Why you should go for the nerd with Brandon Berman and Harrison Forman, the creators of UpDating

Summary

Podcast Summary: Brutally Anna - "Why You Should Go for the Nerd with Brandon Berman and Harrison Forman, the Creators of UpDating"

Introduction

In this episode of Brutally Anna, host Anna Kai welcomes Harrison Forman and Brandon Berman, the dynamic duo behind the innovative live dating show UpDating. Launched in 2018, UpDating has captivated audiences with its unique approach to matchmaking, amassing over three million followers and selling out venues worldwide. Anna delves deep into their journey, exploring how they turned unconventional ideas into a thriving platform for love and entertainment.

Origins of UpDating

Anna Kai begins by uncovering the origins of UpDating, highlighting the serendipitous meeting between Harrison and Brandon. Introduced by a mutual acquaintance connected to the Howard Stern Show, their collaboration blossomed from pen pals to partners in creating a live dating experience.

Harrison Forman [02:31]: "We went back and forth about what we liked, didn't like. We liked all the same stuff."

Their shared passion for stand-up comedy and live performance set the foundation for UpDating. Initially struggling to gain traction on social media platforms like Facebook and Instagram, they persisted with their vision despite early setbacks.

Brandon Berman [08:42]: "Nothing works without consistency."

Growth and Challenges

The podcast delves into the challenges Harrison and Brandon faced in the early years, including low follower counts and the evolving landscape of social media. Their breakthrough came with the advent of TikTok, a platform that perfectly matched their video-centric content. Through relentless consistency and creative content tailored to TikTok's algorithm, UpDating began to gain significant traction.

Brandon Berman [07:00]: "We keep doing it, and that's it."

Their first major success outside New York City occurred in Philadelphia, where they discovered that TikTok was instrumental in attracting audiences to their shows. This expansion marked a pivotal moment, demonstrating the power of social media in modern matchmaking.

The "Nerd" vs. "Hot Guy" Paradigm

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the show's philosophy of encouraging listeners to "go for the nerd" rather than the traditionally 'hot' guys. Drawing inspiration from the 2004 rom-com The Girl Next Door, Harrison and Brandon emphasize the importance of personality and authenticity over superficial attributes.

Nicole Richie [82:36]: "Go for the nerd. Not only is he going to, you know, is it going to be better? He's probably bigger."

This approach challenges conventional dating norms, promoting the idea that genuine connections stem from deeper compatibility and shared values rather than mere physical attraction.

Relationships and Personal Lives

Anna Kai explores the personal relationships of Harrison and Brandon, shedding light on their own romantic journeys. Harrison shares his relationship with Marin, highlighting the importance of friendship as the foundation for lasting love. Brandon discusses his relationship with Mel, emphasizing mutual respect and equality.

Harrison Forman [75:38]: "She's a visionary for her personal life, in a way, which is cool."

Their candid discussions about love, vulnerability, and the dynamics of modern relationships provide listeners with relatable insights, bridging the gap between personal experiences and broader dating trends.

Views on Relationships, Vulnerability, and Friendship

The guests delve into the complexities of maintaining friendships while fostering romantic relationships. They advocate for a balanced approach, where emotional openness and mutual support are paramount.

Anna Kai [54:32]: "I think dudes are just not taught to be open."

They also touch upon the societal expectations placed on men and women in relationships, advocating for equality and mutual understanding as cornerstones of healthy partnerships.

Advice for Women on Dating

Towards the end of the episode, Harrison and Brandon offer targeted advice for women navigating the dating landscape. They reiterate the importance of seeking genuine connections over superficial allure, encouraging women to look beyond conventional standards to find meaningful relationships.

Brandon Berman [82:52]: "Guys are the most loyal and also care less about the family."

Harrison adds that expanding one's dating pool beyond familiar geographic or cultural boundaries can lead to more fulfilling connections.

Harrison Forman [84:08]: "Find a guy in Texas. That's my advice. In the south, right?"

Final Thoughts and Closing

As the episode wraps up, Anna reflects on the authenticity and relatability that UpDating brings to the dating scene. Harrison and Brandon emphasize the importance of enjoying the process, ignoring negative feedback, and staying true to one's vision.

Harrison Forman [66:10]: "Have fun and just don't stop."

Their journey serves as an inspiring testament to the power of perseverance, creativity, and genuine human connection in the realm of modern dating.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Brandon Berman [07:00]: "Nothing works without consistency."
• Nicole Richie [82:36]: "Go for the nerd. Not only is he going to, you know, is it going to be better? He's probably bigger."
• Harrison Forman [75:38]: "She's a visionary for her personal life, in a way, which is cool."
• Harrison Forman [84:08]: "Find a guy in Texas. That's my advice. In the south, right?"
• Harrison Forman [66:10]: "Have fun and just don't stop."

Conclusion

This episode of Brutally Anna offers a deep dive into the innovative world of UpDating through the eyes of its creators, Harrison Forman and Brandon Berman. Their discussions on authenticity, relationship dynamics, and the importance of consistency provide valuable takeaways for anyone navigating the complexities of modern love.

Transcript

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[Nicole Richie]

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[Anna Kai]

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[Paris Hilton]

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[Nicole Richie]

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[Anna Kai]

Come on, we've got a show to do.

[Paris Hilton]

Paris and Nicole, the encore. A three part reunion special. Streaming now only on Peacock.

[Anna Kai]

Welcome to Brutally Anna, a podcast about finding love, losing love and all the things we think about but don't talk about enough. I'm your host Anna Kai, AKA maybe both across social media, here to remind you that life can be beautiful even when it's freaking brutal. My guest today, Harrison Forman and Brandon Berman are proof that you can go on a bad date and perform a bad set and still make something great out of it. Harrison and Brandon are the creators of the wildly popular one of its kind live dating show Updating and since its inception in 2018, they've amassed over 3 million plus followers across their social channels, sold out countless venues across the world and guarantee that even if you don't find the love of your life at their show, you'll at least find a good time. Harrison and Brandon, thanks so much for being here today.

[Harrison Forman]

Wow, thanks for having us Anna. That opening, I wish we had that.

[Anna Kai]

Daily but accurate, very accurate.

[Nicole Richie]

I love that man, you should be. That was like a new. That was the most news anchor type of statement we've ever gotten about updating.

[Anna Kai]

Appreciate the kind words copy and paste. I'll send it to you guys so you can use it as a little bio, right?

[Nicole Richie]

For real. You made our day.

[Anna Kai]

Take me back a little. I read that you were introduced by a news anchor in Vegas and you were pen pal.

[Nicole Richie]

But first you did your homework.

[Harrison Forman]

Wow, I love that.

[Anna Kai]

Was it like friendship at first that I feel like I'm interviewing a married couple? Like what was meeting like?

[Harrison Forman]

When you work together, it is like a marriage, you know, in a lot.

[Nicole Richie]

Of ways it's a different Kind. It's actually. Yeah, it is like a marriage.

[Anna Kai]

Well, marriage is a contract, I always say. So this is a different kind of marriage.

[Harrison Forman]

You're right. No, the first time we met. So this guy, Mike Davis, if he's listening, we love you, Mike. He had. We were kind of collaborating, and he reached out to me. He said, yo, there's a guy I interned with on the Howard Stern Show. He's the funniest dude I've ever met. I feel like you guys might work together. And I remember hopping on a Skype with Brandon. He. You were in, like, college. He looked like he was 16 or something. The room was pitch black, and he's on this, like, Skype call, like, cracking jokes. I'm like, what is going on right now?

[Nicole Richie]

Yeah, I was. Yeah. Harrison's a couple years older than me, and I was in College.

[Anna Kai]

Happy belated 30th, by the way. I saw that you just turned 30.

[Nicole Richie]

Turned 30 finally. Harrison always says, like, I've been in my. I've been in my. My twenties. I've lived. I've lived. But, you know, so we. I met this guy at the Howard Stern show, which was also a big influence for me creatively, and love this guy, Mike Davis. One of the sweetest guys. One of those people that. Just looking to do something for someone and not looking for something. And, yeah, he.

[Anna Kai]

Such a rare quality.

[Harrison Forman]

Very, very, very rare.

[Nicole Richie]

Rare.

[Harrison Forman]

And this was pre TikTok days, you know, where everyone's like, give me attention. You know, it was, like.

[Nicole Richie]

It was so authentic. We just met, and we became pen pals, and we're just. And. And this is people. A lot of people talk about, like, business. It's really just relationships. We developed a relationship for no reason, talked all the time, and we didn't even see each other in person for, like, two or three years. He was. I was on the east coast still finishing college, and, you know, whatever. He was on the West. And then, like, we, like, just talk, talk, talk, and, like, ideas came. We went back and forth about what we liked, didn't like.

[Harrison Forman]

We liked all the same stuff.

[Nicole Richie]

All the same stuff.

[Harrison Forman]

You know, we. We didn't. He was doing standup, and he would update me on how standup was going.

[Anna Kai]

He went to Facebook doing partnerships, which is so interesting.

[Harrison Forman]

Which is interesting. I did not belong there at all. Yeah, I would. I was like a monkey in a cage, you know, at these tech companies.

[Anna Kai]

Is that why you went on Facebook Live and started live streaming your dates?

[Harrison Forman]

That was one of the. Yeah, I was just so Miserable and very single, too.

[Anna Kai]

It was a ball that is. That takes another level of putting yourself out there.

[Harrison Forman]

It takes a level of crazy and psychotic. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it was very strange and awkward, and it was not good for my dating life. And this was many. It was.

[Anna Kai]

It was the same age. I'm. I'm 33. So you're what, 32? Yeah. If I had met you back when we were both single as fuck in New York City, because we were single probably in the same.

[Harrison Forman]

Totally.

[Anna Kai]

I would have been like, this guy's fucking crazy. I never going on a date with him.

[Harrison Forman]

That's how miserable I was. I'm like, you know what? Fuck it. I'm just going to do something crazy to get anyone's attention. And, yeah, I only did it a few times, but it caught on because it was like, I was just so ridiculous, what I was saying. And Brandon saw it.

[Anna Kai]

He was like, yeah, you had a bad set. I remember you said on an interview that you did a really bad set and you were feeling really down, and you went to a diner and, like, watched one of his Facebook lives to like, make yourself feel better.

[Nicole Richie]

Right?

[Anna Kai]

Or is that.

[Harrison Forman]

That was after a bad set.

[Nicole Richie]

So. No. So actually, the story. You're. You're almost very accurate. So I was doing stand up and stand up. I've just felt like a little p. I felt like a piece of sand on a beach, which I still do. And, like. But whatever. I'm like, I wanted. I. And I. And I'm doing sets, and I'm like, I have a different comedic style. I just fucking. I know how to like. And I'm thinking of Howard. I was at a diner watching a date. I'm like, this is so incredibly awkward, but I want to, like, find. I want to hear. And Harrison was doing these reports on Facebook, and I'm like, what if they went into a bathroom and we heard from the guy and the whole room heard it, Heard from the girl. Then we all found out together. It, like, mixed it like. I'm like, Harrison's Facebook thing. I want them to do this right now on the date, but I want the whole restaurant to watch.

[Anna Kai]

You are intrigued because people are so interested by other people's lives.

[Harrison Forman]

Obsessed. I mean. Yeah. Because why?

[Anna Kai]

Reality TV is a genre unto itself.

[Harrison Forman]

Correct. And the idea of putting it on a stage, which. Because Brandon knew how powerful a live show was, like, that was the. I remember he called. It was stormy. I was in San Francisco. I remember the exact moment when he called me. He was like, yeah, like there's something here with this live show. And I remember writing in my notebook Date Night Live, which was like.

[Anna Kai]

Which was the first.

[Harrison Forman]

And thank you.

[Anna Kai]

That you.

[Harrison Forman]

And thank God we did not keep that because we would. We would still have day jobs if we caught it. Date night.

