When he wants to chase you, but he doesn’t want to be with you feat. Aurora Culpo

Summary

Brutally Anna - Episode: "When He Wants to Chase You, But He Doesn’t Want to Be with You" feat. Aurora Culpo

In this compelling episode of Brutally Anna, host Anna Kai engages in a heartfelt and brutally honest conversation with guest Aurora Culpo. Aurora, known for her wellness content and as the host of the podcast Barely Filtered, shares her deeply personal journey through love, loss, and self-discovery following a highly publicized divorce. This detailed summary captures the essence of their discussion, highlighting key moments, insightful reflections, and notable quotes.

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1. Introduction to Aurora Culpo (00:37 - 02:40)

Anna Kai welcomes Aurora Culpo to the show, setting the stage for an intimate discussion about Aurora's experiences with marriage, divorce, and personal growth. Aurora is introduced as a resilient single mother, a wellness advocate, and a creator dedicated to helping others navigate the messy aspects of life.

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2. The Non-Monogamous Marriage Agreement (02:44 - 09:55)

Aurora delves into the unconventional agreement she had with her ex-husband, where she permitted him to have one affair per year under strict conditions. This arrangement was rooted in Aurora's belief that men are not naturally monogamous and her desire to maintain honesty in their relationship.

• Notable Quote:

  Anna Kai [07:33]: "There was a lot that you did not figure out. Like, the details were not really there."

Aurora explains how this agreement was based on mutual respect and transparency, but ultimately, the boundaries were not clearly defined, leading to complications.

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3. Discovery of Infidelity and Its Impact (09:08 - 11:40)

The conversation shifts to the moment Aurora discovered her husband's infidelity through a direct message on social media. Despite the initial denial, the evidence was undeniable, forcing Aurora to confront the reality that their marriage could not withstand the breach of trust.

• Notable Quote:

  Aurora Culpo [09:55]: "That's why, like, you know, I don't mind talking about it, and he doesn't mind if I talk about it because it's like, it's not bashing him."

Aurora reflects on her younger self's hope that children and family life would change her husband's behavior, a hope that was ultimately unfulfilled.

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4. Navigating Divorce and Parenting (53:35 - 58:17)

Aurora discusses the challenges of breaking the news of the divorce to her young children. She emphasizes the importance of maintaining a stable and loving environment for them, highlighting that the kids were surprisingly unaffected and remained loving towards both parents.

• Notable Quote:

  Aurora Culpo [56:27]: "We love you guys so much, and we just feel that we can be better parents to you if we don't live in the same house."

This section underscores Aurora's commitment to her children's well-being and her ability to handle the emotional complexities of divorce with grace.

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5. Struggles with Addiction and Sobriety (14:07 - 16:42 & 63:45 - 71:39)

Aurora shares her battle with vaping addiction during her divorce, describing how it became a coping mechanism that ultimately led to dependency. She details her journey to quitting, including relapses and the use of medications like Wellbutrin to manage withdrawal symptoms.

• Notable Quote:

  Aurora Culpo [64:04]: "I'm fully off of vaping. I did have like a two day little relapse actually like a month ago, but I was like, hell, no, I'm not going back to this."

Aurora emphasizes the difficulty of overcoming addiction and the importance of seeking support through medical interventions and alternative therapies like acupuncture.

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6. Personal Growth and Self-Compassion (72:44 - 77:26)

The dialogue turns to Aurora's journey of personal growth, focusing on the importance of self-compassion and rejecting the pursuit of perfection. She advocates for embracing consistency over perfection and being kind to oneself during setbacks.

• Notable Quote:

  Aurora Culpo [76:40]: "You're not going to be able to do that, so you might as well just quit while you're ahead. Because if your goal is perfection, you will disappoint yourself over and over again."

Aurora discusses how accepting imperfections has been pivotal in her healing process and in building healthier relationships.

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7. Relationships in the Public Eye and Future Outlook (73:40 - 77:41)

Aurora touches upon the complexities of dating and maintaining relationships while being in the public eye. She reflects on how sharing personal experiences publicly can influence relationships and her own journey towards finding meaningful connections.

• Notable Quote:

  Aurora Culpo [76:09]: "Because we can default to that all the time, just like I said. And I think that's really interesting..."

Aurora remains optimistic about future relationships, emphasizing the importance of self-awareness and integrity in dating.

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8. Embracing Imperfection and Daily Practices (76:40 - 77:26)

In the closing segment, Aurora offers actionable advice for listeners striving to overcome the need for perfection. She advocates for taking small, consistent steps towards personal goals and being forgiving of oneself when setbacks occur.

• Notable Quote:

  Aurora Culpo [76:40]: "I think what it really comes down to for me is feeling proud of myself and feeling like I am keeping my own word to myself."

Aurora encourages women to prioritize self-pride and resilience over unattainable perfection, fostering a healthier mindset for personal development.

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Conclusion

This episode of Brutally Anna provides an unfiltered glimpse into Aurora Culpo's profound experiences with marriage, divorce, addiction, and personal growth. Through her candid storytelling and reflective insights, Aurora offers valuable lessons on the importance of honesty in relationships, the challenges of overcoming addiction, and the necessity of self-compassion. Anna Kai and Aurora Culpo's conversation serves as a powerful reminder that navigating life's brutal moments can lead to profound personal reinvention and resilience.

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Where to Find Aurora Culpo:

• Instagram: @auroraculpo
• Podcast: Barely Filtered

Connect with Anna Kai:

• Social Media: @maybeboth
• Subscribe: Find Brutally Anna on your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

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[Aurora Culpo]

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[Anna Kai]

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[Aurora Culpo]

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[Anna Kai]

Monday.com the first work platform you'll love to use welcome to Brutally Anna, a podcast about finding love, losing love, and all the things we think about but don't talk about enough. I'm your host, Anna Kai, AKA maybe both across social media, here to remind you that life can be beautiful even when it's freaking brutal. Our guest today, Aurora Culpo, knows a thing or two about getting brutally honest with not only herself, but with the world. While some of you may have seen Aurora's very raw and real journey through the beginning stages of her divorce on TLC's the Culpo Sisters. I'm here to talk to her about how she not only survived her divorce, but how she's thrived since then. Aside from being a full time single mom, Aurora is a wellness content creator, host of the podcast Barely Filtered, and is here today to show us all that life can be be beautiful even when it's a little messy. Rora, thanks so much for being here. I am so excited to chat with you. We've been talking, we have, but now I get to flip the script and ask you all the invasive questions I've had for you for several months now.

[Aurora Culpo]

I love it. I'm so ready.

[Anna Kai]

So you had a very public divorce from your Ex husband that unraveled in the most social media esque way possible. And for those that didn't watch it happen on the Kopal Sisters, can you walk us through the DM that led to your divorce?

[Aurora Culpo]

Oh, God. Y. Oh, wow. I haven't had to tell this story in a while. I guess, I guess we'll just go right back to that time. So I was actually like breastfeeding my youngest child at the time. She was like, she was probably like 8 months old or something. And I'm on my phone just scrolling through and somebody pops in my DMs and they're like, just so you know, your husband is sleeping with your husband. Slept with my friend last weekend in like Myrtle Beach. And I was like, how did she know he was in Myrtle Beach? He was on like a golf trip with his friends and, and I asked him about it and he said no. And then she goes on to describe the sex and when you know your person, you know your person. And I was like, that's him. And, and I, so I like brought it up to him again and he was denying it and was denying it and was denying it. But we had an agreement which people are going to think is crazy. And I've, you know, I've made peace with this. This is the 25 year old version of me who like thought that this was something I could do and that was a good idea and could, could work in our relationship, which was that he could actually he, he could get a one a year. And a one a year is like was based on the premise that men cannot be monogamous and that I didn't want to change him and I wanted to, I would rather not be lied to. So I wanted to give him the freedom to sleep with one other person a year. It couldn't be anybody that we knew. It couldn't be anybody that he like, if no feelings could be involved, if there were feelings, he would need to tell me. We would need to, you know, not be together. They didn't roll over. So you couldn't like bank them all and use them, use them down the road for an orgy. There's. Yeah. And you guys, this came from like a very broken place. So this was like I had come off of a relationship before I met him where I was one of many girlfriends where I thought I was the only one. And, and it was years of really like emotional abuse from this guy I was dating before I met my ex husband. And so when I met him I was like, you're perfect. In so many ways. But he was. He was very upfront with me in the beginning of, like, I don't know if I can be with one person for the rest of my life. I don't know if that's what I want. I don't know if I believe in monogamy and being, you know, 25, broken, and really connecting with this per. Like, we had so much fun together. We really cared about each other. I was like, okay, listen, maybe biologically, men are wired to spread their seed far and wide. And, like, who am I to try to change that about you? And I'd rather. And. And I respect the fact that you're being upfront with me and not lying to me and pretending like you, like, have any intention of being monogamous like every other guy I've ever dated who ends up just cheating. So I'll give you this freedom. You can sleep with one other person a year. And I'm not gonna feel threatened by that because what we have is so special anyway. And it's just sex. Like, it's not, like, emotional connection. You're just, like. It's part of, like, the man's instinct to hunt. And he said to me at the time, he was like, just by you granting me this freedom, I probably, like, won't even use it because I won't need to, because I'll feel like just to know that I have that freedom is enough. So we kind of left it at that. And then fast forward a few years down the road. He had never used it. He was also. He couldn't tell me if he used it. I wasn't to ask because I knew, like, if I knew that it would. I would get in my head about it. And everybody always asks me, did you also get a one a year? No, I did not get a one year because I didn't ask for one because I didn't need one or want one because, I don't know, I guess I thought women are not wired that way. Only men are wired that way. And so fast forward, we get married. We never really, like, addressed this one a year thing. I assumed he wasn't using it. Our relationship was really going really well. Whatever. Ended up finding. Finding out later that he actually wasn't using it. He hadn't used it at all. The first time he used it was a month after we got married, so. And I end up finding that out because when I was breastfeeding my daughter, somebody DM'd me, asked me about this. He denied it. He denied it. He denied It. Which wasn't part of the deal. Like, you're. Well, we never talked about, like, when I ask you, you say, I guess I wasn't supposed to ask. We never. We needed a contract. We needed a lawyer to take a look at this deal before.

