Behind the Whimsy: Noelle Downing on Overcoming Tragedy and Embracing Life

Summary

Podcast Summary: Brutally Anna - Episode "Behind the Whimsy: Noelle Downing on Overcoming Tragedy and Embracing Life"

Host: Anna Kai
Guest: Noelle Downing
Release Date: April 21, 2025

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Introduction to Noelle Downing

In this poignant episode of Brutally Anna, host Anna Kai welcomes longtime friend and renowned content creator Noelle Downing. Anna sets the stage by highlighting Noelle's vibrant Instagram presence, which exudes joy, whimsy, and body positivity. However, beneath this surface lies a profound narrative of resilience and self-love forged through unimaginable loss and the journey of rebuilding life from the ground up.

Anna Kai ([00:30]):
“While at first glance, Noelle Downing's Instagram evokes a sense of joy, whimsy, and body positivity, what you might not know is that her optimism and self-love come from learning how to find joy after unimaginable loss and the power of learning how to begin again.”

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Noelle’s Early Life and the Impact of Loss

Noelle opens up about her tumultuous childhood, marked by the loss of both parents at a young age. She lost her mother to colon cancer at seven years old and her father to a heart attack at sixteen. These experiences shaped her understanding of death and instilled a deep-seated resilience.

Noelle Downing ([09:14]):
“It’s just different kinds of hard.”

The conversation delves into the emotional turmoil of losing a parent, especially when Noelle was too young to fully comprehend the permanence of death. She recounts the protective measures her family took to shield her and her younger brother from the harsh reality during her mother's illness, leading to fragmented memories.

Noelle Downing ([09:32]):
“I think to some extent my mom didn't want... we were kind of kept in the dark.”

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Moving to New York: Struggles and Determination

At 18, driven by a desire for independence and inspired by a friend's move, Noelle decides to leave college and pursue her dreams in New York City. This decision led her to face significant financial and personal challenges, including living in a cramped utility closet in a studio apartment.

Noelle Downing ([06:49]):
“That’s how I started living in the utility closet.”

Despite these hardships, Noelle’s determination never wavered. She juggled multiple side hustles—from nannies to photography gigs—to sustain herself, illustrating her relentless pursuit of building a personal brand and creative career.

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Building a Creative Career and Finding Love

Noelle’s early foray into content creation began with platforms like Lookbook and eventually blossomed into a thriving Instagram presence. Her entrepreneurial spirit was evident as she navigated the evolving digital landscape, turning her passion for fashion and self-expression into a sustainable career.

Her romantic journey is equally inspiring. Noelle recounts meeting her husband, Danny, at a 21-year-old age. Their relationship began organically in a retail setting where mutual respect and genuine connection laid the foundation for a lasting partnership. Despite initial awkwardness, their bond strengthened over time, culminating in a life together filled with mutual support and shared dreams.

Noelle Downing ([52:54]):
“Now we have a whole baby together, you know?”

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Coping with Grief and Personal Growth

Throughout the episode, Noelle reflects on her coping mechanisms and the psychological impact of her losses. She discusses the concept of memory suppression as a response to trauma, noting her limited recollections from her early years. The emotional weight of losing both parents has led her to develop a strong sense of self and a relentless drive to thrive despite adversity.

Noelle Downing ([53:27]):
“That definitely has, but it feels really nice to hear.”

Anna and Noelle delve into the complexities of grief, exploring how these experiences have influenced Noelle's outlook on life, her creative endeavors, and her approach to relationships. Noelle emphasizes the importance of embracing one's true self, even when it leads to isolation or bullying, which she faced heavily during her school years.

Noelle Downing ([53:27]):
“I was bullied really hard to the point that I was homeschooled.”

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Beliefs and Philosophical Reflections

The discussion shifts to Noelle's beliefs about life, death, and the afterlife. She shares her evolving perspective, influenced by her cultural background and personal experiences, balancing between skepticism and an openness to the unknown. Noelle highlights the importance of finding individual meaning and comfort in the face of existential questions.

Noelle Downing ([44:43]):
“I don’t necessarily 100% believe in anything, but I think that there is something out there.”

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Embracing Optimism Amidst Adversity

Throughout the episode, Noelle exemplifies unwavering optimism. Her ability to maintain a positive outlook, despite significant personal tragedies, serves as a testament to her strength and resilience. She discusses how embracing life’s challenges and remaining true to oneself can lead to reinvention and personal success.

Anna Kai ([54:26]):
“Your optimism is truly... it's infectious and real, you know, it's not put on or anything.”

Noelle concludes by expressing gratitude for her journey, acknowledging that her hardships have shaped her into a stronger, more confident individual. Her story is a powerful reminder that even in the bleakest moments, life offers opportunities for growth and renewal.

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Conclusion and Takeaways

This episode of Brutally Anna offers a deep and heartfelt exploration of Noelle Downing's life, marked by early loss, relentless pursuit of dreams, and an unyielding spirit. Noelle's story underscores the importance of resilience, self-love, and the courage to rebuild one's life after tragedy. Through her experiences, listeners are reminded that even in the face of profound loss, it is possible to find joy, create meaningful connections, and embrace life with optimism.

Key Quotes:

• Noelle Downing ([07:00]): “I just couldn't bring myself to get the Betsy Johnson dress after that.”
• Noelle Downing ([14:10]): “We have to realize that we always had what we needed within ourselves.”
• Anna Kai ([53:39]): “Is that the moment, like, when you look back on your life, are you, like, glad that you were bullied as a kid because you couldn’t be here now?”

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Connect with Noelle Downing

To follow Noelle’s journey and connect with her vibrant content, find her on social media:

• TikTok: @Noel'sHouse

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This episode serves as an inspiring narrative of overcoming adversity, fostering self-love, and the power of starting anew, aligning perfectly with the ethos of Brutally Anna.

Transcript

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[Noelle Downing]

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[Anna Kai]

Welcome to Brutally Anna, a podcast about finding love, losing love, and all the things we think about but don't talk about enough. I'm your host, Anna Kai, AKA maybe both across social media, here to remind you that life can be beautiful even when it's freaking brutal. While at first glance, Noelle Downing's Instagram evokes a sense of joy, whimsy, and body positivity, what you might not know is that her optimism and self love comes from learning how to find joy after unimaginable loss and. And the power of learning how to begin again. Because truly, Noelle's life is a testament to the fact that all is never lost when we realize that we always had what we needed within ourselves. Here in our studio today is Noelle. Thanks so much for joining me.

[Noelle Downing]

I made a cry.

[Anna Kai]

Truly, though, your story is absolutely insane. I'm so excited to dive into it. We've obviously met before, and we've spent lots of time together upstate, but I think your story is so inspirational, and it's just like always a reminder to me that, you know, my problems are probably not that big of a deal.

[Noelle Downing]

That may not be true, and I feel like. But I think sometimes everything in perspective. I feel you on that.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. Okay. So you are what I consider to be, like an OG content creator. You've been in this game for a very long time, very long time. And you've been able to not only sustain your brand, but build it in a very rapidly changing landscape. I mean, you started out when everything was photos and just outfits, and I loved it.

