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Buffalo Plus: A Buffalo Bills podcast
Buffalo Bills take on the Eagles: What they're saying in Philly with Rob Ellis
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- [00:01]
A
They got the Niners and the Cowboys coming up after this. If there's going to be a moment of a flat or maybe not as fired up Eagles team, you sense that could be the case.
- [00:11]
B
Yeah, if there's ever going to be a moment, I think it is. I mean, you're coming off an incredibly emotional pitch of a game in Kansas City against your former coach, Buffalo. Plus your interactive look at the week in football brought to you by Connors and Ferris.
- [00:33]
A
Hey everybody, welcome Back to the Buffalo Plus YouTube channel. Please make sure to like comment and subscribe. We've got a special guest with us as we get set for Bills and Eagles coming up on Sunday. That game down in Philly, it is Rob Ellis from the Sports Take show on Jacob Sports. You can check that out on YouTube. And one of the hosts on the iconic sports radio station WIP in Philly. Rob, thanks for being with us.
- [01:00]
B
Mike, it's a pleasure. We go back to the combine years ago. I'll never forget hanging out and you know, reminiscing about your old stomping grounds.
- [01:09]
A
Yeah. And a lot has happened over that period of time for both of these franchises. Eagles winning a Super bowl, getting to another one. And then here we go with the Bills once again trying to make a run. So since you're down there and the game was just completed on Monday night, Eagles and Chiefs, your thoughts on this Eagles team 9 and 1. A lot of still doubters out there because the games have been close. What do you think you're seeing in this Eagles team right now?
- [01:38]
B
I think you're seeing non Picasso paint by numbers. But they know how to win. Right. There's a gene, there's a DNA that's interwoven in them that as ugly as it can look at times. And they're, they're testing the limits. Trust me, they figure it out. Mike, it's very strange. Like even the Chiefs game, it really had a sort of super bowl feel to it. Pacheco was running wild on them. They were making some mistakes early. And I'm saying to myself, my God, this could actually, you know, be a repeat of what we saw. And they hung in there. And that's one of the biggest things is this team does not blink. And I think a lot of it is Jalen hurts. They sort of feed off of him. And the veterans like Kelsey and, and Brandon Graham and those guys who have seen everything, not to mention the coach who you guys know, you know very well. But they, they tend to not be overwhelmed. And I think a lot of Teams in that circumstance, you think about this, you're on the road, you're playing the Chiefs, you're playing Mahomes, the Super bowl champs. Andy Reid off a buy would have folded tent. It was like the old Mike Tyson. You know, fights where you were dead before it even. You stepped in the ring. Not with this team. They do not fear the big moment. And I think that's probably their greatest trait as a team. It's more of an intangible than a tangible.
- [02:51]
A
When the draft pick happened and they took Jalen Hurts, my first thought was, man, I like that kid in like the fourth round, right? As a backup. That's what I was thinking. And then he comes in and I'm like, okay, man, they really use this draft pick. I don't think I've ever been more surprised. Not that he didn't have success, obviously in college, but a guy to make this kind of progression at quarterback to where he sort of was when they brought him in to where he is now. He's been incredible, hasn't he?
- [03:21]
B
Yeah. And there's no greater example than the few weeks leading up to the buy because he's hurt. You know, the knee was bothering him, which really made him one dimensional. And you know, the knock was Mike, all he could do was run. He's going to run around, but ultimately can he pass? Can he, can he live in the pocket like you have to in this day and age? And I think what he showed you during those, it was about three or four games where all of a sudden, man, he really started clicking in the air. Not that he didn't do it last year too, but there was still that thought that he's more of a runner and that kind of thing. But no, he's really developed and, and this is someone who is driven. You know, he was programmed for this. And I don't mean it in a bad way, not in a Todd Marinovich way. I mean, but he and his father, when he was younger, man, just instilled this into him, that at work ethic and focus and he is robotic, he's. He's a cyborg. So I'm not surprised that. Because the work ethic is off the charts. Good.