[Anna Kai]

There was a lot that you did not figure out. Like, the details were not really there. No.

[Aurora Culpo]

And what ended up happening was we went to the beach with our kids. He was in the water. He had his phone. He left his phone on the towel. This was the first time in our nine year relationship I ever went through his phone. I went through his phone. He was talking about it to somebody else who is one of our mutual friends. Made that relationship a little bit sticky for a few years. And basically it did happen. And I confronted him about it and he was like, I didn't want you to know because I didn't want to hurt your feelings. And I was like, how many other times has this happened? And he said it happened one other time at his best friend's, like, 40th birthday party. And then when I, like, looked back, obviously my phone of when that 40th birthday party was, it was literally a month after we got married. But that wasn't even why we got divorced. We got divorced because. Because he was actually upset with me that I had gone. Like, I was like, okay, I'm not mad at you that this happened. I understand that, like, you thought you had this freedom because this is the freedom I gave you. I have no right to be mad at you about it. But, like, now that it's happen and I know that this is the way it makes me feel, I don't like it. And I don't. I'm not capable of this. I don't want this to be part of the relationship. He was like, okay, fine, we can squash the one a year. That won't be a thing anymore. But there was always kind of resentment from that point on about me changing the rule. The rule. And, you know, and more things started to unfold after that about just our inherent incompatibility in terms of a partnership.

[Anna Kai]

Well, I think I remember you saying that you had always hoped that having kids would turn Mikey into a family man, that he would choose his family over going out with the boys and the freedoms that he had when he was a bachelor. And it appears that that did not happen. Yeah, that was something that he valued his freedoms. And that when he told you he wasn't sure he could be monogamous, that he was really telling you the truth almost in A way, yes, for sure.

[Aurora Culpo]

And that's why, like, you know, I don't mind talking about it, and he doesn't mind if I talk about it because it's like, it's not bashing him. Like, if anybody changed their tune, it was me. And he was upfront in the beginning about who he was, and he still is that person.

[Anna Kai]

What do you think it was in you that really wanted to believe that you could change him and that kids would change him?

[Aurora Culpo]

I think it's when you. Well, for me, I really wanted to be a mom, and I had this timeline in my head that if I didn't make it happen before I was 30, that, like, I was gonna die. It was the one thing I was always really sure I wanted in my life, and I was with him, and I think so many boxes were checked in him that I. That I really loved. And I knew he was going to be a great dad. And there was just, like, these few little minor things like that he couldn't be faithful, that I was like, I'm just going to. You know, you can't have everything in life. Not everything's going to be. Going to be perfect. And so I forced it. And I think I was just really hoping that kids would change him, that family life would change him. And it's just not. It wasn't. It wasn't reasonable or realistic. I didn't think anybody could have kids and a family and not be changed. And of course, like, it did change him in a lot of ways, but not who he inherently was or wanted.

[Anna Kai]

Exactly. And did he want kids?

[Aurora Culpo]

He did not. Like, I did. Like, he would have been fine with maybe one. And he's also 15 years older than me, so, like, when I met him, I was 25, he was 40. So he didn't have kids yet, and he wasn't, like, really trying, I think. I think if it wasn't for me, he probably wouldn't have had kids, and I think he would have probably been okay with it. I don't know. He would probably hate me if I said that, because he's an amazing father, loves our children, and I think if you asked him, he'd probably say no. I always knew I'd be a dad. I would always want kids, But I'm like, who. What was the plan? You know? Like, there was no. There was no plan.

[Anna Kai]

You certainly weren't making moves in that direction.

[Aurora Culpo]

Yeah, for sure. When I met him, he was, like, literally living out of an rv, pretty much, like, traveling around, following Dave Matthews and my Parents were like, you who. What are you doing? Like, nobody understood why I connected with him because he was so much older, and he was like, just this very free spirit. But I don't know. My life choices sometimes always keep people guessing.

[Anna Kai]

But what is it now that you've had some time to reflect on why you were attracted to that life? Because it's not the life you live?

[Aurora Culpo]

No, I loved. And this is something that I'm still very attracted to, like, in a person. I like somebody who beats to their own drum that has, like, an entrepreneurial spirit that doesn't follow norms of society. And I think that kind of why was part of the whole. Our whole agreement. Like, I thought I was being very progressive. I think with this, like. With this thing of, like, I don't need to be the only person. I'm not threatened by that. It's just. It's just sex. Like, what we have is this deeper connection. And honestly, I think that probably can work for some people. Like, there's a whole. Now that. That I'm on Raya and dating, like, there's a whole section of people out there who live in this polygamous world and make it work now. Like, one guy, I. I thank God I did a FaceTime date with him first, because he told me, like, he is. He's polygamous. And I was just like, okay, well, that. I tried that. It just doesn't work. It doesn't work for me. So thank you. I don't want to waste any more.

[Anna Kai]

Of your time, but is there a section that you can write that on Raya? Because I feel like you should. I feel like if you're a polygamist and you're on a dating app, you should disclose that right away so that you don't even waste time even on the FaceTime date.

[Aurora Culpo]

100%, I don't think. I think it's like, either Here for friends, which, by the way, no, they're not. And here for friends or not here for friends.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. I feel like on Raya, you need to be very, very upfront about whether you have made some life choices that are not necessarily what the masses have chosen. And I say this as somebody who dated on a dating app. Vegan and sober. I was. I made the decision to be vegan and sober for almost a year because of a guy. Of course.

[Aurora Culpo]

Of course.

[Anna Kai]

Then that guy left, and then I decided that it was actually very good for my mental health to not drink and to eat vegan and be very clean.

[Aurora Culpo]

Have you stayed vegan and Sober.

[Anna Kai]

I have not stayed vegan, but I am sober now, and I have been sober for about a year. It'll be a year in January.

[Aurora Culpo]

No wonder your skin looks so amazing.

[Anna Kai]

My skin actually has gotten better, amongst other things.

[Aurora Culpo]

Yeah, I want to talk. I wish I had known that. Well, I might just hijack your podcast for a second and talk about that, because I'm actually on a sober journey myself. But mine keeps going, like six months, and then I'll drink again. And I'm like, ugh. I actually hate feeling hungover, but do.

[Anna Kai]

You like the taste of alcohol?

[Aurora Culpo]

I love red wine.

[Anna Kai]

See, I don't think I really ever like the taste of alcohol. So I'm not exactly qualified to give advice on how to quit drinking because I never liked the taste. I always just liked how it made me feel. Because I have a lot of social anxiety in big situations, and it would always be that liquid courage I needed at parties.

[Aurora Culpo]

For dating.

[Anna Kai]

For dating and. And just to feel more social. I love one on one interactions, actually. So maybe dating wasn't that hard for me. I struggle with big groups of people parties, so I don't love.

[Aurora Culpo]

How has that been in this year of not drinking?

[Anna Kai]

Well, I just don't go to that many parties, and it's actually been really great. And I just really live my life the way I want to now. And I say no to a lot of things, and it's been very freeing. And I mostly quit drinking for my mental health because I struggle a lot with anxiety and depression and obsessive compulsive disorder.

[Aurora Culpo]

Same, same, same. Which it turns out alcohol just makes it worse.

[Anna Kai]

It does.

[Aurora Culpo]

It really does.

[Anna Kai]

The hangxiety is so real the next day, and it just really wasn't doing anything for me. And so I just decided to quit. And I didn't give myself a timeline. I wasn't like, oh, I'm gonna stop forever. I just said, I'm just gonna take a pause. And the pause just ended up lasting. And I am at a point where I never say I'm never gonna do something. Cause you never know.

[Aurora Culpo]

That's my problem. I get on my show and I'm like, guys, for those of you wondering, I am now a sober person. I'd like to be addressed as such. And they're like, how many days do you have? I'm like, that's not important. It's been about two, but. And then like, of course, you know, like a couple months later, I'm drinking and I'm like, yeah, shut up. But that's Very real.

[Anna Kai]

And I think a lot of people do that. And it's okay to flip flop. It's okay to.

[Aurora Culpo]

It's a little embarrassing, but I'm getting over the embarrassment. Cause it happen so many times. I mean, it doesn't really matter.

[Anna Kai]

I mean, why is it embarrassing? Who cares? Like, it's not anybody else's life.

