with Good. Good night and Good Luck and picture Dorian Gray, they're like, we're a little tapped out with screens.

[B]

Screens. I know, but I don't know. I like what Sunset does with the screens more than I like what Goodnight and Good Luck does with the screens.

[A]

Oh, for sure, for sure. Yeah.

[B]

But I. I Get. It's also play versus musical. There's many, many, many, many things.

[A]

But it also has, like, tangible sets in addition to the screen. Like, there are things that pop out.

[B]

On that and the screen. It's. She's acting with herself on. On the different screen. You know what I mean? It's like a completely different thing.

[C]

So there's a coordination level there.

[B]

Oh, insane.

[A]

Yeah. I love that. Sarah Snook, after all those years in succession with Jeremy Strong and Brian Cox, he's like, can I just act opposite myself for a while, please? I need to be alone.

[B]

Please, please.

[A]

Keep me away from these goddamn men.

[B]

Get Culkin down the street.

[A]

Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Any. Any thoughts on these set design nominations? Any that you were sad to see? Not get in?

[B]

Yeah, Sunset for sure. Sunset for sure. I got to experience some of that. I was invited to. To experience, like, tech up close. Like, they took a group of us backstage and we got to, like, have, like, the Norma up close moment. And just how much and how many people go into quite literally that moment during the car chase where it's just like her, like, bathed in light and she's looking so beautiful. It's like how technically complex it was. It makes me sad for them not to get the nomination, but it's also not. The Tony voters aren't having that same experience that I did. So I can. I can appreciate that. They make it look very easy. And I. I can't stress to you how. How many things have to go right at the same time to make, like, that one little moment happen.

[A]

Yeah, I feel that. I absolutely feel that wheel.

[C]

I love that in Death Becomes Her. The Lunt Fontan has, like, these. This kind of pointiness to it. It's very like, I'm picturing these. They're not arches. I can't remember what they're called when it's curving upward and that. That continues into the set itself. Oh, with, like, candelabras and.

[A]

Yeah. Like flying buttresses and.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's into the theater. Yeah.

[C]

It made it seem so much bigger, and I just. From a first impression, I thought that was so fun.

[B]

Dare I say theatrical.

[A]

Theatrical, yeah. So fun fact, by the way, I have a TDF ticket for Death Becomes her tonight.

[B]

Oh, fun.

[A]

I bought. Yeah, I bought it like, three or four nights ago because I. Because I. When the cast album came out, I was like, huh. I think I should give this another go because I liked it last time I saw it in November, and I liked it, but I was I heard so much about, like, oh, it's the best time since Titanic. I was like, oh, I'm fucking sold. And I walked out. I was like, that was solid. But, like, you know, Jen was really what did it for me. And with the cast album was like, oh, songs that I was, like, iffy on, I'm really liking now. And there's some songs that I still have not totally sold on, but, like, I'm more sold on the score, and I'm more sold on Megan now. I'm like, oh, I want to go back and give this a fair shake. Especially since, like, I gave Gypsy a second shot. I gave. I went back and saw Sunset Boulevard, and I'm. I'm seeing real women have curves a second time. Like, I gave a couple of different shows, like, a few chances. I'm like, let me give that. The concert a second chance. So I bought the ticket, not realizing that it was going to be Tony night the night of the nominations. And I sold. I've been telling people the last few days, I'm like, that's either going to be a rock concert or it's going to be the angriest show those women have ever given. And I'm.

[B]

Oh, you get the former. That's so fun.

[A]

Get the rock concert.

[B]

That's really fun. That. That'll be a fun room to be in tonight, for sure.

[A]

I can't wait. I really can't wait. I'm. That might be like, one of those special evenings, like seeing Color Purple the night before the Tonys and Fun Home the night before it opened where we're like. We all just knew Fun Home was going to win everything. So we're like, we're waiting for the reviews. We're waiting for the reviews. It was, yeah. So good. Yeah. No, I agree with all of you. And I'm actually. I'm happy with the Ways design nomination.

[B]

I am, too. I thought that it was. It was so well done. Yeah, it was so well done.

[A]

I am very mid on that show in general, but my midness has nothing to do with the design. It has nothing to do with the cast. And if, like, it has one representative nomination, I think that's the one again, Rachel, because it is. Who the woman.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yay.

[B]

It's equal rights and equal wrongs.

[A]

Smash, eat your heart out. Okay, we'll do one more, and then we'll take another break. We can either do orchestrations or choreography.

[B]

Let's do orchestrations.

[A]

Yeah. This is why I like you guys. Okay. Best orchestrations we have just in time, maybe Happy ending. Buena Vista Social Club, Sunset Boulevard. I predicted all four of those. And then Floyd Collins, which was my, like, I hope. I really want it. It's knocking on the door. I think I said Pirates originally for my prediction because it was such a, like, rebrand of the music.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah. I was really surprised by that.

[A]

Yeah. But I also did say I didn't love the orchestrations of Pirates. I was like. I just. I was like, this is me going, okay. I think people are gonna, like, appreciate the swing. Even though I thought it was kind of a mess. I was like, I really hope it's just Floyd Collins. And then the Tony voters or Tony nominators listened to my podcast, my Pirates, Floyd Collins Just in Time podcast. And they're like, let's listen to Matt Koplik. He does have the best taste. And so now we have what we have said.

[B]

He's got a point.

[A]

He. He has. He has the one point.

[B]

Yeah. I was surprised by Sunset. I guess I was. I. Not. Not because I. I don't think it's worthy. I think it was just. It would have been an easy one to just. Just not include. I don't know if that makes any.

[A]

Sense at the moment. So when the last time I did predictions or. No, no, it was. I was reading listener predictions, and people had written in Sunset, and I said, like, I don't think it's eligible because it. It didn't sound like a brand new orchestration to me.

[B]

Right. Yeah. I guess that's kind of where I was coming from, too. I didn't even. It didn't even cross my mind as a possibility.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So when they said it, I was like, oh, okay. Yeah.

[A]

Well, so when they announced that it was eligible, I viewed it as the Jonathan Tunick for Mary Lee nomination, where it's like, you haven't rethought this, but it is technically new. And.

[B]

But that's kind of how I feel about Floyd Collins, where I'm like, okay, we can't gettel in, but here's how we like how we recognize. Yeah. How great is.

[A]

I have more. I don't want to say the word respect. Like, I have more appreciation, I guess, for an expanded orchestration than a reduced one.

[B]

Oh, 100%.

[A]

I mean, granted, like, it's really. With Sunset, it is magnificent how they make. I think it's 19 pieces sound like 40. And that's also sound design. And it's the same thing in Old Friends, but also, you know, Floyd Collins went from like a four or five piece orchestra to 11 and. And, like, adding a whole new bunch of instruments. So it is the sound we love from that score, but, like, it's just richer. It's. Yeah. So they did a really good job.

[B]

I was, like, fully realized is how I would describe it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

I'm trying to remember, was there harmonica in the book the first time? Because where I was seated, I got just a perfect view of the harmonica player, and I was like, this is so cool. I've never seen a harmonica player in a Broadway pit.

[A]

Yeah. I think I'm trying to remember the recording of the call, and I feel like there's a harmonica in there, but do not quote me on that. I could be.

[B]

I feel like there is, but I'm like, am I making that up? Because I want there to be.

[A]

Am I Mandela affecting this? Yeah.

[C]

And it could have been on the recording, which are sometimes expanded, but not in the show.

[A]

So I don't. Yeah. I remember there was, when the Falsettos revival came out, people who only knew the recordings came to see it and would write on Broadway World, like, how upset they were that, like, they reduced the orchestra. Oh. They rewrote these lyrics, and some of the lyrics have been rewritten, but a lot of people were like, girl, have you never actually seen Falsettos? Because it is different from March of the Falsettos and Falsetto Land. Like, they made tweaks to it when it went to Broadway in 92. And, like, they expanded the orchestrations for the recording. Same thing with Book of Mormon. It's like nine pieces in the theater. It's almost 30 on the recording. Yeah, yeah. So it's entirely possible that, like. Yeah, they added the harmonica for the recording. And then Gettle's like, you know what I've always wanted in the theater? That harmonica. Yeah, yeah. And it is a way to honor the score, which it's very clear that people love that score and love that show and have a deep appreciation for it.

[B]

Yeah. Me, for sure. It was like a college hyper fixation faux show.

[A]

You know what also kind of blew my mind when I was reading early reviews from previews of Floyd Collins. People who were like, oh, I'm so excited to see it. I like this show. And then they're like, there's no set and Jeremy's in a chair 90 of the time. And I'm like, you said, you know this show.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. What? What did you want to happen?

[C]

Where was the tap number? Why doesn't he use his powers?

[A]

People were, like, sharing photos from like college productions of Floyd Collins. Like, look at the set they made for this. I was like, Floyd Collins has never been about the set. No. In fact, like I would argue like those college productions are over designed. Like it's always been a black box.

[C]

Although giving college students something to do and learn and stretch. It's not necessarily for the show.

[B]

Homies in a cave. I don't know what you want.

[A]

No homie is in a cave. Can I say something very controversial? This is, this is my Jesse Green troll moment here.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So eventually I will do. I will release my what I would have nominated picks, but I will give a spoiler alert right now trolling everyone. I would have nominated Floyd Collins for set design. Whoops. I would have done it. Yeah, I would have done it. That stage deck has fucking tricks and surprises in it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like the. When the moment the. The main platform went up in the call and like Jeremy rose 12ft and then had to like climb down, it was like. I'm sorry, set design nomination.

[B]

Yeah, it's. That's an adult Chuck E. Cheese right there. That's what I, I said. This is incredible.

[A]

That's Jenga in the dark is what that is.

[B]

Well, and. And singing in his ass off.

[A]

So what now, Jeremy aside, it's like. Which we'll get to that when we get to his category. But like just. Yeah, the moment they. They did the calls, like there will be bumps in this production. I'm sure of it. We are talking about Ms. Tina Landau after all. But like this number is so perfect. Perfect that I am not upset. I am not upset. No. And then there was like there were other wonderful highs in that production as well. So like it's. It's not as if like the call was great and it was all downhill from there. Like there were other amazing highs.

[B]

It was all downhill from there in a sense that.

[A]

Oh, I see him. Well, stranger things, Rachel. Stranger things. Yeah. I mean the thing with orchestrations and we talked about this in predictions, like usually it's one of three things. It's a best score nominee. Often the front runner will be nominated as well. Last year with stuff was an anomaly. But usually it's like you have one or you have two or three best score nominees in there for orchestrations. Sometimes a revival that does like a whole brand new thing for it. So Woklahoma or you know, this year got Floyd Collins. You know what I mean? Last year with Merrily wasn't brand spanking new, but sure. Company. Kiss me Kate in 2000. Kiss me Kate in 2019. This is off the top of my head. I'm a Freak. Or jukebox musicals that do funky things with the original material. So here, you know, we have two of those. We have Buena Vista Social Club and Just in Time, which, you know, jukebox musicals that do funky things. We have only one best score nominee, which is maybe Happy Ending, which is crazy. I think officially now winning score, in my opinion, because of this.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then we have two. Yeah. And then we have two revivals. And, like, it's. It. Those are the categories, though. I was hoping, and there's nothing here, that I necessarily would replace it with maybe Sunset Death Becomes her for orchestrations. Because with that cast album, Gunkle, Adam Ellsberg, and I just, like, geek out all the time about how Death becomes her has a cowbell. And I'm like, not since Dreamgirls has there been a fat cowbell on Broadway.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

God bless Harold Wheeler for that cowbell in Dreamgirls.

[A]

And God bless the cowbell in Death Becomes. Right. It's the death. Tell me, Earnest. The.

[B]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[A]

So good. Love it. Love it. Okay, any thoughts on orchestrations before we take a break?

[B]

We love them.

[A]

What are some. Do you guys, like. This is freaky, but do you guys, like, have any favorite orchestrations? Either wins or just in general?

[B]

This is a will question.

[A]

Yeah, I.

[C]

I'm just coming. I.

[A]

What?

