Bills turn to Allen and Diggs to save them in Detroit

Summary

---

Buffalo Plus Podcast — Episode Summary

Episode Title: Bills turn to Allen and Diggs to save them in Detroit
Date: November 25, 2022
Hosts: Mike Catalana, Dan Fetes

---

Overview

In this road edition of the Buffalo Plus podcast, Mike Catalana and Dan Fetes break down the Buffalo Bills’ last-second Thanksgiving victory over the Detroit Lions. The team, fresh off a challenging five-day stretch and reeling from key injuries, leaned on its offensive superstars, Josh Allen and Stefon Diggs, to escape Detroit with a critical win. The episode covers the in-game drama, postgame reactions, injury concerns, and what the victory signals about the state of the Bills as they face the crucial division stretch ahead.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: A Gritty, Emotional Win

• The Bills had their “backs against the ropes,” facing a surging Lions team and a raucous Detroit crowd (02:14).
  • Dan Fetes: “Probably a top 10 game that I’ve ever been in. The Bills were backed up in a hostile environment...it was the biggest crowd they’ve had since 2011.”
• The offense struggled much of the game, but Allen and Diggs took over in the clutch.

2. Clutch Drive: Allen & Diggs Deliver

• The hosts spotlight the pivotal fourth-quarter drive starting deep in Bills territory with the score in the balance (02:49–06:05):
  • Mike Catalana highlights Allen’s touch pass to Dawson Knox—a “huge play for them offensively.”
  • Allen’s progression as a passer is noted—the ability to throw with “touch and feel” rather than just a cannon arm.
• The offense benefited from a timely roughing-the-passer penalty, helping sustain the drive (04:09):
  • Mike Catalana: “It was late, and you can't do that ... in 2022, that's a roughing the passer call.”
• Diggs scored the critical touchdown, followed by an eruption of sideline emotion:
  • Dan Fetes (on Diggs): “Full-on emotion coming out...told [Josh], ‘I told you, I got you.’” (05:49)

3. Lions Tie, Bills Respond: The 23 Seconds Drive

• After the Lions tie it up, Bass’s missed extra point leaves the game tied—“huge difference,” per Catalana.
• 23 seconds left: Do the Bills kneel or attack?
  • Mike Catalana: “Nothing ever will replace the 13 seconds in Kansas City … [but] it should reinforce to everybody it’s never over.” (06:37)
• The Bills attack:
  • Allen hits Diggs for a chunk play over the middle: “It is a next level—maybe three people on the planet make that throw. Mahomes, Allen, and maybe Herbert.” — Dan Fetes (08:09)
  • Mike Catalana on Allen’s throw: “A top five throw of Josh Allen’s career.” (08:58)
• Allen’s rushing sets up Tyler Bass for redemption—and the kicker drills the game-winner:
  • Dan Fetes: “Redemption… to be able to flush it [the earlier miss] … I think shows a lot about who he is as a kicker.” (10:11)

4. Locker Room & Coaching Reaction

• Postgame, Allen admits he's “not 100%”—injury is real, but he’s fighting through (10:41).
• Sean McDermott’s postgame was uncharacteristically emotional:
  • Mike Catalana: “He is fired up. Yelling about two games, five days, dealt with the snow… a bit of relief.”

5. Injury Roundup (12:12–18:30)

• Von Miller (knee): Still awaiting MRI, but early reports are “just a sprain,” offering hope. Comparison to last year’s Trey White injury demonstrates how precarious Bills’ fortunes can be.
• Offensive line depleted: played without Mitch Morse and Deion Dawkins. Spencer Brown and Roger Saffold were the only starters at their usual positions; line play struggled accordingly.
• Tre’Davious White returned in a limited “pitch count” role (15 snaps), providing an emotional lift even if his impact was limited:
  • Dan Fetes (on White): “They needed Trey back for the emotional boost… Jordan Poyer talks about it after the game that he was glowing…”

6. Defense: Missing Pieces, Rising to the Challenge

• The defense felt the absences of Von Miller, Greg Rousseau, and Tremaine Edmunds.
• Ed Oliver’s performance up the middle was “a beast,” per Catalana.
• Detroit’s Amon-Ra St. Brown “just kept making plays.”
• Backup LB A.J. Klein made contributions, but overall tackling was an issue.

7. Big Picture: Bills at 8–3, Strengths and Concerns

• Despite the win, the hosts express concerns about the offense’s clunky nature and Dorsey’s playcalling:
  • Dan Fetes: “Nothing that has come easy with this offense for the last month.” (24:39)
  • Mike Catalana: “[Ken] Dorsey’s got to find another gear… you got to come up with something different to get guys open to help Josh out.”
• Red zone woes: The now-predictable slant to Diggs led to an interception, as defenses are keying on it.
  • Dan Fetes: “Teams have figured it out the last three to five games, but they keep going to it… this offense doesn’t have anything to hang their hat on.” (27:20)
• Perspective: These wins matter—divisional games, and against good teams—but the Bills must improve before the playoffs.
  • Mike Catalana: "You gotta win...these wins keep you alive for the division. Now they gotta get better." (27:52–29:50)

8. Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Sometimes you need your studs to just step up and carry the team and say, guys, I got you.” — Dan Fetes (30:06)
• On comparing to Steph/Klay: “Allen and Diggs knocked down big threes.” — Mike Catalana (30:31)
• Broad appreciation for “reasons, not excuses”—recognizing valid adversity amid high expectations.

