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ToB: Friday, April 18, 2025 | Trip Cullman on ‘We Had a World,’ ‘Cult of Love’
00:31:13
Stars Set to Join ‘All-Nighter’ Off-Broadway, Will Ferrell to Produce ‘Cult of Love’ Film, Matt Interview Trip Cullman Since 2016, “Today on Broadway” has been the first and only daily podcast recapping the top theatre headlines every Monday through Fr...
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- [00:00]
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- [01:03]
Matt Tammanini
For Friday, April 18, 2025 on Broadway Radio's Matt Tammanini. I am going to come to you solo today because Grace is taking a little PTO off from work and there's not a ton of news again as things have kind of quieted down, settled down heading into the holiday weekend. So I'm going to talk about what news we have and then I have a conversation that I did a couple days ago with one of the great directors not only working today, but quickly becoming one of the best directors of all time, Trip. He is currently represented Off Broadway with the Manhattan Theater Club production of Joshua Harmon's We Had a World. He was also seen on Broadway earlier this season with Second Stage's production of Cult of Love. So we talk about all of that. Of course I love his production of I can get it for you wholesale from Classic Stage Company a couple years ago. So we talk about that in the conversation. So that'll be at the end of today's episode. But I also wanted to make sure that you knew over in Patreon I finally got to my third travelogue episode from my late March, early April trip to New York. You can get that at the mezzanine tier and above. But James has also made a change on some of these things. You can now get individual episodes of Jan Simpson stuff, both stagecraft and all the drama and my travelogue episodes. Even if you don't subscribe to Patreon. You can get them for $3 a piece. So if you're interested in that, head over to patreon.com broadwayradio broadwayradio.com patreon although I would say that if you're going to do that, it's probably just easier to subscribe monthly and get all of the content that we have for you. There's now, as I said, we are heading into a holiday weekend, so we will not have an episode of Today on Broadway. On Monday, however, there will be an interview in the feeds and it will be with the one and only Broadway legend Betty Buckley. I guess you can kind of say that Grizabella is kind of an Easter metaphor. She dies and I think resurrects, Right? I don't really understand what happens in Cats, but it kind of makes sense. But nonetheless, we will have that conversation for you on Monday. But first, let's dive into the news. And on yesterday's show, I spoke with Julia Lester about the Off Broadway show All Nighter. Well, we now know that she's going to have two new cast members during the last few weeks of the run over at the MCC Theater and that is because starting on Wednesday, April 30 and running through the end of the Show's run on May 18, Issa Briones and Anna Sophia Robb will join the production, taking over the roles of Havana Rose Liu and Christine Froseth, who who are departing the show for other projects that they are working on. If you are going to recast a show with up and coming it girls from both stage and screen, you really couldn't do much better than getting Isa Briones and Anna Sophia Robb. Anna Sophia Robb has been on TV for a very long time. She has done some theater work as well. She played a young Carrie Bradshaw in the Carrie Diaries Sex and the City prequel and she can currently be seen on NBC's Grosse Pointe Garden Society. Issa Briones, of course, is the daughter of John John Briones and they co starred in Hadestown on Broadway together. I saw her, she was fantastic and she was most recently seen on one of the biggest hits of this spring on tv, Max's the Pit starring Noah Wylie. So two great up and coming stars joining this show. So if you want to check them out, get your tickets from April 30 through May 18. A few weeks ago we told you about the new Broadway Cares Benefit concert that's going to be an annual tradition. It is a one night only event called Broadway Dream Roles in which stars get to sing songs of roles that they wish they could play, roles that they want to play, roles that they were close to playing but never have had the opportunity to. Well, yesterday we got some of the people who are going to be involved with that. That includes Eric Bergen, Liz Calloway, Tom Francis, Jennifer Holiday, Leslie Margarita, Jimin Moon Zachary, Noah Peyser, Jasmine, Amy Rogers, and 2024 Jimmy Award winner Damson Chola Jr. The great Tony winner Kara Young will host the event that will take place at the Al Hirschfeld Theater where Moulin Rouge is currently playing on Monday, April 28th. Timed perfectly with the fact that I am speaking with Trip Coleman in today's episode. Yesterday we got news that the film version of Cult of Love is moving forward and not only is Leslie Headland going to direct, as we had previously previously assumed, but the project is being produced by Gloria Sanchez Productions, which is owned and run by Will Ferrell and Jessica Elbaum. Headlund will not only direct, but she will adapt her own stage play for the screen. No word on necessarily when this will come to the screen, but this will be the third project that Ferrell and Elbaum have produced of Headland's work, including the screen