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- [00:01]
A
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.
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B
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- [00:27]
A
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B
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A
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B
Get started@HubSpot.com marketers. Welcome to Brutally Anna, a podcast about finding love, losing love, and all the things we think about but don't talk about enough. I'm your host, Anna Kai, AKA maybe both across social media, here to remind you that life can be beautiful even when it's freaking brutal. She's the queen of confidence. One of Forbes 30 under 30 top creators and the mastermind behind SFK. Serena fucking Kerrigan is living proof that who we are is defined not so much by what we are given, but what we create. I'm so excited to welcome Serena today to the podcast to talk about how she actually found her confidence because of, and not in spite of her insecurities. Serena, thanks so much for being here.
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A
What a beautiful intro. Thanks for having me, my queen.
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B
I tried very hard. I was like, how do I describe the woman who has. Has described herself so well time and time again? And I was like, you know what? This is what we're gonna go with. You share so much of yourself and your alter ego online. One of the best things I remember reading about you is you were saying, I have a hard time being Serena Kerrigan. Like, I'm. It's SFK is so natural to me now. And it's your alter ego and it's what you created to deal with your insecurity. And you said this in an interview, I think, with your now boyfriend. And I'm just curious, in the last year, how have you put that into practice? Because that's your way of being vulnerable. It's like, hey, I'm not Serena fucking Kerrigan. I'm just Serena Kerrigan right now. How do you feel confident in just your skin? And also, do we have the pleasure of being joined by just Serena today?
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A
Who do you want?
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B
Cause I can be everyone.
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A
I can be sfk or I can be Serena.
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B
What's your. Wait, what's your actual middle name? Do you have one?
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A
It's fucking.
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B
It's.
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A
I can be whichever you want me to be, but I can turn it on.
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B
Maybe both. Hashtag maybe both. Okay, here we go.
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A
Let's fucking go. I think that definitely, especially I just turned 30, I definitely feel like it's something that I can turn on and off. Like, I can be SFK right now if you want me to be or, like, I can be Serena, and I'm comfortable being Serena. However, I think that, like, I feel. Definitely feel more vulnerable being Serena, especially with posting online. Because before, I could just post online and be like, well, that's a character. If you talk shit about her, who cares, right? That's not really me. But now it's like, I'm definitely more myself.
- [02:56]
B
But don't you think people relate to you more? Like, I love your confidence and everything online, but I think some of the things that I remember the most about your content is when you're being vulnerable is when you're like, hey, I don't know if I'm going to crush it in X, Y, Z, but I'm trying. Or, you know, what we talked about is like, you're like, I'm super fucking burned out. Because this is a field where you are expected to come up with genius.
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A
Every day, which you do. I love your videos. Like, so I love the, like, the rhythm of them and how you tell stories. I think it's really fucking amazing. And the fact that you're also doing, like, a get ready with me is crazy because, like, I cannot do two things at once. I love that.
- [03:34]
B
You were like. I think it was for your birthday. You were like, I wish I was. It was like you were holding a makeup by Mario palette, and you were like, I'm not a makeup artist. I wish I was this black one. Never touched it in my freaking life. And I was like, you wouldn't know because you. I mean, your makeup looks great. Like, you don't.
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A
I really practice. I wrote it on my vision board. I was like, you were learning how to do your own makeup because we are done spending money on glam, Literally.
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B
But you're, like, best friends with your makeup artist.
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A
Yeah, I'm such a fucking fuck. Like, I literally, like, I'm like, wow, you've saved me so much money on them. She's like, I know, but, like, we have, like, a good. We have a good vibe. We have a good agreement. But, like, literally, I was saying that to her yesterday, so crazy timing.
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B
Have you picked up tips from her?
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A
For sure, and I actually did my own today. But, like, we love to hang Out. We love to Kiki. She loves doing it. We also, like, have a system where she does it literally in under 30 minutes.
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B
So.
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A
Because, like, it's. It's very. You know, I'm not asking her for a full beat.
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B
Right. Right.
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A
But, yes, that was one thing that I really wanted to, like, get better at, is learning how to do my own makeup, because that shit adds up.
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B
Yeah. I've actually, you know, I have the opposite problem than you. I almost never let anybody touch my face.
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A
Right.
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B
Because people like Asian faces. I've just had, like, horrible experiences with people just, like, not really understanding that my eyes are the same shape as yours. And, like, my skin, like, the amount of, like, oranges. Thank you. But, like, my skin has, like, a yellow tint to it and a lot of found. I'm like, I look orange. It's just. So I have the opposite problem. So, like, now on photo shoots, not that I do a ton of them, it's like, okay, well, like, the logical next step would be to hire a makeup artist and a hair person. And I'm like, don't touch me.
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A
So it's so interesting. You said. I literally did a photo shoot the other week, and the first of all, it was a combination hair and makeup artist, which is fraudulent.
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B
There's no fucking way.
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A
There's no way that you are just as good at doing both. So that means you're mediocre at both. I'm sorry. It's fucking true. Like, just pick one and slay. Every single time. It's been a woman who does both. It's like you're getting what you're paying for, which is not good. And I was. It really, like, rocked, like, my confidence that day on.
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B
Did you look at yourself and you liked neither. You like neither your.
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A
Nor your makeup? Oh, my God. I couldn't even. It was so slow. It was so painful. And it's like the. You know, I was being shot, like, for a campaign, and, like, there. I'm gonna have to promote this, so I'm gonna have to like what I look like.
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B
It's just.
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A
So I literally, like, went to bathroom, and I was like, you can do this. I literally was like, serena fucking Kerrigan, you get in that fucking mirror.
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B
Seren got in the room.
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A
She tried. She tried to be nice, and then she. I was just like, goodbye. And I did my own makeup, and I was just like, I. I think I'm better under pressure for sure. But I think back to just like, what you're talking about with confidence. It's Like, I don't know. You found me in 2020. So I looked very different. I, like, had huge eyelashes, like, tarantulas on my face. Like, I was obsessed with. Obsessed with getting eyelashes. My hair was chopped bright blonde or like, bleach blonde. And, like, I just feel like I dressed a lot differently. I was very sexy. Sexy, which, like, let's fucking go. Like, I. Why? I was about to say I have great tits. They kind of, like, fall to the floor, like, gravity wise. But, like, they're slang. They're slang.
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B
At least you have some skin exactly as sleek. Because here's the thing.
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A
Like, right, Grass is always greener, but.
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B
They really cheat on me.
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A
They're mad at each other always. And then they're also, like, looking down. They're upset. They're angry. They're angry tits. But I felt like I dressed, like, you know, just very sexy, very promiscuous. And I really so. And I love getting glam. Like the opposite of you. I. I felt like if I didn't have a professional do it, then I wasn't. Then I wasn't beautiful. And I felt like if I didn't have my eyelashes, I wasn't beautiful. If I didn't have this, like, really crazy, like, blunt chop. Like, there was all these things that I needed to feel beautiful. And I think that with age, time, working on myself, you know, tapping into the size of K Persona, I was able to kind of, like, take this mask off. Like, taking the eyelashes off. I don't think you understand, like, how much of, like, like. Oh, terrifying, Terrified.
- [07:28]
B
Don't. Like, as somebody who was born with, like, no eyelashes, I get it. It's like, oh, my God, like, what do I look like without eyelashes on? And I think when you first start off in such a public space, you know, you're very online at 2020. You're like, you know, you have nothing but time but to put on eyelashes. No, no.
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A
I ended up professionally done. And during the fucking pandemic. Yes. Lockdown, I managed to find a bitch to come over to my house and do it.
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B
And you didn't get Covid.
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A
Oh, I got Covid four times. Like, she's fine. We're fine. We're good.
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B
Your eyelashes are the reason you're immune to Covid.
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A
Quite literally, that.
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B
But this is my first factor.
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A
First of all, I was fueling the economy during COVID Okay? Everything was stopped. My poor lady, like, she couldn't get any work. And I was like, you know what? We can make this work. I'll just Gonna cover my mouth. You do it too. But I was addicted. And I think that I remember my friends confronting me, being like, you're gonna take them off, and it's gonna be shitty for, like, a couple weeks, maybe a couple months.
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B
You're gonna feel naked.
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A
Naked.
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B
It's like. It's like losing your phone.
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A
And then. I'm not gonna lie. Like, I look at women now, and I'm. You would look so much better without the eyelashes.
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B
Yes.
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A
Like, it's hard to, like, see now. And listen, it was a thing of the time. And I think that, like, I talked. I made a video making fun of myself about the lashes. Because, guys, like, I think you should, like, toss to a clip. Honestly, I'm giving you, like, the rights. The rights to my content. Show. Show everyone.
- [08:42]
B
Right.
- [08:42]
A
Just picture just, like, legit tarantulas on my eyes. I made a video, like, making fun of myself, being like, oh, my God, I can't believe I look like this. And my mom was actually, like, who I'm really close with. She was like, I can call her my. I was not allowed to call her my friend growing up. I don't know if you grew up in that same.
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B
Why?
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A
Because it's a respect thing. Like, we're not friends. Like, she's my mom.
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B
Oh, no. My parents were like, where are your friends first and then your parents? And they were super chill. And, like, my.
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A
My mom was chill. But, like, I think that that was, like, the boundary, which is why I'm not, like, a Sephora, you know, Gen Alpha nightmare.
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B
Yeah.
- [09:18]
A
So that was, like, the boundary that we had. So I don't go. But anyway, yes, she's my, quote, friend. Right. Now that I'm growing up, I think we can be friends. Although not really. No, not really. She really lays down the laws and tell them.
- [09:27]
B
But that's an immigrant thing.
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A
Very, very much.
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B
My parents are very atypical immigrants. But, like, for the most part, like, my immigrant friends are like, there is a very. There's a hierarchy in the house, and mom is at the top.
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A
She should be. But it's just more like, I needed. I'm an only child, too. Like, I needed the boundaries. Like, I needed some level of routine and, like, rules.
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B
Right.
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A
Other than I broke all of them. I got arrested. Like, I wasn't allowed to go to prom. Like, I was totally a mess.
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B
I did not.
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A
But she did instill some rules.
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B
Wait, you got arrested? I did not uncover this in my stalking of you.
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A
Yeah, I was 16. That's why I was expunged back to my mom really quick. I made a video and I was, like, making fun of myself and she was just like, she wrote me a beautiful text and she was just like, you know, as much as, like, I get it. She was like, I feel like this. It's good for you to show your audience. Like, I tried out different. I tried out a different look. Like, I experimented with my look and like, I figured out that that's not what I like. But you shouldn't be ashamed of that because I think, like, we're taught to, like, be small and not try things and, and. And conform to what everyone else looks like. And she was like, I just feel like, you know, the way that you talk about it, like, you should encourage your audience to, like, they want to try eyelashes. They want to try, like, cutting their hair. Like, they should do that. That's a form of self expression and finding out who you are and your identity. And there's nothing wrong with evolving. And I, like, literally was going to cry. I was like, I love you. Like, thanks. Like, they were fucking heinous. And I spent so much money on those lashes. Goodbye. Goodbye.
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B
But they were your tuition. I always say that. I think it's like, you know, you have to be who you're not in order to become who you're meant to be.
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A
Amen.
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B
And, you know, my love affair with eyelashes still continues. They have gotten smaller. I will say over.
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A
I was about to say beautiful, but they look so natural.
- [11:07]
B
But they're fake. They're.
- [11:09]
A
But they're not extensions. Do you put them on yourself?
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B
I put them on myself.
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A
That's the difference. It's the ones that. It's the professional ones.
