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Buffalo Plus: A Buffalo Bills podcast
BILLS v BROWNS preview: SHEDEUR Sanders, MYLES GARRETT & what THEYRE SAYING in CLEVELAND w/ JON DOSS
00:25:37
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- [00:00]
A
I think that's what you get. You get the duality of Shador Sanders. He's going to make some really cool plays that are going to make you think, wow, this guy really does have a future as a starter in the NFL. And he's going to have moments where you say, man, he is really far away from where this team would need him to be to be a franchise quarterback.
- [00:24]
B
Hey, everybody, welcome Back to the Buffalo plus YouTube channel. I'm Mike Catalano. As always, please make sure to, like, comment and subscribe to the channel. It is a Tuesday when we are recording this. It is a veteran day off for both Jenna Cottrell and Dan Fates, who will be back with me as we go to practice on Wednesday. And then the next thing I want to tell you about is our live appearance that comes up on Thursday night at riverworks in Buffalo. Yes, we are bringing the show back to Buffalo. We were there in October. We are back. We will be there five to seven for the meet and greet and then the live podcast 7 to 8. So it is this Thursday at Riverworks in Buffalo. We are back there. We'll have fun. Brought to you by our friends. Right here we can see White Claw is in the studio with me. Brought to you and a chance to win four tickets to the final game at the stadium. Is that a good way to describe it? So that is at riverworks. That comes up on Thursday. Right now we are here in the Connors and Ferris podcast studio at and we are excited to invite back not just a friend of the pod, but a friend to all of us. A former Rochester sports reporter and anchor, a Syracuse University guy, and now the sports director at News 5 in Cleveland. As he says, the voice is real. It is John Doss. John, welcome back to Buffalo.
- [01:50]
A
Plus, I can't believe you guys locked up the White Claw sponsorship. I mean, I knew you guys were a big deal. I didn't know that we were White Claw.
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B
We are White Claw big. That's where we are right now. All right, what do you got?
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A
I couldn't get away with wearing a bill shirt. I was thinking about a bill shirt, but I don't think in my current capacity I could get away with that. So we went with the Sabre shirt.
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B
Yeah, well, on a day they hired the general manager and who knows what happens with the rest of it. By the way, they haven't done anything, the Sabres, since you left here. So you know that, right?
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A
Not true. Not true. I was there when Lindy Ruff was still the coach the other time. So they have done things.
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B
Yeah, well, we'll see how that plays out. You are the host of a show that you've won an Emmy for called Browns Countdown. What is the countdown to? I want to ask you that. What is the countdown to with the Browns?
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A
I mean, it is physically the countdown to kickoff, countdown to misery. At least it has been for us, the countdown to when at this point in the season, we can get off the field and go back inside to the heated press box. That's really all we're counting down to. Because for the, you know, this franchise, they thought they had it figured out in 2018 when they drafted Baker Mayfield. But in all reality, Mike, it is the countdown to finding a quarterback, which they are still looking for. And it's a reason why, since they returned in 1998, it's been three decades now of utility.
- [03:17]
B
So let's talk about where they are with the quarterback. Um, we have gotten to see Shador Sanders. What has the Shador experience been like for. I'll say, for the fan base? Like, they've seen where he was, you know, where that. When they drafted him and. And now getting a chance to play and at times putting up some numbers. What has it been like with Shador Sanders that the Bills are going to see Sunday?
- [03:41]
A
Let me start by saying that Shador Sanders has been a model citizen since he got the town. In fact, fact, before he even stepped foot in the practice facility in Berea, he was out at middle schools and high schools. He has been in areas of the community that no other professional athlete has gone to. Shador has been a model citizen. And I think everybody genuinely likes the guy because when he's up there on the podium, he's. He doesn't sound like Russell Wilson. He doesn't sound like Patrick Mahomes. It's not a polished, pre rehearsed thing. It's. You feel like you're genuinely getting Shador Sanders the guy, the kid. I think that, as you can imagine, the fan base has split on Shador Sanders, much like it was split on Baker Mayfield at the end of his tenure here in 2021, before they brought in Deshaun Watson. Shedeur is a polarizing figure. He is a polarizing figure nationally, I think even more so here in the city of Cleveland.
