← Buffalo Plus: A Buffalo Bills podcast
Buffalo Plus: A Buffalo Bills podcast
BILLS vs BENGALS. What they're saying in CINCINNATI with Dan Hoard
00:32:02
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- [00:00]
A
Oh, I was a Bills fan as a kid. The first NFL games I ever went to were in that stadium. So honestly, whenever I have a chance to broadcast the game there, it's a huge thrill for me because I just look out into the stands and I remember where I was sitting as a kid.
- [00:22]
B
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Buffalo plus YouTube channel. As always, we ask you to please make sure to, like, comment and subscribe. We are coming to you from the Connors and Ferris podcast studio. We have a special guest this week, friend of the pod. Been on with us before. You certainly know the team where you're going to learn a lot more about the team that the Bills are welcoming in on Sunday, the voice of the Cincinnati Bengals. We welcome in Dan Hort. Dan, thanks for being back on Buffalo Plus, Mike.
- [00:53]
A
My pleasure. Looking forward to returning to Buffalo.
- [00:56]
B
I know it is something so. Okay. You know the old saying in the NFL, it's not always who you play, it's when you play them. Are the Bills playing the Bengals at the wrong time?
- [01:08]
A
Well, the Bengals have Joe Burrow back, so in that sense, yes. Cincinnati has won its last eight games that Joe Burrow has started the last five last year, all three this year. Now back in week two, he got hurt in the second quarter and they were down by seven at the time. Backup quarterback rallied them to victory. But nonetheless, when Joe Burrow plays, Cincinnati is a much better team. That seems like a duh kind of statement, but it lifts everybody on the team. The defense has been pretty lousy, honestly this year. He came back last week. They got five takeaways against the Baltimore Ravens. So for whatever reason, everybody in the building is more confident, more hopeful when Joe Burrow is on the field. And that makes sense. It would be the same for the Bills of Josh Allen was out. It. It just makes an extraordinary difference when you have one of those guys and they're only so many of them in the NFL. Both of these teams are lucky enough to have one.
- [02:03]
B
Yeah, no question about it. So I'm watching the game last week and they had a lot of opportunities, not particularly great in the red zone, you know, and then you're realizing, like, this guy hasn't played football in a while, but they. They came through basically as a team. My guess is getting him on the field, getting those snaps and winning a football game like they did really was important to Burrow. You know, the idea being is be a big difference if he was walking into Buffalo this week without having that.
- [02:36]
A
Full game behind him 100% and he got Better as the game went along. They scored 32 points. Despite the red zone failures last week. Both of his touchdown passes came in the second half. He says he got more and more comfortable as the game progressed. And you could see it. He was missing passes, passes, and he never misses early in that game to Jamar Chase. By the end of the game, he was putting exactly where he wanted to. His touchdown pass in the second half to Andre Yossi Bosh was one of those throws that just a handful of quarterbacks in the world can make. Burrows, one of the best to do it now, maybe one of the best to ever do it. Certainly in terms of his accuracy, he's one of the best to ever do it. And it's given the Bengals hope despite the fact that they have a lousy record through 12 games.
- [03:21]
B
Yeah, the hope is wild because obviously with the way the division's gone and we were just in Pittsburgh watching the Steelers, and that team is flailing away. It's. It's open for them to win the division. At what point was the conversation real with him coming back and was there ever talk of saying, like, I don't know if there was a game they would have because they. They weren't playing obviously particularly well. Was there a moment you thought, I don't know if they're going to bring him back this year?
- [03:52]
A
Well, I'll say this, Mike. When he got injured in week two, the medical timetable at that point, that we heard from all the experts was three months. And three months from the injury would have brought Burrow back with three games left in the season. He came back three games, essentially ahead of schedule. That's Joe Burrow. He defies expectations in every possible way. So, anyway, going back to the time of the injury, I think most Bengals fans and experts around the NFL said, all right, you know, if they're still in contention with three games to go and the doctor sign off and he's healthy, all right, then it makes sense. If they're out of it, then it probably doesn't make sense. Well, my feelings on that have changed, and I think Joe Burrow changed many people's opinions on that subject. In Joe's opinion, this is what he does. His life is obsessed with being the best quarterback he can be, with leading this team, with trying to ultimately win a Super Bowl. So for Joe, once he was healthy, the record didn't matter. Once the doctors say you're good to go, he said, I'm ready to play. And it didn't really make sense to him that people said you should only come back if there's a lot at stake. Joe Burrow is like, I'm fine now. I mean, if I had never been hurt, you wouldn't ask me to sit down with five games to go. So once I'm healthy, I'm healthy. So he's back. He came back when they really weren't in great contention. But again, because the AFC has been such a muddled mess. Well, the AFC north more specifically has been such a muddled mess that even though they are four and eight with five games to go, if they can beat Buffalo, rematch against Baltimore next week, if they win those two games, they are right in the thick of things.
