Buffalo Bills survive Giants scare: postgame report

Summary

Buffalo Plus Podcast: Buffalo Bills Survive Giants Scare—Postgame Report

Date: October 17, 2023
Hosts: Mike Catalana, Jenna Cottrell, Dan Fates

---

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode is a deep dive into the Buffalo Bills' narrow 14-9 Sunday night win over the New York Giants. The Buffalo Plus crew critically assesses the game, focusing on the Bills’ offensive struggles, defensive grit, and key moments that ultimately determined the outcome. With candid observations and behind-the-scenes perspectives, the hosts explore why the Bills labored against an inferior opponent, what this game reveals about ongoing concerns, and what lies ahead.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. General Game Flow and Emotional Response

• The Bills eked out a win in what was described as a "lousy football game" with a "boring at times" rhythm, saved only by an incredible finish.
  • Quote: "For what was a lousy football game. I thought boring in times. It ended up being an incredible finish and the Bills just again find a way." —Mike Catalon (00:00)
• The last play loomed large—not just a win, but survival against a Giants offense with no recent touchdowns (220+ minutes).

2. Controversial Decisions and Coaching Analysis

• Breakdown of game management in the final minutes, including the debate over McDermott’s call to throw on third down versus running the ball.
  • Quote: "I'm fine with it." —Dan Fates on 3rd-down throw (02:50)
• Special teams and field goal considerations, amid a rare off night for Tyler Bass.

3. Defensive Resilience and Goal-Line Drama

• Giants had not scored an offensive touchdown for over 220 minutes but nearly won on the final plays.
• Defensive stand at the goal line on back-to-back plays, with a penalty giving the Giants a second life.
• Taron Johnson’s View:
  • Quote: “I'm gonna play aggressive. If he throw a flag, that's just what it is. ... I'm just happy we came out with it.” —Taron Johnson, on the last play (05:14)

4. Offensive Struggles and Scheme Critique

• The offense didn't score until the fourth quarter—described as "perplexing" and "hard to swallow."
  • Quote: "Is zero points going into the fourth quarter a bad thing?" —Mike Catalon (05:58, sarcastically)
• Heavy criticism of repeated shotgun runs on short yardage:
  • Quote: "If I see another shotgun run on third or fourth and short, I'm gonna lose my mind." —Dan Fates (07:31)
• Lack of involvement from secondary receivers and lack of creativity/play-calling from offensive coordinator Ken Dorsey.
  • Quote: "It seems like Ken Dorsey's trying to zig when everyone else is zagging... It's not working." —Dan Fates (08:53)

5. Josh Allen’s Heroics—and Injury Concern

• Allen’s improvisational playmaking deemed essential to victory.
• He got X-rays on his throwing shoulder postgame but assured, "we'll be all right."
  • Quote: "Gutsy performance again by Josh because of dealing with that pretty much the entire second half." —Dan Fates (12:40)
• The offense felt “in the mud”; Allen seen as “dejected” at his press conference despite the win.

6. Key Plays and Turning Points

• End of First Half: Tyrod Taylor’s run call at the goal line prevents almost-certain Giants points.
  • Quote: "Tyrod Taylor did the Buffalo Bills a favor, it appears... They were guaranteed 3 points—could very well have had seven." —Mike Catalon (15:00)
• Goal-Line Stand: Defense holds up after a penalty extends the game, stopping the Giants on the final play.
• Big Breaks: Giants’ coaching missteps and Barkley not getting the ball at the end.

7. Fight and Physicality—Momentum Shifts

• Noteworthy scrum between the Bills’ O-line and Giants defenders, with Josh Allen jumping into the fray.
  • Quote: "The quarterback here, Josh Allen, had his lineman's back." —Dan Fates (18:46)
• Sean McDermott praised the team for not backing down but emphasized Allen needs to be smarter and safer.

8. Emotional Aftermath and Perspective

• The game felt like a loss emotionally, given the struggles, despite the win.
  • Quote: "You would think they lost this game... to some respects, it kind of feels like an icky... win." —Dan Fates (16:42)
• Recognized that these are recurring issues that should concern fans.
• Film sessions expected to be tough: "Film sessions are going to be ugly for these guys... going to see a lot of stuff they didn’t do well." —Mike Catalon (17:21)

9. Defensive Player Highlights

• Terrell Bernard lauded for his playmaking and toughness, even as questions about his size lingered.
  • Quote: "He may have a long career... he is not afraid to fly around with his body." —Dan Fates (26:12)
• Dorian Williams and A.J. Epenesa also earned praise for their energy and impact.