[Noelle Downing]

Shout out to anybody else that loved it too.

[Anna Kai]

What was the. What was the app or program that you were on that you were talking about when we were upstate together? That was not Instagram. Was it lookbook? Was there something.

[Noelle Downing]

Oh, my God. Lookbook. Nu. Yeah. Okay. If anybody's been around long enough for that, then you really know. But it was like a. It was a website where you could upload random looks and, I don't know, you could get gigs on it. Like, I remember there were advertisers.

[Anna Kai]

So you started Noelle's Favorite Things way back, way back when blogging was in its infancy.

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah. Like 11 years ago, maybe 12. Somewhere. Somewhere in there. Definitely over a decade even.

[Anna Kai]

Okay, so that's. You're an OG creator. And what was your side hustle at the time? Like, what were you doing for money while you were trying to build this brand? I mean, did you even know what you were building at the time or were you just like, I don't know.

[Noelle Downing]

I wanted a free dress every once in a while. I always love sharing my life online. Way before anybody was following or tuned in. It was truly like my 200 people that I had met in my life that followed me on Instagram and I originally was like, I didn't have that much money to spend on clothes. I've always loved clothes. I've always been a shopaholic. And I feel like that was a really big. That was a really big thing. And I was like, you know what? Maybe every once in a while I'll get a dress for free. So I was like, let me just start this.

[Anna Kai]

And.

[Noelle Downing]

And at the time I had. I feel like no one's actually asked me this question before, but I had so many side hustles. I was a nanny for a really long time and I. So how I kind of got into influencing was I was a photographer, then turn manager for Jag Lover, who you met on the trip to. For Rachel. And that I did for a long. For like three years. While I still. While I was like trying to like build my own Instagram and still take photos for my own Instagram and blog. Cause that was more of a thing and all of that. And I would do like random photography gigs. I worked retail for a really long time. That's where I met my husband.

[Anna Kai]

I know that story and I'll ask you about it, but that's Shoot your shot, girl.

[Noelle Downing]

Yes, I'm big on that.

[Anna Kai]

So you were like kind of Jack of all trades. Whatever it takes to stay afloat in New York City, basically.

[Noelle Downing]

Literally that's like how I moved to New York. I was like, I will figure it out. I will take any job, I will learn whatever I need to learn for any job. I just wanted to live in New York.

[Anna Kai]

You dropped out of college, right? Yes.

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

At what? At what age? What year?

[Noelle Downing]

When I was 18, I was a freshman in my first semester.

[Anna Kai]

You did not give it back.

[Noelle Downing]

And I literally. I. Cuz I had really. My dad really wanted me to go to college, so I was like, let me just do this for him. And there's a lot of really great programs in Louisiana if you stay in school. In Louisiana. So I was like, let me just stay.

[Anna Kai]

Where were you? Which school?

[Noelle Downing]

@ SLU.

[Anna Kai]

Okay.

[Noelle Downing]

If anybody knows. No shade on SLU. I. The school's awesome, but I just knew it wasn't for me. I've never been a big learner. I've never been a great student. So I just. I knew.

[Anna Kai]

Good at learning, just not in an academic setting. Because you've had to teach yourself a lot, I imagine.

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah. To build a career. I guess that's true. Yeah. And if it's something more creative, I really do like a class on that. Like, I love my photography classes, but anything that was more like actual math or English or. I did not thrive. But then I had a friend that was moving to New York when I was 18, and that just motivated me to, like, fully drop out. I started taking extra hours at the thrift store that I worked at in order to be able to, like, move to New York.

[Anna Kai]

Wild. So you just. And you, I think, had said you lived in a linen closet or.

[Noelle Downing]

I lived in a utility.

[Anna Kai]

A utility. Sorry, not a linen closet. I lived in some sort of closet. What. What is that?

[Noelle Downing]

It's funny because a friend of mine lives in this building now. They don't live. They don't live in the utility closet.

[Anna Kai]

They live in an actual apartment video.

[Noelle Downing]

Like, of a utility closet. And I was like, yes. I was like, yalls is actually bigger than the one that I lived in. I. So I.

[Anna Kai]

After.

[Noelle Downing]

I, like, spent my savings on my first year of living in New York because I had to give my roommate, who I moved to New York with, like, a lot of money up front. Understandable. Her mom, like, signed our lease for us. Like, so I was.

[Anna Kai]

She has no idea if you're ever going to pay her.

[Noelle Downing]

Exactly.

[Anna Kai]

Exactly.

[Noelle Downing]

I'm like, this 18 year. I honestly now, being a parent, I'm like, yeah, I would probably be like, I'm gonna need some money up front. So I was. Once that lease ended, I was freaking out, and I saw every neighborhood as either way out of my price range, which it was. Or I saw it as really dangerous. And I was like, I have to find somewhere to live. So I was on Craigslist. Danger. Dangerous.

[Anna Kai]

That's not dangerous.

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

No.

[Noelle Downing]

And I meet this guy, and, like, not a young guy, like, but not, like, older. Older. He seemed perfectly nice. Perfect. Perfectly normal at first.

[Anna Kai]

That's how it all started.

[Noelle Downing]

And that's how. Yeah. And that's how I started living in the utility closet. Literally had, like, the IKEA cot that you, like, fold down Truly, I had to get rid of, like, everything I owned. Like, truly this.

[Anna Kai]

But he was like, I have this utility closet.

[Noelle Downing]

Wait, it was like, next to a water tank. I'd have to, like, open the door. Was he the Lamb or, like the super or what?

[Anna Kai]

No.

[Noelle Downing]

So it was his one bedroom apartment. It was really a studio. Cause I realized now that the wall was fake. I just didn't. I didn't know that because I didn't know anything about anything. But literally.

[Anna Kai]

So he was renting out his utility closet.

[Noelle Downing]

Yes. For $800, mind you. For $800? Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

Which, by the way, sounds like a lot today in 2024 for a utility closet. So back then, this was what, 11, 12 years ago? Like, that's like, probably equivalent to what, 1500 today?

[Noelle Downing]

I'm like, was it even. I kind of think it was more than that because my. Because I moved somewhere cheaper after that, and it was. I was broke. Broke. But I. Now I'm trying to remember. Cause I honestly think it was a little bit more. Cause I remember when I told my friends, that was kind of like the thing that made me realize that it wasn't an okay situation. And then one night he got really creepy. And that's when I moved out the next day. Oh, okay. But literally in a true, true utility closet with the water tank right next to me.

[Anna Kai]

That is wild. I mean, you were just gonna do what you had to do to make it work.

[Noelle Downing]

Yes.