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B
I can't do the extensions. I did them for a little bit and then I realized, like, I couldn't do my makeup the way I want you to, like, be very.
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A
This is great.
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B
Thank you.
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A
This looks real.
- [11:22]
B
But I will say it's like that point about you saying, like, you should not be afraid to experiment with who you are is, like, so powerful because I feel like we're like, I remember. I don't know if you. You went to Duke, which is, by the way, out of left field. After being a kid in New York City, I'm like, so much.
- [11:39]
A
I need to learn how to drive.
- [11:40]
B
I'm sure, by the way, lots of my city friends do not know how to drive, which, I mean, again, the getaway car. What do you do in a situation like that?
- [11:48]
A
You take an Uber ride.
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B
Sharing. You know, I think for me, it Was like, I did not. I tried social media. I started in 2020 as well, but I started off as a home decor blogger, which is embarrassing when I.
- [12:04]
A
Not embarrassing. Maybe embarrass is a choice.
- [12:07]
B
Thank you. But you know what? I'm okay with that. I'm like. I like. I looked back at my.
- [12:11]
A
You liked it?
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B
I liked it. And I was, like, trying it. And then I was like, I can't fucking repaint this wall 8 million times. Like, how do people do this?
- [12:19]
A
Would men do that? Would men be like, I try this out. Oh, so embarrassing. Like, men would never fucking say that.
- [12:25]
B
No, it's true. But when do men reinvent themselves? Sorry? When do the straight. I, like, don't.
- [12:30]
A
Do you remember who our president was? He used to be on a reality show. Okay, let's be fucking for real. They reinvent themselves all the time, but they don't feel embarrassed about that. You know what I mean?
- [12:40]
B
That is very true.
- [12:41]
A
I think there is more of a pressure of women to reinvent themselves, especially, like, in the music industry.
- [12:45]
B
I think women are taught, basically, we constantly have to be keeping up with the times, whereas men, they're, like, allowed to exist on so many levels.
- [12:53]
A
Yeah.
- [12:53]
B
So you figured out in the last year, you're like, I'm good being Serena nsfk. And you have also said that we're all born with confidence. Right. It's just that we're infected with society's pressures as we grow up, which is, like, such a great way to describe it. And you gave birth to SFK when you went to Duke. Was that the line in the sand for you because you grew up in New York City? I don't know what growing up in this city is like, but I feel like that's gonna be a very, very different experience than plopping yourself in the middle of North Carolina and just kind of. No, not really.
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A
No. It's all rich people.
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B
Like, literally, it's all the same people at the.
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A
It's all the people from the Northeast that wanna, like, have a Southern experience.
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B
But were you confident before you went to Duke, and did Duke kind of take that down a couple notches, or were you always. Cause I know where, like, my insecurities came from. Right. I can kind of draw a line in the sand at where it was. I grew up in an affluent area, but not at all. So, like, my parents moved us into, like, a rental apartment in a nice part of town so that I could go to the nice schools. But I remember being three or four, and we. I would play with all the kids in the apartments, we were all the same, and we all had parents that were immigrants. And, like, I didn't feel different. It was just fun. And then I went to school and realized, like, people have so much more than me, you know? Were you like, hey, I'm chilling. I live in New York City. Upper west side is my bitch. And then you go to Duke and you're like, holy shit, I'm not making out with a lacrosse player.
- [14:20]
A
I mean, yeah, that. But also. Well, I just think that there's this idea that, like, you're either confident or insecure. And I think it, like, comes in waves. And I think that there's certain things that are triggers. I think, like, there was things in my household that I grew up with that definitely took a toll on my confidence.
- [14:38]
B
Where your parents are divorced.
- [14:40]
A
Yeah.
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B
So that I'm.
- [14:41]
A
Yeah. But for. For sure, like, there was just. There were certain things that were said to me growing up that definitely took a toll and led me to, like, really want validation from men. And so when I wasn't getting that, that triggered me even more. So when I go to a place like Duke, where a lot of people are, and then, yes, the affluent thing was 100. I remember, like, in high school and in college, every summer, everyone would go to their house in the Hamptons, and it was like, I felt very much, like, not very welcomed. Like, I would be invited, but I would always be last minute. And so then it's like Memorial Day weekend or Labor Day, or like, you're.
- [15:16]
B
Like a substitute invite, right?
- [15:19]
A
Like, it's just like, well, damn. Okay. No, I'm just kidding. No, but literally, it was just. I didn't know how to navigate that. And I remember being in the car once. And also, even when I was at these. My friends houses, it was like their parents house. So then I'm like. Like, it's a. You. You're not entirely. You don't feel entirely like it's your home. It's not. Right.
- [15:39]
B
So, like, there's no ownership of the space.
- [15:41]
A
Right.
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B
And now you don't even have parents who have a similar house. Whereas I think if you did.
- [15:44]
A
I didn't have a country house. I didn't have, like, a Hamptons house. Right. Like, and my parents, too. Like, I. They'd send me to private school. And I remember just being, like, around literally, like, kids of the richest people in the United States. Like, we're in New York City, duh. So I remember being in the car in the Hamptons once when I was in high school. And I was like, I'm like, my daughter's never gonna feel this way. Like, I'm getting. I'm gonna have a house so she can have her friends, and she can feel like she belongs. And it's interesting because as I've gotten older, I don't even know if I want that for myself anymore. Because it's such a. Like, it's the Hamptons, and it's changed a lot. And it's very, very bougie. And I don't. I don't know if it aligns with my values anymore. We'll see. Yeah, we'll see how rich I fucking become, bitch. Because I will be. But, yes, I think that there are a lot of things. There's a lot of things that are said to you and a lot of different factors at play. And I just remember when I came to Duke, I was just. It wasn't that it was the line in the sand. It was more just like, this was like this opportunity to reinvent myself. And I was like, I gotta take it. Like, this is a perfect.
- [16:43]
B
Nobody knows who you are.
- [16:44]
A
No one knows who I am. So I'm just going to call myself Serena fucking Kerrigan. And I liked this. It was very intimidating to, like, be with all this new student body and, like, all these men, men, boys. Like, it was just, like, intimidating. And I was like, oh, if I'm this larger than life character, then, like, I'm chilling. And it totally worked. But this was, like over 10 years ago. You know what I mean? So it's a lot of evolved. And then I was able to really monetize it, turn into a brand. Because I think that, like, we all have these moments where we're feeling imposter syndrome, or we're scared, we're feeling insecure, and we just need to be like, no, bitch. Like, you fudgeing got this. And that's essentially what SFK was for me.
- [17:18]
B
So how did it look when you first reinvent? Like, do you remember the date that you were like, I'm Serena fucking Kerrigan. And, like, what you did that day around campus?
- [17:27]
A
Yeah, I mean, I remember it was like, at night, we were pregaming for a party. And, like, I was with all my friends in the freshman dorm, and I'm like, I'm starting to fucking hear again. And they loved it. They, like, ate that shit up my friends at the time. And then, like, I would tell upperclassmen, and they were like, no way. Like, you change it legally. And I was like, you got it. To do. I was like, no, I'm just kidding. But I was just like, yeah, for sure. And then, like, it got to people. People. At first people didn't like it, Then they loved it. Like, I don't fucking know. It was a million years ago. But for me, it's like, I intuitively knew that this was the move, even if I got pushed back and I did. Like, I don't think my parents were just like, what? Like, now it seems kind of weird to say, but back then, like, you know, a lot of people said, like, you're never gonna get hired for a job. You're never gonna work with brands. Like, you know, you're never gonna get a boyfriend. Like, you're not getting into a sorority. Like, all those things happened to me, but people were really uncomfortable by me saying, I'm string at fucking Kerrigan. And I don't just think it's because of the fucking. I think it was because it's like a confident woman making noise. And I. Our society is really conditioned and programmed to, like, look, they're more. They're comfortable with someone who's palatable and safe. And my content has never been like that.
- [18:36]
B
You know, taking it back to the Hamptons comment, you were like, oh, you know, when I was growing up, I was like, my daughter's never gonna. You know, I'm gonna make so much money that I'm gonna have the biggest Hamptons house. And now I don't even know if I want that. And it's like, in some way, I feel like what you've created through SFK and just making noise is that you've created something better than fitting in.
- [18:55]
A
It's standing out fully 100 fucking percent. And. And that's the thing. And, like, I've asked myself, like, even with the content stuff, I'm just like, oh, like, should I do this? Should I do a get ready with me? It's like, I can't do it. Like, I really wish I could. Like, I can't. Like, there's something about me that I physically, like, can't do things.
- [19:09]
B
You're like, the pre Get Ready with me era.
- [19:11]
A
I just, like, yelled at you in front of the camera. Like, there was never an activity. It was like, bitch, pay attention. And I want to do. I wanted to try vlogs. I tried all these things, and it just didn't feel native to me. And I realized, like, whenever I've just done my own thing, I wanted to start a podcast. I tried to start, like, SFK tv, which was like, Basically, like a video first podcast. And I just, like, it just doesn't feel organic. And so I realized I was like, every time I just have to listen to my intuition and just do the thing that goes against the grain. But it's annoying because, like, sometimes I'm like, why can't I just, like, be normal? You know? But I feel like I'm very untraditional in a lot of ways.
- [19:44]
B
But that's why you're sfk. The other thing is, it's a blessing and a curse being you because obviously you have all these opportunities available to you. You've created so much that has been success, and I think so much that you are proud of.
- [19:55]
A
Right?
- [19:55]
B
But it's like everyone in the industry is always looking to you, like, where's the podcast? Where's the YouTube channel with 3 million subscribers? Why aren't you on Snapchat? Why aren't you on Twitch? Like, I don't know, you know? And it's just like, guys, I can't get on one more fucking platform. You know, it's like, I just want to do what I want to do. And I think what it is, at the end of the day, you are a filmmaker. That's what you really set out to do. You set out to tell stories. Your first story was just your story and the story of you dating. And that's how you. And so you're just bringing it back to that.
- [20:26]
A
Oh, love.
- [20:27]
B
And if podcasting is not your thing, you know, it's like, there are so many things that people have, like, thrown in my court over the last year and a half that I've been in the public conscious. And, like, I know that maybe I could be good at this.
- [20:39]
A
You're good.
- [20:39]
B
And I could be, you know, I mean, beyond that, it's like stuff that. It's like, oh, do you want to create a course? Or. I'm like, no, I don't. I really don't want to create. I'm like, you know, I don't want to create a course, and I'm not a therapist. And, you know, I give, you know, what was unsolicited advice in the beginning, because nobody was asking more me for it. It's like those memes that I love, it's like, you know, those influencers that, like, so many of you have been asking me. No one was asking.
- [21:05]
A
Are you kidding me? Literally same. No one was asking.
- [21:08]
B
No one was asking. I was just trying to save myself.
- [21:11]
A
Right, exactly. 100%. And a lot of the advice that I give my Gave, you know, it was just advice to me. Like, I make content for me, and I realized, like, I'm fatigued of the content. Like, that's always a thing. The through line is like, whether I create a product like the card game or like a smoothie with Joe and the juice, or I. A piece of content or anything that I'm creating and making. Like, it's literally for me what I want to watch that consume that. Would I like that? Would I buy that? And if I can't say yes, I won't either.
- [21:37]
B
A yes or a fuck no.
- [21:39]
A
100%.
- [21:40]
B
Right?
- [21:40]
A
It always goes back to that. So it's just about, like, being authentically you. It's just sometimes I. I'm uncomfortable because I'm like, oh, my God. Like, I just. I feel intuitively like I'm supposed to be doing something else, and I am doing something else. But, like, writing a movie is the least instant gratification. No likes, no shares. I feel like I'm not creating as much because I'm trying to write. So then you're like, not.
