Mike Catalana (1:56)

And they went and had a little fun. Yeah, you know they did. She deserves it. I mean, it's been a lot on their family. But to be a five year old and go through non stop with this up to this point, all those appointments. So yeah, Dan will have some things to say. He also has some travel stories.

Jenna Cottrell (2:13)

I apparently I did not hear me this morning.

Mike Catalana (2:18)

Took the heat for it. Said he did something wrong and he's embarrassed.

Jenna Cottrell (2:22)

Okay. That I'm curious to see.

Mike Catalana (2:24)

So Dan was wrong.

Jenna Cottrell (2:25)

Dan was wrong. Turn the mug. All right, let's jump into a little bit of stuff. We're happy for Dan. The Fates family, really excited for them as we get moving forward. I mean, training camp. I can't believe we are we're closing in on just a couple hours away from the start of camp. Let's start with just the biggest storyline, you think, heading in to. To camp at Fisherman.

Mike Catalana (2:45)

Oh. So the biggest storyline overall, I think, is Hard Knocks.

Jenna Cottrell (2:49)

Oh, okay.

Mike Catalana (2:50)

Because I think it's going to be a daily thing, and I think as viewers and us, we're going to learn stuff that Even in my 350 years of covering this team, I've never been privy to. You know?

Jenna Cottrell (3:06)

Yeah, privy.

Mike Catalana (3:08)

Yes, I know that word sends shivers through people's spines when you think of.

Jenna Cottrell (3:16)

It.

Mike Catalana (3:16)

Wasn't privy. Well, we are never privy to some of those meetings.

Jenna Cottrell (3:20)

Not in the building.

Mike Catalana (3:21)

Yes. So I. When I say that I think it's going to be a positive thing.

Jenna Cottrell (3:26)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (3:26)

I think there's gonna be a lot of positive stories, but overall, I would think that would be the biggest thing. Unless it's not.

Jenna Cottrell (3:36)

Yeah. I mean, I think training camp is a big deal, and I think also James Cook and how it all plays out with him wanting a new contract. Will he be at camp? Will he come to camp and then not practice? Will he be out on the field? Will the Bills and him find a deal? Will they not? Will this be his final season in Buffalo? Like, there's just, I think, so many things up in the air and so many different ways that this could play out. And that's kind of the. The biggest thing to me is what will this all look like as we start camp and as the summer progresses?

Mike Catalana (4:09)

So let's go back to mandatory camp. I think all of us were under the impression that he wouldn't be there.

Jenna Cottrell (4:16)

I. I was genuinely surprised that he was there. Like, I was. I. I was pleasantly surprised because my expectation just with him missing earlier parts of the spring and OTA stuff, I was like, oh, it makes sense to me that he wouldn't be at mandatory camp, but obviously he proved me and a lot of people wrong when he.

Mike Catalana (4:35)

Did show up to that and participated. And was.

Jenna Cottrell (4:37)

And participated. Absolutely.

Mike Catalana (4:39)

And listen, it's fines. And he doesn't want to give up his money. He shouldn't want to give up his money.

Jenna Cottrell (4:43)

No. Yeah.

Mike Catalana (4:44)

In this league. But listen, for the Bill's sake and for everybody, I hope James is there. I hope if they're going to come to an agreement, it happens now. But to me, Jenna, almost a little bit is like, well, if they haven't done anything leading up to camp, I don't know if there's going to just be a resignation amongst the both sides that he's going to Play his way out and then that's going to be it. I don't know if there's a way, and we've talked about this, to. To compromise a little bit. He comes in, they talk, the Bills beef up the contract. It might cost them the compensatory side of it because I think once you redo the deal, then I think you lose that count towards the picks. But having James Cook on the field is. Is pretty big.

Jenna Cottrell (5:30)

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I. I wonder how much communication they have had over this summer or if it kind of has been a. Of. You know what? We'll each take a break, we'll let things kind of cool off, and when camp comes back together, we'll. We'll renegotiate and real realize. Excuse me. And take. Take a bit of a breather. But I mean, you know how I feel. I think just James Cook, what he adds to the team. And I get it. There's. There's a ton of different sides, but I am curious just how far apart the numbers are, because to me, if you're close, it would be worth it, in my opinion. But I am not Brandon Bean. But that brings us to just how this Bill's offense can be better in 2025. I think there was a lot to, like about 2024 and what the Bills were able to do and. But I do think that heading into this season, there are ways for this team to be even more explosive, even more dynamic, and even more firepower. Really.

Mike Catalana (6:21)

Under Josh, I think the first thing they got to do. They had only eight turnovers last year. I think you got to get rid of the one guy on the team had all eight turnovers. Get him out of Orchard Park.

Jenna Cottrell (6:37)

Who.

Mike Catalana (6:38)

Josh Allen. I was like.

Jenna Cottrell (6:41)

Who had eight turnovers.

Mike Catalana (6:43)

He had the two fumbles that they lost, which is insane.

Jenna Cottrell (6:48)

The fact that. Yeah.

