5 BILLS STORYLINES for the start of TRAINING CAMP and your QUESTIONS ANSWERED

Summary

Buffalo Plus Podcast Summary

"5 BILLS STORYLINES for the start of TRAINING CAMP and your QUESTIONS ANSWERED"

Date: July 23, 2024
Hosts: Mike Catalana, Jenna Cottrell, Dan Fetes

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Episode Overview

This episode kicks off the Buffalo Bills' 2024 training camp with a lively, in-depth roundtable among veteran Bills reporters Mike Catalana, Jenna Cottrell, and Dan Fetes. The crew breaks down the top five storylines heading into camp, tackles key fan questions, and closes with their signature hot takes. The tone is candid, energetic, and heavily laced with experience and humor as the hosts debate roster competitions, position battles, and coaching changes, with their analysis aimed at giving Bills fans an honest, behind-the-scenes look as the season begins.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Wide Receiver Room Overhaul

• Main Concern: Who can Josh Allen reliably target in crucial moments, now that Stefon Diggs is gone?
• Fan Question: Ranking WR1 to WR5 (05:42)
• On MVS vs Curtis Samuel as WR1:
  • Dan: “I think MVS is the most accomplished wide receiver in this room...if we’re starting tomorrow.” (06:11)
  • Mike/Jenna: “I think it’s Curtis Samuel...he is the most consistent performer.” (06:38)
• Khalil Shakir: Debate over whether he should (or could) be WR1.
  • Mike: “He has a very high floor.” (10:31)
  • Dan: “He’s best fit as a Welker...eating up the middle of the field.” (10:45)
• Rookie Keon Coleman: High-ceiling rookie who shouldn’t be overburdened with WR1 expectations immediately.
  • Mike: “He’s got star written all over him...but it’s hard for most rookies to start that way.” (11:56)
  • Dan: “I’d have him as WR2 if camp started tomorrow.” (13:08)
• Emergence of Dalton Kincaid: Hosts agree that Kincaid (TE) may end up being the team’s most-targeted "receiver." (15:03)
• Wideout Depth Names: Mack Hollins, Justin Shorter mentioned as candidates for “training camp darlings.” (15:13-15:28)

2. Vonn Miller's Outlook & Pass Rush Questions

• Where to Set Expectations:
  • Mike: “You just have to forget about how much money he makes. Honestly, he should be a pass rushing specialist...30% of the snaps and very effective ones.” (16:54-18:04)
  • Dan: “If he's going to have a successful year, it’s got to be nine [sacks].” (18:08)
  • Jenna: “My expectations are like five or six sacks...tough to bounce back at age 35.” (18:27-18:38)
• Edge Depth Problem: Worries about the lack of depth/impact beyond Miller and Greg Rousseau.
  • “If you’re saying Von’s going to be a spot guy...who the hell’s going to start?” (20:46)
• Possible Veteran Addition: Dave Myers and others hope for a veteran edge signing (21:50)
• Concern Meter: “Seven plus” out of 10 for the defensive end/pass rusher group. (22:36-22:42)

3. Safety & Secondary Transition

• No More Poyer & Hyde: The end of an era and the beginning of a competition featuring Mike Edwards, Taylor Rapp, Cole Bishop, and Damar Hamlin.
  • Mike: “I think it’s probably Mike Edwards and Taylor Rapp [starting].” (24:00)
  • Dan: “Don’t sleep on Damar Hamlin...he was really good when he played.” (24:09)
• Unsettled Battle: “It’s not set. It needs to be set.” (25:04)

4. Matt Milano’s Recovery & LB Competition

• Milano’s Return: Expectation that the Bills will “slow play” his camp snaps (26:15-27:16), focusing on a full return by week one.
  • “Guys only have so many snaps in them. He’s coming back from a serious injury.” (26:21)
• Dorian Williams & Baylon Spector: Both expected to draw attention as potential depth or breakout players.
  • “Dorian’s got a very high ceiling as an athletic freak.” (29:22)
  • Mike: “I will say I think fans are going to get excited about Dorian Williams this year.” (28:33)

5. Coaching & Playcalling Changes

• Bobby Babich Takes Over Defense:
  • Dan: “I think Bobby will call the plays week one...Sean can always take it back if needed.” (31:22)
  • Mike: “He’s ready for this. There will still be collaboration, but Babich gets the off-season to prepare.” (32:44-33:39)
• Joe Brady’s First Full Offseason as OC:
  • Jenna: “I just feel like [with Brady] he can sequence plays better, his rapport with Josh is different in a good way.” (41:18)
  • Dan: “There’s a lot of pressure for him to have it look good out of the jump.” (37:43)
  • Mike: “It was going to be different no matter what...you changed the center and the whole WR room.” (38:11)
  • All agree training camp is critical for the new offensive identity to emerge.
• Special Teams Uncertainties:
  • The new NFL kickoff rules are an unknown; hosts agree that not even teams/coaches know how it’ll play out.
  • “It’s either going to be nothing happens or guys are breaking long plays all the time because they don’t know.” (42:03)
  • Dan: “Do the Bills have a kicking problem?” “No.” (43:41)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On replacing Diggs:
  • Dan: “Who’s the guy on third and 14 that’s getting the ball...that defenses are worried about? That’s still to be undecided.” (04:07)
• On rookie Keon Coleman’s ceiling:
  • Mike: “He got star written all over him...he just has that. It’s just not every rookie receiver comes in [and is] the number one guy.” (11:56)
• On the uncertainty in the WR corps:
  • Dan: “I have MVS as the one and Keon as the two when I don’t really think...either is a one or two on 20 other teams...you’re trying to hodgepodge this together.” (14:38)
• On Von Miller's role:
  • Mike: “He should be a pass rushing specialist...I’d rather see him be the highly, highly paid specialist.” (18:04)
• On special teams and new kickoffs:
  • “We don’t know what to make of it because they don’t know what to make of it yet.” (42:03)
• On the mood entering camp:
  • Jenna: “We are approaching training camp. A reminder. We will be posting daily videos...who stood out for a good reason, who stood out for probably not so great reason.” (54:41)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Wide Receiver Room & Rankings: 03:35–15:30
• Von Miller & Pass Rush Depth: 15:54–22:42
• Safety Battle (No Poyer/Hyde): 23:05–25:21
• Matt Milano/Linebackers: 26:04–29:43
• Rookie/Dorian Williams/Babich as DC: 29:43–35:11
• Joe Brady and Offensive Pressure: 36:12–41:19
• Special Teams Rule Changes: 41:35–44:14

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Under-the-Radar Players & Camp Darlings

• Dorian Williams: High-upside LB; likely to draw attention with Milano limited. (49:52)
• Justin Shorter, Zach Davidson: Both mentioned as strong “training camp darling” candidates, with Davidson already impressing with a touchdown and celebration in minicamp. (50:13-50:33)
• Matt Hollins: Noted for his unique personality; will be featured at camp and in stories. (51:00)

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Hot Takes

• Dan: “This season, MVS will have more receiving yards than Shakir.” (52:12)
• Jenna: “I think Shakir will have more receiving yards than MVS.” (52:30)
• Mike: “Curtis Samuel will have more receiving yards than either one of those players.” (52:50)
• Bet proposed among the trio on who will be right (53:04).