10. Major Injury Scare—Damien Harris

• Intense concern for Harris after leaving on a stretcher, but initial reports are positive (movement in extremities).
  • Quote: “It brings back kind of the thoughts about Demar [Hamlin]... It was nice to know... they're not doing CPR.” —Dan Fates (24:01)
• Emotional impact on team, with Dion Dawkins visibly choked up about the string of injuries.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• "For what was a lousy football game. I thought boring in times. It ended up being an incredible finish and the Bills just again find a way." —Mike Catalon (00:00)
• “There are no style points... it's a win.” —Dan Fates (01:47)
• "If I see another shotgun run on third or fourth and short, I'm gonna lose my mind." —Dan Fates (07:31)
• "I'm gonna play aggressive... if he throw a flag, that's just what it is... I'm just happy we came out with it." —Taron Johnson (05:14)
• "Film sessions are going to be ugly for these guys." —Mike Catalon (17:21)
• “Josh Allen had to make some incredible plays for them to get offense going.” —Mike Catalon (08:53)
• "He [Josh Allen] looked... slightly disheveled... that's the most we've seen him be dejected." —Jenna Cottrell (14:22)
• “Tyrod Taylor did the Buffalo Bills a favor, it appears... They were guaranteed three points—could very well have had seven." —Mike Catalon (15:00)
• “He may have a long career... he is not afraid to fly around with his body." —Dan Fates on Terrell Bernard (26:12)
• “Effort. Whether it's 5 or 55 or whatever, a win's a win, and that's all that matters.” —Josh Allen, as relayed by Dan Fates (16:51)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00 Main theme, ugly game but incredible finish
• 01:50 Coaching decisions on final drive; field goal vs. punt vs. pass
• 05:14 Taron Johnson on last play aggression
• 07:31 Deep dive: Red-zone offense and shotgun runs
• 12:27 Josh Allen’s injury and gutsy play
• 14:54 Giants’ end-of-half blunder: Tyrod Taylor's audible
• 18:00 On-field fight and Josh Allen’s involvement
• 24:01 Damien Harris stretcher situation and emotional impact
• 26:09 Terrell Bernard and unsung defensive heroes

---

Conclusions & Outlook

• The Bills avoided disaster but showed major offensive flaws against a weak Giants team, raising real concerns despite the win.
• Defensive resilience, situational luck, and flashes of quarterback brilliance carried the day—but recurring trends in slow offensive starts are troubling.
• Next up are the Patriots, another struggling offensive opponent, giving Buffalo a chance to address its issues.

---

This episode captures a tense, critical, but ultimately optimistic snapshot of the Buffalo Bills in mid-October 2023—winners on the stat sheet, but with much to improve as the season rolls on.

Transcript

[Mike Catalon]

For what was a lousy football game. I thought boring in times. It ended up being an incredible finish and the Bills just again find a way that's exactly what they did.

[Dan Fates]

This is the Buffalo plus podcast brought to you by contrast, Connors and Ferris.

[Jenna Cottrell]

All right, welcome Back to the Buffalo Plus YouTube channel presented by Connors and Ferris. Please be sure to like, comment and subscribe to the channel if you enjoy our content and our breakdowns of these games. And what a game this one was. Mike Catalon and Dan Fates. I'm Jenna Cottrell. The Bills eking out the win in this one. Fourteen, nine.

[Dan Fates]

Never a doubt.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Let's talk about this game, the last play, how it all went down. Because there were a lot of. There's a lot to talk about in this one.

[Mike Catalon]

Different answers from guys. We ask them about feeling like they survived. Maybe they don't want to say that they survived in this game. No doubt about it. Right. You are going against a Giants offense that even with Daniel Jones and Tod Taylor in this one had not scored an offensive touchdown. It ended up being in 220 minutes. They have struggled with weapons. Yes, they have struggled. Ken Dorsey's like with injuries. Right. And here they are going down the field with a chance to score a TD and beat you. Not only do they end up on the goal line, they get a second shot because of a penalty at the end and the Bills stop it. I mean it was incredible for what was a lousy football game. I thought boring in times. It ended up being an incredible finish and the Bills just again find a way. That's exactly what they did.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. And I do understand there are no style points. And we talked about this game coming in as a get right game that was quickly thrown out the window. I think at the end of the first quarter.

[Mike Catalon]

I still think we were right. It should have been.

[Dan Fates]

I agree.

[Jenna Cottrell]

It should have been.

[Dan Fates]

Yes. But about midway through the third quarter, it was another one of those games where you're sitting there, it's like six, nothing. It felt like it was more, but you're sitting there. It's. It's a one score game. You just sat there and maybe we can get to the grand scheme at the end. But this was one of those games, you look back and we won't care. You will not care how the game finished.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Correct.

[Dan Fates]

It's a win.

[Mike Catalon]

Holy bleep.

[Dan Fates]

And move on. Because the last play though I will say they shouldn't have even had a final drive. I feel like the two deep incompletions on the drive before seem to be the sealer, but the Giants having all three timeouts, the Bills giving the ball back. It almost was like the Bill's defense was like, oh, oh, crap.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Like, we gotta go back out there.

