BILLS interview Philip Rivers (Dadgummit) and Mike McDaniel for HEAD COACHING job

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Buffalo Plus - "BILLS interview Philip Rivers (Dadgummit) and Mike McDaniel for HEAD COACHING job"

Date: January 23, 2026
Hosts: Jenna Cottrell, Dan Fates
Focus: In-depth discussion of the Buffalo Bills’ head coaching search, notably the interviews with Mike McDaniel and Philip Rivers, and broader analysis of coaching philosophy, tactics, and risk in a pivotal offseason for the franchise.

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Overview of the Episode

This episode centers on the Buffalo Bills’ wide-reaching and unconventional search for a new head coach following the departure of Sean McDermott. Jenna Cottrell and Dan Fates analyze the credentials, optics, and potential impact of the team's head coaching candidates, especially Mike McDaniel (Miami Dolphins, Chargers OC) and retired quarterback Philip Rivers. The hosts weigh the risks of hiring an inexperienced coach versus someone with proven, if mixed, head coaching experience, and reflect on the organizational urgency to win with Josh Allen entering his 30s.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bills' Head Coaching Search Strategy

• Open criteria and wide net: As stated by GM Brandon Beane, the search is broad; the Bills are considering both “old, young, former coach [and] first time coach.”
  • “We got to make sure we get the leadership, the CEO part.” (Brandon Beane, 00:59)
• Desire for leadership, not just Xs and Os: The head coaching job is viewed as a CEO-level responsibility requiring conflict management and organization, not just playcalling brilliance.

2. Mike McDaniel: The Offensive Mind

• Experience and Playoff Resume:
  • McDaniel has head coaching experience and made the playoffs with Miami (01:10).
  • Noted for offensive creativity, but questions remain about overall culture-building and lack of playoff wins.
  • His candidacy is “stunning” due to his reputation and the club’s previous culture under McDermott.
• Pairing with Josh Allen:
  • Multiple teams are reportedly interested in McDaniel for offensive synergy with top quarterbacks.
  • “Teams can be infatuated with his play calling… Pairing him up with Josh Allen has to be intriguing.” (Dan Fates, 02:33)
• Timeline Pressure:
  • McDaniel is currently Chargers OC, which creates urgency; Buffalo must decide quickly, or risk losing him to LA.
  • “If Mike McDaniel is getting this job from the Bills, I’m saying is at the latest on Sunday.” (Dan Fates, 06:06)

3. Philip Rivers: The Unexpected Candidate

• Zero NFL/College coaching experience:
  • Rivers’ only experience is high school coaching, albeit reportedly very successful (13-1 record).
  • Highly respected as a player, but immense leap to NFL head coach.
• Concerns:
  • Lack of high-level coaching experience and playcalling at the NFL level is worrisome.
  • “To give him the keys to the whole thing. Never being a coach before… outside of high school would be kind of wild.” (Dan Fates, 13:00)
• Locker room leadership vs. practical coaching:
  • Seen as a positive locker room presence, but is that enough for the CEO aspect of head coach?

4. Risk, Culture, and Urgency

• Allen’s prime window:
  • With Josh Allen approaching 30, the hosts express urgency for the Bills to maximize their championship window immediately.
  • “This is not like it’s 25 year-old Josh… the runway is shorter because of Josh and his age, his playing style, all those things.” (Jenna Cottrell, 19:53)
• Changing cultures and potential disruption:
  • New philosophy means roster turnover, potential for disruption—positive or negative.
  • “A new philosophy means you’re getting new players… the roster is going to be even more at flux than it already has been.” (Jenna Cottrell, 09:42)
• Head coaching experience valued:
  • “I would love to see a head coach that has already been a head coach. There’s such a learning curve.” (Jenna Cottrell, 10:53)

5. Brian Dable and Other Candidates

• Dable’s strengths:
  • Familiarity and rapport with Allen, history of coaching him “hard,” and lessons learned from setbacks with the Giants.
  • “Brian Dable coached Josh Allen hard… the advantage is he hits the ground running with Josh Allen.” (Dan Fates, 10:53)
• Clint Kubiak, Davis Webb, Anthony Lynn, Anthony Weaver, Lou Anarumo, Grant Udinski:
  • Mix of external and internal possibilities, each with unique upside/risk.
  • Kubiak has OC experience, Davis Webb seen as a potential “McVay-type” mind but lacking playcalling chops.
  • Lynn and Weaver may be considered for other roles.

6. The Role of Josh Allen

• Allen involved in process:
  • The Bills are including Allen in interviews and meetings—a necessity to keep him “on board” and motivated.
  • “Josh needs to be on board. This is a decision…because of him.” (Jenna Cottrell, 15:30)
• Quarterback as Stakeholder:
  • National perspective might question this, but in Buffalo Allen is “the franchise.”

7. Organizational Pressure & Expectations

• Super Bowl or Bust Mentality:
  • Despite lip service to being patient, pressure is immense to “get over the top”—incremental progress is no longer enough.
  • “To make the move you made, it’s because you don’t think you can get over the top.” (Jenna Cottrell, 21:42)
• Succession of accountability:
  • With McDermott gone, focus (and blame) shifts to the next coach, and, eventually, Brandon Beane and Josh Allen.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [00:59] Brandon Beane:
  “We got to be careful not to just—this is a bigger job than just a play caller… It’s a CEO job. It really is.”

• [02:33] Dan Fates:
  “Teams can be infatuated with his play calling… Pairing him up with Josh Allen has to be intriguing.”