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Fan Questions & Miscellaneous Topics

• On McDermott’s Job Security:
  • Mike: “About as safe as safe can get...Bill Belichick isn’t coming here.” (44:22-44:39)
• Bills vs. Chiefs Roster:
  • Consensus is the Bills have an edge at linebacker/secondary. Chiefs have the advantage at QB and have impressively retooled.
• Under-the-Radar Player Picks:
  • Dorian Williams, Demar Hamlin, Justin Shorter, Zach Davidson (48:35–51:08)

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Overall Tone

The hosts maintain an affable, at times teasing rapport, quick to note each other's quirks and hot takes, while also diving deeply into X’s and O’s. They balance optimism for new faces (and camp buzz) with frank assessments of roster question marks and Buffalo’s evolving identity. The episode’s pace matches the mounting excitement and tension of a new football season, with each host bringing expertise and a hint of local flavor.

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Highly Watchable/Relisten Segments

• Wide Receiver Breakdown and Rankings Debate: (03:35–15:30)
• Von Miller Expectation Setting: (15:54–18:27)
• Safety Battle Early Camp Predictions: (23:05–25:21)
• Group Hot Takes and Bets: (52:01-53:15)

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Ideal For Fans Who:

• Want digestible, honest Bills insight on roster battles and camp storylines
• Don’t mind real, sometimes playful banter
• Are seeking a primer on both established and under-the-radar Bills storylines heading into 2024 camp

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Listen to this episode if you want a fast, honest, and entertaining orientation to the most pressing Bills training camp questions—and a sense of the personalities covering America's Team of the North.

Transcript

[A]

All right, let's jump into it.

[B]

I'm tapped out of hot takes.

[C]

No way that's not the case.

[A]

No way.

[B]

Gotcha.

[A]

You bring up Keon, Mike, where do.

[C]

You put him on your list again? I want the expectations to be massive.

[B]

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[A]

All right. Welcome back to the Buffalo plus podcast, presented by Connors and Ferris, Mike Catalana, Dan Fates. I am Jenna Cottrell. Gentlemen, we have made it. There is Bill's football. Gentleman. Gentlemen. Should I restart?

[C]

Nope, keep it up. Good.

[A]

Too excited. Please be sure to, like, comment, subscribe and share. We always appreciate it. All the gentlemen out there, it's not one thing, it's another. Okay, let's talk.

[B]

And wherever you get your podcast audience coming with us, I.

[A]

Yes, yes, Dan, you make a good point. I always try to do that later on, but you're right.

[C]

I want an official ruling here.

[B]

I'm right?

[C]

Is that.

[B]

She said it.

[A]

You're whatever.

[C]

I want an official ruling. Was that an interruption?

[A]

I blacked out, so I don't know, I'm just so used to it that I don't know.

[B]

For those counting at home, we are already at 1.

[A]

That is how we've started off this podcast. Okay. We do want to remind everyone, if you are on the go, you can just listen to our podcast. It's available wherever you find your podcast. Stitcher, Spotify, Apple, all those things. So we always really appreciate it.

[C]

I find myself listening back to our podcast usually when I'm doing stuff like cutting. Cutting the grass, you know, kind of thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And I'm like, oh, that was pretty good. And then I hear myself. I'm like, you got to stop talking so much.

[A]

I think that's a universal thought. Yeah.

[C]

Do you ever think that, Dan?

[B]

I try not to listen back to it. In all honesty, that's about it.

[A]

I. I will. And I usually am just mad at myself, but, yeah, that's fine. It's word. Yeah. Well, like, Jemlin, whatever. I said, like, it's just like.

[C]

What was it a couple weeks ago?

[A]

Oh. Oh, it started with an F. Was it full force?

[B]

No, freely. Something freely.

[A]

Free.

[B]

Free flowing.

[C]

Free flowing.

[B]

I did listen to the podcast that I wasn't on because I then I could list. I can't hear myself.

[A]

Yeah, Flowing. Okay. All right. We're gonna do our top five story lines heading into training camp, and this year is gonna be fun. It's gonna be different as well. We're also going to answer some questions, and then we're gonna do a little hot takes that we have as we enter camp that starts later on this week here in the Rochester area. St. John Fisher has always been a great host. So. All right, let's jump into it.

[B]

I'm tapped out of hot takes.

[A]

No way.

[C]

That's not the case.

[A]

No way.

[B]

Gotcha.

[A]

Just say the limit does not exist. Okay, storylines. What. What do we want to start with?

[B]

I think the glaring elephant in the room.

[A]

Wide receiver room.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I think that's. That's the biggest concern. I think that's. That's what everybody wants to talk about as we get forward into this. For those listening on the audio side, we will have videos out every single day from training camp on the YouTube channel, like, comment subscribe. But we also were talking about doing a pass catcher of the day because I think this is the most talked about thing. It is a nearly completely revamped room that, like Josh Allen isn't a storyline heading into camp.

[A]

No.

[B]

But it's who is he throwing the footballs to that you can depend on? And the one thing that always stands out to me is that, yeah, there can be guys that can catch passes and all these things. I look at it as who's the guy on third and 14 that's getting the ball that.

[A]

That.

[B]

That defenses are worried about? And as of right now, as we head into training camp, I think that's still to be undecided.

[C]

I see what you're saying here. I'm going to take you away from third and 14 because third and 14 is difficult.

[B]

Correct.

[C]

I'm thinking third and six. That's going to happen all the time.

[B]

Fair.

[C]

Third and six. Who's the guy? And I think Diggs was that guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And. And I think it certainly was the guy that grabbed the attention from the defense most of the time. Third and six. Third and seven. Your point is, who is the guy? It's not always about total numbers. It's about the important plays and Is he there? We see that. And that's when you start talking about Kincaid in terms of pass catchers. That's what you see with Kelsey.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

It's not always that he puts up 150 yards, but damn, he just seems to catch the one. They always need the back cover him. Yes, they should. Yes.

[A]

Yeah. The clutch player who you go to, who you're confident in in a big time situation that. Yeah, maybe it isn't a third and 14, but it is that necessary play to continue the drive. That is what I put down. I said, who will emerge as wide receiver 1. Because I think they. We have a list of names and this actually segues. Great. Into a question that we want to thank Keon's cookies for writing in.

[B]

Well done.

[A]

They wrote, how would you rank wide receiver 1 to 5 before seeing them at camp? And I think that's actually a really interesting point because who do you have at number one? Who do you have, you know, at number two? Three. Like where does. Where do you right now think that these guys rank? Dan?

[B]

I think the one.

[A]

You covered up your sheet.

[B]

I did.

[A]

We have sheets and Dan covered his up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He thinks it's like a quiz that I'm gonna. I'm not stealing Dan's answers.

[C]

No, I don't want Dan's answers.

[B]

I think, again, we are heading into camp, so a lot is still to be decided. We're recording this on July 22nd. They don't necessarily need a number one guy right now. I think MVS is the most accomplished wide receiver in this room. I think he's wide receiver one. If we're starting tomorrow, lining up as wide receiver number one.

[C]

I don't agree.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I think it's Curtis Samuel.

