Bills Awkward energy, Diggs drama and Von's return

Summary

Buffalo Plus Podcast Episode Summary

Episode: Bills Awkward energy, Diggs drama and Von's return
Date: May 24, 2023
Hosts: Mike Catalana, Jenna Cottrell, Dan Fetes

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Overview

This episode dives into the Buffalo Bills’ offseason narrative, zeroing in on Josh Allen’s renewed motivation, ongoing “awkward energy” between Stefon Diggs and the team, Von Miller’s injury comeback, and position battles as the team navigates OTAs (organized team activities). The Buffalo Plus team debates the Josh-Diggs dynamic, evaluates positional depth, and delivers locker room insight on headline stories and behind-the-scenes updates.

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Key Topics & Discussion

1. Josh Allen’s Motivation and Mindset

Timestamps: 00:46 – 06:23

• Mike highlights Allen’s public statements about being “more motivated than ever,” remarking that Allen appears to have a personal point to prove—possibly to himself, the coaches, or even teammates.
  • Notable Quote [01:19] – Mike: “He’s motivated more than he’s been and he’s focused more than he’s been. And I find that really interesting.”
• Dan contextualizes this among NFL elites, drawing comparisons to Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes, who cultivate slights for extra motivation, especially after adversity.
  • [02:31] – Dan: “Isn't this what all the great quarterbacks do?... The great quarterbacks have to find something.”
• Jenna notes that Allen’s tone differs from the typical “everyone doubted me” narrative; Allen instead speaks in terms of personal responsibility and bringing a championship to Buffalo.
  • [04:19] – Jenna: “It’s not like, ‘no one believed in me;’ it’s like, ‘believe in me.’”
• Team discusses the exhaustion factor at end of last season, Allen’s public ownership, and the burden of expectations as the face of the franchise.
• Notable Moment [05:52]: The group laughs that Allen saying “I’m motivated” is considered “outspoken” for him, signaling how rare it is for him to be so publicly assertive.

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2. The “Awkward Energy” – Diggs Drama and the Josh-Diggs Relationship

Timestamps: 07:39 – 16:35

• Mike raises concern over Diggs’ OTA absence—not just as a matter of attendance, but as a marker of distance or vibe shift in the usually tight Allen-Diggs bond.
• Jenna and Dan both settle on “awkward” as the feeling describing the situation, emphasizing that while Diggs missed OTAs last year, the context is different after his emotional sideline displays and locker room exit to end 2022.
  • [11:01] Jenna: "Awkward is the word I would use to describe this."
• They clarify it’s not open tension nor a trade issue, but rather a weirdness that feels like a hangover from the season's end—something fans and media are picking up on.
• Dan points out the difference between truly voluntary absences and “awkward energy” that feels less contract-driven (as with Jordan Poyer) and more relationship-based.
• Mike speculates that Allen’s public motivation statements might even be aimed at Diggs, inviting speculation about their dynamic.
  • [15:06] Mike: “What if he’s talking to Diggs when he’s talking about his dedication?”
• The group agrees things will likely smooth over by mandatory minicamp, but the “awkward energy” will linger in the narrative until an overt show of unity or communication settles concerns.

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3. Von Miller’s Comeback and Approach to 2023

Timestamps: 17:55 – 24:38

• Von Miller attended OTAs and guaranteed he’ll be back “no later than week six,” possibly week one, following his ACL injury.
  • [18:42] Mike jokes to his wife, who had ACL surgery, “You’re going to be Von Miller. You’re going to be back fast.”
• Dan and Jenna agree there’s no need to rush Miller back, especially given his age (34) and importance during late-season/playoff runs.
• Mike strongly advocates caution, suggesting the ideal scenario is for the Bills to “pick up” Von midseason, similar to a trade-deadline reinforcement.
  • [20:39] Mike: “I don’t want him playing week one. The six weeks is the idea... What they want from Von Miller is to get him ready, get him on the field.”
• The group references Miller’s status-driven optimism, but ultimately stress that Buffalo should protect his long-term availability, letting youngsters like Epenesa and Basham show what (if anything) they can do in early weeks.

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4. Ed Oliver, Contract Years, and Defensive Line Outlook

Timestamps: 25:12 – 30:33

• Jenna prompts a discussion on Ed Oliver’s critical “prove-it” year and whether he mirrors Tremaine Edmunds’ contract/valuation situation.
• Mike notes the Bills value D-tackle more than linebacker, meaning spectacular play could earn Oliver more money, perhaps even pricing him out of Buffalo.
  • [26:15] Mike: “They’d be thrilled if he played his way out of Buffalo because he was spectacular and they didn’t want to pay him.”
• Dan warns against being fooled by a “contract year” blip—consistency matters, not just flashes.
• The trio speculate on which “fringe” defensive players might be this year’s “best shape of their life” candidate, a tongue-in-cheek Bills preseason trope (e.g., Spencer Brown, Boogie Basham, Gabe Davis).
  • [29:24] C: “We could also have a Gabe Davis in the best shape of his life, too.”

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5. Cornerback Competition & Sean McDermott’s “Meritocracy”

Timestamps: 30:33 – 39:31

• The podcast dives into a likely CB2 competition: Christian Benford vs. Kaiir Elam, with Dane Jackson in the mix, opposite presumed CB1 Tre’Davious White.
• Mike lauds Benford’s play over Elam when healthy, noting McDermott’s willingness to let competition, not draft status, dictate playing time.
  • [31:38] Mike: “I love the fact that Benford earned a one spot last year over the number one pick.”
• Dan argues Benford outperformed Elam last season, citing upside and “free” play that comes with lower expectations.
  • [35:59] Dan: “I thought Christian Benford was better than Kyair Elam last year... the only thing that prevented Benford from playing more was injuries.”
• Jenna wonders about Tre’ White's role and whether, post-injury, his lockdown status is permanent—though it’s ultimately agreed he’s still the top guy if healthy.
• They discuss versatility and how players like Taron Johnson and Benford allow Buffalo to field varying defensive packages.

