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- [00:00]
Ariana Grande
Hi, I'm Ariana Grande. Hi, I'm Cynthia Erivo and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network. Visit BPM FM to discover more. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Knowing you could be saving money for.
- [00:17]
Cynthia Erivo
The things you really want is a great feeling.
- [00:20]
Ariana Grande
Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and.
- [00:36]
Cynthia Erivo
Eligibility vary by state. Hey there, travelers. Kaley Cuoco here. Sorry to interrupt your music. Great artist, BT Dubs, but wouldn't you rather be there to hear it live? With Priceline, you can get out of.
- [00:49]
Ariana Grande
Your dreams and into your dream concert.
- [00:51]
Cynthia Erivo
They've got millions of travel deals to get you to that festival, gig, rave, sound bath or sonic experience you've been dreaming of. Download the Priceline app today and you can save up to 60% off hotels.
- [01:01]
Ariana Grande
And up to 50% off flights.
- [01:03]
Cynthia Erivo
So don't just dream about that trip. Book it with Priceline.
- [01:05]
Ariana Grande
Go to your happy price, Priceline.
- [01:09]
Cynthia Erivo
Most people stay and battle on with.
- [01:12]
Ariana Grande
Their boredom, but what's the sense in dreaming dreams?
- [01:16]
Cynthia Erivo
If you ordem it won't be long before I say my ta TA I belong to to the star. Some of us belong to the stars. Up there is where you find me. If you want to come for the ride then form a queue behind me. Hello all you theater lovers both out and proud and on the DL. And welcome back to Broadway Breakdown, a podcast discussing the history legacy of American theatre's most exclusive address, Broadway. Except for this episode, which is British Theater West. I am your host, Matt Koplik, the least famous and most opinionated of all the Broadway podcast hosts. And with me today is a friend of the pod. You haven't seen her in almost a year. And that's because we're doing a repeat of that last time, which is the London trip. Please welcome back to the pod, Danny Tickton Coplek, AKA my mom.
- [02:14]
Ariana Grande
Hey, Matt, how are you? I'm so excited to be on again.
- [02:18]
Cynthia Erivo
We're happy to have you back. I'm good, Mom. We're in London right now.
- [02:23]
Ariana Grande
We're in London and I think we're adjusted to the time. Took like two days, but we're here.
- [02:27]
Cynthia Erivo
Took you two days?
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Ariana Grande
Took me two days.
- [02:29]
Cynthia Erivo
Sorry. Yes. I definitely was starting to fall asleep early Tuesday night when we first got here, but I powered through and I fell asleep at 10, woke up at 5:30, which is a seven half hour sleep and went for a nice long run on Wednesday. So yes, we came to London on Tuesday. What we're gonna do is we're gonna do a recap of the whole trip, essentially, but we're gonna do it in pockets and we're gonna especially highlight the theater that we've been seeing. We are recording this at the end of Thursday night. So we've been here for about two and three quarter days. We landed on Tuesday morning and arrived at our flat in Fitzrovia, which is right above. Not right above, but it's within walking distance of Soho and Piccadilly, which is where most of the shows are. And we didn't see any theater Tuesday. Right.
- [03:21]
Ariana Grande
We learned our lesson.
- [03:22]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes, last.
- [03:23]
Ariana Grande
Last year.
- [03:23]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes, because last year when we saw Mincemeat and were falling asleep during Mincemeat. But also, I've maintained, if we liked the show more, I don't think we would have had as much trouble staying awake. But such is life. We decided to stick it to Wednesday as our first show. So what was our first show On.
- [03:39]
Ariana Grande
Wednesday we got to see the comedy about spies.
- [03:43]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes, this is the newest work by Mischief Comedy. The folks who gave us play that goes wrong and Peter Pan goes wrong and they have Christmas Carol goes wrong coming up in the winter. Now, we saw this after a nice full day on Wednesday. I, of course, went for my very long run. I took the tube to Chelsea and ran all the way back to Fitzrovia and then we went to the National Gallery. We walked through Trafalgar Square. We walked past Big Ben. We did not really visit Big Ben. We had tea at the Dean Street Townhouse in Soho and stopped back at the flat at some point. We went to Tesco and we went to Sansbury. You got to see Tesco again, although this was a less good Tesco.
- [04:22]
Ariana Grande
It was deflating. I had such high hopes based on last year. I used to love Tesco, but it was a shadow of its former self.
- [04:29]
Cynthia Erivo
Well, nostalgia will do that for you. It'll make things seem better in retrospect. But Tesco's great. This is a smaller, less robust Tesco, but we've seen bigger and better ones on our path. After that, we then went to see comedy about spies. So what's. What's this one about? What, what is she? Who is she? What's her life?
- [04:49]
Ariana Grande
Well, it's kind of zany. It's by the same group who write things such as the play that went wrong. It's a great team. It had more of a plot, from what I understand. And this is a spy, obviously, spy show. There's spies and double agents and triple agents. And all I could think of as I was watching it was certainly Praise for Matt DiCarlo because there were so many. I would have thought of a bulletin board with just strings and thumbtacks going in every different direction because there were so many twists and turns.
- [05:26]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. Matty DeCarlo, friend of the. Well, he hasn't been on the pod yet, but he will be soon. He is a brilliant person who has been my collaborator on my play, Yours Truly, and directed the livestream that was done in November. You can still watch that on YouTube if you like. Matty has worked his way up in theater. He started, I think, as a stage manager, then became a company manager, general manager, and then assistant director, associate director, and now he's fully directing. And this is his West End debut. Yeah, it's. It takes place, I think, in 1961 in London. So it's like during the Cold War. And. Yeah, so it's. It's British intelligence, CIA, kgb, and everything sort of comes together in this swanky hotel in London. And there's a major identity mix up where a man who works for a bakery is trying to propose to his girlfriend, but because of some miscommunication, the CIA agents who are there think that he's a spy for the Russians, and the Russians think that he's a spy for the Americans. So they both bug his room, but they. They start switching at each other's buggers, not knowing that they've. That they both have been bugging him. And on top of all this, there's an actor who's in the hotel who's a struggling act, and he's auditioning for James Bond. So they hear him and they think that he's an agent because he's been practicing the script. And it all culminates at the end of act one in this great piece where we see all four hotel rooms in the hotel. And it kind of gives you company vibes because it's four squares. Each room is a major color. So there's yellow, blue, green, stacked.
- [07:00]
Ariana Grande
It's two on two.
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Cynthia Erivo
Yes, exactly. Two on two. And so it's first of all very elaborate, it's very beautifully done. But. But on top of that, you see how everything is working in tandem with each other in terms of the miscommunication. So we know what's actually happening in the room that's being bugged. And then you see what the CIA thinks being said. And then when the Russians switch out the bug and then take their bug back into their room, you hear the CIA hearing the Russians, the Russians are hearing the British baker. And then all of a sudden somebody's hearing the actor in his room. So everything's getting mixed up. There's a concierge who's also getting mixed up in things. There's a whole to do with the baker's ring getting lost and tearing up the floorboards and people falling through the floor. And then Act 2 gets even more crazy with. Even with, as you said, double agents, triple agents. And it's a very elaborate production. Not just in terms of the technical stuff of the staging, but, like, the design is very beautiful and elaborate. Yeah. Those of you who know that play that goes wrong or Peter Pan goes wrong, the whole idea of those are show within the shows and a company's putting on a show and things keep going wrong and it just gets worse and worse until the whole set falls apart in the end. And that's not really what happens here. The whole point of this is that it's, you know, a madcap.
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Ariana Grande
Right.
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Cynthia Erivo
Zany.
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Ariana Grande
And what's. What's interesting is that the. The Americans and the Russians both try to turn the baker and have them have him work for them. And every time he does, he can't help himself and spill stuff anyway. They go back and forth. They sort of toss and. Like a football.
- [08:32]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
- [08:33]
Ariana Grande
Back and forth between them. And what they're after are secrets that are inside this briefcase.
- [08:37]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes, There's. There are plans that the CIA, British intelligence say, you know, the Russians can't get this. It'll be the end of the Cold War, but in a bad way. And so the Russians are trying to get the suitcase and all these things. And there. And there's a talk of a double agent who they're supposed to be meeting, but nobody knows who the agent is or what they look like. Just that they're going to be wearing a green coat. There's a big reveal of who the agent is. We won't spoil it in case you decide to go see it. But the. The constant turning of the baker, it's fun because eventually he gets sort of caught up in it, knowingly. And so it's very. The. The running joke is very reminiscent of the very famous Friends episode where Rachel and Phoebe know about Monica and Chandler hooking up and they're trying to play with them and get them to crack. And then Monica and Chandler realize that Phoebe and Rachel know, and they're trying to get them to crack. And. And Joey knows about both sides. So every time the other group knows, Joey's the one in the middle who always knows. And so it's always that they don't know that we know that they know we know. And so that's the running joke with this, is every time he goes to the Americans and goes to the Russians, he's trying to spy for the Americans, the Russians crack him like a walnut and he folds and they go, okay, so now you're gonna go over them over there and tell them this, because they don't know that we know that they're spying on us. And it just goes back and forth for like a solid 10 minutes.
- [09:51]
Ariana Grande
And wasn't there a bit too about it's the person you least expect it to be?
- [09:56]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes, they said first they go, it's the person you least expect. And then one of the agents goes, jesus. And you think for a second he's like saying, oh, Jesus Christ. But no, he means like, oh, the person I least expect is Jesus. And his cohort is like, okay, it's the person you medium expect. And so, yes, that becomes a running joke of like, it's always the person you medium expect.
- [10:18]
Ariana Grande
You would have thought they would have learned from Operation Mincemeat and just gotten a dead body and planted wrong plants and then got the plan somewhere else.
- [10:27]
Cynthia Erivo
Well, it turns out that there's a whole reason why they didn't do that in the final reveal. Right. About what the plans are or what? Maybe they aren't right. What's it. What's in the briefcase? It's not. Okay, Spoiler alert. Fast forward like 35 seconds. If you don't want to hear this. You find out that there actually are no plans, that there's a bomb inside the briefcase, and that British intelligence knew that there was a double agent working for the kgb. But also through a mix up, the suitcase ended up going. That ended up going to the Russians belongs to the British actor auditioning for James Bond who had stolen Marlon Brando's Oscar. So they open up the briefcase at the very end, and they see the Oscar inside, which means that the actor has the bomb. And so the show ends with you hearing the explosion offstage and you see a silhouette of the actor flying off the pier across the way into the ocean.
- [11:14]
Ariana Grande
Big boom.
- [11:15]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes. But he's screaming, so he didn't die. It made him shoot back. So that's the big reveal about what's inside the briefcase. Other thoughts about the show performances, anything like that.
- [11:27]
Ariana Grande
I thought all the performances were great and I was. I haven't seen the others sort of in the series, but I was extremely impressed with the physical comedy. And to go on for, you know, two hours, two hours or two acts, doing. Doing all that physical comedy must have been exhausting. But, you know, one guy, they're leaping over things and they're flying out of windows and it really was wonderful. There wasn't a dull moment.
- [11:50]
Cynthia Erivo
No, they. They. It starts off very silly. It's not so much that there are any lags, but they don't always go high cap zaniness all the time. They definitely tried to throw in different curves of comedy. So sometimes it's wordplay, sometimes it's physical comedy, sometimes it's a big reveal and they make sure that the plot always makes sense. Like, the first scene is sort of a prologue in British Intelligence. And the running joke is that all of the agents have codenames that are letters of the Alphabet. And people keep each. Agents keep thinking that they're being called into the office because there's agent I and agent O and agent U and agent E and an agent R. And so when someone says, you know, like, something, something, I want you to do this. Yeah. Agent U comes in and goes, yes. He goes, no, not agent U, agent you. And then this is like, why? Why? Yes. No, I don't mean why, I'm asking why. And then there's one where it's like, oh, oh, are you ic. Like, yeah. And. And. And every oh, R, I, C. And they're like, oh, O, R, U, I, N, C. All come in. They go, yes.