[A]

I agree with Michael.

[C]

I think he is the most consistent performer.

[A]

Consistent is the key in that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I feel like drops have been such an issue for mvs, undeniable part of his game. That you look at the talent level and what the expectations are and some of the moments he's played in. Yes. But then you look at the consistency of play, and I think that's where you start to wonder, could this guy be the number one? Based on his history of. And those drops that he's had.

[B]

I think Samuel will line up 50, 50 between running back and wide receiver. I think he's going to be in the backfield. I think he is much more of a gadget. Gets a negative connotation. I don't think he's a gadget guy.

[C]

Today's Debo.

[A]

Yeah. That changes.

[C]

I mean, Debo is. It would be. It's like saying Kincade is Kelsey, like he's not. But do you want to him to play like him? And so when you say in the backfield, I mean in the backfield. But I mean, I don't want to see him getting 15 carries off tackle during a game.

[B]

No, but when I think of a number one wide receiver, I'm thinking of who's your ex on a consistent basis, who's going to line up as the X wide receiver. We're not trying to get inside the numbers here and break down all 22, but who's that guy that lines up on the outside a majority of the time? I think it's going to be mbs.

[C]

So if you were talking about the Niners in that case and you have Deebo and Aiyuk.

[B]

Correct.

[C]

I still think Debo was the number one guy.

[B]

And then Iuk number one guy and number one wide receiver I think are okay.

[C]

That's interesting.

[B]

Two different things. I think that Samuel could get the most touches out of this entire wide receiver room, but I don't think they're all going to be. I don't think he's going to be a guy that's going to catch eight passes necessarily a game.

[C]

Janet, I'm going to let you take this because I can sense there is people sitting at home screaming into their computers saying, why aren't you talking about Khalil Shakir being the number one guy?

[A]

I mean, I think that's fair because I think what we've seen from the Bills and just his usage at the end of last season, how much more involved he was, how much of a steady and guy he was, his ability to make big plays as well. I mean, when you talk about a guy on the outside, I think Cole can be inside and outside. So maybe in terms of that, it kind of deters from him always being on the outside in your view of that ex wide receiver. But that being said, like, yeah, I think. I think Khalil is a. Is the type of player that you want to see. Bill's fans certainly want to see his targets grow. And I think there is an opportunity for that. And I wouldn't be shocked if he is 1A or 1B and Curtis Samuel is 1A.

[C]

I'm afraid to think that way about Shakir.

[A]

Really.

[B]

So am I.

[C]

Only because I don't want the expectations to be set at a certain point and he could progress as I think he will progress. I think he's going to be a better player this year than he was last year. I'm just worried that people are going to think he turns into something he's not yet. That he could be. But it's a lot to go into another year again, can say what you want, but Diggs is not on the field, which. He's a gravity player. Like, they say that in basketball all the time. Gravity guy is the guy that brings the attention to him, and other guys can get shots because, you know, he can shoot. Diggs was that guy for this team. He just was.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And so you lose that. So it's. And it's also going to be a bit. A little fluid here. It's going to evolve, and it may be in different games in different times. I have a lot of hope for Shakir. I just don't want people to be thinking right away he's going to be 9 catches, 120 yards, and do it every. Every week, many weeks. I think he can get there.

[B]

Yeah, I think he's. When I look at Shakir, I think. And this is the biggest compliment I can give him, he has a very high floor.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

I think we know what we're going to get out of him. I don't think he necessarily has the highest ceiling out of this wide receiver room. I think he has the highest floor. I think he's the most dependable guy that we have seen.

[A]

That's an interesting point.

[B]

But I think he's. And again, I know there are people out there that are smarter than me, and you can clip that for you, because I see him being. I think he's best fit as a Welker. I think he's best fit as an Edelman. I think him eating up the middle of the field is where he does his best work. I know he can get down the field. I know people are talking about his 40 time, and it's the same as Diggs and all these things. His strengths to me, don't scream number one guy. And they could. And they could develop into that. But I look at this and I even say, like, Keon has a lower floor and a higher ceiling.

[C]

I agree with that.

[B]

Than Khalil Shakir. So, like, when I'm balancing my expectations going into the season, I think there are four or five guys that could easily all have 600, 700 yards. I don't know who that guy is going to be. That is the guy that goes for 1100.

[A]

You bring up Keon, Mike, where do you put him on your list?

[C]

Again, I want the expectations to Be massive.

[B]

Why not?

[C]

Right? Listen, the guy has personality wise. He got star written all over him.

[A]

Absolutely.

[C]

He just has that. It's just not every rookie receiver comes in at the number one guy. It does happen. I mean, there have been a few guys that just walked in and they're like they're the dude and they play that way. I think it's going to take him a little while. I think because he's not a veteran receiver. The rest of this group has a lot of snaps in the NFL. Yeah. They just don't have him with the Buffalo Bills. That's why we joke about Shakir being the only guy who's caught a pass as a wide receiver from Josh in a game. The other guys do. And I've been fascinated to see him. I want to see him again. Expectations where they are and then can he exceed those? It may be in a given matchup, in a given game, after he gets his feet under him a little bit. It would be awesome if he just walks out there and he's, you know, the guy they have a tough time guarding.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And that the other teams are pointing out, where's zero on this play. Right. I just think it's hard for many rookies to start out that way, but I think he does have the possibility. Like you talk about that high ceiling. Yeah, I think he does.

[B]

Again, I'd have him as my wide receiver too, if camp started tomorrow.

[A]

Keon.

[B]

Keon is too. Mbs Keon. Shakir would be my top three. And then again and then Samuel. Is that everywhere guy that's so interesting. I just think he's all over the place.

[C]

And by interesting you mean wrong.

[A]

No, I just think it's. It's like because you're talking about. You're not talking about carries. You're talking about like big play potential.

[B]

I'm talking about when I see. And I know also, I know these guys line up everywhere. I know Diggs lined up inside and outside. I just think of like what I expect. And a lot of this is also sounds funny, but it's like Shakir was really good as the number three. So like, I think he fits there in the roles that he played last year. I think Coleman can be a better Gabe Davis. So I'm almost trying to insert pieces in to fit the puzzle that they had last year and hopefully it's a better picture than what it was before.

[A]

Yeah. I just feel like they're going to rely on Shakir so much in terms of moving the chains. Like, I feel like he's going to be that guy that. That does that. You have Samuel that can add, like you said, some gadget opportunity, and then Keon, who's like your big play guy. Same with mbs. But I think it's all in how you look at it in terms of wide receiver one. That's why I. I say Samuel being a one or Samuel being one A, Shakir being one b. Because I think the Bills are really going to have a lot of focus in that short, intermediate area, middle of the field type of thing.

[B]

And let me say again, I. I have MVS as the one and Keon as the two when I don't really think either of. I don't think Keon in 20 other teams is the two, and I don't think MVS is a number one on any other team. It's just you're trying to hodgepodge this together to figure out what works.

[C]

And by the way, in terms of targets, I think we may all agree that Kincaid's gonna get the most.

[A]

Yes, I agree. I agree.

[C]

So we're not counting here.

[A]

Wow. Guys, we all agreed.