[Aurora Culpo]

It's true. It's only embarrassing because I feel like you look more like you have a problem when you keep going back and forth about it.

[Anna Kai]

I mean, it's only a problem if it really affects your quality of life. Right.

[Aurora Culpo]

Which it does. Like, not in a way where I'm like, drunk driving or like, can't care for my children or like lose jobs, but it definitely gives me hangxiety.

[Anna Kai]

Right. And it's tougher to get through your day when you're hungover and just even. I just noticed in my early 20s, I never got hangovers and I could recover very quickly and it didn't affect me. But I would have one or two glasses of wine at dinner on a Wednesday, and the next morning I'd just wake up feeling a little not okay.

[Aurora Culpo]

We all miss this, but it's great.

[Anna Kai]

I love you. Could not pay me to go back to my 20s. Oh, me either, being 34. But I will say what I do miss about my twenties is the just sheer recklessness with which I treated my body. And my body just withstood it and was like, game time, baby.

[Aurora Culpo]

Right.

[Anna Kai]

There's just truly nothing like a. Like, if you are 22 listening to this, it will never get better. So if you're going to develop a drinking habit, you better do it at 22 versus 32, because you'll feel way worse at 32, literally. And I think it's so funny because Gen Z is actually so not into alcohol. I think that's the reason we have all these sober options now at restaurants and everything. Because Gen Z is really the opposite of millennials in terms of how they function. And they're a very sober generation. In. Are they? Yeah, a lot of people. I've heard a lot of anecdotal stories about how Gen Z is very sober.

[Aurora Culpo]

They're just vaping.

[Anna Kai]

They're just. Yeah. Which I want to ask you about too, because I know you recently quit that. But back to the topic of your ex husband cheating on you and just sort of this whole idea even cheat.

[Aurora Culpo]

Well.

[Anna Kai]

But okay, here's the thing. You said that he was allowed to, but then we didn't define whether he was allowed to lie. About it. So there is that thing is that if he had just copped to it when you asked him the first time, I think I would be a little less inclined to call it cheating, because technically, that was his hall pass.

[Aurora Culpo]

Right.

[Anna Kai]

But he didn't admit to it.

[Aurora Culpo]

That was. I don't know if he would agree with. I mean, he's kind of one of those people who probably would not say he did anything wrong in any way. But I think, yeah, he shouldn't have lied. He should have admitted it because. But then I think he thought it was part of the deal, that his excuse was he didn't wanna hurt my feelings.

[Anna Kai]

Okay, well, the damage is done.

[Aurora Culpo]

The damage was done.

[Anna Kai]

And also, I always wonder, it's like, do you really think now Aurora's gonna go back and be like, okay, well, he said he didn't, so that's fine. I'll just believe him.

[Aurora Culpo]

I know. No, yeah, of course. We go into, like, detective mode.

[Anna Kai]

I know. I was like, what do you think? We're just gonna be like, sure, whatever. Maybe there are women out there that do that. I TR that there are some women who are with men who, by the way, they don't have a hall pass. They're in purely traditional monogamous relationships, and they just turn a blind eye. Because it's easier.

[Aurora Culpo]

Because it's easier. I wonder. I mean, I think there's a lot of financial reasons behind it. Luckily, I was in a situation where I knew I could be divorced and support myself, but, man, that's such a tough one to have to stay in a relationship for financial reasons.

[Anna Kai]

I had somebody DM me last year who said, I got married in my early 20s. We have two kids, and I need to leave my husband. And I've never worked. I was always taught to just be a mom. I don't even know if she went to school. She was like, I'm so scared, but we're getting divorced and I have to go find a job now. And I just thought, amen. Like, it's just good on you for leaving even in that situation. Cause so many people wouldn't leave.

[Aurora Culpo]

No.

[Anna Kai]

And it's so difficult, and.

[Aurora Culpo]

And you're just kicking the can down the road. It's like, exactly. You know, if maybe the divorce wouldn't happen then, but, like, it could happen further down the road, and it's even harder to get back into the workforce then. So at least she.

[Anna Kai]

At least she's young enough to get into the workforce. And I think this is. I mean, I talked about this with you earlier on your podcast that I think the most important thing women can do is make money. It's so simple. It frees you so much from having to depend on a man to give you nice things. It's really nice to be taken care of. But it's. It's so much nicer to know that I don't need you to buy me this. Like, I know one of your exes bought you a Chanel bag, but it's so nice getting it from a man, but knowing I can buy myself this if I want to. It's true, it's true.

[Aurora Culpo]

But then sometimes I'm like, well, what's your value anyway? Like, you have a penis. I could just hump the couch.

[Anna Kai]

It's like, I mean, all these sex toys now, they're like, what is it?

[Aurora Culpo]

Seriously?

[Anna Kai]

But companionship is important. I think we're hardwired to do that. I think conversation is important. You know, my husband's my best friend, and so I always think, like, at the end of the day, like, I hope to grow old and wrinkly with him when nothing is sexy.

[Aurora Culpo]

You're never gonna get wrinkly with that skin and those, the not drinking and fingers crossed, whatever skincare products you're using.

[Anna Kai]

Fingers crossed. I think age gets to us all. There's a joke with Asian women is that we don't age until we hit menopause and then we just all turn into three foot tall potatoes. So we'll see. But I accept it. Aging is a gift. But I think you gotta find somebody who's like, your best friend, essentially, is somebody who makes you feel like you're with a girlfriend that want to have sex with, essentially. And before that, I dated a lot of men that I was attracted to, but I was like, we don't have the same chemistry and the same kind of levity that I have with a friend. Like, there's nothing I'd rather be doing more on a Friday night than just sitting on the couch watching Dateline with Dave. It's truly my favorite thing in the whole world.

[Aurora Culpo]

You're like, this is how I would murder you if. If it was gonna happen.

[Anna Kai]

And both of us were so into true crime that at this stage, neither one of us could pull something on the other, because we know it all.

[Aurora Culpo]

You know it all.

[Anna Kai]

It's like, if feed me a drink all of a sudden, or like, there's a Diet Coke and you're like, drink this. I'm like, you're trying to kill me, right?

[Aurora Culpo]

It's like, I'M not gonna go on any. Any weird hiking trails with you where there's cliffs.

[Anna Kai]

Absurd. Do you think once a cheater, always a cheater, or do you think men can change?

[Aurora Culpo]

I do think men can change. I think they can change for themselves, though. Like, I don't think that you're going to be a catalyst for a man changing. And I don't think you can expect that anybody can change for anybody other than themselves.

[Anna Kai]

But that's so disappointing to all the women who think that they're gonna be the reason to save the man. Which, by the way, I blame on Hollywood because it's the whole manic Pixie dream girl idea, where for so long in the 90s and 2000s, all these ROM coms were these tormented men who were saved by the women that came into their lives. There's actually a really good article on this from forever ago about the movie Elizabethtown, do you remember, with Orlando Bloom and Kirsten Dunst? And his father dies, and I think he lives in a big city and he travels home back to where he's from to attend his father's funeral, and he's all fucked up and he's depressed and whatever. And he meets Kirsten Dunst and she's like the Manic Pixie dream girl. She exists to serve his storyline and to save him. And of course he realizes he's in love with her and it saves his life and he's no longer depressed, and she's the reason. And I think we grew up with those tropes. There are so many rom coms like that where the man gets to be complex and tormented and it's almost sexy in a way. And I think that's why.

[Aurora Culpo]

The quiet, shy, mysterious one, it's like, he's not mysterious, he's just dumb. He doesn't have anything to say. That is so true.

[Anna Kai]

It's like he's not actually tormented and he's not complex.

[Aurora Culpo]

No, he's high.

[Anna Kai]

He's high and he's dumb and he's lazy. He doesn't want to try. He's sorry. But I think that's where comes from. It's like, it's so romantic to think you're the reason why a man changed, right? And it almost never happens.

[Aurora Culpo]

It never does. And it's such a tough pill to swallow. I think some of us, it takes a little longer to learn that lesson. You know, there's still a part of me that, like, I'm not going to say who it is, but there's this guy that From. From Raya. He's like, he's famous. You definitely know his name. I'm not going to say it, but he has a reputation of dating a lot of young girl, like, young women, one after the other, whatever.

[Anna Kai]

Right.

[Aurora Culpo]

And like, he's in my DMs. Whatever. We've been talking just because I'm like, this is funny to talk to this person. Like, like, you know, a banter with somebody that, like, has been in your Rolodex of, like, famous people for your whole life. I'm like, this is interesting, but I'm like, a part of me is like, huh, Maybe I could change him. Like, maybe it's not like, you know that he's dated 900, like, different young women who couldn't change him, but, like, I could be the one to change him, but I need to be like, Aurora, get it together. No, the best indication of future behavior is past behavior. And nothing about me is. Is that different and unique from these other girls that would change him. Unless he, like. The only thing that I've seen really change people is like, joining a cult, finding a new religion, like some kind of, like, mental brainwashing. Otherwise, no.

[Anna Kai]

Right. Which, by the way, Bethany Joy Lenz just published her memo about leaving a cult. And it's like a New York Times bestseller.

[Aurora Culpo]

I love that.

[Anna Kai]

So I need to read that because that's crazy. I was a huge One Tree Hill fan growing up. I don't know if you watched that show.

