Bills ‘BREAKOUT’ candidates and INTRIGUING position BATTLES

Summary

---

Buffalo Plus Podcast — Episode Summary

Episode: Bills ‘BREAKOUT’ candidates and INTRIGUING position BATTLES
Date: June 5, 2026
Hosts: Mike Catalana, Jenna Cottrell, Dan Fetes

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, the BuffaloPlus.com team dives deep into potential breakout candidates on offense and defense for the Buffalo Bills’ upcoming season, examines the expectations for rookie players, and identifies the most intriguing position battles as the team heads into mandatory camp and then training camp. With their trademark humor and chemistry, Mike, Jenna, and Dan also debate the ongoing narratives around key players and give listeners an insider’s perspective on the team’s roster construction and locker room dynamics.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Offensive Breakout Candidates

• Spencer Brown (RT) (03:42)

  • Mike: “I’m talking about a player who I think has been really good and I think he can move to that next level, Spencer Brown…he’s a tone setter on that O line.”
  • Hosts agree that Brown is under-appreciated around the league and could break into the national spotlight, especially after comparisons to Lane Johnson's career leap.

• Dion Dawkins’ Status and Concerns (05:07–10:44)

  • The panel debates Dawkins' performance, noting last season’s penalties and a concussion, but generally projects confidence that he’s still in his prime.
  • Jenna: “For me, the sample size is still too small, but I can understand why there would be some level of concern just going off he didn’t play his best last season.”
  • Dan: “I haven’t thought at all that Dion was some weak link in the chain. I’ve never had that.”

• Dalton Kincaid (TE) (12:05)

  • Dan: “Drinking the Kool-Aid...He has the physical ability. It was just a matter of can he be on the field enough to make a difference.”
  • Mike mentions fellow TE Jackson Hoss as a possible breakout, especially if the Bills run more two-tight-end sets.

• DJ Moore (WR) (14:00)

  • Jenna: “He hasn’t had a thousand yard season since 2023, and I think…having Josh as his quarterback…this could be the DJ Moore that was thought of a couple seasons ago.”
  • Debate on whether Moore’s addition opens up opportunities for Khalil Shakir.

• Osiris Torrence (G) (17:48)

  • Mike: “He just lined up from day one and plays every game.”
  • The hosts marvel at Torrence’s reliability, noting that sometimes the best thing for an offensive lineman is not being noticed.

---

2. Rookie Expectations: Recent History & 2026 Class (19:15–24:22)

• Impact of Current Rookies

  • Immediate need at pass rusher, with attention on first-rounder T.J. Parker.
  • Sklyer Bell (WR) described as “talented” but with “some struggles” early.

• Perspective from Past Rookies

  • Mike reviews stat lines for recent notable Bills rookies, illustrating how breakout years or solid debuts (like Gabriel Davis, Ed Oliver, James Cook, Dion Walker) have set a baseline for expectations.

• Davison Igbinosun (CB) (24:23–27:41)

  • Jenna: “He was picked before a lot of people expected…a different player [than Max Harrison].”
  • Panel is cautious on projections until more physical in-camp evaluation.

---

3. Defensive Breakout Candidates

• Ed Oliver (DT) (28:00)

  • Mike: “The reason I say Ed is because…he’s got to stay on the field, and he has shown that ability to play. It’s just not enough right through his career.”
  • Excitement about Jim Leonhard’s new system potentially freeing Oliver to use his strengths more effectively.

• Greg Rousseau (DE) (29:14)

  • Inside joke about Mike always picking Rousseau, but real optimism about his continued growth and durability: “He shows up for work.”

• Dion Walker (DT) (31:35)

  • Dan: “He can be really good…he can be big, numbers-wise, for Dion Walker.”
  • Noting his recovery from injury last year, better conditioning, and more polished demeanor.

• Cole Bishop (S) (34:24)

  • Jenna: “There was one point…he was dribbled like a basketball…but now…he has just been able to assert himself and really be a fun player to watch.”
  • Discussion of how his improvement, especially with a new running mate at safety, could mark him as a difference-maker.

---

4. Intriguing Position Battles

On Offense

• Wide Receiver Usage/Snaps (37:45–41:13)

  • Keon Coleman: Whether and how quickly he earns a real role is debated.
  • Dan: “I think it’s a foregone conclusion that when they line up week one… it’ll be Keon Coleman.”
  • Mike is less certain: “He got a lot of snaps by default… if it’s not productive, who knows?”

• Left Guard (41:28–42:58)

  • Alec Anderson considered the frontrunner, but Austin Corbett and David Edwards provide strong competition. Chemistry with Dion Dawkins is highlighted as crucial.

On Defense

• Cornerback (43:07–44:35)

  • Max Harrison as the penciled-in starter opposite Christian Benford, but the team might add a veteran later in camp.

• Linebacker (46:12–47:15)

  • Shaq Thompson’s name mentioned; hosts emphasize how difficult it is to project rookies at linebacker, drawing parallels with Terrel Bernard’s rapid adaptation last season.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Dion Dawkins’ role and concern

  • Jenna (06:32): “Two years is a trend. I think one year… I’m curious to see if he will bring it back to the style of play and level we have seen from Dion.”

• On Dalton Kincaid’s trajectory

  • Dan (13:22): “It wasn’t that long ago…I was like, they may not pick up his contract. This is very concerning…now all of a sudden he comes out here – knee’s great, looks better…and I’m starting to believe a little bit of hype.”

• Rookie breakout reality check

  • Mike (21:47): “If Skyler Bell puts up those [Gabe Davis rookie] numbers, you’re going to be thrilled, big time…He really helped.”

• On Cole Bishop’s transformation

  • Jenna (34:27): “There was one point…he was dribbled like a basketball…to see where he went from the beginning of last year to the end…he has just been able to assert himself and really be a fun player to watch.”

• On Jim Leonhard’s influence

  • Dan (35:30): “Some players are allowed to freelance if you’re that good…”

• On Terrel Bernard’s rookie to starter jump

  • Dan (47:01): “Terrel Bernard was like, my head was spinning as a rookie. And then the next year, he’s running the defense.”