[Dan Fates]

We gotta go back out there.

[Mike Catalon]

But while you're deflated, I want to ask you about it, because Sean McDermott's decision to throw on third down.

[Dan Fates]

I'm fine with it.

[Mike Catalon]

I'm okay with that too, because the Giants still had that timeout left. And what you gave the Giants was the ability to still use that timeout. Because if they didn't have a timeout, you could have run the ball, taken the clock down to, I don't know, 45 seconds or so, and they would have had to go a long way. You probably would have punted on fourth down. Instead, you know, they needed the touchdown. So, yeah, you ended up throwing on.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That third day and you have the ball in your best player's hands, which Sean McDermott talked about. Felt comfortable decision. Josh Allen with the ball.

[Dan Fates]

I would have punted.

[Mike Catalon]

Interesting.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Okay.

[Mike Catalon]

Oh, as opposed to the field goal?

[Dan Fates]

As opposed to the field goal. I was thinking that was my only thing. Make them go. Worst case scenario, 75 yards.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Don't give them the life at midfield. And for whatever reason, hey, Tyler Bass is human. He wasn't his best day. And I just felt like the vibes at that point was, you punt it, there's no way they're gonna go 90 yards. Say Sand Martin puts him at the 10. Didn't feel that way. The door just kept being let open and let open and the Bills were never able to shut it.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, that's fair. We. We talked about earlier on just the fact that, like, the Bills didn't go for that earlier. Excuse me. The first. They could have gone for the attempt on the field goal 55 yards, which we.

[Mike Catalon]

He says, because it was going that way.

[Dan Fates]

Away from the.

[Mike Catalon]

Say the wind's a little different. You were down on the field. Did you feel like the wind?

[Dan Fates]

I didn't think the wind was much of a factor.

[Mike Catalon]

Yeah. And I didn't think, you know, Bass didn't hit even the second one particularly well.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalon]

Now he boomed the last one. He just missed it. But, you know, he missed. He missed two, and they didn't take a shot at another one. And usually he's as automatic as it gets.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. And as we wrap up, you know, or as we're Talking about our 10 takeaways finishing up on that last play, did Taron Johnson grab him a Little bit. Make the ref throw the flag. And as the final play, there was a timeout, and then there was obviously the call on trail Bernard before it. Yeah, the team knows and the defense. And I'm sitting there on the sidelines and Stefan Diggs is sitting there pretty much in the defensive huddles and is pretty much telling the guys the same thing. You cannot get beat in that play. You mug a guy, you tackle him before he catches.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That was Terrell Bernard.

[Dan Fates]

So. And you make the ref throw the flag. And they threw it on the first one and they didn't throw it on the second one. And Taron Johnson was asked about it. Mike, you talk to him?

[Mike Catalon]

Yeah. Here's what Johnson had to say about that last play and the way he approached it.

[Taron Johnson]

I mean, I'm gonna play aggressive. You know what I'm saying? I'm gonna play aggressive. And if he throw a flag.

[Mike Catalon]

Then.

[Taron Johnson]

That'S just what it is. You know what I'm saying? But I'm gonna go out there and I'm gonna play aggressive best way I can. I'm just thankful we got the dub, you know what I'm saying? I don't take no W for granted. So that's just. I'm just happy we came out with it.

[Mike Catalon]

Yeah. And Taron Johnson's a guy I trust there. I think he makes good decisions. You see everybody else going one way or the other. That guy is locked in. And I thought he was really good back there. And yes, you're right, though. Other times, take the guy down, force them to run another play because they're at the goal line anyhow.

[Jenna Cottrell]

No, I agree. All right. We've talked about the defense a little bit. Let's talk about what's up. Let's talk about the offense, because I'd rather not. We should discuss this.

[Mike Catalon]

So let me ask you, this. Is zero points going into the fourth quarter a bad thing?

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Is that bad?

[Mike Catalon]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Well, I had tweeted and I thought it was pretty funny and snarky that the Bills should have traveled to Buffalo earlier in the week to prepare for the timing and not have a jet lag.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Oh, that's good.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

That's good.

[Dan Fates]

Well, because the jet lag was what caused them to be poor in the first half in London.

[Mike Catalon]

Yes, it was a jet lag. So now it was coming back with the jet lag. So is there a time difference in Foxborough next week?

[Jenna Cottrell]

I don't believe so.

[Mike Catalon]

Okay, so that'll help.

[Dan Fates]

I'm hearing reports we're golden.

[Mike Catalon]

Yeah. Look, I Think it was a combination of things. And I have a feeling you're going to go coaching staff, which was a huge part of it. I thought what they did. Thought the execution also was poor. I mean pre snap penalties again, missed blocking assignments. Look, Wink Martindale's going to blitz is what the guy does. He's sending pressure. I tell you what, Josh made a lot of plays in this game and some of them he was Houdini getting out of practice. And the Giants aren't very good at getting pressure on the quarterback.