• [07:23] Jenna Cottrell (on Rivers):
  “Cool story, obviously someone that I think a lot of fans like him, but I don’t think they like the idea of him coaching the Buffalo Bills.”

• [09:42] Jenna Cottrell (on coach turnover):
  “A new philosophy means you’re getting new players into the building… you’re banking on it being a positive when it could mean it’s going to take a couple years.”

• [10:53] Jenna Cottrell:
  “I would love to see a head coach that has already been a head coach. There’s such a learning curve to being a head coach in the NFL…”

• [13:00] Dan Fates:
  “To give [Rivers] the keys to the whole thing. Never being a coach before… outside of high school would be kind of wild.”

• [15:30] Jenna Cottrell:
  “Josh needs to be on board. This is a decision that is because of him.”

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• 00:59 – Brandon Beane explains the open and CEO-focused coaching search
• 02:13-04:00 – Debate over Mike McDaniel’s strengths, concerns, optics, and playoff record
• 05:41-06:15 – Timeline urgency with McDaniel’s candidacy vis-à-vis Chargers
• 07:06-09:34 – Examination of Philip Rivers' head coaching fit; parallels to other former QBs
• 10:53-13:00 – Why head coaching experience matters: discussion around Brian Dable
• 15:00-16:10 – Josh Allen’s involvement in the interviewing process
• 21:22-22:49 – The mounting pressure for a Super Bowl run after the coaching change
• 24:03-25:16 – Accountability moving from coach to GM, then QB
• 28:05-28:41 – The “wowing” phenomenon in NFL interviews, referencing Andy Reid’s hiring

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Additional Insights & Lighter Moments

• Candidates for non-head coach roles: Lynn and Weaver’s profiles, possibility as coordinators rather than HC.
• Discussion about risks of promoting young, “potentially great” assistants early (e.g., Davis Webb/Shaun McVay): both see merit but accept high risk.
• Fun banter about outsiders underestimating hosts’ football knowledge (32:43 - 35:39):
  • “I said, ‘I cover the NFL.’ Mic drop moment.” (Dan Fates, 35:11)
• Plans for a “life advice” segment on the podcast (36:01-37:49)—illustrates the team’s dynamic and personalities.

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The Big Takeaway

The Bills are facing a pivotal offseason defined by a bold, uncertain coaching search, shaped as much by the need for offensive ingenuity as organizational leadership and cultural stability. With Allen’s prime years ticking away, the team cannot afford a misstep—and the hosts underscore the stakes in each possible head-coaching hire.

In the words of Dan Fates:
“You gotta thread this needle: finding somebody who you’re not gonna take a step back and then you also believe can take you a step farther.” (12:18)

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For ongoing analysis as the search narrows, subscribe and catch future episodes on Buffalo Plus.

Transcript

[Jenna Cotrell]

Say the one thing about McDaniel is at least he's been a head coach before.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. And made the playoffs.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Made the playoffs. I think that is a benefit in terms of experience. Like Philip Rivers has not coached at the collegiate level, let alone the NFL level.

[Dan Fates]

Hell of a high school team though.

[Jenna Cotrell]

They went 13 and 1. I think they did. All right. Welcome Back to the Buffalo plus YouTube channel. Mike Catalana, Dan Fates With a veteran day off, I am Jenna Cotrell. Please be sure to like comment subscribe to the podcast we're here in the Connors and Fairs podcast studio breaking down the Bill's head coaching candidates. Now we're recording this on Friday. We're going to get into the guys, their qualifications, our thoughts on that. But before we do, Brandon Bean. This is what Bean had to say on Wednesday at his press conference about the Bills head coaching search and the expectations around it.

[Brandon Beane]

It's an open process. There is no front runner, old, young, former coach, first time coach. We're opening every door. We got to find the right guy for this team to help get us over the hump. We got to be careful not to just this is a bigger job than just a play caller and a schemer. I think we've seen where guys have been excellent play, but they, they got to the head coach seat and they couldn't handle the adversity, the conflict management, all the things that it's a CEO job. It really is. A lot of your time as a head coach or GM get taken away from me, scouting, watching players or a coach in their scheming X's and O's. So we got to make sure we get the leadership, the CEO part.

[Jenna Cotrell]

So yeah, they're going wide net. Some of the names mentioned today, Philip Rivers, Mike McDaniel. We know that the Bills have already interviewed Brian Dable. Anthony Lynn has been added, Anthony Weaver. Like first, let's start big picture. What do you make of what they're deciding to do in this way?

[Dan Fates]

Well, they definitely are casting a wide net. Yeah. Mike McDaniel, stunning to me. Not that he isn't a known offensive coach, has some skills that are certainly there. But you are going from a buttoned up, culture driven head coach to, let's be honest, Mike McDaniel maybe is a brilliant play caller. They never had a great culture there the whole time he was there. Some of that could just be Miami. Some of it could be the players they brought in. They never performed in the playoffs. They never won a playoff game. But teams can be infatuated with his Play calling. And I think he's in that tree. And I think the idea of pairing him up with Josh Allen has to be intriguing to a lot of teams. I mean, he's interviewed basically with everybody. The Chargers want him for Herbert. The Eagles talk to him about working with Jalen Hurts. He's been in the mix for these other teams. I would have been kind of fascinating to see him in Baltimore with Lamar. Yeah, very different, but that didn't happen. The idea of, you know, the guy who wears the. I say wrong Capris.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Is it Capri?

[Dan Fates]

Capri who says, I wish it was colder coming and being on that sidelines for the Bills instead of against them is kind of wild. I see the offensive part. I'm not sure about the whole big Picture with Mike McDaniel.