- [05:41]
B
Yeah, it's wild the way it's playing out. And you know, I was thinking about that for the Bills, like there, there's a scenario where let's say the Bengals win this week. These teams could be meeting in the first round of the playoffs in Cincinnati.
- [05:59]
A
Right? Yeah. I think the Bengals realistically only get into the playoffs as the champion of the AFC North. The best they can do is 9 and 8. So chances are they're not going to be a wild card team. But they can win the division, right? 3, 3 and 1. In the AFC north, they still have a game against Baltimore. It's a home game. At a home game against the Cleveland Browns, Ravens and Steelers are tied for first. Neither team has a great record 500 teams right now. So here's the scenario. I mean, there are other ways that this could work out as well, but if the Bengals run the table to get to 9 and 8 and Pittsburgh and Baltimore split, they still play each other twice. That's it. That's enough Chase. That's all that has to happen now. Winning five in a row and it would be six since the Bengals win last week. That's hard to do. But guess what? They did it last year. They won their last five to go nine and eight. They had the exact same record at this point last year they ran the table to go 9 and 8 in 2021 when they went to the super bowl, they were a game over.500. They won their last six. The next year they were four and four. They won ten in a row. So this is, this is what done in the Zach Taylor era. They seemingly start poorly every year. Now burrow injuries have had a lot to do with this, but then they get hot. He's had a pretty good track record for keeping guys fresh and healthy. You know, one of the things that Zach Taylor has been criticized for is that their training Camps haven't been that tough, and maybe that's why they've started poorly, but maybe that's also why they finished strong. They're fresher than a lot of the teams they play. They're healthier, typically, than a lot of the teams they play late in the season. And he gets criticized for the slow starts. He never gets credit for the strong finishes, and maybe it's time that he does.
- [07:49]
B
Yeah. Well, certainly this would be one for this year. Let me ask you about Jamar Chase. It's been kind of a wild year for him. And then you had the incident, you know, that happened when he got suspended and still making plays. And now what have you seen from him this year? Obviously, he's one of, if not the best wide receiver in the NFL. What have you seen from Chase?
- [08:12]
A
He is the best wide receiver in the NFL, and here's why. He's a combination of being the best wide receiver and the best running back. I honestly think if you moved him to running back, he would be one of the top two or three running backs in the NFL. He is so unbelievably strong that when you get him the ball, the play is just starting. You know, for most wide receivers, they make the catch. Yeah, sometimes they might get yards after catch, but a lot of times they get tackled. The first guy never tackles. Hard case. He is so physically strong in the lower body, but he's got all the other traits of a great wide receiver as well. Great speed, unbelievable hands, great route running. He is such a physical freak. He won the wide receiver triple crown last year, which has only happened a handful of times in NFL history where you have the most catches, most yards, most touchdowns. He's not going to do that this year, but he might lead the NFL in catches, and that's with three different quarterbacks throwing him the ball. Now that Burrow is back, their symmetry is so crazy going back to their two years together at lsu. So defenses try everything that defenses normally do to shut down the other team's number one wide receiver. And with Jamar Chase, you really can't do it. You can limit him. You know, in a good game, maybe you hold him to 90 yards, but you're not going to hold him to 30. Nobody does that.
- [09:31]
B
So going back to the idea of is, it's not always who you play, it's when you play them. He missed that game against the Patriots, and that was a very competitive game without Burrow. Higgins is out, and then no Jamar Chase because he was suspended. The Bills haven't seen the Patriots since early in the year. It was a huge win for them. You saw them more recently and I know it was with a different version of what we'll see from the Bengals on Sunday. What was your impression of that Patriots team and where do you think they are? I'm asking because you just saw them and the Bills are going to see them again in another week. What. What is your impression of that Patriots team?