[Aurora Culpo]

I wasn't really.

[Anna Kai]

Were you into the OC or anything more OC if you were more OC, you were less One Tree Hill. I was madly in love with everybody on One Tree Hill and especially James Lafferty. He was my celebrity crush growing up. And him and Bethany Joylens character, Hayley were like, married and they had kids and they were a teen pregnancy. And somehow that was very okay on the show. It's very glamorized.

[Aurora Culpo]

You're like, that looks kind of fun to me.

[Anna Kai]

We should try that. I don't know. Thankfully, that didn't happen in me, but I thought it was. I was like, oh, I didn't know you were in a cult. Like, after One Tree Hill, you just assumed that you just went on to continue to be famous and act and everything. But, yeah, I think that's the thing. It's like you have to almost be brainwashed in order to change. And I don't really think that the core of who somebody is changes because I've dated men. I had this one guy that I Dated when I was 22 for a month. And I gave him my whole. I don't really. And I don't think I was even a hard and fast rule for me at the time, it was like, I don't want to sleep with you just because I know you're kind of a boy toy. And he was like, yeah, I kind of am.

[Aurora Culpo]

Oh, you said that to him. He was okay with that. And he.

[Anna Kai]

Oh, I was very honest with him. And I will say he was very honest with me, which made it easier. It's almost like what you had with Mikey, where it's almost like we were so honest with each other that I was like, it's meant to be. I'm gonna change him.

[Aurora Culpo]

I'm so cool with it. Where it's like, sometimes we think we're the first people enough.

[Anna Kai]

We think we're the first women to ever say, it's okay that you're doing what you're doing. Right. And I just always felt like, I can't trust you. I don't wanna sleep with you. And then we ended up just not seeing each other after a month or two. And then I went on to date somebody else for a year. And then I ran into him again on the street after that relationship ended. And it felt like fate. And, yes, of course, serendipity. I was like, I am living my own sex in the city right now. It was like he was big, and he kept coming into my life.

[Aurora Culpo]

Yes.

[Anna Kai]

And so we went out again, and he gave me this line. He was like, I feel like we really should try, like, you're. You know. Which I do. I am spiritual. I do believe that a lot of things in my life are not coincidences. I don't really particularly believe in coincidences, but I believe that coincidence happened to teach me that some men do not change. Because basically what happened was we went on a date, and then he was like, I'm going to Miami this weekend. Do you want to come with me? And I was like, no, I have to work, because I was in real estate, and you work mostly on the weekends. And he was like, okay, well, when I get back from Miami next week, I think we should. Should figure this out. I think we should really do this. And I was like, okay, great. Text me when you're back from Miami. Never heard from him again.

[Aurora Culpo]

Stop. Yeah, he must have found somebody in Miami. I know.

[Anna Kai]

I think it was just. I was like, did you just say all that to try and get me to come with you to Miami? So you had a buddy in Miami.

[Aurora Culpo]

Oh my God. Maybe.

[Anna Kai]

Yes.

[Aurora Culpo]

So this is so. People are confusing. I don't get it. That's. This is why men are confusing to me. Because, like, I don't. I'm not aggressive with somebody unless I really want that. Like, if I want you, you know, because I'm like, like, you can't. Like I chased you pretty much. Men chase girls that they don't want sometimes.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. Well, for their own ego.

[Aurora Culpo]

What is that?

[Anna Kai]

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[Aurora Culpo]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

And looking back on that situation, this man basically texted me from morning until night for six weeks after our first date. We saw each other a couple times a week. And then he ghosted me on Valentine's Day. And that's when I realized that he did not want to commit to me. Even though every indication up until that point was that he did wanna commit to me. And then what I realized was, because it was a very small world situation. He was nine years older than me, but his ex girlfriend, who he was with for three years and was living with him, was actually a mutual friend with a girlfriend of mine. And I didn't realize this until I showed a picture of this guy that I've been dating for six weeks to my girlfriend and being like, look what he did to me. And she's like, I know him. I met him at a party. He dated this person that I know through just randomly. It's such a small world.

[Aurora Culpo]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

And he had told me when I met on the first date that he had recently broken up with his long term girlfriend, but that it had ended in August. So we were, we met in January. August feels like a very appropriate timeline, right? To break up with somebody and then get back in the dating pool. It's like, okay, you gave yourself a couple months to recover. I found out from my girlfriend, who knows his ex girlfriend, that he had broken up with her over Christmas. So I was his first online date. He did not know what the fuck he was doing. So I was there to prop up his ego. He did not know whether he was gonna be desirable to the women he wanted to be with. And I think when he realized that I Wanted him and that he could be wanted. He was like, now I don't need you. I'm go out and get somebody better than you. And he ended up dating somebody that was famous and, you know, not me at the time at all completely. And it worked out for me. But I think about that, that men chase you to fulfill their own ego. And I think women do it too. I mean, look, we're not saints either, but I think men do it a lot more than women, because women, at the end of the day, we're programmed to just want to actually meet a good guy and to settle down with them.

[Aurora Culpo]

I think so, yeah. The amount of guys lately, I feel like that chase. And then when they feel like they got what they wanted, like, especially if I sleep with them, the, like, the intensity dwindles quickly after that to the point where I'm like, am I bad at sex? But, like, I know I'm not. I know I'm not. I feel like when you've been married for a long time, like, you're not bad at sex because you have to have so much sex and, like, you just learn so much. But then it's like, maybe I'm only good at having sex with that one person. I don't know. I do think there's something to be said about, like, the man gets the sex from you, and something in him doesn't like you as much anymore.

[Anna Kai]

Well, I think they now feel like they've conquered you, in a sense, and now they're on to conquer other foreign nations.

[Aurora Culpo]

Yes. So you do have to just wait because they. You have to. That's. That's why I now wait to have sex. And by now I mean, like, just starting today, I now wait to have sex with somebody.

[Anna Kai]

I'm gonna hold you to that. Okay, you better text me the next time you're at a guy's apartment.

[Aurora Culpo]

Maybe, like, is today an exception? I know there's always, like, an exception where I'm like, well, and that's when.

[Anna Kai]

You get dicked over. Because I made an exception for that guy. I was like, there's no way this dorky guy is ever gonna screw me over. And he did. And I was like, don't make an exception to the rule. Cause you don't know them. You really don't.

[Aurora Culpo]

You don't. And I thought that there was an exception with my marriage too, where I was like, oh, well, what we have is so special. Like, I like. Or like, non monogamy isn't gonna ruin our relationship. It might do that. To other people's relationships. Cause their relationships are not like as special as ours. Which turns out like we also were not the exception to the rule. Turns out like rarely are you the exception, Right?

[Anna Kai]

Most of the time you're the rule.

[Aurora Culpo]

Yeah, you're the rule.

[Anna Kai]

Do you think what you're looking for now in a man and a partner has changed since dating Mikey? Or are you still looking for a man that marches to the beat of his own drum but maybe just isn't cheating on you?

[Aurora Culpo]

Yeah, well, definitely monogamy. I know that I need that. I think a part of me. When I get lazy or tired or if I'm just not in my flow, I think I can default to that I wanna find a man to save me kind of thing where if. When I get that relationship, like, everything's gonna feel whole. When I get that, like, blended family that I want or when I, you know, so I have to check myself. But I. I do generally think that my type is the same in. In certain ways. Like, I want a man, a manly man. I do like, like traditional gender roles in a way. But I also.

[Anna Kai]

You make your own bread, so.

[Aurora Culpo]

Yeah, yeah, I make my own bread, but I also need to there a guy needs to be with me. Making money on the Internet. Like not an only fans yet. I mean, yet. Maybe. I don't know.

[Anna Kai]

Never say.

[Aurora Culpo]

Never say never. Because honestly, sometimes it sounds like, I don't know, like feet pics. Sure, why not?

[Anna Kai]

Literally the people who are like, yeah, I got an onlyfans. I make a million dollars from my feet. I'm like, who knows that it's my feet. I actually have a jacked up pinky toe.

[Aurora Culpo]

So we would know.

[Anna Kai]

So we would know. But I'm like, oh, but maybe that would sell. It's called. It's a birth defect. It's called an overlapping fifth toe. And my pinky shoe market for that.

[Aurora Culpo]

You might be like elite on. What is it? Foot feet. Foot finder. Feet finder.

[Anna Kai]

Foot fetish. Finder. Feet fetish finder. I know that was before OnlyFans. Yeah, I'm sure there's a section are these like.

[Aurora Culpo]

There's so many of them on the Internet. But like, who are you in person? Have you ever met somebody in person who's like, I have a foot fetish? No, I'd like them to reveal themselves. What do you look like?

[Anna Kai]

And it's mostly men, right?

[Aurora Culpo]

I don't think I ever heard of a beer.

[Anna Kai]

I'm sure there are and it's cool, but it's Also, I guess it's a good thing we don't know about our co workers foot fetishes.

[Aurora Culpo]

Right.

[Anna Kai]

It's like it's probably somebody closer to you than you think. But it's good that the guy sitting next to you, you don't know his kinks in the cubicle because it would be very strange.

