Never Take Life Too Seriously feat. Nicole Pellegrino

Summary

Brutally Anna: Episode Summary – "Never Take Life Too Seriously" featuring Nicole Pellegrino

Release Date: May 19, 2025
Host: Anna Kai (@maybeboth)
Guest: Nicole Pellegrino (@NicolePellegrino)

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Introduction

In the enlightening episode titled "Never Take Life Too Seriously," Anna Kai welcomes guest Nicole Pellegrino, a dynamic content creator and former director at Betches Media. The conversation delves deep into navigating personal and professional challenges, the significance of humor in overcoming trauma, and the journey towards self-love and reinvention.

Journey to Content Creation

Nicole shares her transition from a small-town life in Salisbury, Maryland, to becoming a prominent figure in digital media. Discussing her tenure at Betches Media, she reflects on her role as a marketing manager and later as the director of short-form video content.

Nicole Pellegrino [02:13]: "I thrived so much more in the content creation aspects, and Betches was the perfect place for me because it was content mixed with comedy."

Personal Relationships and Growth

The heart of the episode revolves around Nicole’s long-term relationship with her husband, Mike. They met in college, navigating the complexities of young love and the challenges that come with it. Nicole candidly discusses moments of uncertainty and the importance of maintaining individuality within a relationship.

Nicole Pellegrino [11:40]: "Mike is my rock. Even when things got tough, he always knew how to support me without judgment."

Coping with Loss and Embracing Spirituality

A poignant segment of the conversation touches on Nicole's experience with grief, especially the loss of her mother at 24. She explores how she turned to improv and acting classes as a means to cope, using humor to deflect from her pain.

Nicole Pellegrino [19:20]: "My mom died when I was 24, and that amplified my perspective. I try not to sweat the small stuff and not overthink things."

Nicole delves into her spiritual journey, finding solace in books like Proof of Heaven and The Power of Now. She shares heartfelt anecdotes about how her mother continues to influence and support her through dreams and signs.

Nicole Pellegrino [40:37]: "Whenever I have to do anything that makes me a little nervous, I have a talk with her. I believe she gives me strength."

Balancing Professional Life and Personal Well-being

Transitioning from her corporate role to becoming a full-time influencer, Nicole discusses the newfound freedom and challenges this shift brought. She highlights the struggle with maintaining structure and managing time effectively without the rigid schedules of her previous job.

Nicole Pellegrino [73:15]: "This is the summer of Nicole. I'm traveling, going on trips, and just being my self-employed self."

Nicole emphasizes the importance of saying "no" and prioritizing personal growth over constant validation from external sources.

Nicole Pellegrino [59:05]: "Always have your own life and hobbies. Rejection is redirection, whether it's in dating, career, or life."

Advice on Relationships and Self-Love

Throughout the episode, both Anna and Nicole offer invaluable advice to listeners grappling with relationships and self-doubt. They advocate for self-focus, embracing one's hobbies, and understanding that rejection often leads to personal growth and better-suited opportunities.

Nicole Pellegrino [58:17]: "Focus on yourself and your own hobbies. When you're in a relationship, maintain your individuality and support each other's growth."

Conclusion

"Never Take Life Too Seriously" is a testament to resilience and the power of humor in navigating life's tumultuous waters. Nicole Pellegrino's candid storytelling, coupled with Anna Kai's insightful hosting, provides listeners with a blueprint for embracing life's challenges with grace and humor.

For more insights and personal stories, follow Nicole Pellegrino on Instagram and tune into her podcast "Honey, We're Home" with co-host Caroline, where they explore the nuances of married life and the journey towards motherhood.

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Notable Quotes:

• Nicole Pellegrino [19:20]: "I always keep in mind that we are all just floating on this rock, and at the end of the day, we die."
• Nicole Pellegrino [22:10]: "Why are we caring so much about things? It's easy to overthink, but what's the point if I love him and we work so well together."
• Nicole Pellegrino [58:17]: "What's meant for you will come to you."

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Find Nicole Pellegrino:

• Instagram & TikTok: @NicolePellegrino0
• Podcast: "Honey, We're Home" – [Available on major platforms]

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This summary captures the essence of the episode, highlighting key discussions and personal anecdotes shared between Anna Kai and Nicole Pellegrino. For a deeper understanding and full context, listening to the episode is highly recommended.

Transcript

[Anna Kai]

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[Nicole Pellegrino]

Dear old work platform. It's not you, it's us. Actually, it is you. Endless onboarding, constant it it bottlenecks. We've had enough. We need a platform that just gets us. And to be honest, we've met someone new. They're called Monday.com and it was love at first onboarding. Their beautiful dashboards, their customizable workflows got us floating on a digital cloud nine. So no hard feelings, but we're moving on Monday.com, the first work platform you'll love to use.

[Chris]

Hey, bitties. Before we get into this week's episode, I want to quickly tell you guys about my experience at Prenuva. Last week I got the comprehensive full body sc, which includes an evaluation of major organs and the spine for cancer, aneurysms, and a whole bunch of other.

[Dave]

Diseases because, oh, what's the phrase?

[Chris]

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Yeah, that one.

[Dave]

And I know you're probably like, well, why would I get a full body scan if I'm young and healthy and invincible?

[Chris]

Well, because you're never going to feel a brain aneurysm until you literally can't feel anymore. And as for me, I'd rather be overkill than unalive. The whole experience was honestly so relaxing, and the waiting area kind of felt like a spa. I spent about an hour in their MRI machine and not going to lie.

[Dave]

I fell asleep because they play this.

[Chris]

Really soothing music for you, and there's nothing like the calming knowledge that Prenuvo uses. No radiation or contrast.

[Dave]

Afterwards, they gave me a bag of.

[Chris]

Snacks, and Now I wait seven to 10 days for the results.

[Dave]

Be back once I have them.

[Chris]

So stay tuned and go to pernuvo.comannakai for a discount on your scan.

[Dave]

That's pro.

[Chris]

For a discount on your scan.

[Dave]

Welcome to Brutally Anna, a podcast about finding love, losing love, and all the things we think about but don't talk about. Enough. I'm your host, Anna Kai, AKA maybe.

[Chris]

Both across social media, here to remind.

[Dave]

You that life can be beautiful, even when it's freaking brutal. So if I had to pick the physical embodiment of Nike's just do it slogan, I'd pick today's guest, Nicole Pellegrino, who left her self proclaimed middle of nowhere small town in Maryland to later become a director at Betches Media. She recently however, took the best bet anyone can make themselves and is now a full time content creator. Nicole's known for her honest and comedic content on marriage, life's little moments, and of course her rescue dog, Louie. Nicole, thanks so much for being here. I am so excited to ask you all the invasive questions I've always had since I started following you. And also, did you know? No you didn't because I've never talked to you about this before. But my husband is the one who put me onto you like during the pandemic.

[E]

Stop.

[Dave]

Yes. He was like, oh this. And you know what? He predicted this path you're on. He was like, she. Cause he's really into like he does nothing related to what we do, but he's really into like media. And he was like Betches. I'd heard of Betches obviously, but not.

[E]

I love him already.

[Dave]

I know, right? He was like, oh, Betches is like the female version of barstool and Nicole is like a really big deal over there and blah blah. And he's like, I feel like she's gonna. She's sort of like gearing up. He didn't say influencer, but he was like, I feel like I could see her doing standup one day or like branching out on her own or whatever like based on her name. Dave.

[E]

Dave.

[Dave]

Dave.

[E]

I actually knew that cause I listened to episodes. Okay, Dave, I love you. First of all, you're perfect. Your wife is perfect. Thank you so much that you and Dave just single handedly gave me the best compliment you could ever give me, which is calling me funny cause I have major imposter syndrome at all times and I don't think I'm funny and I don't think. And can we just real quick circle back because your intro just now. I'm a professional hype woman, so just let me do my thing real quick. Your intro was the best podcast intro I have ever heard. I've been on a couple podcasts by now. Sorry to all you others. You were great, Anna. That took the cake. Not only was it well researched, very subtly though, not like in a creepy, well researched.

[Dave]

Oh, I get creepy, Trust me.

[E]

Oh, I get creepy too. Life is all about getting creepy. And I don't know when it became cool to not get creepy, but it's. It's cool to be creepy. Okay, let's bring back the creep. So that intro made me Go from here to fucking here. So great job. And for those of you listening, I did an up thing with my arms. You just made me feel like the baddest bitch on the planet. Thank you.

[Dave]

And it's. You know what? I have been following you since before I was an influencer. And I remember. Yeah, way. I mean, I only. I've been doing this for about a year and a half and so. But I was trying for a very long time before then. I was trying for like two. Two years, very unsuccessfully, to like. And I was in a very different niche. I was trying to do, like, not talking fashion stuff, home decor. It was, it was. It was a time. But I've been following you for a while and I was just like. I remember when you followed me back. I was like, she knows who I am.