[Jenna Cotrell]

That's one of the things that's been kind of wild these last couple days is just the optics of things. Like for so long, it felt like everything was so buttoned up in Orchard park after the press conference on Wednesday, where things kind of to be nice got away from the bills in a PR sense. And then to have today Mike McDaniel eight coach a head coach that Sean McDermott has beaten so consistently throughout his career. And you're right, Mike McDaniel, his credentials in terms of the offense, what he could do, that is absolutely something that could be a massive benefit to the Bills and to Josh Allen. But the optics of it, a guy that was kind of mocked for being corny and I wish it was colder and all that stuff to then bring him in for a head coaching interview. Now, I do think it's important to note sometimes for these interviews, it is, you know, learning and gaining intel about what coaches philosophies are, how you could best utilize Josh Allen, all of all the things that go into that in the offensive scheme. But it's pretty surprising to me in just the last couple of weeks, when you zoom out kind of, it kind of looks a little bit like a circus. And I'm not saying that it is, and I'm saying the Bills are, like you said, they're trying to be judicious in the way they're going about this. But Mike McDaniel and just the narrative around him and the culture and all those things, to me, it's definitely, definitely a way to make a headline in terms of bringing in a head coaching search. But I know the Bills obviously weren't done there either.

[Dan Fates]

No. But a few things about McDaniel. So he already has the Chargers OC job.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Correct.

[Dan Fates]

And they're allowing him to continue his search for a head coaching job. But if I'm the Chargers, I'm only allowing that for so long. Right. I. I can't sit there and wait a week. Two weeks, three weeks. So the Bills interview McDaniel on Friday, I think it's right. Or right it's Friday is when the interview was.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

I'd say they have to make a decision on Mike McDaniel within a short period of time. Doesn't mean they have to hire somebody else.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

But I would think he's got to say to them, listen, I need to know if you're interested in me because the Chargers are only going to wait so long.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah. If I'm the Chargers, I'm like, figure it out.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Like we gave you this job. If you want to take a head coaching job, okay. But also you're going to leave us hanging. So if you're going to do it, do it now or don't do it at all.

[Dan Fates]

So we're recording this on Friday. If Mike McDaniel is getting this job from the Bills, I'm saying is at the latest on Sunday.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Like, it has to be. It's not that they're waiting for Clint Kubiak and Mike McDaniel then is out. Right. I mean, that would be. You can't. Unless he says, well, I don't really care about the Chargers job. I'll just sit out or I'll wait to see what's happening. Because if Clint Kubiak in Seattle win and it goes on two more weeks to the super bowl and the Bills want to wait, the Chargers aren't going to wait for that. No, absolutely. So there would be a decision. So I think this one with McDaniel, fascinating what Josh Allen thinks about it. He's a guy, he's going against that team. He's obviously seen what the Dolphins can do offensively and the things they can do. Whether he would be intrigued about that for his offense. But yeah, I. I will say that net is. Is super wide. And then you got Philip Rivers.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I was to say the One thing about McDaniel is at least he's been a head coach before.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. And made the playoffs.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Made the playoffs. I think that is a benefit in terms of experience. Like, Philip Rivers has not coached at the collegiate level, let alone the NFL level.

[Dan Fates]

Hell of a high school team, though.

[Jenna Cotrell]

They went 13:1. I think they did. But that to me. And I get it. Hey, Philip Rivers, we saw what he did in the NFL when he came back. Cool. Story, obviously someone that. I think a lot of fans like him, but I don't think they like the idea of him than coaching the Buffalo Bills.

[Dan Fates]

I would say being a quarterback and the idea of being a play caller sort of go. Can be a little bit hand in hand now. I think Josh Allen understands play calling. I don't think Josh Allen tomorrow would be an offensive coordinator for a team. It would take an adjustment. I think Philip Rivers has always played like that because Philip Rivers is not Josh Allen like Philip Rivers is. Knowing where the ball's going, scheme is the thing. Right? That's the way he's played. And then he was out of the game for five years. It was coaching high school, just so we all know. He was coaching the same offense that the Colts used is what the whole big thing was. Then he came back and played okay in that role. I was thinking he could be your emergency third quarterback. You save a roster spot, get him a helmet. That fits, though.

[Jenna Cotrell]

By the way, I was seeing some things online about if Josh throws three interceptions, look who's running into the game. Game.

[Dan Fates]

He's got to drop a couple of lbs too, to play again. That was kind of funny, honestly. He's in retirement mode. But I guess as a CEO coach and you heard Bean say that. CEO coach and Philip Rivers, dad Gummet. He's not going to cuss. He does know the game. He's the locker room guy. He's also a quarterback. There is a lot of positives to him. I just think with all that would go into it. I mean, let me ask you this. If there was the connection there and you said Philip Rivers is the head coach, Davis Webb is the offensive coordinator. Even though Rivers is an offensive guy and a quarterback, I could see something in that case, right? Only because the head coach could focus on that, be an offensive guy, but still have a guy who is. Who is in the mode of being a play caller.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I just. I don't love the idea of having inexperience at both levels.

[Dan Fates]

You mean when Josh Allen is in his prime and you are moving on from Sean McDermott.