[C]

I know. And by the way, any other wide receiver we want to mention, Matt Collins.

[A]

He's firm. And, oh, Justin Shorter.

[B]

Justin Shorter, wide receiver 6.

[C]

You watch, Shorter's gonna just kick butt.

[B]

He's gonna have a preseason catch. And.

[A]

Oh, yeah, who's the training camp darling for the wide?

[B]

Could be shorter.

[A]

Could be shorter.

[C]

Isn't it Dan Fates?

[A]

Not in our hearts. Maybe. Maybe not everyone.

[B]

I will say for everybody. That's pretty mean in the comments. Everybody in person's pretty nice to me.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But I'm imagining we're go get a couple Dan is wrongs walking through training camp.

[C]

Oh, yeah. People say it all the time.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It's not.

[B]

Not usually. It's through a keyboard. Not necessarily to my face.

[C]

They text me.

[B]

Yeah, that's it.

[A]

Oh, God. You know what I got today? I was in the shoe store, and a woman stopped me, and she was like, you are so tall. I was like. I was like, wow. She's like, I knew you looked tall on tv, but you are so tall. I was like, okay, okay. Actually, you know, I'd rather have that than being wrong, so. So there's that. Okay. All right. Thank you to Keon's cookies for those questions. All right, let's move on now to what will Vaughn Miller be? That is the gravity of that question. It's hard to be as bad as he was last year. I mean, that would be. I don't want to Say, impossible, but it, it feels like that would be just treacherous for this Bills team. So I feel like he looks better. He seems like he's trending in the right direction, but it's like, where do you set the bar for him? Because we know Vaughn Miller, the Hall of Famer, we know what Von Miller was last year. Mike, where do you put kind of the benchmark at for this season?

[C]

Here's where I think you just have to forget about how much money he makes. He's on the roster.

[A]

See, that's. It's.

[C]

Yeah, he's on the roster still, but because he makes a lot of money, like it was a. That's a tough cut.

[A]

They can't wait to move on.

[C]

I think that's a day's coming. This is not the day yet. He's going to be on the roster. So then you say to yourself, if you're Sean McDermott, Bobby Babich, the entire defense, and you're saying, how do we use Von the most? Honestly, in my opinion, he should be a pass rushing specialist. You get the most out of him in that way. They need the guy who comes in the game, passing situations, gets after the quarterback. I think if Vaughn is going to be impactful in 2024, it's going to be in that role. It's a natural role for a guy who has played as many snaps as he has in his career to eventually play a little less. But be that guy who comes in. They tell you something. I take 30% of the snaps and very effective snaps. Then running him out there every down or close to every down or a majority of the downs and trying to see if he can make plays for you. I'd rather see him be the highly, highly paid specialist.

[A]

Do you have a certain number of sacks that you would want to see?

[B]

I think he's got to have a nine.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

To have a successful.

[C]

Oh, I'm thinking he's. He should if he's going to be that guy for them. Yeah, he needs, I'd say. I mean, there's nothing wrong with saying double digits. It's the NFL.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

10 sacks and 17 games. Yeah, I think if he's going to be there if he's not.

[A]

So I guess I would. I thought like, I mean, you want.

[B]

Him like a Jerry Hughes five.

[A]

No, no, that's. Honestly, my expectations are like five or six because I just feel like you.

[B]

Talked about him bouncing back, like obviously the season, yet it's tough to bounce back at 35.

[A]

That's what I'm saying.

[B]

Like that's where my level of concern is and my other level of. Yeah, I'm saying if I have a high level of concern. But you're asking me where he needs to be to have a successful season. It's got to be nine.

[A]

I just think that that to me seems so unattainable. It would have to be.

[B]

Look, you come, you comment in, well, how many sacks would it be for Von Miller to not forget last season, but to be have a productive year?

[C]

To Jenna's point, if there was plays last year where he just was not getting to the quarterback, he was non existent. Was non existent. So even if he got a couple of sacks like the majority of the time and I'm sitting there watching him and I'm going like, I'm sure you guys did too. Sometimes you're up there and I'm like, I just want to watch Von. I want to see what he's doing. You just didn't see it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

If that's the case, even if he gets a few, it's not impactful. You want to see him be a consistent pass rusher when he's in the game.

[B]

And the thing is what concerns me not only with Vaughn's age and trying to bounce back from all of that, they didn't add another pass rush. So Brandon Bean salary cap isn't real, but they added some backup backup edge rushers and they resigned AJ Epanessa. And if you go on ESPN right now and you look at the depth charts. AJ Epanessa. I know it's a depth chart. Don't roll your eyes at me. I'm not the one, I'm not the one that sets the depth chart on espn. This is what happens.

[C]

Who sets the depth chart on espn?

[B]

I don't know. Talk to them. Don't roll your eyes at me for.

[C]

Yeah, but you're using their depth chart to give you some sort of a thing here. They just making it up.

[B]

But it's. The fact is, is that I'm sitting there going, you need nine sacks for Vaughn to have a successful year. Like, I also don't know what AJ Is going to give. I like the sign. I'm not trying to sit here and play revisionist history. But like I want AJ the guy that to your point is coming off the bench and isn't in a starter's role. I don't think AJ Epanessa is a consistent starter or has proven that.

[C]

Then they're in trouble.

[B]

Well, that's what I'm saying. If you're Saying Von's going to be a spot guy. And I'm sitting here going, I think A.J. you know, I don't know if he's done enough to prove it, then who the hell's going to start and who's the guy that's going to be out there consistently? Obviously they have Greg Russo, but I'm sitting there and I'm looking. I'm going to.

[A]

They.

[B]

They need to find some sacks and I know there were some comments about David Myers was asking like they got to add somebody and maybe they do pick up a guy, you know, here, but at the address position. But I'm not overly thrilled with the options that the Bills are going to go with with pass rusher when the whole reason they signed Von was because after so many years of not being able to get after the quarterback, they got Von and now it looks like they're right back to where they started.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And Jenna didn't even have to roll her eyes at you with no. How about Javon Solomon? Can he give him anything?

[B]

Shout out brother Bill.

[A]

Yes. See what he can do. Stepping up. And.

[C]

But, but I think obviously I think at the end of camp or sometime during camp, a veteran pass rusher, Dave.

[A]

Myers wrote in two positions. I think the Bill should add a veteran. Edge or safety.

[C]

I don't know about the safety as much.

[B]

I'm fine with safeties.

[C]

I mean, they did bring in Mike Edwards.

[A]

He's saying edge though. I think that plays into what we are talking about. If anything, I think it would be corner for a veteran because maybe.

[B]

I don't know, Jim, really, I'm fine with safeties. I like the secondary.

[A]

I do too. But like, you don't really have a lot. Well, I guess you'd prove what Kyrie would be.

[C]

Makes a difference there in terms of. Okay, but in terms of pass rushers. Yes, it is a concern.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

Well, level of concern, 1 to 10.

[C]

Don't point at me.

[A]

What's your question? Level of concern around what?

[B]

The pass rusher. Pass rushers.

[C]

To me it's seven plus seven to eight.

[A]

I was going to say you're on Buffalo plus.