[C]

The other. Last night I saw Wonderful Town. The night before I saw Gypsy. And so I've really been thinking about this one orchestrator, Red Gensler, who just finds such perfect little, like, instrumentation choices. He's the guy that added the flutes to put on a happy face in Bye Bye Birdie. And it's like. It's so inspired and it feels natural and, like, you can't hear it any. Any other way.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

If you hear. Put on a happy Face and then you don't hear the flutes, you'll be.

[A]

Like, oh, I don't know what. I don't know what.

[B]

Something's missing.

[C]

Something's missing.

[B]

Yeah. I can't articulate it.

[A]

Yeah, there. There are orchestrators who actually have gone on to shape how we know songs now. Like, well, famously, it's. Who. Who's the orchestra? It's something Hirsch or Hershey. The original Hershey K. Is it Hershey K. Or is that. Was that. Is that a lighting designer?

[C]

Hershey K. Was an orchestrator.

[A]

But I think Hershey K Co orchestrated Broadway's Evita with Weber because Weber did the orchestrations in London and then they brought In a Broadway orchestrator.

[C]

I didn't know he did Evita.

[A]

Yeah. And Weber famously was not happy about that. But there are certain things in that orchestration that are just now part of Evita. So in Rainbow High, when they're doing that eyes, hair, mouth figure towards the end and they have the. The horns doing like that counterpoint. That's Broadway. That's not London. And then also just the vamp for Buenos Aires was never in. It was not in the original concept album. It wasn't in London. Do do, do, do, do, do, do. That's. That came from orchestrator and arranger for Broadway. Also, I love the. The Easter egg of Jonathan Tunick in another hundred people having the Bobby babies in there.

[C]

Oh, it's so perfect. And it's. I didn't hear it until I saw the company documentary and I was like, oh, my gosh. That's been there the whole time.

[A]

Ah, like the whole time. The whole time, the whole time. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I think I just have. I have orchestrators that I love and have just like done amazing work all the time. But I mean, in terms of wins, I definitely love the Kiss Me Kate win in 2000. Those orchestrations rip. I love William David bronze orchestrations for Ragtime Titanic Tunics.

[C]

Titanic win is probably my favorite.

[A]

If I were to pick. Yeah, you know what? I also. I love the orchestrations in Millie and I'm. And I'm. That's one of those.

[C]

Doug Besterman.

[A]

Doug Best Friend. Yeah.

[C]

Producers and Smash this. This season.

[A]

And there. Well, Millie's also. I think it's got two other people. Is Bill Byers one of them? Am I making that up? I feel like there was like one super old school dude who was in there for Millie. It's three people.

[C]

Oh, I could look live this year. I think it might be. Oh, I. I don't have it right now.

[A]

I'm looking it up and I'm. I'm buying us time as I look it up. But it is a. It is a win. I love. And one of those rare wins where it was nominated for score and won orchestrations without winning score similar to Some Like It Hot. But is it. It's Doug Besterman. Ralph Burns. That's what I'm thinking of.

[C]

Oh, Ralph Burns.

[A]

Yeah. Who is it? Who's an OG Dude? This was.

[C]

He did Sweet Charity.

[A]

Maybe he did. He did do Sweet Charity and he did Chicago. This. That might be an orchestration that he got on a technicality. Maybe he did the movie version of Melly and they included some of his charts. I don't know. Because he died.

[B]

Like, he didn't have to be in the room. They were like.

[A]

Well, because he died at the end of 2001 and Millie opened on Broadway and March of O2. But they see they had been in La Jolla earlier, so maybe he was on the team at the time.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Unclear. But just the transition from not for the life of me into the title song, I'm like, yeah, there you go. Orchestration.

[B]

Good.

[A]

Pretty salad. Yeah. Okay, so that's orchestrations. We will come back with choreography directors, book and score and then the final tiers after this break with you. How do you mean?

[B]

You're the top. Yeah, you're an arrow collar. You're the top. You're a coolage dollar. You're the nimble tread of the feet of.

[A]

Are we back? So you guys, thank you. That was for you, Rachel. Yeah. So we said choreography next, right? It was between choreography and orchestration. Okay. Our nominees are Smoosh.

[B]

Why did you say it like that?

[A]

Because I wanted to. Yeah, Smoosh. Smoosh. Death becomes her. Sorry, it's. Let me. Let me do this the way I want to. Yeah, it's Smoosh. Death becomes on her and Boop boop. There it is. There it is. Buena Vista Social Club and Gipsy. So Audra. Gipsy. That's how we're pronouncing all of them. So, yes, it's smashed. Gypsy. Death becomes her. Boo. Bonnet Visa Social Club. I expected pirates or just in time to get here. I was pretty sure Gypsy wasn't getting in after Camille missed out at the Cheetah Rivera Awards.

[B]

Right. Strange.

[A]

Yeah, it is strange. It is strange.

[B]

But.

[A]

But, you know, I get. I think what I'm learning now, similar to a Natasha Katz, similar to a Carrie Young and a Catherine Zuber, is you just don't bet against Camille A. Brown. She just tends to get nominated because a. She is very good at what you do. And I do love her. I was not thrilled with her work on Gypsy, but overall, I'm a big fan of hers. And she just. Girl, girlfriend gets nominated. She, like, she. She tumbles out of bed and stumbles into the kitchen and says, I will be nominated again.

[B]

See you in June.

[A]

Yes. She.

[B]

Yeah, you just let me know what day it is exactly.

[A]

I'm sure, like, every summer she gets her offers and she's like, which one will it be you? See you all in June.

[B]

You're welcome.

[A]

Yes. She's like, you're welcome for the nomination. I've Just insured you.

[B]

Yeah. And how fun.

[A]

And how fun. How nice it must be to be Camille A. Brown. To just know that any production you join, you're like, you'll be getting your nomination in mail.

[B]

And that's. And that's knowing your worth.

[A]

That is knowing your worth. No, I enjoy it thoroughly. What are our thoughts on these. On these choreography nominations?

[B]

I love that whenever it's a social club, it's. They're married in irl, the two of them.

[A]

And see, I did not know that.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, I love that. And then I. And because some. So much of that dancing is. Is pairs. I loved the thought of the two of them. I mean, because obviously, like, we're. We're a married couple too, and we collaborate. So I just loved the thought of them, like, in their living room being like, I have an idea. Like, I. Like, I could imagine them coming up with all of this, even if that's not how it worked even a little bit. And also, not for nothing, I loved all the dancing in Buena Vista Social Club. So it just sort of added to all of it for me. I was very excited to see that.

[A]

Yeah. It. This is the most. I've liked the Justin Peck choreo in theater to this moment. So take that as you will, everybody.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Yeah. I do think that they are far and away the lock to win here. If I were to say there would be a possible upset. While I think Boop is probably the second best round of choreo here, I would imagine Death Becomes her would be a runner up because that'll be among. Among us girls. I am pretty sure that's going to be running still by the Tonys. Smoosh probably will too, but, like, Smoosh is not getting a choreo win for this.

[B]

Death Becomes her is choreo included with, like, the. Down the stair. Like the. The fight. Not fight choreo, but like, the staging of that as. Yeah, like, her falling down the stairs and like, all the. Yeah, all that kind of stuff is that. I. I don't know.

[A]

I. I'm gonna say yes because the way that they've been promoting it on social and on YouTube is like a Chris Catelli dancer collaboration. So in a lot of ways, I think people would look at that as that is dance.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I totally feel that way, but I also get that, like, sometimes the nominations on a technicality, it's like, this counts, but not that. Or what are we considering? I always go back to the life of PI Puppets of it all, where it's Just sort of like, what are we?

[A]

We're like, that was costumes.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. It breaks my heart, but it's fine.

[A]

Eureka Days Revival. You know, sometimes things. Sometimes things are just. The wild west.

[B]

Yeah. 100. So, yeah, I. I totally see it being nominated for choreography when we're taking it outside of the dance itself. Like, when we're taking into account how. When you have the problem of, like, how do we make it look like Megan Hilty's falling down a flight of stairs? What are we doing? Yeah. Like, that's brilliant fun.

[A]

Yeah. No, that mean. That's one of the highlights of the season for me. I mean, listen, Floyd Collins has the call, but death becomes her, has the Fall.

[B]

The Fall. Put it on a T shirt.

[A]

I will, I will. I was trying to think, what's a show that has a fight in it besides death becomes her? Like Pirates. Yeah. Pirates has the brawl. Mm.

[B]

We have. I can't say what this is yet because it's. It's still. It's not been announced, but we have a video where we do exactly this game. I'll tag you in it when we post it. Just listeners. It's like a little teaser for source for a show that's coming in the fall. It's this. You're gonna have a lot of fun with it. But it's. We played a very similar rhyming game while we were.

[A]

Yeah. Maybe that's a good game now for me to play for all these musicals of this season, then, because we have.

[B]

Yeah. Fun.

[A]

Yeah. Floyd Collins is the call. Pirates is the brawl. Death becomes her is the fall. And then, like, what's the shawl? Real one, of course. A real one of curves. That's the shawl. That's the shawl. And I'm gonna say that smashes the stall, and that's all like, oh, and Sunset Boulevard is the hall because it looks like a hallway. I'm. Listen. I'm doing massive reaches right now. I'm like, basically a Reddit thread.

[B]

No, no, no.

[C]

And I'm running through the Alphabet, so.

[B]

I'm like, okay, you're lapping us. We're like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. No, that's fun.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

I don't know. I don't. The zal. The doll. The doll. Now that is the doll.

[B]

The dollar.

[A]

Boop, boop.

[B]

Is the doll.

[A]

Is the doll.

[B]

Easy.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know what else to say about choreography here other than everything here makes sense.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

I, I, I do I did think Pirates was going to be there. I didn't really have Gypsy on the Edge anymore because it had been kind of under performing throughout the quote unquote precursors, which again, I always say, like, they're not real, the precursors. But it does sometimes tell you, like, what people out there are feeling about stuff. And you're like, oh, well, if, you know, this group felt that way, like, it's. There's a reality where this group could feel this way too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it just goes to show that the drama desk nominating committee could not have cared less about Hills of California. And the Tony nominator said, you, Drama desk, you don't tell us what to do.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

That conflict does. That's right. Yeah. I love it. Okay, next up, let's do. Let's do another biggie. Let's do best book. Here we have Dead Outler Death becomes on her Operation. Operation Mince might be Happy Ending and Buena Vista Social Club. I. Okay, so this is when I was talking my predictions and spoiler alert when we get to musical. I had talked myself out of Buena Vista Social Club being nominated for best musical even though I had had it in my list for like five months.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it was because, like, I enjoyed that show and I don't think that that book is awful, but I was like, it is the weakest thing about it by far. And I was like, it's hard for me to nominate Buena Visa Social Club when I'm not sure it'll get a book nomination. And I'm not sure it'll get a directing nomination. Like, how do you get nominated for music without those two? Spoiler alert. They got nominated for those two. But that's when I was like, I think this is where. Where real Women have Curves will show its strength and like, get a book. Better get a score. Get a musical. And then the Tonys were like, yeah, Matt, your gut was right a month ago and you talked yourself out of it, which is sure.

[B]

I mean, but an easy. An easy season to. To do that with.

[A]

I think so. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What are our thoughts on these books?

[C]

We haven't seen Mincemeat.

[B]

Yeah. We haven't seen Men.

[C]

So that is one of our three that. That we are still lacking.

[B]

But I was expecting it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Even having not seen it just the way that everyone was has spoken about it and like, I read the reviews and all that good stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Man, I had such a good time at Dead Outlaw and just the way that it structurally took you on that Journey. Some of the. Some of the setups and jokes that were there were like. It felt very. You know what? This is the only one of these with a narrator.

[A]

Thank God. One of each Social Club has a minor one. He comes out at the top of act one, I think at the top of Act Two. Oh, you're right.

[C]

Orchestrator.

[A]

He's. He's. He's. He's like the herpes sore of a narrator. Like, he pops up every four months. Like, he's not. He's not consistent.

[B]

He's like, and now I'm in it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. He's like, I'm a narrator for right now, and then I'm gonna be in the action. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I'm gonna change pants, and I'll be back.

