Jenny Yang Is Captain Save A Ho

Summary

Brutally Anna: Episode Summary – Jenny Yang Is Captain Save A Ho

Host: Anna Kai
Guest: Jenny Yang – Comedian, Writer, and Actor
Release Date: March 31, 2025

In this engaging episode of Brutally Anna, host Anna Kai interviews Jenny Yang, a multifaceted comedian, writer, and actor acclaimed for her roles in Netflix's Comedy Drama Series The Brothers Sun and her nomination as one of Variety's Top 10 Comics to Watch. Jenny shares her journey from a first career in politics to embracing the world of stand-up comedy, offering listeners a candid look into her personal struggles, cultural experiences, and the evolution of her self-love.

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1. From Politics to Comedy: An Unconventional Journey

Jenny Yang opens up about her transition from a high-pressure career in labor union organizing to the unpredictable world of stand-up comedy. She explains how her background in politics equipped her with negotiation skills and resilience, which proved invaluable on the comedy stage.

"I started doing standup comedy because I was so stressed out from being a manager." (04:36)

Jenny highlights that performing stand-up was a therapeutic outlet, allowing her to channel her frustrations into humor. Unlike her demanding job, open mic nights provided a controlled environment where she could experiment with her comedic voice without the constant stress of daily negotiations.

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2. Embracing Humor in Divisive Times

Anna Kai commends Jenny for leveraging humor as a bridge in today's polarized society. Jenny agrees, emphasizing that laughter can unite people from diverse backgrounds by highlighting shared human experiences.

"You can bring together people from totally opposite sides of the political spectrum... because you don't really laugh unless you've experienced it, right?" (02:19)

This philosophy underscores Jenny's approach to comedy, where she seeks to address serious topics with levity, making them more accessible and relatable to a broader audience.

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3. Navigating Upbringing and Cultural Identity

Jenny delves into her upbringing as the youngest of three children in an immigrant family from Taiwan. She discusses the challenges of language barriers, cultural expectations, and her role as the family translator from a young age.

"I was the kid translator, the way we do sometimes as immigrant kids, which is a lot of responsibility." (17:28)

This responsibility fostered her independence and overachiever tendencies but also instilled a sense of duty that influenced her personal and professional relationships.

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4. Mental Health Struggles and Coping Mechanisms

The conversation takes a poignant turn as Jenny shares her battles with mental health, especially during the COVID-19 pandemic. She recounts the emotional strain of witnessing her father's decline due to dementia and the subsequent loss he faced in late 2021.

"Sometimes maybe it's not chemical, maybe it's not you. Sometimes it's just your circumstances that's messing you up." (32:43)

Jenny highlights the importance of contextualizing mental health struggles within one's life circumstances rather than viewing them solely as personal deficiencies. She credits group therapy and cognitive behavioral techniques for helping her navigate these turbulent times.

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5. Confronting Family Dynamics and Personal Growth

A significant portion of the episode focuses on Jenny's confrontation with her father about his patriarchal behavior and its impact on her self-esteem and relationships. This confrontation marked a turning point in her journey towards self-empowerment.

"I straight up did that. And that was a big part of my healing." (43:31)

By addressing her father's behavior head-on, Jenny was able to break free from ingrained patterns of codependency, fostering healthier relationships and a stronger sense of self-worth.

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6. Relationships: From Codependency to Empowerment

Jenny reflects on her early dating experiences, characterized by codependent tendencies and low self-advocacy. She discusses how past relationships, including a toxic one during her early twenties, underscored the importance of setting boundaries and maintaining personal standards.

"I definitely didn't advocate my standards. I just sort of went with the flow." (64:30)

Through self-help literature and personal introspection, Jenny learned to recognize unhealthy patterns and prioritize her well-being, leading to more fulfilling and balanced relationships.

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7. Finding Love and Building a Supportive Partnership

Towards the episode's conclusion, Jenny shares her engagement story, detailing how she met her fiancé, Corey, through a dating app during the pandemic. Their shared values and complementary personalities created a strong foundation for their relationship.

"We both vibed on that, you know, right. And now we live that. I have a pizza party regularly in my backyard." (60:37)

Jenny emphasizes the significance of finding a partner who aligns with her extroverted nature and shared vision for a vibrant, socially connected life.

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Notable Quotes

• Jenny Yang (04:36): "I started doing standup comedy because I was so stressed out from being a manager."
• Jenny Yang (17:28): "I was the kid translator... which is a lot of responsibility."
• Jenny Yang (32:43): "Sometimes maybe it's not chemical, maybe it's not you. Sometimes it's just your circumstances that's messing you up."
• Jenny Yang (43:31): "I straight up did that. And that was a big part of my healing."
• Jenny Yang (64:30): "I definitely didn't advocate my standards. I just sort of went with the flow."
• Jenny Yang (60:37): "We both vibed on that, you know, right. And now we live that. I have a pizza party regularly in my backyard."

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Conclusion

In this heartfelt and humorous episode, Jenny Yang offers listeners an honest exploration of her life's highs and lows. From overcoming cultural and familial challenges to embracing her true self through comedy, Jenny exemplifies resilience and the power of self-discovery. Her story serves as an inspiration for anyone navigating similar paths of personal growth and self-acceptance.

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Follow Jenny Yang and Anna Kai:

• Jenny Yang: @jennyyang
• Anna Kai: @maybeboth

Subscribe to Brutally Anna on your favorite podcast platform and join Anna Kai every Monday for more insightful conversations.

Transcript

[Anna Kai]

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[Jenny Yang]

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[Anna Kai]

Responsibly Copyright 2025 Imported by Patron Spirits Company Coral Gables Florid Tequila 40% ABV welcome to Brutally Anna, a podcast about finding love, losing love, and all the things we think about but don't talk about Enough. I'm your host Anna Kai, AKA maybe both across social media, here to remind you that life can be beautiful even when it's freaking brutal. While I was freaking out about the fate of civilization as we know it in 2020, comedian, writer and actor Jenny Yang was busy at work being nominated as one of Variety's top 10 comics to watch. She's the epitome of of an overachiever, having written for Paramount Prime Video and also starred in Netflix's comedy drama series the Brothers Sun. As one of the loudest champions of Asian American representation in Hollywood, Jenny reminds us all that everything is fine, even when it's really not fine, if we can find the humor in life. Thanks so much for being here.

[Jenny Yang]

That's such a nice intro.

[Anna Kai]

I'm so excited to talk to you. I have so many questions, but I think one of the best things you said which really reminded me like it's such a divisive time right now and you said you can get people to think about anything if you make them laugh. And it's so true because you can bring together people from totally opposite sides of the political spectrum, religious spectrum, and if they both laugh about the same thing, that means there's a shared experience there because you don't really laugh unless you've experienced it right? Or if you feel like it's true.

[Jenny Yang]

Exactly.

[Anna Kai]

So. But the thing is like, you had very much a first career, and then you didn't even start off in stand up comedy. You started off in, like, slam poetry or, like. So, like, how did you realize you were funny? Because, like, in order to make people laugh, you have to think you're funny first. Right. So was there a moment? Was, like, one particular joke at a party, somebody was like, you're so funny. You should do stand up. And I was like, maybe I will.

[Jenny Yang]

I think it's an accumulation of things because ever since I was younger, I've had people say, oh, you're so funny, or, you know, you remind me of Margaret Cho or whatever, you know, G. Right.

[Anna Kai]

And then because there's nobody else to compare you to, honestly, the amount of people who are like, you remind me of Lucy Liu. When I first tried to start acting, I was like, we do not look anything like one another. I mean, I wish I look like. But, like, no, we. We know we don't.

[Jenny Yang]

I feel like figuring out that I was funny is an accumulation of things because when you're a little kid, there's not this, like, epiphany when you're a little, like, Asian immigrant girl, like, oh, you should become a comedian. You know, it was more like, I realized very early on that, you know, when our high school service organization had a bake sale in front of the Ralph's grocery store, that I was, like, not shy in heckling people and cajoling them to, like, buy cookies. I was very good at that. So I was like, oh, I'm actually really good at somehow selling. And usually you do it by making people laugh. I was a big student government nerd in high school. I ran for student body president. I won. You win by telling a speech that makes people laugh. So I don't know, Like, I just feel like going back. It makes sense when I think about things. But, yeah, as I'm growing up, I'm not like, oh, I'm gonna become a comedian.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. Because you had a very different path in life at first, although knowing what you were good at, like, student body president. And you kind of did that, you know, in your first career.

[Jenny Yang]

Yes.

[Anna Kai]

In politics.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. Which is. And you were still such an activist and you're still so outspoken, but, you know, that career probably made more sense to your parents than this career. Now, did you wait a while to tell them that you were pursuing this artistic path? I want to know, like, when the transition happened, I know you did it to kind of save your sanity.

[Jenny Yang]

Yes.

[Anna Kai]

Because you were basically like, I was negotiating for, like 85,000 people on a daily basis. And I just. I was going to kill somebody if I continued to do that. So I needed something to still love. Humanity.

[Jenny Yang]

Oh, I love that Anna does her homework. Incredible. Yeah, I just was. I started doing standup comedy because I was so stressed out from being a manager.

