15 MOST IMPORTANT BILLS, not named Josh Allen

Summary

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Buffalo Plus Podcast | "15 MOST IMPORTANT BILLS, Not Named Josh Allen"

Date: July 9, 2024
Hosts: Jenna Cottrell & Mike Catalana (Dan Fetes on vacation)

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Episode Overview

In this lively, insider-rich episode, Jenna and Mike run through their respective lists of the "15 Most Important Buffalo Bills" for the upcoming 2024 season—excluding QB Josh Allen. The duo shares exclusive observations from the offseason, delves into leadership shifts, and debates the critical roles players must fill in the wake of roster changes. While exploring both offense and defense, they balance football analysis with locker-room personality insights, and add plenty of the show’s trademark humor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Josh Allen’s Evolving Leadership and Offseason Bonding

• [02:06 – 07:20]
  The episode opens with analysis of a viral clip showing Josh Allen and Bills receivers working out together at Vanderbilt—outside official team activities.
  • Significance: Both express how, in recent years, Allen attended all team-required workouts but rarely organized his own off-books events.
  • Jenna: “It’s nice because the coaches aren’t there… there’s kind of freedom and creativity. I think there’s a lot of upside.”
  • Mike: “He’s the franchise... but I wanted to see one of these ‘get all the guys together with Josh’ moments.”
  • Implication: The move is praised as a sign of Allen’s evolving, proactive leadership and team chemistry building—something the co-hosts hope becomes a new norm.

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2. The Exercise: Ranking the 15 Most Important Bills (Excluding Allen)

• [08:09 – 55:00]
  The heart of the episode is a detailed, counted-down list.
  • Approach: Mike factors positional value, coaching/depth, and reliability. Jenna centers on “guys who need to make an impact in 2024.” Lists are compared in real-time for debate/conflict.
  • Listener Engagement: The hosts directly encourage listeners to submit their own lists and take issue where appropriate.

Players & Reasoning: Key Debates

(All timestamps approximate and discussion bounces between list items frequently)

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• Secondary & Defensive Backs

• Rasul Douglas (#15 Mike, #13 Jenna) [10:24 – 11:56]
  • Praised for instant impact after trade, knack for splash plays, and being “an aggressive player.”
  • Jenna: "You saw his ability and consistently how he made those big plays."
• Christian Benford (#12 Both) [18:56 – 20:46]
  • Noted as a “football player… a McDermott guy” who earned his starting role.

• Wide Receivers

• Keon Coleman (#15 Jenna) [12:35 – 13:47]
  • Rookie pressure to step up post-Diggs & Davis departures: “He doesn’t need to be amazing… just someone dependable and showing progress.”
• Khalil Shakir (#10 Both) [27:33 – 29:01]
  • Risks of “expectations getting too high,” but high praise for work ethic and YAC (yards after catch) improvement. “A coach’s dream.”
• Curtis Samuel (#9 Mike) [31:41 – 32:53]
  • Seen as most accomplished WR on the roster; strong history with OC Joe Brady should mean “a legitimate amount of touches.”
• Justin Shorter (Honorable Mention) [13:47 – 14:19]
  • “A great story if it works out.”

• Offensive Line

• Dion Dawkins (#9 Jenna, #6 Mike) [33:07 – 34:24]
  • “Plays hard, leads in his own Dion way, anchors the line.”
• Conor McGovern (#6 Jenna, #5 Mike) [39:26 – 41:51]
  • Pressure of shifting to center after Mitch Morse’s exit: “There are bumps, but I have hope for a ‘seamless progression.’”
• Osirus Torrence (Hon. Mention) [40:54 – 41:17]
  • "Impressive rookie season, just solid.”

• Running Back & Specialists

• James Cook (#4 Jenna, #11 Mike) [21:09 – 23:13]
  • Jenna: “His ability can change how the Bills approach things.”
  • Ball security needs to improve.
• Tyler Bass (Kicker, #11 Jenna) [24:10 – 25:57]
  • “Needs to be better,” with the caveat that the team won’t hesitate to move on for poor performance.
  • Mike: “If he’s not good, there’ll be an 8-year vet as Bills kicker soon.”

• Defensive Front Seven

• DaQuan Jones (#14 Jenna) [15:17 – 17:29]
  • “A man whooping another man”—vital to Ed Oliver & D-line synergy.
• Greg Rousseau (#8 Jenna, #7 Mike) [36:35 – 39:22]
  • “Need him to bring more edge and double-digit sacks… they have faith in this guy.”
• Matt Milano (#8 Mike, #7 Jenna) [34:30 – 36:27]
  • If healthy, “hard to find a better LB pair than Milano & Bernard.”
• Terrel Bernard (#5 Jenna, #3 Mike) [42:49 – 44:11]
  • Unsung star who “became much more than anyone expected,” and "a McDermott favorite."
  • Mike recalls: Dan Fetes correctly predicted his emergence as MLB:

    “I’m gonna make a prediction right now—one year from now, starting middle linebacker for this team is Terrell Bernard.” (43:09)

• Ed Oliver (#3 Jenna, #4 Mike) [44:25 – 45:39]
  • “Played even better after his contract… plays with joy and is massive for the D-line.”

• Taron Johnson & Dalton Kincaid—Top Tier

• Taron Johnson (#2 Both) [46:00 – 47:25]
  • “Safety blanket” and now a leader with secondary undergoing generational shift. On field “so often you forget anyone else could play nickel.”
  • Jenna: “He is just so good—it’s hard to overstate.”
• Dalton Kincaid (#1 Both) [48:28 – 50:24]
  • The passing game will be “Kincaid-focused,” banking on his chemistry with Allen (a la Mahomes/Kelce) for mismatches and red-zone touchdowns.
  • Mike: “He’s going to be the focal point of the offense. He’s got to be ready.”

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3. Who Got Left Off?

[50:40 – 55:07]

• Vets & Depth: Osirus Torrence (OL), Taylor Rapp (S), Von Miller, AJ Epenesa didn’t make their lists, although their potential contributions are discussed.
• Von Miller: His self-evaluation (“shouldn’t have played,” post-ACL) sparks debate over player vs. staff responsibility.
  • Jenna: “I wish he’d taken more accountability… he put the narrative out there.”
  • Mike: “At a certain point, Father Time is undefeated… but he could still have a huge impact in the right role.”

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4. Listener Engagement & Memorable Moments

[55:58 – End]

• Comment of the Week (from 'Mafia Sport Report'):
  “Von Miller put pressure on himself in 2023 by saying he will be on the field week one... I do think we'll see a better Von in 2024.”
  • Praised as “measured, even-keeled, right on the money” by Mike.
• Recurring Humor:
  • Running jokes about s’mores, Dan’s contrarian takes, and family cameos.
  • Mike: “You see a man built like a refrigerator box, that is my father [at camp].”
• Upcoming: Training camp excitement, anticipation, and advice to enter the ticket lottery now!