[A]

I wonder if he had more narration. And then they saw Hell's Kitchen, and they're like, what if we toned down his narration a bit?

[B]

Anything could happen.

[A]

Anything can happen. There have been quite a few narrators in musicals this season. Plays, too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We've had. In plays. We've had a narrator for Yellowface.

[B]

Huh.

[A]

Purpose. Our tune. There's also been. Thank you. This is what I do now. Musicals. Sunset Boulevard, Dead Outlaw, Buena Visa, Social Club. Technically speaking, I'm gonna call Sarah Snook in Dorian Gray.

[B]

Yeah, I would say so.

[A]

I would say so. I feel like there's another one that I'm forgetting. That might be it. But that's a lot.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, it's a lot.

[A]

We got them ballads of Floyd Collins. That's. That's them breaking the fourth wall and narrating to us.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

Also true.

[A]

Wonderful World, James. Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

Narrate George Clooney at the. The very end of Good Night and Good Luck, when he's staring into our.

[A]

Souls or staring into all of us and he says, I am George Clooney and I'm gonna make you feel bad now. Buy some Nespresso pods.

[B]

And that's correct.

[A]

That's correct. Groff sauce. He narrates in. In Just in Time, I was going to say.

[B]

So we haven't seen Just in Time, but the reaction from a lot of people that, like, I really respect their opinion were that they went in very skeptical of jukebox, like, it being a jukebox musical. And they said they loved the format. But I. That's all I know. I, like, didn't want. I didn't want to have it spoiled because I do fully plan on seeing. So I thought perhaps it could end up with a book nomination just because it was a different way of doing a jukebox musical. And that being said, do I know anything? No.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, I don't. I don't. I don't know. But I wouldn't have been surprised, I guess.

[A]

Raquel, you know, many a thing I.

[B]

Don'T know anything about. Just in time for sure.

[A]

Yeah. A book nomination I don't think was out of the cards for this show. It's not the best jukebox bio musical I've ever seen.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

It mostly owes all of its DNA to Jersey Boys. Just like, in pretty much in every sense.

[B]

Yeah. And well, go back to the blueprint, right?

[A]

Well, exactly. Like, to their credit, they went back to the last one that really worked super well. And so they go off of that. They. They do. I don't say they deviate, but, like, it is a lot of Jersey Boys, but, like, watered down with all of the stuff that's happened since Jersey Boys with jukebox musicals.

[B]

Blish splash.

[A]

I call it Splish Sploosh. This is. This is the episode of Rhymes and Me just saying all the titles weirdly. It's the. It's the new way of doing comedic acting on Broadway. You say words weirdly to get a laugh.

[B]

And.

[A]

And I know I'm not wrong sometimes you can if you do it well, like a Jennifer Simard. I don't care.

[B]

Comedy is legal on Broadway, so.

[A]

Comedy is legal.

[B]

Some. Some listeners will know what I'm talking about.

[A]

Don't worry about that. Okay. I don't. I'm okay. So pretty. I don't understand.

[B]

And honestly, God bless. You don't need to know. It's not good.

[A]

Fantastic. Smoosh. So I will say with book. Yeah. Like, just in time. It wasn't a bad book. It. I would say it was probably on par with Buena Visa Social Club. Of like, they both did their jobs, but they are not the things that are the most impressive about those shows. So it is kind of like, it's. It's like pick your poison between those two of like, do you want one that's sort of like a more straightforward narrative that is maybe less like breaking forth Wally in terms of, like, we're Jonathan Groff now. Now we're Bobby Darin. Except we're not totally. And I think I. I guess they just sort of appreciated more the foundation that Buena Vista Social Club sets up more than just in time. And also Buena Vista Social Club, I guess maybe like, because of the Off Broadway of it all, maybe they view it like more quote unquote, artistic. But yeah, I know Just in time is a very fun time. That is what I will say. That's my. There are certain things that they got that I was happy about. I was happy about their costume design nomination, and they've got one coming up that I'm going to talk about that I'm very happy about. Score. We have Dead Outlaw. Death becomes her. Maybe Happy Ending. Mincemeat. And Real Women have Curves. This is one that I got completely right.

[B]

Really.

[A]

I did. I got this one completely right.

[B]

Good for you.

[A]

I said, beep. Could get in there over Real Women have Curves, but I just had a feeling that Real Women have Curves was going to get it, maybe because people looked up David Foster's voting history and weren't happy about it. And so they voted for Real Women have Curves instead of. Well, no, no, no. They don't do that. If they don't do that, some of these people wouldn't be in here as well.

[B]

And you're not wrong.

[A]

They Google David.

[C]

David Foster, and it's like, David Foster Wallace is like, oh, God, I didn't know that. This composer also wrote Infinite Jest. It's like, no, no, you're on the wrong page now.

[A]

Totally, totally. Wrong chapter, wrong pond. Thoughts on these five, y'? All?

[B]

Yeah, it spiritually makes sense to me. So that's where I'm at.

[A]

Similar to Ms. Camille. Similar to Ms. Katz, Ms. Zeber. I have always said it. I'll say it again. Do not bet against David Yazbeck.

[B]

No, never.

[A]

That man has always gotten nominated. I'm pretty sure every single time he's written a score for Broadway, he's gotten nominated. And only one of his musicals did not get a musical nomination, which is Real Women have Women on the verge of a nervous breakdown.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Real women have curves on the verge of a nervous breakdown and would watch.

[B]

I'll say, leaving the theater with the David Yazbeck of it all. Like, I left the theater singing those songs, I feel. And Real Women have Curves as well. I was like, so. It was so hooky in my head afterwards. Those are, like, the two that I left. And I was like, I remember these.

[A]

It's not the same melody at all, but just the. The rhythm of the title song of Real Women have Curves because it's like, Real Women have Curves. But so because of that, I kept walking out of theaters going, we can't be friends.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's on Ariana Grande of, like, Real Women Be Friends. I guess that's just what it was for me. But no, it's a That's a fun score. A lot of beautiful music. A lot of fun catching music. Some actually. Some solid lyrics. They rhyme nozzle with menopausal, and for that we're grateful.

[B]

I appreciated that as a.

[A]

As a woman, as someone who loves a good nozzle. Appreciate.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

As someone who does not experience menopause, will never experience menopause, hopes to never be in contact with menopause. I. I loved that lyric. And I love. I. That was a song where I was like, this is both camp and amazing at the same time.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, I felt that 100.

[A]

Yeah. I was like, if they're. If they didn't play this as well as they are, this would be a fuck you dress from Diana's number. But, yeah, it lands very well.

[B]

No, they play it perfect.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And on score, I like that with Dead Outlaw and Real Women have Curves that you get the sense that.

[A]

That.

[C]

That they weren't just all written on piano, where I think a lot of scores sound like they were written by someone playing a piano.

[B]

Right.

[C]

But you hear so much guitar and you approach the instruments differently, so you're gonna write more for, like, what's comfortable for you to play, and you'll voice things differently.

[B]

And it's the same with Dead Outlaw. We left both shows saying that it's like, this was not written on a piano. And it shows parentheses, compliment, you know.

[A]

Yeah. And nothing wrong with a piano. No. But it's fun to get different sounds in there when you're. When you're writing. Yeah, absolutely.

[C]

The rhythmic elements of real women have curves there. There was just so much of that, like that hemiola rhythm, like the, you.

[A]

Know.

[C]

Like these compound meter phrases snuck into bars of four.

[A]

Absolutely. The thing that I want to say as we talk about score and book for a second book is completely filled. Oh, and did I get book a book? I got almost completely right. Best book is lined up exactly with the best musical nominees. And the thing that I've always said is if you want to win best musical and you are eligible for best book, you have to be nominated for book. If you're not, if you don't get nominated for book and you're eligible, you will not win after that, the next thing then becomes director. So we do have all five nominees here for director. Book one is not nominated for director, and the ones that are eligible for score are nominated. So for musical, it's sort of like the big three down the line, all set up. But then. So then we have to sort of look into the more nitty nominees to figure out sort of hierarchy, I guess, because then director of a musical.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Buena Vista Social Club, maybe. Happy ending. Dead outlaw Death becomes her. Sunset Boulevard. Operation Mincemeat. Missing out probably in place of Buena Vista Social Club, which, you know, I was sort of iffy on both. The other big shocker here for a lot of people would be no George C. Wolf for Gypsy.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

This is where I want to say a little something, something.

[B]

Yeah. Speak your truth.

[A]

I shall. In my predictions, I talked about how I thought Gypsy was gonna get a costume nomination because I said Gypsy tends to get nominated for costumes, except for one time when it didn't get nominated for costumes and also wasn't nominated for director. And wouldn't you know it? That's the last time a Mama Rose didn't win the Tony.

[B]

And that's Bernie.

[C]

Sam Mendez.

[A]

The Sam Mendez Bernie Costumes. Yeah, it was. I don't remember who did the costumes for that one, but when Angela Lansbury did it. Nominated for director, I'm pretty sure. Nominated for costumes One. Tyne Daly. I know for a fact. Nominated for costumes. Fiona VI Aldridge. 1. Bernie. No, costumes didn't win. Patty Martin Pakladinez. Nominated one. Now, listen, Conspiracy tin foil hat theory. Maybe again, this is where my Reddit hand is showing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm just saying.

[B]

Yeah. You're the stats guy.

[A]

Yeah. If we don't look at our history, how are you supposed to learn from it? I'm just saying. Yeah. What do we think of this five?

[B]

Yeah. I was very happy to see Jamie Lloyd, Sunset Boulevard. I was a little bit afraid that it's. You talk to people and it's either they're obsessed with it or they hated it. And I was just afraid that that was gonna kind of shake out, not in his favor, and I think that would have been a real shame. So I was very happy to see the nomination because I think what he did with Sunset Boulevard is insane. Parentheses, compliment. Like, I loved it so much. I love nothing more than taking a piece that people are, like, intimately familiar with and being like, actually, here's a completely different way of seeing it. And it still makes sense. Like that to me is just like the most thrilling thing. So I was very happy to see it.

[A]

Absolutely. I was always. I always felt pretty strong about him being nominated for this. This Sunset Boulevard. And when this production was in London, it was the same thing of the critics were very mid on it, but audiences were so up on it. And then the Oliviers ended up being really up on it. And I feel like that's gonna be a repeat here for this show of.

[B]

Like, I hope so.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, it's such a big swing. And, like, the Tonys have also shown that they're not afraid of revivals. Taking big swings with, you know, the gender bent company, Wokla Homa. Just if you don't have to be, like, a super respectful but, like, kind of careful revival, that might get you a ray from Jesse Green. But if you actually, like, are making a bold choice, that kind of gets rewarded. Also, I was looking back at my notes, so my caveat on Gypsy is if we keep. If we take aside the original production, which is, again, the anomaly, because they won nothing. If. If you're. If your Gypsy production was nominated for director or costumes, your mama rose one, because Angela Lansbury, then it got nominated for director. She won. Tyne Daly was costumes. They won. Bernie. It was neither. She lost. And then Patty. It was director and costumes, and she won. And this Gypsy doesn't have a director or costume nomination now. They have a choreography nomination. So maybe that's. Maybe that is the secret sauce that we haven't had since 1959. I'm just simply saying, statistically, research is our friend. And I have spoken to a lot of people today who were very upset about a specific omission in a major category, which we will get to. And I was like, I don't know if you have been listening to my podcast. Like, I'm sad about it, but, like, you had to be emotionally prepared for it. Yes. Any.

[C]

Is there fuzziness coming through, or is it just my headphone?

[A]

I'm not. I'm not hearing anything from you hearing it either.

[C]

Give me a sec.

[B]

Okay, we're having technical difficulties.

[A]

Technical difficulties? What is this? That one performance of Sunset Boulevard.

[B]

Get the megaphone.

[A]

All right.

[C]

Can. Can you say something?

[A]

Hi, Will.

[C]

Oh, cool. Okay. I think it was just some.

[A]

I don't know, your homophobic headphones. Yeah, yeah, that'll be our band name. Okay.

[B]

That's a good band name.

