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This Week on Broadway for December 29, 2024: Jennifer Ashley Tepper
00:59:55
Peter Filichia, James Marino, and Michael Portantiere talk with Jennifer Ashley Tepper about The Jonathan Larson Project, which is opening at the Orpheum Theatre on February 14, 2025. We also talk about Jennifer Tepper’s new book,
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- [00:57]
James Marino
Hello and welcome to Broadway Radios this week on Broadway for Sunday, December 29, 2024. My name is James Marino and in the broadcast today we have Peter, Felicia and Michael Portantier. Peter is a playwright, journalist and historian with a number of books. Peter's new Day by Day wall calendar, a show tune for today, 366 songs to brighten your year is showing up. I'm seeing a lot of social media posts where people are posting their calendar. Peter, congratulations.
- [01:28]
Peter Felicia
Thank you. Nice.
- [01:29]
James Marino
I haven't gotten mine yet because I ordered mine from the evil Amazon and Amazon seems to be backed up right now.
- [01:38]
Michael Portantier
But.
- [01:40]
James Marino
But I do see lots of people have it.
- [01:43]
Peter Felicia
So yeah, it's happening.
- [01:45]
Jennifer Ashley Tepper
Yeah.
- [01:46]
James Marino
Peter has columns at Masterworks Broadway, Broadway select in many of the places. Also with us is Michael Portantier. Michael's a theater reviewer and essayist. He's the founder and editor ofcastalreviews.com. he is also a theatrical photographer whose photos have appeared in the New York Times and other major publications. You could see his photography work followspotphoto.com hello, Michael.
- [02:08]
Michael Portantier
Hello.
- [02:09]
James Marino
Hello. And Jennifer, Ash Tapper is with us. But I wanted to ask Peter and Michael, but Jen, if you have an idea here, chime in because I didn't prep you guys for this. But December 29th, I think of New Year's Eve and I think of that Frank Lesher song, what are you doing New Year's Eve? Maybe made famous by Ella Fitzgerald. Has that ever shown up in a Broadway context in some sort of review or something like that?
- [02:43]
Peter Felicia
I wonder if it was in Perfectly Frank, which was a musical of the Helen Hayes Theater in the early 80s. It might have shown up there because we did have that Frank Lesser review which was very entertaining. And by the way, the only time I have ever truly seen anybody stop a show when Debbie Gravett, then Debbie Shapiro after she sang Junkman, we she had to come back out. She had disappeared behind the curtain and she had to come back out. That doesn't quite answer your question, but nevertheless, I've never forgotten that moment.
- [03:16]
Michael Portantier
But the interesting thing to me about that song is people keep saying, well, it's not really a Christmas song. And some people say that it shouldn't be sung near Christmas because there's a line about maybe it's much too early in the. And supposedly even Lesser himself said that. But I'm sorry, I think it would be very strange for someone to be inviting someone else to New Year's any earlier than mid December. I mean, if somebody came up to you, somebody who's trying to spark you in court. You came up to you in July and said, what are you doing New Year's Eve? Isn't that so?
- [03:58]
Jennifer Ashley Tepper
I'm amazed that I'm excited for somebody to do it with a stalker dramaturgy and concept. It's July. Oh, yeah.
- [04:06]
Michael Portantier
That would actually be hilarious.
- [04:08]
James Marino
Yeah, yeah. That voice that we heard was Jennifer Ashley Tepper. Jennifer is an acclaimed theater historian, author and producer. She has been the creative programming director at 54 below for the past decade. How is it a decade, Jen? It just seems like yesterday. Oh my goodness. Great.
- [04:27]
Jennifer Ashley Tepper
Basement. Time flies in our basement.
- [04:30]
James Marino
Well, I, I mean, it also says here that you have curated, produced over 7,000 shows. Holy moly. So that's the 10 years. My quick math tells me that 7,000 shows is 700 shows a year, which is like two a night, you know, sort of.
- [04:51]
Michael Portantier
But six of those are mine.
- [04:55]
Peter Felicia
A little more respect just a little bit.
- [04:58]
Jennifer Ashley Tepper
You know, I'm so excited to be here with you all, you know, three of my favorite theater experts. So thank you for having me on.
- [05:04]
James Marino
Oh, that's very, very generous of you to call me an expert. I'm just an annoying person that just talks every week. So, Jen, you've got a handful of things happening this week. Oh, well, this week announced you had the world premiere musical of the Jonathan Larson project to play the Orpheum Theater begins on Valentine's Day, 2-14-20. So, my God, your, your history, present and future is very much attached to Jonathan Larson again. So tell us about this project.
