Buffalo Bills preview of statement game against Bengals

Summary

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Buffalo Plus: Buffalo Bills Podcast

Episode: Bills Preview Statement Game Against Bengals
Date: November 2, 2023
Hosts: Mike Catalana, Jenna Cottrell, Dan Fetes

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Overview

This episode delivers an in-depth preview of the highly anticipated Buffalo Bills matchup against the Cincinnati Bengals on Sunday Night Football. The hosts discuss the resurgence of the Bengals as a top AFC contender, the psychological and tactical challenges for the Bills, and the lingering impact of last season's traumatic Damar Hamlin incident in Cincinnati. The conversation features insider locker room perspectives, roster and schematic analysis, and candid reflection on team confidence and identity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bengals’ Resurgence and Team Chemistry

• The Bengals started the season poorly, largely due to Joe Burrow’s calf injury but are now hitting stride with a three-game winning streak.
• Mike Catalana highlights the turnaround:
  “When you see a team that gets hot…that’s had the success the Bengals have had…you feel like they've found that gear where they belong.” (01:13)
• Defensive backs observed improved “chemistry” in the Bengals—timing and confidence are clearly back.
  Dan Fetes: “That's that dangerous level of Burrow's healthy, confidence, chemistry…they’re playing like how they're supposed to play.” (02:04)

2. The Challenge of Facing a ‘Statement’ Opponent

• The Bills are facing the Bengals “at their best.” The matchup is seen as more than just a game; it's a psychological and symbolic challenge.
• Discussion on the Bills’ need to overcome psychological scars from recent lopsided defeats to the Bengals:
  • Jordan Phillips’ mindset: “I'm more focused on a team that has kicked our ass the last two times…Let’s not forget about that.” (04:24)
  • Dan Fetes: “Getting off to a fast start…is important psychologically, because if they throw the first punch again, it's like, 'Oh, here we go again.’” (05:32)

3. Confidence, Swagger, and Leadership

• The Bengals exude outward “cockiness,” especially with Burrow and head coach Zac Taylor, compared to the Bills’ more reserved confidence.
• Mike Catalana: “I like the arrogance and cockiness that the Bengals have. The Bills could use a little bit of that.” (05:55)
• Contrast between QB personalities:
  • Dan Fetes: “Burrow says it with this baby face, goofy clothing, outrageous apparel…and says it with a straight face…Josh shows much more emotion.” (08:55)

4. The Underdog Factor

• For the first time in 27 games, the Bills are underdogs (since the 2021 playoff game in Kansas City).
• Jenna Cottrell: “Do you think that adds a little extra motivation?”
  • Mike Catalana: “Oh, yeah. You look for any single thing to motivate you on this.” (18:35)
• The sense of urgency is heightened—this game is seen as a test not only of standing but of identity.

5. Bills’ Offensive Identity and Adjustments

• The Bills offense recently shifted to more up-tempo, spread concepts resembling those used under Brian Daboll, leading to increased production.
• Dan Fetes: “They literally scrapped everything that they had been doing the entire season and went back to Brian Dable’s system and it worked…Now the Bengals saw you go up tempo...how do you now throw the counter punch?” (13:09)
• Concerns remain about the offense’s lack of a defined identity mid-season.
  • Jenna: “The Bills still don’t have an identity and we’re halfway through the season…Is that a concern?” (15:26)
  • Mike: “Yes, but they’ve had moments. They just need to highlight the things they do well and be ready to adjust.” (15:44)
• Will the Bills dictate pace, or wait to adjust to Cincinnati’s defense?

6. Secondary Playmakers & Defensive Matchups

• The importance of “secondary receivers stepping up” and providing support for Diggs.
  • Jenna: “Usually is the teller of whether this team wins or loses is how involved the other guys get.” (17:33)
• Discussion of Bengals’ reliance on Jamar Chase, with T. Higgins not fully healthy.
  • Mike: “It’s been the Jamar Chase Show…he’s averaging 90 yards, roughly 90 a game.” (17:54)
• Anticipation around how new addition Rasul Douglas and the rotation at safety will factor in and how Von Miller’s role may shift.
  • Dan: “I still have tempered expectations for Von…much more for Ed [Oliver]…He is the most important piece on the Bills defense.” (22:54)

7. Emotional Resonance: Return to Cincinnati After the Hamlin Incident

• The return to Cincinnati evokes strong emotions for players and staff; how will the Bills compartmentalize trauma and focus on football?
• Dan: “It's just going to be weird to go back to that field...we have talked about the elephant in the room.” (35:53)
• Mike: “It went from a tragedy to a triumph…there’s no such thing as normal anymore.” (39:29)
• Recognition of the support from fans and growth in CPR awareness stemming from the incident:
  • Brandon Beane: “There’s a lot to be thankful for…there’s a lot to be proud of...the CPR awareness and all the good that has come out.” (40:22)

