This Week on Broadway for July 20, 2025: Doug Besterman

Summary

BroadwayRadio Episode Summary: "This Week on Broadway for July 20, 2025: Doug Besterman"

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Introduction

In this episode of BroadwayRadio's "This Week on Broadway," host James Marino sits down with the illustrious Doug Besterman, a three-time Tony Award-winning orchestrator, arranger, and composer. The conversation delves deep into Doug's extensive career in musical theater, his creative processes, personal anecdotes, and his latest venture, the Arrival Arts Initiative.

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Early Life and Musical Beginnings

Doug Besterman opens up about his origins and the early influences that paved his way into the world of musical theater.

• Hometown and Education:

  • [03:22] "I was born in Queens, but when I was three, my parents moved upstate. I grew up in Rockland County in a little town called Muncie, New York."

• Musical Training:

  • [04:58] "My first instrument was piano. I was around 5 years old. We had a grand piano in our house that had been in my grandmother's apartment."
  • Discusses his rigorous piano lessons with teachers Lyudmila Berkvik and John Lampkin, emphasizing their role in nurturing his arranging skills.

• Influential Relationships:

  • Mentions childhood connections with notable figures like Jason Robert Brown and Ann Nathan, highlighting the early exposure to Broadway talent.

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Career Highlights

Doug provides an expansive overview of his Broadway journey, sharing insights from both his struggles and triumphs.

• Early Broadway Projects:

  • Damn Yankees:

    • [10:58] "Damn Yankees was my first Broadway project. It was an incredible experience, especially working alongside James Raitt, who was a significant mentor for me."
    • Describes the process of orchestrating the show at the Old Globe Theater in San Diego before its Broadway run.

  • Big:

    • [38:05] "Big was my first original Broadway show. Working with David Shire was an overwhelming yet joyful experience, despite the challenges faced during its Detroit run."

• Notable Productions:

  • Thoroughly Modern Millie, Young Frankenstein, Sister Act, Elf, Bullets Over Broadway, Death Becomes Her:

    • Doug discusses the diversity of these shows, the unique orchestration challenges each presented, and the critical acclaim received, including multiple Tony nominations.

  • Boop and Smash:

    • [14:36] "This season, I've orchestrated three new musicals—Boop, Smash, and Death Becomes Her—all original works. It’s a milestone for me, orchestrating multiple new shows in a single season."

• Challenges and Learning Experiences:

  • On a Clear Day:

    • [25:09] Reflects on the musical’s complex production, praising the musical arrangements despite the show's overall struggles on Broadway.

  • Rocky:

    • [48:48] Shares his passion for the score and the technical challenges faced while adapting the film's music for the stage.
    • [53:13] "Rocky is one of the most technically complicated productions I've been involved with. The visual and auditory elements were genius, though it didn't quite connect with the public as we hoped."

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Creative Process and Insights

Doug delves into the intricacies of orchestrating and arranging, distinguishing between the two roles and sharing his methodology.

• Arranging vs. Orchestrating:

  • [07:02] "Arrangers modify chords, write transitions, and add counter lines, while orchestrators translate piano parts into orchestral arrangements without alterations."

  • [08:43] "In practice, especially on Broadway, orchestrators often contribute to the arrangement, blurring the technical distinctions between the two roles."

• Orchestration Techniques:

  • Discusses how he adapts scores to fit different venues and budgets, citing examples from Boop and Smash where existing orchestrations were modified for smaller theaters or different orchestral setups.

• Dealing with Pressure:

  • [42:20] "You get used to the pressure and deadlines over time. It's about calibrating expectations and turning orchestrating into muscle memory."

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Personal Life

Doug offers a glimpse into his life outside Broadway, highlighting his family and personal interests.

• Family:

  • [27:16] "I have three children. Max is 31, Carly is 28, and Lucas is 18. They're all pursuing their passions, from family therapy to music and physics."

• Legacy and Future Projects:

  • [58:32] Discusses his Arrival Arts Initiative, aimed at supporting the development of musical scores and fostering collaboration among emerging composers and arrangers.
  • Mentions his certification as a sommelier, blending his love for wine with his professional network.

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The Arrival Arts Initiative

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around Doug's latest endeavor:

• Purpose and Vision:

  • [55:41] "Arrival Arts aims to provide a space for developing musical scores, supporting music teams with funding, mentorship, and collaborative opportunities."

• Components:

  • Organization:

    • Provides support services like orchestrating, supervising, and mentoring for musicals ready to be "clothed" but needing further development.

  • Studio Origin:

    • A physical workspace in SoHo designed for composers and arrangers to work in a retreat-like setting, with plans for expansion into a residential facility.

• Goals:

  • [58:26] "I'm at a stage in my career where I'm thinking about legacy—what can I do to support the next generation and solve existing problems in musical development."

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Reflections on Broadway Productions

Doug shares candid reflections on various Broadway shows he's been part of, offering both praise and constructive criticism.

• Sister Act:

  • [46:56] "Sister Act had several iterations, each bringing something new to the table. The score is one of Alan's best, though it was underappreciated on Broadway."

• Tarzan:

  • Discusses the adaptation challenges from film to stage, particularly in maintaining the authenticity of the original score with limited stage resources.

• Seussical and On a Clear Day:

  • Reflects on shows that, despite initial struggles, found success post-Broadway or held a special place in his heart for their musical arrangements.

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Quotes and Notable Moments

Throughout the conversation, Doug Besterman shares memorable quotes that encapsulate his experiences and philosophies:

• [08:52] "Orchestrators on Broadway do very much contribute to the arrangement."

• [25:09] "The music was very transporting."

• [36:21] "Having three original shows in a single season is a milestone I'm proud of."

• [42:20] "You get used to the pressure and deadlines over time."

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Conclusion

James Marino wraps up the interview by highlighting Doug Besterman's contributions to Broadway and expressing excitement for his future projects. The episode not only celebrates Doug's achievements but also provides invaluable insights into the world of musical orchestrations and arrangements. Listeners gain a deeper appreciation for the behind-the-scenes artistry that shapes some of Broadway's most beloved productions.

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Additional Highlights

• Personal Anecdotes:

  • Doug shares amusing stories about managing Broadway ticket requests and his interactions with family regarding his work.

• Integration of Technology:

  • Discusses the use of technology in modern orchestrations, especially in shows like Tarzan, adapting film scores for stage performances.

• Upcoming Events:

  • Mentions the upcoming concert version of Little Dancer in London, emphasizing the ongoing nature of his involvement in evolving productions.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• [03:30] Doug Besterman: "I definitely had the bug from an early age."

• [07:02] Doug Besterman: "Arrangers modify chords, write transitions, and add counter lines, while orchestrators translate piano parts into orchestral arrangements without alterations."

• [14:36] Doug Besterman: "This season, I've orchestrated three new musicals—Boop, Smash, and Death Becomes Her—all original works."

• [25:09] Doug Besterman: "There are some basic questions that an orchestrator needs to ask. When does this show take place? Is it period specific, musically?"

• [42:20] Doug Besterman: "You get used to the pressure and deadlines over time."

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This episode offers a comprehensive look into the life and work of Doug Besterman, making it a must-listen for enthusiasts and professionals in the Broadway community.

Transcript

[Doug Besterman]

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[James Marino]

Okay, fellas, key of G. Wait, you're.

[Doug Besterman]

Saying who is she?

[James Marino]

Hey, they knew your town.

[Jenna Tessa Fox]

As you know, I'm not from here.

[James Marino]

Local legend like some here yeah but.

[Doug Besterman]

Now that I've come where I want to be I love that music you're playing Got me stopping and swaying yo can go but I'm staying It's where I want to be Let me hear some Louis Armstrong licks Basic boogie in the mix Back at Get Away for Kicks.

[James Marino]

And leave some room for me I.

[Doug Besterman]

Said leave some room for me.

[James Marino]

Hello and welcome to Broadway Radios this week on Broadway for Sunday, July 20, 2025. My name is James Marino and in the broadcast today we have Jenna, Tessa Fox and Michael Portantiere. Jenna has written about theater for many publications including Playbill, Broadway World Timeout and Howl Round. She's a member of the League of Professional Theater Women and the Drama Desk and is a contributor to Broadway Radio. Hello, Jenna.