Mike Catalana (6:49)

Yes. And he had all six interceptions. Eight turnovers. Josh, you had 100% of the team's turnovers. Their. Their turnover differential was phenomenal. I look at this as a positive for that team. I look at it as a negative going forward. Well, because it's so hard to replicate that.

Jenna Cottrell (7:13)

Yeah. That's fair. That's fair.

Mike Catalana (7:14)

They did not put the ball on the ground. And when they did, most of the time, they got it back.

Jenna Cottrell (7:18)

They had unbelievable fumble luck.

Mike Catalana (7:20)

Yeah. And there is a little luck. They all. They didn't put it on the ground that often.

Jenna Cottrell (7:25)

Agreed.

Mike Catalana (7:26)

I think it was. If I'm read it right, maybe there was 11 or 12 fumbles.

Jenna Cottrell (7:31)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (7:31)

That most of them. They Got back, but the defense was not great, but they turned it over. They were number one in the league in. In turnover differential. Yeah, that's a huge plus. So when you look at them offensively, they were not losing the ball, and they converted at a pretty high rate on fourth downs. So they kept drives going and they got the ball back on turnovers. Now, on the downside for the defense, in those turnovers, a lot of times it seemed to happen, like later in the drives, the other team would hold on to the ball, that they were not great at getting off the field in a normal way, but they would get turnover.

Jenna Cottrell (8:10)

So listen, that's very true.

Mike Catalana (8:12)

You point to that turnover differential. That's the one that's hard to replicate. I'm not saying they're going to have a ton of turnovers and, and I think Josh played really smart, but that's the one thing you go, okay, you know, let's see if you can do it again.

Jenna Cottrell (8:26)

It's really hard to recreate that because it was just such an anomaly. I think that it did happen.

Mike Catalana (8:31)

I looked back at some old Bills teams And in the 91 team, you know, I've heard people mention how good the offense was last year, and it was very good. I don't think as an offense when they're maintaining the ball and scoring was quite as dynamic as what it was in the 90s. And I'm not just looking back going, well, yeah, the old days, the old guy thinks this was great. But they did have Thurman, you know, I mean, these guys all have Gold Jackets. What that team did do was they turned the ball over a lot. I think that year Jim had like 19 interception or they had like 35 turnovers. They moved the ball at an incredible rate. Yeah, they turned it over a lot. It was kind of wild the way they played. So that was the difference. So I say to you, is that just the way they play now? And maybe it goes up to from eight turnovers to 12 or 13. Or were they just fortunate in what happened last year?

Jenna Cottrell (9:34)

I think two things can be true. I think that. That they obviously were incredibly fortunate. But I do think, and we've talked about Josh Allen and how coming into this last, one of the biggest things that he wanted to work on in the off season last year was the turnovers was some of the decision making. And it is wild to see what Josh Allen wants to work on and the results that happen the next year, because I think you've seen just through him growing in the league and the Things that he's adapted to and the things he's wanted to get better at, he's done a great job of doing. And is it recreatable to have this season that low of a turnover rate? I don't think so. But that being said, that doesn't mean it has to double. That doesn't mean it has to, you know, jump dramatically. I just think that they were in. They did have some luck as well, but I think that that's a part of this team and just some of the decision making and it starts with Josh and it does trickle down. So that's. That to me is something that while I don't expect it to be as low this season, I don't also expect it to completely become an issue and run out of control and be rampant.

Mike Catalana (10:36)

Yeah. The two fumbles lost was the best season in NFL history. It was tied with a couple other teams with only losing two, you know, yards per game. They were ninth points per game. They were second offensive possessions per game, which is an interesting one because you can look. I think Dallas had the most possessions, which is just interesting the way it went. They were 14th time of possession 8th. They had the 9th fewest punts. I will say the other thing that goes with the turnovers, he only took 14 sacks all season.

Jenna Cottrell (11:08)

I was going to. I was wondering at what point we would also get into like o line play A little bit about that.

Mike Catalana (11:12)

They were great. They were great. But the place I would say they could improve the most is the overall passing game. They were 14th in passing yards. Yeah, they did a very good job. They were very efficient. I did not look at them as being a dynamic passing game, which is.

Jenna Cottrell (11:30)

So funny considering you have Josh Allen as your quarterback. But I think the stats support that. That they were not always the pass first offense that we have seen in years past in Buffalo.

Mike Catalana (11:40)

No, they ran it. Ran it well. And when we talk about the run game, and we already just talked about, you know, what they're going to get out of James Cook, this is another one. Last year he had compared to 23. James Cook carried the ball last year 30 times less and had 113 less yards than he had in 2023. But he had 14 more touchdowns, which is wild. He had 12 less catches, 12 less 16 less targets, 12 less catches than the year before. I just think he was a more dynamic player.

Jenna Cottrell (12:17)

I absolutely. Do you think that was by design though, or do you think that was a piece of Ray Davis getting out on the field?

Mike Catalana (12:23)

I think the Ray Davis thing Was big.

Jenna Cottrell (12:24)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (12:25)

I think when Ray came in, he was very good in that role. And I looked at the snap counts, it was a 485 for James, 264 for Ray Davis, 316 for Ty Johnson.