- [04:38]
B
So when you say polarizing, is it because the concern would be if you don't like him or don't think he can be that guy, that it prevents you in some way of the organization for saying, we need to go get a guy, or is it Just the whole Sanders thing with Deon and Shador himself coming into the league. Like, where's the polarization?
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A
Well, it's certainly in the Persona, right? The aura that is around Shador Sanders, and some of that is not on him. Some of that is just the reality of his situation and some of it is on the door. I was there in Carolina for the preseason opener when he made the start and he came wheeling into the. Into the locker room to the literal beat of his own drum, right? There was a boombox behind him playing music, and that was the first time we'd ever seen him in another NFL stadium. So some of it is him. I think it is the total package. But I really do think specifically in a city like this, so starved for quarterback play, they are clinging to anything that could get them out of this 30 year rut they have been in. And I think that we saw glimpses of that last week in a loss to Tennessee. But unfortunately we've also been brought down to reality in this most recent loss in Chicago.
- [05:54]
B
So what would you guess? Okay, let's start with this because Bill's fans watching this want to know what are they going to see on Sunday? How has he played? What is his strengths? What are the places where he's just got a lot of work to do.
- [06:06]
A
So his strengths are the strengths that were unanimous during draft time, right? Every scout in the NFL believed he was a first round pick. Like even his biggest detractors had him late first round. And then he started getting into film room sessions and started getting into whiteboard sessions and things started to fall for him. But every NFL scout knew he had accuracy. He was good off script and. And he was really good throwing the football on the move, outside the pocket. Those are things that he's done really, really well. He did it really well against Tennessee. Unfortunately, his deficiencies are that it takes him a little longer to read a defense. Not an uncharacteristic thing for a rookie. We see that for rookie quarterbacks all the time. But he does show a penchant to not only take time, but hold onto the football and take some pretty disastrous sacks, which we saw late in the game, albeit against Chicago. At that point, the game was over, it was out of hand. But his strengths have been really good in his three starts. And his deficiencies that we've known about have kind of reared their ugly heads, unfortunately, a little bit. And so I think that's what you get. You get the duality of Shador Sanders. He's going to make some really Cool plays that are going to make you think, wow, this guy really does have a future as a starter in the NFL. And he's going to have moments where you say, man, he is really far away from where this team would need him to be to be a franchise quarterback.
- [07:25]
B
And it appears that around him is just not strong enough. I mean, I see the pass catchers and Jerry Judy, Harold fan in the. He's out of Toledo, right? The tight end. I think he was.
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A
Harold fans. Bowling Green.
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B
Oh, Bowling Green. Yes. I. I knew it was one of those Ohio schools. Wait a minute. Bowling Greens, Kentucky. Wait a minute.
- [07:44]
A
Where.
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B
What am I doing here? Well, that's close.
- [07:47]
A
He's from here. He is actually.
- [07:48]
B
He's from Ohio. That's what it was. Okay. Does he have anything offensively that would give you the thought that he's getting a fair judgment based on. On who's around him at the moment?
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A
Yeah. You know why you're a Hall of Famer, Mike?
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B
Why is that?
- [08:06]
A
Because you have surrounded yourself with talent. You always have. I can speak from experience on that. Yeah, you've surrounded yourself with talent. You do a great job. You're the best. Your coaching tree and now sprawls coast to coast, but you surround yourself with talent. Even the best need talent around them. And granted, the best of the best, Josh Allen, doesn't need as much talent around him as maybe Shador Sanders does. But you're right, it's impossible to truly evaluate even Dylan Gabriel or Shador Sanders in a scenario like this where the Browns have probably the worst offensive line in football. An offensive line that was the best offensive line in football two, three years ago. Now. They're all older, they're all injury. They've had nine different starting offensive lines just this season. Okay. They have probably the worst receiving core in football. Jerry Judy, who they gave a mega extension to after a career season last year, has had the unequivocally the worst season of his career. Drops pass over pass and the. The depth in that wide receiving room is just empty. As you mentioned, Harold Fannin Jr. Has been a bright spot. A real surprise, the rookie tight end. They've had David Ajoku, who's battling injury issues. And outside of that, they got a nice two headed backfield and Dylan Sampson and Quinn shot Judkins, who down the road are going to be very, very good once they have other pieces around them. But you're right, I don't know that you can truly assess the quarterback situation given how bare the cupboard is in many of the Offensive rooms in Cleveland.