[Michael Portantiere]

Hello, James. How are you doing?

[James Marino]

Doing well. Thank you for joining us. Also with us is Michael Portantier. Michael's a theater reviewer and essayist. He's the founder and editor of castalbumreviews. He is also a theatrical photographer whose photos have appeared in the New York Times and other major publications. You could see his photography [e-mail] hello Michael.

[Jenna Tessa Fox]

Hello.

[James Marino]

Hello. So Peter is traveling this week. He will be back next week. But we do have his brain teaser at the end of the show. We recorded it on Thursday evening, so stay tuned for that. With us this morning we have a very special guest. Doug Besterman is with us. Doug is a three time Tony award winning orchestrator, arranger and composer who has helped shape the sound of modern musical theater. With six Tony nominations and multiple Drama desk honors. His orchestrations have brought to life some of Broadway's most celebrated productions. His credits include the Producers, Thoroughly Modern Millie Fosse, Young Frankenstein's Sister act and Elf Bullets Over Broadway. How to succeed in Business without really Trying. That was the Daniel Radcliffe revival, I think A Bronx Tale. It should have been you. Smash. Boop. And the current hit Death Becomes her Doug, thanks for getting up on a Sunday morning and chatting with us.

[Doug Besterman]

I'm pleased to be here. Thank you for the invitation.

[James Marino]

So, grew up where? Born where? Tell us, what was your childhood?

[Doug Besterman]

I was born in Queens.

[James Marino]

Oh, okay.

[Doug Besterman]

Yep, yep. But when I was three, my parents moved upstate. So I really grew up in Rockland county in a little town called Muncie, New York, which, oh, I know Muncie, right on the border of Suffern and Spring Valley, and went to Ramapo High School. And. And there are some fairly illustrious musical theater alumni of Ramapo High School, one being Jason Robert Brown. Jason's a little younger than me, but he and my brother were around the same age and we knew each other as kids. And then Ann Nathan, who's a wonderful performer here in New York, was in the original Broadway company of Once and Thoroughly Modern Millie and many others. And that's where I grew up. My father was an attorney, but as a kid he was an entertainer. He was on a television show called the Children's Hour, which was broadcast live every Sunday from New York. So while he wasn't an entertainer when I knew him, he was, you know, that was always kind of in the air. We always heard stories about my dad being on the radio and tv. And I think my parents love of musical theater combined with that sort of feeling like somehow we were a show business related family may have contributed to my chosen profession in one way or another. But I definitely had the bug from an early age.

[James Marino]

Wow, okay. And what was your first instrument?

[Doug Besterman]

My first instrument was piano. And I was probably around 5 years old. And we had a grand piano in our house that had been in my grandmother's apartment. And I begged for lessons. I really wanted to play the piano and they took me. The piano tuner's wife was a renowned teacher in Rockland County. Her name was Lyudmila Berkvik. And anyone who played piano in the 60s or 70s in Rockland county knows who that is. And so my parents took me to meet her and she said my hands were a little too small. I had to wait a year, so I had to wait till I was six. But then I started and I played. I studied with her until I was 15. And then I switched to another great teacher in County, a guy named John Lampkin, who now lives in Florida. And Jason Robert Brown also studied with John, and he was a fantastic teacher, just one of those really special individuals who. And he was the first person to encourage me to pursue an independent study in arranging. So I was very fortunate with both of my teachers, actually.

[James Marino]

Where did you do the independent study with him?

[Doug Besterman]

I came in to my piano lessons, and he was a jazz teacher primarily. And I said, I'm really interested in learning about arranging. Is that something you can teach me? And he said, well, I don't know much about it, but let me do some research. And the next week I came to my lesson and he had two books, which I still have, and he said, I've heard that these books are really good. Let's study them together. And that's what we did.

[Jenna Tessa Fox]

Interesting. The words arranging and orchestrating are not exactly the same, but would I guess that your arrangement study covered orchestrations as well?

[Doug Besterman]

Yeah, I think probably the era that those books were written in was probably the 50s and 60s. So at that point there was this. This job description called a commercial arranger and that kind of covered orchestration, too. But the idea being that, say, someone would be doing an album and they'd want to do Stormy Weather on their album. And so you'd call an arranger to make a bespoke version of Stormy Weather for your album, and your key, however you wanted to perform the song. And so that's what the arranger did, was they devised a kind of new way of thinking about that song for a particular case, and that included orchestration in that era. Now, certainly in musical theater, we've kind of divided those jobs somewhat, although orchestrators still do arrange, and we can get into that if you'd like to. But, yes, they have slightly different meanings, the gist of which is an arranger will change chords, modify an intro, modify an ending, write transitions, add counter lines, whereas an orchestrator, by definition, will simply translate, essentially, a piano part into whatever the orchestra is going to play without any additions or subtractions. They won't modify the arrangement in any way.

[Jenna Tessa Fox]

Thank you for that clarification, because I know many people don't quite get it.

[Doug Besterman]

Yeah, and those are just. Those are just technical definitions. In practice, orchestrators on Broadway do very much contribute to the arrangement.

[Jenna Tessa Fox]

Right.

[James Marino]

Right.

[Jenna Tessa Fox]

Now you can. I'm sorry, go on, Jenna.

[Michael Portantiere]

Can you share an example about when you've been assigned, you know, one of those projects and wound up getting involved.

[Doug Besterman]

In the other in terms of the arranging?

[Michael Portantiere]

Sure. Yeah.

[Doug Besterman]

Yeah. Well, I wouldn't be able to give you a specific instance, although maybe if I think for a second I could come up with something. But generally speaking. Well, I've been very fortunate, and then I've gotten to work with some really, really fine arrangers. So let's take the producers, for example. So that was Glen Kelly. And what Glenn did is he sat with Mel Brooks and he came up with devised appeal piano part for Mel's songs, which Mel doesn't play the piano. And so Glenn had to kind of listen to what Mel was singing and interpret. Oh, perhaps he would like this kind of accompaniment and these chords and that sort of thing. And I'm sure along the way Glenn may have added some touches that were not originally in Mel's imagination, but in the end they arrived at something that they both really liked. And those were fairly comparable complete arrangements. And that there would be little fills between vocal phrases. There'd be a fully thought out intro, a fully thought out ending, meaning I could look at the piano part and play something that sounded like the song. But then maybe here and there, there would be places where I wanted to add a floating string counter line. Or Mel would say to me, oh, I want that those skittering violins, you know what I'm talking about, where the violins are playing those really fast notes. Give me something like that. So then I would have to devise what those notes were for the violins to play to create that effect that he was looking for. So that's very common on every project that I do that I will either I will complete something to someone's specifications or I will just simply to my taste, add whatever I think is necessary for that particular moment.

[James Marino]

So.

[Doug Besterman]

Wow.

[James Marino]

I'm looking through your IBDB and listed here chronologically, Damn Yankees looks like your earliest Broadway project. Was it your earliest Broadway project?

[Doug Besterman]

It was my first, yes.

[James Marino]

And how did you get Damn Yankees when you were calculating here, seven years old?

