B (2:41)

Yeah. And even going back to. I think we've talked on The Buffalo Bus YouTube channel and here on the podcast that we've talked about at times with Josh specifically. But now it's the entire team as a whole that the goal posts keep getting moved back. And we mean that in the sense of it's not a knock at them. It's. They have played so well. It's a compliment to move the goal post back. Yeah, like that. They have set the standard, as Sean McDermott had said or Mike Tomlin would say. And today was a game where they played their sea game. It was probably their second worst game they've played this season, only behind Miami, because they lost that game.

A (3:21)

And the Miami game was filled with injuries and heat and all those other problems. I think it was Albert Breer who tweeted out that look at what the Bills are basically said, what you just said. They did not play well and they still won by 10 points. Now, yes, while I will agree that that is a compliment because they've been so good, this is the moment when you're a great team. You don't let that stuff happen too often. They were at home. You just bury them. And they should have buried the Packers. Now let's also go back to what the packers were doing. They have Aaron Rodgers on the team. I tweeted at one point, game manager, he's handing off on every play.

B (4:02)

I said, when did he turn into Trent Edwards? It was, well, at least Trent Edwards within five yards.

A (4:09)

Yeah, at least. He threw some of those over the line of scrimmage. Roger's throwing all the little dump offs the screens. When he did throw it, the rest of the time he was handing off. Now, on the downside for the Bills, the Packers gouged them on the ground. I mean, they really did run well. But I do think part of it was the idea that the Bills were sitting there going, why aren't you throwing the ball? Like, at what point? I mean, Von Miller said he even asked Aaron Rodgers about it. Of course Von did. I think he loves Aaron Rodgers.

B (4:39)

He loves a lot of things.

A (4:40)

He loves everybody. But it was a weird. That was weird. It sort of lulled the Bills into this. Well, they're going to start throwing it, right? They're going to start throwing it. And then they never threw it.

B (4:50)

And I think that's the part of being up 17. You're saying you just can't give up the big play. You can't give up the big pass play over the Top.

A (4:58)

But I also think one more score and it puts the game away.

B (5:01)

Absolutely.

A (5:02)

And they got that back and forth. Josh threw the interception. Pen Milano finally caught one, won the bet for you.

B (5:08)

Yes, he did. And Aaron Rodgers over half, an interception.

A (5:13)

Yes. And he threw, basically threw two because Milano dropped a half each. Yes, he got the other one. But then they get it back. They're moving somewhat down the field. They're in field goal range and Allen throws that interception. I think if they kick the field goal there, the packers just go to sleep, fly back to Cheese Land and it's all done. Instead they go, well, we might as well try to go down the field. Then they started throwing it and with Jordan Poyer, and we're waiting to hear about Poyer's injury. With Poyer off the field, secondary gave up a few plays. Yeah.

B (5:46)

And I've said it before, I'll continue to bang the drum of that. This is a, this has been a defense that for the last five years, six years, has been built back to front.

A (5:59)

Yep.

B (5:59)

And this is the first time I think Poyer and Hyde combined missed three games coming into this season. And now we have seen the Jalen Waddle play when Poyer was not in the game in Miami. That was kind of the back breaking play there. And this one wasn't back breaking, but it was another play where I can say confidently that that second touchdown pass from Rodgers doesn't happen with Jordan Poyer on the field.

A (6:26)

Yeah, demar Hamlin got turned around and look, he does some things really well.

B (6:31)

I like him.

A (6:31)

He's not Jordan Poyer, he's not Micah Hyde and he doesn't have either one of those guys next to him at the moment. Now we don't know. We know obviously Hyde's out, but we don't know what's going to happen with Poyer. But that being said, they looked a little vulnerable there. Yeah, Milano played great. Edmonds played really well. Thought the defensive line was impactful. Then again, sloppiness. They gave away a couple of sacks and good plays based on penalties. Ed Oliver jumped off sides.

B (7:03)

Tim Settle played well.