Jenna Cottrell (12:37)

I mean, they have a very good running back room. Yeah, they really do like what they struggle with in terms of, I think in terms of receivers pass. Like, I think that that running back room really does help this team and the production that they want to get.

Mike Catalana (12:52)

Ty Johnson too, is. It seems like every catch he made was a big catch.

Jenna Cottrell (12:57)

He had 25 targets, I think of that Detroit game. Oh, yeah.

Mike Catalana (13:01)

And the catch he made against Denver in the playoffs.

Jenna Cottrell (13:04)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (13:04)

In the regular season, 25 targets, 18 receptions, 14 for first down, three for touchdown. He's great in that.

Jenna Cottrell (13:12)

So good. And I feel like he's so undervalued. If you were, you know, an A fan from, like, not a Bills team, you wouldn't be like, oh, Ty Johnson, who's that? But the role that he does play on this team, and especially like on third down, some of the plays that he's able to make.

Mike Catalana (13:28)

I like the running back room a lot. Look, I hope James Cook is there, ready to go. That'd be great. And as much as I think of Ray Davis right now for this team in this season, I like Ray Davis in that number two running back role. You know what I mean? Like, listen, if he has to for some reason early in the year, we'll see what happens with James Cook. You know, I mean, this can happen in the league where players show up. Yeah, that's a tough one. This is going to be a lot of fines if you're not showing up. But for any other reason, I like Ray Davis in that two role. I love Ty Johnson in his role. And when you have the literal buffalo at running back, at quarterback, running back, Josh just adds so much to the run game. And then to your point, the offensive line, I looked at snap counts. Six top snap counts for the team. One is quarterback Josh Allen. The other five are the offensive line, which makes sense.

Jenna Cottrell (14:27)

It does. But they have been. I don't wanna. I don't wanna jinx it, but.

Mike Catalana (14:34)

Well, they brought back every egg starter and every backup.

Jenna Cottrell (14:37)

Well, and the health piece.

Mike Catalana (14:39)

Yeah, they've been.

Jenna Cottrell (14:39)

They've been strong. They've been strong with that.

Mike Catalana (14:42)

Yep.

Jenna Cottrell (14:42)

But also they've. I mean, I think about a couple years ago when we were questioning Spencer Brown.

Mike Catalana (14:47)

Yeah.

Jenna Cottrell (14:48)

Obviously Brandon Bean and McDermott showed a lot of faith in him and he had had the Back injuries. And we're like, ah, is this guy going to be the guy that you thought he could be coming off a really great season? And I think he showed. And then just the entire offensive line, the way they were able to work together, you saw how much, I mean, you mentioned, Josh, 14 sacks this season. Then also the running gameplay that you saw how cohesive that unit was and what that did for this offense. I have a question for you, though.

Mike Catalana (15:14)

Yep.

Jenna Cottrell (15:14)

I mentioned earlier, like, some of the places for concern if. If James Cook is not who he was on the field in 2024. How worried are you about this offense in 2025? Like, regardless of the contract situation, any of that? I'm talking about the player on the field. If he takes a little bit of a step back and he has a season similar to 2023.

Mike Catalana (15:39)

Yeah.

Jenna Cottrell (15:39)

How worried are you?

Mike Catalana (15:42)

I think they're going to throw the ball better this year. I think they already plan to have some of that as part of the regular offense. I think they believe. I mean, they were, you know, like I said, they were 14th in passing.

Jenna Cottrell (15:55)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (15:56)

And I think with Josh Allen and talent that he has wide receivers and hopefully a tight end, they can improve on that. Would they need to more if James Cook is out? You know, maybe for a game or two? You know, I think they can make up for it. But what I think they miss if James Cook for any reason is not on the field is that dynamic part and it's the making plays and the guy came through for him. Yeah. And I just think of, you know, even though it was more play call, but I go back to the Miami game when they ran that great call.

Jenna Cottrell (16:31)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (16:32)

Dumped it off to James and he went in. I mean, he. He's, you know, was great. He caught the ball last year.

Jenna Cottrell (16:38)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (16:38)

He might have had a drop or two, but that was not an issue.

Jenna Cottrell (16:41)

That touchdown, the AFC Championship game.

Mike Catalana (16:44)

Incredible.

Jenna Cottrell (16:44)

You mentioned the Bills throwing the ball more. I think that's a product of how little they did throw the ball this last season. But do you think that's also a testament to the personnel they have or Joe Brady now entering his second full season, or is it a combination?

Mike Catalana (16:58)

I think it was a combination of it, but I think Joe Brady's got another gear. And like any other team, like, I think the Bills want teams around the league, even Baltimore, who they just played in the playoffs, to say, this is who the Bills are, and then come out. Maybe they come out chucking the ball week one, like when New England was at their best. They Were versatile in both ways. They could run it and they could throw it and they had Tom Brady. And I think, I think there is another gear for this passing game. I don't know if it's week in and week out. It could depend on the opponent. We saw Joe Brady do that with the run game when they played Dallas that time and he just decided, yeah, I know we throw. We've been throwing it a lot really before he was really in control. And then they just ran it down their throat. And then the next week it was much more balanced. So I think they can do that. And you're just. You're going to put even more. I shouldn't even say more. A different thing on Josh Allen and I think he. We know he can throw the football.