[Dan Fates]

They're not very good at anything.

[Mike Catalon]

Yeah, they really aren't. They played over their head in many ways. Certainly defensively they played better than they normally do.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

But the Bills went down to their level.

[Mike Catalon]

They did.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yes, they did.

[Mike Catalon]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

There is an interesting stat about teams that travel to London and don't take the bye the next week. Most of them trail in the fourth quarter heading into the fourth quarter. It is an interesting tidbit, I would say. But also the Bills have the way more talented roster and the fact that they had no points coming out of the half, didn't score until the fourth quarter and it took Josh Allen's heroics to get them on the board says a lot.

[Mike Catalon]

He's now ready. Go ahead.

[Dan Fates]

Just if I see another shotgun run on third or fourth and short, I'm gonna lose my mind.

[Mike Catalon]

I don't understand what it gets.

[Dan Fates]

It got to the point where I think Dorsey's just messing with us. That's the only explanation.

[Jenna Cottrell]

He's like, this will piss off Dan.

[Dan Fates]

Face Buffalo plus is gonna have a field day with this one.

[Jenna Cottrell]

What side of the mu. You are.

[Dan Fates]

I just.

[Mike Catalon]

It's.

[Dan Fates]

It's baffling. If you want to talk about under center and. And shotgun that that's fine. But the running it consistently out of the shotgun, especially on third and short. And again at the end of the. The 17 play drive, which sound which you would have thought they were playing the. The. The Bears. The. The. The. The great Bears 85 Bears. The way they had to slog 17 plays in the third quarter, take over 10 minutes. That's great. That's awesome to put that drive together. It shouldn't have taken that much effort to do it against the Giants. And then to be on second in goal from the one or the two and to go backwards three yards because of a shotgun draw play, it's like bashing your head against the wall. It's not working. It's infuriating. And when they did have success running the ball, it was James Cook and it was under center. I don't understand the logic behind some of these things. And again, I'm not trying to sit here and say I could be an offensive coordinator. I couldn't. But I'm looking at what works and what doesn't. And it seems like Ken Dorsey's trying to zig when everyone else is zagging to try and just be different. It's not working.

[Mike Catalon]

Yeah. And the other thing, Janet, today, I mean, no other wide receivers got involved at all. It was Diggs and the one play to Deontay Hardy, which was more of almost like a running back play, well designed. There was the phenomenal. That was the one time they schemed it perfectly, executed it perfectly, used a guy who has that skill. Besides that, I did not see a moment where they looked like they had the Giants reeling at all. Josh Allen had to make some incredible plays for them to get offense going. Plus they also benefited from a few penalties. One where Josh took a pretty big hit in order to keep drives going. This was. Honestly, I thought the offense was considerably worse than it even was in Jacksonville.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I would agree.

[Mike Catalon]

I thought this was bad.

[Dan Fates]

This was Jets. This was.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yes. Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

This was. I sat here and I was on the sidelines. I'm going to. They look uncoordinated again.

[Mike Catalon]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

And again, the sideline was. The sideline wasn't great because it's this sense of why can't we. Where are the points?

[Jenna Cottrell]

Like, like, why is it so hard?

[Dan Fates]

There's. It's one thing when Josh turns the ball over, Gabe Davis gets the, the. The fumble happens. Those plays happen. But to consistently stall, to consistent. Not be able to get things going, that's unlike this team. And that's. That's kind of hard to swallow.

[Mike Catalon]

And Janet, to Dan's point, that's against. When he's comparing it to the jets game. The jets have a very good defense.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalon]

These are the Giants who have gotten pushed around by most teams, every team.

[Jenna Cottrell]

It was perplexing. Watching up from the press box, it was just like, why Dobbs put up.

[Dan Fates]

28 points or 20 something points of this defense.

[Jenna Cottrell]

It's just like, why. Why did it look so hard? And that was the biggest thing. You had to have Josh make some of these heroic throws, all this stuff, which Josh is able to do that. But yeah, I mean, I, I wonder at what point though, like, we talk so much about it with Ken Dorsey, the decision making. But what do you think has to change? Like, what do you think it's just going to.

[Mike Catalon]

Suddenly didn't you think Sean McDermott was frustrated with the offense?

[Dan Fates]

100%.

[Mike Catalon]

And I thought in his answers when he talked about, you know, rhythm, I, I think that's an important thing that to me goes to coaching. There is schemes, there is plans, but rhythm is, it's a combination of confidence, confidence in the play call pace that you run at. You have the guys that can do that, they seem to be bogged down. Every play was like in the mud. That was the entire game. That should not be happening against the.