- [22:03]
B
It's a very private process, fully, and you're a very public person, right?
- [22:08]
A
So then it's like, okay, and so it's a long game, right? But it's like. And then I'm still trying to play the short game in the meantime. And, like. But it has to be something where I'm giving it my all. And it's like, I'm. In order to, like, enter this new era, I have to let go of the old one to some degree. Still my day job, and it's still what pays me. But, like, that's very scary to be like, okay, I'm gonna do this. I am sacrificing.
- [22:32]
B
You don't know when I had 87 followers, right? Which was what I started off with, like, a year and a half ago. I was like, if I ever. I didn't even dream of a million followers, I was like, if I hit a million followers, like, I will do whatever the fuck it is I want to do. I'll be successful in everything. And you get to. And you're like, nothing. The next project is not guaranteed. Like, you're not guaranteed success in the movie. I'm not guaranteed success in the podcast just because we were successful on another platform. And I think the scariest thing for me, and I don't know if this is the same for you, is that, like, I'm like, well, before, when I was failing, like, nobody knew besides my friends and family. And now I'm like, oh, there's like a public platform that would see that, like, oh, my podcast isn't charting or like, you know, but in some ways it's almost good. Like, to me, it's so inspirational that you tried, you know, SFK tv, you tried a bunch of things that like, you just didn't stick with. And I think we're so taught. Like, I think, yes, you shouldn't quit and like, you should stick with what you want to do. But like, I think there needs to be more dialogue around quitting what is not for you so you can make space for the things that are for you and you are perfect. I remember SFK TV and I was like, oh yeah.
- [23:40]
A
And it was epic. And I got everything I needed out of it. Like, I don't see it as a quitting. I think it was just like, I, it evolved, I evolved. I pushed it literally towards a substack, which I love because it's more writing, it's in just in more in tandem of what I'm doing. I just felt like producing an hour, you know, or sorry, a 20 minute episode. But you know how long it takes to do that? Like hours every week just like, didn't feel good. And I'm like, I focus on feeling good. Like I really do.
- [24:06]
B
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- [25:22]
A
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- [26:22]
B
And I think that's what sets you apart, because I look at your content and yes, of course you do the selfie where you're talking and you're yelling at us, which I love, but it's like you're other content is so well produced. It's like, I'm like, what camera is she using? What's this lighting setup? I don't remember seeing that ever. You know, in a world where everything is instant gratification, especially, I think with the advent of TikTok, things are so much less aesthetic now fully, which is great in a way. For people like me that have never learned how to use a freaking DSLR camera, I'm like, I'm just not going to like, no, it's democratized.
- [26:57]
A
And I think that that's good. And I think you should only need a phone to make amazing content. However, like, I've always done highly produced content. Like, I just, I started making movies when I was 15. Like, this is always what I've done and I love doing it. And so that's my thing. And it's about getting better and better and better. And so, like, I'm in meetings now where they're like, what are your dreams? And I'm like, to direct a Super bowl commercial. So what's it gonna be?
- [27:18]
B
That's awesome.
- [27:19]
A
And I'm like, The more. Because that to me is the goal of doing the branded and I love it. So.
- [27:25]
B
So you kind of want to be more behind the camera long term?
- [27:28]
A
Well, I mean, in my branded content, I'm in front, right?
- [27:31]
B
Yeah.
- [27:31]
A
But yeah, I think that, that ultimately, like, I think it's just really badass.
- [27:36]
B
Female directors, I mean, like Greta Gerwig.
- [27:39]
A
Like Sophia Coppola, like, it just, like it's just badass to just, you know, tell a story. And that's how I really started. Like, I didn't act in my own movies. Like, I don't, you know, I just, that's just how I started. So that's kind of where I want to go.
- [27:52]
B
Or you could do it all.
- [27:53]
A
Or I could do it all. I mean, of course I meant for a little cameo, but it's interesting. Like, I don't. And I was asked this because I'd been writing something and I just kind of like had meetings in la and I was talking to a lot of executives about it and they asked me, like, do you want to act in the movie? And I said, you know, I don't have any imposter syndrome, really. About directing or writing. It's writing a little bit sometimes because it's so fucking hard. But like, then I get over it. I'm like, I can fucking do this. But directing, definitely not. Like, I know I can direct anything, but when it comes to acting, I'm like, I don't think I'm the best for this role and I want my movie to be the best. So I want to actually cast someone who's literally committed to their craft and is real, like actress versus wanting the fame and like wanting to be on camera and like the attention on me.
- [28:35]
B
Well, it's kind of like the makeup and hair thing. It's like if you do both, you're good at neither.
- [28:41]
A
No, and by the way, they're amazing people. Like, they're amazing people that direct themselves and that are in their own content for sure. And I think you can do both for a first time filmmaker. Like, why would I do that to myself? Because it's so overwhelming. But moreover, like, like Lena Dunham did that. Right? Like, she did a beautiful job at that. But I just.
- [28:57]
B
Or don't worry, darling. You know.
- [28:58]
A
Right, Exactly.
- [29:00]
B
But I love that movie.
- [29:02]
A
Yeah, no, it's been done. It's amazing. But I think it's just like I'm just being honest and I want to tell an amazing story the best way I can.
- [29:09]
B
I'm like, and you don't Feel like you're the.
- [29:11]
A
Also, I aged out of the role that I'm writing for. I'm like, I'm not. It's not me, but I could definitely have a cameo. I could be the Uber driver, even though I can't drive. Okay, you'll be the barista.
- [29:21]
B
Wait, you can't drive? Even though you went to Duke and.
- [29:24]
A
You were like, I have a license. But, like, when I, like, you don't want me on the road. Okay, like, nobody does. I'm just being honest. We all know our strengths. It's interesting that you talk about, like, strengths and what you're good at and leaving room for that. Because my mom and I were talking about this, and she was just like, I think you're. When you're younger, you're told to follow your dreams. And while I think you should dream big and listen, bitch, I've checked it all off again. I will continue to do that. You have to also lean into your strengths. Like, right now, if I said to you, yes, I'm gonna become a truck driver, you'd be like, but, like, we just. We just said that you're not gonna good driver. I mean, you could probably get good at driving, but it's like, I think you dream big. But I know, like, at the core, I'm really great at storytelling, so I'm just gonna lean into that and dream from there.
- [30:06]
B
I always think about what my parents or what my life would be like if my parents had forced me to go the traditional Asian kid route.
- [30:13]
A
Right?
- [30:14]
B
I am terrible at math. Like, when I say I cannot do tip, I know people have told me, like, oh, it's like, you add two for every table.
- [30:21]
A
That's what Google's for. AI. It's good.
- [30:23]
B
There's a calculator on my phone. Like, I literally can just touch it.
- [30:27]
A
Done.
- [30:27]
B
Right? And so it's like, for me, I never was good at math. I was a decent student. I wasn't an amazing student. You know, being a doctor wasn't in the cards for me. Like, being a lawyer just seems stressful to me. Cause you're basically always like, you know, in people's, like, worst moments. I was like, you know, I don't know how to handle that. And so my parents were basically just like, you freaking like your freak flag fly. You know, my dad, he's like, you know, I think you should approach rearing children the way you look at a weed in your garden. Just let it grow, whichever the way it wants to.
- [31:01]
A
I'm obsessed with that energy.
- [31:02]
B
I Was like, be the weed, right? Be the freaking dandelion and let your little, like, buds fly all over, right? And so it's like. Because he's like, if I had forced you into finance, you know, because at nyu, because we're in Manhattan, as I'm sure you know. It's like, first of all, I didn't know what investment banking was until I was, like, 20. Because in Pennsylvania, where I grew a banker as a teller at, like, a.
- [31:22]
A
Well, why would you. Yeah, all my friends did Ivy after Duke. Like, all of them went in and by the way, they all have left. They all have left and started their own company, done their own business or in something creative. Like, it's just.
- [31:32]
B
That's so funny. All of my friends stayed and they've climbed the ladder and they're like, are they happy? Yeah, they're happy. But, like, their personalities are suited for that, you know? Those friends look at me and they're like, how the hell do you create shit every day?
- [31:46]
A
Totally.
- [31:46]
B
And I'm like, I'm medicated. So obsessed. Like, dream partnership. Zoloft.
- [31:53]
A
Yes. Speak it out.
- [31:55]
B
Ether, baby.
- [31:57]
A
I agree. My parents were very similar. They were like, you need to do what you love and then the money will come. And whatever you find out what you love to do, become the best in the world at it. And that's the thing, like, with my branded content, could I, like, slack off and, like, you know, just, like, buy this? Yeah, but, like, I've. But I love. And I spent a lot of money on my content, on my production. I used to spend all the money that I would make, like, on it. And my managers, my previous managers were like, you're fucking crazy. Like, what are you doing?
- [32:25]
B
And I was like, you're investing in your business.
- [32:27]
A
It's because then, now brands are like, we want the sfk, like, ad. Like the, like. Like, it's known. Like, brands are coming to me specifically wanting a type of storytelling in my vibe. And like, a style like the SFK style, which, like, is like, literally, like, I've been working years at that to get to.
- [32:43]
B
You're making effectively. You're, like, taking it back to the OG commercials that we all used to watch as kids in the 90s. It's, like, so well produced. Thank you. You know, and again, I'm like, what camera is she using? It's beyond that, but, like, it's all the storytelling, right? And it's like, it shows. You reinvest back into your business.
- [33:03]
A
You have to listen to your intuition. Like, people are always Gonna be like, why are you doing this? No, you should do this different. Da da da da. And like, some. And by the way, I'm always like, I hire everyone who's better than me. Like, literally. Like, I'm really great at hiring. I've hired amazing people. I still work with every single person that's been my assistant. Like, been a different level for me, if that makes sense. So, like, my. One of my assistants was my. Is now my coo, another one of my assistants. Social media strategy, another one graduated runs. Let's.
- [33:28]
B
You are your own company effectively and you are promoting people with that within your company.
- [33:33]
A
So I think it's so important to, like, help people grow, go after their dreams and also, like, hire people that are better than you. But every time I haven't listened to my intuition, I'm so fucking mad at myself. Like, every time without fail. And so it's about, like, just being, like, intuitively. Like, I feel like X, you know, I feel like I want to not do this brand deal or. And like, you just have to really trust yourself in that. I think that's also what confidence is, is like, whatever that voice is, I don't know if it's God. I don't know if it's whatever deity you believe in. My mental illness. Like, I don't know what it is. But that voice is so on point every time. It's like a guardian angel that isn't infected by society. What your parents might have taught you or like the kid that bullied you at school. Like, it's like, there's something about this voice that is very, you know, true to you and guiding you. And I think, like, holy fuck. Like, listen to that.
- [34:27]
B
But isn't it great? Because, like, I always think if you listen to yourself and you make a mistake, it's like, I don't have any regrets because this is what I thought I should have done in the first place. And it. It wasn't right. Because sometimes your inner voice is just wrong. Right? We're not always right. Our intuition sometimes leads us astray. But every time I've listened to somebody else against my own intuition, I'm like, this sucks. I should have just listened to myself. The regret is always in not listening to myself rather than in listening to myself and fucking up. Right.
- [34:57]
A
I don't think my intuition has ever failed me. Like, you just said that. No. Like, it's never. It's always when I don't listen to it.
- [35:03]
B
Interesting. Okay, so you've never had a moment where you're Like, I thought I should have done this, and it didn't pan out the way I thought it would, perhaps.
- [35:11]
A
But I don't really see. See that as, like, I see that as just like a. A lesson.
