Bills decisions on defense: Poyer, Edmonds & other free agents.

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "Bills Decisions on Defense: Poyer, Edmonds & Other Free Agents"

Podcast: Buffalo Plus: A Buffalo Bills Podcast
Hosts: Mike Catalana, Jenna Cottrell, Dan Fetes
Date: February 7, 2023
Episode Focus: In-depth discussion of key defensive free agent decisions the Buffalo Bills must make, with a special look at Jordan Poyer, Tremaine Edmonds, and several other contributors. Includes insights on cap management, roster strategy, and the team’s balance between retaining talent and getting younger.

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Episode Overview

This episode kicks off a series on the Buffalo Bills’ crucial free agent decisions, focusing first on the defense. The hosts dig into the cases of core veterans Jordan Poyer and Tremaine Edmonds, exploring their value, contract expectations, and the business realities facing the team. The group also touches on other defensive free agents—like Shaq Lawson, Jordan Phillips, and cornerback Dane Jackson—and discuss how the Bills might approach filling holes at key positions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Salary Cap and Roster Philosophy

• “The salary cap’s not real. ...you can manipulate it, you can work around it. One way is to not overspend on players of a certain age. You have to constantly get younger in this league.”
  —Mike Catalana (01:17)
• The panel reiterates their often-shared belief that the cap can be managed, but tough decisions come when players age or command premium contracts.

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2. Jordan Poyer – The End of an Era? (01:04–05:56)

• Impact & Legacy: Praised for his leadership, playing through injury, and being the “safety blanket.”
• Contract Reality:
  • Poyer is 32, played well, and "did everything right," but is expected to leave due to age and market value.
  • “They’re going to let him go. ...It’s a shame because he’s a heck of a player. ...But there’s another team out there that’s going to say ‘We’re close, we need a guy, we need the veteran presence.’” —Mike (01:17–03:57)
• Projected Market Value: 3 years, $33M ($11M/year), seen as untenable for Buffalo’s roster construction (04:40)
• Replacement Options:
  • Potential internal moves (shifting Benford to safety, evaluating Demar Hamlin’s health).
  • Drafting a safety in rounds 1–3 is discussed, but there's debate about spending high picks on defense vs. offense.
  • “If Poyer wasn’t so good, it would make this decision easier.” —Dan (05:56)

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3. Secondary Outlook Beyond Poyer (05:56–11:05)

• Dean Marlowe: Also a free agent, his future is uncertain.
• Demar Hamlin: Health and readiness are big questions.
• Christian Benford: Potential to move to safety, has prior experience there (06:48–07:38)
• Draft Philosophy: Mike argues for investing draft capital to get a young, ready-to-play safety, noting the Chiefs’ success with rookie DBs in the playoffs (09:28–10:19). Dan is skeptical, wanting offensive needs prioritized:
  • “My skin just crawls thinking they need to give Josh Allen weapons in these first few rounds.” —Dan (10:36)
• General Tone: The hosts debate balancing youth infusion on defense with maintaining enough talent to contend now.

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4. Tremaine Edmonds – Stay or Go? (13:34–23:08)

• Profile: Only 25, productive, key to defense, projected at 4 years, $44M ($11M/year).
• Host Positions:
  • Dan: Thinks Edmonds “played himself out of Buffalo” and expects he’ll get a high offer elsewhere. Cites lack of an extension as a clear indicator he’ll leave (14:27–15:08).
  • Mike: Says the Bills might want him back "at the right price," and points out he’s a rare young, experienced free agent (15:08–15:34). Suggests the Bills will let the market dictate and try to keep him if possible.
  • Jenna: Feels Edmonds wants to stay and that money “doesn’t have to be the most, but close” for a deal to get done (17:51–18:14).
• Debate on Motivation: Dan hypothesizes Edmonds might want “to be the biggest name linebacker on a team,” which Jenna and Mike dispute, believing he’s comfortable in his role (18:14–19:11).
  • “He seems very comfortable in who he is and the way he plays. ...They look at him still as that constant on the defense.” —Mike (18:56–19:11)
• Likelihood: Mike and Jenna see a real chance he stays, but Dan is adamant:
  • “Out of all these free agents...I'm the most confident that Tremaine Edmonds will not be a Buffalo Bill next year.” —Dan (22:48–22:56)

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5. Other Key Defensive Free Agents

Jordan Phillips & Shaq Lawson (24:05–28:56)

• Jordan Phillips:
  • Coming off $5M, injury-plagued season, likely too expensive for a return. Would have to accept a lower pay to come back.
• Shaq Lawson:
  • More impactful at a cheaper price ($1.2M), likely to command a raise.
  • “He gave him enough production, especially with Von [Miller] not probably ready for the beginning of the year. I think he’s coming back with more money, and I think Jordan Phillips is gone.” —Mike (25:08–26:18)
• Host consensus: They prefer keeping Lawson if money is shifted, but acknowledge both bring unique value if the price is right.