[Anna Kai]

I was like, but stand up comedy, to me sounds so stressful. Like, really, that's like, most people go, like, acquire a drinking habit or, like, you know, go to yoga. You're like, I'm gonna put myself in front of, like, the toughest crowds ever.

[Jenny Yang]

But it's whenever people say, wow, why did you think it was cool to do that? Honestly, working in politics, representing uncles and aunt who are so passionate about their own contracts. These are like public employees. They wanted to throw chairs at us, honestly. So, you know, dealing with a heckler and an open mic is, like, not less stressful. Interesting. No, I was so stressed out from working in politics that the stress of doing an open mic and bombing was chill.

[Anna Kai]

It was nothing. Because you were just kind of used to bombing every day almost as a labor union organizer.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah, Just, you know, I was paid well, not underpaid, but I was definitely underappreciated, you know, so what I did was I took improv classes, I took stand up comedy classes. And then I just sort of started going. And, you know, all of my coworkers, they were all alcoholics, and so they were happy to get two drink minimums. Come to my, like, bringer shows where you're not good, but they're gonna give you stage time because they know you'll bring people.

[Anna Kai]

Well, because they force you to bring people.

[Jenny Yang]

Yes.

[Anna Kai]

Otherwise you're paying for those two drinks.

[Jenny Yang]

A hundred or something, you know. So, yeah, it was chill. Like, I was able to just sort of do that while I was still working. And I made myself a little spreadsheet, a little exit strategy. Like, what would it look like if I quit and became a consultant? I didn't know I would go into entertainment, but I did imagine quitting.

[Anna Kai]

What do you mean? Like, what would it look like if I quit and became a consultant?

[Jenny Yang]

Like, if I was just freelance.

[Anna Kai]

Oh, on the political side?

[Jenny Yang]

Yes.

[Anna Kai]

I was like a consultant to comedians.

[Jenny Yang]

No, no, Anything, Anything. Because at that point I was, like, just getting better at doing standup comedy. You know, I wasn't quite ready to have the audacity to, like, be like, I'm gonna quit immediately. You know, So I did that a couple years before I actually quit. And also, it took me a While to actually say, well, I think I'm gonna full force, like, become an entertainer. You know, there was a hot moment of, like, less than a year that I was a home and office professional organizer. Like, you know, like Marie Kondo.

[Anna Kai]

Yes.

[Jenny Yang]

Before Marie Kondo blew up, I was out here.

[Anna Kai]

There was Jenny Yang.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah, there was Jenny Yang organizing your workflow for routine with your kids, you know, that's why.

[Anna Kai]

So is your house super organized?

[Jenny Yang]

It's okay. Organized. You always want to have that one stash that everything, you know, that one place where everything could go to the junk drawer.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah, the junk drawer at the junk.

[Jenny Yang]

I'll have a junk storage room, but we're going to organize that. I feel like it's in cycles. I do try to, like. It's like, cleansing for me. Is that weird?

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. No, no, no, it's not.

[Jenny Yang]

It's cleansing for me to, like.

[Anna Kai]

It's spring cleaning.

[Jenny Yang]

I clean pretty regularly.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah, you should make that into a bit, like, follow. Like, bring us along on Instagram or TikTok and be like, anna, I'm out.

[Jenny Yang]

Here trying to figure out my content this year because I kind of. I, like, took a break, really, during the pandemic, I was too depressed.

[Anna Kai]

Weren't we all?

[Jenny Yang]

I know. I mean, other people soared and coped by being online and, like, making content, which is great. And you were doing such a good service. Me, I was dealing with hormones. I was dealing with a father passing away. You know, all these things. So I was like, I can't deal. I can't be online.

[Anna Kai]

I cope by going offline. I don't want to be in the public eye when I don't feel good about myself. And that's also why, like, I don't post that much in comparison to other people in my bucket. I post, like, two to three times to four times a week, max. I can't be online that much. I'm like, y'all don't need to know.

[Jenny Yang]

That's so much to me. That's so much to me. And I think it's like, during the pandemic, the TikTok ification of social media really happened. And so that was just like, you gotta feed the beast.

[Anna Kai]

Right? I know. And it's like how I gotta stay in front of people and I gotta stay innocent and it's. I gotta be, like, valid almost.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

But, yeah, I mean, you're. You have so many buckets that you're. You are a standup comic and you're a writer and you're an actor. So it's sort of like, I think it's reasonable for you not to be posting every day because for somebody like me, I don't wear all those hats. Like you're producing content whether or not we see it on Instagram.

[Jenny Yang]

Yes, that's true.

[Anna Kai]

Is there one that you like the most?

[Jenny Yang]

It's hard to say. I do love writing. I think the foundation of everything I do is writing. But, you know, I used to perform as a poet. I wouldn't say. I wouldn't call it slam poetry, but that's what I did from college into moving back to LA after college. And that's how I got feedback that I was good at communicating and good at, like, working with an audience or a crowd. And so, you know, that's always gonna be lovely is like live performance and the immediate kind of gratification. Right. Of getting a reaction. Yeah, I love it. I love that stuff. That's why I love hosting, you know, that's why I decided to, like, write and host my own monthly live comedy show, Self Help Me.

[Anna Kai]

You don't get. Yeah, go watch, Go watch. But you don't get stage fright then? You don't.

[Jenny Yang]

Oh, no, I do get stage fright. It comes sometimes.

[Anna Kai]

Okay.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah. But no, not usually.

[Anna Kai]

Not usually because you're more looking forward to the energy than you are afraid of being judged by it.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah, I mean, it depends on the context. You know, I've done auditions where I felt very, like, not safe. Right.

[Anna Kai]

I've done the audition process is Because I was a struggling actress.

[Jenny Yang]

Yes.

[Anna Kai]

For many years. And that the audition room is always so horrifying to me because it's. You're acting in a vacuum. There's almost like nothing to feed off of. And sometimes you get a good reader and they're trying. And sometimes you get a reader that's literally just like, mehmeh, meh, meh, meh, meh, meh, meh. And you're like, try to give them all of this. Yeah, it's a really, really intimidating process.

[Jenny Yang]

But, yeah, stage fright. I feel like at some point I just like, took away my shame. You have to just like, unplug from the shame machine and just be like, well, I guess what do you have to lose then? Your dignity.

[Anna Kai]

And like, fuck dignity. Right. Okay. So I relate to your content on so many levels because you speak a lot about Asian American issues and everything. And I, you know, I grew up outside of Philly, which you have an odd tie to, which we'll get to in a second.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

But something that you said really Resonated with me because you said that when you were in high school, there was some kid named Burton, who was Asian, by the way, said that your nose was too big and that your nose was too big and you would never be an actor.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah, that name was changed to protect the innocent.

[Anna Kai]

Right, I know. I was like, burton's oddly specific. I was like, that's not the real name. I'm going to fucking sue you if he listens to this. But yes, we'll call him Burton. You know, we'll call him Chad. For the sake of my.

[Jenny Yang]

We love a Chad.

[Anna Kai]

We love a Chad or we don't love a Chad.

[Jenny Yang]

We don't. We like to use the word, though, you know?

[Anna Kai]

Yes, we like to use the word. And I have a very similar experience in that. When I was a sophomore in high school, I was auditioning for the school play, which was the lion in Win, which takes place in, like, Old ass England. And there were only six roles. Two of them were women, female roles. And I had a kid say to me, we'll call him Chad. He was like, you know, you shouldn't even try out because there are no Asians in this play. And I remember, I was like, oh, God. And guess what? I got one of the two female roles.

[Jenny Yang]

Hell, yeah.

[Anna Kai]

And I remember thinking at the time that maybe he was right, but I was just gonna try anyways, and that's kind of how I've approached my life. But, you know, I. I thought. I did think for a second maybe I really shouldn't be doing this. I mean, was there any part of you that was like, maybe I shouldn't be doing this? And is there any part of you that still feels kind of that imposter syndrome that everybody talks about these days?

[Jenny Yang]

You know, I've decided to let go of the term imposter syndrome just because one of the things that excited me about pursuing entertainment or just doing what I do, which is act, write, create, content and host, all of it is every day I get to do something new. And that's what excited me, you know, and once you kind of work on that muscle of, like, being excited to do something new, then nothing should phase you, if that makes any sense. But that does require a lot of delusion. I love delusion. You know, I feel like you have to be committed to this work of being like, I have an imagination. Pay me. You know, that requires delusion in both your creative skills as well as creating.

[Anna Kai]

Something out of nothing.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah. As well as your emotional state. You know, use that imagination, pretend you're fine. You know, I feel like that's like, a really good way to move forward, you know? So. Yeah, I just have been. It comes and goes. Sometimes when I'm not feeling as well, when the hormones hit, like, I've done, like, IVF where the hormones are just off the charts. I will get very blue. Like, I will have like a week or two of just being like, no one cares. Why do I do what I do? Like, and then I just go into my little hole. You know, I, like, watch, like, Harry Potter, like any good millennial, sorry, don't give money to jk, but I relate to it.

[Anna Kai]

But it's comfort. It's like comfort food for your eyeballs.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah. You're just like, I just want to.