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6. Dorian Williams and the Mystery of MLB

Timestamps: 39:31 – 45:29

• New linebacker Dorian Williams is currently working in the middle, despite pre-draft hints he’d begin on the outside.
• Mike finds it “odd” and suggests the Bills want to test his football IQ and learning curve at MLB.
• Dan recalls a similar situation with Terrel Bernard a year prior, seeing the logic in giving draft picks middle reps to gauge leadership and versatility.
• Jenna theorizes they intentionally downplayed MLB plans post-draft to limit external expectations:
  • [43:42] Jenna: “I kind of get why Beane said he’s going to start on the outside... Maybe put these really high expectations [if open about MLB].”
• The hosts predict a less-stable, less-every-down role for this year’s MLB, structurally compensating for the loss of the athletic Tremaine Edmunds with more rotating/role splitting.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Josh’s Motivation:

  “He’s motivated more than he’s been and he’s focused more than he’s been... I think he’s trying to say... ‘I’m still Josh and I’m going to show it to everybody this year.’” — Mike, [01:19]

• On Diggs/Allen Dynamic:

  “I would like to see in the Buffalo Plus shop a T-shirt that says awkward energy.” — Mike, [10:51]

• On Von Miller:

  “I don’t want him playing week one. You want Von Miller when you need Von Miller.” — Mike, [20:39]

• On Defensive Competitions:

  "It’s meritocracy... the better guys are going to play." — Mike, [37:12]

• On Position Battles:

  “When you draft somebody in the first round, you expect him to be a starter... I don’t think that we would have seen Kair nearly as much with how well Benford played if it hadn’t been for injuries.” — Dan, [38:28]

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Notable Timestamped Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------|---------------------| | Josh Allen’s Motivation | 00:46 – 06:23 | | Awkward Energy: Diggs-Allen Relationship | 07:39 – 16:35 | | Von Miller Injury Update & Strategy | 17:55 – 24:38 | | Ed Oliver, Contract Years, D-line Depth | 25:12 – 30:33 | | CB Competition: Benford vs. Elam/Role of Trey | 30:33 – 39:31 | | Dorian Williams at MLB vs. OTA Expectation | 39:31 – 45:29 |

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Tone & Style

The discussion is candid, sometimes irreverent, but always grounded in the hosts’ years of on-the-beat experience. Listeners are treated to playful banter, nuanced speculation, and a clear separation between sourced information and reasonable conjecture. The hosts blend football analysis with a wink at fan culture, often referencing inside jokes (e.g., “best shape of their life season”) and audience questions.

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Final Takeaways

• Awkward Energy is, as the hosts frame it, the defining feel of the Bills’ offseason, stemming from the unresolved Diggs-Allen dynamic and the emotional hangover of last season’s abrupt, drama-laden end.
• The roster’s foundational strengths remain, but uncertainty at MLB and ongoing defensive back competitions are storylines to track—potentially impacting defensive identity.
• Von Miller’s recovery and Ed Oliver’s contract chase are pivotal for the 2023 unit’s ceiling—but managing egos and vibes, particularly with star skill players, might prove even more important.

End on classic Buffalo Plus note: The team jokes about “awkward energy” being not just the episode name, but a potential T-shirt—summarizing both special access and comedic touch that make the podcast a must-listen for Bills fans craving more than just box score analysis.

Transcript

[A]

It's time for the Buffalo plus podcast. Now and again. Rolls on the move, lets it fly. Oh, digs. Oh, what a catch.

[B]

All right, welcome back to the Buffalo plus podcast, presented by Connors and Ferris. Before we get started talking OTAs, please be sure to, like, comment and subscribe to the podcast. If you enjoy our stuff, I'm joined, as always, by Mike Catalana. Dan Fates. I am patrol. All right, gentlemen, the Bills in Orchard park doing some organized team activities. These are voluntary. Where do we want to start? What do you think? Should we go attendance? Should we go Josh Allen motivated? Should we go. Von Miller? Mike, what are you feeling?

[A]

Well, I, I, let's start with Josh Allen, and I think those other things come into play.

[B]

Okay, agreed.

[A]

And I'm going to start with Josh because I believe he has a talking point and I understand it, that he's motivated more than he's been and he's focused more than he's been. And I find that really becoming more and more interesting to hear him say that. And I guess, look, we've known from the start this guy's a worker, he's a coachable guy, great teammate, all those things.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I was listening to Jeremy White on wgr. You guys, everybody knows the Bills knows those guys. And he said something in the way he said it, I, I agree with him. He said it almost as if Josh is trying to prove something to somebody. Now, that could be to himself, it could be to a coach, it could be to a teammate, it could be to his family, like, they're, I don't know. But, but to say, like, I'm still that guy. I, maybe it got away from him a little bit last year. And I'm not talking about his dedication to playing. I'm talking about the little stuff, the focus, the pre preparation, the knowing where everybody is at all times. I mean, we almost took that for granted because that's who he had been since he really took over and that. And it started to become a little, you know, where they were dependent on him. And maybe he had lost a little trust or faith. A lot of it fell on Dorsey not saying there isn't blame. But Dan, I look at him and I go, I think he's trying to say. And it could be to an individual, but I'm still Josh and I'm going to show it to everybody this year.

[C]

Isn't this what all the great quarterbacks do? Like, isn't this what Tom Brady has done for most of his career when he'd win a Super bowl and then Say, nobody believed in me. And remember when Patrick Mahomes was done about a year and a half ago, and everybody's like, stop. It's. It's done. And then we're all like, yeah, there's still the Chiefs, and he's still Patrick Mahomes. I think good quarterbacks need to do. The great quarterbacks have to find something. And I think when you start to slip a little bit, and whether that was the elbow injury, I know people comment in all the time, like, about the struggles of the offense the last nine, nine, ten weeks of the season, a lot of people bring up the elbow. Absolutely. And I also think that it's hard in the middle of a season to let your foot up off the gas a little bit, even if it's unintentionally, to then rev the engine back up. And maybe that's what Josh is kicking himself about. The way that the season finished, the way that it transpired with Diggs, the. The bad taste in his mouth. All of those things, I think, combine into this. Josh with a motive, with a message. I agree with you and I agree with Jeremy White that there is something behind this that is a factor into this new mindset, because we always knew that Josh always wanted to prove it to the Bills. Remember, he always talked about that, that he didn't want to let them down, but he. He hasn't let them down. He's. He's turned them into. He's turned the franchise around. It seems like it's something beyond that that we may never find out. And this is all just speculation. But again, I just feel like some of the great quarterbacks in the league go through these cycles where all of a sudden it's like, yeah, you know, that shiny new toy is Joe Burrow. He's gonna get a lot of money. And Josh is like, still Josh Allen. Like, if you guys forgot about me, like we kind of forgot about at times, Mahomes and Brady.

