Buffalo Bills Camp Position Battle Update

Summary

Buffalo Plus: Buffalo Bills Camp Position Battle Update

Episode Date: August 4, 2023
Hosts: Mike Catalana, Jenna Cottrell
Missing: Dan Fetes (out for family reasons—congratulations on baby Ryan Paige!)

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Episode Overview

This episode delivers an in-depth mid-camp update and analysis on the Buffalo Bills’ major position battles, team dynamics, and the overall vibe at training camp. With Dan out, Mike and Jenna dissect the evolving roster, the mood around camp, coaching changes, and which player stories stand out as the Bills transition through training periods at St. John Fisher College. The hosts also engage with listener questions, offering behind-the-scenes insights and a few laughs.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Camp Vibe & Distraction-Free Atmosphere

[02:15] - [03:39]

• The hosts agree: this has been a notably positive, focused, and drama-free training camp.
• The "Diggs drama" was shut down early—once Stefon Diggs spoke, concerns evaporated.
  • Quote: “Diggs Crushed that when he spoke, it ended. And from that point on, it has been a camp that I would say has great energy. Yeah, it's efficient. It's offense winning one day, defense another.” — Mike [02:15]
• No fights or sideline nonsense seen—the team is dialed in and working efficiently.
• Both hosts praise the underdog mentality and professionalism of core players (Allen, Diggs, Poyer, Hyde, Milano, Tre’ White).

2. Leadership and Coaching Changes

[03:45] - [05:11]

• Sean McDermott is chewing up defensive coordinator duties with a lighter touch and visible good humor.
  • Quote: “He's been laughing a lot…Maybe he's freed up as D.C. I don't know what it is, but I think there is a good vibe.” — Mike [05:00]
• Team structure and daily routines are in lockstep—players know what to expect.
• The absence of tension/controversy enhances development and focus.

3. Competition & Position Battles

Middle Linebacker ([10:09] - [11:52])

• Dorian Williams is being kept strictly on the outside—battle is now between Tyrel Dodson and Terrel Bernard.
  • Quote: “Dorian Williams has played nothing but the outside...It's between Tyrell and Tyrell. Let's just say Bernard and Dodson.” — Mike [10:14]
• Dodson appears to lead but Bernard is given genuine consideration.
  • Quote: “I would still say it's Dodson...But I don't think Bernard's out of it. I really don't.” — Mike [11:40]

Cornerback 2 & Safety ([13:01] - [19:23])

• Kair Elam, Christian Benford, and Taylor Rapp discussed as dynamic future safety/corner options.
  • Quote: “I don't know if Kair Elam's a safety. To me, I just look at it, he is a corner.” — Jenna [18:39]
• Elam has elite athleticism but penalty-prone, aggressive play is still an issue.

Defensive Line ([16:07] - [18:33]; [21:02] - [23:22])

• Boogie Basham remains quiet in camp (apart from the occasional deflected pass); Epenesa and Rousseau more visible.
  • Quote: “For him and this team, he's got to do more to show up because he has not made an impression, which is an impression in itself.” — Jenna [16:28]
• Epenesa and Basham seen as possibly competing for a single roster spot, especially with Von Miller’s PUP status looming.
• Ed Oliver impressing post-contract (“He looks really good so far.”—Mike [08:53])
• Shaq Lawson and Jordan Phillips (“an impactful piece”) provide important depth, but numbers game is fierce.

Offensive Line ([20:07] - [21:41])

• Osiris Torrence (rookie) is enormous and displays potential; progress is encouraging though starting is not guaranteed.
  • Quote: “And then there's Osiris Torrence, who's just wide. Wide. He called him a mountain.” — Jenna (quoting Dion Dawkins) [20:42]
• Spencer Brown picked up a minor injury ("nicked up"), status TBD.

4. Development & Veteran Influence

[06:22] - [07:14]; [09:17] - [10:09]

• Veteran mentorship, e.g., Dawkins coaching Rousseau.
• Rousseau and Leonard Floyd compared for size; Floyd praised for consistent sack production.
• Daryl Talley highlights value of D-line freeing up linebackers—a key for Matt Milano and whomever wins MLB.