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Ariana Grande
Well, it was really. Yes, a riff on British intelligence. But the running joke, too, about the actor who's auditioning for James Bond is that he is not at all familiar with the lingo, right? So he calls it ooh, seven instead of double. Oh, seven.
- [13:17]
Cynthia Erivo
Exactly. And he can't. And he can't remember. It was like, MI6 or something like that. MI5, yeah. So he keeps. He has to write it in phonetically. He has to keep writing it in phonetically into his script. And he's. And he still fucks it up. And he always keeps forgetting that the line is Bond, James Bond. The name is Bond, James. And then looks at his script, he goes, bond, so good. And then. And then on top, and there's a lot. A whole lot of miscommunications. The CIA agent is there and his mother shows up, and they see the British actor and they think he's an agent because of the James Bond stuff. But. And he thinks that they're the casting.
- [13:54]
Ariana Grande
He's the only innocent in the whole thing.
- [13:56]
Cynthia Erivo
Well, he and the baker. Yeah. But. Yeah, until the very end, he is still very much the only innocent. But the.
- [14:02]
Ariana Grande
And a couple of really great sight gags with him, which I won't tell.
- [14:06]
Cynthia Erivo
Very great. Yeah. Very great psych acts. Because he thinks that the CIA agent and his mother are the casting directors for James Bond. So he keeps schmoozing with them, and they're like, what's going on? And the CIA agent's mom's like, oh, my God, he wants a threesome. It's so fun. And there's a whole running joke with Shiraz. Long story short, two agents think, because they overhear the James Bond dialogue when they've been bugging the room, the actors reading the script, and he goes, oh, yes, very clever to be putting a bomb in the. In the Shiraz, which is like, a very James Bond thing to do. Right. It's like, I've got a knife in my shoe. I've got a bomb in my pinky ring. But so he's like, there's a bomb in the Shiraz. So the agents hear that and they think that there's just. They always think they're bomb. So every time they see a bottle of Shiraz, they throw it out the window. It's so fun because it's so dumb, but, like, it's intelligent dumb.
- [14:57]
Ariana Grande
Yeah.
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Cynthia Erivo
I was talking about this with Gilbert and Sullivan, with Maddy afterwards. Like, Gilbert and Sullivan, in my eyes, were the fathers of intelligent dumbness on stage. And. And I think this is a nice sort of continuing tradition of that the British really enjoy smart, dumb humor in a way that I don't think Americans always appreciate. And I think this was just a really good example of that. We started off our theater going on the right foot, I would say.
- [15:20]
Ariana Grande
I would say so, too. And it's really remarkable to hear British audiences so different from American. They are really game and they are in it. They are in it.
- [15:29]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. The. What's the stereotype that British audiences are super reserved? I feel like that's gone away for a long time now. There's. There's always. There's been, like, this. Not urban legend, but. Yeah, there's always been this ideal that British audiences are very reserved and they don't really show their emotions super well. But I would argue probably since the 80s, like, ever since Les Mis and Noises off, they're, like, far more raucous now. They really want to enjoy it.
- [15:55]
Ariana Grande
What year did we go to go to Paris and London with grandma?
- [15:59]
Cynthia Erivo
2000. Summer of 2000.
- [16:02]
Ariana Grande
So with mamma Mia, it was the first time, I think I saw an audience really get into it, singing, dancing in their seats like that.
- [16:09]
Cynthia Erivo
They were super into it. And I was famously, was so unhappy during that show because of how the audience was reacting, because I was being old school British and I was like, excuse you. How dare you sing along. I paid to hear them. I remember the dude in front of us when we saw Mamma Mia. After the actor playing Sam sang knowing me, knowing you, he shouted afterwards, take a bow. I was like, the fuck are we at? What is this bullshit? But speaking of raucous audiences tonight, what did we see?
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Ariana Grande
Tonight? We saw Oliver with an exclamation point.
- [16:42]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes. Oliva. Oliva. This was after we had gone to see the Orwell archives at the London College.
- [16:49]
Ariana Grande
We had a private showing of the. Of the archives.
- [16:53]
Cynthia Erivo
We sure did. Yeah. And afterwards walked a whole bunch around the city. We went to St Paul's Cathedral and sort of walked our way back. Went along Fleet street and then had dinner with my sister Laura, who showed up this morning. And then we went to go see Oliver at the Gielgud. What did you know about Oliver before seeing this show, Mama?
- [17:10]
Ariana Grande
Well, I've seen it, and I just thought, oh, gosh, it's gonna be stale. You know, I've seen this a million times. I've seen the movie, I've seen the show. Not super excited, but my son, we're here to celebrate both our birthdays. So happy birthday, Matt. I just figured, all right, for him, I'm game. I'm gonna go along. That's okay. I'm resigned.
- [17:29]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. And I. I had chosen Oliver. I tried to choose shows that I was pretty sure weren't coming to.
- [17:36]
Ariana Grande
Were not coming.
- [17:37]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. Spoiler alert. One of the shows we're seeing after this, because we'll be ending this section and going to commercial, and then the next section will be us recording, like, two days from now. And one of the shows we're seeing, it's rumored to come to Broadway. We'll see about that. But comedy about Spies, I was pretty sure wasn't going to come to Broadway. I don't think it will. I think it's too expensive of a play to do there. And then Oliver, I was just pretty sure because Oliver so rarely is done in New York. They tried to sort of workshop it at Encores two years ago. I don't know if you saw That I think I took. I think I took Nanny, but it just wasn't great. It sort of showed that the show had a little bit of creakiness to it. But I had heard good things about this production and I said, okay, you know, we'll never probably see a major professional production of Oliver again. And it's England and everyone says it's good, so, yeah, we'll go see it. I will tell you now. I pretty much loved it. What about you?
- [18:33]
Ariana Grande
Oh, my God, totally. I was really into it. And actually we were both saying afterwards that all we had to see was the opening shot of the stage to really, like, get choked up. They did such a great effect when it started. And just the backdrop and everything was fabulous.
- [18:50]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. After the opening number of Food, Glorious Food, I definitely got very verklempt and I was just like, I just love musicals and I love it when they love me back. It's really sweet. I felt I was gonna love Oliver when we sat down and I looked at the stage deck and I realized that it was a turntable because I am a whore for a turntable. And I was like, oh, this Oliver's got a turntable. It's got a. I think it's like a four part turntable, too. It was like, oh, super intricate. Does Hamilton won better? And. Yeah, listen, Art, Do I have notes? Yes. I'm. I'm not entirely sure if we saw the entire company tonight. I feel like we had. I feel like we had an understudy for the Artful Dodger. I can't confirm that. And I can't tell if we had the regular Nancy or the alternate Nancy because it says in the program that there was an alternate, that there is an alternate Nancy, but they don't say which performances, so I can't be sure. And I didn't love our Artful Dodger. I thought he was a little too. I hate to say the word presentational because it is a musical and Oliver is very sort of music hall y. So there is a showmanship about it.
- [19:56]
Ariana Grande
He was like TV commercially, you know, in his forward see me on the screen kind of thing.
- [20:02]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. And like, the thing about the Artful Dodger that makes him hard to cast is he is pretty much a child. But he's got to act like he's an adult. That's part of his humor. He's got the. The confidence of someone three times his age. And. But he's so small in stature, so it's hard to find a kid who can do that. And I wasn't I didn't really. I felt like this kid was trying to act that, but didn't totally nail it. But even. It's sort of a testament to how good this production is that even with a sort of subpar Dodger, I still loved it.
- [20:32]
Ariana Grande
Yeah. I'm thinking, you know, one of the problems with, with this Dodger is it it didn't seem like he had bought into the, the ruse. You know, he was doing the stuff that Fagan wanted him to do.
- [20:46]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
- [20:46]
Ariana Grande
But I didn't feel like he was considering himself sort of a partner in doing this.
- [20:53]
Cynthia Erivo
Consider himself.
- [20:54]
Ariana Grande
I know, I know. I heard myself say it and I just left there.
- [20:58]
Cynthia Erivo
Oliver as a musical has always been weird to me because it's a dark novel with a happy ending. And the musical, I always felt tried to have it both ways, but leaned more towards the light hearted comedy stuff, which never sat right with me. And I thought what the movie did so well was that the movie kept the comedy but always had the underlying darkness there. So the comedy felt like more dark comedy, not sort of upbeat, family friendly, even though it's a family movie. So. And the movie also made a lot of changes to the original script and cut some songs and move some song stuff around. I've talked about Oompapa of it all, but they cut all of Bill Sykes's music, which I thought was for the better, and they added a whole bunch of little pieces of little scenes in the movie to help sort of expand on Bill's character, his relationship with Nancy, his relationship with Fagin. This revival, from what I understand, uses an updated version of the script that the Sam Mendes revival did in the 90s, which itself used changes from the movie as well, including a little prologue of Oliver's mother showing up at the workhouse to give birth, including a scene between Bill and Nancy in bed where she says, you love me and goes, well, I live with you, don't you? That's, that's in the movie. They included a. I guess it's a preamble of Bill Sykes's song My Name. They use it now when he enters in Act 1. And that also is added from the movie because in the original, original 60s script, Bill doesn't show up until Act 2 when he comes out to sing My name, a song that I very much hate. But I felt that this production, maybe due to the aesthetic of the staging of the lighting of the set and all that, it kept the show not ever looking super cheesy. So even when there was like cheesy comedy Happening because of sort of the velvety lighting and the shadows and the dinginess of the set. It never felt schmaltzy.
- [22:56]
Ariana Grande
It also felt extremely intimate. And I think that's because of the size of the theater. The Gielgud was perfect for it. And we were sitting in the dress circle, but I felt like I was on stage. It was amazing. And so I think what I saw was just real chemistry in the cast and energy and, like, they were actually having fun doing it.
- [23:16]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. And they created. They created a world. And, you know, you had said to me at intermission, some of the singing could be a little bit stronger, and some of the. And not everyone in the cast was truly a dancer. And that's true. And I think that. And we were talking about this on the way home, but we're saying it on mic now. The. You know, on Broadway, we definitely have stronger singers and dancers, but not everyone is willing to be messy and create a character and create an ensemble and create a world. You see a lot of polish on Broadway. That is to the detriment of a lot of shows. And part of the reason why I don't think this Oliver will come to Broadway is a finances. There's no way they could do this production in a theater of the same size on Broadway without charging Othello prices, because it's. It's. It's not. Listen, it's not the biggest cast in the world, but it's a sizable cast for what this show is. A lot of very smart double casting in it, and I need to check how big the orchestra is. I don't think it's like 30 pieces, but it's more than, like, nine. And the Gielgud is a smaller theater. It's a little under a thousand seats with three levels. And we were the front row of the dress circle, which is, by all accounts, the mezzanine. But that's like the closest, I think you can sit in the front row of a mezzanine in any theater we've ever been in. Like, where we were sitting was basically like seventh row orchestra, but, you know, at the mezzanine. So we were still. We had an intimate view of everything.
- [24:39]
Ariana Grande
We had no obstruction in front of us. No heads, no nothing.
- [24:42]
Cynthia Erivo
No nothing. But on top of all that, I don't know how many performers we have on Broadway who would be able to create the same organic feeling of that world. Oliver really is a very British show, and it's not just because of the sensibilities of the music and the comedy, but just there's something about selling it that is not intrinsic to American performers. And it's something that British performers just sort of get, which is ironic because there's so many American musicals that I think should be bulletproof. And then I see them done in the West End, I'm like, oh, you guys don't get this. Like, when Boo Boo and I saw pajama game, like, 10 years ago, it was funny. Like, there were members of the company who totally got it and understood how to make it work. And then other members were like, oh, you really don't understand golden age musical comedy. But, yeah, I mean, why do we mention the audience as we transition into Oliver, though? Because the audience for this one was.