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Breakout Candidates Introduction: 03:18
• Spencer Brown & Dion Dawkins discussion: 03:42–11:12
• Dalton Kincaid and TE room: 12:05–13:45
• DJ Moore’s fit and Shakir debate: 14:00–17:15
• Osiris Torrence/rookie expectations: 17:48–24:22
• Rookie Snapshots: 19:15–24:22
• Davison Igbinosun expectations: 24:23–27:41
• Defensive Breakout Candidates: 28:00–35:15
• Position Battles (Offense & Defense): 37:45–44:35
• Linebacker & Corner depth: 46:12–47:15

---

Additional Insights & Tone

• The hosts frequently joke with each other and reference inside jokes (“he was dribbled like a basketball,” “Roberta, thanks for watching…or not watching,” etc.), maintaining a lighthearted and conversational tone.
• Longtime listeners will recognize running themes: concern over new systems, the perpetual “who breaks out next?” question, and skepticism about projecting rookie impact before camp.
• There's an open acknowledgment of how difficult it is to evaluate certain positions (notably D-line and corners) before pads come on in camp.

---

Summary

This episode of Buffalo Plus offers a comprehensive preview as the Bills head into a pivotal offseason phase. The hosts thoughtfully weigh who’s ready to step up, which position groups offer the most intrigue, and where newcomers might surprise or disappoint. With insider information, balanced skepticism, and plenty of laughs, it’s a must-listen for Bills fans eager to parse the team’s next moves—and a valuable catch-up for those who missed the episode.

---

For more Bills coverage, visit BuffaloPlus.com and subscribe to Buffalo Plus on YouTube.

Transcript

[A]

Where he was the butt of the

[B]

jokes with the many of them were with you.

[A]

He was dribbled like a basketball and then all of a sudden you're going, he's a game changer.

[B]

But first of all, he looks fantastic. He looks different. I said he is that baby face. He just looked, he looked all grown up.

[A]

Now from the Connors and Ferris podcast

[B]

studio, this is the Buffalo plus podcast.

[C]

All right, welcome back to the Buffalo plus podcast. Mike Catalana, Dan Fates, I am Jenna Cottrell. Please be sure to like comment, subscribe and share. We are here in the Connors and Ferris podcast studio and today we're going to talk, be talking about, excuse me, breakout season candidates and apparently it won't be me by the way, I'm not able to talk today but breakout season candidates on offense, on defense, where we can set the, the expectations for rookies this upcoming season as well as the most interesting position battles as we head into mandatory camp coming up next week as well as training camp. And you know what comes after that.

[A]

Can I just give a shout out to maybe one of the best comments that we've had ever. Buffalo plus, what do you got? It was a candidate. It was a comment, not a candidate comment. Roberta Collins, 3963, Jenna and Mike, you guys are great together. Everything flows so smoothly without Dan. I don't even listen to the podcast if Dan is with you guys. Roberta, thanks for watching.

[B]

Hold on. She turned it on and she's gone. She was like click.

[A]

Actually the intro is just going to be you two so Roberta could at least get this far. I just love, I just love some of those.

[B]

So is this an early start towards your punishment? Yes, because that, that podcast is coming.

[C]

Yes, that one is coming up. We have not forgot. Also tease ahead, we will have the travel draft. I know a lot of people love that for the off season we get to pick Mike and Dan and I, we duke it out to see who

[B]

will get to go and this is a wild travel. There's a lot, a lot of stuff.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Holidays.

[B]

Holidays. Vegas. Yes. Yeah.

[C]

La.

[A]

So yeah, I just done, you know we, we always talk about pushing the comments and, and we read them like somebody messaged me and said, you know, content wise in the community that we've built that the last podcast was up for like 34 minutes and we already had 36 comments. Like it's incredible. Yeah, it is the interaction that we have get from you guys that are watching and liking and commenting subscribing. Really appreciate it and it's just, it's just really funny. Like some of the comments are just so good. And again, Roberta, thanks for watching. Thanks.

[B]

Or not watching. Or not watching.

[A]

No, she, she really liked your guys breakdown on Tuesday from OTAS when I wasn't there.

[C]

Well, it was, it was a little old school because it was just, it was just us.

[A]

Why is that old school?

[C]

Well, we worked together before you worked with us.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

I mean that, that's a, that's back

[B]

in the old days.

[C]

That's a fact.

[A]

How much, how often were you guys vlogging back then?

[C]

We were actually were. Yeah.

[B]

Facebook Live.

[C]

Yeah. We also run them on the newscast.

[B]

That's right.

[C]

Yeah. Be like, we got to eat up a couple minutes on the newscast.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay. All right, let's get back into it. So breakout season candidates. And I always feel like there's so much optimism going into the season, best shape of their life, type of time, year, time, year, timeline this summer. But you're going to lose, Roberta. I really can't talk today. Michael. Breakout season candidates. Let's start on offense. Who comes to mind?

[B]

You know, there's a guy that comes to mind sometimes when we say breakout candidate. You think of a player who hasn't excelled and now he's going to be good. I'm talking about a player who I think has been really good and I think he can move to that next level, Spencer Brown. Because we know Spencer Brown is being a really good offensive lineman and has become just a key guy and he's a tone setter on that O line and. But I don't think around the league and I'm not talking about people who are watching the tape, real NFL people who know it. I'm talking about in general. I don't think they realize how good this guy has been for the team.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And this is where we're talking about getting more recognition. And Deion has deserved a lot of his Pro bowl stuff and all. I think Spencer Brown is at that level. And I think, I just think maybe. And even this year, you know, it's changing the offensive line coach, you know, with Aaron Cromer retiring. And I just, I see him as a player who is already a leader in his way. Yeah. And I just think his physical ability. You know, it's funny because Lane Johnson just talks about how much he likes him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Lane Johnson went from being a good player to a great player and now he's probably a Hall of Fame player. And he sees a lot of himself, I think, in Spencer Brown. So I think he's one of those guys that can just be that impactful for this, for this team and taking it to the next level. And maybe that's just recognition.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or maybe it's his playoffs.

[A]

But that is when you become a breakout. It's more of a household name that more people would know around the league. Going off of that. Just did a radio hit this afternoon, and they were asking about, you know, the way that OTAs have been. Do you guys. And this is kind of spinning off of it. Do you have any concern about Dion Dawkins heading into this year? It has been such a staple. And maybe like, Jenna, like, what do you think? Just because. Yeah, there was the. You know, there was thrown out there that he could have been a trade candidate. And we haven't really seen him much, haven't talked to him much this off season. I was just curious, like, it was asked to me, but I want to know what you were thinking.

[C]

I. I think for me, like, I think Dion would be the first person to tell you he did not love the way he played throughout the entirety of last year. I think his white weight kind of crept up on him, and he talked about this offseason, wanting to lose that. I think for Deion, he's been such a. You say staple, but he really has been such a big piece of this offensive line and just what this team has been. And for me, I'm not. I think two years is a trend. I think one year. I'm curious to see if he will be able to bring it back to the style of play and the level of play that we have seen from Dion. So for me, the sample size is too still. Is still too small, but I can understand why there would be some level of concern just going off of. You know, he's another year older and he didn't play his best last season, but I am hopeful that he saw it in himself and can make those corrective changes to be the Dion we all know.