Dane Jackson (29:31–31:11)

• Restricted free agent, played ~80% of snaps, could be retained as affordable depth.
• “He’s the new Levi Wallace.” —Dan (29:43)
• Lauded as an example of late-round value (seventh round pick, solid play).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If Poyer wasn’t so good, it would make this decision easier.” —Dan (05:56)
• “The salary cap’s not real.” —Mike (01:17)
• “I'm the most confident that Tremaine Edmonds will not be a Buffalo Bill next year.” —Dan (22:48)
• “Hit on those draft picks... that'd be great.” —Mike & Dan, on the risk of shifting to rookie contributors in the secondary (10:25)
• Lighter Moment: Mike jests that Christian Benford might play everywhere in the secondary next season (31:11), and the hosts rib Dan about his infamous Terrell Bernard prediction.

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Timeline of Important Segments

• 00:15–01:04 — Introductions and Super Bowl context
• 01:04–05:56 — Jordan Poyer discussion: impact, contract status, and anticipated departure
• 05:56–11:05 — Options for replacing Poyer; depth and draft arguments for safety help
• 13:34–23:08 — Tremaine Edmonds: his value, contract debate, team fit, and host predictions
• 24:05–28:56 — Defensive line breakdown: Jordan Phillips, Shaq Lawson
• 29:31–31:11 — Dane Jackson’s restricted free agency status
• 31:22–32:15 — Closing thoughts: Offense prioritized in future episodes, meme talk, and Bills’ path forward

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Host Tone & Language

• Friendly, direct, sometimes jokey—especially in side tangents (e.g., discussion of soup and vegetables between serious points).
• Deeply knowledgeable, with four decades of combined Bills coverage.
• Don’t pull punches about hard decisions, but express genuine appreciation for departed/likely-to-depart veterans.

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Summary Takeaways

• The hosts feel strongly that Jordan Poyer has likely played his last down as a Bill, simply a victim of age and cap realities.
• Tremaine Edmonds is a true toss-up, with financial, positional, and motivational factors at play.
• They anticipate more defensive turnover, with calls for the team to get younger and reallocate money toward the offense, recognizing that replacing key veterans with cheaper, younger talent carries serious risks—particularly given the Bills’ Super Bowl window.
• Look for the Bills to make significant decisions in free agency and the draft, especially in the secondary and on the defensive line, while prioritizing weapons and blockers for Josh Allen moving forward.

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For more in-depth analysis and future discussions on the offense, subscribe to Buffalo Plus on your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[A]

It's time for the Buffalo plus podcast. Now and again. Rolls on the move, lets it fly. Oh, digs. Oh, what a catch.

[B]

All right, welcome back to the Buffalo plus podcast, presented by Connors and Ferris. As always, I am joined by Mike Catalana, Dan Fates. I am Jenna Cottrell. We know Brandon Bean's going to be a very busy man, so we wanted to start the series calling free agent decisions. And before we jump in, please be sure to like, comment as well as most importantly, subscribe to the podcast if you enjoy our content. I have my Buffalo plus hat on tonight. All right, guys, we're getting ready for the Super Bowl. Obviously going to see the top end talent on Sunday, but we know the Bills have to make big decisions coming up in terms of the roster, who they want to keep, who they want to let go. And we wanted to start with the defense. And Mike, I wanted to say there's 21 total free agents, but let's start with Jordan Poyer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Of just how impactful he has been with the team, his longevity with the team, and just also what decision you think the team will make around him because we know he's a fan favorite.

[A]

So we always say, I think it's sort of a saying on the podcast here and on Buffalo plus that the salary cap's not real. And that's because you can manipulate it, you can work around it. And one of the ways to work around it is to not overspend on players of a certain age and you have to constantly get younger in this league. That's for money reasons. That's also for on the field reasons. Jordan Poyer did everything he needed to do to help his team. He played without a new contract, played hurt, did everything right and they're going to let him go. And that's just the way it works in the NFL. And I think it is a negative for the bills in 2023, but I don't see a way around that. I don't think he's taken a one year deal. There's no way he's got another contract to get and for him it wouldn't make sense. And I don't see the Bills giving him a longer term deal. And it's a shame because he's a heck of a player. But Dan, I think he's playing somewhere else next year.