- [25:43]
Ariana Grande
Oh, they were jest. I mean, they were. They were playing along. They were clapping. We were clapping along with the music during the show. It was really. Yeah, you felt like you were part of it and you were. You know, it wasn't really a joke, but you're in on the. On the. On the theme, on the everything.
- [25:59]
Cynthia Erivo
Do you remember what I said to you, sort of what Oliver is to London in regards, like, compared to what show for Broadway?
- [26:05]
Ariana Grande
Oklahoma.
- [26:06]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. I said, like, Oliver sort of London's Oklahoma, because they had. I mean, they had the boyfriend before this and, you know, Gilbert and Sullivan and whatnot. But by the time Oliver opened in the West End, London had gotten a slew of Rodgers and Hammerstein and My Fair lady and west side Story, and really, that kind of blew open the doors of what London audiences thought musicals could be. And they hadn't really had a British musical compete with any of those. And Oliver comes out in, like, 1960 or 1961 and totally does that. And this huge phenomenon runs for, like, six years over there and comes to America, does very well, not as well as over there, but does very well over here and has been revived in London many times. Like, just. It's just part of the culture. Everyone knows all the songs. They. Everyone's probably done it in primary school. And so we're sitting in the audience and people are just jazzed to see a show that they know super well and they love it. And we get to Act 2 and we do Oompapa and we do My Name. And there's the whole scene where Bill's like, nancy's gonna go help us kidnap Oliver and pushes her to the ground and there's this whole kerfuffle and he walks off stage and there's sort of silence as, like, slow music starts to play. The woman behind us turns to her seatmate and goes, she's gonna sing as long as he needs me now. And then my mom and I just sort of like Chuck with ourselves. And there's a beat, and then she turns to her other seatmate and goes, she's gonna sing as long as now. She did it not once, but she did it twice. It only would have been funnier if she leaned over to us and said, she's going to sing as long as he needs me now.
- [27:37]
Ariana Grande
I didn't totally crane my neck.
- [27:40]
Cynthia Erivo
I. I did a little bit. I turned around, I was like, who's this?
- [27:44]
Ariana Grande
Yeah. Yeah. I want to add something else that I thought really interesting, and it speaks to the appeal of Oliver here.
- [27:50]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes.
- [27:51]
Ariana Grande
Before everything started, I was looking around the audience, and I only saw one child. It's not a children's show here.
- [28:00]
Cynthia Erivo
I mean, it probably is a little bit. We. Listen, we went on a Thursday night in May. I don't. I don't know what the children are like. Maybe when we see Totoro on. On Sunday, there'll be a lot of kids.
- [28:10]
Ariana Grande
Maybe. But, I mean, it was a full theater.
- [28:12]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. It was full adults.
- [28:14]
Ariana Grande
Yeah. Maybe it's nostalgic for a lot of them.
- [28:17]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
- [28:18]
Ariana Grande
And there were some young people.
- [28:19]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah, I would imagine. I don't know. Maybe the kids these days are so. Are much more into Matilda and Heathers and the like. Maybe they're not as up on Oliver, but. Yeah, Oliver's huge for all of the adults. They all grew up with it and know it super well. It's against. It's. It's a staple here in a way that it's never really been in America. It's. It's liked in America, but it's not loved beyond the movie version and a mention on Mad Men.
- [28:43]
Ariana Grande
Well, you know, I guess the history of theater here is so much longer. And I just think about when Shakespeare used to. And everybody's standing up and polyrachis and drinking and everything else. So that's the culture of viewing a show.
- [28:55]
Cynthia Erivo
But, I mean, it's also respectful. People are cheering, but they aren't cheering at inappropriate times. Or at least I should say we've been very fortunate that the two shows that we've seen comedy about Spies and Oliver, not a single cell phone went off. People, you know, were eating and drinking in the theater, but it wasn't super obnoxious in the way that I've heard it at Broadway theaters. There was one person in our row during Act 2 of Oliver who was eating something. You could hear the Crinkling. But it only lasted about a minute. I think they realized how much noise it was making and they stopped. But that was.
- [29:24]
Ariana Grande
Did you notice no coughing?
- [29:25]
Cynthia Erivo
There was some coughing maybe, but not. Not as there was a. No, there was a woman who let out a major cough. Or maybe it was a sneeze at a weird moment. It was that again she made. Yeah, she went.
- [29:36]
Ariana Grande
It was a long, drawn out sneeze.
- [29:38]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes. Because it got some laughter from our. From our section. Because it was just so. It sounded like an older British lady sneezed. It was like it was very.
- [29:49]
Ariana Grande
Or a cartoon.
- [29:50]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah, exactly, exactly. But yeah, like it was both very engaged audiences. People were really loving both shows. They're both very feel good and very well done. I mean, comedy about spies was super packed. We were. I think we were in the third tier of a four tier theater because it's the Noel Coward, which I'm pretty. There was a tier above us and I thought we were the dress circle, we were the grand circle. So I guess that was third tier of a fourth year theater.
- [30:18]
Ariana Grande
Well, just to put a plug in.
- [30:20]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
- [30:21]
Ariana Grande
We were there the evening of the great reviews that came out that morning.
- [30:26]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes.
- [30:27]
Ariana Grande
So it was packed and the reviews were rave. So it was very exciting.
- [30:30]
Cynthia Erivo
And we were told by Matty that they already had a pretty healthy advance because mischief comedy is very popular there. They're like a. They're a built in brand. But when the reviews came out, he said like the advance doubled that day, which is crazy. It's so rare to hear that anymore. Especially because in New York there's not as much advanced ticket buying now. People will buy tickets to shows a lot closer to the actual day. And I'm sure that's true here as well. But this seems like a show that people are just pumped to see. And so they're buying in advance for this one, which is fun.
- [30:59]
Ariana Grande
They're more experienced theater goers because in New York now everything gets a standing ovation regardless of, you know. And here it's a lot more intermittent. Not everybody is. Even though the audience is totally thrilled and into it. And it's not the custom here.
- [31:16]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah, the thing. So comedy about spies. I noticed that the stalls, the orchestra, they all stood. I would probably say the dress circle probably stood. We were in the grand circle again, the third tier. Our section didn't stand. They were cheering, but they didn't stand. And then Oliver, everyone was cheering. And it really wasn't until the end of the bows that everyone stood. People were, you know, stomping and applauding throughout. You know, when the show ended and when all the bells were rumbling. It was a long curtain call. It was a long curtain call. But, you know, if this were Broadway, everyone would have jumped to their feet immediately. And this was. They waited. Even when Fagin came out, they waited until the whole company bowed. And then they did a reprise of Consider Yourself. And then anyone else who had not stood stood. So it was a pro. It took a minute, but everyone eventually did. But it wasn't out of oh, I guess I'll stand. It was earned, you know.
- [32:03]
Ariana Grande
You get the feeling it was really earned.
- [32:04]
Cynthia Erivo
Absolutely. It was. So far we are two for two.
- [32:08]
Ariana Grande
We are, yes.
- [32:09]
Cynthia Erivo
And it's very exciting. So I'm looking forward to the next couple of days and we will talk about those once we experience them. But in the meantime, Mama, let us take a quick break.
- [32:18]
Ariana Grande
Billy, I beg to differ with you.
- [32:19]
Cynthia Erivo
How do you mean? You're the top. Yeah, you're an arrow collar. You're the top. You're a Coolidge dollar. You're the nimble tread of the feet of Fred Astaire.
- [32:35]
Ariana Grande
This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. From streaming to shopping, prime helps you get more out of your passions. So whether you're a fan of true crime or prefer a nail biting novel from time to time, with services like Prime Video, Amazon Music, and fast free delivery, prime makes it easy to get more out of whatever you're into or getting into. Visit Amazon.comprime to learn more. The new McCrispy Strip is here. Dip approved by Ketchup, Tangy barbecue, Honey mustard. Honey mustard, Sprite, McFlurry, Big Mac sauce, Double dipped in buffalo and ranch. More ranch and creamy chili. McCrispy Strip Dip now at McDonald's.
- [33:19]
Cynthia Erivo
And we're back. So fun fact, we said that we were going to come back and record two days after that last section and guess what? We are back in New York City. So we spent the whole week doing the trip and not recording. So we have to do this as best we can.
- [33:40]
Ariana Grande
Yeah, big catch up. But that speaks well of the trip that we were so busy and so tired.
- [33:45]
Cynthia Erivo
We were, we were indeed very busy and very tired. But so what we'll do is we'll do this section and then I'll probably maybe go a little more in depth on the shows myself after this section, after the next commercial break. So last we were on the podmother, it was Thursday evening and we had seen Oliver and we had seen Commie about spies. My sister Laura Koplik had Shown up that morning and we saw her for dinner and did the Orwell archives. What happened Friday? What do we do Friday?
- [34:15]
Ariana Grande
Friday we went to Oxford. We took the train from Paddington Station to Oxford. We walked around. We took a tour of the Humphrey Library, which is part of the Bodleian Library arrangement there. We had lunch and we.
- [34:31]
Cynthia Erivo
Sourdough pizza. Thank you.
- [34:32]
Ariana Grande
Yes. Right. And then we. I had enlisted us for tour, a walking tour of Oxford that centered on the British series Inspector Morse, Inspector Lewis and Endeavor. And I was very excited. Laura had seen it. Matt hasn't seen those, but so fascinating. And I thought it would be a great way to walk around Oxford and like basically a pub crawl from every pub that, that Morse went into. And instead it turned it out, it turned out to be a big disappointment. Was basically a trivia conversation. It was a standing still walk.
- [35:09]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah, Laura and I were talking in the beginning because for like the first 15 minutes of the supposed tour we had, we had done no walking. It was just standing in this one intersection in Oxford. And the tour guide, who was very enthusiastic about the series and knew everything about the series was just sort of talking about different points around us that related to the show because they filmed, I guess, Inspector Morse in Oxford. And I think we all assumed that it was going to be a walking tour of Oxford through the prism of.
- [35:40]
Ariana Grande
Correct.
- [35:40]
Cynthia Erivo
Of that show. And that's not really what it was. And Laura and I had a couple of side talks, but we. This was, you know, a celebration trip in many ways. But the number one thing, the headline thing was celebrating your birthday. And also Laura and I had spent more time in London in this century than you had. So we were like, you know, obviously we'll all talk and we'll figure out things that we want to do. But like, if mom wants to do something, that takes precedent, precedence, precedent. And so we were saying, like, this isn't really going great. We're like, if mom is really enjoying it, like, we'll stick it out. And 40 minutes in of this two hour tour, you come up to us and you're like, this is kind of a dud. Should we maybe go? Laura and I just together, like, oh my God, thank you so much. Yes, it's. Let's go, let's go, let's go.
- [36:32]
Ariana Grande
It's like, you know, honestly. And I know I can, I can curse a little bit on here. I don't give a shit about Morse's license plate number, which is the kind of trivial information that was being passed at this standing still walking tour.
- [36:50]
Cynthia Erivo
It was also, you know, we're standing in one spot point, and he's put pointing at something 10 blocks away and going, so 10 blocks away from here is where this supporting character resided for the show. And, like, oh, and five blocks over there is where they shot the exterior for a cafe scene. And, by the way, takes out a photo from the show, a still photo. He's like, anyone, can anyone tell me who it is in this photo? What cameo is this? And everyone's like, no idea. And he goes, nobody. Oh, it's. It's the assistant director's niece. It wasn't that bad, but, like, it was always. It was always stuff like that. And so Laura and I were like, oh, God. So luckily we played hooky and we ditched it less than halfway through, and we just sort of walked around Oxford and got, honestly, better sights that way. And then we headed home.