[Jenna Cotrell]

That's the thing. And we can talk about this till the cows come home. If you wanted to move on from Sean, I understand the fact that maybe a change was necessary. Josh is going to be 30 years old and I think it can be. It can be successful that. But that doesn't mean it's not going. It's going to be disruptive either way. It could be disruptive in a positive way to have a new coach. But also a new philosophy means you're getting new players into the building. That means the roster is going to be even more at flux than it already has been. And again, that does not mean it has to be a bad thing. But you're banking on it being a positive when it could mean it's going to take a couple years to really hit the stride for this new head coach and Josh Allen is going to be 30. I just, I, I struggle with how long it'll take to get the guys that this new head coach needs. But also the experience factor. I would love to see a head coach that has already been a head coach. I just think there's such a learning curve to being a head coach in the NFL that to have a guy that has the experience. Brian Dable failed as a head coach with the Giants. I think he learned a lot from what went wrong in New York and how he wants to better adapt if he were to get the job in Buffalo.

[Dan Fates]

But, and, and Brian Dabel's advantages. Josh Allen probably trusts him as a play caller more than anybody. And let's just start with what you just said. Brian Dable failed with the Giants, had one good year, it went south. The Giants had a lot of issues. They've now gone full circle and went full on culture with John Harbaugh and gave him $20 million. But Brian Dable coached Josh Allen hard when he did, when he had him, that everybody talks about. Josh is going to need some of that. I know they are tight, but Brian was never afraid to coach him hard. So the advantage that he has is head coaching experience, good and bad. And the fact that he, he hits the ground running with Josh Allen in terms of knowledge of each other, which is what the other guys do not have. But seeing something from a different perspective maybe is what. Listen, this is what I was trying to say to somebody the other day. I think Ben Johnson's a brilliant play caller. I think he did a really good job with the Bears. Now, that was not a team that had won before, but he came in, had a great year, won a playoff game and lost a heartbreaker in the second one. If the Bill's new coach does that next year, I guess that's good. But that's no farther than Sean McDermott is.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dan Fates]

And you have set this up to say we need to do better. That's. It is a, it is a thin place to, to, to, you know.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

What's the word? What do you do? You gotta thread the needle. You gotta thread this needle of Finding somebody who you're not gonna take a step back and then you also believe can take you a step farther.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yes.

[Dan Fates]

And so we don't know how this will play out. The Philip Rivers thing is kind of fascinating. You had heard things from people to say when he was done playing. It's like, wow. Rivers still has, you know, obviously the knowledge of the NFL. He knows offenses and all those things. I. I honestly think he is one of those kind of guys that could be a play caller just because that's what they do. But to give them the. Give him the keys to the whole thing. Never being a coach before, head coach or any kind of coach.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Outside of high school would be kind of wild.

[Jenna Cotrell]

That's a lot of projecting.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

That. That of. Okay, let's see. We. He did good in this role. Can he do great in this role? And I think, yeah, there's challenges that go into that. I mean, Philip Rivers for me is not like, I can't wait. I hope that's the candidate for me. If I was going to choose, I would want Brian Dable to be the head coach because of like what you talked about, his experience already being a head coach, his relationship with Josh Allen, Ryan Fitzpatrick AD on his podcast, he talked about how he thinks Allan can be mentally coached to even a higher level. And I agree with that. I think we know the talent that Josh is, but I think having someone that can have that edge to get Josh to be even more motivated, I think that next level for Josh actually does exist. So already having a rapport with Dable and the success that they can lean on of how they've developed Josh earlier on, I do think that that to me would be great. And then maybe having a Davis Web or. Well, it would most likely be Davis Webb in terms of oc because I think Clint Kubiak is going to get a lot of looks, but someone like that, that is fresh, that has new ideas that, you know, would be kind of the. The star guy like that, the Kubiak.

[Dan Fates]

One is fascinating only because he's already an oc. He's taken this team to the Final Four and may very well go to the super bowl. But he's not leaving there unless he's getting a head coaching.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Correct. Yeah, right. Which I don't blame him.

[Dan Fates]

The Davis Webb one is different because he's not the OC of the team. He's also working for Sean Payton Caller. That's the way it goes. The Josh being in on all the meetings is fascinating. Now, we have not heard From Josh Allen. We don't know how he feels. I will say this. I was told by somebody that obviously Josh had a good relationship, very good with. With Sean McDermott. That part of it that's up for Josh to be saying how he feels. I'm sure that was an emotional thing in total, but at a certain point, this train is running. Josh is greatly impacted by what happens next, and the team has him in these meetings. I. I assume that's all in person. I assume he's on the plane with everybody else going to Florida and going to California.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah, right.

[Dan Fates]

That's what they're doing. I'm happy that Josh is in. On some teams and some places people would be like, really? You're going to let the quarterback do that? It's Josh Allen and the Buffalo Bills, and I think they trust him and they want him as part of the whole process.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Well, the last thing you want to do is alienate your franchise quarterback. And I. The national perspective is, Josh Allen is just a player. Why is he involved in this? And I understand from the national perspective how you just don't get what Josh means to this organization. Josh needs to be on board. This is a decision that is because of him. Because they say, Josh Allen is this mvp. He can't get to the next level. He needs to be on board with the type of guy that's going to come into Buffalo and be his head coach. So it makes total sense to me that you're going to have a guy that Josh wants now. Should it be his final call? No, I. I don't believe in that either, but he absolutely should and will have influence on this decision.

[Dan Fates]

You want to see what the dynamic is now? He knows these people, but I don't know how often he sat in a room with Mike McDaniel.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I. I don't know.

[Dan Fates]

Obviously, he knows Dable, right?

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yes.

[Dan Fates]

Philip Rivers he would respect. I'm sure there is.

[Jenna Cotrell]

He played against Phil Rivers.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, played. I was gonna say in his last game, but then he came back.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah, that's fair.