- [04:14]
A
Yeah, I, I've seen stuff with, you know, Nick Saban coming to tears when he's talking about Jalen Hurts as a team guy. And I think about this franchise where, where they were when Hertz came in with Carson Wentz, who just disappointed the whole city of Philadelphia, where he went off the cliff and just was a very different type of guy and seemed like a different type of teammate to this guy who, I gotta say, does everything right, but man, it feels like he just does everything right.
- [04:43]
B
Yeah, he does. I mean, and, and he is every, he, every once in a while he'll let his hair down. Like after the win over the Chiefs, he, he kind of went around and high five the fans who sat through that, you know, bad rain and cold and all that kind of stuff. You rarely get to see that glimpse of him. And I think he's someone who's, he'll never say it publicly, but is incredibly driven by a lot of different things that have gone down in his life. You referenced Alabama when he was with Nick Saban and what happened there. Going in the second round, everybody doubting his playing ability, his throwing ability, losing that Super Bowl. I mean, I don't, I don't know if you, you heard about this one, but the screen saver on his phone was the end of the super bowl with red confetti coming down on him. And he was, he was ticked off, frankly, that people saw it. But you're not doing that unless you're using that as motivation because that's not a friendly, that's not your kids or your puppy. That's. This happened. And I don't want that to happen again. That's how this guy's wired.
- [05:41]
A
I want to get back to the Eagles offense in general. I want to talk about the head coach, Nick Sirianni. He's from his family and all from not too far from Buffalo, Jamestown area. It's kind of funny with the Bills with a coach from Philly and the Eagles with a coach from right outside of Buffalo. He's a unique guy from the outside. There's a lot of people that roll their eyes, oh, this guy and the way he reacts and all. My sense is the players feel he's. That's who he is. He's genuine and they follow that. Right.
- [06:13]
B
Well, just to put in perspective, Mike, 30 and 6 since he made his infamous flower speech. Okay, and for, for our viewers who.
- [06:22]
A
Wouldn'T know the flower speech, tell them what that was.
- [06:24]
B
So the team was 2 and 5 in his first year and it didn't look good. You know, he, it wasn't a great first impression because he wasn't a well known commodity, big name. He had a rough. When we were all in the world of just non stop zooms where, where nothing was ever done in person, he wasn't meeting with the media and he had a tough sort of stumbling through it session. And that didn't get off well. The team's not playing well. He gives up play calling. And at one point, he references, look, you know, the flowers got to bloom here. And he goes into this whole, you know, arborist, you know, run that he goes on. And lo and behold, since then, they've won a ton. But here's what I'll circle back to. When he said that, a lot of people scoffed. A lot of media members made fun of him. But the veterans on the team, Jason Kelsey, Brandon Graham, Fletcher Cox, Lane Johnson, they're the guys who stood up for him. And that told me something. It wasn't just the young guys who had to. Who were just trying to make the team try and make an impression. It was the guys who could have said, please give me a break, who were all in for this guy. And I said, you know what? He connects with them. He's genuine with them. Like, I know his annex will tick off the oppos. You'll probably anger Buffalonians. Is that the word? I don't even know.
- [07:32]
A
Good enough.
- [07:33]
B
Yeah, I'm sure he will, even though he's from the area, because he will tend to get excited. He's an excitable guy, but he's genuine. And I think players see through when you're not. When you put that on for the camera and you're different behind the scenes, you're done. That's not him. He's the genuine article. And I think, frankly, it's a joke that he's not brought up in coach of the year conversations, because all he does is win, and all he does is have his team prepared every single week, which doesn't happen very often in that league.
- [08:01]
A
You know, there's a lot of talk, and I saw it last night when Andy Reed punted, you know, at what, 39 yard line, right? That is not Nick Sirianni, or rarely is. I mean, he'll go for it, I think. Back to the game with the Cowboys.
- [08:17]
B
Yep.
- [08:17]
A
First drive, right? Fourth and one at your own, what.
- [08:21]
B
37 and 36, I think it was. He push, push. Yeah.
- [08:25]
A
Yeah.
- [08:25]
B
Unheard of back in the day that you even do that.