A (7:04)

Yeah, Settle played well. They lost another play on a sort of a ticky tack holding call on Dane Jackson. I think it was early, but it was, it was weird. It was like they were playing the Washington Commanders or playing the Jacksonville Jaguars. Maybe that's a bad example. And they're playing Green Bay and honestly, Dan, I think part of it was they never thought that team could beat them. They won't say that, but I don't think they ever thought they could beat them.

B (7:31)

I think they could have said, you could run the ball 30 times, you're still not going to come back. And that's what surprised me and that's what I've loved when this Bills team is done is that a lot of times when the Bills get up to those leads like they led by 14 points at halftime. You make opposing teams one dimensional.

A (7:50)

Yeah.

B (7:50)

So you get to pin your ears back as a pass rusher and go, well, they're gonna have to pass the ball. And even Von said he was shocked and he goes, I'm giving up rushing lanes. They're running by me because I'm just wanting to get after the quarterback because I'm going to. They got Aaron Rodgers. They're going to start throwing it at some point, right?

A (8:06)

Yeah.

B (8:07)

And they really didn't. I think midway through the third quarter, Rodgers had 82 passing yards like this. This is a shell of what the packers used to be. And I think some of that absolutely lulled them into a false sense of security that the game was over.

A (8:22)

Yeah. I do think I'm not going to overthink some of the things that went on in this game. The packers were playing without their, I guess you'd say, one, two and three receivers. These young guys made a few plays for them. They got some young talent on that team, but they got a bad vibe on that team, the Bills. That's not anybody to worry about. Rogers is.

B (8:43)

Rogers has to me, like Jake Cutler vibes.

A (8:48)

It's weird, isn't it? Like sitting on the bench.

B (8:52)

Yeah. Like. And then when he's. When he's in there and in the huddle, it just seems annoyed and. And disinterested and all of those things. And then, like I said, then he throws two great touchdowns and I go, oh, that's. That's it. But he just seems, like I said, bad vibes guy right now.

A (9:10)

Yeah. And so that team has their issues. That's them. As far as the Bills going forward, look again, I'm not focused on Allen.

B (9:19)

Right.

A (9:19)

The couple mistakes. He knows it. This is not 2018 Josh, though.

B (9:23)

Correct.

A (9:24)

You know, he did. He did play like him in the second half a little bit. Just. Just dumb plays. I mean, no. No need for them. And he did it a couple times and they never got anything going. Their second half drives were brutal. They. They had a field goal and then they had two picks and a punt. Like they did nothing in the second half. And that defense was aggressive, I would say. Now the other Thing I wanted to talk to you about was the trash talking.

B (9:50)

Awesome.

A (9:51)

And Diggs said he's never seen more of it or heard more of it, but he and Zaire. Alexander. Yeah, I mean, it was personal for whatever reason. And Alexander. Diggs got a touchdown, Alexander got an interception. And you know, Diggs went on and on about, you know, he hadn't seen it. And then he was like, I got the win. You know, we got the win.

B (10:13)

Yep.

A (10:14)

And Alexander, of course, you know, maybe team first here, he's thinking he gotta win. I don't know what. Because you gotta pick the game.

B (10:22)

Yep.

A (10:24)

But I thought it took the Bills out of their normal coolness. You know, normally they're just like lethally just put you away. Gabe Davis is pushing Alexander in the back and they were chirping the whole time. And I just thought there was. The Bills are. The Bills are too good for that. Now, that being said, that that got into a conversation with Diggs where people say what I just said about they're too good for that. And he gave a very thoughtful answer about no disrespect to people in the cubicle, I believe he said, but this is different. And I totally understand that. It's a physical, emotional game. You're competing at every level. But at some point, some teams stay calm and other teams get rattled. In the context of the NFL, teams do that. And in that context, knowing what kind of game it is, I think they could avoid some of that. I think. I think they will learn a little bit from this game, just getting away from what they do.