- [35:16]
B
A lesson to finish.
- [35:17]
A
No, I'm always right. I'm just kidding. I just think it's a lot, you.
- [35:20]
B
Know, what you're always eventually right. Maybe that's the way to think about it.
- [35:23]
A
Like, it's. I always think it's redirecting you to where you need to be. So maybe that's my perception of things. So I don't really feel like I should have. Shouldn't have listened to my intuition. My intuition's always right. It just might lead me to something unexpected. But that can be a positive thing.
- [35:38]
B
And most of the time, always how you look.
- [35:40]
A
Oh, it always is. Like, it really always is.
- [35:42]
B
Well, I think women are taught to question our intuitions all the time. We're taught to second guess, whereas men just, like, do things. I remember I had an ex one time, and I was. What was. We were like, drunk in Punta Cana or something. And I used to sing, right? And I'm not like a great singer, but I used to like singing, right? And I grew up kind of wanting to perform and everything. And so I would, like, sing for him drunkenly, like when we were together and whatever. And like, there was like a weird karaoke thing going on at the bar. And he was like, you should just get up there and sing. And I did it, and it was kind of horrible. And I was drunk and whatever, and I left. And I was like, ah, whatever. Like, nobody saw it. But he was like, Anna, like, what you should do is get. Cause he was like, it's not that you're a bad singer. It's that you act like you're a bad singer. You get up there and you're like.
- [36:26]
A
I'm not supposed to.
- [36:28]
B
I know. And I was like, I didn't. You know, I was like, where were you in my life back then? I mean, where was I? Honestly? Like, I had. My confidence was like, not in this atmosphere, right? So he was like, you know, you look at me and. And you think, I know what I'm doing. And the reality is I just make shit up. And people just automatically assume I'm right. Cause I say it with confidence.
- [36:51]
A
That's what SFK is. It's literally. And I don't, like, fake it till you make it because I feel like you're born with confidence. So it's like, it's just Tapping back into that. But yeah, that's what I do.
- [37:00]
B
It's like, if you act like you know what you're doing, people will believe it.
- [37:04]
A
The way that I started a whole card game empire without even knowing, having gone to business school, I just literally googled how to make a card game and I just did it. Like, there's no.
- [37:13]
B
That's incredible.
- [37:13]
A
No one knows what the fuck they're doing. So that's the thing. It's like. But the people that are successful are the ones that are willing to try. And I'm willing to try. Like, I don't get embarrassed. Like, I'm literally willing to just try anything. Like, I think it's. Life is too short to not.
- [37:25]
B
No, I know, that's great. And it's like, you know, I think there's like a genetic thing going on there because your parents are both creatives.
- [37:31]
A
Yeah.
- [37:32]
B
Which is.
- [37:32]
A
So my mom was a doctor before.
- [37:34]
B
Oh, she was.
- [37:35]
A
And then she like, literally finished medical.
- [37:36]
B
School and she was like, this is not for me.
- [37:39]
A
Yeah. After her residency in Argentina and then she immigrated here, went to nyu. Where's. My parents met at nyu at tu.
- [37:44]
B
Oh, okay.
- [37:45]
A
Graduate school. My dad was also going to be in the Marines, and then he left and then wanted to be journalism. Then he ended up in filmmaking. So both of them were very much like programmed to do something else through their parents and then said fuck it. And you know, they were both programmed.
- [37:59]
B
To do the practical thing, to follow the conventional path. Right, right.
- [38:02]
A
And then they didn't. So, yes, that's where the, the genetic nepotism comes into play.
- [38:08]
B
But I think it's funny because it's like either we look at our parents and we don't want to do anything that they have to do with they're doing, you know, or we look at them, we're like, I want to do exactly what they're doing.
- [38:18]
A
I grew up as an only child. Divorced parents. They. They divorced when I was 2. They moved a block away from one another. So go Monday, mom, Tuesday, Dad, Wednesday, mom, Thursday dad, and like, so on. So every other day I would go back and forth.
- [38:31]
B
That's great.
- [38:31]
A
Actually, they remained like very. I wouldn't say they were like friends, but they were really good at co parenting and they put me first and they didn't talk shit about each other and they split everything 50, 50. And like, that was really like the most fortunate thing. I think a lot of parents, like, they like, made conscious uncoupling cool before Gwyneth Paltrow decided like, really, like, they invented that. I remember a lot of other parents that were, like, getting divorced would, like, go to them for advice. And so they really put me first, I think.
- [38:55]
B
Like, how old were you when they.
- [38:56]
A
I was 2. So I don't even remember them together, but. Right.
- [38:59]
B
So this was just, like, normal.
- [39:01]
A
This was normal. So I think in terms of, like, career wise, like, I just remember seeing two people just love what they do. And, like, at my mom's, we would watch. She had cable, so we'd watch all the. Obviously, reality tv. And she works at mtv, so that's what we'd watch and dissect everything. And then at my dad's, we would just watch movies. And I don't know, it's just like, my parents were so passionate about it and storytelling and dissecting and analyzing. And so I just saw two people, and I'd visit my mom at MTV and go to trl. Then I'd visit my dad on set at, like, Port Authority Dudes doing a whole scene. And I just saw two people that, like, loved what they did and took so much pride in what they did. And I just wanted to emulate that.
- [39:40]
B
That's amazing, because I feel like so many of us are not lucky enough to, like, grow up with parents who, like, love what they do.
- [39:46]
A
I mean, it's really, like.
- [39:48]
B
It's actually very rare. I don't actually know anybody who in my life who's like, oh, my parents, like, loved what they did. Like, they might have, but what a.
- [39:55]
A
Bummer because you spend the most of your time working life.
- [39:59]
B
But I will say it's like, my parents did not love what they did. But I think for immigrants, there's not much choice. Right? Which is why my parents have always let me just do whatever I wanted to do, because my dad was like, I had to make a living here 100%.
- [40:17]
A
Yeah.
- [40:18]
B
You know, I did the thing that I didn't want to do so you could do what you wanted to do. And they're so happy now that I finally. Because they were very worried about me for a solid 10 years. I had a solid 10 years post college where it was just very unclear.
- [40:31]
A
That'S what your 20s are for. I don't know. I think, yes, I think it would be. We'd be remiss to not mention degrees of privilege within this conversation and, like, how much that, you know, enables people to be able to do what they want to do. However, I think now people are not glued to one job. Like, a lot of the people that I Mean, I have, like, four jobs. A lot of people that work for me. I'm one of five clients that they have or jobs that they have. So I think now it's like everyone has a side hustle. Everyone has, like, a different project. And, like, we work from home now, more like. I think that that's changing generationally, where you have to take a really shitty job and that's the only outlet that you have. That's all. The only time you're spending is that.
- [41:11]
B
Well, technology, maybe that's like a very.
- [41:13]
A
Like, technology has changed that too, right? Because you can have a whole business online. And I just see that more and more. So, yes.
- [41:19]
B
And I think taking privilege into consideration, it's like, we're talking about kind of two different groups of people here. And so it's like, if you are privileged enough to be in that bucket where you can move around, where you have an education, maybe even if you don't have an education, it's like. And you're stuck in a job that you don't like. It's not like you're also feeding five kids and you don't speak the language, and you have no idea. Those are different kind, kind of buckets of people we're talking about. And so it's like, if you are privileged enough to move around, you should. You should not stay.
- [41:51]
A
But also, like, Like, I'm sorry. And maybe this is like, the white privilege. I mean, that's fine. Okay. But I really. I've seen so many stories. Like, I think that if you really want something so bad and you believe in yourself and you say, I'm gonna make this happen, like, I just think the world rewards you. Like, I think that you can make it happen. I really fucking do. And maybe that's a very, like, positive toxic pov. But, like, we've seen a lot of really successful people come from nothing, and they were just focused on the work and dedicated and got the fuck out of, like, their situation. And I think that it really is, like, if you have that drive and that hunger in you, like, you can.
- [42:28]
B
Make it happen, you know, I think basically your dreams have to change given your circumstances. So, yes, these people that I know who've come from nothing, a lot of careers were not in the cards for them. Right? And a lot of careers were not in the cards for me. But it's like, okay, well, what am I good at? It's going back to the, hey, like, I'm not good at math. I'm not good at this. Like, this is what I'm good at. How can I capitalize on that? I started off in my 20s wanting to be an actress.
- [42:52]
A
Right.
- [42:53]
B
And it just didn't really work out. Like, I auditioned.
- [42:55]
A
It could happen now.
- [42:56]
B
That's the thing. It didn't work out.
- [42:57]
A
I am writing a movie. It's the thing, like, I think, like, for you to be, like, it didn't work out. Says who? Like, you have a long ass fucking.
- [43:04]
B
Life if you really want that time.
- [43:06]
A
Right.
- [43:06]
B
But if you.
- [43:07]
A
Maybe because it wasn't meant for you at that time. Right, right.
- [43:10]
B
And I'm, you know, here's the thing. It's like I live a life beyond what I could have ever imagined 10 years ago. And really what I wanted to do was tell stories because I always felt like I didn't have a voice growing up. So I.
- [43:22]
A
You're doing an amazing job at it.
- [43:24]
B
Well, thank you. But it's, you know, I think it's. That is what I set out to achieve. And 10 years ago, we didn't have TikTok, we didn't even have video on Instagram. So the only vessel I remember thinking, like, the only avenue for me is acting. So that's what I'm going to pursue. But it's funny because you're always just trying to get picked in acting. You're auditioning for approval, which is so interesting. I think being the female director is such a power move because you are the one creating the product. You are picking yourself and then you're picking everyone else.
- [43:58]
A
This is literally why my parents didn't let me be an actress. For that reason, my dad was like, no, you want to be an actress, Be a writer and write the role for yourself. And I love that. I was like, damn.
- [44:05]
B
Because here's the thing, as an actress, it's like, you could not get the role because you're too, too short or you're too tall or they already cast.
- [44:11]
A
You're just at the. You're literally at the mercy of someone else. Like, why would you. That to me is like, that's a life that, like, you just have to want it so bad. Because I could never.
- [44:19]
B
It's. It's terrible because it's the only job somebody told me where they're allowed to discriminate against how you look. That and like bottle service girls at clubs, right?
- [44:28]
A
Yeah.
- [44:28]
B
So it's like, okay. I was constantly being told in my 20s, as I'm trying to figure out how to love myself, like, this is why you're not working in the field. You want to work in and so your parents were like, we see this. We're going to stay ahead of the curve. So why did you go to Duke?
- [44:45]
A
Because I really wanted to go to film school. Like a USC or like a Tisch.
- [44:49]
B
Which you did go to USC in high school for a little bit.
- [44:51]
A
And you dated like what, the researcher you are. Yeah.
- [44:53]
B
Didn't you date a guy like 8? First of all, I didn't realize you could have a relationship with a 25 year old when you're like 16. That was the age gap, right?
- [45:00]
A
You can.
- [45:01]
B
I was like, is that legal? Is he in jail now?
- [45:03]
A
It was.
- [45:03]
B
Sixteen's the cutoff, right?
- [45:05]
A
Sixteen's the cut off.
- [45:05]
B
Is that just in California or is that everywhere?
- [45:08]
A
I mean I was, we were in California, but I think that's New York. I don't really care to be honest. Like, it was weird. Like it was. I think my parents. In like, in. They like the weed analogy of your dad. It's that they were like, as long as he's treating you well, like go.
- [45:24]
B
Off, I guess you're alive, you're not doing it.