- [05:51]
Jennifer Ashley Tepper
Sure. You know, it does feel like the project itself aligns, you know, history and present and future very powerfully. So, you know, it's all connected. I started working on the Jonathan Lawrence project actually over a decade ago as well as, you know, worked at 54 below for a decade. Have worked on this show for over a decade. It began in its like, earliest form. I was on the artist board at Encores Off Center. First Jeanine Tesori's artist board and then Michael Friedman's artist board and something that we would do as like artists. It was like me, Shana Taub, Michael R. Jackson, Sam Pinkleton, like all of these amazing folks, like in my generation of theater makers who've gone on to do such incredible things. And we would create these lobby projects in the city center lobby that complemented production. So one of the ones that I did was this miniature Jonathan Larson concert of his lesser heard work before a performance of Tick Tick Boom at Encores off center that, you know, starred Lin Manuel Miranda among Others. And after I did that five song mini concert in the lobby, I started talking to the Larson family, who are just the greatest human beings, you know, the most wonderful estate. And you know, they, they've been so supportive this whole time about expanding it into a full kind of show or concert and something we'd premiere at 54 below. So I spent a number of years going back and forth to the Library of Congress in Washington D.C. which is like the most incredible treasure trove of, you know, I'm sure you've all spent time there researching theater history, but the Jonathan Larson collection is remarkable. And when I went there for the first time, I thought, oh, it is my responsibility as a theater historian to look through and listen to everything if I'm gonna create this. Because he left behind so many tapes and scripts and lyric drafts and journals and you know, there was so much material, hours and hours of tapes. And so I spent a number of years doing that and listening to all of his like unheard songs, songs that had been cut, songs he wrote for the radio or jingles or, you know, all kinds of projects. And then we premiered the concert vers of the Jonathan Larson project in 2018 at 54 below, which was this incredible experience of, you know, being able to fully musically realize a lot of Jonathan Larson's songs he'd left behind that were undiscovered. So I worked with my favorite musical genius, two time Tony Award winner Charlie Rosen, who music supervised, orchestrated and co arranged as we, you know, would take a demo that Jonathan Larson had recorded of himself and his piano in 1983 and then we would, you know, kind of transform it into what we hoped was true to his intentions musically and honored, you know, what Jonathan did, but also had a full band and a cast. And you know, I created this theater piece out of the songs that I hoped had connections between, you know, different things Jonathan was saying and different songs, but that sort of came together to form a whole, you know, there are five characters in the piece. The idea of it was to create kind of like the show he would have created himself to showcase his songs, although he never got the chance to do that. And so ever since 2018, we've been developing the show, but like so many, you know, projects, it definitely stalled due to Covid and then like the theater backlog. And we did a really wonderful workshop of the piece this past summer with John Simpkins, who's one of my favorite directors in the world, coming on board to direct and you know, have been working on kind of further developing the show as a theatrical, fully realized piece for the stage. And then, you know, the Orpheum was our dream theater. My producers on the project are also. My Boss is at 54 Below, the founders of 54 Below, and they produce Stomp. So they were there for a very long time. With Stomp, we felt like it was so true to Jonathan. Jonathan Larkin spirit to have a theater that was in the Village that's like a theater he would have spent time at that still feels like a theater that, you know, it would have felt like during the time he was writing these songs. So that's. Believe it or not, that's actually the short, fast forwarded version. All right, Jennifer, we're so excited to be at the Orpheum and to show people what we've been working on as a fully realized theater piece for the.
- [09:41]
Peter Felicia
Jennifer, you and I, a few years ago, were on a panel at Penn State with John Simpkins. Is that when you met him or had you known him before we went out there to Pittsburgh?
- [09:51]
Jennifer Ashley Tepper
You know, I. Good question. That was so fun, that panel we did. I've known John Simpkins for so long because in addition to being one of my favorite directors, he's also my, you know, number one collaborator, Joe Iconis, favorite director. So John Simpkins, actually, the very first show I ever worked on with Joe Iconis, who I've, you know, collaborated with for decades and produced Virtual on Broadway. The very first show I worked on with Joe, directed by John Simpkins, and that was Things to ruin in 2009. And then I've been producing the Joe Iconis Christmas extravaganza for over a decade. And John's been directing that. John directed Joe's show, Blood Song of Love at Ars Nova, which was like a pivotal creative moment for all of us. So John is just one of my favorite directors. But crazily enough, in addition to that, I did sort of meet John for the first time working on Joe's stuff. But I was a fan of his before that because John used to be the director of. You know, he used to direct all of the shows at Steinhardt at nyu, student there. And before I knew, like, Lauren Marcus, Jay Armstrong Johnson, all these actors that are now my friends and collaborators. I was watching them in these John Simpkins productions of Merrily and Floyd Collins and going like, wow, whoever's directing at Steinhardt is the best. So we go way back.
- [10:58]
Michael Portantier
Oh, boy. I didn't realize that Lauren was another NYU person.
- [11:02]
Jennifer Ashley Tepper
Yeah, I watched Lauren play Mary in Merrily youy Roll along, which is my Favorite musical. I watched her do it multiple times and was just like, like, wow, I'm such a fan of that girl. Not knowing, you know, she'd become one of my best friends. And John Simpkins, his taste in me, like he directed Sweet Smell of Success there, you know, again Johnson as Floyd Collins, which I remember like, you know, industry people, Broadway folks coming to see these NYU productions back when there because they were so terrific. And John is so, so good at being true to writers intentions, which is why in the unique, you know, event that we're in with the Jonathan Larson project where we're trying so hard to be true to Jonathan's intentions but, but he's not actually in the room. I knew that John would be such an extraordinary director who would take such care with that aspect of it.
- [11:46]
Michael Portantier
Some years ago I became intrigued by the idea specifically of Superbia, which of course is discussed so much in Tick Tick Boom. And this was well before the movie. But just from what was said about Superbia and of course hearing the song come to your senses, I thought, you know, I wondered if it was in the shape to be performed in full. You know, I had no idea. And I remember I went to Jen and discussed maybe doing some kind of concert version of it at 54. But she said, well, she said we already have this other project that's very much in the works. And I knew that already by then that you were very much in with the Larson family and the Larson estate. But I guess my question is, do you think two questions is Superbia in a form where it could actually be performed in full and do you think that will ever happen?