[B]

All right, before Daniel start talking, I.

[C]

Don'T know if I heard anything Mike said because Winston is now fully on top of the bookcase.

[B]

I've never seen him up there.

[C]

Now he's Eating cobwebs. And I have no idea how he's going to get down without breaking everything.

[B]

Mike actually made a ton of good comments. Yeah, Yeah.

[C]

I think the gist of it, the only thing I heard was that Mike saying the salary cap isn't real. Which is, which is accurate. But this is. Jordan Poyer is. I think we're all in consensus and agreeing like this is just where it's the business. Like this is the business side of running a team. And, and again, if Jordan, dude, your cat is.

[B]

It's a mountain lion.

[C]

Yet I don't know what he's doing. But if, if Jordan Poyer was three years younger, I think they get a deal done. It really just comes down to that. So again, and I don't know where, I don't even know what they would possibly do like to, to try if he comes back in Buffalo. Mike, like what would the deal have to be? Would it have to be a one or two year deal? Because the Bills may want that. But why would Jordan Poyer sign that? There it is.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And Winston is gone.

[A]

But I would tell you this. I think part of it has to do with Micah Hyde coming back next year and you have an older player, you still have that veteran presence in the, in the secondary and you would move on and get younger next to him. What would it be? You know what it would be if Poyer wasn't so good? I think they'd be able to keep him, if that makes sense.

[C]

Agreed.

[A]

There's another team, whether that's the New York Giants, the Miami Dolphins. Oh, I wouldn't say the New England Patriots, so I won't even say that. But there's another team out there that's going to say we're close, we need a guy. Right. And we're going to pay him a little more because we need the veteran presence. We need all those things that he's brought to the team. So Dan, I just, I don't see a way and I don't see this team in the current state they're in with needing help on offense, big decisions to make on this defensive side that can make that kind of deal for Poyer that he deserves in this league. Absolutely deserves that new contract. He's just not going to get it from the Bills.

[B]

Yeah, Spot Track has his market value as a projected three year deal, $33 million. So essentially a projected average salary of $11 million, which you look at his production and how effective and impactful he was on this bill's defense and just the the safety blanket that he was, it's like the, this is where I feel like for fans it's really hard because your heart wants Poyer to be in Buffalo because he's what he's meant, especially since Shawn McDermott got here and Brandon Bean. But when you look at the bottom line and the decisions that have to be made, it's like you just, you don't know how you can factor in having a 32 year old guy next to his teammate who's also getting older. And that's one of the things where I agree, Mike, it's just tough because of what he's meant to the team. But Dan, I mean, what do they do in terms of like going forward? Looking at it, Dean Marlowe is also a free agent. You have Demar Hamlin. You're not sure of his status. Like, do you move Christian Benford into the safety position? Like, what are, what are the Bill's options right now and how do you think they go about it? Because, I mean, we're, we're talking about how it's like kind of, yeah, you got to move on from Poyer and it's like, okay, well what do they, what do they do? Because, you know, a guy of his caliber then would be out of the lineup.

[C]

Yeah. And again, going back to Mike's point where he said if Poyer wasn't so good, it would make this decision easier if the Bills weren't in this window to contend for a championship. I think you could make a project out of Christian Benford or maybe a Taron Johnson or turning somebody into that. I think they're too good. I think they are too good with a team that, that is close. How close? I, that's up to debate. But, but I still think that it's so funny. I look at that deal where you talked about three years, 33 million. Jenna. I think they go and give a safety around something like that because of how valuable they are to the defense in this Leslie Frazier, Shawn McDermott scheme. It's just not going to be on a 32 year old. Like, I think they're okay. Like to Mike's point, I think they're okay with spending money on, on a valuable, important position on this defense. It's just not with a guy that's that age.

[A]

Yeah, but I think they're, you know, when you say that like, like moving Benford there would be considered partly a project, but we've also seen he's a guy that can play in the NFL.

[C]

And he did play that position. I think we need to address that too. He did also play some safety at.

[A]

Nova and I think when they drafted him at least, certainly Sean McDermott gave that impression that that was in their mind. But at the same time they're going to, they're going to be looking in the draft and I think that's a position where they could be finding a guy that steps right in and plays next to Micah Hyde. That could also be the case. I would have no problem with them drafting a guy in the first two or three rounds that that is a safety and can play in that position. Because of what you're saying about the value. Are you shaking your head? No, you wouldn't do that?

