Beane & McDermott on the BILLS' Chiefs 'PROBLEM', KICKING the DOOR and Buffalo's MINDSET for 2025

Summary

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Buffalo Plus: A Buffalo Bills Podcast

Episode Summary:

Title: Beane & McDermott on the Bills' Chiefs 'Problem', Kicking the Door, and Buffalo's Mindset for 2025
Date: January 31, 2025
Hosts: Mike Catalana, Jenna Cottrell, Dan Fates

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Episode Theme & Purpose

The Buffalo Plus team breaks down the end-of-season press conferences from GM Brandon Beane and Head Coach Sean McDermott after another season ending with a playoff loss to the Kansas City Chiefs. The episode explores the Bills’ ongoing struggle to overcome the Chiefs, the mindset and adjustments heading into 2025, assessments of key players, and the overall direction of the franchise. The hosts offer detailed reactions, inside perspective, and discussion of fan frustrations, transition, and where blame and optimism are justified.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Press Conference Vibes: Beane vs. McDermott

• Sean McDermott’s demeanor: Considered "comfortable but not whatever” (03:00), coming off as processed and measured after multiple post-game addresses.
• Brandon Beane’s demeanor: Notably "raw" and "defensive," (04:39) acknowledging he's “still emotional” and “not going to make any rash decisions” (03:50) so soon after the defeat.
• Quote:

  “We need to evaluate it. The loss is still raw.” - Dan Fates paraphrasing Beane (04:05)

2. Who Gets the Blame? McDermott vs. Beane

• The team discusses shifting fan and media blame from McDermott for in-game decisions to Beane for roster construction and first-round draft picks, especially as high selections have had underwhelming performances or minimal impact.
• Quote:

  “The drum beat about Sean McDermott is constant.” – Mike Catalana (06:16)

3. Perspective on the Chiefs ‘Hump’

• The conversation often references the Bills' inability to “get over the hump” against the Chiefs, but context is stressed: KC is a historically great team—a comparison is made to 1990s NBA Eastern Conference teams who couldn't get past Michael Jordan.

• Quote:

  “It’s a historic hump.” – Dan Fates (14:10)
  “That’s a terrible thing you just said.” – Mike Catalana (14:13)

• Frustration is balanced by respect for how consistently the Bills are near the top of the AFC, even if they haven’t broken through.

4. Beane’s 'Keep Kicking the Door' Mentality

• Beane, when pressed about the narrative, strongly insists on persistence rather than teardown:

  “Keep kicking the door. Keep kicking the door and you’re going to knock it down. That is my mentality. That is our mentality. We are not giving in... All that’s doing is making our chip bigger.” – Brandon Beane (11:18)

5. Comparisons and Second-Best Syndrome

• They acknowledge that, while the Bills may be the second-best team in the NFL, being consistently blocked by the Chiefs is both an indicator of accomplishment and a source of acute frustration.
• Reference is made to Andy Reid’s Philadelphia tenure (16:07), drawing parallels to McDermott's current experience.

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Player Evaluations & Roster Discussion

6. Dalton Kincaid Critique

• Kincaid’s second season is dissected:

  • Expectations weren’t met; he needs to get stronger and more durable.
  • Both Beane and McDermott stress that while he has talent and toughness, he’s got to be more impactful.
  • Quotes:

    “Dalton makes those plays and it never comes down to just one play... my confidence, our confidence in Dalton is extremely high... he has to get to a level of health and strength.” – Sean McDermott (28:38)
    “Dalton didn’t have the year we expected, nothing for any particular reason except some durability things... he’s a big part of our plans moving forward.” – Brandon Beane (30:01)

• Hosts express concern that the “needs more strength” narrative is still present after two seasons.

7. Keon Coleman and Xavier Worthy Draft Fallout

• Coleman’s rookie year was hampered by injury and inconsistency post-injury.
  • Beane admits: “I did not see the same player after the injury. I wish he finished the season stronger.” (35:57)
• The trading of the pick to Kansas City (which they used to draft Worthy) is still a sore spot, especially as Worthy was impactful in the Bills-Chiefs game.
• Acknowledgment that evaluating the results of that deal will take years, but perception is stinging now.
• Quote:

  “You’re never getting that one back… that game was there for the taking.” – Mike Catalana (38:46)

8. Kair Elam’s Future

• Brutally honest: McDermott said Elam’s playoff performance “did not go well.” (46:37)
• Hosts conclude he’s likely done in Buffalo: “They cannot trust him in a game... they have to move on from him in this offseason.” – Mike Catalana (47:52)

9. Other Roster/Coaching Evaluations

• Concerns over Matt Milano’s role and durability mirror the post-injury narrative around Tre’Davious White.
• Special Teams Coordinator Matthew Smiley will “be back” per McDermott, but hosts are skeptical and discuss the elevated blunders in that phase all season (52:25).

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Process, Mindset & Approaches

10. Team Building Philosophy: Chiefs-Focused or Not?

• Hosts ask Beane/McDermott if they build the roster specifically to beat KC; both say no—they focus on winning the division, but acknowledge the Chiefs are the obstacle.
• Quote:

  “If you don’t win the championship, if you come up short like we did and like we have, that’s what people are going to say. Can you guys win the big one? We just have to keep kicking the door down.” – Brandon Beane (42:07)

11. Adjustment & Growth from Sean McDermott

• Hosts dispel the narrative that McDermott is rigid or doesn’t adjust, citing specific changes in defensive approach this postseason.
• Quote:

  “Against the Chiefs, they played man more than they had all season long. It’s not that Sean is just sitting there going, it’s my way... he’s adapted. That’s part of what gives me confidence... this was Sean McDermott’s best season as a coach.” – Dan Fates (20:38)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On the constant Chiefs obstacle:

  “The Chiefs are really, really good. They are. And it’s so annoying because it’s like, oh, the Bills can’t get over the hump... this is a historic team that the Bills can’t get through.” – Jenna Cottrell (00:12, repeated theme/group discussion)

• On perspective and persistence:

  “If I don’t know what else you expect to do, I mean, other than if you think we should blow the roster up or strip it down. That is not how I see this... Keep kicking the door.” – Brandon Beane (11:18)

• On the narrative burden:

  “If you don’t win the championship... that’s what people are going to say. Can you guys win the big one? We just have to keep kicking the door down.” – Brandon Beane (42:07)

• On defensive growth:

  “Sean played man more than they had all season long [against the Chiefs]. He’s adapted.” – Dan Fates (21:38)

• On Kair Elam:

  "Kair went in there and it did not go well." – Sean McDermott relayed by Dan Fates (46:39)

• On current fan sentiment:

  "It feels very discouraging, like it feels very daunting to go and win against the Chiefs... But I felt refreshed today." – Jenna Cottrell (54:42)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• General Press Conference Reactions: 01:30–05:32
• Shifting Blame: McDermott vs. Beane: 05:32–08:55
• Chiefs Hurdle and Historic Context: 10:16–17:15
• Brandon Beane Soundbite - Kicking the Door: 11:18–12:46
• Comparisons to 90s NBA, Andy Reid’s Eagles: 14:55–16:41
• Roster Construction and First-Round Picks Debate: 23:23–31:50
• Kincaid & Keon, Worthy Trade, Impactful Young Players: 28:38–39:01
• Chiefs-Focused Team Building?: 40:08–43:11
• Special Teams Discussion: 51:28–54:08
• Final Reflections & Outlook: 54:42–59:09

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Tone & Takeaways

Throughout, the hosts maintain a candid, sometimes comical but passionate tone—balancing humor (“historic hump”), frustration, and nuanced optimism. They acknowledge both the undeniable accomplishments under Beane and McDermott and the acute distress of falling short, especially against a modern dynasty.

Bottom Line:
The episode underscores how close the Bills are—but not close enough. The staff and management are committed not to drastic changes but persistent refinement and growth ("keep kicking the door"). Player development, health, and more impact from high draft picks are critical. Perspective is offered to fans: heartbreak is justified, but the process and direction remain sound.

