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Today on Broadway: Thursday, Jan. 30, 2025
00:18:23
DeBose Won’t Star in ‘Evita,’ Discussion on Political Plays Since 2016, “Today on Broadway” has been the first and only daily podcast recapping the top theatre headlines every Monday through Friday. Any and all feedback is appreciated:Grace Aki: grace@...
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- [00:02]
A
Welcome to Today on Broadway for Thursday, January 30, 2025. I'm Broadway Radio's Matt Tamineni.
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B
I'm Tell Me on a Sunday podcast. Grace Aki.
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A
Grace, there is not a ton of news today, so what we're gonna do is we're gonna talk about that first story and then you and I went and saw Eureka Day at the Samuel J. Friedman Theater on Wednesday night and that kind of led to a discussion that we had after the show about the state of plays and playwriting right now and what we're seeing come to Broadway. I guess not necessarily playwright as a whole seeing brought to Broadway because I also saw Cult of Love on Wednesday afternoon over at the Helen Hayes Theater. So we're gonna talk about this, a little bit of news, dive into that conversation and then let you get onto your Thursdays. But the first big piece of news comes from Variety as an exclusive and they are reporting that despite the actress's own statements about it being, you know, 70% close to happening, Ariana DeBose will not star in the Jamie Lloyd directed production of Evita that is going to be happening in London this summer due to scheduling conflicts. Dubose is currently shooting the show Scarpetta, which is an Amazon prime video series adaptation that also stars Nicole Kidman and Jamie Lee Curtis. DeBose plays Jamie Lee Curtis daughter and Nicole Kidman's niece in that show. And when it was announced, they talked about the fact that it was picked up for two seasons. So while the Variety article does not discuss what these scheduling conflicts are, I think that it is very likely having to do with season two of that show which is currently shooting right now. But as has kind of been in the ether, Grace, while this is only going to be a 12 week run in the summer in London, I think based on Jamie Lloyd's track record, especially because Sunset also had like a 12 week run in London before coming to Broadway, it probably means that the conflict that Ari has is not with the London run and more with a potential Broadway run and the timing for that. So that's disappointing. Variety mentions that DeBose is interested in returning to Broadway, quote, when the time is right. My sources seem to think that she's in active pursuit of finding, well, not even Finding has a project that they are trying to get to Broadway as soon as her schedule allows. But what's interesting about this, Grace, there's also some pretty big names floating around the world for this production to be playing Juan Perrone, including the star who played Shea in the movie version Antonio Banderas. But when you're going from an Oscar winner, a Tony nominee like Ariana DeBose to try to recast that, especially when you look at Jamie Lloyd's productions recently, obviously, you had Nicole Scherzinger and Sunset. You had Jessica Chastain in A Doll's House on Broadway. You also currently have Much Ado About Nothing with Tom Hiddleston and Hayley Atwell. I would imagine, Grace, that they have to be thinking a pretty big name star to take over that role. I honestly was kind of surprised from the beginning that they didn't go back to Sam Polley, who originated the role in this production back in 2019. But if they don't go back with Sam, do they go with a pop star who has the dancing pedigree that this show requires, that this production requires, who has a Latina background, a Selena Gomez, a Demi Lovato? I don't even know who else, because I don't know a ton of pop people. But, like, is that the direction that they would go? And if so, do you have any ideas of who might be the right person to take over?
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B
Unfortunately, no. I think it's a really only because, like, this show and, you know, and anyone, I guess, listening that knows how I feel often about, like, musicals, especially where I really want the acting performance to kind of like, shine through. This is a heavy sing and I, you know, you need someone that can deliver that because of the way that it's written. It's just more enjoyable. You know what I mean? So I think that you have to have somebody that can hit that caliber and also sell the show. I feel like the whole reason that they were making this happen was because it was around the vehicle of Ari and not just because, quote, people want to do Evita like I thought it was. You know what I mean? So it wouldn't surprise me if they hold off from that plan. But you're saying that, like, in that stage, is there someone else? Maybe. Maybe vocally I can't name off the top of my head, but that could be an opportunity for it to be someone that we not would not have thought of. Listen, did I think three years ago, you know who they should call for? Norma Desmond? Nicole Scherzinger. No, but you know, who slays Nicole Scherzinger. So I think I'm a little blinded, forgive the phrase of what I think that could be. I think that Jamie is a really exciting, visionary director in the casting since especially so it wouldn't surprise me if, like, up his sleeve he's like, haha, this person. And I was like, oh, of course, that's genius. And I didn't. I wouldn't have thought of it at all. So who knows? But I do think that there's an opportunity here. And a lot of people have been itching for his production of Evita again, because to your point, like, people talked about the Sam Pauli version and. Yeah, I'm just curious what that could mean.