- [12:46]
Jennifer Ashley Tepper
You know, it's a great question and believe it or not, it's actually like the third time that someone has asked me this makes me so happy. Like I've been doing so much like archival work leading up to our pre production for the show. So it's come up. I'm obviously not the Larson family or the estate, so I'm not the final word on this. But the interesting thing, and I will say I also was the historian consultant on the Tick Tick Boom film for Lin Manuel Miranda, which I, you know, one of the greatest honors of my life was being a small part of making that movie. And the reason Lin asked me was because he already knew I was working on the Jonathan Larson project when, you know, Tic Tic Boom started happening. And I love what he and Stephen Levinson and the whole team did to kind of expand what you see in Tic Tic Boom, the film about Superbia. I remember I played sextet for Lynne and Stephen Levinson at the Library of Congress and they were like, holy crap. And then, you know, that making its way into the movie, like the full circle journey of trying to tell more of Superbia. So I'm really excited that you and other people have been intrigued by that as well. The thing about Superbia and having spent so much time at the Library researching is that it. There are so many versions of it. Like, Jonathan Larson worked on Superbia for so many years, but the ways that he revised it, like, there's not just like, the early Superbia and the later Superbia, there's like 60 different script versions. And there are so many things that he ended up liking from different versions or felt like, you know, there's so many different versions. So there's that part of it. And then there's also also the fact that, like, if Jonathan had lived, I'm guessing hypothetically, he might have, you know, had this wonderful success with Rent, maybe gone back to Superbia and, you know, rejiggered it or not, or trusted someone else with it. But without him being here, it's so hard to know which part, like, later in his life he actually went on record, like, as being like, wow, you know, that was the right thing to do to stop working on that because it was. It got muddled. And I just think. And again, I'm not speaking for the family or the estate, but. But just like how when Tick Tick Boom was made into this three person musical, which of course it never was when Jonathan was alive, there had to be a lot of decisions made about, like, how to be true to his intentions and who could, you know, navigate. And David Auburn came on board as a book writer and the producers made decisions about what to change and what to keep and, like, to create an actual version of Superbia that feels like it would have been true to Jonathan's intentions, would take some major decision making about a lot of different material from it. And I just, I just think it. I don't think it'll never happen. Like, maybe it could, but it's not as simple as, like, yeah, let's take the 1987 script. You know, it has, like, a lot of complicated stuff that people would have to decide in order to create something, even a concert version.
- [15:19]
Michael Portantier
So. But more likely it sounds like a concert version would happen than a, you know, a full book production.
- [15:26]
Jennifer Ashley Tepper
I'm not sure. And, you know, like, one of my favorite, I guess I shouldn't say favorite songs because it's like having favorite children. But one of my favorite songs in the Jonathan Larson Project is from Superbia, which is One of these Days. And it's like, I love this song so much. I think it's such a core part of what we're saying in the Jonathan Larson Project, which is like, the dreams that, you know, Jonathan Larson had for himself One of these Days. And that's not from the final version. You know, that song got revised so many times. And I'm just one person with, you know, my subjective opinion. But, like, the version I think we have in the John Larson Project is so great. And if you were doing superb in concert of, you know, 10 different versions you could pick from, that's not even in it. Like, there's a lot to kind of say, sift through.
- [16:07]
Peter Felicia
Did you ever hear about the night that he did a few selections from it at the ASCAP Workshop?
- [16:15]
Jennifer Ashley Tepper
Yes. In fact, I've listened to recordings of that. They're at the library. But tell me what you know about it.
- [16:21]
Peter Felicia
Well, I was there, and.
- [16:23]
Jennifer Ashley Tepper
Of course you were.
- [16:26]
Peter Felicia
But I'm telling you, people were yelling and screaming. There were people who hated it like poison, people who adored it like roses. I'm telling you, I have ne. I went to many of those events, and I'm telling you, I never saw. It was like, 15 minutes of yelling and screaming, and you have no idea what. What's right. You have no idea what's wrong. What, are you crazy? That stinks. Oh, my God. It's revolutionary. It was incredible. That's at the library. I didn't know.
- [16:52]
Jennifer Ashley Tepper
I'm obsessed with the fact that you were there. It's at the library, and it's one of the recordings I play for a lot of people, because you hear not just Jonathan getting feedback, which is exactly what you just said. It's like, some people are going, wow. And some people are like, this is trash. Start working on something else immediately. But you also hear Jonathan responding to them. And, you know, there's that ASCAP one, but there's a number of different times that he presented it and got to hear feedback. And, you know, Sondheim gave him feedback on it. Peter Stone, Martin Charnon, There's a lot of luminaries that were around while he was around doing that. So I think of it as, like, a lot of our musical theater writers have sort of their calling card musical that gets them in the door or, like, gets their opportunity. And obviously, like, what's so interesting to me is that Superbia never would have happened if Jonathan hadn't written 1984, which. His dream was to adapt the book, 1980 into a musical and have it produced in the year 1984. And when he couldn't get the rights and that didn't happen, he thought, oh, I'll make my own dystopian, you know, futuristic musical, which became Superbia. And if Superbia hadn't happened, he never would have written Tick, Tick, Boom, which was about, you know, partially about writing Superbia. So this all happened for a reason, if you follow the through line.
- [17:58]
Peter Felicia
Sure.
- [17:59]
James Marino
Jen, how has. What's the evolution like of the project since presenting it back 10 years ago until now? And are you. Are you integrating audio clips and things like that from the Library of Congress into it, or how does it. What. What. What's it like?
- [18:23]
Jennifer Ashley Tepper
Yeah, so we've definitely solidified and developed the setting of the piece, the characters of the piece, the overall thesis, how different songs connect to each other, how different characters connect to each other. So it feels like, you know, I. It's. So it's not indefinable, right, because there's so many song cycles that were inspiring to me. Songs for New World, you know, starting here, starting now. And there's also so many kind of, you know, like, sort of reviews that were inspiring. But the show itself, while it doesn't have a traditional book, it's not. It's certainly not at all like, Jonathan Larson wrote this. Like, that's not what it is. Even though I do love some of those shows as well. It's. It's got a lot of, like, connective tissue, I guess I would say. And, you know, the songs in the show, a lot of them are so political, and the way that they connect to each other, I think has gained additional residents resonance since 2018. So there are songs that are in the show now that were not in it in 2018. If you love the, you know, the cast recording we made then, or the concert so far. So far, I will say we haven't gotten to rehearsals yet. We haven't cut any songs. We've just added some, although it's still, you know, 90 minutes. So, you know, we're just, like, making it a theater piece where, you know, they're in this bar or they're on the roof, you know, smoking a joint on the roof like Jonathan did. And, you know, it's more solidified where things are happening and how they all connect to each other. It's also, you know, it was a little abstract where we were during the concerts, and I kind of like that. But in the show, it's definitely 2025. And these are artists who've discovered Jonathan's songs from the 1980s and 90s 90s in 2025. And there's a lot of nostalgia for those decades and that period, but it's very much present day. And, you know, so much of what I was shocked and, like, astounded by while I was doing my research was Jonathan writing, you know, a song called White Male World about, like, you know, it's just another day in the white male world. Or, you know, I discovered his song that was about fake news the weekend after the 2016 election in D.C. in the library. So there's so much that, you know, we've kind of mined through to figure out how it might be resonant to current day while letting the audience discover that for themselves.