[Anna Kai]

And I think, you know, I want to talk about your childhood and how kind of unconventional it was because of all the loss you faced. And I feel like part of what I find so inspiring about you is your courage. But it's also kind of like you had to be courageous because you lost both your parents at a very young age. So you lost your mom at 7, to cancer, to colon cancer, and your dad at 16 to a heart attack. So two very different ways. In the sense that, like, you know, you, I imagine, had a chance to say goodbye to your mom and prepare for that. You did not have a chance to do that with your dad. So first I wanna talk about your mom. Because you were seven, which, honestly, there's no good time to lose a parent. Even Now, I'm like, 33. I'm like, I never wanna lose my parents. But when you're seven, I can't think of a worse time. Because you're cognizant. You know, it's like always. I have some friends who lost their parents before they were. They ever knew their parents. And not that it makes it easier in, you know, when they realize that they don't have to know. It's all hard.

[Noelle Downing]

It's just different kinds of hard.

[Anna Kai]

It's just different kinds of hard. Yeah, but you, at 7, know who your mom is. You're attached to her, and you have a concept of death. So what was that process? Like, can you just take me through, like, the diagnosis, like, and the treatment, like, how long that was and when you kind of realized, like, this was it.

[Noelle Downing]

It's weird because I think to some extent my mom didn't want. So I. Cause I don't remember when the diagnosis was or any of that. Cause I think my mom was just hoping that she would make it through. And so I think we were kind of left, like, kept in the dark. Cause I have a younger brother, and I feel like from that they didn't want us to know about her having it until it got, like, so bad that we obviously knew. And I remember. Cause I remember so many things now where if her doctor came, they would be like, let's go play in the pool. And I think it was to kind of distract us from. As a parent now I get it because I was 7, so my brother would have been 5. So, like, I get. I get their thought there. But what's sad and what now as a parent, I think about so much is I don't. I don't know what her voice sounds like at all, actually really needed to dig up. I think my aunt has a few home videos, and I really want to watch them and show them to my daughter. But like, little things like that that I don't know. Like, I don't. Weird, like, tics or mannerisms that she had. Like, things like that that I don't know at all. The main memory that I have is the night that she died. And that's like, the main thing that I remember was, like, telling her goodbye. And she was. So. She was on hospice at that point. Like, it was really. That wasn't her. Like, she wasn't present. And I feel like that. But that's really one of my, like, last. I remember that being the first time that I kind of understood what was actually happening because my aunt woke us up in the middle of the night and was like, we have to go say goodbye to your mom. And that was. That was like, the first time that I think I. I actually realized what was happening.

[Anna Kai]

It, like, really hit you at that point.

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

Because they had done such a good job of really trying to protect you guys, which, you know, I get It. Have you seen the Farewell? That movie with Awkwafina? It's actually. You should watch it because it's got an all Asian cast and it's with awkwafina in it. And it's a story about how, like, this Asian American girl goes back to, like, Asia, and the grandmother is dying of cancer, but, like, nobody wants to tell her because they're all just trying to protect her. It's a little bit different, obviously, but it's similar in the sense that it's like, you know, did it win a bunch of awards? Yes.

[Noelle Downing]

Okay. Yes. Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

But it's very. I mean, it's just really. It's almost like when I need a good cry. I was gonna say when you need a good cry, but it's also like, you lived it, so it would be interesting to hear, like, your perspective on it, because your parents were trying to do what they thought was best for you and your brother. And, like, in retrospect, it probably still was. I mean, would you do that now for your daughter if you were? I mean, I hate to put you in that position because I'm sure you've run through it so many times in your head. But, like, would you let her know? I mean, she's so young right now.

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

So. But like, let's say she gets to an age where she's cognizant. Like, what would. How would you handle it?

[Noelle Downing]

I don't know. It's hard. Cause I think what your hope is is that your kids remember the positive memories. But I also think when you go through that trauma, that. Cause I have a friend who's experienced something similar but different, and they don't remember a lot of their childhood, too. And I think that it is a way that you're memory and body deals with trauma. So I don't know. I don't know.

[Anna Kai]

You don't know.

[Noelle Downing]

But. And I do think of this often, and I'm just. Because it's like a looming. Almost like a looming timeline in my mind.

[Anna Kai]

Right.

[Noelle Downing]

And something that you've written.

[Anna Kai]

You only get past seven is what you feel like. Exactly.

[Noelle Downing]

I'm always like, oh, my gosh. Like, I just imagine I would assume that my mom was diagnosed, I think, a year and a half before I. I'm pretty sure I've talked to my.

[Anna Kai]

Was it early enough that they thought, did she go through chemo? Because I know they catch it late enough or too late. They don't even try chemo.

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah, she did go through chemo. She had a. I Always remember this too because I didn't understand as a kid she had a like the colon bag. I can. Oh, the.

[Anna Kai]

Yes, I know what you're talking about.

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah. And coloscopy bag. Yes. Yeah, yeah. So she went through like a lot of different things hoping that. I remember my dad just trying. Got to the point where he was trying all kinds of weird stuff and I. And I mainly know that from like family. Family members telling me and. But I don't. It's. It's such a hard. I think it depends as a mom what would be more important to me and honestly I probably would do the same thing where I, I would want her to. To cherish like the more and hopefully remember more positive memories.

[Anna Kai]

Well, you want to preserve the joy for as long as you can because it's like if especially for your mom, I'm sure she got to a point where she's like, I know this is, this is the end for me and I just. It's not going to make it hurt any less so I might as well delay it.

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

You know, almost, I think. I mean, do you remember like what that initial, like six months after your mom passed was? Like, how do you even cope as a 7 year old? Like how you know what was.

[Noelle Downing]

I don't remember.

[Anna Kai]

You don't remember any of it?

[Noelle Downing]

Anything? I don't even remember like her funeral. I remember nothing.

[Anna Kai]

I was like wild. That is wild.

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah. That's why a lot of people I know have all these like little memories from their childhood or like what little. I truly have under seven. I for sure have nothing. Around nine, I start kind of like remembering things again. But yeah, I don't. It's like I forget that. It's weird until I'm talking to somebody about it because.

[Anna Kai]

Because you would think that the funeral is like such a traumatic like experience that you would imprint on your like and you just. Your body was.

[Noelle Downing]

I remember one thing about it which was that they. One of my mom's friends gave a speech and I remember this because it's like tied to. It was meant for me to remember is that every time the wind blows that's your mom like blowing you kisses. And that like, that's amazing. I know I'm like, I'm not gonna cry. But that always really struck me and that's one of the only things that I remember from the whole like, I don't. She was also cremated to like. That is a big.

[Anna Kai]

Did you guys spread her ashes as a family in special places.

[Noelle Downing]

We. The My. So my Her. This is. This is dark. We're gonna go dark. My. Her dying wish was actually for us to spread her ashes around the yard so that she would be with us when we were, like, playing outside. And, like, her. Her biggest thing in life that she wanted to do was have kids. No. Well, the dark thing is my dad never did it.

[Anna Kai]

Oh, God.