[B]

Two things happened last year, I think, with. With Dion. One was penalties.

[C]

Those are.

[B]

Those are very noticeable for an offensive lineman. Do you ever notice, you know, they call a penalty and it's like it's on the offensive line, and then they

[A]

cut right to the plate, cut to

[B]

him, and he's got his head down a little bit. And sometimes they look up at the screen, it just.

[A]

Yes, they show the rep. Like, I

[B]

didn't hold them look right now. Sometimes it's false starts, and everybody sees it. So those you notice, you're standing there, it's second and seven. Dion, a false start. That hurts. Second and 12. So you notice that. And the Houston game, which he had a concussion. Thank you. I said it during the game. He did not look right.

[A]

He went to the sideline, went to

[B]

the sidelines, and then he's back out there.

[A]

And then he missed two weeks plays.

[B]

He's a guy who plays. And then he played that way and it was terrible because Spencer Brown was with one arm, but you really noticed it and, and he was getting, it was tough. It was a really tough. Against a great D line.

[A]

That's putting it lightly.

[B]

I do think that that impacted the way people looked at him.

[A]

I agree 100%. When that question got posed to me, I never once thought for a second just like what you were saying. It's those moments. But besides that, I wasn't like, oh, they're getting beat all the time off this left side. And then the, the sack, the strip sack. Early in the third, the, early in the second half, the third quarter, the opening drive in the Denver game. K. Shakir chipped him too far past Dion Dawkins. But again, it gets made looked on Dion. I hadn't thought for really at all that Dion had some down year, that Dion was some weak link in the chain. I, I never had that. So when I got asked that question today, I didn't mean to be like, I didn't want to come across dismissive, but I was like, I have not thought about like being worried about, hey, the Bills have to start thinking about a left tackle in the future. I, I've never thought that.

[C]

I do think though, the penalties are a very easy and obvious spot for you to be like, come on, Dion. Yeah, you need to be better at that. I totally hear what you're saying. And again, that's why my confidence is in Dion being able to continue to play the level we have seen from him. But I do understand sometimes when your most veteran guy is the one that's taking those penalties in big spots. Now, context, it matters in a Houston game as well as Denver with the Khalil Shakir stuff. But, but I do think sometimes it's easy to be like, hey, he's been at such a level, like, is he going to be able to continue this?

[B]

And the weight is something he is conscious of. He is very, I think he just posted a picture. I, I, I saw it. I think it was him. It, I think it was like, you know, one of those grilled chicken kind of pictures, you know, where it's like, I'm eating Right. And this is what I'm doing. And I think we haven't seen him. Like you said, we haven't seen him as much.

[A]

He's been there.

[B]

He's been there. Yeah, yeah, he. But I think he's getting it. And look, he is also at that age, offensive lineman can play for a while, but it's also a year where time where you're like, okay, let me be the guy that can play to 36.

[A]

Agreed. And I wanted to say, like, I think of what, you know, Trent Williams has done, what Lane Johnson has done. I don't see deion at, what, 32. I don't see this as, like, the back nine of his career. I still think he has a year or two left in his prime. Prime. And then he's still very good with his hands. You talk, watch, Google it or put it through Twitter. And he does that chop move like he's a tactician. Like, he's got really good footwork all to go with it that I don't see all of a sudden that he's just going to fall off a cliff.

[B]

Funny, though, because right away you start looking at salaries and you're like, when you look at the Bill's roster, like, who do you extend? Who could be out? Right. And that's natural. And they haven't done that with Deon, so that's going to be telling because they can use his contract to save some money on the cap, but now you're pushing it out. So go buy what they say. Go buy what they do.

[C]

Speak louder than words.

[B]

Right. So I do think there is going to be a moment when, if we see that, let's just say they want to extend somebody else. Whatever it is, you're going to make a deal at the deadline, whatever it

[A]

happens to be what they didn't do with Taryn Johnson.

[B]

Right. And that. Exactly. And then they say we're restructuring Deon.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

That would be a sign in many cases, in that case, where he would. He would be, you know, he'd be around for a while.

[A]

Okay, sorry. I know we get off sometimes on these tangents, but I go. It was like we were literally thinking about what we were going to podcast today about, and it was the breakout candidates and the intriguing position battles. And when you talked about Spencer Brown, it just made me think about, man, I feel like there's some whispers outside that are like, hey, is. Is Dion okay? And I've never once thought, yeah, be

[B]

kind of cool if. I think it would help if. If he's hearing that. Because I think Dion's a very prideful guy, especially about protecting Josh 100%. I think he's heard some of it. He had some social media stuff.

[A]

Exactly. About, like, when it was brought up, like they could trade Dion this offseason. And he's like, with. Again, I think of him as like the staple in the offensive line. And like I said, he was there before Josh. And so when you start to think about that in the personality and hey, talks a lot about vibes around. Around Orchard Park.

[B]

This is a vibes guy.

[A]

Dion is vibes. So it just would kind of.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know.

[A]

I like Dispenser Brown as the breakout, you know, because I think he's been a really good right tackle that doesn't get the national recognition.

[C]

Agreed. Is there anyone else on the offense? Dalton Kincaid. Yeah. Okay, go ahead.

[A]

Drinking the Kool Aid.

[C]

Speak on it.

[A]

And I have been very critical of Dalton Kincaid. But you talked about it when he spoke, it sounded just a little bit different. I was trying to actually think about it. I really kind of like the Bill's wide receiver or tight endrum.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, as a whole, that's why one

[B]

of my candidates as a breakout guy is another tight end, Jackson Hoss. I think they're going to use him even more.

[A]

Like, I. The way that it's built. If Dalton can be what they thought he was or like I've mentioned, he doesn't need to be Trey McBride. He doesn't need to be George Kittle. But if he can be a top 7 to 10 tight end and be

[B]

on the field 50% of the time

[A]

and then they're able to be more balanced. And I'm not asking him to dig out defensive ends, but if he can be more of a factor in the running game, I just think that this could be, you know, he has the physical ability. It was just a matter of can he be on the field enough to make a difference. To make a difference. So again, if he's. It wasn't that long ago, two months ago, I was like, we did the pod talking about injury management already.

[B]

Because Bean talked about that, right? Yeah.

[A]

At the owner's meeting. And I'm going, dude, they're not gonna. They may not pick up his contract. Like, this is. This is very concerning to where his knee is. And now all of a sudden he comes out here, he's like, knees great, looks better. Not he doesn't look like Landon Jackson, but he looks better.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And all of a sudden I'm starting to believe A little bit of hype.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm not one to drink the Kool Aid with. With Dalton Kincaid, I've been skeptical.