8. The Stakes: Season Trajectory and AFC Standings

• Game implications: a win could swing the season back on track and set the tone for a tough schedule ahead.
  • Mike: “This is a prove-it-that-you-figured-something-out game.” (34:04)
• If the Bills lose a high-scoring “shootout,” there’s some optimism; if the offense sputters, genuine concern arises.
  • Dan: “If they lose this game, 35-32…I’d like a puncher’s chance…If they lose 17-13, I’ll be more concerned because I want this offense to have some success against this Bengals defense.” (29:04)
• Discussed Bengals’ ability to force turnovers and build confidence on defense:
  • Mike: “In their four wins, they have had 11 turnovers for the defense…they're turning the ball over. It’s a confident team. You know how you stop that confidence? You go punch him in the mouth.” (30:20/30:34)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jordan Phillips (paraphrased by Dan): “Demar’s got to handle his things. We will handle it as well. But I’m more focused on a team that has kicked our ass the last two times.” (04:24)
• Mike Catalana: “I like the arrogance and cockiness that the Bengals have…that's why people trust them in big spots.” (05:55)
• Dan Fetes: “They literally scrapped everything…went back to Brian Daboll’s system and it worked.” (13:09)
• Mike Catalana: “There’s no steady identity to what they've had. But on the plus side, they have shown moments of greatness with this offense.” (15:54)
• Dan Fetes: “Ed [Oliver] is the Matt Milano of the Bills defense. He is the most important piece.” (22:54)
• Mike Catalana: “These guys are human…there’s just time. I know Demar is going to be there. He should be there. I think there’s going to be moments…But when the play starts, they play football, which is impressive.” (36:59)
• Dan Fetes (re the offense against Bengals’ D): “Can you have the 95 mph fastball…What is your off-speed pitch off of that? Because Lou Amarillo has dominated you for these last two games. You need to throw a wrench into his game plan.” (14:22)
• Jenna Cottrell: “I personally think that the Bengals will win this game, but I think how this game goes really sets the tone for the way you look at the rest of the season.” (27:46)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Bengals resurgence, chemistry: 01:13 – 03:30
• Bills' recent struggles vs. Bengals, psychological impact: 04:24 – 05:55
• Swagger and confidence—Burrow vs. Allen: 05:55 – 09:51
• Bills as underdogs, playoff context: 10:35 – 12:05
• Offensive adjustments, identity debate: 13:09 – 15:44
• Secondary receivers’ importance & defensive context: 17:33 – 18:18
• Von Miller expectations & Ed Oliver’s role: 22:13 – 25:09
• Return to Cincinnati and Hamlin incident aftermath: 35:53 – 40:22
• Game’s playoff and emotional stakes: 34:04 – 34:49, 29:04 – 30:20

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Key Takeaways

• The Bengals are peaking at the right time, presenting a formidable psychological and tactical challenge.
• The Bills' offense has made promising adjustments but still faces questions of identity and adaptability.
• Past defeats to Cincinnati remain a source of motivation and doubt—Sunday night is about changing that narrative.
• The game’s emotional layer, returning to where Damar Hamlin collapsed, is real and acknowledged by both players and coaches.
• The game serves as a litmus test for where the Bills stand in the crowded AFC race.

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Transcript

[A]

Last year, Mike did a story and had to explain why his name is Joe Shiesty. And I thought, here's Mike Catalana talking about Joe Shiesty. This is, this is the content that people come to Buffalo plus for. This is the Buffalo plus plus podcast brought to you by.

[B]

All right, welcome Back to the Buffalo Plus YouTube channel, presented by Connors and Ferris, Mike Catalana, Dan Fates, I am Johnny Cottrell. Please be sure to like, comment and subscribe to the channel. We always appreciate it. We're going to talk Bills, Bengals, this matchup. Big time matchup, Sunday Night Football. These two teams meeting again, a lot to discuss about this Bengals team, where they're at, where the Bills are at, and how we think Sunday night will go. So, Mike, I want to start with you because we know so much about this Bills team, but if you have been kind of watching from far away, the Bengals didn't have a great start to the year, but it seems like Joe Burrow's calf is moving in the right direction. And this team, they've won three in a row. What do you think about this group heading as they go and host the Bills on Sunday?

[C]

You know what, Jenna? Sometimes when you see a team that gets hot a little bit, you can dismiss it in the NFL because that can happen. But when you see a team that's had the success the Bengals have had get hot, you feel like they've found that gear where they belong. I talked to Dan Horde, the play by play guy at the Bengals, and he told me it's as simple as Joe Burrow. You just said it, being able to move. He said he was a statue for three weeks and they just couldn't get anything done offensively. And then he started to come back and started to come back and you know, Jamar Chase is playing great and the offense is moving, the defense is turning people over. Look, it's November. This is when you want to start playing your best. And with Burrow playing that way, Dan, what do I say? It's not just who you play, it's when you play them. The Bills are catching the Bengals when they're playing their best.

[A]

Yeah, we asked some of the defensive backs because, you know, he talks about the demar thing, which we can get into, but the fact of the this is going to be the most potent offense the Bills have faced with the wide receiving core and Joe Burrow and all of those things. And we asked Dean Jackson, like, what looks different? Like what looks different from the first five weeks compared to the last two to Three weeks. And he said, chemistry. And I give us credit, you know, in the media scrum, we asked him, like, well, how can you see chemistry on film? Like. Like that's. What do you mean? And he goes, it's timing. It's the fact that, like, things are clicking again. Like they do things, they're doing things again that they did before when everything was going well. So it. It. That's that dangerous level of Burrow's healthy confidence, chemistry, all of those things. And Mike, like, to your point, like, this isn't a upand cominging team that is playing good football. Like, this is a Super bowl caliber team that is playing like how they're supposed to play. Those first few weeks, Burrow injured, defense looked horrendous, couldn't do anything offensively. This is who the Bengals are. This is what drives Brandon being nuts, is that this is the way that this team is constructed, makes them constantly dangerous to get hot and play at this caliber.