[B]

I will say two things to your point. Like, I feel like that note of, like, everyone doubted me. All this stuff like that usually comes out after. And I feel like that's not the message that Allen Alan's saying. Like, no, you can trust in me. Like, I'm more like. It's a different sort of tone to the message. It's not like you guys, no one believed in me. It's like, you know, believe in me. It's like saying to believe in him. And I don't know if it's a testament, too, to just the way last season was because of the way, like, I mean, that was an exhausting season. And I'm not saying it's okay for a player to check out mentally, because it's not. But at the same point, I think maybe by the end, things were just exhausting. And I think for him, he was like, that's unacceptable. And maybe that sent a message to other players in the locker room. Like, you can be saying all the right things, but that doesn't mean you're doing all the right things. And maybe that's why, taking a step back, him going into this year being like, I'm gonna do and say all the right things, because I am locked in. I was brought here to bring a championship to Buffalo. We have not been able to get over that hump. And he's going to be the person that people circle on the roster and say, it hasn't been done yet. What does Josh need to do? Is that fair? I don't think so. But at the same point, that's the responsibility that comes with being, you know, a top five, top three quarterback, and that's what it's going to take. So I think it's. We've never seen this side of Josh. He's not usually been this outspoken about, like, him needing to be more focused.

[C]

It is funny that we talk about this as Josh being outspoken when all he is saying is, I'm just motivated. I've never been more motivated, like, and I mean that in the sense of Josh doesn't say a lot, guys. We've always said that's why it is a lot. Right. So that's what I'm saying, is that, like. But it isn't a lot in the terms of you have players coming out being like, I mean, we're not even at Mike, the best shape of their live season. We're not even there yet. But Josh is. Josh has jumped into. I've never been more motivated in my life. Season. So we're ahead of the game.

[A]

All right. But here's the thing, Dan, what you're referencing with guys like Brady and even Mahomes, they've won, they've been there. It's almost like you can go back to the Michael Jordan, like, find something to motivate me. It's different with Josh. He's gotten a lot of criticism, again, at the level that he's at. I. I listen to him again from the OTAs, and I hear little things that I don't normally hear from him. And that is where I think he's taking responsibility for some actual not play calling, but understanding everybody's role in the offense and where he's like, you know, maybe he missed guys, maybe there were guys open. Maybe he did things where it's a little too much like, I'll just rely on being Josh and get it done. And Dorsey gets crushed because the offense took a step back and. And obviously he deserves some of that. But maybe Josh is looking back on it a little bit and going, they're telling me this, they're telling me that. And I didn't come through the way I could to find players that are open. And Jenna, I'm gonna just throw.

[C]

We.

[A]

We weren't going to talk about attendance. This isn't about attendance, but I can't not say it. Where are we on Diggs and Josh? I mean, I just don't. I always felt that there was that lockstep with those two, and maybe it's all fine. I don't feel it right now. Maybe it's not even about showing up at the OTAs. I just don't. I don't feel it at the moment between those two.

[C]

Finishing your point, Mike, Just. Because I'm just saying, you know, speculation alert button. Like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Like, this is nothing that I know. It's just nothing new that we've said here on this channel, but just the fact of maybe you take for granted how good Brian Dable was and to just know that, like, you talk about. Mike, you talk about how not taking things for granted kind of thing that I may have missed. Guys, maybe it's also the realization of is. Is. I'm not. I don't want to say, like, Dorsey's not holding guys accountable, but just saying, like, the things that day Bold did wasn't there. And all of a sudden, Josh is like, crap. This is a lot different. I need to put more on myself because Dable helped me so much. And guess what? That's not a hot take because Brian Dibel was an offensive coordinator for a decade. So.

[A]

Real quick. Yeah, no, real quick before we. Because I want to hear Jenna on this, too. We also realized there were times when Dable struggled.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

And then Josh adapted. And then I think he trusted the coordinator and trusted the offense. But, Jenna, even tables last year, what were they? 7 and 6 and we were in Tampa, and it was like, they're finally finding something.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, that happened. That didn't seem to happen last year. He still made plays. They still won games. And I. I didn't mean to, like, just drop the whole digs bomb in the middle of this, but I just feel it, and I think other people feel it, too.

[B]

There's definitely some awkward energy. I would use the terminology, or I feel like you don't want to read too much into it. And Von Miller, future Hall of Famer, talked on at OTAs about if I'm. Diggs is a professional, all of these things. He's a veteran. He doesn't need to be here. OTAs are voluntary a thousand percent, and he doesn't have to come. I mean, he didn't go to all the OTAs last year. Diggs didn't. But I agree with you that there's tension is too strong of a word. But it's. We're not used to seeing Alan and Diggs in this kind of demeanor. And the way the season ended, maybe both guys needed to take kind of a step back. Maybe they needed some time apart. And maybe they have conversed. They just haven't said that openly. So it's left people to have this lingering feeling of, is there something going on? And I think that's honestly kind of valid.

[C]

Yeah. You were kind of, like, looking for the word. Like, you said, tension. Was that the word you kind of use, like, not?

[B]

Well, I think tension is too strong.

[C]

Correct.

[A]

Hold on. Well, Jenna, I would like to see in the Buffalo plus shop a T shirt that says awkward energy. I think that's a fantastic phrase. Perfectly so.