- [20:30]
James Marino
So, Jen, because, you know, you have so much free time, you also wrote another. Another book. And I say another book. Is this the fifth book or the 15th book?
- [20:47]
Peter Felicia
It won't be long before that happens. It is magnificent.
- [20:51]
Jennifer Ashley Tepper
Oh, my God. Thank you, Peter.
- [20:53]
James Marino
Well, let's get the name of the book. Woman Writing Musicals, the Legacy that History Books Left out. So what was. Tell us, what was the. The genesis moment that was like, I have to write this book.
- [21:08]
Jennifer Ashley Tepper
Well, you know what's so funny about the timeline and the haha, like, I've never been busier is, as you know, now, like, I started working on the John Flores project over 10 years ago. I started writing women writing musicals in 2020. And it's just like with show business. You all know this, like it when it rains, and you never know what the exact timeline is going to be. I started writing Women Writing Musicals, the Legacy that the history Books Left out during, like, Deep Covid. It was that time we were all in our apartments, walking groceries, banging on pots and pans, watching the news with horror. And I thought, okay, like, is there something I can do to keep myself occupied? Is there some dream thing I can work on in my apartment to, like, kind of, like, help maintain my sanity? And I thought of. I had thought it had been percolating for a little bit of like, I think that it would be really cool if there was a book specifically about female musical theater writers. And oh my God, there's never been one written about, like, that top that. The corner of that topic of that specifically. And I started writing it and just kind of without telling anyone, researching it and going into it. And within a few days, you know, I was like, putting like, these Gretchen Cryer, Nancy Ford albums on my stereo player. And I was like, you know, digging into these articles from the 1920s about women no one had heard of that wrote musicals. And I. I was so, like, fascinated and down this rabbit hole and thought, this is the perfect project for right now. So those women really kept me company during COVID But because there's over 300 women in the book, and because of the level of research involved, it took me a bit of time to just make sure that the book was as accurate as I could make it. A lot of the women, you know, the whole point is, like, let's put some women in the history books that are really obscure, that haven't been written about. So I had to do a lot of, like, you know, recon on making sure things were, again, as correct as I could. And I just took the time to kind of write it and make sure that it had all the pieces I wanted to. So it was published November 19, this past last month. And so I'm just excited people are reading it. And, Peter, your piece about the book, like, it made me so happy and honored, so thank you.
- [23:05]
Peter Felicia
Well, it really is sensational beyond belief, and I heard about so many women that I never knew existed, and I imagine that had to happen with you, too.
- [23:15]
Jennifer Ashley Tepper
Yes, yes. And it's not. I mean, it's not just women that are obscure. Like, we all know this. Like, there are so many musical theater writers. There are so many musical. And even the musical theater fan often can only name, you know, the 20 that are most well known to them. So some of it was going like, oh, like, you know, where are women in the history of writing musicals? And some of them who were really successful that we should talk about more. You know, like, Mickey Grant, who wrote book, music and lyrics for a Broadway musical, was the first woman to do that, and it ran over a thousand performances. We don't talk about her enough. That is someone who's like, that's left out of the history books. It deserves more. But some of it was just like, listen to this fascinating story of someone who wrote one Broadway show and also, like, was an Olympic tennis champion or Saint Palamo or, you know, it was like, let's explore not just the fact that they were women, but just all of the work that they did, the triumphs, the weird corners of history. It was such a fun book to write.
- [24:10]
Peter Felicia
Do you think that Dorothy Fields would have been able to achieve what she did if she had not been a member of a famous theatrical family?
- [24:19]
Jennifer Ashley Tepper
It's a great question, because I tried to Be sensitive to the way that this was written about in the book. But so many women, especially in the first half of the 20th century, who I wrote about, really the only way that they got a seat at the table, quote, unquote, was because they had a brother, a father, a spouse, you know, someone who they was in their family, who was in the theater, who brought them along, who said, oh, my sister can write this musical with me, or, oh, my daughter can work on this show. And so, obviously, women had to work twice as hard to, like, keep that opportunity and, you know, show their talent. And there was so much that they were up against. Like, you know, women are writing musicals when they couldn't even vote or they couldn't even, you know, have their own bank account, all of that. But some of it was that men vouched for them. And I think there's a way to see that in a positive light. You know, as I was writing this and very different than Dorothy Fields, but I was writing the story of K. Swift, which I'm always so fascinated by, by, you know, her intersection with George Gershwin and all of that. But George Gershwin, I discovered writing the book like it wasn't just K. Swift who he had this affair with, who he kind of got these jobs and vouched for. George Gershwin actually got a number of women jobs as, like, rehearsal pianist, as writers, and that's not nothing. And in a time when these are meant to be allies, like, it's actually kind of. It can be seen as a positive thing that someone went, hey, my sister can write this musical, too. We wish it didn't have to be that. But it is a positive thing that allies kind of contributed throughout the book.
- [25:41]
Michael Portantier
And I haven't. I haven't read your book yet, but I'm sure you go into how wonderful Cy Coleman was.
- [25:46]
Unknown
Yes.
- [25:47]
Jennifer Ashley Tepper
She worked with so many women.
- [25:49]
Peter Felicia
Yes.
- [25:49]
Michael Portantier
Yeah.
- [25:50]
Peter Felicia
Yeah. An equal opportunity collaborator. No question. No question. Yeah. It was also, I mean, little nuggets, like the idea that Dorothy Hayward, not the Gershwin brothers, not Dubose, but Dorothy Hayward was the one who said, you know, Porgy should follow best to New York.
- [26:09]
Jennifer Ashley Tepper
Yeah.
- [26:10]
Peter Felicia
I mean, really, even little nuggets like that turned out tremendously interesting to me. So. So really, it's a sensational book, and I will stand by my statement that it will certainly be one that will get awards as time goes on.