[Dan Fates]

Rivers came back. I think it would be the last.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Game before this last game.

[Dan Fates]

Right. I think it would be fascinating to see him work with somebody like that. It's funny. Rivers is how old? 41. No, he's older than that. I think he's like. Isn't he like, 44 maybe? He's not that old.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Oh, he's 44, 44.

[Dan Fates]

And Davis Webb is 30. Davis. Webb is slightly older than Josh.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah, Davis.

[Dan Fates]

So when you look at those kind of players, the way people talk about Davis Webb does remind you of Sean McVeigh in a sense of. He's a guy that was on staffs and people like. I remember being at the combine. My brother, my nephew, huge Rams fan. And we were out at the combine, and I'm walking by and I see Sean McVeigh, and I. I took a. I sort of took a picture of him from a distance.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

You know, I can be obvious with some stuff, but that one, I was pretty good. And I sent it to my brother, and I go, this kid is your coach. He looked like a baby. Because he was a baby.

[Jenna Cotrell]

He was a baby.

[Dan Fates]

What was he, 30?

[Jenna Cotrell]

I think he was. Was he.

[Dan Fates]

He's. He's not even 40 yet, is he?

[Jenna Cotrell]

I think he. I thought he turned 40 this year. No, he's 39. He's this year.

[Dan Fates]

And he's been the coach there for what? He took him to the 2017, so he was 30. He's third, 29 or 30 years old, which is crazy. And the second year, he took him to the. I think they.

[Jenna Cotrell]

That's.

[Dan Fates]

To the Super Bowl.

[Jenna Cotrell]

That's when they lost to the Patriots.

[Dan Fates]

Right. So he took him to the Super Bowl. I think people think there's that kind of mind there.

[Jenna Cotrell]

He was 33 when he. He is the youngest head Coach hired in NFL history at 30. Youngest head coach to reach the Super bowl at 33. Youngest head coach to win the Super bowl at 36.

[Dan Fates]

So I'm not saying that that's what Davis Webb is going to be, but there are people that think that way. Now. You find a way to get him in the building with somebody else. I think that's. That would be a positive. Handing the head coaching job to him would be a lot. Right?

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah, I agree.

[Dan Fates]

But.

[Jenna Cotrell]

But also, if you think he's the guy, then maybe. Then maybe you think, screw it, we'll just have him and. And see what he can do in his first year and then see if he can develop into the guy that we think he can be. Because you don't want to lose him. If you. If you have Dable and then you have Davis Webb come in and he has a phenomenal season, you don't win the super bowl, but then he's getting head coaching opportunities and you lose him again. There is a risk that is involved with that setup, but there's. There's risk involved in this decision anyway you slice it.

[Dan Fates]

But you are sitting here with Josh Allen at 29, going to be 30, with a head coaching opening from a Team that has been in the playoffs, you are in a unique position. Yeah. And if the team thinks, I see good, good, good, good. And then I look at Davis Webb and I think potential to be great, they would rather take him a year early than lose him a year late. Meaning. Yeah, you know, if that's. I get that it would be wild to turn it over to somebody Josh's age, but if you believe he's a guy, then maybe he comes with, you know, does he hire a veteran offensive coordinator to be with him? He's never called the plays.

[Jenna Cotrell]

That's another thing too, though.

[Dan Fates]

That's a lot to put on anybody. Never calling plays and then being head.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Coach and play caller, that's a lot of responsibility.

[Dan Fates]

Then you have to go out and get.

[Jenna Cotrell]

And you also have to factor in the fact that Josh is 30. This is not like it's 25 year old Josh and you have a long Runway. The Runway is shorter because of Josh and his age, his playing style, all those things. Like the urgency has always been around, but now it's even more ramped up.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

With where Alan is at in his career and how close you've been and yet how far away you've also.

[Dan Fates]

Kubiak has definitely has more experience.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yes. Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

I really do believe that, like Sunday they win and you're gonna see sources with the Bills say that's their guy.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Because they'll get a good two weeks of positive stuff from him.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Kubiak is the son of Gary Kubiak.

[Dan Fates]

Who I think he's still coaching somewhere. Gary Kubiak, in like some European league. I heard that's. Now, to me, I would tell you this. If you hire Kubiak as your head coach, I would not mind seeing him bring his dad onto the staff.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

It's a veteran coach who's been around, who's won a Super Bowl.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Super bowl with the Broncos.

[Dan Fates]

He's the kind of guy that I think I. I would assume he and his dad have a good relationship. You would want that type of person with you.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

To guide you through some stuff. Bring your dad to work day.

[Jenna Cotrell]

That's. Yeah. I mean, so it's just so weird.

[Dan Fates]

I was thinking when we were flying back from Denver, you know, we were all tired. It's a long night.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Another crazy loss. And I thought this week was going to be okay. We get back, we do our meetings. We do the meetings with the, with the coaches, you know, and then you start push and then not. No, no, no, no. The Bills are the story. The Non playing story of the whole NFL.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I've barely thought about the fact that the Patriots are still playing, which makes me upset. But that's kind of been nice to have a distraction. But it has been a whirlwind these last couple of days from Monday to now. Also the narrative around Buffalo, how much that has shifted with is this a good job? Is it not a good job? I think people, the pendulum is swung back to this is a very good job. But there is the pressure that comes along with. You mentioned the Bears. They had, they were just trying to, to, to find the floor. Like their floor was inexcusable. They needed to figure that out for this next coach. It's. And Terry Pula said on Wednesday it's not super bowl or bust, but we all know that it's Super Bowler bust. It's got to be for you to make the move that you made. It's because you don't think you can get over the top. Now whether that happens in year one, that is left to be said. But this franchise cannot take a significant step back.