[A]

It ain't bad. Be Dead Elba. Am I right? So best director of a musical. We're all sort of. We've all said our piece about it. Will, anything you want to say about director of musical here?

[C]

I like these. I think that it's.

[A]

Yeah, it's.

[C]

It's direction that I was like, yeah, this was solid. It was. Everything just was shaped right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I just hope everybody has fun.

[A]

Y' all enjoy your time together. I did say on. On Tuesday, you know, to. Not. Not that I thought it was actually going to happen. Like, if there's a wild card that could happen. I could see a Tina Landau for Floyd Collins happening. Just because, like, she gets nominated, she's got been nominated for worse things. Cough, cough, mother play. Cough, cough. And it's just, you know, this is again, a way to sort of honor her work on the show beforehand. But I. I am not sad that she wasn't nominated. I get it. But I was sort of telling people, hey, just keep it on your radar. It could happen. It could happen. Okay, moving on. Director of a play, English Hills of California. Oh, Mary John Proctor is the villain and picture of Dorian Gray. I was four for five on this. I thought Felicia Rashad was going to get nominated for purpose, but I did say, knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door is Kip Williams for a picture of Dorian Gray. And that is what happened. Thoughts? Prayers, hot takes.

[C]

I love the direction of Dorian Gray. I thought that everything was, you know, there are always cameras. There are always so many cameras on stage for this one. And you are aware of them, but then you stop seeing them and you're looking at the screens. I always feel like you were looking exactly where Kip Williams was telling. And then you realize you're not looking at the person, you're looking at the screen, which is just as you're. You, the audience become as consumed with this image as Dorian Gray does. I thought that was so well done.

[A]

I was.

[C]

I was so impressed.

[B]

Yeah, it's kind of like being on a dark ride.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it is. It is sometimes hard for me to reward impressiveness over engagement. Which is not to say that I was not engaged with Dorian Gray. I was. I got a little off the ride in the last 20ish minutes. But again, overall, the. The just achievement of it is something that you cannot deny. And so I am. I'm not mad at this nomination at all. And I totally get it. There's been a lot of really intricate, phenomenal, and exciting work in the staging field with. With this and, and I hate to say it, two of the most exciting directings of the year coming from London, which is to say nothing of Hills of California and that amazing ensemble work. But just saying, just saying, just saying it is. It should be noted, by the way, that Mincemeat did not get a directing nomination, which I think some people I was actually kind of expecting myself. But this sort of gives us a clue of sort of which musicals have been embraced overall. Okay, let's go into some performances, shall we? Featured actor in A play. Here's the thing about featured performances. I said this already, but both sides of the coin, I was like, this is the Wild West.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's really. Anything could happen.

[B]

Really. Go in any. Give us one second.

[C]

Kerr, Featured actor in a play.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Francis Jew. Bob Odenkirk. Conrad Rickamura. I called those three. And then Gabriel Ebert and Glenn Davis, who I had as possible upsets, but I wasn't totally convinced. I underestimated how much they would love Purpose. And John Proctor is the villain. Rip Bill Burr for Glengarry Glen Ross. You were the best performance in that show. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. Yeah. But I'm not. I'm saying, look at. Looking at this. This is not a bad lineup either.

[B]

No, it's. It's. It's a very cool lineup. It's not. I don't know that I had, like, any of the. I. I don't remember what I had, but I was pretty surprised.

[A]

People were very big on Bill Irwin and Zachary Quinto getting in. Which. Yes. Yeah. Which I thought were kind of long shots. Spoiler alert. Cult of Love ended up. Ended up Goose egg today, which is.

[B]

I really.

[A]

I enjoyed it a great deal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I also get it. That's a case, again, of, like, you closed. And there was a lot. There was a lot of competition.

[B]

A Christmas play. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And we already have, like, one family play dominating this year, and it's like, the one that's still running. And actually, I'm pretty thrilled that Glenn Davis got in for purpose. I don't know if you guys saw Purpose or if. If you saw Downstate at Playwrights Horizons. Downstate to Playwrights Horizons is still my favorite things I've seen in the last, like, 15 years. And K. Todd Freeman, specifically, was like, the performance that's burned in my brain forever. But Glen Davis was so good in it. And I'm glad that he's getting some roses today.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was surprised by the John Proctor nomination.

[A]

I don't know what. In what way.

[B]

Just when I think about that show, I. I get. His performance isn't what I think about first. Although it's like, I know he has to exist for the play to. To work. I was. It was just not what I was expecting, I guess. I can't properly. It's too new. I can't articulate it.

[C]

Wasn't he Robert Hoffler of the rap's favorite part?

[A]

Robert Hoffler? You're gonna bring that name up in my house here, Will.

[B]

I don't even know what that is.

[A]

He's the boomer critic for the rap and he. If anybody sucks more than Jesse Green, it's Robert Hoffler.

[B]

Yes. Yes. And you know what? He's probably thrilled by this nomination. So good for.

[C]

Finally, it's my turn.

[A]

Yes. He, he, he wins.

[B]

Haven't white men suffered enough?

[A]

Well, here's the thing. I do think Gabriel Ebert did a wonderful job. It's like.

[B]

Yeah, I'm not knocking the performance. I was just.

[A]

No, we're knocking Robert hoffler. Yes.

[B]

Yeah. 100%. Yeah.

[A]

Boo. More like the wrap it up. Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Well, not, not robbing Dangerfield.

[A]

Get out of here. The rap. More like your father should have wrapped it up that one night so he wouldn't have to deal with you today.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Just saying. That's. That's my version of Saoirse Ronan's dig at In a Ladybird.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

If you know, you know. But no, I'd like. I think he had such a tricky role because he had to be. And it's. It is a thing about the play that kind of bugs me is that role flips so hard in the second half that I don't see the correlation between the two. And I, I thought it would be more interesting to sort of show how people can still not seem like predators and yet be predators.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And they made him go from like a very quote, unquote innocent seeming guy to like then being an absolutely obvious.

[B]

Like a mustache twirling kind of.

[A]

Yeah. And the whole point of it of, of one of the major themes of the show is, is it's easy to side with victims in a distant setting when has nothing to do with you and you want to, you know, politically agree with that. But then when it's in your own backyard and people who, you know and have been kind to you, you can't. A lot of people can't do the mental cognitive dissonance. Exactly. To fit. To understand. And I would have appreciated a little more of that for us. And I felt that in the second half they made it a little too easy. I do think he navigates it about as well as he can.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And for a role that is like.

[B]

I really enjoyed the performance. I guess. I guess I. When I'm thinking about this season in plays, it feels very stacked, male dominated. So it's just sort of like. And, and again, there's a lot that I haven't seen. So I was just expecting something else and not, not to knock him or his Performance. I. I really enjoyed it.

[A]

And it happens every year, right? Where it's like, there's, like, a couple of nominations where you go, oh, okay, That's. That's. That's what really stuck out to us. Okay, got it, got it, got it. I mean, again, with Bill Burr not being acknowledged, James Scully or Andrew burn up and Othello, I'm like, yeah, yeah.

[B]

See? Yeah. And that's really it.

[A]

And Andrew Burn up in Othello. I said it before. He is, in my opinion, the best performance in that production. Yeah, he's up. He walks away with it, imo. But so. So for these guys to get in, like, again, it's just, like, should be noted. Huge congrats. And, like, yeah, yeah.

[B]

I was happy to see Conrad. I really liked how tortured his Abe Lincoln was.

[A]

I always knew he was going to get in. The man receives fellatio on stage. He was. He was not going to knock it in.

[B]

I do. I do love to see it. What are you gonna do? What are you gonna do?

[A]

Listen, we all have our things, okay? I love watching Andrew Burnep in army attire, and you love watching Conrad Ricket Mora's yogurt gun. Yogurt gun get attention.

[B]

So I wouldn't put it that way at all. But sure, I remember.

[A]

That was your wording, right?

[B]

Oh, that's a direct quote.

[A]

Yes. I believe I got that wording from Shakespeare. Yes. I think it was the Tempest that said it, but so is that James Joyce. Oh, James Jumping for Joyce. Okay. Featured actress in a play. Tala Ash for English, Jessica for Eureka Day. Nastrasa for John Proctor as the villain. And Kara Young for purpose. All of whom I called.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In fact, I looked on Gold Derby and saw that everybody was calling, amalia, you for John Proctor, who's wonderful. And I would not have been mad about her getting in, but I was like, why is. I'm like, nobody's predicting Finestrasa. I'm like, I don't. Am I, like, am I the only island? And then I was the island. And then we have Marjan Nechet for English, which is a lovely nomination.

[B]

And I was so happy to see two English noms in this. This category. That was really exciting.

[A]

A couple of the fallen that I would like to just acknowledge here. Helena Wilson, Leanne Best, and Ophelia Lovey Bond, all for Hills of California. I see you. I love you. Amalia, you for John Proctor is the villain. Amber Gray for Eureka Day. I keep butchering her name because I. I practice it. And then when I'm on mic. I choke. But Ava La from English. She's the Ricky Martin speech. Molly Bernard for Cult of Love. And then. And then Alana Arenas for Purpose Love all of you. And in a just world, it would be one giant orgy of like 12 of you nominated. And I would do a round.

[B]

Girls with the crown, baby.

[A]

That's exactly a piece for each of you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I would. And I would host that roundtable and you would all be my best friend. But yeah, I'm. I love this group. I think this is a phenomenal five.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Really exciting.

[A]

Yeah. Will Women. I think.

[C]

The only one I saw of this was English, but, man, I loved it so much. I. I was just like cheering for every single nomination English got.

[A]

Yeah. It was a good day for English fans of the play. Not the language. I just. Jessica Hecht for again. Never count out Jessica Hecht. If the woman could get nominated for summer 1976, which is a chardonnay of a play.

[B]

I remember that's how you described it. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

She. I was like, she's gonna get nominated for Eureka Day where she plays the most granola crunchy Karen and could in fact win. This could be her time. I didn't see Carrie Young in Purpose. She was out the day I saw it. I. I'm sure. And I said, like, she's Carrie Young. I'm sure she brought the young Young to her role, which gets her noticed because she's so good. But the role just did not feel much to me.

[B]

Can I ask a stat question while we're on Carrie Young? Has anybody ever won back to back?

[A]

Judith Light is the most recent one I can think of. She won for Other Desert Cities and Assembled Parties.

[B]

Okay, but.

[A]

And Steven Spinella won back to back for Angels in America in different categories.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Yeah, that makes sense. Yes. It's happened. It doesn't happen frequently, but it's happened enough times that it could happen again, right? Yeah, she might.

[B]

It could happen twice this season.

[A]

It could. She might be. She might have had to have the most consecutive Tony nominations.

[B]

I think she's at three now.

[A]

This is her fourth.

[B]

Fourth. Yeah. Oh, my God, you're right.

[A]

It's her fourth and in the same category. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Crazy.

[A]

Maybe. Lori Metcalf might have a similar track record, but Lori Metcalf I think is all over the place with featured in lead. I think Carry on might hold the record for most consecutive in one category, which is great. Good for her.

[B]

Yeah, she's amazing.

[A]

Yeah. Featured actor in a musical. We have Brooks Ashmanskis for Smoosh, Jeb Brown for Dead Outlaw, Danny Burstein for Audra Gypsy, Jack Malone for Mincemeat, and Taylor Trench for Floyd Collins.

[B]

I gotta tell you, I screamed out loud for Taylor Trench. I really. I really, really enjoyed his performance in Floyd Collins. I was happy for him.

[A]

I was thrilled. And that's. That is the nomination where I am convinced that all the nominators listened to my podcast on Monday, and they went, you know what? I think I will nominate Taylor Trench.

[B]

Yeah. I thought he was so excellent.

[A]

He was. I mean, he. If Jeremy is the glue of that production, Taylor is the. Is the spice that makes it so flavorful, it makes it so memorable, and.

[B]

You know, it goes well together. Is glue and spices.

[A]

I'm sorry, is that not what you guys eat?

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Well, bodies are coming up, kids.

[B]

Summer bodies are made in the winter.