[B]

Interesting.

[C]

Well, you, Jenna.

[B]

Well, here's where things get even more interesting. We're gonna save this for later, but in terms of the secondary and what they do, Dane Jackson is going to be a restricted free agent coming up. Obviously he's a lot younger. I didn't realize this, but according to spot track, he played about 80% of the snaps this year, which I was, I just, I don't know. I, I just feel like with the snap count differences he missed the exact, some injury time, stuff like that. But coming off a two year, $1.7 million deal, obviously he's a lot cheaper in terms of things, but oh yeah, what they will do in terms of that secondary and how they move forward with Kyrie Elam in terms of just playing time and things of that nature.

[A]

I want, I want to go back. So why would you not invest in a safety early in the draft?

[B]

I think especially considering where Micah Hyde is at in his career, I think.

[C]

You invest capital into bringing in a safety that has ready to go and isn't learning this position or learning it at the NFL level while this team is trying to get over the hump and win a Super Bowl. I, I, and again, I haven't looked at all the options but like I don't want to see another band aid over the safety position. And that is not a knock at Demar Hamlin, that is not a knock at Jaquan Johnson. It just, there was a steep drop off obviously from an all pro to those guys, but I think that I don't want the drop to be so much from two all pro safeties to a second round rookie and maybe Mike. This is also part of the fact that right now I'm skeptical on everything being drafts. So like that could be part of it where you're sitting there saying he's going to find a guy that comes into the draft and I'm sitting there going, really?

[A]

That.

[C]

That would be interesting to me.

[A]

All I'm going to tell you is in the AFC Championship game, due to a couple injuries, the Chiefs had four rookies in the secondary play.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they're getting production out of those guys.

[C]

And you got a guy production out of all their rookies, but you got.

[A]

A guy when you have Micah Hyde back there. Hopefully for them, the Bills, that Trey White is back, you know, back being Trey White and they've got talent on that defense that you could bring a guy in. I. I'm just saying that at some point you're going to invest highly in it. They did it with a corner this year in Elam, but I would. Now, maybe your point is I don't think they're going to go spend big in free agency on a safety. I would put that money into the offense that way. You need guys on rookie contracts. That's where somewhere the value. Those early rounds, I would find a guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And again, they may really believe Benford can do this.

[B]

Yeah. That's the issue, though.

[C]

That'd be great.

[B]

We all talk about. Yeah, but it's like you have to hit on those draft picks well.

[C]

And it'd be great. And Mike, you're right. And again, as we started talking conversation, I kind of forgot that Benford had. Had played.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Safety at Villanova. Again, FCS school. But nonetheless. And I guess it goes back to the point of when you said spending, you know, top draft capital, first, second, third round on. On a position. I guess my skin just crawls thinking they need to give Josh Allen weapons in these first few rounds and they need to figure out some possible way to bring down the quarterback or put some kind of pressure. So to me, that wouldn't be one of my top places.

[A]

They're not spending any more high picks on defensive linemen.

[B]

Who was it had that projected? I can't remember.

[C]

Kuiper. But that's more. That's just.

[A]

Yeah, but that's projecting. I know what Dan's saying. That's projecting where that player belongs. Yeah, but I mean, come on, you took a guy. One, you took another guy. Two, you took another guy.

[B]

You took two, and then one, and then two last.

[A]

And then before you took Ed.

[C]

Yeah. And like I said, I was like team wide receiver. Now I'm just any player on offense. I don't care where it is. It just needs to be somebody for Josh.

[B]

Tight end.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I don't care. Right guard. I don't care.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That's a good draft. I'm with you on helping Josh Allen change that offensive line. Get another. Get a weapon, an absolute weapon for the offense, and we'll see how they can maneuver that. And. But somewhere it's going to be somebody else in that secondary because you're going to have issues in that secondary. Micah Hyde's getting older. We don't know how Trey White's going to come back. They're going to be drafting somebody pretty high, I think, in the first three rounds.

[B]

Yeah, I agree.

[A]

Can we bet a coffee on that?

[C]

Yeah. Can I go double down? Okay.

[A]

Wait.

[B]

I am still owed a coffee.

[C]

No, I'm older to coffee. I get it. Yep. Yep.

[B]

You just. Salty. Because I was right.

[C]

I think Ken Dorsey should.

[B]

Dan and I got into a fight today about mirepoix. Do you know what that is, Mike?