Jenna Cottrell (18:02)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (18:03)

And maybe it does increase the potential for turnovers if you're going to throw it more.

Jenna Cottrell (18:08)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (18:08)

But I do think on paper they have a better receiving group than they did a year ago. But I think last year showed us. Outside of you saying Khil Shakir, we didn't know about what that wide receiver room was going to be.

Jenna Cottrell (18:22)

No, we didn't. And even the Khil Shakir was, I don't want to say lucky, but I didn't expect him to have kind of the breakout that he did have. I thought he was very sure handed and I was like, you gotta love that. A receiver that can catch the ball. But the yak that we saw was obviously a really nice pop that I don't think a lot of people were.

Mike Catalana (18:40)

100 targets, 76 catches, 10.8 per, which is down a little bit.

Jenna Cottrell (18:44)

Still.

Mike Catalana (18:45)

Still 55 yards a game.

Jenna Cottrell (18:47)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (18:48)

Like, I think he's got another gear in him.

Jenna Cottrell (18:50)

I do too. I agree. Is he your pick for leading the team in receptions?

Mike Catalana (18:57)

Well, we haven't gotten there yet.

Jenna Cottrell (18:58)

Okay.

Mike Catalana (18:58)

I'll wait for Dan.

Jenna Cottrell (19:00)

Yeah, that's fair. We need fates here.

Mike Catalana (19:01)

Yeah. We have to take MVS again. Keon, you know, only 27 catches last year. That if he's on the field, that number is going to go up this year he did have 556 yards, is 19 yards of catch. Curtis Samuel had only 46 targets, 31 catches. We will see.

Jenna Cottrell (19:20)

Okay, but Curtis Samuel, you talk about another gear. I think you think about how he ended the year and how different it was than when he started the year. And I do think that that's someone to me, that's not a new guy obviously, but someone that could make an impact. They also paid him decently. Like you want him to Be involved. And I think at the end of the season, you saw some of the success of, like, oh, this is why they brought this guy in. Now, how much can he build off of that? I'm not sure. But I also have. I'm more optimistic on him because in the beginning, middle of the year, I was like, dude, what is happening? It felt like every time they threw him the ball, something bad would happen.

Mike Catalana (19:57)

So there's a lot of hot takes on Curtis Samuel floating around.

Jenna Cottrell (20:00)

Okay, I must have missed them.

Mike Catalana (20:04)

Would they deal? Curtis Samuel, you know, it's funny, I looked at him and I'm like, I.

Jenna Cottrell (20:09)

Did not see that.

Mike Catalana (20:09)

The five seasons before he played with the Bills, he had one year he was injured. The other five years he averaged. That was in Carolina and Washington. He averaged 93 targets per season. Last year he only got 46 targets. I don't think he was 100% healthy. But the way that contract works, if they were able to trade him, if for some reason they were looking to, they can move on some of that from the cap. If they cut them, not so much. So it's just the way. Because obviously they'd be still on the hook for the, for the salary. The only reason that has been brought up is replication of what they have now with, you know, Elijah Moore, Josh Palmer, those guys, and then you figure out how the rest of it goes.

Jenna Cottrell (20:57)

Are you optimistic that Curtis Samuel can make more of an impact this.

Mike Catalana (21:01)

Yeah, because I'm going to take credit for it because I'm going to say I was way ahead because I predicted him to have the best season the year before. So if he has a really good year this year, I'm gonna say not how takes work. Oh, I'm gonna say I was way ahead. I was a year ahead of everybody else on that. Does that work that way? That sounds like a Dan.

Jenna Cottrell (21:18)

So are you doubling down then taking care to Samuel? That's what that sounds like.

Mike Catalana (21:22)

No, no, no. I'm just waiting to take credit for it.

Jenna Cottrell (21:24)

Oh, okay.

Mike Catalana (21:24)

Because I already put it out there. I put it out there way early on.

Jenna Cottrell (21:28)

That's. Yeah, you were too early.

Mike Catalana (21:30)

I do think what's fascinating about the wide receiver room is none of them play special teams. Yeah, everybody wants to throw these five guys out there. I don't need to go too much into detail. You'll see everybody's 53 man projections on this team. They need somebody to return kicks.

Jenna Cottrell (21:48)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (21:48)

So is that player going to be. I've heard Elijah Moore's name thrown out there. He did it in college, he barely. He did it, like, twice. You do not want at all. You don't want Kalushakir doing it.

Jenna Cottrell (21:58)

No, he is too valuable.

Mike Catalana (22:00)

Micah Hyde, in terms of returning kicks, like, if somebody's hurt for a game, fair catch, catch the ball, take it out, be smart. Yes. He's too valuable to do that. Then you start getting into other players like Chenault, who's, you know, got history with Chris Tabor, the offensive or the special teams coach.

Jenna Cottrell (22:20)

I'm excited to talk to him.

Mike Catalana (22:21)

You know, I went. I want to see a little more about Jalen Virgil. He got to play a lot of special teams when they brought him up. He was a returner in college. Again, I don't know. I don't. You know. And they still have KJ Hamler around. And then.