[A]

If you're not consisting on a diet of glue and cumin, then I don't know what your fat ass is doing. But I'm eating glue and cumin. Bloomin Glumin.

[B]

Glue and gloom and doom.

[A]

And gloom and doom. And it's like Job in Arrested Development season four when he's eating nothing but mustard and parmesan.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Ew. I know. So gross.

[B]

So gross.

[A]

That's ultimately what Floyd Collins is.

[B]

We've gone drastically off track.

[A]

Okay, whatever, Whatever. Whatever. I. Okay. I predicted Brooks. I predicted Danny and Jack. I had Jeb and Taylor on my cusp. I. I was gunning for Taylor, but I was like, I don't know if that's actually gonna happen. Rip, Tom Thackson for Sunset. I'm very sad about that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

RIP Tom Sesma for Dead Outlaw. I was hoping we were finally gonna acknowledge you, baby. And then Michael Urie for Mattress, who is the MVP of that revival for me.

[B]

Yeah. I feel that.

[A]

Yeah. Any. Any boys here that you want to just give a quick shout out to for the Fallen? No, I think.

[C]

I guess maybe the. Maybe the David Hyde Pierce of it all.

[A]

He was.

[B]

Yes. Okay. He. He was. Yeah. For lead, and I think that that was a huge mistake.

[A]

I agree. I. I'm assuming that Roundabout petitioned him for featured, and Tony said, no, he's above the title, but they also gave him the last bow wow.

[B]

Yeah, I know. As soon as I saw that, I was like, what are we doing?

[A]

I know. I know.

[B]

His modern Major General was.

[A]

I also think if they did not have the show within a show premise and did not open with him and the guy playing Gilbert, and they just did the show. It would have been a much easier time to pitch him as featured, but he opens the show and then gets the last vow, so it's like people are going to think of him as lead. And George Rose did get nominated for lead in the 80s for it too. But now he should have been featured. Sure.

[B]

Is it the same with Ramin, too? Would that.

[A]

But Ramin was deemed lead and honestly, Brooks should have been deemed lead for Smoosh.

[B]

That's what. Yeah, I've heard again, we haven't seen it so hard, but, God, I thought Ramin was so good at pirates too. I think. Yeah. That's a shame. I'm upset.

[A]

Yeah. I don't think that Ramin was particularly funny for me, but he looked and sounded like a dreamboat, so I'm not mad about watching him and hearing him.

[C]

What impressed me with Ramin was he was. He's competing with the idea of Kevin Klein in the role too. Like, not just in person, but on camera for the role and still managed to be so entertaining. He was. I was really impressed with him physically, with just, like, the tricks he was doing during Pirate King.

[A]

He was very game. I will give him that. Also, I love you say the idea of Kevin Klein. I'm like, is Kevin Klein not real? Is he like Santa Claus? Where?

[C]

I don't know.

[A]

You know.

[C]

You know what I mean? Where it's like.

[A]

No, I know exactly what you mean. Yeah. No, the memory.

[C]

I do believe in Kevin Klein, even if my Polar Express bells don't work anymore.

[B]

Chris Sieber and death becomes her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That was my. That was my big upset.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I forgot all about it.

[A]

Ernest Menville. Damn it. Sturgeon to the stars.

[B]

Puppets. Oh, my God. God, that's one of my favorite numbers.

[A]

Of the whole season. I.

[B]

But I'm a puppet girly, so I'm biased. But what are you gonna do?

[A]

I know you love your pudgy. I do. So when I go back tonight, I'll be interested to see if my thoughts change, because I remember when I saw November, I thought he did a good job. But I also remember outside of that number, he really didn't have much. And when you have a show where, like, Jen and Megan are doing dragons.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, like, Chris has to be their straight man. I was like, I wish he could have a little more. But maybe when I'll go back tonight, I'll see it with a whole new eyes and be like, how is he not nominated? He's got so much grant material. But, you know, it's. It's fine. We love him anyway. It's okay. It's all good. It's all wonderful. Yes.

[B]

He's not going anywhere.

[A]

He's not going anywhere. He's got two nominations at this point. 3. And he's got Spamlot and Shrek. I feel like he's got a third somewhere that I'm forgetting. But, yeah, I mean, also never forget. He plays the masseuse who won't go down on Samantha in Sex and the City. And for that, he will always be legendary.

[B]

Iconic.

[A]

Iconic. He picks and chooses. And for that. And for that, Chris, Eva, you are say with me an ally. Okay.

[C]

Was he nominated for Prom? Was that.

[A]

No, he wasn't.

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay. Brooks was, though featured actress in a musical. Natalie Venetia Belkan for one of his social club. Julia. I thought it was Niddle, but I guess it's Nidal for Dead Outlaw. Gracie Lawrence for Just In Time. Justina Machado for Real Women have Curves. And Joy woods for Audra Gypsy. I am so fucking thrilled Gracie Lawrence got in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I had her on the cusp of my predictions and I said, I'm. I'm manifesting it. Then it fucking happened. Yeah. I called three of these five. I called Natalie, I called Justina, I called Joy. Louise gets nominated every single time. She just. She just do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So when, you know, when Sutton's Gypsy. Gypsy comes out in 15 years, and I am Louise, I will be nominated. It's going to be a Jamie Lloyd Gypsy, all cameras. It's Sutton and me. And Pudgy will be Herbie. And you shake your head now, Raquel, I'm telling you, I'm.

[B]

I'm. I'm more out of everything that you're saying. The least likely thing is that that's Jamie Lloyd's cast. But go on.

[A]

No, it's probably good. Also, I'll be too old for it at that point because Jamie Lloyd likes to cast way young for his shows now.

[B]

Well, and he. He casts in the way that pop girls write their music where the. The narrative of the person parallels the story that he's casting them into, which is why it sudden wouldn't work. It's fine. We can. That's a whole other podcast for a whole other day.

[A]

Well, she. She had a tricky relationship with her mother, so in some ways it could. But no, it's probably gonna be someone from Dance Moms and then me and Pudgy and.

[B]

And that's a Jamie Lloyd product. No, but that's what I'm saying. It's like. Yeah, it would be Maddie Ziegler, Louise Abby Lee Miller, Mama Rose, and like, that's Jamie Lloyd's production.

[A]

And everyone is wearing all black and covered in smoke. What do we. What do we think of these five, y'? All? Anybody in particular we want to just give a little shout out to who maybe didn't get in Jinx, who really.

[B]

Wanted it sounds like we're like big pirate Stans and like, it's. It was very much in the middle of the pack of like, a very, very crowded season. But I do love Jinx Monsoon, and I thought that what she did with Ruth was worthy of a nomination. For me personally, that role is kind.

[C]

Of the classic Gilbert and Sullivan glorified cameo. And it's, you know, she. She introduces some plot, has a funny bit, and then comes back to be like, hey, everybody, listen to me. And everyone's like, no, we never listen to the alto at the Act 1 finale of a Gilbert and Sullivan operetta. Go away. Come back later and have one more song and then you leave. Jinx made that so much more. And I feel like it was more than just the text. It was what she brought to it as a person and as a personality that I.

[B]

And the drag queen of it all. Like, I also was like, this is interesting and this isn't being done. And like, I don't know, there were so many layers where I was like, this is fun and fresh and interesting and I like what she did with it. And I am. I'm sad for the non nomination, but again, really, really tough year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I. I don't know who I would like take out to replace. You know what I mean? It's like, I have.

[A]

I have a person, but we don't know. We're not taking away from anyone's nomination, and we will not take that away from them. I will say I want to give a shout out to Darlesia Searcy and Jenny Harney Fleming for A Wonderful World. All four of those wives are phenomenal, but those two were my major standouts. I also want to give a shout out to Jennifer Sanchez for Real Women have Curves. She plays the worker who is always dieting to get into her wedding dress. I thought she did a lot with not a much. I'm going to also butcher her name. Aline. Maya Goita, who played the worker who ends up getting deported in Real Women have Curves. I thought she did a really lovely job, too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then Jordan Tyson for Gypsy, who once again, I want to. I want to remind everyone this story of when I Went back a second time to see Gypsy at the behest of everyone in my life. And I mostly felt the same way. But I took friend of the pod, Kevin Duda, who had not seen this production yet. And when Jordan Tyson was singing Dainty June and her farm boy, she was doing this. She likes to move in the moonlight. Kevin let out the loudest. Jesus Christ. Because she was singing so hard and so precise and so in the pocket that you could feel it in your butt. And Kevin felt it in his butt and just let out the most involuntary Jesus Christ. Good for her.

[B]

Good for her. Yeah.

[A]

A very good Dainty June. I am so happy about the Gracie Lawrence nomination. It is snaps to her happy for just Cena as well. And I think I'm gonna say this now. I'm gonna predict Natalie here for the win. Oh, I also want to give a shout out to Ashley De la Rosa for real for Buena Vista Social Club. She did not play younger Natalie. She played younger Natalie's sister and I thought took a role that was nothing and two dimensional and she gave it three dimensions.

[B]

Yeah. It was a very compelling role when it shouldn't have been. I'm trying to think of the right way to say it, but. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

No, she made a lot of. Not much.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. I said that was our last break, but guess what, everyone, we're gonna take one last more break with you. How do you mean?

[B]

You're the top. Yeah. You're an arrow collar. You're the top. You're a Coolidge dollar. You're the nimble tread of the feet.

[A]

And we're back. So that's my Seth for Desky, Best actor in a play. George Clooney, which I correctly predicted. Cola Scola, John Michael Hill. And then this is a surprise six person category.

[B]

We have crazy.

[A]

Yes. We got Daniel Day Kim for Yellowface, which I so great. Yep. And I said like I was on the cusp about. I was like, I think he'll. He's could absolutely spoil cuz yellow faces, their PBS broadcast is coming. Lewis McCartney or Louis McCartney who I also had on the bubble of like I wanted him in but I wasn't sure if nominators were going to be willing to go the extra mile for Stranger Things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then Harry Lennox for purpose, which I did not see coming at all. He's very good. But I was like, I did not expect a double nomination in this category.

[B]

Sure. Yeah. Especially. Yeah. Yeah. When you're expecting five.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So I've. All season I've been like why does this name feel so familiar? And it wasn't until you said it that way that I was like, oh, it's because it's reminding me of Mary Lennox from the Secret Garden. And the way that the actress says on the recording, Mary Lennox, like, right.

[A]

At the beginning of the.

[C]

Maybe, like track three or four.

[A]

So that did not occur to me at all until the moment you said, I was wondering why that name sounded familiar. And then I was like, oh, I know where he's going.

[B]

Like, that's crazy.

[A]

A thought I never had once in my life. And then the moment you're like, I had a feeling. I was like, oh, it's Mary Lennox.

[B]

You too. Your brains.

[A]

I know. This is. This is why we don't hang out more. Because I'm pretty sure we would just melt into a puddle on the street.

[B]

And then I'd have to take care of two of you.

[A]

I know. When you already have a dog.

[B]

I do.

[A]

I know. My God. And. And a social media account to, you know, be on top of. That's. That's too much.

[B]

Raquel, what did you say last time? It was like, you have a husband, a dog and a cold. It was so fun. I think about it all the time.

[A]

You were sick. Like, now you have it all. You simply have it all. Yeah. I want to do an rip for the Fallen here of Kit Connor and Romeo and Juliet.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Which when he didn't get the nomination, I was like, oh, I think I. I'm wrong now about Romeo and Juliet getting in for revival. Hahaha. How wrong I was in the wrong way. And then Peter Friedman for Job just. I want to.

[B]

Yeah. He was so excellent.

[A]

Yeah. Whatever anyone's thoughts on Job were, The acting was so extraordinary and he and Sidney Lemonade totally ripped and they should. We want to. We want to pay our respects. Anything here that. I mean, Jake Gyllenhaal and Denzel Washington, famously not in here. I thought Jake was going to get in, not Denzel. But it's like, not a terribly star fuckery category. It's really just George. Like, I wouldn't consider Daniel Day Kim or Cola Skull is star fuckery.