- [10:14]
A
Patriots didn't play very well in Cincinnati. Honestly, Drake May was off. By the end of the game he was playing better, but early in that game he was making some terrible throws. I will give the Bengals defense credit. As I said early in our conversation, the Bengals defense for the entire season has been awful. Dead last in the NFL and points allowed, dead last in yards allowed. But they've been better lately. They're playing a lot of young guys that are kind of figuring it out on the fly. And if you go back over the last three weeks, the other team's offense has not scored more than 20 points. Steelers offense scored 20. They got two defensive touchdowns. That's how they won the game. The Patriots offense scored 19. They got a defensive touchdown to help win the game. Last week, the Ravens didn't get any defensive touchdowns and the Bengals won by 18 points. So the Bengals defense is coming on. So that was one of the reasons why Drake May wasn't as good as he's been for the course of the season. I'm not buying the Patriots as a Super bowl contender. I think they're going to win the division. No offense, Buffalo fans. You know, they've got the lead at this point and their schedule is pretty favorable. But I still think they're probably a year away, at least from being the AFC representative in the Super Bowl. But Mike Vull's done an unbelievable job. You got to give him credit for that.
- [11:34]
B
Yeah, no doubt. And you know, they may find themselves in the one seed, which puts them in a good spot, but we'll see how it plays out. The Bills are ranked as the number one pass defense by yards in the league. Watching this team this year, it's been mainly because teams have run the ball on them. That's where they've impacted the Bills. Now when you've got Burrow and Chase, you're going to throw the football. Where's the run game for the Bengals now and how do you think they'll use it on Sunday?
- [12:04]
A
Yeah, so remember the other Chase? It's not just Jamar Chase, it's Chase Brown as well. Who is the Bengals number one running back. Early this year he couldn't do anything. The offensive line was struggling. They've got a new offensive line coach this year. For much of the year they've started rookies at left guard and right guard and a second year right tackle. Well, those guys have gotten better. They're working better with a new offensive line coach. And now over the last six games, Base Brown has topped 100 scrimmage yards in every game. It hasn't just been rushing, it's been catches out of the backfield, but the running game has come on. So they are not only relying on the pass game to the extent that they were early this season or as they have sometimes in the past with Joe Burrow, they've got a better connection now between running and passing and they're definitely going to try to mix it up. I think one thing that's been interesting, when Joe Flacco started the games that he started for Cincinnati this year, he was under center a lot more than Joe Burrow historically has been. Joe Burrow makes no mistake of the fact that ideally he likes to be in the shotgun so he can see the entire defense. Nobody's better at processing before the snap and after the snap. That is Joe Burrows superpower. In addition to his accuracy, he just sees everything, you know, it's like six dimensional chess or something. He's unbelievable in that respect. So his preference is to be in the shotgun, see everything and run the offense that way. But it does make it a little bit difficult, more difficult to run because play action isn't as effective out of the shotgun as it is when the quarterback is under center. So Joe Flacco is under center quite a bit. When Burrow came back last week against Baltimore, he was under center a lot more than he has typically been in the past. So I would anticipate that they'll do that quite a bit on Sunday against Buffalo.
- [14:00]
B
So you mentioned the defense and obviously in a way it doesn't matter where they were, they have obviously improved. It's better, I don't think like no Trey Hendrickson this week, right? It looks correct. We're not going to play. How bad did it get though? I mean, because you know, you mentioned with Flacco they were scoring. I mean there was a lot of points. Like even that jets game was wild and that's against the Jets. How bad did it get and how did they keep this group together to now be feeling a little bit better?