[Anna Kai]

Disappear in this fantas Hogwarts with Dumbledore.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah. So I think I don't use the term imposter syndrome anymore, but I do try to manage my delusions, my negative self talk. Honestly, at this point, if anyone has negative self talk, we should just imagine your voice in our heads. Because it's so good for talking back to our critical self talk.

[Anna Kai]

But I use it to talk to myself. And it's so much harder to take your own advice than it is to take someone else's advice. Like, I will listen to maybe somebody else talking about similar topics that I'm talking about in my videos, but I'll listen to them any day overall. Listen to myself, you know, And I. I struggle a lot with mental health. Like, I. I have struggled with depression. I still, you know, I went through a really bad phase of depression a couple months ago. And like, like, you know, it's. It's so funny because I always thought, do you struggle with, like, mental. You said you were depressed during the kind of.

[Jenny Yang]

Technically it was called. So I used to go to therapy every week. And especially during the time that I was, like, so burnt out from my first career in politics. And my therapist, she accidentally let me see the report.

[Anna Kai]

I accidentally saw it, and it was like, your diagnosis?

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah. And it was like adjustment disorder. So she was like, this is bad enough. You're in a bad enough state that you could take meds. But. But she believed that this was more of a life phase thing, that I was. Not that I was overly stressed. I was going through a lot of changes, and I was not equipped, if that makes any sense, which makes so much sense, because it does. She ended up recommending me doing group therapy, which was called assertiveness training, anger management. I was like, wow, who knew I needed More assertiveness. But that's what I realized, is that sometimes in your public life, you can be very assertive. You could be very, like, I know how to handle business. But in your personal life, it could be a totally different personality. That's why, like, uber feminists that you see who are super advocates like Gloria Steinem or whoever, you know, could confess that they've been in abusive relationships. Right. Because it's very different, your ability to navigate your emotional world in relation with an intimate partner versus a public world, you know?

[Anna Kai]

Well, because I think in our professional lives, everybody knows how to compartmentalize that, because there's a way to rationalize it. And they know not to bring. Especially when people are not in the entertainment industry or the creative, we have to bring a little bit of our personal or a lot of our personal lives into our work. But if you're in a corporate job like you were before, you're expected to kind of tune off that side of you. And so. But your personal life, I think dating is, like, the place where all of our shit comes out.

[Jenny Yang]

Oh, my God.

[Anna Kai]

It's like the inner child trauma just. Just comes flowing out. And you've got a very unique and diverse background, and so there's a lot of probably shit to unpack there.

[Jenny Yang]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Anna Kai]

I mean, you were born in Taiwan.

[Jenny Yang]

I was born in Taiwan. I came to America when I was five. I was the youngest of three kids, so I learned how to speak English. First of the whole family became like, the kid translator, the way we do sometimes as immigrant kids, which is a lot of responsibility. And it probably shaped who I am as this, like, overachiever, you know, needing to make sure everything's taken care of kind of person.

[Anna Kai]

A very independent person. I'm the same way, because I was back then. There was no such thing as, like, free Amazon returns, no questions asked. Like, do you remember having to return something to, like, Kmart back in the day? And you would have to make like, I know, right? This is how old we are. If you guys don't know what Kmart is, you're really young. But I remember you'd have to make like a, you know, almost like a deposition to, like, the customer service rep as to why you needed to return this item. Yeah. And we had no money, so, like, if my mom needed to return an item, she really needed the 20 bucks back.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

And I would be standing there watching her try to explain it in her very, very broken English, and I would be like, I can explain this situation so much better. And I could make this return happen, but it doesn't look reasonable for a seven year old to be negotiating on behalf of her mother.

[Jenny Yang]

Imagine trying to translate your mom at a doctor's appointment. When was the last time you had sex? Um, my mom. Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

And your parents don't speak any English, right?

[Jenny Yang]

No. So my dad spoke English, but he knew more, sort of like reading English.

[Anna Kai]

Okay.

[Jenny Yang]

And then my mom, none at all, pretty much. She was a garment worker, kind of worked factory jobs most of her life. My dad, he worked in the airlines. Yeah, my dad worked for China Airlines in the security division, kind of working on policies, kind of this middle manager.

[Anna Kai]

So he had to know how to speak some English.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah. And he knew how to write it, but his speaking wasn't as good. Like, he would easily be like, no, you just talk to the man. You know what I mean? You're seven. I don't care. Yes, go ahead, talk to the Kmart official.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah, figure it out.

[Jenny Yang]

Totally, totally. Yeah. I forgot what the question was.

[Anna Kai]

I guess the. Well, you know, I mostly wanted to just know more about, like, your upbringing in terms of, like, how that shaped you and why. Why you decided to go. Because I think it's interesting that you decided to become a labor union organizer and that was like, your first career out of college, right?

[Jenny Yang]

Yes.

[Anna Kai]

And that's like an odd. Like, I don't hear many kids being like, I want to grow up and negotiate on behalf of labor unions. Like, where does that sense of justice come from? And my question is, does that sense of justice come from watching your parents struggle in this country and real unjust this country is?

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah, yeah, I would say that, you know, my first taste of injustice was being the only girl with two older brothers. Let's be honest. All right. My first bullies, your siblings, and then also, you know, having a dad that was very patriarchal and old school and old fashioned. My dad is like, essentially was the age of a grandparent to me, so he was even farther back in his sort of old school ways. Right. And so, yeah, I just was raised with my dad being very kind of like a controlling, patriarchal dude. My mom being the sort of stereotypical. She only lives her life for other people. She's a mother, she's a sister, she's a, you know, wife, that kind of a thing. And I think very early on, I had this attitude of, like, this doesn't seem fair. I think boys get more power. And so even in high school, in middle school, I was like, oh, men's voices that sound lower Are considered more serious and authoritative. I should lower my voice. Like, I literally, like, made all this.

[Anna Kai]

It's so interesting that you picked that up.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah. High school. Yeah. I was like, most people are just.

[Anna Kai]

Like, I want a boyfriend.

[Jenny Yang]

No, no. I was more like, I think this is unfair that I get to be treated this way. I grew boobs, Bigger boobs than most of my friends. I started hunching over. Cause I was like, like, boobs are weakness. Like, you know what I mean? I didn't use it as, like, ooh, this is power. I can check my.

[Anna Kai]

Did you go Elizabeth Holmes on your voice and, like, lower.

[Jenny Yang]

No, not that low. But it's basically the way I sound now is imagine, like, being 12.

[Anna Kai]

No, I know.

[Jenny Yang]

This is low.

[Anna Kai]

Right? You don't. Yeah, it's low.

[Jenny Yang]

I didn't know, like, there was something inside me that didn't allow myself to giggle at boys. Does that make sense? Like, there was just something that just. I wouldn't. I could.

[Anna Kai]

You were like, I need to be taken seriously more than I need to be liked by boys?

[Jenny Yang]

I would say so.

[Anna Kai]

Which is.

[Jenny Yang]

I mean, the hormones caught up. The hormones caught up. But. But that was because of the kind of model I saw in the way that my parents treated each other, you know, and the way that my brothers were treated versus me. Now, I did great in school because I came when I was younger, so my English was better. So that did give me a little bit more privilege.

[Anna Kai]

But how old were your brothers when you guys came?

[Jenny Yang]

They were like 15 and 14. They're much older. It's so hard.

[Anna Kai]

That is tough because after nine, that's when you have a really hard time picking up a new language with no accent.

[Jenny Yang]

Yes. So my older brother has a slight accent. My second brother doesn't. In the same conversation with my two brothers, I'll speak to my oldest brother in Chinese still and my second brother in English. But my oldest brother, he's fluent.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. You know, it's just his.

[Jenny Yang]

It's just the way it works, you know?

[Anna Kai]

Right. And it's just the timing of your life that.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah, yeah. So I would say, you know, at first, me wanting to sort of seek a justice oriented job was because I felt like there were all of these things that felt unfair even within my own home. And when I met other activist y kids, what I realized is they were always inspired, like me by if they had a personal issue that they couldn't solve, they decided they would become an activist to solve it in the public. Right. So if you can't Fix your parents fucked up relationship. Maybe there's a way that you can change. Change a public policy about it. Like, that was a lot of the mentality of the other kids that I met who were super into activism or working in politics. You know, if you felt. Feel like you don't get enough money. Cause my parents are retirees and they don't get enough money, maybe you go out and be like, oh, I wanna like fix Medicaid. I wanna fix Medi Cal. You know, this is the mentality of little young activisty kids, at least the ones that I met and that I did programs with.

[Anna Kai]

You know, I mean, you've always, it seem from a very young age, you've always had a very big scope of what life should look like outside of, like, your immediate world, which is very unique.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah, I just grew up too fast.

[Anna Kai]

You did, you did.

[Jenny Yang]

I was just like, I felt responsible for everyone else, you know, and that translates into like an intimate relationship. I was a terrible codependent in my relationships, you know, where they were just like.

[Anna Kai]

Well, because you were trying to make somebody up, make up her.

[Jenny Yang]

I love being a captain, Save a ho. I love being like a fixer, Mrs.

[Anna Kai]

Fix it, you know?

[Jenny Yang]

Right. I love. Cause that's what.

[Anna Kai]

Did you date in high school and college?