[C]

Well, I think that's exactly it, too. Awkward is the word I would use to describe this. And it's not because. And I know everybody will say, and I'm one of those people that, for the most part, says, he didn't come last year. What's the big deal? But last year didn't end with him being very boisterous on the sidelines in front of his team. Last year didn't end with him leaving the locker room before media could attend. Last year didn't end like this year did. That is where it's different. And that's where it feels like you said awkward, where maybe things were portrayed incorrectly in Minnesota. And that was one of the first things that Stefan Diggs talked with Vic Karrueche about when he was. I'll never forget that. That zoom. And Vic's like, hey, the way things ended. And he's like, how did things end? He's like, what did I do? And we were all like, well. And it was like, yeah. He's like, this was all kind of made up. All of a sudden, those kind of things creep back in, and those aren't Fair. Because if it's a different situation, different things, but I'm with you, Jenna. It's awkward. They're not doing SI for kids hugging each other. They're not. They're not coming out. Diggs hasn't come out, especially to anybody in the local media. I know he talked about his frustrations and how he loves Josh, but there was no defending Josh post game, you know, post locker cleanout, where we had to hear from Isaiah McKenzie and we had to hear from all these other players stand up for digs, and Diggs really hasn't done that. So that's where it's a little different. I don't think it's a massive deal. I don't think this means it's not being traded, none of those things. But it is, like you said, that awkward energy to this offseason that, that is kind of hanging over it.

[B]

That's exactly what it is. It's like a hangover of some of those feelings, it seems like, to us, at least to me. And I will say, like, I think this is something when they, the, when they see each other, when Diggs hopefully will be there for mandatory camp, mini camp, like, I think it will be very easily squashed out. I really do. If there is any, like, weirdness, I think that's one of those things. But when we're literally on the COVID of Sports Illustrated Best Friends issue and you haven't openly talked about talking with one another and all this stuff, it does lead to questions about, is there something going on? And those questions will linger until that's. That narrative has kind of been nipped. Nipped in the bud.

[C]

I, I have a. Jenna just got us a great name for the podcast. It's awkward energy, that is for sure.

[B]

I love that for us.

[C]

Yeah. And like I said again, I am also one of those people. I just wanted to say, because people be like, Dan doesn't get it. Because that's what usually happens in the comments. It's voluntary. It's voluntary.

[A]

This isn't even about him not showing up. This, to me, it's been the whole.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Off season. Yeah.

[C]

Correct. But I want to make, I want to make my point crystal clear before people click off or comment that Dan's a. Is that it is voluntary. I don't care who shows up.

[A]

It.

[C]

In all honesty, when Jordan Poyer didn't show up and everybody goes, what a bad teammate he is. And I was going to shut up. Nobody cares. It's voluntary. The, the, the. The difference here is that there is more it feels like there's more to the story than a contract situation. Like there was with Jordan Poyer. That's the difference. That's that awkward energy that we're talking about.

[A]

Yeah. And Jenna's right. It probably. Everything will. It'll be fine. Mom and dad will talk. We'll all go to on a vacation. It'll be fine. Everything will be fine.

[B]

It's everything. Hopefully it's not the everything is fine meme.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But no, that is, that is an interesting point of this off season. And we know. I mean, I've been asked. I'm sure you guys have been asked, stopped and Wegmans, everything Okay. Mike, what do you think? Like, I, I. It is something that. Do you think it'll be resolved? Like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you think it'll be resolved?

[C]

Meaning give the listeners some reason to be calm.

[A]

This is what I was going to say. I'm going to circle back around to my initial point about. He's talking to somebody. What if he's talking to Diggs when he's talking about his dedication? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know. And, and again, Dan, you highlighted it. What did Dig say about the offense? This didn't start in Cincinnati. Correct. Like, this is what happens with wide receivers. And, and I. Every time somebody says he's, he's dedicated, he's a, he's a worker, he's all this. He is all those things. And he wants the ball, and he should want the ball, and he's competitive, and he should be competitive. But they had that vibe. And I'm not saying it's gone. I'm saying is maybe it's got to be sort of earned back a little bit. And maybe there have been things the other way. Maybe, you know, those two have a good relationship. He's the number one guy. He ain't going anywhere. Dan's point, they're not trading them. They're not. He's not going anywhere. He's not demanding anything. It won't work. That's not happening. I mean, Josh was pretty positive about Trent Sherfield and playing that wide, you know, outside in OTAs, which is good. They need a guy who can actually play on the outside behind Diggs. But, like, yes, Jenna's right. Now, look, you get to mandatory OTAs, and there's an issue, but that's not what's going to happen here because there really is no contract issue for Diggs. Nothing's happening. It's not about that. By the way. He's. He's had a Good off season, too. Man can dress. I mean, he has been everywhere.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Was he met gala, too?

[C]

Yeah, yeah, Met gala. He was over in Europe for some other big fashion week, having a ball.

[A]

Good for him.

[C]

What happened? More Stefan Diggs traveling this offseason or Josh Allen golfing? Because they are neck and neck.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The dead heat.

[A]

Yeah. Think about it.

[C]

Fond Diggs Instagram so much. Because I'm so confused. I'm just so confused scrolling through it.

[A]

Yeah. It's all about the differences. Digs hadn't hanging out at the Masters. And Josh can wear a suit, but that's not like he's not. He's, you know, he's T shirt and the. The visor guy. More.

[C]

Josh is at the derby. He's gonna go. He did go four major golf events, apparently.

[B]

That's what I would add. A lot of money.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I would go to every sporting event.

[A]

Jenna, you talked about Dan and we always bring up best shape of their life. Is Josh going for best hair of his life? Is that. Is that a thing?

[B]

Certainly a look.

[A]

All right, I'm. I'm done with that part of it. I think. I think we. We push that out there. We got plenty of time before the year. But something's going on.

[B]

Mike Catalana has closed the book, so that.

[A]

Well, I mean.

[B]

Open a new book.

[A]

Yeah, let's open it. Let's open a new one.