[Doug Besterman]

Oh, I was just about to turn eight. I was. Let's see, so in 94, I was 29, but I actually, yeah, I. We first worked on it in 1993, in the. In the fall of 93 at the old Globe Theater in San Diego. And so that's an interesting story. So that actually came out of my friendship and working relationship with a gentleman named James Raitt. And that's. That's a name you, you may be familiar with. And James tragically passed away from. He succumbed to AIDS in 1994, right around the time that Damn Yankees opened on Broadway. But he was, he was a huge figure for me in terms of mentorship and really he was a champion of me, of my work for several years prior to when we worked on Damn Yankees. And I met him probably through my studio partner at the time. I had a little recording studio business with an arranger, orchestrator named Martin Erskine, who now lives out in Palm Springs. But Martin may have introduced me to James, but I got involved with Forever Plaid. I think I may have done so. The history is a little blurry. This was a long time ago, but I may have done some projects with James. I think we did. I think he was the dance arranger on Arthur the Musical at Goodspeed, Which. That was 1989, 1990, somewhere around there. And I was the assistant music director. Anyway, I knew James. I got involved with. I was a pianist on Forever Plaid in New York for about six, eight months. I subbed a tour of Jesus Christ Superstar that he was the conductor of. That was a tour that director, choreographer Tony Stevens directed. It was a really wonderful production. Anyway, James and I knew each other, and when Damn Yankees was about to happen, he said, I think you should orchestrate this. And in retrospect, I think it was a gift he was giving me, knowing that, you know, possibly his days were numbered. And as it turned out, my attorney was the attorney for the Old Globe and was very, very close friends with the producer. So somehow they convinced this producer that this unknown with 0 credits should be the orchestrator. Now, I had some Off Broadway and regional credits at that point, but nothing on Broadway. And so the deal was that I would orchestrate the show at the Old Globe, and if they liked it, I would proceed with the show to Broadway. And if they didn't, we'd go our separate ways. And luckily it worked out. They liked what I did at the Old Globe, and so they brought me to New York, and that's how that happened.

[Jenna Tessa Fox]

That's great. You've got some publicity this season as orchestrating three shows in one season and all three new musicals, by the way. So it's not even as if they were revivals and you had something to work from.

[James Marino]

Yes.

[Jenna Tessa Fox]

Has it been determined that that is a record?

[Doug Besterman]

I don't know. I never investigated. Certainly is up there. I mean, who knows? But maybe one of your listeners will have the answer to that.

[Jenna Tessa Fox]

I'm sure they will.

[Doug Besterman]

It certainly is the first season that I've had three projects. I've had two before, but never three in the same season. Although, to be fair, Death Becomes her was in the fall of 2024, and then smash and Boop were in the spring of 2025. So they weren't all exactly at the same time. And I have had two at the same time before. Smash and Boop were at exactly the same time. They started previews on the same day.

[James Marino]

And also IBDB has you listed as Elf as well in the same season. But maybe you didn't reorchestrate Elf. You just. They used the existing orchestrations.

[Doug Besterman]

I didn't do any new work on that.

[James Marino]

Okay, but you had four shows running.

[Doug Besterman]

Yes. It's actually not the first time I've had four shows running. That happened, I think back in around 2000, where I had producers Fosse, Music man and Seussical all at the same time. For a brief minute, they were all four running at the same time.

[James Marino]

Wow. What were you going to say, Michael? Jenna. Jenna, go ahead.

[Michael Portantiere]

Sure. I'll cut in. Can you talk a bit about how you figure out what a show needs and what kind of sound it has while working within a budget and working within a limited time frame? If you've got especially two shows quite literally starting on the same day.

[Doug Besterman]

Yes.

[Michael Portantiere]

How do you make that happen?

[Doug Besterman]

Yes. Well, the good news about both of those shows is that we had done versions of them prior to their New York run. So for Boop, I had really done the bulk of the work in 2024, I guess, when we did the show in Chicago. So that was. Or 23, whatever year it was. But we did a full production there with the full orchestrations. And in fact, for New York, I had to reduce the orchestrations slightly because we were in a smaller theater and they needed a slightly smaller version of the orchestration. So that was really the work of the New York room was kind of figuring that out. And boop. Sorry. Smash. I had worked on the TV show, so we had those arrangements. Then we did a big concert in 2015 and we had sort of revised and conformed those orchestrations to a single orchestra because the TV show had a lot of different sized orchestras depending on the needs of whatever we were recording that week. So we sort of conformed the. So we have existing work. Obviously there were things that had to be done, but we did a big workshop about a year before we came to Broadway on Smash. So I was able to figure out a lot of things. Then to go back to Jenna's question about how I decide what a score needs, there are some basic questions that an orchestrator needs to ask. When does this show take place? Is it period specific, musically? In other words, Thoroughly Modern Millie is a great example. It needed to sound like the 1920s. Damn Yankees needed to end. Producers needed to sound like sort of golden age of musicals. 1950s, 1960s, that sort of thing. So I think about the era, the style, then I think about the tone of the piece. Is it a comedy? Is it light hearted? What And I think about kind of the arc of the piece and some of this I just do sort of instinctively. But these are the kind of questions I'll ask. Where's the high point of the show that I need to make sure I have an extra something for that moment, that sort of thing. And I'll do that on a per song basis too. I'll think about what's the high point of this song and how do I build towards that.

[Jenna Tessa Fox]

Well, on that note, I have a specific question about Boop. And I'm not sure if you can speak to this, but I really loved the score and the orchestrations, but I commented here that I just thought it was somewhat odd that the action is set. Well, most of the action is set in present day New York. And yet the. The score and the orchestrations are very jazzy and swingy. And then, and I, and I speculated, I said, I wondered if they had ever considered having Boop. Betty Boop transformed. Trans. Trans. Translated, whatever. Not, not from her cartoon world to modern day New York, but New York in the 30s. And sure enough, one of our listene quite some time ago, he saw David Foster speak somewhere. And at the time he said he was working on a musical about Betty Boop that was set in her cartoon world and in New York in the 1930s.

[Doug Besterman]

Yes, so.

[Jenna Tessa Fox]

So maybe you can. I don't know if you can speak to that, but it really interests me.

[Doug Besterman]

It's a great question. And you know, some of these topics are above my pay grade, as I like to say. So, you know, because obviously I'm not an author and Boop had a particularly long gestation. I mean, I think it was close to 15 years with various teams. And I don't know when they made the decision to set the show in modern day, but I imagine. And maybe if he's listening, he can respond. But I imagine that might have had to do with Bob Martin, that he might have had that thought and, and pitched it. But in any case, it's a great question and it's one that I asked at a certain point, do you want the modern day songs to reflect any sort of contemporary sound? And we played with it a little. It wasn't super obvious, but some of the songs had little grooves underneath them that were more contemporary. And of course there's the whole, there was the whole Comic Con moment which was extremely contemporary just in terms of the sounds that we used. And that was a track that I made. But you know, ultimately an orchestrator works to assignment and at a certain point the authors get to make decisions about how they want the score to sound. And they really stood by the score the way it was. You know, there's always. Even though big band music has fallen out of fashion as pop music, it's not pop music anymore. You know, there are still people that love Michael Buble. And, you know, every holiday season, the swing music starts to play. You know, it is part of our culture, even though it's not considered contemporary music anymore. So I think they felt that that would be enough and that was what David Foster wanted to write. That's what they all felt the score needed. So again, without commenting positively or negatively on it. And I love the score too. I think David's an incredible composer. You know, that was their call. Yeah.

[Jenna Tessa Fox]

Thank you.

[James Marino]

So, Doug, as I go through your 30 some odd Broadway credits here, I wanted to ask you, you know, there are a few people who are going to know these 30 people. Excuse me. There are a few people who are going to know these 30 shows more than you. What was something that maybe was overlooked that the general public should take a look at again, that you were working with and you were like, oh, this is such a gem. And it didn't get its due.

[Doug Besterman]

Oh, goodness, that's a great question.

[Jenna Tessa Fox]

I'm going to think maybe not Dracula.

[Doug Besterman]

No disrespect to Dracula, although that show had a. Has had a really wonderful life outside of the United States. So kudos to them when they carried it forward. Although I enjoyed working on Dracula anyway, that's a whole other other story. You know, the ones that I loved the most tended to have a life even if they weren't well received on Broadway. So the one I'm going to mention, there'll be a lot of caveats, but like, for example, Seussical was one that I thought, oh, this is such a sweet show and it was such a beautiful score and somehow it just didn't come together in the production. But it's had an incredible life after Broadway. It's one of the most licensed shows in history. Every school has done it at some point and, and kids know it. They know the album really well. So that was one that, you know, sort of time kind of bore out the, you know, the, the quality of that material. But I'll tell you one that I was really proud of musically. Although the production itself was very fraught with all kinds of difficulties and, and maybe in some ways was very ill conceived, but that was the Michael Mayer production of On a Clear Day, which, which I just loved what we did Musically, and that was. Larry Yurman was the arranger and musical director. And. And it. It just. There was something about that score and the way that. That, that Larry transformed it. I was just really proud of it and I was sorry we didn't make an album because I think those arrangements, people would have really enjoyed another hearing of those, put it that way. So I guess that's one. I wouldn't say it's one for people to revisit because there's no way to really revisit it, but it is one that I wish had come together a little bit more. And. And that there was some sort of last. I mean, there are little clips on YouTube if you're curious. You can check them out, but I was proud of that one.