[Dan Fates]

Significant step back is the biggest thing I always laugh at super bowl or bust. It's sort of like must win game, you know. And that's when I go to Marv's line of World War II was a.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Must win, you know, are they going to interview him?

[Dan Fates]

Go Marv. I love Marvin.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I love Marv.

[Dan Fates]

But the idea behind it, the idea behind it is, is it, is it super bowl or bus? No, it can't be right because.

[Jenna Cotrell]

But I think that's. I, I think that's a little naive.

[Dan Fates]

To say that super bowl or bust would mean if you don't make the super bowl, we're firing you. They're not doing that with the coach for next year. That's a one first year to do it. The idea is in his time, that's expected or he's going to be gone. He's not going to get nine years.

[Jenna Cotrell]

That's what, that's what I'm saying though. So it is essentially super eventual bust.

[Dan Fates]

Yes, yes. But not for 20, 26.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Agreed. And that's why I say there is significant risk. Because.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

You're saying it's super bowl or bust. Not this year, but obviously within a coach's 10. I mean.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, I'm with you on that.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Which again risk is not like this could be the move that gets the Bills. Where they gonna go.

[Dan Fates]

It's a different type. We just don't know that for this coach because they don't have the Past failures.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Correct.

[Dan Fates]

But they inherit the past successes of Sean McDermott.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Because they inherit the pressure of Sean's success.

[Dan Fates]

Yes. And without the pressure of his losses.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Correct.

[Dan Fates]

But that starts getting tacked on to the next one. And also the truth is that gets tacked on to Brandon Bean and Josh Allen.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

At this point, because the guy who's being blamed is Sean McDermott and he's gone now. So next is the coach. I mean, the general manager, I think, in order of who gets blame, I think the first blame goes to Josh Allen, depending on how he plays. Because unless, you know, depending on what you think about the roster, like if Brandon Beane does not get him wide receivers for next year, he's going to get even more blame.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

And I think he has to do that. But Josh Allen now, I don't never heard Josh blame Sean McDermott, but narratively, Sean got a lot of blame for the Bill's failures. He is gone.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Correct.

[Dan Fates]

So now it goes to the quarterback and to the general manager. But yeah, people pay way more attention to the quarterback and the coach. So the coach is gone. Now it goes to the quarterback. Fair or unfair, that's what's going to happen. Especially him coming off a bad performance in his final game because he hasn't really done that every other year. Josh has been good. They've lost.

[Jenna Cotrell]

So do you want to talk about any of the other candidates? Yeah. Lynn obviously was the Bills interim head coach at one point after the firing. Oh, excuse me. The firing.

[Dan Fates]

Running backs coach.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah, he's been. Obviously was with the Chargers. Anthony Weaver, who is a Saratoga Springs graduate.

[Dan Fates]

Is he really?

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yep.

[Dan Fates]

Did you guys go to high school together?

[Jenna Cotrell]

We did not go to high school together. He is a little bit older. Not that much.

[Dan Fates]

He's not. He's in his 40s, right?

[Jenna Cotrell]

He's. Yeah, he's 45.

[Dan Fates]

Oh, okay. So he's like a year older than you.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Okay. Assault.

[Dan Fates]

Oh, look at that. They had a blackout.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I punched.

[Dan Fates]

I'm not trying to be Anthony Lynn's nice man. His wife's a news anchor. I think she's still an anchor.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Oh, really?

[Dan Fates]

She used to anchor in New York.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I forgot about that.

[Dan Fates]

Anthony Lynn is not getting the head coaching job. And I don't mean I hate the Rooney Rule. There's too many talented people that get used in that. It doesn't mean maybe this is an interview for Anthony Lynn, that he has a role with the Bills with a new coaching staff. I just, I. I don't like the way the Rooney Rule is used I think it's lost its place in helping coaches, quite honestly. Mike McDaniel satisfies part of the Rooney Rule. He's considered a minority candidate. Excuse me. That was the wrong way to phrase it. He is a minority candidate.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yes.

[Dan Fates]

Anthony Weaver's interviewed with a bunch of teams.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

But I think maybe there's a place for Anthony Lynn. I like when people get interviewed. I like when people get interviewed, but at the same time, he's not going to be the head coach of the Bills. I think there's some people that probably. I don't think Lou Amaruno's gonna.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I said. I said Amarillo. Amarillo. The other day. Lou Anarumo, Anna Ruma.

[Dan Fates]

I always want to go M. It's Annaruma.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Could be D.C. right?

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yes. Yes. Okay. Yes.

[Dan Fates]

These guys had success, especially if Philip Rivers is your head coach. He just worked for him with the Colts.

[Jenna Cotrell]

And then Grant Udinsky, who's from the Jags. OC he called third down in red zone, I believe.

[Dan Fates]

That's wild, isn't it?

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah, that's pretty.

[Dan Fates]

It's like, here's. Here's what I'm gonna give you, dude. The two most important plays of the whole drive.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I mean, the Jags were really good in the red zone, so.

[Dan Fates]

Wait a minute. Your guy, the genius in Jacksonville, didn't call everything.

[Jenna Cotrell]

That's crazy. I don't like.

[Dan Fates]

I don't.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I don't really like Liam Cohen. I don't really want a head coach like that.

[Dan Fates]

Like, I. I did listen to Yudinsky. Did I say that right?

