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Special Episode: Matt Rodin on why ‘Beau the Musical’ is like nothing else in New York
00:31:27
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- [00:00]
Matt Rodin
Guys, thanks for helping me carry my Christmas tree.
- [00:03]
Matt Timminini
Zoe, this thing weighs a ton.
- [00:04]
Matt Rodin
Drew Ski, live with your legs, man. Santa. Santa, did you get my letter?
- [00:07]
Matt Timminini
He's talking to you britches.
- [00:09]
Matt Rodin
I'm not. Of course he did. Right, Santa, you know my elf Drew Ski here. He handles the nice list. And elf, I'm six' three.
- [00:17]
Matt Timminini
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- [00:25]
Matt Rodin
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- [00:37]
Matt Timminini
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- [00:50]
Matt Rodin
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- [01:08]
Matt Timminini
Hi and welcome to a special interview episode of Broadway Radio. My name is Matt Timminini. On today's episode, I'm in conversation with the star of what I think is one of the five best, one of the three best, potentially even the best musical of 2025, Matt Rodin of Bo the Musical. We are heading into the final three weeks of Bo's return engagement off Broadway. It had previously played downtown, then it moved north. It's currently playing at the distillery at St. Luke's just through January 4th is a remarkable show that focuses on Matt's character, Ace, looking back at how his relationship with his grandfather shaped who he was as a person and as a musician. As I tell Matt during the show, Sentimental Crier, if you're a regular listener, you know that. And I was openly sobbing multiple times throughout the show. You can ask Ashley Steeves. She sat next to me during the show and we were both in tears multiple times throughout. But Matt is one of the most multi talented performers working in musical theater. He's not only the star of this show that is deeply rooted in rock music. He also played Jamie in the national tour of Company. He recently played Roger at the Paper Mill. He's played Hedwig. He's Played Burger in Hair. He has done just about anything, but he an accomplished host and social media influencer. Social media personality. Very likely you've seen him on Instagram or TikTok if you are in all of those theater circles. He also writes a weekly newsletter on theater and culture in general called the Fourth Wall, which I highly recommend that you subscribe to. All right, so we're going to dive into all things Bow the Musical, but of course I have information in the show notes on where you can purchase tickets to head over to the distillery at St. Luke's during the final three weeks. Do not miss this show. You will kick your if you do not make sure that you check out Matt Rhoden along with Tony nominee Jeb Brown, who is playing Bo, his grandfather, and the entire cast of singing musicians who make up not only the band for the show, but also all of the other characters that we meet along the way. All right, with all that out of the way, here's my conversation with Matt Rodin. So, Matt, you have been on this journey with Beau for most of a decade now, and you have three weeks left. How are you feeling? What. What are the emotions right now that you're going through as you look for the last three weeks to wrap up this show?
- [03:39]
Matt Rodin
Yeah, that's. So. It's interesting, right? Like, I'm. I think the main thing I'm trying to do is stay present and not get ahead of myself because I know that that last week, those last few shows are going to be a lot to sort of carry because, yeah, it's just been such a long journey with the show. I've seen it through so many iterations. I mean, at this point, it's probably hundreds of drafts and versions of the show, but mostly I feel really thankful. I mean, I've gotten to sort of watch in a weird way, like, witness my own growth as the piece has grown. And I'm able to look back on, you know, when we started in those first couple of years, and even just something as simple as, like, how hard the score was for me to sing. And now singing the score, you know, seven times a week, it's like just to see that change, I think is like, very moving to me and is reaffirming of, like, all the work that I've done in the last seven years on myself and on my instrument. And again, to like, finally be sharing this with people. You know, this thing that I always felt like was the little. This little secret that I had in my pocket that nobody really cared about. And I would Say bo And they would be like, what is what? B o w. You know, to finally have people know about it and have people moved by it and affected by it in the way that they have been. It's like. It's just so. So gratifying. And so, yeah, I feel. I feel really proud. And I. And I don't. I used to feel like when a show closed, I would feel this sort of wave of sadness, which I'm sure will come. But mostly lately it's been feeling like closure. I feel like the end of this run is gonna be. It already has been, but I think it will be feeling a lot of closure around this just really long process that has been. I mean, pick an adjective. You know, like, it's all sort of baked in there, which I think is sort of. That's normal for a new project.