- [37:40]
Ariana Grande
You didn't clock the very amusing thing that I saw across the way. So you guys were standing up against the gate while Magnus was his name, perfect, was blathering on in while we're standing in the sun. But across from us, behind Magnus, this was Oxford's graduation weekend. And so they had a lot of tents up with different things and different activities. And there was, like a shooting gallery, not drugs, but guns, being manned by Hasidim. And I just thought that was such a. An uncommon, almost like, sight gag, you know. Here you are in Oxford, where the books are from 1400s, and you've got the Hasidum there doing a shooting game.
- [38:24]
Cynthia Erivo
Hey, hey. It's a place where cultures meet, you know?
- [38:27]
Ariana Grande
I guess.
- [38:27]
Cynthia Erivo
So it was. Wasn't it like Jewish appreciation festival or market?
- [38:34]
Ariana Grande
Oh, yeah, that's probably right. In that section.
- [38:36]
Cynthia Erivo
It was. Yeah. In that section. Overall, we enjoyed Oxford. I really liked my sourdough bread. And we came back and we did dinner at that Indian restaurant.
- [38:47]
Ariana Grande
It was fabulous. At Indian restaurant?
- [38:49]
Cynthia Erivo
Ambassadors Clubhouse.
- [38:50]
Ariana Grande
Ambassador Clubhouse, yeah.
- [38:52]
Cynthia Erivo
And that was off of Oxford Street. No, that was off of Regent Street.
- [38:55]
Ariana Grande
Yeah. Laura found it. It was modern Indian.
- [38:57]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. And I'm not. I'm not an Indian food fan, but I. I enjoyed my time there. I thought a lot of the food was quite good. I ate it. And I really like the rice thing. We had that had the pastry crust on top. That was good.
- [39:10]
Ariana Grande
That was the biryani.
- [39:12]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes. And then I left y' all to meet Tom, one of the listeners of the pod. Tom, that was really nice. Saturday. Saturday morning or noon, I should say at noon, we went to the Churchill War Rooms. Yes. Which you had never been.
- [39:25]
Ariana Grande
I had never been. And it's two hours of history, of fabulous depth. And going through them is. Is like living in a historic moment. You're literally going through the subterranean war rooms. Churchill and the BBC and all of his cabinet folks. It was really kind of amazing.
- [39:47]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. No, and I thought it was the right blend of information and putting you sort of in the thick of it. Laura and I had done it when we went to London together in 2008. 8. And I remember going and kind of rolling my eyes at the idea of going, but ended up really loving it. So it's been 16 years since I went. So I. I was super happy to go with you again. I know Laura was. We all had a really good time. That was. That was definitely a success.
- [40:14]
Ariana Grande
What would you say the number of people going through at any given time was? Like 50, maybe.
- [40:19]
Cynthia Erivo
Like any given room.
- [40:20]
Ariana Grande
No, when we were there, the people filtering through, I'm just.
- [40:24]
Cynthia Erivo
Oh, way more than 50.
- [40:26]
Ariana Grande
Well, just I thought maybe at one time that was allowed in, you know.
- [40:29]
Cynthia Erivo
No, I mean, I don't know exactly how they filter it all, but more than that. Well, because it's. The actual subterranean is quite large. It's just, it's just narrow.
- [40:39]
Ariana Grande
Point I want to make is that with all of the people that were there, Matt and I both clocked these very troubling people who interfered with our enjoyment of the war.
- [40:52]
Cynthia Erivo
Well, there's. There's two talking about father and son. Or are we talking about the old two group? Both. Okay.
- [40:58]
Ariana Grande
That foursome and then the father and son guys.
- [41:00]
Cynthia Erivo
You know that I try to be respectful, I try to be open minded, but I gotta say, this trip did test my patience with some people from time to time. And I may or may not have said things under my breath for only my mother and my sister to hear names that I might have called some people. But in fairness to me, if you ever go to the Churchill war rooms, it is literally the war rooms now that it's sort of set up as a museum. And thus it's very narrow passageways, single file, basically. And it's. And there's only one way in which you can do it. You're walking your way through it in a specific manner. And they give you these headsets with pre recorded information audio. And they tell you like, you know, this is the room you're in now. And they'll put a sign up to show you what number to press and you press that and then you go through each one. And the actual audio clips are short they're intentionally meant to be like, you know, 45 seconds each, so you can keep going through. And Laura got a little bit ahead of us, so I wanted to hold up for you to make sure that everything. Because once you figured out exactly the order of the audio, it was good. But that first round was a little tricky for you. Didn't want to lose you. Didn't want to lose you. But also wanted to make sure that you were getting the right audio for the right room. So we were going from the first. Going from the first room to the second room. And this group, these two couples who could have been anywhere between 50 and 90 because just how they took care of themselves, how they dressed, who's to say? But what I will say is that they. We go from one room to the next, and they stand in the middle of the doorway to look through their audio to make sure that they're on the right thing. Meanwhile, there's like, a giant part of the room that you walk into that you could stand to the side to figure that out. Then. No, no. They decide to stand in front of the doorway, in front of you, in front of, like, 10 other people, and without a care in the world, they spend three minutes looking at their machines and telling each other what to do. And eventually. Eventually I was like, excuse you. And so they. They didn't even realize what it was I was asking. They just kept walking in and then, like, stood right in the middle of the room. So eventually, because you're small, you got through. But I was very angry, and they made things tricky the rest of the turn, as did that man and his son.
- [43:19]
Ariana Grande
Ginormous. And they stood right. Like, they blocked everybody's viewers. Laura said, as a baby, they're blocking my scene.
- [43:26]
Cynthia Erivo
Well, so the. The father and his son, they weren't like, standing in the middle of doors so much as that. Every.
- [43:31]
Ariana Grande
Windows.
- [43:32]
Cynthia Erivo
No, every. Every item that you were to look at, they would spend twice as long looking through it as anyone else, which I understand you want to sort of absorb it all, but there are dozens and dozens of people behind you in these very narrow passageways. You gotta it going. But it was overall very much a success. And we walked through the St. James Park. We went to the cafe.
- [43:51]
Ariana Grande
Nice cafe.
- [43:51]
Cynthia Erivo
Yep. We had dinner at the Ivy. And then Saturday night, what show did we see?
- [43:56]
Ariana Grande
We saw Benjamin Buttons.
- [43:58]
Cynthia Erivo
Just Benjamin Button. One Button. Singular button. Curious Case of Benjamin Button. I'll talk more about all the shows you saw on this trip in part three of this episode, but initial thoughts on Curious Case of Benjamin Button. Mom, do you know anything going in? What were your thoughts during the show?
- [44:12]
Ariana Grande
Well, I saw the movie, and I was, like, a little bit skeptical when Matt mentioned this was one that he wanted to see. But I have to say that I was extremely moved by it. And for someone who has just turned a certain age, there was a lot that was poignant to me about this man when he was old. Now I understand he was. He was aging backwards, but it was still. It makes you. It makes you think. It makes a girl think.
- [44:38]
Cynthia Erivo
Well, yeah. I think the major theme of the show is time and what you do with your time and age being, like, just a number, essentially, and what people want from life and what they sort of wait for, what they make happen. Yeah. I'll talk about a little bit more in my section. But I also really enjoyed it. I was nervous because I had a few friends who had seen it and really didn't care for it.
- [44:59]
Ariana Grande
Really?
- [45:00]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. Danny really did not like it.
- [45:02]
Ariana Grande
No kidding.
- [45:03]
Cynthia Erivo
But also, that doesn't surprise me. He doesn't really do super well with emotional stuff. But my sister, she was more into. She was more into Act 1. She didn't really care for Act 2. But I was a little nervous because I was thinking, oh, God, is this gonna be Operation Mincemeat 2.0? Because this had just won the Olivier for Best Musical. It's a small show. I was like, I really don't want to have this be our mulligan. Especially because comedy about spies was so delightful and Oliver was so wonderful. And the opening number did kind of put me on pause. I'll talk more about that in Part three. But after the opening number, I was more on board. And then as the show continued, I just got more and more invested in it. And then when it was over, I really, really enjoyed it, and I had a little tear.
- [45:48]
Ariana Grande
I thought the music was fabulous.
- [45:50]
Cynthia Erivo
Music was beautiful.
- [45:51]
Ariana Grande
Loved it. Everybody was so talented. They play multiple instruments, and while they're singing and dancing and doing whatever they're doing.
- [45:58]
Cynthia Erivo
It's true.
- [45:58]
Ariana Grande
And furthering the story. And I had a major meltdown toward the end. I think I shocked Laura, but she was great. I mean, I was literally bent over weeping at one point.
- [46:09]
Cynthia Erivo
Was it when she died?
- [46:11]
Ariana Grande
Might have been, probably, yeah.
- [46:14]
Cynthia Erivo
When she. When she sang About Time and then was in her bed. Yeah. I should also mention we had an understudy for the titular role of Benjamin Button. Benedict Salter played the role. He normally plays Benjamin's father in the show, and the actor played the father Was fine. But I gotta give props to Benedict Salter. I was a little disappointed we got an understudy because the actor who plays it normally won the Olivier for it. And I was eager to see his performance. John Dagglaish, or however you say his name. But Benedict Salter was. I thought he was wonderful and I kind of sort of fell in love with him. He was very, very pretty. And the theater, it's a very small theater. Yet again, we were in a very intimate space. This was, I think, like less than 500 seats.
- [46:52]
Ariana Grande
And it really works in the small space. As did Oliver, which is normally a large production. I imagine that was a smallish theater.
- [46:59]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. This production of Oliver is sort of like a medium sized large show done in a. In a smaller space. I mean, I would. I would say that this, the theater that Oliver is in the Gielgud for Broadway folk. The best size comparison I could give it would be maybe the Friedman Theater, which is where Old Friends is at right now, the Manhattan Theater Club Theater, but slightly larger stage, maybe, but. And it's also three tiers of seats, so it actually, it feels more intimate because we were closer to the stage for both Benjamin Button and for Oliver than I think I've ever been in the mezzanine for any Broadway show.
- [47:39]
Ariana Grande
Well, props to Matthew Koplik because he is the best seat picker outer of anybody. We had unobstructed fabulous views from the mez, which was really. I always prefer it to the orchestra anyhow.
- [47:52]
Cynthia Erivo
Or dress circle. Dress circle. We were. Yes, we did not sit in the stalls for any of these shows. I think. I think we only did the stalls last year for Standing at Sky's Edge because we were in a dress circle for Mincemeat. And I don't. What was the third show we saw last time? Oh, four shows. Four shows. We were also upstairs for Guys and Dolls. That was the other one. And then the fourth one. O Hills of California. Yeah, we only did stalls once last time. No stalls this time. So then that's Saturday. Sunday we do Breakfast with Laura at Catavan in Fitzrovia, which is where our flat was. And then you and I go to the 2 o' clock matinee of my neighbor Totoro. Yes. Same theater that we saw standing at Sky's edging. The Gillian Lin Theater. And you knew nothing about this?
- [48:43]
Ariana Grande
I didn't. Except that I know you like, as we call them in my. In my household, cantoons, cartoons. I thought it was just gonna be. I don't know what but it was phenomenally delightful.
- [48:53]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. So it's. Well, you have seen two Miyazaki movies. You've seen Ponyo. Yes. And you see. Or maybe you just seen Ponyo. I don't know if I showed you Kiki's delivery service.
- [49:02]
Ariana Grande
I don't think so. But, you know, seeing it live was actually more engaging than seeing the movie because you saw that tiny little actress who played Mei just was a 4 year old on stage.