- [09:36]
B
Before we get to the bright spot of the team, the pass rusher, I want to ask about the quarterback or about the head coach. With Stefanski, when you look at his numbers in Cleveland, you see there's two 11 win seasons to do that with the Browns. Where is the fan base on him? Where do you think the organization is on him? And is his time running out in Cleveland?
- [09:59]
A
Yeah, I would, I would normally say like after last year they, you know, they won three games last year and I would say their fan base was pretty split. This is a guy who's been the NFL coach of the year twice, right? In the two times that he took this team to the playoff. I will recognize that one time they had the easiest schedule in football and they caught lightning in a bottle with Joe Flacco coming off the couch in 2023. The other time was 2020 during the COVID season when things were kind of all over the place. And outside of those two years, they've been one of the worst teams in football. So I think the fan base is less and less split on Kevin Stefanski and his future in Cleveland. I will say in the off season, Jimmy Haslam, the owner of the Browns, acknowledged the mistake that was the desean Watson trade and took a lot of ownership over that. And I think kind of made it known that this was really a top down decision. Right. The Browns ownership was the bus drivers on bringing desean Watson to town. And I think they want to give Kevin Stefanski and Andrew Barry all of the Runway possible to get out from what has been maybe the most disastrous trade in NFL history. So I keep saying he's not going to get fired at the end of this year. They're going to give him another opportunity a year from now. But then you lose to the jets, then you lose to the Titans, which at the time were the worst team in football. And it's hard to argue outside of the Raiders who got their butt kicks by, by your Eagles this weekend. It's hard to argue there's another team that's worse right now than the Browns.
- [11:22]
B
Are they playing for him? Because you can have lack of talent. You know what it's like at the end of the season. You mentioned those Raiders. They look like they would have rather been on a trip to Cancun. And then you see sometimes teams that are out of it, but they play with a purpose. Like there's, you know, guys fighting. Is it a mix on this team? Do you see effort and just a lack of talent? Is that what The Bills will see Sunday.
- [11:45]
A
Yeah, I think you're seeing a team like New Orleans. Right. They've won a couple of games here in the last few weeks that they probably shouldn't have, that their fan base is. Probably wants them to not win. I would have told you at midseason. Yes. There was a point where they played Miami two, three win teams. This was what now four or five weeks ago. And one team very much looked like it had quit on the coach. That was the Dolphins. And one team very much looked like it was playing for their head coach and the Browns crushed them here. I will say it has not looked like that in the last month of this season so far.
- [12:16]
B
Hmm. So that's maybe what the Bills will see on Sunday. I think Myles Garrett is. Well, we have Josh Allen and I don't think you can play the position much better than he has played it certainly recently. But in terms of a position and a player who is considered one of one, it's Miles Garrett. What's it like to watch him, watch him do what he's doing with this team and the way the league reacts to him week after week.
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A
And remember, this came after, after an off season with a lot of strife. Right. He very publicly requested a trade. He did a radio. A series of radio row interviews where he was basically acting like he was a free agent even though he was a guy still under contract for a couple of seasons. And then he signs the. Well at the time, the extension that made him the highest paid defensive player in football. It would have been very easy to foresee a world in which Myles Garrett just rolled into Berea, went through the motions for the next four or five years and called it a career. Instead, he has had a career year and I will say it is not a coincidence that coincides with the Browns having the best front four that they have ever had. Since they brought Garrett in in 2017, they've been always looking for those pieces to put around him. They haven't been able to find those. They thought maybe Jadavian Clowney was that once at one point and he looked good for half a season. They've never had this consistency on the defensive front, some argue, and some of the numbers suggest they're the best front four in football. That's a big reason why Garrett's having the success he's had. Yes, he's still being double and triple teamed from time to time, but teams can't do that on a regular basis because the Raiders tried. The Raiders tried to double and triple team him. The Entire game. And poor Geno smith was sacked 10 times. So I think Garrett has taken it to another level. But he's also got better pieces like we talk about. Right. You need the pieces around you. He said the best pieces around him so far in his career.