adaptation of Bachelorette and Sleeping With Other People. This is very cool. Coming up this summer, in a couple months, July 23rd at Damroche park in Lincoln Center, Def Broadway's 2025 performance will be of Waitress. Now they have done this in the past with Once on this Island Company, into the Woods, Les Mis, Rocky Horror, Legally blonde, Sweeney Todd, etc. But what they do is they have a full deaf cast performing the show in ASL to a pre recorded audio track or an audio performance of the musical. So we'll be able to hear it but then also be able to see the show done with asl. Sandra Mae Frank, who was in the Deaf West Theater Company's production of Spring Awakening on Broadway, will direct and the cast will be announced in the coming weeks and months. All right, a few real quick recommendations. Andrew Lloyd Webber is doing his best to hype up the eventual return of Phantom of the Opera to New York City. He got one of those sealed red envelopes that a lot of people on social media have gotten. So if you want to see that, you can head over to the show Notes. Then on Thursday we had the cast of Little Shop of Horrors head over to the Today show as part of their City concert series to perform the song Skid Row. It included not only the ensemble, but Elizabeth Gillies and Milo Manheim who have recently extended their run in the show. And then finally my uncle listens. Listen to this podcast, Freakonomics, which is a show that I used to listen to back in the past, but they had an episode that came out about a week ago called how is Live Theater Still Alive? It is part one of a three part series. They talk to a bunch of people whose names you will recognize. Christopher Ashley, Quentin Darrington, Joe DiPietro, Crystal Monet Hall, Rocco Landsman, Alan Shore, Daniel J. Watts, Richard Winkler, and more. So I haven't had a chance to dive into this, but over the holiday weekend, this is going to be one that I listened to, but my uncle thought it was great and thought it was right up my alley. So check that out in the show notes. All right, with all of that out of the way, here is my conversation with the absolutely incredible director, Tripp Coleman. Of course, I'll have information on where you can purchase tickets to check out We Had a World in the show notes. But thank you for listening to today on Broadway. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram, rodwayradio. Have a wonderful Friday, a wonderful weekend. If you celebrate Easter, I hope that you have a lovely holiday, hopefully with friends and family. And Betty Buckley and I will be back to talk to you on Monday. All right, Trip. We Had a World is a show about different generations of family. But I wonder, from a directing standpoint, when you have a cast that spans multiple generations, do you find yourself approaching the job differently to account for those differences in life and professional experiences? Obviously, in this case, Andrew Barth Feldman is kind of preternaturally talented, so maybe you don't have to. But what he's experienced in his career and what he has had the opportunity to explore will inevitably be different from what someone like Joanna Gleason has.
- [08:42]
Tripp Coleman
Certainly, you know, I, I guess I would say, you know, I've done a ton of shows where there's quite a bit of intergenerational storytelling going on. I think it's more, the answer is really more personal that like earlier on in my career, I might have identified more with like Andrew's character. And now that I'm superannuated, I might identify more with the sort of more adult characters like the mother or even the grandmother. So, but that being said, I think, you know, my job is to have, you know, a kind of plethora of empathy for each of the characters. And so I just really try to get into the underneath the skin of everyone, no matter what their ages or their range of experience of life experience. And I think the real challenge with the youngest character, which is the grandson played by Andrew, is that he really is the narrator of the piece. He has so much direct address to the audience. So really sort of crafting and forging a methodology of approach so that. That. That Andrew was. Was really, really connecting with the audience, that they were his scene partner in many, many ways, was. Was a sort of delicious challenge.
- [10:12]
Matt Tammanini
How do you do that? What is. What makes that challenge something that can be achieved?
- [10:18]
Tripp Coleman
Well, you know, you. You rehearse and rehearse and rehearse in a rehearsal room, and then you kind of start previews, and all of a sudden there's this final character, this final element that is probably the most important element, which is the audience that comes into play. And I think, to the best of my knowledge, the way to approach it is I am the audience substitute in rehearsal rooms. So I really had Andrew talk to me or talk to my associate or talk to the stage managers or the playwright. And we sort of spread ourselves throughout the. The room because the show is staged in a thrust configuration, which means that the audience is on three sides of the stage. And so that's also part of it, that Andrew has to make sure that he's, you know, the expression is sort of throwing. Throwing carrots to all three sides of the room rather than just concentrating on the one. So I think there was a bunch of sort of rehearsal and practice to get comfortable with that kind of approach.