- [05:11]
A
Yeah, it is. If you listen to my interview with Fabian Eloise, who choreographed that production. And even though he has not officially been named as the choreographer for this London version, or at least he wasn't at the time that we spoke, he highly suggested that it was in the cards that he would be returning to this production, especially given the success that he's had with Jamie since then, including with Sunset Boulevard. But it is as he talked about, they modeled their version of Ava after Beyonce. Like, I mean, this is a Beyonce Coachella type staging. That's what this Evita is like. So you have to have somebody who has not only the singing chops, like you mentioned, Grace, but has the dancing ability to pull something like that off. So that's why my mind immediately went to people who have pop backgrounds. The other name that not nearly as big a star as Selena Gomez or Demi Lovato or even Ariana Grande or Ariana DeBose would be somebody who has played Ava before, but only in a very small capacity would be Maya Rafico, who played the young version of Ava in the City center production where she was the young version and then Soleila Pfeiffer became the older version. She was incredible. And I saw her in Hadestown on Broadway. She was awesome. Now, I'm assuming she can dance. I don't know that for a fact, but she doesn't have the big name, but she's, you know, she's like a young Gen Z celebrity. That could be interesting. But whatever happens with this, I. I'm very, very excited for this production. I've been waiting for it for now going on six years. And the fact that it looks like it is not only working its way London Stage, but hopefully eventually to Broadway, makes me very happy. All right, Grace, let's talk about plays, which is something that I know you love. We saw Eureka Day on Wednesday night over at the Seymour J. Friedman Theater from the Manhattan Theater Club. It is written by Jonathan Spector and directed by Anna D. Shapiro. It stars Amber Gray, Jessica Hecht, Bill Irwin, Thomas Middleditch and Chelsea Akia Kurtz. And it essentially follows the school board for a very progressive private school in California in the Bay Area, in Berkeley that has to deal with a vaccination issue. This is pre Covid. So it was about. Was it mumps? Was that. Was that right, Grace? Was it. Was it mumps or measles? I can't remember. I think it was mumps.
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B
I remember both of those words.
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A
Yes, they were both having to do with the MMR vaccinations, but I think it was months that the kids actually had. If you guys remember, as I was talking about the show before it opened and before the reviews came out, I just talked about how, like, I was already cringing and tired of the idea of having to see a anti vax focused show even though this premiered off Broadway before COVID So, like, I'm not saying this is a knee jerk reaction to Covid, because this, that's not what this show is. But my personal cringe factor was very low for something like this. I don't. My tolerance was not going to be like that. But the reviews for this all were talking about how smart it was and how funny it was. And it is an objectively funny show, Grace. But especially for the first 45 minutes, my skin was crawling and it redeemed itself with kind of a twist in the middle and how they approach things on the back half. But to me, it kind of brought to mind this idea of as we're seeing plays like this and the Thanksgiving play, I don't know if that was last season or the season before from Larissa Fasthorse, where we are not only lampooning people on both sides of the political aisle, but talking about these bigger issues that seem so omnipresent in our lives. I don't know that we have the distance from them to say something all that informed and insightful, yet. So that I think, to me is where the cringe comes because it's like we're still living this. Like, I don't need to see people, you know, guffawing over different predilections when it comes to. To vaccinations because, like, it's still something we're dealing with. Like, I'm not ready to see that thrust at us on stage, at least not with a comedic bent. So I don't know. I think we're seeing a lot of these things. Like now not all of them are coming to Broadway. They're around the country, they're in New York, But a lot of these big ones are making it to Broadway and makes me nervous and uncomfortable. And I Just, you know, I secondhand embarrassment, awkwardness, I don't do well with. And. And that's definitely what I felt like at least through the first half of Eureka day.
- [09:52]
B
One thing I want to say that MTC always gets right is casting Jessica Hecht. I think that there's something about the way that that woman is able to portray, quote, well meaning white woman in her 60s better than anybody else. You know what I mean? Like, it's, it's really special. It always cringy in the best way. Like, I feel like we all know this woman. We all, we have all been around her. We are all currently Facebook friends with her. You know, she's just. Yeah, I really, I enjoy her nuanced at times. Karen, like performances, like, it's just really, it's unsettling and it's deeply thoughtful and with care and with love. And I love watching her work with the others actors on stage. You can tell that she is actively in scenes with them. I mean that's, I mean that's that Chicago training, baby. But she's, she's just fabulous at that. And I love getting to see actors work alongside her. It just feels like such a privilege.
- [10:55]
A
Yeah. The cast, and this is not a reflection on, on the cast, you know, Amber Gray, Bill Irwin are two seasoned theater vets. And you know, I think I leaned over to you at one point and during a scene change, I said like, Bill Irwin is the MVP of this because he played the, I guess, principal of the school and he was trying very hard not to take sides in anything, but also being like the very cognizant progressive of everybody's feelings. And he was just playing this very funny traffic cop. But moving on to like some of the ideas about where we are with plays right now, Grace, you had an interesting observation that, and I don't want to steal your line, but I want you to explain a little more deeply. But like, it seems like a lot of people are writing the same play, you said, even if they have slightly different plots and focuses.