- [05:41]
Matt Timminini
You mentioned the fact that you have seen this show evolve over these eight years. You talk about how your voice has evolved over eight years, but how have you, as either a person or an actor, changed throughout this time period? Whether it was because of Beau or now that you were bringing something different to Beau than you did when you first started?
- [06:01]
Matt Rodin
Yeah. Thank you for that, Matt. I'm really going to try not to get too emotional here. It's. Yeah, it's really. It's really deep. I mean, you know, on the surface, I. I got married. I have a husband. I am, you know, eight years older than I was when we started. But what that looks like and what that means for me internally is that I. You know, one of the gifts of the show is that it. They always gave me permission to sing the way that I sing. I never felt like I needed to fit into a box. And that has translated into everything that I've gotten to do in the last eight years in my career across the board. Like, it's been about coming into believing that what I have is enough. And I've gotten to. And. And it's come to fruition, you know, like, the opportunities that I've had over the last eight years, everything from doing red carpets@broadway.com to rent a paper mill to being on tour with Company for a year, all of those things came from a place of me feeling like not necessarily I deserve this, but that I'm capable, you know, that I like that, that I have enough to give that I can do this. And this show was the catalyst of all of that. You know, Douglas, I mean, found me at this open mic thing that I was doing this event that I was host and gifted Me, this show in a way that, like, I just. I could never have foreseen. And so the fact that now I feel like I'm just more myself than I've ever been. And I trace a lot of that back to the beginnings of this show and just the opportunity to sing this score and tell the story in a way that they trusted me to do when I didn't trust myself. I didn't know what that was, but they said, you have more than enough. You have everything that you need in order to do this. And yeah, it's been so cool to sort of watch how that has translated into everything else that I've done.
- [08:11]
Matt Timminini
It's so interesting to me because so often we talk about actors becoming their characters and losing themselves in their characters, but oftentimes when we talk to actors themselves, it's the opposite. It's. They find themselves and bring themselves. And you just talked about how this journey has given you the opportunity to bring more of yourself to this piece. How does that change what you do? Obviously, Ace is not Matt and Matt is not Ace, but how does that, I guess, translate from you feeling more comfortable as a performer and as yourself into what we see on stage every night?
- [08:44]
Matt Rodin
Yeah, I think it's. For me, it feels like permission to be present in whatever experience I'm having that day. Whereas I think as a young actor and especially like in college, there's this feeling or there was this pressure to like, like I said, fit into boxes or have to, like, you know, like, there's that sort of age old question of, like, what's my type of. And the fact that I've now sort of been able to with this show, and I feel like in every project that I've done, find my own version of that, like, my own type. I don't feel like. I don't feel like anyone else, and I don't feel like I need to be like anyone else. And night after night to night, I feel like I can walk on stage and I know that I'm gonna say the same lines and sing the same songs, but. But whatever is present for me moment to moment. And that includes, you know, like, how my day went and how I'm feeling and if I'm tired or if I, like, I have a new nephew that just got born. And if that's like, bringing me joy in that moment and then also in the moment of, like, meeting the audience where they are, you know, like, just trusting that where I am is exactly where I need to be in that moment. And there's sort of this idea that we leave it at the stage door, which I totally understand on the surface. And I also think, at least for me, there is a richness when it comes to roles like Ace that I have the opportunity and the fortune to sort of just come in with wherever I am and meet the audience where they are. And that experience in itself becomes unique because of all those things sort of happening magically together at once.
- [10:31]
Matt Timminini
I want to talk about this show because it is such a lovely piece of theater. I am what I often refer to as a sentimental crier. So those family and friend kind of bonds, those are the things that make me cry far more than the super dramatic and sad thing. So as you can imagine, I was this one.
- [10:52]
Matt Rodin
This one. Gotcha. Yeah. Right. Yeah.