[Jenny Yang]

No, I didn't date until I was 21. Oh, I know.

[Anna Kai]

Wow.

[Jenny Yang]

Because I was like, men are bad. Why would I trust them?

[Anna Kai]

You're like, I just want to be one. I want to have the power of a man. But I don't want to date them.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah, that's how I felt.

[Anna Kai]

Okay, so your first boyfriend, who was he? And why did you then decide that men were maybe not quite as bad? Did you caught up at 21, you hit puberty?

[Jenny Yang]

I mean, the puberty had happened. It was just. It overcame the sort of desire to not be intimate with a man. Yeah, no, I finally took a risk in like, actually being more emotionally present and honest. I went through therapy for the first time in college. That helped me a lot to kind of go through some of the little trauma, generational trauma, immigrant trauma. And then that allowed me to be more open, you know. And so my first boyfriend. Oh, I loved him, Loved him. We were together for three years, on and off. Listen, it was toxic, it was not great. But he was hot, the sex was great. She's out here, 21, trying to get her swerve on. That's the hormones. Overcame the hate of men.

[Anna Kai]

I mean, I feel like if your first relationship isn't toxic, like you were Just, I mean, you're just not. I can't relate to you. You can't relate.

[Jenny Yang]

You weren't being honest.

[Anna Kai]

You weren't being hon. Like, if your first relationship was perfect, like, those people that I'm like, I don't. Their first boyfriend, they marry. I'm like, you could not pay me to be in the same room as some of the guys I dated in high school and in college. Like, no, absolutely not.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

Did you have a type?

[Jenny Yang]

Did I have a type at first? Yes. I had a type that was like, I tended to be attracted to, like, former athlete masculine dudes.

[Anna Kai]

So big guys.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah, like six feet tall. Yeah, six feet tall. Listen, we're not commenting, but in terms of height, like, they tended to be like, at least 5, 10, and former at least college athletes.

[Anna Kai]

That's good. Did you care about race? Was that a thing?

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[Jenny Yang]

Generally did not want to date white guys because of my politics and just like the sort of probability of feeling like I could relate to them, given who I was, both politically and just life experience, right? And then as I got older, I was like, TikTok, I need to open up these fucking probabilities.

[Anna Kai]

Is he breathing? Does he have a pulse?

[Jenny Yang]

I Definitely shifted my standards. But the original standards were, do I want to just climb him and kiss his face? You know, that was the original standards.

[Anna Kai]

And preferably not white. Like, preferably a darker complexion man that I could climb and kiss.

[Jenny Yang]

Well, yeah. Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

The irony of it now, is your.

[Jenny Yang]

Fiance, my fiancee, is very white. Very white. Wisconsin white. He's Wisconsin white, but also not like a normal white guy, which is why we get along. But that's a whole other story.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. Well, my husband is very white, but also not a quote unquote normal white guy, even though he's from Boston. So you would think he's like a masshole, but like, he. My parents, who are very, very Chinese, have spent a lot of time with him because we lived with them during the pandemic for four months straight up. Imagine being in your mid-30s, living with your parents and your or then boyfriend, not even fiance. So really could have turned into ex boyfriend very quickly there. And they're like, anna, he's more Chinese than we are. Like, culture happens a lot. Yeah. It's not so much a. And, you know, when you said it's not so much about the race, it's just the relatability. I think that's what it is. The older I get, the more I realize how fucking Asian I am when it comes to a lot of, like, values, when it comes to money, when it comes to family, and just like, very small, even. Something as small as, like, please take off your fucking shoes when you come into my house. Like a white people thing, you know?

[Jenny Yang]

I know they complain about that sometimes. You're like, what?

[Anna Kai]

I know. No, I'm like, I have a really aggressive sign on my door now that says, kindly take off your shoes. I really wanted to.

[Jenny Yang]

That's not aggressive. That's so sweet. Kindly.

[Anna Kai]

I know. Well, yeah, it's just. I wanted to write something else, but. Yes, you better. I know. Right? But. Okay. So did. Did your parents care who you dated because you're the only girl in the family?

[Jenny Yang]

They. We never talked about dating because that's, like, not a thing we talk about.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah.

[Jenny Yang]

The first time I did introduce them to my first boyfriend, who's Latino, I was so nervous. Like, I just had all these fears of, like, what they would say and how they would judge me based off of nothing other than, you know, subliminal messaging from childhood. Right. Nothing explicit. And then I, like, one day I just started crying because I was anticipating them meeting him.

[Anna Kai]

Right.

[Jenny Yang]

And they're like, why are you crying? We're like, playing mahjong this is like so fucking Chinese. We're playing mahjong and all of a sudden I'm crying, which no emotions have been in front of my family for years. Years, you know.

[Anna Kai]

Right.

[Jenny Yang]

And like, why are you crying? And I'm like, yeah, I'm just afraid, you know, my parents are not going to accept me. This. I was talking to my brother and his wife and, and, and the, my sister in law was like, just go tell your, tell your mom. It's, it's fine. I was like, mom, go. Okay, Mom, I just worry that you won't like Bruno, that's his name, Bruno. She's like, what? And she was basically. I was so relieved. She was like, ah, silly girl. Why are you crying over this? Yeah, just so long as you're happy. I was like, wait, what?

[Anna Kai]

I know.

[Jenny Yang]

Where was this mom growing up? Do you know what I'm saying?

[Anna Kai]

It was never about my happiness.

[Jenny Yang]

No, no.

[Anna Kai]

It was never about my joy. My joy was last.

[Jenny Yang]

No, no, no. Exactly. Where is my mom now? This is tremendous. How. And then that's when I really learned. I was like, oh. I was like 21. That was my first time seeing my mom as being someone who could evolve. You know what I mean? I was like, oh, wait, you can be different.

[Anna Kai]

Well, it's like what I've heard before and I always loved is that our parents are doing life for the first time too.

[Jenny Yang]

Yes.

[Anna Kai]

And we forget that. And especially now that we're of a parental age, even though we don't have children. I realize, like, when I think about how old I was, my mom had me when she was 27. I'm 33. So when I, when she was my age. What's the math on that? I was five. Yeah, it's wild. I mean, but I remember being five and being like, this person has all the answers. I mean, I don't even fucking have the answers right now. For me. And this is probably why I don't have a kid yet. I have a dog. That's hard enough on its own, you know, but like, it's, it's just really tough. And especially I think about our parents. They didn't speak the language. Yeah, I mean, that's, it's insane, you know, to try and navigate life as an adult and be responsible for three kids with not speaking the native tongue.

[Jenny Yang]

What did they speak?

[Anna Kai]

My parents speak Mandarin and Shanghainese and they speak English now, but when they first came, I mean, they knew very, very minimal English. Just enough to kind of get by, you know?

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah. I mean, you know, when you ask about, like, depression and stuff, for me, you know, what I learned was that sometimes maybe it's not chemical, maybe it's not you. Sometimes it's just your circumstances that's messing you up, you know? And we do have a certain amount of agency and choices that we can make. For some of us, it's getting out of a relationship, it's moving. But sometimes even that's really hard if you don't have the finances, if, you know, this other person has some kind of control over you. And so, yeah, I just think it's circumstantial.

[Anna Kai]

And I love that because I think there's this tendency to go through really tough times in life and be like, I'm feeling like this because I'm a depressed person, or I'm an anxious.

[Jenny Yang]

Pathologize it.

[Anna Kai]

Exactly.

[Jenny Yang]

This is just who I am.

[Anna Kai]

Right. And it's not. It's not your personality. It's just you are going through something really shitt right now that no normal person would react in a normal way to.

[Jenny Yang]

Right. No, it's actually normal that you feel depressed because the situation is bonkers and.

[Anna Kai]

You'Re not a sociopath, which is a good thing.

[Jenny Yang]

Right. Cause you actually get affected by the things that happen in the world. And so, I don't know. That's why I'm just like, wow, we're four years into this pandemic that still kind of exists. And, you know, I just feel like we haven't processed all the grief and all the trauma of that as a collective, as a society, as a culture. And so, you know, these days, if you're a friend, like, don't be a flake. But also. So I'm more forgiving if you're just like, the weight of the world is on me. I don't feel like going out the house today. You know, it's like, I'm just way more accepting of that post 2020 than I was pre2020.

[Anna Kai]

Right. Cause you've probably felt like that before, like, made plans and be like, oh, my God, I wish I did not agree to meet this person. It has nothing to do with the other person.

[Jenny Yang]

It's just where you're at because of just your body decided it needed to process some things.

[Anna Kai]

Right. And you went through something really traumatic during the pandemic. I mean, you lost your father in 20, late 2021. Right. Yeah, but it was. So walk me through that, because it seems like you knew it was coming. Did he have dementia? Okay. And he was slowly kind of you saw him fade away, which I've heard is almost worse because you're saying goodbye for like years.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anna Kai]

So when did you realize that this. When did his dementia set in?

[Jenny Yang]

You start seeing early kind of aging characteristics. You don't know if it's dementia. When he was like 80, even my dad was old. I'm just telling you right now, he had me when he was very old. My mom's younger, he's old. So, yeah, I've only known my dad as a senior.

[Anna Kai]

Right.