[E]

Followed you back. I worship your ass. Like, literally. Sorry, I'm just cursing up a storm. It's one of those days. Um, no, I mean, Miss. Ok. I've been doing this for a year and a half. And at 1 million, are you kidding?

[Dave]

But there was. You know, they say it takes 10 years to make an overnight success. I really believe that. I took 10 years of straight failure. I was trying to be an actress in New York for a very long time.

[E]

You still can be.

[Dave]

Oh, I know, I know. I'm like, it's still out there. If somebody wants to call me, I'm in sag. Yay.

[E]

Oh.

[Dave]

But other than that, like, there we go. I know. So I'm so excited to talk to you because you've just led a very interesting life. I didn't know you were from Maryland until I started, like, doing a deep dive on who you were. Salisbury, Maryland is truly. I was like. She calls it the middle of nowhere. It's like, is it really? It is actually kind of like it's nowhere.

[E]

I always tell you I grew up in a cornfield. I'm not kidding. Like, picture me running around in a cornfield. I truly ran. I ran around in cornfields as a child. I don't know why. I was like, always in a cornfield. I did like, hayright, like, Halloween things in cornfields. Okay. Anyways, yeah, it's funny because this is so conceited of me to say, but obviously I've looked myself up on like, the famous birthdays thing. You know that love story?

[Dave]

I do. Yeah.

[E]

They like, pull random shit from the Internet and I'm like, not true. Not true.

[Dave]

Right?

[E]

It says, I grew up in Chicago. Like, that sounds cooler. And that would really go with the whole, like, comedy narrative. But no, I grew up in Salisbury, Maryland, Eastern Shore of Maryland. I always say 30 minutes outside of Ocean City, Maryland. So if you've heard of, like, Secrets, the crazy bar there and everything.

[Dave]

I haven't, but I'm from outside of Philly, and I know your husband's from ocnj, right?

[E]

Oh, you really did your research.

[Dave]

So. Because I was like, she's an Eagles fan, but, yeah, it makes sense. You don't. And I was like, oh. Because Mike is from the other side of Philly. Because South Jersey is basically Philly.

[E]

That's what she said.

[Dave]

And North Jersey is New York City. And then Central Jersey is actually, like, to all the home Del Peeps. Like, you actually live in Jersey. Everyone else, like, lives in Philly or New York.

[E]

Exactly, exactly. So that's why you see all the Eagles in Philly's gear. It's truly just my husband, like, putting it on my head. Like the Eagles hat that I always wear. I'm like. I don't even. I can't name three players on the Eagles, but I wear the gear. But yeah, so Salisbury, Maryland. But before that. Another thing people don't know about me is until I was, like, fifth grade. So, like, 11. Is that how old you are?

[Dave]

Yeah, I think fifth grade, 10 or 11. Yeah. Depending on.

[E]

Yeah.

[Dave]

How old are you now?

[E]

I'm 31.

[Dave]

Oh, okay. I'm 33. All right. So, yeah, I do that math. Yeah.

[E]

I can't. I need a pen and paper to be able to do that. So, like, a thesaurus and a calculator to do math, like, in front of me. Yeah, we're creative.

[Dave]

Pretty sure thesaurus is for words, not numbers, but I can't do basic arithmetic and still need my calculator for tips, so I am not here to criticize.

[E]

I haven't heard the word arithmetic in way too long. So thank you for that. Yeah. So what was I saying? Oh, before that, until I was in fifth grade in Florida. Central Florida. Like, Winter Haven, Florida.

[Dave]

Which I also don't know what that is, but okay. So you lived in a lot of places that were not New York.

[E]

Yes.

[Dave]

And then you went to jmu.

[E]

Went to jmu.

[Dave]

And were you always like, I am leaving this small town. I'm gonna go. Cause JMU is not like a big city either. What town is it in?

[E]

It's in Harrisonburg, Virginia, in the mountains. But it gives you that, like, school campus feel. You know, the quad. So I do like that. I got that. I always say if I Could go back in time, transport all my friends, and meeting my husband in college to, like, going to NYU or UCLA would have probably been a better fit for me. Looking back, even though I'm very thankful. I loved JMU so much, but I was meant to be, like, doing internships in the city and stuff throughout college. I don't know, I just. But again, I wouldn't change a thing.

[Dave]

I mean, you still ended up where you ended up, so it kind of doesn't matter, you know? Cause I went to NYU and we're all just kind of in the same bucket now, you know, People figure it out, you know, and I. Your goals.

[E]

Yeah.

[Dave]

And I had a very. Love, hate is probably too strong, but I loved NYU for the opportunities it provided me. And I also felt like graduation was less of a shell shock because people were like, my girlfriends who went to Penn State were like, oh, my God, we gotta, like, move to, like, a real world, not a campus now. And I'm like, I've been here, you know, it's fine. But I also did not have a community. Like, there was no sense of, like, school spirit. And, like, there was no, like, my husband feels, like, pretty, like, some sort of allegiance to his college and his. His high school. And, like, I don't. I feel like I just went to school in the city.

[E]

That's what they say. Yeah, that's what they say. And I. With jmu, like, people that went to jmu, live, eat, breathe, die, Duke dogs, jmu. Like, it's a community. Like, some of my followers on Instagram and stuff will DM me and be like, you're a fellow Duke.

[Dave]

Woo.

[E]

And it's just like a bit. It's like a little cult.

[Dave]

Right?

[E]

So.

[Dave]

Right. But you met your husband there.

[E]

I did meet him.

[Dave]

And I'm so cut because, like, you've had a lot of twists and turns in your career, but, like, the one thing that has remained constant is Mike. And that's so rare because I look back at the men I dated in college and I'm like, thank God. Not because all of them are douchebags or chads, because we now live such different lives that I can't imagine.

[E]

They're losers now. Yes, they're losers. A lot of the guys from college that were the coolest guys in college are literally like, no, I don't even want to say, but they're losers.

[Dave]

Like, just, like, has have made, like. And I don't even think about that. Just from college. Like, the guys I dated in my early 20s and, like, you. First of all, a lot of guys that I dated in my early 20s are still single, like, at, you know, late. They were older than me. So it's like, okay, this was clearly, like, never in the cards for you, like a stable relationship, which is fine. It's not for everybody, but, like, you met Mike in college and, like, you just figured it. And did you guys break up at all?

[E]

There was a point right after college when. Well, okay, first of all, yes, to answer your question, there was a point when we, like, took a little break for a moment and then found our ways back to each other. This was after college. I was living in a brothel house full of girls, basically. Like a house of literally six girls. Can we say that?

[Dave]

So you were a sex worker? Yeah, it was great. I did not pick that up in my research review. Damn, you would have thought Reddit would have uncovered that.

[E]

Those are the things they don't tell you on Reddit. No, I was in a giant house of girls. He was in a giant house of guys. That's when we hit a little hiccup and took a brief moment off. At this time, he was actually like, I'm gonna. This was in Arlington, Virginia, right outside of D.C. cause everybody from JMU goes back to D.C. like, not everybody, but. So we took a little hiccup, a little break there, but then found our way back to each other. He, at that point, was moving back home to South Jersey to take a literal unpaid internsh. To like, take a step back in his career, a big step back to get where he wanted to be, which we'll get into later, but I'm sure. But yeah. So other than that, we were pretty steady. But I will say the thing about us meeting in college, we took fucking forever to start actually dating and actually, like, being committed together.

[Dave]

Oh, were you just, like, hooking up in the beginning?

[E]

For at least a year. I remember going home and my brother and my dad are, like, very respectful guys, very similar to Mike. Like, you know, they always say, now.

[Dave]

They'Re all playing together. I saw that little reel you did with Jenna where you all go on vacation and the husbands go call on.

[E]

Vacation and leave us with all the kids all day. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So we took forever to actually start, like, being boyfriend and girlfriend. I remember going home and my husband or me and my brother and my dad were like, are you guys dating? What's with this Mike guy? Like, is he gonna ever ask you to be his girlfriend? That was just how we were. Like, I don't. I wasn't. Pressuring him. He wasn't pressuring me. We were, like, kind of exclusive at this point for a while. Like, not hooking up with other people, but we just were like, oh, we're, like, talking, talking.

[Dave]

But that's forever.

[E]

It was so dumb.

[Dave]

But that's the stage where, like, that's acceptable. I think that's very reasonable. In college, you're 20.

[E]

We. Our first photo together and our first, like, big meeting. There is a photo of me taking a body shot out of his disgusting, hairy belly button. We can, like, I'll send it to you. That is her first photo.

[Dave]

I need that. I needed a little. I need to edit that, Chris. You need to edit that? Yes, you do. Like, really edit that.

[E]

No, like, that's how we. That was us. And then I think right after that photo was taken, he turns to his right, grabs his friend's jar of barbecue sauce, and uses that as a chaser. Like, that was us in college. We were feral rats. Like, we were always drunk. We were both, I think, undiagnosed alcoholics. Like, we really. It's like the. Yes, Chris. Chris is.