[Nicole Richie]

We literally would. The branding on that. And the thing like. And I. And I. What I loved about stand up, you have to do it over and over and over. And I'm like, Harrison, like, we. Like, I have the skill. You have the skill. This guy's a fucking. This guy. I'm like, you need a. You need a quasi producer. And that's rare in this day and age. This is before social media, too. I go, we just gotta do this over and over. He literally just. He's like, all right, I'm gonna move to New York. And we just. Every single week. And we just didn't. We're like, we gotta keep going, keep going, keep going. And we just keep doing it. And that's it. Like, we.

[Anna Kai]

How long was it? Yeah, I know it's been a journey. And it's been six years, which is a long time. And I think about where I was in 2018. I mean, TikTok didn't exist.

[Nicole Richie]

Oh, my God.

[Anna Kai]

It was still the OG set of creators for, you know, women. They were just photos.

[Harrison Forman]

Right.

[Anna Kai]

I don't think there were even Instagram stories back then.

[Harrison Forman]

Totally. And that's why.

[Anna Kai]

Wait, there weren't.

[Harrison Forman]

There were no instagra.

[Anna Kai]

IG stories. Was like a 2020 thing. I think that was a pandemic thing.

[Harrison Forman]

And I was thinking about that the other day. The reason why, the first couple years we had no followers because Instagram was just memes at the time, right? Video on Instagram. And we were video guys. We were producing a show that you had to watch the video. Not a meme with, like, here's who won the date. That was not gonna hit. So we were pre video, and that's why we didn't grow on social media for the first two years.

[Nicole Richie]

And we got lucky because we're growing an act. We're perfecting it. So by the time they call. And I remember telling Harrison, cause we're like fig memes. I go, let's sit back here. This ain't for us. Video is going to change. I was like, it's good. This all can become video. I literally call them. I go, let's take a beat. And then TikTok came out, and it's just dancing. And I'm like, this is, I think, where we're going to go on this platform. And I remember our friend was like, dude, that's not for like the kind of video you guys have. I go, any platform that you share on that can spread in a certain way. This will pick up. If something's good, it's good. Let's focus on the craft. And we like, lo and behold, the pandemic ended were, you know, and now, you know, we're well into this three years and I. And by the end of 2021, slowly, I'm like, we're okay. There's a clip here, there's a clip there. And then like the following year, like, we're like, all right. And then suddenly. And Harrison and me love consistency. I go, nothing works without consistency. It started working on TikTok and then slowly and it's like. But it's.

[Harrison Forman]

It was crazy when it first started going viral. I mean, it was very exciting. Yeah, I was like a million views. We thought that was the most insane. One video. I remember. No, we thought 100k was cool. One video crazy. I was like, do we.

[Anna Kai]

I remember getting 50k views, 10k views, or even like anything past the 200, like graveyard on TikTok. I was like, oh my God. You know, right.

[Harrison Forman]

We were happy to have a K. You know, a 10k follow, a 10k view at the time, you know, when you're all.

[Anna Kai]

When I first started out was to have 50,000 followers on any platform. And I would have been happy with that. I was like, I'll make a part time income. It'll be great. I can pay my property taxes. Like, it was so. Yeah, nothing is as exciting as the beginning of when you're going viral.

[Harrison Forman]

Totally.

[Nicole Richie]

There's no.

[Harrison Forman]

Was crazy.

[Nicole Richie]

It was crazy. And the reason too, like, and I was editing these. I love the live show so much. I'm like, we got to sell tickets out of desperation. So what happens is then like the clips, it's like, what will sell a ticket? And that if you just think about tickets and make your content around tickets, it'll be awesome. If you just think about the soul, the singular. Let's get people to want to buy a ticket for this. And it like just over time, like, it's like. And then you're like, oh, wow. Like, we're traveling. Like, people found out about this through, like, it's the weirdest thing. It's like, yo, we just made these videos and people.

[Harrison Forman]

I think it was in Philly. It was one of our first ever shows outside New York. And we were asking fans like, how did you hear about it? And they said TikTok. I was like, what TikTok? Like, you heard about our show? And that was the start, and it was cool. It's emotional thinking about that.

[Anna Kai]

I know it is.

[Nicole Richie]

It's exciting.

[Anna Kai]

Well, because especially you two came from, you know, and I. You came from very different backgrounds and kind of you just went for it. So I want to ask you about this, because you said this in another interview. You said that the girl next door, the 2004 ROM com is sort of like the inspo behind updating. And by the way, I remember that because I'm your age. I loved late 90s, early 2000s rom coms. I don't think they make movies like that anymore. You know, it's not. I actually told my husband, I was like, we gotta rewatch this movie. Cause I forgot, like, how much I love that. But the line in the end that I always remember is Matthew. And I don't know if this was the analogy you guys were going for, but Matthew, the protagonist, says, in the end, as for me, I'm just going for it. And I thought that was an interesting parallel because. Whoa. In the four years ago, you guys did an interview with Today or some sort of Today show spinoff, and there was a contestant on your show. I think her name was Paige. And they were like, research.

[Nicole Richie]

Kudos to you.

[Anna Kai]

She was like, just like, you know what? I came to a show. This was so fun. Like, I'm just gonna, you know. And she was like, I have no game plan. Wing it. Like, that's the game plan, right? Is that the mo behind updating? Just sort of encouraging people to take a risk and see what happens? Because that's the girl next door. And that's how your life. And that's how my life. Like, I feel like I was like, we're in sort of the same, but sort of very different arenas. And I feel like some of the best things in my life have come out of very seemingly bizarre and actually really unfortunate and cringey situations. So for you guys, is that kind of the thinking or what was the girl next door analogy there?

[Harrison Forman]

It's a great opening to that question. So. Well, the girl next door, that I think two things with that movie really a. It was so silly. The movie didn't take itself seriously. Like, here are guys, nerdy guys that are working with porn stars. It was just the most ridiculous. And it was a. It was like an entrepreneurial journey too, you know, at the end, Hugo Posh.

[Anna Kai]

I know.

[Harrison Forman]

Who is like an inspiration. He was a cool guy. So, like, that movie, it's just funny, you know, it plays into the humor that we like. And with people not taking themselves too seriously, I think that's part of why people come on the show to, like, just let loose, you know, that's how growth happens. Right? Yeah. What's your take on Girl Next Door? I mean, that movie's emotional. We joke about it a lot.

[Anna Kai]

I know, but it's. But when he says he, like, created his own scholarship to Georgetown, in the end, I was like, oh, it is kind of an emotional scene. Right.

[Nicole Richie]

And what I love about that movie, it's. And it is sort of the influence of our show. A lot of comedies. And look, that show, it didn't. I don't think that movie didn't do that well in the box office. It didn't break in the zeitgeist like An American Pie or whatever. But what I loved about that movie specifically, and it. What really resonates. None of the actors are, like, comedians. No one's trying too hard. It's hilarious. And I'm like, whoever. What the writer was like. There's this, like, style of humor that really resonates with me and Harrison. Like, I. It's almost like we see a certain line, like, someone could be saying. There could be eight people saying the same sentence. One person's doing it in a way where they're not trying. And that movie has that sort of aura. And with our show, we're not looking to have someone on our show who's trying to be funny. We want normal people and people that may be overlooked a little bit that should be looked at. And that whole movie, Klitsy, Matthew Kidman was overlooked.

[Anna Kai]

We like the end, the final scene when they watch the film and he's got the fencing mask over his face. I was like.

[Harrison Forman]

And the people watching, like, this guy is so huge or something. Something.

[Anna Kai]

And so satisfying because you just see his smile. You know, they zoom in on him next to the two women. And I was like, this is for those of you who haven't watched this show or if you're too young to know this movie, go watch it. It's so, like. I don't know. They don't make movies like that anymore.

[Harrison Forman]

They really don't. It's sad. Yeah. And that's such a good point, because we find, like, Klitzy to be funnier than most comedians, honestly.

[Nicole Richie]

He's a huge actor now.

[Harrison Forman]

He's a huge.

[Nicole Richie]

Actor.

[Harrison Forman]

He's a phenomenal. Look what Happened there.

[Anna Kai]

There. Oh, and then who's the.

[Harrison Forman]

The juices worth the what's it.

[Nicole Richie]

That's the.

[Harrison Forman]

Not Johnny.

[Nicole Richie]

He was in that.

[Harrison Forman]

Johnny Knox. Timothy Olenek Oliphant. Timothy Ol.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Nicole Richie]

He's like hot and look that with at the end. That's my favorite thing about our show on updating like and I sometimes I wish we could see there are guys sometimes who are so nerdy they're not doing well. I'm like. I'm like, I know this guy's probably got a huge. I wish we could all see it because the whole room will shift. And that. That scene in that movie, I'm not kidding. When I was younger with Clitzy I would. I would watch over and over. My mom would walk in.

[Anna Kai]

Are you telling me you're the nerdy guy with a huge cock?

[Nicole Richie]

I'm not Klitsy. No.

[Harrison Forman]

That is so funny. Well, the movie 2004 or 8, it came out 2004. It almost foreshadowed a lot because the porn star, this gorgeous porn star, she was more into Klitsy than the jock. Right?

[Anna Kai]

Right.

[Harrison Forman]

She was like, you're so cute. And I think that foreshadowed dating today because like in our show, you know, we give nerdier guys a shot with the hot girl and sometimes it works, you know, that's really interesting.

[Anna Kai]

So my question is I think women can be attracted to men who they were not originally attracted to physically at first because it's a personality thing. But I don't know if men can do the same. I'll tell you something there interesting because I have.

[Nicole Richie]

What age were you when you met your husband?

[Anna Kai]

I was 20. Almost 28.

[Nicole Richie]

There you go. I'm gonna tell you something I say to everyone, you wanna meet your partner after like 25, 26. Cause girls shift. They're gonna want like you and your and girl trap themselves sometimes early with the guy that you're going to want at 18 or 28. And that's when a lot of relationships run into trouble. Yeah, he. He know. You know, dude, I saw the caliber of girls that were into me after 25 verse before they wouldn't even look. They will go right to that guy, the hot frack I But once I age and a little bit of like, you know, the. I guess the frontal part of your heads on they'll be into you like wait, be patient. I tell my younger sister this. Wait, don't meet a guy till you're 25. Pick the right guy.

[Anna Kai]

So I love sort of the Opposite. I have to say I agree. And I agree. I think for most women it's that way you start to realize because it's not just about who's fun to look at because looks fate. Like, my goal is to be the 95 year old woman, if I should be so lucky, to live that long next to her husband. And we're all like saggy and wrinkly and gray, but we're still like. My husband's my best friend. At the end of the day, he is the only person I want to hang out with on a Friday. Like more so than any other friend of mine.

[Harrison Forman]

Love that.

[Anna Kai]

And I always think who are like, no, you should have like a different best friend other than your husband. I'm like, no, you can have your girlfriends that your best friends and men, you can have your guy friends that are your best friends. But you are spending the most time with this one person. They should be your friend first, but you should also be attracted to them. And that's where I went wrong. When I was in my early 20s and in high school, I dated a ton of guys that I was friends with that I was not attracted to. And the opposite of most, I dated very unconventionally. In high school, in high school and in college. Mostly in college. I mean, high school, it's like you started dating like kind of late. But in college I dated a lot of guys who. I remember my, like, the relationship that like broke me. Cause I mean, every relationship broke me really. But this one really set me back mentally because we were graduating, I went to nyu, we were graduating. I was gonna go and become or try and become an actress, which is an incredibly difficult thing to try and do. I knew I was in for a lot of failure. And I had this guy that I was d. And I loved him. I was like so in love with him. And in the end I started to talk to you about this. He was Jewish. He still is Jewish, I believe. I think he's still alive. So we're gonna talk about him in the present tense. But he was in the middle of trying to figure out how Jewish he wanted to be and what. And I don't blame him for this because we were 21. He was like, you know, I can't get over the fact he wouldn't tell his parents we were together. He just told them. I. I was like, I'm a really good friend because I'm always hanging around. He was from Jersey and like, we would always see his parents and his dad would always say, you know, Anna would Be so perfect for you. If only she was Jewish. And so I told him I would convert for him.

[Nicole Richie]

Ooh.

