A (2:50)

Yes. And I'd love to talk about some of the changes. There were some Moments that were cut, there were some additions, especially at the very end that I caught. Why did you want to make these changes and how do you feel they affect the show?

B (3:05)

Well, you know, the show runs at about two hours now, and that's a long time. And particularly the attention spans of people these days in the 20 since we premiered the piece, you know, they're relatively shorter. There's no excuse for it, but it's really true. We thought, well, if there's a way to sort of do some trims as well as for the motor, to keep that motor running. I felt strongly, even though it's a beautiful song, a song like Golden Boy, which is wonderful song, but it's. It made the audience relax at a wrong place. And we needed to really just barrel that piece on right onto the end when. When things start really heating up. And I felt that the exercising. That was a great idea. George was one who suggested doing a similar thing at the end of the show. I. And he remembered it. I didn't remember it, believe it or not. And I wrote the thing was a sort of a jazz chorale that happens at the end when burrs is shot. And we added that, which was kind of fun to have it back in the show to hear.

A (4:11)

Oh, so that had been cut from the original production, then right up to

B (4:15)

the first preview, obviously on Broadway. Like I say, I didn't remember it. George did. And we had to. Actually, I had to go to the library. The library has my papers, all my music. Music and my notes, and Lincoln Center Library, New York Library. And I had asked Doug Rassad over there to say, doug, can you look through the files and see if there's this piece of music? And sure enough, he found a copy of it there in the files. And so we reinstated it, which is fun to do.

A (4:46)

Oh, wow. So what was involved? I mean, if you only had, what, 10 days to do those.

B (4:52)

Very little. Little time involved. So it's. That's the process at City Cent at the. You. You get the music and you get the steps and you put it in, you know, and you learn as you go. I, you know, I. I don't know how the actors do it, but it's kind of fun in some respects. It reminds me of my days doing theater in New London, Barn Playhouse up in New Hampshire, where we would put on a show once a week, lighting everything. And so it kind of reminded me of that.

A (5:24)

Excellent. And in terms of cutting and adding, I remember you telling me a long time ago that the show was originally about six Hours long.

B (5:34)

Oh, we had a six hour version. It wasn't planned to be, but we, we thought about it, let me put it that way. And there's enough material there on the, on the editing floor to. To make an eight hour piece. If you want to do that, you're welcome to that.

A (5:49)

Think it'll ever happen? Could we do that somewhere? I mean, immersive theater is so the thing these days.

B (5:54)

So big. But I don't know about six hour version of it. That's a lot of real estate and a lot of. A lot of money to do that six hour version.

A (6:04)

Very true. So how do you think a concert format with a big orchestra changes the show both in terms of the visuals and the music?

B (6:15)

Oh, gosh, that's a hard question. Having done it already in the way that we wanted to do it, obviously on Broadway, it's nice to see and hear it again in its full form. So I don't think much has changed in terms of the material itself. It's just a fun way of revisiting it was to allow certain casting ideas that had been floated, we had floated around and to see them fulfill themselves, I. E. Jordan Donnica to play Burrs and Queenie, played by Jasmine Rogers. And then that's interesting in terms of the dynamic of two black actors playing roles. And to deal with the theme of masks, which is very prevalent in my version of the piece. I was inspired by the line in the poem, Queenie was blonder. HD stood still and she danced twice a day in the vaudeville. Vaudeville. Her face was a tinted mask of snow. Yeah, lines in the poem. And that was what really struck me when I read the poem. And that's what I went with when I started adapting the piece because I thought, well, what are the masks that we all wear, the racial masks that we put on and hide behind? Our gender masks, our, you know, all our sexual masks, all the masks that we wear to survive, to get through the day. And, and what happens when those MA masks are removed? Who are we? And so it's very fascinating dealing with the issue, you know, during the. The racial issue of what was white skin, black skin, black skin, black facing, white facing. It's very intriguing, this version. So very exciting to see this.

A (8:03)

Yes, I'd actually love to ask you to. My next question on the list was about casting the original production and then casting this one and how different they are, especially in terms of. Vanessa Williams was original, originally cast as Queen back in 2000. Yes.

B (8:20)

Pregnant. So then we had to move forward with our scheduled Production. So unfortunately, she was unable to do it. We fortunately got Toni Collette to play the role.

A (8:29)

Yes. And Toni Collette was amazing.

B (8:32)

Yes, she was.

A (8:33)

How do you feel the show. I'm trying to think of how to phrase this. How do you feel the show comes across, depending on the casting of the lead characters there, Ethnic background, racial background, and how they interact with one another, given that this is very much a 1920s story, when that would have such a huge impact on their lives, where they could go, what their opportunities were.