[Jenny Yang]

You know, so, yeah. And so you just kind of start seeing them kind of deteriorate. And at some point you have to like, say to yourself, well, what role do I want to have in their life as they've become older? And so that's why stayed in Los Angeles rather than, like, being in New York, where I probably would be. You know, I went to school on the east coast, loved being in a big city and. But I came back to Los Angeles because I wanted to be closer to my family. And yeah, seeing my dad deteriorate, even though he was. He's the reason I have daddy issues. He's the reason why I had to go through therapy. I still love him. Right? I still loved him. And so, yeah, he just. I don't know how much you know about dementia, but a lot of times they will just go into loops of scripts where they just want to repeat certain things to you or observe certain things over and over again. And you just live in that loop sometimes. And then toward the end, physically, the frailty, you know, was a big. The month right before he passed away, we made a really tough decision to like put him into an old folks.

[Anna Kai]

Home, which is so not Asian.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah, it was very hard for the family because he was becoming violent. He's not like, he wasn't like a mellowed out old guy, dementia guy. He was like, okay. The worst parts of his personality came out. So he was a harm to himself and to us.

[Anna Kai]

So you needed to put him in a home.

[Jenny Yang]

I know.

[Anna Kai]

Which is really tough because I've always said, and I said this to my husband when we got married, I was like, you have to understand that short of something like that happening, I'm never putting my parents into a nursing home. They're gonna move in with us before I would put them, because it's a cultural thing totally. Whereas in. It's not an American culture thing, it's more common to be like, oh, it's like natural. They're going to go to a nursing home now. I'm like, no. Unless I physically cannot care for my parents because there's some severe disability. Like, with your father there at the end, it's just not happening. So it's such a tough. Because it feels like that filial duty that you have to your family. So that's insane. So did you guys have, like, a family meeting with your brothers and your mom and say, you know, this is. Was anybody opposed to it?

[Jenny Yang]

Of course, there was a process. It was a process.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah, it was a process.

[Jenny Yang]

But, you know, we did that. And, you know, they always say, like, you know, try not to remember your loved one as they were in their decline. Try to remember them. But listen, it's hard to forget. I don't know. This is not a. We don't want to go. I don't want to go into the details, but shit got raw where you're like, damn, we're dealing with just like a human being seeing you're watching someone die physically, like their. Their body is shutting down. You know what I mean? So, yeah, it was brutal. But that's why I say, like, during the pandemic, I could not make content. I couldn't talk to a camera, to be like, hey, guys, you know, I couldn't. I know I couldn't because I was going through that. I had fallen in love. There's also good things that happen. But, you know when they say, like, it's not just bad things that are stressful, it's also, like, good things and you change. Change.

[Anna Kai]

Any change.

[Jenny Yang]

Listen, you all of a sudden had, like, a million or so eyes on you in the middle of pandemic.

[Anna Kai]

Yes. And now I'm on antidepressants for the first time in my life.

[Jenny Yang]

It's so much. Right, because it's all this energy, all this change. It's like our. Our. Our bodies as human beings, we did not. We are not built to evolution. Evolutionize at the rate of the Internet. We aren't.

[Anna Kai]

No, we're not.

[Jenny Yang]

We can't adjust. Our brains can't be handling all this information. Our brains can't be handling all of the, like, eyeballs and fame and, like, attention and, like, commentary and, like, scrutiny and, like, being observed, you know, being observed. Oh, stressful. So stressful.

[Anna Kai]

It is.

[Jenny Yang]

You know, so, you know, so that's why it's like, I'm sorry you went through your depression. It's great that you're being honest about it, because that shit's real. Because everyone could look at you and be like, oh, my gosh, she's so pretty. She's such a nice house. Her hair, her makeup, her clothes. It's so perfect. And she's, like an influencer. She, like, gets all these people to, like, listen to her. But even these good things can be so tremendously stressful. And so that's what I realized. What? Back in the day, right before I quit, my first career is like, this therapist who taught me so many things was like, this is a time of change and adjustment. You are not equipped to handle this much change. It could be good change, it could be bad change, but here, go to this group therapy class. You know what I mean? You're going to learn all these things. And I did. I learned all these tremendous things, like, you know, meditative breathing to, like, calm my nervous system. I learned cognitive therapy that actually works.

[Anna Kai]

I have tried meditation so many times, I'm like, I can't do it.

[Jenny Yang]

But it could just be as simple as breathing and counting.

[Anna Kai]

Okay.

[Jenny Yang]

And then, like, thinking from, like, your toes to your neck, every part of your body, like, try to relax every body in phases. That shit works. And then when I thought about it, I was like, oh, my mom tried to teach me this stuff when I was a baby, right?

[Anna Kai]

Like, she kind of.

[Jenny Yang]

But, like, when I was, like, a child, when I was, like, four, I'd be like, I remember sleeping in. In their bed or something. I was still a baby.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah.

[Jenny Yang]

And I would be like, mom, it's too hot. I can't go to sleep. And then she'll be like, okay, just. If you just imagine your. Your, like, your. Your. Your energy being peaceful, it'll become peaceful. Just imagine, you know, like, so she'd be like.

[Anna Kai]

She's like.

[Jenny Yang]

She was teaching me meditation. I was like, wait, what's that?

[Anna Kai]

It's all psychological.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah.

[Jenny Yang]

And so, I don't know, like, doing this group therapy really helped they t many things.

[Anna Kai]

That's amazing. I mean, also, I think your therapist, your old therapist deserves a raise. That you. That's, like, the most, like, that's the best Yelp review of a therapist.

[Jenny Yang]

I mean, I've searched. I've searched after her. Years later, I was like, maybe I need to go back to therapy.

[Anna Kai]

You know?

[Jenny Yang]

And I don't think she's in practice, at least for me.

[Anna Kai]

Right. She's too good to. She. I need to.

[Jenny Yang]

She was half white, half. Half Japanese, and was just so cool and, like, understanding. She gave me so much.

[Anna Kai]

It's so interesting that she didn't rush to diagnose you as a depressive or an anxious Person, which is. You know, I think that's kind of almost not to say that, like, when people get those diagnosis, it's like their therapists are taking a coppa. But I've never even heard of that. Adjustment.

[Jenny Yang]

Adjustment. Disorder.

[Anna Kai]

Adjustment disorder.

[Jenny Yang]

It's just. You're just not adjusting to your circum. Your life phase.

[Anna Kai]

Right. And you were adjusting to a lot. I mean, you're following the.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

And I needed more skills. Yeah. And the fate of humanity, honestly, is really what I was concerned. I was like, this is it. This is like the movie. Right.

[Jenny Yang]

The pandemic.

[Anna Kai]

Oh, my go, God.

[Jenny Yang]

Right. It's like just that alone. Even if your life is perfect.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah.

[Jenny Yang]

Just dealing with, like, what is going to happen to humanity.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. I didn't want to look at people. I mean, you know, I fully bought into. I was like, on the street. And this was before nobody knew anything. First of all, I think it came out recently that six feet is bullshit. Like, that was just out of, like, I would be on the street in, like, suburban Pennsylvania in the woods, walking with my husband and a dog, and we would see somebody from, like, literally across the street. Like, couldn't even tell you that. And I'd be like, don't look at them. They're Medusa. Like, I thought it was, like, literally a Humanity was. I was like, they' give us. Like, you can't, you know, see whether they're a male or a female. Yeah. But I was like, they're moving. They might have Covid. So it was really scary. I mean. Yeah. And you've talked a lot about kind of your father's death on your substack, and just, like, in your. In your comedy. And one thing I love that you wrote on your substack was, like, things you wish you heard growing up from your parents. And I think that's so interesting because for those of you who are not Asian. Asian parents love. Language is not a language. They don't speak it. Right. Like, the. And it's a stereotype because it's true. It's like, my parents would rather peel me a tangerine than tell me they love me.

[Jenny Yang]

It's usually acts of service.

[Anna Kai]

It's acts of service. And so I never really. And like, now we say I love you to one another, but it still feels kind of foreign. Hugs feel foreign. You know, I mean, I married an American family where they hug a lot. And like, now it's like, you know, it's funny watching, like, my mom try and hug my husband, and she's just like, Nobody knows what to do with their arms and everything. But I am curious. Like, do you wish you said anything to your dad while he was here? Because you guys, you know, you didn't talk about your feelings. You said everything.

[Jenny Yang]

Oh, yeah. A lot of my growth was also just confronting him. To be like, I didn't like how you treated mom. Like, I said all the things.

[Anna Kai]

Oh, really?

[Jenny Yang]

Oh, yeah. That was a big part of my healing.

[Anna Kai]

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[Anna Kai]

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[Jenny Yang]

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[Anna Kai]

Give it a try.

[Jenny Yang]

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[Jenny Yang]

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[Anna Kai]

See full [e-mail] I'm in love with.

[C]

My best friend's ex.

