The blessing of getting dumped on your birthday with Lindsey Metselaar

Summary

Brutally Anna Podcast Episode Summary
Title: The Blessing of Getting Dumped on Your Birthday with Lindsey Metselaar
Host: Anna Kai
Guest: Lindsey Metselaar
Release Date: October 27, 2024

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Introduction

In this heartfelt episode of Brutally Anna, host Anna Kai welcomes Lindsey Metselaar, a pioneering voice in the realm of dating and relationship podcasts. Their conversation delves deep into personal experiences, offering listeners raw and honest insights into love, loss, self-discovery, and the journey to meaningful relationships.

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Defining Relationships and Communication

One of the primary discussions revolves around the importance of clear communication in relationships. Inspired by Jared Matthew Wise, Lindsey emphasizes the necessity of laying out expectations rather than waiting for a partner to define the relationship.

Notable Quote:

"You should lay it out as a conversation like, here's what you can expect from me and here's what I expect from you."
— Lindsey Metselaar [02:24]

Anna inquires about how Lindsey approached defining her relationship with her husband, Stephen. Lindsey shares that her podcast served as a communication tool, indirectly conveying her readiness to take the relationship to the next level without direct confrontation.

Notable Quote:

"I was using my podcast as a means to communicate with him without actually communicating."
— Lindsey Metselaar [02:39]

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Love at First Sight vs. Intrigue

The conversation shifts to the concept of love at first sight. Both Anna and Lindsey express skepticism about its authenticity, attributing it more to immediate chemistry rather than true love.

Notable Quote:

"I don't believe in love at first sight. Not so much. I feel like I have been like, and you have too, through the gauntlet of dating in New York City."
— Anna Kai [05:11]

Lindsey adds her perspective, highlighting her intuition that draws people back into her life, suggesting a deeper connection beyond initial attraction.

Notable Quote:

"I knew that there was going to be. He was going to be in my life. I knew. It was a feeling."
— Lindsey Metselaar [06:35]

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Navigating Breakups and Rejection

A pivotal moment in the episode addresses Lindsey's breakup experience, where she was dumped on her birthday. This traumatic event became a catalyst for her personal growth and the inception of her podcast.

Notable Quote:

"When you bring up if you were someone that was cheated on... it puts the idea in his head."
— Lindsay Metselaar [27:15]

Lindsey recounts the confusion and emotional turmoil following the breakup text on her birthday, emphasizing the literal communication style of men and the importance of understanding direct messages.

Notable Quote:

"Men are very literal. They are not having hidden messages."
— Lindsay Metselaar [11:54]

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The Role of Social Media in Relationships

The discussion delves into how social media impacts modern relationships. Lindsey contrasts her past relationships with chads who were active on social platforms with her current relationship with Stephen, who is not active on Instagram. This difference fosters a healthier dynamic devoid of unnecessary distractions and insecurity.

Notable Quote:

"It's not about the social media. It is about everything. They're giving you off of social media, and then the social media validates it."
— Lindsay Metselaar [19:16]

Anna shares her own experiences, highlighting the peace of mind that comes from a partner who trusts and respects boundaries online.

Notable Quote:

"If you're with the right guy, it's not like you have horse blinders onto everyone else."
— Anna Kai [18:02]

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Cultural and Religious Compatibility

Lindsey touches upon the significance of cultural and religious compatibility in relationships. Meeting Stephen, who shares her Jewish background, provided a sense of understanding and belonging that had been missing in her previous relationships.

Notable Quote:

"Having the same religion, religious background as me... It just was easy."
— Lindsay Metselaar [32:13]

Anna draws parallels between Jewish and Chinese cultures, both being family-oriented, which reinforces the importance of shared values and traditions.

Notable Quote:

"We're very family oriented. Right. It's all about the family unit."
— Anna Kai [34:05]

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Motherhood, IVF, and Mental Health

The episode further explores motherhood and the challenges that come with it. Lindsey shares her journey through IVF, battling PCOS, and the physical and emotional toll it took on her. She underscores the importance of support systems, including a nanny and a supportive husband, in maintaining mental well-being postpartum.

Notable Quote:

"Having an extra set of hands really kept me in a good head space."
— Lindsay Metselaar [62:19]

Lindsey also discusses her mental health journey, including battling depression at 23 and the transformative impact of CBT therapy.

Notable Quote:

"I'm still with her to this day."
— Lindsay Metselaar [61:45]

Anna parallels her own experiences with mental health, highlighting the societal pressures young women face to appear foolproof and composed.

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Sobriety and Personal Growth

A significant portion of the conversation centers on sobriety. Lindsey candidly talks about her decision to quit marijuana and alcohol cold turkey to prevent the transfer of addiction to another substance. She emphasizes that personal growth and change do not necessitate being single, debunking the myth that one must pause romantic relationships to evolve.

Notable Quote:

"You can change regardless."
— Lindsay Metselaar [58:35]

Anna reflects on her own sobriety journey, sharing how quitting alcohol and medication improved her life and relationships.

Notable Quote:

"Being sober and vegan because I was trying to adopt your personality."
— Anna Kai [57:16]

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Career, Failure, and Resilience

The dialogue touches upon career setbacks and the resilience required to overcome them. Lindsey recounts being fired at 23 for a significant mistake involving a major celebrity. Instead of dwelling on the failure, she views it as a blessing that redirected her path toward greater success in podcasting.

Notable Quote:

"There is hope because look at Lindsay now. She's living the dream."
— Anna Kai [69:57]

Lindsey humorously shares an awkward encounter with the celebrity, demonstrating her ability to laugh off past mistakes and move forward positively.

Notable Quote:

"She would remember that if it was an oops enough moment."
— Lindsay Metselaar [68:48]

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Final Takeaways and Encouragement

Wrapping up the episode, Anna and Lindsey encourage listeners to embrace their vulnerabilities, seek support, and prioritize self-love and honesty in their relationships. They emphasize that rejection and failure are not dead ends but rather opportunities for reinvention and growth.

Notable Quote:

"Success and rejection are two sides of the same coin."
— Anna Kai [66:43]

Final Thought:

"Take care of yourself and don't be ashamed to ask for help. It takes a village."
— Lindsay Metselaar [63:54]

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Conclusion

This episode of Brutally Anna serves as a beacon of hope and realism, shedding light on the complexities of modern relationships, personal struggles, and the relentless pursuit of happiness. Through Lindsey Metselaar's candid storytelling and Anna Kai's empathetic hosting, listeners are left with valuable insights and the affirmation that embracing vulnerability leads to authentic connections and personal fulfillment.

Transcript

[Anna Kai]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart choice. Make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Not available in all states or situations.

[Anna Kai]

Prices vary based on how you buy. Being a marketer is no sweat. You just have to manage dozens of.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Channels, launch hundreds of campaigns, score thousands.

[Anna Kai]

Of leads and okay, fine, it's a lot of sweat. Unless you have HubSpot's AI powered marketing tools to help you do all that and more. Get [e-mail] marketers. Welcome to Brutally Anna, a podcast about finding love, losing love, and all the things we think about but don't talk about enough. I'm your host, Anna Kai, AKA maybe both across social media, here to remind you that life can be beautiful even when it's freaking brutal. So our guest today is very special to me. Lindsay Metzilar of. We met at Acme because over a year ago, Lindsay's podcast was actually the first podcast I ever guested on. And since 2017, Lindsay has been unpacking historically taboo topics on dating, intimacy and relationships. One of my favorite fun facts about Lindsay is that she started her podcast after being dumped by her ex boyfriend on her birthday, which is so rude. And we'll get into that later. But now she's one of the leading voices in dating and relationships. Lindsay, thanks so much for being here.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Thank you for having me. You're so meant to have a podcast. Like just that intro was amazing.

[Anna Kai]

You know what, I'm doing my best not to crap my pants right now in the presence of an OG dating and relationship podcaster, but I appreciate that. Thank you so much.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

You're great.

[Anna Kai]

So I want to first talk to you about your relationship with Stephen, which is her husband, if you don't follow. Lindsay, there was a really interesting quote about you in today where you said you learn a lot about life from your guests. And you said in particular from Jared Matthew Wise. He told you that you should never ask a guy to define the relationship. You should lay it out as a conversation like, here's what you can expect from me and here's what I expect from you. And I feel like. And I'm sure you get this all the time. One of the questions I get the most is like, how do I broach the subject of what are we? Right, Everything's going well, but I don't wanna rock the boat. So how did you bring it up with Stephen in the beginning stages.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Great question. And I was so lucky because by then I had my podcast, and I was using my podcast as, like, a means to communicate with him without actually communicating. So.

[Anna Kai]

Wait, that's hilarious, because it kind of reminds me, remember, like, the away messages we used to throw up?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Yes, exactly.