[B]

I think with this team too, with the Bengals, when they were playing so poorly early on, you. You always had the inclination that, like, they will figure it out. They will figure it out. They'll get it together. And I think you see with Joe Burrow becoming healthier and the. The team kind of settling into stuff and that added chemistry and what that does for a team's confidence as well, being able to string together these wins. I think too, like, there was a lot that was going on in that playoff game that the Bills had against the Bengals. Obviously a lot on the Bill's mind. But at the same moment, when those two teams met on the field that day, the Bengals and where they were at and just the level of play from the beginning of the game, Mike, that is what scares me because we've seen this Bills team kind of struggle to get going, especially offensively. And it's hard to beat a team when you struggle to score and they're coming out the gate red hot.

[A]

You know, I don't mean to cut you, but again, we'll talk about the demar Hamlin and the emotion because we asked Jordan Phillips about that, the fast start and how you'll handle the emotions of this game and Jordan being respectful, Phillips being a respectful guy, being like, demar's got to handle his things. We will handle it as well. We may not know until we get there. You kind of have a plan, all those things. Yeah. He goes, I'm more focused on a team that has kicked our ass the last two times. Like, there's all this other stuff that's going on. Brandon Bean said, too, you're human. You know what happened on that field the last time you were there. But there's a football game and we're trying to win it, and we're trying to keep the main thing. The main thing is kind of what he said. And then you have Jordan Phillips being like, yeah, they kicked their ass the last two times. Like, let's not forget about that. And before that, before the DeMar incident, Mike, that place was electric. That was a Monday night game in Cincinnati. And it was. There was so much chirping before the players even were fully introduced. Like, the Bills players were, like, waiting at midfield as the Bengals were getting introduced. I was like, there's gonna be a fight before this game starts. And you're right. Jordan Phillips is right. They kicked their ass. They kicked their ass twice. Kicked their ass for eight straight quarters. And that's why I think getting off to a fast start to Jenna's point is important psychologically, because if they throw the first punch again, it's like, oh, here we go again. In my opinion.

[C]

Yeah, I. I like the arrogance and cockiness that the Bengals have.

[A]

Same.

[C]

I think the Bills could use a little bit of that. I think Josh obviously has confidence in himself. Burrow says more of it. Right. Because obviously Burrow thinks highly of himself. He should. He's a great player. I think Zach Taylor speaks with a confidence. I mean, he came out this week and he was like, we knew that San Francisco had won their last 11 at home. We knew Buffalo had only ever lost one home playoff game in their history. That motivates our guys. There's part of me that just, you got to be who you are. But I think that's why the Bengals have done well against the Chiefs, too, because we've done well, you know, as well as you're going to do against them. You know, and fighting them every game comes down to a field goal. With those two is I. They got that little cockiness, and it works for them. I think they follow the lead. I'm not saying the Bills aren't confident. Diggs has confidence. These guys know they can play. But I. I like that in the Bengals, and I think that's why people trust them in big spots.

[B]

But do you think you have to be outwardly cocky, like the Bills aren't outwardly cocky, But I still believe that they believe they can be anyone that they line up.

[C]

They believe they can. You're right. The Bengals have done it.

[B]

Yes. I agree. So do you think that also, though Contributes to their confidence. And they're out 100%. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. More.

[A]

They've been there before. They have beaten the Chiefs in the playoffs to go to a Super Bowl. They have been within a drive of winning it all. Like, they have that swagger and confidence because they've done it. Yeah, they get. And they get more of a pass because of those things. Like, when they start slow, they're like, well, they. You know, same thing. When the Chiefs, like, oh, the Chief's offense doesn't look like it's going well. It will because they've done it for the last five years. That's where I think Bill's fans get upset. But, like, why does things get. Why do we get treated differently? Because those teams have done it. And once you've done it, it's a different ball game. But until you reach that point, you're always going to be treated a little differently.

[B]

But I think that's why I'm not surprised that the Bills act the way they do in the media and they're not as outwardly cocky because they know that they haven't done it. They can still have all the confidence in the world, but I guess I'm not surprised by how they show up for reporters and stuff like that.

[C]

Yeah, I. I think Burrows had this since before he did it.

[B]

He also won a national championship at lsu. Yeah, I think that contributes as well.

[A]

But. But you're right, it is. It's funny because it's not this. They're so similar. I feel like in. In one way, Jenna with Burrow and Alan.

[B]

And Alan.

[A]

But in different ways, Joe has. So Joe has this quiet arrogance to him. And. And Josh is more fiery, I feel like. And intense in that way. But, you know, you have Burrow sitting there at press conferences, being like our super bowl windows. As long as I'm here, like, you're. You will never hear Josh say that. That's just not. That's just not who he is. So it is that different level. And it's also the fact of. Burrow says it with this baby face, goofy clothing, like, outrageous apparel, and just as like. And says it with a straight face, like, monotone, where you have. Josh shows much more emotion. Burrow is. He's Joe cool. Like, that's. That's who he is. It's just unfazed a lot of the time. So where they have that. That elite level of confidence, they do it in different ways.