[Anna Kai]

My sister is having. Having an affair. I think my therapist is emotionally unavailable. Did my mom just join a cult? These are just a few of the real life dilemmas we've helped our listeners sort through on our podcast Unsolicited Advice. I'm Ashley. And I'm Taryn. Each week on Unsolicited Advice, we unpack our listeners dilemmas on air and give our unfiltered advice. So if you could use some help handling modern dating, workplace tension, family drama, and all of life's other curveballs, we're here to help. We may not be professionals, but we're the next best thing. Plus, we won't charge you a co pay. So whether you need some guidance of your own or just want to eavesdrop on other people's juicy stories, tune into Unsolicited Advice every Monday, wherever you get your podcasts. Interesting. And this was before his decline, in his 80s.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

That.

[Jenny Yang]

Where he was still like.

[Anna Kai]

Right. Because I think it's a little unfair to be like you're dying and you can't process at all what I'm saying. So I'm gonna finally get it all out. He was still comprehending what you were saying.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah. A lot of when he was, you know, kind of hurting and kind of deep in his dementia, it was a lot of just comforting him.

[Anna Kai]

Right. It wasn't a conversation, it was just palliative care.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah, totally. Yeah. So I'm, I'm happy to say that, that I don't have regrets about not having said things to my, to my dad. You know, I tell my mom everything now, basically, Basically everything. How much I love her. I've trained her into hugging me, you know, that was the whole thing I did. I actively trained her.

[Anna Kai]

Do you think she enjoys it now?

[Jenny Yang]

I think so. She probably still thinks it's like, ah, that's the sound Chinese people make when they're just like, what is this? This is nonsense. You know, it's very like that. But no, but she, she likes it. She, she's embraced it and like, you know, Cory, my fiance, loves hugging her too. Cause he's a lover and a hugger. And then she lets him, you know, we've all hung out a lot. So now she's like very comfortable with him. So, you know, I'm so fortunate that I've been able to kind of do the things now and have the sort of budget to be able to treat my mom like the queen she is.

[Anna Kai]

That is the best feeling in the world. Oh yeah.

[Jenny Yang]

She never got treated. I'm like, I took her to British tea. Afternoon tea in London.

[Anna Kai]

High tea.

[Jenny Yang]

High tea at a fancy London hotel. So much silverware.

[Anna Kai]

I know.

[Jenny Yang]

So much tableside service. I was. My mom's like, this is so much, so much cleaning. Every little.

[Anna Kai]

So many forks, so many forks. She's like, where's the chopsticks?

[Jenny Yang]

My, my dad used to make fun of like Western dinner service. Because he's like, why, why would you make a tool for just one thing? Chopsticks. Chinese chopsticks. So, so smart. So genius. Chopsticks, spear, skewer, cut, used together to pick things up.

[Anna Kai]

You could do so many things.

[Jenny Yang]

It's multi use.

[Anna Kai]

If you pick up the bowl, you can use it as a shovel to shovel it into your mouth.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah. My dad never understood. Exactly. My dad never understood the wisdom of Western cutlery.

[Anna Kai]

Although he wasn't wrong. I will say he wasn't wrong. It's less wasteful, but yes, it is. And the whole table site. I never went to like cotillion or etiquette school or whatever. And so I kind of got a crack course on like the way I. I still don't know how to set a fucking table, to be honest. But I, I know when I've been wrong, people have fixed it like, oh, the fork's not on the right side. Well, you know what, I'm right handed and I remember setting a table be like, well, I pick up the fork with my right hand, so I'm gonna put the fork and agreed the spoon and Everything.

[Jenny Yang]

There's no rhyme or reason to.

[Anna Kai]

But it's goes on the fucking left. It goes on. I was like, wait, why? And then you have to pick it up with your left hand and then. But that's how you do it. That's how you set. And I was like, this. I don't understand because I didn't learn that growing up. My God, my parents were lucky they fucking had forks.

[Jenny Yang]

You know, I love that this. That you grew up outside of Philadelphia. Cause it explains to me why you sound like a mainline person. You sound like a fancy, old money, mainline lady when you're actually Chinese. Shanghainese.

[Anna Kai]

And I'm so Shanghainese. And I'm so Chinese. And I've just gotten, like, really Asian as I've gotten old. I used to. You know, I think most kids who grow up because you grew up in Southern California and there's a lot of Asians and there's a lot of diversity here. And this is what I. Because I went to NYU after high school.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

And all my friends from NYU are Asian. So they're either from LA SF or they're from Long island. And they're all Korean or Chinese.

[Jenny Yang]

Long Island Asian.

[Anna Kai]

Yes. The Long Island Koreans represent.

[Jenny Yang]

I know.

[Anna Kai]

I'm like, yeah, but different than the LA Koreans.

[Jenny Yang]

Very different.

[Anna Kai]

Very different. But I did not realize what it felt like to be around people that look like me until I was 18 or 19 or 20. And people always, even when I meet, like when I meet LA Asians, they're like, you sound so white. And I'm like, yeah, because if you looked at my high school, you would know because I grew up in the suburbs outside of Philly.

[Jenny Yang]

Would. Would you call that suburb Mainline?

[Anna Kai]

It. It. I grew up in a town called Malvern. And it's like. I think it's the Main Line, but it's like, what was it?

[Jenny Yang]

Like? It's not blue.

[Anna Kai]

Like, it's not blue collar, but it's not like Villanova, mainline.

[Jenny Yang]

Just for those who don't know, mainline, you know, breed is sort of what they call this sort of set of suburbs just west of Philadelphia where, like, really old money, Fancy white people, WASPy white people lived. And so I would never say to an Asian, you sound white, but I definitely will say, oh, you sound like a mainliner.

[Anna Kai]

Right, right.

[Jenny Yang]

It's funny, you sound like old money.

[Anna Kai]

I sound like old money, but I have. Oh, my God. There was no money when I was a kid. Because here's the thing. There's this. I didn't always live in Malvern I lived in Devon, which is definitely the main. For eight years. But when I was living in Devon, we lived in this massive apartment complex full of immigrant kids. Because it was the only one apartment complex, right? It was a huge apartment complex of multiple buildings. And it was the best upbringing up until I went to elementary school, because it was like the freaking U.N. i mean, there were kids from all walks of life. There was like a Russian kid, a Portuguese kid. Everybody.

[Jenny Yang]

You love an ethnic white, right? I love an ethnic white.

[Anna Kai]

An Indian kid. An Indian. You know, because these were all kids whose parents were immigrants who wanted them to get a good education. Cause the public schools in that area were really good. But they couldn't afford to buy a house in Devon. So we lived in an apartment forever. I was 12 before my parents even bought a house. And even then it wasn't a single family home. And so it's like, people are like, oh, you're from the Main Line. I'm like, not like that. You know. My parents did not buy their first single family home until after I graduated College. I was 23 when they moved into a house with like a garage and a yard. And I was like, wow, we have made it, you know.

[Jenny Yang]

May I ask what they did for a living?

[Anna Kai]

My parents are both scientists, which I did not get that gene. I know, it's so bizarre.

[Jenny Yang]

What kind of science?

[Anna Kai]

Chemistry and computer science.

[Jenny Yang]

Oh, cool.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. Didn't get that at all. Hated chem. Don't like technology or comp Sci.

[Jenny Yang]

And do they learn their chemistry or their chem science here in America?

[Anna Kai]

Yes, partially. They both went to college in China, in Shanghai. And then they came here because my dad got into grad school in Michigan. Not, um, Which University of Michigan, which everyone knows he got into Eastern Michigan University. Why'd you laugh? Small school. Because people have never. Outside of Michigan, people have never heard of it. They called it emu. Emu. And that's. He was like, oh, you know, my passion was physics in high school, which I was like, interesting way of putting it, because I would not put that in my. Like, I would never say science was a passion of mine, but he was like, I couldn't make a living doing physics, so I studied chemistry. And so that's what he did forever. Yeah. So. And then that's why we ended up outside of Philly. Cause there's a lot of biotech out there. And so it's just sort of like. It's an interesting thing. Whereas if you're not Asian American, you probably look at you and I. And you're like, oh, they don't sound different, but there's like. I feel like Asians. They can tell. Like, Asian Americans are like, you're not from la. You're not from sf. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So it's interesting. Like, I never. And maybe that's why, like, I feel like I have more of a chip on my shoulders and, like, Asians from California. Because it's not. You know. I'm sure you struggle. I mean, fucking Burton telling you that your nose was too big, you know, and you got him. You got him in the end because you were like, I'm in a fucking Netflix show. But, you know, it's like, I think I've always been struggling to accept my identity. And I think in this way, it has come out in a very angry way because I never felt like I belonged or I had a right to exist.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

Whereas, like, my girlfriend's from sf. Like, I lived with the same girl who's Taiwanese for six years in college. She, like, doesn't need to tell people, like, she's Asian, and. Except she's like, I'm Asian. Like, who cares?

[Jenny Yang]

No, I feel like your experience is actually very normal. It's a normal reaction to being raised in a mostly white environment and then later realizing, like, wait, I can, like, be comfortable being myself around people who are more like me.

[Anna Kai]

Right.

[Jenny Yang]

You know, and. Or whatever combination of things around people.

[Anna Kai]

That, like, you don't have to explain yourself to.

[Jenny Yang]

Yes.

[Anna Kai]

Which is. It's very similar to what we were talking about earlier. It's like you wanted to date somebody that maybe wasn't white so you wouldn't have to do so much explaining. Yeah, right.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

So. But then you grew up in a pretty diverse place. Where in Southern California did you grow up, by the way?