[Dave]

Every college kid's sort of an undiagnosed alcoholic. Yeah.

[E]

Especially, I mean, Burnett's like, I had him on my podcast for the first time ever. My husb. And we were talking about how, like, we. He was like, I knew you were the one when you did a little scavenger hunt for me, and the end was a gift you gave me. I was like, fuck, what was the gift? He goes, it was a bottle of hot cinnamon brunettes. I go, bar was low. Bar was fucking low. So, like, it's a miracle how we have worked out and how we have just seen. We've just watched each other grow so much. We are completely different people now than we were.

[Dave]

But you grew up together. Whereas, like, I feel like most people grow apart, you know? And I think that's the issue when you meet somebody so young. Like, you don't really know who you are. I mean, I didn't know who I was back then.

[E]

Hell, no.

[Dave]

But I think what's interesting is how unserious you guys were about your relationship. And in some ways, that allows you to see where it goes, whereas, like, you weren't forcing it. Have you always been just this kind of laissez? Cause you seem very regimented in your life. Like, you get up early, I think, and you, like, work out, and, like, your body's, like, freaking insane. Every time I see you in a bikini, I'm like, anna. I was like, I Love ya. I have to go for a run now. I'm like, nicole's arms.

[E]

Thank you so much.

[Dave]

But, like, you seem very disciplined, and so it sort of doesn't, like, feel like that tracks with your personality in terms of just kind of letting this guy in and out of your life.

[E]

Letting him. I mean. And like, the time we actually started, he asked me to be his girlfriend. Was because we were drunk, of course. On a boat in Baltimore harbor for one of his frat functions. And I was like, why haven't you asked me to be your goblin yet? And he was like, oh, I didn't know you wanted to be sure. Do you want to be. That's how it started.

[Dave]

But that's how all guys are. You get to a certain point, they're like, I thought you were already dead. I'm like, no, you just spell it out. No, I'm like, no, that's the same thing. My husband, 34 when I met and like, six months in, because I had a policy, like, no hanky panky until the girlfriend boyfriend label.

[E]

I love that.

[Dave]

Because I was older, you know, and I was just like, this is not. And I was in New York, and I was. And I was like, you know, and I think he got to a certain. And I never said it to him. I think he got, like, whatever, four months in, five months in, and we'd never, like, had. And that's kind of rare for New York, you know, Very rare.

[E]

But I love. I'm.

[Dave]

Well, he's wondering if I'm, like, a devout Christian, if I'm like, celibate or whatever. And he was like, can I ask what's going on? Like, if you're not comfortable, like, are you a virgin? And so then I was like, oh, like, I don't do that until there's a boyfriend, girlfriend, label attached. Not exclusive without labels. And he goes, oh, I thought we already were that.

[E]

I was like, no, no, silly.

[Dave]

Now he likes to joke. He's like, oh, like you asked me to be your boyfriend. I was like, no, I simply told you, no access until you were ready.

[E]

My mom used to always say, why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?

[Dave]

Yeah.

[E]

And we'd be like, oh, but you.

[Dave]

Sort of didn't live by those rules.

[E]

No, no, no, I did the opposite. But to answer your question, it's so funny that you think I seem regimented and, like, disciplined and stuff. Cause, yes, I do wake up early. Yes, for career aspects. Sometimes I am a little. But I am also just such a Chaotic person, always flying by the seat of my pants. Today is a prime example. I am surprised I'm, like, able to form a sentence right now because truly, like, the most chaotic, stressful morning. This is something I've been looking forward to for weeks. Ever since you even reached out to me, I've been like, this is. I'm prepping for this. I was listening to your interviews on other podcasts. I was prepared, and then I was 25 minutes late.

[Dave]

You were not that late. You were, like, 15 minutes late. It's fine. Don't.

[E]

And I was.

[Dave]

Shit happens.

[E]

But, yeah, I mean, I think. I'm not. I come off as regimented and, like, I have shit together sometimes. But I also think the laissez faire aspect. I've just never taken life too seriously. My sister's the same way. My brother, not as much. He's. He's like a genius doctor, so he has to take life seriously. I feel like if you're a doctor, you kind of have to take things seriously, right? We.

[Dave]

We hope.

[E]

We hope doctors are doing. But I don't know. I don't know where that comes from. I think it's my parents, who. My dad's also a doctor, so he takes life seriously. But then again, like, not.

[Dave]

Maybe they have to take life literally so seriously because they're responsible for the preservation of it that in their personal life, they realize, hey, this is a shit that matters. Like, they see what matters, right? You know?

[E]

And I think just like, yeah, I've always had this, like, grateful perspective that just to be grateful, to be breathing and be alive and be healthy and especially. My mom died when I was 24, so that's really amplified that perspective. So, like, I don't know. I just try not to sweat the small stuff so much and not overthink things. Like, I. I've gotten into the pattern. We all overthink. Women are overthinkers in general. Men are overthinkers. Everybody's overthinkers. And it's so easy to do. But at the end of the day, like, my relationship with Mike, I could sit here and overthink how the beginning of it started. So not how relationships should start. Like, I could sit here and just overthink that, and then what, act on it and break up with him? No, I love him, and we work so well together. So it's like, what's the point in thinking over, like. And when I say how it started, I. I have said to him before, I'm like, you weren't taking Me on, like, one. On one romantic dates. Like, we weren't your dates.

[Dave]

You were 19 or 20, right? Yeah. You were going to, like, the school cafeteria.

[E]

Yeah. Yeah. Like, literally, the E hall at JMU was a date or, like, a frat date function. I was your date, too. That doesn't count as a date. And I've said that before. Like, if we ever face problems, I'm like, it's because our foundation was weak and you have to build the roots of the tree. But then I'm like, are we fucking good now? Yes. Like, and why overthink the past if. And it's not like, anything crazy bad happened in the past? We just started in a frat house.

[Dave]

Well, I just learned young, you know, you were very young, but you learned together. Exactly. And, like, that's so interesting because it really just goes to show, like, I had all these rules for myself by the time I met my husband, but it really just goes to show that there are no rules when it comes to dating. I mean, if you could go back and do anything differently, would you. Or would you say, no? I would just not really be the mess that I was and let him be the mess that he was. And, you know, there's also no rules.

[E]

When it comes to, like, life. I know this is so surface level and, like, getting abstract here sort of at the same time, but I always keep in mind my biggest thing. I always say to people, we are all just floating on this rock, and at the end of the day, we die. And I don't know if, like, not at the end of the day, you know what I mean?

[Dave]

At the metaphorical end of the day, which hopefully is in a long time from now.

[E]

And I think my mom dying when I was young, younger played a part into that mindset. But, like, why are we caring so much about things? You know? And that is a privileged way of thinking. I realize that I have so many different degrees of privilege, and I recognize that, and I'm fortunate to be able to say, like, don't sweat the small stuff, but at the same time, don't sweat the small stuff.

[Dave]

You know what? Yes, you're privileged, which is nice to, you know, understand, you know, all of our. I'm privileged and everything, but I think losing your parent at 24 is the biggest. What's the opposite of privilege? Like, yeah, you know, that's. And I. I didn't know that about you until later on because I saw you volunteered at this experience camps for kids who've lost and, like, much younger than you Obviously kids who've lost a parent. And I was like, what is this? And then I realized you had lost your mom. And I mean, I. Like, that is honestly my worst fear that I know will come true is losing a parent. Cause I'm lucky enough that my parents are still alive. And also my second worst fear when I was a kid was my parents getting divorced, which your parents also are.

[E]

So I always forget about that. I'm like, the divorce, nothing.

[Dave]

But they still had a good relationship right after the divorce. So how old were you when that happened?

[E]

Yeah. So that. And that's something I do need to really unpack with a therapist, which might have to be you. Honestly, you should see a therapist. You're just very good listener.

[Dave]

That's terrible, because I was like, I.

[E]

Have so many issues, but not at all. You have all. Not. It doesn't look like it. Yeah. So I was going into high school when my parents got divorced. And as I've unpacked it as an adult now, looking back, like, I knew way too much. I was finding out way too much about their relationship at that young age that I shouldn't have. I kind of rebelled after that, too. I was like a bad high schooler. Like, it's kind of a. Sometimes a miracle that I'm alive. Like, I have some sort of angel watching out for me. And this was before my mom passed away, so now I have a whole army of angels. So, yeah. They got divorced when I was going into high school. Still were very amicable. Like, I remember making them come up to visit me at the same time at JMU and making them take me out to dinner like a little brat.

[Dave]

I was like, you two will act like you're married.

[E]

Yeah. And I was like, you're gonna take me out to dinner, the two of you? Like, who? Like, all of a sudden, if Mike and I, God forbid, were to get divorced and, like, we had a kid, I'd be like, stop making me and my ex sit here at dinner with you, you little shit. So, yeah. So they were just good about communicating about us kids.