B (11:26)

Well, I think this team feeds off to a lot of what Stefan Diggs brings. I think whether it's like I said, he was introduced pre game and while most of the players do a little something and then run out like he was walking, firing up the crowd. They fed off that. And like you said, him and Jair Alexander, they were getting into it pre game when they were both coming on the field for warm ups. And it didn't stop there and it kept going. And it was going on during commercial breaks. It was a constant annoyance. And like you said, it's like the Bills are too good for that because the packers aren't a good football team. Don't go down to their level of having to chirp to feel like that's how you're going to win a play. It was that classic cornerback stuff where, like the ball is. No, the cornerback did nothing to cause an incompletion. And then it's like a celebration. It's like you didn't do anything.

A (12:28)

By the way, we mentioned that Von Miller loves everything. I think he even loves when teams celebrate down by 17 yards. He made the point of, you know, the packers are running down yelling to the Bills fans in the stands with the interception and they were down 17. Of course the Bills got it right back. And he did say, look, you celebrate those things because maybe that's what gets you back in the game. And oddly, it wasn't that one, but maybe the next one that could have gotten them back in the game because they drove down the field. But yeah, Green Bay, they've lost four in a row now. They're right now a bad football team. Yeah. So I think the Bills, who normally just bury somebody when they have them down, didn't do it. And I think any Bills fan listening to this knows you wanted to see that. You didn't get to see it. They're too good for that. So if they're. We'll see. Effort is a 10 point win against packers on Sunday Night Football. I guess you'll have to accept that.

B (13:25)

Yeah. But it's so funny how that second half distorts our memory of the first half.

A (13:32)

Yeah.

B (13:33)

Because I thought the first half, and I will even say this, they ran the ball well.

A (13:37)

They did.

B (13:38)

Singletary did like, like it was an offense that was just cutting through the packers defense like, like nothing. Especially touchdown pass. The touchdown pass, phenomenal. Also, like getting the stop getting the long connection to Diggs to set up the field goal at the end of the half. Like a lot of those things were just really easy and it felt like the Bills were on pace and on track to score 40 points again.

A (14:05)

Yeah.

B (14:05)

And they didn't. So while we're sitting here giving the hot takes in the post game and we could talk probably more about the second half than the first half. That shouldn't take away from the fact that they still looked good. Getting Isaiah McKenzie in the mix was nice to see.

A (14:22)

Yeah. James Cook ran. I said to you this the first time he hasn't looked like a rookie. He looked confident, he looked fast. So maybe there's something there. They obviously have more confidence in him than Zach Moss.

B (14:36)

And rookies develop at different paces and different speeds. I also think Greg Rousseau played a.

A (14:45)

Strong game, lost a sack due to a penalty when Ed Oliver went off sides there. He would add one there. But yeah, look, there were flashes that we mentioned in Milano, how he played and Edmonds. They had a lot of positives in the game. It's just, it just grinded to that weird place. The second half wouldn't end. The packers were kind of in it. Not. And they, they missed that field goal at the end, so at least they didn't have to live through an onside kick. So Josh wasn't happy afterward. McDermott was. He's got teaching points, no doubt, after this game. And I actually think they can learn some stuff from this game.

B (15:25)

Yeah.

A (15:25)

Because they. There was too many. Too many things that weren't buttoned up. It's not going to be perfect, but it's got to be better than that. It doesn't mean you got to score 40 and bury them. But one more field goal and certainly one more touchdown would have done it. And they need to do that. Don't. Don't let a bad team. And right now the packers are a bad team. Don't let a bad team stay in the game. Yeah, just put them away.

B (15:46)

Ugly win, but it's a win. It is. And you don't get bonus points or style points for. For, for pretty victories.

A (15:53)

So in hindsight, it's an NFC team that you beat. You should beat him. You were double digit.

B (16:00)

You're never going to see him again.