B (8:59)

Yes and no. To that point there. Jenna, you're talking about a period in Manhattan that was extremely fascinating time. The late 20s area in which we're setting this piece was quite a. I don't like the word, but melting pot is the word that comes to mind. Where uptown meets downtown, where black meets white. And all these, all the cultural fusion that was happening that's not been had for quite a while. Cultural fusion. There's been appropriation, unfortunately, in our culture as of the last 20 years, but nothing is what we had in the 20s here in Manhattan, where this, this fusion of uptown, downtown, black, white, all that to make great, fascinating art. And so that's where this period is this, the period of the story is set in. So it made kind of sense to have this Frisian happening in this piece with, with the, with, with the casting. So I, I, I, I love it. You know, anything to make the piece even more complicated is what I say, because we're all complicated human beings and we don't just go to a party. There's a whole stream running underneath everything, you know, and it's fun to explore that.

A (10:22)

It's just fascinating. I saw the show at the first performance and vividly remember seeing Toni Collette and Tonya Pinkins and their chemistry as Queenie and Kate, and the jealousy that Queenie feels for Kate, that Kate's career is taking off. And now seeing this interpretation. And do they have that same jealousy? Do they have the same complicated feelings for each other?

B (10:50)

Well, that's fascinating there too. You know, passing as white, as they say, as the expression goes, is so much different than to have Queenie go, wow, you just made it successful and you are black without changing the color of your skin to, like, where I went out. How, you know, is amazing and wouldn't, of course, cause jealousy if, maybe if that's what the case is, and for Queenie in this prediction. So I think that that does play into it. Very, very, very much so. And the same thing with Burrs, who now in this Penultimate scene, puts on blackface because Queenie is fond for a black man who's playing black. And to see that dynamic is wild.

A (11:40)

Yeah.

B (11:40)

Wow.

A (11:41)

Yeah, it was fascinating. And, of course, remembering what it was like 26 years ago and what the dynamics were, you can remember, oh, my God. Through a haze. Through a haze. Memory.

B (11:55)

But you are younger than I am. You are such a baby.

A (11:58)

By five minutes. By five minutes.

B (12:01)

All right.

A (12:02)

But it's just fascinating that without changing a word, at least as I recall, without changing a word, that it's such a different feeling. And it's wonderful to see how differently it comes across. I really was fascinated by that. And to that end. Oh, sorry. Yes. I didn't mean to cut.

B (12:21)

No, go ahead. Please do.

A (12:23)

To that end, I wanted to ask, how do you feel about reinterpretations of your work, especially when it comes to casting and to direction?

B (12:33)

Well, it can. It. Most times. It's. It's always fun for me. It's always great to see people's interpretations of work. On the other hand, sometimes it can be kind of hairy. I remember seeing a production of See what I Want to See in Los Angeles one time, and I had to go to the music director afterwards and say, you know, it's called See what I want to see, not play what I want to play. Which was kind of a mean thing to say, but I didn't have any choice to. But to say, you know, there's, you know, don't just play anything. There's a score there, you know, that's. That dictates what you should play. So it can be kind of hairy sometimes, but most times, I'm generally happy that people have their interpretations to it all. They should. I mean, it's theater, for God's sakes. You know, it's not written in stone. You know, it should change. Every production should change.

A (13:24)

When you are involved with a production like this one, do you encourage directors to challenge or update the material? Or do you want them to, as you said, see what I want to see, not play what I want to play? Do you prefer fidelity to the original vision?

B (13:41)

I believe in that to some extent. What I believe in most, Jenna, is authenticity. If things are done with authenticity

A (13:53)

to

B (13:53)

the art form, then it works for me. When people are trying to be pretentious and. And, you know, not following the authenticity of the piece, that's when it becomes a problem. And that's true for anything that you do, you know, to try to be authentic to the material, and that requires a good eye, requires taste, and requires a good sense of imagination. You know, you can't be too literal, because with music theater, because, for one thing, nothing's real. Nothing is real. You know, we. That's the whole contract that we have, we give to our audience. And when they buy that ticket, that's a little contract, you know, and on that ticket stub it says, I have the right to, you know, you know, not believe what I'm seeing. But they. And believe what I'm seeing at the same time. So they see the microphones, they see the lights, and they. And they suspend their disbelief. And it's the contract that you have, the audience. And. And so therefore, when a director comes in and starts to be, you know, to kitchen sink with something that doesn't need to be when it's a musical because it's not, you know, you kind of go, okay, wait a minute, wait a minute. You know, think about this again so often, just to the material.

A (15:08)

Excellent. So for this production, were there musical details or orchestrations that you were excited to revisit or refine?

B (15:19)

Oh, yeah, a lot of them. All of them. It's always fun to hear a full orchestra. You know, generally these days, we're lucky to get that many pieces to play. Your material, generally, the. The. There's a lot of reduction to orchestras these days, so it's wonderful to hear all 17 pieces hammering away up there. It's great. Two trumpets, you know, force, four reads. It's great. You know, it's like. Oh, yeah, that's what it sounds like. You know, bringing down 50 pieces.