Jenna Cottrell (22:36)

Great sound bite.

Mike Catalana (22:37)

Codrington.

Jenna Cottrell (22:39)

Brandon Codrington, he does not play corner.

Mike Catalana (22:42)

If he's on this team, He.

Jenna Cottrell (22:43)

Well, that's.

Mike Catalana (22:44)

Yeah, that's why technically, that's his position. So the reason I bring that up is. Is there a move from. Is there an. I don't think they activate six wide receivers for games. So you got to get some of that specialty. They get no special. They get no special teams out of their wide receivers.

Jenna Cottrell (23:03)

Who do you think is a receiver that you think could make be a pleasant surprise this season?

Mike Catalana (23:12)

I think a lot of people are feeling this way, so I don't know how much of a surprise. I like Josh Palmer's skill set.

Jenna Cottrell (23:19)

I do, too.

Mike Catalana (23:20)

And he's had big target years, too. That's what I like about him and Elijah Moore, these are guys who've been in the league. Now, you're also paying them guaranteed money, which is the downside to not maybe drafting more wide receivers. Sorry, Brandon, I didn't mean to bring it up. When we get you on the porch, we can ask about it, but at the same time, these guys have had. Between the three of them, they've had at least three 100 target seasons. I think Moore's got two and Palmer's got one. Yeah. In fact, more the last two years, 206 total targets. Now, I was playing for Cleveland, so they don't really count, but Josh Palmer a couple years ago had over 100 targets. So the reason I say this is these are guys who have gotten real reps and real targets and had production. In fact, when you look at Josh Palmer's year from, like, two years ago, it's very similar to numbers of what Khalil Shakir put on for the Bills last year. So I like Seeing that if you're going to have those guys, I know Curtis Samuel's done it before, but I think people are a little down because he didn't do as much. So I'm, I'm very interested to see what Josh Palmer does. Analyze them or both.

Jenna Cottrell (24:30)

I like, I like Josh Palmer. I'm buying a lot. Not Elijah Moore stock. I'm buying Curtis Samuel stock. Elijah Moore. I saw the cone video, him doing the sprints, the footwork. I know a lot of people love that.

Mike Catalana (24:44)

They love it. He's a small man. He is small. Like, you see him at camp, you're like, man, yeah, he's fast.

Jenna Cottrell (24:52)

He's. He is fast.

Mike Catalana (24:53)

Yeah. And guys like that can play. Like, if he can beat people, he can get open. Like, I think they can get him the ball. But, you know, there's so much. Well, we can talk about the other side of this, but just so much of what they do, I think will revolve around Keon.

Jenna Cottrell (25:11)

I would say we have not really.

Mike Catalana (25:13)

Talked about Keon and, you know, it just did not work as well as they wanted.

Jenna Cottrell (25:20)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (25:20)

And they called him out and that's. We said at the end of like the minicamps. Like, I liked the way he talked. I liked his realization of I need to be better at these things.

Jenna Cottrell (25:33)

He called his rookie season trash. Yeah, I liked that. I liked. It was. It was probably pretty harsh, but I liked someone being like, you know what? I wasn't good enough. I need to be better. I would rather have that because that to me says that you're okay coaching yourself hard.

Mike Catalana (25:49)

I want these wide receivers to be so good that Josh Allen wins MVP again because of his numbers.

Jenna Cottrell (25:54)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (25:55)

Not because of the guys who weren't high enough level players to help him. That Josh is just out there. I don't mean chucking it. Throwing for 350 every game, though. It'd be kind of fun to see.

Jenna Cottrell (26:08)

I would sign up for that.

Mike Catalana (26:09)

Yeah. I mean, it is fun to see. But. And we, when he's needed to do it, we saw those back to back Rams and Lions games. Even with this group last year, he could do it. So I think Keon is a huge part of what they want to do. Going to get a lot of snaps. And I, I do think Joe Brady, having a whole season with him, looking at what his skill set is, is going to find ways to get him the ball a little earlier.

Jenna Cottrell (26:36)

I do think the attitude that he had this offseason is what I needed to see. Yeah, I needed to see that Self awareness. I need to see. And, like, he is a type of player that, you know, he had a. A workout video that was posted as well. And, like, he doesn't have the. The quick feat that Elijah Moore does, but he's also a different type of guy. Like, I don't expect him to have that fluidity that Elijah Moore does in terms of the speed and stuff like that, but it's. How can you best utilize Keon and his skill set and his, you know, vertical, like, jumping ability? We talk about the contested catches, like, stuff like that. How can you find a way to maximize that? Because you did draft him in the second round, and he is a higher draft pick. But going off of that, it's like, I think Keon is a player that people are like, I need to see improvement in this season. And then I do think it's also Dalton Kincaid and what are you gonna get out of him in year three? And obviously, I know people will talk about the injuries and how that hampered him this last season, and I. I think that did play a factor. And also when you are out on the field and you're not performing well, you know, there's the criticism that comes with it. And if you are that injured, sometimes it's like, wow, I wonder why he, you know, was out there if it really made it that much more difficult for him to play. Do you know what I mean? Like, if he's that injured that it affects him that much. Part of me is like, why is he out there?