---

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On Allen’s throw at game’s end:
  “Maybe three people on the planet make that throw. Mahomes, Allen, and maybe Herbert.”
  — Dan Fetes (08:09)

• On big players in big moments:
  “Sometimes you need your studs to just step up and carry the team and say, guys, I got you.”
  — Dan Fetes (30:06)

• On team resilience:
  “Good teams find a way to win.”
  — Dan Fetes (29:54)

• On O-line struggles:
  “Your best two linemen are Deion [Dawkins] and Mitch [Morse]—and they’re both out.”
  — Mike Catalana (20:24)

• Sean McDermott’s emotions postgame:
  "He is emotional. He is fired up. He's yelling about two games, five days, dealt with the snow. Like you see Sean...that was a...filled with excitement but also a bit of relief." — Mike Catalana (11:23)

• On defensive issues:
  "They picked on [Dane Jackson]...Benford is obviously their next choice. Elam is coming back...a healthy Tre’Davious White makes them all better." — Mike Catalana (17:52)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:19 | Setting up Allen & Diggs as game saviors | | 02:03 | In-stadium environment and crowd atmosphere | | 02:49 | Allen's throw to Dawson Knox; importance of that play | | 04:00 | Roughing the passer penalty and its significance | | 05:41 | Diggs’ emotional outburst after the key touchdown | | 06:37 | Lions tie, Bass misses extra point; tension ratchets up | | 08:09 | Allen-to-Diggs bomb in final seconds; “three people" quote | | 09:42 | Tyler Bass redemption, game-winning field goal | | 10:41 | Josh Allen postgame on elbow injury; McDermott’s reaction | | 12:12 | Impact of injuries, focus on Von Miller, Dawkins, Morse | | 15:53 | Trey White limited return; player emotional boost | | 20:24 | O-line woes and cascading positional issues | | 23:17 | Defensive standouts and issues (Ed Oliver, missed tackles) | | 24:39 | State of the offense, Ken Dorsey playcalling concerns | | 27:20 | Red zone issues, slant to Diggs intercepted | | 29:54 | Perspective on “ugly” wins | | 30:31 | Basketball analogy: Allen/Diggs deliver “big threes” |

---

Final Thoughts & Tone

The hosts close by emphasizing the importance of stacking wins, even if they aren’t pretty. The Bills are mentally and physically battered but are still finding a way, mainly through the star power of Allen and Diggs. Listeners get both in-depth Xs and Os as well as lighter moments (like Dan’s “man purse” border crossing story) that fit the easy rapport and down-to-earth, insider tone the podcast is known for.

---

For the full episode and more analysis, subscribe to Buffalo Plus on YouTube.

Transcript

[Dan Fates]

Foreign.

[Mike Catalano]

Everybody, welcome back to the Buffalo plus podcast. Please make sure to like to comment to subscribe. We appreciate it. Any chance you get, tell somebody about this podcast. Remember the morning after every Bill's game. Mike Catalano along with Dan Fates. Dan, let's explain.

[Dan Fates]

Happy Thanksgiving.

[Mike Catalano]

Yes. Where we're going.

[Dan Fates]

We are driving back.

[Mike Catalano]

We are driving back from Detroit and if you don't know this, the way to drive back to Western New York from Detroit, if you can, is to go through the wonderful country of Canada.

[Dan Fates]

Oh, Canada.

[Mike Catalano]

Yes.

[Dan Fates]

And maybe if you stay till the end, there's the good story of how we got in back into the States.

[Mike Catalano]

Yes, we can tell that one. Let's certainly now tell the story of what happened in this game. So let's put it bluntly. Bills were in trouble. They needed to get bailed out. And I think their two biggest stars, certainly their biggest star and their other big star on offense, just bailed them out of this game.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, it's just one of those times where Josh Allen just looked at Stephon Diggs and said, you know, we talk a lot about times that Josh forces things. He had to force the ball to Stevon Diggs. It was just one of those scenarios where those two guys were bigger than their 1/11th and they needed to play like it. They played like stars in big moments because it wasn't pretty. We can get to all that and we can break down where they are and how we see this team moving forward. But that was just a game. You just had to figure out how to get a win.

[Mike Catalano]

So let's go to the moment where the Bills are down in the game in the fourth and they have the ball at their own 10 yard line and it is loud in fourth field.

[Dan Fates]

Very.

[Mike Catalano]

So you're on the field. Tell everybody what the atmosphere was like in that game at that moment on the road against a hungry young team that thinks getting better.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalano]

What was that like at that point?

[Dan Fates]

I thought it was a great atmosphere. Probably a top 10 game that I'll. That I've ever been in the sense of Lions had won three in a row. Had the Bills up against the ropes they expect. I think the Crowd was over 66,000. It was one of their biggest crowds. It was the biggest crowd they've had since 2011. And it wasn't a ton of Bills fans. Like it was a hostile environment that the Bills were backed up in. And I kept tweeting like this place is loud. And then another play would go by and go, it's getting louder. Like it Was just that type of atmosphere.

[Mike Catalano]

Yeah. So they get the ball deep in their own territory. And Josh had had some struggles, you know, Tony Romo, I guess, kept talking about the injury to the elbow and all those things. And then he made a play that I don't want to see forgotten. But on that drive, he threw a beautiful ball down. I guess it would be the right sideline to Dawson Knox. He dropped it in the bucket there. Knox made a play. I thought that was a huge play for them offensively.