[Anna Kai]

And I remember he was like, oh, you know, it's not that easy to convert to Judaism. It's not like getting baptized in Christianity. You just kind of make a decision and you can just do it, right? He was like, you're gonna get rejected a bunch of times by the rabbi. And, like, you really have to study. And I was like, I'm willing to do it. Cause I was to stay with this guy. I was like, you are the only thing I have. Like, I'm about to be unemployed and like. Like a struggling actress in New York.

[Harrison Forman]

You wanted this nice Jewish boy.

[Nicole Richie]

I wanted a nice Jewish boy.

[Anna Kai]

I was.

[Nicole Richie]

It's comforting, right?

[Harrison Forman]

It's like soup. It's like soup. You know, it is.

[Nicole Richie]

It ain't gonna look. It's comforting. It's not gonna give you an adventure, but you're gonna be able to sit on a couch and, like, get comfortable.

[Anna Kai]

It was great. And he. I think in the end, ultimately could not get over the fact that I was not born Jewish. He wanted to be with a woman who was actually born Jewish. Is that a thing? That's. By the way, like, guys are like.

[Nicole Richie]

That, you know, And Harrison, we talk about this a lot. I had dated non Jewish. I grew up in an area with very few Jews. I grew up in a very heavily Italian, Irish. I was the token Jew. And it. Which is probably why I have a little bit of humor. Like, you gotta be funny. No one wants to hang out with you. But my. And I dated non Jewish. My. My thing. And it did be my girlfriend, who I've been with now three years. She. She's Jewish. And I. When I had a couple, I had a moment when I was with someone not Jewish where someone made a Jew remark. And I'm like, ah, this hurt. I can't risk being. For me, it's out of risk if I go non Jewish. If there's a remark I hear, it's like sensitivity I want to avoid. I want to be in a space where I don't get offended more.

[Anna Kai]

Where was the remark from the person you were dating or from somebody they were.

[Nicole Richie]

Someone they were around?

[Harrison Forman]

Was it the father?

[Nicole Richie]

Something. Something along those lines. And it wasn't even. I don't. The guy didn't even mean it, like, intentionally.

[Anna Kai]

No, they never do.

[Nicole Richie]

And. But I'm.

[Anna Kai]

Most people are not intentionally anti Semitic or racist. I think, you know, some not.

[Nicole Richie]

But yeah, I was like, I can't I think I'd be a little more comfortable if I could be where I don't. I could avoid that. And maybe. And I also didn't grow up really around that many, so I wanted to kind of feel like that. And it's. And I am very, like, I am very Jewish, even though I'm not religious. Like, look at me. Yeah, look at me.

[Harrison Forman]

Like, it's an identity.

[Nicole Richie]

With a blonde family in Connecticut. I'm not really going to fit in, so I'd rather go to, like, Jersey or Long Island. You know, I'll feel a little more. That's more of what it was. But I'll date him and me, we never care. We would never care.

[Anna Kai]

It was just about somebody who understood you culturally. Yeah, that's exactly your now girlfriend. Which we'll get into because I got a rag on you for a sec. Oh, my God. Well, no, we're in our 30s and you took three months to make a move.

[Harrison Forman]

No. She told you about that?

[Anna Kai]

Oh, I. No, she didn't have to.

[Nicole Richie]

We were.

[Harrison Forman]

I was so. I thought my girl. I thought she was so out of my league. And we became friends, and I was. I mean, I would talk to him like, there's something.

[Anna Kai]

Wait, sorry, let me go back.

[Harrison Forman]

Hold on.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah.

[Harrison Forman]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

So Marin Haugo is your new girlfriend, but not so new to the point that, like, you know, you just met her, and I know this story, but basically. And I know Marin outside of. You know, I think I met her before you did. But you basically tried to recruit her for your show for out dating. I know you were like, oh, she's single and she talks about dating. And she was like, mm, no, but I'm gonna recruit you for my podcast instead.

[Harrison Forman]

Exact. I saw her on TikTok. I DMed her and said, hey, do you want to come on update? And she said, absolutely not. I would never do that. And then we FaceTimed for an hour, and she's like, come on. The podcast. Came on the podcast. And, yeah, we became friends for a few months, and there was this tension. Like, we would both send mixed signals. She set me up with her girlfriends to go out with. She told you about that? Yeah. Which is. I'd be on these dates. I'm like, this is so insane. I'd rather be hanging out with Marin right now. It was this whole saga, but New Year's Eve, because I have to be as cheesy as possible. So New Year's Eve made the move.

[Anna Kai]

But it wasn't on midnight at least.

[Harrison Forman]

Well, at midnight, I Was so my heart dropped at midnight because I thought she was. She, like, turned away, and I was like, oh, it's not gonna happen. And I thought we were gonna kiss at midnight. I was so devastated. My friend saw me. I was so upset. I was about to call him, like, crying. And then five minutes later, we kissed. And it was just. And now, yeah, we're dating. She's not Jewish, but she said she'd convert. Hopefully we'll hold her to that. You know, I had her sign it in writing. You know, before you started dating on.

[Anna Kai]

Jews, is it actually that hard to convert to Judaism?

[Harrison Forman]

That's a good question. I don't think it's that.

[Anna Kai]

He just didn't want me to convert. My ex was like, don't do it. It's too hard. You'll never know. I'm joking.

[Harrison Forman]

I think you take a class for a few months, and then you have to get the rabbis permission. But apparently the rabbis say that if you convert, your soul was always Jewish in a prior life. Life, which I thought was interesting.

[Nicole Richie]

Oh, that's really interesting.

[Anna Kai]

My soul feels Jewish. I always say, like, you have a Jewish.

[Harrison Forman]

Where are you from?

[Anna Kai]

I am from outside. I'm from outside of Philly. I'm from Malvern.

[Harrison Forman]

Oh, Malvern.

[Nicole Richie]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

Where you're from South Jersey, which is basically Philly. I would say North Jersey is New York, Central Jersey is real Jersey, and South Jersey is Philly.

[Harrison Forman]

South Jersey.

[Anna Kai]

Is Philly going to the Jersey Shore?

[Harrison Forman]

Of course. Market. Atlantic City.

[Anna Kai]

Seattle.

[Harrison Forman]

Different. Yes. Oh, you meant to Seattle.

[Anna Kai]

Yes, it's true. I have a special place in my heart for Seattle. We actually went back two years ago for my girlfriend's Bachelorette as kind of like a throwback. And I was like, oh, my God, this is insane.

[Harrison Forman]

From Philly. Philly people have Philly and Long island people are similar.

[Nicole Richie]

I was actually saying to Anna when we walked in, she was asking about, like, a car show on Long Island. I'm like, look, crowds, they're kind of tough there. It's similar to Philly. They're kind of. They're stupid. Like, they don't always get jokes. Philly. I don't know how other comedians feel. I don't think Philly. Philly is an easy city to perform. And I don't think all the way out east on Long island, you're going to get the most receptive crowds. That's why I, like. I'm from Long Island. Love Long Island. I love Philly. Don't like performing there, but they are similar places and gritty city Blue collar.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. You know, it's the hustle culture. Which is why I don't love la. Like, I was just out there. That's the original. I do not like LA either. The last time I was in la was in 2011. I was doing an internship there.

[Harrison Forman]

Wait, that was the last time you were in la?

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. And I went, wow.

[Harrison Forman]

Even doing what you do, you've been able to avoid that.

[Anna Kai]

I always told myself, I'm not gonna go back unless I have a job to go back for. And I had a job to go back for. And it actually wasn't even la. It was in the oc, Which I didn't realize was like a totally different place. Cause that's how, like, not geographically with it, I am with West Coast. But I went in 2011 and I lived there for three months and I was like, this is just not the place for me. There's just like a grind in New York that I just felt like was missing in la.

[Harrison Forman]

Totally.

[Anna Kai]

It's also really tough. Tough place to fail in. In the entertainment industry, actually. I would say if you're not in the entertainment industry, go to LA and like, pick a neighborhood you love and stay there. But if you are and you're not there yet, it's so tough because everyone is trying to make it lonely.

[Harrison Forman]

Dark place. It's a dark place. Not the friendliest people too.

[Nicole Richie]

No.

[Anna Kai]

No.

[Harrison Forman]

People that are not well.

[Anna Kai]

Everyone's trying to figure out if you can do something for them.

[Harrison Forman]

Right.

[Nicole Richie]

Everywhere you go, the Uber driver, it's. They want to. And him and me, and especially when we started an update, we. I have a friend that started a cleaning company. We got a friend in finance, a guy at amex. It's. I'm like, I love this. I want to be around people. I want to be around someone that owns a restaurant. All this there, it's so singular. And even people that don't work in entertainment. I'm not saying everywhere too. Right. We're talking more just from like a. Like, if you're talking about an overall. There are great parts of California, there's great people. But I love how New York, everyone's doing something different. It's not about attention, entertainment everywhere.

[Harrison Forman]

It's better for comedy, for humor. Right. Like the Uber driver in New York who would never get into comedy or anything, is funnier than the Uber driver in LA who's doing standup, you know? Yeah. Like the random guy here is going to make.

[Anna Kai]

He's going to be more life.

[Harrison Forman]

Right.

[Anna Kai]

And he has more life.

[Harrison Forman]

Exactly. He's just going to keep it real and make you laugh.

[Nicole Richie]

I love New York. I think people are so funny and we see it with casting on our show, you get these charismatic, emotional.

[Harrison Forman]

Louisiana is the hardest place to cast update. So which people are mind blown when they hear that?

[Anna Kai]

Because I'm actually.

[Harrison Forman]

It's just people who our audience can see through on a. You know, people who are inauthentic. Right, right. And LA is known.

[Nicole Richie]

It's tough. We strong and look, LA also does. Is a tough play. And again, I think I'm assuming other comedians for the most part feel this way. It's a hard, it's hard audiences there, like, because a lot of people that like, and especially when you go to venues there, they want to be doing that. So it's like a weird vibe walking in. I'm like, you do a show in Nashville, like this comedy club Zanies or Denver, everyone is so happy the way everyone's so excited to be there. Everyone's happy with what they do. LA is a place where like everyone just isn't. They're not.

[Anna Kai]

Well, everyone's trying to do what you're doing. And so I said to myself, I was like, I'm not moving to LA because I'm going to be around a bunch of people who are doing what I want to be doing. I don't want to be resentful of that. Like, I'm just going to go try. And I was like, look, if I'm going to fail, I'd rather fail in New York City than fail in la.

[Harrison Forman]

Love that.

[Anna Kai]

I'm an east coast person. Like my family's close by, I'm really close with my family. I was like, it was not a thing. So I went back literally a couple weeks ago. That's why I had to reschedule this because I got just like a random call and they were like, oh, we want you on a brand trip out in the oc And I was like, I'll just wrap it into an elevator.

[Harrison Forman]

Oh, this just happened this other year.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah, this was just a month ago and I hadn't been back in 13 years. And it was so wild because I went, I rented a room off of a guy from Craigslist, which I don't know why my parents let me do this. I would Never let my 21 year old daughter do this. I rented a room from a guy off of Craigslist who was 32, who was just renting out a spare bedroom in West Hollywood. He was from like, I feel like Arkansas royalty. He had money somewhere. He would hang out at this club and he was friends with the GM and he was friends with a lot of porn stars.

[Harrison Forman]

Wow.

[Anna Kai]

And they would all come back to our apartment after the club because it was the after party and it was the first time I had like really just been exposed to LA culture and it was actually really fun for a summer because I knew I was leaving.

[Nicole Richie]

Small doses going out.

[Harrison Forman]

No, very small doses. You can have a good time.

[Nicole Richie]

Oh, we've had fun.

[Harrison Forman]

Yeah, we've had.

[Nicole Richie]

No, we're also. We've had a lot of fun in la. Like, I don't want to say that.

[Anna Kai]

To know that I'm leaving la. You know, I love a return ticket.

[Harrison Forman]

Can't buy a one way ticket there. You know, you'll be doomed.

[Nicole Richie]

I don't know anyone. It's worked out for like, I guess that's the level we're at. Like, we don't really talk to people. That's working out for. So like. But yeah, like, you know, we're not friends with like, you know, Timothy Chamalay.

[Harrison Forman]

But who was in New York anyway when he broke out.