Mike Catalana (27:56)

Yeah, I mean, that's the danger of being a player who plays hurt slash injured.

Jenna Cottrell (28:03)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (28:03)

Because once you're on the field, there's an expectation.

Jenna Cottrell (28:06)

Yeah, it's true.

Mike Catalana (28:07)

And, like, he made points with his teammates, I think, because I think a lot of them have commented that he was really banged up and he went out there to play. I hope that's the case. You mentioned Spencer Brown.

Jenna Cottrell (28:20)

Yes.

Mike Catalana (28:20)

They speak about Dalton Kincade in a similar way that they speak about Spencer Brown. You know, they. They made some excuses for him early on, you know, Covid, and then coming out of school and smaller program, and then he was hurt, and you're like, okay. And then he played much better, and he's become a cornerstone of the team, certainly of the offensive line. And I think they hope that for Kincaid, the one I don't buy. You know, I've heard people talk about the uncatchable rate on passes, and, you know, it's like, Bill's made a lot of changes, so, you know, maybe they just weren't on the same page. His uncatchable pass rate as a rookie was 10%. So what? They got less time together year two, and I know, I know they tried maybe a little farther down. If you look at his average rate per pass, distance wise, it was a little farther. But let's, let's settle down with that. Josh Allen had great numbers with every other wide receiver and I'm not totally blaming it on Kincaid, but the year before, you know, targeted 91 times, 30, 73 catches, 9.2 yards per catch. And then last year is the, the rate of Uncatchable Balls was 34 in year two. It was 10 in year one. Yeah, he was with. And they're boys.

Jenna Cottrell (29:41)

Well, that's the thing where I know some people were talking about like, oh, chemistry. And they need to work on that. And I, I think there's, it is evident that there's some type of disconnect when they're on the field. And also they are very close friends that have spent a lot of time together. And so I don't think playing more Madden with one another is going to fix that. Like, I, I think it's just having to. Whether that's watch more tape or run. I, I don't know what that looks like, but I don't think it's because of that piece. Do you know what I mean?

Mike Catalana (30:10)

I agree. I, I think he was hindered. Okay, so they need him to be healthy. Hopefully he's healthy coming into this year. He's still going to be obviously a big part of their offense. But when we were sitting here a year ago, I think the assumption was he was going to be the focal point of the offense.

Jenna Cottrell (30:28)

I think that was a thousand percent. Now I do think it's unfair that people tabbed him as like the next Travis Kelce. Oh, that's because, that's, because that's diabolical and like genuinely stressful to think about for a young player in year two being like, you're gonna be like, you know, a future hall of Famer early on. But that being said, I think there was still more left to be desired. And I know people are going to say, know his rookie season, he had like franchise records for all that stuff. And I'm like, the Bills just really have never.

Mike Catalana (31:00)

The Bill's history of tight ends.

Jenna Cottrell (31:02)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (31:02)

Is bad.

Jenna Cottrell (31:03)

It's like two things can be true. He had a decent rookie season and also the bar was incredibly low for tight ends for the franchise. And if that is okay, we can admit that.

Mike Catalana (31:12)

Yes. And if that year would have just been a stacking for the next year.

Jenna Cottrell (31:16)

Absolutely. You'd be thrilled, excited. That's what their floor is.

Mike Catalana (31:20)

Yeah.

Jenna Cottrell (31:21)

How high do you think the ceiling is for him?

Mike Catalana (31:26)

I. I don't even. I don't think in terms of the numbers right now and say he could be, you know, 120 targets and 85 catches. Like, I don't know if he's there. I want to see him if, if it's truly about being healthy. I want to see him being the guy that they sold us on when he came in after the draft that he is a matchup problem. And they even referred to him as a wide receiver and talked about him being a little Cole Beasley. Like.

Jenna Cottrell (31:56)

Yeah, yeah, I forgot about.

Mike Catalana (31:57)

Yeah, I haven't seen any of that.

Jenna Cottrell (32:00)

Yes.

Mike Catalana (32:00)

I've seen moments where he's smooth. You know, we watched him in that camp and you're like, man, the guy just. Yeah, he just moves. His hands are good, you know, all that stuff. But I don't know, I guess my expectations are much more moderate. I think I was pretty high on him going into year two.

Jenna Cottrell (32:18)

So you feel like you've lowered your expectations. Okay.

Mike Catalana (32:21)

Yeah. And I'm glad Dawson Knox is still there.

Jenna Cottrell (32:25)

Yeah, No, I do too, because Dawson.

Mike Catalana (32:27)

You know, I mean, I called him.

Jenna Cottrell (32:29)

I called him tight end one.

Mike Catalana (32:31)

Yeah.

Jenna Cottrell (32:31)

At the end of last year and.

Mike Catalana (32:32)

He had the most snaps now also the games.

Jenna Cottrell (32:36)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (32:37)

And all. But he did.

Jenna Cottrell (32:38)

No, I get that. But in terms of like when they were on the field, their play, I had more confidence in Dawson Knox coming through and making bigger catches and.