- [11:18]
Matt Tammanini
And is there something in addition to, like, the logistics of making sure that you're playing to all three sides? Is there a way to develop that intimacy or that, I don't know, charisma that you have between an audience and a performer? Or is it part practice, part inherent likability that you have to. Have to get an audience on your side when you are doing so much direct address?
- [11:40]
Tripp Coleman
That's a great question. You know, there is an adage that states that good directing is 90% good casting.
- [11:48]
Matt Tammanini
So I think that's Mike Nichols, right?
- [11:51]
Tripp Coleman
Yeah, exactly. Who was my mentor. And so I think, like, you know, at the end of the day. Absolutely, you have to. You have to get the right performer in that role so that they're not, you know, leading with terror as they. As they look at an audience in the eye. But there's so many beautiful, sort of kismet things that can happen. Like at the end of the piece, for instance, Andrew is in a moment of monologuing to the audience, and he asked the question, are there any grandchildren here sitting next to their Grandmothers. And sometimes in, you know, in performance, people say, yeah, and they raise their hands. And then he has to kind of adjust in the moment. And instead of pretending that that didn't happen, that's an event that happens in the course of the telling of this story. So, yes, I think you need an actor who is dynamic, has enormous charisma, who can hold the stage and deliver language with facility. And then you also have to work towards allowing the actor to be in the moment always and to roll with whatever strange. Sometimes people laugh at certain lines and sometimes they don't. And sometimes they laugh at lines that we've never had laughs at before. And you have to kind of adjust to what's happening in the moment, which is always a good thing, I think.
- [13:15]
Matt Tammanini
Well, you mentioned, as we've kind of been talking about here, that Andrew is the narrator of this show. And I think Joshua Harmon, the playwright, has talked openly that this is at least a semi autobiographical story in many ways. You've worked with Joshua many times over the years, so I assume that there has been a pretty good understanding and relationship that you have. But is it something different when you know that this is. I think probably all of his shows are at least semi autobiographical. But, like, when he is telling a pretty personal story, does that change what you do in the room, whether he's sitting over your shoulder or not?
- [13:52]
Tripp Coleman
I think with any new play, the relationship between a director and a writer is comprised of an enormous amount of trust and support and mutual, creative, challenging. And so when a story. Story is personal or semi autobiographical, it becomes even more pronounced. I feel like this is my season of directing shows that are hyper, hyper autobiographical. I did, earlier this year, I did Cult of Love by Leslie Hedlund on Broadway, which is also an extremely personal story. And so, yeah, I mean, I think. I think that only because Leslie and I, and actually Josh and I have had such a long history of collaboration and such a deep friendship, can I earn the trust of that writer to, you know, be bequeathed such a personal story and to be able to tell it in a way that honors the truth of the experience, but also in some way sort of psychologically or emotionally can protect the writer in a narrative that is so vulnerable because it's so exposing.
- [15:12]
Matt Tammanini
I want to get back to Cult of Love because it is my favorite show of the season that I've seen on Broadway. So we'll come back to that. But you mentioned you've worked so much with Joshua Harmon, you've worked so much with Leslie Hedlund. Throw in like Hallie Pfeiffer as well. And basically, if one of the hot great playwrights in New York City has a new show coming, you're like, oh, it's just like nine times out of ten going to be directed by Tripp Coleman. What does having these years, decades long relationships with playwrights mean to that collaborative process? What does it mean for you as a director in terms of approaching their work? And what does it mean for them, do you think, as writers to be able to give these new works over to you, to kind of shepherd to the stage?
- [15:54]
Tripp Coleman
Well, first of all, thank you for the very flattering comment, but I, you know, and you actually had mentioned Mike Nichols earlier in the conversation and actually that's a perfect template, right? Like Mike Nichols and Neil Simon had one of the sort of historically most successful director writer collaborations of all time. And I think the only way that that relationship produced as many classics that are indelible to the American canon is because they kept working with each other. So I think the dream always is to forge relationships as a director of new work, as I am with writers that can last over a lifetime. That, for instance, Josh and I worked together was on a play called Significant Other, which was also very personal to him and was about kind of his own experience being single in the, in his 20s and kind of watching all of his female friends kind of marry off and have their relationships kind of become a little bit more distant as, you know, as is, as is of course normal that they would then, you know, kind of take their emotional and personal needs and sort of, you be with their husbands as a result rather than their gay best friends. So, you know, I guess what I'm saying by that is we did that when Josh was in his early 30s and I was in my late, late, late late 30s. And so the perspective on that moment in his life, it's very rewarding to then be doing this play with again. We're looking at from now. He's married, he has kids, he's in forging his own family, is looking back on his, you know, his family of origin and sort of seeing how one's relationship with one's closest family members can be both fraught and maybe the most important relationships in one's life. And I as well, like just, I'm thinking about where I was at in my own life when we did Significant Other versus now. And you know, to be able to have frankly a lifetime of experience with a playwright really does, really does matter and really does help a creative partnership get deeper and Deeper and deeper. And that the trust that is so necessary between a writer and a director can only get richer and yield riper, I hope, fruit creatively, I would say.