[B]

No, I mean Cola Scola in the theater world, perhaps, but, like, it's deserved. So I'm not. I was happy. I don't know if it's Lewis or Louis McCartney. They said it on TV. Yeah, I think they said it on TV.

[A]

Didn't they mispronounce Nicole Scherzinger on TV?

[B]

Probably.

[A]

Yeah. So do we trust our Louis McCartney.

[B]

We don't. But he really is. I mean, for. Again, as. As hard of a watch that was for that show for me. He really does put that entire show on his back and he's.

[A]

He.

[B]

Like, I just think about like, he has to be in physical therapy every single day. I can't. I can't. Just what he's doing to his body with his body for. I don't even. How. What's the run time on that show?

[C]

It's like a three.

[A]

Almost. Almost three hours.

[B]

And he's on stage the whole time doing just like insane stuff. So shout out to him. That. That's like a Herculean.

[C]

It's like, what if Elle woods was possessed by a demon?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Was really?

[B]

Yes. Yeah. Crazy. So I'm. I'm happy that. That he was recognized because it could have very easily not been the case.

[A]

When he takes off his shirt and shows them abs, I'm like, I know. I know the workout you're getting. I'm not surprised you have a full blown six pack.

[B]

Yeah. I'm surprised they're not more for being honest.

[A]

Yeah. Your six pack should have a six pack. Louis, what are you doing eating bagels at intermission? Come on, kid.

[B]

Yeah. And then the Jake Gyllenhaal of it all in a year where Sadie Sink is nominated is funny to me. In the All Too well Taylor's version of it all. And that's for the girlies that are listening. They'll know what I'm talking about.

[C]

He's still got my scarf.

[A]

Yeah, well, because he's. Isn't he? Also who we are never getting back together is about. Is that the.

[B]

Yes. Yeah. With your indie records that are much cooler than mine is a Jake Gyllenhaal burn.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But yeah. Do you know that the lore of the all too well 10 minute version music video and it's Sadie Sink is playing Taylor Swift.

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay. So All Too well Taylor's version All Too well was written about her relationship with Jake Gyllenhaal when she was 20 years old. Famously did not work out. And when she re released Red Taylor's version because of the. The scooter brawn buying all of her masters. I could talk for literally six hours about all of this, but just condensed. She did a music video for the 10 minute version of the song All Too well. And Sadie Sink plays her essentially. And I can't remember the actor's name, who's playing essentially, like a Jake Gyllenhaal stand in. So for Sadie Sink to be nominated and Jake Gyllenhaal not to be nominated. There is some sort of, like, karma is a cat in my lap because it loves me. Taylor Swift, always on Top. It all kind of connects again. I could go on and on and on, but I'm like, literally, you can't see it listening. But I'm getting closer and closer to the microphone as I'm talking about it because I'm so geeked out about how funny it all is, I guess.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No shade to anybody. It's just sort of like, narratively in, like, the pop culture space. This is a very interesting thing that happened.

[A]

Yeah. Relationships are messy, and Taylor Swift has been known to have messy ones, but.

[B]

And Taylor's referenced quite a bit in John Proctor's the Villain on Top of It, which I found to be very funny watching. Knowing all of the Lord that she is.

[A]

She is. Oh, boy, is she referenced. All the. To quote Taylor Swift is one of my, like, go to lines from that show. Yeah, yeah, It's. This is an interesting six. I. I would probably nix out Clooney here. And if I was allowed to keep it six and nix out Clooney, I would put in Peter Friedman. I probably would also nix Harry Lennox for Kit Connor, but, like, again, I'm not taking it away from anybody. I'm happy that everyone's in, but I do want Kit Connor and Peter Friedman to know that I saw them and I respect them. And I hope Kit comes back to Broadway because that was a wonderful debut.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Really spectacular.

[A]

Leading actress in A Plea. Laura Donnelly. Mia Fadow. Latanya Richardson Jackson. Sadie Sink, Sarah Snook. I got this completely right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Across the board. I did want Cindy Lemon in there, but I knew that was a long shot. I figured the only person she could possibly take out would be Mia Farrow, just because that show closed a while ago and it wasn't like it was sort of tepidly received. But everyone did agree that, like, Mia was a surprise and she was. She was good. She did a good job.

[B]

Debut, wasn't it?

[A]

No, she had done two shows. She done Love Letters. I actually, I saw her in Love Letters, but I think she did something in, like, the 60s or 70s.

[B]

So it's been a minute.

[A]

Yeah. But she hasn't done Broadway in a long time. Yeah, it was muscle. She had to get back. So thrilled for Laura Donnelly. Listen, Sarah Snook has that Tony wrapped up and delivered to her door already.

[B]

If she doesn't, I just don't. There's no justice the only thing I'll.

[A]

Say is that Laura Donnelly was so like, has is burned into my arm. And so, like, I probably would vote for her myself. But also, like, if you were to say, matt, you can't do that, I'd be like, okay, yeah, then Sarah Snoop, no problem. Like, I. I would not lose sleep voting for Sarah Snook in any way, nor would I lose sleep for her winning. It's a wonderful performance. It's fantastic. It's just like apples and oranges of I. What Laura Donnelly did in Hills of California is more my cup of tea in terms of a leading performance. But what Sarah Snook does is bafflingly impressive and good.

[B]

It was one of the craziest things I've ever seen.

[A]

Yeah, no, like, props to your mama. Yeah, yeah. And props to latonya Richardson Jackson. Just. I'm surprised the Tonys went for allowing her and Harry Lennox to go into lead because the only real lead of that show is John Michael Hill. But it allowed purpose to have more Tony noms. And for that we say fantastic. Yeah, yeah. Good for them. Leading actor in a musical. We got another six here, kids.

[B]

Yeah. Crazy, crazy, crazy.

[A]

I got the five of the six.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I got Chris, I'm sure. Yeah. Chris Duran, Francis Groff and Jordan. And then I go hard when I tell you when they were announcing this category on CBS Mornings and they got to James Monroe Iglehart, my jaw hit the floor. Not just because it came out of nowhere, but I was also like, did Jeremy Jordan lose out on a nomination? And then when there was a beat and then they went and Jeremy Jordan for Floyd Collins, I was like, oh, my God. Thank God.

[B]

Oh, my God. Yeah. I mean, the scream that. Because we. Again, we were watching these in a room full of other people who are also very dialed in. It was like, like the scream that got like. It was such a I. A shock, like a surprise and a happy one. I don't want to make it sound like everyone was like, what is going on?

[A]

So unexpected.

[B]

It was so unexpected in a very cool way. I mean, like wonderful worlds. I mean, is he off stage for a second? I mean, it is.

[A]

I couldn't tell you because anytime Durley says C or C or Jenny Harney Fleming were on stage, that's who I was looking at. So as far as I'm aware, he was off stage during those scenes. And that's not a him thing. That's a me knowing when mother's on stage. But no, like, he also co helms the show. So like, it was very much a passion project for him.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So I get that.

[C]

Got book credit.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

Authorship.

[A]

Yeah, Three credit.

[B]

Very, very happy for him that it was a very nice surprise.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But, yeah, same with, like, the Jeremy Jordan of it all. I was like, actually, no way.

[A]

Yeah. For a moment I was like, really did that. Is this happening? And then.

[B]

Yeah. And that would have been two years in a row for him. That would have been very sad.

[A]

Yeah. And this was a year where he deserved it. So, like, let's do it. Let's, let's. And. And they did. They did the correct thing. They did. They were. They. The Tonys did what they needed to do, and we get it. I do want to give respects to the fallen here, David Hyde Pierce, who is the absolute best thing in pirates category. Fraud. I'm not thrilled with where the Tonys deemed him, but it's what they deemed. And then also Gray Henson and Elf, who.

[B]

And let's talk about it. Let's throw a seventh on there. What are. What in the world.

[A]

Yeah. What. What in the wonderful world?

[B]

What in the wonderful. What in the wonderful world is very good. What. What a pitch perfect performance that was.

[A]

And they decided to put that Elf on the shelf. I. Okay, so I. I will say so. I've been speaking for months now about how, like, up until Floyd Collins, Gray was my number one pick for Act 20 musical. Not that I thought he was going to get nominated, but, like, if he. I. That's who I would vote for.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I told him this, and he was like, yeah, thanks so much. Like, I don't. That's not happening, though. I went, okay, okay. And then he got his Drama Desk nomination the day.

[B]

He sure did.

[A]

I text him and I said, listen, I'm not telling you that I manifested this, but I think I manifested this.

[B]

Yeah. And you're welcome.

[A]

Yeah. I was like, you're welcome for your Drama Desk nomination. And he.

[B]

Crazy work. Oh, my God.

[A]

I know. And then when Taylor Trench got nominated today, I was like, I'm. Did I manifest this, too? It's just. Yeah, I think I'm just very influential. But if I am. If I truly am influential, Darlesia Circ would be a Tony nominee today. But it's.

[B]

I also throw out just like a. A John Gallagher Jr. Swept away. I thought he gave a really stellar performance. And I just want to shout out that I. I did enjoy him and Swept Away quite a bit. I thought that he was great.

[A]

So I'd like to give a shout out to Stark Sands. Yeah.

[B]

And what was younger brother Adrian? Oh, I can't remember.

[A]

Brody.

[B]

No, no, I can't remember their name, but I, I, that's funny.

[A]

Stop naming atriums, Matt. No, listen, Stark Sands got swallowed for our sins, okay? I think that deserves some recognition.

[B]

Yeah. Another, Another corpse.

[A]

And listen, I just sat in that theater. I'm like, I'd swallow Stark Sands, too.

[C]

And Conrad.

[A]

And we're where.

[C]

It's just a full season.

[A]

The full season of yogurt Gunsma. Right?

[B]

Where the Boys.

[A]

Where the. There's that. Where's. Is that movie or that song. Where the Boys Are or for the boys.

[C]

Where the Boys Are.

[A]

The Boys Are. My, My, My movie is where the Boys At. Where Are the Boys At? Where the Boys At? Let me add them. I want them.

[B]

Let me. Adam is crazy. Okay?

[A]

It's. My first movie is called where the Boys At? And my. The sequel is called where the Boys at two. Let me. Adam.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Part three. Where the Boys Were.

[A]

Where the Boys Were. And it's. Yeah, it's just every notch of my bedpost. The poster is me escorting the latest boy out of my bedroom. Where the Boys Were. Oh, no.

[B]

It's a good turn.

[A]

Thank you. And then the, and then the fourth one is a prequel, and it's called where the Boys have Been. Or no, sorry, the prequels. Where the Boys Are Going is the prequel. Actually. Rachel's looking at the nominee. She's like, let's get back on track. No, no, no, no, no, no.

[C]

Where the Boys At? And I'm surprised it didn't get any nominations this season.

[A]

Which one? Where the Boys At? Where the Boys At? Yeah, it was a little too controversial for the Tony nominating committee. They're like, we, like, we're okay with implied fellatio under a desk mat. We're not ready for full blown seeing it on stage. And I said, listen, I am here to push the boundaries of what you're comfortable with, okay?

[B]

And that's theater.

[A]

That's theater. If you want your little safe capitalist Othello, you can go over to the Barrymore. But if you want real art, you will watch. Maybe not me on Tuesday evenings because I'm busy, but my standby fellating. Half the cast was swept away.

[B]

Mandy Gonzalez.

[A]

Mandy Gonzalez. Half the cast of Smoosh and half the cast of Sunset Boulevard on the big screen, because theater is now movies as well. And if, and if, and if that makes you uncomfy, then I guess you're not comfy with art. And that's. And that's. Something commercial theater. Yeah. You just like your commercialism theater. My God. Yeah. Listen, this is. It's a lovely six. A nice. A nice mess around of six. And I'm glad that I got five of them. Correct.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Go me moment. Yeah. Actress in a musical.

[C]

And we've been rooting for Andrew Durant for so long.

[B]

Oh, yeah. I'm really happy with all these. These actors are.