[Michael Portantiere]

That was a real talk a bit about what specifically you really liked about those. That project and that sound.

[Doug Besterman]

It was. It's a very strange story. I mean, anybody that knows on a clear day. And this version was even more complicated than the original in terms of Michael Mayer's big idea for it, which. Which was to sort of divide up the casting a little bit differently. I won't go into it, but it's has supernatural themes to it. It has a love story that transcends time and the. And they said it in that the historical character was now a 1930s, I think, jazz singer.

[Jenna Tessa Fox]

Right.

[Doug Besterman]

And so we got to explore that era of music. And then there was all this very sort of evocative, orchestral, almost cinematic underscore. I just thought it was, you know, it was. For me, that music was very transporting. And even though I think some of the story choices were maybe a head scratcher musically, I found it very satisfying. I'm not sure if that answers your question, Jenna, but that's how I remember it.

[Michael Portantiere]

Yeah, no, that's great.

[Jenna Tessa Fox]

It was a real breakout, A real breakout role for Jessie Mueller. So.

[Doug Besterman]

Well, that was really. Yeah, she. She was really the best thing to come out of that show was Jesse. And. And I remember asking her, I went to a workshop or a reading of it, and afterwards I went up to her and I said. I said, who are your jazz influences? I mean, you clearly have listened to jazz music. And she said, no, not really. I just kind of listened to Harry Connick, what he does, and I just sort of do that. And I went. Had had this kind of intuition about. About how to be that person and you know, just a wonderful actress. And I remember saying to her at the opening night party, like, this is the beginning of a huge career, Jesse. And sure enough is It. It was.

[James Marino]

So you're a parent? As I've read on your website, yes. Tell me, do you have one child? Two children.

[Doug Besterman]

Three kids.

[James Marino]

Three kids. And around what ages are they?

[Doug Besterman]

My oldest, Max, is 31. He lives in Los Angeles.

[James Marino]

Okay.

[Doug Besterman]

Yep. He's. He's studying, finishing up his studies for his master's in family therapy and is engaged to a wonderful woman who lives in Norway. So they're figuring that out. And my daughter Carly, who's 28, lives in Seattle and she's a singer songwriter. You can find her stuff on Spotify under the name House Phone. And she has several million streams and is an unsigned self managed singer songwriter and has gone back to school to study actually recording engineering because she was really interested in learning how to produce not only herself, but other people as well. And then my youngest, Lucas is 18, just graduated from high school, and he's heading to the University of Chicago in the fall to study physics, potentially astrophysics, but he's keeping his options open.

[Jenna Tessa Fox]

Wow.

[James Marino]

Wow. When they were younger, were they any little bit impressed by the things that you've done? I'm imagining the playground. Yeah. My dad wrote Let It Go. You know.

[Doug Besterman]

Not really. And maybe, maybe I did a good job of keeping that from them in some way or, you know, they also grew up in Los Angeles and my career was in New York. So I would leave and I'd go off for six weeks. They knew I was doing something to do with theater. And then I came home and then dad was home and we would, you know, do our regular stuff. They knew what I did and they would. I had a studio in the garage, basically a room in the garage, and they would come and say hi and. And you know, Carly loved musicals, and so she was in some musicals. And so when the. Actually when the woman who ran the musical theater program she was in found out that I was Carly's dad, she. She knew who I was and so she invited me to come speak to the kids. And I think I did an orchestration for them or something. Anyway, it. I think it was. It was always kind of in the background. But what's funny is that sometimes their friends who love musical theater will meet me and then suddenly it's like, oh, yeah, we know who your dad is. And it becomes. They'll have like a moment. But I think it. I think maybe, maybe not as much as you'd think. To answer your question.

[James Marino]

No, that's not even, you know, not even like your, your son saying, my dad wrote Captain America's Song. You know?

[Doug Besterman]

No.

[James Marino]

Well, you're part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

[Doug Besterman]

It's an interesting story about Frozen because we didn't know that that song. I mean, I knew the song was called Let It Go, but we didn't know it was going to be Let It Go. You know, we just was a song that I was asked to work on. In fact, I wasn't really involved with that film in any other way. This was at the moment they called me in. This song was a bit of a puzzle that needed to be solved. And they hadn't quite. They just hadn't gotten the approvals yet for the song that they were wanting. And they thought, well, let's have somebody else have a try. And it was the end result in terms of the arrangement and orchestration were kind of a group effort. They took a little from column A, a little from column B. And. And although, you know, I feel like my contributions to that arrangement are significant in that I kind of altered the groove a little bit. And anyway, long story short, when they gave me that song, I thought, oh, I would love there to be kind of something a little mysterious and electronic at the very beginning of the song. And that didn't end up in the final version. But my oldest son Max was doing that kind of music at the time, as a teenager, and I said, do you want to help me? And I think he felt slightly overwhelmed at the thought of doing it. And so that never actually really happened. And I'll sometimes tease him and say, you know, that song was Let It Go, you could have had a credit on. But, you know, he was just a kid. I mean, but. But yeah, and. And I played it for them in the car. I remember as I was working on it, sometimes listen to things in the car and they all said, oh, yeah, that's a good song. That sounds pretty good, you know, so we were all the first to hear that song. I think maybe that part of it is the part that they probably remember more than anything else. The.

[James Marino]

As I look through the list here, I'm guessing that the first time you experienced like cultural zeitgeist monster hit was the producers, is that correct?

[Doug Besterman]

Yes, very much so.

[James Marino]

And what was that like when were you just like, wow, you know, during the whole pre production process, it's always exciting. But then you hit an opening night where it was an incredible monster hit. And then the Tony Awards came around and it literally won everything. I think it won Best Play Revival as well. So tell me about that. That. That April 20, 2001, not 2021 April 2001. Tell me about, you know, what happened in that time frame for Doug Besterman.

[Doug Besterman]

Yeah.

[James Marino]

Were you married at that time or 2000?

[Doug Besterman]

No, I wasn't. I was. I was in between marriages, although my. I had my. My first two kids at that point. Okay. It. It was. So I was living in Los Angeles, and so I was commuting to New York, first to Chicago and then to New York. So just to put this all in perspective, the day after opening, the morning after opening night, the huge success and the reviews coming out, I got on a plane and went home. So I wasn't in New York when all of the craziness, the lines around the block and everything were happening. And I remember calling Glen Kelly from the airport and just sort of joking about it. Glen said, oh, I didn't even like the show as much as they, you know, he was kidding. But I mean. And that's Glenn's sense of humor. But, you know, we were. We. We knew the reviews were gonna great, but until you see it, you don't. You don't really understand what that means. And then, of course, there were the lines around the block. And what it meant for me was. And I say this in the most respectful way, everybody I had ever met came out of the woodwork to ask me for tickets.

[James Marino]

Yes.