- [18:41]
Matt Tammanini
When you look at somebody, let's mention Leslie Hedlund as well. When you do so many of her new shows on stage, when you see her working so much on screen and sometimes directing her own things, do you get a little jealous, like, oh, wait a minute, we're supposed to be working together. What are you doing directing your own stuff, especially on screen?
- [19:03]
Tripp Coleman
Gosh, that would be extremely selfish of me to feel that way because, you know, I'm. I'm too, I'm too timing Leslie when I work with Josh Harmon. You know what I mean? Actually, for writers, they have a much narrower window of productivity in terms of just. It takes a long time to write a play. Whereas a director can jump from project to project, if they're lucky and work several times within the course of a year. Whereas a writer, new work will fill up at least a year, oftentimes many more in terms of their concentration of what they're actually, you know, focused upon. So I, I think, you know, it's an open marriage. It's an open marriage with these displaywrights. And I think we have to, you know, be ethically. You know, there's that book, the Ethical Slut, I feel like. I think that's a useful metaphor for writer director relationships.
- [20:08]
Matt Tammanini
Yeah, Well, I wanted to bring up Leslie because she is one of my favorite writers, both on stage and screen, dating back to assistants and going into Russian Doll and Acolyte and all of the stuff that she's been doing. But like I said a minute ago, Cult of Love was my favorite thing that I've seen on Broadway so far this season. I've still got a few more left, so I haven't crowned it officially, but. But being able to work with that ensemble, specifically with some big name stars and then some folks who were new to me, that was such an unbelievably interesting and well managed show because everybody had their moments, everybody had their arcs. When you do take something that is pretty massive and not only factoring in the autobiographical stuff that Leslie put in there, but it's a big cast and there's a lot going on. How much of your job is logistics of like trying to make sure we get everything and how much of it is emotional to be able to tell that story properly? Is it, is it 50? 50? Is it where on the Pendulum, I guess, is that.
- [21:11]
Tripp Coleman
That's a. That's really interesting, because I. I would never separate them out into two different things. I think that one feeds the other and they both sort of exist. Like, in order to have the clarity of storytelling, when you have 10 people on stage at the same time, you actually need to have emotional clarity, or you need, you know, you need to arrange the bodies in that space so that the audience is focused on the primary story. Because all 10 characters have stories that are ongoing simultaneously in that play. And tertiary action, while it needs to be super credible and realistic, has to also be tertiary so that the audience is not losing the, you know, the main thing that Leslie wants you to be focusing on. But, you know, it was an unbelievable challenge. We had. We had. I counted it. We had 16 and a half days to rehearse the entire play before we got into. And this is a play that has numerous moments where the characters sing in harmony with each other and play instruments. And we had many, many actors who had never sang on stage before, who had never played an instrument before. They had to learn those instruments. So it was just an enormous, enormous, heavy, heavy, heavy lift. But that was also the most fun I've ever had because they were just brilliant, all those performers. And they also were deeply, deeply committed to the play, which is just an extraordinary piece of writing because I think, as you said, you are watching 10 fully fleshed out characters with 10 arcs, like real arcs that happen through the course of the 95 minutes of the telling of the story, which is something you never get. You get usually like two or three characters that you're really following and everyone else is sort of like third spear carrier from the left. But that's not the case with this one. Each one of them really worked deeply, deeply three dimensional. And that was the, that was the challenge and the fun of it was to stage it and to investigate the psychologies and emotionalities of each of these characters in a, in a, in a. In a naturalist, hyper naturalistic format, so that, you know, every single person felt alive every single second of the show.