[Dave]

They were you the middle child?

[E]

Yes.

[Dave]

Yeah. Okay.

[E]

Is that not fucking obvious? Like, oh, my God. I don't really know.

[Dave]

I'm an only child, so I don't really understand, like, that whole stereotype of what middle. I've heard that before, but I don't really know what that means. Like, does this mean, like, you're starved for attention or something? Because. Bingo. Okay, got it.

[E]

You're starved for attention because older child always got the best Stuff first my sister just like could do. We talked about it on my podcast. Perfect example. She got the whole third floor bedroom. Growing up in the house, my bedroom was sharing a wall with my parents. So she would throw parties on her third floor like she had a whole suite to herself. I could not do anything. I couldn't get away with anything. I couldn't sneak out because my parents wall was right there. And then the baby is just. The baby coddled. The one who doesn't have rules coddled, never.

[Dave]

The baby of the family is the only boy in the family in your situation. So there's as a prestige around that, I suppose.

[E]

Yes.

[Dave]

Okay, so your parents get divorced and you're in college and you're like, so what?

[E]

In high school.

[Dave]

Oh, in high school, okay. But in college you made them take you out to dinner as a unit. Yes.

[E]

Okay. Just to give an example of how they were amicable.

[Dave]

Did you know that was coming or did you know? Was that like kind of out of left field when they told you? I assume they sat the three of you down and were like, like, mom and dad still love you.

[E]

So on brand for my parents. They didn't even like sit us down. They. And they were the best parents ever. Don't get me wrong, I texted you.

[Dave]

On a flip phone, like a Nokia.

[E]

No, dead ass. Dead ass. Like. And my, again, when I talk about this, like, my parents are the best people in the entire world. They're my everything. I put them on a major pedestal. They're perfect in my eyes. But for this by, I had heard them fighting a little bit, but they definitely hid a lot from us. I knew they did like therapy, couples counseling, I knew they were doing that. I did not see it coming though. And then the week before they told us, I think I heard them fighting because again, our rooms, we basically shared a room at that point. My wall was sharing theirs. And I went up to my sister's room bedroom and I was like, I, what if mom and dad get divorced? I heard them fighting and I was like crying to her. My sister calls my mom up and she's like, Nikki's all upset. Nicole, Nikki, whatever. Nikki's all upset. And my mom was like, oh, well, what if me and dad got a divorce? What if? And I'm like, what? That doesn't help. I was like, so are you. And she's like, no, no, no, you're fine. We're not. We're not. And then why?

[Dave]

Okay.

[E]

And then the following week, I think.

[Dave]

The worst thing to ask. I'm you know, I'm. Yeah, I love my parents and I put them on a pedestal too. But sometimes I look back, I'm like, you really should not have asked me that.

[E]

No. We learned that parents are just kids growing up. That parents are doing life for the first time.

[Dave]

Right.

[E]

Like, and we're getting to that place where we're thinking about being parents. So I'm like, oh, you guys really were just going through it for the first time. Like you're doing the best you could. And so, yeah, then they told us like the week after. And at that point I remember like trying to make light of the situation and I literally said, oh, we can throw parties at your guys houses when one of you is not home. And like two Christmases, I remember literally saying that.

[Dave]

Oh, wow.

[E]

And that's exactly what I did when they would go out of town to like date people and stuff. I don't know, you know, parents.

[Dave]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[E]

And like, so if I knew dad was out of town, I would like have a get together there. Same thing with mom. And they would talk and it would get me in trouble.

[Chris]

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[Dave]

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[Chris]

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[Nicole Pellegrino]

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[E]

Ugh.

[Nicole Pellegrino]

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[E]

We found love in an open.

[Nicole Pellegrino]

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[E]

So it was a whole thing.

[Dave]

But that's interesting that that is your knee jerk reaction to something really traumatic is to deflect. Do you still do that?

[E]

Yes.

[Dave]

So like when shit comes up in your life, do you just like make a joke out of it? Is that kind of where your humor comes from?

[E]

Yes. Well. And when my mom died, instead of signing up for therapy like a normal person, I signed up for Improv and Truly and acting classes and. Cause it was such a way for me to put my brain on a shelf and focus on something and compartmentalize and throw myself into something where I couldn't think about how I was sad.

[Dave]

But you know, I think there is something to be said about too much therapy and this. And I am such a strong advocate for therapy. I've gone through it myself. I actually recently stopped because I just felt like talking about my problems was not actually solving them, it was just sort of amplifying them. And I feel like something as the magnitude of losing a parent at 24, you might have just not been like. It's honestly like I wonder if. Cause I think about me and I'm like, if I had gone into a therapist's office every week, I just would have spent like an hour crying. And what's, what's the use in that? Like nothing is gonna change from that. So let me try and make something good out of this really shitty situation that like is like, you know, that's the thing.

[E]

Like, I'm sure it would have been healthy for me to talk it out. Cause I did bottle things up. But I mean, at the end of the day, whatever I did, semi worked for me. You know, my classes, I turned to books. Like I started reading books like a mad woman about like heaven and truly faith. I'm not some like Jesus freak sitting here. But that helped me so much like believing in a heaven. Cause I hated to Think that my mom was just rotting in the ground.

[Dave]

I. No, no, no, she's. Yeah. Or I don't. If she's. Yeah, I 100% agree with you the first time. And I didn't lose a parent, but my grandfather passed away last year, which he was 95. And so, like. And he'd been deteriorating for a long time.

[E]

Yeah.

[Dave]

But I had never. And I was like, this is my privilege that I did not know anybody to die in my life until I was 32 or 33.

[E]

I mean, still, I always say everybody's grief is relative for them. I, I, at first I used to be like, no, if a grandparent, that's not as bad as a parent or a. But it's truly, it's as bad to you as it is to me. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not. We can't rank our grief, but go on.

[Dave]

No, no, but you know what it is, is I think I was very naive to how I would react because I was like, when he goes, eventually I will be ready. It won't be that sad because he lived, you know, he lost his wife at a young age. You know, my grandmother passed away very suddenly at 55, so that was like a huge tragedy. But other than that, he lived a very good life. He had two kids and like, you know, he kind of passed the way we all hope to pass, like peacefully at 95. And I just thought I could accept it. And when it actually happened the first night I remember I was like, oh, okay, it's fine. I knew he was, you know, he wasn't doing well for about a week before. And then the next day I was like, holy shit. I always think, you know, the worst part about. Did you have a boyfriend before Mike or no?

[E]

Yes. Yeah. And actually my ex from high school, like my most long term boyfriend ended up passing away from drug overdose, which is something I still have yet to unpack with the therapist. Like, that's something I, I'm starting to think about.

[Dave]

While you were together or after?

[E]

No, after.

[Dave]

Okay.

[E]

But I was his, like, only love.

[Dave]

And I mean, that's why I say.

[E]

Yeah, he passed after we had graduated from high school.

[Dave]

Okay.

[E]

And yeah, that's just something I, I like, forget about. But then again, when I remember, I'm like, holy shit, Nicole, unpack that.

[Dave]

Yeah, I mean that we, we need to get back to that later too. But I think the thing, the reason I asked that is because I always equate like the next, the day after you get dumped, like the morning after you get dumped is the worst moment. Because there's a second you wake up and you. That this person that was a huge part of your life is no longer there. And you can kind of equate this to any sort of loss. Like you lost your job, you lost xyz. But I have never felt the way I did the morning after my grandfather passed away and I woke up and for a second it was a normal day. And then I remembered that this person was no longer there. And that at least with a breakup there's, you know, I was like the queen of, like, rebounding from breakups because I'd done it so much. I was like, I've been dumped before. I'll figure this out. Like, you know, I'll just like, go to the gym and like, you know, do well in my job, whatever. But I was like, there's. It was very difficult for me because I was like, there's almost like nothing I can say to be like, I'm gonna bounce back from this. Cause it's the finality of it. So I really got into spirituality because for the first time in my life, I had to figure out what I believed in. Cause I was not raised with religion and I don't really. I never felt. I'd gone to church a couple times with various friends. I'd went to a born again Christian church, which didn't feel right for me. And one of my ex was extremely Catholic, and I went to a Catholic church with the kneeling and everything. And I was like, that's not right. So I just had to figure out what it was. But I found so much comfort in reading about the afterlife. And I got deep into the psychics and the, you know, the like, mediums and all of that. I mean, what was the most helpful thing that you found in your studies?

[E]

I. In my studies, literally my spiritual studies practice. No, I totally hear you. I feel the exact same same way. Truly, that moment of shock that you mentioned is. Nobody can describe that moment when you realize, oh, it's real.

[Dave]

It's the remembering. It's the remembering is the difficult part. Yeah.

[E]

And I woke up. My sister and I talked about this the other day for the first time ever, actually. I was like, do you remember? I woke up screaming. Really traumatic picture I'm painting for us here. But, like, just so it had hit me literally the day after, and I woke up crying. And my whole family had to comfort me because I'm the middle child. So.