[Dan Fates]

And it just again shows. Like you talk about dropping the bucket. It's the touch and the feel that. That always that. That I don't ever take for granted. Because when he. Josh came into league, he only had the fastball that he didn't have that touch and feel. And. And to be able to change the trajectory of his balls into fine throwing lanes. And it was a throw. And again, I think Knox only had two catches on the day, but that was a huge one.

[Mike Catalano]

Yeah. They needed Knox to help with blocking. Offensive line, obviously a big issue in this one. So they keep driving down the field. And they ran it a few times too. They were moving it. Allen ran the ball a few times. Then they got a call. The rough in the quarterback call, which was a big one for them at that time. What'd you think of the call?

[Dan Fates]

I didn't see the call, so I went back to the throw. Cause it was a three on the sidelines to Stefan Diggs, who was ruled out of bounds.

[Mike Catalano]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

So that was like right in front of my lap.

[Mike Catalano]

It was late. The defender was late. And he sort of tossed Josh over. I'll put it to you this way. In 2022, that's a rough in the passer call. I mean, go back 85.

[Dan Fates]

Ron Jaworski would get suplexed.

[Mike Catalano]

He would. Poor Jaws. I can't believe he doesn't flinch even when the name Lawrence Taylor comes up. The things that used to get done to that. Now I'm not doing this whole thing with these guys, like put flags on them and it's whatever, blah, blah, blah. It's a tough game played by tough people. But I would say it wasn't the worst hit Josh has ever taken. It was late and you can't do that. They know it. He sort of flipped them over. So they get that call and then they move down. But like you said, in the moment when he needs the touchdown, who's he go to?

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, and it's if I'm the lines, I also know he's going to him. But they were just on one of those connections, in one of those same vibes, but. And they're also just so intense, both of them. A lot of frustration on the sidelines, a lot of questioning. Not, you know, not in a meat. Like, not in a diva way or anything like that. Like, not that there were tempers flaring on the sidelines, but there was a lot of sense of, like, what is going on? Like, why can't we get a first down when we need one? Why can't, you know, why isn't this passing game working? What are these things going? And you have Stefan Diggs, who's very intense. You have Josh Allen, who's intense. And it was just one of those things. It was like, they're just not going to stop us. We're going to tell you what's coming and you still can't stop it.

[Mike Catalano]

Well, they didn't stop it. They scored the touchdown. And you're thinking, all right, Tyler Bask Bass misses the extra point in a dome.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. Where he made six field goals five days earlier. I wasn't filming because I was shooting the. Stefan Diggs was just so fired up on the sidelines after the touchdown. He went right in front of Josh Allen, told him, I told you, I got you all these things. Full on emotion coming out.

[Mike Catalano]

Yeah. When the emotion changes. Because now instead of it being a four point game, it's a three point game. Huge difference. Because automatically that adds or subtracts 30 yards that you have to worry about. I mean, once they get to the 40, you figure a team can. Or 30 team can kick a field goal.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalano]

And so the Lions drive down, the Bills, defense tightens up enough and they force the field goal. And he makes the field goal looking like it was going to go wide. Who did you say you were looking at?

[Dan Fates]

Poyer put his hands up. Poyer started to celebrate.

[Mike Catalano]

He thought he had missed it, so. But he doesn't. So he makes it. So now we go back to it. Kickoff to the bills, 23 seconds left, then kick it deep. Look, let's say this. Nothing ever will replace the 13 seconds in Kansas City because it's different. And this was not against the Chiefs in a playoff game. And this was 23 seconds, not 13. But it should reinforce to everybody it's never over like it's. And the Bills got the ball, kicked it into the end zone. So you're thinking, all right, are they going to take. Yep. Right away you knew they were going to take a shot with all the issues they had Problems on the O line.

[Dan Fates]

I did. I did have that thought for a.

[Mike Catalano]

Second that they were going to.

[Dan Fates]

Just to kneel on it.

[Mike Catalano]

Yeah. Or they were going to do something.

[Dan Fates]

You know, look conservative.

[Mike Catalano]

You can't throw a pick at midfield here.

[Dan Fates]

That's. That was what was going through my head.

[Mike Catalano]

Right. But you know what? You got Josh Allen and Stephon Diggs. If you throw it short or take a knee, the Lions are going, yes, because they didn't do that. They took a shot. And I think it's a combination pass and catch. That is one of the biggest regular season plays we've seen out of this group of Bills. I'm not saying this game is that big. I'm saying is in that moment when you can steal the game right there and win it. He hits Diggs. Diggs makes. It was really good defense.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalano]

I mean, the guy hits him right as Diggs catches it. He holds onto it, hits the ground, calls the timeout like it was a fantastic play.

[Dan Fates]

Maybe. And again, at the time, the throws coming down the field towards me, I thought it was a really good throw. Like, I was like, wow, like, what a big chunk play. That's exactly what they needed. And then I saw the reverse camera angle after the game. The camera angle from behind Josh. It's an unreal throw. It is a next level. Maybe three people on the planet make that throw. Mahomes, Allen, and maybe Herbert.

[Mike Catalano]

Yeah, I'm stopping to put Herbert in any of these lists. There's Mahomes and Allen. I know Herbert can make some throws until they start doing something. He doesn't earn his place there. He makes a bunch of throws in the darkness. That. That is Charger games that end up just being. I'm talking about. You're right. Physically, he's got the arm to do it, but like these guys, it was.

[Dan Fates]

A top five throw of Josh Allen's career.