[Doug Besterman]

And. And that was. That I had never experienced before. And I literally had to hire someone who I paid out of my own pocket to work 10 hours a week to manage my house seats for me. And in fact, there's a funny story where my mother had a friend who she worked with who just decided that I was her producer's seat connection and was using my guy to get tickets for all of her friends. And I finally had to tell my mom, you have to tell her to stop. You know, she's costing me money. Like, yeah, it's fine to get them for her. She's your friend, but now she can't be getting them for all of her friends. But a lot of, you know, friends from elementary school and that sort of thing. And my answer was always yes. I figured it was good ticket karma. You know, I'll be able to get tickets for anything I ever want for the rest of my life if I get hook everyone up with house suites. Of course you have to pay for houses. So I wasn't giving people free tickets. But. But it was that. That was the thing that really let me know that this was a massive hit. And it was the first time that my name was part of the advertising for the show. They. There was a quote about my orchestrations on one of the doors at the St. James Theater that was. That was very different because orchestrators, we. To kind of fade into the background. I mean, we don't. We're not by. We're not always mentioned in reviews negatively or positively. We're, you know, that's a whole other topic of conversation. But we're, you know, we. We're. We're a. We're a below the line job description. So we tend not to seek or. Or get much attention. And so this was unusual for me in that, you know, suddenly. Suddenly I was known to people. People that I grew up with knew that I had worked on the show and that sort of thing. Did it change my life career wise? Not particularly. I mean, the next big show I did after that was Thoroughly Modern Millie, and I won a Tony for that. And then I didn't work for a year, so. And that has nothing to do with anything other than just timing. You know, sometimes there's just nothing in the pipeline for you at that moment. So I used to joke that having multiple Tonys meant that I could divide my bills into categories and slot them in between the Tony ones.

[James Marino]

Let me ask you, you worked on the revival of Annie in 2012?

[Doug Besterman]

Yes, just a little bit. Yeah, I helped Michael a little bit.

[James Marino]

Yeah. That's what I was going to ask you. Did you reinvent anything there or was it just cleanup or what was it?

[Doug Besterman]

I think they gave me a number. I'm actually not remembering which number I did, but they gave me a number. I remember Alex Lacamore, I think, was the music supervisor and there was.

[Jenna Tessa Fox]

That's Slacky.

[James Marino]

Yeah, he's gone on to do nothing since Slacker.

[Doug Besterman]

But it was. That was. Yeah, I guess that was pre Hamilton, so. But, yeah, but, you know, obviously a huge, hugely talented guy. And so I remember having some back and forth with him about things that he wanted in the orchestration and that sort of thing. I mean, the real. The Annie that I feel most closely connected to is the 1999 Rob Marshall TV Annie. I worked extensively on that one. And that was not my first time working with Rob, actually. Damn Yankees was the first time I worked with Rob, but that was his first foray as director and choreographer and of course, followed. He followed that with Chicago, which I was the supervising orchestrator on. There were three of us who worked on that, as did the orchestrations for that. But I was. I was in the hot seat, put it that way. I was in the room when. When all the you know, when. When anything went down, I was the one who had to solve it. So.

[James Marino]

I have four shows for you I want to mention and just see if anything interesting pops into your head. An interesting story.

[Doug Besterman]

Big.

[James Marino]

Anything interesting about BIG?

[Doug Besterman]

Yeah, it was my first original Broadway show. Malpy and Shire. I loved working with David Shire. He's just. Just the most. The kindest and most humble composer you'd ever want to work with. Just. He just was absolutely lovely. And I was really young at that point and very overwhelmed on that show. I mean, Damn Yankees was my first Broadway show, but as you mentioned earlier in the interview, it was based on pre existing material. So I had a starting point, a frame of reference in my mind, even though I really changed a lot of those arrangements. But Big, we were starting from nothing, and I was really, really overwhelmed. And I remember calling Michael Staraban at that point, who had become a friend, and saying, how do you deal with the pressure and the deadlines and the overwhelming? And he just kind of chuckled and said, you know, good luck, kid. You know, that kind of thing. But you do eventually get used to that. But, you know, the. The thing about Big was we went into that process. It was such a joyful show. I mean, there was literally a song in that show called Fun, and. And it was fun. We. It just. The material was so fun and uplifting and funny. And my recollection of the rehearsal process is there wasn't much in the way of controversy. They were solving problems as they came up kind of in the normal way. But it was. When we got to Detroit in the winter. That'll tell you something right there. When we were doing the out of Town at the Fisher Theater, we started to feel that there were problems with the show that were bigger than what we saw in the rehearsal room. And I say we, but it was really Mike Ockren and Stroh and the authors, and they started to really tinker. And it was my first taste of making air quotes. A show in trouble, out of town, you know, and, you know, that sort of classic idea of we gotta fix it on the road, and then we rewrote another third of the score or something between Detroit and New York. It was really. It was a huge challenge, and that was not an easy one to start with, but in the end. Sorry, so go ahead.

[James Marino]

No, no, no, no. In the end, what were you gonna say?

[Doug Besterman]

I was gonna say in the end, you know, even though. Well, we were. What happened that year was Rent, and. And I remember David Shire. My recollection is he came, he, I met him and there was a location in the basement of the Fisher Theater. It was an old closed down clothing store where the copyists had set up. And that's where we would sometimes meet and talk about things. And he had a copy of the New York Times review of Rent or something like that. And he said, we're in trouble. Like this is. There's no way we're going to, I mean, having to deal with this show that Rent, which was, he felt was going to become a juggernaut, but that was potentially going to overshadow us. And in a way it did. We became the kind of corporate, you know, corporate sponsored musical. And Rent was the sort of underground upstart and had obviously that horribly tragic story about Jonathan Larson. But in the end, even though the show wasn't well received on Broadway, that's another cast album that people really love and talk about. And I remember someone saying something to me about quintessential orchestrations of the 90s. And I look back on them and I think it's just like my juvenile efforts at orchestrating a show. But, you know, we, we do our best with what we have at the moment. So I'm not going to say that there's nothing in there of any value, but, but I. But it is a score that, that people know and, and appreciate it, you know, Years later.

[James Marino]

Tarzan. Oh, sorry. What were you gonna say, Jenna?

[Michael Portantiere]

I wanted to circle back to a question you asked Doug, and I wanted to flip it around and ask it of you. How do you deal with the pressure and the deadlines and the overwhelming workload?

[Doug Besterman]

That's a good one. All I can say is you get used to it over time. That's it. Just. I calibrated my expectations. I now know when I say yes to a show that I'm inviting, I'll put it poetically, I'm inviting six weeks or a month of misery and pain. Although it's not misery and pain, but it's just crushing deadlines. We have four to six weeks to orchestrate a show, generally speaking as an orchestrator, and you can bring in help if you get behind, but it doesn't leave you a lot of time to think about things. You just write and go write and go finish, go on to the next and just over time, that just becomes normalized, I guess. So I needed to do a few more shows after Big until it sort of became part of like muscle memory, I guess. I had to put in my 10,000 hours or something like that. But that's how you deal with it, you just get used to it. It doesn't get any better. But my anxiety about it has gone down over the years.

[James Marino]

How about Tarzan? It's a very different type of producer when you go from anybody to Disney.

[Doug Besterman]

Yes. Yeah. Orson. Well, I had worked for Disney several times before. Not Disney. Well, yes, I had done King David, so that was Disney Theatrical. But I had done Mulan, so I had done the film and some other film projects. I've been involved with Disney since 1995 in one way or another. And I love working for Disney. A lot of films and TV and that sort of thing. But so one thing about Disney is the show is very well supported. They have the finances, and they really do things right from the perspective of being involved in a production. If you need something, generally speaking, you're gonna get it from Disney. They will put money towards. If you need keyboard equipment or something special in rehearsal or that sort of thing, they don't skimp. So that was a very positive thing. Tarzan was interesting because Bill Collins was. He didn't have any experience with musicals. And I've been in this situation several times in my career, most recently with David Foster, where you have somebody who's just a huge name outside of theater who suddenly becomes involved in musical theater and they're a little bit like a fish out of water and so on. Boop. I ended up being one of David's resources in terms of trying to understand how things happen in theater and what the process is. I wasn't that for Phil Collins. He had other people that were helping him. But I was a huge Phil Collins fan. And so that was really, really fun. And I think it was challenging because the score was going from a film version of the score to a stage version with a limited orchestra pit. Whereas on a film you have almost unlimited resources. And so we had to use a lot of technology to kind of try to get the stage version to at least come up a little and get closer to the expectations of people who knew the film version of the score. And this was 2006, maybe. So we. The technology wasn't quite what it is now. So we had to use whatever was available to us at the time. And anyway, there were complications on that show. And I always felt like I was missing key pieces of information you could sort of say, or it just. Communication was complicated. We eventually got there and Tarzan became also a huge hit outside of the United States. At one point, I was told that a quarter of the population of Holland saw Tarzan. They had a. They Had a. Like a TV special help choose the next Tarzan, like a reality TV show. And it became such a huge hit over there that it was just incredibly well attended. And then it was a huge hit. It's running right now, I think in. In Germany. So it did very, very well overseas. So there you go.