- [26:26]
Jennifer Ashley Tepper
Thank you. That's so nice.
- [26:28]
Peter Felicia
Yeah.
- [26:29]
James Marino
So 300. 300 women that you have done research on and published this book, did you. As you were. As you were getting into this, did you define what was going to be included and what was not going to be included, and did it increase or decrease or make you think that, oh, maybe we have enough material to do another one.
- [26:56]
Jennifer Ashley Tepper
You know, one of the things that I did because I wrote this book during COVID that I would hope I would have done anytime, but I had more time than usual. You know, it was the only time when I. And like, oh, my God, I'm unemployed, sitting in my apartment, you know, going to the grocery store in a mask. Like, I have time. And so one of the things I did was I truly. I combed IBDB for every musical theater writer with a female name. And I went down the rabbit hole of newspaper archives beyond any I've researched in because, you know, it was also kind of a restriction that turned into kind of a creative challenge. I used all the books in my library, you know, and that's not as expensive, extensive as Peter's, I'm sure, but, like, a lot of books in the library and then tons of. Not just the New York Times archive, but, like, let's go into the archives for all these hometown papers and local papers and find out, like, if there's stories that have been written about these women. Anyone, Anyone that had that musical theater writing credit. And so, ironically, in a book that was about women left out of history books, there were a few women here and there that I was like, I can't find any information about them. So, you know, I kind of talked about that a little bit in the introduction, but for anyone I could include, even if it was just like, hey, they contributed these two songs to these two reviews, and here's a teeny bit of content context. I erred on the side of inclusion, and that's why it ended up being over 300 women in the book.
- [28:11]
James Marino
Wow. So, Jennifer, I want to thank you so much for joining us, just joining us on Broadway Radio, your two projects, the Jonathan Larson project is going to play the Orpheum Theater on the Lower east side beginning February 14, 2025. We'll have a link to that in the show notes. And also your. Your new book, Women Writing the Legacy, that the history books left out can be found wherever finer books.
- [28:44]
Peter Felicia
If you can find a fine bookstore anywhere. Yeah.
- [28:48]
Jennifer Ashley Tepper
Thank you so, so much for having me.
- [28:50]
Peter Felicia
Yeah.
- [28:50]
Jennifer Ashley Tepper
I've been honored that the book is at the Drama Bookshop, it's at Theater Circle, it's at the Museum of Broadway, and it's made me be like, oh, look, look how many theater places in Midtown are selling real books.
- [29:00]
Peter Felicia
Yeah. Yeah, indeed.
- [29:03]
James Marino
All right, thanks. Thanks for joining us, Jennifer. We'll speak to you soon.
- [29:06]
Jennifer Ashley Tepper
Thank you so much for having me.
- [29:08]
James Marino
Okay, so, Peter, you made your way down to Madison Square Garden to see. Is this a. A new production of Annie or is it a remounted production of one we've seen before?
- [29:23]
Peter Felicia
I think it's new. Of course it is. Business as usual in terms of the way that stage, it looks like Annie's we've seen in the past. And it's new, but it's been toured.
- [29:34]
Michael Portantier
I mean, it's not. It's not just.
- [29:35]
Peter Felicia
It wasn't just Madison Square Garden. Right. So I don't know where it's been, though. Do you by any chance?
- [29:44]
Michael Portantier
Not specifically, no.
- [29:45]
Peter Felicia
Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm a big fan of Annie, and I'm not ashamed to say it. A lot of people certainly loved annie back in 1977 when it was a surprise hit. Nobody expected anything from this show. When it opened at Goodspeed, some critic called it Oliver in Drag Rag. There's a lot more to it than that. I mean, we go into that. It's funny. He was made famous by a comic strip. And there's a line in the show where they often say to Ms. Hannigan, Annie was on the radio, and Ms. Hannigan says, yeah, and soon she'll be in the funny papers. And it didn't get a laugh at the performance in Madison Square Garden because so much time has passed that the audience doesn't even know that Annie was a comic strip character. But back in. And we did, and as a result, it seemed like, oh, this was going to be a spoof, a silly show. We never expected to be emotionally involved with it in the way that we did that. We cared so much about that little girl, and we cared so much about that man who wants to adopt her. And the kids says, I want my real parents. And. And it's so sad that the original cast album does not include the lyrics with Daddy Wabach sings at the end of the first act. What a thing to occur, her finding them, losing her. No, you won't be an orphan for long. It's. It's a wonderful sentiment, and it's so terrific that you get so emotionally involved that you didn't expect to. So the thing is, of course, that Annie became a cliche because most shows that become super successful do become cliches. And it becomes Okoran to be able to say, oh, I don't like it anymore, because the rest of the public has found it. But, damn it, it's a terrific musical. It does everything right. And so it has lasted. And Madison Square Garden was packed with people who were so appreciative and they really loved it. Now, of course, the main drawing card besides the title is Whoopi Goldberg. Peter Kelston, who listened to the podcast, said, she's walking through it. No, I disagree. She's not walking through it, but she has a very, very different take on the character. It's a very low key take on the character. And I don't think it particularly works well, I will say that. So Peter and I are on the same page on that, but I don't believe it's just. I'm bored. It's. Ms. Hannigan has been done in a certain way for so many years. I'm gonna try something different. I don't think it works nearly as well, but the audience adored being in the same room with Whoopi Goldberg and they were very, very pleased. I also, long time listeners know that I hate anachronisms and certainly she provides one when she talks about Annie being a gold digger and she sings the word gold digger to the tune of Gold Finger. So things like that are never going to please me. But Hazel Vogel is her name is terrific as Annie and so is Christopher Swan as Daddy. Wbucks. Again, you know, if you feel like seeing Annie again, you're going to remember it the way you saw it in the first place because the staging is. Is qu. Similar. So. And this is a big place. I mean, I was, I was in row E, but I was in 202 and it turned out 102 was the section in front of 202. So I really felt like I was in the first row of the first balcony. So it's. This is, this is a big place. And keep that in mind. And if you're a little farther back, you're really going to feel like you're watching trained fleas do the show. So be aware that Good seat is in the 1O sections and not the 2O, God forbid, the three O's. But, but I, I really had a wonderful time. I really do believe, you know, when people talk about the golden age of musicals essentially ended with Fiddler, I don't believe that at all. I never have. Because of course soon cabaret followed in 1776, followed in the Sondheim Prince musicals followed. But I think Annie really is the lie last smash hit of a certain brand of Broadway musical that looked like a Broadway musical as they did in the golden age. So. So it's always fun for me, who was certainly going to shows during the last gasps of the Golden Age, to see another Golden Age musical, the last great one. And it is a great one, and I was delighted to be there, and there were tears in my eyes many times because of the emotion and because of the fact that I was seeing a Golden Age music. So. So I can recommend that. But do be prepared for a very different Ms. Anigan.