[Mike Catalano]

I gotta tell you. Look, right now, Mahomes is the mvp. He is. He's played great. I think he's going to win it at the moment. Things can change. And we've had Josh chasing Mahomes over the last few years. Then it felt like they were about even. Mahomes is ahead of him a little bit. These last two drives. Big Mahomes, like, for Allen.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalano]

And that's. That's the gold standard. Yeah, it is. Mahomes has been that guy. He's been great. He did it to the Chargers the other day, so puts him in position. Love that they had the timeouts. Think about it. They Got to run. They start with 23 seconds. They were in field goal range. Basically off the pass.

[Dan Fates]

Yep.

[Mike Catalano]

And then Josh gave him a better spot. And a better spot.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalano]

And Bass.

[Dan Fates]

Bass, they were in range after the digs. Catch.

[Mike Catalano]

Yeah. Well, he felt like he could try it.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalano]

And then they got him in a better spot. They used very. I thought right away, don't throw it, run it. You've got the timeouts. And they did. And they got him in position. And I thought for Bass, who's been a really good kicker.

[Dan Fates]

Yep.

[Mike Catalano]

To have that chance right after he had the miss on a field on an extra point to go, knock it through, give him the win. That's huge for him too.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. Redemption. I mean, your miss single handedly, almost could have lost the game. You're. You're making such a point and. But to be able to flush it, whether you talk about it, you know, the expression of a golfer just kind of forgetting that swing. Moving on. Josh always talks about it. You know, five second rule. Moving on. It's easier said than done. And for Bass in that situation, I think shows a lot about who he is as a kicker and how much his teammates can depend on him.

[Mike Catalano]

You know what I like, though? After the game, we got to talk to the coaches and players and you know, Josh Allen was Josh. After the game he did. He was asked about his injury and he basically. Come on. He admitted he's hurt. He said nobody's 100%. He's not 100%. He's not close to it now. Hopefully with a little bit of time, I'd like to see him limit his throwing and practice for a little while. I think they've done that. Sean McDermott said something I think is totally accurate. All the games are the same. They're just wins. We just pile them. You know, you try to win them. Right. Cause he didn't show that extra emotion, did he?

[Dan Fates]

Totally. No, Mike, that was. This is just another game. It's just like any of the other ones.

[Mike Catalano]

8 Before him go on the Bills, whether it's Twitter or on their site, because they're allowed, obviously, it's the Bills photographers. Those guys do a great job. They're shooting video of the Bills post game. When Sean McDermott is talking to the team and handing out game balls and all that stuff, he is emotional. He is fired up. He's yelling about two games, five days, dealt with the snow. Like you see Sean, he's always more like, all right, men, good job, men. Way to come through. He does his clapping not this one. Yeah, that was a. Filled with excitement but also a bit of relief. And it just all came out. I thought it was kind of cool to see.

[Dan Fates]

Well, and like I said, and obviously we'll get into some of the injuries, but just all the other things, whether it was Von Miller going down, not having Mitch Morris, Deon Dawkins going down, all of those things. What do you always talk about, Mike? It's reasons, not excuses.

[Mike Catalano]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Like they had a lot of reasons that they were struggling on offense. One of them is Ken Dorsey. We can get to that a little bit. But just the fact of you found a way, and I think you've made a great point is where, you know, we were recapping the game and things like that before we started recording was just the fact of like the hindsight wins.

[Mike Catalano]

I always think about this. You. You look back, right? Especially like this week and you go, oh my God, they didn't play great. They barely beat Detroit. They beat, you know, the Browns, who are not a good team. Guess what? If they play great in Foxborough next week or then the jets game and they win and they look great, nobody's gonna care that they didn't look good in these games. You had to win the game. So when you look at the standings, you go, oh, that's a win. Yes. You want to play better, you need to play better if you're going to win and win in the playoffs. But it's a hindsight win. When you look back and you go, how many wins? Just like that jets loss just stings more than any of them because it's a division loss. The Dolphins game stings. They had all those reasons to lose those games, but they still needed to find a way and they didn't get it done. These games aren't as important in the standings because they're not in the division, but they needed the victories.

[Dan Fates]

But it's funny too, in hindsight, you're going to talk about that like there'll be one or two things that you will stand out about about the game. And you, you may forget other parts. Like I think about the Miami game, I think of the Heat and them failing in the red zone. Like that's just kind of where it is this game. I'll think about Tyler Bass and Josh Allen s funding. Like, I will forget about how difficult the offense looked when I look back at this game at the end of the. At the end of the season.

[Mike Catalano]

Yeah, I'm with you on that. It ended up being a rough, rough day that ended With Spectacular Fashion on the last couple of drives to figure out a way to get it done. So all that was good. You mentioned the injuries. Let's talk about them a little bit. Look, they're playing without Von Miller now. He's going to be out for a while. We don't know yet. The initial reports were a sprained knee. I think they'd be thrilled if that's what it is. Because that means he's coming back, correct? This year. Maybe late in the year. I don't know. Sometimes they say four to six. You just have to be careful. Hopefully that's the case. He's got to get the MRI as we're recording this. You know, they're back in Buffalo. He'll get an mri. They'll get the results. The doctors, at least from the reports, believe that's the case. They need him back for the playoffs. They need to get Russo back on the field.

[Dan Fates]

I think Ian Radbourne was saying that the team has hope, that it is just a spray. So there is encouraging news. And. And this is, you know, brought back a little bit of flashbacks to Thanksgiving of last year when we were leaving the stadium at the Superdome. We had heard the team is fearing.