[C]

You know, one thing. Burrow. I don't think Burrow can pull off hoodie and sport coat.

[B]

I remember seeing him at the super bowl, Super Bowl 50 party when he was still at LSU. We were in Miami and he was wearing a leather jacket. And I was like, that guy does not lack confidence.

[A]

Last year, Mike did a story and had to explain why his name is Joe Shiesty. And I thought, here's Mike Catalana talking about Joe Shiesty. This is, this is the content that people come to Buffalo plus for.

[C]

Yeah. Hey, look. And when I say that I'm. I'm not. I think the Bills will get there, but I think you're right, Janet. It needs to be like, go in and win Sunday night.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

That doesn't put you in the Super Bowl. It doesn't even get you in the playoffs. It doesn't do any of that other than we went to Cincinnati when they were playing their best and we knocked them off. And this is the first time the Bills have been. I'm going to ask, you know, Dan, Dan's, you know, Uncle Dan. This first time they've been underdogs since.

[A]

When Underdogs since they went to Kansas City in 2021.

[C]

They won that game.

[A]

And they won that game. That was the game with the weather delay, I believe.

[B]

I don't remember that one. With the weather delay.

[A]

Emmanuel Sanders.

[B]

Was that the first game after the AFC championship?

[C]

Yes. Yeah. It was the under enlightenment that stopped the game. Yeah. One again in 22. But wait a minute. Were they, were they not underdogs when they went to Kansas City last year?

[A]

I don't think so because that was the big thing about. They can't believe Mahomes is an underdog.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. Well, that's about the Bengals or about the Chiefs. I'm just saying is. Jenna, I think the Bills, look, they, you know, record wise, they righted the ship a little bit. Went in on Thursday. Right. They got to five and three. But this game is huge. Not just in the standings, not just with what the Bills have coming up, but head to head with the Bengals.

[B]

Yeah. I will say I was thinking about Brandon Bean said yesterday at one point during his press conference, like, the team's at 5 and 3. I still believe in them. They haven't been run out of the gym, any of that. And to me, that stuck out because I'm like, you've been good enough. You haven't been great. But Sunday is an opportunity. Like, we talk so much about, like, is this game a barometer or a measuring stick game or any of these things. But I think Sunday does give the opportunity to see. We've seen the Bills play fine to good against the Dolphins. They played great, but that seems like eons ago. So it's like where is this team at right now? And, and you have a tough stretch of your schedule coming up. And Dan, I think Sunday really can indicate where this team needs to get better, how they need to do it and then also like just where the mental, I feel like the mentality of this team is at as well. Like can they go in and win a gritty game or can they do a track meet? Like where is, where is the head space of this offense at?

[A]

Yeah, it's a great question. And for as much as I loved Ken Dorsey dressing up as Brian Dable for Halloween and just calling a phenomenal game against the Bucks, we were driving home and I think it was Monday. Mike, you and I were talking about it and then I was like this is great. And Mike, you raised concerns about the fact of and Sean McDermott did back in week going into week seven where he said this is what teams make adjustments. Like it's this, this is the cat and mouse game of defensive coordinators and offensive coordinators. And this is something that maybe was a little bit concerning dating back to last year where the Bills got off to a pretty solid start. And then it's like, hey, by the way, teams are adjusting what Ken Dorsey has done. Whether that was Josh Allen's shoulder, I don't write that comment in yet. I get it that there were a lot of things that factored into the second half offensive slump of the Bills. Some of that could be Ken Dorsey not making adjustments as to hey, this is what we're going to do with Ken Dorsey teams making adjustments. Ken Dorsey not adjusting again. Now we saw an adjustment and for everybody that said the Bills offense was fine. What are you talking about? Look at the all 22. What are you talking about the numbers, Dan. Hey, something.

[C]

They changed everything.

[A]

Hey, the epa. So for all the, for all the all Pro offensive coordinators that are sitting on their couch screaming for the Bills to go up tempo, to spread it out, to throw the ball more, they were right. And you want to know why? Because the Bills did it because they literally scrapped everything that they had been doing the entire season and went back to Brian Dable's system and it worked. Now to Mike's point, what do you do now? Now the Bengals saw you go up tempo. They saw you spread it out. They have seen you use Dalton Kincaid and they've now seen where you use Dalton Kincaid, how do you now throw the counter punch? Okay, they've seen it. You go back and forth. So where this offense is, Jenna, to your point, that's the big question is can you have the 95 mile per hour fastball that we've always said Bean wants to stick to? It's Josh Allen. What is your off speed pitch off of that? How do you adjust? Because Lou Amarillo has dominated, has dominated you for these last two games. You need to throw a wrench into.

[B]

His game plan also too jumping off that mike. Like the Bills still don't have an identity and we're halfway through the season getting to that point. Like is that a concern, the fact that we still don't know the identity of this team considering how much football has been played?

[C]

Yes, but they've had moments. Look, they, they have shown they can play well even in the 12 personnel.

[A]

Right.