[Nicole Richie]

Yeah, yeah. I just like. And also we and Harrison and me, we've been doing this a while. We fail a lot. And failing in New York's fine. Like he just won't go for a walk. And you're gonna feel good. You walk in the air out there. You feel like it's like it's scary. La, scary at night. Like, I don't like walking around there at night.

[Anna Kai]

No one's on the streets walking.

[Nicole Richie]

No, it's dark. You're like, yo, we just had the worst show ever. You know, what could I, like, I'm walking into dark place. Like this guy over there is like. Like, come watch my. My live like, like magic show on Hollywood here.

[Harrison Forman]

They talk too slow out there too. I don't even know what they're saying. They're like, oh my. Yo, what's up?

[Anna Kai]

The cadence is very different.

[Harrison Forman]

What are you saying? I get to the point or coffee tastes? Getting Starbucks is why I would never leave New York. Like it. It's quick here.

[Nicole Richie]

One second.

[Harrison Forman]

Any other city in the country, it takes an hour to get any Simple.

[Nicole Richie]

We've seen it all, We've gone everywhere. There is just nothing like New York. Nothing's close. You got to wait for something Everywhere.

[Harrison Forman]

Service is terrible in la.

[Nicole Richie]

It's like, it is true. Everyone wants like, you'll. We'll do a show and a guy will come up. Yo, I run this company I got this great idea for you. What if we did, like, an updating board game? I'm like, dude, I think we're going to pass on that right now. But no, like, I'm telling you, bro, I'm working with, like, what's the name these people out there always use? Like, what's, like, the hot. What's the hot name that everyone says they know?

[Harrison Forman]

They're always using, like, celebrity or something.

[Nicole Richie]

Like, yo, I worked with Alex Cooper. I'm like, cool, bro.

[Harrison Forman]

I work with Anna Faris.

[Nicole Richie]

John, everyone. Okay. Everyone. Always. Everyone knows John stuff. I will.

[Anna Kai]

We've.

[Harrison Forman]

We've run into, like, dozens of creators, and that's their only, like, celebrity friend.

[Nicole Richie]

They're like, yo, I could introduce you to John Stamos, dude. Like, I'm like, bro, like, I don't know what to do. Like, yo, link with us. Like, we know John Stamos. Like, it's the. It's the most with us. It's insane. You know, that's what happens out there. Like, because I'll. I'll also fuck with people. I'll be like, yo, like. Like, I will have combos after a show out there. Like, yo, I want to meet a celebrity so badly for our show.

[Harrison Forman]

Yeah.

[Nicole Richie]

Like, who do you know? And they're like, yo, I know John Stamos.

[Anna Kai]

Everyone knows. First of all, I live in Connecticut right now. I know no one. You know, when people like, who do you know? I'm like, no one. It's just. It's just kind of nice, though.

[Nicole Richie]

I love that.

[Anna Kai]

It is great. But, you know, it's like, I like having an escape from this life I live. I love what I do, but I don't want to be what I do. And I think that's what I love about you guys is I was watching your stuff, and I was like, these guys don't take themselves that serious. Like, with the dating thing, it's guys who flex. It's the thing. Like, oh, I know John Stamos. Like, I used to hate going on dates with guys who are like, oh, you know, like, I'm an investor in this bar and blah, blah, blah. It's kind of the same idea. It's like, you know, what if you take what you do seriously and you're actually doing something, you don't have to talk about doing something.

[Nicole Richie]

I feel that a lot in my personal life, too. When I was younger, I felt I always was, like, trying to be on and funny. Now that I have it somewhere channeled, you hang out with me, you're probably gonna be pretty bored. Like my girlfriend. Like, I'm not. I'm not. Like, we hang out. It's not funny. Like, I don't like. It's nice. I love.

[Anna Kai]

I like, like, but it's real.

[Nicole Richie]

Yeah, it's real. It's real. It's a. But I like. We like normal Harrison and me when we travel, too. We just do normal stuff. We're not looking at, like. Like, you know, like, there's no alternative.

[Harrison Forman]

There's no Heidi Tighty. Like, yeah.

[Anna Kai]

You're not, like, going out and you're not like, buying people.

[Harrison Forman]

We'd rather be with our fans than John Stamos.

[Nicole Richie]

We hang out with our fans.

[Harrison Forman]

Honestly, like, we'd much rather chill with them.

[Nicole Richie]

We do after parties whenever we can at a show.

[Anna Kai]

That's awesome.

[Harrison Forman]

Yeah.

[Nicole Richie]

Everywhere.

[Anna Kai]

I gotta come to one of your shows.

[Harrison Forman]

Welcome anytime.

[Nicole Richie]

Our legendary. I've been to at least one of them. They are.

[Anna Kai]

Okay. I need to.

[Harrison Forman]

I think you went for the number two, actually.

[Nicole Richie]

For sure.

[Harrison Forman]

Yeah. There you go.

[Nicole Richie]

No, it's awesome. And for dudes, particularly, it's awesome. There's a lot of things.

[Harrison Forman]

Oh, my God. A lot of hookups happen.

[Nicole Richie]

A lot of hookups. And a mar. And there is a. I. There is a marriage coming. My girlfriend's sister knows someone that met a guy on our show. She actually went up to him after our show at an after party. I don't know if they're engaged yet, but they're going to be engaged.

[Anna Kai]

Wait, that's the first marriage to come out of Update.

[Nicole Richie]

It'll be the third.

[Anna Kai]

Oh, the third. Because you guys don't. I love your show, but you don't have a great track.

[Nicole Richie]

If you think. We've done like 500 shows. Three marriage. It actually is a lot of your belt. One.

[Anna Kai]

And it's my own. So you know what? I'm good with that. As long as that's the only marriage I'm responsible for and it works. But wait, so is that. Is that a good percentage rate for the.

[Harrison Forman]

For the casting part, for the people on stage? It's very high. These are first dates. I mean, 99% of first dates lead to nothing. So that's higher than 90. That's higher than 1%.

[Anna Kai]

That's true.

[Nicole Richie]

Think about it for, like, getting. Like, think about what you're shooting for. Shooting for a light. Someone suspend a whole life. But also a lot of people forget about the cast. We create an environment. And like every city we go to when. I'm not joking, we hang out with everyone that comes after we do whatever. There's people that do meet at our after parties and sort of around because there's also an atmosphere. You watch a disaster on our show. You're going to feel good after. You're going to be like, I'm not that guy or girl.

[Anna Kai]

The commonality people have, like, it's why people talk about the weather. Like, you know the psychology behind people always like, oh my gosh, like, why are people always like talking about the weather? Well, it's because when you meet somebody, like, we're both under the same weather. So you're trying to relate to somebody. And that's what it is. What you guys offer is a way for people to relate. And I think a lot of it. Have you ever done a study on what percentage of your audience is single versus married? Because a lot of married couples do.

[Harrison Forman]

Married couples. I would say at this point it's probably 50.

[Nicole Richie]

50.

[Harrison Forman]

It's gotta be 50, 50 couple. And we've been talking more about couples. They love the show. And I've heard stories from like fans who are girls and they're like, I walked into the living room, my husband was watching a dating show. I was like, what is going on right now? This is the craziest thing. And now they bond over it every week. Even last night, a guy came up to me after the show and said, your show. Watch him weekly. Built my relationship.

[Nicole Richie]

I got the same remark.

[Harrison Forman]

It's so crazy.

[Anna Kai]

There we go.

[Nicole Richie]

I was out to dinner the other night, a woman next to me. You know, once a year someone will be like, I'm a fan. No.

[Harrison Forman]

And she was like, happens.

[Nicole Richie]

No, it, it happens. She's like, my husband and me, we bond over this every week. It's like the best part of our. It's like we look forward to this every Monday. It's like our, our bonding thing. Because I also think couples realize like if you're. And this isn't even a joke.

[Brandon Berman]

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[Nicole Richie]

You will watch an episode and either go I'm so happy I don't have to do that or I actually do vibe with this person.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. Or it's like I wish I always think the couples who watch your show and like oh, I wish I could go on it. That's a problem. Right?

[Harrison Forman]

That's interesting.

[Nicole Richie]

I gotta listen to that. Now when someone says that because that.

[Harrison Forman]

Is when couples say I wish I did, I wish I could go on.

[Anna Kai]

The show, that's a red flag if.

[Harrison Forman]

They'Re saying that they're yearning.

[Anna Kai]

Well, I have a couple friends who have been with their significant others, whether they're married or whatever, for a very long time. And like, in our early 30s, this is when you start to see, like, the relationships crack back to your point. It's like, you shouldn't meet somebody too young because you don't know what you want. And so I have some friends going through divorces right now, and people who are saying to me, you know, that I wish I could be single or, you know, I. Because I remember feeling like this when I was with the wrong guy. I was like, I would bet I would be happier single and not be with anybody than be with this guy. And that's how, you know. And it's actually after I broke up with him and after I kind of recovered, I was like, oh, I actually don't want to be single and alone for the rest of my life. I just didn't want to be with him. So the alternative of being alone for the rest of my life was more appealing feeling.

[Harrison Forman]

Yeah, totally. Yeah, totally.

[Anna Kai]

For somebody to. In a relationship to want to expose themselves on your show like that, that.

[Harrison Forman]

Means that's a little funky. Couples therapy on the way. That is interesting.

[Nicole Richie]

And I always say track that. No. And I always say these couples, these people that, like, are like, I've been with this person forever. Like, I'm. I'm bored. I go, yo, bored is healthy. Being bored is actually like a. When I'm bored, I know I'm in a good place, right? I like, in life in general, Like, I like nothing. I want to do nothing. I want to sit.

[Anna Kai]

You are speaking to my soul. I am like, this is how you.

[Harrison Forman]

Got to teach me. Because I'm still newer in a relationship.

[Anna Kai]

I know you. Okay?

[Nicole Richie]

I love just hanging out with Mal. I love just doing nothing with her.

[Anna Kai]

Fucking nothing. People are like, what? I'm like, I live such a boring life. You know what? I bond with my husband over.

[Brandon Berman]

First of all.

[Anna Kai]

Now update. But before that, Dateline murder shows, we really.

[Nicole Richie]

Dude, I'm a crime junkie.

[Anna Kai]

Oh, my God. Yes. 2020 Dateline all day, every day.

[Nicole Richie]

Murder.

[Anna Kai]

Lester Holt and Keith Morrison. Get at me. Do you watch True crime with Marin?

[Harrison Forman]

No, we don't watch True crime. We watch movies. Rom coms.

[Anna Kai]

Oh, okay.

[Harrison Forman]

Watch rom coms. Yeah, you need that.

[Anna Kai]

You need to have something. But true Crime, you know what? It's a similar thing to your show is that when I watch True crime, I'm like, my problems are not that bad. I didn't murder anybody, and I'm not murdered.

[Nicole Richie]

Can I tell you something? This is fucked. And people, when I say this, they're always like, this is crazy. I love. So I have obviously like, I'm in an apartment. There's only one door in. And I don't want watches like everywhere, like in hotels or in my. If I'm home, obviously there's multiple entrances into like my parents house. It's like a house on Long Island. I go on YouTube and type in like home invasions, like 911 calls. Like really crazy shit because it's so comfortable. Like you're alone. I'm like, I'm not dealing. I'm not in this right now. Like. And I could just feel this. Like I get a weird comfort from it. It's like very. It's like a outer. I can't explain the experience. It's just so.

[Harrison Forman]

Well, it's escapism, right? It's escapism, you know, and you need that thing to. To escape. You need that.

[Nicole Richie]

My escape is like. Yeah, it's like. Like, like 91 1. Like I'm being rot. Like, you know, but like.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. Or just. I love a classic. I actually. I don't like. I'm very picky about my murders. I don't like murders about children. Something about that really like, does not sit well with me. So I don't like watching stuff about kids getting murdered.

[Harrison Forman]

That's tough.

[Anna Kai]

But I love a good husband kills wife. Wife kills husband.

[Nicole Richie]

So interesting.

[Anna Kai]

I think that's interesting because like, it's like. Did you watch the Chris Watts saga unfold?

[Harrison Forman]

Not at all. I'm not as much of.