5. Breaking Down Practice Highlights & Misleading Camp Narratives

[12:35] - [15:47]

• Hosts advise caution about viral tweets on isolated big plays: “Sometimes I think that's very misleading...” — Jenna [12:35]
• Example: Elam’s interception involved a potential uncalled hold, Allen quick to comment on it.
  • Quote: “[Josh Allen] said, well, the ref didn't call holding on that play. And then he laughed.” — Mike [13:08]
• Some plays “pop” but don’t tell the whole story—coaches review everything on film.

6. Fan Q&A Segment

[15:50] - [27:53]

• Topics: Boogie Basham’s camp, the future of the D-Line (Miller’s return, Epenesa vs. Basham, status of Phillips), Taylor Rapp’s role, Osiris Torrence’s potential, Jenna’s height, and… “meritocracy.”
• Great lighter moment: hosts joke about the word "meritocracy" and using it in a sentence, highlighting how the NFL is all about earning your spot.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I think of those core things, Milano’s in there. We’re going back to ‘17, right, when they brought all these guys in. And like Leo says, ‘I’m still here.’ They’re still here, and they’re prime players.” — Mike [04:01]
• On Boogie Basham: “He’s got to do more to show up because he has not made an impression, which is an impression in itself.” — Jenna [16:28]
• “Sometimes I think that’s very misleading because sometimes a hold could have been called and wasn’t called, or there’s just plays...” — Jenna [12:35]
• “The meritocracy that is Buffalo Plus, Dan Fates is last.” — Jenna [25:11] (in jest)
• “Sorry, Thad Brown...he got hit. And Thad stands on the sideline. He knows what it’s like. ...That ball comes at you.” — Mike [15:36]
• “Elam has elite athleticism, but penalty-prone, aggressive play is still an issue.” — Paraphrase, [19:23]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:15] Camp tone and “no nonsense” environment
• [03:45] Team core and Sean McDermott’s demeanor; leadership
• [07:14] Greg Rousseau’s development & D-line dynamics
• [09:17] Daryl Talley on the importance of D-line for linebackers
• [10:09] Middle linebacker battle: Dodson vs. Bernard
• [12:35] Discussion of misleading training camp narratives and tweets
• [13:08] Elam’s interception and Allen’s reaction
• [15:47] Practice highlights: Allen-to-Gabe bullet throw
• [15:50] Listener Q&A begins (Boogie Basham, D-line concerns)
• [20:15] Osiris Torrence’s physical attributes & O-line questions
• [23:41] “Is Jenna taller than Dan and Mike?” (Light/funny)
• [24:51] Meritocracy discussion—lighthearted ribbing

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Episode Tone & Style

• Casual, insightful, playful rapport between Jenna and Mike.
• Strong mix of granular analysis and personal anecdotes.
• Engaging, conversational, and often humorous, especially in Q&A; maintains a behind-the-scenes locker room feel.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

This camp update episode paints a picture of an energized, mature, and drama-free Buffalo Bills roster, with particular focus on position competitions (MLB, CB2, D-line, O-line) and leadership dynamics. The hosts’ unique access allows for nuanced views into the developmental arc of both established stars (Diggs, Allen, Hyde, Poyer) and emerging names, as well as candid takes on how fans should (or shouldn’t!) read into daily training camp buzz. The lively Q&A wraps up the pod on a friendly and self-deprecating note.

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For more Buffalo Bills coverage, check out Buffalo Plus on YouTube and social channels.

Transcript

[A]

Buffalo, your interactive look at the week.

[B]

In football, brought to you by Connors and Farris.

[A]

Nah, I wasn't stirring up. Y' all need to stay off my Twitter. That's a little weird.

[B]

Oh, one game closer. Let's go. Bill's mafia. What's up, baby?

[A]

I'd like to think I'm not too much of a psychopath. Y' all know we're hitting for you know what I mean? Rolls Royce driving, private jet flying. Thanks, everybody. Thank you. Go Bills.

[B]

All right, welcome Back to the Buffalo Plus YouTube channel, presented by Connors and Ferris. We're talking podcast today. Mike Catalana. I'm Jenna Cottrell. Please be sure to, like, comment and subscribe. And you might realize Dan Fates is not here, but he has the best reason why.