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B
Well, like every, you know, you can look at like any pocket of time, right, of, of when there's like political or economic, et cetera, turmoil. When are we ever not in that in the US but there's always like this kind of like ebb and flow of people wanting to talk about politics without talking about politics, and they write kind of a kitchen sink or you know, people with different ideologies. 90 minute, no intermission. There's one inciting, you know, oh, you know, it's. It's vaccines or it's, you know, they discuss autism and things like that or, you know, gun control, you know, and it's interesting because I like seeing all these different takes, but a lot of them are sometimes this. Well, there's, you know, there's two sides to this or like, you know, give the other one a chance or whatever it might be, you know. But they're all really similarly rooted. And I'm, I'm fascinated that we are now in this like 20, 25 time of slotting them into seasons because you can kind of like pinpoint the like models of it, you know, Matt, you just seen Cults of Love. I googled this play title just on the get, and then it says current like searches Cult of Love. Like, you know, and then, and then Thanksgiving play. And I was like, interesting, you know, so there's, there's all of these, you know, especially this subscription model. I think that everyone's picking their variation of that in their subscription season, you know what I'm saying? Like, I feel like every subscription house, nonprofit especially has their version right now of, of the type of story they're wanting to tell with like six different perspectives on something. There's the person of color, there's the well meaning white woman of an age. There is the guy that's just trying to get along with everybody. There's you, the white guy. The white guy that's like, no, no, no is. It is, you know, what are your pronouns? Like, they're trying to, you know, I mean, it's like it's always a funny joke that like 12 minutes into the piece he's trying so hard that he's like overcorrecting and it's embarrassing. And then the whole audience is like, no. And then there's always the person that at the end of the show, at the top of the show, you're like, oh, you're going to be the problem child and she's, you know, the Alana from Dear Evan Hansen. But by the end, she's able to see kind of what your audience is meant to feel. So it's just interesting to me that we are in that phase and I'm curious to see what the other what, what another, you know, that was written maybe in 2021 or 2022 is going to get slotted into another season in this coming spring fall era and what topic they, they will choose, whether that is vaccinations, whether that is gun control, whether that is pro choice or pro life, et cetera. Especially in like, we're now into this second Trump term. So I'm curious to see what it is. But I do think it's worth noting that I, I'm sure that playwrights and dramaturgs and, and whatnot are, are looking at this maybe from a, you know, strategic, like, marketing standpoint of like, okay, so like, this could be slotted. This premiered at Berkeley two years ago and now it's ready or whatever it might be. But I do think it is funny that we're seeing a lot of different sides of a similar. We're seeing. We're not seeing the same play. I want to be very clear. These are all very, very good plays, but we are seeing different plays in different fonts. But we're seeing the same play in different fonts kind of. And I think it's cool and exciting. I like, I like when we can like, see where we are in that cultural zeitgeist as like a theater community. You know, we're clearly, like, interested in what these stories have to say because we're experiencing all these conversations in our homes. We like to see them when other people are doing them, so it's less painful when we have them in person.
- [15:19]
A
Let me ask you a question, Grace, because you are. Okay, nevermind, show over. You're in, you're. You. You are probably going to be more exposed to this than I am because I work from home and, and I don't necessarily work, you know, in the kind of the same circles that you do. But between this Eureka Day and Thanksgiving play, do people really talk like that? Like, I assume in academic circles and in circles that are especially focused on social justice, that there might be a, an element of that in the way that people talk in the, and the phrases they use and the, the care and concern that they give back and forth to people. But to me, it always feels like uber heightened, you know, as a sense, you know, for comedy to take things that are real and amplified. But I'm not sure. I'm. I'm not sure if this is like, if the way that these people in that school board were talking to each other, like, is that real or is that turned up to 11 for comedic effect? I guess if that.
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B
Yeah, I think it's both. I think that these conversations often happen like over the course of like 12 weeks, but people have condensed them for time into 90 minutes. I experience all types of like, short, like, oh, this person said this. That was weird. Or like, this person said this and like, oh, you were so close. But they happen, like, spread out over time. And so when people are able to boil them down into these characters and put them, for your point, like, to comedic effect, to go through it quickly, it adds this, like, heightened sense of reality.
- [17:00]
A
Okay. Yeah. So, like, the people being, you know, it was very ironic that they at least once, if not multiple times, use the term holding space, because that has become so, so identified with Ariana Grande holding Cynthia Eriva's pinky during Wicked interviews. But those kind of terms that we hear bandied about a lot, there was a lot of that. So I wasn't sure if I was meant to be taking this literally or not. But over on Patreon, by the end of this week, I will have my full thoughts on both Eureka Day and Cult of Love. As I said, Eureka Day made my skin crawl a little bit in the first 45 minutes. Cult of Love, I thought was brilliant, might have been my favorite thing that I saw this whole trip. But I have to process that. I'm still, you know, just, you know, six and a half hours after having finished seeing it. So I have to process it a little bit. But if you want to hear my thoughts on the second half of my trip, over to patreon.com broadwayradio broadwayradio.com patreon and click on the mezzanine tier and above that will be out by Saturday. The first part of my trip is already out in Patreon, so you can listen to that there. All right, everybody, that's all that we have for today. Thanks for listening to Today on Broadway. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. Oddityrading. You can follow me on Instagram @wwmatgrace. Where can people find you?
- [18:09]
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You can find me at. It's Grace Hockey.
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A
All right, everybody, have a wonderful Thursday. We'll be back to talk to you tomorrow.