Jan Simpson (5:26)

Was the conversation prompted by the play?

Bess Wall (5:29)

Yeah, yeah. I was writing the play, and I was asking these questions, and I knew that without giving away too much for people who haven't seen the play yet, I knew that I wanted the narrator of the play to have a moment of conversation with her mother and to be able to ask her mother some really deep questions about her mother's life. And so I was able to do that with my own mother. And I think, you know, so much of what the play about is also sort of what is the burden for us as the sort of next generation, or as you know, children of that generation. What's the burden on us to sort of seek those answers and understand and ask the important questions before it's too late? You know, it's a shared burden. It's a burden on their generation to sort of pass down these lessons. But we also have to ask, and that's part of what the play is about.

Jan Simpson (6:25)

Now you were able to have this conversation with your mom and you were also had sort of a front row seat, going to miss with your mom. But did you do any other kind of research for this play? Talking to maybe some of your mother's friends or reading biographies of women from that time? Did you do any other sort of research?

Bess Wall (6:51)

Yes, I did. That was a big part of my process because, you know, obviously whatever I gleaned as like a 3, 4, 5 year old was not exactly, you know, material that I could. I mean, some of it honestly does underpin the play. Just a sense of these really primal memories that are so powerful and so alive still. So some of it, I think, did give me a certain kind of sense of, I don't know, like an authority almost of having been there even as a three year old. But I also obviously had a lot of research to do in terms of understanding the period and the people who lived through it. So a lot of it was consulting primary resources, books, documentaries, watching interviews, television shows from the period. All of that was part of it. And then another piece of it was speaking to actual women from that time who had lived through the movement and who were quite active in the second wave and who had been in consciousness raising groups themselves. And a very sort of lovely organic thing happened where I would speak to one woman and then she would say, you know, oh, you've got to talk to so and so. And then she would say, you've got to talk to so and so. And it was very interesting to talk to them about both what they experienced then and what they were feeling about our current political landscape and, you know, to sort of see what. What had changed about their feelings about activism and what was still the same.

Jan Simpson (8:27)

I'm really interested in how you chose the characters you decided to focus on, because there's a group of five or six women that we follow in this play and they're very different kinds of women. And so how did you come up with these particular women?

Bess Wall (8:53)

Yeah, they're a quiet, eclectic group. The way that the group is formed in the play is that one of them, whose name is Lizzie, who's the Mother of the narrator of the play has put up flyers because she wants to create this consciousness raising group. And so she's put up flyers. And these are the women who've responded. And I think she probably expected to get a few more respondents than she. Than she gets. You know, we played around in rehearsal with versions where she set up like 25 chairs, but only like five people come. But the people who come are a varied group. And that was important to me because I wanted to find a way to involve a lot of different perspectives without making it feel overly rigged. Like, oh, one person like this, one person like that. You know, it's a. It's a fine line, that sort of calculation. So I knew that I wanted to include a range of people. And I think some of them were influenced by women I spoke with. Some of them were sort of blends of people that I either knew about from my mom's past or knew about from research that I'd done. You know, they're kind of hybrid. None of them is a one to one of any particular person. But they do sort of take inspiration from different women that I spoke with. And it's such a strange thing. Like, what inspires you or sticks with you as a playwright? There's something a little bit magical about it, you know, to try to sort of really find out where, where these characters came from. As I told you, I've wanted to write this play for so long. And then I. Not to sound too woo woo about the whole thing, but I started researching and then I started to sort of see in my head this like, waiting room where these women were sitting, like, waiting for me to tell their stories. And I didn't, I was busy and I had a lot of other projects and I couldn't get to them. And I could feel them just sitting there in this waiting room saying, like, we're ready, we're here. We're waiting for you to show up and write this play for us. And so I really, I really kept sort of saying to them in my head, hold on, I'll get to you. I'll get to you. And as they sat in the waiting room, I think they became more and more specific for me. And then I went to an artist retreat in Florida called the Hermitage. That's just this incredible, incredible place. And the play kind of just poured out of me in like two weeks, you know, a very rough draft. Not at all like what you song on stage, but like a version of it. And then. And I think the other women there were. There were I think it was almost all women. There was one man at the Hermitage with me. Just their voices and their art also sort of inspired me and worked its way into the play in sort of surprising ways. So that's a long answer, but it's hard to talk about inspiration. There's something sort of like, who knows where it comes from?

Jan Simpson (11:52)

Were there women who you had to take out, or did you look at the group and say, oh, I need X?

Bess Wall (12:03)

That's such an interesting question. There was never a character who sort of made it through a full draft or even a partial draft that then I removed. Those women who are in it were really the women who were in it from the beginning. The end of the play changed a few times, sort of. I'm not a playwright who ever outlines or knows where they're going when they start. Which is unfortunate, because sometimes it turns out that I'm going nowhere. I have to abandon the whole thing. But I cannot. I shouldn't say I can. So far, I have not been able to really know where I'm going when I set out and write something that feels alive and dynamic. So I knew that these were the people in the play. And that kind of stayed the same through all the different drafts. But the realization that I was heading towards a sort of moment of connection between the narrator of the play and her mother. That was something that I discovered multiple drafts in. That wasn't the climax of the play. In my earliest drafts, I'm also really.