- [45:26]
A
But like looking at, like looking back now, like my boyfriend's 24 and like if he was dating a 16 year old, like that would be wild to me. So yeah, like something wasn't. There was a screw loose there. But I did, I did make a movie aoc. I went to Duke because my parents were like, you need an education. And like it'll, you know, you don't want to be someone who. And this is not completely true, but this was just the opinion at the time that like is only talking about movies. Like it's better to actually have a well rounded education where you're interested, inform your movies.
- [45:55]
B
You're making movies about life. If you're not living life, how do you make movies about life? Accurately.
- [46:00]
A
Exactly. And I loved it. And I love Duke. It was a long time ago, but I loved it. It was the best ever. And I'm so happy. And yeah, I went in being like, I want to be the next Ovia club. I want to be a filmmaker. And obviously that wasn't the first thing I did out of college. There was a lot of work and a lot of different things that I've tried and done and been successful at. But like this is the new era. Like this is like committing to my 15 year old dream when I was 15, you know.
- [46:26]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think.
- [46:27]
A
Sorry, when I was 15 years old.
- [46:28]
B
Everything you've done has really just been leading up to this point. And Will continue to. I don't think, like, you took a.
- [46:33]
A
Sidetrack to not at all. I wouldn't have been in the meetings I was in if I hadn't, like, made this name for myself. I realized, like, everything is supposed to. You have to trust the timing of your life. Like, you have to. And, like, even with dating stuff, which we barely even talked about, which is.
- [46:46]
B
Hilarious because we're getting there, but, like, I feel.
- [46:50]
A
I look back and I'm like, oh, I wasted so much time being anxious and upset that I wasn't going to meet someone, you know? And, like, that was a lot of time I just could have spent doing something else.
- [47:04]
B
I always think, like, if I had known 10 years ago I'd be here, I would have gone on vacation more. I would have just enjoyed my life more because I'd be like, I'm good. I'm going to get to where I need to be. But that's what I need to do now. Because there's always a new. The goal post is always moving. There's always a new set of anxieties.
- [47:22]
A
So true.
- [47:23]
B
For people who are motivated and want to achieve a lot. It's like, okay, now I'm here. How do I enjoy here?
- [47:29]
A
Always? What's next? Always for a fully.
- [47:31]
B
It's never enough. Right. And it's like, I never again. It's like, did you ever think you would be here?
- [47:36]
A
Yes.
- [47:37]
B
Yes.
- [47:38]
A
Sorry.
- [47:39]
B
That's where you and I differ.
- [47:40]
A
It's so funny when people are like, on TikTok, you're like, I never thought in a minute. I was like, no, bitch. I literally came out of the room being like, where the fuck is my red carpet?
- [47:46]
B
I'm like, see, that's amazing. And I'm convinced some people are born out of the womb with confidence. Like, I feel like I've just always been sort of like, maybe it's a way to protect myself. Like, constantly surprised because I'm like, if I set lower expectations for myself, but I work my ass off.
- [48:02]
A
Okay. I'm so glad you know. This is why, like, fundamentally, I am very against this whole dulu thing. This whole dulu trend.
- [48:11]
B
Yes.
- [48:12]
A
And this is going to go probably viral when we post on TikTok. I am fundamentally. I am fundamentally against the dulu trend because even though I say it, so, like, I bought into it.
- [48:21]
B
But we're all hypocrites at the end of the day. This is the story of the one who, as a maintenance specialist for a historic high rise, knows that vintage charm historically needs constant attention. Which is why when it's time to upgrade turn of the century mechanicals, they turn to Granger. With easy access to a million plus products and the scale to deliver when and where you need them, the right tools and supplies are never far away. So the one can keep that vintage building running like new. Call click ranger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.
- [48:55]
A
Feeling overwhelmed, struggling with mental health shouldn't be the norm. At Mindful Therapy Group, we specialize in connecting you with compassionate therapists that can support you through stress, anxiety, ADHD and so much more. With in person and telehealth appointments available, we can get you seen in as little as 48 hours. To make things easier, Mindful Therapy Group accepts most health insurances, including Medicare, allowing you to focus on you and not your wallet. Visit mindful therapygroup.com to start your mental health journey today. Inherently, saying that you're dulu means you're delusional, which is a negative connotation for stupid. You thinking a reality that doesn't exist. Correct.
- [49:36]
B
Yes.
- [49:37]
A
We can actually like pull up what the actual definition is. Is.
- [49:40]
B
But actually I'm.
- [49:40]
A
Yeah. Will you put up. Because instead of being confident saying I'm going to have a boyfriend, I'm going to make six figures, you're like, I'm so delulu. Like, I'm going to have a boyfriend. So basically what you're saying is like, I'm going to say what I want in life. What is the actual definition of delusional?
- [49:59]
B
Merriam Webster. Something that is falsely or delusively. Why are they using. Okay, next, the act of tricking or deceiving someone. The state of being deluded.
- [50:09]
A
Okay, great. So essentially this is like a negative concept connotation. And it's. You're tricking. Tricking is a negative thing. Right. You're not, you're being facetious, you're being, you're not being real. So it's like instead of just being like honest and being like, I'm gonna have a boyfriend, I'm gonna win an Oscar, I'm gonna do X, Y and Z. Women are now. And it's always, it's literally, I see it. There's no guy that's like, I'm delulu. I don't think I've ever heard my boyfriend say I'm dulu in my life. It's like women are now saying, I'm just gonna be Delulu for a sack and say I want X, Y and Z. So that way if it doesn't Happen. They're like, well, I was Del. Versus just being honest and confident with who they are and being like, no, I want this, and I'm going to get this for myself. It's like, it has to be preemptive like, this. Like, I'm just so silly and dumb, and I'm going to trick myself into thinking that. You're not tricking yourself. You're making this happen for yourself. You're manifesting this for yourself. You're doing the work to get there. And, like, that's why all the time, I'm like, I'm going to get on the Forbes list, bitch. I fucking did it. I'm going to have an amazing boyfriend. Fucking did that, too. I'm going to get into an amazing college. I did that. Like, I. There's so many things that I said, I'm going to do this. And I know there's a part of the Internet that is literally on me, right? Oh, my God. Who the fuck does she think she is? And I remember when I posted I'm gonna win an Oscar. I remember so many people like, for what? What do you mean? Actually, thank you so much for asking for writing, and I will. And it's not me being dulu. It's like, I'm doing the work to get there, right? And I wish that women felt more confident and comfortable saying what they want. And this is why. And I'll shut the fuck up out of this. I'm just very passionate. I started this whole vision board movement. I, like, host an event. It literally sold out in three seconds. Like, I've been so, like, the vision board is this space for women to be comfortable with being like, this is what I want. Because we are never taught to do that. Because if we do that, we're greedy, we're spoiled, we're delulu. How could we think that we could possibly get X, Y, and Z when.
- [52:00]
B
You get it most from other women, not even so much from men.
- [52:05]
A
It's totally inherently. It's all projection, all jealousy for sure. But it's. That's why I'm such a big fan of the vision board, because I remember I was like, I hosted an event. There was like 150 women there, and they were going out in front of everyone and being like, this is what I want. And, like, reading it. And I'm like, these women have not done this before. Like, they haven't been given the opportunity to dream and to be like, this is what I want to fucking accomplish. Because the second you say it, you can make it happen. You have to be able to say it and visualize it first.
- [52:32]
B
Right. Well, I think women are told what we should want, right? And it's usually fitting in. You know, I always think like, my life changed truly the moment I decided to live it with the entitlement of a mediocre straight white man. Because it's true. It's like I look at some of the people that I went to school with and I'm like, you are not special.
- [52:53]
A
They fill up, they fill up, they fill up.
- [52:55]
B
And you feel entitled to so much and you get it. And I look at that literally tomorrow.
- [53:02]
A
Like, but when women do, it makes people so uncomfortable. And that's the thing about SFK.
- [53:06]
B
Like, she's like, that's where BDE comes from. I think that, you know, S&BD, it's.
- [53:11]
A
The same acronym, it's just spelled differently. It's that and it like, it made people very uncomfortable. It makes people very uncomfortable.
- [53:17]
B
Right, Because.
- [53:18]
A
And that's why, like, going back to the beginning of the conversation, like, that's why sometimes I'm like, I don't have that mass that I would like to have and it's for a reason, so that's okay. And that's why I'm like, maybe if I step back and tell stories where I'm not so front facing, it might be more, more ingestible to audiences what I'm trying to put out there. But I think.
- [53:37]
B
Because they can remove you, right?
- [53:38]
A
I think people are very intimidated or like off put by sfk, because they are. Because it goes against what they think a woman should be.
- [53:46]
B
Well, it's almost like, you know, a woman who is confident in herself is very inconvenient. I didn't say that. I saw that, but I, I thought it was brilliant.
- [53:53]
A
Totally. It's like, I'm annoying. Sorry. Get over it. Unfollow me. Like, scroll.
- [53:59]
B
I know.
- [53:59]
A
Like, why does it bother you? Because you wish that you had the gravitas to fucking say something that you want in life. So just go for it.
- [54:07]
B
Yeah. And I think the difference is that's like why I feel like your content is relatable and why it's like, it's not like, oh, she's just obnoxious.
- [54:14]
A
Is because, like, I want it for other people.
- [54:16]
B
Yeah, you do it for yourself. You don't do it at the expense.
- [54:19]
A
Of other people, you know, and that's what confidence is. It's like being at the top of a mountain and being like, guys, the view here is amazing. Get your Ass up here now. That's why I do the vision board parties and that's why I like, try to, like, I want women to realize that they have that power. And by the way, it's beneficial for me to have women in positions of power. Fucking slang. It does not. There's no competition. Like, I need these women, right? Like, when I did that circuit in LA of meetings, I really spoke to all women. I was like, holy fuck, women are the one buying movies. Like, that's crazy. Like, this has been a very, like, categorically. I mean, probably all their bosses are white straight, else.
- [54:53]
B
They are for now.
- [54:55]
A
But categorically, like, the fact that they're in these positions and they're reading and they're bringing something to their boss is huge. And that's why we're going to see more Barbies and, like, more of these incredible stories told and made by women. It's because, like, we need women confident enough to be fucking in these positions of power.
- [55:12]
B
Women move economies. You know, last year, we're who saved.
- [55:16]
A
On our backs on our ax beauty industry on our back.
- [55:19]
B
Well, it's like. And it's also, you think about from a branding perspective, it's like, what's more valuable, women or men?
- [55:24]
A
Everything is. Women are superior. That's why we're the inferior fucking gender. Like, that's why I know we are superior. Hello. I'll die.
- [55:33]
B
I love that. I watched your podcast episode with your now boyfriend that was effectively your first date. And let me just say, I felt like I was intruding. I was like, oh, my God, this is so uncomfortable. Like, I feel like I shouldn't be here. Can you tell me how that opportunity came about? Like, how did he reach out to you?
- [55:53]
A
And so our mutual friend Talia lichstein, who's on TikTok, was on his podcast and she was like, you should have Serena Kerrigan on. And he DMed me and I said, yeah or no? I think he texted her for my number and he was like, I think we would have a ball together. Like, I looked into this girl and she didn't respond. So it was kind of funny. Like, the world, like. And so if someone. I'm just like, oh, fuck it. Then he like, DMS me. We love, like, chasing. He's chasing me, by the way. No, this is all super professional. I don't think he had any picture where I think he really liked. I think he just liked seeing me on interviews in the content and thought it was interesting. And then he DM me and I was like, yeah, reach out to my publicist. And I just remember saying that because I do really, like, try to just be selective with my time. But I remember saying yes to him and, like, be like, yeah, just reach out. Because I thought it was interesting that a straight man wanted to interview me. Right. It's very rare. So I was like, this is interesting. I thought he. I saw his previous guest. I was like, this is legit. Publicist said yes. I, like, I really am not thinking any. I was, like, gonna take the subway to Brooklyn. And then I get a text from Felix being like, I called a car for you. He never calls an Uber black for anyone, but he called it for me that day. I don't know what intuition he had, but he called me one. I get in the car, and then I remember he, like, was standing outside of his studio with his videographer. My public says, nowhere to be found. I'm like, I'm literally paying you to, like, greet me. Be there. No, he was like, inside. Whatever Felix was. So the moment that we met is on camera, which is really crazy. Like, we hugged and then just.