[Dave]

Yes, your mom's like watching from heaven. She's like, God damn it. Nicole.

[E]

Nicole, everybody. Nicole needs extra special attention. Truly. No, I mean, the one book I read the day after I plowed through the whole thing was called Proof of Heaven. And it sounds like whatever it was, this, it was this like neuroscientist man. My favorite thing about spirituality is when we crack a skeptic and like a doctor who believes in such science believes and he was some sort of brain scientist doctor man. So I remember. And he had a near death experience and basically like went to heaven and then came back and was revived. And that you can argue against it all you want. I choose to believe and that really helped me. And then the Power of Now. One of my friends sent me that book. It's about like being really present. And I don't even think I read the whole thing, but the parts I did read really stuck out to me. And then. Yeah, I like those signs.

[Dave]

I need to look up Proof of Heaven. That's great. No, because again, I don't. And I have friends who are very atheist who think like, you die. That's it. Whatever, same. And I think I was raised with more or less. I don't know if my parents are atheist or agnostic, but they're not like at all religious. And I remember I was the one who, after like my grandfather passed, I was like, oh, like, I think he's still here. And here are all the ways he's shown up for me.

[E]

And that's your reality.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[E]

And everything's like respective to your reality. Like if you believe it, then it's real for you. You know what I mean?

[Dave]

Yeah. But you know what? Really I took comfort in. And I agree with the science of the afterlife is what interests me because I think a. We'll never know some of this stuff. But I think there was one thing that I read and it was basically like, energy cannot be created or destroyed.

[E]

Love that.

[Dave]

And that is like my favorite thing that I've ever heard because it's like, you know, you sort of. I believe like this physical realm is just like kind of a portal. Right. And so the fact that like our energy lives on, I think that's really interesting to me. And I don't know if we'll ever figure it out one day, but, you know, death is not for the living. And I kind of am okay not knowing, you know?

[E]

Me too.

[Dave]

But do you feel like your mom has shown up for you in ways and like, don't feel like you're. Because there are so many things that like. And I can share stories with you about, like. I'm positive my grandfather hung around for 40 days after because that's like a, you know, mourning period, typically in a lot of religions, which I didn't realize until after he passed. I was like, what is this? I think he hung around for a while.

[E]

Yep.

[Dave]

And. I don't know. I don't. But how has your mom shown up for you?

[E]

So many ways. Whenever I have to do anything that makes me a little nervous or anything big, I have a talk with her. I get on my hands and knees like a dramatic little girl, and I'm like, mom, I need you. Need to tap into you for this. Like, I think she just will come through me and give me such strength. And some could argue that that's just me being strong, but that she's come through in my dreams. Like, right after. She actually in a dream the other night where she literally. I'm not pregnant right now, just so we know, like, setting the record. But she. I had a dream that I was having a baby, and I wasn't ready at all for it. And I'm getting to that point where my husband and I are talking about it and whatnot, so it's on the mind. And my mom came to me, and I was freaking out. I was not ready for this baby. The baby was being born in, like, two seconds. You know how dreams are so weird. And I had nothing. I didn't have, like, the crib, the boppy, the bottles, the whatever. I was panicking. I was like, how are you not ready for this, Nicole? You're having a fucking baby. And she came to me and she was, like, hugged me and was like, you'll be great at this. Don't worry. You will be ready. And it's a girl, I swear, so we'll have to.

[Dave]

Okay, so if. And when. I mean, when you guys actually have a kid. If it's a girl. If it's a girl, you're gonna have to name her after your mom. Oh, my God.

[E]

I know. Like, Diana or something. Her name is Diane.

[Dave]

That is okay.

[E]

But, yeah, no, other than that. Dreams and whatnot, signs I've gotten. Like, my big thing was blue butterflies was really, like, the. The sign I wanted to. And I've read the book signs where you ask the spiritual realm to give you a sign that's worked. Like, these butterflies were coming at me left and right. I swear, anytime I was feeling, like, really happy with friends, surrounded by people I love, a blue butterfly will literally fly by.

[Dave]

And the specificity of that is what it's not just a butterfly or a moth. You weren't like some flying object like a ufo? Like, literally blue butterfly. But okay, so that's what that book Signs is about. Because I've heard that from a neighbor, actually, our old neighbor. She was. And she's much older, and she lost her dad like 20 years ago. But she's like, oh, I have conversations with him all the time. And this woman's like 65. And I used to be like, ah, okay. But I remember talking to her after my grandfather died. And she was like, oh, you know. And I. She was like, I talk to my dad all the time and he talks back to me. And I was like, I think more receptive. And she was like, yeah, the other day I asked for him, you know, she was like, oh, you know, Dad, I haven't talked to you in a while. Can you give me a sign that you're still here in the form of a kangaroo? Specificity. Right, okay. And here's how it came up. She was like, the next day, my friend calls me and she sort of like. She adopts dogs or like, fosters dogs. She was like, oh, I just got like, these two puppies that are brother and sister, and one is named Kanga and the other one's Rue. Isn't that so cute?

[E]

That's your son.

[Dave]

And I was like, oh, I'm so creeped out. But, like, so inspired at the same time. And she was like, yeah. And that was my dad. And she was like, just like so matter of fact about it. And I was like, I would love. I think I'm getting there. But I would love to have that level of unshakable faith, you know? Whereas she's just so, like, that's my dad. It's not like, is it?

[E]

No, because.

[Dave]

And I wonder, like, what is Mike feel about this? Because I remember my husband is. He was raised Irish Catholic, but is not religious. And I don't really know, Like, I don't think he. I don't know if you. I could say that he, like, really believes in God. I think he thinks things are interesting. I don't know if he really spends a ton of time, but I remember I was like, you making your parents go out to dinner together, even though they were divorced. I was like, after my grandfather died, I was like, you have to believe in the afterlife. I was like, you must believe.

[E]

Worship.

[Dave]

When we lose power at our house, which is quite frequent. Cause we live in the woods in Connecticut. Ooh, jealous. We have. I have a ring light that's always plugged in. And for some reason, that ring light always turns on when we lose power.

[E]

It's the universe.

[Dave]

It's not. It's actually just my. It's actually just the ring light. I've noticed, but, like, the sweet, strong light. It happened after my grandfather passed and I came home and the ring light was on, and I was like, dave, it's my yeye. That's like Chinese for grandpapa.

[E]

Yeah. I was like, it's.

[Dave]

Yeah, yeah. He's like, okay, all right.

[Chris]

We're.

[Dave]

We're. You know, and I've. I've prayed about other things that have happened that he's like, oh, that's a little creepy. So I don't know if I've converted him to whatever this non religion of mine is, but how does Mike feel about all of it?

[E]

Mike is Catholic, Italian, was raised Catholic. He's always pressuring us. He's like, let's go to church. Why are we going to church? So he's very into that. He believes more than I do, honestly. And I was raised Catholic too, but I'm the worst Catholic ever. I always say Christmas and Easter, that's when you can find me in church.

[Dave]

Do you get the ashes?

[E]

At least Mike got him without me on Valentine's Day. He literally went. And she shows up to our date on Valentine's Day with ashes. I say. I was like, what? I felt like I had been cheated on. I was like, you went, and I would have liked ashes. And he was like, well, you were coming from the city. I was like, you went behind my back and got ashes, you little shit. No, but how dare you have a.

[Dave]

Better relationship with God than me? The middle child coming out.

[E]

Exactly, exactly. Everybody. Everything's a competition with me. But yeah, no, he's a believer and he's very supportive of. He's always reminding me about my mom. I was so lucky that he knew her. So he's always like, the biggest example. He's like, louie, our dog was 1000% sent by my mom. And I think too. But he's always like, I just know he was. We found him through this crazy story, Chance. We weren't even, like, really looking for a dog at the time. He's the love of our lives. We're those obnoxious dog parents.

[Dave]

Everybody's like, oh, I am too.

[E]

Sawyer.

[Dave]

Yes, I know your dog's.

[E]

I'm like, what's your husband's name? Your dog Sawyer's so cute.

[Dave]

And by the way, we cook for her. She only eats so you were saying, oh, you were making eggs for your dog, which was the reason why you were late. I was like, that's actually acceptable. That's totally acceptable. Because she doesn't eat any. Pretty much any dog food.

[E]

Really?

[Dave]

Yeah, we meal prep all of her meals. Meals a month in advance.

[E]

We're trying to get to that.

[Dave]

Oh, I'm gonna text you a photo of our freezer when I get home.

[E]

I need that. I need that.

[Dave]

And I will send you the recipe. It's like. It's actually a lot easier if you just, like, say, once a month. I'm gonna dedicate four to six hours to doing this. It's fine.

[E]

Okay.

[Dave]

Yeah. And we do it together.