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For More Coverage:
Visit Buffalo Plus on YouTube or their Link Tree for further analysis and offseason updates.

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Transcript

[Jenna Cottrell]

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[Brandon Bean]

Thanks.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Have a good one. Yep, that too. Want one place to manage all your online and in person sales? That's kind of our thing. Wherever you sell. Businesses that grow, grow with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 a month [e-mail] Listen. Shopify.com Listen. The Chiefs are really, really good. They are. And it's so annoying because it's like, oh, the Bills can't get over the hump. The Bills can't get over the hump. But it's like, this is a historic team that the Bills can't get through. Like, it makes sense because of how fantastic the Chiefs are.

[Dan Fates]

It's a historic hump.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, yeah, it's.

[Mike Catalana]

That's a terrible thing you just said.

[Dan Fates]

There's the open. Oh, my God.

[Mike Catalana]

You said it so dramatically, too.

[Dan Fates]

This is the Buffalo plus podcast, brought to you by Connors and Ferris.

[Jenna Cottrell]

All right, welcome back to the Buffalo plus channel, presented by Connors and Ferris, Mike Catalana, Dan Fates, I am Jenna Cottrell. Please be sure to, like, comment, subscribe and share. We always appreciate it. Today's episode, we're going to be breaking down what Brandon bean and Sean McDermott had to say in their end of the season press conferences, the vibe in Buffalo. We're also going to talk about some players, their future, all of that. So let's get into it. But first and foremost, I just want to start with Mike. What was the general vibe you got? So Brandon Bean spoke to us, Sean McDermott spoke to us. Combined, they talked to us for over two hours. We got in a lot of questions, but let's first start with Bean because he talked first.

[Dan Fates]

Felt like a travel trip. With Catalana, well, this was.

[Mike Catalana]

Why did I take a stray there? I didn't do anything.

[Dan Fates]

You knew it was coming. You knew it was.

[Mike Catalana]

No, what I was going to say is there was a lot of questions because, you know, especially with Brandon Bean, we don't speak to him. He speaks more than a lot of general managers, but we don't speak to him as often. And it's. It's a continuation of the game, but in this case, because it's. They. They play the Chiefs all the time and the season ends with the Chiefs all the time, it became a continuation of the narrative of beating the Chiefs. So listen, I think they were pretty Good. I think Sean was pretty. When I say, would you say relaxed, postseason comfortable? He's already spoken. This is the third time since the game that he has spoken.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I think it's important to note, like, comfortable, but not. Not like, oh, whatever.

[Mike Catalana]

Right.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Like, he was comfortable in that environment.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes. And then Brandon, I will give him this man. When he goes up there to talk and brand. Derek Boyco, who runs the media relations for him, is like, hey, guys, you got all day. You know, he's here. He will give us all day.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

And some people wanted to take all day, but I thought they were both good. A little defensive at times. I would say more Brandon than Sean on the defensive side, and because it's more bigger picture stuff, but I enjoyed it.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, I think you make a good point because, like, as soon as Sean got done, I felt like they were two totally different vibes. And you were like, well, not. Not really. And you made the point. I. I think, was the fact of, well, Sean had already talked about the game and he had kind of processed it. And yes, it's a lot now. More not to say that Sean's work is done, but now this is really kind of Brandon's season. So I thought Brandon at times was a little bit defensive. I also respected it because we're not in the building. So I think some narratives. I feel like he had to do a lot of the narrative talk. He got asked about that time and time again about, you know, is this the type of. You know, he also said, too, the fact that he wasn't going to make any rash decisions, that he was. This was Wednesday, you know, this Thursday. Thursday, this podcast coming out Friday. The fact that he's still. It's still. The loss is still raw, that he's still emotional, that he doesn't want to make any rash decisions. So when we asked him about certain players or certain position groups, and I think he asked about all of them, he did kind of say, like, we need to evaluate it.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

I thought Shawn was maybe a little bit more, as you said, comfortable. I think he's processed that more.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, that.

[Dan Fates]

Whereas Brandon was still trying to get through that.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I. Yeah, it felt like the emotion was a lot stronger in terms of that. That rawness. I agree in. In terms of Brandon Bean's press conference, but I did like that he acknowledged of, like, right now he's not in a position to make decisions because everything is so fresh. And I think sometimes we all are like this, where there's the raw emotion of after a loss like that the season's over and it's like, this sucks. This is terrible. This is awful. How could you do this? And sometimes when you take a step back and you breathe, you're like, okay, how is this team going to move forward? What are the decisions they need to make? That's not to say they don't have challenging decisions and big decisions to make, but at the same point, you, it is important to take some of the emotion out of it.

[Mike Catalana]

I think people have to realize too, you know, Sean McDermott as a head coach makes just hundreds of decisions that you see every week.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Mike Catalana]

Right. So he's going to get criticized. And if we said there are 100 people out there calling for somebody's job, you guys included, and even media members, 98 of them are saying Sean McDermott, 2 are saying Brandon Bean.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

That's the reality of the way it is. It is nonstop. Get rid of McDermott this st. Oh, you're not going to question that?

[Jenna Cottrell]

Really?

[Dan Fates]

I don't think it's that severe anymore.

[Mike Catalana]

97 to 3.

[Dan Fates]

No.

[Jenna Cottrell]

What would you put it at?

[Dan Fates]

70, 30?

[Mike Catalana]

Oh, not even.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Oh, I really don't. Yeah, I feel like it's.

[Dan Fates]

It.

[Mike Catalana]

The drum beat about Shawn McDermott is constant.

[Dan Fates]

A hundred percent. I think people are.

[Mike Catalana]

Well, no, it's not 100%. It's less than that. I said it was.

[Dan Fates]

I think people are starting to see when Dalton Kincaid, who's a first round pick that you traded up for, drops a pass that you need a first round pick to make.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

When they say Kyre Elam, bless, bless his heart, he's a nice person, is out there not playing well at all and you traded up for him. When you're seeing that Keon Coleman, the guy that you drafted and were happy with and you thought could make a difference, was a non factor in that game. Was while the guy that you handed to the Chiefs was the third best player on the entire field. Third or fourth best player. I think there was starting to be a little bit of that. Hey, Josh is throwing to Mack Hollins on clutch big third downs.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

That's not Sean, that's not Joe Brady, that's not Josh.

[Mike Catalana]

You may. You're making good points. I, I think, but I think it's in part that the fan base is. The fan base is seeing this more majority by far. Yes. But the fan base is seeing some of these things. And listen, if I'm Brandon Bean, it's a little bit of like you draft the guy, you hand him over to the coaching staff sometimes it's on the feet of the coaching staff.

[Dan Fates]

Yep.

[Mike Catalana]

They don't do a good job with some players, it doesn't click and it clicks somewhere else. You know, like I gave you this guy, I expected more out of him, and sometimes the guy can't play or can't play for you and it's, it's the wrong pick. And that's where I feel like if you're being. You do lose a little control once you make the pick.

[Dan Fates]

Sure.

[Mike Catalana]

Right. And then you're sitting there going, you know, at some point. And he's right. At some point Kincaid could really excel. At some point, Keon could get it. All those things are still out there. Maybe not as much for Kair because we've seen enough. But at the same time, that's where I always feel. And when I say this defensiveness, it's the guys he picked, the roster he put together, that's done pretty well. But some of these high picks, you're expecting more and it hasn't happened.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I feel like now more people are putting their attention on Bean. But that being said, the overall general criticism that I hear is on McDermott.

[Dan Fates]

Absolutely. But especially in a year that was seen as, in Bean's words, a transition and this roster was torn back and they lost leaders and they lost captains and they lost some talent. There's no question about that. You saw that Sean was still able to put together with what Brandon got him. 13 plus wins.

[Mike Catalana]

I thought this was Sean's best coaching job of his career.