- [10:54]
Matt Timminini
Yeah. It happened fairly regularly sitting in the basement of a church in midtown. But what I think is so interesting is that we've seen, you know, memory plays and plays with actor musicians before, but really the story of a relationship between a grandfather and a grandson, like, that's not the type of story we see very often.
- [11:15]
Matt Rodin
Yeah, and I think you said it perfectly. I mean, that's the part that I again, like, because I've been with the show for so long. I forget that that's not the norm. Right. I forget that the grandfather grandson relationship isn't something that we see all the time. When I think about it. Yeah. I recognize that this is actually unique in that love story between an older man and a young man that's familial. That is not what we're seeing on stage or even on screen very often. And then you add the layers of actor, musician, concert, framing of a show, those things which, again, feel very normal to me because I've been with the show for so long. I have to remember that all of those pieces are new for people and are rare. And this immersive aspect of the show, the fact that we're out in the audience and we're running around again, it doesn't feel foreign and strange to me because again, I've just been a part of it. But I have to remind myself that when people come, it's so unique unto itself. There's nothing else in New York right now. And really, in the last two, five, ten years that I've experienced that is like this. And I just mean the combination of things. Right. It's the act, like I said, the actor, musician, the bar space, the framing of the concert, of the show. And then baked in the center of that is this love story between a grandson and his grandfather. And when you put all that together, you get this, like, magical combination that is moving people in a way. Like, you said that. I just. I'm constantly surprised by how moved people are every single night.
- [12:52]
Matt Timminini
Yeah. I think that the story that Douglas has written and obviously Ethan with the music adds to that and Josh's direction, like, it is just such a. A unique story that every time there was a new. I don't know, revelation is not necessarily the right word, but every little twist in these relationships, I was like, oh, God, that's. That's it. Like, that's the perfect thing there. As you are so close to the audience, are you able to kind of see them go on this roller coaster throughout the course of the show? Obviously, like you said, you've been a part of it for eight years. You know what's coming, but they don't. We don't. In the audience.
- [13:29]
Matt Rodin
Yeah. For better or worse, I see everything and I hear everything. That actually, it's more about the sound that I'm getting from people and the energy of that. That there's the sighs and the gasps and then the sniffles. There's the tears that we sense. And because we are on top of people. And like, the secondary playing space in the center of the theater, there are tables all around it. People are feet away from me having a full breakdown in the center of this theater. It is so immediate that you have nowhere to hide. I mean, I have friends that have come and seen the show and been like, I am trying to hold back my emotions because I realize, like, I'm in the light. And what we're finding is that the nature of the space and the fact that people can witness one another going through something is also adding to the experience, that it's not just about the story being told, but you're watching the man across the theater holding his partner's hand, and you're watching the mother put her arm around her son because the son is going through something. Like, those things add to the experience in a way that we could not have possibly predicted. And you're right. I do know sort of where that story is going. And my job, I feel. And this was something that Josh really imparted on me, was that, like, we have to be three steps ahead of the audience, and the goal is to continue to surprise, that you're never waiting for something and you never expect something is coming. And that's all in the pacing of the show, which I think from. I mean, certainly from when we started eight years ago, but Even from when we started doing basically this version of the show six months ago downtown, and then now in this uptown space. My parents have seen the show a ton of times and my mom last weekend was saying that it has. We have cranked up the pace in a way that is fun for us to do because it keeps it like really agile and light and front footed, but it also keeps the audience engaged because you don't know what's coming. And I think that again, all those things combined make it what it is. And I credit Josh with a lot of that and Douglas, of course, but I think Josh was instrumental in giving me the permission to keep pushing front footed, front footed and not hold back. Like, we earn the moments of stillness and silence because we're cooking at such a high pace.
- [16:00]
Matt Timminini
This might not have an answer and it's probably something that the audience will never recognize, but I'm interested from your perspective when you're talking about these, keeping the surprises and everything, because this is a frame story, because this is a memory play, does the Ace who is telling the story, is that awareness there when you are doing the flash, like the flashback scenes, or are they two different aces? Does that make sense?