[A]

No.

[B]

It's. It's. It's considered like the holy trinity of vegetables. So it's the base of a lot of food. It's carrots, onions, and celery. That's like you saute.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Dan thought it was what is.

[C]

Mise en place, but that's a different thing. Anyway, this is why we come to Buffalo plus Chop Chop. Literally chop chop.

[A]

By the way, cooked carrots are the worst sauteed anything. Just don't do that to carrots. They're only good raw. You start cooking them, they're awful.

[B]

Exactly how I feel.

[A]

Awful.

[B]

Okay, wait, hold on. Timeout. Dan made soup. Him and his wife made soup. He called it chicken noodle, but there was no noodle or rice in it.

[C]

I was like, the noodle out.

[A]

Oh, how is that?

[B]

It's just chicken.

[C]

It was good soup.

[B]

It was good soup, but it could have been better.

[A]

Move on, man. Man, it's weak.

[B]

Thanks for staying with us, folks. All right, let's talk. Do we want to go Tremaine? Do we want to go Jordan Phillips?

[A]

Oh, let's go Tremaine. Let's go Tremaine. He's the. He's the. This one is going to be fascinating.

[B]

25 years old. It's crazy. It's going to be 25 years old this season. Projected value, 4 years, $44 million. Once again, average salary equals out to about $11 million plus. Played 70 of the snaps this past season. Coming off, obviously, he was one of the Bills first round draft picks with Josh Allen in 2018. All right, polarizing player, obviously. Dan, I know you have a lot of opinions on him, but what do you think they do? Because They've made Tremaine into one of the guys on this team. In terms of even media people, they're like, all right, Josh is going to be the QB of the offense. Obviously, we want Tremaine to be the QB of the defense. We want him to be out there. We want his presence. They would have him talk to us a lot of times. What do you think?

[C]

I think he played himself out of Buffalo. I think if I think that his season, it was definitely his best year. Again, still young, just 25 years old. I just think he gets a big fat paycheck from somewhere else. I don't know where that is, but I think there's some team that will value him more than where the Bills will value him come this free agency. Because I think, as I've said before, it speaks volumes of the Bills haven't gotten a deal done. I would be stunned if Tremaine Edmonds is back out of all these free agents we talk about. I think the biggest message was sent by not getting a deal done and getting an extension before they hit free agency.

[A]

Mike, that's really interesting. I think it's a different approach, obviously, to Poyer. I think they know, to Dan's point, you can't even come up with a deal that makes sense for Poyer because he's going to get it. That doesn't make sense for the Bills. I think this is where the Bills count on that tampering window. They want. They kind of want to know what's out there. I think they would want him back at the right price.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

If you're him, you got to look. I mean, you're a free agent at 25 with five years experience in the NFL. Like, you got to be out there looking. Unless the Bills blew you away. And I don't think they're going to do that. I was listening to this podcast back in the preseason, and this guy was adamant about it, that he said Terrell Bernard is going to be the starter for the Bills at linebacker. This guy loves great pod. And he came out with that boom. He hit it big and said he's going to be there. He's going to be starting next to Matt Milano. I believe that is what one Mr. Daniel J. Fate said. Am I correct?

[C]

I did. I did, though. That was. That was. Again, we. It's easy to pick at some of these ones. I was also dead right on Gabe Davis. I was dead right. You're just clutching.

[B]

You are clinging on to the game.

[C]

Davis clinging on to Ken Dorsey.

[A]

Hold on, hold on. I'm not telling you you're wrong.

[C]

That's a hot take. That was a scalding take. There are hot takes and then there are scolding.

[A]

Scalding, you mean because he didn't really play on the defense.

[C]

Well, he couldn't play because Terrellbert. Because J. Edmonds was out there at every play besides a few games.

[A]

Just kidding.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In a few games he wasn't really playing. Nope.

[C]

He was calling the signals in training camp and it made me very concerned that they thought he could be a middle linebacker. He could come back in. In the best shape of his life this off season. Terrell Bernard, best shape of his life here. And we could be looking at a middle linebacker.

[A]

I don't know, honestly, with his size, Jenna. And I'm not making. I'm not trying to be funny to say this. With his size, I could almost see him playing safety.

[B]

I could too, but I have better chance out there on the field. He looked like a safety if you just saw him with the other player.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Especially compared to Tremaine because, I mean, he's just so athletic and his size, his wingspan, all those things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, I mean, I think you guys, the thing about Tremaine is I feel like this year he really did play well. And when you look at where he's at, what he could be, I think. I think you guys hit the nail on the head in terms of like, he needs to look because there's probably going to be another team that will pay him a lot of money.