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Josh Allen’s Leadership Evolution:

  “I think it’s an encouraging sign … in years past, we haven’t really seen that as much in the offseason.”
  —Jenna, [04:37]

• DaQuan Jones as Tone-Setter:

  “It’s about a man whooping another man.”
  —DaQuan Jones quote, [15:24]

• Terrel Bernard’s Out-of-nowhere Rise:

  “I’m gonna make a prediction right now. One year from now, starting middle linebacker for this team is going to be Terrell Bernard.”
  —Dan Fetes, via Mike, [43:09]

• On Dalton Kincaid’s Role:

  “He’s going to be the focal point of the offense. He’s got to be ready.”
  —Mike, [50:24]

• Taron Johnson’s Steadiness:

  “You don’t even think about [someone else playing nickel] … he’s so good, it’s just automatic.”
  —Jenna, [46:31]

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Top 5 Most Important Bills (per hosts, consensus)

1. Dalton Kincaid (TE)
2. Taron Johnson (CB/Nickel)
3. Ed Oliver (DT) / Terrel Bernard (LB)
4. Ed Oliver / James Cook (RB)
5. Terrel Bernard / Conor McGovern (C)

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Episode Takeaways

• Chemistry and veteran steadiness—especially in the secondary after the departure of franchise stalwarts—is a recurring theme.
• Youth on offense (Keon Coleman, Dalton Kincaid) is paired with expectations for proven vets (Dawkins, Milano, Oliver) to lead and stabilize.
• The team’s success may hinge most on how well the new center/WR corps support Allen, and whether defensive leadership emerges.
• Listener discussion encouraged: The hosts want your picks and disagreements!

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For more Bills insights, camp updates, and podcast episodes, subscribe to Buffalo Plus on YouTube.

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

We're walking from the far field at camp and we're walking back and Dan stops and he goes, I'm going to make a prediction right now. One year from now.

[A]

Starting this is the open.

[B]

The starting middle linebacker for this team is going to be Terrell Bernard. This is the Buffalo plus podcast brought.

[A]

To you by Connors and Ferris. Welcome Back to the Buffalo Plus YouTube channel, presented by Connors and Ferris. Mike Catalana. I am Jenna Castrel, the host of Buffalo Plus.

[B]

Oh, the host.

[A]

Well, I wasn't here last week.

[B]

Yeah, Dan took over the role.

[A]

Dan took over his role. Dan is on vacation.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And in honor of Dan, I wore my tightest muscle teeth trying here. No. Please be sure to, like, comment and subscribe to the channel as well. Subscribe as Cher. We always appreciate it. All right, so we're going to talk a little bit about Josh Allen and some of the wide receivers look like they ran routes with one another in the off season. Not Bills assigned, just Josh Allen doing his thing as well as we have the 15 top players on the Bills not named Josh Allen. So we both made a list.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We did not talk about the list. Never before. So we'll have our.

[B]

Have our lists.

[A]

Have our list.

[B]

Okay. We're going to create drama. It's 15 to one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Building up. Josh Allen is above one.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I was like, what? He's God tier.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

All right, so let's jump into first, we saw a video. KJ Hamler put a video out of that video.

[B]

I like the other video better.

[A]

Oh. Of at Dawson Knox's wedding. Congratulations to the them. Looked beautiful. Looked like a lot of fun. And it looked like the Bills. The bros look like they were having an amazing time.

[B]

Like any guy watching. You've been at a wedding with one of your buddies. You've looked just like Josh Allen and his friends.

[A]

Just guys being dudes.

[B]

They were having fun.

[A]

Say, you could tell that was a fun wedding.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

The other video I Was talking about. Yeah, the other video, KJ Hamler. I saw it on Twitter. You probably did, too. If you just search X, you'll see it. But KJ Hamler, with a handful of other players, actually, I'd probably say like 10, maybe Josh Allen was there. Looked like it was at Vanderbilt. Looked like they were all kind of chatting after they had just worked out together, ran routes, something like that. What is your take on seeing Josh Allen and the wide receivers having a moment like that or having something that wasn't the bill set up, but them on their own doing it?

[B]

First take. KJ Handler's a horrific photographer and, you know, bad photography.

[A]

Is the camera operator. For the record.

[B]

I'm the second worst. KJ is number one. I don't know what he was shooting anyhow. It was like a no.

[A]

1.

[B]

Okay, I'll keep that title. We have a new camera now. I'm going to be really good, actually.

[A]

The new camera, real quick is really cool. We'll be able to do a lot more content. Hashtag content. But especially with training camp coming up.

[B]

All right, can I get to my point?

[A]

So Chatty Dan's not here. He can't hold me down.

[B]

Listen, we like this from Josh.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

He hasn't done this. I say this all the time. He's an incredible player. He's the franchise. Shows up at every ota. He's a mandatory camp. That's Josh. So he works. But I want. I wanted to see one of these, like, I don't know, Jim, get all the guys together with Josh, go throw the ball around a little bit. A little bit of team bonding with the wide receivers or those players.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it just hasn't really been the case for different reasons. Again, Josh is always there. He's tight with all the players. It's not about him not relating to them. I just wanted to say it, and it looks like at least somewhat that worked out, it all got together.

[A]

I think it's an encouraging sign because in years past, we haven't really seen that as much in the off season. But don't get me wrong. Josh went to every ota, Right. He's gone to mandatory minicamp. But he's talked about this offseason in particular, like, the evolution of him as a leader. And I think this kind of goes to show that, like, yeah, that is an important step of being like, hey, guys, I know we have training camp in two and a half weeks, but let's do this. Let's get everyone in. And I think it is like some People might be like, cool, they ran routes. I think it's nice because the coaches aren't there. And I mean that in a good way. Like, training camp is so structured. There's periods for everything. There's kind of everything has been already assigned. Whereas this is way more free. Free flip, free, free flowing. Thank you. But I think there is a real upside to that because there's also the opportunity for these guys to just, you know, shoot the breeze type of thing without coaches there. And I think that does matter.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I. I don't Almost landed the plane.

[B]

Yeah, it was close, rocky, but it hit the ground. I. Maybe I overthink it sometimes, but I'd be like, you can picture a player. We mentioned Hamler, but it could be any of these guys. Especially, you know, they're like, hey, Josh Allen just texted me and said, we're all getting together, let's come out and do some stuff. He's Josh Allen. You know, we're so used to him. As great of a player as he is, we're used to him being a very approachable guy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He's still Josh Allen around the league. Like, you hear the way people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If he wasn't so. And listen, I think, I think Mahomes is pretty approachable with his teammates. It's. And he's got a higher stature with the Super Bowls then you got guys like, you know, Rogers and whatever they are, you know. But I look at Allen, I'm like, you know, you got Burrow Allen. Those guys are thought of a certain way. And I think when they take a little of that extra time, it means some of the players, it could be running routes for a couple hours and going to get beers and wings. It's fine with love. It doesn't have to be four day camp where you're running gassers here. It can just be like, like be together as a team.

[A]

Yeah. I love it. I think it's like that's exactly what it. It doesn't have to be this hugely structured thing of like, we're going to do this. And then we're like, it gives the opportunity for there to be some leeway and create creativity and just like again, the free. I shouldn't say, I shouldn't even try to free. Free flowing. But my point in that is just, I think there's a lot of upside in doing something like that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was happy to see Josh Allen do it just because in years past he went on busing with the boys and he said, you know, he doesn't really do much in the off season before.

[B]

I think his line was, I don't do anything.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Which I think he was being a little. On the podcast. I do nothing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because he does go to all the OTAs. And I'm sure he works out.

[A]

Yeah, I think he. He works out. He definitely works out.

[B]

Right?

[A]

He works out.

[B]

He swings the golf club, man.

[A]

Damn. He's good at that.

[B]

And then he's ready to go. So that's what you want out of him. But I thought it was kind of cool. It was in. At Vanderbilt, so it was in Nashville. Might have been around the wedding. Maybe he's like, hey, we're gonna be there.

[A]

I don't know enough about where the wedding was, but I was thinking, because he's. Yeah, no. Yeah. For Dawson Knox. Regardless though, liked it. Encouraged by it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Another step as a leader. All those great things. Okay, let's talk about our lists. We have the top 10.