[James Marino]

And then Sister Act. How about Sister Act?

[Doug Besterman]

Sister Act, Yeah, Sister Act. Interestingly, it was the same producer, stage, entertainment, and they were a complicated company. Although I will say this with all our complications, the people involved on the production end had huge hearts. They loved musical theater and in that sense it was really a pleasure working for them. Sister act had several iterations. We had a Pasadena Playhouse version which we then did at the alliance in Atlanta and then then. So that was like a co production. Then we had a London version which was quite different. And then we had a New York version which was very different. A lot of rewrites for New York, they. They rewrite a lot of. Rewrote a lot of the book. And. And so there were. It was three versions of the show. So there was a lot of work to do. But I felt like that score was really under received. I think it's a really, really good score. One of Alan's best scores. And again, it has done very well post Broadway. There have been productions running almost continuously since Broadway, since it closed on Broadway and it received no love at the Tony Awards. But I'm very proud of my work and it's a cast album I really love. Also. I think it's a really, really strong cast album that we made in London, not We didn't make one in New York with Patina Miller. It was. It's a really strong album too. So it was a complicated one.

[James Marino]

The last of the four I have on my list that I wanted to ask you about is Rocky, which was. I'm disappointed that not a lot of people got to see Rocky. So tell me about your experience in Rocky.

[Doug Besterman]

Oh, how much to tell. I love Lynn and Steve and when I saw they did a reading at some point in New York and it was how I felt about Seussical when I saw that show, I thought this is a show about little people and their little problems. And they do that so wonderfully. I mean, Lynn's lyrics, they just get right to the heart of these people. The two of them really understand the humanity of the characters that they're writing for as well as, or better than almost anyone. I mean, I just can't say enough about Lynn and Steve. I'm working with them right now on, we're finally doing Little Dancer again. They're doing a big concert in London at the end of this month. And I just. I loved the score and it was very close to Steve's heart, that style of music, you know, we're around the same age, so we were kids in the 70s, and that music was very much set in that era and he knew all of the references, and we would talk about the sound of Philadelphia and, you know, just. It was just so much fun. And then I had this incredible band in Hamburg where we first did the show, and. And it was in German. And I really developed a lot of the orchestrations on the band, which I don't usually do, but I. I really wanted their input. I had three guitarists, and while I wrote very specific parts for them, I wanted their. I wanted some of it to feel like a band playing together. And we spent a lot of time. We made an album over there before we did the show. And somehow those orchestrations, which Steve and I really worked on together a lot, with all of our best intentions, it somehow didn't jibe in Alex Timber's mind with the production that he was doing. It just didn't. They didn't make sense to him. And in the end, they ended up having someone else kind of take over in New York. They used a lot of my stuff, but they had Stephen Trask, who's not known as an orchestrator but as a terrific rock composer. And Alex felt that it needed somebody to somehow give it rock authenticity. But in the. And Alex and I might disagree about this, I just felt that Lynn and Steve hadn't written that score, and you couldn't make that score sound other than it wanted to be in terms of the DNA of the writing. Anyway, long story short, I loved that score and I really like what we did in Germany. And then, interestingly, we did it in Germany again after it closed on Broadway, and they brought me back to supervise that production and there were some song substitutions made. And so that one is a little bit of a heartbreaker for me. But I think there are songs in that show that are among the best that Lynn and Steve wrote. And I will say it's one of the most astonishing physical productions I've ever been involved with. You really felt, by the time you got to the end of Act 2, you felt that you were present in the arena where that fight took place. And it was all the visual cues. It was a genius production. And so I. And I really admired Alex for that. It was an absolutely genius production. And didn't receive the love that I think it should have just simply for that. I mean, just what they did in that theater and on that stage was incredible. And we had high hopes for it. And it didn't, you know, it didn't quite connect with the public. And I don't know that it can be done anywhere. I'm not sure if it's being done anywhere. It requires such technical. It's a highly complicated, technical show to do. I'd be very curious to see someone try to do a smaller, more intimate version of it. It could be interesting, actually.

[James Marino]

Yeah, it's interesting because so many people thought that Miss Saigon was going to be impossible for smaller theaters to do, you know, because everybody's going to come looking for the helicopter.

[Doug Besterman]

Right.

[James Marino]

And you can do it without the helicopter. Can you do Rocky without the entire, you know, boxing ring being lifted into the middle of the orchestra? Probably, Yeah, I would think so.

[Doug Besterman]

I would think so. And I would think that there are ways to achieve the effects of the boxing. Boxing injuries and, you know, there was a lot of stage magic happening. I think there are ways to do it. I'm not aware of anyone who's tried, but there may be productions out there. Maybe one of your listeners will know about one. But I would be very curious to see something like that because I felt. I worried that the production was maybe overwhelming the intimacy of the story of those characters, like I said, those little characters and their little problems. And I would love to see a production that maybe enhance that to see if that helped, you know, anything. Who knows? I'm not a director, so.

[James Marino]

Well, I wanted to ask you one last question because you had brought it up Little Dancer. Yes, that's been kicking around for a long, long time. Have you been with it a while?

[Doug Besterman]

Yes, since the first Kennedy center production. It's Larry Hoffman and I are co orchestrating. I think the first, I think the Kennedy center was 2014. So it's been around for now 11 years.

[James Marino]

They changed the name of it to Mar, didn't they?

[Doug Besterman]

It was Marie when we did it in Seattle, 2019, something like that. And now it's back to Little Dancer. They switch back, which happens sometimes.

[James Marino]

Yeah, and.

[Doug Besterman]

Yeah, yep. And Tyler Peck is still involved and I think she'll be doing some choreography in this. It's a concert version they're doing in London. July 29, I think is the date. Larry and I aren't going over for it, but we're actively in the middle of helping them make revisions and things that they need to make this concert version work. So we're excited about it. I think it's. Hopefully this means that it'll garner some attention and they'll be able to bring it in finally. It's a lovely piece. The choreography is gorgeous and breathtaking and the score is absolutely lovely. Set in that era, it's sort of. That sort of French. I wouldn't say it's an impressionistic score, but it's. It's definitely a sort of classically inspired score and lots of fun and an original book by Lynn Ahrens. So it's really, it's. It's a good one.

[James Marino]

You are also working on the Arrival Arts Initiative. Tell us about that. What is it?

[Doug Besterman]

Yes, this is a new venture and without taking too much time on it, it came from a notion that, surprisingly, you may be surprised to hear that the music in musicals doesn't always have the development time that it needs, Particularly around the sound of the score. We've already talked about an orchestrator will come in at the very last minute. The way that scores have evolved on Broadway. Now, there are a lot of technical challenges to making the score sound big. Let's say if there are smaller forces and there's the use of tracks and electronic enhancement and pre record and digital tricks that we do to add size and scope to the orchestrations. And many shows are underdeveloped when it comes to this area. And so Arrival Arts is looking to help and create a container for the development of musicals once they've gotten to the point where they're ready to be clothed. So obviously the score needs to be written and to be developed to a certain point as a piece of material. The material itself needs to be somewhat solidified. And then the idea is, will create a space where music teams can come in and work with me in one way or another. Or I could be the orchestrator, I could be a kind of a supervisor, I could be a mentor, I could be a fly on the wall. And so it's really a two part thing. It's an organization to provide this service. And maybe there would be different levels of funding. A show might come in fully funded or might need some support, in which case we might be able to for grants, that sort of thing. And this is all very much still in the sort of soft launch phase. And then there's the studio, which I've called Studio Origin. And right now that's a small space I have in SoHo, which is the physical space where one can come and work. But eventually we'd like to Expand and have potentially a residential facility. So something within an hour of New York where you can come and possibly stay over and work, like in a retreat kind of setting on the music, specifically the music to a musical. So that's what Arrival Arts is.

[James Marino]

Wow.

[Michael Portantiere]

Nice.