[Dan Fates]

Giants at home again. I know it's great to sustain drives and they had a 10 minute drive. It was the longest drive in 15 years or something like that. They said it was over 16 since like 2013, something like that. It was awesome. All those things. You can't depend on putting together 17 drives.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalon]

But the other thing is, you know, when you want those drives, when you're up by 10 and you're sealing the game, you know, you want that, you're trailing in the game, you got to get the ball down the field. And I know the Giants played them a little bit in front, but like it was, it was really. I honestly, I thought it was a, I would say based on the opponent and what you were coming off of. Well, this was the worst offensive performance they've had. I mean, they were shut out into the third quarter. And the quarterback, I give him credit, he played hero, he took a lot of hits. They needed him to be a hero and he came through for them. I mean, if you had the. What would it be? The what bat would it be where you, you just picked the two. If you had Hardy, the parlay, the parlay of Hardy and Quinton Morris as your two touchdowns for the game. Go cash that baby in because nobody would have expected that.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Unreal. Josh Allen said after the game that he did get X rays also on his shoulder.

[Mike Catalon]

Yeah, we saw him pictures. Dan and I saw him walking.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, he said we'll be all right after. It's on his throwing shoulder. That's what we've heard. I don't love that either.

[Dan Fates]

It's one thing if you're getting a hand X rayed, you know, it's whether it's broken or not. Right. That's what the X rays are going to show. You're going to show bones. And the fact that it's shoulder, it can be, that can be bruised, that can be a sore, that can affect throwing motion, that can limit, you know, swelling, inflammation, all those things can affect it. Gutsy performance again by Josh because of dealing with that pretty much the entire second half. Just a gutsy effort. I talked about the Quentin Morris play. You know, it was like he went into the phone booth, came out with his cape on. Like, that's just an absurd play that people don't even attempt, let alone pull.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Off the window to make that throw work.

[Dan Fates]

Wasn't open.

[Jenna Cottrell]

It wasn't open.

[Mike Catalon]

Unbelievable. What did Morris say? He goes, yeah, I had guys on both sides of me.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

In front.

[Mike Catalon]

But tell him about Morris and Knox.

[Dan Fates]

So obviously Morris, three plays before, I just saw him kind of limp off to the side. I know he wanted to come out of the game, but with Dalton Kincaid not being active and he was pretty much the only tight end, and they ran a lot of two tight end sets, and he couldn't really come out of the game. So when the play goes on and I see Quinton outside, I'm like, well, he's. He's. He's a distraction. He's just a body over there. And then I see him catch the ball at the end, and Dawson. Knox comes up to jump on him and celebrate, and he can't even put any weight on his ankle. And he's like, yeah, Dawson jumped on me. He said he was sorry. He thought I hurt himself. Like, all these things. Gutsy effort from a guy that wasn't really supposed to get this chance. If Kincaid plays.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalon]

He's his first target all year.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

And it's the first game on offense. That's his first catch of the season.

[Mike Catalon]

In his first target.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalon]

And so he gets it done. So you do need guys to make those plays. It just was so difficult.

[Dan Fates]

All night long in the mud's a good, good example. Everything was. Was tough sledding.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Everything was. And I feel like after the game, seeing Allen at the. At the podium, like, he looked, in my opinion, slightly disheveled. Like, that's the most kind of. We've seen him be dejected. We've seen him be all these things.

[Mike Catalon]

And they won.

[Jenna Cottrell]

And they won this game. But, yeah, just his body language, obviously, the toll that that game took, but also the fact that it was so close. The struggles with the offense as that continues on. They talked all week about getting off to a. They can't have these slow starts and then to come out and see the way they played in this game. Yeah, it's just. It's. It's concerning.

[Mike Catalon]

So let's also talk about the biggest break they got in this game right before the half.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Oh, my God.

[Mike Catalon]

Okay, so Brian Daboll Wasn't happy.

[Jenna Cottrell]

No.

[Mike Catalon]

Tyrod Taylor did the Buffalo Bills a favor, it appears. Checked out of that play is what he said. So they went from a pass to a run.

[Dan Fates]

Tyrod checked to a run check to a run.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Successful run unsuccessful.

[Dan Fates]

No timeout.

[Mike Catalon]

They were guaranteed three points. Could very well have had seven.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalon]

And they got zip on that play.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That was unbelievable.

[Mike Catalon]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Bailed out.

[Dan Fates]

Dable made a couple of missteps. I think he settled for the field goal that put them back up by two, you know. But Dable calls a pass play there, knowing that if it's incomplete, then I can kick a field goal.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

So.

[Mike Catalon]

Or even run another pass play.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

So again, for a backup quarterback to overrule it and to check to a run, you better be damn sure it's gonna work.

[Mike Catalon]

And it didn't.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah, that's tough.