[Anna Kai]

And you used to communicate with the guys and that if you guys are Gen Z, you won't know, but he used to throw up. Like, emo away messages.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Something corporate quotes like Constantine and love you.

[Anna Kai]

Right.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

That was fully me. I was talking about on my podcast how, like, I, you know, was seeing this guy. And, like, I'm, you know, I think. I don't think I said, like, I'm ready to define things, but, you know, between the poll questions I put up on my Instagram stories and the podcast, like, there was clear proof that I was ready to take that next step. But podcast and Instagram aside, we were having open conversations. And I think because I had just come out of a recent relationship, when I started dating Steven, I had to kind of make it clear that I was ready to take that next step, which is a unique circumstance.

[Anna Kai]

Did you communicate with him like, hey, I just got out of a relationship. I want to take things slow. Because he probably also didn't want to pressure you.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Yeah, a little bit in the beginning. And then once I was ready, I was like, the signs were clear, you know?

[Anna Kai]

Was he stalking every single story of yours and watching everything in the beginning?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

The funniest part is he's not on Instagram. I feel like. Is your husband on Instagram? I feel like even if he is, he's, like, not active.

[Anna Kai]

He's not. Yeah, he's got, like, a weird burner account now that he created specifically just to follow me, because he was like, I should probably see what you're doing, given that this is, like, you know, 80% of your life now.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Right, Right.

[Anna Kai]

But, yeah, no, he's not on.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Which, as you know, is the best.

[Anna Kai]

It's so good.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

But his friends would screenshot poll questions and send them to him. I remember one specifically. I was like, is it a red flag if the guy that you're dating still goes to Mykonos with his friends on, like, a boys trip?

[Anna Kai]

Oh, my God. Did he just come back from Mykonos?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

He literally was planning to go to Mykonos in, like, a few weeks. And all of his friends obviously screenshotted it, sent it to him, and they were like, what the. Can I curse on this? Yeah. They were like, what the fuck, bro? Like, what's up with this girl.

[Anna Kai]

They were like, she's the red flag.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

She thinks we're red flags.

[Anna Kai]

But how old is he at the time?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Like 29. So it wasn't, it wasn't that much of a red flag. Yeah, yeah. I mean, he was single.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah, he was single.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Whatever.

[Anna Kai]

Like, you know, he could have said the same thing about you if you were going somewhere, you know, 100%. Did he ask you about it or did he just kind of. Was this like a conversation after you got married? He's like, oh, remember that? Well, this is something I've been harboring for you.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

He brought it up on, like, our next date. He was like. He was like, my friend screenshotted that you put up this poll or something. You know, it was like very. The communication was always very open, which is awesome. Like a necessary green flag.

[Anna Kai]

Right. And was that, like always the way from the beginning? Like, was there an immediate comfort? Do you believe in love at first sight or was it like a chemistry at first sight or.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I feel like for women, love at first sight is harder. And I'm curious what you think about that because, like, we don't just care about looks.

[Anna Kai]

You know what I believe? I don't believe in love at first sight. Not so much. I agree with that, but only because I feel like I have been like, and you have too, through the gauntlet of dating in New York City. And I have fallen in love at first sight. Because the first date, you know, we've all had those like eight hour dates where like, you meet the guy for drinks and then you're vibing and then you go to dinner and then you go for more drinks and then you go to the hookah bar after and you're like, I met my husband. And then you never hear from them again. And so it's like, for me, it's like I've had so many situations or like the guy that I was like, this guy is amazing. And then six weeks later he's like, I'm not ready after, like, love bombing you for so long. And so I, by the time I met my husband, did not believe in love at first sight. Because I was like, I have been burned way too many times. So even though we have such great chemistry, we need to see if there's longevity there. So was that like the same with you?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Same kind of thing. But I will say I did have intrigue at first sight.

[Anna Kai]

Okay.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

And you know, like, and I don't know if this is a Libra thing because we're both Libras, by the way. But, like. Or just a female intuition thing. But anytime I've, like, been in the same orbit as someone and I've said to myself, like, this is not the end of me and this person, even if it's, like, a friendship thing.

[Anna Kai]

Right.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I've been right. Like, I've seen that person has come back into my life again and whatever. And when I saw Stephen, when we ran into each other on New Year's, which is how we, like, refound each other, right. I knew that there was going to be. He was going to be in my life. Like, I just knew. It was a feeling. It wasn't like, oh, my God, I'm in love with him. I'm gonna. I, like, need to, you know, that's it. I was like, this is something.

[Anna Kai]

This is gonna be. Yeah. If it's not marriage, at least it's gonna be something longer term.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

Do you believe in soulmates, then? Or is it more like, hey, you were in the right place, right time, because, you know, you were a little bit older and you had, again, dated a lot of the wrong men. You were already somewhat established in your career, and so it feels like there was, like, a natural step.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I do think that he is, like, on that level, but I wouldn't. I don't think that anyone has one soulmate. I think we have multiple soulmates. Like, our soulmates can be our best friends and can be, like our sisters and can be all of those things. So I just. I just, like. I'm wary about saying, yes, you have one soulmate. Because people get so, like, down on themselves if they don't find that one person. I think you can make many people. You're the one. You know what I mean? But not many, but, like, a handful of people in this world. And I think Steven was one of my soulmates. And I'm so glad that, like, I, you know, he is, like, my one. He's, like my person.

[Anna Kai]

Right.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

But I don't think, like, the stars were destined, you know what I'm saying?

[Anna Kai]

I think what happens with women especially is, like, we put too much pressure on ourselves to have, like, the one, which there is the one. If you're into monopol. Monogamy and traditional. Because there's always those people that are, like, what about the polyamorous people? I'm like, I'm not talking to you, because that's not me. I'm talking about, like, monogamy and traditional relationships. But I feel like I historically have used, like, the one. Oh, my God, like, the chemistry was insane. I'll never have this again. To, like, stay in a dysfunctional relationship. Because it's like, this is fate. We're meant to work it out, you know?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Like, I'll never feel this way about anyone else.

[Anna Kai]

It's just not the same. Rest in peace. The years I spent trying to fix men because I was like, I'm never gonna feel like this about somebody else. And, like, lo and behold, I did, and it was better.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Exactly.

[Anna Kai]

So, wait, your ex that dumped you on your birthday. Can we talk a little bit about that? Why? Your birthday, like, literally talk about, like, terrible timing.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Horrible. Part of me is like, is it karma? Because I once broke up with someone on Valentine's Day.

[Anna Kai]

That's so much better. I'm sorry.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I agree. I also. It was because he didn't do anything. Like, he didn't get me flowers, nothing. So he deserved that. That was, like, a long time coming. I.

[Anna Kai]

That was also probably the straw that broke the camel.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Oh, it was.

[Anna Kai]

If he was straw and he was just a doofus about holidays, you'd been like, okay, it's fine.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I know. Exactly.

[Anna Kai]

But you were like, you already did not give a shit about me, and you couldn't even fricking get a box of CVS chocolates.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Literally.

[Anna Kai]

Yes.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

The birthday thing, it was actually, like, even sadder than you think, because he had, like, thought that we had broken up two days before my birthday. Wow. And it was a miscommunication, and I didn't realize that we were broken up. So I woke up on my birthday thinking I had a boyfriend. And I got a text from my quote unquote boyfriend. And he was like, happy birthday, Lindsay. And I was like, what?

[Anna Kai]

Because it was so formal almost.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Yeah. I was like, wait, what is that?

[Anna Kai]

You could just tell. Women just know. Men would be like, oh, great. They texted me, happy Birthday. Probably go on their merry way and be like, have a girlfriend or boyfriend for the next, like, month. And you were like.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I was like, no, no, no. I mean, can you imagine if you are in a relationship with someone and they text you, happy Birthday, Anna.

[Anna Kai]

I don't even know when the last time my husband referred to me by my name.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Exactly.

[Anna Kai]

Like, if Stephen was like, hey, I need to talk to you, Lindsay. You'd be like, are you dying?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Exactly. I'd be like, it. We. Let me call my lawyer. Like, it's over. You know, Zachary a lot.

[Anna Kai]

Like, yeah. Literally, like, just fully.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

So scary.

[Anna Kai]

Okay, so did you immediately call him?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I immediately called him and I was like, what was that text? And he was like, basically, like, I thought we broke up two days ago. And I was like, what? I must have missed that, because that is the most mortifying thing that's, like, ever happened in my life.

[Anna Kai]

Like, finding out about the breakup in real time.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

But, like, it was terrible. And then we broke up again, like, for real.

[Anna Kai]

Wait, but on my birthday. Why did he think you guys broke up two days before your birthday?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I have no idea. We had a conversation about, like, and he had made some comment, like, do you really think that this is long term or something?

[Anna Kai]

Right?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

And I was like, yeah, yeah. But, like, he thought that he had, like, laid his feelings out on the table. But this is a perfect example of, like, listen to what the guy says. Because men are very literal. They are not having hidden messages or trying to be challenged when they're.

