Broadway Breakdown: "Tony-Nominee Sally Mayes is here to SING and DISH"

Host: Matt Koplik
Guest: Sally Mayes
Date: February 15, 2024

Episode Overview

In this lively, deep-dive episode, host Matt Koplik welcomes Broadway veteran and Tony-nominated performer Sally Mayes for an unfiltered conversation that takes listeners through the highs, lows, and outrageous moments of her storied stage career. The episode brims with laughs, candid tales of backstage drama, insights on the unpredictable nature of theatrical success, and of course—plenty of showtunes "dish." Sally voices her philosophy on artistic honesty, the thrill of collaboration, and the importance of killing toxic positivity in the theatre. Plus, she teases her upcoming cabaret concert and reflects warmly on the formative roles and mentors that shaped her.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Early Career and Breakthroughs

• She Loves Me (1993 Revival)

  • Sally recounts the serendipitous path to landing Alona: preparing for LA pilot season when her agent insisted she audition for the musical (03:34).

    "I had a place to stay. I was ready to go. And I got a call from my agent...I just have a feeling about this." —Sally Mayes (03:35)

  • Shares the Hal Prince backstory and working under Scott Ellis, explaining the series of callbacks and the strange, last-minute offer after Andrea Martin bowed out (04:34–05:59).
  • Contrasts working with both Judy Kuhn and Diane Fratantoni as Amalia, unpacking the different energies they brought to the show (02:54).

    "Judy was really thoughtful and really serious. And then she’d open her mouth, and of course, God comes out...Diane was a lot more playful and flirtatious...It was very, very different, and it was wonderful." —Sally Mayes (02:54)

  • Hal Prince's role as her career "champion," even when never actually directing her (06:23).

• Welcome to the Club (Cy Coleman, 1989)

  • Sally narrates her abrupt move into Broadway—an unorthodox audition for Cy Coleman, being cast as a swing, and quickly taking over as lead (08:21).
  • "Showbiz storybook" moments: naive about Broadway norms, winning Theatre World Award, idolizing castmates (13:00).
  • On out-of-town tryouts, backstage chaos, and Marilyn Sokol teaching her to chant for what you want (14:44).

Navigating Flops and Unexpected Success

• Sally discusses being in legendary Broadway flops and developing a performer’s sixth sense—knowing when a show isn’t working vs. when she has to focus on making her part shine (18:07).

  "I have a good sixth sense about my part...If I’m doing the best I can do with my character and it’s not working...then the whole show’s not going to work." —Sally Mayes (18:08)

• The Truth About Critics & Kool Aid

  • Both Matt and Sally talk about the need to “drink the Kool Aid” when developing new shows, even amid doubts (19:22).
  • Surprising success stories: both Closer Than Ever and She Loves Me initially had minimal fanfare but became cult favorites (21:19).

Closer Than Ever & The Art of Song Interpretation

• Closer Than Ever (Off-Broadway, 1989)

  • Insights on the show’s “jewel box” quality, mixed reviews, and key moments like David Shire writing a song for her after learning she could scat (21:19–26:00).
  • Sally treasures these formative collaborations, connecting them to both personal milestones (meeting her husband) and professional ones (long partnership with music director Patrick Brady) (23:19).
  • Notable behind-the-scenes stories: battling illness during album recording, doing choreography on a raked stage (28:37–30:58).

    "I cannot tell you how many times my heel caught on the lip of that stage...I never went in the audience. I am so surprised that never happened." —Sally Mayes (29:28)

• On acting “story songs” like "Trip to the Library" and "Ms. Bird":

  "I treat a song like a play, and every play has a beginning, a middle, and an end...If you play the ending at the beginning, you have nowhere to go." —Sally Mayes (54:26)

Pete ‘n’ Keely, Bob Mackie, and Other Gigs

• Pete ‘n’ Keely: Playing a "Steven & Eydie" type in this hilarious musical, costumed by legend Bob Mackie and directed under hard-working conditions—including wearing stilettos so tight she couldn’t sit down (31:11–34:02).