[C]

You mentioned that Dolphins game. I mean the offense was great and they were really good in the Raiders game. And then they go to this with the up tempo. I think in the long run it's going to be good where you have a personality which is we play smart, we play fast, we do this. But you to my point about adjusting is I was a pretty substantial change that they made and you put a lot of stuff on tape. So then the question is for them offensively, do you come into the game and wait to see how the Bengals are playing or do you do what Josh hinted at beforehand, which is was he said it to us a week leading to the game. Why don't we go out there and dictate. I'm paraphrasing here. So when you come into this game, you may already have some adjustments. There's things you know the Bengals are going to try to do. I want to see the Bills still be the aggressor. And that doesn't mean totally go back to what you just did or skip everything that just worked. But I want to be like, okay Lou, see if you can match up with this. And we're going to maybe there's plays in there where Josh looks like he's going to make the quick get rid of the ball throw and boom, he takes his shot down the field. There's counters off of what they've done. I don't want to see them wait for the Bengals defense. I want to see them be that team. So you're right. There's no steady identity to what they've had. But on the plus side, they have shown moments of greatness with this offense. They Just need to highlight the things they do well and be ready to adjust to those things. Depending on what the defense ends up doing.

[B]

I really want to see the secondary receivers step up again. I think that was such a key for this team against the Bucks, and it's something we've seen very inconsistently throughout the season and usually is the teller of whether this team wins or loses is how involved the other guys get. So that, to me, is something that definitely sticks out.

[C]

What's been really interesting about the Bengals is it has been the Jamar Chase Show. T. Higgins has not been healthy. You look at the numbers.

[B]

I mean, it is.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. He's averaging 90 yards, roughly 90 a game. And I think the, you know, the closest guy to him I got to look is. I mean, it's three times the number per game. Yeah.

[A]

I just wanted to clarify, too. We were. People have probably already commented in first time, the Bills have been underdogs in 27 straight games. The last time was the 2021 playoff game in Kansas City. So that was. That was the last time they were underdogs.

[B]

Wow. Do you think that adds a little extra motivation?

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

These. You look for. You look for any single thing to motivate you on this.

[B]

Honestly, what would motivate me the most is that they kicked my ass the last two times.

[A]

I just remember. I just remember Joe Mixon last year and him being like, we're the top dogs in the AFC and somebody's got to come and take it from us. And I was like, that's going to fire up the Bills. And it didn't do jack. So, like, they were just so much better, more physical, especially with an offensive line that wasn't good. The Bengals offensive line last year was very poor, and they were just able to scheme up and play to their strengths. And to Mike's point, I couldn't agree more. And you talk about Josh Allen saying, like, you know, maybe. Maybe we got to find what we do and we dictate defenses, that you got to play our style of game. And I think that that's what it is. Make defenses play base and beat you by going up tempo. Don't be worried about. Well, this team does pretty well when they play base. Screw it. You're the one that makes them play. Yeah. You may be good in your base defense. If we go, no huddle and you can't sub and you can't do exotic blitzes, you still can't handle us. And that's what I just want to see. It's what we've talked about for years, where I said, be the team that throws the first punch. Like, if you're a boxer. I've always said it. If you're a boxer that throws big right hands and that's what your big uppercut shots. But you're like, well, the guy defends uppercuts well. Well, he hasn't defended my uppercut. Like, try and stop mine.

[C]

Excuse me. Let's. Let's get the information from the boxer in the group.

[B]

Oh, me. Right idea. I mean, not well, but I was so confused. I gotta have an outlet for some of my anger from you guys.

[C]

Hey, by the way, I wanna. I'm just making sure here. When you guys are referencing the last two times the Bengals have kicked their.

[B]

Ass, are we talking about one that didn't. The one that didn't end?

[C]

Yeah, that was a quarter. They came down the field.

[B]

I mean, they certainly.

[C]

They did, but it's, it's, you know, it's, it's like first drive stuff. I wouldn't give them too much credit for that. You don't need more credit from that because when they needed it the most, they dominated them in the playoff game in Buffalo.

[B]

I remember thinking, what is the point of trying to get home field when you play like that?

[C]

Well, that's true.

[A]

Maybe they won't have to worry about home field this year.

[B]

I will say I'm. I'm curious to see what a Sean McDermott defense will do and how they will try to attack this offense. That, to me, is going to be interesting.

[C]

Right. And you know, Mixon's having a good year. Boyd is steady as can be, Their offensive line is much better. They're playing with that confidence. But it really is, it's. It's. Right now, it's sort of the Bills, in terms of digs and, and Jamar Chase just stand out as the by far number one guys. And that's why I said it's a little different at the moment for the Bengals because of the way. But you're right, you know, what's he going to do? Are we going to see more of the three safeties on the field? I mean, they showed that I have. I see no reason to not be doing more of that this week. And let's see. I don't, I don't know about Rasul Douglas, if he's going to get any time. I mean, he's got to learn the defense at least, whatever it is. But honestly, I think he dresses for the game.

[B]

Yeah, I would, I would, I Would. Why not?

[C]

Yeah, he knows how to play zone. It's a little bit different, but in that case. But yeah. And look, come on, Von, like I.

[B]

Was gonna ask, what do you expect from Vaughn? I feel like. I feel like he was more impactful this last game, which, yeah, is encouraging. But also you could say he was very not impactful the weeks before.

[C]

But maybe you say unimpactful, but I don't think that's a word.

[B]

I was trying to finagle my way around that. But Dan, a little extra rest as well coming off the mini buy. What do you want to see from Vaughn or do you have an expectation set for him?