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B
So who were the guys. Who are the guys in addition to Garrett that we should be keeping an eye on?
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A
So Malik Collins was a guy that was having a really, really good season. Unfortunately, he's to the ir. He got injured a couple of weeks ago, so his season is over. Mason Graham is the kid they drafted with the number five overall pick in the draft.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Trading that number two pick to Jacksonville, he's been good. Alex Wright is the guy on the opposite end. He's a guy that this. This franchise has had a lot of. Of optimism for the last couple of seasons, but he's battled injuries. He missed a lot of games with a pec injury last year. He came back and looked like the best player on the field in the preseason, albeit with no Miles Garrett on the field. And he has built off of that. He has been really, really good for them. He's battled some injuries. He's missed the last couple of weeks, but he'll be there on Sunday against the Bills. So he's been the best one. But Shelby Harris, also in the middle of the field, has been really, really good for them. Mike Hart's been really good for them. And then at the next level, they've got the. They've had the best linebacker that they've had probably since this team returned, probably since Clay Matthews and Carson Schlesinger, who's probably your defensive rookie of the year.
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B
So there's some talent there.
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A
There's a ton of talent on defense.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Defense is not the issue. You know, the numbers are going to be inflated from Caleb Williams last week because there was no Denzel Ward. Secondary is banged up and they were able to throw all over him. But at the first and second levels, this is the strongest they have been, certainly since Miles Garrett got to town in 2017. Did you know there's only one team ever that has had the defensive player of the year and the defensive rookie of the year on the same team? Do you have any idea who that might have been?
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B
Boy, 1985 Chicago Bears.
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A
Would it help you if I said it was the same player?
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B
How long? Oh, was it Miles Garrett?
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A
It was Lawrence Taylor's.
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B
Oh, oh, oh, I. I remember that.
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A
You should. You should have done that. It was Lawrence.
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B
Yes. Out of North Carolina. He was crazy good the Rookie of.
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A
The year and he was the defense and the. The defensive player of the year. And it is all but foregone conclusion now that these two guys are going to win these two awards. So the cupboard is not bare defensively. Defensively, they are set now and potentially set for the next few years. It's everything on the offensive side of the ball that they got to get figured out.
- [16:36]
B
All right, so it's not a long trip from Buffalo or Rochester or wherever people are coming from. There'll be fans who make the trip. What's the atmosphere been like? There's been a lot of losing. We know that this is not like this has been a team that's winning. And then all of a sudden they're in a bad stretch. People are going to the game on Sunday. What's the atmosphere at the stadium like?
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A
Let me start by saying that the fans here in Cleveland are some of the best fans on the planet because they show up rain or shine or snow or sleet or ice on the highways. They show up for what has been one of the worst franchises in football history, at least, you know, since the 90s. They show up. They always have. There has been a turning point, and I think it started with the Deshaun Watson trade. There was a lot of people that were upset by the trade itself even before it was shown that Watson didn't have, you know, whatever he had in Houston. And it has only gone downhill from there. Add in the fact that there's been some stadium strife with this city. Right. The Browns are moving out of Cleveland proper. They're moving to Brook park, which is five, six miles away. So it's not a big move, but there have been a lot of people that have been sore about that. So there is. There's something going on with the relationship between this team and this fan base that has never been in question before until now. I think that combined with another three win season, the weather's going to be okay. It's going to be 30s or 40s. So compared to what we have right this very moment, it's going to be okay. I think you're going to see anywhere between 60 and 80% Bills fans at the game Sunday.
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B
Wow.
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A
Yeah.
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B
I mean, it's. It's a pretty easy trip. That's why I always wish they were in the same division. Cause it just would have been such a good rivalry that way, but for fans to make it back and forth. So, yeah, I guess I can see at a point where you've just given a lot and you're you are talking about a passionate fan base. I mean, you said that they, the strife is big. I mean, they did have somebody pull the team out and move them. But this is different now because they are building the new stadium and while people would be upset, I mean, they're not going anywhere. But right now they're not going anywhere. If that, if you follow both ways to say that phrase, you know. So I think it's got to be, it's got to be tough week in, week out to try to recipe for.