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that my dad really, like, could have used therapy and never faced, like, because my. So my dad's first wife also died of cancer. Breast cancer. So I feel like he just. Now, as an adult, I appreciate the hardship that my dad went through on that level in such a way that I, you know, as a kid, did not understand at all. And so he never did that. So I finally. We did when I was, like, 16 or. No, it was after my dad had passed away, so, yeah, it was. I think I was 17. And we finally spread them in the yard and that. And I always. The house has now been sold, and I always, like, look when it's for sale to be like. Because both my parents both died in that house. And I'm always like, it's in Louisiana. Like, it would not ever make sense for me to get it. But, like, I'm always like, maybe I should. Like, it's just weird. But. But no, he never. I always say to Danny, my husband, I'm like, if. If I have a wish like, that. You are doing it. Yeah. We are not. It's. I just. I.

[Anna Kai]

But he eventually did it.

[Noelle Downing]

No, you.

[Anna Kai]

You.

[Noelle Downing]

Because he did it.

[Anna Kai]

You did it.

[Noelle Downing]

But her whole thing was like, that she. I mean, like, she wanted to, like, be with us in the arm when we were playing as kids, so that. It was as if she was like, you know, I get the sentiment, but.

[Anna Kai]

Right. You know, he was dealing with a lot. Well, he was.

[Noelle Downing]

As an adult. I now, like, do give him a look.

[Anna Kai]

He didn't, like, throw away her ashes or anything. It's like they were still there in the house.

[Noelle Downing]

Right.

[Anna Kai]

With you guys. It's just he. He couldn't. I don't know what it was, but. Yeah, I'm sure he could have used therapy after.

[Noelle Downing]

No, no, I get it, too. It's like, in one way, she's. In one way, she's there. Whereas, like, if you're getting rid of them.

[Anna Kai]

Oh, oh, you think that's what it was? That he didn't want to let go of, like, that physical thing?

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah, maybe.

[Anna Kai]

That's really tough. I mean, and I can't imagine, like. I can't imagine losing one Spouse. And I'm sure you can't. Cause, like, we're both married, and it's like, can you imagine doing life without your husband but, like, a second time? Cause, you know, it's this idea. It's like, oh, lightning never strikes twice. Well, sometimes it does. Sometimes it does, you know, and that's really, really tough. Do you. I mean, I love that idea of, like, you know, your mom is in the wind, right? And in some ways, maybe her ashes are everywhere now because of the wind. I mean, you were so young, you don't have any memories of her. But is there anything that people have told you about your mom or any lesson that you remember taking from her, whether it was from her directly or after the fact, once you were old enough to process what had happened to you at such a young age?

[Noelle Downing]

I definitely. So my mom was an art teacher and a dance teacher, and definitely my, like, creative side of me, I for sure get from her. But there's. That's the thing, unfortunately. There's no real. There's no real thing that I. I think. I think on some level, though, I do get my confidence from her. I think that's just, like, inherently, like, a thing in my DNA that I got from her. She was really into pageants and things like that, and that was like, a big part of her. In Louisiana, there's this big festival called the Strawberry Festival, and she was, like the queen of it and helped run the board for it and all this stuff and was really into it. And I feel like just that level of confidence that she had, I got from her. But there's no. I wish that there was. And sometimes I like, there's little things like, do you know what Ferdinand the Bull like, it's like a children's book.

[Anna Kai]

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[Anna Kai]

I. I've heard of it. I don't know.

[Noelle Downing]

Okay, that was like her favorite children's book and I have her original copy of it. And now for my daughter we have not. I still have the original to save for her but I got her just a board book version of it so that it does the old one doesn't get destroyed. And little things like that is a way that I try to kind of like keep. Cause I think the sentiment there was important to her and so I try to like continue little things like that. There's no. Like this is like a. This. It's a thing that I think about because I wish there was. There was something, but there's not, I think.

[Anna Kai]

And that's a result of her passing away when you were so young. You know, it's like you're really. You don't. I don't know. At 7, if you have the power to like self actualize and reflect and everything, you're just so moment to moment and again they kept it hidden from you for a really long time. Which sounds like a good idea actually because you Would have just been dreading it if not. And so that makes sense. So your dad passed away when you were 16. Obviously, you're a lot older at that stage, and that was very sudden.

[Noelle Downing]

Yes.

[Anna Kai]

And I think I remember seeing a video of you where you said you spent the last day with him, like, shopping for Betsey Johnson dresses.

[Noelle Downing]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

So then what was your last day with him?

[Noelle Downing]

My last day. So I was 16, obviously, like, very boy obsessed at this time of my life, and I really, really. A Betsey Johnson dress.

[Anna Kai]

That's very on brand, by the way. Still very much on brand for you.

[Noelle Downing]

I used to make, like, collages of things that I wanted.

[Anna Kai]

Have you ever had a partnership with Betsey Johnson?

[Noelle Downing]

No, but I was on a. Well, I'll wait to say this to the end of the story, but I was obsessed with them, and I did not live in a household where they were just buying me a Betsy Johnson dress. So we were on ebay trying to find Betsy Johnson dresses, and we had, like, looked at that. And I do hold, like, a level of guilt because we didn't. We didn't, like, order the dress that night because I wanted to, like, go get on the phone with my boyfriend. But that was the last thing that we did together was, like, do. I ended up wearing a friend's hand me down to prom, actually, because I didn't. I, like, couldn't. I couldn't bring myself to get the Betsy Johnson dress after that. But I was on a flight, like, five years ago, and Betsy Johnson was on the flight, and I, like, went up to her at the end and was like, I just want you to know that, like, the last thing I did with my dad was like, look for your dresses, because I was gonna wear one to prom. And, like, he died later that night. And I just. I don't know. It's. It sounds sad, but it really isn't, because it was nice that we had that, like, last thing. It was nice to remember something that my dad really wanted to do for me because we didn't connect on a lot of things, and we were really, really different and butt heads a lot. So the fact that we have this memory of something that we actually. I don't know, it's like, a parent moment that he wanted to, like, give to me is nice, and I think he would feel that way, too.

[Anna Kai]

Well, it's so great that, like, your last moment with him and your last memory wasn't an argument or anything. Especially at 16, you're so volatile. Like, you know, it sounds like you butted heads on a lot of things. I mean, it could have ended very differently. It could have been like, hey, I wanted this Betsey Johnson dress, and he wouldn't buy it for me. And he told me, you know, we don't have the money.

[Noelle Downing]

Like, well, it did go like that. The compromise was the ebay version, but. And I was totally happy with that. I didn't care. But I was like, yeah, but we did. Yeah. Because even then, I was like, I'm not going to college. And my dad was like, you are going to college.

[Anna Kai]

So, hey, you know what? You. You gave it a shot, right?

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

And you did it for him. So he died later that night. Not the next day?

[Noelle Downing]

No, later that night. It was like, 1am what happened?

[Anna Kai]

Like, how did you find out?

[Noelle Downing]

And so he was going. Actually, it must have been earlier than 1am Because I feel like he would go to bed around midnight, and he was going to bed. He was like a night owl. Like me, I always am like, I know where I get it from because I try so hard to go to bed early, and I suck at it.

[Anna Kai]

But I'm the same. I'm like. After midnight is always like. It's like witching hour for me.

[Noelle Downing]

It's so bad. I really. I. Now, being a parent, I'm pretty good about it. But he was going to bed, and he just fell to the ground. And he was remarried to my stepmom at this point.