[Mike Catalano]

The worst about Trey White.

[Dan Fates]

About Trey White and that this, his season was going to be over and he had torn his acl. So just like what I always said when Josh Allen's injury came up and everybody's like, oh, no, I'm hearing this, I'm hearing this. Those. Those reports from the team that kind of get, you know, know, sent out are usually when things are really bad is. You hear, okay, this is happening. So for the. Again, for another sign of, hey, they're thinking it's just his brain. They still have to do some more tests. Is encouraging sign for me as we're sitting here recording this.

[Mike Catalano]

If people don't know, most of this information comes from the agents. Yeah, the national guys do a very good job. They're tied in with the agents. The agents especially. Encouraging news, you know, if they got their guy. Like, I'm not saying Von's agent is the one, but there's no reason for the Bill's trainers.

[Dan Fates]

Correct.

[Mike Catalano]

Or, you know, medical people to be saying this, but you see all of them get similar information, so they hope that's the case. Now, we're going to get back to some of the other stuff, but you mentioned Trey from a year ago. I think this was strange, but I understand it, but I've never seen it before. He was on a pitch Count. And sometimes when you hear that, I thought, well, maybe he's only going to play every third series and he's going to play. No, they got him out there for two series and got him off the field. And Dan, I've never seen a team use a important, basically middle of the season, regular season game, use a roster spot and know you're only going to play a player. He played 15 snaps.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. I love it.

[Mike Catalano]

And then they sat him down. That is stunning to me that they used a real game and a real roster spot. I understand why they did it, because Trey White and they want him back. But I've never seen a team do it.

[Dan Fates]

We talk about there's only 53 guys that can dress. If you don't understand how important all 53 players are, I don't know how to have that conversation. But just there's not enough guys and everyone is so, so important. So to have a player and to activate them and. And to put him on the roster when he's only going to play 15 plays, I think is a little strange.

[Mike Catalano]

It is. But now, again, they were nicked up in a bunch of other areas. And maybe their thought was, we can get Trey out there, get some snaps out of him, see where he is. And, you know, other guys, they treated.

[Dan Fates]

Like it was a preseason game.

[Mike Catalano]

They did. Now, look, Dane Jackson played every snap and he got tortured in the game.

[Dan Fates]

Yep.

[Mike Catalano]

He really did. They picked on him. And it's funny. Benford is obviously their next choice. Elam is coming back from his injury. He played a limited amount, not as much.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalano]

But a healthy Trae White makes them all better. It just does. If he comes back and maybe next week, you know, he's. He can play more. Maybe he's up to half the game. I don't know what they. Maybe he's 35, 40 snaps. They don't want to just throw him out there for 70 snaps, but I think that would be a plus. I just have never seen a team do that in a regular season, and.

[Dan Fates]

I always been saying it for the last few weeks, is that they needed Trey back for the emotional boost that it's like you're getting some of that today. And I think they did.

[Mike Catalano]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

And I really do. I really. Jordan Poyer talks about it after the game that he was glowing, that he just. He goes, I can't believe it.

[Mike Catalano]

Because I think all the players knew exactly what the plan was.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Mike Catalano]

It wasn't like they were standing there going, why's Trey.

[Dan Fates]

Why isn't he on the field, it wasn't a setback. This is what designed. But he said, you know, just so funny to be calling. He goes, he was so excited to be calling plays and being like, wow, two sevens back and I'm giving him checks. He goes, that was awesome. So I think it did provide that boost again. I think if they were, you know, you lose, you know you're already down two defensive ends. You lose. Vaughn, numbers are important. And every single game, every single player has responsibilities. And they may be more than what you realize just sitting at home.

[Mike Catalano]

All right? Reasons, not excuses. The offensive line was a mess. You got Mitch Morris out, so now you got Bates moving from guard to center. So now you're weaker at center, though Bates is tough. And he goes in there and plays. I heard him talking to the D tackle. I'm trying to remember his name for the Lions afterward. And they met up in the tunnel. I was just happened to be standing there, and he goes, he says. He goes, man, you're a big blah, blah, blah. And they were laughing. He goes, you were on me the whole game. And the other guy laughed. I mean, these are big human beings fighting each other the whole game. Bates is a tough player. I like him on the field, but again, he's not the center that Mitch Morris is. Correct. So then Greg Van Roten's going to play guard. Now you're worse at guard. You just are. That's dropping that position. And then Deion Dawkins goes out. So now David Quesenberry is now your left tackle.

[Dan Fates]

So you.

[Mike Catalano]

Your best two linemen are Deion and Mitch.

[Dan Fates]

And they're both out.

[Mike Catalano]

They're out. You are weaker.

[Dan Fates]

You have two backups, and you're two.

[Mike Catalano]

Weakest starters, I think have been Spencer Brown and Roger Saffold. That's my opinion. I don't know what Pro Football Focus says. And they were your only guys playing in their regular spot.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, for me, it's Saffold's been the most disappointing. And then a pretty large cap, and then I would say Spencer Brown. So I'm with you on that. Yeah. And I think they tried a few quick passes. They couldn't run the ball really all that successfully. Once taken, Deion kind of went out. I think they kind of didn't really get too much going in the second half on the ground game. Besides Josh.

[Mike Catalano]

Yeah, it was interesting. Deion grabbed his helmet. I thought maybe he was going to come back. I tweeted it out that we saw him there, and then he was in good spirits.

[Dan Fates]

He pulled me Aside, I didn't tell you this. And he was pointing. I was filming him to get a shot of him, and he's pointing to something in the stand saying, give me a paper. Give me paper. I'm like, what is he doing?