[A]

Yeah, he's a papa again for the second time. His wife Renee, the star of the family. Well, Shane and Renee are the stars of the family. And now the newest, ryan Paige Fates. Six pounds, 11 ounces, girl dad. Dan adds another girl.

[B]

And Ryan Page made a debut on a Bills off day who's already a part of the Buffalo plus fam, but really helping to support us all. So congratulations to Dan. If you want to wish it in the comments, he posted a couple of pictures as well on his Instagram and Twitter.

[A]

So keep in mind, Dan's to be taking some time off to be with his family, but you know, he's hot. Take Fates. So even he'll be feeding the baby and going off on something about the run game or the Atlanta Braves or whatever he happens to be tweeting about. So Dan will be around, but Jenna and I are holding down the fort for a while.

[B]

Yeah, the. The takes never stop, though, just so we're clear. No, we're. We're very excited for Dan and the family, but we know he wants to be at training camp, but obviously there's better reasons for him to be at home. But let's talk about camp because kind of another natural break in terms of where we're at. They have the blue and wet return of the blue and red scrimmage on Friday. Today is Thursday. We're also going to answer some questions coming up a bit later. But, Mike, as we kind of wrap on this week here ending at Fischer, what is kind of your takeaway from the last couple of days?

[A]

I have loved this camp. I think it has been a great camp. I think the nonsense is gone. It's funny. They came in with the whole Diggs thing, right? It was sort of hanging over everybody. Diggs Crushed that when he spoke, it ended. And from that point on, it has been a camp that I would say has great energy. Yeah, it's efficient. It's offense winning one day, defense another. I mean, McDermott talked about that. Like, when you're coaching that way, it's never a perfect day because you're coaching against your own team. But there's a balance to that. There has been no nonsense. There's no fights. I mean, last year we made a thing about it. They were constantly, like, going at it. This team is ready. I don't think they want that nonsense. I think they have been. It doesn't mean everything is perfect, but I think they have been efficient. We have seen players find their roles. The competition is going on. I think this camp is flying by.

[B]

Jenna, I completely agree. I feel like this camp, there's no distractions. Like, there's none of that stuff going on in terms of the fights on the field. Even the weather is really cooperated. Like, it's been beautiful weather, maybe some rain here and there, but, like, the weather's been really nice. And this team, I feel like they really do love being that underdog role. Like, I think everyone too, that there are some new faces out there, obviously, but these core group of guys, I just feel like it's time to go to work. It's that kind of mindset.

[A]

When I think about this team, you go to those core things, right? And they're back. I mean, it's Allen and Diggs.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's Poyer and Hyde. It's McDermott coaching defense. Right. Look, some of you may not love it. I think he's going to be fantastic as the DC in this. I think there's going to be maybe some things he has to deal with, but I think he's been fantastic in it. Trae White is back.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, think about those things. It doesn't mean there still aren't questions, doesn't mean there still aren't issues. But I think of those core things, Milano's in there. We're going back to 17, right. When they brought all these guys in. And like Leo says, I'm still here. They're still here, and they're prime players. So there are things you have to take care of. But, man, you take a breath and you go Digs and Allen, you take a breath and go Poyer and high, Trey White on the corner. I think all that has been great. While they're doing that, you say no distractions. They're able to focus on the other things, like Obviously middle linebacker, CB2. It's hilarious. Everybody tries to ask that question, and the players are like, what are you looking for? Even Sean joked about it.

[B]

He's been. He's been like, funny Sean still. Normally he kind of like, what's. It? Tightens down the bolts or something, the screws when the season starts, or in terms of, like, the preseason starts. But he's been laughing a lot.

[A]

I know he's been, like, interrupting, like, today, he was like.

[B]

He.

[A]

Didn't he call out? Was it Billy Buffalo?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So I start to ask him a question about.

[B]

He just didn't want to answer your question.

[A]

And he's like, you know, who's a mainstay? This guy over here. He's pointing at Billy Buffalo, like, this is Sean McDermott. I don't know. Maybe he's freed up as D.C. i don't know what it is, but I think there is a good vibe. It is a mix of competition, taking your job seriously, but also, you know, enjoying what they're going through here. And again, I think it has flown by. I think their pace is. It's really consistent, don't you think? It's basically the same amount of time every day. Players know what they're dealing with. They work on their day off. They go play golf on their day off.