Mike Catalana (32:49)

Yeah. I mean, that's just the way it plays out on the field. I say I've used this before, you know, the old Mike Schmidt line of. He was a baseball player back in the 80s. I know, old man, but his line was. He played in Philly was. There's a thrill of victory and the agony of reading about it in the paper the next day. And I sometimes feel like it's the thrill of victory and the agony of reading while they shouldn't have won because of the analytics or why this guy is better than you think he is for a bunch of numbers. And I like the numbers. But to your point, like, go to Detroit. Dawson Knox made that catch.

Jenna Cottrell (33:30)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (33:30)

It wasn't a 60 yard play. It wasn't a touchdown. It was an outstanding over the top catch on a throw by Josh. Those kind of plays, like, he has been that guy for them for the most part.

Jenna Cottrell (33:43)

Yeah. I totally get the statistics and I Think you can absolutely frame whatever argument or side of things you want to be on. But I also think that sometimes it's important to just, like, look at the player and the body of work. Maybe not just the stats, but the full everything. And that's why I think I totally understand. I think maybe we did have too high of expectations on Dalton, and maybe by lowering them a bit, he can surpass them. And you think, wow, look what this guy can add to the offense. But I think it is reasonable to say, hey, we've put a ton of pressure on this younger player. Maybe we need to dial some of that back and give him the opportunity to grow.

Mike Catalana (34:21)

Yeah.

Jenna Cottrell (34:22)

And how will he be utilized with Joe Brady? Will he have the same amount of opportunity that he had last season?

Mike Catalana (34:28)

And his quarterback, from what I was reading, at least on Instagram, maybe in the best shape of his life.

Jenna Cottrell (34:34)

You love this.

Mike Catalana (34:36)

What was the who?

Jenna Cottrell (34:37)

I don't even know if that's, like, real who. Who, The. Yeah, I don't know if it's a real news source.

Mike Catalana (34:43)

I sent it to you, right?

Jenna Cottrell (34:44)

Yeah, you did.

Mike Catalana (34:45)

And I was just laughing because that's not normally the stuff you say about Josh.

Jenna Cottrell (34:51)

Oh, okay. It was Business Insider. NFL quarterback Josh Allen says he's cutting out these two foods and his diet is probably the best it's ever been.

Mike Catalana (35:00)

Best shape of his life.

Jenna Cottrell (35:02)

Wasn't expecting that from Josh Allen. Best shape.

Mike Catalana (35:05)

What foods did he cut out?

Jenna Cottrell (35:06)

What foods do you think he cut out? Hold on. I don't know. This. I would say what foods I would cut out to be in the best shape of my life would be. Well, I feel like one of them kind of has to be alcohol, right?

Mike Catalana (35:18)

Alcohol and chips for you. Just gone. They got to be gone. No chili stops for me.

Jenna Cottrell (35:24)

Pasta and ice cream for me.

Mike Catalana (35:26)

Oh, well, yeah, those are.

Jenna Cottrell (35:28)

I don't really drink that much, and I don't. I'm not high. I just. I enjoy, like, bread, anything like that.

Mike Catalana (35:35)

Yeah, but what would you think the two for Josh would be?

Jenna Cottrell (35:38)

I'm.

Mike Catalana (35:39)

He can't say wings. Can he say buffalo?

Jenna Cottrell (35:42)

No. Business Insider. I would have to. Let me see.

Mike Catalana (35:47)

Cut these two foods out. Best shape of his life.

Jenna Cottrell (35:51)

We should ask protein heavy and steers clear of dairy.

Mike Catalana (35:55)

Oh, that seems like the Mrs. Got to him. Can you imagine a woman saying to her husband to do things to get in shape?

Jenna Cottrell (36:03)

I love that for her. Oh, my gosh. He's not extremely hungry when he gets up in the morning, so he usually eats a light breakfast. He fought. Oh. But he doesn't follow the interment fasting.

Mike Catalana (36:17)

Oh, okay. Yeah, we don't like him. I don't like him going into that, like low positive or any of that stuff.

Jenna Cottrell (36:23)

No, no. Low positive.

Mike Catalana (36:24)

Yeah. Stick with it.

Jenna Cottrell (36:26)

Josh taking out butter and dairy. Oh, butter. I love butter. Hold on. Butter is dairy.

Mike Catalana (36:33)

I thought, well, it is. Yes.

Jenna Cottrell (36:35)

Yeah. Okay.

Mike Catalana (36:36)

Yeah.

Jenna Cottrell (36:37)

Well, it says like, quote, I'm also taking the butter and dairy out, trying to eat very clean.

Mike Catalana (36:42)

Okay, let's see. Best shape.

Jenna Cottrell (36:45)

He also likes doing a full body workout. He goes for a swim. I grew up swimming competitively. Wow. I did not know that.

Mike Catalana (36:53)

Business insider. Getting the skirt.

Jenna Cottrell (36:56)

Wow. Very interesting.

Mike Catalana (36:58)

And go for a swim. You can go for a swim, get on a raft. And like.

Jenna Cottrell (37:03)

That'S my idea of swimming. I remember my parents were like, hey, maybe you should try swimming. And I was remember doing laps and then just stopping in the middle of the pool and sinking and being like, this is so hard. That is. That is a crazy workout.