[Dan Fates]

I thought it was great. Diana Rossini has a podcast she does with Chase Daniel. And there was the cutaway, the short video. And Diana Rossini asked the question, she goes, so do you think it's Simon Buffalo for them to move on from Sean McDermott? And they cut to Chase Daniel and he goes, haha. What? Like, is that a real question? And Dan is like, yeah. People are saying. And he's like, I think this was Sean's best coaching job of his career, which I agree with. But she goes, oh, I guess that says all that you need to know about your answer. And he's like, he doesn't see it. And so I guess part of that, and I hope as we, maybe as the wound heals a little bit more, you can start to accept the season that it was. Because it's still.

[Jenna Cottrell]

What stage of grief are people at?

[Dan Fates]

Because you want to. You hear some of the same buzzwords maybe over and over again. It sucks. Was the one that kept coming up like, it sucks. It wasn't And Bean made a good point to say too, of in 2020, they were happy to be there.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

In the AFC Championship game, that wasn't the case this year. And so I think that's part of it. I still think they were ahead of this soft rebuild, this transition, whatever you wanted to call it. I think Sean gets a ton of credit with two first year coordinators. You can see that there's a bright piece is in place.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, I agree. But still, the narrative is out there that this team cannot get over the hump.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. And that's why I was going to say, you know, that is the narrative, because once you're in that game, they were so close. Like, if you lose this game by 10 points and you weren't really in, you then you would be like, they're just not good enough. And then. Or they didn't excel or if you lost to the Ravens or you struggled with the Broncos and lost the Ravens, it'd be a different thing. Yeah, they hammered the Broncos and they beat the Ravens.

[Dan Fates]

Yep.

[Mike Catalana]

And so they got to this game and they were right there. But it is the same feeling. Like it's a little bit of, you.

[Dan Fates]

Know, I think we've been critical at times of. We've kind of cringed when Bean has said, we haven't gotten run out of the gym. We haven't gotten run out of the gym. These last two playoff games that they have lost to the Chiefs are as close as you can play them. And I know we want to get into that little bit, but I want to play Brandon Bean. SOUNDBITE about he was asked about how do you find a way to get over the hump? And you start to see, well, you.

[Brandon Bean]

Can just hear it because what I said, you also have to give credit to the team, the Kansas City Chiefs, give them credit. The entire league is chasing them. Okay. And we're right there. If I don't know what else you expect to do, I mean, other than if you think we should blow the roster up or strip it down. That is not how I see this. This is not a team that's got a bunch of 33 year olds, 34 year olds that you just need to reset maybe some areas or maybe a position or maybe a player here or there. But like, this team did a lot of really good things this season. And when you look holistically at what we've done year after year after year, I think a lot of people would sign up for that. Is it what we want, the final result? No. But I've heard It told to me by multiple people that have been in this league longer than I have. Keep kicking the door. Keep kicking the door and you're going to knock it down. And that is my mentality. That is our mentality. We are not giving in. We're not. We're. We're frustrated. We want to win. All that's doing is making our chip bigger.

[Dan Fates]

I respected the. The table pounding a little bit. He was mad and I think. And Sean. Was it Sean or Bean that talks about, you don't want to be a team that can't get over the hump? It was Sean. And they took subtle jabs at the Bengals.

[Mike Catalana]

That's the Bengals.

[Dan Fates]

Now the Bengals beat the Bills because he goes, right. There are teams that you say they can't get over the hump and then they disappear. He goes, because they had one good season. He goes, you know, they're just there and then they disappear. He goes, what's the narrative on those teams? Because you don't hear from them again.

[Mike Catalana]

There is something to be said for your. You are right there. And that takes a lot. It's not the same as the Bills teams of the 90s, but what is so incredibly impressive about them was they're fighting through everything and persevering and pissing people off that they kept going back. So that is. This team has some of that. They just haven't reached the level they need to. That was a team that made it all the way to the last game. This team would be thrilled to get to that last game. But yeah, it. It is. Because they are. Obviously. It's pretty clearly they are the second team in the afc. I think they're better than the Ravens. They've beaten them twice in the playoffs.

[Dan Fates]

They're the second best team in the NFL.

[Mike Catalana]

They might be. Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

It is frust frustrating, though. And I think you brought this up in your dilemma video about, like, the Chiefs are really, really good. They are. And it's so annoying. Cause it's like, oh, the Bills can't get over the hump. The Bills can't get over the hump. But it's like this is a hist team that the Bills can't get through. Like, it makes sense because of how fantastic the Chiefs are.

[Dan Fates]

It's a historic hump.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, it's.

[Mike Catalana]

That's a terrible thing you just said.

[Dan Fates]

There's the open. Oh, my God.

[Mike Catalana]

You said it so dramatically, too. What?

[Dan Fates]

You said the.

[Mike Catalana]

The.

[Dan Fates]

It's a hump. And I was like, I'm gonna say it. I'M gonna. I'm gonna. As Catalan would say, I'm gonna pause and own it.

[Mike Catalana]

Oh, my God, it's so good.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dan Fates]

It is.

[Mike Catalana]

It's. It's Barkley, it's Ewing, it's Malone. Right. It's the. You couldn't get past Jordan. Everything they did, Reggie Miller, whoever it was, great, great players that never got it.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Because that stinking Jordan was there the whole time, and even at times. And then they went out and made moves like to bring Rodman in. And that's what the Chiefs have done. They bring players in, they have done it, and it works for them. And it's frustrating because, like, in those games, they weren't blowouts most of the time. Those games were closed. Here's Jordan passing to Kerr and he knocks down the shot and you're like, really? MVS is going to catch that ball?

[Dan Fates]

Yep.

[Mike Catalana]

Right. That's what happens when they're great like this. And so doesn't mean the Bills can't beat them. It doesn't mean eventually they won't.

[Dan Fates]

Correct.

[Mike Catalana]

But there's one thing to be always the bridesmaid.

[Dan Fates]

And everybody else is going when it's a recycling, when. When it's a. A whole bunch of different brides that keep walking up to the altar.

[Mike Catalana]

And Sean made the point of being through this before with Andy.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

And I lived it, being an Eagles fan, where they were really good. But they lost to the Rams, you know, and they lost to the. The Bucks at home.

[Dan Fates]

And then Jake Delome.

[Mike Catalana]

And Jake Delome. Now there were, you know, that last one, they were banged up and all is fine, but they were home for.

[Dan Fates]

Two of those Bills have been banged up, too.

[Mike Catalana]

And then they finally got to the next one. They beat Atlanta and they went to the Super Bowl. So it took them. But that was against. I. I'd say a, you know, pretty good Bucks team, a. A team that was happy to be there in Carolina, and a really good Rams team. That's who they lost to. In this case, it's Chiefs, Chiefs, Chiefs. And with a Bengals slipped in there and then Chiefs and Chiefs and the other time. So that part makes it like.

[Jenna Cottrell]

And for the super bowl, it's been Chiefs. Chiefs. Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Chiefs.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. And I guess that that's what I take away. And at times, maybe early on, you're kind of sitting there going, you got to change something up because. And Brandon will go up there and say, we're not getting run out of the gym. You know, it's only a few points and then you start to see it and you see other teams get blown out. Like the Texans weren't in it at, you know, in other games. Like the Chiefs have rolled opponents. It really does come down to a spot goes your way or a spot doesn't, you know, the Bills, it's too soon.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Well, I'm just saying you also have like, the fact of, like, the Bills got there because of a bounce went their way. Mark Andrews drops that ball. Tyler Bass kicks an extra, kicks a field goal in last year. And maybe this is another different conversation. It didn't happen. You can't sit there and take plays away. But you try and put in perspective of that. This isn't some mismatched rivalry. Like, the narrative will say, 0 and 4, period. That's in a vacuum. There needs to be more perspective into this when you zoom out. And I thought that's what I thought. Sean did a really good job at and being maybe a little bit more aggressively saying, we keep knocking on the.