[C]

Well, I'm saying is seven plus. It is always a concern. It's concern in big moments. Even sometimes when teams put up numbers and you go, okay, and they had eight against the Washington commanders and they had. It was nine. They get all this. But then when you need that pass rush, you don't have the guy. Just like we talked about the receivers. It's great to have numbers.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

But Then when you need a play, who's there?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. All right. We did mention the safeties. No Poyer, no Hyde.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Are the safety set going into the seat?

[B]

Season sets an interesting.

[C]

I think we. We've lived with those two. Just put them out there.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And then you absolutely knew who they were. But we've also lived with moments. Certainly Hyde missed almost a whole season.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

Poyer missed time, Tough as nails, but he couldn't stay on the field all the time. And there was a period of time when they were both out, and then it became like, how are they going to play it? I don't know. I honestly don't know what they think of Cole Bishop in terms of can he move into that spot at some point? I think it's. If I'm guessing to start, I'm thinking it's probably going to be Mike Edwards and Taylor Rapp.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Oh, that's what I thought. Who did you think?

[B]

Demar. Wow.

[A]

I was going to ask if you thought Demar would, like, make the roster.

[B]

Looked good in OTAs.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

There's no. And. And again, I think we have to get back to demar Hamlin, the football player.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

I think you're the one making a. Not. Sorry.

[B]

No. Well, you're sitting there going, is he gonna make the team? Like, he was really good when he played. When he filled in for Mike Height, he had over a hundred tackles. He did like we like, again, you forget that because he almost. Because he died on the field, like, so. Like, you have to get back to giving him going from special teams guy to this back again.

[A]

He filled in well.

[B]

I played well.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They liked him. And again, Mike Edwards hasn't been able to get on the field. And we're not acting like Mike Edwards is some pro Bowler here. Mike Edwards is another guy that was a backup spot starter guy in the last two places that he's played. So it's not like they signed.

[C]

You're right.

[B]

A shoe in starter. I think there's going to be competition whether it's Bishop, whether it's Hamlin and Edwards.

[C]

Well, I. That's why, to Jenna's point, when you're asking this question is I don't think it's set. It needs to be set.

[B]

I don't think. I think it's set with. I don't think they go and add another safety to the position.

[C]

Yeah, I would say you already have.

[A]

I agree.

[C]

A couple of veterans in Rap and Edwards. Hamlin's been in the circumstances. And then you Drafted a guy.

[A]

My assumption is, though, it's Edwards and Taylor.

[C]

That's the way I look.

[A]

That's. Yeah.

[C]

Can't wait to be right. Oh, wait.

[A]

So, wait, is this your hot take?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay. Who would you think you would start over? Edwards.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I haven't even seen Edwards play.

[A]

I mean, that is true. I. I hear that you can't even. I don't have hot chicks.

[B]

You actually thought that was serious?

[A]

Okay. Interesting discussion.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

All right, let's continue on.

[B]

We're getting. This is our training camp. We're getting fiery.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The videos every day.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Just buckle up.

[A]

And a reminder, you can always find our podcast. Both available on YouTube as well. Wherever you find your audio podcasts.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Look at that. Seamless. Okay. No, Poyer, not hide. Let's talk Matt Milano. What will Milano look like, and how impactful is that? I would say pretty impactful.

[C]

I think they're going to be smart with Milano. Right. You have a whole nother month to ramp him up.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I knows the defense.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I wouldn't be surprised if he's somewhat limited during camp. Like, you know, guys only have so many snaps in them. He's coming back from a serious injury. You mentioned it. You were on WGR radio. Dan was saying, it's great to see him out there. We've talked about it on the channel, but there's no reason to just, you know, I mean, Terrell Bernard was, you know, this close to playing in the last game. Milano was not. So I think you can bring him along. I think the guy is an exceptional player, but I don't think there's a reason to put that to the full test for a little while in camp. So he may not. He may not be getting all the reps and all the time, because they're gearing him up for.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

For the start of the season, play.

[A]

It safe, play it slow.

[C]

But they're going to want to see him.

[A]

Yeah. I think there's a balancing act with that, though.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Considering what kind of injury he had and the severity of that and how much time he was out, you want him to be ready for the season, but you also. I feel like you kind of slow. Play it a little bit because you don't want to do.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. You're. You're aiming week one to really kind of let the reins off.

[C]

Isn't it funny? It's like, let me think of last year, and it was like Terrell Bernard was coming off an injury, hadn't done anything. We weren't sure. And then he just goes out week one and he's ready to go.

[B]

Yeah. And that's where. Another reason I didn't say it. That's another reason why I think I'm still expecting to see a very high level of Matt Milano. I know the injuries. Injury was bad. And if we've learned anything, knee injuries are not oil changes. Only an idiot would say that. And you go from it, but you understand the fact that Milano and Bernard, when they were together were a damn good combo for those four games. So it's nice when you have a guy next to you that is also making splash plays. And that was Edmonds, you know, Achilles heel was that he couldn't really make those. So I expect to see the same high level of Milano flying around and kind of seeing the same. I'm expecting to see the same caliber of play.

[A]

Yeah. No, I agree. And I think that would be. I mean, talk about exciting for Bills fans, just what that would mean for that team.

[C]

I will say I think fans are going to get excited about Dorian Williams this year because you're going to see him a lot in camp. You're going to see him a lot in the preseason.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And that guy is an athlete.

[A]

He is.

[C]

He is going to be flying around the field and he's learning what's going on. Even when he played, when they put him in, was it. What game was it during the year when he played due to injury and they basically had to sit him down like he didn't anticipate properly. It might have been. It was. Maybe it was even earlier because then.

[B]

Spectre came in after it.

[A]

I think they really like Balen Spector, though. I do.

[C]

I mean, he's a.

[B]

He's special teamer.

[C]

He is. I think they back up, you know.

[B]

Get some snaps, break glass in case of emergency.

[A]

I think they are higher up than that on him. But I hear you. I think Dorian Williams is.

[B]

I think Dorian's got a very high ceiling as a athletic freak.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But we've heard Bobby Babbage talk about the way that you go from Tulane with a playbook of this big to a playbook, an NFL playbook of this big. And it's very tough to be thinking and reacting as fast as Dorian Williams plays.

[C]

What Terrell Bernard say, like year one.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

He had a Giants game or something like that and he said he was. Head was spinning.

[C]

Yeah. And then give him that year being around everything. That's why it's. We don't. We do it. We. Well, we judge Players. I mean, guys are getting judged at minicamps before they've played in the game. Like, this guy's no good.

[B]

Xavier Worthy's already going to be a Pro Bowler.

[C]

You guys have seen that play.

[A]

That did hurt, though.

[C]

It is.

[B]

That's me.

[C]

If I was Kansas City and I see that play, I'm like, man, our defense is in trouble. Seriously. He got behind that lousy defense.

[A]

That is a spin zone. Spins.

[C]

Oh, my God. I had a few. I tweeted that I had a few Chiefs fans. Like, it's. But I'm like, oh, my God. Just have a sense of humor. For God's. Yes.

[B]

I mean, two Super Bowls.

[A]

Did you see a stick out of.

[B]

Your butt for a second?

[C]

Like, I mean, seriously. And where they can run. I made the joke that, wow, their defense, you know, gave up a big.