[C]

Yeah. I have someone that I think you might be surprised to hear of as a breakout candidate because he is more established, but I think DJ Moore.

[B]

Oh, that's not where I.

[C]

So I know that might not be what you're expecting, but he's had a down couple of years.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

He hasn't had a thousand yard season since 2023. And I think for him, you know, he kind of got. I don't want to say lost with the Bears, that. That's too strong of a word, but

[B]

like, that's pretty close, pretty accurate.

[C]

I. I think that this is an opportunity for him to be closer to the player like he was a couple of years ago. And I think having Josh as his quarterback, it seems like they've been trying to get on the same page as one another. And I think that that is a process that does take time. But I think I am encouraged by what I've seen from DJ Moore and I think that he could be the DJ Moore that was thought of a couple seasons ago and what that would do for the Bills offense would be tremendous if that comes to fruition. But DJ Moore is someone that I think of where, look, it's not the most like hot take of all time. I know that. But I do think that he can be a production guy for this offense that they have been looking for at that Topper. Topper. More top talent.

[B]

I cannot speak for just top talent. Does he impact Khalil Shakir in that way? Maybe not as much with the numbers, but look, they needed that guy to help Shakir, right? I mean, we've talked about this. I've said this about Rousseau, you know, and now hear me out. I've said this about Rousseau. If you're Khalil Shakir, if you're the. If you're the other team for the last. Last year, like which wide receiver were you worried about?

[A]

You weren't.

[B]

You weren't. And if you were in. Anybody in maybe in a moment is Khalil Shakir, are they going to run him on the jet sweep? There's a screen pass. They're going to try to get him in the slot. Like whatever they were doing with him. If DJ Moore is that player, and maybe it doesn't always just show up in the numbers, maybe he opens things up. I do think there's not a JSN rise for Shakir, but there is a place where he goes from 700 to a th.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. Can't that happen?

[C]

Be nice if they have you look skeptical.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You don't think DJ could open up stuff for Shakir?

[B]

I don't know.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Maybe Kincaid opens it up for him too.

[C]

That.

[A]

Yeah. It's. I just have a hard time thinking like this thought of like Shakir can play on the outside. Right. That's what. No, I know, I know. I'm just saying like it's tough to be with Shakir's skill set. Shakir's skill set. He doesn't necessarily have the wiggle or the burst to necessarily be a dynamic slot guy to get a thousand yards. Could it happen? Absolutely. I just don't necessarily.

[B]

He's a outstanding run after catch guy and I'm only saying is open up the field for him a little bit.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

He's a. He's very good at route running, sure hands and he's very good after the catch.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He's just getting the ball at the line of scrimmage.

[A]

Within three yards.

[B]

10 yards down the field, eight yards, six yards. Truly anything.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Past the three.

[A]

We need to like said there needs to be levels to those wide receiver passing game.

[B]

It's.

[A]

It's very 10 yards and in that. That is what it has.

[B]

Sometimes not even 10.

[A]

Right. It's behind. Behind the line.

[B]

Behind the line of scrimmage.

[A]

That's why I have this hard time like thinking that DJ Moore who I know can get down the field.

[B]

He plays on the outside. I know. Had that. It's Keon over there.

[C]

I know.

[B]

And they weren't worried about him. DJ Moore has. DJ Moore is the kind of player in his career has brought additional coverage. Keon is not that guy. Or he certainly hasn't.

[C]

Has not been that.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. Anyone else on the offense?

[B]

I don't know. I guess we'll see from Osiris Torrance if he plays even better. He might. He's his way out of Buffalo.

[C]

He's been really good.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

He's just one of those guys you forget about. And I mean that with the utmost respect. Like because he is so. What?

[B]

No, I was gonna say I have stuff on the rookies. I almost just put him in his own category. The guy just lined up from day one and plays every game.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what's so funny? We've talked about like defending rookies playing and we've defended that they. Bean has been able to find B plus picks. Bean has struggled to hit the home runs like the Rams have drafted and other things of that. It's almost like you forget about Torrance because he has just been so solid, so steady. And that's like the best thing you can say about some offensive lineman is

[B]

like you don't notice him, especially when it's day one.

[A]

Like he basically walked and plays 99.8% of snaps.

[B]

Are we going to get now the other guard, maybe the new guy?

[A]

Correct.

[B]

He's going to get those extra snaps. Let's give Torrance a little break. He gets off for like five snaps,

[C]

you know, and I feel like he's a guy we really don't know much about. Like personally. We should do a story with those.

[B]

Shows up, does his job.

[C]

Yeah. Want to know who he is?

[B]

Kind of like Dan Quiet. Shows up, does his job. No one knows.

[C]

Under the radar. You would, you wouldn't even know he's around. All right, why don't you get into. Before we get to the breakout candidates on defense are there in terms of the rookies. Yeah. What do you think we can expect?

[B]

I mean, I think it's the position. They probably need the help immediately. I still, I think is pass rusher and they drafted the guy first, so. Right. If T.J. t.J. Parker can be in that rotation, can be someone that looks like at his. So I was Looking here Greg Russo, 20, 21, four sacks, eight tackles for loss. Okay. A couple of moments, but nothing. Nothing great. Similar draft status. Right. Because. Yeah, you know, it was close.

[A]

It's like 30th.

[B]

30th pick.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But that's kind of what we've seen. But I think when you look at the rookies, you know, considering they didn't have a second round pick and now you're trying to figure out where else everything goes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Skyler Bell. I don't know. You know, it's. It's early on him. He's had some struggles. Again, I'm not going to get too worked up over the minicamps, but I would say that's the place they need the help. It's a different defense and he's a talented guy who may get every opportunity to stay out there on the field. Yeah.

[A]

And like I said, the rookies that they've drafted, I think just like we talk about, it's sometimes the outliers that get the most attention. It's the, it's the kair. Like, oh, that's. But they have, they have had productive. Like I even think about Dorian Williams like a productive guy that has maybe not in the rookie year made a Big impact, but has been a part of it and moving forward.

[B]

But that's kind of what I looked at was specifically the rookie year, only because you're going from a player that has no track record at all in the league. So I, I, I looked at a few from like 2019 on, you know, after Josh was there. Dawson Knox. Remember the fact that he had never caught a touchdown, never caught a touchdown in High School. 388 yards. Looked the part though, pretty early on and you're like, okay, encouraging ed Oliver in 2019. Had five sacks, seven tackles for loss. Also was in and out a little bit. They weren't happy with them early.