[Anna Kai]

They're not throwing up. It's going to work.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Exactly. When they're like, I don't think this is long term. You don't say, yeah, yeah, you do. You know, you don't say, oh, he's just being silly. Like, he should live in the moment. No, he told you.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. You know, I mean, I think women and myself included are like, champions at gaslighting ourselves.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

You know, it's like, well, he said this, but I think what he really means. No, no, he meant. He said it. He said it. He's not ready for a relationship, and he genuinely means that. And it could mean that he's not ready for a relationship in general, or he's just not ready for one with you. And he knows that and. Exactly.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

And that was the biggest, like, awakening for me, that I was like, holy shit, I actually know nothing about dating. I'm mortified by myself. Let's get this podcast going.

[Anna Kai]

How long were you with him for?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Not that long. It was one of those, like, three month, four monthers that, like, are more difficult than the longer ones because they're so quick and, like, you don't really get to see the bad sides of them, so it's harder to move on.

[Anna Kai]

You know, you're in the honeymoon phase. I always, like, talk to my husband about how some of the, like, most traumatizing relationships I had were, like, the one that I can think of all the time and I talk about is was six weeks. It was six weeks, but it's like you're in the honeymoon phase where you're still, like, putting this person on a pedestal, and when it ends, you're like, wait, I never brought you off of that And I never saw your humanity and it like, probably wouldn't have worked out anyways. Whereas, like, if you're two years in and like, things just don't work out because you really, this is not going to lead to marriage. You're like, I already know. Like you have some really weird habit in bed or like, you know, you smell or you don't wear deodorant. True story. I did date a guy who did not wear deodorant ever because he didn't think he needed it and trust me, he did. So yes, that was the thing.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

No, exactly. Because I just didn't know enough of the bad. So that's why it was like, you know, it was harder.

[Anna Kai]

So you were like natural. You know, most people go do yoga or they go on a retreat. You're like, I'm going to start a podcast. Why?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Totally. I did it because at the time there were really no dating podcasts. And I needed something. I needed like some solace. Like I needed some sort of communication with friends that was light hearted around this terrible thing that was dating in New York City.

[Anna Kai]

Right.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

And I felt like there had to be other women going through the same things that I was going through. And I, I had watched Sex in the City front to back a hundred million times, so I wasn't getting anything out of that anymore. And so I just started talking to friends about dating and the rest was like history.

[Anna Kai]

That's great. And do you think that guy that you dated for three months listens to we met at Acme or knows anything.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Ooh.

[Anna Kai]

About where you are now and how basically you're like a star because he was a moron.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

You know, he probably has before, but. But who knows?

[Anna Kai]

Who knows?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Yeah. Who knows?

[Anna Kai]

I know. It's so interesting because I've never. I don't have an ex that's in the public eye. I always think it'd be. And I've certainly been the asshole too, as I'm sure you know. We've all been the bad guy and the good guy in the breakup. But I'm like, it would be really interesting if I broke up. I was the one to initiate a breakup. And then that guy, because of our breakup, went on and had his like massive blow up and became like the President of the United States. Like, imagine if your ex was like Barack Obama.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Well, but that's how people probably feel about you who dated you. Like, they are probably getting served your TikTok content and like your content in general and being like, I fumbled the.

[Anna Kai]

Bag or they Don't. Because I historically dated men without social media. So, like, people ask me all the time. They're like, do you think your ex chads are watching? And I'm like, no, because I think my ex chads are all 85 years old at heart. Like, they all, like, these guys are like, barely even. They were, like, barely even using Facebook. Right.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

So interesting. Wait, let's unpack that. Why do you think you dated people who weren't on social media and you ended up marrying someone who's not on social media?

[Anna Kai]

Every single long term relationship I've ever had, not including, you know, the, whatever the situation chips. But even the guys that I like really fell for all never had social media. And it wasn't necessarily an age thing, though that does play into it because we're solidly millennials. But, like, if you go like my bless you, my husband is like an elder millennial. That era of people, they were barely using Facebook because it just wasn't a thing when they were in college. It was like, towards the end. So my first boyfriend in high school is our age, and he just never had Instagram. I've always been more attracted to men who are just a little bit probably more of like an, I don't know, old soul is like kind of an overused term, but maybe something like that. Whereas, like, I have girlfriends who are like, I need to be with a guy who, like, wants to hike Machu Picchu and, like, wants to go to Izu and Coachella. And I never was into that. I was like, it's too much like, have you always been into guys that are. Because Stephen seems, like, quite mature. I mean, he's not like, old old, but, like, he seems quite mature. He doesn't really use social media.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

He definitely is, but I, I guess I was so intrigued by that because I only ever dated guys who were on social media before him just because it's honestly hard to find someone that isn't. And also, yeah, I just feel like more like mo more guys are on social than aren't.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

And also, like, all the people I dated before Steven were, you know, I'm not going to generalize and say trash, but they were incredible.

[Anna Kai]

They were chads.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Exactly. We'll call them chads.

[Anna Kai]

Yes.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

And they were all on social media, like, doing annoying social media things. So that always adds a layer to annoyance in your relationship. And like, you know, I'm sure you get a million DMs. Like, I get too, that are like, he's liking photos of other girls and I'm. And I'm like, thank God. Like, I don't have to think about this. But also, like, I wouldn't care if he did.

[Anna Kai]

This is a common question. Should I care that the guy just started dating, follows naked women on Instagram? And I honestly would not care. My husband had, like, a social media account that he was following other people. Did he follow some models and everything? Absolutely. Did I care? Not at all. And I am not a particularly, like, gracious person. I think I can be petty as fuck. So it's not like to say, like, oh, I'm just, like, above that. It's just a feeling. Like, I'm sure with Stephen, it's like, if you're with the right guy, I'm like, it's not like you have horse blinders onto everyone else. It's not like, oh, you know, I found my person. No one else is attractive. I mean, I'm sure you and I, we see men and we're like, wow, you're really hot. What I've built is better, but, like, go, you. You know, And I think this same with my husband. I'm like, on his bachelor party, I was like, go talk to women. You know how?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Exactly. I'm so happy that you said that. And it actually makes me think of another TikTok that just, like, went viral. I went on this girl, Kelsey Kreppel's podcast, who. She's great. And we talked about how it's not normal to have crushes when you're in a relationship. Of course it's normal to think someone's hot.

[Anna Kai]

Oh, yeah.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

But if you have, like, a deep crush on someone else, that's not normal.

[Anna Kai]

If you're fantasizing about it.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Yeah, like, exactly. Like, you can have a. Like, you could be flirty with someone in, like, a Whatever.

[Anna Kai]

Right?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

But. And you can think someone's attractive, but to have, like, an actual crush is a red flag. And what you said about your husband. What's his name again? Reminder. Dave. Dave. Okay, so about Dave, when he's on his bachelor party and you're like, go talk to girls. That's exactly how I felt and feel about Steven. I'm like, oh, like, someone thinks you're cute. Like, go talk to her. Like, why not? Like, it's not good. Like, it's not exactly. Like, I could not be less worried. But with any. Basically any guy in the past, more or less, it was always a concern to me what Instagram photos they were liking. What, this, that. Because in general, I didn't have the Trust for them that I do for Steven. And so that's always like a, you know, a flag going off that that person's not right for you. I think if they are liking photos and it upsets you, is it really the photos that upsets you?

[Anna Kai]

Right.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Or is it the fact that if that girl turned around and said, I want to fuck you, your husband would fuck them?

[Anna Kai]

They would say, yes. Right. It's a feeling you get from people. And I think that's the thing. It's not so much about the social media. It is about everything. They're giving you off of social media, and then the social media validates it. Right, exactly. And so you. My husband, I think, like, a couple years into our relationship, he, like, got banned from, you know, how, like, Instagram will just, like, suspend random accounts. He's like, oh, yeah, I lost that account. And I was like, oh, are you sad because you, like, you followed all these people, and it wasn't just women. It was like, you know, one of his favorite podcasts, like, busing with the boys. And he was. And he was like, not really. He was like, I'll just create another one. And now he follows, like, two people, and one of them's me, and the other one's busing with the boys.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Right. And he doesn't care. But having said that, if you're a woman listening and you are like, that's a boundary for me that he cannot. Like a photo, then, like, then that's okay, too, you know, it's just, like, you know, what works for you and what doesn't.

[Anna Kai]

And there will be men that feel the same way. Like, I've met men who, like, draw a hard line in the sand with what they feel is cheating. You like someone else's photo that you find attractive. Like, that's a slight version of cheating. I don't. You know, fidelity is such an interesting topic. Do you listen to Esther Perel?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I do. I love her.