[Anna Kai]

Okay, I'm sure you heard of it. This was a few years ago before the pandemic. But this man killed his wife and two daughters. They were like 8 and 10. Because he was having an affair. And he thought this would be easier than getting a divorce. He killed them, all three of them and put them into an oil barrel at his. He worked for an oil company that is I think Anna Darko or something in Colorado and feigned that he was like the distraught husband for like two days. And then they were like, dude, you did this? And he was like, yeah, I did.

[Nicole Richie]

Isn't that so interesting?

[Harrison Forman]

Did he. Death penalty.

[Anna Kai]

I don't think Colorado has the death penalty, but he's away for life. But it's.

[Nicole Richie]

It's interesting always watching because you're like, what you're. You're watching. You're like, what meant what like is in that. It's so fascinating that someone could think that people. That a human can live such a different Experience like that's what's interesting about true crime because it is the most extreme different life experience beyond a famous person. Like a Brad Pitt, who everywhere he walks, it's like he has a different life experience. Someone that could kill and.

[Harrison Forman]

No, you're right.

[Nicole Richie]

That is such an extreme difference between a normal person like myself who's like, you know, afraid of everything. So it's always just fun. It's fun to explore that. That's what. I should explain it to you.

[Harrison Forman]

That's a good way of looking. I'm also afraid of everything. It's so outside your day to day. It's the furthest pot. But between Brad Pitt and a murderer, they could not be further from the normal man's life. The normal person's life. Right. So.

[Anna Kai]

But that's not appreciated because when I watch it, I'm like. I just like being boring. And I like hanging out with people who live boring lives in their personal lives but are trying to do something in their, like, professional lives. Like, I like doers.

[Harrison Forman]

Such a good.

[Anna Kai]

You know, And I'm not a big vacation person. Not because I'm a workaholic, but because I don't like going away and just like taking a break for like two weeks.

[Harrison Forman]

And every day should be like. With Marin. Every day feels like a vacation. You know, Monday morning, it feels. It really does, you know, and that's how you know you're. It's. It's right.

[Anna Kai]

So how long have you been together now? Officially?

[Harrison Forman]

Six months, I think.

[Nicole Richie]

Yes. It will feel like a vacation for another six.

[Anna Kai]

Give it another six. No, no, it's.

[Harrison Forman]

No, but like similar to you guys, like, can you just do nothing and hang? And we have a, you know, a dog. I'm a stepfather to a dog. And it's been nice, you know, family.

[Anna Kai]

Are you really a stepfather if you're the only father? I'm the father.

[Harrison Forman]

I'm the father.

[Anna Kai]

Maury's car. Do you remember that? You are the father.

[Harrison Forman]

I'm the father.

[Nicole Richie]

You have a dog.

[Harrison Forman]

Just like that seven months ago, you know, single. And now I have a family. It's funny you got to get a dog.

[Nicole Richie]

Cuz I'm alone during the day when we're home and I get. I get little sad sometimes. It's nice that I want to die. I'm a cat guy. Like I'm actually leaving. No, I'm leaving. No, no.

[Anna Kai]

I have a. I have a golden retriever.

[Nicole Richie]

Wow.

[Anna Kai]

Connecticut. I love that. Love do. I'm allergic to cats, so I can't do I can't do cats.

[Nicole Richie]

I love them and I love. I'll tell you what I love about a cat. And I'm actually gonna go. Going after this to go watch my parents her way. I'm gonna go watch my cat. I'm gonna hang out with them. I'm gonna walk in. This is why I love a cat or not my cat, because he does come up to you. Cats, you have a tough day, you walk in, they look at you, they walk the other way. They don't give a. They're arrogant. They're. They're so cocky and they're. I love the humor of a cat. It just like, you think because I'm cute, I'm gonna, like, come up to you. A dog, it jumps on you. And I love. I'm an animal lover all around, but I love the. The psyche of a cat. I just. I've always. My. My whole family. I love it. They're so funny. Cats.

[Anna Kai]

That's.

[Harrison Forman]

I think you should get some for the dog or cat for the house. It's nice having a third energy in the room. That's what Martin and I always say. Like, it's nice having. There's a third random energy just floating around like this creature. She's the first person to ever call a dog a creature. It's just a little creature running around, which is fun. Yeah, it's a creature.

[Nicole Richie]

And you're sweet.

[Brandon Berman]

It's great.

[Anna Kai]

It's a starter kid. If you guys can take care of a dog, you can probably have a kid one day. It's probably gonna be. I know I'm jumping ahead of the gun here, but I'm curious. When you were going through that, like, three months, sort of back and forth, is, were you, like, what were your thoughts? Did you tell him, hey, like, you should probably just ask her out, or were you like, I'm just not a part of this.

[Nicole Richie]

I don't. I. I'm always. My attitude with anyone with dating and stuff. I actually don't give unsolicited thoughts or advice. If someone asks me and I don't know how Harrison dates, I kind of just like, let him do his thing. If he asked me, I'll give my advice. I did. My. So my girlfriend Mel, she. She's very. I mean, I. Anything she does say, for the most part, like, it does either happen or she. Right. She met Marin, I guess, maybe August or whatever. And right away, I think right after she's like him and she's like, her and Harrison are. Are perfect. I go, really?

[Anna Kai]

I Go like, I. Dude.

[Nicole Richie]

Like, she's like, that's the perfect. I'm like, all right. And that was kind of like the first stint of, like. And then Marin then maybe came to another show or something, and Mel was like, yeah, they. They should date. And then I think I maybe did say to Harrison, like, you ever think, like, you and Mar. And he's like, we're. I think we're friends. Because Harrison doesn't, like. He doesn't want to get in the. Like, he's not looking to be, like, the weird guy that's trying to have an alternative. Like. An alternative?

[Harrison Forman]

Yeah. Like, she was a friend, you know?

[Anna Kai]

Yeah, I'm gonna. You know, I was ragging on you. And I do think it's funny because, like, I was, like, telling Marin. I feel like the way your relationship started is how, like. And high school relationships start, because you know how in college, you have, like, the guys, the groups of friends, right? And, like, everyone's sort of got crushes and whatever. And it was when I was watching your interview with her after the second one, you, like, talked about having a crush on one another. I was like, I have not heard that term in silo, because we're in our 30s. I was like, it's, like, such a good point. Most of the time now, like, as a straight woman, you know, before I met my husband, if I'm going out with a straight man, the intentions are clear. There's no misfit. We're trying to figure out if we like each other enough to, like, be together. But I think what's tough is you guys met under work circumstances. And that's why I always say to my husband, I'm like, I'm so glad that by the time all the social media stuff happened to me, we were together, because it would be tough to kind of. I'm sure you were kind of like, hey, I'm not trying to like, shit where I eat. Like, she's sort of, like, in my space, and. I don't want to be kidding.

[Harrison Forman]

Church and state kind of thing.

[Anna Kai]

Exactly. You just fucked all that up, though.

[Harrison Forman]

I know. I know. It was a rig because if I went for the kid, you know, and she wasn't down, I. I would have lost a friend. I was going to this Tokyo thing with her, and we booked it as friends, and it was a bit of fun.

[Anna Kai]

And you were going to stay in separate hotel rooms, and we had.

[Harrison Forman]

We booked different seats on the plane.

[Nicole Richie]

To Tokyo, and they didn't know, so they barely knew each other. They booked A trip to Tokyo, you are saying? Well, I said to him actually, so now to revert back to that. I said to him right before this, this was maybe an unsolicited thing. I was like, dude, like, look, this Tokyo trip, this is do or die. Either you're going to end up marrying or you'll never see nothing's there. Dude. Like, just accept it. And he's like, I know. Like, I'm going to go into this. Like, the whole thing was such an extreme first date.

[Harrison Forman]

I mean.

[Nicole Richie]

I mean, you went on a second date to Tokyo. Technically, they didn't know each other.

[Harrison Forman]

Insane. So I was just in a yolo kind of. I just didn't care. And I was shocked. And she is similar, honestly, Marin, like, she. She just goes with it. Spontaneous person. I will worked out. And you approve? Anna approved.

[Nicole Richie]

I'm just like Harrison with that. I'm extremely. I met. I told my girlfriend I was in love with her two weeks into our relationship. And she was like, what the hell?

[Anna Kai]

Wait, can we go back? Hold on. First, I want to wrap up this Marin conversation off of that. Because you guys started off as friends first. Do you guys think straight men and women can be friends? Truly friends?

[Harrison Forman]

Yeah, I do. I really do. I mean, this was the first time I had ever developed a crush for. For a straight, you know, girlfriend, for a friend who's a girl. In the past, I always separated the two. Like, I have girls I was friends with, girls I hooked. I think the short answer is yes, I agree. The guys who can't be friends with girls lose it. Like creepy. That's weird. I mean, you need to be able to separate the two, I think.

[Anna Kai]

But. So do you guys have platonic female friends that at one point you've. You've never thought about dating them?

[Harrison Forman]

Yeah, I have a. Not many, but probably four or five. And just their homies and they've always been friends, you know, well. And it's worked out.

[Nicole Richie]

Yeah. And I have the answer. Look the same at the end of the day. Yes, but at the same thing. When you're a fuck, you're a student in high school. Even I have a teacher that's not attractive. I'm like, wow, she fucks. Like, I know. Everyone I know has sex. So yes. Like, I do know. So with the same thing. Like, dude, I look at my parents and I was like, wow, these people fuck each other. Like, I do have sexual thoughts about.

[Harrison Forman]

Sexual thoughts about your parents?

[Nicole Richie]

No. Well, that kind of. But yes, I.

[Anna Kai]

You've been watching a lot of porn.

[Nicole Richie]

But I could be friends with girls and not want to. But I still sometimes, like, wow, it's weird. Like, this person has sex with people. Like, there is the. But, yeah.

[Harrison Forman]

No, I do. I do. I do get that. Like, when. Yeah, you're right. Someone is doing.

[Nicole Richie]

It's bizarre knowing they. Like, I don't have any of that type of combo relationship. But, like, I'm like, wow, this person.

[Anna Kai]

Like, you are sexual just by being a person.

[Nicole Richie]

We're animal. Yeah, it's like an animalism. But to answer his question now, you could totally be friends with girls, guys, whatever, not have a. We've had a lot. I have a lot of friends that are. There's absolutely no sexual thought. Like, you know.

[Anna Kai]

You know, it's funny. I, like, sort of disagree, but I love that you guys. I feel like I'm on the opposite side. Like, I don't have any male friends outside of people I meet from work now that are straight, that I, like, relate to. It's like a relatability thing for me. I'm like a girl's girl, so. And in the past, when I've had male friends in college, it's never really worked out because you get drunk at a party and you find out they've been trying to hook up with you this whole time, and then it just ruins it. Like, what you said. It would have ruined your friendship with Marin if she wasn't into it, if.

[Harrison Forman]

She wasn't down, you know, and if.

[Anna Kai]

I'm truly just friends with somebody. But I will say, sometimes it works out because that guy I was in love with in college, the Jewish guy who I would have converted for, I literally said to my best girlfriend when I first met him, I knew him for, like, two years. We were, like, friends. When I first met him, I was like, this guy is so disgusting. I never want to. I was so annoyed by him.

[Harrison Forman]

Personality or physically?

[Anna Kai]

Personality. And because of the personality, I was, like, really unattracted to him physically, too. And then he just, like, worked on me for, like, two years.

[Harrison Forman]

That's fun.

[Anna Kai]

And I was like. And then one time, we, like, were just, like, you know, hanging out in his apartment that he shared with, like, two other guys. And we, like, kissed. And that's why I was like. When your relationship with Marin started off like that, I was like, this is reminiscent of the shit I used to do in college. And I was like, oh, I am really attracted to you. And so that's why I was like, oh, I am so attracted to you as a person now, because we're friends. It's based off of that friendship.

[Harrison Forman]

I love that. Well, you are already approved the person. Right. When you date a friend. I already had. She already had my stamp of approval to be around as a human.

[Anna Kai]

Right, Right.

[Harrison Forman]

So there wasn't. When you go on a dating app, first date, you're putting the pressure, like, I gotta prove this person. I gotta prove them romantically, physically. There's so much like. So the friend to lover thing.