- [16:27]
Matt Rodin
Yeah, I feel like it changes. I'm going to say this, and I don't know if this is the right answer. I feel like it changes night to night, moment to moment. I think if I think about it from a really logical perspective because Ace is narrating the show, I think it's easy to believe that, like, I know, not I know everything, but that I'm experiencing everything in real time. So, like, the interruption of Ferris at the beginning of the show is a surprise to Ace in the present. But he does know that he's going to tell this story. And because he's there just by the nature of me starting to tell the story, we know as an audience that, like, things are going to be okay. What that means, though, for me, experiencing these flashbacks, which are not all technically my own flashbacks, I sort of have to gauge night to night where I am. If I'm holding in my mom's flashback, the presence of her and I'm still in that reality, or am I present day Ace remembering my mom having this moment and I. And I have fun, like playing with that. I have fun playing with those things and it's nice to sort of not be in the center of those scenes because I kind of get to be like a secondary watcher. And I do feel in some strange way like a part of the audience in that way. Which is kind of nice because I get to sort of watch these actors, like, go through this thing and experience this thing, and then I get to come back in as if the thing never happened.
- [18:06]
Matt Timminini
Well, you mentioned all these other actors, and we've said actor, musicians, everybody, including Jeb, even though he's not part of, like, the band. Band are playing instruments throughout, and it is just such a remarkably talented and well rounded and so well put together group. Obviously, having to be a literal band probably goes a long way with that. But starting with, like, the relationship you have to have with between Ace and Bo and then obviously with you and Jeb, obviously, he has come in and out of the production over the last year for obvious reasons, with Dead Outlaw. But now that you guys are back together doing this show, what is that relationship like for you as people and for you as actors to be able to dive into some, like we said, a different story than we're used to seeing, but also one that has some pretty heavy emotions every single time you step on stage or whatever you want to call it down there at the distillery.
- [19:00]
Matt Rodin
Yeah, I mean, listen, he feels like home to me, you know, like, he, again, he's known me since I was 26, 27 years old, and so he sort of watched me grow into this piece. And in the same way, you know, I've gotten to see his career blossom and he's been working for a long time, but, like, to see him recognized in the way that he was recognized last season was so gratifying for me. And. And really, the thing that I say, which might sound strange, is like, it was actually very important for my parents to witness because he is someone who, again, like, I've had a close relationship with for all these years. And we've. I mean, I. I love the man so much, and he is, like, I look up to him and he's a father figure. Like, all those things I could say. But to have my parents, you know, know that I have this person in my life who has been a mentor and helping guide this process along, that I am the frontman of the band. But at least I have this other person here to help be a leader in this space, in this piece. And then to see him recognized in that way for my parents was so special because they understood that even after 10, 15, 30, 40 years in the business, sometimes it does take that long for the business, the mainstream, to catch up to the thing that we know, you know, we've known all along, which is that, like, he is so gifted and so talented and has so much to offer and give and is, in addition, a huge net positive for the. The. The musical theater canon, for the business itself. And for my parents to watch that happen was moving for me because I was like, look at Jeb. This person who you've respected forever, but now is getting the respect that he so deserves. Yeah. It's just been. It's been special. And to have him come back to the show after Dead Outlaw has been just so, so wonderful. And it feels like we never left. I mean, that's the. That's the best part about this piece is that him and I have been doing this for so long and saying these lines for so long that sometimes we catch ourselves, like, doing old chunks of dialogue because we just. We've just done it for so long that it's just baked into us. But, yeah, it's like, it's so easy, and it feels so free. And the feedback that we get from people and that I hear from friends who are actors is that, like, it doesn't feel like either of you are acting. It feels like you two are just, like, speaking and just being present with one another, which is, like, the best compliment you can possibly give us, you know?
- [21:32]
Matt Timminini
Yeah. And it's so interesting that you talk about not feeling like you're acting, and maybe this doesn't make sense, but for me, especially in this situation, and I don't know that I've ever felt this way with, like, all of the John Doyle, actor, musician, things where I feel like that's kind of like. I don't want to say gimmick, because that sounds bad, but, like, that's a thing that's very obvious in a Brechtian way.