[B]

15.

[A]

Top 15.

[B]

My list is free flowing.

[A]

Oh, my God. Like how I circle back to that. Like. No, you can get it this time. Nope, you can't. Okay. This was not free throwing.

[B]

Free.

[A]

I tried it. Okay, so. So let's start with you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So I put my list together a little bit. When I would look at the players, I just wrote down 20 some odd players. And then I. I sort of eliminated a few. And then when I started to put them in order, I thought about positions. Not just the important positions in terms of it, but also I. I gave a little edge to the coaching staff.

[A]

In certain spots, I would imagine, specifically the defense.

[B]

Defense and the secondary. Just because they've been so good at coaching players up. The reason I say that is you'll see in my list, like there's certain positions that I had higher up on the list because they are depth. You don't want to really see the depth on the field.

[A]

You know, what is the mark line?

[B]

Great thing until you have to use it.

[A]

It's perfect.

[B]

So I'm talking about O line. So I valued the O line that way a little bit more the individual players, because, hey, if they could, each of those offensive linemen would play every snap of every game. That's the way it works. So just a little bit like that when I put my list together.

[A]

So when I put together my list, I was thinking more of which players need to make an impact in 2024, like which guys the Bills need to be good.

[B]

Yeah, I agree with that. That's definitely part of what I was thinking. I just. When I tried to maneuver it. Listen, they had some pretty good players.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It wasn't like this was not. It's not easy. And we want you guys put down your list, too. Put your own 15 or.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

@ least where you thought we had somebody too high or too low when you hear what we're talking about. But, you know, they. They have solid rosters on both sides of the ball.

[A]

They're not like players on this roster.

[B]

There are players. Yes.

[A]

The greatest quote of all time players on this roster. Okay, you start.

[B]

All right, 15. I have Rasool Douglas.

[A]

Douglas.

[B]

I like him. I like him in his role.

[A]

It's a good pick. I had him in 13.

[B]

Okay. So. And he's a guy like we joke about. He did well last year not knowing the defense. I mean, it's hilarious. First of all, the guy's a great talker. I'm looking forward to talking to him more this year. But he was basically like, yeah, I just asked Poe where I was supposed to be drawing Jordan Poyer, and then I just went out and played. He's not afraid to make plays. He's an aggressive player. He joked about. Did he joke that he didn't even know he was in a contract year?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Whether he thinks it, doesn't think it. I don't think he really cares, though.

[A]

No. I think when you're. That you're playing at that great of a level, you're like, someone. Some team is going to want me, which I truly believe that is absolutely case. But you make the joke of, like, him not knowing the defense now with him knowing it, the opportunity for just all those splash plays that we saw.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's just he is definitely someone that is massively impactful and someone that I would expect to have, you know, after coming off of last year, another huge season for the Bills because you saw his ability and consistently how he was able to make those big plays.

[B]

Yeah, he's a. He's an aggressive player. Other teams never really took advantage of that. I'm going to guess with a little more tape and another year of him in this system, he's going to have to be on the lookout for that. But I like him as a player, so I had him. 15. Where are you going?

[A]

I also think too just touching back on the Rasool Douglas, you can tell a lot when a player is traded. The response from fans and Green Bay fans were really confused, upset. Like, they really were huge fans of what Rasul Douglas's game was. So I think that does say a lot.

[B]

It's Kind of funny at the time deadline, they're dealing one of their better defensive backs.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then they could have gone to the Super Bowl.

[A]

I know.

[B]

I mean, they had, you know, they were good. No, they were good.

[A]

I'm curious to see what Jordan Love will be this year.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, he was. He closed really strong.

[A]

Yeah. Smaller.

[B]

Little smaller sample, but yeah. Yeah, we'll say.

[A]

All right. So for me, the number 15 on my list of most important Bills players that need to make an impact this season, that's how. How I interpreted the. The prompt. I have Keon Coleman, and there's a lot of new wide receivers on this team. Absolutely. I just think for the Bills, trading away Stefan Diggs, Gabe Divis no longer being in the building. I think the reason Keon Coleman needs to be. I don't even think he needs to be, like, amazing. I just think you need to see that he is a competent guy that continues to make progress and someone that could be a dependable playmaker on this team because they only drafted one wide receiver. And that is something that, if it works out, amazing, great. He's a guy that, you know, can. Is a mismatch on other teams against their defenses. Amazing. I just think that for me, I want to see him be, you know, the Keon Coleman that's making contested catches, that's making, you know, has this raw ability, but is really able to use his body control and play above the rim and be a target in the red zone. So that is why I think the pressure is honestly on Brandon Bean because of kind of the lack of resources we expected them to use in the draft, them only having Coleman. So.

[B]

Yeah, I just wanted to. At this moment, it's not a rookie. They didn't draft him this year. They drafted him last year. Justin Shorter. Oh.

[A]

Keep the streak alive.

[B]

Well, we. Dan and I missed last week.

[A]

It's because I wasn't here.

[B]

You weren't here to remind us. Yes. Justin Shorter. Shame got Justin Shorter in there. He. He was 16 on my list.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

This is like, we're. I like Justin Shorter. I hope he's great.

[A]

Well, you. You interviewed him, didn't you?

[B]

Yeah, he was. He was fun. He was very upbeat. Fun. So we'll see. We'll see him at camp. We'll get a good idea.

[A]

Be a great story.

[B]

Truly awesome.

[A]

All right. Who'd you have at 14?

[B]

Mike Edwards in the secondary?

[A]

Did not have him on my list.

[B]

Well, he's a veteran. Look, he's. To me, he's Micah Hyde wearing Jordan Poirier's. Number, which is wild. Yeah. That's the number he's wearing. But listen, he's been around the league. He's played. He's got two super bowl rings. He won one with Mahomes and Brady Brady in Tampa. That's pretty cool for him. I think they need him to be that steadying guy back there. That's just the way I look at it. And, and I said about secondary guys. That's why I had these guys. 15 and 14, still very important. But they're veterans and they'll be coached up. I, I guess I don't not worry about them. I don't think they're going to be an issue either one of those guys. I think they'll both play well for the team this year. They don't have to be superstars. He's got to play well.

[A]

You can make the case definitely for, for him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I did not go in that direction. I instead decided on Daquan Jones.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

First of all, for the sheer basis that last year he said an amazing quote of. It's about a man whooping another man talking about defensive line play. But I think what he adds to this defense was having a career best season last year. Ended up being sidelined by the injury. But what he adds to also Ed Oliver's game and the pass rush and just that ability to get pressure up the middle. I think he is someone that we've seen have, you know, really, really great moments. And so I'm expecting him to kind of continue on that path. And I just think the personality he adds in terms of his presence, like being more of a veteran guy. There are a lot of guys on this roster that are young.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so to have a guy that maybe is a little bit more soft spoken but can lead in his own way, I also think that's another big part of like leadership. I feel like you have to have different types of leaders.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think Daquan is not a traditional leader of like a rah rah guy. But I feel like he can add that balance and that, that veteran presence that is really important in a locker room.

[B]

Yeah. And the other thing, there's a lot of games where you don't notice Daquan.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Individually it's not like he's a big stat guy, but he definitely impacts the.

[A]

Team a thou like he, him and Ed Oliver work so well together and I, and Ed is on my list and I, I just think what he does for the defense that offers so.

[B]

Much to the team and they didn't replay it. It was missing when he.

[A]

It was like he. Yeah, it definitely was.