- [14:31]
A
And going forward they scored 80 points in back to back games. Got total of 80 points, 38 and 142 in the next and lost both. They lost to the Jets 3938 when they had a 15 point lead in the fourth quarter. The next week they lost to the Bears when they scored 42. It was 4742, if I'm not mistaken. They took the lead with 50 seconds to go and wound up losing the game when they gave up a late touchdown pass. So the defense was really bad. How have they kept it together? There's so many young guys. I mean, they're just really excited to be out there, starting playing, getting their chance. So these guys are getting better. They're starting to rookie linebackers. I think that that is the most difficult position to play as a rookie. On defense, if you're a cornerback, you're covering your guy. If you're a defensive lineman, you know your plugging your gap on a running play and trying to get after the quarterback on a passing play. But if you're a linebacker, I mean Barrett Gardner, a fourth round draft pick who's starting at linebacker, he's the guy wearing the green dot on his helmet. He's got to communicate all of this stuff. As a rookie, it is really hard now, double that. They only start two linebackers in their defense. It's mostly a four to five type defense and both of those linebackers are rookies. So at times it's been really rough. But they're getting better. They've got a bunch of young guys on the defensive line that are getting better. So they've drafted a bunch of guys in the first, second and third rounds in the last four years. They've got to be cheap on defense because they're spending so much money on offense. So that's kind of the formula that the Kansas City Chiefs have followed to be so good year after year after year. It's what the Bengals are trying to do. They're taking their lumps defensively, but it is getting better.
- [16:25]
B
When you look at the effect Burrow has, how does he, how does he do it with his team? Like I, you know, we see him in the news conferences. We're not obviously around him. We see him with the games in terms of the way they follow him, this team, because you mentioned, yes, young players and they're playing better, but obviously him walking in that locker room ready to play that week impacted the entire team. How does Burrow do that? What's his personality around his teammates?
- [16:57]
A
I think he's very Brady, like in his personality. And I was never around Tom Brady. But we've obviously seen, heard, read, watched documentaries, whatever about Tom Brady. And we understand his obsession for more than 20 years with being the absolute best quarterback he could possibly be. That is Joe Burrow. I think every waking minute of his life is focused on being the best quarterback in the NFL if he can be. So everything from his diet to his sleep routine to all of it, I mean, I don't know that, you know, he would know a single show that's on tv. I mean, I just think the guy is so laser focused on this obsession of his that it permeates throughout the building. I mean, when Joe Burrow is around, you just. You stand up a little bit taller. You try to be a little bit more buttoned up because he is so good at what he does and cares so much about himself and the team that it affects everybody else. And nothing against Joe Flacco. The dude is 40. He's been playing in the NFL for 18 years. He's won a Super Bowl. But it's just different when Joe Burrow is around and able to play.
- [18:07]
B
You know, when we talk here about, obviously, what has gone on with the Bills, with Josh Allen, you know, from the outside and even on the inside, there's people that'll say, oh, Bills are wasting his talent. They haven't gotten to a Super bowl with the Bengals. That's a little bit different in terms of been to a Super bowl and had some big wins, one in Kansas City in a playoff game, those type of things. When you look at Burrow up to this point, maybe he's ready to make another run here. The injuries have held him back in some way. The Chiefs, like everybody else, have held him back.
- [18:43]
A
Where.
- [18:44]
B
Where do you think he is in his career? Because, you know, to have a guy like that, especially with franchises like Buffalo and Cincinnati, in terms of, you know, really leading the entire franchise, like you said, where do you think it's been? You know, obviously his injury is a big part of it. And where do you think his mindset is going forward?
- [19:05]
A
Well, let's start with the injuries. He's played six years in the NFL. He's had three healthy years. In those three healthy years, they've been to a Super bowl, an AFC championship game, and then last year, they were out of the playoffs with a winning record because their defense was atrocious. When Joe Burrow is healthy and can play 17 games or close to it, the Bengals are going to be one of the best teams in the NFL. The biggest thing is he's got to stay on the field. And you know, in one sense, just the statistics would tell you that he's injury prone. But there's a connotation with that that implies that, like, it's a fault of his. It's football. He had a guy crash into his knee as a rookie. He tore his acl, missed six games. He fell to the ground a couple years later and braced himself for the fall by putting his right wrist on the ground. Unfortunately, ligaments tore. It's. It happens. It's football. Earlier this year, he got tackled on a seemingly innocuous play at type of tackle that happens a hundred times in every game. Tore ligaments in his toe, his foot hyper extended, or his big toe in his left foot hyper extended and he tore ligaments. It's not injury prone. It's football. It's unfortunate. It's bad luck. He's healed. Hopefully his luck is better going forward because if he can play 17 games or close to it in the seasons to come, I think the Bengals will get back to a Super Bowl. He's that good. And Buffalo has one of those guys. Kansas City has one of those guys. The Chiefs have surrounded Patrick Mahomes with better players than the Bills and Bengals have for most of their respective careers. Kansas City is obviously reaching the end of the road for some of those guys. They've come back to earth this year. I think there's a window open for Josh, for Joe, the other great young quarterbacks in the afc, and we're going to see more teams getting into the super bowl than just Kansas City, year after year, year after year.