[Mike Catalon]

And then at the end of the game, I happen to be standing here. Dan was, too. Saquon Barkley was not happy coming off the field.

[Dan Fates]

He's really good at football.

[Mike Catalon]

Yeah, he is. And I believe he was saying, I would have liked it if the team would have put the ball in my hands. I believe he phrased it in a different way. Something about a rock and some other words that he wanted in his hands. I would have been for the Bills, the way Barkley was going in that fourth quarter.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalon]

I would have been worried if he had the ball. He didn't really get a chance at the end, but couple of breaks. That's. The Bills needed it. They needed every bit of that against an offense that cannot get out of its own way most of the time.

[Dan Fates]

We have talks now. I wanted to start the timer to see how long we'd go in this. This block. We've been going about 16 minutes. You would think they lost this game.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I know the way that we are.

[Dan Fates]

Talking about this, and to some respects, it kind of feels like an icky. You know, it's an icky win.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Ugly. Ugly.

[Dan Fates]

But Josh is right. Dawson said it in the locker room. Effort. Whether it's 5 or 55 or whatever, a win's a win, and that's all that matters. When we look back at this, we correct to know that they didn't throw up on themselves at home against the.

[Jenna Cottrell]

But I also totally understand, and we all do, why fans would be very concerned, because this is issues that have not just popped up. These are things that are concerning trends that we have seen.

[Mike Catalon]

They're concerned about it, too.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, of course they are.

[Mike Catalon]

So they say it's a win. Is a win. They're right.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalon]

But man, film sessions are going to be ugly for these guys. They're going to see a lot of stuff they didn't do well. And yes, you take the win. It's hard to win. I agree with all that stuff. Yes. I don't know if you've heard this. The other team gets paid too.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Do they?

[Mike Catalon]

Yes. So. But you'll take the win. But you take the win and try to learn from it. And they got a lot to learn from this game because I say I'm not going to even pick on the defense. I thought the defense. You held them to field goals and you came up with the big stop. Two of them really, at the end. But in total, man, to struggle this badly coming off a loss and at home.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Jenna, I want to ask Dan about the fight.

[Mike Catalon]

Oh, yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

What was that like, seeing that?

[Dan Fates]

So it was one of those things that you're like, oh, it's a little pushing and shoving. And then it was Leonard who came after Spencer Brown, like way late.

[Mike Catalon]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike Catalon]

That.

[Dan Fates]

It was like, oh, this is over. And then you're like, no, it's not.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

And then to. To see that happen and to kind of see the rest of the offensive line come in and then to see 17 fly in.

[Mike Catalon]

Yeah. Don't do that.

[Dan Fates]

Josh was one of those things.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I loved what Sean said, though.

[Mike Catalon]

What did he say?

[Jenna Cottrell]

Like, we're not gonna back.

[Dan Fates]

We're not gonna back down. But he needs to be smarter.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

But he needs to be in the back of the.

[Dan Fates]

But it was so funny because there were other guys helping out Spencer and where the real scrum was.

[Mike Catalon]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

And it was like, somebody help him. Like not saying there'd ever be a cheap shot, but like Josh is putting himself in Dane Harm's way.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Somebody like I joked around, I tweeted something. The fact of most offensive linemen have the quarterbacks back. The quarterback here, Josh Allen, had his lineman's back.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalon]

The other thing you have to keep in mind in those circumstances, and I think this is an unfair thing about football rules, they can get a. First of all, it's always offsetting penalties.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalon]

I think there was five against the Giants and one against the Belt, whatever it was. But all it's cost in the Giants, even if they get a penalty, is a yard.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Correct. Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Whereas.

[Mike Catalon]

And. Whereas the Bills, if they. It be 15 the other way, you have to be smart. I do like the not backing down.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalon]

Fortunately, it didn't cost them because Dorsey had already Taken them back on the one carry. And then they eventually got the touchdown to play to Hardy. But they needed it.

[Dan Fates]

I was surprised how much these two teams didn't like each other.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I was, too.

[Dan Fates]

And you know damn well that was Dable getting his guys ready.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah, of course.

[Dan Fates]

And the fact that it got. It played into the Giants hand of. They were able to make it a rock fight. That they were able to pull the Bills down to their level, I think was frustrating. And the players went back at it multiple times. And also, I'll tell you this. I don't know if they showed it on the broadcast. Sean McDermott and Brian Dable's handshake lasted. He didn't pull back. Let's do that again. It was.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Catalon]

So it wasn't FaceTime me, we'll talk.

[Jenna Cottrell]

No, no, look, we watched a video of it. I was actually shocked.

[Mike Catalon]

Listen, we love Dable.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalon]

Some love him more than others.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Some of us here.

[Mike Catalon]

But I will say some of us got.

[Dan Fates]

Some of us got a hug before the game.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I got a fist bump.