- [57:24]
B
He already had the cameras rolling.
- [57:26]
A
Right, right, right. Like, he had it outside to follow me. And then, like, it really just was like, the second I sat down, it was weirdly like, I never believed it was literally love at first sight. I didn't realize this.
- [57:37]
B
Really?
- [57:38]
A
Yeah. I mean, you listened. Like, it's a crazy. Like, it's really crazy.
- [57:42]
B
There's like something weird happening when you, like.
- [57:45]
A
I mean, I think, like, literally it was love at first sight. Like, I think it was just. Just like. And I don't think sight isn't like, I looked at him, I was like, I'm in love with you. But I think, like, instantly it was just like this connection that was, like, very palpable and, like, obvious, like, even. And I listened to the episode actually, like, a couple days ago because it was like the one year anniversary. And yeah, it's crazy to me how much we're flirting. Like, I literally, six minutes in, I'm like, are you hitting on me? I'm down. Like, he wasn't even hitting on me.
- [58:08]
B
But so after, he's like, trying his best. He's like, this is professional.
- [58:11]
A
No doubt. Sorry. And then on the podcast, I said, like, I'll be in a relationship in two years. And he was like, where are you gonna find this human? And I was like, I don't know. I guess we'll have to see. And he's like, you should bring it into the podcast. And I was like, it was literally him.
- [58:27]
B
I'm sure you talk about that all the time, but did he feel the same thing? Was he like, the moment I saw you, I thought something different. I don't know. Men or.
- [58:34]
A
I don't think that we were both like, actually, like, I think we both agreed that, like, we were gonna see each other after the fact. I think I was in denial, like, but I did text him after. I just felt so safe with him and I always, like, I knew that that was the feeling that I needed to look for. And I remember feeling so safe. So afterwards I just texted him saying, like, I had such a great time, thanks for having me. And then he was like, we should continue after, like, at dinner without.
- [58:58]
B
And that's how it.
- [58:59]
A
And then we were officially.
- [59:01]
B
Did you realize he was asking you out to dinner? And this wasn't just like. Cause it's actually kind of natural to be like, oh, you know, we vibe during the podcast. Like, let's be friends after.
- [59:08]
A
Is it not with men though? Like, like, like with you?
- [59:12]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [59:12]
A
Well, obviously kiki outfits. But like, no, it was like, yeah, like, cut too short. Like, we should continue at dinner, like, without. Mike's in cameras. And we were official three weeks later.
- [59:22]
B
That's wild.
- [59:23]
A
It was wild.
- [59:24]
B
That is great. Where'd you go for your first date? Your first off camera date?
- [59:27]
A
Sushi Yasuda. It was like omakase. It was like really legit. He picked me up in his car, which is like people New York City.
- [59:34]
B
So he drives. So he drives a getaway car, even though you can't.
- [59:37]
A
Exactly. Very important.
- [59:38]
B
Okay, good, I'm glad.
- [59:39]
A
But I still would like Uber.
- [59:41]
B
Was it one of Those like crazy 8 hour dates or were you like, I have to.
- [59:44]
A
No, I'm very strict about that. It was dinner, so. Because we really had our data ready. But I've always been like, you leave the money more. And it's not a, it's not a game thing. But also you're busy. You know, you have a schedule. Like, you don't need to be on a date.
- [59:55]
B
You get up early.
- [59:56]
A
You get up early.
- [59:57]
B
And I think you texted him very early the next.
- [60:00]
A
I love this.
- [60:01]
B
Like, didn't you? Like, he was like, what was I like, your first text that morning? Yeah, like at 7:25, you're like, I get up early. Like, what? Yeah, my husband does this. He loves to bust my balls because I'm like, you love me more than I loved you in the beginning. But then he was like, well, you were the One who asked me to be your boyfriend. I'm like, no, I didn't. I just asked, what are we.
- [60:17]
A
Oh, my God. That's literally so fucking funny that you say that. I think, like, Lindsay Metzler has that role.
- [60:22]
B
Yeah.
- [60:22]
A
You've recently interviewed her and she's a really close friend of mine, has been like, we started out together and she says that, like, a guy should love you. What, like, 20% more than. Yeah, like your.
- [60:31]
B
And I, I think, feel like, have to in order to stay with you. I know that's controversial, but it's like.
- [60:38]
A
I didn't make that happen. Or I literally am obsessed with my boyfriend. But I do agree there is that slight percentage that you want to have. I just feel like he.
- [60:52]
B
I don't know if it's like, evolution or something, like the hunter guy, which I know, but it's like, I think that is. Women are taught it is sperm chases the egg.
- [60:59]
A
It has to be like that. And that's why I get messages from women that are like, so we went on a date. I haven't heard from him. Should I text? I'm like, but like, let's. No, because. No, because if you already went on the date, that means, like, you. He knows you exist. Men are like, they're very one track mind. Like, with Felix, it was just like.
- [61:20]
B
It'S yes or no.
- [61:21]
A
It was just so obvious. There was never a question. There was never. And there was just no question in my mind. And everyone told me that that's how it would be, but I didn't believe them, clearly, because I would always be confused. It's like, if you're confused, just stop. Just stop. Just literally walk away. But I think that, and I know that you have opinions on this. This is because of scarcity mentality, which is completely perpetuated by the patriarchy. Sorry to bring this up again, but.
- [61:45]
B
It'S just like percent.
- [61:47]
A
My mom said when she first moved to New York, everyone was like, there's no good men left in New York. There were cover of every magazine article, like, how to win a man. Because, like, there are none left.
- [61:55]
B
Like, or we're taught, like, oh, my God, the ratio is so skewed. There's so many more women than men in New York.
- [61:59]
A
A constant like, that is not real. But what that does is it forces women to settle for mediocre men and to, like, settle for less than what they deserve. And, like, there are many times where I was just like, am I, like, just asking for too much, expecting for too much?
- [62:12]
B
And like, no, the answer is no.
- [62:14]
A
The answer was no. I, in 2020, wrote a list of all the qualities I wanted in a boyfriend and a partner. And literally, like, when I say, like, it's scary how it's Felix, like, I lit. I didn't write anything about age. And, like, he's younger than me, because I don't care. I don't think that that's a factor. I wrote emotional intelligence, maturity. Right? Like, all the. He hits every single one. Like, I wrote, doesn't drink, which, like, it doesn't actually matter.
- [62:37]
B
Like, do you not drink?
- [62:38]
A
No. Like, I fucking rage.
- [62:39]
B
But I.
- [62:40]
A
When I was thinking about my partner, I was like, I don't want them to be, like, drunk and hungover. Like. And he doesn't drink. Like, he will at a wedding. But, like, he's. That's not. And. And I'm so happy with that. But I was like, damn. Okay. Like, literally, things that I wrote down were so real. And I do believe that it works because we write down all of our dreams, our goals, our visions for our career. So why wouldn't we do that for the partner that we want to have?
- [63:01]
B
Well, I would say, like, dating is a career. And, like, people are always like, you know, I don't like dating. I don't like swiping. I don't like doing. I'm like, no, nobody said you had to like it. Like, I know, but I also think.
- [63:12]
A
That that mentality perpetuates, like, negativity and not good energy. I think that if you're like, dating is an adventure, and I'm on it. I'm on this ride. Okay? Like, if you say it sucks, it's gonna suck. Like, the way that you speak about things come to fruition. So, like, if you just go. And I always was trying to be like, he's out there. We're vibing. We're working on ourself. Like, I'm not fucking settling. And I just kept trying to have that. And don't get me wrong, there were many moments of, like, tears.
- [63:37]
B
Like, this sucks.
- [63:38]
A
Like, the weekends were the worst because I was always slowing down, and I was like, oh, my God. And it would catch up with me. But I think the way that you speak about it is very important.
- [63:47]
B
Well, I think it's the way you. You can allow yourself to feel bad.
- [63:50]
A
Feelings go away. Feelings go away. They're temporary. Yes.
- [63:53]
B
And then pick yourself right back. Back up. But feelings go away.
- [63:56]
A
You're allowed to also feel upset and for more than 24 hours, if you want. But I think that that's 48 is like the cap for spiring. But then it's like. But saying, like, dating sucks. You're literally making this a. Like a chore, like a cemented, like, narrative in your plot. Like, a feeling is temporary. And so that's why, like, even if it's. You're talking about yourself, I always say, like, you're allowed to feel insecure. You're allowed to feel bad about yourself. You're allowed to feel bloated. Or, I mean, you're allowed to feel like, you feel like your hair doesn't look so great. But feelings are temporary. So it's really. I get scared when women are like, I'm ugly or, like, I'm never going to find someone because I'm like, I'm like, you're literally right.
- [64:31]
B
You feel like you're never going to find somebody.
- [64:34]
A
Feelings. But, like, when you say that I am or like, those statements, I'm like, you're right. Like, I literally, like, believe. Like, you're writing your plot. Like, you're literally writing the storybook for yourself. Like, don't do that. Like, let's read.
- [64:44]
B
Like, let's erase this.
- [64:45]
A
Let's erase immediately.
- [64:47]
B
And then you're in charge of a plot. Bitch. Or it's like, you know, for me, it was like, I struggled. So I mean, it sounds like you did too. For most of your throat. 30s or 20s, dating in New York, I mean, it's just a slog here.
- [64:57]
A
I also think, like, being single in your 20s, like, I'm sorry. Like, the memoir wrote itself. Like, I literally just, like, lit like, you have all these stories. It's so fun. Like, my whole career is built off.
- [65:06]
B
Of literally dating in my 20s.
- [65:08]
A
Right. That's what I'm saying. So it's like, I think the issue here that you're bringing up is, like, when you look at what other people are doing, then you're always gonna be upset. But then it'll come around. It's like, people. All my friends are in relationships. Well, they. What if I told you they're all gonna get divorced worst? Then will you be as upset like, you. So just stop looking at what other people are doing.
- [65:24]
B
I always say to people who are like, all my friends are in relationships. Everybody's getting. I'm like, would you date or marry any of their boyfriends or husbands? And the answer is no. No.
- [65:33]
A
So exactly. It's just like, stop looking at. Focus on what you can control. Like, if you feel like you are having a tough time meeting people, then what situations can you put yourself in where you could. And like, I could have easily said no to that podcast when he asked me be on it, right? But I was in a really. I was a state. It was a real state at that time. Like a very conscious state of being open, especially transition phase.
- [65:55]
B
I remember you were like, I feel like I'm in a Serena Serena songs.
- [65:59]
A
And I was. And I still am, by the way.
- [66:01]
B
Right.
- [66:01]
A
But I was very open. Like, it's funny someone called this out because I, like, post it. People didn't believe that we actually met on the podcast for the first time because, like, duh, the Internet with. Because we're so cute. And like, people just thought the hemisphere was too crazy.
- [66:14]
B
There's no way there didn't on this podcast. You can't fake this.
- [66:17]
A
They didn't listen to the podcast.