- [19:00]
A
Disaster this weekend, specifically because you got a Buffalo team coming off of a, I mean, win of the season. Right. They're on the verge of clinching a playoffs. They haven't clenched the playoff spot yet, right?
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B
Not officially, but it's, it's.
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A
They're on the verge of 198 playoff spot. We're three hours away from Orchard park, right. Four hours away from Fairport, if you will. Right? Yeah, it is, it's a, it's a recipe for disaster for this team. I think you're, I don't think it's hyperbole to say that. I think it's going to be 80% and the tickets are going to be cheap.
- [19:34]
B
Oh, so you got that. And the weather's not too bad. I always ask this, so I need this from you here. No matter what it is in the type of setup, if there's a game plan for the Browns to pull off an upset because the Bills are coming off kind of an emotional big win, you know, then they have the Eagles, then they close out the stadium. They've got that going on. If there's a game plan, Stefanski is trying to figure it out. What's the game plan? What's the best way for the Browns to stay in the game and take a shot here?
- [20:03]
A
So Sunday was the first time the Browns were, it felt like they were out of the game from the jump from the kickoff, right. It felt like they just, they had no shot to win in Chicago other than that. There's only been three other games that they've really been beaten handily. That was in Detroit. That was against the Ravens, and it was against the Patriots. And even those three games, it was tight late into the third quarter or early in the fourth quarter. And then those teams just, they were better and they just pulled away at the end. Right. But the reason they've been tight is the recipe that, that they have to obviously employ against the Bills. The defense has to be spectacular. Right. Miles Garrett has to lead the charge. Denzel Ward has to play Carson Schlesinger, has to look like the defensive rookie of the year. If they can hold Josh Allen and Buffalo under 20 points, maybe get a turnover deep in their own zone. Right. And get one or two scoring drives out of this offense. Because you have to be realistic. We're not asking for 30 points out of Shador Sanders and the Browns offense against Buffalo. It's not going to happen. They have to win a game in which they keep the other team under 20. Right. That's just. That's the recipe for success. They can do it. They've done well against every, almost every star quarterback that they have seen this year. They held Joe Burrow with a historically low numbers, albeit in week one. They have held Lamar Jackson with historically low numbers. They did very well against Jared Goff for three quarters of that football game in Detroit. They've got to contain Josh Allen. They got to keep Buffalo under 20 points. That's the only way they went. Because this, Bill, this Browns team is not scoring 25, 30 points in this game.
- [21:41]
B
Yeah. Well, we'll see if that can work out and get this rivalry between these two cities that have had. They've also played some of the strangest, worst football games you will ever see. And I've been.
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A
The last time you guys were here, the last time you guys were here, the Baker Mayfield forward shuffle that, yes, we all found out, is apparently a pass in the NFL, which at that time we all thought was a fumble. The Bills, they run it back and it looked like the Browns had blown that game and they said it was an incomplete pass. And Cleveland ultimately hangs on. But you're right, they've played some weird ones. I don't know that this one's going to be weird, you know, unfortunately. And I want the Browns to win every game. I want him to go 17 and oh at the end of the regular season makes my job a heck of a lot more fun.
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B
Right.
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A
I think that these two teams are in different stratospheres right now, especially Buffalo coming off that win. But again, the Browns defense is so good. Who knows?
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B
Yeah, they can hang in the football game. All right. Hey, John, thanks very much. This is great. We're going to see you there. Let everybody know where they can see you, follow you on social media if they want anything on all clicks. Cleveland sports.
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A
I hate social media, but you can find me on Twitter at John Doss and I expect you to buy me a cocktail Saturday night.
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B
You got it. We will be there. We will see you and then see you at the game. And it should be a. It should be something. How about that? Bill's in the bush.
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A
It always is something along the shores of Lake Erie.
- [23:10]
B
All right, John Doss from Cleveland, thanks for being with us and thank all of you for being with us. Once again, a reminder for Riverworks Thursday night where they're five to seven meet and greet. Jenna, Dan and myself podcast live from seven eight. Or you can watch it here on the Buffalo plus YouTube channel. Thanks for being with us here on the what They're Saying segment with John Doss from the Connors and Ferris Podcast studio. Make sure, as always, to like, comment and subscribe and we will see you the next time on Buffalo Plus.
- [23:47]
A
Sam.