[A]

So he's getting his moment in the sun. I love it. Other people who I love would to get moments in the sun this season who didn't quite get there, but, like, we've also got a few that are getting it, so we champion it. Actress in a musical.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't think my phone has had more common text with the same two words, which was just Helen Shen or no, poor Helen. What the. Helen. Like, all these. All these things. Water Helen. And I'm here to tell you guys, if you listen to this podcast, you would have been emotionally prepared for today because it is sad. I don't agree with it, but I said, y', all, if we're. If we can only get five, and it seems like people are really loving, Death becomes her. Our five are locked.

[B]

Yeah, they're both in because you got.

[A]

Nicole and Audra, who basically were locked the moment those shows were announced.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Jasmine coming out and being like, I am Boop. The Boop is me.

[B]

That would have been. If she wasn't on that list. That would have been insane.

[A]

I was gonna use the exact same word. Yeah, you can. You cannot have Jasmine. Amy Rogers, who is the Boop. The boop is her. She is the boop in all of us. And. Right. And I was like. And if you like, death becomes her. I can't. I could do it because I. I am a sociopath who can make a Sophie's Choice, but I can't imagine those Tony nominators liking Death becomes her. And then being like, I'm gonna vote for one of the two women.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, you do both. I'm like, okay. And then it's like, well, where do we go from here? And with Helen not getting in, this is where, like, the politician in me comes in. I'm like, this actually helps maybe happy ending a little bit, because they are not the leader of the pack. They are equal with Buena Vista Social Club. And Death becomes her with most nominations. And by not having her nominated, it actually weirdly gives them back their underdog status.

[B]

Right. And they need it.

[A]

Yep. That's what they've been running on since they.

[B]

The whole time yes, you're so right.

[A]

Yeah. And, like, they've actually been doing really well, box office wise, for, like, probably like four or five months at this point. Like, they've been in the very safe spot and have been the front runner for musical for so long that people were starting to look for options. Options to usurp them. People. People were really vocal about saying mincemeat was gonna topple it for musical. And I kept being like, I don't know about that, and I think I've been proven right, but.

[B]

And now it's a. It's a whole dead outlaw movement.

[A]

It's a dead outlaw movement, but without Helen, that allows me to be happy. Like, they can make a whole narrative of, like, we're so thrilled. Like, we're also gonna, like, prop her up as, like, the face of our show to remind you of, like, we did. We didn't get nominated everywhere or not a total domination here. And I think if they're smart and they've been smart for a while, so I think I hope they'll do some of that. But I'm not saying that I agree with her omission so much as that if anyone had been listening, they, Their, Their, Their. Their butt would have been prepared for it is all I'm saying. Yeah. Any other omissions in lead actress that were shared about. Oh.

[B]

No, I wasn't surprise.

[C]

I mean, if the rotating third of a tree in redwood, I thought should have been eligible at the very least.

[A]

Well, you and I both know that Stella was deemed featured. Come on. Not this category. I know she's the title role, but she is featured.

[B]

No, I'm, I'm, I, I wasn't surprised. I, I guess for this category, it's like, I've just been waiting for Tony day, so this just feels like another, like, okay, yeah, well, I'll see you in a month.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When things really get interesting.

[A]

I know there were some people who reached out to me that were surprised Adina didn't get in. And I was like, that was anyone who saw Redwood. I think we're all pretty iffy on the only people who've, like, really been pro. That show, to me, have been major Adina lovers. And, like, I support her. I love her. She's my girl. She's my first and only Alphabet as far as I'm concerned. But, like, that shows, in my opinion, not great. And there's only.

[B]

I say it's for people who never experienced, like, a real loss until they were like, in middle age.

[A]

Sure. It's for people.

[B]

Like, people who didn't have to grieve young and, like, had no idea how to do it.

[A]

Have you guys seen that meme where someone put together with the idea of redwood scans like a Jenna Moroney. Jenna moroney project on 30 rocky hours? It's called Redwood, Liz. I play a lesbian New York business, business owner who falls in love with the redwood tree after her son overdoses. I'm like, yeah, that's. Yeah, that's redwood.

[B]

And perhaps if Jane Krakowski was in it, we'd be having a different conversation.

[A]

Except I think, because it scans like a Jenna Maroney project. That's why Idina wasn't nominated, because Jenna Maroney doesn't get awards.

[B]

No.

[A]

She doesn't pick projects that give her the awards. I can't. I can't really deny this. 5. Like, do I have. Do I secretly have my person I would kick out for Helen? Yes. Am I saying it on Mike? No. Sure won't. People can. Can determine for themselves if they want, but this is our five, y'. All. And, like, yeah, I would love anyone to go on Mike on Maine, put their face out there and be like, and here's who doesn't deserve it. And. And, like, say that to their faces with Helen J. Shen in the room and watch Helen J. Shen be embarrassed for them. Right.

[B]

Tough.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, that's a sidebar of just, like, theater. Social media is like. And a warning for, like, young people who are starting to make videos where they're primarily talking and giving their opinions. Like, you have to assume whoever you're talking about is going to see it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If they're not seeing it directly, like. Or like, like, you know, on their fyp, like, somebody who they know is sending it to them. So just. I've just seen a lot of people say a lot of things, and I'm like, this is like, if. If I were the person, I. My feelings would be hurt, or I would never, ever want to interact with you. And those are the same people who are like, why isn't anything happening for me in this space? And I think it's just, like, it's that.

[A]

Yeah. And I think that. And people also need to understand because one of the things apparently going around right now is people shouting misogyny. That we have two leading actor categories with six and two leading actress categories with five. And the bottom line is this isn't anything other than a freak coincidence, because the only way we got six was there had to be an exact high for. For those categories. It used to Be if there were three or fewer votes between like the last two possible candidates, we could have more. I believe this is the first year where it has to be an exact tie, which is why we have five for almost everything except for these two.

[B]

How many Tony voters are there if nominators?

[A]

I think we have 52, but I don't know if they are all active because sometimes you have to recuse yourself for any overlap. Voters is about 800 and change. And the nominators do get to vote. It should also be acknowledged. By the way, the nominators do not always reflect the voting pool because a lot of shows that have had the most nominations have not gone on to win the big prize and some have completely blanked. So just because Buena Vista Social Club and maybe Happy Ending Death becomes or have more nominations than Operation Mincemeat, that doesn't mean Operation Mincemeat is. Is out of the running.

[B]

It could be that Great Gatsby won 100% of the Tonys they were nominated for last year.

[A]

Listen, I don't mean to be a beautifully wonderful but slightly dead horse, but we all know about my favorite thing and I'll just say 1994, Carousel had five Tony nominations opposite she Loves Me is nine. And she Loves Me won one. And Carousel won all five. So just saying.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

You don't have to have the most. You just have to win the ones that matter. Kimberly akimbo had like eight against something at Hot's 13, and Kimberly ended up winning the five that mattered. So here we go. That said, like, it does sort of give you an idea of sort of where the community is at with some of these shows. I would say. Yeah, yeah. There's a. There's definitely an ocean between, like a fandom of Mincemeat and what the community's feeling about Mincemeat with the. What the Internet is saying about Gypsy and how the community is feeling about Gypsy. And Gypsy does have actress, featured actor, featured actress, choreography. And Revival 5 is nothing to sneeze at. But no director, I think is very telling. When you have Sunset and even Floyd Collins doing slightly better, it's a little telling. That said Play Revival, Eureka Day called it Yellowface, called it Romeo and Juliet. Weirdly I called it. Yeah, but I thought I was going to call it with a goddamn kid Connor in there. But they said, no, Matthew, we're going to really mess with your head. And then our town, which. Fine, fine, fine. No, it's Ella. No. Glengarry Glen Ross. No Home.

[C]

No Home was the first of the season.

[A]

Right. Like it was.

[C]

Knew anything of the season.

[A]

Yeah. But they kept getting nominated for before the Tonys, which, like, blew my mind. I was like, oh, people are remembering home. When I think of home, I think of a place.

[B]

Yeah, Almost. No Kenny Leon.

[A]

Almost. Yeah. With the exception of the one. Our Town. But this.

[B]

This one.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Crazy for how. How the volume of work this season.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

What were his ones? Home, Othello, Our Town.

[A]

Did he have those four? Yeah, those. It was just those three. And Our Town did get in, but nothing else from Our Town, Nothing from Othello at all, and nothing for home at all. So he's. Yeah, he just got that one nomination this year, which is weird considering how well he's done in the past. Probably victorious Raisin in the Sun, Fences. But yeah, I mean, listen, I've said it before, like, home. I still. I can't tell you much about that show. I don't remember much of it. Othello, I found very dry. Our Town, I was super underwhelmed by. But, you know, I'm not gonna take away that nomination for them. Good for them. It's a brilliant play and it wasn't the worst thing I saw, but I was. I wanted it to be beautiful, and I didn't find it to be beautiful. I liked the lanterns. Don't. Can't tell you what they meant, but I liked them.

[C]

Sometimes they were so people could see.

[B]

Vibes and vibes alone. No, we didn't see it. So I. I'm. I don't even really know what it is you're talking about, but I. I am thrilled for you.

[A]

They had lanterns. Why are you. You're thrilled for me? For. For.

[B]

Because you liked it.

[A]

I liked Our Town.

[B]

You liked the lanterns.

[A]

Oh, I was gonna say, like, are we just simply not listening to anything I said for the last 90 seconds and we just heard lantern turns and went, good for you.

[B]

What?

[A]

What?

[C]

I just heard the stage manager keep saying Bazinga. I was like, what's this about not Bazinga?

[A]

Oh, God. Jim. Credit. He was in a better play this year than he was last year, so good for him. And he had a beard. I'm not talking about Katie Holmes. Bazinga.

[B]

And that's a Bazing.

[A]

No, she's done with that. She's now branching out. Musical Revival, Floyd Collins, Gypsy Pirates, Sunset. Called all four.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Someone. Someone asked if mattress was possible. I'm like, it's definitely the one that's knock, knock, knocking. But I would. I would like to Say one last time before the season officially is over. Elf was the most delightful surprise of the season for me, and I would put it in here today and say it again. Like, the most delightful surprise of the season.

[B]

The most delightful surprise. I was shocked at how much I. How great a time I had.

[A]

It had no business being as. As good as it was.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Good for them. I would actually, you know what? It. I would throw them a choreography nomination. I thought that choreo was good.

[B]

Yeah, I agree.

[A]

Them dancing Santas, they. They did me in.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Thoughts? Well, Rachel, revival musical on Elf.

[C]

Elf was the most together. Like, everyone in the audience was on the same page in a way that I haven't experienced in a while. Like, you know, you'll hear coughing and, like, people around you might be distracted, but everyone at Elf, even though it's mostly a family show, everyone was keyed in.

[B]

Locked in.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. 100%.

[C]

It was really fun.

[B]

Hundred percent locked in.

[C]

Like, something sad would happen to be like, oh, no.

[B]

Like, it felt like everyone flying over the audience at the. Like, just was.

[A]

When. When Buddy started shredding the. The. The. The story, the audience gasped. Yeah, yeah.

[C]

It was like the Hadestown ending.

[A]

It was honestly like when that little kid came out in the Ku Klux Klan hood last year. Inappropriate. It was. It was that kind of gasp. Everyone went, pearls clutched. Yeah.

[B]

Like, no, we were rooting for you.

[A]

We were all rooting for you. Rooting for you.

[B]

Not Drag Race. That's funny.

[A]

Oh, it always comes back to Drag Race. Do it.

[B]

Not always.

[A]

Yeah, always. And Sean Astin being on the Broadway, we love it. That was just so fucking delightful. Gray was perfect in it. I hope that Gray is getting all the opportunities from it because, you know, it was, as I said that, similar to Jeremy with Floyd Collins. Like, that. That show would not work as well as it did if it wasn't for the glue that is that performance. And Gray was so locked in, and it just fit like a glove.

[B]

And the green ensemble, like, yeah, Just everything. Everything across the board.

[A]

Ashley Brown coming back to Broadway sounding like a dream. Michael Hayden reminding us all that he's Juilliard. Like, it was just. It's what I like. It's the things I like. Yes. He's like, I'm a Juilliard trained actor, and don't you forget it. And I said, I want Rachel Lily Rosenbloom. That was just for you, too. No one else. No one else gets that. I don't like that.