[Mike Catalon]

I got one after the game.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Wow.

[Mike Catalon]

But I was trying to be respectful. The guy was not in a good.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalon]

I didn't say anything.

[Dan Fates]

The video is so funny. I showed it to Jenna. I tweeted out, but it's like he's walking in, it does a double take and.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Sees me.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalon]

He knows. But I will tell you this.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Dan had to move the camera so he could wipe away the tears.

[Dan Fates]

You said it was like I was holding the boombox before the game.

[Mike Catalon]

It was. You were waiting. Yeah. But I will say he's got his hands full with this bunch. I mean, they played tough. They played hard for him. They play for him.

[Dan Fates]

Tyrod, minus that check, played extremely well.

[Mike Catalon]

Really well.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalon]

Dropped a couple in the bucket.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Oh, yeah.

[Dan Fates]

They are. They are a team of misfit toys right now. They are not a good team. Not a good, good roster. Like you said, over 200 minutes without scoring a touchdown. Tough, but, man, they battled hard today.

[Mike Catalon]

Isn't it something? 220 minutes without an offensive touchdown, and it literally comes down to one play. Really? Two. But one play at the end when the clock was at zero, it's win or lose the game from a yard out. So they could have broken that streak and beaten the Bills here.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalon]

All at the one play. But they did.

[Jenna Cottrell]

No.

[Dan Fates]

Couple points. One more. At least on the offense. Stefan Diggs is incredible. He's. He's always open. They need to get somebody else.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

To take a little bit Away from it. Because you saw on the interception and things like that. I mean, they're kind of doing that bracket coverage on him where they got one guy and then kind of guys all around him.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Because it's just so good and all those things. And defensively, Dorian Williams plays like a guy with his hair on fire.

[Mike Catalon]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Flying around, flying around. Micah High was very complimentary of him, seeing just what he was doing on the field today. He said, yeah, he's obviously a younger guy, but at the same point you can see his ability out there in the flashes that he's been able to make.

[Mike Catalon]

Kyrie Elam, you got a target now. Sean McDermott complimented him on a tackle late in the game. He's a nice tackle and he's got to hang in there. Look, they need the guy to do something and to play.

[Dan Fates]

But that's overlooked by Tyrod's dumb mistake was Elam mugging a guy in the end zone.

[Mike Catalon]

And the part I had the problem with, look, if a guy's getting past you and he's going to beat you for a 50 yard touchdown, you grab a hold and there's always the little tug on the jersey. He's right at the guy. It's terrible technique.

[Dan Fates]

It's bad technique.

[Mike Catalon]

He just grabs him, makes it so easy for the official to call the penalty.

[Dan Fates]

And the deep ball late. He never really turned around. Yeah, obviously he was able to get his hands up, things like that. But I wouldn't have been the way that they, I mean, I guess they let a lot of things go past interference wise for the most part. Especially earlier in the game against the Bills.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Those, those. That early.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalon]

And the other thing we should really talk about is the thing with Damien Harris. It looks like he's doing okay.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Sean McDermott said the early signs are that things are good. He had movement in his arms and legs as well.

[Mike Catalon]

I, you know, it wasn't quite the same, obviously, as what happened with Demar. You were on the field for both of them. What'd you sense down there when all the players were around? Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

So obviously it's a, it was a third and one run out of the shotgun.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

And he gets tackled and like it's one of those things where the guys go to get him up and then he just went flat.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I saw.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

So that, that was scary. To go flat and motionless.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Cause that, that just brings back a lot of those. And again, they all kind of said like Sean even attested to it, like it brings back kind of the, the thoughts about Demar. It was nice to know that I was watching. It's like, they're not doing cpr.

[Mike Catalon]

Yeah. Isn't that something?

[Dan Fates]

I know that's a terrible thing to think about, but that's instantly where my heart went. Whereas, like, it was kind of one of those collisions where you went like, what's going on? And then obviously, the players coming around and the board comes out quickly, and you're like, yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Then the ambulance.

[Dan Fates]

And then the ambulance.

[Mike Catalon]

It's.

[Dan Fates]

It's.

[Mike Catalon]

It's oddly. I won't say routine is the wrong word, but we've seen it a number of times.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, it was.

[Mike Catalon]

And the. You know, he's a guy. He's a person who just found out. I think Friday they did a gender reveal, I think.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalon]

A little boy.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalon]

In his family. And what I asked Dion about in Daniel was what it's like for these guys. Like, it's their friend and teammate there.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

I don't know.

[Mike Catalon]

And it's not just watching it and then turning around. And Deion. I tweeted it out, if you want to hear it, but Deion talked about it, like, that's what they have to do. And they got it. He goes.

[Dan Fates]

He got choked up for a second.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

He did, yeah.