- [08:27]
A
Right?
- [08:28]
B
And I'll tell you, Mike, I think the one time he. I don't know if he'll say this, but I think he felt like he lacked a little bit of aggression in the super bowl, and I think he has a little bit of a regret, you know, the. The. The polar opposite. When Doug Peterson beat the Patriots, you know, Super Bowl 52, he went I mean, every, every chip was pushed to the middle of the table and that's usually Nick. And he, he erred a little bit on the side of being cautious. I don't think you'll ever see that again from him. I really, I truly believe that. And I was frankly shocked at Andy Reid. I thought Mahomes kind of gave it a look like, and ran off. I, I think that was a mistake by Andy.
- [09:02]
A
Yeah, I, I thought so last night. I thought the way they were putting pressure on converting on third downs, especially, especially with Mahomes being able to run for a lot that he did last night in that game. Okay. You mentioned the tush push, the brotherly shove, all those things. It's comical to me the reaction of the NFL to this, especially in, in certain circles. Bills fans are going to see it on Sunday. What do you, what do you make of it?
- [09:30]
B
You just hit a nerve. Okay. Because it honestly really ticks me off that, that, that there's even a notion that this should be banned. Why? Because one team does it better than any other team. There is no health threat posed. You can hurt on any football play because two Giants got hurt when they didn't even practice it. By Dable's own admission, they didn't practice it properly and two Giants got hurt. We're going to ban it because, because nobody can stop it. Because they do it better than anybody else. It's absurd. But they are going to ban it. They will, they will blame health. They will make up some excuse because there'll be too many people pushing against it. Mike. I just think it's the most automatic play I've ever seen in football. For, for, from all the years I've been watching. I, I, I, it's, they, they run it a different way. They practice it more. Jason Kelce said himself, we practice it more than any team does. That's, it's not, you know, some coincidence that we have success. They work hard at it. I think it's patently absurd. I would, I would advise every team to do it. And if you can do it, good for you.
- [10:31]
A
Yeah, I mean, look, the Bills have a 6 foot 5 quarterback. He may not, you know, lift the weights that Jalen hurts does, but Josh Allen's a strong runner.
- [10:39]
B
Right?
- [10:39]
A
They're not, you know, they're not great on the quarterback sneaks. They don't do them that often. And when you see like a great player like Micah Parsons just floating along the line, they're all trying different things. I saw it last night. They try to Jump over the top. Kelsey's the key to this thing.
- [10:55]
B
He's the key. He gets the leverage. Kelsey's literally his, his belly, which is a little extended from Travis's is on the ground and he is just manhandling people. And yes, you touched on it. Hertz is incredibly strong with his lower body. Okay. He just is. And, and that's rare. And yes. Do you get help from behind? Yes. It's legal. So they're doing nothing. That's illegal. It's in the rules. And it started off, I think you're seeing more people come around to it a little bit more. But there were enough people pushing back. I, I have this, this argument with, with the, my partner on the post game show, on the Eagles post game show. He doesn't think it's a real football play and I think it's, we, we go tooth and nail with it. I think it's a joke.
- [11:35]
A
Yeah. I mean look it and it works and they'll do it all the time. So honestly, when they're inside of two yards, it's over. First down.
- [11:46]
B
Well, and the other thing is gives you the advantage. So basically you're fourth downs always in play for you where it's not for other teams. And it doesn't matter where you are on the field. So it allows you to call plays a little bit differently. So there's a lot of advantages to it. It also allows you to keep drives alive which can milk clock, which can keep good offenses off the field. You know, there's a lot, there's a lot of layers off of it.
- [12:09]
A
Yeah. Brian Johnson is the offensive coordinator. I see a bit of a parallel here with the Bills because they had brought up Ken Dorsey as the quarterbacks coach. Relationship with the quarterback moves in when Brian Dall leaves. It had been a struggle. It was okay last year. Struggle this year. Then he's gone. Brian Johnson comes in. He was working with the team. Known hurts since he was a little kid. Right. He's known him forever.
- [12:37]
B
Yeah.