[Jenny Yang]

Torrance.

[Anna Kai]

Torrance, okay.

[Jenny Yang]

Torrance, a very big suburb. Grew up around a lot of different Asian immigrant kids, Latinx kids, Black, Pacific Islander.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah, yeah. But then you were like, I'm gonna go to the whitest place on Earth. You went to Swarthmore for college, which is a really great school, but why? Like, I'd never hear of kids from California being like, I'm gonna go to Swarthmore.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah. I had a really good guide. Guidance counselor who said, you know, your parents don't make money, so. Did you know that you could probably pay less for college if you went to, like, a fancy, you know, like, private institution that had money more than, say, like, ucla? I had, like, a small scholarship to ucla. Paid less. Going to Swarthmore because they were more need blind because they're rich. They have, like, a huge endowment, and they have. A lot of times, they have these equity policies that try to, like, make sure that, you know, kids who don't.

[Anna Kai]

Come from a underprivileged background.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, by the time I was ready to go to college, my mom was a garment worker and my dad was retired, and they were living off of, like, you know, Social Security. So I was like, okay, well, this is my finances. And I was able to, like, pay not much, just to go to a really big, fancy school where I, like, got to live on campus. And at the time, they also recruited very actively to make sure that a lot of students of color came. So, you know, my class was one of the bigger students of color classes at Swarthmore, which made it fun. And it was a lot of, like, kids from New York. I was like, wow, New York is amazing. Look at all these kids from New York. I want to live there.

[Anna Kai]

I mean, that's so interesting, because it's like, I would never think of Swarthmore as being a diverse place, but it sounds like they did a really good job.

[Jenny Yang]

But they did, relative to the other smaller birds. College, right? Yeah. But no, I mean, my guidance counselor said, look it up. There's these different types of colleges. And I did. And so, yeah.

[Anna Kai]

Did you love it when you got there?

[Jenny Yang]

I mean, that's such a huge job. It was really hard. It was very hard. I grew a lot, you know, going to a small libards college like Swarthmore, going to the East Coast. You're going to school with kids who are children of Harvard professors. And, you know, it's a really great way to culturally learn how to. To, you know, mix it up with elite people, you know, elite east coast people. That's a great way. Go work for npr. What a good stepping stone. Go to Swarthmore College, you know, or become a professor. A lot of kids became academics at Swarthmore. We're very academically focused kind of school, but. And that was exciting, intellectually exciting, socially. You know, we had a lot of. I was more extroverted than most of the kids there, and all the extroverted students of color got together, and we had fun, but it was very stressful. We all took ourselves very seriously as students. Like, it was hardcore. So I wouldn't say Swarthmore was fun, but I grew a lot and wouldn't do it again. But, yeah, I got to have a lot of time to sit there and really think about the world, which is amazing. And also, you know, be a student activist. So I was able to learn about myself through that.

[Anna Kai]

Well, I imagine it was a good place to kind of test the waters there, because it's a very kind of open, liberal.

[Jenny Yang]

Low stakes.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah, low stakes.

[Jenny Yang]

Low stakes. It's not like real life. You get to, like, launch campaigns. You get to do things, you know.

[Anna Kai]

And not get chairs thrown at you.

[Jenny Yang]

Hopefully not have, you know, intellectual conversations. A lot of resources, you know, eat a lot of Brie. I don't know. Small liberal arts, private liberal arts colleges love a teacher who serves. They love sarcutery.

[Anna Kai]

Never knew what Brie was until I was maybe 22 or something after NYU. Yeah. I mean, who was eating Brie in college? That's just expensive.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah, that's Swarthmore College. We go to a fancy liberal arts college.

[Anna Kai]

My husband turned 40 last weekend, and we. We threw a party and we bought all this fancy cheese.

[Jenny Yang]

And cheese is so expensive.

[Anna Kai]

So expensive. And I'm like, kind of lactose because a lot of Asians are like, I can eat it, but I don't feel good after. And I really should not be in a public. Or at least a public place without, like, a private bathroom after. Yeah, but, yeah, cheese is expensive. And all these little things, you don't realize as a kid growing up not around privilege, that these are things. Like, I never knew how to ski growing up. And, like, a lot of people I knew just grew up going skiing, and they're just good at skiing now. And I just decided I was like, I'm just not gonna ski. Like, it's not my thing, you know?

[Jenny Yang]

I learned how to snowboard.

[Anna Kai]

Oh, you did?

[Jenny Yang]

In my twenties.

[Anna Kai]

Are you good at it?

[Jenny Yang]

I'm okay.

[Anna Kai]

Do you like it?

[Jenny Yang]

I love it.

[Anna Kai]

Okay, see, that's good.

[Jenny Yang]

But I have to be on the bunny slopes. But the thing with Southern California as, like, an Asian American, in Southern California, there were, like, slightly fancier Asians that, like, did go skiing and did snowboarding. Yeah, because it's Southern California.

[Anna Kai]

Well, my parents took me to skiing once because they wanted me to have the experience. But I don't think they understood that, like, that was not how you teach your kid to ski. They were like, oh, it seems like other parents are doing this. So they, like, saved up to take me ski to, like, a really shit mountain in Pennsylvania. And that was my only experience. But, yeah, just called Shit Mountain. Shit.

[Jenny Yang]

We went to Shit Mountain, Pennsylvania.

[Anna Kai]

Pennsylvania. Yeah. It was. It was an interesting experience, for sure. So I Wanna shift gears a little? Because you got engaged last year.

[Jenny Yang]

I did. Two years now.

[Anna Kai]

Oh, was it two years now?

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah, I know.

[Anna Kai]

Wait, is it okay? Because. Oh, my God. Okay.

[Jenny Yang]

Time flies.

[Anna Kai]

Time flies. Well, you're still engaged. At least I didn't miss the wedding. And I loved your bit on being engaged and how you just feel like you're better now that you're.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah. All of a sudden, I'm just like, oh, I feel superior. I didn't grow up thinking I'd be that kind of girl to be like, you know.

[Anna Kai]

Well, you didn't grow up liking men, it sounds like, for a long time.

[Jenny Yang]

Why? Why would I like them?

[Anna Kai]

I know, I know. Straight men are the bear or the man. The bear.

[Jenny Yang]

Right, Exactly.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. Choose the bear. How did you meet Corey?

[Jenny Yang]

I met Corey through a dating app that, if you hit me up and sponsor us, I'll tell you what it is. But, yeah, it's a. We met in May of 2020.

[Anna Kai]

Oh, my God.

[Jenny Yang]

Thicken the pandemic. He had gotten original Covid in, like, late March, April, you know, we were just like. I was just like, I got nothing better to do. I'm gonna keep swiping. Right? And we just started chatting, and we didn't meet from May until the beginning of July. We didn't meet in person until then.

[Anna Kai]

But you were just. Were you texting? Were you on the phone calling?

[Jenny Yang]

And then we did phone calls, and then we did, like, zoom dates.

[Anna Kai]

Right.

[Jenny Yang]

I know, I know.

[Anna Kai]

And then you just realized there was, like, a really good chemistry there.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah. I think at a certain point, you just kind of go, oh, I know what I want. And you just kind of talk about it like, you know, my idea of a happy life is xyz. And then this other person goes, oh, my God, me too. You know, and then.

[Anna Kai]

What is your idea of a happy life?

[Jenny Yang]

I mean, one of the things that we talked about was we. You know, for a while, I was dating a bunch of introverts, and I love introverts. But I think what I realized was dating Corey, who's even more of an extrovert than me, is like, oh, wait a minute. This feels different. Like, oh, you too, have a vision of, like, we would love to have our home be somewhere that our friends feel comfortable.

[Anna Kai]

You just had a party.

[Jenny Yang]

Exactly. I would love a pizza oven. We would love a big dining table to be able to, like, bring our friends together. They feel comfortable coming over. We'll make them food and drink, like, immediately. We both vibed on that, you know, right. And now we live that. I have a pizza party regularly in my backyard.

[Anna Kai]

Your backyard is gorgeous. I mean, it's like, thank you. It feels like very. All the Southern California vibes. Yes, but now you get to, like. Because that is tough if you're an extrovert. And they say opposites attract. Right. If you're an extrovert, like marrying or dating an introvert, and you want to have the big party and all they want to do is, like, disassociate from society. That's so tough. And you were doing that for a while?

[Jenny Yang]

Yes. I was dating people that just probably weren't compatible with me. But, you know, in my head at the time, I was like, I can make this work.

[Anna Kai]

Of course you're. You're a fixer.

[Jenny Yang]

I can fix this.

[Anna Kai]

I'll turn them into the perfect man for me. Was there one relationship? Okay, so between the abusive guy when you were 21 that you first dated, it wasn't abusive.

[Jenny Yang]

It was more. I barely knew who I was, so I didn't know even to, like, ask for what I was.

[Anna Kai]

Okay, so. But before the dysfunctional relationship. Let me rephrase that. And, Corey, did you date somebody seriously in that time?

[Jenny Yang]

Many times.

[Anna Kai]

Many times.

[Jenny Yang]

Oh, yeah.

[Anna Kai]

So you had lots of relationships that could have turned into.