[Anna Kai]

Love her, because I think she. She has such an interesting take on, like, why people cheat. And I've always said to Dave, I don't expect us to cheat on one another, but I think there's a huge difference between, like, cheating before marriage and then cheating when you're 20 years into a marriage and shit has hit the fan. And, like, you know, maybe you're going through financial troubles, because I've seen that with, like, my parents, friends. No. No way should you get married to somebody who cheats on you before marriage. Yeah. I mean, that's insane. But 10, 15 years in. I don't, I don't know how we're all going to feel when we're that married for that long, right?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Like, you should do a check in and be like, are we still happy?

[Anna Kai]

You said before that you were like, if you were the other woman when you were dating, you would have gone to tell that woman, hey, your boyfriend reached out to me, right? Because it's like girl code. Which I think is very brave, by the way, because I think that's awesome. But also, I watched too much Dateline and, like, what if she, like, comes back and like, tries to murder you?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

That's so funny. No, I would only say that if I was unable to unknowingly the other woman and then I found out, like, not if I, like, made a choice to be the. You know what I'm saying?

[Anna Kai]

No, no, no.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

And I, and I've done that before. Like, I had a guy like bamboozle me and I told his girlfriend and they were about to get engaged.

[Anna Kai]

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[Lindsay Metzlar]

How did you.

[Anna Kai]

And spontaneously written songs of joy? I Am so happy. Oh yeah, oh yeah.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Oh yeah.

[Anna Kai]

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[Lindsay Metzlar]

And she was like, oh, my God, thank you so much. And then I had another situation more recently where I wasn't in it at all. Thank God. Like, I wasn't the other person this. That I was already, I think, married to Steven.

[Anna Kai]

Okay.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

And someone reached out to me and they told me they were the other woman in my friend's relationship.

[Anna Kai]

Oh. Cause they like, follow you and they know who you're friends with.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Exactly. And they couldn't get in touch with my friend because she's private on Instagram.

[Anna Kai]

But you are you.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

And they told me and I was like, oh my God, what do I do? And I actually called her sister, who I'm closer with, and I was like, what should I do with this information?

[Anna Kai]

Right.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

And she was also about to get engaged. Like, planned, everything planned. Ring was bought.

[Anna Kai]

Did you know the guy had you spent time with him?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I didn't know. No, I never met him.

[Anna Kai]

Okay.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

But I knew that they didn't like him already. Like, the family didn't really love him.

[Anna Kai]

So it wasn't totally out of left field. I think it was always like, interesting when it's like, oh my God, we had no idea. He seemed like the most amazing guy. That's horrifying to me because I'm like, that's sociopathic behavior beyond.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Yeah, but that happens too. Oh, but, but anyway, so I ended up telling her and she was so.

[Anna Kai]

Grateful and she was okay. So the two experiences you've had, like, they've both been happy to find out where it's like, totally. I mean, I've heard of situations where like, they don't want to know. It's almost like, hey, they kind of deep seated in their hearts, like, new already.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I feel like you can tell when there's a person who doesn't want to know. And there are people like that.

[Anna Kai]

Oh, yeah.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

And those people should marry people who cheat.

[Anna Kai]

That's true. Because you know what? I always think about it. There are men who cheat and women who cheat, quite frankly. And they end up married with kids. And like, sometimes they're happy. You know, it's like Everyone. And maybe that's where.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Maybe they have an open relationship.

[Anna Kai]

Exactly. That's where polyamory comes into play. It's like, you know what? If monogamy and traditional marriage is not for you, you should figure out a space that is for you, instead of trying to lie about who you are. On a much lesser scale. I feel like I was dating all the wrong guys in New York City because I was, like, trying to be the girl. I wasn't. Like, I was trying to be the cool girl. Like, I don't care. I'll hook up with men, whatever. And it's like, you're just lying about who you are and you're attracting the wrong person. Right. With Stephen, it's like, did you guys talk about cheating? Was it like a. You know. Because I feel like it's sort of a conversation you bring up early on to see where people stand.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I actually feel the opposite. I don't think that you bring it up. I think that when you bring up if you were someone that was cheated on.

[Anna Kai]

Yes.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

And you bring it up, it's the same thing as if you're. If Dave has, like, a hot assistant, right? And let's say his assistant's name is Cindy. And you're always like, oh, Cindy's so attractive. Like, are you sure you're not attracted to her? Cindy looks so good. It kind of makes me nervous that Cindy's your assistant. Like, you're always bringing it up. Then it literally puts the idea in his head, oh, Cindy is hot. Cindy's my hot assistant. I never even thought about her, like, that.

[Anna Kai]

Men are so simple.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

So simple, right? And so if you are in a relationship with a man, it's like the beginning stages, and you're like, so my last three boyfriends cheated on me. So I need you to know that, like, that's not something that I'm okay with.

[Anna Kai]

They're like, what does he think you're the type of girl that I could possibly cheat on?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Why? And why, I wonder? Why did these guys cheat on you? What did you do? And I'm not saying that all men are sinister and evil and think like this, but it's planting a seed that doesn't need to be planted.

[Anna Kai]

Right.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

We never talked about cheating. I think cheating came up, like, maybe a year into us dating when I put an episode out about my past cheating trauma, and he was like, oh, I didn't even, like, realize, you know, this so and so cheated on you. And I was like, yeah, they were trash. Like, it was in high school. Whatever, and then moved it along. I never needed to have like a tell all with him about idiots that I dated in the past and how they treated me, because that's not the standard that I have now.

[Anna Kai]

Was he in New York for a while before he met you?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Yeah, Boston and then New York.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. So, like in major cities, I feel like men go through this dating process in our twenties in the cities unscathed. They're like, yeah, I haven't met the right person yet, but it's been fine. I've just been living my life. Like, was he very similar to that or was he like, no, I had a long term relationship. Like, it was really terrible. Like, you know, he had a long.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Term relationship and it was four years and then they broke up when he had just started business school. And then he was single for six years and he was literally just like living his best life. What was Dave's situation when you met?

[Anna Kai]

Very similar. He was in a relationship for a year and a half, two years. He said it never really got that serious. Like, never moved in together. And they broke up when she brought up moving in together, because he was like, this is just, you know, he's.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

He didn't see it long term.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah, he was like, there was nothing wrong with her, but I just kind of felt like this wasn't it.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Right.

[Anna Kai]

And then he was single for four and a half years, dating, you know, trying to date, but just never. Because again, I think men are raised differently. They're not like, hey, I have to be. Be with somebody in order to feel valuable. So he wasn't in a rush, even though he was 34 when I met him. And so I'm sure he was like, my parents had like, kind of given up on me because, you know, they're from a different era. They don't realize 34, New York City is like 25, totally for a man. So it was a very similar situation.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Yeah, that's really interesting. I also, during him being single for the six years, he would go out on dates with girls and like, sometimes they'd be good dates and then he would never ask them on a second date. And I knew that because I knew his. Some of his girlfriends and like, they would tell me this because I actually knew Stephen from back in the day because he went to high school with one of my best friends from college. So I had heard this about him. And then I did this thing, which I feel like you'll totally love.

[Anna Kai]

Okay.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Where when someone told, like when the girl, the mutual girlfriend told me That I was like, oh, like, you know, that's. That's really scary to hear, right? Because you hear that and you're like, what if we go on this great first date and then I never hear from him? I never hear from him again. And I'm just one of these all.

[Anna Kai]

The time in New York City.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

And I'm just one of these girls that he does too. So right before our first date, because I had, like, forced him to come to one of my mixers and we were flirting at the mixer, I said to him, instead of being like, I heard you never ask girls on a second date. I said, listen to this. Reframe.

[Anna Kai]

Gosh.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I said, like, I'm gonna mess it up. But it was basically the switch of, like, I heard that you never get second dates or something like that.

[Anna Kai]

Like, basically, like, basically, like, I heard.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

That, like, the girls never want to go out with you after the first date.

[Anna Kai]

Brilliant.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

So what are you doing wrong kind of thing.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah, I heard you. Or like, maybe like, I heard you've never made it to like a second date.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Exactly.

[Anna Kai]

What's wrong with you?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Exactly.

[Anna Kai]

What do I need to know?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Exactly? Instead of being like, I heard you're like, not into girls after because it's.

[Anna Kai]

Like, what can I do?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Sounds so much more confident. Yeah. You know, and I think that's a huge part of why we ended up together.

[Anna Kai]

Do you remember what he said?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I think he was like, oh, who said that? You know, like, he was, like, upset, he was pissed. I think he even went up to the friend cuz she was at that event and she was like, what the. And he was like, what?

[Anna Kai]

The fragile male ego. That's hilarious. That's so interesting. So wait, so you're Jewish, right? But you're not, like, you're not extremely religious? I think you said, is Stephen Jewish?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

He is, yeah.

[Anna Kai]

Was that important to you?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

No, it wasn't important at all.

[Anna Kai]

Okay.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

And basically every guy I dated before him wasn't Jewish.