- [49:15]
Cynthia Erivo
I know.
- [49:16]
Ariana Grande
Amazing.
- [49:16]
Cynthia Erivo
Well, you can't say how it compares to movie because you haven't seen the movie.
- [49:19]
Ariana Grande
My dear woman, I've seen Ponyo.
- [49:23]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes. Very, very different. I will say my neighbor Totsaro. It is a long show. The first act is pretty much the length of the movie. But. And it's very literal translation of the. Of the movie on stage. But it was. So the reason why I picked it for us was because again, I tried to pick things that were most likely not going to come to America, and if they were, we're not going to maybe translate as well. So, like Benjamin Button, it was really important that we see it in that theater because I can't imagine any theater in New York that it will sit in. Well, maybe the booth, which is where John Proctor is the villain, is right now.
- [49:57]
Ariana Grande
So there's no pit to speak of for.
- [50:00]
Cynthia Erivo
No, but you don't. You can cover a pit. It's just, it's. You really can't put a price on intimacy. Intimacy really helps a show. There are some musicals that blossom from a smaller venue to a larger venue because they need extra space. Hamilton, when I saw it off Broadway, talk about this all the time. I saw it at the Public and I was like, oh, this is moving to Broadway and it's going to be better on Broadway because they'll have more space. Kimberly Akimbo was weirdly, a show that actually worked better on Broadway than off Broadway. And then some shows go from a smaller venue to a larger venue and get totally swallowed whole. Or with that distance, you start to see all the flaws in the show that you. That you don't care about when you're swept up in the intimacy of it. Yeah. And I feel like with Benjamin Button, if it goes into a larger theater, like let's say we were to go into the Schubert, which is where Hell's Kitchen is right now. I just feel like that. That it would die in that fear. It's a 1500 seat house. But Totoro is actually a large show. And I was about to say this was the biggest show we Saw, but it's not really true. The last show was probably the biggest show we saw.
- [51:07]
Ariana Grande
Yeah, but.
- [51:08]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah, I mean, you didn't know anything about the plot. All you knew about it was that I requested it. And all I really knew about it was that it was going to be a spectacle the likes of which we don't really ever get. And it's lots of very vivid and elaborate puppetry. Beautiful, fabulous puppetry and huge stage with a turntable and a live band and like, I think a cast of 20, including all the puppeteers. And we happened to go to a Sunday matinee, which meant there were a lot of children, mostly well behaved.
- [51:39]
Ariana Grande
Mostly well behaved.
- [51:40]
Cynthia Erivo
Mostly well behaved. I think one or two kids talking during. But nothing terrible. Like you would hear little jabbers during maybe sadder parts like when. When. When May. And what's her sister's name? Suzuki, or something like that. Yeah. When Sutsuki and Mei were fighting because their mom had sort of taken a turn for the worst. That was the part where all the parents and us were like, oh, drama. But all the kids were like, they wanted more Totoro. They wanted more Cat Bus.
- [52:09]
Ariana Grande
Yeah.
- [52:09]
Cynthia Erivo
And we sat next to three young folks from Nebraska. They were from Musical theater program.
- [52:16]
Ariana Grande
Musical theater program in Nebraska?
- [52:18]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah, they were there.
- [52:19]
Ariana Grande
It was kind of fun.
- [52:20]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah, they were there on a school trip. Right.
- [52:22]
Ariana Grande
And you got a new listener.
- [52:24]
Cynthia Erivo
At least one. At least one. As far as we know. Hey, if you're listening, we remember you, hope you remember us. And we hope you really liked Totoro. Sunday night after Totoro, what did we do? Well, first of all, I went to Scribbler and I got the things I needed to get.
- [52:38]
Ariana Grande
Yes, you did.
- [52:38]
Cynthia Erivo
Mine is that one mug that said Cunt with rainbow colors all around it. But then we went to.
- [52:45]
Ariana Grande
We went to a piano bar called the Room where it happened.
- [52:50]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes.
- [52:50]
Ariana Grande
And we got there fee. Early, a little after 5:30. They had our reservation, which. Hello, Charlie. He. Charlie made the reservation for us. And when they showed us to our table, Charlie had sent over a bottle of Prosecco. Lovely Prosecco.
- [53:07]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes.
- [53:08]
Ariana Grande
And so that was great. We ordered a couple of apps, appetizers, and it hadn't really filled up in there yet. It was on the early side, even though it was a Sunday.
- [53:16]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah, well, they opened at 5 on Sunday and I think went until about 1 or 2. And we got. Yeah, we got there about 5:35,45. There were people there. It was. It wasn't Path to the Brim, but it was. It's not like we were alone. There were a solid dozen people there. Maybe, like I say, There were probably 20 other people there when we got there. And.
- [53:37]
Ariana Grande
Oh, including the other side where there was a bride.
- [53:39]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah, there was other people on the other side too. And then by the time we left, which was almost 10, I would say there were probably 40 or 50 people there. That was. Sunday is definitely one of their quieter nights, but it was. The crowd got more rambunctious by the time.
- [53:52]
Ariana Grande
Well, we had just gotten appetizers to go along with the prosecco, and I looked over to Matt and I said, I think maybe we should stay. Because the sing along was supposed to start at 9. That turned out not to be as fun, maybe because there's a whole bunch of people crowded up around the piano. But my son, Matt Koblick had a solo.
- [54:12]
Cynthia Erivo
Well, okay, so here is what the room where it happens is. It's basically London's equivalent of Marie's Crisis and clearly newer than Reese Crisis because it's named after Hamilton and at the beginning of the shift. So. And unlike Raised Crisis, you have to make. Make a reservation because there are tables and there's table service and you order drinks. You usually have to order some food. They have a. They have a full dinner menu. And we had. I had the vegan shepherd's pie or vegetarian shepherd's pie. You had.
- [54:44]
Ariana Grande
I had salmon.
- [54:45]
Cynthia Erivo
I think you did. You did have salmon.
- [54:47]
Ariana Grande
It was great. Yeah.
- [54:48]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah, it was. Both of our meals were really good. You even. Did you have a bite of my vegetarian shepherd's pie?
- [54:54]
Ariana Grande
I kind of looked at it and said maybe.
- [54:56]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah, I know it's not for you, but I feel like you had one bite. That's a test, wasn't it? I didn't think so, but my drag. So what I would say is that the beginning of rumor. It happens. What happens? What happens is. What happened was the servers sing for the first couple of hours and you can put down requests for songs and if they know it, they'll do it. And the servers are all very talented. And we had the mc, Natalie, and she was fantastic. So amazing voice. Hi, Natalie, if you're listening.
- [55:26]
Ariana Grande
Hey, Natalie.
- [55:27]
Cynthia Erivo
Natalie, at one point was singing the title song from Cabaret and it had definitely picked up in the room by that point. There were. It went from 20 to 50 by that point. And we were sitting next to a woman probably around my age and her mother who were locals and. And loved theater. They had just come to see Oliver. We were speaking with them because they went to the matinee of Oliver. And Natalie gets to the bridge of the title song and it's the. I think of Elsie to this very day. I remember how she turned to me and say. And turned to the woman next to us with her mother and pointed the mic at her, clearly wanting her to sing the part that Elsie sings, which is. It's the chorus of the title song. And this woman froze. Her eyes, just panicked. She was like, I don't know what the lyrics are. And Natalie, in a split second, I was like, if I wait two seconds too long, Natalie's gonna take the mic back and she's gonna sing. And luckily this is in my range, in the higher part of my range. So I can. I don't have to like shout it, but I can sing it and show off some. Some, you know, some range, some notes. So I did. I sang. I sang the chorus. The what good is sitting alone in your room? And would you say I got some enthusiastic responses from her?
- [56:40]
Ariana Grande
Oh, you did. You got huge, thunderous applause.
- [56:43]
Cynthia Erivo
She's talented. And then as we were wrapping up, that's when the night turned into more of a sing along. And that was a little more. I want to. I'll say basic people constantly requesting Wicked, requesting, Disney, requesting. I don't know, there was some Oliver too, but I had put in some, like, deep dive requests that I think the servers really enjoyed.
- [57:06]
Ariana Grande
Yes, well, it was the first time singing Vanilla Ice Cream.
- [57:08]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes, Vanilla Ice Cream from she Loves Me was in there. A lot of Mamma Mia. People really enjoyed the Mamma Mia. I'm not mad about that. I was. I was singing along to that shit as well. And then. So that was Sunday. Monday was our last day. We. We kind of had a late start of it, but we eventually made it to Covent Garden. Again. We'd been in Covent Garden.
- [57:29]
Ariana Grande
Can you go for coffee or something? Because I packed while you were somewhere.
- [57:32]
Cynthia Erivo
I was supposed to go for coffee with another person named Phil and just. It didn't work out. So I ended up stopping by King's Cross and looking around and seeing platform 9 and 3/4 and then heading back to the apartment. Then we went to Covent Garden where we met Charlie. Hi, Charlie. Hi, Charlie. Charlie's in Book of Mormon right now in the West End. And then we went across the way to the National.
- [57:59]
Ariana Grande
First time at the National? Man, that place is amazing.
- [58:02]
Cynthia Erivo
Your first time at the National?
- [58:03]
Ariana Grande
Yeah, yeah.
- [58:03]
Cynthia Erivo
Mine, yes. But this was my first time at the Olivier stage because the listeners were asking why I wasn't seeing. Here we are at the Littleton which is the last Sondheim show. And Jane Krakowski is in it. Jesse Tyler Ferguson, Martha Plimpton. And my ultimate answer is, I saw Here We Are when it played here in New York at the Shed with all, you know, the Broadway actors. And I'll be honest, I didn't love it here. I was glad I saw it. It was really cool to see one last Sondheim piece. And the production itself was given a beautiful design and the cast was great. But, like, I walked out, I was like, that's not top tier Sondheim and I don't need to, like, invest a lot of my life into it. And so when time is of the essence in London and there was a chance to see something we hadn't or I hadn't seen, I was like, fuck it, let's go see Dear England, which won the Olivier for best play last year at the National. And it was having a revival on the Olivier stage. Dear England, based on the true story of the English football team and their slow trajectory towards not winning the championship.
- [59:15]
Ariana Grande
Or the getting to the finals.
- [59:17]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah, doing. Doing much better than they ever had before. Very Ted Lasso coded because. Because the coach was much, you know, brought on a psychiatrist so they could talk about their feelings and, and create a less toxic environment, so they felt less pressure to fail, having more trust with each other.
- [59:35]
Ariana Grande
Well, the prelude to that is that he had been a soccer football player and he totally blew a penalty kick that lost the game when he played. And so he was very aware of the psychological underpinnings of being on a team and being an athlete.
- [59:53]
Cynthia Erivo
And there was something about how England had never won a game with a penalty goal or it was like a championship with a penalty goal, something like that. But England had a very bad track record when it came to penalty goals. And so that was a big thing with this team. And their story actually was a shootout.
- [60:12]
Ariana Grande
Was a shootout. No, was his loss. The.
- [60:15]
Cynthia Erivo
I don't remember. It was. It was five seconds of a. Almost three hour play.
- [60:18]
Ariana Grande
Right.
- [60:19]
Cynthia Erivo
But this was another one like Totsaro, where it really was sort of the scale of the piece that I was more interested in. And plus, I wanted you to see the national. And the Olivier stage is huge. My God, was it huge? And that theater was bigger than I ever expected it to be. In a lot of ways, it's like the Beaumont at Lincoln center, but it's, I would argue, far bigger.
- [60:36]
Ariana Grande
It was huge. It's huge.