[Jenny Yang]

None of them would have turned into a true commitment, because I think I was probably afraid of commitment. I didn't know what worked for me. I didn't know how to advocate for myself or even. I mean. And I've heard you talk about this, too. Just realizing, like, oh, right. The sorting process happens immediately. Like, you don't. You can't just. You're spending all this time trying to be in a relationship, trying to, like, make it work, when sometimes it's just better to just judge very quickly and either deciding to go forward or not, you know?

[Anna Kai]

Right.

[Jenny Yang]

And so.

[Anna Kai]

Well, I think if you have to think about it too much, it's probably. No.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah, you know, I agree, but I think I was just so naive. Aren't we all to just, like, fall into things? Cause you're like, ooh, feelings, you know, or attention or whatever is motivating you. At the time, I would just sort of convince myself that, like, oh, this might be promising, you know?

[Anna Kai]

Well, also, if you're in such a stressful job.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

I think the thing is you want an escape from that life after work, and you're like, I just want somebody to, like, hold me or love me and not be yelling at me. And just, you know, and so that's I think the huge trap, like, women fall into is. And I see this dichotomy a lot. I have girlfriends who are crushing it in their office jobs and have no problem writing curt emails and not writing, you know, but then they allow these absolute trash behaviors from men into their lives, and they'll let a guy walk out and come back and walk out and come back. I'm like, you would never allow this to happen in your corporate life.

[Jenny Yang]

100%.

[Anna Kai]

Why are you doing it now? And so it sounds like you were like, I'm going to crush some balls or whatever in my job, but, like, in real life, I'm gonna let them walk all over me.

[Jenny Yang]

I don't know about walk all over me, but I definitely, definitely didn't advocate my. For myself. Yeah, for sure. I didn't. I didn't. I had. I didn't have standards. Let's be honest.

[Anna Kai]

My standard used to be whoever wanted me. Honestly, that was literally my standard. I'm like, I just want to be wanted, and I'll make it work.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah. You know, 100. I know. It sounds so sad.

[Anna Kai]

I know.

[Jenny Yang]

It's saying it a lot.

[Anna Kai]

I used to think it wasn't necessary for me to even be attracted to them. Like, I'm not even kidding you.

[Jenny Yang]

The.

[Anna Kai]

The bar was in.

[Jenny Yang]

Hell yes.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah.

[Jenny Yang]

Oh, yeah. And I feel like a lot of women relate. I mean, I did that, you know, and there would still be good qualities about them. It's not like they were, like, all trash. Trash.

[Anna Kai]

Right.

[Jenny Yang]

But in terms of who they were in relation to me, Definitely didn't have standards. I just sort of went with the flow. Does that make sense? I would just kind of accept what they gave me.

[Anna Kai]

Do you have a.

[Jenny Yang]

Until I stopped. Until I stopped. And then I started to, like, actually, like, oh. Take control of, like, the rhythm of something or be like, like, no, this isn't gonna work, you know?

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. Do you. Do you have a favorite ex? And I know that's a weird question, but, like. Like, I think about, like, there's a couple pivotal men in my life where I'm like, if you had not come into my life and fucked it up, I would not have the life I have today. And I love my life today. But, yeah.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah, I. I learned from every single ex, for sure. But I would say a very pivotal ex was this guy. Guy that triggered all of my daddy issues. He was Korean. He triggered all my daddy issues. He was much older than me. And, yeah, like, I just once I felt that triggering. I was like, wait a Minute. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I need to step back. I, like, bought myself some books. A book? Why does he do that? It was all about the anatomy of.

[Anna Kai]

A book called Self Help Me.

[Jenny Yang]

Yes. My monthly show's got self help because I love self care books. But. Yeah, why does he do that? Highly recommend reading that book. When you're thinking about, like, how does, like, an abusive man work? I bought that book. I bought these other books, like, Loving him without losing you. Incredible book. Those were, like, my, like, foundation for, like, oh, this is how I should operate. Anyway, I read these books and I was like, oh, wait, why does he do that? Why does this guy 100% follow this pattern to a T? Oh, why does this also sound like my dad? Because of that relationship. I ended it, felt very empowered ending it. Then I decided that's when I would confront my dad and be like, dad, why do you treat mom a certain way? I straight up did that. And it was, like, so scary at first to think about it, but I did it. And that book helped me to see how my dad would react. Textbook, you know, interesting. Yeah. When you corner a scared animal or a frightened animal, they'll react a certain predictable way.

[Anna Kai]

Do you feel like you got closer to your dad after that conversation?

[Jenny Yang]

No. I felt like I had more power over him, though.

[Anna Kai]

Okay.

[Jenny Yang]

You know, because he became more afraid of me, Right? Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

And I bet he never saw that coming.

[Jenny Yang]

I know it's messed up to say it that way, but I think, you know, my dad, he gave me so much. He gave me this fire. He gave me, you know, my, you know, take no prisoners personality. Yeah. And he encouraged my, like, talents and my intellect. But he also, you know, gave me these things I had to work on, which is to be able to confront my. He was the big, big boss. You know, at the end of the video game phase or whatever, there's the big boss, and he was the big boss. And that confrontation was my big boss. It was like, okay, after I confront you, why would I be afraid of any man? Do you know what I'm saying?

[Anna Kai]

Yes. That is amazing.

[Jenny Yang]

And so I felt very empowered after that to be like, oh, actually, I can take control of the rhythm and the shape of a relationship in my dating. Like, that was very empowering.

[Anna Kai]

And I think it's so important to acknowledge that even. Even though you love your dad and loved everything that he gave you, he was not a perfect person. Because I think there's this, like, tendency to want to put your parents on a pedestal 100%.

[Jenny Yang]

And this is Like, I feel like that's a part of growing up. That's a part of maturing as a person, because then you can see who you are for all your faults and your, you know, positive things, and you can do that with someone else.

[Anna Kai]

Right, right.

[Jenny Yang]

In a relationship.

[Anna Kai]

Like, they don't have to be your superhero in order for you to love them 100%. And you. And I think it comes through so much in your content that you very much love your parents. You love your dad, you love your mom. And I want to end on this story, and I'm going to have you tell because I'm going to butcher it, but you wrote in your substack about how you were paying your respects to the wrong grave. And I just thought I was like, this is so metaphorical of your life because it's a really. It's a sad moment. It's the first time you were visiting your dad's grave after the. After the funeral, and you did it. You confessed all your feelings to the wrong grave. And Corey, your fiance. This is why he's. Your fiance, found the right one for you. But, yeah, why don't you tell the story?

[Jenny Yang]

I mean, that's basically it. It was the first time I went back to my dad's grave after the funeral, and I was like, well, you know, let me just, like, say some. What I want to say to my dad when I'm at his grave. So we're just like. The marker hadn't been put in. I don't know if you've ever been to a funeral, but, like, you know, when someone is freshly dead, their plaque takes a while for it to, like, show up. So you kind of have to rely on these weird little numbers.

[Anna Kai]

Well, also, it's Covid. So supply chain delays hit some stuff.

[Jenny Yang]

Yes. 100%. 100%. And so we were just. I was like, guesstimating where my dad was. And so I just, like, picked a plot and sat down and was just like, yeah, dad, you know, miss you so much. Blah, blah, blah. Like, crying. You know, like Chinese people, they love tears of a. Of a sad filial daughter because, you know, that means that you truly love them. That's a whole thing.

[Anna Kai]

And then they hire professional criers.

[Jenny Yang]

They do. That's how serious the crying is.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jenny Yang]

And so I was doing all that, pouring my heart out. And then Corey was like, hey, babe, I think this is your dad. I'm like, oops, sorry. Hope you have a good life. Afterlife. Okay, bye, whoever you are.

[Anna Kai]

And then you did a It was so funny.

[Jenny Yang]

And I was just like. And I had to redo it. Dad, I miss you so much.

[Anna Kai]

Did you redo the whole thing?

[Jenny Yang]

A little bit. I mean, Corey was like, your dad heard that? Yes. It'll be fine.

[Anna Kai]

He's not, you know, he's physically in there, but heard that. And you know what? Maybe that happened. Maybe that happened because that guy needed a little bit of love. Or maybe. Maybe his. Him or her. We don't know. We don't know. Did you ever find out who that was? Him or her? Maybe they did not have a family member coming to them, crying to them. Yeah. So maybe that happened because I like to think that. I like to think there's. I like to find meaning in everything, whether or not it's actually there.

[Jenny Yang]

I got love to go around. Right. Even for the afterlife people.

[Anna Kai]

That's amazing. Thank you so much for being here today. This is such a conversation.

[Jenny Yang]

Isn't it fun when you're like, oh, my God. I, like, follow them online, and then now they're, like, here in real life. It's like you just jumped off the phone.

[Anna Kai]

It is wild. I was. I was telling my husband about interviewing you. I was like, I can't believe Jenny said yes. I get to meet her because, like, I also wasn't sure. Like, it's like, she's a comedian, she's touring sometimes. I was like, I didn't know where in the world. World you were. I was like, I'm gonna just DM her and see, and we'll. We'll just go from there.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

And so I'm really happy we could make it work while I was here. So thank you so, so much.

[Jenny Yang]

Thank you for being.