[Mike Catalana]

Door and we don't blow it up. Like, you're not blowing this up. 8. The plus of what they went through last year makes them a better team going forward. They got younger. They got rid of some older players. There's a few more that need to go out the door, but they've already semi transitioned. So in that year, they ended up making it to within a win of the super bowl. And then they go forward from that point. But I agree with you. You can't parse 4 and O for the Chiefs. They've won all those games. But if you don't think, you know who else thinks these teams are really, really close? The Kansas City Chiefs.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Mike Catalana]

They absolutely believe the Bills are their rival. And the Bills are a very worthy rival. They have been pushed to the limit in these three games. One of all, congrats to them. They're great. But, like, they're not sitting there going, we got this, like, even last year against when they played the Ravens on the road. They took control of that game. They punted the ball like four times in the second half and they still won the game.

[Dan Fates]

Yep.

[Mike Catalana]

So they know they're beating the Ravens. The Bills know they're beating the Ravens in the playoffs. It's just. It's just the Chiefs.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. Which does make it all the more frustrating. But I did think it was nice to hear the perspective of Sean and Brandon talk about essentially like, not getting discouraged and being confident in their process. And when they said that, they said essentially like, that doesn't mean we're just sticking to what we do. That means we're throwing everything at the wall. We're seeing. Could this work? Could that work? Could. What about this? What about that? And I think that's sometimes a misconception from fans where it's like, you're just doing the same thing over and it's the same result. Like, that's the definition of insanity. And I think today they talked about how. No, we. We do look at things differently. We do try to figure out which ways we can get an advantage or what didn't work and how we can improve on that. So I think that is an important factor, because you're right. Like, you hear them say, like, hey, essentially, we're going to trust the process. And you're like, well, where has that process gotten you? But I do think the backstory of how you have to dismantle everything and figure it out and see what works is important.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. And I think there is this tired narrative now that's out there that Sean does the same thing defensively and there aren't any adjustments. And I did my video yesterday because you guys did the. You ask, we answer. I felt left out. I wanted to.

[Mike Catalana]

He was invited.

[Jenna Cottrell]

He. Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Again, no, no, no, no. That's just a side joke. Like, I. It was my day off. Jenna worked on her day off to do the video with you. Because Jenna's a hard worker, and I was. Yeah. It was her birthday. Shout out, Jenna.

[Mike Catalana]

Happy birthday.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Shout out. My mom.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. Not your dad.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Whatever.

[Dan Fates]

But I looked at that and I.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Said, no, I love you, Dad.

[Dan Fates]

I said. When I looked at that game, and I. Because, again, I understand. And I said in the video just that you want to have somebody to blame. And nobody, no Bills fan has a Sean McDermott jersey. And no fan shows up to the stadium saying, I love the process. And Sean McDermott, like, that's not what happens. So you want to find something. So it's. It's natural. I understand the impulse to. And the pain of somebody I have to blame. It's Sean. Sean's doing the same thing on defense. It's not working well. It was always this thought that Shaw. Sean plays this soft zone and just gives up all these things underneath. Against Lamar Jackson and the Ravens, they blitzed more than they had all season long. They pressured them 48% of the snaps, and that was something they hadn't seen before. Against the Chiefs, they played, man, more than they had all season long. It's not that Sean is just sitting there going, it's my way it's going to work this time. He's adapted. That's part of what gives me confidence and why I believe that this was Sean McDermott's best season as a coach. Because of the adjustments that he's making that he's not just resting on what has gotten him here. Yeah, he's trying stuff. That's new. Unfortunately, when you play, man, Kyrie Elam has to play, man, because Christian Beckmann is hurt.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, I, I saw that when they went for two the first time after the penalty where I was like, okay, I feel like this is a spot in the game where Sean was getting more, maybe aggressive than I would have expected in years past. Now, did that work out in their favor? Obviously, we know how the game ended, but you're right, I don't think Sean has evolved so much. And who asked? It was a great question of, like, could Sean McDermott in 2017 coach this team on 2024 up in. In. In the way that he had. And he essentially said, like, no, like I had to evolve.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. And. And look at the offense. And if you don't believe Sean McDermott gets grief for being too influential in the offense, this is what he wanted in the offense. He wanted a more physical offense that can run the ball. And what did you get out of him? 30 plus touchdowns on both sides. Josh Allen playing at an MVP level and this team finding a running back that is a true weapon for the team. And then you look to the defensive side. The defensive side, to me, lacks overall talent. They lack dudes, they like them. And you can say what you want, but when this offense took the field on Sunday, they went out there on the field with the entire starting unit. Right. Everybody was playing.

[Dan Fates]

Yep.

[Mike Catalana]

The defense was without Taylor, Taylor rap. And ended up being Christian Benford in a game that it came down to a drive, a play, whatever it was, it wasn't like they got blown out. It wasn't like it was the Baltimore game and they were never in it. So I sometimes I think the place, personnel wise, where they need the most help is certainly on defense.

[Dan Fates]

Yep.

[Mike Catalana]

I don't think there's any question I.

[Dan Fates]

Want to agree because I look at the lack of impactful players on defense and then I take a second and I go, he's throwing to Mack Hollins on third down. Give Josh everything. Because the last two times, say what you want about the defense, and I know that's been a topic of. The defense hasn't played well in postseason, and I agree. And Patrick Mahomes has had Some of his best games against the Bills in the postseason. You know, else he's had really good games against a lot of defenses.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Because he's Patrick Mahomes and you have Andy Reid. But I go back to. And I go, you've had the ball late in the game, down three. And I understand your defense. Oh, they didn't do this. They couldn't get a stop in the first half. Well, they forced. They recovered a fumble, forced the turnover. You still. It also comes down to it. Your defense, I believe, made enough. I'm not saying they. They did enough to win the game, but they made enough plays, they swung the momentum, they gave the. The offense a chance to have the lead there in the second half. And Josh Allen and Dalton Kincaid didn't connect.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. 11 points they give up in the second half of that game.

[Dan Fates]

Yep.

[Mike Catalana]

Milano forced them out of a field goal. Jordan Phillips. Phillips huge sack on the play that ended up making them kick a field goal. If you think of it in the context of. And I have faith that Josh will do that. He hasn't done it the last two.

[Dan Fates]

Absolutely.

[Mike Catalana]

But I have faith that he will do that in a game. You. And they both said today, like, give me that circumstance. Heck, Sean said it right after the game. I'm happy Josh has got the ball in his hand.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Down three. Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

But if you score a touchdown there and win the game, you look back and go, damn it, the defense came through in the second half.

[Jenna Cottrell]

They did enough.

[Mike Catalana]

Well, you said they. They now. They didn't do enough the whole game. They got run over in the first half.

[Dan Fates]

Correct. I'm not sitting there and saying they played a perfect game and they put their team into that. They did enough to win. But I'm trying to find the right words. They. And I'm really good with word salad.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Word soup.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, There we go.

[Dan Fates]

But the fact is, and I always look back and I go, oh, they didn't get the stop here. I don't care as much. And I know end of the game stops are obviously more important. Your defense gets the stop to seal wins of that. But those stops early in that second half got the Bills back in the game. Yeah, they swung momentum. Ed Oliver took over that game for about a tube. Series span like that was huge. It goes back to. I go back to the Lions game. They didn't get stops late. They had two stops forced, two, three and outs right in the beginning. That's huge in those type of games. Every punt, every Jordan Phillips sack that took them away from scoring a touchdown to force a field goal gave that offense a chance. And your first round pick didn't come up with a catch that he should make 98 out of a hundred times.

[Mike Catalana]

That's what they said today too. You know he's normally makes that catch. Well, he didn't in a big moment that would have bailed out Josh Allen.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Would he normally make that catch? Because I don't have any confidence in that.

[Mike Catalana]

Well, you're probably right because we real.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Real talk trust tree. I don't think he would make that catch.