[A]

At one point, early in his time.

[B]

Yeah, 2020, Zach Moss. Pretty productive.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

480 yards rushing. Decent a little bit in the past game.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

One of the most productive rookies they had was one Mr. Gabriel Davis. Just under 600 yards, seven touchdowns. Impactful playoff game.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Very good night. Put it to you this way. If Skyler Bell puts up those numbers, you're going to be thrilled big time. He really helped. I mentioned Russo. James Cook. 507 yards rushing as a rookie. Another 180 receiving because he wasn't even supposed to be the runner, he was supposed to be the pass catcher. Kind of funny. Okay, I'm going to do two to guess this and maybe you know it. Christian Benford. My memory of Christian Benford as a rookie is him lining up as the starter in la.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

How many games did he play that year?

[A]

Started or played?

[B]

Played.

[A]

He played.

[C]

Was that the year he had his concussion?

[A]

Nine.

[B]

Exactly. So he ended up.

[C]

That was impressive.

[B]

Dan, do you know, remember the either injury?

[C]

Was it a concussion?

[B]

Nope. Broke his hand. Concussion happened in the playoff game. Later, a couple years later, the back concussion in Kansas City, he broke his hand, missed I think one or two games. Oblique injury. Missed the rest of the year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So the only reason I bring it up is look how good he is. But as a rookie he was, he was good and he was on the field and he showed he could play, but he only ended up playing in nine of those games. Shakir. Nothing really during the year. Good in the playoffs? Yeah, he had really good.

[A]

It was like the Littsburgh game.

[B]

Was it?

[A]

Yeah, it was like the last like three games. And I remember people, people being like, well, you're just going to take that and you're just going to keep extending it out. I was like, that's not how projections work.

[B]

No, but I mean he became a obviously product but during the regular season I think he. I think he had like, one catch. Yeah. Maybe it's a couple. Whatever. Kincaid's numbers were very good. 73 catches, 673. Torrance, as we said, just. He just lined up and he played Keon's. Keon's numbers. High yardage for 29 catches, 556 yards. But we know. And Dion Walker last year, 17 games played every game, eight tackles for loss. Pretty impactful player. Maybe even more this year.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So that's. That's the good. And you know, these are. These are sort of the best statistical numbers, but I bring that up only because, you know, like, Gabe was impactful in part that year because Dable loved him playing all three positions, and when he was out there, he was at his right spot.

[A]

Yep.

[C]

And because Diggs, you had that ability to.

[B]

Beasley Diggs, you had those guys out there, which took some pressure off. Yeah, absolutely. And he did it. Filled his role kind of like Dion Walker in a way.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, he found his role and then was effective and then. Let's see. But I think Dion Walker's got a chance to be.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That every down guy.

[C]

Speaking of rookies and kind of expectations, we can get to the defensive breakout candidates in a moment, but I'm curious where you guys are setting your expectations for Davidson, Ogbon, igb, where. What do you expect from this rookie season?

[B]

It's hard for me to. To think of it until we really see him in true competition, even. Even at camp a little bit.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Played at a high level at Ohio State.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

You don't want to talk to Ohio State fans about it.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

Because they, you know, they saw the penalties. They saw that stuff. But he's obviously a competitive guy. He has the physical tools. I don't think he's crazy elite athlete.

[A]

No.

[B]

He's big at NFL level.

[A]

He's bigger. He's the six' one. He's a little bit longer. More. Yeah. A little bit of. Of that frame compared to Max. And. Yeah, that's so tricky. Obviously, we've talked a lot about through the content that we gather through these minicamps and OTAs. Right. And just go back like the radio, they were asking me about Landon Jackson and what are your expectations for Landon Jackson? And I was like, I. I don't know. And I go, I really won't have a hard opinion on him until, like, the middle of camp. Like, I saw somewhere that Ben Johnson, I think, was asked about it. Like, how do you. How do you evaluate defensive line in practices where they're not wearing pads and he's like, yeah, you can calls it fool's gold.

[B]

Right?

[A]

So like to sit here and like, I know it's the NFL and it is 365 days a year, 24 7, like that is what it is. But to have these like thoughts about how these players are going to fit in and what my expectations are for igb. It's. It's tough to really have a take for a guy that loves take just spews out takes.

[B]

You're talking about.

[C]

Well, I only saying that too because they traded up in the second round to get him. And so I feel like he was. He was picked before a lot of people expected him. He was projected like a third, fourth round pick. The Bills traded up, getting back in the second round to. To pick him at a position where him and Max Harrison are just very different body types. That it's a different player. That's why I'm like, that is interesting to me because that always said that says something to me.

[A]

But we may also not know who he really is or how he fits in until like week three.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's also totally fair too because when Jim Leonard talks about it was like, we need depth. Well, you hopefully you don't have to use the depth because if we don't know who IGB is until week eight or nine, that means Max is playing well and is developing.

[B]

You started, you get. You just gave the Marv line. What was the Marvel line? Depth is a great thing until you

[C]

have to use it.

[B]

Right? But in the case and even like when Marv was really coaching, man, it was two corners on the field a lot. And then maybe the nickel guy comes in later. You got three corners out there all the time. Yeah, three or more sometimes, depending on what it is. So. And then, you know, the other guy is D. Alford there. And the idea of how do we know 5gb doesn't end up in this in the slot?

[C]

Igb.

[A]

Igb.

[B]

Igb. RGB.

[A]

Davidson. Igbosan.

[C]

Yes. All right, let's go more defense then breakout candidates. Actually, Dan, I'll start with you.

[A]

Don't go to me first.

[C]

Okay, Michael, I'll start.

[B]

Really, man, what is it with you backing away from hot takes?

[A]

I know.

[B]

Here's one.

[C]

Are you sick? Are you ill?

[B]

All right, I'm going to go with a fever. I'm going with Ed Oliver on the D line.

[A]

All right, I'm going to go with Ed Oliver.

[B]

See, he wants to be.

[C]

He wants to be us.

[B]

Yes, exactly.

[C]

It should be Us on the couch.

[B]

The reason I say Ed is because, one, he's got to stay on the field, and he has shown that ability to play. It's just not enough right through his career. And he's been in the same system the whole time. Everybody seems to be encouraged by what they've seen. That's a different projection than talking about Landon Jackson, because Ed Oliver is something a guy we have seen. It's like DJ Moore. We have seen success in the NFL. Now you're saying is maybe in this system, freeze him up a little bit. Even Jim Leonard saying that. And Jim Leonard hasn't really been, you know, saying a ton about anybody, but talking about freeing him up a little bit. That would be an immense thing for this defense. One, if Ed stays on the field and two, if this really opens up his game. What do you got? How did he not Rousseau. Greg Rousseau's getting 15 sacks this year. He did it with the number. That means Ed Oliver is getting 91 tackles for loss.

