BroadwayRadio Podcast Summary Episode: Class Notes: Carl Holder (Out of Order)
Release Date: July 7, 2025
Host: Lauren Klash Schneider

Introduction

In this engaging episode of BroadwayRadio, host Lauren Klash Schneider sits down with Carl Holder, the innovative writer and performer behind the avant-garde show Out of Order at the East Village Basement. The conversation delves deep into the creation, execution, and personal significance of Carl's unconventional theatrical piece.

Overview of Out of Order

Out of Order is a unique performance where Carl Holder challenges himself by drawing index cards from a bowl, each dictating a different task or scenario he must perform. This method introduces an element of unpredictability and showcases Carl's adaptability and willingness to embrace vulnerability on stage.

Quote:
“The show is performed in a different order every single night... I have to be ready for anything and then take whatever ride comes my way that night.”
— Carl Holder [01:44]

Development and Creation Process

Carl shares the genesis of Out of Order, which began during a residency in December 2023. Initially, the concept was vague, centered around the randomness of index cards determining the show's flow. Over two years, Carl refined the piece, touring across nine states in an indie style, performing in intimate settings like living rooms. This grassroots approach emphasized personal connection and flexibility, leading to a two-week run in a theater lobby before settling in New York.

Quote:
“The show represents like the most work I've ever put into anything. But it also is something that I feel like I have the least control over in kind of an exciting way.”
— Carl Holder [01:44]

Collaboration with Skylar Fox and Night Drive

A pivotal moment in the show's evolution was partnering with Skylar Fox and his company, Night Drive. Carl highlights the importance of this collaboration, praising Skylar's ability to enhance the show's essence without overshadowing it. Skylar's expertise in writing, directing, and stage illusion brought a new depth to Out of Order, allowing it to resonate more profoundly with New York audiences.

Quote:
“Working with him is more getting at the heart of what it wants to be and then helping it become that.”
— Carl Holder [06:10]

Venue Selection: East Village Basement

Choosing the right venue was crucial for maintaining the show's intimate and experimental nature. The East Village Basement emerged as the ideal location, offering a cozy atmosphere that fosters close interaction between Carl and the audience. The venue's rich history with avant-garde theater, including ties to the legendary La Mama, adds a layer of legacy and authenticity to the performance.

Quote:
“It's very clear that that was like the perfect home... It's the right room for the show that we want to bring.”
— Carl Holder [10:45]

Themes and Content of the Show

Out of Order is deeply personal and confessional, with each index card reflecting significant events and internal conflicts from Carl's life. Themes of aging, artistic struggle, and self-imposed challenges are prevalent. The randomness of the card draws symbolizes life's unpredictability, pushing Carl to confront uncomfortable truths and embrace moments of humiliation with dark humor.

Quote:
“If I can't complete the show for any reason, then I am retiring from theater forever.”
— Carl Holder [10:02]

Challenges and Rewards of Performing the Piece

Carl candidly discusses the emotional and psychological toll of Out of Order. Being both the creator and the performer adds layers of complexity, as he navigates the fine line between self-exposure and artistic expression. Despite the inherent difficulties, Carl finds immense liberation and joy in the unpredictability and the intimate connection with his audience.

Quote:
“It's some of the most liberating fun I've ever had.”
— Carl Holder [01:53]

Future Possibilities

When asked about the potential for other actors to take on Out of Order, Carl expresses skepticism but remains open to the idea. He acknowledges that while the show is deeply rooted in his personal experiences, a different performer could bring a new dimension to the piece, potentially transforming its essence.

Quote:
“It could take on sort of like what the Constitution means to me... it would take on the life of whatever performer does it next.”
— Carl Holder [04:39]

Conclusion

Carl Holder's Out of Order stands as a testament to innovative theater, blending personal narrative with experimental format. Through his unwavering commitment and creative collaborations, Carl has crafted a compelling performance that challenges both himself and his audience, inviting them to explore the unpredictable journey of life and art.

Notable Quotes:

• “The show is performed in a different order every single night... I have to be ready for anything and then take whatever ride comes my way that night.” — Carl Holder [01:44]
• “Working with him is more getting at the heart of what it wants to be and then helping it become that.” — Carl Holder [06:10]
• “If I can't complete the show for any reason, then I am retiring from theater forever.” — Carl Holder [10:02]
• “It's some of the most liberating fun I've ever had.” — Carl Holder [01:53]