[B]

All right, well, let's talk about Von Miller. He was at ota, is obviously coming back after the oil change. That is an ACL injury.

[C]

Shout out, Jenny. Ralph.

[A]

Yeah. My wife had ACL surgery. She texted Tan to tell him this oil change is something.

[C]

I almost figured it was just you on Jenny's phone.

[A]

We were laughing about it. She said you were very nice to text her. And then I said, text him about the oil change as she's laying there with her leg spread out to. To hold it in place after surgery.

[B]

God.

[A]

I said to her, you're going to be Von Miller. I keep motivated. She knows you're going to be Vaughn. I'm literally telling her that you're going to be Von. You're going to be back fast.

[B]

Well, he gave a guarantee at OTAs that he would be back no later than week six. He also did not rule out week one, but he says he doesn't have, like, a specific timeline, but he wants to be ready for early on in the season. Dan, he didn't have to give a guarantee.

[C]

No, that's Vaughn. That's so Vaughn. Do you know it's. He's entering his 14th year in the league. He's. He's been around for a long time. He's a big fan of the game, too. Big fan of ACL recoveries, too. He's a big fan. Yeah. I think that this Brandon Bean also hinted at this when he was on the greenlight pod with Chris Long, saying that he wouldn't put it past Vaughn to be ready for opening day and that they were gonna have to be the ones. He said it. We're gonna have to be the ones that hold the reins back on Vaughn.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Which apples and oranges from a second ACL injury to a veteran to all. All of those different things. But this is a guy that has gone through it before. He kind of knows it. I mean, he's posting on his Instagram just one video after another. That looks great. I have hand up. I have been tricked by videos where you see something and go, guys ready? That. That'll bring us back to an oil change. Yeah, I think. I. I don't know if it's week one and that goes into the turf at MetLife. They've changed it things. Things like that. Vaughn has been very adamant this off season about getting NFL fields to change to grass. I wonder if that'll play into a part of it. I believe MetLife changed their turf. I thought I saw that somewhere, but I don't know if week one's realistic.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But I definitely, like I said, I understand the guarantee of, like, he wants to be back. Still was playing at a high level when he got injured, and the Bills aren't playing on Thanksgiving this year. So that's.

[A]

That's good. Janet. Here's what I. I'm going to say this. I don't want him playing week one.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

Yeah. No.

[A]

I don't want him playing week one.

[B]

No point.

[A]

The six weeks is the idea because they can put him on the PUP list because he's injured coming into the off season for two reasons. I do think there's times when the player focuses and I get it. They're motivated. They're working out. They're thinking opening day. I want to be there with my team. Totally get that idea. But then you say to yourself, you know, is week two that big of a deal? You're Von Miller. What they want from Von Miller is to get him ready, get him on the field. And look, the other part, you got to look at it is the first part of their schedule is on paper. The easier part.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not that they don't need Von Miller, but you Want Von Miller. They. They had him at the wrong part of the season last year. Just the way it worked out.

[B]

Right.

[A]

When you really want Von Miller and he played great in Kansas City and he played great in LA, all those things. Yeah. If he was 25, you'd want him for 18 weeks plus.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't. I want them to say, that's fine, Vaughn. You probably could play the first few weeks, but we're going to wait. And that doesn't necessarily mean PUP list. And he's got to be six weeks. Maybe it's four weeks, whatever it is. Then they ramp him up a little bit. But I love the guarantee. That's. That is right on brand.

[B]

It's so funny because I heard that and I just started to giggle because I was like, of course. He's, like, giving a guarantee. You're right. It's going to be the Bills kind of holding back the reins. You don't need Von Miller in September. You need him at the end of the season. And he's been through it before, so I understand his mindset of like, look, I've done this. I want to be back out there with my teammates. They brought me in to be this guy. He's also 34. And you want to be smart. And I think having the Bills just go through. Sorry. They're doing construction if you hear it.

[C]

Sounds good.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Oh, great backdrop, by the way. Loving it.

[C]

Phenomenal.

[B]

Yes. In the process of moving, there'll be more things added to the shelf, to the bookcase. But, yeah, to me, it's like, that's great that he wants to be out there. He is. He was impactful. But also a part of me is just genuinely curious to see how it'll be with AJ Epanessa and what can Boogie Basham do? Anything. Can these other guys also take a step forward? Do I expect them to be Vaughn Miller? No, absolutely not. But the Bills invested a lot in that defensive line. Can we see maybe some progress from the guys behind him? That's something that I'm like, I do. I expect that. Not really, but it's a good opportunity for those guys behind him.

[C]

It's like Groundhogs Day.

[B]

What?

[C]

It's like. It's like we keep talking about, like, who a Japanessa? Boogie Basham, are these guys gonna step up? And it's just sometimes they are who they are.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm not. And do I expect you to suddenly become good? Not really.

[C]

I'm not calling you out. I'm just saying it's just like, how many times can we do a POD or do a video and say, one of these guys has got to step up? And we said, like, we're sitting there.

[A]

It's like, here's the difference for this year. It's almost like best shape of their life. It's almost as if you're picking up. If you held Vaughn out. It's almost like you're, you're picking them up at the trade deadline, kind of.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because let's see what you've got. Let's see. Maybe you got to be outscoring people early. You're not getting that. Then Von comes in and that. And that. That's the part I would say, you know, he's going to be ready. When he's ready, he's going to be really ready. But I, I just see that. I've seen it all the time. I get the motivation. It's way too much focus on opening night. If you look back, they beat the Rams. That was great. It ended up being. That was an NFC game.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Against a bad team.

[C]

I mean, you meant.

[A]

Meant nothing. Now it's the jets and it's open. It's a division game, so it's different. But hey, Aaron Rodgers is very dedicated, too. So.

[B]

Did you see that? I saw ESPN with the calf strain. They had. ESPN had a graphic of jets grounded.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So cheesy. I laughed so hard.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, God. He's. They're all, he's all in. You know, this is these, these narratives, like, yeah, yeah, he's the quarterback.