[B]

Yeah, that's pretty sweet.

[A]

Lot of golfing. By the way, Von Miller was playing at a local country club. And I won't say any names, but I know of someone who may have had a golf cart too close to the vicinity of Von Miller. That's all I'm gonna say. Vaughn is fine. He was in touch, making sure he say that. But the story got to me that Vaughn. Like, we can't have Vaughn get hit by a golf cart. First of all, by the way, better be a big golf cart, because Vaughn is gonna bounce off of Vaughn in that case. But they do like the golf.

[B]

They do.

[A]

They do take off in golf. So they enjoy. They've enjoyed that vibe here. No doubt.

[B]

Yeah, I definitely agree. And I feel like with this team, like, we talked to Dion Dawkins yesterday, and we talked or two days ago, and we talked to Greg Russo this upcoming past day about, like, being able to, you know, you're going against the same team. But Dion talked to Greg Rousseau about, like, hey, you did this, and it might have felt like you won this rep, but actually, this is what happened and how to improve and things like that and kind of that mentorship. And we got to talk to Greg Rousseau today, and that's a guy that I know a lot of people have asked about just in terms of, like, how's he looking? What do you think? Is he developing? Eric Washington said he looks bigger and stronger coming into this camp this year. But I thought it was really interesting because you asked him, like, in that position, you are graded a lot of times by the stats. And if that's something that he pinpoints of, I want to do this, this and this for his goals. But I was kind of surprised by his answer.

[A]

He said he's a process guy, likes the process, and he's saying he's right. He actually admitted what we all kind of know. When you watch, he says sometimes you have a great game and you don't get a sack, you don't get the numbers, and other times you luck into them. He used the word you luck into them. That can happen in his case. But he's saying, if I'm doing the right thing, I'm impacting the game whether the stats come or not. And then he said, look, dn like, I want to get as many sacks as I can, because you are judged by that and sometimes you're paid by that. Like, what did we all talk about with Leonard Floyd coming in and saying, this guy puts up double digits every year.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

His process is also good, by the way. I'm going to say it's close, man. Height wise.

[B]

I was going to ask that and I didn't. But who is taller?

[A]

I'm going to still say Rousseau.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

But Leonard Floyd is a tall, rangy, athletic D end. Like, it's an odd dynamic they have on that D end. When Von comes in, it'll be different because Vaughn is just a monster. Yeah, but you have these taller, thinner, athletic ends and then you have Ed in the middle on the D line who is undersized for his position. By the way, we were supposed to talk to Ed today. That didn't work out. Yeah, I have seen Ed look impactful and I know it's camp.

[B]

I agree, though.

[A]

But, man, I see him in the backfield. I see him with energy. He got paid. We know he got paid. But I think Ed is such a key player for them this year. They've committed to him. He's got to show more results. He looks really good so far.

[B]

He has. And he's had a couple flashes where you're like, well, that would have been a sack. That would have been a sack. Even Eric Washington, though, said, yeah, he got paid, but he needs to play like, it's still a contract. Season. And I think from what we've seen in the sample size of this past summer, he has made some flashes where you're like, oh, there's Ed. Yeah, there's Ed. You see also, you just see him dancing all the time. I love it. He always brings that personality.

[A]

Yeah. But we talked to Darryl Talley today.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I mean, I've known Daryl for 30 some odd years and he's the best and he looks great. I'm happy for him. He's doing well. And you asked him about this team and what they need to do and he said, you need those big linemen up front to take guys off of the linebackers because he's always thinking like a linebacker. We talk about what the linebackers can do in terms of this defense, but nothing makes you a better linebacker more than not having to deal with blocks all the time. I think Daquan Jones really does a good job of that. When they've got a. When they've got to worry about him, Ed can be that guy, too. Let Milano run free and not be taken on blockers and then you see how many plays he can make. So whoever wins that middle linebacker spot, go ahead.

[B]

No, I think it's down to two.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's absolutely. For people who are not here, it's.