- [34:46]
James Marino
So the this Annie tour still has 20 dates left. It's playing through January 5th at Madison Square Garden, but it goes to Baltimore, Maryland, Birmingham, Alabama, Peoria, Illinois, Wallingford, Connecticut, Melbourne, Florida, Indianapolis, Reading, San Francisco, Fresno, Costa Mesa, Washington, Spokane, Washington, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Athens, Georgia, Lincoln, Nebraska. So it's all over the map. It is crisscross in the U.S. yeah, I recommend it.
- [35:16]
Peter Felicia
Then Whoopi Goldberg isn't going to go with it to all those places, is she?
- [35:21]
James Marino
No, I don't think so. I'm not, Michael. You know, she doesn't really say.
- [35:26]
Michael Portantier
What I had read was she was only doing that.
- [35:28]
Peter Felicia
Yeah, it would make sense.
- [35:29]
Michael Portantier
New York engagement.
- [35:31]
Peter Felicia
That could be a blessing in disguise.
- [35:33]
Michael Portantier
Actually, Peter, I have not seen the. A friend of mine did, and he described the show and her performance pretty much along the lines. You did, although he didn't maybe have the vocabulary for it. Would you describe it as a deadpan performance?
- [35:48]
Peter Felicia
Yes, I think that's fair. Yeah. Yeah.
- [35:50]
Michael Portantier
So it sounds like kind of, to me, you know, and it's. You know, as you say, it's probably valid to play the role that way, but we've never seen it that way. And also, maybe it wasn't the best idea to play it in such a huge thing, theater, as a. In a deadpan.
- [36:06]
Peter Felicia
Yeah, I do agree with that, too. Yeah. But again, the audience did not care.
- [36:11]
Michael Portantier
Right, Right.
- [36:12]
James Marino
Did you mention the director, Jen Thompson?
- [36:15]
Peter Felicia
No. Who indeed was in the original cast of any. She wasn't. She was in the original production. I should say. She wasn't the original cast, but she took over, and I think that's one of the reasons why it's business as usual. And again, business as usual is accomplished. Implement. Okay, but. But again, it must have been very hard for her to. I'm guessing. I'm guessing to. To deal with Whoopi Goldberg, who has star power. I don't mean Whoopi Goldberg has a reputation for being difficult, but I imagine when you're somebody who's far less known and far less successful and far less legendary than Whoopi Goldberg, that if she says, I want to do it this way, it's very hard to say no, but it's always been done in a way that gets etc. Etc. You can, you know where I'm going, so I'll quit while I'm behind.
- [37:06]
James Marino
All right, so we'll have a link to the Andy production and the tour in the show notes. It's at the theater at Madison Square Garden through January 5th. And then, as I mentioned before, crisscrossing the country. Michael, you were over 54 below and Birdland for a number of shows. Let's start off with Christine Petty in Snow Business.
- [37:28]
Michael Portantier
Yes, I had a great week. I saw Christine's show at 54 on Monday and we, by the way, I guess we mentioned it, but in our list of so much that Jen does. Jen Ashley Tepper, she is the program director at 54 below. And so she's responsible for booking every. Everything that plays there. And so I'm certainly grateful that she's booked my shows there. And I go to see so much there and the level of professionalism, talent is so high. I've very, very rarely seen a misfire of a show there. So just wanted to say that. And then there are people who keep coming back because everyone loves them so much. Christine is certainly one of those. She has done this show elsewhere sometimes. I know she did it at the Laurie Beach Richmond Theater last year, but of course, right at the moment they're closed, preparatory to reopening hopefully very soon at the West Bank Cafe. So here she is back at 54 doing snow business. That's S N O W B I Z N E S S with our beloved musical director, pianist Matthew Ward. And it's just the greatest show, heavily based on Christina, Christine's wonderful, phenomenal impressions of great stars, including some that everyone does like, I guess, Streisand and Garland. But then Christine imitates some people brilliantly that few, if anyone, else does. For example, her Angela Lansbury, as I've said on many occasions, is just mindboggling how much she sounds like her. If you close your eyes, you really would think that Ms. Lansbury was revived on stage. And another one she that Christine does to an absolute T is Maggie Smith that just causes the audience to completely lose it. So it was a wonderful evening of all kinds of traditions, traditional Christmas songs and parodies of Christmas songs and new combinations of songs. And she also gave a wonderful tip of the hat to her cousin, Maria Traverso, who I knew I had met through Christine. And Maria died, I think it was actually, I'm not sure if it was during the calendar year. But if not, it was right before that. And she was able to. Christine was able to just really pivot from all the hilarity and do a beautiful, beautiful tribute to her. So that was when I had tears in my eyes on this occasion. So I really loved seeing Christine's show. And then on Friday, I was back at 54 below for Melissa Erico and Billy Stritch with a show that they did that was basically celebrating Christmas and New Year's with Ted Firth on piano and Tom Hubbard on bass and Daniel Glass on drums. And that was a really, really fun show. Melissa is so smart. In addition to her great talent and her great beauty, she's so smart and she always writes wonderful shows with great patter. So this one was quite a lovely mishmash of different kinds of things. For example, when I say mishmash, the opening number was Jingle Bells in to Everybody says Don't from Anyone Can Whistle. And then we had My Favorite Things, Sleigh Ride, I'll Be Home for Christmas. The gorgeous song I remember from Evening Primrose, the Sondheim song, which I'm not sure if all of our listeners know this, but it's not a Christmas song as originally written, but it has a lot of winter images in it. And so some years ago, Barbra Streisand stand went to Sondheim and asked him to write a new verse, introductory verse to the song that would make it a Christmas song. And he did, and she recorded that. So now Melissa is singing it in the show. And it really is quite lovely. It doesn't, you know, in my mind, completely still work as a Christmas song, but such a beautiful song in any, you know, on any level that it was lovely to hear it. Then Melissa did a whole Sondheim parody section, which was basically a Christmas song sung in the style of Sondheim. So traditional songs, White Christmas, the Tom Lehrer song, I'm Spending Hanukkah and Santa Monica, etc. Etc. Lots of really wonderful Stu. And it helped to further put me in the Christmas spirit, even though the holiday was already over by then. And then finally, just last night, I got to see the marvelous Marilyn May at Birdland in the downstairs theater at Birdland. And that was great as always. She I've said this before, aside from the fact it's just mind boggling that Marilyn's talents are so completely intact at age 96. And aside from that, one of the things she