[A]

I still don't have too much of an expectation. I think this game comes down to when I said last week that I still think the Bills can be a top 10 defense. I think some people are like, there's no way and all these things. And like we saw Sean McDermott throw in the wrinkle of bringing Jordan Poyer to be a linebacker and we all thought that would be maybe tight. You know, Taylor rap being that guy this year. But like hats off and credit to Sean McDermott for making that adjustment. And I think that that was Jordan Poyer's best game he's played this season. And that's where I still give Sean McDermott so much credit. And that's why I still have so much faith in this defense with all the injuries. I know we talked about the end of the game and trying to push forward, but you saw the difference that Ed Oliver can make as of this moment. Ed Oliver is the Matt Milano of the Bills defense. He, he is the most important piece on the Bills defense. He not only he used to kind of just be this pass rushing threat like he could get after the quarterback. Right now he's throwing offensive linemen into the backfield to stop the run. He, he is a massive part of everything they do. I don't know if Greg Russo is 100%. He just seems like he hasn't had the step the last few weeks. And you know, A.J. abdessa had a sack at the end of the game. But I think Ed needs to be a guy that takes over this game. I don't think Von is ready to be the guy that closes right now. The closer is at Oliver and to see him maybe the mini body you like said he was playing missed the week in New England team looked like crap. They come back, he short rest off the toe and I just thought he dominated the game. So, yeah, looking to see more of that more than I am Vaughn, whatever Vaughn can provide. It was good to see Vaughn at the end of the game against the Bucks. I know he had the full start, but again, against the Giants, he wasn't even on the field like. And against other teams, like, he wasn't there in the closing moments. And Mike, you asked him in the locker room afterwards, like, what's it like in that moment? And he's like, I made a career off this. We're like, we're kind of talking about the general team. And he was just like, I made a career off sacks in that. And I'm, I'm frustrated because I'm not there, but I'm getting closer. So I hope this is another step in the right direction. I still just have tempered expectations for Vaughn much more for Ed in my camera. Like, is anybody else seeing this thing?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. No, it's, it's.

[A]

Am I just animated?

[C]

So is that what you have, that automatic centering? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And you are not center.

[C]

Hey, I, I'm looking for Vaughn to make a play. A play?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I think that's fair. That's it. It's kind of like bring the guy off the bench and have him hit the three run homer. I mean, that's, that's kind of what I'm looking for. That's maybe what they need. It could come down to that at the end of the game. So I think that's going to be fun to see. I would say that. I would say that. You heard Brandon Bean. We all were hearing him after the playoff loss. I think the Bengals just bug the crap out of the Bills.

[A]

Yep.

[C]

I think it's different. It plays different than the Chiefs. The Chiefs are the Chiefs. It's Andy Reid. It's Patrick Mahomes. The Bengals sort of, you know, objects in the rearview mirror were closer. Right. They just sort of passed by the Bills. They're in the Super Bowl. Like, what happened after the 13 second game. And then they beat the Chiefs again. Or they gave. They went to the end with the Chiefs again. So I just think it bothers the heck out of them. I know it seems to bother being. And I would think all of them, because there's one thing when you say it's you and the Chiefs and they're the. It's another thing when it's. Yeah, it's the three, but it's really been the Chiefs and the Bengals, so. And I also think we've been cheated out of a Burrow and Allen game. I said that before about Mahomes but, you know, one quarter of the one game, and then the Bills didn't show up in the playoff game, so be nice to see. Be fun to see those two go at it.

[A]

If anybody's watching YouTube, I am struggling right now with my camera. I'm gonna just leave it alone.

[C]

Can. Can I just say this again? And I know we've hinted at it. The podcast studio is right to my right. It's almost done. We need adult space to get this done. It's my microphone, it's Dan's camera, It's my brain. And by the way, no, she's not. Okay. She's not even in the videos. You're at practice and people are like, jenna.

[B]

Yesterday was a particularly bad day, though, for my brain.

[A]

It wasn't your best. Jenna wasn't your best.

[B]

Jay was not my best. For sure. Yeah. No. But, yeah. I will say, though, Mike, I. I love. I would love to see the Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, I would love to see that head to head. And we see these two offenses that are high flying. We've had the expectation of that actually be able to do that. I think that's what NFL fans obviously want to see. But also, too, I think my thought process going into this game, if I'm the Bills, is obviously, you want to see where you stack up. I personally think that the Bengals will win this game, but I think how this game goes really sets the tone for the way you look at the rest of the season. And if you are able to go, you know, punch for punch with this Bengals team and maybe you run out of punches at the end. All right, you can kind of recollect, figure out where you need to get better. But. But if it is a situation, Dan, where the Bills just don't have, that they're good, but not good enough, I think that's when you really, if I were a fan, it's like you would hit the panic button because you see how the team has been struggling with average teams, let alone, if you want to talk about the postseason, it's like, you know, the Bengals have the ability to get there, and we've seen them play well in that space. So it's like, all right, there's a lot on the line for the Sunday night game.