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

In the interview. Came across pretty cool. Like, I liked his demeanor, tone. He worked with koc, which. Who? Everybody loves Kevin o'. Connell.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I bet Kevin o' Connell loves him.

[Dan Fates]

How about you make a trade with the Vikings? Hear me out, okay?

[Jenna Cotrell]

They play in Minnesota this year, so.

[Dan Fates]

How about you make a trade? You get Kevin o', Connell, and they elevate defensive coordinator, former.

[Jenna Cotrell]

You're talking about the Bills get Kevin O'. Connell.

[Dan Fates]

Bills get Kevin O'. Connell.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Okay.

[Dan Fates]

They're O.C. they are D.C. is. Oh, my God. He was the Brian Flores. Brian Flores, who it was thought of for head coaching jobs.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yes.

[Dan Fates]

Maybe they have a thought. They want to elevate Brian Flores. I'm just making this up. Kevin o' Connell would be really good for the belts. I think he's really, really good. Offensive coach.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Coach, experience.

[Dan Fates]

But you got to give up. Yeah, I don't think they're really doing that. I'm just saying Brian Flores was still out There looking for head coaching jobs. That's the same thing. They have a new contract with him as their dc, but he can take head coaching job if that comes up.

[Jenna Cotrell]

When do you think they hire someone? I guess it's really dependent on what how this weekend goes too, in terms.

[Dan Fates]

Of interviews, I guarantee, and obviously game results. So, Jenna, when they hire the coach, what happened in the interview? They were privy. Wow.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Oh, they were wowed. Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Wowed us. In the interview process, they always got to wow you. You got to wow. Now if somebody. What are you laughing at?

[Jenna Cotrell]

I just think they gotta wow you.

[Dan Fates]

Well, they do. They'll be like, he came in. I remember hearing the story of Andy Reid when he first came to the Eagles. He was quarterbacks coach for Green Bay, Brett Favre. People are like, like, brett Favre needs a coach. Oh, Brett Favre needed a coach. But he was never a play caller, was never a coordinator. And they said he came in with all these binders of all this stuff and he wowed them.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Wowed him.

[Dan Fates]

But they gave him the head coaching job and people were like, wow, this guy was never even a play caller back then. Nobody got hired like that. And you usually had to be 50 to be a head coach. And he was younger and he came in and he took over. By the way, speaking of that, doesn't the Rams kicker, punter look like. Yes. Andy Reed in the punt, pass and.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Kick competition, Thousand percent. They call him the thick kicker or thicker.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, he's up there. You guys have seen the Andy Reid in that old Rams uniform kicking in the punt, passing, kick. It is unbelievable. Then when he runs out on the field, I'm like, it's Andy Reid in that Rams uniform.

[Jenna Cotrell]

What do you think for the games this weekend? Who do you got?

[Dan Fates]

So I actually heard the Patriots aren't going to play against the Broncos. They're going to play against Philip Rivers high school team this weekend. The league doesn't think the Broncos. They think the Broncos are a little too much for them. They want to give them another easier try. They've had injured teams. They've had teams with suspensions. Suspensions, yeah. Whatever. It was, the league's like, I think we need maybe line them up against a high school team. Now, look, the Patriots should win, but I don't know. That game is in Denver. If they get anything out of the quarterback, believe me, if it was a Houston Texans playing and they just did not play CJ Stroud and maybe snap the ball to a running back, I would think Houston would have a chance against them to play them again. But it's probably going to be New England, though. You never know with how Sean Payton is his ego man. He would love, love to beat New England with a backup quarterback who used to be with the Patriots who never plays would be fascinating.

[Jenna Cotrell]

The last time the Broncos hosted the AFC championship, they beat the New England Patriots. Now, I expect the Patriots to win, but wouldn't that be something?

[Dan Fates]

That would be other side of the ball.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I know everyone's going Seahawks, but I think the Rams.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, Rams are. You know, they're really good. They haven't looked great over the last four or five weeks.

[Jenna Cotrell]

That's totally fair.

[Dan Fates]

And McVeigh's got to be better. Honestly. Great play caller. I've never thought of him as a great game coach. Stafford's got to be better. Like, he's got the weapons. This may be it for Stafford, which would be wild. He could potentially go out as MVP and Super bowl champ, which would be quite a way to leave. Seattle's really good, though. And they play with a bit of a violence.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yes.

[Dan Fates]

Like, they really get after it.

[Jenna Cotrell]

That's fair. So I'm doing a PowerPoint. I'm doing a girls weekend next weekend for my birthday.

[Dan Fates]

Oh, yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

And I'm doing a power. We're all doing PowerPoint presentations.

[Dan Fates]

Oh, you guys are wild.

[Jenna Cotrell]

My PowerPoint presentation is a learning ball, but like little phrases my girlfriends can use when they're watching the Super Bowl. So I hope it's the Rams mostly so they could say Matthew Stafford. Pretty is spiral.

[Dan Fates]

Oh, by the way, do you know football?

[Jenna Cotrell]

I do, yeah. I think it's disappointing to some people that I do, but yes, I have. I have.

[Dan Fates]

Men agree with this.