does that really is the mark of a great cabaret artist, specifically is she'll be singing a song that she sung dozens, maybe hundreds of times and she'll do it in just a slightly different way. For example, she might get to a certain line and she might speak that one line rather than sing it, or sometimes maybe speak one word within the line and also maybe phrase it differently, back phrase it differently or forward phrase it differently. And it's just enough to give you the idea that she's singing the song for the first time and that the words are absolutely occurring to her as she's singing them. It's an incredible, incredible talent. And to be able to, to, for anyone to be able to do that, but let alone to do it at such an advanced age, I think it's, it's stupendous. So it was a wonderful night of lots of her favorite songs. She does a magnificent Fats Waller medley that was there. She did a song I've almost never or never heard her song sing before the Midnight Sun, a Johnny Mercer song, the Gershwin's Love Walked In. I don't think I've heard her sing that very often. But then also some of her greatest hits like 50% from Ballroom and the jazz standard Take Five, which is, you know, again, difficult for anyone to sing because it's so fast and the words come so quick and so willy nilly that you really have to have amazing breath control and just enunciation. But she does a definitive version of it. And then she, towards the end of the show she sang Cabaret, which I'm so glad that she keeps doing that. And specifically when she recorded the song in the 60s, as the first person to record it and have a hit with it, she only sang the bulk of the song. She didn't sing the, the, the part that begins. I used to have a girlfriend known as Elsie because without that whole section the song is much lighter and not as dark and they, that's what they wanted for, you know, for a pop hit, but some. Just a few years ago, Marilyn started adding that Elsie section. And so of course now the, the song has a completely different meaning and I, I think that's another mark of her, her talent and her growth that she would, after decades of never singing that part of the song, just add it in her 90s. So she is, she's really just amazing and I hope you get to see her soon.
- [46:18]
Peter Felicia
I've often wondered about that section of the song because it doesn't seem like that would be part of the song that Sally Bowles herself would be singing in the Cabaret. It seems to me that's might Even be a private moment of hers. It's been a question I've had for a long, long time, needless to say. What do you think, Michael? Is that part of the song?
- [46:43]
Michael Portantier
That is an excellent point. I would say that what I get from it is that that moment is the one moment in the show when her performing life and her offstage life coincide.
- [46:54]
Peter Felicia
Yeah.
- [46:55]
Michael Portantier
So I think she is. I mean, I've always thought that we are meant to think she is actually singing that for the audience, but it's. And maybe she doesn' Realize until she gets to the line about the corpse.
- [47:07]
Peter Felicia
Yeah.
- [47:07]
Michael Portantier
That she's singing about herself.
- [47:11]
Peter Felicia
Yeah. So it's just another cabaret mystery, which it's got plenty of them. So that's.
- [47:17]
Michael Portantier
Well, we should ask. We should ask John while he's still here to ask him.
- [47:21]
Peter Felicia
Yeah, right.
- [47:24]
James Marino
All right, so Michael went through the schedule with Maryland at Birdland. Listen, Melissa and Billy at 54 below and Christine Petty at 54 below.
- [47:37]
Michael Portantier
So Melissa is the one who has. Melissa and Billy have two more shows tonight and tomorrow. So. Yeah, so they're still there. You can still catch them live if you'd like.
- [47:50]
James Marino
All right, so quickly in the news this week we had the Schubert's proposed improvements to the Imperial Theater. This is a very long process. It's not happening anytime in the near future. They make these proposals. And because of the landmark status of the Imperial Theater, it's got to go through lots of approvals and things like that. But, Michael, why don't you give us a summary of what we're may look for in the future at the Imperial.
- [48:32]
Michael Portantier
Yeah, well, preparatory to that for some time now. I don't remember the last time I mentioned it, but I've been railing against the. You know, we've discussed recently, as recently as last week, I think, some of the very good things that the Shubert organization has done. But, but I. But I do have to say that one of the absolute worst that they did it was 20 years ago or whenever it was, when they tore down that huge space right where we're discussing, and they eliminated at least two very, very popular and beloved restaurants on that block, Sam's and Barrymores. And the idea at the time was that very soon there was supposed to be begin construction of what I think was originally going to be a huge hotel which would also have a new Schubert Theater in it. You know, but to make a very long story short, that never happened. And, and, and then for a while that the lot remained absolutely completely empty A couple of years ago, they it seemed like they were starting to work on it again again, but now construction was supposed to start again in October and nothing has happened. So I do not know what the status of that, that huge space of land There is between 45th and 46th, but I am told, I think this is accurate information that, that the Schuberts have completely sold it and are no. And are no longer involved on any level. And, and some time ago that the plan to put a theater in to it, it was scrapped. So all, you know, I just, I think it's so awful that all of that those restaurants were obliterated. And, and, and you know, we've had nothing but an empty lot for, for 20 years when they could have, you know, they could have given those restaurants a year by year lease or something and they'd probably still be there. And it just seems so, so silly and so wasteful. So when the expansion and restoration of the Imperial Theater, at first I thought that that was related to what we're talking about here. But if I understand correctly, it is completely unrelated because the empty space in which the Imperial is going to be expanded to is not part of this much larger space that we've been talking, talking about here. It must be right next to it, but it's not actually part of it. So it's a separate issue in that sense. So I just wanted to make that clear because that's my understanding. But according to an article on what is going to happen with the Imperial, the proposed lobby expansion would include an Imperial Theater annex in the currently vacant lot located directly west of the theater. If you were there recently for water for elephant elephants, you'll know what that lot is. They were having people line up there, you know, for to get into the theater. I remember lining up there when I saw the show. The multi level annex would have a new physical and digital marquee as well as two floors of commercial space, an event space and a rooftop terrace. And so that is what they. We know about it.