[A]

Greg Russo has been Mike's breakout candidate for the last three years, and he finally is. He's moved on.

[C]

He's turned the page.

[B]

No, I haven't. It's just one of my breakout.

[C]

I remember I asked Leslie Frazier before the start of the season, when was this? I mean, Leslie frazier was the Bill 22. And I was like, who do you think is prime to have a breakout season? And he said, Greg Rousseau.

[B]

Has Ed Oliver had the most better total career than Greg Russell?

[A]

Yes, yes, yes. He. Greg. Ed Oliver has taken over more games than Greg Russo has not recently.

[B]

How about that?

[C]

Well, he was also.

[B]

I always have Cleveland

[C]

say also Ed was injured like all of last.

[B]

Well, that.

[A]

No, no.

[B]

But that plays into it. Hold on.

[A]

Cleveland should be on a T shirt. And the back is. It's a. I'll always have Cleveland and that. It's Rousseau 15 on the back.

[B]

But to your point, that's part of it because Ed has unfortunately gone through a lot of injuries. He did have the nine. Nine sacks. I know sacks isn't always a. A number that tells the total story for a guy like Ed in his position. But, you know, Rousseau is a guy who lines up every week and he plays, and that is. That is. There is something to that. He shows up for work.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

The only reason I bring.

[A]

He's always there, but I get cowed on them, like, yes, but the clock is there.

[B]

But Ed has dealt with injuries and he's been off the field, and that has been impactful to this team. He's he's, let's see, he was 20, 19. So what's he been there? Two years more. Two years more than Greg.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, it's so funny.

[C]

What. Who do you.

[A]

He's always been there. He gets him in and out of the huddles. Really?

[C]

Well, when you said he shows up for work, I was thinking he gets him in and out of the huddle.

[A]

It's my favorite thing that. The most backhanded compliment you could give. What do you think about Tremaine Edmonds? He's so great at getting us in and out of the huddle. Yeah, but what about actually playing the position? So what is Mike typing? What are you.

[B]

I'm just looking at something here.

[A]

Yeah, what are you gonna look up?

[C]

Go. What's your breakout defense?

[A]

Dion Walker. Because I think he can be, you know. Oh, oh, that's wrong. I think he can be really good. I think the fact of what he showed in his rookie year and remember he wasn't doing pretty much anything at this time of the year. Last year he was dealing with recovering from a broken back and maybe in this scheme with Jim Leonard talking about freeing guys up, generating more one on ones for defensive linemen on guards and centers, I think this could be big numbers wise for Dion Walker. We saw the tackles for a loss. Now, again, he's a guy that has a bigger, like a higher center of gravity because he is six, seven and all this stuff. So there were times when he got pushed back, like where you were like, oh, that wasn't great. But then he would be able to split double teams like Ed Oliver and he's the size of a house.

[B]

I was laughing because we were talking to him the other day and he was talking about his weight and he's like, He's. I'm down £10 and there's. And then he was asked about his weight and he's like, it's just when you hear a human being say, yeah, I was at 3:38 and now I'm at 3:28. But first of all, he looks fantastic. He looks different. I said, he is. That baby face. He just looked. He looked all grown up. Honestly, I'm sitting there talking to him and I'm like, he did seem different to me. He's a young, kind of fun, talkative, like that guy. And he seemed like, I'm ready to go this year. So I know he. In terms of like, people thought he was going to gain weight and maybe get bigger. They wanted him back. He went, that's the other way that they wanted from him.

[C]

Didn't Ed say at camp he was like a bear with ballerina legs? Yeah, I know what you're saying, though, in terms of his demeanor, because I feel like you see that after a. A rookie season, like, guys just know where their feet are. Like, it's such a whirlwind that first year. And I think for players like you saw the flashes with Dion Walker, and that is always encouraging because there's so much being thrown at them in year one that if they're able to make plays, that's always a good indicator of, like, all right, that's where they really didn't know what they were doing, you know, as they're, like, kind of acclimating to the NFL, so what can they do in year two?

[B]

How consistent is Russo played 14 games as a rookie? Next year, 16. Next year, 16. Next year 16. Next year, 16. You know why you didn't play 17? Because the top players sit out that last game. That's what happens.

[A]

Yeah. The best I. I could say something so mean, and it just.

[C]

I don't want to be mean.

[A]

I don't want to be mean either.

[B]

There's no reason.

[C]

All right, well, let me go to my candidate, then.

[B]

Let's go.

[C]

Availability Cole Bishop.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I just think, first of all, from his rookie season, a year two, talk about a change. Like, there was one point, and I vividly remember Daniel saying, he was dribbled like a basketball. That was actually the beginning of this last season.

[A]

It was the beginning of the last year. Robinson dribbled him like a basketball.

[C]

But there was a point where we were like, this guy can't play. Why is he even out there? To see where he went from the beginning of last year to the end of this last season.

[A]

And.

[C]

And I understand there's a scheme change, but I think for him, he has just been able to assert himself and really be a fun player to watch. And now having another year under his belt and having his confidence grow from last season, I'm excited to see how he can add to this defense and just what could open up for him, because I think he can be someone that, you know, other teams fans are like, oh, you got to watch out for Cole Bishop.

[A]

I agree. It is crazy to think about his trajectory inside of a season where he was the butt of the jokes with

[B]

the many of them with you.

[A]

He was dribbled like a basketball.

[B]

You know what? I was thinking about him one there, like.

[A]

And then all of a sudden you're going, he's a game Changer for this defense.

[C]

I mean, I think of that Jacksonville game. Obviously, Trey had the interception, but, like, Colby was right there and on that plate. Like. Yeah.

[B]

I was thinking about what it's going to be like for him. He really started to excel when Jordan Poyer got next to him. Yeah, he needed that stability and all. Jordan Poyer is tough as nails, all those things. Not like it didn't feel like always going, always talking. Now he's got cj, gj.

[C]

Man, that is. That is true, because that's a. That's.

[B]

But that's also a playmaker.

[C]

That's also a bit of a wild card.

[B]

It's also Poyer. He knew where he was going to be. He's in the right spots making the plays, whereas Gardner Johnson is a little more of a wild way.

[C]

But I do think now that Cole has.

[B]

I agree.

[C]

He has more just playing experience. I think you're able to freelance a little bit better as opposed to year two, when you really looked lost.