  "Bob comes in with the costumes...he put me in stilettos and I was like, ‘I can’t wear these, Bob.’ And he was like, ‘Your legs look fabulous.’" —Sally Mayes (32:29)

• Gushes about working with George Dvorsky, and recounts plans for more Pete 'n' Keely projects dashed by mixed reviews (21:19).
• Laughs about having to “get the audience in the furthest corner of the room” at intimate cabarets (67:49).

Urban Cowboy and Surviving Broadway’s Changing Culture

• Tells stories of chaos and resilience—naked dancer warm-ups resulting in police calls, struggles with critical reception, joys of working with castmates like Leo Burmester and Jen Colella (69:10–74:31).

  "That show was like being on a southern country Titanic...the police were called because one day the dancers were warming up naked...it was just not what I was used to." —Sally Mayes (69:10, 69:57)

Theatre Philosophy: The Collaborative Process & Killing Babies

• Sally, echoing Matt, rails against “toxic positivity” in modern Broadway and the harm of not being honest for the sake of being nice (75:43).

  "If you think it's all good, then you’re an idiot. And that’s how I feel." —Sally Mayes (77:03)

• She’s a fierce advocate for honesty, storytelling, and relentless self-improvement—citing her new one-woman show as an example of needing to “be ruthless and kill your babies” to make a show better (81:32).

Teaching, Mentoring, and Cabaret

• Sally details her ongoing work as a teacher and artist-in-residence, helping young singers find emotional truth and the importance of storytelling in song (54:26–57:58).
• Previews her upcoming concert series “Now and Then” at Green Room 42, February 21st—a showcase for her jazz and standards repertoire, collaborations with elite arrangers, and a chance to revisit her storied catalogue (63:48–67:27).

  "There’s so many memories connected with every one of these songs and arrangements...it's not even me, it's the arrangements...I feel like I have been so blessed to work with such a caliber of people." —Sally Mayes (63:48)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Artistic Process:
  “When you teach somebody how to do it, you have to think about it, and then you have to verbalize it. And so it’s been so good for me to do.” —Sally Mayes (54:26)

• On the Broadway Community:
  “I miss when Tony Award ceremonies were in Broadway theaters because that meant the majority of the room had to be the community...you got a sense from the ceremony what were the shows the Broadway community was really behind.” —Matt Koplik (40:40)

• On Surviving Flops:
  “My favorite song in [Welcome to the Club] was called ‘don’t fuck around with your mother in law.’ It was hilarious. But when the critics wrote about it—cricket, cricket.” —Sally Mayes (17:00)

• On Confidence vs. Ego:
  "Confidence is knowing you have something to bring to the table. Ego is thinking you have the only thing worth bringing." —Matt Koplik (83:10)

• On Killing Your Babies (theatrical expression): “My director...would say to me, we gotta cut the old lady, it doesn't go and it upsets the flow...I had to have that moment of grieving...you have to be ruthless and you have to be able to see past your own love for your material.” —Sally Mayes (81:32)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:34] — How Sally got cast in She Loves Me, Hal Prince’s influence
• [13:00] — The wild audition and backstage tale of Welcome to the Club
• [21:19] — The unpredictable success of Closer Than Ever
• [28:37] — Recording Closer Than Ever album while sick, raked stage story
• [31:12] — The Pete ‘n’ Keely Bob Mackie fitting and tech rehearsals
• [54:26] — Story songs and Sally’s teaching philosophy
• [63:48] — Green Room 42 show preview and reflections on concert work
• [69:10] — Urban Cowboy: Broadway chaos and perseverance
• [75:43] — On modern Broadway’s “toxic positivity” and the need for honest feedback
• [81:32] — Killing your babies, the realities of writing your own show

Sally Mayes: Where to Find and Upcoming Events

• Concert: "Now and Then: Jazz Standard Time" at Green Room 42, Feb 21, 2024, 7pm (also streaming live)
• Website: sallymayes.net
• Instagram/Facebook: @SallyMayes
• Podcast Host: @MattKoplik

Closing Note

As always, the episode wraps with Sally’s pick for her favorite “Closer Than Ever” tune—“Ms. Bird”—to play the listeners out.

"Go with Ms. Bird, Ms. Bird." —Sally Mayes (86:33)

For deep-dive Broadway geekery, heartfelt tales, and a truly lived-in take on what it means to survive (and thrive) onstage, Sally Mayes delivers in spades. Don’t miss her at Green Room 42!