[B]

What's the baseball? It's the stat. Oh, God. I shouldn't even brought it up above replacement. What is that you talking about? Oh, my God. You're all laughing as you're commenting here, but it's. It's your level. There was his. His level above his replacements was wins. Above replacements, above replacements. WAR should be simple to remember as a player. They. They missed him a ton when he wasn't there.

[A]

There was a drop off.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So. So we'll see this year. No, I. I love Daquan. He was not on my list. Just off.

[A]

Yeah, that same with Mike Edwards.

[B]

I've talked to him, see if he can work his way onto my list.

[A]

Good luck with that.

[B]

Okay, go ahead. You go 13.

[A]

Oh, 13. I had Rasol Douglas.

[B]

Oh, okay. So we're right there. And I had Spencer Brown.

[A]

I did not have him on my list.

[B]

Right tackle. Look, he impressed all of us last year. My expectations going into the year were like, what is it with this guy? They love him. Do they need a veteran right tackle? Do they need somebody to step in? He played really well and was consistent all year long.

[A]

I was very weary that it was going to be the Gabe Davis ankle thing. Was the Spencer Brown. Brown back thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, you know what, you guys, if he just. If he can stay healthy. But to Spencer's credit, he did play very well last year. And I mean, the O line in general played very well last year.

[B]

Stayed on the fields. Yeah. Now without Mitch this year, that's a change. But he's your right tackle. Like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's nice to start out the year in that way. There's been changes on the inside. We'll get to more of that. But you got Dion and you got Spencer Brown on the right side. I think they're in pretty good shape there. Number 12. I went Christian Benford.

[A]

I also went Christian Benford.

[B]

Look at that. Right?

[A]

Synergy 12.

[B]

Number 12. He's a good player. He's a foot. He's a football player.

[A]

He's a dog.

[B]

It's funny that. It was last off season, wasn't it? Not this past one, but the year before they were like, they mentioned, like Benford as a safety.

[A]

Yeah. Was it. Was it really?

[B]

They were saying it's like, could he play safety and all. Because they were still.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But Poyer, they weren't sure about. And then. No, he's too good. I think he's too good of A corner. I think he's a corner. And he'll start. I think he's, you know, he, he, he got in that spot Week one, opening game as a rookie against the Rams. Now, he alternated with Kair in that game, but he won the job, which is impressive coming out of Villanova in, what, the sixth round?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think he's become. He's such a McDermott player.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

[B]

And he's quiet, at least to us. He's a quieter guy. I don't think he says a whole lot. He just. He plays, he plays hard. He's smart.

[A]

No, I think he's been really. That's also why I put him at 12. And I also think you look at him being a younger guy that stepped into a role that we kind of were like, oh, let's see, it's Kyer, whatever. And then for him to take over, like you said, win the job. One concern is some injury history and stuff, but I think for Christian Benford, he has been a really big piece of that, of that defense, and I expect him to be at that caliber, if not higher, this upcoming year.

[B]

And it's interesting, going back to when they were rookies, I don't have Kyer Elam on my list. I don't think you do either, as one of the 15 guys. But now his value becomes more of being that other guy if he can move into that role.

[A]

Definitely, like, role reversal of, like, we'll have, you know, I'm sure Bean was like, well, we got Kyer in the first round. We'll draft Christian Benford later. See, maybe we, we cash in on him and then it's like, oh, and.

[B]

Now it's more like, you know, Benford's a guy and Elam is trying to fight his way back.

[A]

Yeah. Had a good. Had a good spring.

[B]

Yeah. We'll see how he does in camp.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Who's your 10 or 11?

[B]

11. I have James Cook at 11.

[A]

That's shocking to me. I guess, again, you obviously have him up higher. My prompt was that players that essentially need to make an impact this year, so I had him at 4.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, you can make that argument, and I don't disagree with you. His importance. I guess I look at the position and I say, if it's not happening, they'll put somebody else in there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or there'll be a veteran in here. They're not cutting James Cook, they're not benching him. But I do think there'll be. There's Always opportunities mean, you know, there'll be players out there that can be effective.

[A]

I hear you.

[B]

Run game.

[A]

I just think what he offers, his ability to run, his ability to be utilized in the passing game. We saw. You're trying to hold on to the football.

[B]

James, James, James.

[A]

He needs that. Like, that needs to change. He needs to figure out the ball security thing because that is.

[B]

They don't play with that.

[A]

No, they don't. I mean, obviously McDermott, like, there are moments last year where he was benched or he.

[B]

Not just. Not just fumbles, drop touchdowns.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, the Philly game. And what was the other really bad one he had?

[A]

I'm trying to think. He had some bad moments.

[B]

Bad drops, like open. Open jobs. The Philly one was. Is right in his hands.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, that's the type of stuff that. That haunts you.

[B]

And he's.

[A]

And obviously the Bills ended up losing that game in overtime.

[B]

He's too good of a player.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In other things.

[A]

The reason I have meant for, though, is just because the. The presence he can have on the offense, how much if he is playing well, that can change just how the Bills approach things. Being able to run the ball, being able to use him again in the passing game, just how much that opens up everything else. If you have to respect the run.

[B]

Dan's not here. You can say it. The Bills are.

[A]

The Bills are a running team. My God, Dan's throwing up fates.

[B]

He's yelling at a fish right now at the lake.

[A]

S' mores suck. And that take.

[B]

Yeah. Dan's take, by the way. S' mores are terrible.

[A]

Yeah. I.

[B]

He's got two little kids.

[A]

I know. It's just s' mores are so nostalgic.

[B]

I mean, they're. They might be a little overrated.

[A]

I mean, I just feel like they're quintessential, like, Americana summer eating a s' more.

[B]

Where it's like. This is awful. Because it got like.

[A]

No, then you just add more chocolate. Oh, that's usually my.

[B]

That's how it goes.

[A]

And just add more chocolate. No, you gotta. If it's. If it's burnt on the outside, then you gotta get it. Get the top off. And then it's like, work.

[B]

I'm not doing that.

[A]

I will say. I feel like marshmallows just, like, stick.

[B]

To you for all over. It's never Dan's take. S'. Mores. He puts with sh. Otani. Terrible.

[A]

The s' mores take might be worse.

[B]

You think? Anyhow.

[A]

Okay. All right.

[B]

They're running too.

[A]

All right. My 11.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Tyler Bass, they need him. They need him to be better. This.

[B]

I had Tyler Bass on my list and as I was eliminating players, I eliminate him, but I had him. I started out with him as 15 just because I'm like, he needs to be better. And he does. Absolutely needs to be better. Again, my only thought is if he's not good, they'll be eight year veteran. Whatever is the Bill's new kicker. Like, they will not mess around this year. They have not brought in another young kicker. I don't think that would be the case. If they made a move, A team will bring in a young guy, there'll be a veteran out there. That's what ends up happening. Again, I'm not predicting a cut here. I'm saying is he better be good.

[A]

It just makes me take pause because, you know, it wasn't that long ago that he'd be running out there and you're like, oh, bang, the Bills got it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it wasn't just that miss kick in the Chiefs game. We talked about going into that. Like, do the Bills have a kicking problem? Because it just felt like the confidence was dwindling throughout the season. Yeah, we said.

[B]

We said kicking. Kicking problem before the Chiefs game.

[A]

Fate said that.

[B]

No, there's no.

[A]

Ridiculous.

[B]

So what are you talking about?

[A]

So Dan Fates is wrong.

[B]

There it is wrong. Dan is wrong.

[A]

Dan is.

[B]

Leave it showing. Dan is wrong.