[Mike Catalano]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

I'm like, dion, you shouldn't be, like, talking to fans. Like, it's the middle of this game. And it was the guy that's on the cart camera that rolls up and down the sidelines. That is the TV broadcast. It's the main broadcast camera. And Deon then grabs me and goes, ask him why he has those papers. And they have papers, and they're the players. Headshots.

[Mike Catalano]

Oh, yeah. Cause they don't know every player, right?

[Dan Fates]

So when the producer says, hey, I need a shot of Mitch Morris, the guy can look and say, where's Mitch Morris? Okay, he's ball guy, beard.

[Mike Catalano]

Well, especially when he's not in uniform. Correct, Right.

[Dan Fates]

So it was. They're not. They don't have their numbers or anything like that. So he goes. So I told Dion that. And he's like, oh. So again, so that Dion told, like, the trainer next to him, and they all had a good laugh. So again, seems like Dion's in good spirits. It wasn't like he, you know, he didn't go back in the locker room.

[Mike Catalano]

He. Walking boot, right? We see a lot of walking boots. That's like, a given. Yes, that's a given. It's like Matt Beauvais was in a walking boot. Channel seven. He's fine now.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, he's fine.

[Mike Catalano]

He's coming back. So we don't know for next week which of that group is coming back, but now we're done with injuries. I want to highlight a few guys. Ed Oliver loves. Thanksgiving was a beast out there. Made big plays. Love, love Ed. Getting that press up the middle, especially when Von's not in the game. Rousseau's not in the game. I mean, they needed it.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, Sean said it. I think Detroit has two really good tackles. Their guards were out, Their two starting guards were out. So you needed to get pressure up the middle. It has been something that obviously teams always want to get, but this was a time where you talked about how Josh and Steph just had to step up. It was equally the same on the other side, where you don't have Tremaine Edmonds, you don't have Von Miller. You know what I mean? It's like somebody's got to step up and just like, you need to save these cornerbacks who are getting roasted. We need you to make some plays.

[Mike Catalano]

I love St. Brown stud. That kid is a player and he.

[Dan Fates]

Has Jared Goff throwing to him like. Like this isn't some top 10 passing offense. It's Jared Goff.

[Mike Catalano]

He threw some nice balls today.

[Dan Fates]

I agree, and I think he's a nice quarterback, but, man, get him. Get him with a real offense.

[Mike Catalano]

Oh, man. Love that kid. You know, I don't think Detroit's giving him up anytime soon. Okay, so in that case, if they can get some of these back. They're playing without Tremaine Edmonds. They absolutely missed him. I like AJ Klein is a gamer. He's out there. He's had limited practice. He's on the team, made a couple of plays for them, had a tackle behind the line. But they missed some tackles in this game. They just missed them. And I think demar Hamlin had one again along the sidelines when they ended up taking the lead. You got to make sure you don't give up that extra 15, 20 yards. You just got to get that guy out sooner. So they had to miss tackles. Sean talks about fundamentals. They haven't practiced. That does impact players. It absolutely does. But again, reasons, not excuses. They found a way to get it done. All right, so, Dan, I want to ask you this. Now we're looking at them and going, they're 8 and 3. They're 8 and 3.

[Dan Fates]

Don't have to apologize for it.

[Mike Catalano]

How do you feel about them at 8 and 3?

[Dan Fates]

Not great in the sense of this is a team that used to instill fear in opposing defenses. And I know people are saying, well, Dan's an idiot. They average 28 points a game. It doesn't feel the same. And you can look at the box scores and say, okay, we're scoring points. What do you mean? We're winning right there. It doesn't feel the same. Watch the game. I know what Josh Allen's box. I know he finished with 330something yards passing. It doesn't feel easy. There's nothing that has come easy with this offense for the last month.

[Mike Catalano]

Plus, now there's reasons for that, issues with the offensive line and all. But I gotta say, and this is not. Not just like, it's all. But Ken Dorsey's got to find another gear. He's got to find, you know, there's something about being that guy, the play caller. And there's one thing about the idea of the continuity. He's been the quarterback's coach. He's been there. Guess what? He wasn't calling the plays Nope. And it's adjustments in a game. It's adjustments week to week. It's adjustments during the year when the defense seems to know what your tendency are. You got to come up with something different to get guys open to help Josh out a little bit more. I just haven't seen it.

[Dan Fates]

No. And there have been. I talked about it. I did a vlog on the Buffalo Plus YouTube channel about it. Like, who's more to blame? Because Josh seems to be forcing things, but I think he's forcing things, as we saw over the last two or three weeks, because there's nothing open. And Josh is not going to be this guy that wants to throw the ball away 15 times.

[Mike Catalano]

He.

[Dan Fates]

He's still going to try and fit the ball into tight windows, unfortunately.

[Mike Catalano]

What about the red zone interception?

[Dan Fates]

So this is another one, too. Like, it's a. It's a slant to Stefan Diggs. And that has been something they have run all season long. And teams have figured it out the last three to five games, but they keep going to it. So, yeah, it's a great play that the pass is deflected and that a linebacker is right there for the interception. It's a kind of a fluky play, but the defense knew it was coming. And that's what's concerning to me because, Mike, to me, this offense doesn't have anything to hang their hat on. And the comparison I can say that to is when the. When the Vikings beat the Bills. The Vikings, oh, they're eight and one. All these things. They are. That Justin Jefferson catch, you can't depend on it week in and week out to be in a fourth and 18 situation. So what you can depend on is short passing game, running the ball screen games. But what do the Bills do out of any of those that are good? That's my fear.