[Anna Kai]

Okay.

[Noelle Downing]

And he fell to the ground. And my stepmom thought that he was, like, kind of being, like, playful, like, yeah, like, whatever. And she was like, jim, get up. Get up. And. And he, like, wasn't getting up. And that's when she started, like, frantically screaming. And I didn't realize what was happening either, because I had. I had, like, fallen asleep in my clothes. Like, literally from the day before. I was in running clothes. And I. And I had the phone because it was, like, landline. We didn't really have cell phones. And she's, like, freaking out, and it's, like, taking me a minute to, like, I sleep really deep. Just taking me a minute to process what's happening. I am like. I thought someone broke into her house. That was, like, my first instinct because we had this all glass room in the back of our house, and it was really creepy. Now, as an adult, like, it's really cool, but also creepy because there were no curtains. And I was just like, I don't. I thought there was. I thought there was, like, an intruder in the house. And I hadn't grabbed the phone and I like, start one because we. We were at the top of the stairs, so. Because there was like, two little levels. And so I'm upstairs and I finally realized that she's saying like, my dad's on the ground. My dad's on the ground. So I am like. She's like, phone 91 1. It's like, oh. It was as if she's like, just. I think she was probably saying sentences, but that's how my mind remembers it is like PC like that, right? And I finally went and got my phone. And then I remember I, like, hauled butt down to the driveway because we lived like, I'm from, like, the country. And the house was, like, really set back, so I had to, like, run to the end of the road and there was a. Our mailbox would get, like, hit with baseball bats all the time. Very like, teenagers love to do that in the south. And so our address wasn't like that visible. So I ran into the middle of the street so that when the ambulance showed up, I could, like, flag them into our driveway. And my dad was a big dude. He. He's like 6 foot 4. And so at first they couldn't even, like, lift him because there was too many. For the longest time, I had a lot of guilt because I was a lifeguard and I did not perform. I didn't even think of it, like, to perform CPR or anything on him. I ended up later on meeting randomly, like, I feel like this was, like, meant to be. Whoever did, like, the. When they do, like, the body, where they just, like, check the body.

[Anna Kai]

The autopsy.

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah, yeah. Whoever did the autopsy for, like, confirmation of cause of death. And she said that the level of, like, there was. There was something she was able to, like, see that meant that he had, like, an immediate heart attack. So she was. She was like, there's nothing that you could have done. Like, the. The arteries were so clogged that that was like, an immediate heart attack that he immediately, like, there wasn't really lim. But. But then I remember, like, that's almost.

[Anna Kai]

Like coming back and being like, don't worry, Noel.

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah.

[Noelle Downing]

No, Yeah. I remember whenever this woman told me this, I was like, it was so random because I happened to be, like, at the police station for this random thing and meeting this woman. And I was just like, oh, my God. Because I. Because I felt so bad for so long, but. But yeah. And then I remember calling my friends who. Her mom was a nurse, and they met them at the hospital just to make sure. I don't know. She just wanted to go there and. And friends that I'm still friends with to this day and. Yeah. And then I remember my stepmom coming home and I took care of my little brother and sister at the time who were like 3 and 5 because, you know, she's. She had to go to the hospital. Yeah. So watching them, like, while she was at the hospital, and I think, like, for me, I just knew what it felt like to be them. And I. And I. And I was trying to dist Track them too. Like, I was, I was like, let's watch tv. Like, let's.

[Anna Kai]

Like, that's so tough because you're trying to deal with your own.

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

Anxieties and fears. Because at this point, did they think he was gonna make it?

[Noelle Downing]

No. No, they like, knew, like almost like within the hour of him going. Like, they. I think they knew when he got there that, like, there was nothing that they could do.

[Anna Kai]

Okay, so you're trying to parent while also being a parent to yourself.

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah, Yeah. I didn't cry for. For like a while. Like, I remember it was a few days because I think I was so.

[Anna Kai]

Like, it's shock, it's self preservation almost.

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah. I think my stepmom was like falling apart. So I feel like I understandably, like no shade. And I feel like for my little brother and sister, I don't know, I just, like, I always felt this like, looming weird feeling too, that like something that I. That something still. I'm like not even a superstitious person like this, but I always felt like I had another hardship that like I had to experience Interesting. Like in my life.

[Anna Kai]

So it's almost like you weren't that surprised in a way.

[Noelle Downing]

Like, I know that sounds so weird and I've said this before and there, There are people out there who are like, I know what you mean. And like that have lost like a second parent too. And they're like, I felt the same way, but I just felt like there was something else.

[Anna Kai]

Do you feel like that now?

[Noelle Downing]

No.

[Anna Kai]

Okay, good. I was like, we don't need any more hardships.

[Noelle Downing]

I feel like that. I don't know. It was just a weird feeling.

[Anna Kai]

Do you remember? So you were a lot older, obviously, when your dad passed. I mean, I think one of the biggest things you took away from him was that he wanted you to go to college. So you did.

[Noelle Downing]

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

Do you think if he didn't pass away, you wouldn't have gone to college at all? He wouldn't have even given it a shot.

[Noelle Downing]

I don't know. It's interesting cause I talk about with my friends how much of our decisions understandably are reflected into what your parents want you to do. And I really have none of that. That's why I have like so little shame about like, what I post online or like what I do online. What I like.

[Anna Kai]

Nobody's telling you, hey, you shouldn't be doing that.

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like it's so weird because I don't know, I don't know another way because I didn't really have. That's the way that it was for me. So I think I would. I mean, I think to some extent I probably, I maybe would have tried to give college a chance. I don't know. It's really hard in Louisiana. The way that that tops is. Is set up is like, if you did make good grades and you want to try to go to school in Louisiana, what's tops? It's like a. Not a scholarship, but it's like a financial aid for school, essentially. But only if you stay in schools in Louisiana.

[Anna Kai]

Okay.

[Noelle Downing]

If I'm messing that up, nobody judged me. This is a safe space. But if I remember correctly, that is basically it's an incentive to keep people in school in Louisiana to obviously help, you know, build jobs for people in Louisiana. And it's a great program for a lot of people.

[Anna Kai]

And I got a very subsidized education.

[Noelle Downing]

Yes. So I was like, I can't. I think I would regret not trying this and you know, not giving it a try.

[Anna Kai]

You did it, you know, you knew it wasn't for you.

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah. I still maybe would have moved to New York when I was 18. I don't know. Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

Who knows?

[Noelle Downing]

I'm like, yeah, I definitely had rebel energy in that way. I didn't do anything crazy, but I had like, I know what I want.

[Anna Kai]

You're kind of like a rebel in the best way. You were not self destructive. You know, you were very much like, I want better. But like, I want better in my way, not the way like society tells me.

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah. I was very committed to like the vision that I wanted for my life.

[Anna Kai]

Were you raised with any sort of religion or are you spiritual or like, what do you believe? Cause you've had to face so much death in your life at such a young age. I. We talked about this briefly when I met you. I did not have to think about death until last year. I never lost anybody.