[Aurora Culpo]

There's this book called Want that I actually was. I learned about through my podcast. Cause I do ads for it and I read it. I'm starting to read it. All these little articles from women around the world. Different socioeconomic status, different cultures, whatever. But they write these anonymous articles about their like secret sexual fetishes. And it's so interesting what some women are into like pea fetishes and like.

[Anna Kai]

Oh, like being urinated.

[Aurora Culpo]

Yeah. Or like seeing a penis pee is like a turn on for.

[Anna Kai]

Oh my God.

[Aurora Culpo]

They're quite a bit.

[Anna Kai]

I guess that's a turn off.

[Aurora Culpo]

But that's. But we don't. We think women are just like, oh, you know, normal and stuff. But people do have some weird ass fetishes.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. I mean, 50 shades of grey did so well because people are kinky and.

[Aurora Culpo]

Weird and also like full bellies People have a fetish for like a woman with this. Because some, not all of them are straight either. So it's like gay stories, bi story, whatever. And like a woman's belly after she eats, like looking pregnant from food is a fetish. That is, that's like a whole chapter.

[Anna Kai]

That is so interesting. So a pizza baby is a fetish.

[Aurora Culpo]

Yes.

[Anna Kai]

Interesting. And here we are thinking I'm not cute after I eat. Oh my gosh, I'm so bored.

[Aurora Culpo]

We could be turning on like just the girl sitting next to us at the restaurant. Who knows?

[Anna Kai]

You never know. My mind has been blown. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not, but hey, it's life. That's great.

[Aurora Culpo]

Yeah, we're surprised. There's always something to learn.

[Anna Kai]

There is always something to learn, you know? And you said back to your point. It's like, oh, the guys always ghost after or they're less interested after I have sex with them. And it's like I think that basically it's not the sex, it's never about the sex. It's just about the fact that, you know, they got you. And that was maybe their fetish was just to get you. Right? That was.

[Aurora Culpo]

Yeah, that was it. They just wanted you to break your own rule.

[Anna Kai]

Exactly. That's in and of itself a fetish. Right. It's Just to be like, she can't be gotten. So I'm gonna get her, and I'm gonna prove to that I can do it. And it's like a notch on their belt, almost.

[Aurora Culpo]

So annoying. That made me just like, now I'm remad at the last guy that I did that with. Such a jerk. He, like, really acted like he liked me so much. And then I had sex with him, and he was. And I didn't even. I really didn't like him, but I was so. Felt so rejected when he was like, I don't know if this is working. You know? I'm like, yeah, no shit. Like, I've been pretty much saying that now with words for the last, like, couple weeks. Weeks. Why did you make me have sex with you? Like, you know when you're just, like, fine, like, you just kind of give them what they want?

[Anna Kai]

Well, the worst thing is being broken up with a guy that you didn't really like that much in the first place, but you were kind of going along with. I have a very close girlfriend who dated a guy for a year, and in the beginning, she was like, I'm not quite sure. I don't know. I guess he's a good guy. And she had just been dumped by a guy she was super in love with, and. And then, you know, she kind of warmed up to him. Cause they work on you. That's the thing. And she warmed up to this guy that she wasn't super into in the beginning. And then after a year, he broke up with her, and she was like, it's so frustrating that he broke up with me because I wasn't that into him in the beginning, and he was the one pushing it along, and he was the one trying to really get me to commit. And now I'm the one feeling heartbroken over a guy that I wasn't sure that I liked to begin with. But I think that's the thing. It's like, men can't be convinced to fall in love with women. Whereas I think women can be worked on. Like, I dated a guy in college who. I remember when I first met him junior year, I was like, this man. I said to my best girlfriend. We were all studying abroad in Shanghai, and it was this program that NYU did with a university out there. And I met him on this bus that was taking us to campus, and I just thought he was so obnoxious and so disgusting. And he just had this very bravado energy about him. And I was like, that is the most disgusting human on the face of the earth. And I was like, ew, I would never touch him with a 10 foot pole. And we started off. Cause in college you just hang out together as friends. And then we started off hanging out as friends. And I thought he was quirky and funny and I was like, okay, but I would still never hook up with you. And then you get to know them. And then he made it very clear that he was into me. And he just kept working on me.

[Aurora Culpo]

Yeah, he's like, I can tell how much you hate me. I'm gonna work on you.

[Anna Kai]

And he worked on me for a year and a half. And then I was drunk one night at his apartment and we made out and I was like, oh, I actually am in love with you because we're best friends. And I always wanted that friendship with my partner. And I fell super hard for him, even though he was not physically what I wanted at first. And he had really bad breath.

[Aurora Culpo]

Isn't that the worst?

[Anna Kai]

So it was so bad. And people, other people knew it too.

[Aurora Culpo]

They had like a reputation for it.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like when he stood next to you and people were like, how do you make out with that? But truly, love is not only blind, it's also. What is the word for.

[Aurora Culpo]

I don't know. What's the word for not being able to smell?

[Anna Kai]

I don't know. I looked it up. I looked it up at one point. There is a word for smell blindness, but you can't smell. Was. I was like, I smell it, but I don't care. It's like, you know when you smell like, I'm sure with your kids. I don't like with my dog, she smells, but I love the smells. Like your kids.

[Aurora Culpo]

It's like when your husband snores but you love him. It's like the snoring. His snoring doesn't bother you?

[Anna Kai]

It's endearing.

[Aurora Culpo]

Yeah. It's like my kid snoring I think is cute. My ex husband's snoring. I want him to stab him in his sleep.

[Anna Kai]

Right, exactly. Cause you love them. And it's like, in a way, it's morbid. I think about this with my dog. I'm like, one day when you're not here, I'm gonna miss how much you smell. Cause it reminds me of you.

[Aurora Culpo]

Right.

[Anna Kai]

So. But he worked on me and then I was so ready to commit to him. And he was Jewish and he said that being married to a Jewish woman was very important to him. So I said, I'll convert for you.

[Aurora Culpo]

Oh, My God. He's like, that's too intense for me.

[Anna Kai]

Well, then he just decided that he didn't want to be with. I think he didn't want to be with a woman who had to convert to Judaism. He wanted to with somebody who was born into the Jewish faith, which, by the way, is totally fair. We were 22. You're figuring yourself out. But he left me pretty unceremoniously and then didn't want to give me any closure. Really wouldn't explain why. I kind of only realized why very long after the fact. He just said. It was very vague. He said he could not do the things he wanted to do while dating me. I was like, I have no idea what that means. But I remember begging him to stay. I was like, I will give you more freedom. I will. I'll leave you alone for as much as I. I just groan. You're like, I'll go away. I'll go away as. As long as you stay.

[Aurora Culpo]

If I'm gone, just call me.

[Anna Kai]

Just be my boyfriend. And it's shocking that I was willing to do that.

[Aurora Culpo]

No, I know sometimes when I think back at some of the things I did, I'm like, oh, no, no, no. Why would you do that?

[Anna Kai]

But in the moment, you're literally willing to just put aside all of your dignity for the sake of not being alone.

[Aurora Culpo]

Do you know what I did when I found out that my husband was cheating? We're sleeping around. Whatever. I did not do what you might think, like, you know in the movies where they take all his clothes and throw it outside to the front yard or whatever, Like, I'm leaving. No, I went out and bought, like, thousands of dollars worth of sexy lingerie to, like, try to be hotter than this, like, little bimbo that he was, like, slept with. Isn't that so? Like, I'm like, oh, my God, you're so pathetic. When I think back at that. And I.

[Anna Kai]

You were trying so hard to save what you knew and to, like, be.

[Aurora Culpo]

Better and to win like, that. It was, like, brought out, like, the competition in me or the. The part of me that felt like I needed to prove that I could be chosen and that, like, you don't you that, like, that my sex is better than anybody else's. You don't need to go elsewhere for it where, like, I was missing the whole picture. It had nothing to do with me.

[Anna Kai]

It was not a deficiency on your end. It was just who he was. That no matter who you were. And when I look at these massive A list celebrity breakup and sometimes when the man cheats on like a complete Giselle, full specimen of a human.

[Aurora Culpo]

Yeah. Adriana Lima. I'm like, what?

[Anna Kai]

I'm like, you cheated on that. I mean, it really isn't about the woman. You could literally be married to the perfect specimen of a woman. Obviously we're talking about very superficial qualities here because we don't know them personally, but, like, let's just take that for what it is and it still wouldn't be enough. It has nothing to do with that. It has everything to do with a man. Do you think there was something in your childhood? Because I do think childhood screws us all up one way or another. Even if we had the most well intentioned family or whatever. Do you think there's something in your childhood that led you to want to prove yourself to men in relationships? Because I have psychoanalyzed myself so many times. I've gone to so many years of therapy. I know where my shit comes from.