A (16:02)

The plus is it is a win. You're 6 and 1. They're two games up on the division with the jets losing. The jets game is going to be interesting. We'll talk about it this week. Guess Zach Wilson was terrible. I'd just seen the highlights. I saw a little bit of the game live. We had three interceptions. There's even some talk of Flacco playing.

B (16:20)

That's sad.

A (16:21)

They can't do that, can they?

B (16:23)

You can't.

A (16:24)

I don't know. Well, Mike White was the guy they played last year.

B (16:28)

Yep.

A (16:28)

And he got tortured by the Bills, so we'll see what happens. But it's division game. It's a big game. You gotta win those. They're 01 in the division, which seems strange, but that's their only loss was to the Dolphins, so. All right. Yeah. This is late nights.

B (16:44)

Yeah, Late, late nights. It was funny listening to Sean McDermott. He almost sounded like it was a loss after the game.

A (16:51)

It did.

B (16:52)

And Josh, I think was also in that same. Like he said, he had a crappy taste in his mouth. You could tell he was bothered by his performance. Calling him, you know, the turnovers stupid. And then Vaughn puts everything into perspective and Vaughn just being like classic von of being like, you know what? We always think we're going to come out there and just blow teams out. And that's it and step on their throats. He goes, that's not how it is in the NFL. And it's, it's hard. You got to enjoy these wins. And I think there is something to that. As we talk about sitting here saying we're moving the goal post back as this team is a Super bowl favorite and all of these things, it is nice to win a dirty game. It is nice to muck it up and prove that you can still win with that C game.

A (17:38)

Now, in fairness, because of the way the game played out and we've talked to every one of these players multiple, multiple times about all the great plays. It's not like we're focused on the negative, but it just happened to be the second half was not good. They knew it wasn't good and that kind of was where it went. If it would have been a reverse, it would have been they couldn't get their act together and then they blew them out. But it wasn't. The second half was not Buffalo Bills football. The standard as Sean McDermott says. So hey Bills fans, you have a standard too. You expect to to be better than that? Yeah, I don't have any long term concern. I really don't even have that much long term term concern about the run game.

B (18:21)

Me neither.

A (18:21)

I both sides offensively and defensively. I'd like to see them use some of the things that look good running the ball in the first half but it's harder to do in the red zone and in tight situations when they can get those yardages. But again they, they at least showed a little bit more. If they could move it up just a slight bit more, I'd be happy with it. That's all it takes. I still would have won the game easily.

B (18:45)

Yeah Mike, I know it's funny. We were talking right after the game. We were shooting our stuff for TV and for Buffalo YouTube channel. Check out the blog there as well that you said the Bills ran the ball really well and then couldn't when they needed to. That that was the thing was that Devin Singletary I think at 50 something yards in the first half finished with like 68.

A (19:05)

Now I will give them this in after the packers had scored to cut it to 10 couple late they ran the ball. So that's good. It's the four minute offense. It's what you need to do. A couple quick passes. That was good. Again nobody is, you know, putting this game in the. I watch it back and forth 30 times. It wasn't great. But hey, Aaron Rodgers is. I saw him walking off the field. He's going home with his fourth straight loss. Man, Rogers stinks this year. Brady stinks this year. Russell Wilson won, but he should stay in London. Holy cow, man, they don't want him.

B (19:45)

Aaron Rodgers arrived at the stadium today looking like a villain with his slicked back hair, sunglasses and like a black trench coat that went down to his ankles.

A (19:58)

Yeah, I don't know what his deal is. Somebody was joking, saying, wondering who he's going to blame for this week, but said it's probably going to be the play calling. I don't know. That's not going to end well in Green Bay, but that's their issues. Yep, Bill's focused on heading down to Jersey next week to play against the jets and we'll see if they can get a division win and move to seven and one on the air. Hey, thanks for being with us. We hope you enjoy the Buffalo plus podcast. For Dan Fates, I'm Mike Catalano. Please make sure to comment, give us a rating, let us know how we're doing on the podcast and we'll see you next time as we get set for New York.