[E]

You know, you have your life together and you're ready to conquer the world when you're not only doing it for yourself, you're meal prepping for your dog.

[Dave]

But here's the thing is, I don't cook for us. I actually. And I think this is why, like, you know, and I'm really trying to get to a place where we feel comfortable having children, because we totally can. We've been married for two years. I'm 33. He's gonna be 40 on Friday. Like, we should be having. He's like, we should be having kids. But, like, I'm just like. I feel like a mess because I can't get, like, my. Like, there are days when I'm like, I can't fucking get out of bed. How am I gonna take care of a kid? But I think it's almost better because it's like, okay. On a day like today where I know I have to be in the city to inter somebody. It's like, there's no time to do the doom scroll on Instagram before I get out of bed. Like, we gotta get up, slick the hair back, and get in, you know?

[E]

Yeah.

[Dave]

But. Okay, so Mike was really helpful with all of this. You were 24. So he was also 24.

[E]

No, he's 33. I'm 31. So he was like 20.

[Dave]

No, no, no. When your mom passed.

[E]

Yeah, he was older.

[Dave]

He was older.

[E]

Yeah. Oh, he's a couple years older than.

[Dave]

Oh, okay. So I was like.

[E]

I just. That made my. This.

[Dave]

I did the math. Now we can't do that.

[E]

I malfunctioned.

[Dave]

Were you guys together at that point or was the little.

[E]

Okay, we were together and we had. We were living in Hoboken, which.

[Dave]

I know you're like, the unofficial mascot for Hoboken, which is so cute, but, like, random.

[E]

It's so random. It's so random. Well, it's because we're closer to family in Hoboken. We're way closer to his in South Jersey. My sister and dad are Delaware. My brother's in la, so that doesn't count. But we lived in Brooklyn for a hot minute, and it just took like two hours extra to literally drive there. We have our car. We truly do. Hoboken. I say for Louie the dog. He rules that town. Louie is the mayor of Hoboken. He has his spots everywhere. And it's for him. It's all for him. I love Hoboken, though. I really do.

[Dave]

That's amazing.

[E]

But I would also love Connecticut. I've been once for a wedding. Other than that, Connecticut's great.

[Dave]

I actually. I mean, I don't love the commute. Hoboken to the city is so much easier than Fairfield to the city. But I love being able to come in, getting what I need out of the city. Because we're older now, I think. When I was 26, I thought I was gonna, like, live and die in New York. I was like, this is it. You know, I thought one day if I could buy, like, a studio, that would be the dream. And now I'm like, you could not pay me to live here full time. You know, city parents with city kids.

[E]

It's an Olympics.

[Dave]

We have friends doing it. I do not understand. I don't.

[E]

You've gotta be jacked.

[Dave]

You've got, like, mentally, physically, and mentally. And phys. But the competition to get into preschool here is insane. Okay, we digress. Back to your husband supporting you during the most traumatic moment in your life. So, you know, when somebody goes through a tragedy like that, I think as an outsider, I always wonder, like. Cause my husband and I haven't experienced anything to that level. But, like, how did he help you through that moment in your life? Because it's almost like when you hear something like that, you don't know how to respond. You say, I'm so sorry. Like, do you ask questions? Do you not ask question?

[Chris]

Like, how are you?

[Dave]

Cause to anybody listening, you know, I get questions sometimes like, hey, my boyfriend's going through this. My husband's going through this. Like, he's in a really dark place. Or, you know, how do I support them?

[E]

Good question. We always get this too, because. Yeah. I mean, it's. Nobody preps you on how to help a grieving partner. Mike's no therapist. Mike's not even been in therapy where it's on our list. Don't. Don't get me wrong, it's top of our priority list. But so, yeah, I mean, for somebody who's never had the formal training, he did a pretty damn good job. I think one of the big things he did was give me space, which sounds so contradictory to what you think he should do because you think I need him there all the time. There for me, there for me, there for me. Which he was by letting me do my thing. Just total judgment out the window. He's never judged me once.

[Dave]

He was like, go sign up for the improv class. Go sign up for the improv class.

[E]

Not only did he sign up for help me sign up, he would help me get there. He would make sure I had meal prepped at home to bring snacks. Like, he was very supportive of me doing that. He'd be front row at my shows. That's gonna make me cry.

[Dave]

Oh, my God, that's amazing.

[E]

I'm so emotional right now. Menstrual cycle. Sorry, Chris. But no, like, I mean, he was just really good about it. He would hop in the car, go see my family whenever we needed. I think he was extra sensitive too, because that darn guy has both his parents alive. Lucky son of a bitch.

[Anna Kai]

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[E]

And he Mother's Day rolls around, he's like, you know, not shoving his mom in my face, even though he can. He. His mom deserves to be celebrated and we. We want to celebrate her. He was. He was good around those areas. Buys me flowers all the time still to this day, but definitely around then. Just the little things like that, just being there for me, but also giving me the space to let me throw myself in my career. And then also I would have, like, panic attacks where I would just start being hysterical and, like, crying really hard or, like getting really wound up. And physically, this sounds so dramatic and cheesy. But there were times, and still are to this day, he'll just, like, hug me really tight, which annoys the fuck out of me. For the first 10 seconds, I'm like. I'm like a child. And I think that's what they teach you.

[Dave]

You.

[E]

I know this because my cousin worked with special needs kids once, and I think that's what she said. I could be butchering this because. But I think that's literally what they teach you to, like, dysregulate or deregulate.

[Dave]

Somebody who's Having heard that. Just to hold them pressure. Well, it's like the concept of a human weighted blanket.

[E]

Yes. You know, he would become my physical human weighted blanket, which is wild because, like, if you met my. Like, you cannot see us doing that. And I don't think I've ever even. Did I just speak. I don't think I've even ever actually, like, told anybody that. Like, he's done that to me, but it works. And it helps me, like, deregulate. And he just knows how to.

[Dave]

He forces you to stand still.

[E]

Yes.

[Dave]

Which is great.

[E]

Yes.

[Dave]

Because you seem to do the opposite. You seem to experience trauma and start moving in a billion different directions to deflect. And it's almost nice that. And you need that, you know? And that's so interesting. Okay, great. So I'm just gonna go home and be like, dave, next time I'm freaking out at you, just hug the shit out of me. He's like, yeah, but you might punch me in that case.

[E]

And you do. You try. You try. Like, if I've ever gotten so annoyed, he'll hug me. And I literally thank God he's stronger than me. Cause I'm like, get the fuck off. But then after 10 seconds, I'm like, like, oh, wait, this actually worked so well. Thank you.

[Dave]

It takes you out of your head.

[E]

Yes.

[Dave]

You know, because all you want to do is kind of stay in your misery when you're feeling. Because at least, you know, like, how to feel. And he's almost like, no, no, no. There's something that exists outside of what you're feeling right now. So you guys obviously have, like, a really healthy relationship. Not without struggle, I'm sure, over, you know, the last decade or so. But you, I'm sure, have seen your friends go through really unhealthy relationships. You had a friend break up recently on her birthday. He dumped her on her birthday, which, I don't know.

[E]

I'm, like, cracking. I'm not laughing to it. Because poor Trisha. I like talk about this every five seconds because it's wild.

[Dave]

I mean, I mean, I, I almost want to be like, do you want to come talk to me on this podcast? But like, I think I get questions from people who are like, hey, like, I'm watching my friend go back to. And I don't know what her situation with her ex was like, but, but like, how do you manage having like, you know, a very long term relationship at an age where most of your friends are probably dating all the wrong men? Like, did you give them advice? Did you not?

[Chris]

Do you.

[Dave]

Where is the line? Because I think a lot of women are like, I'm watching my friend destroy her life over a guy. And I don't know if I should interject. I don't know if I shouldn't. Like, what's your whole take on that?

[E]

It's tough because, because some of the advice, I mean, you hit the nail on the head. I definitely have friends that are being put through the wringer and I can't speak to it. Cause I haven't been put through the wringer like that. Even though before Mike, swear there was a life before him in college and high school. I like to think I like bloomed early in the men aspects. Really had my. Like, everybody's like, oh, you didn't even get your slutty ear. I'm like, please, honey, I invented the slutty ears before Mike. And Mike knows and you know, it.

[Dave]

Was just convincing, condensed for you. It was condensed. It was quantity, not quality.

[E]

True. And I've been rejected by men and I've been through it just early on. And then I was really lucky to find Mike. But so, yeah, I mean, some of the advice I try to give to them definitely is so shitty. I'm like that obnoxious person who's like married, giving the advice like, why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? Like that. It's like, shut up, you're married. But I mean, I just tell them for me, I've not to pat myself on the back and sound egotistical, but I'm always like, what's the one thing I always tell them? What's meant for you will come to you. That guy who you may think is so the one, he checked all the boxes. Physically, mentally, financially, emotionally, whatever you pictured him having your children. You, you are giving you children. Whatever.

[Dave]

I wish men could have children.