[A]

I think they're gonna sign him.

[B]

I Coffee, hear me out. I will say, though, I think Tremaine wants to be in Buffalo.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think, I mean, the money is going to be maybe not what, the highest top end money, but at the same point, I think for some of these guys, I do think that some of that plays in where they want to play more so than the money. The money is going to be a lot of money. Regardless.

[C]

Talk about, how about this for you. Tremaine wants to play elsewhere because he wants to be the biggest name linebacker on that team. He is not the biggest name linebacker.

[B]

I don't see that.

[A]

I don't think.

[B]

I don't think he cares about that. Okay.

[C]

And yeah, he was a number one pick, first round pick. Like, you don't think that any of that ego.

[B]

I think not everyone has a huge ego, Dan. I hear you like these players.

[C]

Got to think they're the best of NFL players do.

[B]

Okay, here's what I'm saying. Yes, they have to think they're the best, all these things, but that just because they want to be the best doesn't mean they look at. They want to be the biggest name. Does that make sense?

[A]

He seems very comfortable in who he is and the way he plays.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

But he's a good guy, like that.

[A]

Really good NFL player. I think they really like him. They like a lot of what he does. And I think they look at him still as that constant on the defense.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I don't know. I.

[B]

And I think he plays well with Milano.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I think anybody would play well with Milano.

[A]

Yeah. Of course.

[C]

Edmonds, what's your brain look like with you eye rolled the back of your head?

[B]

I mean, just you saying anyone would look good with Milano. Okay. Yeah.

[C]

That's the best linebacker on the team.

[B]

I'm not, I'm not saying that he's not. I just also believe that when you look at what the potential is of Tremaine Edmonds off of this season, him being so young, all these things, like we joke, but at the same point, like, he could be a cornerstone of your defense moving forward, and he's a guy who seems to want to stay in Buffalo. And I don't think him not being the biggest name on, in terms of the linebacking core is a big deal to him.

[A]

Yeah. Now, Dan made a very good point. I mean, this deal's not done. They haven't done it, you know, and you don't know where they are. I mean, honestly with Bean, he's pretty tight lipped. You know, there are certain things that get out, you know, running backs and all that, but you don't really know where he is. And they may be trying to. Again, they have to have provisions. They got to be saying, like, if he wants to come back at this number, we can do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, we're going to be at the combine. You know, he's talking to the agent. Right. And other times they're talking. They. He's still under contract with the Bill, so they can talk. So I, I think there's a lot going on there. I think if, you know, Poyer's gone, they're gonna. I think they're gonna do what they can within reason to keep Edmonds. I think that's what they're gonna do.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

And I didn't think that middle of the year. I think it now.

[B]

I agree. I think going, going into this, going into the season, I was like, there's no way. Because I feel like they did really like run out the clock on making a decision. But I feel like after the way this year went and what he could add and all those pieces of him being so young, I just feel like there is a lot of value in him being in Buffalo. If he wants to take a deal that I think will be a little bit less than some other teams, I don't.

[C]

Why would he take a deal that's less?

[B]

I think he really wants to be in Buffalo.

[A]

It depends on what less is. Less. You know, sometimes it's not the most, but it's close. And also you have to say to yourself, there are not that many teams around the league that will pay huge money for a linebacker. So it's a position where it's not, you know, he, he's not the pass rushing linebacker. Even though he gets lumped in with those guys, those guys really get paid. You know, he's, he's more of the side to side middle linebacker. Not every team. Now Baltimore paid their Or.

[C]

Roquan Smith.

[A]

Roquan Smith. But not everybody does that, you know, not everybody pays that guy. So we'll see, we'll see who the team is out there ready to jump and make that move.

[B]

Comment if you think Tremaine Edmonds is going to stay.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Or he's going to be signed by another team.

[C]

And again, if I'm, if I'm Tremaine, I would be a little bit annoyed to, to some respects that a deal hasn't gotten done. And if that's the case, I say, okay, then I'm definitely going to test for agency. Like, I definitely want to see what, what other teams would be interested.

[A]

You're right. You might be the case. It also might be that there's been constant communication and they're just saying, let's see where we are and then you never know. And by the way, you can't be Tremaine because you're way older than him.

[C]

It's true. Jenna's even older than Tremaine than I am.

[B]

I'm older than Dan by months.