[Jenna Cotrell]

You know what's crazy is when I'm real, real quick when I'm like out at a bar and like not in Rochester or whatever, and I. I'm watching a game somewhere, like with friends. I love being so annoying because they don't expect. A lot of people don't expect me to know football or really any sport. Like, watching a game be like, oh, this seems really good. Like, they must win championships all the time. And it's like the Cowboys, like, it's. It's incredible. It's. It's a rush. But yes.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, it is something. I will tell this one quick story. We were in. I was with Dan in Cleveland, and I went down to the bar just to have something to eat. It was late. Dan was going to bed. We had the game the next day. I sat there with a. By myself. With a glass of water and a little personal pizza. I was very happy. And this guy was next to me. And Jenna knows I sometimes can't take a pitch. I listen, Michael cannot take a pitch. First I thought he was hitting on the woman next to her. He just kept talking about his business. And I'm thinking to myself, this man is lying to you because men lie.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yes.

[Dan Fates]

And then he starts talking, talking. He just keeps going and keeps going. And then the woman eventually left. And then he started talking to the couple across me. I'm not saying a word. Do you know how hard it is.

[Jenna Cotrell]

For me to not say genuinely shocked?

[Dan Fates]

The Bears packers game. Not the playoff game. The regular season game. Crazy game.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Overtime. This guy now starts talking football. Oh, he's talking football. He is saying so much dumb. He's wrong about everything. And he's like, oh, they should do this. Or I can't believe this guy. Or, why is that guy playing? And he didn't know anything. He was going on and on, talking to this other couple, and I'm just sitting there quiet, not saying a word. And then the guy finally stops talking, which is annoying when these men keep talking. And he looks at me and he goes, how you doing? And I'm like, good. And he goes, what are you up to? I said, I'm just hanging out. He says, so, what do you do for a living? And I said, I cover the NFL. And he goes, oh. And then I. Kind of a mic drop moment. I had already paid.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

And I'm like, nice talking with you. And I just left. It felt so good.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Oh, I love it. Because I love it.

[Dan Fates]

The guy said dumb stuff the whole time.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yes. And then the amount of it gets.

[Dan Fates]

And I walked away. Like, for all he knew, I. I mean. I mean, I have covered it for a long, long time.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

But he said dumb stuff and thought, oh, yeah, nobody knows that I'm dumb.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yes. He said it with his chest. He.

[Dan Fates]

Oh, he definitely did.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yes.

[Dan Fates]

He was very confident in his dumb opinions.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah. That's. That's amazing.

[Dan Fates]

So then I walked off.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah. Met some people like that.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. Well, you must. You get. You get that.

[Jenna Cotrell]

It's always fun. Yeah. Like when people quiz me, that's like. I'm like, oh, okay.

[Dan Fates]

How many players were on the team?

[Jenna Cotrell]

Do you like sports? Yeah. Hate to break it to you. Okay. Anything else?

[Dan Fates]

No. 1 I think I wanted to remind people of. If you've stuck with us this long, we are going to start doing our life advice.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Oh, yes. Yes.

[Dan Fates]

On the podcast.

[Jenna Cotrell]

What? Not to say at a bar.

[Dan Fates]

Well, so we want, we're going to want think of things.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yes.

[Dan Fates]

If you have questions, you have.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah. It doesn't have to pertain to football.

[Dan Fates]

Because while really they're all sorted together here, we do come at things in life a little differently.

[Jenna Cotrell]

But I think, and this is the reason why I think we all have different perspectives in the best way that we can have a discussion about someone's thing they're bringing to us and the way we would approach it or I have taken on it.

[Dan Fates]

In Jenna's position in life, newly married.

[Jenna Cotrell]

House, you've been a woman.

[Dan Fates]

That's another story. I was just. See, I wasn't seeing things that way. I wasn't trying to diminish you or say joke. And I've been in Dan's position with his 15 children that he has. And now I'm in this other part of it where I'm a grandfather, but I'm living that life. And Dan is. Well, Dan has fascinating opinions on a lot of stuff. So with this would be. And maybe you've seen other shows do it, but we think we could have fun with it where you would. Something comes up and a lot of times it's like I got invited to this thing and I wanted to watch the Bills game.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

And my wife was going to be pissed at me or my husband was thinking it was crazy that I was going to do this. Or what do I do when my father in law says crazy things?

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

You know, like those are the kind of things. We're going to set up an email because that's probably the easiest way for you to get to us.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yes. Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

So think of those things if they come up and then. And then we'll answer them.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah. Okay.

[Dan Fates]

All right, let's see. They haven't hired anybody.

[Jenna Cotrell]

No, they haven't. I've been on, I've been on Twitter looking. I just feel like they're gonna hire someone. We're all going to be sitting around and then it's like, oh, we've been.

[Dan Fates]

Trying, like it's hard to get information. I give this to the Bills. They usually don't leak a lot. A lot of information. They try to. And a lot of the candidates, and we've talked to some of the candidates, they are like buttoned up because the team doesn't want anything out there. They don't, they don't want anything known. It does not help your candidacy to have your agent or anybody else leak stuff. Some stuff gets out, just that this guy's going to interview or that guy's going to interview. So far, we haven't heard any of the great experience. They loved them. He wowed them.

[Jenna Cotrell]

He wowed them.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

You're gonna get a wow. But that'll be after the fact, and that'll be what they say at the press conference. So, yeah, okay.

[Jenna Cotrell]

All right. We'll have plenty more. That's another reminder. Way more coverage as this Bills offseason took a turn a lot of us didn't expect. We'll have coverage as the Bills look to find their newest head coach. I believe it would be the 22nd head coach in franchise history.

[Dan Fates]

21 of them were during the drought. There was a lot of. That was a revolving door.

[Jenna Cotrell]

That's fair. That's fair. Okay. For Dan, who's not here, and for Mike, I'm Jenna. Please be sure to, like, comment, subscribe and share. We will catch you next time here on the Buffalo Plus YouTube channel.