[Anna Kai]

Okay.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

And it's not that I'm like, mad that Stephen's Jewish too. Like, trust me, it makes my life a lot easier. Right? And I always knew that my life would be easier if I ended up with someone with the same religion, religious background as me. With any religion, really. I feel like that's the case. Right? Like, it's just easy if you both happen to have the same religion.

[Anna Kai]

It's culture too. It's not culture, religion. It's like how you were raised and, like, not having to explain yourself almost.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

And I just felt like, there were like, a lot of the Jewish men that I had dated were not falling under my type. And it wasn't like the fact that they were Jewish. It was just like, you know, like they were mama's boys or like they were. There was.

[Anna Kai]

We were like, too similar stereotype or something.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Exactly.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

And. And my last relationship before Stephen, he wasn't Jewish. And he, like, he was a great guy, but he lacked this kind of, like, warmness that I felt was the cultural part of being Jewish too. Like this ability to just talk, have a conversation with anyone, like to schmooze with anyone, as they say. And when I met Steven, it was truly just a bonus that he was the same religion, but him being Jewish also, it led to a level of understanding. His family immediately felt closer to me. When I met them, I often felt like a lot of these non Jewish families, and of course, everyone's different, but the ones that, you know, my exes were in, the moms were like, a little colder. There wasn't like. It just wasn't. It just didn't feel homey to me.

[Anna Kai]

Well, I think what is interesting about Jewish culture, because I'm Chinese, I've always thought that Jewish and Chinese culture are very similar.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Very similar.

[Anna Kai]

We're very family oriented. Right. It's all about the family unit. And it's kind of like you don't operate. Your life doesn't operate in a vacuum. Your life operates like, as a part of your family. And I just find, like, my Jewish friends understand how close I am with my parents. That's not to say, like, non Jewish people have distant relationships. There's just a little bit more of an intergenerational connection. And so maybe that's what you were feeling. Your parents are still in the city, right?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Yeah, they are.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. So it's like you probably see them more than the average 30 something.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Right. And I want someone to understand that.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. And they're not like, why are you always going home? Why are you always calling your mom for everything? You know? And it's just like, this is just the way I grew up.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Totally.

[Anna Kai]

I have girlfriends who are Asian who are like, I would never date a guy that is not from my background. How important do you think that is?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I actually don't think it's important. I have tons of friends in interfaith relationships. I actually have a friend who's Chinese and she's with, like, just, you know, your typical white guy who does.

[Anna Kai]

Is super Chinese at all.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Exactly. And it did take her a long time to introduce him to her. Her mom. Her dad passed away, but she was very hesitant about it. Her family's very traditional, and he's not even Jewish. And sometimes I feel like it's almost better when they're.

[Anna Kai]

Because there's at least something for some.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Of the Jewish people. Exactly, exactly. And you know what? It worked out. And they're getting married, and. And it's like a bunch of my other couple friends. Like, I. You know, I have two friends who are Muslim who are with Jews. Like, it just.

[Anna Kai]

It's about your connection dynamic.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Very interesting.

[Anna Kai]

That's really. Especially in this day and age.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Exactly.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

And you know what? It's about your dynamic, your understanding of one another. And I think at the end of the day, it's about what it's always about where the guy has to like the girl a little bit more.

[Anna Kai]

I so agree with that. I feel like because of the way we're hardwired, you know, Hunter, gather all that stuff. Men have to feel like they can't afford to lose you in order to keep you. Right. Whereas they feel like if they feel like they can do better, they will go do better. And I feel like I was in a lot of relationships like that where it was like, I knew they liked me, they were into me and everything, but I always just felt like they were possibly looking for an upgrade. And when I'm sure you met Steven, you were like, wow, this guy thinks I'm like, God's gift to man. You sort of need that.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

You need. Your man has to feel so lucky to have you.

[Anna Kai]

Right.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

He has to literally wake up every day and kiss the ground that you walk on, because he is so grateful. And, of course, you should feel so lucky to have him.

[Anna Kai]

Right?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

But he's luckier.

[Anna Kai]

He's luckier. And I think. But here's the other thing, is I also think that sometimes women take this. Because I've seen friends take this bit of advice and think, well, I should date a guy. And I did this in my early 20s. I should date a guy that will never leave me because I am so unattracted to him. I couldn't care. Like, I know, but I did that. I dated men that. I was like, okay, I am almost, in a way, like, I, you know, so out of your league that, like, I know you'll never leave me.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

That's the guy that cheats, actually.

[Anna Kai]

Yes, I know. That's the guy that is like, wow, I did this. Now I can do more.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Exactly.

[Anna Kai]

Yes.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Yep.

[Anna Kai]

So it's so funny. I know somebody from high school who married a guy who had, like, no family, was, like, you know, had a really, really dysfunctional family system growing up. He was heavily obese and had struggled with his weight all through his life. And they met and got married, and she had a great family unit. They, I think, paid for his gastric bypass surgery. He lost a ton of weight.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Oh, God, I'm so mad already.

[Anna Kai]

And then he cheated on her and left her after he got. After he lost, like, 150 pounds.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Disgusting behavior.

[Anna Kai]

And like, after, you know, her family adopted him into the family. He had nothing. Isn't that insane?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

That's horrific. And that's why we do not fall for potential lady breaking the fourth wall here.

[Anna Kai]

I know. No, you should not fall for a guy or commit to somebody only because you feel like they're safe. One of the guys I lived with, and I was like, I. I'm with you because I know you would never leave me. And what had happened was. And I think this is a good piece of advice for everybody. Like, if I were to go back in time and tell my ex this, because he was actually a great guy, but, like, I should not have been in a relationship with him as long as I did. I actually. I went on a date with this guy, my ex. Like, we were three dates in, and I was like, I'm not feeling it. You know? And I told him. I was like, hey, I think you're great. But, like, I just don't. It's like, friend chemistry. And he was like, totally cool. Like, let's be friends. And I was 24 when I met him, so I was like, yeah, let's be friends. Friends. Like, I. I no longer believe that you can be friends with somebody that you've started off dating. Right.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Of course.

[Anna Kai]

But we started being friends. Obviously, his intent was to change that friendship into more, and it did. And I feel like I let myself be convinced into being with him because he was a great guy. Because, you know, sometimes it's tough. You're like, wait, I'm not attracted to you, but you're, like, such a good guy. And we talked about this on your podcast. Just because he's a good guy doesn't mean he's the right guy.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Yep.

[Anna Kai]

And I ended up wasting a lot of our time.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

When you knew at day three.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah, exactly. Like, I broke up with you. And the same thing for women. It's like, you know, he broke up with me, but then he kind of came back. Cause he was bored or he couldn't find Any better, the next woman you know. It's like, I wish I could go back in time and tell that guy. It's like, I wish you did not try and convince me to like you because you could have been spending that time finding a woman who was just over the moon. Totally for you.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Totally. That's why I love my 9010 rule, which is like, 90% security, 10% insecurity.

[Anna Kai]

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[Lindsay Metzlar]

You need to have that. If you're 100% secure. Not. Not 100% secure, but 100% positive that this guy's never going to get anyone else, never going to leave you, always going to be on the couch, right? Terrible.

[Anna Kai]

Well, here's the thing. It's like, you are so. For those of you don't know, Lindsay just had a baby, and you're a mom now. And, like, I have heard that from all my mom friends. Like, shit gets real and unromantic when you bring a child into the picture. Like, marriage actually doesn't change that much. We got married, and I was like, it was just a piece of paper. Like, nothing changed. We still live our hot, sexy lives. Like, we can go out to dinner whenever we want, stay out as late as we want. How do you keep that kind of mystique alive? Cause you always say you have to be forever dating your partner. Right? That's one of your, I think, gems is how do you continue dating in the midst of all this? In. In the midst of poopy diapers.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Totally. And it is hard. And I will say, if you are in a couple and you guys already have some issues, do not bring a baby into your relationship. Do not. Because you have to be so solid before you have a baby. It is crazy because it will test the shit out of your relationship and you will, like, all of a sudden bicker about things that, like, you know, it just happens. It's just the natural progression. And especially in the newborn phase where we're in now, like, we are in it and we're going to get out of it and we're going to be sexier again. And, like, we're still sexy sometimes, right? But last night was a perfect example. We went on a date Night for the first time since we started with our nanny. Right. And it was like the first time that we were out, the two of us. And of course, we're checking the monitor, like, most of the date.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

And I'm like, are we going to be doing this every time we have a date night? Because then, like, why are we going on a date night? You know what I mean?

[Anna Kai]

Exactly.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

And we were laughing and we were like, for a little bit. Yeah, we are. That's just what it is. But I think you just have to block. Not block the baby out. Pretend they don't exist. But when you're actually having the physical act of sex, you cannot be thinking about your baby. You have to be thinking about your partner.