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

And so I'm curious as to like, what your Thoughts on what happens after we die are.

[Noelle Downing]

I. I know. I'm trying to remember what you told me.

[Anna Kai]

I. So, you know, I was not raised with religion.

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah. And.

[Anna Kai]

And after my grandfather passed last year, I was like, what do I believe in? I don't believe. I knew I was not an atheist. I was like, this is not it. And also, some crazy things happen afterwards that I was like, I just don't feel like anything is a coincidence. Right. And Chinese people believe right after, like, a person passes. Like, you can't kill any living thing that comes into your house.

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

I think it's like, two weeks, because that's like the departed. And I remember he died in January in the middle. And it's Connecticut. It's January. It's cold as hell. And the night he died, I remember I was. It was again, I was, like, in shock, because even though we knew it was coming, he was 95, so it wasn't like your parents, you know, it wasn't like, oh, my gosh, like, before their time. It's like, we knew he was in failing health. And I was like, I'm gonna be okay. I was like. I actually didn't really cry. I was like, oh, this is like, I accept this. You know, he died the way we all hope to die. Right? Peacefully, surrounded by loved ones at 95.

[Noelle Downing]

Like, yeah, but your first. I feel like your first, like, large death in your life. You. It's the first time that you realize people aren't invincible, that you think are invincible.

[Anna Kai]

And it's really sobering. And it's like. You know, I think I was so naive to think that I was just, like, prepared to handle that. Cause nothing prepares you for it until you, like, face it. But I remember that night, my husband gets home from work, and he, like, takes the dog out, and he comes in, and there's, like, this moth that flies into the. I'm like, it's fucking January. I was like, what the fuck is this mall? And it flew somewhere, and I couldn't even get it. And I was so annoyed because I was like, my grandpa just died, and I hate bugs. I'm, like, so terrified.

[Noelle Downing]

I hate bugs, too.

[Anna Kai]

And you grew up in the sticks. I'm like, you should.

[Noelle Downing]

You should be accustomed to. I know. I'm trying to be less hateful towards bugs. Oh, my God.

[Anna Kai]

They creep me out so badly. And I'm like, I have such a phobia of them. It's so irrational. People are like, you're so much bigger.

[Noelle Downing]

No, I'm the Same. I'm right there with you. I wish I wasn't.

[Anna Kai]

Meanwhile, you're wearing, like, two, like, massive butterflies.

[Noelle Downing]

Butterflies, they. I like them. And the worms in my garden, I like them too.

[Anna Kai]

Oh, okay. I'm not even a butterfly ladybug person. They even creep me out. But. So this moth flies in and I'm like, whatever. I was like, this is so annoying. It flies somewhere. And then later on I learned. I was like, oh, like, that's like something that, like, you know, superstitious, whatever Chinese people believe. And I was like, huh? Okay. So, like, notate that. And then, you know, like, in a lot of religions, like, the 40 days after somebody passes, it's like, you know, considered the morning phase. Or like, you know, their spirit, like, still hangs out and is kind of with us in some ways, finishing up unfinished business. And I just remember, like, the first 40 days of, you know, after he passed, I struggled so hard. I was like, what is the meaning of life if we're all just here to watch everyone we love die? I just couldn't. I couldn't grasp it. Because the only grief and the only loss I'd faced up until that point was, like, having some guy dump me, right? And even I was thinking about it, I was like, I can get over that. Because I knew there was something after, but the finality of death was so tough. And I just kept asking for a sign. I was like, I just want a sign that he's still here. You know, I want a sign. I was like. And I had heard all these, you know, one of my neighbors who really believes in, like, you know, has, like, a medium, and it's, like, very spiritual. And she was like, you know, when my dad passed, like, I asked for a sign in the form. This sounds crazy, but, like, you know, whatever crazier things have happened. She was like, I asked for a sign in the form of a kangaroo, which is bizarre. I was like, I don't know why you would ask for. I was like, okay. And she was like.

[Noelle Downing]

And you're like, I'm testing this out.

[Anna Kai]

I know, right? It. I'm in love with my best friend's ex. My sister is having an affair. I think my therapist is emotionally unavailable. Did my mom just join a cult? These are just a few of the real life dilemmas we've helped our listeners sort through on our podcast, Unsolicited Advice. I'm Ashley. And I'm Taryn. Each week on Unsolicited Advice, we unpack our listeners dilemmas on air and give our Unfiltered at advice. So if you could use some help handling modern dating, workplace tension, family drama, and all of life's other curveballs, we're here to help. We may not be professionals, but we're the next best thing. Plus, we won't charge you a co pay. So whether you need some guidance of your own or just want to eavesdrop on other people's juicy stories, tune into unsolicited advice every Monday, wherever you get your podcasts. And she was like. And then the next day, my friend was like, she rescued dogs. She was like, oh, I just got these two dogs and they're siblings and their names are Kanga and Rue. Which is like, so specific that I was like. At first she's telling me this. I was like, no way. And then I was like, that is so specific. It's almost like, how can that be a coincidence? So I kept asking for a sign. I was like, show up to me as a turtle. And like, no turtle. Okay. I was like. And he really loved. I was like, trying to pick something that. I think kangaroo had some significance to her dad.

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

And my grandfather really liked to read newspapers. So I was like, you know, I live in the sticks of Connecticut. I was like, show me a newspaper flying around. I was like, I just. And I. I didn't get it. You know, I was like. And I was so disappointed. But I remember, you know, my. My parents and my grandparents, like, lived through the communist revolution in China, which is a very. That's why there's no religion from people who, like, grew up in that era. Because the, you know, communist government wiped out any sort of belief other than the government. Right, yeah. So they were very pragmatic people as a result. And I remember in that 40 day period, I grew by half a million Instagram followers in 40 days. Literally. Yes. Half. Like, I was at 200 some thousand.

[Noelle Downing]

This is probably when I. When I saw you for the first time, actually, because I've seen tons of your videos go viral.

[Anna Kai]

It was insane. I never. And it was not. I mean, it was like sort of like videos were going viral, but it wasn't like, abundantly clear why it was happening. It was just 20,000 almost every day for 40 days. And on the 41st day it, like, stopped. And looking back on it now and then, I remember when it stopped, I was like, how many days did this happen? It was right after he passed away. And on the 41st day, it, like, went back to, like, normal growth. And I was like. And then I started researching It. I was like, I wonder if my grandpa was like. And now I think he was like, anna, I'm not gonna fucking send you a damn newspaper on your walk in the neighborhood. That's so not. He was always very into, like, you know, he told my dad, go to America. You know, there's more opportunity there. He was always proud of me for, like, making it in New York. So I feel like that was him being like, this is my parting gift. It's gonna be way more useful than sending you some dumb ass turtle or like, a newspaper because it's never happened again.

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

And it's so. I mean, like, you know, I mean, you've been on Instagram forever. That's like, unheard of.

[Noelle Downing]

Like, I. When it happens, you're like, how. How can I do this again?