[Mike Catalano]

Yeah, that's when I say that. So they have Josh Allen who can bail you out at any moment, but you can't depend on that. It is. And it's exhausting to him. They need something else. They can get that together. I mean, last year, I agree. Seven and six and they were struggling and they found a way and they ran it better. The line played better. And then Josh just not every game. But the Atlanta game, he was terrible in that Atlanta game. But the rest of them, he got well. And the New England game, but there was a reason. I mean, that was the game. The wind was blowing.

[Dan Fates]

Correct.

[Mike Catalano]

You know, and all that. And then he was great in the playoffs. So it can come. I don't feel Great about the way they're playing. And take this for the way I mean it. I don't care at the moment how they're playing. Meaning you gotta win. You gotta figure out a way to win. These last two games are the perfect example of that. If they play great the next two weeks. Right. And you beat the Patriots and you beat the jets, and you look really good doing it. It's awesome. You know what else is good? That you won these two games. So in hindsight, those are two wins. Wouldn't they want that jets and Dolphins game back? They could have, if not should have, won both of those. The Vikings game, they gave away all three of their losses. They had absolutely every chance to win, and they didn't get it done. So they're still feeling that. That's why the Dolphins have the tiebreaker on them. That's why right now they're behind the Chiefs instead of even with them with the tiebreaker. So all the other stuff has to happen. But right now, these wins keep you alive for the division. Not that it would have been gone, but if you lost these two games, not that they were going to lose that Browns game, even these, you cannot lose them. Yeah, they won them. Now they got to. Now they got to get better. I want to see them play better. Certainly when I say it doesn't matter. I tell you all the time, it's win or panic. That's the NFL. Yep. You know, everybody gets so excited. You know, when a team looks great, that's great. I made the example of the Cowboys. They choked away that Green Bay game. They're up 14 in the fourth quarter at home. People are crushing them. The next week, they win 43. Now they're super bowl champs. Well, they look great, and they may be really good, but it's going to crush them that they lost that game to the Packers. Even if they would have just held on. That's what you got to do in the NFL. Find a way to win and then fix the problems. So I'm not looking at like, oh, they're fine. No, they got to work on a lot of stuff.

[Dan Fates]

But I will say this. And you know, good teams find a way to win.

[Mike Catalano]

Yep.

[Dan Fates]

And today, for what seemingly felt like 55 minutes, nothing came easy. Nothing came easy to this Bill's. This Bill's offense. And they found a way.

[Mike Catalano]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

And it was pretty much on the backs of two guys. But that's sometimes what you need. Sometimes you need your studs to just step up and carry the team and say, guys, I Got you.

[Mike Catalano]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

And that's what happened. So you chalk that up. You got two wins in five days in brutal circumstances. And you don't have to apologize to anybody for. For those games being maybe when we look back, the box score being closer than what they were because they're W's.

[Mike Catalano]

Yep. And you know what? The warriors can go into a game with a bunch of game plans, you know, and they're going to try to get this guy going and Draymond this. And guess what? They win the game because Steph and. And Clay just knocked down ridiculous threes. Well, today Allen and Diggs knocked down big threes.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, that's a great point.

[Mike Catalano]

Everything else has gone wrong. How about we knock some shots in? And in this case, things were going wrong on the road and the big guys came through. We always talk about the food. It's Thanksgiving Day. This is my third year of four going on Thanksgiving.

[Dan Fates]

I've. I tweeted at Commissioner Goodell, I would like to spend next year with our families.

[Mike Catalano]

Yeah, we're a little done with Thanksgiving.

[Dan Fates]

We're all good.

[Mike Catalano]

Yeah, I mean, it's. It's fun, you know, for our Buffalo plus family, but we got a lot of time together. We could take Thanksgiving. Yeah. So Dallas, you guys know if anybody knows me, despise the Cowboys. Everything they're about. They are elite in the press box, food spread and on Thanksgiving. Ridiculous. Jerry goes all in on that. It was phenomenal. Phenomenal. Last year we were in New Orleans. It was lame. They don't do Thanksgiving. I don't want to get. This is a city known for its food was awful and it was late. And Dan couldn't eat anything upstairs because it was getting too close to game time. And he actually had a boxed sandwich. Crappy sandwich. Dinner for Thanksgiving. Wasn't even turkey.

[Dan Fates]

Nope. This year. This year we got. We little. Obviously Detroit knows how to do Thanksgiving. That was fine.

[Mike Catalano]

It was. It was a nice.

[Dan Fates]

It was fine.

[Mike Catalano]

It was eight. It was like, you know, a buffet.

[Dan Fates]

Turkey buffet.

[Mike Catalano]

Like. Like if. If you went. I don't know if there's places that you go or. Yeah, it was kind of one of the. And first of all, I like Detroit cuz I. The people are so nice.

[Dan Fates]

Love Detroit.

[Mike Catalano]

People working in the stadium. So nice. And we were there twice.

[Dan Fates]

Underrated city.

[Mike Catalano]

But Dan got to come up in the lofty heights of the press box and eat. They had pumpkin pie. Do you have any pumpkin pie?

[Dan Fates]

No, I'd. Pecan.

[Mike Catalano]

Oh, pecan. Yeah. I'm not a big. I'm not a big pumpkin pie guy myself.