[Jenna Tessa Fox]

That is amazing.

[James Marino]

Quite the project.

[Doug Besterman]

It's a big idea and I'm sort of at the phase of my career where I'm starting to think about legacy type ideas. And so this is really part of that. What can I do to support the next generation of people coming up and solve a problem that I think may exist or come up with a creative solution to something that I think we could do better?

[James Marino]

I thought the second act of your career was going to become a sommelier.

[Doug Besterman]

Well, I do love my wine and I did get a sommelier certification in 2016, so I have a WSET Level 2, which is like the junior high school of sommelier certifications. But I had to take a, I had to study a lot and take a hard test. And so I'm, I'm proud of it. But I, I do love, I love wine. Jenna, have you had wine with us? I, I, I can't remember if we've, if you've ever.

[Michael Portantiere]

You did invite me. Yes, you, I did get to join you for one of your wine evenings.

[Doug Besterman]

You did. That's right. That's right.

[Michael Portantiere]

A rooftop.

[Doug Besterman]

I remember. Yep, yep.

[Michael Portantiere]

Yes. Have you been hold. You've been holding out on me, man. Have you not?

[Doug Besterman]

That was the only one we did. That was. We, we had a group that I called Broadway Wine Lovers. But that was our only event, so maybe, maybe we'll circle. There's exactly a revival of Broadway Wine Lovers. There are a number, number of people in the musical theater world who are seriously invested in the wine world. I have a bass player friend who owns a wine shop and several musical director copyist friends who are heavily, heavily into wine. And there's an, an actor husband and wife team that are wine producers. I can't remember their names, but anyway, so there's definitely a connection between Broadway and wine.

[James Marino]

You gotta get together with Kurt Deutschland.

[Doug Besterman]

And Kurt, of course. Of course. Kurt owns a vineyard, so.

[James Marino]

Yeah, he owns a vineyard, you know.

[Doug Besterman]

Yeah. Yep.

[James Marino]

I think you and Kurt the Arrival Arts Initiative, will have wine. Exclamation point. The musical.

[Doug Besterman]

Yes. If somebody hasn't written that already, they should.

[James Marino]

Well, Doug, I want to thank you so much for spending so much time with us. We really monopolize your morning here. Doug Besterman can be [e-mail] the arrival arts initiative in Studio Origin can be found in the show notes and various other things we've talked about today. Doug, thanks so much and we'll talk with you soon.

[Doug Besterman]

Thank you.

[James Marino]

Okay, so moving into a review, Jenna, you got to see Duke and Raya that we've talked about a little bit in the past. What did you think of this?

[Michael Portantiere]

Yes, so Peter already talked about the show in late June, so I won't spend huge amounts of time recapping the premise. The basic story Duke and Roya is an old school romantic comedy about people from different cultures who still manage to fall in love. This goes back to like Amy's Irish Rose, if not earlier. The twist here is that the titular Duke is an American hip hop musician and the titular Roya is his translator when he comes to Afghanistan in 2017 to perform at a military base outside of Kabul. So setting a romantic Comedy during the 20 year American presence in Afghanistan is certainly a choice. May not be a great choice. I am trying to think of cross cultural romantic comedies set during the Vietnam War and not much is coming to mind. And you know, to be fair, playwright Charles Randolph Wright does incorporate some truly harrowing elements into the script that adds some risk and drama that balances the central romance. But these elements are barely fleshed out and by the time they really become central to the story, it's too little too late. The play ultimately treats the American occupation as just an inconvenience to overcome rather than a truly devastating conflict that destroyed countless lives and livelihoods, and it really prevents some of the comedy parts from being as enjoyable as they could be. Another challenge facing the show is that from the very beginning it is hard to understand what attracts these two people to each other from the moment they meet. Duke flirts very aggressively with Roya, but with absolutely no recognition of their very different cultural backgrounds or any expression of concern that his behavior could be seen as disrespectful. In her world, he is the outsider. Here he is the visitor, but sees no need to change what he's doing. And since they have barely greeted one another before he begins his flirtation, it seems very clear that his interest is purely physical. We get very few insights from Roya about how this makes her feel. As someone who is familiar with American culture but still very proudly Afghan and still very much part of that world, it's another missed opportunity for another layer to add to the story. Warren Adams's direction tries to balance classic romantic comedy with the drama of war. The result is uneven. It's certainly not Very dramatic but the comedy always feels a little uncomfortable underneath. Can we really laugh at these cross cultural misunderstandings when people are getting bombed and killed and tortured and hurt? It's uneven. Fortunately the performances are very very strong. Really agree with Peter that the play is well performed. I just wish the actors had stronger material to work with. Jay Ellis has plenty of swagger and style as Duke. He very nicely conveys his character's growing discomfort as he learns more about his love interests, life, background and the world that she comes from. Stephanie Nur's performance as Roya is much more nuanced as she balances multiple traditions with her growing infatuation. Nor especially shines in Act 2 when Roya has to make increasingly difficult choices. And of course the audience has the dramatic irony of knowing how some of those situations are going to end and we see we know what what choices she should be making and seems like a perfect example of dramatic irony. Frequently in a romantic comedy the supporting characters get some of the best material. Definitely the case here. Dariush Kishani and Noma Dumasweni, and I'm hoping I pronounced both names correctly are both very poignant and very funny. As Roya's father and Duke's mother respectively, I almost wish the story had focused on them and their lives rather than on the young couple. Kishani's gradual growth from idealistic to cynical is truly heartbreaking to watch while Dumaswani conveys wonderful she balances sophistication, maternal instincts and this this wonderful devastating dry wit. They are just fascinating to watch and every moment there on stage is a highlight. Ron Veo Daniels original music and lyrics are also effective. I couldn't really speak to how authentic they are since I'm not all that well versed. Pun intended on hip hop but. But the lyrics do nicely convey Duke's inner conflict and his issues very nicely I thought. Amina Alexander's lighting design is really effective and nicely demonstrates how how important lighting can be to the emotion of a dramatic moment. Even if that lighting doesn't need to have super bright LEDs and all kinds of zippy special effects. Most of the lighting are these elegant filament bulbs displayed under industrial looking lamps with fans above them and those lights will shift from very coldly efficient office lighting to warm and romantic as a scene requires. Really beautifully done nice lesson and how effective lighting can be and how much it can add to a moment. Wilson Chin's set is also great. It works for a very wide location, wide range of locations, everything from military barracks to a cobble tea shop to a luxury Dubai hotel, often with fairly minimal scenery. Again, a really good study in how just well chosen elements can work very, very effectively. Peter said in his review a month ago that the show might transfer to Broadway this season after its run ends at the Lortel in August. I don't think the show is quite ready for the shift yet, but I really hope that Randolph Wright takes another crack at the piece to find a better balance in the romance, the comedy, and the very serious drama of war and occupation. I think there's a very good play in here, but it needs a bit more refining before it's ready for a larger stage and a larger audience.

[James Marino]

Okay, so that is Duke and Raya. We've talked about it a few times here, various interviews throughout Broadway radio. It is running through August 23rd at the Lortel, and we'll let you know if there's a rumor of a transfer. So we'll see what happens there. Michael, you got up to 58th street and just south of Central park, where you were at the Paris Theater to see the Cabaret and Gentlemen Prefer Blonde. So tell us about this is part of the Wonders of Technicolor series at the Paris, correct?

[Jenna Tessa Fox]

Yes. As I mentioned, they're having lots of wonderful series at the Paris Theater now that it's run by Netflix. Netflix uses the theater whenever they do have a film of their own that they want to showcase in the theater. For example, Burns. I'm not sor. Bernstein Maestro with Bradley Cooper, the film about Leonard Bernstein played there, and several others recently. But when one of those is not booked, they've been having all these wonderful festivals, including classic films of different types. They just had a Hitchcock Festival, which might still be continuing, I'm not sure. And this Technicolor Festival, then they have a comedy festival coming up. And as I say.

[James Marino]

All, just about.