[Mike Catalana]

Here's what we've had in two seasons of Dalton Kincaid. He looks like a decent player in the NFL.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Someone was getting on me on the comments that I had on the video we did Tuesday of like Duncan Cade was had a historic first year and and like you're right, he did technically make like NFL history in terms of.

[Mike Catalana]

What did he have the 6 8th most. Most yards and 4th most catches in a year.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah but you just look at what he like it was a low bar.

[Dan Fates]

To clear in the comments are like bikinis.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Question for the audience Markdown in.

[Mike Catalana]

In your comment, I want you to tell me the impactful play you have seen Dalton Kincaid make so far.

[Dan Fates]

Tell me the game that he took over and you went, man, he changed the offense.

[Mike Catalana]

I think Keon's made more impactful plays. A couple of the plays he made were like, okay, at least you see that. And I'm not saying Kincaid can't get there.

[Dan Fates]

We're not. This isn't bust conversation. It's just right now he's just a guy.

[Mike Catalana]

They told us he wasn't just a guy. They told us he was a mismatch guy. And they told us he was basically a wide receiver.

[Dan Fates]

Yep.

[Mike Catalana]

Because they were selling us on. That's why they picked him here and everybody liked him. Doesn't mean he can't get there. But this was not, you know, they talk about, oh, you see the numbers the first year, very good. We all thought, oh, it's going to elevate. He didn't elevate. And then he had the knee and he had the other problems.

[Dan Fates]

We didn't all think that he would elevate.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That's fair. You did not. You were right. You were right.

[Dan Fates]

Gu. That was a smooth swivel.

[Mike Catalana]

But he now let's see. So let's see. Next year it's year number three. He can get himself healthy. Let's see if he becomes a mismatch guy.

[Dan Fates]

Interesting point that both Brandon bean and Sean McDermott when they were asked about Kincaid, is they talked about him getting stronger.

[Sean McDermott]

Well, Dalton's a really good football player. I think sometimes what happens is some of these young players come in and they set the world on fire the first year. And then what happens naturally is expectations all, you know, all of a sudden rise to a level of, okay, this, then the next year is going to be up here. And I think that's just human nature for all of us. And Dalton didn't have that next step up type of year. Some of it was he missed some games due to injury, then he came back and was trying to play through some of it. As far as the last ball, you know, Dalton makes those plays and it never comes down to just one play. And I want to make sure everybody knows that my confidence, our confidence in Dalton is extremely high. He knows, and we know that he has to get to a level of health and strength, playing strength, so that he can remain healthy through the course of a full season. A lot of these tight ends are coming out that are built a little bit differently maybe than they were years ago in terms of they're a little bit more built like Dalton and some of these other guys that, you know, their names, these household names now. But the way he could set himself apart would be to add some of that strength, add some of that play strength and that durability would help him. And so I know Josh, myself, Brandon, offensive staff, all extremely confident in Dalton.

[Brandon Bean]

Yeah, I mean, Dalton, I would say Dalton didn't have the year that he expected or we expected nothing for any particular reason that I can say, other than some durability things. He got nicked up during the season. Dalton's tough. He's a, you know, he's going to have to continue to work on his play strength. He's not as built and muscular as, let's just say Dawson is. And so that's one of the nuances of this game is as you're a young player is, you know, in college you don't play 17 games plus playoffs. So building your body up to withstand what it takes. And so unfortunately, I think there was the Colts game, banged his knee, he got. Got the pcl, I believe it was. And I think that set him back. I don't know that he returned from that right away. I think that's one of those things. It's not a surgery. I think it's just time and healing. When you, you know, you open a wound and it scabs over, but you don't let it completely. And you keep just kind of like now he will be able to rest and let it calm down. I think when he comes back, it'll be better. But, you know, we believe in Dalton and he. Dalton is a big part of our plans going forward.

[Dan Fates]

Both of those answers were pretty much unprompted. It was pretty much about what does he need to do to. To get to next level and make more impactful plays in year three. And you thought, oh, it's time on task. It's the injury. They said he's as tough as nails. Like they had compliments to say to him. But this is nothing new. It's not like Dalton lost weight when they drafted him. They knew that he was the size that he was.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

And so it's a little bit surprising to say he needed to get in the gym this offseason when I would have thought last off season to really kind of bulk up.

[Mike Catalana]

So I think I'm right of this. He was the guy pushing Josh Allen.

[Dan Fates]

As he was falling down with one hand.

[Mike Catalana]

Right. And I'm saying is, hey, I got to put that on Joe there.

[Dan Fates]

So I believe in that situation, what happens is what happened was they wanted to go quick so that they can't sub so the Chiefs can't bring in their jumbo package. So you're going quick because Reggie Gilliam wasn't on there either and he's usually the pusher.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. That's two times that I know it hasn't worked. The one time they had in LA when Josh decided to. Or they decided to try to push him in.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

It was the tight end. Tall, tall guy.

[Dan Fates]

Oh, Zach Davidson.

[Mike Catalana]

Zach Davidson coming in on motion and doing it. If you're going to do it, do it right. And I know you don't want to sub, but.

[Dan Fates]

Correct. And that was also after the Dalton spot. So you.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes. He's on the field. Yes.

[Dan Fates]

If maybe you also. If maybe you didn't hurry up. Does the league say, hey, we're going to review this. Do. Does the automatic.

[Mike Catalana]

But I understand to your point, the reason to try to hurry is so.

[Dan Fates]

That you don't allow this up. So I. I see both sides and again, I think that's a little bit maybe of inexperienced because you want to go quick. You didn't get the first down. But we've seen throughout the season it wasn't just in the AFC championship game. There has been the. By a video assisted review. It is deemed a first down. If they would have given them the next 20 seconds, could they have?

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

I don't think they ever stopped the play. But if it's in the natural course of of a play clock and a play breaking, then they seemingly change.

[Mike Catalana]

Especially that one which let's we all agree just Josh got the first down. I thought Kincaid got it too. So whatever the case was. But it was on the line basically. So it was kind of an easy one for them to see on the replay. But you had a smaller guy in James Cook, I think and Kincaid trying to push him.

[Jenna Cottrell]

So I looked up the the draft's profile for Kincaid. He lacks the play strength and technique to work in line. He will need to acclimate to a more physical slash athletic brand of coverage.

[Mike Catalana]

In the time it takes you to.

[Dan Fates]

Actually board that flight from Group 8.

[Jenna Cottrell]

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[Dan Fates]

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[Jenna Cottrell]

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[Sean McDermott]

So while you're waiting for them to.

[Dan Fates]

Make up new boarding groups, you can.

[Mike Catalana]

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[Jenna Cottrell]

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[Dan Fates]

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[Mike Catalana]

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[Dan Fates]

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[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, that's like.

[Mike Catalana]

That's what he has shown.

[Jenna Cottrell]

But I'm saying you would expect for him now going into his third season. That was already identified when you were going to be drafting him. And yet why are we now going into year three? Like he needs to. Yeah, let me just. Let me finish my point.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

How he's going into year three and that is now. Oh, we need to add this. Why wasn't that already a part of his on offseason?

[Mike Catalana]

You are exactly right. What I was going to add to that is if he was killing it in the passing game.

[Dan Fates]

Correct.

[Mike Catalana]

Nobody would give a. About the other stuff.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Absolutely. Well, we know how that works.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, right. He would just be. I don't care. Gretzky doesn't need to check like whatever. Right?

[Dan Fates]

Correct.

[Mike Catalana]

You just go catch the ball. Nobody cares though. He. Oh my God. Well, sometimes like Travis Kelce is not known as the big blocker. He goes out. That was everything. Right. Right. So do that. And then the inline blocking or any other thing or fighting through a tackle or whatever it happens to be would be there. So. And it's not just him. Like they talked about Keon today. What concerned me a little bit is, you know, Keon did have that. He got hit by Poyer. Right. That was the play. Wrist injury and he got hurt. And then Sean talked about he's young and Brandon talked, he's young and coming back and playing through an injury. I get all that. He's got a lot of work to do or we're going to be sitting here in a year saying the same kind of things you're saying about Kincaid.