[Anna Kai]

You just have and, like, the. It's like, presence, Right. It's like how people are saying, like, be present when you're with friends or whatever. Be present with your husband. And I think so many people take each other for granted once they get into a very comfortable relationship phase or once they get married or once they have a kid, that it's like, you're no longer present. And then people, like, 10 years that are like, why don't we talk anymore? Is because we don't know how to sit together without looking at our phones and being like, oh, what's going on? You know?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Yeah. Stay present with your partner. And if you can afford childcare, use that to your advantage to do things that still make you feel sexy and feel like yourself. Like going to a workout class or getting a facial or like your husband going to the gym or whatever it is that still makes you feel good and feel like yourself.

[Anna Kai]

Do you guys have, like, now that you have a nanny? I know this is all very new. So are you trying to incorporate, like, weekly date nights, like, on a schedule, or is it more just, like, let's just see how this goes. Like, totally.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Let's just see how it goes. I am am not into the scheduled weekly date night. I just, like, don't. I think that's unsexy. And I have friends that do it, and it works for them. And I'm like, there's no hate for that. Like, if it works for you, amazing. And if you are that, like, you know, if it's so hard to, like, find a night, then, like, that's what you need. You need to have that night. Right. And it's important to you. For us, like, if something comes up, we'll go and, like, we'll run with it. But we're not scheduling those things.

[Anna Kai]

You're both more spontaneous.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Exactly. And especially when it comes to sex. Like, I. I cannot be scheduling that shit.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. Well, here's the thing. It's like. And I wanted to talk to you about this because you've talked about this a lot, but I'm curious to talk to you one on one. You went through ivf, and I'm sure to get to that point, you were not going through IVF because you. You were young when you started trying to have a kid. And so I've heard from my friends who've had babies, like, when you start trying, it is incredibly unsexy because you do have to have sex on a schedule, because there's basically two days a month that women can get pregnant.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Yep.

[Anna Kai]

And so it's, like, always funny. It's like, oh, you know, when people get accidentally pregnant, it's like they just happened to have sex on those days.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

On those due dates.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

That's crazy.

[Anna Kai]

What was that? Did you guys, like, definitively start trying, or were you just like, I'm just gonna get off birth control? And let's see.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

It's like we started being like, I'm gonna get off birth control. And then, like, very quickly, I was like, okay, like, let's, like, figure this out. You know, it was a little more.

[Anna Kai]

You getting your period.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Cause I wasn't getting my period.

[Anna Kai]

So you knew kind of something was wrong.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I knew something was wrong. But it was funny because every time I didn't get my period, like, that month, I was like, I'm pregnant. Like, I, like, was so delusional and, like. And, like, positive. I was like, oh, it's just because I'm pregnant. It's not because I'm like, you know, something's wrong with me.

[Anna Kai]

That's so optimistic. I.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Right. So, so delusionally optimistic. And then eventually, we actually ended up doing, like, these trigger shots which trigger ovulation. Then you have to have sex in a little window. So I would literally be like, get hard. Let's go.

[Anna Kai]

And he was like, do you realize.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

That that's not how it works? That is not how it works.

[Anna Kai]

Like pulling a porn. Like, look at them. No.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Fully. Fully. I'm like, please go do something, and then come back hard. Like, I cannot. This is not my problem. It's yours. Like, I'm ready.

[Anna Kai]

Right.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

You need to be ready. And it just was so not hot.

[Anna Kai]

I know. And that's. That's so rough.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

So I never want to do that again.

[Anna Kai]

I know. I know. Well, I mean, it's too soon to Ask about the second kid. But are you.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

No, no. It's not too soon for me. Like, I'm an open book. But yeah, we definitely want another one, maybe three, God willing that the second one works. So we' see. But we're not, like, doing it anytime soon.

[Anna Kai]

Okay. Right, Right. Yeah. No, you're like, let me just keep one alive first.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Exactly.

[Anna Kai]

And then figure it out. I've had girlfriends who say IVF was like, fine. You know, it was. I've had girlfriends say IVF was worse than pregnancy. What was your whole process with that like?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

My egg retrieval was. Was really painful for me because I have pcos. I had this thing called ohss, which is like, over hyper, like, stimulation. And I had like too many eggs. But that doesn't mean, like good eggs, you know, just like an over production. Exactly. Because with pcos, it's like, it's like, that's what it is. It's. It's like too much production of eggs. And so I ended up getting so, like, large from that whole process that I was swollen and in a lot of pain and, like, could barely walk after. That was the hardest part of ivf. Everything else was fine and, like, standard. I was fine with the shots. Like, the shots in my butt were even fine. I mean, they were annoying, but I got used to them eventually.

[Anna Kai]

Okay, so it was more like the side effects of, like, everything you were struggling with. Is the PCOS what caused your infertility? Because I don't know too much about, like, and I will at some point because Dave and I are talking about, you know, starting a family, and it's like, you don't know you have problems until you do. You don't. I don't know how it's going to go. I do know I have a very, very regular period. That's great. But I also remember you saying on a podcast, you were saying that, like, I been on birth control since I was like, 15 because your mom was pretty, like, forward thinking. So it's like you never knew kind of what would have been the norm. And I've never really been on birth control, say, for a few years here and there.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

That is amazing. And you are in such a good setup to start a family if you want to do that. And when you're ready for me and for anyone who wants to have a family family, if you don't have a regular period, that is something you need to look into. And if you don't know if you have a regular period, you should go off birth control. And, you know Use protection another way for at least a few months to find out if you do. Like, that's the most important thing. And my biggest piece of advice, and I have so many women who have reached out to me, being like, I never cared that my period was irregular, and thank God, like, I heard your story and I went in and, like, I have X, Y, and Z and now know.

[Anna Kai]

Okay.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

And so I feel like it's so important to just check yourself out.

[Anna Kai]

Do you think? Because I feel like there was, like, this new sort of. And it could be like, a conspiracy theory, like, school of thought that likes being on birth control for too long. Because I feel like our generation of women were, like, the first generation to really be on birth control for, like, 15 years, and now we're all at the age where we're trying to get pregnant and start families. Do you think that affects your ability to, you know, get pregnant when you want to be? Because your body's just so accustomed to being like, a barren desert for 15 years, literally.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I don't know if it actually does. And I had a woman come on my podcast who's a hormone expert, and she said, it does. And then I had a fertility doctor come on my podcast, and she said, it doesn't. And so there's so much information out there, and you have to take what you want with a grain of salt, whether it's. You want to believe a doctor or a hormone expert, an endocrinologist, whatever it is. Um, but I personally don't think that birth control was the reason. I think that it. Maybe it didn't help, but I think it was masking. It was just a mask.

[Anna Kai]

It was masking the real issue.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I think the. Probably the real reason that so many people have PCs nowadays is whatever we put in our bodies, which I'm not stopping anytime soon. I love you, Diet Coke. And I love you, chicken fingers.

[Anna Kai]

Well, it's like. And it's the same conversation around, why are so many young people getting cancer these days? You know, like, most recently, like, Olivia Munn got breast cancer at 40. Like, that's very young, you know?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Yeah, they just changed the age that we have to check ourselves out for breast cancer.

[Anna Kai]

I was. We were talking about this. I was on a brand trip in France a couple weeks ago, and I was, like, eating fruit there, and I was like, why does this fruit taste so good?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

So much better. Everything's better there.

[Anna Kai]

I had a straw. I literally. People were like, oh, what was the best thing you ate in France? Because I'd never gone Right. And I have not spent much time in Europe prior to doing this job. And people had always talked about the food in Europe. And I was like, I don't really get it. I was like, I feel like we have pretty good. You know, I was like, new York City has the best food in the world, which I still kind of. You know, we have great food here. But I literally was like. Like, the best thing I ate in France was a strawberry. Like, and it was so small. I was like, what are these tiny strawberries? Because they haven't been genetically modified. Exactly. They haven't had all these hormones pumped into them to make them, you know, not, like, spotty. And I was like, this is the sweetest thing I have ever tasted. And I was like, we are dying from our food, even our dogs. You know, it's like, I am crazy. I now cook for our dog. She does not eat any dog food other than a few, like, treats here and there. Because. Because I think the reason why dogs have such a. Especially goldens and everything, they have such a high recurrence of cancer is because. Sorry, guys, if you. I'm not trying to shame any dog moms, because I realize this is, like, not practical for most people, but kibble is like, you know, I think the advent of these fresh food dog companies is like. Because kibble, like, imagine eating, like, burnt pellets your entire life as a human.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

That's so sad.

[Anna Kai]

So, you know, and we're surprised that our dogs are prematurely, like, getting cancer at 8 and, like, what's in kibble?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Right? No, that's a good point. And you're gonna be a really good mom. Mom. If you are someone who is already looking into that as a dog mom.