[Jenna Tessa Fox]

All of them include classic films in them. And I'm, I'm so happy to say that everything I've gone to has had a really good audience in, in terms of numbers. And that does, that just really does my heart good, because the Paris is the only single screen theater left in Manhattan, incredibly. But the fact that they're doing this kind of programming, I mean, I'm not counting there is also the Walter Reed Theater, but that's not a, that's not a commercial theater. The Walter Reed Theater at Lincoln center. And there might, there might be others of that type that are not commercial theaters in that sense, but the Paris is. And, and I think it's just great that they're showing all of these classics of varied types. I mentioned when I went to see Casablanca there that it was literally sold out. I went up to the box office just to get a ticket right beforehand. And I was one of the last people to be able to get a seat. And then they were also sometimes having personal appearances by people who appear in the films or are involved in the films. They recently did a screening of the film Nonna's N O N N A s that new film about that restaurant on Staten island that has the Italian grandmothers in the kitchen and Brenda Vaccaro and I think some other people also. But Brenda was there to speak about the film, which is great for her because she lives right down the block, so she didn't have far to go ago. And then I, I also mentioned that they, when they showed the film Vision Quest, they had Matthew Modine, the star of that film, speak. And I, I wasn't actually wasn't sure about this until that happened, but it turns out he is a New Yorker, so. So they, they're really making an effort to, to have people like that show up. And even when they don't and they just show the movies, I'm so happy that they're getting these really great audiences. These two films are very different in many ways. Cabaret and Gentlemen Prefer Blondes. But they do have something in common in that they, they're both very successful on their own terms, even though very different, Very, very different from the stage versions of the musicals, especially in terms of the score, but also in Cabaret in terms of the script as well. And Gentlemen Prefer Blondes somewhat less so, whereas. And in Diamonds, well, Excuse Me and Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, the three songs are Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend, Bye Bye Baby and Little Girl from Little Rock. Those are the three that came from the show. And in both cases, other songs, many other songs were added to the movies of these two of these two musicals. In the case of Cabaret, all of the new songs were by Kander and Epps. So that was a really great thing that they maintained that. That artistic integrity in that way, including one song that was pre. Existing maybe this time, which is now, of course, course become very much a part of revivals of Cabaret. And in Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, the new songs were not by the original, were not by Julie Stein and. And Leah Robin, but by other people. So. But I, I think it's interesting that, that really both movies are so great on their own while being so different from the stage versions. And that's. That's interesting because it doesn't always happen that way. A lot of times when great changes are made for the movies, the movies don't turn out very well. So I think, I think that that's a really great thing here and was wonderful to see both films on the big screen with appreciative audiences. And here's one really sweet little thing that happened that I have to comment on before, you know, the movies are shown, there's usually some kind of music playing over the sound system. And in this case, guess what? The music was playing over the sound system before Gentlemen Prefer Blondes.

[James Marino]

Some sort of smash thing?

[Jenna Tessa Fox]

No, it was Carol Channing's recording of Diamonds Are a Girl's Best Friend from the original Broadway cast recording. And when I noticed that, I thought to myself, you know, I hope she is conscious of this, you know, somewhere, wherever she is, and that she's smiling to know that somebody decided to program that before the film started. I think thought that was great because it's a perfect example of how, I mean, I, I did not see Carol Chani's complete performance as Lorelei and Gentlemen Prefer Blondes. I have seen clips of it, but I'm sure that both her performance and Marilyn Monroe's iconic performance in the film, I, you know, they were both very, very great and successful on their own terms. And that's wonderful when that happens also. So keep your eye on the calendar at the Paris theater because they really just keep having fabulous, fabulous stuff coming up there.

[James Marino]

Okay, so that wraps it up for this week. Before we get on to our brain teaser and our musical moments, I want to remind everybody that you can subscribe to these broadcasts by going to the front page of Broadway Radio. There's a subscribe link that way each and every time we have a new episode of this week on Broadway be automatically downloaded to Apple Podcasts for you. Of course, you don't have to listen to us in Apple podcasts as many ways to get us. One way is Patreon P A t r e o-n.com broadwayradio. You can support all of Broadway radio's shows as well as get us early and have a few extra benefits by by [e-mail] contact information for Jenna, for Michael and for me can be found in the show [e-mail] as well as links to some of the things we've talked about today. So, Peter, do you have an answer to last week's brain teaser?

[E]

In fact, I do. He was a household name in the early 20th century. His nickname was mentioned in two musicals in both cases very early on in the show. So each musical had a score by the same team. I'm talking about Charles Lindbergh, also known as Lucky Lindy, who's mentioned both in Chicago's all that Jazz and in the book of Steel Pier. Both shows were written by Kander and Ebb. Juliet Green was first, Sean Logan was second, Brigade was third, and that was it.

[Doug Besterman]

I told you it was a tough one.

[Jenna Tessa Fox]

Yeah, it was.

[E]

It really was. This week's question Right, So I won't ask. What do Michael Levine, Asia Barrows, Josie De Guzman, Penny Fuller, Jackie Hoffman, Janine La Mama, Karen Mason, Leroy Reams and Meg Bussert have in common? But I'll tell you that they will be appearing at 54 below on Monday, August 4th at 7pm When I do my show, which is Memories as I tell stories about various musicals I've seen and they sing songs from shows. So I hope you'll all come and it'd really be nice to see you. Okay. But truth to tell, that has nothing to do with the brain teaser and you're entitled to a brain teaser. And here it is. A leading male character in a Thornton Wilder three act classic would certainly take to the opening songs of two 1960s musicals, each produced by David Mirror Merrick, but five years and two months apart. Who's the Wilder character? What's the play, what are the two musicals and what are the two songs?

[James Marino]

Okay, if you have an answer for that, email [e-mail] we'll let you know if you're on the right track. So Michael, what do we have in this week's musical moments?

[Jenna Tessa Fox]

Well, we had so much to choose from relative to our special guest Doug Besterman, but I really, really did love the boop score overall, even though I, I think this show unfortunately maybe doesn't works so perfectly overall. And I, I am sorry that it has such a. Is going to have. I guess it's, it's gone by now, right? It's closed.

[James Marino]

Just closed last week. Closed last week. Last week.

[Jenna Tessa Fox]

Yeah. I'm sorry that it, that it had such a short life. But the cast album is very, very enjoyable largely because of Doug's orchestrations, not to mention the great performances, including Jasmine Amy Rogers in the title role. So our opener is a song called Where I Want to Be as sung by Jasmine Amy Rogers. Where I Want to Be. Isn't that also title of a song from Chess?

[James Marino]

Chess Where I Want to Be and Who I want to be and do it. And what is.

[Michael Portantiere]

I always said I would.

[Doug Besterman]

Sorry.

[Jenna Tessa Fox]

Yeah, that one which will be back on Broadway soon. But now this is a different song called Where I Want to Be, and it's a really great song by David Foster. And for our closer, I'm sure many of our listeners know that Connie Francis died during this past week, and she, of course, is a character, quite a major character in Just In Time, the Car current Broadway show about Bobby Darin, starring Jonathan Groff. So Gracie Lawrence, who plays Connie Francis in the show, did a tribute to her on the night of the day that she died. And after the curtain call of the show, she performed one of Connie's biggest hits, where the Boys Are. And there's a really fabulous clip of that, that of her doing that that's on YouTube that we will include in the show notes. And it's really great because she does a great job with the song. And you can see all the principals standing behind her while she's singing, including Jonathan Grof, who of course starts crying because he does that a lot. And also it was a very emotional moment bidding goodbye to Connie Francis. So we're including that in the show notes, but also, also including a link to our closer, which is a clip of Gracie Lawrence performing who's Sorry now, another Connie Francis hit in the show. That song is actually in Just in Time, whereas where the Boys Are is not. But who's Sorry now is in it. And this is a clip of Gracie Lawrence performing that song on Good Morning America. So please enjoy these two musical moments.

[James Marino]

Okay, so on behalf of Michael Portantier and Janetessa Fox, this is James Marino saying thanks so much for listening to Broadway radios this week on Broadway. Bye bye.

[Doug Besterman]

Now.

[Michael Portantiere]

Just like her friend.

[Doug Besterman]

That you want you so run away and so sad. I.