[Dan Fates]

Yep.

[Mike Catalana]

Because he has to excel.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. Beans exact quote was I did not see the same player after the injury. He went on and said, I wish he finished the season stronger. Now again, he also did say that he is confident in.

[Mike Catalana]

And you're talking about Keon here on Keon.

[Dan Fates]

Sean echoed the same sentiments of pretty much. Bean was saying that he, he didn't see the physicality after the injury. That could be a young player. He said time and time again he's 20, 21 years old. A lot of the other first round guys, sometimes they're 24, things like that. So he did talk about that. He did say that one season's not going to define him. Hats off to Alex Brasky asking him if he has buyer's remorse about savior Worthy. And he said that both pretty much what he said on draft night. He said he has to be worried about the Buffalo Bills and what decisions are he making that are best for the Bills. The Chiefs have to worry about what's best for them. I respectfully disagree. But the fact is he says that let's wait three, four, five years before we actually take a look at both of their careers, which I think is correct. So more time on task for Keon. But he did say it's on him. Like he's going to need to improve because otherwise we could be talking about Keon the same way we're talking about Dalton. Now.

[Mike Catalana]

Left unsaid, isn't that what I just said? Anyhow, left unsaid is I wasn't listening. At that draft, Bean was actively trying to get out of the first round to make the pick.

[Dan Fates]

Right.

[Mike Catalana]

Pretty obvious because everybody always says, well, would you have taken Worthy? You could have taken Keon there. Yeah, they took him. Would ended up being what, 33. 33. So they traded what, 20.

[Dan Fates]

They traded back twice because they traded with. With the Chiefs and then with Carolina.

[Mike Catalana]

Right. So. But they move because they were actively trying to get out of the round. Less money. It's four year deal, not a five year deal. All those things that go with it. So there is a part of that because I sometimes hear people and then right away they want to say, like, would the Bills have taken Worthy? I don't Even know if Worthy would have been the guy you wanted to take.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Even if the Bills didn't take them, the Chiefs, I keep saying this. The Chiefs were obviously concerned someone else was going to take them.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. And that. That was another thing that someone was saying in the comments from our video on Tuesday of like, it was Xavier Worthy's speed didn't hurt the Bills. Like, that wasn't what crushed the Bills. And I'm like, that. You're missing the forest through the trees. The fact is, is that the Bills traded with the Chiefs to allow the Chiefs to get a guy that they thought would fit their system, regardless of speed or whatever. He is a playmaker. And this is how narratives work. And you're right. We need years to figure out if Keon will develop into a player. And maybe Xavier Worthy falls off the map. But in the biggest moment most recently, that is a guy who was, as you said, one of the best five players on the field on Sunday night. And that is why that hurts. And that is why that will be continued to be talked about.

[Mike Catalana]

You're never getting that one back.

[Jenna Cottrell]

No.

[Mike Catalana]

Like, that game was you was there for the taking. And they might have had to do something else, but.

[Jenna Cottrell]

And did you guys get the impression that if that situation happened again, Bean would do that again?

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I did, too.

[Mike Catalana]

I just. I want to take his phone and block Brett Veech's number.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. Just don't. I know, because I get it. Him saying, like, we have to do what's best for the Buffalo Bills. Absolutely. Obviously. But also, the draft does not happen in a vacuum. And so it makes sense when you think about, like, hey, the Bills just have to focus on. But it's like you are facing off, especially against this other team that you have seen so many times in the postseason, the team that has ended your season so many years.

[Dan Fates]

Agree with that 100%. Jenna. We were there on draft night. We said it from this isn't hindsight being 20 20. We said it before Xavier Worthy ever put on a Chief's helmet.

[Mike Catalana]

I know when that pick. And there's like, they've made a trade with the Kansas City Chiefs. And I'm just thinking, just make it a defensive tackle. Make it something. Oh, no, it was a speed, fast wide receiver.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

I do respect what Bean and McDermott were saying. Mike, us, both of them. Pretty much the question of how do you evaluate when you go into an off season, everything that you do, is it based on. Are the Chiefs in your mind?

[Mike Catalana]

Top of mind. I was saying to Bean. Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

And I thought that was a great question. And they both, I thought, had good answers. You got to focus on the division first. What are our strengths? What are our. Where are their strengths? So that you can get in the dance.

[Mike Catalana]

Oh, you know what I just realize, though? I just got a notification from the NFL. The AFC east stinks. They're going to win the division again. It's Baltimore more that they're worried about than anybody in the division. Yeah, it's Baltimore because Baltimore is a very different matchup than the Chiefs and they survived.

[Dan Fates]

Correct. And that's what their answer was.

[Mike Catalana]

They are right about that part because.

[Dan Fates]

They said, if we build this team to beat the Chiefs and then we don't face the Chiefs. I thought Bean was pretty funny. He goes, I'm going to come up here and be like, sorry, guys, we were building our whole team for the Chief. We were rooting for him. We were rooting for him and we didn't face it.

[Mike Catalana]

That was funny.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, I like that context and perspective. You are. And he also said, you're building a team to win in indoors, you're building a team to win outside in snow. 30 degree wins. I understand that.

[Mike Catalana]

But they are playing to beat the Chiefs. That's who stops them every year for.

[Dan Fates]

The last decade and. Or seven years. And I imagine this run will be another three at least to make it an even decade. They are the team that you are chasing.

[Mike Catalana]

They are the door championship game every year.

[Dan Fates]

They're the guy in front of the door that you can't even get to kick yet. Like that's where they're talking about. And so that's part of the narrative. I thought Bean did a really good job for the most part, of handling those narrative questions. And he also was asked about, you know, the unfairness. He was. He defended Sean, he defended Josh. He said, pretty much put the blame on me. He said he always thinks more about the double bogeys in his round. With a golf analogy. Shout out. Bean listens to the pot, obviously thinks more about the double bogeys than the birdies that ruin his good round. I thought he had a good perspective of understanding the noise that goes on around and trying to block it out the best that you can.

[Brandon Bean]

You just got to ignore that noise. There's always going to be noise if you don't. If you don't hold the trophy up. You know, if we'd have lost to the Ravens, if whatever happens, Mark Andrews catches that ball and somehow it gets to overtime and they win the game. That would be the narrative. Like we got out coached in that game. You know what I'm saying? Like, if you don't win the game, they're going to say they out executed you and out coached you. But no one said last week because we won by two points. No one was saying we got out anything. And I didn't read their narrative. But if you don't win the championship, if you come up short like we did and like we have, that's what people are going to say. Can you guys win the big one? We just have to keep kicking the door down.

[Mike Catalana]

By the way, when you played golf with him, he had the birdies and you had the double bogeys, right? Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. You cannot build over one team. But if you were ever going to build to beat one team, this would be the team.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I think both. Both can be true.

[Dan Fates]

You can keep one eye on the.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Road and one eye. You are the.

[Dan Fates]

You are the queen of that.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Because that's usually the truth.

[Mike Catalana]

Usually in the middle, though.

[Jenna Cottrell]

The truth is usually in the middle.

[Mike Catalana]

But think about this coaching staff. I got to give him this to prepare for two very different teams in the Ravens and having to beat them. Kudos. You know, credit to the Chiefs for finishing with the one seed, even though they pushed it the whole time. But they finished with the one seed because they basically. Well, they got a buy, they got Houston at home and then they waited for the Bills and the Bills had to go through a physical game with a team very different than the Chiefs, I think, and then turn around and play. But they earned that right. And that made a big difference because reverse it and the Ravens are playing them in Kansas City and then they have to come to Buffalo. I know what happened the year before, but I would take my chances that way.