[A]

Dorian Williams has played nothing but the outside and that's what they're figuring. We thought maybe they saw something they liked in the spring and they were going to give him a shot. I think they're basically saying, stay on the outside. Maybe that's what he ends up being. It looks like the case, but you're right. It's between Tyrell and Tyrell.

[B]

And Tyrell.

[A]

Tyrell and Tyrell. Let's just say Bernard and Dodson.

[B]

Yeah, Bernard and Dodson.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which I think we all kind of expected that to be the case.

[A]

Yeah. And I would still say it's Dodson. Now, I thought it was interesting today and I asked a couple other guys ago, I didn't really see that much in it. But when Sean said, with a guy like Dodson, we've seen him, but we don't know what he will be in all these circumstances, which is fair.

[B]

You have not seen that.

[A]

You saw Tremaine Edmonds game after game after game. And in this defense, you've seen Matt Milano game after, you know what you're getting. They knew what they were getting with Terrell Dodson as a backup.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Now, it's all the snaps, all the plays, week in, week out. So I think that leaves A window open for Bernard. I don't know if he's going to be able to show enough, but I do think it leaves a window, or at least the perception that this is going to still take a few more weeks before they make the call on it. Sean has really been adamant, like, he wants to make these calls on the early side. And I know they trust Dodson with the play calls and all those things, but I don't think Bernard's out of it. I really don't. I think he's got a shot, though. I would say Dodson is definitely the leader approaching the clubhouse.

[B]

I completely agree with that. I mean, you saw today Terrell Bernard take some of those. Can we say that?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. The first team.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Okay. Okay. I always. I always get nervous, but he was taking some first.

[A]

Like, we see it, we know it.

[B]

And then there's people here who see it.

[A]

Yeah. And they don't want us giving away strategy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I guess there's some parts of it that are sort of strategy. Some of this stuff kind of comes out, like is. It takes some brilliant strategy to figure out there's times when Knox and Kincaid are going to be on the field at the same time. It's like every play that you see.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I think all that stuff goes on. But yes, they've been mixing the snaps there. And I think you're right. I think it's close.

[B]

I have a hot take. Oh. So you might see tweets out there about so and so had this type of play. So and so had this type of play. Sometimes I think that's very misleading because sometimes a hold could have been called and wasn't called or there's just plays where it's like that that play happened because it allowed it, like, unfolded where it was able to happen. But that could have been a sack or stuff like that.

[A]

There was one today. Good for Kyrie Lim. He got an interception. Josh Allen was asked about it. And what's the first thing he said?

[B]

I don't remember.

[A]

He said, well, the ref didn't call holding on that play. And then he laughed. But I mean, in terms of that, like, that kind of stuff happens and sometimes, again, these things get. I mean, look, I was happy for Demar Hamlin to get an interception yesterday, and he did. The ball got tipped up and it came right to him. Caught it, ran it back.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, cool. But it doesn't. Demar might have made five plays better than that on the day. This one happens to be interception. I think you're right. I think sometimes there is just circumstances. Hey, in a real game, none of the circumstances matter. Correct. Whatever you get, you get. But I think in that case, this.

[B]

Just doesn't unfold in the way a normal game would. So sometimes when you see that stuff, it's like, oh, okay. Huh. It says, battery near full. We have 30 minutes left. It says, ah, we're fine. All right, sorry, we'll keep. We'll keep talking. But yeah, that's just something where I see that and I get a little frustrated because I'm like, well, yeah, he did have an interception, but that definitely.

[A]

Was a. Oh, I saw a play today. We were standing in the corner of the end zone. I think you were still there because you were moving around the field. And Josh, again, Jenna was shooting today. He can't shoot these plays. Josh moved, and when I say, I happen to be able to see it right from behind. He hit Gabe before Gabe made the turn, and he threw a rope between two defenders. Very small window. And from our position, there was a few of us standing there. You felt like he was throwing the ball to you. I mean, because it's coming and that ball is. When I say a rope, it was on fire. It was a perfect throw in a tight window that we know Josh isn't afraid to do, but we see it. And even you guys see it on tv and it's great. Standing in that position and you've seen it from on the field is awesome. And it was a great throw. And he and Gabe were on the same page and they made the play.