- [12:37]
A
And then Shane Steichen leaves and Johnson takes over. What's it been like? Where do you think they are now with the way he calls plays?
- [12:46]
B
I think it's getting better. I think it's been choppy. I, I, I, There was, you know, an example is the, the Chiefs game. He calls for two bubble screens that were just sort of inexplicable. And, and I, I don't know that he has a great feel yet. Like I, I certainly think that he and and Herz have a good relationship. Have a Chemistry have a synergy, if you will. But I, I see moments where he goes into, into this mode where I, I almost think it's like pre planned. I wanted to work this in, in this moment and here we go. We're gonna do it rather than this is working tonight. Jets game, that's their only loss, so it's hard to get crazy about this, but they really got away from the run in a big way and you know, I, I think that was an example. We've seen other times where certain guys don't get early in the season. Dallas Goddard, who's hurt right now, was not getting very many opportunities and he's an excellent tight end. I didn't quite get that. I'm willing, like I'm always willing when somebody is new to give them some leeway. And I think he's earned a little bit of grace period from Eagles fans. And it's not, you know, nobody's going crazy right now. But I would say of the two new coordinators, he and Shawn Decai, who's on the defensive side, I would say he's more under the microscope because he inherited a much better situation than Desai did.
- [14:04]
A
Now, if you're a Bills fan, you haven't been and you haven't been paying that much attention to the Eagles. You watched the game last night. Devonte Smith had a great game.
- [14:11]
B
Yeah.
- [14:12]
A
A.J. brown was not really much of a factor. From what I've seen this year and even last year when there's games when AJ Brown is maybe not as much of a factor, they tend to go back to him a lot the next week. Should we be looking for that on Sunday?
- [14:28]
B
If there's a betting line for an over under for catches and over under for catches in the first series, I would, I would leap all over A.J. brown. Mike. He is. I'd be shocked if he doesn't come back with a big game. Nick Sirianni tends to do this when someone is not. Doesn't get opportunities. Devonte is a good example of it. Dallas Goddard's a good example of it. They go out of their way. It's almost like a basketball player where you're trying to get him some touches early to get him going. They do that. So I would look for A.J. brown early in this game especially. You're going to see more opportunities for the Eagles receivers because Goddard's out. So I, I would expect the Eagles to utilize both of those guys, Devonte Smith and A.J. brown, quite a bit in this game.
- [15:09]
A
Yeah. And you. We've talked about Kelsey in the. In the brotherly shovel. He's not going to retire, is he?
- [15:16]
B
I think if they win it, he will. I think if they don't, all bets are off, you know, look, he. He takes a beating, man. Yeah, he is still phenomenal. But if you watch, there's a very good documentary on Netflix, or it's either. I think it's on that. I forget where it's at.
- [15:33]
A
Anyway, it's called about Kelsey. Yep.
- [15:34]
B
Yeah, very good. It gives you some insight into his home life and it walks you through last year. And there's moments where he's really banged up, man. He can't really play with the kids. The. The wife's like, you have no idea what these guys go through, etc. I do think there's a push and a pull there. I mean, even Travis floated on the Monday night broadcast and he. He's thinking about hanging it up pretty soon. I would say they win it, he's out. I'd say they don't. To be determined.
- [15:57]
A
Yeah. I mean, he's incredible. I. Look, I. I think they're both first ballot hall of Famers, unless I'm missing something here. What's three time All Pro? He'll probably make it again.
- [16:07]
B
Yeah.
- [16:08]
A
And Jason, and it's been something. All right, how about this defense? Because I never know what to make of the Eagles defense Bills fans did. The Bills did the same thing the Dolphins that the Eagles did, where they just controlled them after a few good plays and it was like, done. And then they do it last night where they stop Mahomes throwing. But then they play Washington and they light them up.
- [16:28]
B
I mean, there are times Sam Howell looks like Dan Marino.
- [16:30]
A
Yeah, no kidding. Two different games. It's Sam Howell, superstar.
- [16:34]
B
Yeah.
- [16:35]
A
Is this defense any good?