[A]

And to me, it's. To me, it's a test of the offense. It's a test of the offense. Can you. Can you go up against another great offense? And that's the point of Jenny talking about, like, if you lose this game, like, there are no moral victories. There's no, oh, you're coming up close, but like, I'm with you, Jenna, if they lose this game, 35, 32, I'm going. All right, get Russell Douglas, get Linval Joseph, get these guys up to speed. You know, get. Get some of these defensive figured out and get a healthy Von Miller at the end of the season. And I'd like my. I'd like a puncher's chance at it. Yeah, if they go and they. They. They lose 17 to 13, I'll be more concerned because this is. I, I want this offense to have some. Some success against this Bengals defense. That. That's what I'm looking for, especially in a hostile environment, to go on the road and to put up. Put up a good. Another good performance to stack off. To stack off what you did at home against the Bucks.

[C]

Yep. Well, this defense is playing well for Cincinnati. Hendrickson's got eight sacks. Logan Wilson has 10 interceptions in his career. They are forcing turnovers at a high rate.

[A]

Mike's Mikey stats right now.

[C]

I got. But I mean, I'm looking here. In their four wins, they have had 11 turnovers for the defense. It's right here, Jenna.

[B]

I can read it.

[C]

I can't. It's 11 turnovers that has made a huge difference. They're turning the ball over. It's a confident team. You know how you stop that confidence? You go punch him in the mouth. So we've seen the Bills give away a game to the Patriots. We've seen them lose a game they were in total control of against Zach Wilson and the Jets. You want to get things right, go there and steal one in Cincinnati.

[A]

And you know what helps a banged up defense that's missing three all pros score points, score points early and make the Bengals one dimensional. Bean talks about that again. Like, let these pass rushers get into. Let them pin their ears back knowing the Joe Burrow has to throw the ball. Like, getting up and scoring the first touchdown is huge. And I know they won't do it, but if they win the coin toss, I would love to see them take the ball. Because that is what the Bengals did in that Monday night game in Cincinnati. They won the toss and took the ball and marched right down the field.

[C]

I think, yeah, I keep calling for that. Win the toss and take the ball. They're not doing it.

[B]

What. Where do you think the confidence level of this. If. Of this Bills team is right now, Mike?

[C]

Okay, on a scale scale of 1 to 10, I would say it's a hopeful 6. Like, I think they're saying, hey, we got some stuff going. They're confident as a team, but they've had too many moments over the last five weeks, four weeks, whatever it's been, where they don't look like, I have to say it, they don't look like a playoff team at times, let alone a great team. But they've had other moments, certainly, you know, this past week where there was way more positives than negatives, where at least you're starting to feel it. And this has been the time over the last few years where they got hot. They better, because they got a lot of tough games starting with this one. So I think it's not only a huge test for them and, and their confidence in how they play, but it's also a big important game in the standings. By the way, what a day of football. I got the Chiefs and the. And the Dolphins in London or in Germany. Then I think it's the Ravens. It's a great game. Who the Ravens got?

[B]

The Ravens.

[C]

Oh, yeah. It's a one o' clock game. The Ravens, because that's Ravens, Seahawks. Is it? Yeah. Then you've got Eagles, Cowboys at four, and then you got the Bills at night. Like, that is a day to just, you know, grab some couch time and watch a lot of football. And, you know, if you're a Bills fan, you're rooting against a lot of people during the day. Hey, by the way, who are you rooting for? You're rooting for the Chiefs in that game, right? Yeah. Got to be rooting for the Chiefs. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, I think I'm with you, Mike. A cautiously optimistic six. Six and a half. Maybe. Maybe they're trying to tell themselves that their confidence is. Is an 8, but I think they need to go and. And do it against again. Like I said last week, I was happy to see the offense and defense play as well as they did, but it was the Bucks. Baker Mayfield. It was the Bucks. Like, go, go and do that against, you know, an afc, you know, contender and send a message. I think that. I think this would be, you know, set the tone.

[B]

This is set the tone time.

[A]

It's not a. It's not a benchmark, necessarily total game, but this is a prove it that you figured something out game.

[C]

Yeah, that's what I say. These games matter that way, but they matter tremendously in the standings. Yeah, they just do. It's head to head with the Bengals. The Bills are ahead of the Bengals. Right. What are the banks now?

[B]

Yeah, four and three.

[C]

Four and three. So you're. You're ahead of them. You win this game, and maybe the Dolphins get knocked off. All of a sudden you are in first place and you have a game and a half edge on the Bengals. I mean, that is with all the tough games. Everybody's got tough. There's a bunch of tough games left in the season for all the big teams, so.

[B]

Big game. All right. Anything. Anything else you gentlemen want to add?

[A]

Mike?

[C]

Just.

[A]

I think it's just. It's just the emotion of going back to Cincy. Yeah. I think that I. I think we can't not address that. I feel a little weird, and I'm not playing in the game. Yeah, it is. It is going to be weird to go back to that field and to go back to that. And then again, players were asked about it. Demar wasn't at practice yesterday with food, like, symptoms as we record this on Thursday morning. But just the fact of. They've addressed it, like, it's not like Dane Jackson kind of was. Like, we have talked about the elephant in the room. Like. Like, we have talked about. Like, we're not acting like this. Like, Demar didn't go into cardiac arrest on this field when we played here last time. But Demar said, like, hey, like, he's not going to play. Just. Just to play him. Like, if he does dress, which he's been inactive, it'll be a football decision, which is something that Sean McDermott was very clear about. It's why Demar has been inactive for most of the season, is because it's a football decision and they have three safeties, all those things, but just a matter of you can prepare and Brandon Bean, like, like we said earlier, like, you can prepare for all these things.