[C]

Michael Hayden came out and slapped Buddy and then Buddy said sometimes you get hit real hard and it feels like a kiss. I thought that felt like a departure from the tone.

[A]

Okay. Nora Ephron completely fucking up the quote from Carousel and making everyone. Mandela affecting it.

[C]

That's true.

[A]

That is. Yes. Everyone misquotes that line because of Nora Ephron. And listen, I'm not going to drag her because she can't defend herself, but her sister wrote a play and that play is not represented here. Before we get to finally best musical, let's some honoring of the fallen. Those that blanked completely this season. Home. Otello McNeil. I don't make Neil for any man Job, cult of love, old friends Redwood. Tammy Faye, last five years. Once upon a mattress left on 10th unt. Elf. Yeah, we've made our thoughts clear of the ones that we would have given some. Some love to. Elf. Just know that we all know you were good and it's not your fault that there is some bias to holiday shows. Yeah, we all know you were good.

[B]

Shout out Jason Rob Brown. Orchestrations. Yeah.

[A]

Expanded orchestrations for last five years. Sounding good and allowing those musicians to each have a spotlight for different songs. Yep. Nice. Nice. Oh, did I say Tammy Faye? Tammy Faye as well?

[B]

You did. No, you said it. Yep.

[A]

Yeah. Tammy Faye randomly talking about the gays in the last five minutes when she was like, I couldn't have done that without one specific thing. God, no. The gays. And I'm like, well, the gays weren't anywhere in this show. So apparently you could.

[C]

How come it didn't come up?

[A]

It came up in that moment with aids, similar to Diana. There was a scene where Tammy Faye met aids, but that's all it was.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that.

[C]

And it didn't.

[B]

And it didn't happen that way in real life. And that really upset me. I actually can't talk about Tammy Faye, unfortunately. Too much.

[A]

What do we think of the set design, though? Do we enjoy that set design?

[B]

What? What part of I can't talk about Tammy Faye? It hurts too much? What do you want me to say?

[C]

But surely there are exceptions.

[A]

That is fair.

[B]

They introduced puppets and they never came back. That's what I'll say about Tammy Faye. That's how you lost me.

[A]

Listen. Listen. I say I listen to women and I did not listen to a woman just then. She said she can't talk about it. And I tried to talk about it. That's weird.

[B]

Talk about it if Will wants to listen. Jesus. Take the wheel.

[A]

I know I can't do it. Who am I? A Specific book writer this season. I do listen to women. Okay. So that's all I'm going to say. The best musical we have Buena Vista Social Club, Dead Outlaw, Death becomes on her, maybe Happy Ending and Operation Mines meet. This was the five that I predicted a while ago. Like I want to say back in March with, with half hour and it's what I had up until like the week before. I recorded my final predictions and then I let the Internet dictate my final fifth slot. And I said real, real women have Curves. And I said, okay, Buena Visa, Social Club, you are in the dugout. You are on standby. Like you're, you're ready to go. And I thought when I Visa Social Club, if it were to get the best musical nomination, it would maybe get 5 or 6 noms total. What a fool. I was. Still 4.5 out of 5 ain't bad.

[B]

No, no, it's really good.

[A]

How are you?

[B]

How do you feel? I was hoping for perhaps like a like again if we could sneak in a six. Like real women have Curves. Yeah, I think they could use it number one just for selling purposes. But also there isn't another show on this list like it. And I kind of like that representation too of this like little jewel waitress style store. I don't know, I'm not articulating properly but I, I, I'm not surprised by this list. I would have liked to seen real women have curves on there as well. In addition, not taking anything away from anybody.

[A]

No, I hear you. I think we got because we have like a big, big, big musical. Death becomes her. We have honestly like the smallest of musicals, which I would argue is actually more Dead Outlaw than Mincemeat. Because Mincemeat, while small like is much more like shiny and fun, whereas the.

[B]

Ending is small but big tech.

[A]

Yeah, that's the thing. Maybe happy ending is, is a surprise spectacle. Like it is an intimate show. But they, they have, they kind of have the best of both worlds. I would call that a medium sized show. Then Buena Visa, Social Club, I would call a lavish medium sized show as well in similar vein to Real Women have Curves. And it doesn't hurt to have one more of those guys. Yeah, yeah. But the Tonys have also like in the last few years have really leaned into the smaller musicals. The ones that need the exposure. Which you would think they would do for Real Women have Curves if they really, really liked it. But it seems that they were sort of positive ish on it, not loving.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you think it's because they hate women, Rachel. All of them.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the only explanation.

[A]

Every Tony at the Tonys hates women.

[B]

Yeah, well, I mean.

[C]

Well, they're all named Tony. That's got to just be so.

[A]

And yet they refuse to include Toni Collette. And I'm like, okay, misogyny.

[B]

I mean, look at. Look at all these different. Look at all these categories without a woman in them.

[A]

You know, lead actor in a musical, lead actor in a. In a. In a play, feature actor in a play. No woman. No women in any of them.

[B]

And director. But we're not ready to have that conversation.

[A]

We do have Danya Taymorn.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right.

[A]

And we actually. We had a very banner year last year for female directors. I will say there are. There are probably, like, two shows this season that I would have given maybe a. A nomination to a woman for director, which would have been Lee Silverman for Yellowface or Felicia Rashad for Purpose, maybe even Anna de Shapiro for Eureka Day. But it. I think that's mostly just for the town hall scene that they did because, like, I'm. I don't know. I like Tina Lando. I'm not nominating her for Redwood. I'm just. I'm not. I'm. I won't do it, Rachel. I will not be bullied by you.

[B]

Yeah, well, you know, women's rights and women's wrongs, Matt.

[A]

So Susan Stroman's not getting a nomination for left on 10th. I'm sorry, but I won't do it. I won't do it.

[B]

Did Susan do left on 10?

[A]

She sure did.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

We have a couple people who had double shows or triple shows this year.

[B]

Yeah, no, it's. It's not that. That's not what I was surprised by.

[A]

No, no, but that's a. That's a. It's an interesting theme this year because we had Stroh with left on 10th and smoosh. We had Landau for Redwood and Floyd Collins. We had Cromer for Dead Outlaw and Good Night and Good Luck. We had Kenny Leon for Home Otello and.

[C]

And everything else in the season.

[A]

Our town, our challenge. Got you. I. I literally was sitting here being like, there was a third, and. What the.

[B]

Was she the one that was nominated?

[A]

Yeah, exactly. I feel like there was. There's one more person who had two shows this year, and I'm just. I'm being dumb about it, but I can't remember. It doesn't matter.

[B]

There's a lot. The volume is crazy.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, Alex Timbers for just in time. And technically speaking, all in which was eligible.

[B]

You're right.

[A]

It was eligible.

[B]

You're right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're right.

[A]

Of course I'm right. I'm a man, Rachel. Just don't tell anybody.

[B]

I'm so sorry.

[A]

I've. Every time I'm like, guys, I'm a man. They're like, yes, you are. Good for you.

[B]

Say, got them out of technicality.

[A]

No, it's never going category. Fraud category is categories. They're like, like, he's technically speaking a boy, but, like, he's a boy man. So, like, I don't know. We'll put him in man category for now. That's our Tonys, Everybody. That's our 20, 25 Tony nominations.

[B]

We did it.

[A]

We did it.

[B]

Wow. Just. I, as somebody who consumed so much theater, if you're a person who worked on a show this season, thank you so much, because this was. This was really something special. This was a spectacular season.

[C]

Really incredible season.

[B]

Yeah, I, I really enjoyed my time at the theater and. Yeah, attention must be paid.

[A]

Attention.

[B]

Did you see him work that into the nominations this morning?

[A]

Wendell Pierce? Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

I said, no, not this.

[A]

Oh, I just, I watched him. Oh, Wendell.

[B]

He said, remember, never forget.

[A]

I also loved Gail saying on CBS Morning, she was like, when the, when the leading actress musical came out, her first thing she said was, I mean, everyone's saying that it's down to Nicole and Audra, but I guess everyone in that category is fantastic. Anyway, anyway, moving on. I'm like, girl, I appreciate you being gay with me right now, but, like, calm down.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just be like, congrats.

[B]

You go to space once and you think you could just say whatever you want.

[A]

Exactly. Leave the opinions on these nominations to me and my friends from this podcast. You already have your money in your space. Let me have my podcast.

[B]

And have you been to space?

[A]

I felt like I went to space when I saw Sunset Boulevard. Well, I was launched on a Rockette. Yeah.

[C]

Flying over Sunset. And that's about going to space. At least for a minute and a half.

[A]

There was a penis rocket. There was a song about a penis rocket. Yeah.

[B]

And. And God bless him.

[A]

I love more songs about yogurt guns. I, I. But anyway, point is, I agree with you guys. This was a very full season. A lot of stuff that I really enjoyed. A lot of diversity in the season in terms of just, like, different kinds of shows. You could appreciate if there was.

[B]

There was one shot for everyone for sure.

[A]

Absolutely. All season long. And it's so hard to make anything in general, it's hard to make anything eventually get to Broadway. And so if you made something that got to Broadway, congrats. If you made something that got to Broadway and got nominated, fucking congrats. And then if you win even more congrats. It doesn't mean anything if you didn't. It is you. You don't need everyone to love what you do. You just need the right 52 people to love what you did to get the nomination. Which is not to take away from those who got it, but it's also not to make anyone who didn't get one feel bad. Like, art is truly subjective. And for every person on this list who has a thousand people in their DMs today, I guarantee there are another thousand people who aren't in their DMs who aren't happy and vice versa. So have one hand and have another hand. It's not real.

[B]

And then make them shake.

[A]

Exactly. And make them shake. It's not real. But it matters. It doesn't matter, but it's real. Make them shake, Will. Rachel, this has been phenomenal. Where can people find you if you.

[B]

Want them to find you quickly? Thank you for sharing so much of yourself this season too, and your thoughts and your opinions and you're just so articulate. And the way that you speak about theater is very special. And I'm not surprised that you're constantly getting five star reviews on this podcast. So cheers to you and thank you for having us.

[A]

I appreciate you guys coming back on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we're just lucky that you didn't come on at a time when I got a one star review because I've gotten those and I read. I read them all. Well, but not in front of my friends. I don't wanna. I wanna make it awkward for you. That's.

[B]

That's a later time. No. So you can find us on social media. We're at the Underscore Theater. Underscore Lovers on all major platforms. And on X, it's just at Theater Lovers know the.

[C]

It's on Twitter.

[A]

We call it Twitter or.

[B]

Yeah, sorry, whatever.

[A]

Yeah, Twitter.

[C]

And then we sell [e-mail].

[A]

Yeah, the. Com. If you want to follow me. I'm on Instagram only at Matt Koplik. Usual spelling if you like the podcast. Nice. Five star rating or review would be super helpful. I'm gonna be turning this one out in record time. I gotta do a quick scan to cut the like three things that we said we wanted to cut. Yeah. Whoopsies. Otherwise, I think we should be okay. Rachel, Will, who should we close out with today as our diva?

[B]

You'd think I would have put any thought into this whatsoever.

[A]

No, you were too busy actually thinking about the nominations to think about this. That I just did.

[C]

Jordan. Tyson.

[B]

Jordan, Tyson.

[A]

Just. And I want everyone to listen to it and just think, Jesus Christ.

[B]

Jesus Christ, Jordan.

[A]

Jesus Christ, Tyson. That's gonna be her new equity name. I'm putting it on her on her card tomorrow. All right, thank you so much for listening, guys. Check us back next week when I do my Actually, I'm gonna do one last review episode, which will be Dead Outlaw and Old Friends and Real Women have curves. And then after that, will be my rankings of the season completely. And then I go to London. So I'll probably be like a quick break. And then my episode on the London trip, and that was be it. Thank you so much, Will and Rachel. And take it away, Jordan. Bye. She likes to move in the moonlight.

[B]

When the moody moon appears and when.

[A]

She moves in the moonlight Goes music.

[B]

To my ears she's so musical she.

[A]

Loves a man cow A tan cow.

[B]

Can cow her whip all the way.