- [52:21]
Peter Felicia
So so far, you know, I also want to say you're bringing up the thing about Baramore's and Sam's being obliterated for no good reason. Triton Gallery there It was on 45th street across from the Martinbeck Al Hirschfeld Theater and they were forced to leave and that space has never been rented in what must be 20 years, maybe more so. And it used to be such fun to go to Triton Gallery. It still exists on a floor of an office building building on 8th Avenue. But the, the visibility that we used to have. It was always so exciting to walk by there and see what what was new, what they had, but terrific. And if something else moved in there, you wouldn't feel nearly as bad. But the fact that it's still been empty, that nobody has rented it whatsoever, makes it a real tragedy.
- [53:16]
Michael Portantier
Agreed. 100%.
- [53:20]
James Marino
All right, so as we say in the biz, to be continued, we'll see what happens here. But I think that any of the imperial expansion plans by the Schuberts are multi year type of things. And if Smash is a smash.
- [53:39]
Peter Felicia
Yeah, I thought about that too.
- [53:41]
James Marino
If Smash is a Smash, then this could be very far off. So we'll see what happens. All right, so that wraps it up this week before we get on to our musical moments in our brain teaser. I'll remind everybody that you can subscribe to these broadcasts by going to the front page of broadway radio.com this is subscribe link that way each and every time we have a new episode of this Week on Broadway be automatically downloaded to Apple Podcast for you. Of course you don't have to listen to us on Apple Podcast as many ways to get us Patreon P A t r e o-n.com Broadwayradio is one way that you can get us early and support all the Broadway radio shows shows. Jan Simpson released a new episode of Stagecraft this week that came out on Patreon early and later in the week to the general public. She talked with Michael Griffo about pen pals currently playing off Broadway. So contact information for Peter for Michael and me can be found in the show notes@broadwayradio.com as well as links to some things we've talked talked about today. So Peter, do you have an answer to last week's brain teaser?
- [54:48]
Peter Felicia
This performer replaced in a long running Disney musical, but if he were to appear in a revival of a Mel Brooks musical, he'd hear his name mentioned in a lyric at every performance. I'm talking about Gary Cooper. No, not the two time Oscar winner, but a current Broadway performer who's been in Disney's Aladdin. And the Gary Cooper who did win Academy Awards for Sergeant Yorkenheim. Noon is mentioned in putting on the Ritz in Mel Brooks Young Frankenstein. Sean Logan was the first to get it, followed by Juliet Green, Tony Janicki, Ingrid Yammerman, David Trumbull, Greta Bramowitz and Brigad. All right, this week's question for their most controversial musical of the 30s, Rogers and Hart wrote a song whose title could have been the name of a song in a musical that Oscar Hammersley Stein wrote, but not one that he wrote with Rogers. Understand that neither the melody nor the lyrics would work in the context of this Hammerstein show, but the title could have applied to this song that has been recorded by many, many singers, including two who both appeared in a Cole Porter film musical. What's the name of the song? What's the Hammerstein musical in which the title would fit? And who are the two singers who recorded it who later appeared in what Cole Porter film musical?
- [56:13]
James Marino
Thank goodness you made this easier. The first question was really, really hard. If you have an answer for this, email us@triviabroadreyradio.com we'll let you know if you're on the right track. So, Michael, what do we have in this week's music?
- [56:34]
Michael Portantier
Well, I feel like everyone is talking about Gypsy, because first of all, the show opened and then there were the reviews, and now there's this highly unfortunate situation where the show has been canceled for almost a week because of reportedly multiple illnesses in the cast. So best wishes to them. I think the latest I read was that they were supposed to begin again today.
- [56:58]
James Marino
Yeah, that's. Yeah, I heard from the press reps.
- [57:02]
Michael Portantier
So we will, you know, see after this podcast airs, we'll see if that. That wound up happening. I did not have. I have my press tickets, but not until January 10th, so I'm not going to see it till then. But that doesn't stop me from thinking about it and looking forward to it and anticipating it. And so I thought for our musical moments, we would go back to the source and feature two selections from the brilliant original Broadway cast recording of Gypsy. The opener is the beginning of the overture, which I would say is arguably the best recording of the overture. Others would say it's inarguably the best recording of the overture because it is the best. And there's no argument but. But either way, it's fantastic. And then the closer is the final section of Ethel Merman's thrilling performance of Rose's Turn.
- [58:07]
James Marino
All right, so on behalf of Michael Portantier and Peter Felicia, this is James Marino saying thanks so much for listening to Broadway radios this week on Broadway. Bye bye.
- [58:18]
Unknown
Thanks a lot. Out with the garbage. They take vows. And you're back. 0 I had a dream. I dreamed it for you, June. It wasn't for me, Herbie. And if it wasn't for me, then where would you be, Miss Gypsy Rose? Leave. Well, someone tell me when is it my turn? Don't I get a dream for myself Starting now? It's gonna be my turn Gangway, world Get off of my Runway Startin now I bat a thousand this time boys I'm takin the vows and everything's coming up brown Everything's coming up roses Everything's coming up roses this time for me, for me, for me, for me for me, for me, for me.