[Dan Fates]

What about pecan?

[Mike Catalano]

Not really. If I'm gonna go pie, you're gonna be apple.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalano]

Or. Yeah, it's gonna be apple. I'm not. It's not. Not my top of the list. But that was fine. But, you know, they did that. So that was fine. But it was nice. It was nice that you were able to share in that. Because downstairs. Nada. Right?

[Dan Fates]

Nada.

[Mike Catalano]

I mean, like, nothing. There was coffee, right?

[Dan Fates]

There was coffee.

[Mike Catalano]

It's great.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. And I think I still remember when I came and I was like, hey, I got these donuts.

[Mike Catalano]

Yeah, I think.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. I think those were for the CBS crew.

[Mike Catalano]

By the way, the two bags of chips that I grabbed that we. I brought to the. I think they were from what they were giving the bills on the way out the door.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, I stole two more. So I got four.

[Mike Catalano]

Look at that. Were chip stealers. So anyhow, anything else?

[Dan Fates]

Should we do the story?

[Mike Catalano]

It's a tough one to tell because I can't. I don't want to sound like, all right, I'll tell it in a certain way. So it's a great story. Dan and I are going, great story. We're driving into the United States from Canada because we make this drive. And I'll say this, there's a big line. If you've ever been, you got to go through customs. I'm not going to use the actual terms because I don't want anybody to think this, but I relayed a message to Dan that I thought we could use the one lane. Wholeheartedly believed that it was good.

[Dan Fates]

And we were sitting there in what would have been two hours of crossing the line.

[Mike Catalano]

And I am searching Google and I'm saying, hey, we can do this because of something I had.

[Dan Fates]

Correct.

[Mike Catalano]

So we went and we are. When I mean, we are passing cars, hundreds.

[Dan Fates]

It was at least 3/4 of a mile on this bridge that is just.

[Mike Catalano]

We're just standstill going by. And Dan is going, I wish there was somebody in front of me doing the same thing. Because we're the only ones doing it.

[Dan Fates]

This lane. It was like they parted the Red.

[Mike Catalano]

Sea and we cruised through. So now what would have been a two hour wait, hey, we're right up in front of line. We pull up, we hand our stuff to the very nice.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Mike Catalano]

Woman at the border and she's not happy.

[Dan Fates]

And what Mike thought was incorrect.

[Mike Catalano]

What I thought was partially correct.

[Dan Fates]

Correct.

[Mike Catalano]

The other part was not correct.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Mike Catalano]

And she very sweetly and directly after threatening. After threatening Us made us pull over the. Okay, so here's the.

[Dan Fates]

This is the best part.

[Mike Catalano]

The guy who. If any of you know who Nick Sariani is, the Eagles head coach, guy kind of looked like him, except jacked and having his whole outfit on with the gun and the whole thing. He is not messing around. We get out of the vehicle, he tells us, don't bring your phones.

[Dan Fates]

Bring your identification is fine.

[Mike Catalano]

It's not like we're being, you know, they're not handcuffing us. And then he says to Dan.

[Dan Fates]

Leave your man purse.

[Mike Catalano]

And Dan's like, what?

[Dan Fates]

And he says, leave your band purse. So I have a Lululemon open.

[Mike Catalano]

Oh, it's a Lululemon.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. Little fanny pack. Okay. All right. I used it as my. My daughter's diaper bag. Cause it was a one.

[Mike Catalano]

You don't understand. He said it with disdain.

[Dan Fates]

I've never felt smaller as a man. Leave your purse.

[Mike Catalano]

So now Dan, feeling emotionally crippled as.

[Dan Fates]

We'Re getting called into the principal's office.

[Mike Catalano]

So we walked in and it was a bunch of guys in there doing their job. Guy was super cool. We explained to him that we made an error. They were awesome. They were great.

[Dan Fates]

They joked around that the Lions are.

[Mike Catalano]

Not an NFL team. Like, that was the fun part. And we ended up going through. Which was nice. They were very nice.

[Dan Fates]

Two hours.

[Mike Catalano]

Yeah. Not intentional. I would never do it again. And you are listening this. Maybe you can figure it out. I am not thinking we got over on anything. We were stupid and it was my fault. But I'm not the one who got told to leave my man purse in the car. It was spectacular.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, that was good. That one will live on.

[Mike Catalano]

That is an all time moment. And especially the guy was like, total man. Calling your thing the man purse with everything in it.

[Dan Fates]

I was like, yeah, okay.

[Mike Catalano]

Yes. So anyhow, kind of funny.

[Dan Fates]

I thought that was worth sharing.

[Mike Catalano]

It was. I just don't want to make it seem like then I'll get somebody from like, you know, the feds coming after us. Two countries coming after us.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalano]

Love.

[Dan Fates]

Honest mistake.

[Mike Catalano]

Love the people at the border. All nice. But.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, we now know.

[Mike Catalano]

We now know. I. All right, that's going to do it for us. We appreciate you as we're driving through beautiful Canada on our way back to the United States of America. We appreciate you listening to us. Please make sure to rate us comment. Give us some comments on this. What do you think about Dan's man purse?

[Dan Fates]

I was going to say.

[Mike Catalano]

That was exactly what I was going to say. And tell your friends about it because we have a little fun with this. That's going to do it for us. Hey, Foxborough, next week, huge game. And then the jets after that. So two division games coming up, so we'll see what happens. For Dan the Man Purse, I'm Mike Ketalon. Thanks for listening to Buffalo plus, and we'll check you out the next time.