- [60:38]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. And I mean, again, it's that this is probably the one we liked the least of all the shows we saw in London, but we still liked it. It was just that we loved Oliver and we loved Benjamin Button, and we really loved comedy about spies. And Totoro was just such a delight. That was more sort of an appreciation.
- [60:57]
Ariana Grande
It was. And I think that, you know, unlike Ted Lasso, and it's not. Maybe not a fair comparison, but they did. You. You had a longer time to follow the track of, you know, the arc of each individual player where.
- [61:11]
Cynthia Erivo
Here.
- [61:12]
Ariana Grande
Excuse me. It was less about the arc of the individual players and more about the team. And, you know, there was a little bit of each individual.
- [61:19]
Cynthia Erivo
But yeah, each. Each player got to have moments of their truth and their story. But the play is really covering the team as a whole. The coach, the psychiatrist, the owners of the team, plus England as a country, going through their history, because it goes. It spans from 2016 to 2024, apparently, in this reboot. Charlie told me that they updated it since it was last at the national to add stuff, because I guess when it opened the first time, the coach hadn't resigned yet. So they added that to the play this time, from what I understand. But, I mean, listen. Well, you know, this is a world that we don't know super well, and this is a story that mattered a lot to England. And it's called Year England because the coach wrote letters to the country via newspapers pleading for them to not, like, grow up, like, basically, like, show decorum and be human beings again. Especially post Covid, he was like. Because with the games happening again and they're. And their players of color sometimes, you know, having faux pas, it was showing the racist underbelly of the country as is surprise. Every country is racist in one way or another. And football is so important to England as a whole. And when the team. And because the team had gotten so far, the fact that they were losing and whatever, like, there were riots, people were looting, their cars were getting, you know, flipped over and set on fire. And the coach basically wrote a letter to the country and was like, I understand your sorrow. Allow yourself to feel the sorrow and maybe don't rage and maybe show compassion to the players who are just trying to win for you. And I'm sure it didn't make everything beautiful overnight, but apparently it did have an effect. And the audience loved it when they. I mean, when it was over, they were roaring with appreciation in a way that made me feel. I knew I was on the outside of it, but I didn't feel resentful about it. I was glad I had that experience because if that show were to come to America, first of all, I don't know what theater could house it. This is one that we're actually would have to downsize and go into a smaller theater than it's in. But the audiences here just. This is just a story that they don't know much about and don't resonate with the sport as much. And I'm sure a lot of people would just be like, oh, It's Ted Lasso 2.0, even though this predates it.
- [63:50]
Ariana Grande
Oh. So, you know, they, they related to it because they're English and it's. It's almost like a national anthem for them, their football team. So what really impressed me and you know, I guess the individual performances. Okay. The coach. Okay. The spectacle of it was unbelievably creative. There was what looked like a halo light that when you arrived, there's this big circular stage and this halo light is low. So you can't imagine, oh my God, it's something going to happen underneath it. They lift it up and it becomes. The feeling is like you're in Madison Square Garden with all the projections that happen, the scoreboard, and that is all projected within the perimeter of the. I should say the circumference of the halo.
- [64:35]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
- [64:36]
Ariana Grande
And I thought that was brilliant. And they got the crowd sounds and that was fabulous.
- [64:40]
Cynthia Erivo
To speak nothing of the three part turntable. Right. Yeah. Large cast that constantly in motion playing multitude of roles. It was, it definitely gave you the epic grandeur of being in a football stadium. And that was you. You really can't do that as well in a traditional Broadway theater. So again, I'm super glad that we saw it. We'll take a break in just a short minute. Mom and I will give my deeper thoughts on all of the things that we've seen. But for any listeners of the podcast, anything you want to say about the trip, how you feel when we came home, how you felt about the trip overall? Anything about these shows in particular, about the theaters, about the culture that really stuck with you?
- [65:23]
Ariana Grande
Well, I just, overall, I thought it was. I, I felt like doing a victory lap when we got home because everything went smoothly except for a couple of little things like a car service.
- [65:32]
Cynthia Erivo
We had some bumps.
- [65:34]
Ariana Grande
We had a couple of bumps, but. But not big ones mostly, you know, things hard to believe, but some things are just much more efficient. In London, the travel for sure is much, much better. I would say restaurants, not so much. Service isn't, you know, whatever, but it was overall, it Was a great trip. And I don't know that I would have changed anything except for the Morse tour.
- [65:57]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
- [65:57]
Ariana Grande
If I'd known more about that or could have orchestrated or if it had been just different, it could have been.
- [66:03]
Cynthia Erivo
A lot of fun, I think. Yeah. The Morse tour. I, I, I would have liked to have done a different tour. But also, I will say, I mean, no one got sick, no one had an accident or anything like that. I think we overall did well with food. There are a couple of places we did for like, lunch or midday that I was sort of iffy about, But I enjoyed all of the gastropubs that we frequented.
- [66:28]
Ariana Grande
Oh, the food. The wine bar at the national is phenomenal.
- [66:32]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
- [66:33]
Ariana Grande
Oh, my gosh, that was great.
- [66:34]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. Thank you, Tom, for that recommendation. We really loved it. Say thank you to Tom.
- [66:39]
Ariana Grande
Thank you, Tom.
- [66:40]
Cynthia Erivo
Tom works at the national and he told me to make that reservation for us.
- [66:43]
Ariana Grande
They sell a lot of that cauliflower, that deep fried cauliflower.
- [66:48]
Cynthia Erivo
Cauliflower fritti. Yeah.
- [66:50]
Ariana Grande
That was unbelievable.
- [66:51]
Cynthia Erivo
So delicious. You also ate more bread in seven days there than I've ever seen you eat in a month here all sourdough. And you went for it. My mother is not what one would call, like a super eater. You eat, but you're very dainty about it. And this was the most I've seen you tear into food in a while. For a country that's not known for amazing cuisine, you definitely tore into it. So props to your mama.
- [67:17]
Ariana Grande
At the National, I restrained myself. The bread was fabulous, and I limited myself to one of the two pieces. You had both, and I expected you to go for the third, but you didn't.
- [67:26]
Cynthia Erivo
So that was good of bread.
- [67:28]
Ariana Grande
Yeah.
- [67:28]
Cynthia Erivo
I had so much by that point anyway, and I was on my glass of that point, so the bread was soaking it up for me. Yeah. Never got sloppy myself when we were there. Laura might have, but Laura had more wine in her system, I think, when we saw her. I don't like martinis, and Laura likes martinis, and martinis go through you, no matter who you are. So.
- [67:55]
Ariana Grande
Yeah, well, then you get a chaser of a glass of or something that was.
- [67:59]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah, yeah, but, but even so, Sauvignon Blanc, I will say, if I were to do anything differently just with Laura, I think I would have inverted Benjamin Button and Oliver. So you and I would have seen Benjamin Button on Thursday and we would have seen Oliver with Laura on Saturday. Well, I just think that was. That show would have been more her speed the entire time. But I Didn't know if Oliver was gonna be good or not. I had heard good things, but, you know, you'll always hear good things, and then you go see it and you're just like, ugh. But I think that we were five for five with theater this trip.
- [68:34]
Ariana Grande
I think we were. I think we were.
- [68:37]
Cynthia Erivo
When our least favorite was still like a gentleman. 7.7.5. Dear Engkling, the Olivier winning play. Like, that's great. There were no duds.
- [68:46]
Ariana Grande
If we were English, we would have had a different response. It would have been, you know, a very rousing battle cry kind of thing. And, you know, you could sort of catch that even as an observer.
- [68:56]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. Something. It's not. It's not a testament to the quality of writing or anything like that. Some things are able to cross cultural barriers because some things are just super universal. That's why Fiddler has been able to be performed in every country because tradition and family is just universal. But football is not as universal. And this is a specific story from a specific time in England's history. So I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed the theatrical elements of it. Performances were all strong, and I'm glad we saw it. I liked it. I liked it a lot. But it was the weakest for me out of the five. But that's because we've just been crushing it and crushing it and crushing it. Yeah.
- [69:36]
Ariana Grande
And we had ice cream at Covent Garden. That was nice.
- [69:39]
Cynthia Erivo
Yes, we had ice cream. I bought some candy. It was a good time. It's a good time. Good time by all of us. And I like my Scribbler purchases. All right, so we're gonna take a quick break, and I will get into my deep dives on the rest of these shows. Mama. Anything else for the listeners?
- [69:52]
Ariana Grande
No. Go. Go to London. See those shows. They were great. And if you want information about the Indian restaurant or anything else, just give Matt a shout out because stuff was really fun.
- [70:03]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah. And when you're walking on the sidewalks, be extra cautious, because I gotta tell y' all, we said. We talked about this in our last London trip episode. I'm gonna say it again. People walk crazy there. Here, it's usually the tourists that do that. There. It's everybody. And you have to be on your toes. The streets are very narrow. The sidewalks are very narrow. And everyone is just basically their own personal Harry Potter night bus. So just be prepared.
- [70:30]
Ariana Grande
The other thing is, if you really haven't been and you want to partake in any of these cultural things, you need a reservation for everything. So we needed A reservation ahead of. Of time. For Churchill, For Orwell. But that was a special viewing. But still, I'm sure that the. There will be a way to look at the archives Orwell is so pertinent to today. Right. And then the other one. Oh, the library at Oxford.
- [70:50]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
- [70:50]
Ariana Grande
There are tours, but you need to reserve it ahead of time.
- [70:53]
Cynthia Erivo
The only thing we didn't reserve was the National Gallery. But that's the National Gallery. But that's sort of how we've been planning trips lately. Has been. We always have one or two tentpoles every day, and then we sort of improvise around that. And the things that we have planned, we make a reservation for. And it just so happens that London is like, yes, do that all the time.
- [71:13]
Ariana Grande
And just a note to people who travel together, give the other person some space every now and then.
- [71:18]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah.
- [71:19]
Ariana Grande
Right, Matt?
- [71:20]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah, it's nice to have space. Yeah.
- [71:23]
Ariana Grande
You needed it more than I did, but there you go.
- [71:25]
Cynthia Erivo
Well, you. You're more into me.
- [71:29]
Ariana Grande
You're my child.
- [71:30]
Cynthia Erivo
I know. No, we. It's more that you're. When you are traveling with somebody for a week and you take the flight together, you're staying together, you're seeing all the things together, it's nice to have a couple of hours each day of alone time. And luckily in London, my body clock was such that I was waking up a little earlier than you and I would go for jogs in the morning, and that was like an hour and a half of me time. And so that. That doesn't really count because you weren't even in commission during those hours, but you allowed me to go see Tom, and that was really nice. And you gave me the opportunity to see Phil, even though that didn't end up happening. And I came home, and then you actually met Charlie with me. And then Charlie and I.
- [72:11]
Ariana Grande
And then I went and did my thing and I got to see the Opera House.
- [72:14]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it all. It's all good. So that's it for mama. Everyone say bye to mom and we will now take a quick break.
- [72:21]
Ariana Grande
Ciao. Billy, I'd beg to differ with you.
- [72:23]
Cynthia Erivo
How do you mean? You're the top. You're an arrow collar. You're the top. You're a Coolidge dollar.
- [72:38]
Ariana Grande
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- [73:21]
Cynthia Erivo
And most of those people maintain skin.
- [73:22]
Ariana Grande
That'S still more clear at one year with monthly dosing.
- [73:25]
Cynthia Erivo
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- [73:59]
Ariana Grande
Ask your doctor about ebglis and visit ebgliss.lilly.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979.