[C]

And Catalina doubles them.

[A]

Oh, I more than double. Yeah, I doubled him a while ago.

[C]

Out of all these ones that we'll do, I'm the most confident that Tremaine Edmonds will not be a Buffalo Bill next year.

[B]

See, that makes me feel like he.

[A]

Will be right there. Save that. He's. He so badly wants to be right about the Bernard.

[B]

He's doubling down.

[C]

If I am right about Bernard, you guys will never hear the end of it. Never hear the end of it. That Was a Steph Curry from the stands at the end of warm up shot.

[A]

Okay, so let me ask you this. If Bernard's the starting linebacker and Gabe Davis is an all pro wide receiver, what do you do?

[C]

Yeah, no, I can still be right. Because that, that last year Gabe wasn't what everybody expected him to be.

[A]

Janet, he can find the Dan.

[C]

If Terrell Bernard starts. If Terrell Bernard starts midline next year, we're.

[A]

We're renaming this Dan Fates.

[C]

Dan fades. Plus that's what we're gonna rename this.

[B]

Absolutely not. I now hope he gets traded.

[C]

Oh, it's so good.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I was really hoping that one was just gonna get swept under the road.

[A]

Oh, I remembered that one. Was it St. John Fisher? You were scalding hot that day. You're like, I gotta take for you. I gotta take. It's a hot one.

[C]

It was hot. It is scalding.

[B]

Oh, never changed, Dan. Okay. All right, let's talk defensive line. Jordan Phillips, he will be 31 years old. He played 33 of the snaps this year. He was coming off a one year contract for 5 million. He does have a cap hit this year of 1.25 million. In 2023. He is coming off a torn rotator cuff and will have surgery this offseason. In 11 games played, one and a half sacks, 20 tackles.

[A]

Yeah, I was big on Jordan Phillips coming back. I like what he brings to the team, but at $5 million for this year, based on where they are, that was not a good contract for them and what they got. He was banged up. There were issues. He played well in spots as he always does. I think if he comes back, it's at a much smaller number. That's just my guess because the other guy we're going to talk about if we put piece them together is Shaq Lawson. And for the money Shaq got, he was very impactful.

[B]

I thought, yeah, listen to this. Shaq going to be 29 years old. He played in 43% of the snaps, 15 games played, 31 total tackles, three and a half sacks, one year contract he's coming off of for $1.2 million. Yeah, yeah, definitely.

[A]

This is where again, when we talk about the overall roster, Dan, where it's like, you can't have too many guys in that five when their production is two the millions. And when you get that guy at 1.2, if you want to keep him, you're going to have to. He's. Shaq's a pass rusher and he showed the ability to do that and somebody will pay for that. Certainly more than the 1.2. So that's. Where does that money come from? And they've spent a lot of money and a lot of resources on this D line. That's. That's part of the overall picture of what Bean thinks for this year. If I'm guessing Shaq didn't want to leave before I. And I don't know what they do, but he gave him enough production, especially with Vaughn being not probably ready for the beginning of the year. I think he's coming back with more money, and I think Jordan Phillips is gone.

[B]

I could definitely see that. Just based off of the numbers from this year.

[C]

I think if you shuffle that money around, you'd be pretty happy. I think if you would have said if Shaq would have gotten paid this year 5 million, you would have said that that match. That the production matched the salary.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And if you would have gotten Jordan Phillips for a million, you would have said that's fine. Because I really do think that when Jordan Phillips was healthy, he was a. Was a difference maker on the defensive line. I mean, his size, his physicality, he just was banged up and. Yeah, I don't know what. Where they go back and forth because again, Phillips was another guy that wanted to come back. He wanted to be, you know, was released from Arizona and instantly wanted to come back. Loves Bean, also loves Leslie Frazier. Said their relationship was meant a lot to him. So, again, if you can get Jordan Phillips at cheaper than that, I'd be interested because that's a defensive line that does not have a lot of size. You look at the other defensive tackle is Ed Oliver, who is at Oliver. So I think he brought a level to that. So if you could shuffle the money around, I'd be okay with both of them come back.

[A]

Jenna. I just wanted to add, maybe the Bills could get the jets to give that money back to Shaq. Right. Didn't Shaq say the jets owed him money?

[C]

Yeah. Owed him 9 million.

[A]

Yeah. So we lost Jenna. Jenna there for a second. Man, I must have offended her. She took off. Now, let's say bad stuff about Jenna.

[C]

We thought my cat was the worst thing here.

[A]

Let's see. She's back.