[Nicole Richie]

Look, and my answer to that. Yes, I have girl.

[Harrison Forman]

No.

[Nicole Richie]

No girl ever asked, like, no girlfriend when I was single ever asked me to fuck. So it didn't really, like, if they had. So the answer.

[Anna Kai]

No option.

[Nicole Richie]

Yeah, like for the most part, like. Like if someone asked, I'd be like, oh, like, you sure? Like, you know, but the option was never presented.

[Anna Kai]

So, you know, like, so maybe the answer would have been yes, but you knew not to cross that line. I think that's good. And I think it's funny. I call a lot of, like, douchey men chads in my videos. It's just like a blanket term that I use for, like, my exes and men that. So people. A lot of my trolls are like, oh, you must hate men. I don't. And like, people are like, you must have daddy issues. I don't. I have a great dad. He's great to my mom. I have a great husband. But like, I was always so shocked when I was dating in New York, how shitty some men could be. Just as like. I'm sure a lot of women can be shitty too in New York.

[Harrison Forman]

It's brutal. Both sides.

[Nicole Richie]

I know both sides are.

[Harrison Forman]

Chris is not. And he's seen. It's a war zone.

[Nicole Richie]

No, it's legit. I cried after some dates here. Like, girls, like, I've been out with some meat.

[Anna Kai]

I love that you're willing to admit that. Because I always felt like a lot of the men I was dating were, like, not willing to be open. And I know vulnerability is such a buzzword and so overused, but, like, dudes are just not taught to be open. Right? So totally.

[Nicole Richie]

Yeah, this dude was. My dad, unfortunately, taught me to be very open.

[Harrison Forman]

That's why Jewish guys are more. We are pretty emotional, right. Because we're too close with our mothers. And that creates this vulnerability thing, you know, it's the origin of the Jewish guy crying.

[Nicole Richie]

Okay, that is true. You also have a sister and I have two sisters, only girl. So it's a little different. I had to hang.

[Anna Kai]

Probably why you guys relate to motion. Platonic Level too.

[Harrison Forman]

It's a good point.

[Nicole Richie]

Like, we'd be told if I had two brothers, I wouldn't be me.

[Harrison Forman]

Oh, my.

[Nicole Richie]

You wouldn't be you.

[Harrison Forman]

I would have hated having brothers. Would have hated. I never wanted a brother once in my life. Like, that would have been miserable. Just no interest.

[Anna Kai]

So interesting.

[Harrison Forman]

Do you ever want a brother?

[Nicole Richie]

Never. And like, we had a show recently where like, the twin was. Brothers are weird.

[Anna Kai]

Brothers are like brothers.

[Nicole Richie]

It's a better type. You pick it. No, we had a show recently, like, there were twins and they had. I'm like, bro, like, who is the bigger dick? Like, imagine your twin bro. And the one was like, I have. I'm bigger than him. Like, imagine having brothers and like, you're fighting over, like, your.

[Anna Kai]

Imagine having a twin brother who's better looking than you. Like a better looking version of you sucks.

[Harrison Forman]

I would have be depressed your whole life. You're gonna have serious identity. You're gonna need therapy at a young age.

[Nicole Richie]

I hate that. And my sisters, none of them want to do what I do. They don't. I don't want to do it.

[Harrison Forman]

So cool.

[Nicole Richie]

And I love it. There's no competition. Like, it's just love and nothing. There's no.

[Anna Kai]

Everyone's just so supportive.

[Nicole Richie]

I hate competition. That's why Harrison and me also created our own lane. Like the stand up scene here. We're like, we don't want to compete. We're just gonna go into our own thing. We don't want to compete.

[Harrison Forman]

I love it. And not to bring pop culture into this, but there's got to be something behind the scenes with Travis and Jason. Kelsey, you can't be two brothers doing the same exact football. Now they're doing media. There's got to be something behind. It's too much. It's a little much there.

[Anna Kai]

I don't know.

[Nicole Richie]

And if with kids, by the way, actually, you know, if I have kids, I want them all to all do different stuff. Don't compete with it. The key is don't these competitive families, like, with like, yo, this son here. Like, this fucking kid's going to siblings.

[Anna Kai]

I don't.

[Harrison Forman]

You're an only child.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah, and I was an accident. I'm super close.

[Harrison Forman]

We're glad you're here.

[Anna Kai]

Thank you.

[Nicole Richie]

We're glad you made it through.

[Anna Kai]

We're. Yeah. I told. I tell my mom all the time. I was like, why the hell did you keep me. You were 27, moving to the U.S. you didn't speak the language, you had no money, and you were Pregnant, I would have aborted me. Like, try again later when you're.

[Harrison Forman]

They weren't married. They were married.

[Anna Kai]

They were married, but they were coming here and they had nothing. I mean, like, absurd. So I don't have siblings, and I never wanted siblings. So I don't know what that.

[Harrison Forman]

Oh, wow.

[Anna Kai]

But I am, you know, because my husband and I talk about this all the time. We're like. We kick around the idea of just having one kid because we both are really into our careers, and it's tough, you know, when you bring kids into the equation. And he doesn't want to take a step back, and I don't want to take a step back. But we also don't want, like, our kid to just be raised by a nanny and other people.

[Harrison Forman]

Totally.

[Anna Kai]

And one kid is a lot more manageable. But then he's like, oh, only children are a little strange, right, Michael? And I can't just. No, I am strange.

[Brandon Berman]

I'm really.

[Anna Kai]

I'm really fucking weird. Like, I am really weird, and I am really. But, like, I keep it to myself. Like, I don't make it anybody else's problem. I think sometimes where the line is, is, like, other people, like, make it other people's problem. Right. Like, I know I'm really particular and I'm bizarre as all hell, but, you know, nobody else has to deal with it except my husband and my family. But he's like, only children are weird. Like, everybody that I know who's an only child is a little strange. And I was like, but, you know what? If they're happy, who cares? I mean, I think all of us in this business of whatever the hell we're doing, we're all a little strange whether or not we have siblings or not. Like, we all have a screw loose that just led us to be here.

[Harrison Forman]

Yeah, that's a good question.

[Nicole Richie]

You can't be normal.

[Harrison Forman]

There was a screw loose with the box. Like, we weren't closed by a box, you know?

[Nicole Richie]

Yeah, no, there's. You're. And, like, with what we do, especially comedy, like, sometimes I'm out there in an audience, audience isn't reacting. Like, it's not funny. I'm like, you have to be a delusional to want to make people laugh and put yourself through torture every night, every show we go into, it's like, we haven't done it before. We're freaking out. I'm like, there's something you can't be normal to want to do. You're just.

[Anna Kai]

You can't. It's Wild. Because it's so. It's comforting to hear you say, like, every show you go into and you freak out because I watch your stuff. I'm like, they're so good on stage. There's the crowd work. They're just so in the moment. I'm like, how do they do it? Like, oh, my God, I could never do that. But it's like, you just start over every time and, like, that's your M.O. in life. Just go with it right back to Maddie every day.

[Nicole Richie]

And it doesn't. And that's what I like about it, though. That's humbling. Like, there's no such thing as any. Like, every time we're like, yo, this is so hard. Like, I have, like, a panic attack before for no reason. A certain show before. Like, I'll look at him. We're. We're both, like, fucking freaking out because we're like, we have the worst daters here tonight. This is gonna be so hard. The crowd seems weird. A guy just walked in with, like, you know, a nose ring and purple hair.

[Harrison Forman]

And that's what's cool. Every show is so different. And even last night, the guy who was on the show, he was awesome for the show, but after he was visibly shook, he was from being on the show. And he texted me today. He's like, I have no idea how you guys do this every week. And he's like, I am still shaking. And he was incredible because he was so real on the show. But he was like, I have. You guys are crazy.

[Anna Kai]

People love how real it is because it's normal people. I actually watched the one episode you guys did with an influencer and a former, like, reality TV star. The audience.

[Nicole Richie]

I love.

[Harrison Forman]

You read the comments?

[Anna Kai]

Yeah, I read the comments, and they were like, oh, like, why did you guys do this? Like, are. You know. And I was like, oh, it's interesting because these are people that are very performative.

[Harrison Forman]

Correct.

[Nicole Richie]

Exactly.

[Anna Kai]

And I think that's the difference is that they know how to turn it on, but maybe not necessarily how to turn it off.

[Nicole Richie]

But here's the thing.

[Harrison Forman]

Exactly.

[Nicole Richie]

And I say this to Harrison all the time. Doesn't mean you could have literally, like, an. A superstar that comes on as normal. So it still doesn't matter what someone does. But if someone is. If you're a normal person and you go into an act and you're animated, you also suck. Just come on and be normal. Don't do your. No one wants. We're gonna do this. Like, we're gonna make you're here to be raw. This is the lion's den. We want this to be real. We're gonna do our thing.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah.

[Nicole Richie]

You know, so yeah, that was. Yeah. But you get normal people that also are like. We're like, yo, really just try.

[Harrison Forman]

Like these people who they open the show, they're like, my friends say I'm so funny. I'm like, no one who's funny would ever say it's the cringiest statement ever on. The audience immediately can't stand that person for saying that. It's horrible.

[Brandon Berman]

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[Anna Kai]

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[Harrison Forman]

Oh my God, right?

[Brandon Berman]

Exactly.

[Anna Kai]

I'd rather, I always want to like set the expectations low. No expectations. And then if something happens, great. And if it doesn't, I like didn't disappoint anybody. Right. Like, I don't go into something being like this is going to be. And I think that's a really interesting thing with like the current zeitgeist in the conversation around like confidence. Right? Everyone's like, you got like, you know, manifest it. You gotta say, like, I'm gonna win an Oscar one day. And I'm just like, I've never been like that.

[Nicole Richie]

Never.

[Anna Kai]

I've always been like, I am constantly just predicting failure and I'm shocked I'm here making a living from something I love to do. But it's like, you know, I think there is, there's probably a happy medium. You know, I'm probably a little too neurotic and like too much of a doomsday. I'm always predicting like the worst is gonna happen. And that's why I'm.

[Harrison Forman]

It's healthy though, though. It's helped.

[Nicole Richie]

Yeah, I'm like, I have the same mindset as you.

[Anna Kai]

Rather just pretend like I'm gonna fail.

[Nicole Richie]

And the bars, I don't think. I never thought I was this mega talent. I still don't, I don't think anything. I. And I, and I've been, I've recently met some people and one of them's like, oh, like that you're funny. Like make, make me laugh. I go, dude, I'm not. And like, I'm gonna set the bar low. Right now, you're probably not gonna have fun around me. And, like, And. And I. And like, an hour later, the guy was like. Like, yeah. I go, yeah, dude. Like, this isn't. You know, we're not. I'm not. I don't think highly of anything. I. Just go with it. Just go with it.

[Harrison Forman]

Just go with it.

[Anna Kai]

Just go with it.

[Nicole Richie]

Another quote from the Juice isn't always worth the squeeze.

[Harrison Forman]

Juice isn't always. Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. But I think what it is that keeps you humble. And I, like, you know, we're in this weird industry where I feel like flexing is, like, a really big thing. You get, like, a name dropping, and I don't. You know, I didn't build my business from knowing anybody or being, like, connected or anything. It was just me.

[Harrison Forman]

Love that.

[Anna Kai]

And just.

[Nicole Richie]

That's us, too.

[Anna Kai]

That's us.

[Harrison Forman]

Totally.

[Nicole Richie]

You know, we don't know John Stamos. We don't have access to him. And any of these people. Like, no one has helped.

[Harrison Forman]

That's so cool with you, too. I mean, no, you got the people who do this with no help. It's. It's.

[Nicole Richie]

We get negative.

[Harrison Forman]

Refreshing. Yeah. Negative. Yeah. People who push us down.

[Nicole Richie]

No, we get pushed, like, other than. And that's why we love this. Our. Our fans in the cult, kind of like, cold following. Like, it's us, them, and then everyone around us. It's like, they're like, yo, like, fuck you. I'm like, dude, like, just let us just keep going.