[A]

Oh, you can't even see it on the thing. Hold on. There we go. Dan Fates is wrong. Yeah, sorry, Dan. I did actually make this mug. It is available for. Available for purchase on the Buffalo Plus.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Store.

[B]

Can you order one that says Dan is wrong on both sides? That might be a big seller.

[A]

That's.

[B]

That was just about the kicking and he. And he's got to be better. Bass has to be better.

[A]

So we'll see. I mean, you know, if we're into training camp and they feel like they're in a spot, they will add someone.

[B]

Hey, look, you want to be aggressive on offense. I get all that. But there are times in a game when if a coach has. I mean, look at the Chiefs. Yeah, that guy's I making everything. Even though he's whatever. Yeah, he made everything.

[A]

Yeah, he made everything. When we were doing the preview for that game, I remember us making a graphic of like head to head in their last couple of games. And I was like, damn, that dude is automatic. Like. And think of how meaningful that was for them down the stretch.

[B]

It is. And even in the coach's mind when he says to himself, if Sean's sitting there going, it's 4th and 7. We're at the 37 yard line. If I'm going to kick it, I really believe he's making it from 54, like, MH. And I think he lost that.

[A]

I. I completely agree.

[B]

You know, and then you start saying, was he hurt?

[A]

You know, that's what's so challenging, is because you want to believe in your guys.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But then also when you start to hesitate, it's like, of course you are. You know what I mean? Like, how can you just have. You can't have blind faith in someone.

[B]

The coaches show it.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

If they don't use the kicker, if they sit a player, they won't say player.

[A]

They will not say it, but they will show it.

[B]

Yep. Yeah.

[A]

So it's just like men, if they actually like you, we don't care about you.

[B]

Anything. Yeah.

[A]

They will show it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Might not say. All right, let's go top 10.

[B]

Yeah. You go 10. Who do you got? 10?

[A]

10. I have Khalil, Shakir.

[B]

Oh, so do I.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Great minds once again, I love Shakira as a player. I'm worried that the expectations are going to be. Shakir went from rookie to here. They're going to think he's here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It would be awesome.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

The year ends, everybody in the league, everybody in your fantasy league is scrambling now. You guys are going to pick them. I know you're going to pick them. You're going to be scrambling to go. I got to pick up Shakir. And he's putting up numbers every week. He's finally that 5 and 75 guy that we were talking about with Gabe Davis. And every week he's making plays and he gets in the end zone. Be awesome. I think he's more of a linear improvement guy where he'll be better this year with more targets, more opportunities. I don't know if he's, you know, 92 catches for 1200 yards. I think it's in him. We'll see.

[A]

I think that is a very high projection, but I also feel like he is the type of player that has the attitude and the work ethic to get there, if that is possible.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And also it might not be this year. You know, I mean, like, there are levels to this stuff. So sometimes I do think we put the media, we put like fans do of unreal expectations on someone.

[B]

Gabe Davis. But he did that with the game in Kansas City.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Wait.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, the game in Kansas City. And then everybody thought Gabe was going to become a star. But even the Bills thought, we have something here. And it just. Yeah, it never happened.

[A]

I do think their demeanor is very different. And that's not necessarily a knock at Gabe Davis. I just think that Khalil approaches everything. And his draft report, if you go back and look one of the overlook, it says the first sentence, a coach's dream.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Of like the caliber of player both on the field and his versatility and. And steadiness, but also what he brings just with his presence on the sidelines.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, people have heard. Compare him to Monroe St. Brown.

[A]

His. His comparison was Antoine Randall. Yeah.

[B]

I always say Robert Woods. He just reminds me I could definitely. Robert woods had, like, longer arms, ran very colita.

[A]

Has shorter arms.

[B]

Well, he. That's why I said, yeah, woods did. But he ran in this smooth, fluid, fluid way and was a very chill guy. Like, just very relaxed the way Robert woods was. Had a very good career with the Rams. I don't think he's still on a team. Was not too. He was with the Titans. I don't know if he's still.

[A]

He's one of those players, though, that, like, when he left the Bills, I was like, oh, I wonder how long he'll be in the league for. Yeah, it's like, oh, my gosh.

[B]

No, he was. He was a good player of place. Reminds me of his demeanor and the. And the way he runs where you don't think he's getting by people. Was very encouraging to see Shakir run away from people.

[A]

Well. And Yak needs to be.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

More emphasized yet again this season.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like, you need to see the team get better at that just to alleviate.

[B]

Still with. Oh, wait a minute. He's with the Texans still.

[A]

Oh, interesting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They have another former bill in there. I forget which one it is.

[A]

Jerry Hughes.

[B]

Jerry Hughes just resigned there.

[A]

He did. I love Jerry Hughes, but. Yes, that's gonna be a great.

[B]

Yeah, he's.

[A]

I'm very excited for that game.

[B]

I should have known. He said he signed there again. He. He had. He started 11 games last year, 40 receptions. I mean, his numbers have gone down anyway, regardless. Yes. I digress.

[A]

I have. I want to try to temper my expectations for Khalil Shakir, but also I think that he has the ability to take him to the next level and. Yeah. It's just exciting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

There's targets out there. Let's see.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

I'm staying with wide receiver at 9. I have Curtis Samuel.

[A]

See, I didn't have him on the list and I regret that.

[B]

No, I mean it's. I look at him and say he is the most accomplished player at wide receiver on the team. That's not, it's not saying a lot for their current group. But he has been there and done it to a level and certainly not with the quarterback that he has now. And if I'm Joe Brady and he played well when he was with Brady.

[A]

I was about to say, what do you think I'm going to say if.

[B]

If I. Joe Brady, I'm like, I. I'm not saying he's Debo Samuel, but he does play a similar game. It's like, you know, Debo is the, you know, the mark, the guy who is going to be that running back, wide receiver, plays tough breaks, tackles, run after catch, all those things. I think there's a lot of similarities in the way they play. And I don't think Curtis Samuel has had. Certainly hasn't had the quarterback and he hasn't had an offense not say, geared to him where he's got a very legitimate amount of touches that he's going to get and I think he'll get that with this team.

[A]

There is a big opportunity for him here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he played well like you said rest season of his career under Joe Brady. So yeah, we'll see if he can use that opportunity. Okay. Who do you have at? Oh, I. @ nine. Yeah, I have Dion Dawkins.

[B]

Yeah, I mean Dion's love. Dion so important to them. I have Dion higher up. I have him at 6. He's a veteran. He's left tackle. He's 30 years old. I thought last year might have been his best year.

[A]

I mean, I feel like Dion is just one of those guys that you just, you know, he's going to play. Like, you're, like, you don't even think about it really, where you're like, okay, he. He is someone that couple years ago.

[B]

He, he had moments where he just wasn't. I don't think he was as healthy.

[A]

I would say I think that was after he got co. Really bad and like he wasn't himself then. But I'm saying, as of recently, you.

[B]

Look back to that Covid thing. Remember that news conference after he was sick?

[A]

He was really sick. He was hospitalized.

[B]

Yeah. And he's a big dude there and told us that. I was like, wow.

[A]

And he was, he's very transparent about.

[B]

But Jenna already mentioned, obviously, you know, Mitch isn't there anymore. I think Deion has always been his own Version of a leader.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think he becomes more of one now. Not that Connor McGovern at center won't do what he needs to do, but Deion is Dion. He'll lead in a Dion way. First of all, he leads by the way he plays. He plays hard, sticks up for everybody, doesn't take any crap on the field.

[A]

Love that.

[B]

He is. He is that guy. So, yes, I'm with you on him.