[E]

I fucking wish. I wish they could have periods. I know Chris over there smirking, but I'm just like, that you may not see it now, but he was not meant for you. And the more you can just focus on yourself and focus on having your own life, your own hobbies, your own own everything. Even when you are in a relationship, focus on yourself, your own hobbies, your own, your own everything. That's one thing Mike and I have always done. We've never ditched our friends for each other. We've never. I mean, I know I saw you.

[Dave]

The first time I saw you in real life was out at a bar with two girls. Not with your girlfriend.

[E]

On a Thursday.

[Dave]

I think it was a Thursday or something. Yes.

[E]

And we. And we should have said hi to each other.

[Dave]

I was at a work dinner and I was like, for those of you listening, I saw Nicole from afar and we locked eyes for a second. And I was like, that is Nicole Pellegrino. And if I wasn't with work people right now, I would have come over to say hi to you.

[E]

Well, it was dark. I. That's why I kept looking. Submercer.

[Dave]

Yes. Okay, there we go. Because I was like, I've never. But it's like the cool new spot.

[E]

Yeah, that's what my friend said. My friend who always knows the cool new spot said, it's a cool new spot. So I trust her and I trust you. No. So, yeah, that was so funny. Cause I was like, I couldn't tell if it was you. It was dark. My eyesight's bad.

[Dave]

It was very dark.

[E]

And we should have. But it was one of those where, like, we didn't. But where were we? Oh. Always have your own life. Always have your own hobbies. And I'm like that. The moment. The moment you really stop, like, letting. I don't know, like, if a guy. I know it sounds cliche, but rejection is redirection with anything. With men, with dating, with career, with any life things, rejection is redirection. And I really think the biggest thing I'm working on these days, too is not only, like, not giving a fuck if I get rejected by anyone else in any aspect of life, but not letting me reject myself, which is a huge thing that I need to work on.

[Dave]

Oh, the self sabotaging is just self sab. So. So prevalent. The amount of time. All it takes for me to have a good day or a bad day is to believe them that I'm gonna have a good day or a bad day. That's it, you know?

[E]

That's so true.

[Dave]

It's very rarely an external thing.

[E]

That's so true. Get out of your own way. But yeah, no, I sound like a motivational coach at this point. But yeah, I mean, that's what I tell my friends. I'm like, listen. And from a logistical standpoint, getting over a breakup or being rejected by a guy kind of is. I don't want to piss people, but like a form of grief. So in a way I can relate to having to like get over grief in a way because my mom.

[Dave]

No, I don't think you're being offensive at all. I think that's. Again, I personally feel that death of somebody you love is worse than being broken up with.

[E]

But breakups fucking suck.

[Dave]

No, breakups absolutely suck. And they can be really, you know, and some breakups can be very abusive and, and just really, really horrible. And so it's not to take away from that. But you know, the finality of death, there's nothing like it. You know, Whereas with a breakup you can normally figure it out, you know, so that.

[E]

Yeah, so I just tell friends, I'm like, logistically, what do you love to do? Do that. Is it playing tennis? Is it improv or acting? Is it talking? Start a podcast? Like just do something right now and that will help you get over. But again, I'm no dating guru. Like, when our friend Marin had me on her podcast about dating, I was like, what the hell do you want me on for?

[Dave]

I'm literally, you know, but you know, it's. I think dating is like representative of life. I think so much about dating is. Can be used in your career. And I think about how oftentimes the guy I was dating influenced the rest of my life outside of who I was dating. So, you know, know you haven't gone on a bajillion dates, but you have had a husband in a long term relationship. And there's a challenge in that that I don't know because I don't know what it's like to. I mean, there were guys I dated when I was 22. I had a really great boyfriend in college, senior year, and I, I left him. Cause I was like, there was nothing wrong with him, but I was too wild. I was like, like, this isn't it. Like, I want to see what's out there. And what's out there sucked. I just really, God handed it to me.

[E]

It's treacherous.

[Dave]

But I needed to learn that, you know, I needed to leave the nice guy and I don't think he was right for me. But like, I needed to learn the hard way that the grass is really not always greener on the Other side.

[E]

It'S greenest where you water it.

[Dave]

I know. And you watered yours for a very long time.

[E]

That's the thing I will say, though, like I've said before, publicly on some. I'm like, does the whole rom com life of dating in the city for us girls who have been in a relationship forever, the whole, like, multiple dates, running from work to cocktails in a cute little heels outfit. Carrie, Ratchet, whatever. Does it all look fun? Yeah. Have I said to my single friends, like, oh, darn, I'm living vicariously through you a billion times. But at the same time, I'm like, not fun enough to leave what I'm in, You know?

[Dave]

Yes. And that's how you know you're in the right relationship. Cause I look at some of my single girlfriends and I'm like, that's. That looks fun. But I'm like, not fun enough. This is better.

[E]

And then they're always like, stay put. It's treacherous. Like, they're always like, no, we would kill for what you have. And I'm like, we would all kill for what each other has. That's all. That's life. We would all. That's why I shared your one video. That one time I went back on the way here and I looked and I was like, she slayed that. She slays every video. But you were like, we. It was like the gist of it. When you want the bigger house and you get the bigger house, but then you don't have time to enjoy the bigger house and the nice kitchen that you redid because you're working so much to afford that it was like, that is life.

[Dave]

It's almost like more is not always more, you know? And it's. I think. I can't remember who. I think Joe Rogan said this on his podcast. He was saying that in New York, you take people for granted because there are so many people around that it's like an overstimulation, and then you don't appreciate them as much. Whereas, like, small towns. And where he lives now, I think in Austin or somewhere in Texas, he, you know, people appreciate each other more because there's less of it. And I feel like that's kind of. Sometimes where I get to is like, there's an over. And I don't know if you feel like this is an influence. There's like an overstimulation of people and opinions and everything, and you just want to shut down from the world. And I never felt like that prior to. I actually felt like I was More social, personally, before I started doing this full time. And now I feel less social personally because, like, in my off time, I just need to, like, unplug from humanity. Like, I need to. Literally, the only thing I do, like, my only hobby is watching true crime Dateline. No. And not just, like, I can't even watch reality TV anymore because now I, like, know people who've been on reality tv, right? Like, I'm like, oh, my gosh. I know, like, this story and what I literally watch, like, whodunit. Like, Keith Morrison, Dateline.

[E]

Get at me into the true crime of it all.

[Dave]

That's okay. It's fine. It's not. I don't think it's healthy. And I feel like if somebody, like, if somebody in my family got, like, brutally murdered, I probably would not want to put that on display. But I'm like, there is something about it that just is, like, very comforting to me because my mind is so fucked up all the time that, like, I watch somebody else. I'm like, it could always be worse.

[E]

Yeah, it could be. That's so true.

[Dave]

You could have died this insanely violent death and the last thing you saw was this random dude. So, yes. Not to get real dark here. I want to shift gears here because you built a very successful career at Betches and you recently left to go become an influencer full time, which, again, my husband predicted that you were always kind of about to go do something else. He was like, you know, I just feel like she's. Cause you were featured a lot in the Betches content. And then right around the pandemic, you started building your own own following, which is when I found you. Had you been thinking about it for a while, like, what's the. Again? You feel like you've always had a plan to me, but it might not be the case. What was. What's the goal? Was the goal there when you started at Betches? Did you think, I'm going to run this place?

[E]

No, not even. So when I started at betches, it was 2017. No, 2019. Okay.

[Dave]

Feels like a lifetime ago.

[E]

It really does. It really does. I started as a marketing manager, and we were super small at the time, so I was doing 12 different jobs in a. In a good way. It's not like they were, like, working me. Well, I was working a lot, but I, you know, I was eating it. I loved it. I call it Digital Bootcamp. I think anybody who works at Betches, you learn so much in such a short time. You feel like you can conquer the digital World. I mean, I was producing live shows, I was booking podcast guests, I was producing podcasts. I was running an email newsletter, writing it and marketing it and running an Instagram. I mean, really doing a lot. And then, yeah, I mean, I just loved the creative aspects of that more. I always, back in the day thought I was gonna be more of like a PR girly marketing, Girly influencer, marketing on the back end kind of. But that was me like thinking I wanted that. I don't know, I. I just thrived so much more in the content creation aspects and Betches was the person perfect place for me because it was content mixed with comedy and it was that beautiful mix for me. And so over the years I moved more into content. I was hosting the Batches Brides podcast for almost two years and that's really where I leaned into my bridal era. I was a cringy wedding tiktoker. I was doing all the wedding stuff online. Even though, like, I hate that it like became cool to not care about weddings. I cared about my wedding.

[Dave]

Oh, I cared so much.

[E]

Yeah.

[Dave]

And then the day came and I just wanted like, I was like, yeah.

[E]

You'Re like fucking done.

[Dave]

So tired.