[A]

That's funny. When we talk about that seems to be kind of how CJ GJ's time in, like, Houston kind of fizzled out. Like, they're a defense. That is, they just line up and go. And you have.

[B]

They didn't wait very long.

[A]

No. And so he was kind of a guy that freelanced and that didn't work out well in that system. But some players are allowed to freelance if you're that good. Like I think of Rasmus, Darlene on the Sabers, like, he gets to do whatever the heck he wants because only

[B]

his mind goes from.

[C]

Yeah, I know you're saying. But yeah, anything was that.

[A]

Continue.

[B]

You went from cj, GJ to Rasma Stali.

[C]

They're just the same.

[A]

Talking about how they freelance, and sometimes we're especially more on the football field. Somebody's not in the right spot, you're banking on them being the right spot. There's a problem.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Watching the Sabers games, you can be like, why is that defenseman there? And then you're like, oh, it's Darlene. He can do whatever he wants because he can make up for it. And he's the best player on the ice.

[C]

Really good.

[A]

That was my analogy, Michael.

[B]

Good point. Well done.

[A]

No, it wasn't. All right.

[C]

Most interesting position battles. We'll go offense.

[B]

I mean, there's. There's really. Well, honestly, it'll be interesting to see the snaps that Keon earns on the field this year.

[A]

That's an interesting way of putting. We say interesting a lot. We Got to get the doll, the coin jar back. Going for that. But yes.

[C]

And all those things.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

[A]

I said you looked nice today.

[C]

You did some wearing real clothes and

[A]

I take it all back.

[B]

Continue.

[A]

You were the one that opened.

[B]

I know, but you seem like you, you wanted to say something.

[A]

It's just a pop up. Don't worry about the rolling shiny object. Mike looks away.

[B]

Now I've lost his.

[C]

Where? Where? You're talking about Keon.

[B]

The only reason. Yeah, I say that was because, let's be honest, he got a lot of snaps by default.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

It's like Keon's gonna play and because they needed him and then it went sideways and he got, you know, he gets benched and he gets deactivated and all that and he's back. We'll see about Josh Palmer and I know we see him with the ankle now.

[A]

How is he?

[C]

Still injured his ankle.

[A]

But that's what happened in the week four. Like Michael Hoyt tore his Achilles like two months later and. Yeah, it's just concerning.

[B]

It is concerning.

[C]

Oh, for sure.

[B]

Right. But you know, so you see there is competition there and DJ Moore is going to take some of those, a lot of those snaps on the outside. So then the question is that's the only reason. It's not necessarily a position battle, but I guess it kind of is in a way.

[A]

I guess I kind of made a face when you talked about how many snaps he's going to earn because I think it's a foregone conclusion that when they line up week one and they come out in three wide, it'll be Keon Coleman.

[B]

Foregone, huh?

[A]

I really do really look him out, Josh being the shotgun, James Cook next to him, Kincaid in one slot, Shakir Keon and dj.

[B]

Yeah, you're. You're probably right. Which is what it was last year when they played Baltimore and he had a good game and there was hope from a lot of people that this

[A]

was the coming out.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And it wasn't. So maybe it is this year, but I don't think he's going to get. Well, I shouldn't say he's going to get. I don't know what he's going to get. I don't know if he's going to get the non stop snaps if it's not productive.

[A]

I think they're going to much like they have kind of said like if they trust him like they've said and they've had his back. I think he is Going to get every chance. I really do. I. I just think that they're going to. In a sense, and I. For lack of a better word, I think they're going to force it because that's. That's been the narrative that they have shown.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That they are going to force it. That he is going to be a factor to whatever extent it is. They want him to be a factor in this offense this year. And I just.

[B]

We. But they also.

[A]

History would say that we know what

[B]

the outcome is, but they also showed last year that when he wasn't doing his job, they sat him down.

[C]

But that was also a different.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So you don't. I don't know. You know what I mean? Like, you just. We genuinely don't know.

[A]

Intriguing.

[C]

Head coach.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

The NFL is a meritocracy, so at some point you would imagine that they would. If it wasn't working. At some point, you have to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. I didn't want to be a dead horse here.

[C]

Yeah. That's fair. All right. Left guard.

[B]

Left guard. Yeah. I think it's. It feels like it's Alec Anderson's job to.

[C]

They brought in Austin Corbett as well.

[A]

Yep.

[C]

David Edwards saw him talking about Tyler Shuck.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

He played with some pretty good quarterbacks.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Did you just throw in Tyler Shuck with Josh Allen?

[A]

Nope. I said it's been Stafford.

[B]

Right.

[A]

He's Josh Allen.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

A couple MVPs.

[B]

He was talking about those guys leading into. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But I would like to. I like New Orleans.

[C]

I like New Orleans, too.

[B]

I think they're going to be pretty good.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But.

[C]

Yeah. Okay. Left guard.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I think they feel like they've seen Anderson play not that much in terms of, you know, he played tackle in the game.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And now they got him, you know, guard to start. But I do think. I think they're going.

[A]

He's always felt like too. Like the emergency center.

[B]

Yeah. But I think they're going to want. The guy doesn't make mistakes, can work well with Deion. That's going to be a big thing, too, because you talked about a guy who was really smart next to Deion and the way Deion plays, his style, it really worked. I think that's what you're going to see. They're going to want to know. Let's make sure that, you know, you can't. You really can't have weak links in an offensive line as best you can. You got to protect against that. Let's see. I. I do think it's it's probably his job. Like I said, his job to lose.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Or to not earn. Right. Because they. I think the thought would be it's him. But they did bring in competition.

[C]

Yeah. All right. Defense. Side

[A]

linebacker.

[C]

I would also say.

[A]

I mean, every position.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you just want to like pulling position group out of the hat Corner. You know who's quarterback, too. Safety's pretty much.

[C]

Safety is.

[A]

That's about it.

[B]

Safety is set because Gardner Johnson has been a starter in this league for most of us and we know that

[A]

the defensive line is going to rotate.

[B]

But I do think it's max until it's not.

[C]

I think it also. But I kind of feel like what you were saying, they invested a lot of draft capital.

[B]

I still think there's a.

[C]

Just last season.

[B]

There's a veteran corner coming in at some point.

[C]

You think Trey,

[B]

you think about it. If you have Max and you have a rookie on the other side, you're not wrong. Right.

[A]

I just don't know if Trey signing up to.

[B]

I didn't even say he was Trey. I mean, there'll be veteran corners.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

I just think they would. At some point. They're going to feel Jim Blander is going to feel better with another guy who has been out there also working on a story.