[B]

Yeah, and there's plays like that where you're. They're so close to you. I feel like you have to run away. Cuz you're like, oh, my God. The way the velocity at which Josh Allen throws the ball, and you're like, if he doesn't catch that, I'm gonna die.

[A]

It feels like that almost, but it's velocity. Velocity. But it's a catchable ball.

[B]

But it's pinpointed. Yes, that's a good way to put it. But you know what I'm talking about, where you're like. Or if that pops off of Gabe Davis's fingers, let's say, and it's coming at you, even on the ricochet would hurt.

[A]

Well, on a ricochet it could hit you. Sorry, Thad Brown, he's a friend of.

[B]

Ours, that's a stray.

[A]

He. He got hit. And Thad stands on the sideline. He knows what it's like. But he said to us, like, man, that ball comes at you. So he's all right, by the way.

[B]

Thanks.

[A]

He's okay. Yeah.

[B]

All right, let's get to some questions.

[A]

Okay. We got a few questions on here. C. Brown. This was on our channel, on the YouTube channel. So you can always ask us a question.

[B]

Appreciate.

[A]

What's up with Boogie Now? I saw Boogie make a play today. Deflected a pass, knocked it up in the air. Good to see. What do you think's up with Boogie?

[B]

The only thing that strikes me about Boogie is that he wears 55, which is what Jerry Hughes used to wear. Yeah. Other than that, I. I'm gonna be honest with you. I have not noticed him at all. I've seen A.J. obviously, Greg Russo, but in terms of Boogie, I just have not seen any type of flash or anything like that. He made a play today.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So there's that. But for him and this team, he's got to do more to show up because he has not made an impression, which is an impression in itself.

[A]

He's. He does have the ability to play inside and outside. I'm almost thinking it's like utility infielder kind of thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, you're just not. You can play second and short, but you're not starting at either spot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, they need one of those guys.

[B]

They do.

[A]

And we talk about this all the time. AJ Epanessa made a play today. Great. You're in the last year of a deal. Like, I hope AJ Has a long career in the NFL.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know for sure whether it's here in Buffalo. I mean, he's had some opportunities. They need something out of it. I put those two together because they're second round picks.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They are a year apart there. And it's kind of like, okay, what do we have here? And they need more production out of one or the other. I'm looking at this D line, and I'm saying, do both of them make the team?

[B]

I don't think so. I think it's a one. One. This is my early observation. It's a one or the other. Now, I will say, because they are both draft picks and the amount of draft capital that the Bills have invested in their D line, that obviously gives them a larger Runway or a longer Runway.

[A]

And Vaughn may very well start the year on the pup.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which opens up a spot there. So could be the case. But, like, come on, this is the NFL.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you got to be ready. You have to be ready to play. Okay. Steve Angora said he thinks Elam And Rapp are a future safety duo. I find that interesting. Taylor Rapp, a lot of questions today about his role. People have talked about him being doing multiple things, versatility, all those things they love. They did sign him as a safety. He's a hitter. I think he's a physical player, but this is a guy who's used to playing. I think they're going to find ways to get him on the field, but he is a safety. Kyrie Elam, I don't know how you feel about this. I see some guys as future safeties, potentially. I mean, we've heard about Christian Benford.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know if Kyrie Elam's a safety.

[B]

I don't. I think he's. To me, I just look at it, he is a corner.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That is what. And I feel like at some point, don't you think the Bills would want to start that transition sooner rather than later?

[A]

I mean, they talked about it with Benford, then they made these moves and then obviously Poyer came back and all those kind of things. Some guys, it just works. You can just see it in the way they play. I think it's some technique stuff with Elam, physically, he can play in this league.

[B]

He physically is so athletic, but he looks like an athlete. Playing corner, where I feel like Benford looks like he might not be as athletic, but he's more intuitive.

[A]

Didn't you say that? Was Elam listed as the fastest player on the team? Were we looking at something like that?

[B]

Isn't that Madden?

[A]

Yeah. And I was like, again, that's great to have that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it's ball skills. It's. Yes, he's handsy. He is. And he's gotten in trouble for it. He grabs.

[B]

I mean, that was on his draft profile, though.