[A]

No, you have a nine.

[B]

So I had Samuel at nine. At eight.

[A]

Oh, yes.

[B]

I have Matt Milano at eight.

[A]

I have Matt Milano at seven. Okay, who do you have at seven?

[B]

I have Gregory Rousseau.

[A]

Guess who I have at eight?

[B]

Gregory Russell. Okay, so these two guys. Listen, Milano is a great talent. We have seen him play at the highest level. I think he. He's probably the most accomplished player. Not Von Miller accomplished. Von Miller did all that somewhere else. I'm talking about for the Buffalo Bills. Probably the most accomplished player. He and Taran are probably the most accomplished players on this current defense for the Bills. Obviously, he's coming back from an injury, but the way he played when he was out there till that stinking game in London.

[A]

Throws worst.

[B]

And there's so many problems that game in London.

[A]

But when the Bills play the Jags, they're just never good.

[B]

Yeah. And they get them early this year. Right.

[A]

I think it is.

[B]

It's like a. Is it week three?

[A]

You think it's that. Is it that early?

[B]

Isn't it? Yeah, it's week three, Jags games.

[A]

Yeah, you're right.

[B]

Week three, it's all that Monday night. But I think about him and Bernard together. We only got this limited window. It was fantastic when the way they.

[A]

Played for our job, when we have to get, like, video of really great defensive plays. It's like, go to the Washington Commanders game and just watch Matt Milano and Terrell Bernard terrorize the Commanders.

[B]

They just did. I mean, I. Turnovers. Wasn't there like six turnovers?

[A]

I think it was. It was just ridiculous.

[B]

Bunch of picks. Everything was good.

[A]

That's what. Like when you were like, oh, maybe Terrell Bernard's gonna be really good.

[B]

Yeah. And so he's. He's a playmaker and Milano is. And the hope is that he's healthy. And if he is, that's exciting. Huge.

[A]

That is exciting.

[B]

Because it's hard to find a pair of 20, 24 type linebackers better than those two guys.

[A]

Agreed.

[B]

There's some really good pairs around the league. There's a lot of good players. Maybe you'll even comment and Tell me about this team. The Niners have had really good linebacker play. The Ravens, those teams, it was hard to beat those two. They can both run, they can cover. They're smart.

[A]

I think for fans, too. Just seeing Milano back practicing that mandatory camp like that, to me is just such a huge sign of relief.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And also just seeing the potential of what that could be for this. Bill's defense is just like beyond where you're like this. Could they have the potential to be just really an incredible duo? So I had Greg.

[B]

So, I mean, Rousseau is huge for them.

[A]

Yeah. And like, I want him to continue to take another step forward.

[B]

I'm looking for a big step.

[A]

Yeah. That's fair. Like, again, this is players that I want to have a big impact.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

I want to see more from Greg Russo. I think he's a nice player. He's played well in moments. I think he's done a great job. Now I want to see him as that former first round pick, be the showstopper. Guys that other fans, teams are like, oh, we gotta watch out for Gregory.

[B]

You know, they sit in the room and they go, where is he?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And look, I think he needs to play with a little more. We always talk. We just mentioned Jerry Hughes still in Houston. Jerry Hughes played with a bit of an anger, too.

[A]

Yes. He had an alter ego.

[B]

Yes. And then Gary. Gary. And then it would cost him a vault. Greg Rousseau is pretty.

[A]

He's so nice going.

[B]

Nice guy. Can't play that way.

[A]

Hey.

[B]

Leonard Floyd didn't say boo. All he did was go get the quarterback. I mean, he really was pretty laid back guy.

[A]

Definitely.

[B]

I'm just saying is like, I want Rousseau to be you can't stop me kind of guy. You got to bring up.

[A]

What did Vaughn say? Gunpowder and gasoline.

[B]

Yeah. Very fond quote.

[A]

Yeah, it is.

[B]

He loves those. I think Russo, they made the commitment to him. They picked up the fifth year option. He'll make a lot of money next year, but he can make even more if he plays really well. That'll be a guy Bean will be looking to extend, incorporate that fifth year option. Because I think it's like 13 mil next year.

[A]

It's a lot of money.

[B]

So they have faith in this guy. Now, I know you said they drafted him. Yes. I didn't have to pick up the fifth year option.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

They seems to do it.

[A]

They showed good faith.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

They showed the faith that they think he can continue. Continue to go down that path of getting even better.

[B]

But it's basically a contract year for him.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Double digit sacks.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What do you think about that?

[B]

That's what I want to see out of him. And I. It's 17 games. Like, he had moments. He also made plays in the run game. He held up his side on the edge. Yes. He did a lot of good things. You definitely noticed him in games even when he wasn't getting to the quarterback. This team needs guys to get to the quarterback.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

They really do.

[A]

All right, I have at six, I have Conor McGovern.

[B]

Well, I have Dion at six. We already talked about Dion.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I have McGovern at five. So let's talk McGovern.

[A]

I just think normally I feel like you wouldn't include the center as much in a top 15 because it's like, all right, that's kind of pencil and paste in and you're fine. But this year, with it being Connor McGovern, you know, changing back to center, I just think there's. When it works, you don't. You don't even think about it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But when it's broken, you're like, oh, my God, they can't even snap the ball correctly. It's like those little miscues that can really train wreck a series. So for me, I have. I. I do think it'll be because of the familiarity they already have between the two. I do think there's always going to be some bumps in the road, but I do have hope that it will be, you know, a pretty seamless progression. But also too know Mitch Morris was such a big piece of this team, him not being here. It's gonna need for McGovern to step up and continue to be a leader on that offensive line. And like we talked about, you know, the protections, having to do that, calling those things out. It's going to be an adjustment for this team, not one that I don't think is possible or plausible. It's just. It's going to be different. And I feel like we have to acknowledge that.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, the interior of the line is. Is different in that when the case he's moving from guard over to center. Mitch is gone second year, man. Listen, it's funny and I mentioned this later.

[A]

Torrance Osiris. Torrance.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or as Dan likes to call him, Cyrus.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

Made him Irish.

[B]

He did. The guy just played every week and played really well.

[A]

Rookie season always out there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, talk about a guy that, like, again, you don't even think about it because he. He played well. But it's like really impressive rookie season.

[B]

But with McGovern, I think there's a lot on him, but he's played. He's played with this team. He's played on this line. And I think. I think it won't be a massive. It's a. It's a change, obviously, back in the position. This is what he's going to spend the whole off season. It's not like Mitch got hurt in week three, and you got to move over. He'll be ready for that. And I think he's a very good football player, so I think it'll be good. But it's. It's important. It's really important because he's the guy helping, like you said, set the pass defense or the pass blocking.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you got Josh Allen behind you.

[A]

It was interesting, too. Josh kind of talked, as a bit of an aside, but Josh kind of talked about in the spring, like, having a new center.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And how, like, with Mitch, they knew each other so well. Like, he knew where. If Mitch was gonna miss, where that would be. And I thought that was really interesting.

[B]

Because it's one of those snaps.

[A]

Yeah. On snaps where you're like, oh, you know, you don't really think about it, but. And that just comes with time and all those things. And again, I totally think that McGovern can get there, but it's one of those things that, you know, could have the ability to hamstring things if it's not where it needs to be.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I expect it to be fun.

[B]

And then they asked Mitch, when Josh misses, where's it going to be? He's got. I got no idea. Because you never know what he's gonna do. He could just be throwing it.

[A]

Someone. Is he? Yeah.

[B]

You just don't know.