[B]

It's May, it's pretty easy to be all in when you just have to throw on a shell and get out there.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

All right. Well, I don't know. I, I, we didn't have this outlined, but I kind of wanted to touch on, best shape their life. Just Ed Oliver, you know, he's, he's a guy that people were talking about at OTAs, flashing all this stuff. Mike, important year for him. Contract year coming up. I think he obviously wants to get that big deal that all the players want. And how do you see this season going for him? And is it kind of like a Tremaine Edmonds situation?

[A]

It might be. His position is valued more by the team and by the league than middle linebacker is. Can he be that guy? Yeah. Would they want to resign him if he was that guy? Yeah. But you know this, too. It's like they also are. They've also made up. I'm trying to think of a number. 60%. Maybe they've made up their Mind on what they think of the guy, because part of them is going to be. They don't want to be fooled by a contract year.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now they want to use him playing well in a contract year.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But they don't want to be fooled and be like, oh, Ed's that guy now, and then he gets paid, and then it's different. I'm not saying that's what happens to him. I'll tell you what, they'd be thrilled if he played his way out of Buffalo because he was spectacular and they didn't want to pay him because they need. They need that. They need him to be that guy. But I think after a certain amount of time, don't you kind of know who the guy is? You're gonna say, that's Tremaine.

[C]

Those are the words I used. Are you blocking me? Like, are you.

[A]

No, no, no. But I'm saying is exactly what I'm talking about. The difference with Ed is they value the position more and they don't really have a replacement for him. I think they looked and saying, we can change. We can change the defense without triggered. We can change the defense without Tremaine. Tremaine got paid. He got paid a lot of money.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm saying is they may be still willing to pay Ed Oliver more because of the position that he plays.

[B]

Oh, I hear you. Okay. Okay, that's fair. And that's. I agree.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

But, but.

[A]

But they're. Because they're not changing the defense not to have an impactful middle of the defensive line. I mean, you may. You may play differently with a middle linebacker or the amount of snaps or the way you play, because you can adjust the defense, but, I mean, come on, you gotta have somebody in the middle there, putting pressure up the middle, playing the run.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That doesn't really change.

[C]

So for a while of that, I thought you were. I thought you were trolling me, because I was like, those are all the exact things I said about.

[A]

There's so many ways to troll you on this. That would.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, that. I, I agree, Mike. They. They hope that Ed Oliver, just like I said, Tremaine plays at an all pro level, carries them to a Super bowl, and then he gets a big deal somewhere else. I think they'd be fine with it. I think they'd be like, that's fair. Because Mike. Mike makes the point all the time. And it's such a good point. You can't just look at one year like, it's the Gabe Davis thing. You can't Just look at one or two games and go, man, that would be great. You have to look at the entire sample size. And I think Ed is a very tricky case of pretty high highs, has dominated some games, has taken some games over, and then there have been games where you wish he did more. And you. So if he goes off this year, is it the one year. Is it something clicking or is it, you know, just. I don't know, is it. Is it really who Ed is? You, again. You are signing NFL contracts. Are. What are you going to do? It's not. What have you done? And that's the big difference. So Ed is a difficult case to try and solve in. In that case, I think. And Mike always makes that point. It's not just the one year.

[A]

Yeah. See, is he in the best shape of his life?

[C]

It's about to be.

[B]

I was gonna say, I don't. I don't know if he's. I haven't seen any best shape of his life videos, but who's gonna be.

[C]

In the best shape of their life? Who's gonna be in the best shape of their life?

[B]

Coming into this, I saw a video. Where was I. Last year was Devin Singletary.

[C]

Last year was Devin Singletary.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's got to be somebody who.

[C]

It's a fringe guy. It's a guy that, like, they want. That they're. They're expecting to have a breakout year.

[A]

Okay, I got one for you.

[C]

Don't do it.

[A]

Spencer Brown.

[B]

But they love him.

[A]

I know.

[B]

They defend him.

[A]

Yeah. He's come in. He's in the best. It'll be. It'll be said. It'll be said. Ready, get ready for it. And he might be. But it'll be said. Okay.

[C]

I would also think it'd be like a Boogie Basham. There'll be articles about how he's ready, that he's ready to take that next step.

[B]

Actually, Vaughn was talking about how him and Epanessa put on a lot of weight. This. Off course.

[C]

Yeah. Remember what. Remember when it was A.J. epanessa was in the best shape of his life a few years ago when. When Dion Dawkins talked about putting his hands on him and he thought. He said, oh, that feels like a man.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

We could also have a Gabe Davis in the best shape of his life, too. Ankle, healthy ankle. Best shape of his life.

[B]

Okay, I hear you. All right. Well, we were talking about Ed, and we mentioned Tremaine, and I want to kind of get to the corners because. Yeah, Elam obviously, was last year's. First round pick Trey White. You essentially think of him as being CB1 and then opposite of him. It's kind of like that competition in terms of Kair and Dane Jackson and Christian Benford. Mike. It kind of brings up the conversation like if it is a competition and, and Benford's played very well the times that he's been out there. I, I feel like Bill's like first round picks, defense you put picked. I mean, obviously Kair wasn't as high as Ed Oliver was, but like some.

[A]

Of these guys, you're like, yeah, it's interesting that they basically said, yeah, I think it was John Butler talking about that, you know, Benford's playing corner. That's where he is. Because we had heard maybe moving to safety. Of course Poyer and Hyde are both back, so.

[B]

Yeah, and you have.

[A]

Right. I love the fact that I think especially On a Sean McDermott defense, I love the fact that Benford earned a one spot last year over the number one pick. They weren't worried about. He did and he was playing. I, I think their secondary is going to be really good this year. I think I, that I went from being like, who do they have? I think both those guys can play. Obviously they have, you know, Elam, people were down on him for a lot of stuff, but I like, I like the physically the way he is. I think he's got the right mindset, but it's got to show on the field. Trey coming back was a weird dynamic last year until they got him going. Dane Jackson is one of those guys they know they can always plug in when they need to, but I think they're both going to play a ton, but I think it's a wide open competition on the other side and Trey White's got to be Trey White to be locked in as that guy.