[A]

Yeah. That's the way he plays. And when you're a young player, you don't get away with that stuff. They call it all the time and even out here they see it. And so I know you don't want to get beat, but if they're throwing a flag, you're just giving them yardage. So in terms of that. Steve, I don't. I think they always look that way. They like that versatility, what guys can play. I think you rarely see a guy go from safety to corner. Corner is more of a unique skill set. But Rapp's going to play for this team and maybe think more Benford down the line. Bad Dobby says, what do we see?

[B]

I'm assuming that's bad. Bad Dobby okay, we're gonna go.

[A]

Dobby, what do you see from Osiris? You take this. Osiris Torrance.

[B]

So I asked Dion. I'm like, so, you know, what are your impressions of Osiris Torrance? And he's like. He said it in the most Dion way possible, but he's like, you know, I think back to Richie, and Richie was like, you know, incognito. Richie incognito, yes. Who was like a bigger guy, but he had kind of smaller arms. And then I think of Roger Saffold last year, a slimmer guy who had, you know, wide arms, and he was like. And then there's Osiris Torrance, who's just wide. Wide. He called him a mountain.

[A]

He is a huge man. I mean, there's stories you've seen where he was £400 as a young guy. Very young. Football is what got him in shape. And I think they love his potential because that size is. Can be really impactful for an athlete.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I wonder, though, if he's progressed. It's early.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, like, they know he can come around. I think they like what they see, but I think they have to love what they see to give him that shot. Well, I want to see when the real games go, when they're really playing, even in the preseason. Let's see what they've got there. But I think he still has some work to do. But he's a mountain.

[B]

He's just. He's so big.

[A]

And by the way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, no, go ahead. I interrupted you there. I was. I was playing the part of Dan today.

[B]

Played by Dan Fitz. No, I just think he is so big, and you want to see him be able to use that size and that, you know, I mean, he's just a big dude.

[A]

He's a mountain.

[B]

Yeah, he's a mountain.

[A]

B needs to hit on one of these offensive linemen. I mean, he does. He just does. And so this would be. This would be a good place, you know, and, you know, to bring in one of those guys. You know, I know Spencer Brown got nicked up today. We don't know any of the details of it.

[B]

I did not see that.

[A]

I was just saying, so, you know, them being in Buffalo on Friday, we'll find out a little bit more about it. But he got nicked up today. But he needs to be good, and then they need to figure out the rest of it. But initial thoughts are, big player, a lot of potential, but I don't know if that leads to starting. Any update on Jordan Phillips. This came from Justin. He's still in the puppet. I see him on the sidelines working out. It does not appear to be any huge rush to get him on the field again. When we talk about numbers on the D line, they may be thinking in terms of another guy who. I don't know. Could he start the year on the PUP list? I don't know. But, you know, as you go further along, it might be another week or two and then they go. He's ready to go. Might not be until they're back in Orchard park that he gets on there. But I will wait to see. It's going to be. It is going to be a numbers thing on that D line.

[B]

Oh, absolutely. Sorry. Also, I was just looking up Jordan Phillips torn rotator cuff. So that's shoulder. What that means for him getting back. We've seen him work out, though, quite a bit, and he looks to be in the same type of shape that we've seen him be before. But obviously the numbers game, that is the defensive line. But let's be real. He has been an impactful piece. And him with Shaq Lawson and just what their productivity and what that's been able to bring kind of as guys who were kind of signed on, like, yeah, we'll see what you can do type of thing.

[A]

Yeah. And they're the ones still fighting against the draft picks.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And there's going to be a point, by the way, I wonder if Jordan Phillips golf game was because.

[B]

Has been impacted.

[A]

He's a.

[B]

He's a phenomenal golfer.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, the shoulder. Okay. Two more questions. Savin says, is Jenna taller than Dan and Mike?

[B]

No, I am not.

[A]

No. But I'm getting shorter as I get older, so it's happening. But no, Jenna is a relatively tall person. But you are not a giant.

[B]

I'm not. I'm five, nine. And you're taller.

[A]

Nine and a half, Maybe five, ten. And Dan. Whatever Dan says he. He'll say he's. Because he doesn't say.

[B]

He doesn't say he's six foot.

[A]

No way. No way.

[B]

Because he's definitely not.