[Harrison Forman]

Yeah, have fun and just don't stop. That's our. If anyone listening, you know, is working on something, just have fun and don't stop.

[Anna Kai]

Right?

[Harrison Forman]

Forget about all the noise.

[Nicole Richie]

We laugh all day.

[Harrison Forman]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

So I want to ask you about how you met Mel, because it's against everything I believe about how relationships start. So you saw. Saw Mel first in a picture in your friend's apartment?

[Nicole Richie]

Yeah, I moved into a new apartment. It was in Murray Hill. I was. You know, a few years ago. It was April 2021. My neighbor was very friendly, nice girl. I was like, in her apartment. You showed me her apartment versus my apartment. And I was. I went into her room and I saw a photo, and I pointed to the picture. I was like, oh, your friend's, like, gorgeous. Like, she looks like Mila Kunis a little. Who I. I love big eyes. Like, I'm like, yeah. Oh, my gosh. Really hot. Like, that was it. Walked out, got a text a few days later, hey, like, my friend's interested in you. I was like, what? Friend. Like the one from the photo. And then. Yeah. Went on a date.

[Anna Kai]

No vibes at first.

[Nicole Richie]

The day. It was so awkward at first. But Also, this was April 2021. So was a weird period of like, she. You know, like, it was. The pandemic was, like, slowly fizzling out.

[Anna Kai]

But people were still afraid of getting Covid. It was at the warrant in West Village.

[Harrison Forman]

Right.

[Nicole Richie]

You really. To your heart. Homework.

[Anna Kai]

Was it outside or inside?

[Harrison Forman]

Great spots.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah.

[Harrison Forman]

I think your first question, like, what's your favorite color?

[Nicole Richie]

It was like, what's your favorite color? Oh, my God.

[Harrison Forman]

But it's a joke with her. I got. That's funny.

[Anna Kai]

She didn't get it.

[Nicole Richie]

No, no, she. I think she, like. No, she's like. And Mel, she. This is My girlfriend. Does not. Like, she's not there. She ain't. She ain't on a date to entertain or be phony. She was. The date started kind of awkward. I'm like, this girl's kind of intense. Like, this is weird. Like, why is she, like, not like, you know, like, because I'm. I'm being phony. I'm like, whatever, right? And then, like, I am like, this is the worst date I've ever been. I go into the bathroom. I looked at myself in the mirror. I'm like, like, things are going to change here. I get back out of nowhere.

[Harrison Forman]

Yeah, I did have time.

[Nicole Richie]

I get back, suddenly, like, we're just talking about real stuff. A vibe is going. I do the move I used to always do with anyone. Yeah. I go, see how big is your hand. And then you lock. And then you're like, oh, what happened here? And then it was just. We vibed and I. And I walked home after the date. I was talking to myself on the way back, which I used to. I always still do. I talk when I walk along. Something to talk to myself. I was like, yo, this is. That was best date you've ever been on. Because it went from there to there. I was like. I go, that's the last first date ever.

[Anna Kai]

And it was.

[Nicole Richie]

Yeah, it was. Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

So marriage is in the cards.

[Nicole Richie]

She's. She's the kind. Mel. She's like, doesn't want to wed.

[Anna Kai]

Okay to ask at three years, Definitely.

[Harrison Forman]

That's a great. I love. Put him on the spot.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. So what. What are your thoughts?

[Nicole Richie]

Yeah, she. She's. She's. She turned 28 in May. She's the type where, like, she doesn't want any. Like, she's like, I don't want a wedding. Whatever. She's so laid back. I'm not ready. She's the opposite of most, like, girls her age. Especially, like, Jewish girls in New York. Like, she's like, I don't even know if I want a ring. I kind of want whatever. But, like, she's now into it. Like, you know, she probably not. You know, she turns 29 next. May probably be around then whenever she's ready. I would do. Whenever I. I would have gotten engaged, I think a month or two. Like, I. I told her, I think sec. Two or three weeks in, I was in love. You know, I. And I gave her an all. I gave her an ultimatum. I think, like, two or three weeks. And I was like, yo. Like. She's like, you're an insane. She's like, I don't know if I'm in love with you yet. I go, look, if you're not, then I gotta. I can't waste my time here.

[Anna Kai]

Oh, my God.

[Harrison Forman]

Yeah.

[Nicole Richie]

I was like, I know how I feel. She was like, how do you know? And then. And I was really like, I. I broke down. I go, yo, like, what are you doing to me? Like, she goes, I don't really know you.

[Anna Kai]

Like, by the way, she's reasonable.

[Nicole Richie]

Totally reasonable. But look, it ended up. I knew. I knew right away. And then she knew a couple months later it was right, and that was it. Like, we're. And we just vibe. There's no we fear.

[Harrison Forman]

You were fearless.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah.

[Nicole Richie]

I said before, not much different than Harrison. Different type of thing. But, like, he right away just planned a Tokyo trip with someone. I right away told someone. Like, I'm in love. Like, I. And I would have gotten married. I would have. I would gotten married. Then I would do it now. I would just do it whenever.

[Anna Kai]

Call her up right now. Hey, you want to get married?

[Nicole Richie]

I would do. Yeah, we're not. So. Yeah, like, the engagement won't even be exciting because I've already. I've asked her. I've asked her before, like, randomly, like, yo, like, what if we just, like, went to, like, I went to Vegas.

[Anna Kai]

Like, by the way, as somebody who did have, like, the traditional wedding and could do it all over again. I would not have a wedding.

[Harrison Forman]

No way.

[Anna Kai]

Like, I thought I was the girl. Cause I'm like, I'm a girly girl. Like, I like nice things. I like, you know, I wanted the ring. I picked out my own ring and everything. And the wedding was so fucking stressful. That were at yours 109, which is. I have a tiny.

[Nicole Richie]

That's nice.

[Brandon Berman]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

But I wanted it to be like 50.

[Harrison Forman]

I know.

[Anna Kai]

And then I wanted it to be. I just planned. We just had a party for my husband. He just turned 40. And I planned a. I think it was a 35 person party. And I just. I don't know. The older I get, the more I realize that I just want to hang out with tiny groups of people where I can have real conversations. I don't like parties anymore. Like, I don't like just kind of these like weird situations, meaningless, where you get to talk to somebody for five minutes and then you're like, okay, I guess I saw you.

[Nicole Richie]

I hate that shit.

[Anna Kai]

So, yeah, the wedding situation was tough for me to comprehend because I always thought I was going to be the person who was like, in love with my wedding. Right. I was like, I'm going to get the dress, the whatever. I'm an only child. My parents really.

[Harrison Forman]

The Vogue cover shoes.

[Anna Kai]

Oh, my God. Right? And I happened to go viral 10 days before our wedding. And I remember, I was like. Because I'd been trying for two years and I was like, this is the coolest thing to ever freaking happen to me. The wedding was almost like. I was like, everyone can get married. I was like, who goes viral on TikTok? I was like, so. And I still think, because here's the thing, I was with my husband for like four years before we got married. The wedding felt like it was almost for everybody else except us. You know, we are so low key in our personal lives that, like, it was almost like I didn't have a moment to just like, be with him. Like, I just took a second in the bridal suite. Like, we just sat there for like half an hour and I was like.

[Harrison Forman]

Oh, my God, do I have to.

[Anna Kai]

Go back out there?

[Harrison Forman]

I know there's so much pressure to have these crazy wedding. I don't get it. It's so. It's not stopping.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah, put it towards the down payment for something, you know, invest in your business. I was like, you know, I'm glad we did it. I don't regret doing it because I think it was really cool for my parents to see because they would have never gone to like a traditional American wedding because it's just me if it wasn't for that. But it was also very much like, I was like, this is like, so stressful and everybody's looking at you. And here's the thing, is like, I don't mind. You guys obviously don't mind everyone looking at you, but people are looking at you for a reason. You're providing like, of some value to the audience. Right?

[Nicole Richie]

Pressure. Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

But when people are looking at you at a wedding, it feels unwarranted. It's like, I am not doing anything that special. Why the hell.

[Nicole Richie]

No, it's not.

[Anna Kai]

Everyone is like, almost paid to like, think you are God's gift to man for like three days.

[Harrison Forman]

It's so funny.

[Anna Kai]

And I'm like, stop looking at me like, I just paid a bunch of money to throw a massive party. Like, that's the only reason why I am the queen of this party right now. And it felt very inauthentic to me because again, I just wanted. I was like, you know, again, when people are looking at you when you're doing a show, there's a reason they're looking at you. You are earning kind of that attention. And I was like, I didn't do anything except spend a whole bunch of money on this wedding.

[Nicole Richie]

Yeah. It is a weird. It should be a celebration of love. Yes. That really is what a wedding. People forget.

[Anna Kai]

That's what it becomes, a pissing contest.

[Harrison Forman]

I love that. I love the idea of destination because you can send out a lot of invites and they're empty gesture invites. I don't so like people who won't come.

[Anna Kai]

I don't like to talk like 20.

[Harrison Forman]

30 people will come.

[Nicole Richie]

I like that though. It's authentic.

[Harrison Forman]

You invite a couple, you're gonna do.

[Nicole Richie]

He's gonna do a weird. He's gonna do some weird stuff.

[Anna Kai]

You wear eye masks, don't you? What's like to like skin? Don't you do skincare?

[Harrison Forman]

I do some. Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah, you wear skin. You do skincare as a straight man, you're gonna do a wedding?

[Harrison Forman]

Yeah, he's gonna. I'm a wedding guy. He's a wedding, I'm a birthday. If you're a birthday party guy, then you're a wedding.

[Anna Kai]

Are you a birthday party?

[Harrison Forman]

I like birthday parties. I mean, you had a fun one the other day.

[Nicole Richie]

I did. I only. I did a big 30. But it was. It was because we're doing a show out there now. He. Look, you know what kind of guy I am. I do whatever anyone else around me wants. So if the girl, If Mel wants whatever. If she said, we're doing Chuck E. Cheese, I'd be like, let's do it. I don't give a shit. I'll do whatever. There are certain decisions. I'm very. I want this. There are things. I don't care. I will do whatever everyone else wants. A wedding is one of those things. It's everyone else's decision. It's hers. It's whoever. I don't care.

[Anna Kai]

Are you the chill one in the relationship between you and Mel?

[Nicole Richie]

No, I'm actually the most intense one.

[Anna Kai]

Intense, too.

[Nicole Richie]

You said in a different. In a different. It's hard to explain. We're both, like, intense, but also we're literally the opposite. Like, in many ways, but, like, the same. And with certain things, I do whatever. With certain things, she does whatever. And with a wedding, it's one of those things, I think, where we're both kind of like, we don't care.

[Harrison Forman]

Yeah.

[Nicole Richie]

So it's like, whoever, you know.

[Anna Kai]

How about you and Marin with the wedding? With the wedding. And who's chill and who's not?

[Harrison Forman]

We're both pretty chill. She's chill. Marin's very.

[Anna Kai]

I almost think she's more chill than you are.

[Harrison Forman]

She's. Yeah, I'm a bit more type A and intense. And even the first time she met me and now that we're dating, she was like, I thought you were way more, like, loosey goosey Cali kind of guy. And now that. Because I'm a little more. I'm definitely more type A. But. Yeah, but she still, you know, has her, you know, what she wants from a wedding, you know, a life and all that.

[Anna Kai]

She has a vision for her.

[Harrison Forman]

She's a vision. She's a visionary. She's a. She. She's a visionary for her personal life, in a way, which is cool.

[Anna Kai]

And I like that she's kind of like. And she's very. I mean, when I found out she was from the Midwest, I was like, that makes sense because she just, like, got a heart of gold. And she's. No ulterior motives. Just kind of loves people. Loves just like, you know, kind of.

[Harrison Forman]

So kind. Just so genuine and kind. And Midwest people. Yeah. They really just make you happy. There's no bullshit. But I also like when Marin shows some east coast and yells at me. I'm like, this is hot. Keep doing like this. Like, keep yelling at me to fuck off. I love that.

[Nicole Richie]

Yelling is healthy.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah. No, I agree.

[Nicole Richie]

I love a fight.

[Anna Kai]

I know a good argument.