[B]

Susceptible to deep shots.

[C]

Yeah. And people are like, yeah, well, you're. I'm like, oh, shut up. Seriously.

[A]

Yeah, it's a good one. Little spin zone.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

All right. You mentioned Babbage. I think coordinators. That will be really massive something to watch this. This training camp defensively will be Babbage calling the plays and taking over from McDermott. How do we think that dynamic will be? We've. We've seen them around each other, obviously, quite a bit over the years, but now with Babbage taking over the defensive responsibilities, in terms of being the coordinator, do you expect to see it be like, kind of that collaboration, or do you think it will be Babbage kind of asserting himself more?

[B]

I think Bobby will call the plays week one. I think that Mike and I were talking about it before we got on here. It's a lot easier to make a midseason change and for McDermott to take the play calling back than Sean in the middle of the season, all of a sudden saying, hey, here are the keys. So I think that we talked about it before. Babbage did had other opportunities. I don't know why he would. I mean, there's a couple of reasons why he likes being in Buffalo and all those things, but if you got a chance to say, hey, Sean, am I going to be calling plays? There had to be some inkling of, I want you to be the guy it. To take something off of Sean's plate. It will be a collaboration, just like Sean had an input on Leslie's defense, like, but it will be, I think, Bobby Babbage calling plays.

[A]

I want to see how he does kind of assert himself this training camp, because I think he will be calling the plays as well, because you're not turning down other opportunities to essentially be still the number two on a team defensively. So I'm. I'm just. I mean, he is a loud. A guy that, you know, brings a lot of juice. The players really seem to love him. I'm just curious how it will look in now in terms of training camp, what that process will be like for him, and just kind of seeing Mike, like, what. What that will look like. Because for so long, it had been Leslie Frazier and then it was McDermott, and now it's like a guy who's been with the team but is also so young.

[C]

Yeah, he is, but he's been around. He's been with Sean. He's coached at different levels. He's ready for this. You do have an exceptional play caller. Sorry to some of you in Sean McDermott as a defensive coach who's been around, coach some tremendous defenses. I mean, obviously in. In, you know, in Carolina, took a team to the super bowl as defensive coordinator, and he's done a very good job in Buffalo. We've talked about that a lot. To Dan's point, when he was. He and I were talking about it. You have the whole off season, all the OTAs, the minicamps, the training camp. That's when you get Bobby Babich, where he's ready to call these plays, and then Sean McDermott is there. I mean, sometimes I think people think this is. Bobby Babbage just sits there and goes, it's my defense now, and I'm going to call it. On offense, Joe Brady just says, it's all me. There is collaboration. There is the moment where the guy is calling the play.

[B]

Correct.

[C]

And maybe with McDermott, maybe there's a little more influence there with the head coach that goes on. Andy Reid has a huge amount of input on what the Kansas City Chiefs do. Because he's Andy Reid.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And doing that. And I think they get Babbage ready and then let him go. Because, you know, we were saying, you don't say, oh, week six, we got the Dolphins. Just. I'm not looking at the schedule. Let's let Bob take over the place. Yeah, it's not going to happen that way.

[B]

I was surprised.

[A]

Have Robert.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

I was surprised by the. I mean, maybe I should have assumed, but sometimes not in the building, how close the relationship is with Babich and McDermott coming up and kind of being a mentor to him and all that. And he talked about how, you know, Babbage talked about the press conference during OTAs about you never know you're ready until you're ready, you're trying to do it. I joked around that was like being a parent, like, you just, yeah, I'm ready. For a kid, you don't know shit yet until it's hitting the fan. Literally, with diapers and stuff like that. Like, so that. That. I like the awareness from Babich. I like the fact that he's called. He's worked with the safeties, he's worked with linebackers. I like all that familiarity, top to bottom. I think. I think it'd be a nice adjustment. Flare, slight curveball, change of pace with fresh eyes on the play calling. But again, I think it's still going to be a damn good defense. A lot of the reason, because Sean McDermott is the head coach.

[C]

Quickly shout out to Bob Babbage, senior, yes, subscriber to Buffalo Plus.

[A]

That was wild.

[C]

Came up to us at camp at a minicamp.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And he was like, they love watching it, so we appreciate that. Plus the name.

[A]

It was one of those moments, though, when someone's looking at you and you think they're looking behind you. You're like, they can't be looking at me. Like, who's behind me?

[C]

Well, I mean, I certainly remember Dan is wrong.

[B]

It's like every morning I wake up with a Dan is wrong cup of coffee.

[C]

And by the way, the name works. Either Bob or Bobby. It's a cool name to say. It's either Bob Babbage or Bobby B. Both of them work.

[A]

Yeah, the alliteration.

[C]

It's great.

[A]

Yeah, it's a great name. All right. Talking about Babbage, though, Brady, on the other side of things, obviously we again have familiarity with him taking over at the second half of last season. I know. Ken Dorsy, you had reservation, Stan, just about how it would go. You're given the keys to the Lamborghini. To a guy that's really. Doesn't have a lot of experience. It's a great analogy. Now, I know you feel differently about Brady, but why?

[B]

Because he's failed before. That was my. That was my one concern was the. The level of being worried about a guy that hasn't been there. And Babbage actually talks about it. I haven't called plays before. I know I'm going to make mistakes. It's rolling with those punches kind of thing. The fact that Brady has struggled is learning from those. Has had success, whether it was at lsu, you know, and now all of a sudden, in that small sample size, I don't think it's. It's tough for me to compare the sample size that we saw at the end of last year, which is the good and the bad. But he was kind of a chef without getting to pick his ingredients for his meals. So now he's going and he's the one that gets to go shopping for his ingredients to make the dishes. That's where there's a lot of pressure on what the identity. And it's so funny, we've been at times over the last few years, what is the identity of the Bills offense? What is their one thing they can depend on? And sometimes it's just been Josh Allen taking off and trying to hurdle linebackers. But there are so many new faces for Joe Brady to work with. So while there is. I think there's a lot of pressure under him this training camp, because all of this where at times it's like, oh, the offense had a bad day. Who cares? It's Diggs, it's Allen, it's these guys. You know what to expect. I don't know what to expect. Like, I expect Josh to play well. I expect Joe Brady to be creative in those things. But there is pressure to get the oven turn, you know, preheated now to.

[C]

Be ready while you're making your cooking analogies.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

The hall of Fame coach, Bill Parcels. Oh, you know that. Yes. Okay. Well, it's a little before your time. He said if you're going to make the meal, they should let you shop for the groceries. Now, that was more about drafting players and picking players. I do agree with that. But to your point, he also doesn't have the players that you've come to depend on.

[B]

Correct.

[C]

So it'll be interesting to see how much different it is. Because it's already different. Yeah, like it was going to be different because you changed. You changed the center on the offensive line and moved, you know, moved him over and then you changed the whole wide receiver room, basically. Yep. And so you've. You've taken a different approach roster wise. So it was going to change no matter what. Yeah, but I think he's walking in here with, he'll have a full training camp and the preseason and all those things.

[A]

I do think the pressure is on early, though, for him to look good. What's it called when you're cooking and you, like, prep all your food, me in place? I think it is okay, probably. Absolutely.