[A]

Basically. He's. We're basically the same height. Like, he's not. No, but we are slightly taller now. It'll be a lot of years before Dan starts getting shorter.

[B]

If he stands on his hot takes, though.

[A]

Oh, my God. He's seven feet tall. He is. All right. And the last question, and this is my favorite one, came from Locker Mart, who said he wants to see either Dan or. Since he's not here. Jenna, use the word meritocracy in a sentence Now. I used that word yesterday or two days ago. Two days ago. And you two went right by and I said, no one responds. I say meritocracy, and you both said, I don't know what that means. So now you've learned it. Can you use that word in a sentence?

[B]

Can you use it in a sentence? I don't remember exactly what it means. It means. Okay, okay, okay, okay. So of the. The buffalo plus the meritocracy, that is buffalo plus Dan Fates is last.

[A]

Wow, that's a shot.

[B]

Is that not.

[A]

So it's based on basically earning your spot.

[B]

Okay, wait, that was so harsh. I didn't think it was a. I thought it was, like.

[A]

So currently, since he's not here in our. Who's getting the reps?

[B]

Oh, Dan, I feel bad. I'm, like, blushing right now. I feel bad. That's.

[A]

It's. It's the idea of it is a earned thing, the NFL.

[B]

Wait, in terms of time with 13 Wham, though.

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

That's what it is.

[A]

It's meritocracy. It is like, you step in who. It doesn't matter who's been here longer. It's like. Because if that was the case. No, it's about. It's earning snapshot. It's how Christian Benford started ahead of Kyer Elam last year.

[B]

So it's like the opposite of nepotism.

[A]

1,000%. It is. Exactly. In fact, if you look it up, a lot of times they'll say nepotism is basically. It's who you are. And in this case, it is earning your snap. In this case, snaps or in our case, reps. Like, you're the host.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You've earned the host role. Because I'm being comfortable with.

[B]

No, I'm not a hot taker. I had a hot take this time around.

[A]

You did.

[B]

Mostly just because I get frustrated sometimes because I'm like, that's not. It's kind of misleading. And if I'm a fan looking at that online, I'm like, oh, maybe you read into things a little bit differently now. Some of those plays did happen like we talked about, but that's just a pet peeve of mine.

[A]

Yeah. And it's moments that you see there's no way. The only way you see everything is the way the coaches do. Everything is on tape. They're recording everything. And they are making sure that when they go over, those, like the camera don't lie. Every player knows Every rep is recorded, every drill is recorded. And when they see players not doing what they need to do, they have it. So the coach can't be everywhere. Sometimes we ask Sean about things and, like, he's not seeing every snap right in front of him. At least at camp, they stay away from. We can't until we see the film. But the reality is those coaches are grinding over the film. They are watching what guys are doing and they are seeing them all over this field to see who earns the spot. So while you as a fan or us as a reporter may see a guy run down the field, you know when a guy we're going to talk about later in this week is Trent Sherfield.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Because I think he's shown a lot. But if we see Sherfield with a touchdown, that may be great. But we don't know really what he did in some of the other drills, the one on one stuff, what he's done on teams, all those things that play into it. So the coaches really know. Doesn't mean they always get it right. But the meritocracy part is earn it, earn it, earn it. And in the NFL, undrafted first round pick, it might get a little bit of an edge, but then it's.

[B]

I'm sorry. I'm so focused. I feel so bad. I didn't realize. I thought it was like, in terms of experience.

[A]

No, no, no, no. That's a dis.

[B]

I misunderstood. I thought it was experience as opposed to.

[A]

It's basically earning your way.

[B]

Dan's gonna kill me. Dan is.

[A]

You know, he's gonna watch this.

[B]

I know. Oh, I feel bad. Okay. Dan. Well, he knows also that I don't. I don't know what the word meritocracy means. All right, For Dan, who's not here, and baby Ryan Page, who we're all very excited, has been welcomed into the world also. Mama and baby are doing well, which we always love to hear from Mike Catalana. I am Jenna Cottrell. I will never use the word meritocracy again in a sentence. It I. That's the last time. All right, Please be sure to, like, comment and subscribe. We'll catch you next time here on Buffalo. Plus, I feel so bad. I. That is so harsh.