- [21:51]
Matt Rodin
Yes.
- [21:52]
Matt Timminini
With Bo, with Beau, I feel like the fact that everybody in the show is also in the band kind of removes the artifice that we feel in musical theater. You're like, these people just come up, start singing, like, 100%.
- [22:04]
Matt Rodin
Yep. Yeah. I've had people that are not musical theater people see the show and say the exact same thing that you just said that. That the witnessing the band play the songs feels different, even though they are theatrical in that they are talking about a certain part of the story. The fact that we're not necessarily breaking out into song or that we're singing to one another. Right. We're not. We're not addressing one another through song. We are presenting the songs. It has a different effect on the audience. And for us, and for me, too, I don't feel the need to necessarily have to drop into the emotion of the song. My job is to perform the song, to be present with the band, present with the music, play the guitar, sing the lyrics as clearly as I can, navigate my voice in the way that I'm navigating my voice that particular day, and trust that the music is landing in the way that it needs to, in the same way that I would if I was playing just like a regular concert gig, which, at least for me, is so, so freeing. I mean, I went to school for musical theater, so I know that world so well, and I was on tour with Company for a year. Like, I know how to do a musical theater number, but the privilege and the space. The privilege of the space to get to just do the songs as songs is something that I don't think I. And I don't think anyone in the band takes for granted. It's really special.
- [23:28]
Matt Timminini
Well, I did see your Jamie on tour, and it was incredible. Are you. Now that you've got three weeks left of this, are you looking forward to getting back into a more musical theater thing? Are you looking forward to doing Oklahoma. Or something? Golden Age, Kind of get back into the canon there?
- [23:47]
Matt Rodin
Yeah. Listen, I. Honestly, I feel really excited because now I feel like anything is possible in a way that I didn't feel probably two years ago. You know, the fact that I went basically straight from Rent into Company, into all the World's a Stage, which was this Little Adam Guan musical that I did off Broadway at Keene, which, again, was, like, really contemporary musical theater, and then back into Beau. I have gotten to sort of, like, cover so much ground that I just can't wait to see what the next thing is. And I. And I. And my hope is that it's different. Like, that's the thing I like, is I like being pushed and stretched in a way that, like, I haven't been yet. And I. Yeah. And I just have a feeling, in a sense that, like, I don't have anything on the books, but I have a. I just have a feeling, in a sense that, like, something surprising and interesting will come, because it. It has. That's just what it's been in the last three years. It's like I've constantly been shocked and surprised by the opportunities that have presented themselves, and the ones that have passed me by weren't right for that moment, and that's okay. But. Yeah, I'm just. I'm. I can't wait. I can't wait to see sort of, like, what the next thing is and how it manifests.
- [24:54]
Matt Timminini
Yeah. Well, it's Interesting, you say, because obviously, as we've talked about, you've been working not only on Beau, but just in musical theater in general for a long time. But I would not be surprised if, whether it was on tour and of those regional things or with Beau, that, like, some people are coming to the show and maybe know you more from, like, social media or from hosting and you're. Yeah, go ahead.
- [25:13]
Matt Rodin
It's so crazy to me. It's so crazy to me, Matt, because I. You're right. You're totally right that, like, a lot of people know me from something other than performing, which it is not. I shouldn't say. That's not the surprising part. The surprising part is that anyone knew that I was making content, because I really. The thing I say is, like, I thought it was like, my parents and my college friends and, like, the people that I'd worked with watching these videos. And so the fact that they saturated in a way that I couldn't have seen or imagined is really special. And to finally be sharing this part of me with people who've known me for. The other thing is, you know, I won't lie to you. It's really gratifying. It's really, really cool to get to be like, yeah. And also, I do this, and I'm not. It's not just like, oh, I'm an actor, but it's like, no, like, I actually, like, I've put in time and energy and care and. And I do think, you know, in some strange way, they all are very connected. Right. They're all about showing up in the present moment and being honest or doing something truthful that's both entertaining but also touches something human. And so, yeah, to finally have this be the way that I'm sort of presenting myself in New York is. It's better than I could have possibly imagined, honestly.