[A]

It'll be up Friday in some capacity. The fact that Christian Bedford is now the veteran in this Cornerback's room at 25 years old is fascinating. The way that he says he's always been preparing to be a vet since he was 17 years old as a freshman at Villanova. Really cool. Kind of get whenever you can, peel back Christian Benford a little bit and get him talking.

[B]

He's funny and he. He's a funny guy.

[C]

He is.

[B]

He's got a sense of humor. And then he.

[A]

Mike s. Mike asked a question and his response is, what are you asking me?

[B]

Of course, then it turned out to be a very good question and he gave a very good answer. Once we. Once we got on.

[C]

Once he understood what you were asking.

[A]

I think of Catalana and Benford is just hand in hand. You guys are just a perfect match.

[B]

We were good.

[C]

Your question. I was like, what is he at asking?

[B]

Because he. He was asked about being a rook freshman and his coach saying, hey, be a vet. Act like a vet.

[A]

What do you.

[B]

And I said to him, wow, isn't it something that you were asked that question at, what, 18 years old? And here you are repeating it to us now. Did you realize how much that would mean to you? Maybe I said a little clearer.

[C]

I was saying that was. As someone who was there. That was way clearer.

[A]

Also very.

[B]

Then we came around. We got on the same.

[A]

It was also very funny. Talking about the Sabers.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, he loved it.

[A]

And the fact that he goes some Sal. I go, yeah, you're at the Sabers game. And he's like, no, I wasn't. He was like, yeah, you were. He's like. He's like, oh, yeah. He's like, you see me? He's like, oh, yeah. I was trying to be like. He goes, I just had got me and the wifey.

[B]

He said, yeah, we were, they were,

[A]

they were all about it.

[B]

But he, yeah, he just wanted to sit in the seats. And he's big into hockey now. He's a. Hockey was fun. Yeah.

[C]

Cool atmosphere. He said it was really cool, like, because at Bill's games, obviously he's on the field. It was really cool to be a part of an atmosphere like that. The fans all cheering and you were in it as opposed to being out there.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I thought that was interesting. You don't ever think of that perspective.

[A]

He's like, yeah, I want to go to more games, like, but I guess I'll have to wear a hat and a hoodie and be more incognito. Is very funny.

[C]

Yeah. All right. Anything else, gentlemen?

[A]

Linebacker. I mean, again, I, I, I still think there's more help coming in. Linebacker.

[B]

Shaq.

[A]

Could be Shaq.

[B]

I like Shaq.

[C]

You, you, you don't like Shaq?

[A]

This is also the time of the year when coaches all have a plan for a player, and then media fans kind of go like, oh, did you hear this? Like, I thought Jim Leonard had nice things to say about Elam's or people are now I feel like, oh, he's going to be this guy. And maybe, maybe he is.

[B]

But, like, he's a rookie, too. This is why sometimes, you know, I

[A]

take everything full of salt.

[B]

Terrell Bernard was like, my head was spinning as a rookie.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then the next year, he's running the defense very different. I gave him the opportunity. He didn't take credit for that.

[C]

No.

[B]

And then. But it doesn't mean this guy can't play.

[A]

I wasn't paying.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I just zoned out.

[C]

He was really.

[A]

I did nail though, that, that trail. But that Terrell Bernard would be the starting middle linebacker.

[B]

So who's going to be the starting middle linebacker this year?

[A]

It'll be trail Bernard.

[C]

So brave of you.

[B]

So now if that's not the case. Yes, Lose the other one.

[A]

I'll never. I'll. I promise you till the day I die. On my tombstone, I want it to be, here lies Dan Fates, called Drill Bernard to be Daniel.

[C]

I want better for you than that.

[B]

Yeah, let's. Let's pick it up.

[C]

All right, Comment in who you expect to have breakout seasons on the offense, on the defense, and where do you set your expectations for the rookies?

[B]

Did I see Jenna slouch a little today? I felt like I.

[C]

Well, I have a pillow that I got. Love that for you. So shout out Megan Gappa, who made it for me. So I am not slouching anymore.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Really trying, but yes. All right, that'll do it.

[B]

We're playing golf with the Bills on Friday.

[C]

On Friday?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, we don't know exactly. We say the Bills. It's Bills. Media, some coaches, some players. Players.

[C]

Staff.

[B]

Staff.

[C]

Yeah, the whole.

[B]

Jenna's gonna dominate. She's ready.

[A]

Sees Aaron. Judge stuff.

[C]

No.

[B]

How long is he out for?

[A]

They're trying to figure it out. It's been very weird. They were saying that he underwent three different forms of imaging over the last 24 hours. That you don't order an MRI, an X ray, and a CT scan. When you know what it is, you're trying to figure out what it is. So that's interesting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Another interesting. Another coin in the jar, some would say. With that being said. What do I say?

[C]

All those things. You don't even know what you say. You. You do say it a lot.

[A]

All those things I say.

[C]

Yeah. I say yes to, like, you'll be talking, and I say yes too much. So I'm trying to work all the time. Someone wrote, like, would Jenna and Mike be able to talk if they didn't use their hands? Absolutely not.

[B]

No.

[C]

No.

[A]

That'd be a funny podcast. If we, like, handcuffed ourselves behind the. We also played at Sycamore Golf Course.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which was awesome.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It's right by my house.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Shout out to Dave there for letting us on.

[C]

Yeah, it was awesome.

[A]

That was highly recommended.

[C]

All right, well, thank you so much for joining us here. Please be sure to, like, Comment, Subscribe.

[B]

And he'd have two birdies, though.

[A]

Big time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Talk about an all time choke job.

[B]

Nice. I was like, you're behind a tree. Chip it out front.

[C]

Well, first of all, you were the beginning of the round. You tried to go through the trees, like, eight times.

[B]

Well, it was twice.

[A]

It was twice.

[B]

One was bad, but the second one was even worse.

[C]

No, we were like, don't do that.

[A]

You're like, I could thread the needles.

[B]

It's kind of a crazy hole that this way back in the corner.

[A]

Yeah, I was also. We've played that place a bunch.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Really nice the way the work that they put into it. They had an RDGA event here coming up on Friday, but that I didn't know that was a par 5. Yeah, it's kind of weird when you like go through a hole and like played that course a couple times. You're like, man, it's a really tough par 4.

[C]

Like

[B]

what makes it tougher? Trying to hit it through the trees doesn't work.

[C]

Did that to yourself. All right, please be sure to like comment, subscribe and share. For Mike and Dan, I am Jenna. We'll catch you next time here on the Buffalo plus podcast.

[A]

Thanks so much for watching Roberta.

[C]

She ain't watching

[A]

Buffalo Plus.