[Aurora Culpo]

Oh, yeah, I know where mine. I've done the whole where does it come? Process. I've done ketamine treatments for trauma. I've done so much therapy, I know exactly where it comes from. My dad, love him to death. He is my greatest supporter and, you know, in a lot of ways, like one of my best friends. But the guy fucked me up. Like, he was just like, he's one of those people. He would run like multiple marathons every year. He's one of those people. You don't want to be caught sitting on the couch in his presence because he'll just make you feel like the laziest person in the world. He's very like, I'm one of five. He would line us up and make us race each other. Like it was always with. Everything was a competition. He himself is motivated by, like, competition for me. And I think for a lot of women, that's not how. That's not the, the most effective form of motivation for to hear, like, oh, well, so and so got into Harvard, like, what are you gonna. Or she aced her S a ts. It was always like trying to convince. Trying to get me to perform better by comparing me to my siblings or other people. Well intentioned, but also like really up. And I think just growing up and you know, people being like, it kind of just. He didn't. I don't think anybody said it, but it was like you said before, like the Disney princess, like, you're going to be saved by a man and that's just what's going to happen. And to Be chosen is, is the best thing. And even to this day, like now I. Now what I've learned is like, I love my dad, but he's not the person that I'm going to talk about my dates with, because he will, he'll trigger that in me. That can then really hurt my feelings. Like when I went out with a guy last year, I was telling him about it and he's like, oh, well, do you think he liked you? And I was just like, why do you phrase it like that? Like, why don't you ask me if I liked him? But in his heart, like, he just wants me to be protected and he wants me to be safe and he thought that this was a good guy and he wants the guy to like me because he doesn't want the guy to leave me. You know, that sort of thing. But what I hear is like, you need to convince people to like you, right? Which is, which is hurtful, right?

[Anna Kai]

And you heard that over and over growing up. And so now it's like ingrained in you to act that out. But at least you know it, right?

[Aurora Culpo]

100%.

[Anna Kai]

And so you can, even though maybe you're not perfectly recovered from all those bad habits, you can catch yourself when you do it now, right? And it's an act of practice. Practice, totally.

[Aurora Culpo]

Because we can default to that all the time, just like I said. And I think that's really interesting, like that you don't drink. And one of the things that I find like when I'm do, when I've done a few months sober, I do find it easier to not fall into those default patterns. Like I feel like the things that, you know, that kind of chip away at your self esteem or, or make you more anxious, whatever that might be. Like, maybe it's not alcohol, but maybe it's like, I don't know, eating crappy food or something. You know, it's like it makes it harder for you to catch yourself when you're falling into those like, default modes because they're comfortable.

[Anna Kai]

And I think people mistake something that's comfortable for something that they should be doing. And I always think that what my parents kind of taught me through their life, not so much what they said, but what they did, was that actually the best things in your life will come from the most, most uncomfortable situations you throw yourself in. I mean, they came to this country with no money, not speaking the language. If they wanted to be comfortable, they certainly were not acting like it. And they were uncomfortable for many years. Like the first decade of our Life in the US Was such a struggle, and life is not meant to be comfortable. I think it's meant to be meaningful. And I think when we default too much into that comfort, we inhibit ourselves from being with the people that we're meant to be with, from doing the things we're meant to do. Right. It's like when you're not feeling good and you take that drink and then you allow yourself to sleep with a guy that maybe you're not that into, but feels like a warm, comforting blanket for now.

[Aurora Culpo]

How did you know my introduction to our podcast episode that we just did. I have to go record the introduction to the episode we just recorded for my podcast.

[Anna Kai]

Oh, I didn't even know that literally.

[Aurora Culpo]

What my introduction is about. Like getting drunk and sleeping with a guy.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah, but like, you wouldn't have done it sober.

[Aurora Culpo]

Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. Recently, I asked Mint Mobile's legal team if big wireless companies are allowed to raise prices due to inflation. Inflation? They said yes. And then when I asked if raising prices technically violates those onerous two year contracts, they said, what the are you talking about? You insane Hollywood. So to recap, we're cutting the price of mint unlimited from $30 a month to just 15amonth. Give it a [e-mail] switch. $45 upfront payment, equivalent to 15 per month new customers on first 3 month plan only. Taxes and fees, extra speed slower above.

[Anna Kai]

40 gigabytes of details, right?

[Aurora Culpo]

No, absolutely not.

[Anna Kai]

Alcohol gives you permission to do this. Things you shouldn't be doing because they feel comfortable and they make you feel good in the moment. I just had lunch with a girlfriend and she told me about this guy that she's gone on a couple dates with and she's hooked up with, and he's really not good to her at all. And she's like, but he's funny and he's a good hang. And I have nothing going on in my life right now, so it's like, not that dangerous. I know he's not the one. Like, I'm just gonna. If he asks me out again, I'll go out with him because I'm not seeing anybody else. But I'm like, but if you go out with him again and even the mental space that he's taking up in your mind, you are actively allowing him to take up space in your life that now inhibits you from maybe swiping a couple more times on hinge, right? So it's not so much the fact that you're just allowing him to sort of be in your life as a fun time if your goal is to find a husband. Women almost don't do anything just for fun. There's always an angle, right?

[Aurora Culpo]

Always.

[Anna Kai]

You always try to convince yourself, no, but, like. And it's comforting to have somebody to text who meets you out at the end of the night to go home with, so you don't have to be like, okay, well, I went out, I had a good time, and now I'm going home alone. That's comforting, but it's not productive, because then it just puts you psychologically more into a space that you shouldn't be, and you can only be in one space at a time.

[Aurora Culpo]

Oh, you're so right. I don't even want. You're just so right. Okay, I need to. I'm gonna be re. Listen, this is gonna be the only episode I ever record that I re. Listen to. I'm gonna. Writing all this stuff out.

[Anna Kai]

So don't drink. Don't drink. No, but it's like. And I think that's the thing is, like, alcohol was an excuse for me to do the things that I shouldn't be doing, and not even so much. Like, I was married and happily so by the time I quit drinking. But I went through periods of sobriety in my 20s because I was like, I just really need to face what I want and who I am and how sometimes that's not very glamorous to the outside world.

[Aurora Culpo]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

So breaking up with a boyfriend, I think, is emotionally devastating enough. I've never had to break off a marriage, and I've certainly never had to break off a marriage with kids involved.

[Aurora Culpo]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

How did you guys break the news to Remy and Soleil?

[Aurora Culpo]

That was, like, one of the things that I lost the most sleep over because I was so worried about how they would feel. And, you know, the guilt really plagued me for a while. And when I finally did tell them, mind you, they were two and four, they could have cared less. Like, they literally did not care. And that's what I'm so grateful for, because they love their dad and they don't have a preference in a parent. Like, they. They're happy to go with him, and they're happy to go with me, which is so comforting because I know there's a lot of parents where, like, the kids don't want to go to the dad's house, or they don't want to go to the mom's house. Really? They usually don't want to go to the dad's house. My kids Love to go to the dad's house because they get to watch YouTube. No, he's. He's a great dad. Like, very hands on it. You know, like, when you confront things that I. That you are so afraid of, a lot of times you find that most of that fear was just completely made up in your head. And I think more than anything, like, to have two parents that love that, you know, that love you and that get along with each other and are not bashing each other. I don't think divorce is what fucks up kids. I think it's when parents have a very tumultuous relationship and that bleeds into the energy of the children. That's when it can really affect them. Would it be, you know, would it be nice if we could all live together in the same house? Like, logistically, it's a pain in the ass sometimes. And, you know, a lot of the conversations I do have with my kids throughout the week are on FaceTime. But they. They're right down the street.

[Anna Kai]

They.

[Aurora Culpo]

They're not missing me. And I think, if anything, it's making them, like, pretty well adjusted kids. So I was happy. I got to do it when they were young, too. I think it. Maybe it's harder when they're a little older.

[Anna Kai]

Do you think they understood the concept of divorce? How did you explain it? Like, what was the actual verbiage you used when you sat them down?

[Aurora Culpo]

We love you guys so much, and we just feel that we can be better parents to you if we don't live in the same house. We still love each other and we're still a family, but we're not. We're not. Mama and Papa, they call him Papa, are not married anymore. But, like, in a way, I think my son is, like, kind of still in denial. Like, he'll be like. He'll call him my husband sometimes. And I'm like, no. Remember, we're not married. And he's like, okay, like, whatever you say. Like, he's not. Like, he doesn't really get it because none of his friends. Parents are divorced. We did it. What I've noticed is like, kindergarten, first, second grade, the parents are still together. It's not till, like, the later years the parents start separating, and then a lot of.

[Anna Kai]

At which point they'll come to you for advice.

[Aurora Culpo]

Yes, exactly. Hopefully I'll have some good advice to give them by that point. Cause I'm still figuring it out. But yeah, I mean, it broke my heart for a while, but we were getting into the groove of it, and That's. I'm grateful for that because it was tough.

[Anna Kai]

It is good that you did it young because I had a girlfriend who had a child with. And she's still married to him, her husband. And they were going through a really rough patch and they talked about divorce to the point that they took. Told their families that they were getting a divorce and then they decided to work it out. But it hasn't been a great marriage. And I talk to her all the time and she's like. I'm like, how are you guys doing? And she's like, we're okay. I'm like, that's really not great. And honestly, if you're going to do it, you should do it now. When your daughter is too young to really know what's going on, she won't know anything different. I have a girlfriend who's going through a divorce right now and her husband actually left her while she was pregnant, which is insane.

[Aurora Culpo]

Insane. Like, at least, God, you can't wait nine months so you don't look like a complete asshole. I guess it's worse when the baby comes too. There's really no good. There's really no good time.

[Anna Kai]

There's no good time. But he left her. And the only saving grace I said for her, I was like, your son will never know any different.