[B]

I don't know what happened.

[A]

I don't know. It's a little WI Fi issue there briefly. Yeah, I said the jets owe Shaq money. Maybe the Bills can get the jets to pay some of that money back to him. He was yelling on the sidelines. What did he say to you, Dan? Was it you down there, right?

[C]

Yeah, they took my nine million.

[A]

Nine million. Nine million.

[C]

I'd be yawn a lot more than that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I will say Shaq did talk about how he feels like. Like he was on other teams where he said that they felt like they told him essentially to be seen and not heard. And in Buffalo, they've allowed him to kind of have his personality and to be loud.

[A]

They need a little of that on the D. I think that's fine. On defense.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree.

[A]

I want. I'd like to see Shaq. I like. I like Jordan Phillips too, but I just think depends on what they do with the rest of that D line. In terms of not even just free agents, you know, who comes back and at what amount of money, because there's decisions to make.

[B]

Brandon Bean has so much to do.

[A]

And some of his is of his own doing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, it's just the way the NFL works, man. If you're a gm, you try to get as much right as you can and he did that for a while and then things start going the other way and then you got to fix it.

[B]

But.

[A]

But I mean, he certainly is a guy I have confidence in that he can fix this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he can make right moves. Just lately, you know, he hasn't been rewarded by some of those and sometimes they come a little bit later. But he's going to have to make some pretty substantial moves this offseason.

[B]

Yeah. Do we want to talk about Dane Jackson? I know we touched on him earlier, but just what the Bills do in terms of.

[A]

Well, he's a restricted free agent. He said three years in the league.

[C]

He's the new Levi Wallace.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, but Levi would. Yeah, he would end up. I don't know if another. I mean, he's got a lot of time this year. He played a lot of time on the field. I think they might tender him. I don't know what they would. In terms of what they would get back because that would work. A team can make an offer to him, but man, teams are always looking for guys in the secondary. And I think the Bills might very well try to keep him around, maybe sign him to a one year deal for. I don't know exactly what he would get. I think he's a guy they still like.

[C]

I agree.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it's. You know, again, this is. How much do you like them? The ones you love, you keep around.

[C]

But Mike, we were saying that Dane Jackson may be Bean's best pick in the last four drafts.

[A]

Well, based on the where. Where they got him, you know, you're getting in the seventh round, you know? Yes. Like, we'll. Later we'll talk about Ed Oliver, but we're not talking about Ed Oliver just as a player. You're talking about him where you drafted him, how much money he's making. I mean, all those things come into play in this league. But for value in the seventh round, heck of a pick, right? Because he started in the NFL's corner. That's great. And Benford may be that guy that replaces him, basically, unless he moves to safety. So we got big plans for Christian Benford, moving him around the secondary, so.

[B]

Interesting. Any other scalding hot takes, Dan or.

[C]

No, I'm good.

[B]

Done for the night. Okay. Wasn't sure. All right. Anything else from you, Mike, before my Internet.

[C]

Why y' all come here?

[A]

The scalding hot takes. No, I agree with you. And I think Beans got the moves to make. I'm with Dan. I want to see them spend the money and the resources on offense and make the hard decisions on defense. And some of it. They're going to kick that can down the road a little bit. They'll make some other moves, but this is what you get paid the big bucks for. Fix that team. Get Josh some help on the offensive side. And next week we're going to talk about some of the offensive moves they're going to make. So, yeah, we've also been doing things easier for Brandon. If you're watching. We gave you some ideas.

[C]

I've also been deep in the lab making up some new memes and images that the salary cap isn't real. So keep an eye. Keep an eye out for those because I've been using the same recycled ones. I need to get new ones. The sad. The sad kid holding the sign that said the sire cap is real needed some new ones.

[B]

Okay. We have not seen those yet. All right. Yeah, cool.

[A]

In the lab.

[B]

In the lab. Sorry. Okay. It's funny. All right. Please be sure to, like, comment and most importantly, subscribe. If you enjoyed our podcast for Mike and Dan, I am Jenna. We'll catch you next time here on.

[D]

Buffalo Plus, Shopify's point of sale system helps you sell at every stage of your business. Need a fast and secure way to take payments in person? We've got you covered. How about card readers you can rely on anywhere you sell?

[A]

Thanks.

[D]

Have a good one. Yep, that too. One want one place to manage all your online and in person sales? That's kind of our thing. Wherever you sell businesses that Grow Grow with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 a month trial at shopify.com listen shopify.com listen.