[A]

Who knows? All right. Who did you have at number five?

[B]

So I had McGovern at five.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Because we've been going down. Then I have ed Oliver at 4.

[A]

Okay. I have Terrell Bernard at 5.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I love Terrell Bernard.

[B]

He. I have him at three.

[A]

So he is so much more than I. I believe anyone. Oh, shoot. Other than Dan. But Dan didn't think. Dan thought he would be the starting. Like, he didn't think he would be exceptional.

[B]

Like, Dan acts like he. He just said, no, sir.

[A]

Dan.

[B]

He stops. We've told this story before. We're walking from the far field at camp, and we're walking back, and Dan stops, and he goes. I'm gonna make a prediction right now. One year from now, starting this is the open, the starting middle linebacker for this team. Is going to be Terrell Bernard. That's what he says. Just like that. We're like, okay.

[A]

I think we said, you're crazy.

[B]

And then a year later, even at camp, we didn't think Bernard was going to. Dan knew. Dan knew.

[A]

Dan was right.

[B]

He was so excited.

[A]

Yeah. He was.

[B]

Not only when they named him. All he cared is they named him for the first week.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

That he could be right after that.

[A]

Who cares after that?

[B]

But Bernard came in and, you know, McDermott talked highly about him. But, I mean, we're watching in camp, and then he got hurt. Then we're coming into opening game.

[A]

I honestly forgot about that.

[B]

You're hurt. And we're like, who's gonna start?

[A]

Wow. That feels like.

[B]

And they're like, bernard's gonna start. And he was great.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm with you. I got him third. So just. I'm right there.

[A]

Again, excellent player. Oh, that doesn't look right.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

It's got a scam email. All right, you had at five.

[B]

Five. And I had McGovern and then Ed Oliver at four.

[A]

Okay. I had Ed at three.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, he's so important to this team. We talked about him with Daquan, but Ed is the guy. And Ed, in his contract year played well. After he got paid, he played even better, which is great.

[A]

You don't always see that.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

He did a story, I remember last spring about Ed being paid.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And his mindset afterwards. And he was just like, I want to prove the bills right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think he did that. And now it's just about continuing that level of production and then in big moments, being able to have that ability to get pressure because I can't sit again.

[B]

Yeah. But the other thing about Ed. And there you can say this about a lot of players. That guy really likes to play football.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He likes the game. He likes everything he seems to do. He likes I.

[A]

His personality, too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Seeing him on the horses in the off season.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A big vibes guy, which I appreciate.

[B]

He's upbeat.

[A]

I mean this in the best way. He doesn't take himself too seriously.

[B]

No.

[A]

Which I appreciate. Because you're right, he plays with a joy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I don't. And not everyone has that.

[B]

No, no. I mean, it's a job. They all know it. And. And listen, you're playing in the middle of the D line like that is. That's not a picnic down there. Yeah.

[A]

It's a man whooping another man.

[B]

That's it.

[A]

According to Daeguan.

[B]

All right, so I had Bernard third.

[A]

Okay. I had Ed.

[B]

Oh. So we're right there. Now we have two and one.

[A]

There's no way that we, like. We absolutely have the same.

[B]

So 2. It could have gone either way for me. When I filled out this form, I made the guy one right away. So two for me is Taryn Johnson.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I put Taryn at two because he is proven he is so good. Does that make sense? Like, for. Again, I did this based on the impact that they need to have.

[B]

And you change the defense if he's not on the field.

[A]

Oh, my God. It is. We forget how much Taron Johnson is on the field like he is. You want to talk about Micah Hyde and Jordan Poyer? They were safety blankets. Taron Johnson is also a huge safety blanket for this team. And now this year, we get to see him in an evolved role as being a leader.

[B]

And I think he recognized that. When we talked to him, he was kind of like, yeah, I've been thinking about being. Got to be more vocal. And he deferred to those guys. But it's funny the way we used to look at it. You know, we always had Trey at corner and the two safeties, and we. It's almost like you didn't even think about Taren in that.

[A]

I. No, I get why. Because he was so automatic.

[B]

He's in there. You don't even think about another guy playing. And he's in there and he plays. He had injury deal earlier in his career.

[A]

He battled some injuries early on, but.

[B]

He'S made plays for this franchise. He does so many things, and with those guys being gone, I mean, if you think about it, when they were on the field together and you had Tray White, Micah Hyde, and Jordan Poyer, that's a lot of years. And then you have Taryn Johnson. So now Taran moves into that role, and we have, you know, they have Mike Edwards here. You have Rasool Douglas. These guys have been around. They just haven't been in Buffalo the whole time. But at least you do have some other veterans with them. It's not kids.

[A]

So two guys are gone. So Taryn gets to talk.

[B]

Can you imagine being in that spot where two guys just talk and talk and talk and you don't feel like you can have your voice heard. Can you imagine being that way?

[A]

I relate a lot more to Taron Johnson than I was expecting. Okay, so if Taryn is that number.

[B]

Two, I'll let you say one. It's a given to me.

[A]

Yeah. Number one is Dalton.

[B]

Yep. All day they need him to be big.

[A]

They need him to be big. You saw at the end, I felt like of last season, you saw him be able to make those plays. I thought he had a great rookie season.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

What I'm excited for is the fact that him and Josh had all that time last year. Now they're going into another season. And what makes Patrick Mahomes and Travis Kelsey so great is the fact that they don't have to speak to be able to figure out what the other one is going to do. And that makes them unguardable. And so for Kincaid to have the ability to have more time with Josh, I think things are only going to continue to get better.

[B]

Yeah. And look, he was really good. And this off season, Joe Brady has now put more of his stamp on the offense. And I think it's pretty obvious that while it was a digs focused passing game, it's going to be a Kincaid focused passing game. Maybe not to the level that it was with Diggs, who got 160 targets last year.

[A]

I think too, when you saw last year at the end of last season, they were, you know, I mean, Diggs is target, all that stuff obviously took a dive. You saw Kincaid kind of come alive. And I think that's where this offense is absolutely trending for this year.

[B]

I just want to see him in the end zone more.

[A]

I, I totally agree.

[B]

He had two touchdowns.

[A]

Yeah. That needs to change.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But the mismatch he can offer is really exciting.

[B]

Yeah. And otherwise Josh just run it in.

[A]

That's. I mean, you get close to the.

[B]

Red zone and he's just, he'll do that. But I do think Kincaid can do that. I think they can get him the ball in the red zone. And I also think you mentioned Coleman in the beginning. I think Coleman could have an impact in the red zone. I really do. I mean, that's one of the up and get it.

[A]

So that's one of the selling points of his game. I hope that is the case.

[B]

But. But yes. I, I just think Kincaid.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Both by his ascension as a player last year and what we've heard from coaches and players, he's going to be a focal point of the offense. He's got to be ready.

[A]

He, he, he does.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right. We'll see. Okay. Players left offed. Left off.

[B]

Yeah. Well, I mentioned the guards. I had both of the guards and I just. It's just the way it worked out. I have three offensive linemen.

[A]

I think Cyrus. I almost did the Osiris.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think Cyrus No. Osiris Torrance.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Gosh, Dan. I think he's like, a starred honorable mention, as opposed to, like, left off, to me is kind of like, no. A dig, but no.

[B]

And you got David Andrews now number 70, Edwards. Why do I want to say Andrews.

[A]

That's okay.

[B]

Wasn't David Andrews was.

[A]

We fixed it.

[B]

David Andrews.

[A]

I just.

[B]

The play for the Patriots.