- [66:18]
B
Hollywood could not write that.
- [66:20]
A
They agree. They didn't, but they.
- [66:22]
B
I'm sorry.
- [66:22]
A
Classic. They didn't watch it. Like, did you watch the clip? Like, classic. Like, people are so funny. But anyway, I posted receipts because I was like, fuck you. And like, someone commented that, like, when he said, like, the car's here. I said, I'm ready, exclamation point, exclamation point, exclamation point. Like, I'm ready. And I was like, that's so interesting because you're right. In that time of my life, I was ready for a relationship. Like, I really was. I thought I was before, but I wasn't. And I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that, like, who you're choosing. Like, I think that I. If I had met Felix six months earlier, I would have run away easily, would have self sabotaged, would have like, been like, oh, he's too into me. I was intentionally going after guys that were emotionally unavailable, physically, geographically unavailable. Like guys that like, were giving me slim nothing, nothing like little scraps below the bare minimum. Because I wasn't actually ready for that healthy, real relationship. So if you find yourself, you're like, there are no good men. I'm not saying you should blame yourself, but like, are you attracting what you're putting out?
- [67:20]
B
But why do you think you weren't ready? Like, where do you think? Because I know I was not ready before I met my husband, but it was again for me a very clear line in the sand as to why I wasn't ready. Like, by the time I met him, I was like, I would love a boyfriend, but I don't need you. Whereas prior to that I was like, I need A boyfriend to feel fulfilled, filled.
- [67:40]
A
There you go. So I feel for me, it was really like going through like some trauma experience when I was younger. Like, really, like, I thought, like, it's so funny. Like, I've been in therapy since I was seven. So like, I was like, I'm so self aware. I'm so like, in tune with my emotions and myself. But I think that, like, when you go through traumatic things in your life, like, you actually, like, the human reaction could be to like, tuck it away, hide it, throw it under the rug, like, really to not deal with it. And I didn't realize how much, much things that happened to me were affecting me in my present, which is why I'm like, obviously such an advocate for therapy, but also like talking about the really difficult shit. Like, I was able to do that and it was very healing. And then I realized, like, oh, like, I'm scared of this relationship because of X, Y and Z in my childhood. So I really think that that was. So once I was able to really work through that, then I realized, like, no, like, I am ready for this. And once I said I'm ready, like, within a couple months, like, boom, it happened. But I really, like, was ready and not ready because I needed it to fulfill me or validate me or make me feel. It wasn't that. It was just like, I was like, I built a great life and career for myself. Like, I want to share this with someone, right?
- [68:50]
B
There's this other piece that, you know, I need, but it doesn't fulfill me. It's just one extra thing in my life right now.
- [68:59]
A
And my mom's never dated since my dad. And so she was always, like, never dated? No, she always. She was like one guy when I was like, too, but she was always like, you fulfill yourself, your career, your friends, you like me. Like, these things, fulfill myself. Like, I'm so happy and like everything is an additive, like a boyfriend or anything. And she was just like, I just don't need it. And I remember growing up, people are like, even your reaction, you're like, what the. Which is like, it is kind of. It's crazy. And that's also like, I think that I've always said, like, you have to get to a place where you're really comfortable being by yourself. And like, and because when you're being alone doesn't mean being lonely. Like, not being in a relationship doesn't mean you're alone. Like, you have all these friends, you have family, you have your career, you have so many things in your Life. So it's about that perspective. But, yeah, no, to this day, like, she's not interested. She's like, I don't want to put up with a man's. I was like, damn, girl, you right.
- [69:48]
B
That is. Your dad was that difficult? That's amazing. No, I think just in general. Yeah.
- [69:54]
A
That generation. Yeah.
- [69:55]
B
Yeah. And it's actually rare of her generation to have a career that she still is working. I mean, like, a lot of women from our parents generation did not work because they're like, you don't need to. And there was middle class back then, so now it's kind of a little harder to do that. You said you weren't ready for a relationship, but you also said at one point that you were really good. And I think this was on Felix's podcast, that you were really good about not going back to people that had left you or you left. Like, once you were done, you were done. I think the analogy was. I was like, this is genius.
- [70:26]
A
Spoiled milk.
- [70:27]
B
Spoiled milk. It's like you trying to go back to a relationship is trying to make spoiled milk unspoiled. Like, putting it back in the fridge and hoping it'll, like, automatically uncutle itself. But, like, how. How do you. Because so many people have a difficult time not going back to an ex because they feel like there's unfinished business. Like, no, there's. There's never.
- [70:46]
A
It's not like, yes, okay, maybe the once in a blue moon. It's been 10 years, and you're different people. But I think, like, I did that. My first love, I did that.
- [70:54]
B
So you did go back. That was my question.
- [70:55]
A
It's like, did you go back and learn my lesson? Okay, I went back and we slept together. He kind of, like, how old were you? So it was like, I got dumped at a wedding. It wasn't mine, but I was dumped at, like, my boyfriend at the Time's wedding. It was like, right out of college. He was my college boyfriend, my first love, and he went back to school. Cause he was younger than me. And then we also.
- [71:18]
B
Men have awful timing. Like, Lindsay got dumped on her birthday. You got dumped at a wedding.
- [71:23]
A
And crazy.
- [71:23]
B
Whatever.
- [71:24]
A
You could have just. So good.
- [71:26]
B
Yes.
- [71:26]
A
And so then he was back in the city, and we slept together. And then it was texting, and then it was like, oh, should we get back together? And. And then I, like, booked a flight to see him at Duke, and then he was like, wait, like, don't come. Like, I'm seeing someone and he's actually engaged. That Girl, which is so funny. But all good, super happy for him and her.
- [71:47]
B
Yeah, Literally, like, it's also been like 10 years, but it's like.
- [71:53]
A
I remember, like, the first time I got broken up with, it was like I felt like I was drowning. The second time, it was an unexplainable feeling. It was just like, like ripping a scab open and, like, literally, like your guts are oozing out. Like, it just was the worst feeling ever. And I literally just vowed I was like, this. Like, you just can't go back. Like, this is like, of course this happened. Like, we broke up for a reason. Like, the relationship is broken for a reason. Like, it's called breakups because they're broken. And I think, like, the idea of going back means that you want the validation, you want the ego, you. You want the sex, which is totally all valid things, but, like, what you need to realize is, like, you're just wasting time. And I think, like, I don't know if it's like the Aries in me, but I'm like, obsessed with time and, like, how you spend time. And I think, like, it's a currency you'll never get back. So literally you're just delaying the inevitable, which is you're not going to be together and you're going to get over them. So why wouldn't you just start the process now? Like, the second someone leaves your life, it's like, fuck, but fine. And. And I think, like, it's harder with a breakup because people have been like, it's. It's harder, like, when you're actually in a relationship with someone, but when it's the, like, one, two, three or four month dates or like, the situation chips of it all, I'm like, those are.
- [73:06]
B
The worst when they're.
- [73:07]
A
They show you who they are right at the beginning. Felix showed me exactly who he was from the first interaction. He got me a car, he checked in on me. He was there waiting for me. He's such a gentleman. He was just. He took care of me. He made me feel safe. He was. From the beginning, like, I can't tell you, like, all these dates and situations have been. You can know from the moment you start talking to them who they are and how they're going to treat you.
- [73:28]
B
If you have to wonder, then it's a no.
- [73:30]
A
Oh, forget 100%, but walk away. Like.
- [73:33]
B
Like, it's just like, you know, that's the scarcity mindset. That's women's scarcity mindset coming into play. It's like, I'm never going to do better than what I had. And he wasn't all terrible.
- [73:43]
A
But so like, we're settling, we're not selling. And that's why like, I, I, I, I'll die on this hill. Like, you can't settle and stop going back to trust. You're just wasting time.
- [73:52]
B
I always think it's like, if you have to ask me a, a stranger that like, you know, my followers. I'm like, if you have to ask me for my opinion on whether. Yeah, you have your answer.
- [74:02]
A
So you know what I do?
- [74:03]
B
Yeah.
- [74:03]
A
As a way to like. Because I really respond to like almost all my dms, but I, I can't is sometimes I'll just be like, I'll copy and paste what they write me. And I go, what if I do this and they write me a fucking paragraph? I go, see? I'm like, you knew. You know, it's easier when you're not talking about yourself. Right? And that's why I always, with confidence, I'm like, talk to yourself like your best friend. Like you would hype them up if they, you know, didn't get a promotion. You'd be like, yeah, you're fucking stupid. Like, you'd be like, fuck that. Like you'll get it with time or whatever. If a guy ghosts you, you're not gonna be like, oh yeah, you're so ugly. You'd be like, that guy's a loser. By like, he doesn't, he's not your person.
- [74:36]
B
Right.
- [74:37]
A
It's like, we're so good to our best friends, but not to ourself. And so that's kind of, it's almost.
- [74:42]
B
Like we reject ourselves before anybody else reject, Rejects us.
- [74:45]
A
Yeah.
- [74:45]
B
Out of fear.
- [74:46]
A
And so it's about like unlearning that and treating yourself with that kindness.
- [74:49]
B
This is back to the question. First of all, I find it so interesting that your mom has never dated since your dad.
- [74:55]
A
One guy. I should probably want me to say that, but like barely.
- [74:58]
B
Okay, that in how long it's been 30 years or 28 actually, because you're 30 now, so. Yeah, it's been 28 years. She's dated one man. I think that's a pretty good track record.
- [75:07]
A
Incredible. No dick, no vibes.
- [75:12]
B
You can buy dick now. Literally. But this idea of being self sufficient and you have people in your life and you're alone. Right. Cause you're not married or in a conventional committed relationship. I feel like you're either in one of two camps as a woman sometimes it's like I know women who are like, I've always wanted to be a mom. I grew up with the baby dolls. I knew that was what I wanted. And I like my career, but one day, if I had to give it all up to be a stay at home mom, wouldn't think about it, you know, twice. And I'm like, pregnancy, I don't know. You froze your eggs.
- [75:46]
A
I did. I also want to say that like my mom like had a fully beautiful. She's still there, like, incredible career. Would work until like 6, 6:30pm, like juggled. I never felt like she was neglecting me, abandoning me. I think like, it helped that like my parents, I was there every other night.
- [76:02]
B
But like, but she did it all.
- [76:04]
A
She did it all. And like, I think it's important to have a partner or a co parent that like, is there for you. She also didn't have family. Like all of, like, I think that now when I have kids, like, it'll be a different situation. Like, she's like, she's, she always says, like, I'm like, what are you gonna do after you leave Paramount? She's like, I'll either, I'll either work for you or take care of your kids while you work. And I literally like obsessed, which is.
- [76:28]
B
A very immigrant thing.
- [76:29]
A
But it's just like, I feel that concept of like, you either are a stay at home mom or not. It's just like, no, that's not real. But I understand what you're saying and I, I even say like with the kids conversation, I mean, I'm dating someone six years younger than me who's not remotely ready to have children yet. Like, he wants to build his career and I'm super supportive of that. I also want to make a movie. And like that to me is like, I can't have a kid until I make a movie. Because that is a whole baby that I need to like birth. And it's a very long, arduous process. And I feel like after that I could maybe have the conversation. But this is like years down the line. And so, yeah, I froze my eggs twice. Like, it was a really great decision. It gave me a lot of. It's not 100% effective. Like nothing in life is. But it just gave me this sense of like, calm. Like I didn't feel like this ticking time bomb.
- [77:15]
B
Yeah.
- [77:16]
A
About having to have kids.
- [77:17]
B
A lot of my friends who've done it have said it feels like we've sort of leveled the playing field with men.
- [77:22]
A
Literally, Literally.