[B]

No, I think you're right, because remember, we got. We got in this discussion.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

I said it was the Holy Trinity and That's just carrot, celery and onion pepper.

[A]

Onion, carrot, celery.

[C]

Yeah, sure.

[A]

Okay, whatever. But me's in place. You have to bees in class. Yeah, okay. Again, butchered it. But essentially, it's how prepped you are before you make your meal, having all that prep ready so that you can make it as efficient and effective as possible. And it's like training camp, really is that for these guys and for Brady, I think there is a lot of pressure for him to have it look good out of the jump. Because we all know how narratives work, Right. Like, obviously at training camp, when you're having new faces and all this stuff, it's going to be a little bit slower. But if there's a lot of headlines that the office offense is consistently struggling, what are they looking like? It's not going well. Like, that will play nationally and be talked about. And what are you talking about?

[C]

People will be very patient. That's the way it is in the NFL. Five, six weeks, just.

[A]

Oh, yeah, do your thing.

[C]

It's like spring training hitting. And maybe the first month, people don't care. They really won't care at all.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

But in years past, I really haven't cared. I remember even the preseason game, the Steelers, they looked awful.

[A]

That is.

[B]

And I said, who cares? Because you know what the dishes are going to come out at when it comes to week one.

[C]

Yeah. And then the year.

[A]

That's actually very true. We were all like, oh, my God. Scared. You're like, guys.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But hold on.

[C]

They also played the Green Bay game.

[B]

So I was right.

[C]

Hold on. They also hold on. And the offense was tremendous in that Green Bay game. Josh just lit him up. They kept him in the game till, like, the third quarter. And then they came out and were horrendous against the Steelers in the first game of the season because everybody was like, oh, they're ready to go. So it works either way, too. You can think.

[B]

No, it only works the way I want it.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Don't roll your eyes at me.

[B]

I'm really into the Bear.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Deep in the third season.

[C]

Oh, no.

[B]

The Napkins episode with Tina.

[A]

Top five better than Forks.

[B]

Not as good as forks.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That episode, Napkins was really good.

[C]

Love the Bear.

[A]

Yeah. Watching that right now. All right. I do think, too, the reason I have more faith in Brady, just real quick ending note is I feel like he's able to call, like, play sequences a lot, but I feel like Dorsey calling, he would call, like, plays. Whereas I feel like Joe Brady can sequence things better.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's why I feel like. And I just feel like his rapport with Josh is. Is different in a good way.

[C]

Dorsey's gonna have a big year in Cleveland then, right? Because he's failed before.

[B]

He's better off than he was.

[A]

Okay, last thing.

[B]

Jerk.

[A]

Bonus. A bonus special teams. That to me, we usually when the special teams coordinator talks over the years of camp would be like, get a coffee. Want to take a lap? This will be very interesting this season with the new kickoff stuff with just. In general what Tyler Bass is doing. You know, I don't even know. Not to say I don't know what to make of it, but I just feel like that's. That's going to be a very new wrinkle to the game in general.

[C]

We don't know what to make of it because they don't know what to make of it yet. I think there's a thought around the league. It's either going to be the new kickoff rules, and you guys have seen them, where, you know, you're lining the teams up five. I think it's five yards apart down the field, so it's not the running down the field. I think there's a thought around this league that it's either going to be nothing happens or guys are breaking long plays all the time because they don't know. And it's a difficult thing. I won't say difficult to practice, but it is.

[B]

Yes. Oh, it is.

[C]

To simulate what it's going to be.

[B]

Like in a game to fly down the field. One of my friends played Division one football and the special teams coach before, like, kickoffs would say, pull the pin.

[C]

Yeah. Like, but now you're not running down the field.

[B]

Right. But it's also tough in that same aspect to simulate a kickoff at full speed in practice.

[C]

I'm also thinking, like, will teams line guys up and then drop them into coverage? Basically, because otherwise all you got is the kicker back there.

[B]

Right. So he kicks it deep. I know we've had a few comments, whether it's on Twitter or about what are our opinions on skills. I don't like talking about things I don't know anything about.

[C]

Yes, you do.

[A]

You really set yourself up for that.

[B]

Walked into that one. But I just have no idea. I. But I will pay attention more at camp this year when they do special teams. But besides that, I have no idea what to expect.

[C]

I mean, the kickoff became just almost worthless. I mean, so many of them go out of the end zone or, you know, so they're trying to make it more interesting.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And take away some of the injury risk.

[A]

Do the Bills have a kicking problem, Dan?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay. Heard it here first.

[C]

I am rooting for Tyler Bass, but.

[B]

I will be starting his kick. Stirring.

[C]

I am rooting for Tyler Bass because I think he's a good player and I think he's been a good. But Dan's all in on this. So if it goes the other way, that is. Flip the. Flip the cup.

[A]

He took the mug away. Oh, it's up there.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

There is a little bit of. Just digging my heels in on this one. Really need a big bounce back here for Tyler. Come on. Digging my heels in.

[A]

Okay, let's answer just a couple questions real quick. Sure. Shabani Chatterjee.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Wrote in. How safe is McDermott. McDermott's job?

[B]

About as safe as safe can get.

[C]

Yeah. I see these dim wits. They're talking about Bill Belichick coming to B. Bill Belichick is not coaching the Buffalo Bills. No, they're not doing that.

[B]

No.

[C]

I mean, you have Brandon Bean as your general manager. It just doesn't make any sense to me at all. Bill Belichick to be Bill Belichick. He wants to come in now, does that change after a year where he didn't get hired and he would come in? I guess I just do not see this Buffalo Bills organization making that call. And what would have to. Sean McDermott, again, you have to say to yourself, this guy has to take you to the next step. And obviously Bill Belichick has done that six times in his career as a head coach, but not in the last how many years. And it was not great for him at the end in New England. Do not see that as a fit. That would be alarming to think that the Bills would one, consider moving on from McDermott and two, that you would do that for a defensive head coach when you have Josh Allen as your quarterback.

[B]

Yeah, you would need to be historically bad. You would have to be publicly embarrassing as a franchise to move on. And the kicker we always don't talk about is, I don't think Terry Pegula wants to pay another coach not to be coaching. Like we always. Fans always say, fire the coach, fire the coach. And they always go, you pay him 30 something million dollars not to be here.

[C]

The only plus is I think McDermott would earn another job quickly. I mean, he's turned this organization around and then they get an offset of the money. So whatever he's making, he's not getting fired. He's not getting fired.

[A]

I I agree. And I think especially after last season and kind of the trials and tribulations he went through as a coach, the team did as well and they rallied and they rallied around him.

[C]

I'm trying to remember what happened.

[A]

I just think that they are immensely connected and they are. They're riding with their guy.

[C]

Yes. And Bean too, by the way. Yep. I mean, a lot of you jump right in on McDermott, think Bean's done an overall very, very good job. It's a big year for him.

[A]

It is a big year for him.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Hair stuck on my finger. Okay, questions. How do the Bills and Chiefs rosters match up? Where do the Bills have the roster edge? Frank Deal wrote that in secondary.

[B]

Bill's roster advantage, I think defensively at linebacker and at secondary.