Jan Simpson (13:10)

Interested in the structure of the play. Because the narrator interacts with the audience a bit. She also has other actors on the stage assume different roles. And I'm just wondering, how did you come up with this approach?

Bess Wall (13:33)

Yeah, I had never written a play with what they called direct address in it before. You know, with a character who can talk to the audience. It just had never come up for me as a mode of storytelling that matched the stories that I was trying to tell. So I was excited when I realized that that was going to be an element of this play. And it was sort of liberating for me to have a character on stage who could talk to the audience, who could admit mistakes, who could say things like the narrator says of, you know, I think I'm doing a bad job. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how to tell this story. Story, like being able to show the themes of the making of the piece within the piece itself, was interesting to me and felt freeing. So I think that was something that I was very much Exploring in the. In the structure of the play and then being able to sort of embrace theatricality, you know, have multiple actors play the same character at different points in the play was really interesting to me as well. You know, to sort of do something in the theater that you just can't do anywhere else. You know, you can't do it in a movie. You can't like to really make a piece that belongs in the theater, and that's not possible in other. Other mediums. Felt really exciting to me as well.

Jan Simpson (15:00)

Well, I don't think it's giving away anything to say that there is nudity in the play because the phones are locked up when you enter the theater to protect the privacy of the actors. Why did you decide to include that scene?

Bess Wall (15:22)

It was a bunch of reasons. One reason was in all the research that I did and the people I spoke with, this was an important element of consciousness raising group. The meeting in the nude and the sort of expression of intimacy in that way was something that they did in the 70s and that the women that I spoke with were still very proud of. And it was sort of something that they really featured in our conversations. So there was just that piece of. You know, that piece of. It was important to me. The play, in a way, is about many things, but one thing that about, I think, is female friendship and sort of the. The intensity of female friendship and of intimacy in those friendships. So I think the nudity also felt like a natural expression of that. And I felt that there was something radical and important about including female nudity in a way that's not sexualized or gratuitous or exploitative, but that's really sort of honest and truthful. And it was difficult. You know, it was not an easy decision. It was something that talked about a lot. And we had an amazing intimacy coordinator, a woman named Kelsey Rainwater, who really walked us through the process and made sure everyone's boundaries were respected and had a lot of private conversations with the actors. And. And I had a lot of conversations with Kelsey as well, because she. She being an intimacy coordinator is very attuned to the idea that nudity can often be gratuitous and playwrights or directors will add it in just for some kind of shock value. And, you know, it was like, through working with her that I was able to make sure that that wasn't what this was. And it meant a lot to me that she felt that this. This expression of nudity on stage was respectful and essential and crucial to the storytelling and belonged in the play. And belonged in the theater.

Jan Simpson (17:25)

As you say, the play works on so many levels. Because another thing it does, and it does it without hitting people on the head, is it deals with gender and it deals with race. And so it really works on just a lot of different levels. And I was wondering if any of the women that you interviewed, including your mom, what their response was.

Bess Wall (17:54)

You know, the women that I spoke with. And I'll just say my mom also. And so far, just women of the generation that was active in the 70s who've come to the play have been very effusive about feeling very seen by the play. And that means a lot to me. And I think, you know, the fact that the play embraces and sort of tangles with some of the complications of that time doesn't sort of paper over the difficulties, but also acknowledges the achievements and the bravery of those women. That's the balance that I was trying to strike. It was difficult because it would be easy to imagine a play celebrating these amazing women or a play that's just incredibly critical and some takedown. I didn't want to do either of those things because I don't think that's. I think any movement has instances of incredible heroism and things that are thorny and difficult that we're still reckoning with. So that was really wonderful to see. And then what's also been really gratifying, honestly, is seeing younger women come and also find their own points of entry into the play and be moved by it. And I should say, not just women, people of all genders, people who have a wide range of backgrounds and experiences. Experiences. And who identify in a wide range of ways to be able to reach them with this kind of a piece has been incredibly meaningful to me and really has taught me a lot about the story that we're telling.

Jan Simpson (19:35)

When I saw the play, the person who was having the most obvious response was a guy who looked to be in his 20s. And he was so into your play. He was nodding. He actually did a. Then there was a moment where he put his head in his hands. He was so emotionally moved. So this is a play that works for, I think, a lot of different demographics.

Bess Wall (20:09)

I loved hearing that. And I think because in part, the play opens with the narrator coming on stage and talking directly to the audience with the. The house lights still up, you know, inviting a conversation. And people do talk back to her. Not every night, but there are some responses. There's something about that opening and I'm sure also the subject matter of the play that sort of invites conversation with the audience. And more than any play I've ever done, people seem to be really having strong feelings and often sharing those feelings with the rest of the audience and. Or with the actors on stage. And I love that. You know, the goal in making this was always to make a play, but also to have it feel almost like a theatrical happening. Like we're gathered together. We're all in this conversation together.

Jan Simpson (21:06)

Well, I think also what's going on in the world right now, it's also a bit. Without overstating it, it's a bit inspirational. And I think people really welcome this reminder of women, people coming together and trying to make a change and make a difference. So thank you for doing that and thank you for talking to us about it.

Bess Wall (21:37)

Well, thank you. It's been such a nice conversation, and I really appreciate it from my end, too.

Jan Simpson (21:44)

And thank you for listening. I hope you'll come back next time. And if you have any comments, questions, or suggestions, please send them to me@janbreadwayradio.com.