[Anna Kai]

I'm gonna be neurotic. It's really. That's actually kind of what I'm scared about. Like, how do you feel? Like. And because you've talked so openly about mental health and everything, but how do you feel about mental health now that you're a mom? Because it's not just you worrying about you. You have this thing that I assume you're like, I would give my life for you right now. Like, how is it? I just feel like, you know, people either go one of two ways. They're like, I'm a mess all the time, or they're like, you know what? Honestly, there's so much to worry about that I just feel so Zen, because.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

What are you gonna do? I feel very Zen, honestly. Like, I feel like I've had to give up control and just Be like, it's gonna be okay. And actually, it's my husband who has the anxiety when it comes to being a parent. Yeah, really?

[Anna Kai]

And was it the opposite when you guys before were parents? Like, you were maybe the more anxious one, and he was a little more chill.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I mean, I never. Since getting sober, I feel like my anxiety went away, which is like, a whole other conversation. But I wasn't anxious, but I was definitely the more, like, type A control freak. Like, needed to be in charge.

[Anna Kai]

Right.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

And now I'm just like, yeah, he's going to be okay. He'll be fine. You know, like, mom intuition almost.

[Anna Kai]

Has it put everything into perspective for you? Like, the things you were freaking out before and the things that concerned you, like, maybe don't concern you as much anymore because you're like, it could like that.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

And then also, you just. You have a lot of. Once you become a mom, you understand, you know, other friends of yours who are moms, too.

[Anna Kai]

Right?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

And, like, I used to not be selfish, but, like, not understand why someone needed to eat dinner at a certain time when we would meet up with, like, a couple for dinner. And now I couldn't be more understanding about it because I get it. And sometimes you just need to go through that to get it. And I think also what I went through with, like, a traumatic birth situation with a C section that zenned me the fuck out because I was like, I literally went through hell. Like, I just have this perfect angel baby now, and, like, he's fine.

[Anna Kai]

It's miracle. I mean, like, you went through so much to get to him, and it's like, you're fine now. What? I want to. I want to switch gears a little bit because you brought this up, and I actually am four months sober now.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Oh, my God. Congratulations.

[Anna Kai]

Thank you. And I'm so interested to talk to you about your sobriety, because I think what happens a lot is women. You know, I hear so often that I can't date right now because I'm working on myself. You know, I'm not the best version of myself that I want to be, and I need to figure out who that is before I dive into a relationship with somebody else. Which sounds all fine and dandy and reasonable. When you were getting sober, you were addicted to weed, so it wasn't so much alcohol, right? You were like, marijuana was like, my Achilles heel because it was calming down your anxiety. But you gave up everything. Like, why not just give up of weed?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

The reason that I decided everything all at once is because it's like when you. When you have an addictive personality or you're addicted to something and you stop it, you could transfer that addiction to something else.

[Anna Kai]

Interesting.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

So when I gave up weed, I could have kept drinking, but then I would have probably started drinking more or I could have, like, kept. I. I don't know. I'm trying to think of something that I did, but not that much of, like, maybe taking, like a Xanax every now and then. I probably, like, never did that. But let's say that I did that. Then I would probably start doing that more. Like, I would need another crutch. Right. And I was like, why do that? I also associated alcohol with weed and weed with alcohol. Like, I would never.

[Anna Kai]

Well, they go hand in hand.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Exactly. I would never go out and drink and not smoke a joint at the end of the night to, like, wind down and go to bed, you know? And so I was like, why? Why? Do you know, why quit? Just one thing when, like, I don't need. None of this is serving me.

[Anna Kai]

Right. Did you just go cold turkey?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Cold turkey, yeah. What did you do?

[Anna Kai]

Cold turkey. But I. For me, it was never. I've never actually, like, loved alcohol. I never got to a point where I ever actually enjoyed the taste of it. I just loved how it made me feel because. And I went to nyu and like, this was before fentanyl was a thing. Thank God, because it's not a joke, but it's like, thank God Fentanyl wasn't a thing when we were in college and everything, because it's like, I experimented a lot of other things other than alcohol, and that stuff could have killed me. But I remember I don't have an addictive personality to alcohol or drugs or anything. I've tried a lot of very, very addictive substance substances, and it's never been like, I was like, okay, that's fine. I could take it or leave it. So I'm lucky in that sense because I do think it is, like, very genetic. Like, that is a gene sometimes that you're addicted to something. But what was happening for me was like, right around Christmas, you know, everyone's drinking and there's so much going on. And I was like, I don't feel good. I feel anxious. It's like the hangxiety. The next day, I already have anxiety. I just went on medication, like, a month ago, and it's, like, changed my life. And, you know, I was like, this is just not helping at all. And so. And it's not adding to my life. Like, I was Already married. And so I was like, let me just stop. And I had done that before in my 20s when I was single and dating. I had gone. I went sober for, like, 10 months. I wish I could say it was because, like, I was trying to be, like, the best version of me, but no, of course, I dated a guy who was sober and vegan, and I went sober and vegan because I was like, I don't know who I am. Why don't I just adopt your personality?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Right?

[Anna Kai]

But it actually was great. I remember, you know, our relationship did not last 10 months, but, like, the sobriety was, like, the best part to come out of that relationship, because I realized, oh, you can be social, you can have fun, and not be drunk off your face. And I remember listening to one of your podcast episodes. You did your wedding sober, obviously. And you're like, I actually can't even imagine what that weekend would have looked like if I was drinking.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Cannot even imagine. Imagine.

[Anna Kai]

I mean, I. I was still drinking when we got married, but I did not drink that much because there's just too much going. There's, like, no time almost to, like, Right. Get wasted at your wedding.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I mean.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. So it's like, you've been so fully present Right. In your life. I guess. So. Were you single when you first decided to quit everything cold turkey, or were you in a relationship?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I was in a relationship, and I definitely give credit to that partner because it was. It would have been really hard for me.

[Anna Kai]

Interesting.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

To get sober and be single. And I have so much respect for anyone who does get sober when they're single, because it's really hard, because you really have to put dating on pause for, like, a year.

[Anna Kai]

So that's interesting. So you would say probably, like, it is not necessary to be single to enact, like, great change in your life.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

No, never. I don't think you shouldn't. It's easier. Right? Right. Like, but it shouldn't. You being single shouldn't be the only reason that you change. You can change regardless.

[Anna Kai]

Do you feel like. Cause I feel like sometimes women do this. They're, like, tired of dating, and they almost use, like, I'm working on myself as an excuse to stop putting themselves out there. Because they're like, you know what? If I just keep working on myself, then I have an excuse not to keep swiping. Cause I'm just so tired.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Yeah. And men do that, too. And it is exactly that. An excuse.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. And it's like, you know what? I. It's like, you can become A better version of yourself while you're with somebody else. And it's like, I feel like that all the time. Like, I'm married now. That doesn't mean I just am now stagnant at 33.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Right, exactly. You should always be working on yourself, learning and growing and. Yeah. You can't just, like, stop.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. So you can date and you can work on yourself at the same time. Okay, so you're a huge advocate for mental health, as we've talked about. You recorded a session with a therapist. What age did you realize that mental health was, like, a thing for you? Because I have girlfriends who are blessed with. Literally, they don't have anxiety. They think logically about everything. I am not one of these people. And I remember when it started happening because I was a kid and I was, like, fairly carefree, and then the genetics, like, set in. So what age were you? Like, something's going on.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

It was about 23. At 23 was when I started seeing a therapist for the first time.

[Anna Kai]

Right after you graduated college.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Exactly. And I feel like that's when gets real for most people too.

[Anna Kai]

Right. Was it. Were you diagnosed with anything or was it just more like, I just can't handle my life right now?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Yeah, I was definitely diagnosed with depression because I had just been dumped for the first time and fired for the first time in, like, the same week. And I was still living with my parents. So that's a recipe for depression if I've ever heard one.

[Anna Kai]

And you know what? It's so weird. I feel like the younger you are, the more you feel like you're supposed to have it together. You're like, I'm 23, I graduated from college. I. I should know what the rest of my life looks like, and literally nothing is working out right now.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Y.

[Anna Kai]

So you were like, I'm depressed. What did that. Are you still with the same therapist?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

No, I'm not. But she was wonderful for that time in my life, and she actually referred me to another therapist, and I was seeing two therapists at once. Oh, for a hot second there.

[Anna Kai]

Wait, why?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Because she. So she was like a psychic psychotherapist, like a typical regular therapist. And the other therapist was for dbt. Dialectical behavioral therapy.

[Anna Kai]

I don't even know what that is.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Wait, actually, I think it was cbt. No, but they're very similar.

[Anna Kai]

Cognitive. Behavioral.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Cognitive behavior. They're very similar.