[B]

It.

[A]

It's just going to be weird. It just is going to be. And how you handle that. And like I said, it was so weird. Mike, remember when they. They started to, like, warm up for a second?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You were like, wait, what?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think everybody would be. I think you'd be naive to think that, like, that doesn't play some factor. I know it's different. I know the Bengals have played on the field. I know the Bills have played. I know the Bills. Demar is fine, like, all those things, 100%. But he'd be naive to say that there's not going to be at least one moment. Maybe it's in pregame. Maybe that's when you get the jitters out of, like, whoa, we walked off the field here and we didn't know if our teammate was going to live.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Then you get into the football game. I think there will. I think it will be a sense of normalcy. I just think it might take a second to get there.

[C]

Yeah. And I also think it was funny. I was looking at your video from the game the other day, and, you know, Damar was going through that, and it was incredible. But Demar, he said. I mean, he really has no recollection of what went on.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And. But I'm. You're looking at the faces of all of his teammates, and that part, I think they'll get by. But, you know, we say this all the time. These guys are human. Dan, you were right on the field. I'm in the building. In general, it just impacts you. There's just time. So I. I know Demar is going to be there. He should be there. Whether he dresses or not, we'll see. But I think. I think there's going to be moments that they'll get past it, and then, hey, these guys are also wired to when the play starts, they play football, which is impressive. And I think they'll be. I think they'll be fine with that. But it might just, as Dan said, take a minute.

[B]

Yeah. I think there's got to be acknowledgement. Like, I think it's important probably, for the players just to take a moment. That way you can address it. Like, that way the players can kind of take a moment to address what happened. Like, give their. Their brain the space to, like, not process, but also just, like, acknowledge the fact that they're back on the field where everything happened. And I think if you do that, then that kind of clears your head. You're able to look at it as, okay, this is a game. Like, I gave this. This moment, the. The space it needed to, and I'm here to play football. That would be my approach. And the bill is also, like, they have a sports psychologist on staff. Like, they're very seemingly savvy with. With how to handle things of that nature.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Yeah. And the outcome has been it's a triumph.

[C]

Right.

[A]

It went from a tragedy to a triumph. I mean, again, stories could be written completely differently how this emotion would be. But the fact of the matter is, too, is that, Mike, to your point, which I think is great, Dane Jackson was the one that was like, Dumar apologized for putting his teammates through that. Remember that? Like, Demar is, like, I didn't have to go through it. Like, I didn't have to go through seeing a teammate, like, almost die. On the field, he was the one. And so Dane was saying this week, he's like, yeah, he's like. He understood. Like, we're the ones that went through it. Like, we have to get over that. Because for Demar, it's a. It's a different situation. And Jen, I know we talked about it. I don't know if we talked about it on the post practice one, but I just said. I remember at training camp, it was the first day that demar had put on pads.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And he was so great talking about it, you know, getting back to normal life. And somebody asked him, like, does it feel normal again, like, to be in pads? I think it was Elena Getzenberg from ESPN and DeMar's answer, and I still have it saved on my computer. But the fact of the matter is, is he said there's no such thing as normal anymore.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, this football game is not going to be 100% normal because of what happened last year. Now, it may be normal by a certain point, but it ain't gonna start out normal. That arriving back to say Stefan Diggs got in an Uber and went to a hospital. Like, going back to the city of Cincinnati is not going to be normal. Like, they go to New England or Miami all the time. Like, they know this. It's going to be different. So it'll just be. I'm looking forward to going back to see the reception of the crowd because the crowd was electric at the start of that game. One of the coolest atmospheres that we never really got to talk about. Amazing atmosphere like that place. Maybe an older stadium. It's a cool stadium and they do a great job. And that team is. Those fans are passionate. Interesting to see how that. How that response is. I'm excited to see that.

[B]

Yeah. And Brandon Beam, I think, said it really well yesterday when he said there's a lot to be thankful for, obviously, Demar's health, and there's a lot to be proud of. The fact that the CPR awareness and all the good that has come out of a situation. I know Mike and I, we've been CPR certified after, you know, what we saw all that stuff. So I think it will be. There will be an emotional component. I don't expect it to take over, but I think it's important to acknowledge what happened, and I think the Bills will do that. So. And that's obviously something that a lot of the reporters and media will also talk about in pre game and all that stuff.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Is Mike. Is Mike frozen?

[A]

Mike Okay.

[B]

I wasn't sure. All right.

[C]

I'm gonna do my Dan Cameron nation. Okay.

[A]

When Mike doesn't Talk for like 30 seconds, we all think I was, I.

[C]

Was giving Jenna her space. She was making a good point. Okay.

[B]

All right. Thank you for joining us. Please be sure to, like comment your thoughts on this matchup and what you expect to see as well as be sure to like and subscribe and share with friends. Check out the Buffalo plus store. Buffalo plus, there he goes dot com. Dan Fates is a clown. If you order over 25, you get free shipping. So the holiday season is upon us. So do you have a friend or a family member that loves Buffalo plus? We got merch. And be sure to find this podcast wherever you listen to your podcasts. Apple, Spotify, Stitcher, all those spots. So for Mike and Dan, I'm Jenna. Thank you so much for watching Buffalo plus, presented by Connors and Ferris.