[Anna Kai]

How can I do it? And it's like, I've never been able to replicate it.

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

You know, and it's like every. You know, I've grown since then, but it's. It's always been, like, pretty normal and, like, explicable, you know, Whereas, like, this is so all of that is to say that, like, I now believe in something and there's. I. But I think of it in a very scientific way. Like, there's an NYU doctor, Sam Parnia, which we had talked about, who talks about. Who talks about possibly. Cause he specializes in bringing people back from the dead, so to speak. Not in, like a spiritual way, but, like, when people have heart attacks, they can be technically dead and brought back to life if, you know, you catch it within a certain amount of time. And he has said, through numerous patients of his, that everyone. A lot of people come back and say that they were still conscious even when they were technically dead. And they, like, have similar experiences where they were, like, viewing themselves from, like a third party perspective, and they could recount all of the things that the doctors were doing to try and save their life. And so he's like, you know, his hypothesis is. He's like, you know, we can't prove it right now, but it's like, maybe our physical experience on this earth is not so much like, it's like we're watching a tv, and when you're watching a tv, you see characters and, you know, you see landscapes and you see all these things, and when you turn the TV off, everything goes away. But that doesn't mean that all those people and all those scenes go away. They just. The TV's off. The, you know, the channel in which we're experiencing it is turned off, like, so I always thought, like, that was a really great source of comfort to me when I heard that, because a. It explains a lot of things. I think, you know, if you believe in the afterlife, and if you don't, that is totally fine. I am not here to be like, you need to believe, you know, you. But I'm so curious. What do you think? What?

[Noelle Downing]

No. So I grew up, like, with a super Louisiana religious upbringing. I've been baptized by three different religions. And I. And I feel like that's actually something that people don't really know about me is that I had a. I. I went to church every Wednesday night and then every Sunday morning and every Sunday night. Like, I was really, like, I was really a church girly. And then I. Somewhere. And I think a part of that was because that. That was, like, my dad's way that he wanted it to be, and we didn't really have a choice, so it was like, we had to be. But I definitely was very religious. And then I. After he passed away, I think that I just. I. I kind of stopped going to church as much because I felt more stressed out by the outreach. As crappy as that sounds like, I feel like I just got really overwhelmed. I get like, that where I get really overwhelmed if people are trying to, like, just be too emotional to me at one time. I, like, do this. I just, like, run away. And I feel like that was definitely my vibe. But I. I'm now somewhere along the lines of, like, what you're saying. Like, I. I don't necessarily 100% believe in anything, but I think that there is there. There. I'm like, a very. I'm like, life would be too depressing to be, like, there's nothing, you know, else that happens, but I feel like there has to be at the same time, the, like, you know, because life is too intricate. Like, I don't know. I'm always just like.

[Anna Kai]

I'm like, how is this an accident? I don't know. I don't. Yeah, I don't feel like that. And I think, yeah, you're right. It's like, I find it too depressing, but I also just find it like. Like, again, I don't really believe in coincidences anymore because it's like, so. So many things in my life have been inexplicable. Like, I also remember, you know, and my parents are pretty. Like, if they're not atheists, they're pretty agnostic. But even my dad has said, you know, his. His mom passed away very suddenly when he was, I think, in his early 20s. She died in a car accident. And his aunt.

[Noelle Downing]

So In China.

[Anna Kai]

In China, yeah. So his aunt at the time was living in Japan. And, you know, this was a long time ago, so there was no people had phones, but not everybody. And so the way they communicated that she was passing is that through a letter, like a messenger service, you know, from China to Japan. So he said that his aunt had always said, you know, a couple hours before she got word that my grandmother passed away, she was in our kitchen inside, right. And just like a random feather flew down from somewhere, and it was just so. And she was like, interesting. And then she got the letter. And back then, feathers were what you would put on letters in Asia to signify that it was really important and really urgent. And so that's so creepy to me. How is that a coincidence? I mean, like, I think you can explain everything away to being like, that's a coincidence. That's a coincidence. Or you could just believe in, like, magic. And like, I know that sounds crazy, but like. Like, I do, you know, And I think it's like, I can't explain it, but it's interesting. It seems like you've. You wouldn't consider yourself religious.

[Noelle Downing]

No, but I would be open to, like, the kind of, like the kind of beliefs that you're saying too. I think that. I don't know, I'm also just like. I feel like nothing in. I feel like there's different paths that all will equal. Something similar, I guess, is like my.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah, I don't believe in like one God or whatever, but I believe that, like, there's something out there. And I believe that we're too stupid to know what it is, honestly.

[Noelle Downing]

Yeah, I think it's like, inconceivable.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah, exactly. It's like you can't. It's like you can't explain it to us because we don't have. I know, right?

[Noelle Downing]

I tend to make up words a lot. I get it. I always say it's the lack of college.

[Anna Kai]

You know what? No, I would have never guessed. So. But you know what's so interesting is that you lost a huge part of your family at such a young age, but then you created a family very quick. I mean, you met your current husband and your only husband. I don't mean to say that, like, you know, your ex husband, Danny, at a very young age.

[Noelle Downing]

I was newly 21.

[Anna Kai]

Right.

[Noelle Downing]

Just crazy. Yeah, I. Yeah. I was working at a store in Williamsburg and he. He came in, he was shopping for. He he wasn't really shopping for anything. His friend had just told him that they had someone coming at the apartment to do work and, like, clean up, and they were like, so you have to go for the day and do stuff. And his friend wrote down, like, a list of two stores for him to go to. To. So he went to. One of them was closed down. And then he went to the store that I worked at, and we were. We were. I mean, I was just like. I was. I. I had top sales for a really long time. I was very good at retail, right? And I really liked working there. It was a cool store. Most things were made in Greenpoint, and I just really, like, believed in what they did. And so when he's, like, trying this shirt on, I think it was a little too big or too small. And I was like, oh, I have the size that you need in the back. Like, let me get it. And he tried it on, and I was like, that looks so cute on you. And he clearly just was not used to, like, compliments like that, right? And I didn't even. I wasn't even necessarily trying to be flirty. I was. You know, it did. It looks good. And that's. I was really just being like, it looks great on you, right? And then whenever he was checking out and bought the shirt, mind you, now I know he had, like, no money to buy the shirt, and he shouldn't have been buying the shirt, but he was like, you were so nice and so helpful. So I was gonna buy the shirt. So he's checking on buying the shirt, and I'm like.

[Anna Kai]

He's like, I didn't want to be broke in front of you.

[Noelle Downing]

No, literally, like, he's just racking up a credit card debt, and I'm like, oh, my God. I had no idea. And I. And he is buying the shirt, and I start noticing, like, well, I'm like, I'm gonna need a roommate. Like, he's telling me he just moved to New York two weeks before, and I'm like, oh, my gosh. I'm actually gonna have one of my roommates moving out. Like, if you want, like, a cheap place, I live in Bed Stuy. Like, if you want to come check it out. Like, blah, blah, blah.

[Anna Kai]

Oh, you didn't just offer him your number. You, here. Come live with me.