- [26:36]
Matt Timminini
Well, one other thing. In addition to all the social media and acting you're doing is your newsletter, the Fourth Wall. I don't know. When I kind of look at some of these things, it seems almost brave to me that you're doing this, because talking about the industry, but also the culture and the commentary, that seems like maybe somebody, a manager or an agent might be like, matt, maybe this isn't a great idea, especially when you're. This latest edition is about kind of the controversy around the Queen of Versailles closing and the reaction to that. Is there any fear in speaking out and touching on some of these things?
- [27:13]
Matt Rodin
Totally, 100%. I would be lying if I was saying that there wasn't But I think the way that I sort of qualm that fear is by. And actually, I find that fear to be very useful because it gives me the sort of push that I need to go, like, one, two, three levels deeper and really try to look at something, a concept, an idea, a moment, like the queen of first eye closing from a nuanced perspective from seven different angles, and try to get to what's at the heart of it. Because I think ultimately, if you read anything that I've written, the thing I'm going for is it's much deeper than just, like, you know, a commentary. That's not my goal. I have found that it has been so powerful for me as a. As a human being, as a person, to have the space to, like, untangle the things that I'm experiencing. Because this year has been so strange and surprising for me as an actor and as a creative person. And so to have this space where I get to sort of explore all those things has been just so helpful. And then to hear from people in the industry, actors that I admire, my peers, saying to me, hey, this was actually really helpful for me in terms of reframing this thing that I'm also experiencing. There's nothing more gratifying than that. And so, yes, for sure, there's always, like, a worry like, oh, my God, who am I going to piss off with this? But again, my hope is, like, that I can use that to my advantage to then, like, push deeper into nuance so that it's not about. It's never about criticizing. It's never about pointing fingers or blame. It's trying to understand what's happening underneath something or some phenomenon or some experience or some moment in a way that I hadn't thought about and hopefully maybe, like, other people hadn't thought about.
- [29:13]
Matt Timminini
Well, I will wrap this up and let you get on your way, but I have one more question, because you have three weeks left of Beau. Those happens to coincide with Hanukkah, Christmas, New Year's, Kwanzaa, everything in between. Beau is not a holiday show.
- [29:30]
Matt Rodin
But as we talk about, not really.
- [29:32]
Matt Timminini
No, it's not a Christmas Carol or anything like that, but like, those feelings of family and everything that, to me, at least, I associate with the holidays, it does feel to me in some ways like this is a holiday show. So if people are going to come over these next three weeks, what can they expect to get out of this experience?
- [29:50]
Matt Rodin
Matt, that's such a great point. Wow. Yeah. I guess my hope is that if people come and if they come with family and even if they don't, that they leave with maybe a question that they can ask someone in their family to help them understand one another more deeply. You know, that like maybe there's a story that you haven't heard or I mean, in our case there's someone you haven't met. But you know, but there's, but there's something about someone in your family that maybe you can learn that you didn't know before. And if our show can inspire people to sort of, you know, push that button or ask that question, I think that that is, that's a win. Like, that's the, that's the big win. You know, I always hope that people leave the questions, but your, your question is making me think that I, that yeah, we have a unique opportunity to sort of inspire people to go one or two or three levels deeper with the people that they love and they think that they know, but maybe there's something that they don't know that it just takes a particular type of question to ask.
- [31:01]
Matt Timminini
Yeah. Well, that's lovely. The show is lovely and touching and all of those things that I think people want around the holidays. Then there's also some maybe people in your family who you might not want to be spending holidays with that I think that might reframe some things. So. But Matt, thank you so much for talking about this. One of the, one of my favorite shows I've seen all year and I wish you just such tremendous luck in the last three weeks and then as you said, whatever's next, we will all be watching. So I appreciate you taking the time and happy holidays.
- [31:31]
Matt Rodin
Matt, thank you so much. This was so great and really, really just thoughtful and meaningful questions that I just. Yeah, I really, really appreciate it. Thank you for this.
- [31:54]
Matt Timminini
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- [32:12]
Matt Rodin
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