Mike Catalana (37:18)

Yeah. Yeah.

Jenna Cottrell (37:20)

Not for me.

Mike Catalana (37:21)

I could see him saying, how about swimming? And they're like, okay, Josh. And then that's what he's doing.

Jenna Cottrell (37:27)

That's fair. I mean, he also probably played every sport. Growing.

Mike Catalana (37:30)

Yeah. He just. He was just non stop.

Jenna Cottrell (37:32)

So the butter, that I would struggle with that.

Mike Catalana (37:34)

All right.

Jenna Cottrell (37:34)

Maybe he was on the wedding diet too.

Mike Catalana (37:37)

Yeah.

Jenna Cottrell (37:38)

I mean, I don't think wedding's over. Yeah.

Mike Catalana (37:40)

Now it's time to go to work.

Jenna Cottrell (37:43)

All right. Anything else?

Mike Catalana (37:44)

No, I don't think so. I did see.

Jenna Cottrell (37:46)

Wait. New player that you expect to make the biggest impact.

Mike Catalana (37:51)

New player in terms of the offense.

Jenna Cottrell (37:54)

You expect to make the biggest impact.

Mike Catalana (37:56)

Yeah.

Jenna Cottrell (37:56)

Or you think can make an impact.

Mike Catalana (37:58)

I think I'll stick with Josh Palmer. You wanted to have him, too.

Jenna Cottrell (38:02)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (38:03)

Well, that's all right. I like being on your side with wide receivers because you were good last year. Also on the defensive side, I'm going to go with the rookie. I think TJ Sanders is going to be good for them. He's going to be impactful.

Jenna Cottrell (38:14)

Early second round pick that just signed.

Mike Catalana (38:16)

Also, Landon Jackson told Train Wreck Sports that he expects to be back soon. He's on the PUP list?

Jenna Cottrell (38:22)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (38:22)

Doesn't appear to be anything.

Jenna Cottrell (38:24)

Which if you enter camp on the PUP list, you can be taken off.

Mike Catalana (38:27)

At any time, anytime. Yeah. So if you put him on there at the beginning of the year after then, then he's out.

Jenna Cottrell (38:33)

Then you have to miss. I believe it's. Yeah.

Mike Catalana (38:36)

So that's obviously a considerable size minor, so that's good.

Jenna Cottrell (38:39)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (38:39)

So it'll Be good.

Jenna Cottrell (38:40)

I love Landon Jackson. That's who I think is going to have.

Mike Catalana (38:43)

Yeah, I think he could be really good for them. Camp's going to be fun. We're going to be out there.

Jenna Cottrell (38:48)

Yeah. Say hi if you see us.

Mike Catalana (38:49)

Yes.

Jenna Cottrell (38:50)

Love to chat.

Mike Catalana (38:51)

Yeah.

Jenna Cottrell (38:51)

Can I pull you for a chat? You don't get that? That's.

Mike Catalana (38:55)

No.

Jenna Cottrell (38:55)

I don't know Love Island.

Mike Catalana (38:57)

Oh, please. I hear you guys talking about it. They. You discuss it like you're breaking down the game.

Jenna Cottrell (39:02)

Yeah, I love it.

Mike Catalana (39:03)

Yeah.

Jenna Cottrell (39:04)

We'll talk all about it in the newsroom.

Mike Catalana (39:05)

Yeah.

Jenna Cottrell (39:06)

Okay. All right. Please be sure to, like, comment, subscribe and share. As we get ready for training camp, we're gonna have so much content. All of the content. Will be sure to get the notification on as well. The bell. Also reminder, if you can't always watch the videos. We have the Buffalo plus podcast available wherever you find your podcast. We'll also have our updates there as well.

Mike Catalana (39:28)

And Hard Knocks, we will be doing our show reviews. I think that'll be fun.

Jenna Cottrell (39:34)

We're going to be watching Hard Knocks and breaking down our review of it. We also are trying to be more active on our social media. In terms of our Instagram, it's Buffalo Plus. Our Tik Tok, which is Buffalo plus underscore.

Mike Catalana (39:45)

I'm a big hit on Tik Tok.

Jenna Cottrell (39:46)

Also. Do you have a Tik Tok? Your own personal Tik Tok?

Mike Catalana (39:48)

I do, but I didn't use. I usually just go on ours.

Jenna Cottrell (39:51)

I am also trying to be on Tik Tok. So it's Jenna Cottrell. Dan is also on Tik Tok. I believe it's just Dan Fates. But yeah, follow us on every platform and we would really appreciate that. So I think this is going to be a really big year for the Bills and I think this is going to be a really big year for Buffalo Plus. So thank you so much for joining and following along. You know how much we appreciate it. Once again, please be sure to, like, comment, subscribe and share. We will catch you next time here on the Buffalo plus channel. For Mike Catalana and Dan Fates on who's not here, I am Jenna Cottrell. Thank you so much for watching. We'll catch you next time here on Buffalo plus, presented by Connors and Ferris. Buffalo plus, your interactive look at the week in football brought to you by Connors and Ferris.