- [74:08]
Cynthia Erivo
And we are back. So I just want to say quickly for those of you who've made it this far, thank you for bearing through the last two segments of this episode. We have a new mic. It's a blue Yeti. Yeah, blue Yeti mic that was suggested to us by a few different guests on the pod. And it's, it's relatively, you know, simple to maneuver, but we're still sort of getting our bearings of using it with two or more people in the room. And I'm using it now on my own just to kind of get more used to the fucker. And it's, it's, it's both, like, simple and yet tricky. So thank you for, for surviving this experimental phase of the podcast. As we have new technology, I'm hoping that my voice does not come off super insane. I talking actually at a pretty regular level and I'm rather far away from the mic right now. And we'll just see we'll see. I tested it earlier, but we'll see. Anyway. So this is the final segment. Segment of this episode where I talk a little bit more about the shows themselves that we saw on this trip. As you know, we saw comedy about Spies, Oliver, the Curious Case of. The Curious Case of Benjamin Button. I don't know what's going on with my mouth today. I haven't had any alcohol or anything. I'm wondering if maybe the jet lag is kicking in or something. Our fourth show was My Neighbor Totoro, and the last one was Dear England. So just sort of to break it down a little bit. The Comedy about Spies is the latest piece from Mischief Theater. They are best known in the States for the Play that Goes Wrong. And then after that, Peter Pan goes Wrong. They also have. I was talking to somebody in London. They had a show called, like the Comedy about bank robbers. I think something like that. So it seems that when they're doing something goes wrong, that is exactly what you expect it to be. It's. There's a performance that's supposed to happen and then over the course of two hours, things get progressively more and more wrong. Somebody, you know, drops a prop, a set piece breaks, and it all goes into absolute chaos from there. When they do a show that starts off with the comedy about. That tends to be more of a plot heavy show, as is the comedy about spies. And you could hear me and my mom talk about that show a little bit more in the first section of the episode. So I'll just sort of recap that. This is a very elaborate piece, a very extravagant production. It's a sizable cast. It's not just the core Mischief folks, although they are all in it, but there is also a genuine ensemble of like, I would say five to eight other actors. It's a. So it's a sizable cast. There's a treadmill on stage. There's plenty of very elaborate set pieces, a lot of art deco pieces. We mentioned the sort of Act 1 finale of the four different hotel rooms all on top of each other in one big square with bright colors. Very reminiscent of Bonnie Christie's set for Company. But the elaborate design and the elaborate staging does not take away from the humor of the piece. It actually just makes the whole thing feel more. I don't know how to describe it. This is the most like, I think, fully realized production on the end of the Mischief Company. They have always sort of been very clever and very kind of outside the norm. Kind of like ragtag, hasty puddings mentality. Right. Very Monty Python and all of that. And this feels a little bit more like. No, no, no. We are delivering within the system of commercial theater. We are going to give you a fully thought out script. Silly but fully thought out characters with trajectories and beginning, middle and end, as well as elaborate designs. And it was, to put it mildly, once again, like just a really enjoyable evening. And I know I'm biased because the director, Matt DeCarlo and I are very good friends and collaborators, but honestly, as I said in the past, like, it's just so. I'm very fortunate to know people who are good at what they do. And even if the thing they're a part of maybe isn't my cup of tea, I can usually say with confidence and honesty that their work is very strong. And I was very fortunate that with this production, both Maddie's work and the play itself were so much fucking fun. It's so silly, but it doesn't do dumb. It's not basic. It's not under baked. It's a fully realized, fully thought through, dumb show. And it's a real bomb of just joy and humor and silliness. And I highly recommend it. The opening scene definitely is a major bang with Agent Y, Agent U, Agent O. And you can watch the sort of. It's not the final version of the scene, but a close enough version of that scene on. I think you can see it on YouTube if you search up Comedy about Spies, I think it's not for the Oliviers. It might be for one of the annual charity galas that they do in London. But they do the opening scene from Comedy about Spies with all of the different agent code names. And with that, it sort of gives this big. And the one thing they don't do is they don't do the ending of the scene. They rewrote it for this gala to not spoil the actual ending for the show. But this is to say that opening scene is so zappy and snappy and zippy and whippy and all those, you know, amazing, delightful things you come to associate with high energy, chaotic, farcical British humor. And then after that, it sort of takes a minute for the show to kind of build back up again. Not that it's low energy, but because now after that first scene, the show is setting up an actual blueprint for who all the characters are, where we are and what's at stake and what needs to be done. And once all that groundwork is set up, the whole thing kind of just keeps on spinning and spiraling. And just very, very delightful fun. That's really it I can say about comedy, about spies. I don't expect it to come here to the States. It's probably just too expensive. But it. I feel like it would actually play here very well. The whole espionage and Cold War elements of it and sort of bumbling government officials is something I think a lot of people can find relief in and watch and being able to laugh at that. And I would love it if they brought it here. I don't know what theater I would put it in. Maybe like the Broadhurst. I feel like it would work comfortably in there. Yeah. Or maybe like, well, the Schoenfeld and the Jacobs are gonna be booked for a while. But yeah, I would say, like the Broadhurst would be a good spot for them. Or maybe like the Longacre or the Music Box. Like it should be in a smaller, medium sized house and they should just bring the whole company because that's how they do with mischief. All right, moving on with Oliver. As I said earlier, Oliver, this production is just absolutely delightful. As someone who is very big on the movie, but has never really cared about the stage show, having worked on it once in school and then seeing the Encore's production, I was like, yeah, I think that the show is middle and I think that the movie's a masterpiece. I still kind of think that. Because the thing about this production is great as it is, they do tweak the show. It's not the exact same script as it was originally produced in the 60s. They incorporate some elements of scenes that are in the movie that are not in the stage show that I'm pretty sure were added in the 90s when Macintosh produced the Sam Mendes revival, which this production is sort of inspired by, since Matthew Bourne is the director, co choreographer of this and Bourne choreographed the Sam Mendes production in the 90s and mid 2000s. Obviously he found a lot of inspiration from that and he wasn't really trying to reinvent the wheel so much as take what was a very elaborate production and fit it to a smaller size. It's still a pretty elaborate production for the size of theater that it's in. But this is not like a giant spectacle. You know, it's got a turntable, it's got a bridge that they sort of bring on and off, some projections, a couple of other items. It's a very craftily done production in terms of economy. And I know we talked sort of about some castings that didn't really do it for us. We. I think we had an Understudy for Artful Dodger, who just was very child actor y. And that's just a hard role to cast because you need a child actor who acts more mature than they are because that's sort of where the humor is with Dodger. And I just don't think that this performer really did that. But, you know, it's a. It's a tough role. It's a. It's a tough role to crack. And especially if you're an understudy, you're not really getting the nuance of direction from your director as the person who normally would play the role is doing. And otherwise. Yeah, I don't know what else to say about Oliver other than just. It took me by such surprise. They did a number of tweaks to the material. Not a giant overhaul, but some tweaks. Some things got moved around a little bit. One of the big songs that I wish they had cut and they didn't do it, they just moved it to later was I shall scream. Mr. Bumble. They went straight from the title song, Oliva, Oliva, right into Boy for Sale. I was like, oh, my God. They cut I Shall Scream. Fucking fantastic. I'm loving this. And then, lo and behold, much later into Act 1, they did do I Shall Scream. They moved it. And then the same thing for my name. When Bill Sykes first entered the stage in Act 1, which, by the way, in the normal script, Bill Sikes does not show up until act two to sing my name. He is absent for all of Act 1, but in the updated scripts, he now shows up in Halfway Through Act One after pick a pocket to deliver jewelry and items to Fagin that he has stolen. This is in the movie where they added it. They also added a little scene between Bill Sykes and Nancy that's also in the movie the. You love me? Of course I love you. I live with you, don't you? That kind of thing. But in his first entrance, they added a little bit of my name, and I was like, oh, they've moved my name to this moment. And they shortened it. Okay, I hate this song, but if we're gonna have it, this is the best way to do it. But then, though, they still had him do it at the top of Act 2, and the actor sold it as best he could, but I just don't like that song. But it was. The show was just musical theater joy. And the. Pardon me if I already said this in the first part of the episode. That was almost a week ago, so I can't really remember, but Something that I want to talk about with all of these shows that was really fascinating to me was the true ensemble building of all of them. These were shows where the company really built a world together. And not only that, but whatever they may have lacked in singing, agility or clean dancing or acrobatic dancing or perhaps maybe super nuanced performances on child performers, everyone was creating full characters and making dynamic choices that benefited each other person on stage. It felt very much like the acrobatic trapeze effect that Joanna Gleason always talked about in her into the Woods Tony acceptance speech, where she talked about the original company of woods, that they were trapeze artists and everybody was just catching each other on stage all the time. And with all of these shows, I really felt that. And it kind of bums me out that I haven't felt that way on Broadway much this season, especially in musicals. There have been a couple of plays that have done that for me. English John Proctor is the villain Hills of California. I would even say oh, Mary Cult of Love. But I feel like the only musical I have that sense of this season was maybe Happy Ending. And that's kind of a small show. I mean, mincemeat, sure. All the ways I don't care for that musical. I will say that cast is absolutely melded together. There are performances in the company I don't enjoy, but they are. They are there for each other. But this. This theater trip, I was watching Oliver and Benjamin Button and comedy about spies and Totoro and Dear England, and it was so dynamic to see these ensembles at work. It felt really egoless and maybe not crisp and clean, but fully lived in and creative. And that made it more alive than almost any other shows I've seen this season. Musicals especially, you know, we have. I would say it's, you know, a stereotype, but still a somewhat true one. We do have better singers here. We do have better dancers here. We even had some really great actors to rival the actors, you know, in the uk. But they do have this sort of specialness in their performances in musicals over there that maybe it's in the training or the fostering of talent there. But I talk about this sometimes where, like with our BFA programs, they train their students to be machines and talented and professional, but there's always a little bit of something special lost when performers leave the programs that they enter in. Sometimes somebody comes out of a training program and still has their individuality intact. And that is someone who I feel is like Helen J. Shen, who went to Michigan, but remains very special. And there are plenty of people who are so lovely and professional and talented who've come out of Michigan and CCM and Carnegie Mellon and, you know, Emerson and boco and all those places, but not a lot of really special messiness. And I wish we would foster that a bit more because with all of these shows, while again, the singing maybe is not as dynamic as it is here or as clean here, there is something very special in these performances that I wish we would capture for Broadway. Moving on to Curious case of Benjamin Button. What I was talking about earlier with my mom when I said that, you know, the show began and I was kind of nervous. Of all of these productions, Curious Case of Benjamin Button is very much the most theater kid energy, if you will. Very sort of waiting for Guffman. It's an ensemble cast put basically performing the story of Benjamin Button. It's like part Zorba, part come from away, part once. That's sort of the three shows I would meld together for this on a set that looks like a more realistic swept away. And the opening number, it's this like eight or nine minute number. And it gave me a lot of welcome to the rock vibes because it. The entire cast is narrating while they're also playing out all the parts that they're narrating about. It's the leading up to Benjamin Button's birth and his father on the day that he's being born, and all the people in the town and what's going on on that day. And it's very cheery, it's very sweet, it's very showman like. And the two things that kind of made me worried were, one, the sound design. Because even though the Ambassadors theatre in London, I believe, has fewer than 500 seats, it's small and it's. And it's tight. But even with the ensemble playing their own instruments, the music was so loud and the lyrics so dense that I couldn't make out a lot of the lyrics in that opening number. I would be like, oh, something about a goat and a car and a baker and something about tea and beer and all these things. And I was like, oh, God, is this. Is it gonna be like this the entire time? Like, high energy. Show, show. Show. We're. We're storytellers here. And here's the. The pub that's made out of a crate and a net. And now this person's playing a goat and isn't that funny? And all these things. I was