[Aurora Culpo]

That's true.

[Anna Kai]

And he will not be fucked up in a way where if this happened while he was 10 and he's fully cognizant that this isn't the case with everybody else's families, that he'll be really messed up from it. And she moved in with her parents and they're Asian, so it's a very kind of intergenerational family. The grandparents are helping out and I'm like, that's great. He has so much love in his life. You know, he's the love of three adults. He doesn't need the dad.

[Aurora Culpo]

So the dad's not in the.

[Anna Kai]

The dad is somewhat in the picture, but not in a way that's. He's kind of like a part time nanny almost.

[Aurora Culpo]

Yeah, that's not it. That's sort of. I mean, whatever though.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah, he says he wants to be in the kid's life, but he's not really in the kid's life. And it was a very messed up situation what happened. I mean, obviously, dude, if you're gonna leave your wife, don't do it when she's six months pregnant. Maybe don't try for a kid. Okay, I know, like, this was. And this was not an Oops. Baby. They got married and they planned to have a child and they tried and they had a kid.

[Aurora Culpo]

I know someone else that this happened to also. Yeah. It's so interesting like that. I don't know. It's so interesting how somebody could just kind of change their mind.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. Or it's like all of a sudden they realize that it is very real, that it's not just a joke, that there is a baby coming and they're not ready to be a father in the way that they really need to step up to the plate. And I think it's so bizarre. But you've talked a lot about guilt on your channels, and I think what you said was so interesting was that you've felt a lot of guilt as a mom, which obviously, because you're divorcing your husband and you're spending time with the kids. And, you know, you have talked about how that has affected your children, but you also talked about this concept where you recently realized that you shouldn't feel guilty for not being a man and how men's cycles are 24 hours versus women's are a full month. Can you talk a little bit more about that? Because I thought it was such an interesting conversation and it kind of blew my mind because I dread the two weeks before my period, and then for two weeks, I'm the best person alive. And then like the 10 days before my period. Don't talk to me.

[Aurora Culpo]

I feel you, sister. I actually was recently diagnosed with pcos, which makes a lot of sense for, like, my moods, kind of, and even, like, my ADHD symptoms. A lot of that can be a result of pcos, which comes with a host of different symptoms, one of them being, like, horrible pms. And I started reading a lot of books on the female hormone cycle. One of them was called Period Power. And it talks about how the different phases of our cycle can actually be used, can be looked at as a superpower rather than a hindrance. Like, when we are more right before we get our period, when our progesterone is high, higher, and we're feeling a little bit more introverted. It's a chance to listen to ourselves and to kind and to rest and. And not to be as social and not to make as many, like, quick decisions about things and to kind of take that as an opportunity to kind of look at what's happened during your. During the first two weeks of your cycle when you were more social and saying yes to a lot of things. It's kind of a time where you get to Reverse view. And that's important because if you're the same way every day, you're not. You're not. You don't have any more, like, of a special ability. Like, you know, if you can't see, then your. Then your smell increases, or if you can't hear, then your ability to see is. Is usually sharper. And that's kind of what happens with a woman. Like, some of our abilities are dampened and some are heightened during different parts of our cycle. So, like, really learning how to lean into those is something that can be used as a tool. I mean, unfortunately, with pcos, like, you can take birth control and it will basically shut down your cycle, and then you don't have these. These abilities. Like, you don't have. You don't have your hindrances, but you also don't have the abilities. And so what I'm choosing to do is use acupuncture to kind of get to the root cause rather than take birth control, which is. I'm a little. I'm a little afraid to say that because the doctor who put me on the birth control is one of the best OB GYNs in the world. I had her on my podcast, and I haven't told her yet that I'm not going to take the birth control. But I've just been hearing, like, the more and more I read about how important it is for us to have a cycle and to have a healthy cycle and to really learn about each phase of the cycle and what we can use it for to our advantage, it makes me not want to shut it down, you know, because it makes us a woman. And. And the whole thing about guilt is, yes, part of the cycle is be. Is feeling guilty. And that comes in during the PMS phase, like, right before. So that comes in your luteal phase. And. But now that I'm aware of it and, like, I'm aware that it's my hormones and it's not inherently me. It's not like my soul. In my essence, I can just. Once you have that distance, it's easier to be like, okay, being guilty. Feeling guilty has never helped me with one thing in life. You know, having anxiety about something is not helpful, but it is an alert to take a second look at something which is important. You know, think about people who don't ever feel guilty.

[Anna Kai]

Sociopaths.

[Aurora Culpo]

Yeah, they're not usually people that you want, you know, in your circle.

[Anna Kai]

So it's all about sort of harnessing that. That guilt and learning about what it's Sending you the message.

[Aurora Culpo]

What message is it sending you? It's there to help you out.

[Anna Kai]

I love that.

[Aurora Culpo]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

And speaking of all things women and messages and everything, you developed a vaping addiction.

[Aurora Culpo]

I did.

[Anna Kai]

When you were going through your divorce.

[Aurora Culpo]

Sure. Did you? Because I'm 17 years old and I've never heard of nicotine addiction.

[Anna Kai]

But I think you said it started off pretty harmless. You just. You needed something, right? A crutch to just get you through this really, really brutal time in your life.

[Aurora Culpo]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

And then it just became something that you could not let go of. And you said that quitting vaping was the hardest thing you've had to do ever.

[Aurora Culpo]

Oh, my God.

[Anna Kai]

Which is shocking because you were going through a divorce, so you would assume that divorce was the hardest thing you've had to do ever. But quitting vaping was tougher. How did you quit? And has it. Have you gone back at all or you're fully off of it?

[Aurora Culpo]

I'm fully off of vaping. I did have like a two day little relapse actually like a month ago, but I was like, hell, no, I'm not going back to this. But yeah, no, I. So I've been done vaping for almost a year now.

[Anna Kai]

Congrats.

[Aurora Culpo]

Yes. Yeah. That was the hardest thing I ever had to quit. I picked it up because I was like, ugh, I'm not. It was when I had been sober for like eight months and I just didn't have a crutch and I felt like I needed an outlet in some way. And my sisters, actually, they're gonna kill me if I say that about whatever. I'll say, my sister's had it. Like, we were on vacation, whatever. And I just like, kind of take a puff of it. And then, you know, and then they're like, get your own. So, like, bought my own. Took a puff of it. And then, like, it comes home with me. And it's something you can do. Sneaky in the bathroom. The kids don't see you. It doesn't smell. It doesn't make your hands smell. And then slowly but fucking surely. And you know what? Not slowly, quickly. This toxin goes right into your bloodstream faster than a cigarette. And, you know, I had taken drugs of cigarettes growing up when I would, like, be out drinking. I never got addicted. So I was like, I'm not the kind of person who gets addicted to nicotine. Like, my ex husband smoked cigarettes. I always thought it was disgusting. I never, like, I. I never thought I could be a person that would be addicted to Smoking because it's bad for you and it's stupid. It's so dumb. Like, who? Ew. But I was like, I found myself being so hooked on this thing to the point where I would wake up in the middle of the night to pee and have to hit this vape.

[Anna Kai]

Oh, it got that bad?

[Aurora Culpo]

Oh, my God, it got so bad. It was like my dirty little secret. I liked that. I liked that it was so accessible to do. And what it did is I would take a hit of it and it would just give me, like, a surge of, like, energy and just happy hormones. And. And I did a bunch of research on it. And basically what it is, is, you know, it gives you a rush of serotonin, dopamine, and one other neurotransmitter that makes you feel good. And so no wonder it's so addicting. And it also is. It's so much more accessible. So I think that's why. And it hits your bloodstream much faster. So that's why. And then why was it so hard to quit? Because, well, it turns out nicotine, when you are reliant on it, your body stops making those hormones on its. So if you stop, you get very depressed.

[Anna Kai]

It's withdrawal.

[Aurora Culpo]

It's withdrawal. And it just never felt like the right time to be depressed. I was like, I don't have two weeks to be depressed. And is a good time to be depressed, especially when. Especially when, like, one puff would take away all the anxious feelings that it start that it created in the first place, you know? So I got on this cycle. I tried to quit like 10 times. I kept going back to it. Eventually I went on Wellbutrin. And Wellbutrin is a drug that. That. It's like an anti anxiety antidepressant, but it's also used for. To help people quit smoking because it kind of curbs the withdrawal a little. Just enough like, I did feel like shit for probably two weeks, but I was like, I'm gonna feel like shit for two weeks, and then it's gonna get better. And then I gained like 15 lbs. And. But I don't. I don't like to say that. Cause I don't want anybody who's thinking about quitting to be like, oh, I'm gonna feel depressed and get fat. It's like. It's kind of tricky. True. But then you're free. And there's nothing better than feeling free.

[Anna Kai]

So it's funny. I just started Wellbutrin.

[Aurora Culpo]

Oh, there you go. I just started vaping.

[Anna Kai]

Good for You. Can you imagine? How do I twist this into something positive? No, I just got on Wellbutrin. I was on Zoloft for a couple months over the spring and the summer to help with my anxiety, and then I got off of it because I was having a lot of. It sounds ridiculous, but I could not stop eating. On Zoft.

[Aurora Culpo]

I could not stop. I've been on both of them. You're going to like Wellbutrin.