- [21:08]
B
Yeah. And this year you got to just get it. I mean, when you think about it at the moment, Lamar's not in, Mahomes is not in. The Bills are hanging on to their spot and Cincinnati needs to make a run. It's as wide open. Even if you just make it, it is wide open. I mean, because who do you trust in the afc? You would, we always would think in terms of trusting those quarterbacks in the game. When you look at it and we talked about the Patriots being really good, what do you see in the conference in terms of the teams that say it's the Bengals, say it's the Bills, whoever is there, that would be the biggest impediment to getting there.
- [21:47]
A
I think when you get to the playoffs, those are the teams that are going to advance. It's not going to be Danny Dimes in Indianapolis. It's not going to be a second year quarterback. And Drake may as highly as I think of him Going forward, it's going to be a borough. A Josh Allen, a Lamar Jackson, somebody like that. When the chips are on the line and it's lousy weather, all those things that come into play in the postseason, one of those guys is going to take his team to the Super Bowl. And again, if the Bengals can somehow run the table and win the AFC north and get in, I don't think anybody wants to face Joe Burrow in a playoff game. He's 5 and 2 in the postseason. He's 1 in Buffalo. He's won in Kansas City. He won in Tennessee when he got sacked nine times, and they still won the freaking game. I mean, the guy is unbelievable when the pressure's on the line, but they've got to get in first.
- [22:43]
B
Yeah, you mentioned that one in Buffalo. You're coming to Buffalo for this one. It's the last time they'll play in that stadium. I don't even. I guess there's a scenario where it could happen that they would. Bills would have a playoff game there, but not against the Bengals.
- [22:59]
A
Not really.
- [22:59]
B
I mean, you know, I don't. I don't see that scenario. What do you think when you come into that stadium? Obviously, the Bengals had a huge day there when they. They advanced in the playoffs. What have you thought about coming back to New York State, Syracuse guy, you know, and what do you think when you come back to, well, now High Mark Stadium?
- [23:18]
A
Well, it's special for me, Mike, because I grew up in Jamestown, New York, a little bit south of Buffalo. I was a Bills fan as a kid. The first NFL games I ever went to were in that stadium. So honestly, whenever I have a chance to broadcast the game there, it's a huge thrill for me because I just look out into the stands and I remember where I was sitting as a kid. I remember when my dad took me to a Monday night game in 1973, the year that O.J. ran for 2003 yards. I was there the night against Kansas City when he topped 1,000 yards in game seven. So we knew he was on the pace 14 game season to get to 2,000 yards. That was like one of the greatest nights of my childhood. You know, I went to a Monday night game. I got out of school the next day. My dad took me to a Monday night game in Buffalo and, you know, told the nurse that I was too sick to go to school the next day. So that was a huge thrill. Broadcast booth is the Van Miller Broadcast center or something like that. The great Bills announcer. He's the biggest Reason why I do what I do. I was obsessed with Van Miller. The other kids in the neighborhood liked the athletes. For whatever reason, Van Miller was my guy. I think he's the best football broadcaster on radio to ever do it. I think, unintentionally, a lot of my calls probably sound like his, because that's how it sounds in my head. So when a quarterback throws the ball, Van Miller would say, and it is, you know, he would build up the moment to. It is caught by Andre Reed.
- [24:50]
B
Maybe you got to throw in a fandom pandemonium here, right in your last game at High Mark Stadium, and then you'll get to see across the street. The new place is going to be pretty sweet.