[E]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Dave]

But your wedding did look beautiful. I saw all the posts about it. Your water's dressed. It was, it was gorgeous. Thank you. And it looked very well put together. That's how I actually first figured out you were from Maryland. Because I was like, why the hell did you get married in Maryland? I was like, okay. I was like, that makes sense.

[E]

Not Chicago. Yeah, no, so I, Yeah. So at that point. Yeah. So over the years I became from marketing manager, ended up fully on the video team. After the whole podcast moment, after the whole like Betches brides moment for a while, I, yeah. Was fully director of short form video content, doing all short videos. And that's where like we really started to almost form like the video team became this little like cast. I called us a cast and we all were just kind of like in the videos together and stuff. And so that's where I became like one of the faces, if you will. And I got to a point where I was growing on my own. At Betches, you're allowed to do your own brand deals outside. You just have to get approval, which to me totally makes sense. I understand that.

[Dave]

That's actually great they let you do that because a lot of companies won't, I don't think.

[E]

Yeah, I know. Like, I've heard like barstool doesn't and stuff, which to each Their own makes sense. However companies want to do it. So I was making money on my own at that point. I was really split because I was essentially, I call it having two full time jobs as, you know, as a content creator. It does become a lot of work. But at the same time, I will be the first influencer to say after nine years in the corporate world, being an influencer is way easier than doing.

[Dave]

That because you have so much more flexibility.

[E]

Yeah, I don't want influencers.

[Dave]

You started your podcast before you left betches too.

[E]

Yeah.

[Dave]

So that's insane to me because it takes so much work to create a podcast.

[E]

And this was all out. I was always very diligent. I was like, I am, I have integrity where I am doing my betches work from the week hours of 9 to 5 and then all my, my own stuff on the outside. But they kind of also overlapped because I was doing comedic videos for batches, which I would say then repost on my personal channel. So it was a weird thing. I wasn't one of those people who quit their job in like accounting to become a full time influencer. I was already being an influencer for batches. So yeah, I mean, it was a tough decision. I truly did enjoy my experience there for the most part. Obviously everybody has qualms sometimes with any company, but I enjoyed it. I loved the people so much. I loved the opportunities I got. I got to meet the coolest celebrities and people. I got to go on trips. I got to do so much. I still talk to my co workers all the time. I really miss that camaraderie aspect of like having other funny people to bounce ideas off of. So I'm always trying to find people now to work with. But yeah, so then, I mean, I just, I got to that point where I was like, I want to bet on myself more and I just want to like really lean into myself. And I probably should have sooner. Cause I could have.

[Dave]

Everyone always thinks it should have been sooner and I think it was meant to happen when it was supposed. I mean, I only created a TikTok in 2022 that is wild. So that is. And everyone's like, oh, if you weren't on TikTok in 2020, you missed the boat. I'm just here to say that you never missed the boat. You make your own child.

[E]

Yeah, I say you missed the boat because 2020, 2021 TikTok was literally so much better. But you're here to defy that, make your own boat. It was easier back then. The Videos.

[Dave]

I'm sure it was. But there's also. Who developed massive followings but couldn't sustain it because when it shifted from dance videos to content, they could not, you know, they had not enough to say or I don't know what it was. But so you know, it's about longevity, not the virality I think of it, which is what we're always so focused on. And obviously like I'm really grateful for my virality but again, it's like you guys, Nobody saw the 10 years I was no one, you know, before that I was 33 basically when I went viral.

[E]

You're an inspiration. Like you're out here defying that it's never too late. And so I love that.

[Dave]

No, and you.

[E]

I'm shock you after this because I like to surround myself with people like you.

[Dave]

But yeah, how is it going? I mean, how do you feel now that you're. You're how many months in full time?

[E]

It was February 21st was my last day. So it's been what, three months marching away? Yeah, like three months. I had to count. So it's good. It's going great. First of all, I truly love it and haven't looked back. I love the freedom so much. Like I. Not that anybody at Betches was ever causing me hardcore anxiety. I would cause myself anxiety just knowing that I had to report to somewhere every morning and like clock in by a certain time and be online. They're super flexible. We had hybrid work. So you chose when you wanted to come in. But I would do this thing where I would like if I am on a second pass, 8:30, I am a bad employee when no one was making me feel like that but myself. So that anxiety is definitely lifted. I'm able to just do more, chase more, just not ask for permission. So that's nice. But then there are things that I miss again. The camaraderie, the structure is huge for me. Like today I was late. I can't grasp time management. It is so.

[Dave]

Cause you've always been on somebody else's schedule.

[E]

Almost. Yeah. And back to back meetings and like now that I have time, I've been like freaking out. It's so hard to be productive with your time when you have time.

[Chris]

Yes.

[Dave]

I almost feel like I'm more productive when I have less time.

[E]

Yes.

[Dave]

Because it's not like, oh, I can do it later. It's like I have to do it now.

[E]

Yep.

[Dave]

I get ready so much faster when I know I have to come into the city because oh, the car is coming at this hour. Whatever. I have to catch this train. It's like, yeah, yep. So.

[E]

So that's a struggle. But I'm also just like, this is the summer of Nicole.

[Dave]

Because I. Yes, it is.

[E]

I've never. I really want to, like, say yes to everything. Live my life this summer. I'm traveling, I'm going on trips, both with Mike, with friends, with whoever. I am just gonna, like, be my self employed self this summer. So it's been good. But I'd be lying if I didn't. If I told you I wasn't struggling with the lack of structure. And, like, everybody was like, oh, the lack of pay. Like, not the lack of pay, but the inconsistency is stressful. I get that. But that's not as much for me. Just. Cause, like, I never was a budgeter anyways. Like, I just. I don't know when money's coming in. I never. Like, I. I barely knew. Truly. I'm like, I know it'll come at some point, whatever. As long as I'm not buying yachts.

[Dave]

You've always been quite prudent with your money. It's more just the lack of structure.

[E]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I'm like, I can still buy that stupid top from wherever.

[Dave]

But you can. You know what? It's a summer of yes to everything, right? Yes. And I think that's the thing. It's like, now you have to pick what to say yes to as opposed to being told what to say yes to.

[E]

Bingo.

[Dave]

Which is. Which is really exciting. And we should all take into summer.

[E]

Yes.

[Dave]

Everyone should just pick what to say yes to. Exactly. Because I think as women, we are taught that we need to say yes to everything. And it's like, no, you can say a lot. You can say no to a lot of things.

[E]

That's something I need to channel. Cause I really. At the same time, I do say yes to too much. I say yes to everything. After this, I'm going back to Hoboken to grab my dog, just to turn around and come back to an event in the city that I'm not being paid to attend. Which usually I'm like, selective with events these days because they get to be a lot, but solely because they said I could bring my dog. So I'm like, yes, I'm in. And I want Louie to get experiences and get cultured. Like, punch me in the face right now. And so I'm trekking back to Hoboken just to trek in with my dog for an event that starts, like, right after or the. Like, this is why I have no time. But. And sometimes I think now that I'm on my own and I do feel like I should be cranking out viral content constantly. I use the events and things almost as an excuse to not have to be producing.

[Dave]

But you can't. You need to be absorbing too.

[E]

Yeah, Meeting people and shit.

[Dave]

Yeah, meeting people and whatever. I hate that term networking. But I guess that's. That's what, you know, it's like.

[E]

But it does work. Like, I've gotten opportunities through meeting, like, really cool PR people that I become friends with, and then it turns into a opportunity that makes me money. So fucking I'll meet you. Especially if you don't make me money.

[Dave]

So, to anybody listening, the key to Nicole saying yes to an invitation is Louie. So if you tell her she can bring Louie, she will.

[E]

She should come and bring Sawyer.

[Dave]

I know, right? Connecticut's kind of a haul. I gotta go back a long time.

[E]

Crazy.

[Dave]

It might be over by the time I get back. But thank you. I'll keep that in mind.

[E]

Next.

[Dave]

This was awesome. Thank you so, so much, Nicole. Yeah, I appreciate you coming so much. Where can people find you?

[E]

Icole Pellegrino. The O at the end is a zero on Instagram and TikTok. One day I'll do a YouTube or something. Who knows? But not now.

[Dave]

I think you're already doing enough. We're good.

[E]

Thank you. Because I always feel like I'm not. Yeah, find me there. And my. Oh, my podcast. And my. I'm the worst. I'm the worst podcast. My co host is like, promote our fucking podcast. Sorry. I've cursed 87 times on this episode. Sorry.

[Dave]

Only for a fact. Only for a fact. It's been well placed.

[E]

Sorry if you mothers are listening in the car with your children, but my podcast is called Honey, We're Home. It's with my co host, Caroline. She's great. We love it. It's been super fun so far. It's all about our lives, being married, how we always are planning for kids, and we're not moms yet. Our unsolicited advice that we're definitely not qualified. Qualified to get. Give. Yeah, it's just a good time.

[Dave]

Awesome. Thank you so much, Nicole.

[E]

Yeah, thank you for having me on.

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