- [77:23]
B
Men don't feel that they're like, it's.
- [77:24]
A
Crazy that they don't feel that, like, it's so annoying. And you realize it especially. I definitely feel like since I've turned 30, it's more on my mind of like, huh. Like, before it was like, yeah, one day I'll have kids. But now it's kind of like, maybe we need to, like, do a little, like, planning, right? Like, what does that look like? Like, that's just something that I've been thinking about also. Your. Our friends are having kids. Like, that's, that's another thing too. But I definitely think, like, you know, if you have the financial means to freeze your eggs, like, you absolutely should. Like, I really do. I, I, I think it's like the.
- [77:57]
B
Most famous thing you can do fully. My husband's six years older than me, and it's still, he's like, it's when you're ready. It is not about, you know, and.
- [78:05]
A
So it's like, it sucks. Like, it's so annoying. It's literally so annoying. And it's just like, it's annoying that it's so expensive. And I feel like that's why I'm so vocal about it, because I think, you know, it shouldn't be, it should be really accessible for every woman. But, like, if every woman could freeze her eggs, like, the patriarchy would burn. Like, it just would. Because it's like when I posted every. All my videos about freezing my eggs, like, you know, typically you get shit from women, but it was the men. Men were so angry that I was freezing my eggs. I was like, what are you. Like, you don't even know what this is. You probably think this is ivf.
- [78:34]
B
Do you know what an egg is?
- [78:36]
A
Literally, like, so it's just like, I'm like, they definitely know where the clit is. I have no idea. But it's just like, they were so angry. And it's true. It's like, I understand why. It's like, it's, it's just going against convention and like, you know, this idea of, like, the patriarchy.
- [78:51]
B
You know, it's funny, I was talking to my girlfriend about this because I have very. I want to be a parent. I know that. But I don't want to be pregnant. Like, in an ideal world, I would have a surrogate and everything, but there's a lot of research and time. There's a lot that goes behind a surrogate. It's not just like, you find it's almost like, harder than getting pregnant.
- [79:10]
A
My friends have done it.
- [79:11]
B
It's hard it's hard.
- [79:12]
A
Also, why the aversion to pregnancy?
- [79:14]
B
I just don't. My mom had a horrible pregnancy with me, was really sick. She was like, couldn't work. And I really want to work throughout my pregnancy.
- [79:21]
A
But I don't think that just because your mom had that experience, you.
- [79:23]
B
No, I know it's not guaranteed. Nothing is guaranteed. But I'm also just like, I'm really not. Like, I don't feel like I need that experience to feel like a mom or a woman.
- [79:33]
A
You don't.
- [79:33]
B
I probably will have my own kid because I'm too, like, type A to, like, let that into anybody else's. But one of my girlfriends was saying, she was like, you know, if men were the ones who could get pregnant and were the ones who had to have babies, we would be growing children inside sacks and labs right now. Like, you know, we wouldn't need a human being to give because your body gets really. You know, I've had so many friends of mine who said that the pregnancy itself actually wasn't terrible. But then afterwards, the hormonal shit, like, the mental. I'm like, I am already anxious and depressed. What is.
- [80:07]
A
I'm dead. I, like, I really see it as, like, the most amazing thing, like, your body could do. Like, why I.
- [80:14]
B
You.
- [80:14]
A
I love to experience everything. Like, I jumped out of a plane. I bungee jumped. I'm fucking giving birth. Like, I'm doing it. Like, I want to see what the vibes are. Like, I want to see what's up. Like, I want to push a little bitch out. Like, let's fucking go.
- [80:25]
B
So you want to be my surrogate?
- [80:26]
A
Like, literally, you have to pay a half deep penny for this.
- [80:31]
B
No, but, yeah, but it's a lot. It's like. And you. Some women want that experience. I'm like, I'm okay. I'm like, okay. You know, I love my dog. And I'm like, I didn't give birth to her, but I feel like I did.
- [80:41]
A
I think that that is. You're just as much of a. Like, Kim Kardashian, like, had a surrogate. That doesn't mean she's not less. Like, I think that that's fine. Caring or not. I just think it's like, I just noticed, like, we're all having kids later. Oh, 100% after choosing. Like, everyone is for the most part. And so it's like, What?
- [80:59]
B
Yeah, I'm 33. Most of my friends are either 33 or older. The only people that have kids are, like, 37 and up. Everyone Else my age is like, either just got married and they're just trying to enjoy being married before children or not married or single, you know. And it's so interesting because at this age, my mom had me when she was 26.
- [81:22]
A
Oh, really? My mom had me when she was 35. Which is also why I'm like, that.
- [81:25]
B
Is very unconventional for that. For that time.
- [81:29]
A
But she was a career woman. That's why she had two careers, essentially.
- [81:33]
B
And it's cool because she had it all before women were told that they could have it all.
- [81:38]
A
But to be honest, the reason why I froze my ex was I always knew I was going to freeze my ex, like, regardless of, like, whether I always knew because my mom. Mom was like, I wish I could have, like. I think that's why, like, I mean, it's obviously all great. Like, I love my dad and, like, amazing that they had me imperfect. But I think that if she were. Would have been given the opportunity to freeze, I don't know if she would have actually had a kid with my dad. You know what I mean? I think it was a time where she think they were dating. She was like, I need to have a kid. And he was 30. He wasn't ready. He was just starting his career. I don't think he was, like, really, really ready. Although it was the best thing that happened to him. So I'm slay, but I think there was this pride that that's why she.
- [82:13]
B
Was older than your dad.
- [82:14]
A
Yeah. Or is older than 6 years older than my dad. Wait, that is like, me too.
- [82:18]
B
We all turn into our parents, don't we? That is crazy.
- [82:21]
A
I told my mom I would be down in her.
- [82:22]
B
Does Felix remind you of your dad?
- [82:24]
A
Not at all.
- [82:24]
B
Okay.
- [82:25]
A
Like, literally not at all. Like, I've dated my dad already.
- [82:28]
B
All right, great.
- [82:29]
A
And check that box. You know, like, you do the whole thing.
- [82:31]
B
I've got over the daddy issues there.
- [82:32]
A
Fully, but yeah, no, that. That's. That's why I think that if you're. I. I froze them single, and then I froze them when I was in a relationship. So twice. And I just remember, like, when I was single, like, it did give me this feeling of, like, control. And so if you're someone who likes to feel in control and you don't feel in control with your dating life, it's an expensive way to feel in control, but it does. You do feel that way. I froze my exit Spring Fertility. And if you use the code SFK, I think you get like 150 off of your consult. So I had the best experience there, and I want to plug them, because that doctor's fertility office is as if, like, credit Gerwig, like, wrote it. Like, it feels like, hi, Barbie. It feels like the most loving, like, feminine place I've ever been to. And, like, in a really beautiful, safe way that I wish every doctor's office had. And I love. My friends are doctors, but I was, like, taken aback with how much they care about you. And, like, as they should. You're paying a ton of money, but a lot of places don't they treat you like, you know, you're in just another client for them. Like, they call you, they check in on you. I had such a great experience with them. So, like, if you're interested to learn more, you should.
- [83:39]
B
I personally believe that success and rejection are two sides of the same coin and that the people who find success are the ones who use their rejection to fuel them. What's one of the most, like, significant rejections you've had in your life that you felt was pivotal to where you are now?
- [83:58]
A
Oh, my God.
- [83:59]
B
Whether it's a relationship or professional or.
- [84:01]
A
Anything, I agree with this tenfold. I just watched the Tom Brady roast. I didn't realize that he was the sixth draft pick.
- [84:08]
B
And, like, literally was like, everyone counted him out, and he was like, okay.
- [84:13]
A
I was, like, obsessed. Two things. One, when I was in high school, when I was a freshman, I dated a boy who was a junior, and I was obsessed with him, and he, like, was really whack and, like, dumped me for, like, his ex girlfriend, friend, spoiled milk. But, like, he went back and it wrecked me, and I made a movie about it, and that movie is called Freshman, and it won best film at my film festival in my high school. And he was actually in the program, too. He didn't win it and changed my life. I was like, I'm going to be a filmmaker. And so I feel like. I mean, that was when I was 15. Like, that moment. But, like, really being this woman, to have the agency to write, direct, produce, edit, film this film, film, and then be, like, awarded. I've never. I never won anything. Like, I never won anything. Growing up, I was so bad at every sport. I was like, I just. Like, I didn't have. I just. This was my thing. And I had to win best film.
- [85:07]
B
You found yourself?
- [85:08]
A
I found myself. So that was one. The second one was right before the pandemic. I really wanted to leave Refinery 29. I was there for three and a half years as a producer, and I didn't know what my next step was. I went to la, I had an interview at E. News to be a correspondent of some show. And I came in with so many thoughts and, like, really, like, I watched movies, I had so many, like, and when they are there, like, all you need to do, like, whatever you, you know, prepared, forget. Like, all you need to do is read this prompter and you're going to be with a girl who's, like, also auditioning with you and is your co host. I could not read the prompter. Like, I could not. I. Like, I literally was an English major bitch. Like, I literally could not read. Like, I literally, like, suddenly could not read the whole environment. It just wasn't for me. Like, I just couldn't. And I remember just sobbing, being like, this was my one fucking opportunity to get out of Refinery and, like, to be on camera. And. And honestly, like, the pandemic happened like, a month later. That show got canceled. Like, imagine me moving to la, like, stuck in the lockdown, like, and then I built my empire and everything. You know what I'm saying? So it's just like, in that moment, it felt like this was my one opportunity. Like, it not happening was the best thing to ever happen to me.
- [86:17]
B
That's amazing because we wouldn't have you. We wouldn't have you currently are.
- [86:21]
A
We wouldn't. I would have been working. You know what I mean? Like, who even knows, right? So it's like. And even with Refinery 29, like, I wanted to have my own show and I busted my ass. Like, I wanted to be one of the stars back then because there were a lot and they didn't take me seriously. Like, they didn't see what I could see in myself. And I was like, no one's going to believe in me as much as I believe myself. And that's why I left. And it's like, again, that was a. Like, if you look at it, like, that's why it's about reprogramming your fucking brain and being like, this isn't a rejection, this is a movement. You're a Google map getting rerouted to your next destination. So if you can see it like that, that it doesn't necessarily have to be a positive, but maybe a neutral. Like, you're just getting pushed somewhere else and you're going to find out what it is. It might not be for a year, months, it might not be for a week, but, like, you're going somewhere else for a reason. Oh, my God. It, like, saves you a lot of stress, anxiety, and tears.
- [87:09]
B
I think that's amazing. I feel like I just attended a sermon. Like a non denominational one.
- [87:14]
A
SFK's your religion. But thank you.
- [87:18]
B
That was incredible. So where can people find you on socials before your film comes out?
- [87:23]
A
Comes out before I finish writing it. Serena Kerrigan on everything. Let's fucking date dot com. I brought you a card game.
- [87:30]
B
Love it.
- [87:30]
A
And you can play with your husband, have the best sex of your life. And this is amazing. I'm so proud of you. You're born to do this. You're amazing.
- [87:38]
B
Thank you so much. Thanks for coming on. Yes.
- [87:41]
A
Hey. Hey. I'm Ryan Reynolds. At Mint Mobile, we like to do the opposite of what big wireless does. They charge you a lot, we charge you a little. So naturally, when they announced they'd be raising their prices due to inflation, we decided to deflate our prices due to not hating you. That's right. We're cutting the price of mint unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a try@mintmobile.com switch. $45 upfront payment equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only. Taxes and fees. Extra Speed slower above 40 gigabytes. C details.