- [25:02]
A
Yeah, I've seen the pictures and the videos. I've seen some of the, like, walking tours through the construction. So I'm excited for Western New Yorkers. A lot of my family still lives in that area. My mom is still with us. She claims that when the Bengals take on the Bills, that she's rooting for Cincinnati because it's my team. I know that's not the case. She's. She's lying right to my face. My loving mother deep down inside will be rooting for the Bills this Sunday.
- [25:31]
B
That the western New York Buffalo runs deep, doesn't it? Last question I had for you is on the fan base and on. On, say, on Zach Taylor and where they are, because, you know, we hear it here in Buffalo, like, get rid of Bean, get rid of McDermott, like, when the team doesn't advance a little different for Taylor because you mentioned, you know, we've had the quarterback out. Where is the fan base now? And where have they been with the coach up to this point and now seeing what this team can do on this last run.
- [26:04]
A
Well, nobody likes four and eight, and the Bengals have missed the playoffs each of the last two years. So if this were any city in the world, a significant portion of the fan base would say, fire everybody. That's just the way it is in this day and age. I broadcast University of Cincinnati games as well. They started the season 7 and 1. As soon as they started losing a couple of games, fire the coach. That's just, you know, the quick, easy solution. So there are people that want Zach Taylor out. There are people that want Duke Tobin, who's essentially their general manager. He's got a different title, but he does all the responsibilities of a gm. They want him out. If they win a few games, they'll want him back. Zach Taylor took the Bengals to the Super bowl in 2021. He was back in the AFC championship game the following year. That's hard to do. Cincinnati's owner, Mike Brown, is the son of arguably the most innovative coach in the history of sports, Paul Brown. I think he appreciates good coaches and is more patient with them than most owners. So I don't really get the sense that Zach Taylor is in jeopardy, but, you know, who knows? They've got five games to go, so we'll see what happens from here on in.
- [27:16]
B
Well, this has been awesome. It's been great catching up with you. We look forward to seeing you on Sunday. Tell me what you think, what you think coming into this one, because obviously I look at it as. I mean, I've looked at every one of these games as being a slug fest between the two. First of all, it's gonna be fun to see Alan and Burrow back together again. How do you think the game plans out? You don't have to give me a score, but how do you think the game plays out?
- [27:45]
A
I think it all comes down to is Cincinnati's defensive improvement for real? Can they make it four games in a row where they've actually given the Bengals a chance to win? Earlier this year, the way that defense was. Was playing, I think Bengals fans were saying, Josh Allen's going to set the NFL record for combined touching passing touchdowns and rushing touchdowns in a single game. Now, based on how the defense has looked for the last few weeks, I think people think, all right, they've got at least a reasonable chance to hold Buffalo to the type of number that would give Joe Burrow an opportunity to top it. So that's kind of where I am going into this game. I want to see if this defense is truly making the type of improvements that it appears to be making. Can they do it on the road in Buffalo against one of the NFL's best quarterbacks? And if they can, then we've seen that Joe Burrow can beat Buffalo. He's done it before. I think Joe's going to play well because he almost always does, and now he's got a game under his belt. So I think it comes down to if the Bengals defense can play well enough to give the offense a chance.
- [28:51]
B
Yeah, it's going to be fun to see. Hey, Dan, thanks very much. All right, so we got Dan Hort, voice of the Bengals, voice of the Bearcats, Jamestown native, grew up a Bills fan. Voices in the symptom Simpsons multiple time Ohio sportscaster year. You're in all kinds of hall of Fames. I was looking some of the stuff up, you know, I mean, come on. All over the place. Won the big award at su. Come on, you get. Where do you put all the trophies? What do you do with everything?
- [29:22]
A
I've been lucky to have received some of the awards that I've received. I'm in the Chautauqua County Sports hall of Fame, Mike. That's huge. That's the county a little bit south of Buffalo. So I've got my western New York cred. There's no doubt about it.
- [29:37]
B
There's no doubt. All right, well, thanks very much to Dan Horde. We appreciate him being with us. And thanks to all of you for being with us here on Buffalo plus, we're coming to you from the Connors and Ferris podcast studio. We will have coverage all week long with Dan and Jenna. The two of them will be joining me. And make sure you like, comment and subscribe once again to the Buffalo plus YouTube channel. And we will see you next time. Take care. And we'll see how the game goes this weekend between the Bills and the Bengals.