like, oh, God, is It gonna be this kind of schmaltzy earnestness with lyrics I can't hear because the music is too loud. But eventually your ear does adjust. And they had other songs after the opening that were quieter and smoother and able to allow your ear to adjust to the volumes after that. But also, Benjamin Button as a musical is so earnest in a way that can be very grating for some people. But if you allow yourself to go on board with what the show is doing, it is actually quite moving. That is why my mom was basically a wreck in Act 2 and my sister wanted to get the fuck out of there by the time the show ended. But there was a question of. Because the show is planning to move to Broadway, I know this to be true. And the question of, is it too British? Is it too. Whatever it is, a little too British. There are. They adapt the story to take place in England, which I don't think Benjamin Button ever has. I know the movie takes place in America. Pretty sure the book takes place in America as well. But that's to say there are some references and some slangs that are obviously quite British and that can be easily fixed. I think that if they were to bring it to Broadway, they need to do a workshop or some kind of tryout to test aspects of it for audiences. Because. And while I really like the. And appreciate the sort of semi messiness of parts of it, some things do need to be a little tighter in this show, particularly in Acts 2, where there are a few different false endings and audiences will be a little less receptive to it if they kind of keep it as is. So just I feel like the creatives could go through it with a fine tooth comb and beef up some of the staging, shave off a couple of minutes on both acts and question, you know, when is the show in danger of getting to schmaltzy? Because it probably did get too schmaltzy when we saw it, but. And the fact that we were okay with it, I think, is a testament to how good the good stuff is, particularly the music, which is very, very beautiful. But there's also an intimacy to Benjamin Button in London that I don't think is going to be able to achieve on Broadway. There just simply isn't a house small enough that can also accommodate the show financially. They'll have to be in a theater like the Longacre or a theater like, I don't know, the Walter Kerr. The Walter Kerr actually might be there, a solid theater for it. But when you get. When you're further away from a show physically, it's easier to critique it and not get on board with its intentions. So I'm intrigued to see what happens with it. I don't think this is a show where they necessarily need to bring the whole cast over. I would love it if they did, and I don't. I can't. I personally can't think of actors right now who could do it, especially because everybody plays all of the instruments. I actually wouldn't be mad if we got Jessie Mueller back into the fold for this and had her play the female love interest. It's. What is the name? It's like Wellin or something like that. It's again, very, very English. But what is her name? Let me find it, Let me find it. Let me find it. Let me find it. Yeah. Alohen. Alohen Keane. I feel like that would be a good role for Jessie Mueller. And she. The role only really plays the piano and a triangle, so fine tune your piano playing skills, Jessie. But, yeah, it'll be a hard show to cast because it's. Everyone plays, like, four different instruments and has to sing and act and all that good stuff. And I know that there are far more singing instrument playing actors out there now than there were 15 years ago, but it's. It's still not necessarily like an ocean of. Of options. So we'll see what happens with that. And then my neighbor Totoro. Now, I've been very vocal about my love of all things Miyazaki in Studio Ghibli, and this movie, my neighbor Totoro, is no exception. It was, I believe this is the movie that launched Studio Ghibli into landmark status in Japan and then eventually all over the world. And Totoro in particular, is their crowning image, much like Mickey Mouse is for Disney. And if you don't know the movie very well, it is the story of two girls. Mei, who's about four. Her sister Sasuke, who is. I don't know if they ever say, but maybe like eight or nine. They move out to the country from Tokyo with their. Their father because their mother is in a hospital in the countryside with what I believe is. It's not said outwardly, but the online conspiracy is that their mother has spinal tuberculosis. So it's not airborne, but she has all of the symptoms of tuberculosis. And they move out there to be closer to the hospital so her mother. Their mother can hopefully recover. And the house they're in, they find out, is haunted. But it's not scary haunted. It's like spirited haunted. And there are these creatures that live in the forest outside their house. And one is this giant, giant troll that they've named Totoro. And ultimately Totoro and his companions in the forest are there for these girls to be sort of an outlet for them of their anger, their frustration, their joy, their confusion, their sadness, their happiness, and then ultimately delivers them to where they need to be most, which is with their mother at the hospital at the end of the story. And the play is a very literal translation of the movie. The movie is about an hour and 20, I think the show is 2:40, including a 20 minute interval. And it is very literal. It is pretty much the entire script on stage, spread out a little bit. There's live music, there's a lead singer who, who sings a lot of transitional songs as they get from one scene to another. The whole thing is done on a giant turntable. Again, the sets are quite literal, but very expensive and elaborately so. The puppetry is very gorgeous. This is not a Lion King where it's like the impression of Totoro, the impression of his friends, it's like, no, no, it's literally them. But everything is tangible, everything is physical. It's not a projection show. Even the opening sequence, which they have the title of the piece on the scrim, there's no curtain but the scrim. And then they do a whole gag with the lettering because my neighbor, as written in English, is N E I G H B O R. And that's how it's spelled in the movie. But because this is England, they have a U in the title for this. So they did a whole funny gag of entering the U into the word. And halfway through the gag, my mom and I turn to each other, we go, oh, that's real. That's not a projection on the scrim. Like those are actual letters that are on, that are on there, that they are maneuvering behind the curtain. It was very, very cool. And yes, the performance is very good. The actresses who played Mei and Suzuki. Sorry, it's not Suzuki. I can never say the name correctly. Movie Satsuki. Mei and Satsuki were very phenomenal. Victoria Chen played Mei. I looked it up. She was nominated for the Olivier for this, rightfully so. This was production. This was a production produced by the Royal Shakespeare Company that premiered at the Barbican center and then moved to the Gillian Lynn for what I believe is an open ended run. And then Amy Akumura Jones played Tatsuki and she was also really fantastic. And part of it is their stature they are. They were deliberately cast for being smaller than everyone else on stage, but also just their mannerisms, their physicality, their. Their whole interpretation of their roles. It was. It was a performative version of a child, but one that was rooted in truth. And so you bought it pretty immediately. I think it took, like, all of 15 seconds for my mom and I to get on board with them as. As these children. And it was just like a very sweet, delightful show. My mom did cry again. How can. How can she not? She cries all the time. And it was very lovely to see children all throughout the theater, mostly being well behaved, but just fully engaged with the piece. And I don't know how many of them knew the movie ahead of time. It was also a lot of adults in the audience, many of whom were giant Studio Ghibli fans. So it was sort of a nice blend of the two. Because the thing about Studio Ghibli is that they definitely make movies that are for children, but they are mature in how they deal with children. They don't pander to them. They're very colorful. They've got all these wonderful, kooky characters in them, but the things that the characters go through are very real. The sisters in my neighbor Totoro are just dealing with the possibility of their mother's death. And they talk about it openly in the third act of the piece. And it's. It's hard. It's hard to watch. These kids have to talk openly about the possibility of death, mortality, of losing their mother, of not knowing what to do, of not being able to do anything. And obviously, that's when the kids in the theater were getting a little more restless because Totoro hadn't been on stage for, like, 25 minutes. But you hope that some of those kids were listening and maybe they could take it with them and grow from that. I think that that's really powerful material to give children for entertainment. And I understand people. Someone was telling me this when we were talking, when I was talking about Totoro in London. They were saying, it's similar to Bluey. And I've never watched Bluey. My best friend's kid likes to watch it, and I've babysat her a few times, and I sort of let her watch it while I call my phone. She also likes Bear in the Big Blue House. There's also another one with dogs that she likes to watch. But I've never actually sat down and absorbed Bluey. But apparently Bluey does a lot of similar things where it's colorful, it's sweet. It's characters that the kids like, while they also deal with a lot of emotional storylines, so good on them. I'm glad that that exists for children to hopefully be smarter, not just get smooth brains. Super young. And then finally, dear England, as I mentioned, this was a return engagement at the national on their Olivier stage. This won Best Play at the Olivier Awards, I believe, last year, 2024. If not 2024, then 2023. But I'm pretty sure it was 2024. And, yeah, it's based on a true story. It was not bad by any means. We did like it. I had heard from a few different London listeners who I reached out to about it, Charlie and Tom included, and they both were like, I don't care about football. It's never been my jam. But I really loved this. I thought it was so magnificent, and I think the size of it and the creativity of it is what's so impressive and possibly magnificent. But when you're on sort of the outside of something of a story and of an energy, of urgency and of palpable connection, like the rest of the audience had with it, all you can really grab onto is the design, is the staging, is performance, and not necessarily the subject matter, not necessarily the themes. And that's okay. Not everything has to blow you away. Things can still be worth it, even if they're just good, you know, and it's objectively good. This is an objectively good play. It's a great production. Rupert Gould is somebody who I never really feel does emotion well. He does, you know, story, and he's creative. He's got a million pictures in his head, and he knows how to fill a stage. But I've never gotten anything that I can connect to from him. I felt that way with King Charles iii. I felt that way with American Psycho, Tammy Faye, and I felt it with this as well. Patriots. You know, he's so smart and he's so clever and creative, but it's not. He's not a director who makes me feel anything. And part of it might have been the play. I didn't feel much about the material itself, but by having it be on such a stadium like stage, it is ultimately keeping you at a distance. You're watching what seems like a small story on a magnificent canvas, and for everything that's impressive about it, it doesn't always allow for connection. Now, granted, that is me and my mom being the anomalies here, because the rest of the Olivier theater that night lost their shit when the. When the lights went down at the end. They were engaged. They were, you know, responsive. But it wasn't like an effusive crowd during the play. It was. Once it ended, they just roared. I would say the two most enthusiastic crowds were Oliver and Dear England. I tell you, comedy about spies 2. If I were to rank audience response post show, it would probably be number one, Oliver, number two, comedy About Spies, number three, Dear England, four, Totoro, and then five, Benjamin Button. And Benjamin Button's audience was very responsive at the end. They really did enjoy it. But it's such a quiet show that it's not really one that when it ends, everyone's like, oh, my God. American audiences would do that. But maybe not so much British audiences. That's it for now. If you guys want to ask more questions specifically about any of these shows or about the London trip, you can join the Discord Channel, which I will have the link in the description box for this episode. And if that stops working, you can always reach out to me on Instagram. Natkoplick Usual spelling. We are at almost 300 members on the Discord Channel. Very, very, very exciting. If you like the podcast, make sure to give us a nice five star rating or review. We actually have two new reviews, but I'm going to hold off on reading them until the next episode because of my jet lag. I'm going to butcher my reciting of these reviews and I want them to be read as well as I possibly can do. So. You'll have to wait for next week for those reviews, but if you haven't written one yet and you're planning on doing it, please do so. We have one prediction episode for the Tonys coming up. We have hopefully a retrospective episode on Tony's and then we have our final Tony reaction episode. And then we're gonna take a nice big break for the summer before we come back with a little bit of a. Not a rebrand, not an overhaul, but just a tweak to the release schedule of Broadway Breakdown. That's it for now. I am going to close us out with. Part of me wanted to say Oliver, but I'm not gonna do that. I'm going to. You know what? Fuck it. We're gonna do. Do I want to do Shani Wallace from Oliver with her oompapa or her as long as he needs me? No, we're gonna do Benjamin Button. We're gonna do a little clip from Benjamin Button, the cast recording. Not sure which one yet, but we'll figure it out and that's it. For now. We will see you guys in a week and I hope you enjoyed this episode. Thank you for dealing with all of the audio issues. I hope they weren't too bad. We're doing our best. We're figuring, we're figuring out it's new technology, we're artistic types and we're doing it on our own. So just making the most of it. All right, that's it for now. Thank you so much, guys. Have a good weekend. Happy Memorial Day. Happy Memorial Day. Take it away, Benjamin Bushen. Oh, I'll drink till it's done oh, I'll never be free from the way she looked so poor hey there. I'm Alan Seales, host of the Theater Podcast, a weekly podcast that takes you behind the scenes with int personal conversations that include the biggest stars on Broadway, TV and film. My podcast has over 350 episodes with guests including Stephanie J. 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