[Dan Fates]

I don't want it to sound like loser talk. And I get it. And maybe it's still too, too soon. But Mike, you always talk about how the Bills are viewed for their four super bowl losses as failures.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

And you always say, like, that's a massive accomplishment in itself. Understanding you didn't cross the final river and all of those things. I guess that's a little bit like the commanders had no chance, got blown out. They knew that they were out of their weight class. Yeah, that's not the Bills. And I know that's so frustrating because you are that close, but you really are. And Sean said it and Brandon said it and I know it, to me, it's not falling on deaf ears, but like the fact of you're a few plays away and if a few plays. And again, they were on the right side of a few plays against Baltimore.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes.

[Dan Fates]

They were on the wrong side of a spot and a drop against the Chiefs or they. Or we'd be sitting here getting ready to plan the trip to New Orleans and. And I. I look back to this and I think try and provide. And that's why I did the one video of trying to provide perspective of the season, the game, all of these things. If I would have told you in training camp when we were at Fisher in August and I said, hey, the Bills are going to be down three points in the AFC Championship game in Kansas City and Josh is going to have the ball with three minutes left. You taking it? Yeah, I'm going to. Taking that in a heartbeat.

[Mike Catalana]

So when you talk about those old Bills teams in the afc, the Bills were the Chiefs in the conference.

[Dan Fates]

Right.

[Mike Catalana]

Because Marino couldn't beat him. Elway couldn't beat him, Montana couldn't beat him. Right. Dan Marino's career got to a Super bowl and then he played the Bills. Now, the games themselves in the regular season, just like these, back and forth a little bit. But when it got to the playoffs, it was the Bills. When they got him at home in the AFC championship, it was the Bills. They were that team, the gatekeeper of the afc. It just. They lost in the Super Bowl. So that's what happens sometimes. And if you're Marino, you're like, damn, Kelly and Bruce and those guys, they kept Marino in a way from going to multiple Super Bowls because it was the Bills for four straight years.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Another topic today was about Kyer Elam. I know a lot of fans were very frustrated by the way he played on Sunday against the Chiefs. And I think that Dan. I think. I mean, they. They said essentially, like how everyone was feeling.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. Not great.

[Mike Catalana]

What did Sean say?

[Dan Fates]

It did not go well.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. Which. That's about as honest as you're going to hear.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. And I like it when Sean kind of takes you inside the huddle a little bit, saying, they went with a quick passing game. We were originally in zone. We could. What do you say? They could. We could die a slow death by them. Just kind of short passing all the way down the field on us. So we had to switch to man. And he goes. Kair went in there and it did not go well.

[Mike Catalana]

What frustrates me, not frustrates me, but it takes us in there. When they talk about, he prepares, he works, he does all those things. And that's the result you get for a first round pick. That tells me. It's not like they're saying the kid's lazy. He's not doing his. Like he's working at it. And this is the result you get. It is a abject failure as a number one pick. And do not give me that you replaced him with Benford because there was no rule that says you wouldn't have had both of, you know, a good pick in the first pick.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Oh, okay. Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes. When they drafted Benford in the sixth round. So it just doesn't work. I cannot see him being on the roster this year. They cannot trust him in a game. And I know that was the Chiefs, but it just. They can't. So they have to. They have to move on from him in this off season. Right.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. It's just a matter of is it a straight cut or what can you get for it?

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. It might be one of those teams.

[Jenna Cottrell]

You trade, recycle something.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

You trade to a team that maybe he fits what they like to do more.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

And he starts over without the pressure of being a number one. It's not like I'm rooting against him. He just goes in the game and the other team points at him and goes, we're going at him. Tough. Yeah, that's tough.

[Jenna Cottrell]

When everyone on the field knows who's the weakest, weakest link.

[Mike Catalana]

The other guy and I know you were going to bring him up is Milano. I think they talk about Matt Milano the way they used to talk about Trey White coming off his injuries.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Oh, I hate that.

[Mike Catalana]

I just. You've seen it.

[Dan Fates]

They complimented him. They felt bad for him because of the season and the injury that he had to go through. And in the two part questions that he was asked about what have you seen out of him and do you see him as your starting will linebacker next season? The question, their answer just stopped.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. They didn't say no or yes. They just kept talking about, again, he is a worker. He's a tough dude. When he was at his best, he was great. But they said a lot of the same things about Trey. And then eventually Trey got cut. We were at the combine, everybody was talking about it. And then they. They cut him.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

So I don't know for sure if that will happen, but it would have been easy to stand up there and say, matt is back. Like, we saw a lot from him. We're looking for. They did say he's going to work.

[Dan Fates]

Because they said that about Keon and Kincaid.

[Mike Catalana]

They.

[Dan Fates]

They Said that they were. They were excited about the future with Keon, and they said Kincaid would be a big part of the offense moving forward.

[Mike Catalana]

Right.

[Dan Fates]

They didn't say that. Milano is going to be a big piece of the defense next season.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I could see him being back, though, because I just think that Milano's like, I've made money and I want to be here, and I don't want to start over. I could also see that you're right.

[Mike Catalana]

But the issue with that is he's a starting linebacker on the team. This is when I was saying the difference between he and Von Miller. There is a role to play. Von Miller as a situational pass rusher, overpaid.

[Dan Fates]

So over Vaughn.

[Mike Catalana]

I am saying overpaid, but you can get him on the field as a situational pass rusher. If Matt Milano is on the team, he's your starting linebacker.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I think he has made plays, but.

[Mike Catalana]

You'Re talking about having. My issue is, did you think you can remotely trust that he's going to be out there for 14, 15, 16, 17 games?

[Dan Fates]

I felt better the last two games, three games. I felt better in the postseason than I did all year.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I agree.

[Dan Fates]

I saw flashes that. It's almost like there's not as much. It's weird. There's car accidents. There's accidents on this car, but the tires are fresh because he hasn't played that many snaps over the last few years. So maybe the legs just needed some time to get back, but I don't know how bad the dents are on the outside of the car before it stops running.

[Mike Catalana]

I'm agreeing with you that in that sense, he still can make plays. I just don't think he is remotely. Some of his just freak things. I mean, the art when he hurts the biceps on the. On this blocking sled and, like. But I just don't think they trust that he can make it through a season.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I mean, I totally understand.

[Mike Catalana]

And Dorian Williams is there, and I think he'll. He'll be the guy.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, that's. That's fair. I mean, I. I'm not shocked by you saying that. I'm just also saying I wouldn't be shocked if they kept Milano. I understand why you would be hesitant, though, because he has not been out on the field. Like, that makes total sense.

[Mike Catalana]

All right. Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Let's go to the final thing to touch on today. Matthew Smiley, Sean McDermott, Brandon Bean. A lot of frustrating moments throughout the season on special teams. Was it Sean who was asked straight up, straight up, like, do you plan Go ahead.

[Dan Fates]

Sorry. No, I was just trying to help.

[Jenna Cottrell]

No, no, I know. Go ahead.

[Dan Fates]

I know Mike's cut you off, like, nine times today, and I know your New Year's resolution has failed today.

[Mike Catalana]

Oh, it's February now.

[Dan Fates]

It's not.

[Jenna Cottrell]

It's also not.

[Mike Catalana]

Isn't it? Is there 31 days in January. Damn it. So post.

[Dan Fates]

I almost made it a month without interrupting Jen on every sentence. I almost wanted to like. It's okay. It's okay. He's. Mike's on a roll.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I lost it a little bit earlier, and I've kind of given up.

[Dan Fates]

So that's why I wanted to help you. I wasn't trying to interrupt.

[Mike Catalana]

You seriously.

[Dan Fates]

Was asked about his performance and the confidence he has in him. And then the followup was, will he be back next season? And Sean said yes. So Matthew Smiley will be back as special teams coordinator, as far as we know.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Do we believe that?

[Dan Fates]

I think you would have made the move by now. Cause you got to hire somebody.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I mean, I hear that. I just.