[A]

I love, like, listening when David Edwards is now eligible. You know what I mean? He would be coming in on and off the field. All right, who did you leave off?

[B]

So Taylor rap. I put Mike Edwards in there.

[A]

Taylor rap. I also left off.

[B]

I mean, I think he'll have a big role. I think he'll have a role. But I had Tyler Bass off the list. You had him on there. The interesting one was, I think AJ Epinesa is going to get a lot of snaps this year, and I did not have him on there, and I did not have Von Miller on the list.

[A]

I did not have Vaughn Miller on the list. I know you guys did the podcast last week about Vaughn's comments, and I didn't really get a chance to, you know, being on vacation, but I did read the transcript, and a note is. A transcript is. You don't understand. You don't hear the tone. And I think tone is really important when you're deciphering kind of the intentions behind what someone is saying.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I also wish that he would have taken more accountability in my eyes, because he was the one who really put out the narrative and kind of forced the narrative of, like, I'm gonna play this season. I'm gonna be ready for week. Like, all these things that he was the one to talk about, he was the one to bring up. I just wish he would have taken some ownership and been like, you know what? I wanted to be out there, but now with the ability to look back, I shouldn't have been. I wasn't ready, and I'll be ready. I'll be ready this year. And I would have. I just think I would have seen that, and I would have been like, okay, yeah. I just feel like the lack of.

[B]

Instead, it came out, like, at least the way it was written was I probably shouldn't have played.

[A]

Yeah. And that put the. The. Like, the blame to me kind of on, like, the. The coaching staff, the medical staff. And I just. That rubbed me the wrong way because I just. I feel like it's disingenuous to put it on them when he was the one saying all along that this is what he was doing.

[B]

And He's a worker. I know staff. He did everything he needed. The issue is you're 34 coming off major knee surgery, and it takes a little while. It just does. And I think Vaughn has always been able to be above and beyond what people expect. It's a physical marvel. He wasn't so then to say I probably shouldn't have played. Maybe he should have sat out a few more weeks, gotten himself more ready. But even that, I think it's just. What do they say? Mother Nature's undefeated. Father Time's undefeated. Mother Nature's undefeated. Like, in this case, it could be. Father Time is like, at a certain point, he's older. Doesn't mean he can't come back, and it doesn't mean he won't be better this year than he was last year.

[A]

That is the hope.

[B]

I just think his role will be different this year. It should be.

[A]

It just. Yeah. Again, it just showed to me that. Or. Or to me, it just felt like you had the opportunity to say kind of the right thing after last season's play didn't go the way it did.

[B]

And his off the field stuff absolutely rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.

[A]

Just felt a bit toned up.

[B]

Yes. Before you write it, I know there was no charges and no suspension. I. I get it. But it was during the. By week after the Bills had lost that tough game with the Eagles, and then they have him with his issues in Dallas, which caused a whole thing for the organization, and it stayed that way for a while as he was coming back to the team.

[A]

So, yeah, the Bills at that moment were reeling.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Yeah. So we'll see. I mean, my thought process is this year will be better for Vaugh because on the, on the field like he does, he's not wearing his brace. Like his body's been able to heal in a way that, you know, before that point, you're not going to be as twitchy, you're not going to be able to be as explosive. It's just how it is. And so.

[B]

And it's rehab, rehab, rehab, and then go on the field. I think this year he. It's probably was more of a somewhat normal off season physically for him.

[A]

Agreed.

[B]

And I think if used in the right way and he could be that impactful pass rush guy, that would be huge for this team because that's what they need.

[A]

It's kind of ironic because his contract is so high, but I feel like the bar of where he's at and what his play is, it would almost be found money if he played, I agree. If he contribute. You know what I mean? Which is I. It's ironic considering how much he is being paid.

[B]

It's more like a baseball contract.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because you. You can't get rid of guys.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So whatever Giancarlo Stanton does for the Yankees, they go great. Because he's not going anywhere. So when he helps him it. I can feed right into our. We want to talk about our comments of the week.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And comment of the week. Yes. And so this one from Mafia Sport Report Sports report subscribed to us for three years. Love it. Said Von Miller put put pressure on himself in 2023 by saying he will be on the field week one. If you noticed, he hasn't spoken up about free agents or potential trade rumors this offseason like he did seasons prior. I love Von and his positive outlook on certain things, but so far it's backfired on him. I do think we'll see a better Vaughn in 24 now that he's had time to recover. That was a nice, measured, even keeled, educated comment.

[A]

Love it.

[B]

Sticks out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because sometimes they're like he sucks or you guys are idiots for saying he did anything wrong. Yeah.

[A]

No, I think that that was a great comment.

[B]

It was a great comment. Yeah.

[A]

Respect.

[B]

Right on the money.

[A]

Yeah. Could not agree more. Shout out to them.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Appreciate that. And for being a subscriber.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That always, honestly, like makes my day. Makes our day when we hear that. So we do really appreciate it. All right. Anything else you want to add now?

[B]

I'm just thinking I'm looking on the calendar. Like camp's going to be here fast.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Actually the rookies report. So when the rookies report to Fiser, we can't do anything.

[A]

Yeah. We can't go.

[B]

We're blocked out of there. But I start because I live around the corner so I see a little activity but it's only a few. It's the rookies. It's smaller and they'll have them doing stuff. But we can't go over there. Can't interview buddy, can't talk to anybody. So what is it? The 24th? 4th is when it starts.

[A]

All the madness.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's always fun. I love. I love training camp. I know some people don't love it, but I just think it's such a cool opportunity and like so many teams don't go away.

[B]

The only problem with camp is people ask me for tickets. I don't have tickets. I signed up for them like everybody else.

[A]

My mom got Tickets.

[B]

There's no way.

[A]

Shout out, Val. She did. She put in the lottery while she was away. Her and my dad were really on vacation. They also vacationed. They vacationed because they're retired. But, yeah, she won tickets. So you see a woman who looks like me but is older. It's probably Val.

[B]

That's. That's. That's a beautiful way to talk about your mother.

[A]

Yeah, no, she's great. She's hilarious. She's. She's a hoot, but no. Yeah. And my dad. If you see a man who looks. Who's built like a refrigerator box, that is my father.

[B]

That is him. Yes.

[A]

Six, two, and just a polar bear.

[B]

Six, two, 180.

[A]

Yeah, he wishes now.

[B]

He's a big dude. Yeah, he is great people, so. Oh, they'll be a camp.

[A]

They'll bother you. I'm sure they will. All right, well, we will. We'll. We'll talk more as we get ready for.

[B]

Is the other guy coming back next week? We'll have him back.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Dan.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know. I'm kidding. No, we miss Dan. We know he's listening.

[B]

Yeah, he be like, I. I checked out the podcast.

[A]

Be like, that was good.

[B]

That's a good line you guys had.

[A]

We'll see if he's revisited his. S' more steak.

[B]

Yes. No, he won't. He'll. He'll dig in now.

[A]

Yeah. That is really fun. I got a plan.

[B]

S'. Mores.

[A]

Yeah, we gotta figure that out. Okay.

[B]

Just don't tell them. If you guys see.

[A]

Yeah, don't tell them. Don't tell them. All right. For Dan Fates, who's on vacation, and Mike Catalana, I'm Jenna Cottrell. Thank you so much for checking out Buffalo Plus. Please be sure to, like, come. There we go. Like, comment, subscribe as well as share. We appreciate it. Thanks for watching. We'll catch you next time here on the Buffalo Plus Plus YouTube channel.

[B]

This is the Buffalo plus podcast, brought.

[A]

To you by Connors and Ferris.