[Anna Kai]

Okay, so it's too early to tell, but on Zoloft, my cravings were so intense. Like, I. It was like. It's almost like pregnancy cravings. I was eating sugar so much. I was eating so much sugar. I always wanted to get ice cream, whatever, a sweet treat, whatever. So I was like, this is not sustainable. So I stopped. And then I was. I was like, I probably don't need an ssri. I was like, I think I'm healed. I felt great. It absolutely changed my life. So 100% would recommend Zoloft. And I have a lot of girlfriends who are on it who did not have those same side effects. But I just.

[Aurora Culpo]

It worked for me really well after, for. Cause I had postpartum anxiety. A lot of people use it for that OCD type.

[Anna Kai]

Exactly. But I, A month ago, started feeling really depressed. And it wasn't so much the anxiety this time, as it was just like a mood disorder. So my psychiatrist, like, you should try Wellbutal, but it's not supposed to make you gain weight. It's supposed to help you lose weight.

[Aurora Culpo]

It actually, yeah, it will. So I gained weight. Not from the medication. I gained weight because you oftentimes do gain weight when you quit nicotine. Only because nicotine is an appetite suppressant. So I wasn't eating. And also because it completely destroys your hormones, like, so getting off of it. You gain weight, you eat more, you gain weight. I don't know if it's just because you're eating more. I think it's also to do with. It just messes up your metabolism.

[Anna Kai]

I'm sure that's what it is. And your body's used to this chemical sort of suppressing everything for a while, and then you don't have it.

[Aurora Culpo]

So.

[Anna Kai]

Are you still on Wellbutrin?

[Aurora Culpo]

I am not on Wellbutrin anymore. I got off of that. And you should get your hormones checked out, too, because one of the things that I realized from what I was always trying to call my adhd, my depression, my anxiety, whatever, throughout my life, I've gone through ups and downs, and I'M not sure if it's situational or chemical, but now you know yourself by your 30s and you're like, oh, this is chemical. Right. And it's. I think a lot of it is, is my hormones. So acupuncture really helped my hormones balance out better than. Better than any drug that I had taken before I went off the Albutrin after I stopped vaping. But then my. I still was feeling the depressive symptoms and I was like, is it pms? So then when I found out I had pcos, I started. Well, I just found out I had pcos, but I had been doing acupuncture kind of. My acupuncturist was like, I think you probably have it. So she was treating me as if I did, and my skin cleared up, my mood was great, so.

[Anna Kai]

So acupuncture really worked for you?

[Aurora Culpo]

It really did.

[Anna Kai]

How did you get your hormones checked? Like, through what kind of doctor?

[Aurora Culpo]

So my neurologist, I did like a hormone rhythm test. You can get it from your obgyn, but she could see the PCOS through an ultrasound. Okay. Cause you could see it on your ovaries. But there's like three different ways that you can. There's three different symptoms you have to have in order to have pcos. It's like PCOS looking ovaries, which you can find in an ultrasound or. And also irregular periods or high testosterone symptoms. So you don't actually have to have high testosterone, but high testosterone symptoms are like hair. Like thinning of your hair. Hair on your face. For some people, thankfully, I really didn't have that. And like. And, yeah. And irregular periods and like, moodiness, pms.

[Anna Kai]

Okay. And you had all the symptoms.

[Aurora Culpo]

I had the hair, yeah. Thank God I had everything but the beard. I don't think I would have been able to handle that.

[Anna Kai]

That would have been a lot. That would have been a lot. You were dating somebody and it came out in a public way, even though you were not trying to make it public. So now I guess he's your ex boyfriend. But I loved what you said about it on your podcast. You said, just because we can't be together doesn't mean that I'm mad at him. And it doesn't mean I still don't think he's an amazing person. And I thought that was so gracious of you because it's so hard to break up with somebody and not villainize them.

[Aurora Culpo]

Yes, well, I wanted to, but this was for, you know, it was for press. I had to make myself look Good. Just kidding.

[Anna Kai]

No, but it seemed like it was coming from a genuine place.

[Aurora Culpo]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

And it seemed like you had really made peace with it. And it wasn't a super long relationship, so maybe it was easier in that regard. I mean, do you feel like because you've had to make peace with Mikey and because of everything you've just had to almost make peace with in order to move on? Like, how have you found that grace within yourself to not villainize every guy that screws you over?

[Aurora Culpo]

Yeah, I know.

[Anna Kai]

Or doesn't screw you over, but just dumps you or whatever.

[Aurora Culpo]

It's hard. I think sometimes when I think I've really matured and I don't villainize any man anymore, and I can take rejection so well, then, like, a guy will come along and reject me, and I'm like, you know, bedridden over it. In this particular case. Case, I think. I think it was easier because I really knew that we weren't meant to be together. He was a nice guy, you know, Could I have found things to say about him that. That weren't that nice? Sure. But, like, it never makes you look good when somebody dumps you and then you're like, well, he was a jerk anyway. It's like, okay, you would say that because you just got dumped. Yeah. And ultimately, you know, he. He. He was a good guy. He didn't do anything horrible to me. He treated me very well when we dated. So, like, I don't really have any. Anything to say about it.

[Anna Kai]

You just weren't meant to be together. How is it dating in the public eye?

[Aurora Culpo]

Am I in the public eye? I mean, I guess I. I'm choosing to be because I have a podcast where I talk all about my dating, but online. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Although I don't really share anything about my dating on my Instagram that much. But, yeah, I mean, I don't know. I don't. I don't mind being in the public eye. I think what I'm realizing is that some people do, which is. Which is something that I kind of need to, I think probably address earlier on in my dating, just be like, do you care if I mention you anonymously on my podcast? You care if. Do you not want me to mention anything about any of our interactions on my podcast? Which, like, I'm. I'm open to, but I think I haven't really been asking, and I've just kind of been, like, anonymously talking about my dates, and I don't know, it hasn't really worked out that well for me. I don't know if that's why, maybe it's me, but I did have a guest on who, who said that you should never share anything in its infancy because then it's now it's susceptible to the energies of the world. And maybe that's what's been happening. I don't know. I think that there's truth to that, but I don't think that my relationships. I don't think I haven't found the one yet because I've been talking about my dates on my podcast.

[Anna Kai]

Right. I agree. I agree with what that guest said because I do. I don't like to tell people that I'm doing something in the midst of doing it. I told nobody about my podcast when I was recording it, even me, who.

[Aurora Culpo]

Was like, will you come on my podcast? And you're like, sure. I wish I knew you were gonna be in la. I wouldn't have taken a red eye last night.

[Anna Kai]

I did not know. To be fair, I'm going to LA in two weeks, which I don't know when this episode will air, but it'll probably be after. I did not know I was gonna be in la or else we would have recorded there.

[Aurora Culpo]

But that's okay. We're gonna have to see each other there too.

[Anna Kai]

Round two. Round two. There's more to talk about. But yes, I just, I do think outside energy can throw off plans, and especially maybe not so much with relationships, actually end in your career. I think people love to give you their opinion, whether or not it's right or wrong or whatever, it's just their opinion. And sometimes even the most strong minded of us can take that opinion and if it's not our opinion, be like, well, but are they right? You know, is this the right move for me or not? And so I just don't like to tell people about anything I'm doing until I do it. But again, I think if you really met the one, you know, it would not matter that you were talking about them. But I think it is probably good to talk about that with a guy and just to maybe bring it up.

[Aurora Culpo]

Yeah, I think it's probably like the integrous thing to do to give them that option.

[Anna Kai]

Right. So maybe try that next time, see how it goes.

[Aurora Culpo]

All right, fine.

[Anna Kai]

Okay. So you recently said, I want to end on this question. You said in a video you're making homemade bread in this, and that you're practicing consistency over perfection, which I loved. But what does that look like on a day to day basis. And what is your advice to women who still feel like they need to be perfect in order to live a good life?

[Aurora Culpo]

Well, you're not going to be able to do that, so you might as well just quit while you're ahead. Because if your goal is perfection, you will disappoint yourself over and over again. And I think what it really comes down to for me is feeling proud of myself and feeling like I am keeping my own word to myself. So if I'm, if my goal is perfection, I'm setting myself up for failure and then my self esteem will suffer. So that is really what I try. Just to take baby steps in the right direction every day, knowing that I will fall down and focusing more on the recovery and putting more emphasis on getting back on the horse rather than beating myself up about falling down because it's inevitable.

[Anna Kai]

That's great. Be kind to yourself effectively.

[Aurora Culpo]

Yeah, I love that.

[Anna Kai]

Thank you so much for being here. Where can people find you?

[Aurora Culpo]

You can find me Aurora Culpo on Instagram and then my podcast is barely filtered. Anywhere you listen to your podcast and then Instagram it's barely filtered. Pod.

[Anna Kai]

Thanks so much.

[Aurora Culpo]

Thank you. Taxes was taxing. Now taxes is relaxing.

[Anna Kai]

When you file for free I can file for free TurboTax Free Edition. Roughly 37% of filers qualify. Simple Form 1040 returns only. See if you [e-mail] free I can file for free now this is Taxes File for free with TurboTax Free Edition and get your maximum refund.

[Aurora Culpo]

No schedules except for earned income tax credit, child tax credit and student loan interest. See if you [e-mail] free.