[Noelle Downing]

I'm literally like, come live with me. And then midway through, I start being like. I'm like, what am I? Like, I'm like, this guy clear. Like, something's happening. Like, we're like, vibing. Here. Why? And it's like, word vomit. I can't. I'm like, just vom. I can't help it. I keep saying the roommate stuff, and then I'm like, oh, my gosh, why am I doing this? What am I doing? And so I'm like, I'm just gonna give you my number, like, if you want to check out the place or, like, if you need anything, like, let me know, like, blah, blah, blah. And I give it to him, and he gets so awkward when I give him my number, and he's like. To point where I couldn't tell if he was happy about it. Or he was like, you're like, are.

[Anna Kai]

You, like, actually turned off?

[Noelle Downing]

I was like, okay. But he. He gets really awkward and. And I. I. I was. I was still even, like, so confident then. So I. I was like, whatever. It. Whatever happens, happens. And it's whatever. And so I'm like, okay, like, thank you so much, like, blah, blah, blah. But then the customer that was in the store at the time, which is also crazy. I was supposed to be working with someone that day. Usually there's two people, like, at this shift at the store because it's a small store, and she ended up getting sick that morning, and after an hour in, was like, is it okay if I just leave? Like, are you cool to be on your own? And they were fine with it. So you. And she was, like, a very big personality. So I don't think this whole interaction would have gone down anything like it did if that hadn't have happened, because she was really flirty, too. It would have just been, like, a really confusing interaction, I think. Right, right.

[Anna Kai]

And you probably wouldn't have interacted with him as much if she was right.

[Noelle Downing]

No, no, no, no. This was. She was like, a cool girl. She's still so cool. So been very different. Right. And then the customer that was there in the store at the time was like, oh, my gosh, you guys were flirting with each other. Like, she was like, oh, she could sense the chemistry. Yeah, exactly. So I was like, okay. Like, maybe I didn't read that right. And then I. Later that night, he texted me and was like, do you want to get a drink tonight or, like, sometime soon? And then I remember nothing ever, like, works out perfectly. It all takes effort to some extent. Because then I was like, I'm going to be with all my friends tonight if you actually want to come meet us at this bar. And he, like, didn't come because he was feeling, like, really insecure, and he Thought that I was the kind of girl that would be just have, like, a bunch of dude friends, which I kind of get. Like, why he thought that, I guess. But I wasn't. I was with mainly women and. And like, their boyfriends.

[Anna Kai]

To be fair, he did ask you on a date and you invited. No, I know him. To hang out with a group of friends, which feels like you're trying to. Friend zone.

[Noelle Downing]

No, exactly. Exactly. I was like, just young and dumb and did not. The funny thing is that didn't even occur to me how weird that was until later in adulthood. And I was like, yeah, that was not cool. But I. I. Yeah, I think that's like, the age difference.

[Anna Kai]

You were like, 21.

[Noelle Downing]

21. And he was like, 23 or about to be 24. And that really. That really does. Like, there's like, a difference there. Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

Oh, there is.

[Noelle Downing]

Where you go on, like, an actual date, or you do, like, friend hangs and it's like, you know, and you finally.

[Anna Kai]

And you, like, drunkenly hook up, like, after everybody has left.

[Noelle Downing]

And, like, that's how you're 21. You finally start, like, phasing out of that, like, that moment. And. And, yeah, and then. Yeah, then we went up. But then we finally went on a first date where it was just us. And. And, yeah, and then he kissed me in the snow and I took the train home.

[Anna Kai]

And has it been smooth sailing since then?

[Noelle Downing]

Oh, def. Not when you. When you start dating when you're 21 and fall in love when you're 21, it is. Those young years are hard. Hard. So hard. But no, it's like we've. We grew up together, but what's so.

[Anna Kai]

Cool is that you guys grew up together and grew together where so many people grow apart. Like, I look at the people I dated when I was 21, I was like, thank God I'm not with you, because we're such different people now. And it's not to say like, hey, like, you're a bad person, or, I was a bad person. Although I definitely was the bad person in some relationships, you know?

[Noelle Downing]

But it's like, okay, my jacket's wet.

[Anna Kai]

We're just. We love it. She's coming out. So I think, you know, that's a perfect example of just like. You just never know what people are gonna say, right? You don't know what people are thinking. You were like, maybe he's not into me. You know, you can't read minds. And so it's almost.

[Noelle Downing]

And what do you have losing, like, if I never saw this guy again, it would not matter. You know what I mean? So I'm like, I might as well shoot my shot.

[Anna Kai]

I know. And it's.

[Noelle Downing]

Now we have a whole baby together, you know? Like, you never know.

[Anna Kai]

You have a house upstage. I mean, you have a life together. I guess my question is, is that, like, I think, look, rejection and success are two sides of the same coin, and the people who find success are the ones who've been able to use their rejection to fuel them towards the next step. You were obviously not rejected by Dani, but you've probably faced, My guess is a lot of rejection in your life.

[Noelle Downing]

I was bullied really hard to the point that I was homeschooled.

[Anna Kai]

That is so.

[Noelle Downing]

That definitely has, like, fueled my, like, my force to want to be. Thrive. To want to thrive at times.

[Anna Kai]

Do you think that's the moment, like, your upbringing is why you're. Because I look at you, I'm like, oh, my God, this girl's so confident. Like, she's never felt out of place in her life, you know? And is it because that's so nice?

[Noelle Downing]

I definitely have, but it feels really nice to hear.

[Anna Kai]

Is that the moment, like, when you look back on your life, are you, like, glad that you were bullied as a kid because you couldn't be here now?

[Noelle Downing]

I definitely don't. Like, I'm. I'm definitely just glad that I was true to who I was. If that meant being bullied, I was like, yeah, I was a little dork. And, like, I'm glad that I am. That's a big part of who I am now. I just didn't appreciate that that's a part of what made me me at the time. But I. I always say to people, because I'm like, that's my. Whenever I say, like, you know, that both my parents passed away, or if someone asked about my parents and. Or asked about something having to do with my upbringing, that's, like, kind of sad. I'm always like, that's my story. Like, you know, it's okay. Like, just that's. That led me to the path that I'm at now, and I. And I love the path I'm at now.

[Anna Kai]

I love that. And, like, how accepting you are of your own story and how you have so much grace, especially given everything you've been through. I'm like, again, what am I. What am I freaking out about? Like, this is everything you've been through is just so inspiring. So thank you.

[Noelle Downing]

You know, life has hard moments, for sure, and life is hard in so.

[Anna Kai]

Many different ways, but your optimism is truly. It's, it's infectious and it's like real, you know, it's not like put on or anything. And so than thank you for sharing that with us today. Where can people find you on social at Noel Downing?

[Noelle Downing]

And I'm like, What is my TikTok? Why am I the worst?

[Anna Kai]

It's.

[Noelle Downing]

Oh, it's Noel's house. Because that's my, my TikTok's more interior.

[Anna Kai]

Okay, so perfect. Thanks so much for joining us today.

[Noelle Downing]

Thank you for having me.

[Unknown]

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