[B]

Yeah, that's fair.

[A]

Maybe that's not fair. Maybe he comes back this year fully back to who he is and that would be awesome for this defense.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But.

[A]

Dan, I'm one, you know, is there a point where it's maybe this, this, maybe this will go back and look at this. And this will sound stupid in week four, but is it guaranteed that Trey is out there for all the snaps or most of the snaps all the time this year?

[C]

Yeah, that's stupid. He will be.

[A]

I, I think, okay, might be.

[C]

Yeah, like I, I and it goes back to what I was talking about. You know, guys were covering a podcast.

[B]

Can you tell your boss that's stupid?

[C]

Well, no, he pressed. No, I said It, Yeah, he prefaced it, otherwise I wouldn't have gone there. But, yeah, I think that saw the way that he played towards the end of last year, starting to feel a bit more comfortable. And then again, some idiot on a podcast and a YouTube channel talked about how it's an oil change. And I think that those idiots out there are stupid. I, I just think that that's a stupid take and that obviously everybody knows that, like ACL recoveries, especially for somebody who's never been injured before, I think that it could be 18 months. So I, I, I think that you're going to see, like I said, there was no pitch count when Trey really kind of came back and in the playoffs, I thought he was there. You're going to get an offseason of football activity and not just rehabbing. I think he needs to be there. And I know, Mike, you've talked about before, too big year for Trey in the sense of contract stuff. Right. Isn't there something that they could, couldn't they opt out or cut him? This year would be.

[A]

Yeah, well, you, you always have to look at that is like, where are they in the contract? Right. He wasn't going anywhere, and there was no reason for him to be going anywhere. But after this year, it changes. And the only reason I say that is they've been pretty much just meritocracy here. You got to play to be on the field. And some guys deserve the benefit of the doubt. I mean, what they did for Trey in Detroit.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

They don't do that for a lot of guys. I'd never seen a team really do that, where they put him out there for what, 12 snaps, whatever it was like in a regular season game. But that's what they think of Trey. My only point is if Benford can play, Elam can play. I'm not saying they're better than Trey. I'm saying is at the moment, it's, it's. Jenna, would you say it's the narrative is who's playing opposite Trey? Well, he deserves that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But at some point, you got to play to deserve that. And let's see this year, if he's back to being fully being Trey.

[B]

I, I mean, McDermott had glowing remarks about him at his press conference this week and saying how he's attacking the offseason.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

All that stuff. I, I guess I, you're right. I just plug in who's playing opposite of Trey. But I feel like White has earned that.

[A]

No, no. 100%. You're right. And I'm not changing the narrative. I'm saying is you get into the games and then it's like, how are they playing? Who's playing? He is a guaranteed snap guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Guaranteed. And does that change at all this year?

[B]

You're stirring the pot, sir.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Here's, here's this for you. I'll say this. Injuries aside, if you just looked at players, didn't look at their number or their name on the back of their jersey.

[A]

Right.

[C]

I thought Christian Bedford was better than Kyre Elam last year, I think. And like Mike talks about meritocracy and it kind of reminded me of the only thing that prevented Benford from playing more was just injuries. And it to me that brought me back to like Taron Johnson when it was like, man, when he's on the field and healthy, he changes this defense.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And I thought, I thought Benford had that effect. I really did. The size, the speed, the physicality and the instincts I thought were better than Kyre Elams different expectations. It's like they always talk about in a golf, in a golf tournament, which we just finished up, the. How freeing it is to come from behind when you can chase. When you're the sixth, seventh round pick.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Who cares if you make a mistake, you're supposed to. You're viewed as that guy that is supposed to make the mistake. When you're the number one, when you're the first round pick, when a team's traded up for you, there's pressure. It is a lot harder to hang on to the lead in that job than, than it is to be the guy coming from behind. So I really like the way that I saw from Benford. He played free. To me, he played aggressive. I didn't always see that from Kair. I saw it at times. We all did. But to me, if you're. Mike makes a great point again, it's meritocracy with this bill.

[A]

See.

[C]

So I don't. Like I said, yeah, Benford started games over Elam and they have no problem.

[A]

Started the first game. And to me that was a message to him, to Elam, to the team. And the team would have known. Those guys know now look, J. Kyrie's the number one pick. That's what gives him whatever level of status that you have. Trey White is an all pro player. I'm not benching Trey White.

[C]

No, no, no, no, I know.

[A]

I'm saying is, I'm saying is the better guys are going to play and there's going to be times when they get them on the field. And if both of these guys can play, I think they're gonna. I guess my point would be, does Elam always have to be subbing for Benford or the other way around?

[B]

Yeah, I see what you're saying.

[C]

I understand you. And my point is, if Benford hadn't been injured with the oblique, with the wrist, with other things, we may not know what Kyrie Lim really plays like, because he won the job out of training camp straight up, was the better corner, then was so valuable that we talked about finding other positions because we just eventually assumed, well, it's the first round pick. He's going. When you draft somebody in the first round, you expect him to be a starter.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And I don't think that we would have seen Kyrie nearly as much with how well Benford played if it hadn't been for injuries.

[A]

Yeah. Now, in fairness, they did split the reps. It wasn't like he just sat on the bench and it was, it was split when they were out there, even from that first game. But Benford's going to play. He's going to. He's playing.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

They pretty much invented a position for Taran. Like they kind of changed the defense to be like, we're this nickel defense when he's this good slot corner. I, this may come back to bite me, but like, this is like, I think Benford has that versatility and impact on a defense with his side speed, athleticism, instincts to be a Terran esque player on this defense moving forward where he can be so valuable that the Bills pretty much play a certain style of defense because of Taryn, they're able to play a certain style defense because Taren, I think that maybe it's not this year because you still have Taryn, you still had the, you know, hide and Poyer coming back. I just see that's how I view Benford and his impact.