[A]

Linebacker. Yes.

[C]

Yeah. And secondary, maybe overall. Yeah. It's hard to say. That's the only team in the league that I would say you don't have an advantage at quarterback.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

The only one. Yeah.

[C]

Advantage. Now you could. You make arguments for other players to be close to Josh, whatever you think. Obviously some people think Burrow, which he's proven that at times. But there's some other players that are very good. You wouldn't say wide receiver. You wouldn't say necessarily Offensive line, defensive line. Again, I don't think. I think that the Chiefs have done a great job of redoing that team in many ways and still maintaining the level that they've been at, which is kind of what the Bills are trying to do, except to take another step up. You're the two time super bowl champs and it's tough to. It's tough to say that there's an area that you're considerably better.

[A]

You saw that ESPN, BET tweet. That's like, will the Chiefs be the first team to win?

[B]

You had a funny gift.

[A]

Three. Yeah.

[B]

It's 97 degrees in this room.

[A]

It's so hot.

[B]

You're in a quarter zip.

[C]

Yeah, I'm very comfortable.

[A]

It's.

[B]

It's so hot.

[C]

Here it is.

[A]

Okay, let's do one last question then. Our hot takes really fast.

[B]

Hotter than this room.

[A]

Yeah. Todd H76 wrote in, who do you think is under the radar heading into camp? Always love that question.

[B]

I think Todd, in his question, brought up Dwayne Carter and Ray Davis again. Haven't really seen anything out of Ray Davis because he's been battling an injury during minicamps and OTAs. Dwayne Carter is an interesting one because that's not a position that you really get wowed by like you can eat, you know, like, Daquan Jones was really good and he just ate up blocks and free things up for other people. So I think Demar could be an under the radar guy.

[C]

Yeah, that.

[B]

That again, we're. We're forgetting the football player. But I don't try to think of Justin Shorter, obviously.

[A]

Who do you think will be a training camp darling?

[C]

Justin Shorter. Well, we really didn't get a chance. We saw him a little bit. Then he hurt the hamstring last year.

[A]

What'd you say?

[B]

The bit is just so good.

[C]

That's not what I thought he said.

[A]

I was like, what are we.

[C]

That's a training camp darling. Everybody likes the training camp. Charlie. She's gonna keep laughing.

[B]

She's lost it.

[A]

Not high.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Sorry.

[C]

I'm gonna go back to Dorian Williams under the ring.

[B]

That's a good pick.

[C]

And again, because we're going to be seeing how Milano progresses and Adorean Williams is going to get snaps, I think during camp, during the preseason, maybe even during the season. Like, I don't know how they're going to play things with Milano, so I think they feel pretty good about him.

[A]

I think Zach Davidson. Ah.

[B]

I was gonna say Zach Davidson.

[A]

I think he will be the training camp darling.

[C]

She beat me to is the twerking is.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Zach Davidson put on a show for us at a minicamp.

[A]

Yes. Caught a touchdown. Twerked in the end zone.

[C]

That's to remind me of what Jenna already did. Thank you, Jenna.

[A]

Yeah. Look at me. That's something.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And. And it. It was not as well received by the defense.

[A]

Yeah. Honestly, the offense.

[B]

Matt Collins didn't like.

[A]

Yeah. I was truly impressed.

[B]

Matt Collins could be a training camp darling. Personality wise.

[C]

He'll be signing a lot on.

[A]

That's a good. Yeah.

[B]

Not signing a lot of shoes. Not wearing shoes. We're gonna sit down with him early on in camp. The most interesting player.

[A]

That's gonna be a good story on the Bill's roster.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Doesn't use silverware. Just eats with his hands.

[A]

That's. With his hands. That's a choice.

[C]

I get grief sometimes. I'll use my hand on the plate for something. And Jenny, my wife.

[A]

What do you mean?

[C]

You know, like you're trying to pick something off the plate and you might instead of using a knife and together that's fair game. Oh, no, not with her. Like, if you put your hand.

[B]

She's like five star. Dining at the.

[C]

No Catalina house. She's like, that's disgusting.

[A]

I think it's gross when people eat. Like.

[C]

Well, I'm not grabbing.

[B]

No, he's talking about, like, the fork.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And using the.

[A]

Oh, you just use the fork. The knife.

[B]

So you always have. Do you set out five stars?

[C]

You always ask, do we need a knife for dinner tonight? Like, I'll always say, what do we need?

[A]

I do. I agree with Jenny.

[C]

Of course you do.

[A]

Okay, hot takes. Other than it's a billion degrees in this room.

[B]

Go ahead, Jenna. You bet. Lead off.

[A]

No, I'm not good at this.

[B]

You got one, Mike.

[C]

I'm waiting for you. Because you have to start it out.

[B]

No, see, why do I have to start it out?

[A]

Because you're gonna have eight.

[B]

I only got one, and I'm just sticking to it. I will say, this season, MVS will have more receiving yards than Shakir.

[A]

Interesting. Okay, I have a hot take.

[C]

Go ahead.

[A]

I think Shakir will have more receiving yards than mbs. That's how you know you got a mad when they just do that noise. Okay, we should bet on it. What do we want to bet?

[C]

Hold on.

[B]

I still owe you beer.

[C]

Yeah, you still owe me beer.

[A]

Dang.

[C]

I'm gonna say Curtis Samuel has more receiving yards than either one of those players. That's our bet.

[A]

I like that.

[C]

Okay, I have Curtis Samuel, you have K, Justin Shorter, and you have MVs.

[A]

Okay, deal. We should also do our season predictions. Yeah, but, like, we should have a bet or something that goes into that.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

Okay, we got time.

[C]

Just. Do you have to pay up the bet or be like Dan and not pay up the bet?

[A]

I don't. I mean, I would never. So embarrassing.

[B]

Yeah, I'm on that.

[A]

What was the beer?

[B]

Six pack of.

[C]

It was six pack against a case.

[A]

I tried a land shark.

[C]

Phenomenal.

[A]

Really good. Never had that before.

[B]

Very good beer.

[A]

Very tasty.

[B]

Boat beer. Lake beer.

[A]

Yeah, I had it after volleyball.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Big fan.

[B]

That's not on a boat or.

[A]

It's a beach volleyball. Beach volleyball.

[C]

How did you play? You would think long.

[A]

I think. I think when. When people see me walk on the court, they're like, oh. And then they watch me play, they're like, oh. Okay. We want to thank everyone for joining us. Please be sure to, like, comment, subscribe, subscribe as well as share. We are approaching training camp. A reminder. We will be posting daily videos of what happened at camp. Who stood out for a good reason, who stood out for probably not so great reason, as well as what the players and coaches are saying. You can find that in every video available on the Buffalo plus YouTube channel again. Like comment, subscribe. Also available, an audio podcast, so be sure to subscribe to that wherever you listen to your podcast. For Mike Catalana and Dan Fates, I am Jenna Cotrell. Thank you so much for listening over this offseason period. We truly appreciate it. We'll catch you. We made it.

[B]

Next time, you'll hear us.

[A]

Training camp, training camp.

[B]

Football's back.

[A]

All right, love you guys. We'll see you next time.