- [23:33]
Matt Tammanini
And you compare that to. We had a world where still three very fleshed out characters, but it's just three. When you go over to do something like that, does that allow you the opportunity, I don't know, to investigate things more especially? I don't know if you only had 16 and a half days for this one too. But like, when you do have a little bit more room to breathe with less people and a little bit more time, does that give you the opportunities to excavate more than you might have an opportunity to. If there was 20 other people on stage.
- [24:02]
Tripp Coleman
I mean, I think I would be bad at my job if that were the case. I think I have to, you know, I have to set the intention that every single piece that I do has a really in depth excavation of character. I think that the challenges were different. I mean, there's no direct address in Cult of Love. There's no singing and playing instruments in We Had a World. There is, but there is. They do share the kind of intense, thorny dynamics of interpersonal dynamics of a family. And I think. I also think that another major difference is that Cult of Love was. The style was hyper naturalism. And in We Had a World, it was very metatheatrical. It's about a playwright writing a play about his family. So the ability to allow for a real sort of minimal but effective style of storytelling. For instance, there's a ton of phone calls in we had the World, but there's no phones on stage. So, you know, the way in which I was able to, in a non literal way, but that spoke to the emotionality of it, put the grandma next to the grandson on the same couch to have a phone call happen where they're in reality, miles and miles and miles away felt really right for the style of that piece and the way how that story was told. So different challenges, different exciting opportunities with both shows, I would say, but very, very different. Yeah, yeah.
- [25:51]
Matt Tammanini
Well, as you said, you are kind of one of the preeminent directors in bringing new works, both plays and musicals to the New York stage. I wonder if you've had time throughout this busy season. What's something that you've seen recently that you didn't direct that you're like, oh, I really love? This is. This is great.
- [26:10]
Tripp Coleman
That is a great question. What have I seen recently that really blew me away? You know, I tragically don't have a ton of time to go see theater, but the last piece of writing that really, truly blew me away was Brandon Jacob Jenkins purpose. I think he's just such a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant writer. I would give my right arm to be able to work with him one day because I think he's such a good writer. And I just appreciated being in that theater, which is the same theater that we did Cult of Love in. And hearing just the sheer beauty and complexity of his writing was a real privilege for me.
- [26:57]
Matt Tammanini
Yeah, that was a great one. Well, I'll wrap it up here on a couple questions specifically about We Had a World. First, I would not be doing my journalistic duty if I didn't ask? Because there are rumors out there that this will not be the last time that we will see this in New York. Is there anything that you can share as you're hiding your head in your hands? Can you tell us anything about any potential future for this show somewhere other than New York City Center?
- [27:19]
Tripp Coleman
Well, gosh, I hope so. You know, you work so, so hard to make something, and because theater is what it is, it's ephemeral, it goes away when you close. But I would love for this to have a future life. I've heard little nibbles of rumors, but no one's actually called me. So if you know anything, let me know.
- [27:42]
Matt Tammanini
You would know far more than I would. I just have heard that you had. So, okay, that's good. We got that out of the way. But for people who are thinking about coming and seeing We Had a World before it wraps up next month, what are they going to get from this show? Is this a show that hits those emotional heartstrings of people that have strained relationships with families? What are they going to get out of the opportunity to come and witness these three actors telling this specific story?
- [28:11]
Tripp Coleman
I have to say, like, you know, it's very rare when you really, you get a piece that speaks to the truth of a family and what it means to be inside of a family. And, you know, there's that saying that through the specific, you get the universal. And this particular family with their particular struggles, you know, happens to be like a Jewish family. But, you know, I've had people from all walks of life, all faiths, all, you know, sort of ethnic backgrounds and ways in which they identify really relate to the dynamics of this particular family. And so what I would say is that in much the same way, funnily enough, that Cult of Love was so specific and yet spoke to everyone universally. This play really, really does make. You know, I have to tell you, like, one of the great pleasures of my career is being in the audience at We Had a World and listening to the audience start to sniffle and then sob towards the end of the play. And you just are like, wow, it's really, really hitting for people that, you know, you can hear a pin drop, people laugh, and then all of a sudden they are overcome with emotion. And so many people have said to me, I called my mother the second the curtain came down to tell her how much I loved her. Which is beautiful. You know, it's a beautiful thing. That's all you can ask for, is to be able to reflect human experience back to an audience.
- [29:44]
Matt Tammanini
Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk about this. As I said, Cult of Love, one of my favorite shows from this season. I can get it for you wholesale. One of my two or three favorite shows from the previous season. So it really was a pleasure and an honor to chat with you and hopefully you get a chance to do it again in the future.
- [29:57]
Tripp Coleman
Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
- [30:13]
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