[B]

Yeah, I mean that's a very high compliment, obviously. I mean this sample size that we had, he, he performed. It's just the injuries too, which we, we saw that with Taryn, but that's, that's something to watch. Absolutely. And it's kind of cool to see. I feel like for so long it was like, all right, well, the Bills had Levi Wallace and Levi Wallace won that competition and last year was Dane and all this stuff and Trey coming back. But I mean it will be a competition and you know how much McDermott and the team in general and the Bills and you know, Brandon Bean, love that aspect of. You got to earn your spot, and you got to keep earning it to stay there. So that. That is pretty interesting to watch during camp as well. Let's talk Dorian Williams, Bills. Jermaine Edmonds, no longer in Buffalo. McDermott said that Williams has been taking, you know, the middle. Middle linebacker role on learning that obviously a lot smaller in terms of comparison to Tremaine Edmonds. I feel like coming out of the draft, though, Bean kind of talked about, yeah, we're gonna start him on the outside. All this stuff, Mike, I mean, were you surprised that they kind of changed their tune, or do you think that was all part of the process? Like, what do you expect? What do you think?

[A]

It's kind of odd, isn't it? I mean, we're at the start of OTAs. Like, they made the point that he was going to be there, and now they're saying he's learning the middle linebacker spot. Look, you drafted him in the third round, much like the year before. You expect that guy to have a role. And by the way, special teams took another hit with this new kickoff rule.

[B]

Oh, yeah?

[A]

Yeah. Because there's gonna be. There's either gonna be squib kicks or a lot of fair catches on kickoffs. But regardless of that. Yeah, I. We thought if you're drafting that high, you're gonna pick a guy who's going to play in the middle. And maybe they want to throw a lot at him, see how he reacts, which I could. I could see. I hope I am very wrong about that pick. I just thought if they were going to go for that and the guy to play in the middle, they would go for more. A little closer to a traditional guy. Not Tremaine. But, hey, we could be watching. We could be a camp at Fisher, watching this guy fly around on the field and going, well, now I see what they. They see in him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the idea, Dan would be, can he pick up all the things that go with the role of being in the middle, knowing the defense, knowing everybody's role, making those calls and all that. But it is kind of funny that they sort of hedged away from it a month ago, and now they're all in that he's in the middle.

[C]

It's almost like they didn't want that to be a talking point when they drafted him and at rookie minicamp. But they did the same thing with Terrell Bernard, which is why some hot takes idiot made some take that Terrell Bernard would be the Bills starting middle linebacker next season.

[A]

He might be, yeah.

[C]

But I remember because I. That Was what stood out to me at training camp last year was that Bernard, who we all thought size fit in the defense was a Matt Milano esque. And he replaced. He was the one playing middle linebacker with the second team a lot. Which is what led me to. Or that idiot to that hot take the fact of. And I think. And again, not a football X's and O's guy, but I think if you can understand that middle linebacker and making those calls in the defense as a young player, I think it helps you with everything else. So maybe that's just wanting him to get used to taking reps, getting calls, all those things as the middle, which is what he pretty much done at Tulane.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And kind of continue that to know, throw him kind of in the deep end of the pool to be, hey, like there is this wide open competition. If you show us something, maybe you got a shot.

[B]

I kind of get why Bean said like, yeah, he's going to start on the outside and then move him into the middle. Because I feel like we are simple in terms of sometimes the media, if they were to draft a guy and say, yeah, he's going to play in the middle, it'd be like, well, there's the replacement for Tremaine Edmonds and all. And maybe put these really high expectations on this guy.

[C]

That doesn't sound like something I would do.

[A]

Well now, now they've waited a whole 30 days for us to say he's gonna play.

[B]

I know.

[A]

And it may be the case. McDermott did say that Dorsey had talked to him. I don't know if you guys had heard that part where he's like putting some things in on the offense early to run at OTAs. And he's like, yeah, part of it is we want to see how these guys react. And Jenna said, you throw him in there, let's see what it is. And maybe he's the kind of guy they look and they like a lot about it and just realize it might maybe a work in process. Pro progress. I do think that process, yes. You went from a guy with guaranteed snaps. I mean Tremaine was on the field all the time.

[B]

Yeah, he was.

[A]

I think to Dan's point, whether that's, you know, an extra safety, an extra corner, whatever it is, they're going to. They're going to play a little differently this year. And maybe that middle linebacker is not on the field for all those snaps. 90 whatever percent that Tremaine played last year.

[B]

Well, it kind of makes sense, right? Like Tremaine Edmonds is such an athletic freak. Like his size, his speed, all this stuff. Like, it's hard to find that in later rounds of the draft.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you're not like, you're just. It's not going to be a, a, a thing. So you have to have other players adapt around that. So that to me makes sense in terms of. Yeah, maybe it's a guy that's smaller or faster or whatever, but you have to kind of change how you play your defense because you don't have that guy that's the cornerstone of your defense and has is a first round pick and he is rangy and all those things. So you have to move around that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right. Anything else we wanna. No, no, we're good.

[C]

It's good to be back.

[B]

It is stupid. All right. We'll have plenty More coverage as OTAs continue. Mandatory minicamp coming up. Training camp back at Fisher. Turkey burgers. We're all excited. Please be sure to like, comment and subscribe. Comment below. Oh, and the merch. Yeah, the merch store is still, still going strong, so check it out. Plenty of mugs. We have new tumblers too, if you want like a, like a to go mug. Those are pretty nice. I will say comment. Who has caught your eye? This training camp or this, this mini camp? Oh, no, no.

[C]

What about if the digs drum? Do you think there's real.

[B]

Okay. I didn't know if we were on it to draw more attention to that.

[A]

Well, hey, maybe people can maybe, right. And have the opinion that it's absolutely nothing. Look, for the bill's sake, I hope that's the case, but what's the word we're using?

[C]

Awkward Energy.

[B]

Awkward Energy.

[A]

I love it.

[C]

Great pod. Great podcast title.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Awkward Energy. Okay. All right, on that note, let's end it there for Mike and Dan. I'm Jenna again. Please be sure to, like, comment, subscribe, subscribe. Check out the merch store as well. Buffaloplusstore. Com. Thanks for joining us. We'll catch you next time here on Buffalo Plus.