[Nicole Richie]

Awesome.

[Anna Kai]

I love a good argument that I win with my husband.

[Harrison Forman]

Yeah, it's healthy.

[Anna Kai]

Okay, so kind of controversial topic, but both of you. I'm curious. Do you think a man needs to love a woman more in order for the relationship to be healthy and for the guy to stay?

[Nicole Richie]

That's a really good question, actually.

[Anna Kai]

I have a theory, but you guys go, I. Whoa.

[Nicole Richie]

I Actually don't have an answer. I. I think the. I think the. No, I don't think. No, I think the girl gotta be loved more. I love someone for loving me. So, like, that's.

[Anna Kai]

Like.

[Nicole Richie]

That's actually my answer. Like, I think we're on. Obviously, I was the one very aggressive in the beginning with Mel with love. And over time, though, I think, like, she's really, like, you know, has really given me love, which makes me love her, like, back. So I need to be receiving it a lot.

[Anna Kai]

Right, but you were actually willing to put yourself out there without kind of any guarantee of success. So what was it about Mel that you were like, this is worth it because you dated other people before, right?

[Nicole Richie]

No rhyme or reason. I felt comfortable. I felt. There was just a comfort I felt. And I'm like, there's something right here. And that was. But I love. Yeah. Just like, it's like, I looked at her. I'm like. I'm like, I know. I was also, like, a chemical. I'm like, I know you. I'm like, we've. I feel like I've been with you, like, even now. I'm like, there was life before we met. It's weird. Like, it just, like, was. Right, that's it.

[Anna Kai]

You were both cats in another life that lived in the same house or something.

[Nicole Richie]

Something. Yeah, we. Something that. That. Yeah, we just. It was. It, like. I'm like, this is right. Chemical. It was a. And her smell, too. I'm like, why do I like smelling? Sniffing.

[Anna Kai]

That's the thing, I think I've never really. Really looked into it, but some people are really into that, like, pheromones and smell and stuff.

[Harrison Forman]

It's a real thing.

[Anna Kai]

Is it a real thing?

[Harrison Forman]

Yeah, you need. Yeah, that. That is very important. I mean, I think it has to be easy, right? The final.

[Nicole Richie]

Who do you think loves the review?

[Harrison Forman]

And Marin? I think it should be. It's equal. I think equal is the healthiest because. And Marin and I. Marin was saying some of her friends, the girls do 90% of the housework or something. The guy does 5, 10%. And I don't. I'm like a 50. 50?

[Anna Kai]

Yeah.

[Harrison Forman]

Like, we're 50 fit. You know, it's. It's pretty equal.

[Nicole Richie]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

See, I think. I personally think that the guy has to love the woman just a little bit more because I think. I mean, it comes down to that whole, like, Hunter, whatever. Like, I feel like straight men need to feel like they cannot lose the woman they're with in order to not lose Them because I feel like if you feel like you can do better as a man and than the woman you're with, you will go and find better. Whereas women I think are very much like stability. Like we're into this person, we're going to invest in this person. And you know, and I just sort of feel like so am I wrong there?

[Harrison Forman]

That is. I mean that's why guys, you know, when they up, they get the flowers, you know, they know they. They almost like when that fear that they might lose. You're right. I see where you're saying like do.

[Anna Kai]

You guys feel like. I feel like you're both in relationships where I've heard more or less the same like you were like, oh, I felt like Marin was out of my league.

[Harrison Forman]

Totally.

[Anna Kai]

You know, it's like you were like, I am never going to find somebody as great as this person.

[Harrison Forman]

Right.

[Anna Kai]

And I don't know if women necessarily need that in order to commit and say long term. I think men need that.

[Harrison Forman]

Guys are more like, I met my dream girl. Yeah, Girls are. Girls less often say I met my dream man. Guys say, I met my dream. That's interesting.

[Nicole Richie]

You're right. Because I'm actually just playing a lot of couples. I know almost every relationship I know around me. I'm like, this guy should not be with this girl. You're right.

[Anna Kai]

The healthiest relationships, I'm like, the woman was a catch and you are just fucking lucky to be in her aura.

[Nicole Richie]

No, you're right. I actually think and I think I'm pretty equal to like. And we actually have said to each other like Mel and me like we're pretty equal attractive. Like I'm like, you know, I think she's more attractive than me probably. But like if you average. But the laughs make up for my nose so it evens out.

[Anna Kai]

But yeah, Harry personality hire.

[Nicole Richie]

But we see guys.

[Harrison Forman]

You guys are a good looking couple.

[Nicole Richie]

We're cute. I think we're more cute than like, you know, people don't. People want to cuddle with us. They don't want to like have a threesome.

[Harrison Forman]

That's so funny.

[Nicole Richie]

I think you're right though, Anna, because I'm. I'm thinking of other couples and yeah.

[Harrison Forman]

These guys gotta wake up lucky. I look at Mary, I'm like, I'm the lucky. You know. How'd this happen? Yeah, I should count my lottery ticket because.

[Anna Kai]

Have you guys prior to your current relationships, did you date women? You were like, this is good, but I'm not like willing to commit. Or were you Kind of just like, I'm just not. I feel like my husband. My husband was single for four and a half years before we met, and he was like. There were a lot of women that I dated kind of on and off, but I always just felt like there was something better for out there. And I felt like I was that woman in a lot of relationships with guys where, you know, I was like, they are into me, but they're looking for something else and to see if something's better.

[Nicole Richie]

No, you're right. You're honestly right about this stuff. Like. Like, it's. It is. It is kind of cut and dry, like people. And I was one of those guys. Like, I was always. I never really rejected anyone. Like, any date where I wasn't into it, I'd be like, yo, we should go on a second date. Like, I just feel like, you know, I. Like, you're so cool. Like, you should meet my. We should all hang out. My friends. Like, but, you know, deep down, like, you know, who is who. What's right and what's not.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah.

[Harrison Forman]

Yeah.

[Nicole Richie]

It's pretty.

[Anna Kai]

Well, I think men are way more. They're a little bit more ruthless in that there is no. Like, they don't need to, like, make, like, the person they're with feel okay. They're just like, this isn't it, you know?

[Harrison Forman]

Totally. It is kind of binary with a guy.

[Anna Kai]

Yeah.

[Harrison Forman]

Either I want to date this person or not. Right. And I'm so, like. I feel like anyone who does something creative or entrepreneurial, you. You're so picky with your time. Right. And a lot of people just weren't, you know, worth our time. And then you. And then you meet the right person. Right?

[Anna Kai]

Marin and Mel, you're the right people.

[Nicole Richie]

Good people. Good vibes. We like good people. That's it. You know, Marin's a great person. Mel. Good person.

[Harrison Forman]

Great person.

[Anna Kai]

Okay, so to the women who feel like there are no good men left out there, what would you say from a male perspective?

[Nicole Richie]

Harrison, we may have the same answer. Go for that nerd. Go for the guy. Don't go for the guy who's back to the Klitsie. That's it from Girl Next Door. Go for the nerd. Not only is he going to, you know, is it going to be better? He's probably bigger.

[Harrison Forman]

I love that. Yeah. The hot guy isn't all he's cracked up to be. You know, there are good dudes out there, and I. Yeah, nerds. Nerds are great tech guys. Find a tech guy, they're loyal tech.

[Nicole Richie]

Guys are the most loyal and also care less about the family. So huge thing in New York. Girls are obsessed with like what your family is, where you're from. That's a new. I don't know, I mean maybe that is everywhere. I think that, I think actually before someone's job and looks, what I see here is people go for families. They go for what's this person from? What's their, what's their thing? People got. Don't, don't. That's who gives a. Like. I think that's what people got to stop doing. That's a commonality I notice in most relationships. I see it, they're not with them for their look, their job. They like the fam they want.

[Anna Kai]

It's the lineage.

[Harrison Forman]

I love that. And another one, some succession.

[Nicole Richie]

No, dude, every, every couple I know or I. A lot of things I see out there and people I meet, I'm like, that's what they wanted. Not his. I'm like, this guy's. Because I'll meet a guy who's with this like really, you know, cool, hot girl. I'm like, he's got a pretty, he's very not good looking guy. And I'm like, oh, he works at like, the guy's working at like Yelp. And then you find out, oh, you.

[Anna Kai]

Look at what that's his retirement plan. The family.

[Nicole Richie]

Yeah.

[Anna Kai]

People look, the trust fund. They're looking for the trust fund. I'm looking for a man in six five and the man. Six five.

[Nicole Richie]

Yeah. And the vibe.

[Harrison Forman]

Yeah. Last thing I'll say about that, find a guy. Because we do the show all over so that we've seen men in America. If you're a girl in New York and you don't like the guys here, find a Texas guy. These guys are thoroughbreds. They are, they are loyal. They are like, yeah, a thoroughbred racehorse. These guys in Texas, I've never, we've never seen anything like it. They are the hottest, hottest, coolest, most genuine cowboy. Just find a guy in Texas. That's my advice. In the south, right?

[Nicole Richie]

Texas has the best men in America.

[Harrison Forman]

Texas.

[Nicole Richie]

And it's nothing to do with people. Think about politics and think about that. If you go to Texas and meet the guys we meet there, you will drop to the floor and them, they are so cool. Texas is so cool.

[Anna Kai]

Gay for half of that's how you know they're cool.

[Nicole Richie]

They're so cool. Fly to Texas, spent a couple weeks there. You'll meet a dude. You'll meet the greatest guy.

[Harrison Forman]

Ever question any of those things? To Dallas, Austin, Houston, all of them.

[Nicole Richie]

Tyler. Texas.

[Harrison Forman]

Tyler.

[Anna Kai]

All right, so they're great. Note to end on. So, ladies, if you're having trouble in New York, go to a guy or go to Texas, meet a guy and maybe bring him back to New York if you don't want to stay in Texas.

[Harrison Forman]

Yeah, bring him back. Because it'd be funny walking down the street seeing like more Texas.

[Nicole Richie]

I would love to see cowboy hats and shit. We love.

[Anna Kai]

You're going to be saying single handedly responsible for raising the real estate values of Texas. All these women are going to be moving there now.

[Nicole Richie]

It is the most. It is the. It's our favorite part. It is Texas. Its own country.

[Harrison Forman]

It's so cool. It's a fun place.

[Anna Kai]

Well, they talk about like Texas wanting to secede from the U.S. so that is, you know, a thing.

[Nicole Richie]

The guys there, they're thoroughbred, man.

[Anna Kai]

Thoroughbred. Chris is going to move there soon at the rate he's going with these women in New York.

[Nicole Richie]

Like there is cool.

[Harrison Forman]

Chris.

[Anna Kai]

Chris.

[Nicole Richie]

Similar vibe. You heard it here.

[Anna Kai]

Awesome. Thank you guys so much. Where can I find you or where can people find you online?

[Nicole Richie]

Personal Instagram burmy16 and then obviously updating. We're all over the Internet f watch the show at.

[Harrison Forman]

Updating show. Updating show.com tickets if you want to come to the show. Personal Instagraman. Yeah. Find us on the streets of actually a city near you.

[Nicole Richie]

Yeah. Or everywhere. One other place you could find some good guys at the updating afterparty. Oh, yes.

[Anna Kai]

Get tickets to a show, ladies. And we'll be.

[Nicole Richie]

I'll be there. You could travel to Texas or come to our after party.

[Harrison Forman]

We might have to cast Chris on one of these upcoming shows.

[Anna Kai]

Oh, 100%.

[Nicole Richie]

You're welcome. You're invited, man. Whenever you want to. Come on.

[Anna Kai]

We'll have you on the time you go on. I need to come. So if you're going on, you gotta text me. I'll be there. All right. Thanks so much, guys.

[Harrison Forman]

Thanks for having us. You're amazing.

[Anna Kai]

An O'Reilly Auto Parts gift card is.

[Nicole Richie]

The perfect gift for that.

[Anna Kai]

Hard to buy for person.

[Nicole Richie]

Give the gift of convenience from O'Reilly Auto Parts.

[Harrison Forman]

Oh, oh, oh.

[Nicole Richie]

O'Reilly Auto Parts.