[Mike Catalana]

I do think that's the type of position you could hire late.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I don't think you have to immediately go out and get a guy.

[Dan Fates]

Here's a guy.

[Mike Catalana]

If they're not in a position to make a move. But I. I would say, in fairness to Matthew Smiley, if they were going to move on from him, they would do it now. Because I think that's what the sort of the code of coach is like, if he's not staying, you gotta let him go. And isn't there some saying like that on one of those posters, staying and letting him to go, or let him leave and they'll come back or one of those things? Yes, that's what it is. But in this case, I think you have to be fair to the coach.

[Dan Fates]

An inspirational poster, right?

[Mike Catalana]

I think you have to be fair to the coach. If he's not part of the team and he said he was, and I think this would have been the time they would have said something.

[Jenna Cottrell]

So I also think it's only been, you know, it's. It hasn't even been a full week yet. I would expect them to do it within this week. But that's a good point. If I'm Sean, I'm not gonna be like, yeah, I plan on firing him. And he essentially said no, and then was like, keep it moving. It's not like he, like, was like, you know what? We really believe in him. He had some tough breaks. Like, I didn't. I again, didn't get that vibe. So that's why I wouldn't be shocked if they moved on from Smiley. And honestly, I think there's been a lot of special teams blunders this season that it wouldn't be something that I would be upset about.

[Mike Catalana]

Nine guys on the field.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. Like, they're fake punts. There are many, many a moment.

[Mike Catalana]

And then a punt return to put the cherry on the top in the AFC championship.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, that was. That was rough. Okay. All right. Anything else? No.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. Any final thoughts? Jenna, on end of the season, the way that it's transpired, the, the vibes from today, because this is kind of the last time we're going to get Bean and McDermott until Mike and I are at the combine in Indy. Anything that surprised you or that you took away.

[Jenna Cottrell]

So covering this team and seeing their season end to the Chiefs so many times in the last couple of years, it feels very discouraging, like it feels very daunting to go and win against the Chiefs. And I understand why fans feel like that. But I felt refreshed today of, I think this team, especially Sean. I just have been really impressed by Sean, by his demeanor, by the way he's handled himself and the response that he has gotten from the team in the season is. Is a reflection of that, that I feel comfortable that this team will be in the right direction. They have had a ton of success. They are still chasing that ultimate goal. But I. I felt like they can do that. Like, sometimes after losses, you're like, I don't know if this team can do it. I don't know if they have what it takes. But after today, I was like, you know what? I. I still have faith that Brandon bean and Sean McDermott. I'm not saying they're perfect, but I still believe that they are the people that can get this Bills team to where they want to go.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. And I think that's. I mean, I'll shamelessly plug my own video of the dilemma that I put up on Wednesday, but I felt that same way that, like, for everything, buddy, that is like, oh, McDermott can't stop Mahomes in the playoffs and Spags is so good and out coach them. It's like Josh was dropped ball away from being in position to possibly take the lead in that game with a minute to go and then the whole narrative is different. I know you can't play those hypothetical games, but trying to provide the perspective, I promise I won't knock the can on you.

[Jenna Cottrell]

No, I just get nervous. You talk with your hands a lot.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. For not being Italian, I really, really hit it.

[Mike Catalana]

You're Italian adjacent.

[Dan Fates]

I'm around Italian a lot. Yeah. I'm in the same boat where I know at times it just feels like it's deja vu all over again and it's another kick in the nuts. But this one, it just felt like.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Okay, I don't know.

[Dan Fates]

I just felt like this was, hey, this is a football game. To me, that game was we're sitting there on the sidelines and me and the other photographers, like, this game's nuts. This game's awesome. This is high level football. And one team had a blink. And unfortunately, Dalton Kincaid blinked.

[Jenna Cottrell]

And that's not to say that there aren't changes that need to be made. Like, I want people to understand that. Like, still, you need to do a better job of drafting in the first round, like, talent evaluation. You need to figure out how some of the guys that you've already drafted can take that next step. But I'm just saying, for me, I felt like, you know what? This organization has done so much good over the tenure of these two. Two guys that I think that their process has worked. Has it gotten you to the ultimate goal yet? No, but I don't think it's worth throwing everything away because you haven't hit that mark. That is literal perfection that teams are chasing, especially when there's been a team that's historically good in your way.

[Dan Fates]

So proud of you, Mike.

[Mike Catalana]

It's three minutes. I shot up for three minutes.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That's got to be a pr.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes. I was so excited.

[Dan Fates]

I was like.

[Mike Catalana]

And I was thinking of it, and I just waited. You know what? I was like, what do I say about James Cook? The way he runs?

[Jenna Cottrell]

Patient.

[Mike Catalana]

I was patient.

[Dan Fates]

You were like a dog with a treat. When they're like. Like, they're like, sit. And the dog's like, I. I did, though.

[Mike Catalana]

And I was like, I'm gonna do it, damn it, I'm gonna do it.

[Dan Fates]

I wish this. And Jenna was cooking.

[Mike Catalana]

Oh, I wish she was just going and going.

[Dan Fates]

I wish this was earlier in the pod. I hope somebody stayed all the way to the end to see Mike. I thought his head was going to explode.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I wish he had a clip of a dog doing that.

[Mike Catalana]

So the only thing I was going to say is they do need to make some moves.

[Dan Fates]

Absolutely.

[Mike Catalana]

Some substantial moves. Because there is a danger. It's usually super bowl hangover. There is a danger of making it this far. This is far. This is AFC championship. Right. It's a danger of making it there and in your mind, you want to put yourself right back in that game. And it takes so much to go through to get there. And that's why teams that lose the super bowl usually struggle the next year. It's just what happens. Right. It's happened all the time. And I think even to make the championship game. But I think a spark, whether it's somebody showing up on offense or defense or a rookie that comes in or whatever it is, you know, you make a big, big deal for Max Crosby, like, whatever it is that they do, I look at it and say, you might need that, because sometimes it just becomes like, we worked, we worked, we worked. And you want so badly to make up for what you did not do.

[Dan Fates]

The Lions.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes.

[Dan Fates]

And I think that you look at these. A bright future with Bobby Babbage. I think you can see the pieces in. In his kind of leadership. Joe Brady, I think he got a little bit out coached in that game.

[Mike Catalana]

Right.

[Dan Fates]

I don't think it was his best. I don't think that they were. They displayed everything. They didn't have anything up their sleeve to pull out. And maybe that experience will. He'll gain that.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, it's that. And that's not to say talent. You need talent, more talent.

[Dan Fates]

Because you know what the difference is, too? There are so many times that we've seen throughout the season that Joe Brady, if a play works, he'll just hit the same button again, run it again, run off tackle. Run off tackle. Run off tackle. When the Chiefs lined up on the first touchdown, they lined up in that full house formation and they gave a handoff and they gave it to Hunt and they went. Got back into the. That same spot again later in the game. And then they. Everybody went left and Mahomes went right. Because Reed is setting you up for those plays.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Joe Brady doesn't have that yet. I think he will. But that's what. Again, that's the difference in coaching.

[Mike Catalana]

Yep.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, I agree. Okay. All right. We got. We exercise the demons, right? Isn't that the saying?

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. They're still there. They're playing in the Super Bowl.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. Don't even get me started. Okay.

[Mike Catalana]

Go Birds.

[Dan Fates]

Give me one more.

[Mike Catalana]

Go Birds.

[Dan Fates]

Go Birds.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Go Birds. Oh, anyone. But.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. Okay. All right. For my Catalana and Dan Fates, I am Jenna Castrel. Please be sure to, like, comment, subscribe and share. Of course. We'll continue talking Bills throughout the off season. That'll do it for us today, though. Thank you so much for watching. We'll catch you next time here on the Buffalo plus channel, presented by Connors in Paris.

[Mike Catalana]

Go Bird.

[Dan Fates]

This is the Buffalo plus podcast, brought to you by Connors and Ferris.