[Dan Fates]

He took. He took a second before he answered, because Deion's. Unfortunately, the way the season has gone, he's been saying the injury rate is 100%.

[Mike Catalon]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

And that's. What's that? And it's next man up. And we've talked about it. That it's impersonal.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

That it makes. And Deion's answer, Mike, was kind of like, we have to act superhuman even though we're not. Like, we got a block. The whistle gets blown. We got to play.

[Mike Catalon]

Yeah. He's like Josh Allen. He's protecting on the blind side. That's my job. He goes, I got to put that here. It doesn't go away. It's just. But it's, like, in the background for you. And then you just go play. You set it in there. You're like, oh, they're just back playing. I mean, literally, the ambulance has made it to the tunnel, and the whistle's blowing, and they're playing, and you all see it at home, but for the players, man, that is tough.

[Dan Fates]

Pull your checks in the ambulance. And then he's doing high knees, getting himself to go back up on the field. It's like, it's a game.

[Mike Catalon]

That's this game.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalon]

It's the worst part.

[Dan Fates]

They're able to Compartmentalize it. And.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

But again, they are human.

[Mike Catalon]

That.

[Dan Fates]

That's a friend. That's a teammate. That's another human being that that happens to.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Hopefully everything I would say, early signs, like we talked about, Sean McDermott saying, Things seem to be early on. Positive outlook, all that stuff. So.

[Dan Fates]

One last thing. I'll say Terrell Bernard is a dude.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

We were saying that he can play.

[Dan Fates]

Like, he may have a long career. The way that he has stepped up, the way that. Again, we always said that he wasn't big enough to play middle linebacker, and that was kind of thing. And he is not afraid to fly around with his body and smash into guys and fill holes and kind of be able to plug the run gaps is just incredible.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalon]

The play. That was the call for the run.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalon]

He was the first one there to make this. Now, he did have help.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalon]

And they probably could have kept him out of the end zone, but Bernard comes in ready for a tackle. He is. He's around the ball. He's around. He did get called for that penalty, but he is a. He is.

[Jenna Cottrell]

He's fun to watch.

[Mike Catalon]

So much more than you would have thought. He would have been coming.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Thousand percent.

[Mike Catalon]

So much more.

[Jenna Cottrell]

He has been so fun to watch. All right. Anything else?

[Dan Fates]

Von Miller hasn't. I, I, I don't know if he's mentally ready where he is. Colder night. I don't know if that was part of the toughness of getting up, sitting down, getting up, kind of being a. I was almost gonna say, like, it's the spot guy situation. Pitch count.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

But at the end, it was Jonathan. Kingsley. Kingsley. Jonathan. And the last.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Last drive. So I. Because I thought this was Von's time. This is what he does.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

And leonard Floyd's not 100% by any means, but that dude just goes out there and balls out.

[Mike Catalon]

Yeah, he is.

[Dan Fates]

He's a freak.

[Mike Catalon]

What's he up to?

[Jenna Cottrell]

6 and a half.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Which is wild.

[Dan Fates]

And AJ Epanessa continues to prove that Dan was wrong.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Yeah. We love A.J.

[Mike Catalon]

Yeah. I mean, he was. He was good. I. I love the play that he made.

[Jenna Cottrell]

And no, mostly because he made Dan be wrong.

[Mike Catalon]

Really?

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. I was not a fan of him during this off season.

[Unidentified Guest/Analyst]

Well, no, that's.

[Mike Catalon]

Honestly doing what he's doing now.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That is very fair.

[Dan Fates]

Dan, thanks for sticking up for me.

[Mike Catalon]

You hold him accountable.

[Dan Fates]

That's it.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Holding Fates account or holding fates?

[Mike Catalon]

Holding accountable.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Fates. Holding accountable. All right. Okay. So up next is the Patriots. We'll have plenty more to discuss. As the Bills get ready to head to Foxboro.

[Mike Catalon]

Wow. After this, the Bills still had a better offense than what they're going to see next week.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Please be sure to, like, comment and subscribe to the channel as well as share with a friend if you enjoy our stuff. For Dan and Mike, I'm Jenna. We'll catch you next time here on Buffalo. Plus.

[Hyundai Commercial Announcer]

In the time it takes you to actually board that flight from Group 8.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Now boarding Premier Altitude Elite club members.

[Hyundai Commercial Announcer]

You could have bought a Hyundai on Amazon. Yes, that Amazon, where you buy everything else.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Mid tier Altitude Elite. Feel free to board now.

[Hyundai Commercial Announcer]

So while you're waiting for them to make up new boarding groups, you can order your dream car and the dealer will have it ready in no time.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Now boarding groups one through seven.

[Dan Fates]

So close.

[Hyundai Commercial Announcer]

Visit HyundaiUSA.com or call 562-314-4603 for more details. Limited availability pickup through participating Hyundai dealer in select markets.