A (15:47)

Oh. Oh, that would be. Yes, eight hours, 50 pieces. I meant. Yeah. Hearing that full trumpet blast to begin the show, that was such a thrill.

B (15:59)

It's kind of funny, isn't it?

A (16:00)

Oh, it's. Yes, but it's wonderful. It sets the tone, literally, from the first note.

B (16:05)

It scares the shit out of people, I'll tell you. Yes.

A (16:11)

Well, to that end, how do you feel a concert presentation reveals different aspects of the show compared to. I don't want to say fully staged, because this was largely a fully staged production.

B (16:23)

Yes, very much so. Yeah. Lillian really staged the life out of this one.

A (16:27)

Yeah. Do you feel that this brought out some new elements that you hadn't considered before from other professional productions of it?

B (16:35)

Well, yes and no. Like, you say it like it was very fully staged. So I don't think there was much concert ties in going on with this, to be honest. So I can't answer that question very well, Jenna. I will say that. Yeah. But I can't answer that one there, Jen. I'm sorry, I don't, you know.

A (17:00)

Oh, no, no problem.

B (17:02)

And yeah, that's it. And concert. It was really. She. Now, what I will say is that generally at. There's. There. There wasn't a lot of opportunity for the actors to get. Dive in to their character as deeply as they would want to. But, you know, and so that's one of the issues with. One of the drawbacks of doing something very, very fast and doing version of anything is that when you really want to sink your teeth into something, there really is no time to do that. So you have to learn as you go.

A (17:35)

Were you able to talk with the performers and help them build their characters?

B (17:40)

Only on a. On a very minimal basis because time is. Is of the. You know, time is something they had a lot of blocking to do and a lot of memorization. And that music is no walk in the park. So they say.

A (17:56)

How do you. Oh, interesting. How do you mean walk in the park?

B (18:00)

It's not. It's not easy music. I mean, it has, you know, it's. It's complexities to it because the characters themselves are complex and the music, you know, is. Is part of that. And there's a lot of tricky harmonies. Not your typical A, B, A numbers, Although, you know, there. It does follow certain formulas because there's a lot of pastiche in the show. But it's complicated in that sense that, you know, how do you. And memorize at the same time? That's where the complication arise.

A (18:31)

Sure. And, yeah, I didn't see much in the way of folders on the stage.

B (18:36)

Exactly. I know. I don't. I don't know how they did that. I don't really don't.

A (18:40)

It was impressive. Absolutely. And again, watching this revival, did you find any new themes or did you start thinking of any more questions that the show could answer while seeing this new interpretation of your work?

B (18:58)

Cuts. Trims, you know, going up. Maybe we can trim this, maybe we can trim that, you know, or trims

A (19:06)

Beyond Golden Boy or.

B (19:09)

Oh, yeah, other moments.

A (19:10)

Oh, really?

B (19:11)

Yeah, a couple other moments and a couple, you know, it's called vacuuming out the fat. You know, we don't need that. We don't need that. Let's keep this moving here. Is that necessary? You know, those kind of things pop into your head. You go, you know, if there were another chance to go around with it, I would go, you know, I don't think we need this. I don't think we need that. You know, it would Strengthen this, it would strengthen that. It's all about strengthening at this point. Cuts are about strengthening the vehicle.

A (19:36)

Sure.

B (19:36)

Here.

A (19:38)

So if you were writing this show now for the first time with those cuts that you mentioned in mind, what do you think you might do differently?

B (19:46)

Oh, honey, I could. I ain't writing this one again. No, thank you. No, I'm not able to answer that one there, Jenna. I wouldn't know.

A (19:56)

Okay. What would you hope this new generation of audiences takes away from this production?

B (20:09)

Well, a chance to hear something grown up and, you know, maybe adult in that you don't normally get these days in the theater. You know, something that's not, you know, as accessible, meaning to me, kid friendly. You know, I'm, you know, this is not a kid friendly show. And that's kind of nice, I think, for a change.

A (20:33)

Absolutely. I mean, and given that I was only a toddler when I saw it.

B (20:37)

You were a toddler all those years ago. You were a baby.

A (20:42)

Ah. But loved it.

B (20:45)

Didn't do anything to change your life.

A (20:48)

Oh, not at all. Of course not. Michael John macusa, thank you so much for talking about your show and for your work. Thank you. Wild Party is running through March 29th at New York City Center. Tickets are available at nycity center.org thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me.

B (21:07)

Thank you, Jenna. Lovely just talk to again. Take care.

A (21:09)

Lovely talking to you. Bye Bye. Ra.