[Anna Kai]

They're very, very. Yes.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

And I want. She suggested having, like, an action based therapist who gave me, like, kind of a plan of, like, do these things, and, like, they will. Because I didn't want to go on, like, an antidepressant. I just wanted to work through it in therapy. And so that's why she suggested cbt. And so I ended up staying with my CBT therapist and ending with the original one.

[Anna Kai]

Interesting.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

And I'm still with her to this day.

[Anna Kai]

Oh, you're still with her. Okay. Have you experienced any. I mean, I have so many friends who have experienced a lot of hormonal stuff after having their first child. Postpartum is very real. How's that been for you?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Because you're.

[Anna Kai]

You're in it right now, so.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

In it. I feel very lucky to not have had, like, most of the postpartum symptoms. I definitely had a little rage at my husband, but that's. I don't even know.

[Anna Kai]

He might have just been underslept, honestly.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Exactly. Exactly. That was just a lack of sleep. I think a lot of things contributed to it. I think breastfeeding was helpful.

[Anna Kai]

Okay.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I think having child, like, having a baby nurse was very helpful as well. I think most women can't afford someone to live with them and help them with their baby when they first have a child, and I feel so grateful that we were able to do that. And by the way, you can do that with your mom. You do that with, you know, another person that you trust and don't have to pay. But having an extra set of hands really, I think, kept me in a good head space, and I could see how not having that person would have maybe made me spiral into a postpartum. Um, and I think also a really great, supportive husband. I think it was, like, a combination of a lot of things that helped me. And now after, like, stopping breastfeeding, I went on birth control, which I think regulated my hormones as someone with pcos.

[Anna Kai]

Okay.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

So I think that I'm, like, doing all the right things, hopefully, to not experience this, but who knows? I still could, you know, can you.

[Anna Kai]

Like, get it so long after.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I think you can get it up to a year postpartum.

[Anna Kai]

Oh, really? Okay. Well, that's great. I'm glad you're in a good place right now. And it's like, you know what? You. It's nice because there are things you can do. And I feel like so often women are taught that, like, you know, you just have to do everything on your own. And, like, you can. If you have the means to find help, you should get help. That doesn't make you any less of a mom. It's just, like, this is what I need to see.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

It takes a village, people. Do not be ashamed to ask for.

[Anna Kai]

Help all the time in all aspects of life.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Totally.

[Anna Kai]

Do you feel like, because you are so career driven, do you feel like your priorities have shifted since having Zachary? Because I think I meet people from two schools of thought where they're like, they have a kid, and they're like, I love my career just as much. I love my kid more, obviously, but, like, this is just going to run concurrently. And then I have friends who I was like, they're going to, like, rule the world one day, and then they have a kid. They're like, you. You know what? I just don't care about my career anymore. Where are you?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I still very much care about my career, and I love my son, of course, more than my career. But the most fulfilling days for me are when there's a career win and, like, a Zachary win.

[Anna Kai]

Right.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

And I think. And like, obviously, that's not every day, of course.

[Anna Kai]

And that's very rare some days, unfortunately, there's a career winner.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Exactly. One person's going to win, or both people are going. But it's really special to me to be able to support, like, to help to support my family and also have this wonderful child and hopefully more. And I just can't imagine myself ever having the thought of, like, now I'm done.

[Anna Kai]

You're gonna work forever, you think?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Yeah, I want.

[Anna Kai]

God willing.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

God willing, yeah.

[Anna Kai]

That's awesome. And I think it's like, I think for those of us in this space, it's so hard to get into this space, too, that it's like, for me, at least, I'm like, I can't imagine ever voluntarily letting it go. Like, you're going to have to take my career from my cold, dead hand. Because it's like, do you know what I had to do to get here? How much rejection? And we've talked about this before, and you had no one paving the path for you. You were the OG dating podcast. So it's like, I remember you saying when I came on your podcast, it was the people in your life were like, why are talking about your private life? And like, you probably think about that now, and you're like, thank God. Like, I don't. Do you just. Did you just not feel the cringe or were you like, I feel it, but I don't care.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I actually didn't feel it because it's just talking into a microphone. Like, it wasn't. This was way before. It was like anything was on camera, too. So I Was just like, talking into the abyss. I literally did not think anyone was going to be listening to it.

[Anna Kai]

I guess it's also the expectation, too now. It's like, back then, you were like, I didn't. You were probably like, I just need an outlet. This is, like a creative hobby. It's like a kid, like, taking a painting.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Right. Like, I didn't think anyone actually was going to listen, so I didn't really care. And then, like, it just got probably cringier and cringier.

[Anna Kai]

Did people say stuff to you, like, in your community? Were they like, what are you doing? Or was it more discouraged?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

No. Everyone was like, oh, my God, I'm so happy that you just talked about, like, getting dumped on your birthday because I got dumped on mine. Or, oh, my God, like, you talked about having a lot of discharge. Like, I have a lot of discharge. You know, like, just. People love honesty and vulnerability.

[Anna Kai]

It's like, oh, I thought I was the. But thank you. Thank you. I really personally believe that, like, success and rejection are two sides of the same coin and that if you can get through the rejection, you can find your success and that. I know a couple instances in my life where I'm like, I'm so glad I got rejected by this man or this opportunity so that I could be here. Do you have a moment in your life that you were like. That changed everything for me, other than getting dumped that we all know about.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Oh, I'm so happy I got fired at 23 from that job. Why is he so happy? Because if not, I would be in the music industry right now, which is so different.

[Anna Kai]

Wait, what kind of. What were you doing?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Like, publishing or, like, a R. Music publishing. Interesting.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I would not be a happy camper, I don't think.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. Also, I don't know if that industry's doing, like, amazingly well.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Yeah, it's. It's very cutthroat, too.

[Anna Kai]

It's very cutthroat. Okay. And why did they fire you? Do you know?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Oh, do I know. I don't even know if I'm allowed to talk about this. I've definitely. I mentioned it on my podcast before, but I fucked up a really big meeting for my boss with a major celebrity. I've probably dropped the name on my podcast, but I feel. I don't know.

[Anna Kai]

You don't have to. Don't worry.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

A major celebrity. I sent him to Soho House instead of to his office where the meeting was. Oh, it was bad.

[Anna Kai]

Although, honestly, that sort of seems like not a fireable offense to Me?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Oh, it was bad. I mean the. The very famous celebrity was waiting for him with her mom.

[Anna Kai]

Oh, it wasn't great. Okay, but like you're 23. I don't know.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I feel like I wouldn't hire a 23 year old assistant who has no idea what she's doing and it's her first job out of college if. If my stakes were that high.

[Anna Kai]

Also like, what were you getting paid? It's like, were you getting paid to not make mistakes?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Pennies.

[Anna Kai]

It's okay. I. I have a. I have grace for and sympathy for 23 year old Lindsay. But thank God because we all needed you here and not coordinating people schedules in music.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

True.

[Anna Kai]

Wait, have you talked to this massive celebrity since then?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

The massive celebrity and I never spoke, but I would love it.

[Anna Kai]

Oh, you have.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I actually. The massive celebrity walked in on me peeing once. True story. Wait, like into a. Ironically at a Soho House.

[Anna Kai]

Life is funny like that.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Life is funny. Yeah. It's like into assault. But I. I only realized it was her after she walked in and I didn't obviously say anything. I wasn't going to come after her.

[Anna Kai]

One of these days. I would love it if you would have this unnamed massive celebrity on your podcast. I manifesting that for sure. I don't even know who this is. But like I would love that because it's like. I'm so sorry I'm the reason you went to Soho House. I wonder if she'll remember that if it was kind of an oops enough moment where she would remember.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

She would, she would. Because she still works with my ex boss today.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. Okay. Have you had your ex boss on the podcast?

[Lindsay Metzlar]

No. I probably should.

[Anna Kai]

You should.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

I probably should. He's still. Still single.

[Anna Kai]

Ooh, that's a lot to unpack. You fired me at 23. I have a family now. Okay, that's. That's for a later episode.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Totally.

[Anna Kai]

Thank you. So, to all the 23 year olds out there. If you've just been fired and it. It was actually kind of your fault, there is hope because look at Lindsay now. She's living the dream. Thank you so so much.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Thank you so much for having me. This was so fun.

[Anna Kai]

This was awesome. Thank you. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

With the price of just about everything.

[Anna Kai]

Going up during inflation, we thought we'd bring our prices down. So to help us, we brought in.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

A reverse auctioneer, which is apparently a.

[Anna Kai]

Thing Mint Mobile unlimited premium wireless. 30. 30 bid to get 30.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Better 20.

[Anna Kai]

20.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

20.

[Anna Kai]

Better get 20.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

20.

[Anna Kai]

15. 15. 15. 15.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Just 15 bucks a month.

[Anna Kai]

Sold. Give it a [e-mail] Switch $45 upfront.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Payment equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only.

[Anna Kai]

Taxes and fees.

[Lindsay Metzlar]

Extra Speed slower above 40 gigabytes. You detailed.