- [16:37]
B
I'll tell you. Well, what's good is the defensive line.
- [16:41]
A
Okay.
- [16:41]
B
I can tell you that they have a very, very. Hassan Redick is a beast. Josh Sweat is a beast. Jaylen Carter, it was so NFL ready when he came in from Georgia last year. And Jordan Davis has taken a huge leap forward. So the defensive line and Brandon Graham, still, I think they've paced him. He'll start to come on as the season goes. They're good there. Everything else is really in question, especially the secondary. James Bradbury, frankly, has had a bad year, and there's concerns that he's kind of hit a wall. Slay is not the same player that he was. While he's still solid. He's not a superstar like he was. They. They lost Avante Maddox very early in the season, which was a big loss for them, I believe. He's a Buffalo guy and he. They lost him. Actually. He's Detroit guy, but he. He went down. That hurt them because they haven't really been able to figure out the nickel slot. They got Bradley Roby off the street. He played well one game, got hurt, he's back. That helps. They got. They traded for Kevin Byard, who has been a very good safety throughout his career. He's not quite the same guy, but he's now knows the system a little bit better. He had a miscommunication on Monday night where there was a breakdown, but he did have an interception, too. I think the secondary is improving, but by all I would tell you that the biggest Achilles heel of this team is that secondary. Like, if Josh Allen gets time, Josh Allen should be able to have a good game in the air against the secondary, but the key is if the Eagles aren't getting a pass rush on him.
- [18:09]
A
Yeah, I always want to know this from the outside, especially someone who covers the NFL as closely as you do. You've seen where the Bills have been. What's your perception from Philly of the Bills and Josh Allen and Sean McDermott right now?
- [18:23]
B
I'm a huge Shawn McDermott fan, and I'm surprised that they've looked as inconsistent as they have this year. That doesn't feel like him. I think, frankly, you guys have had some tough luck in the playoffs, games where I was rooting very hard for the Bills to win, and they did not. And some of that, you know, was late game management of things which maybe didn't, you know, pan out, obviously. But I didn't think this year would be a year where they haven't one consecutive game since, what, weeks three and four. I did not think that would be the case. That doesn't feel like a hallmark of what Sean McDermott does. I think Josh Allen too often plays hero ball, frankly. And it's okay to punt, it's okay to throw a ball away. We saw a lot of that with Carson Wentz, and I think Allen's a much better quarterback, don't get me wrong. But he did a lot of those kind of things. And I see those traits from time to time where you say Josh or will make a play that you're just, you know, it's a Hall of Fame kind of play. So I find it frustrating with him. I find the whole thing with Stefan Diggs kind of bizarre in general. I. I never know what's going on there. He's happy. He's not. I don't know. But I think generally, if you look at the turnovers and what does he have? 15ish? Josh?
- [19:35]
A
Yeah. The most in the league since he's been in the league.
- [19:38]
B
If you're looking at an issue, why this team is 6 and 5 right now, I would say turnovers are a pretty big part of it because frankly, a lot of the numbers are pretty good. Yeah, that I look at.
- [19:48]
A
Yeah. I mean, he's got Joe Brady now. Brady is trying to change some stuff, and Allen looked better against a really good jets defense this past week. And I think he feels like he's found something. But they're coming to Philly to play in this game and, you know, I always push back to people because they all, you know, I had to hear about throwing snowballs at Santa Claus kind of stuff, and I'm like, really? That's the best.
- [20:10]
B
He's still doing this.
- [20:11]
A
And they think that it's like. But, you know, the Link. Hey, look, people see it when the Phillies are playing in the Sixers in the playoffs, but at the Link. I mean, I'm not saying they're unbeatable at the Link, but it's been pretty close. Right. They lost to Washington last year. They lost to New Orleans when Hertz didn't play.
- [20:30]
B
Correct.
- [20:30]
A
They won the rest of them over the last couple of years, destroyed the.
- [20:34]
B
Two playoff teams last year, the Giants and the 49ers.
- [20:37]
A
In the 49ers, it's a great home field advantage. It is.
- [20:39]
B
I mean, there's a few. There's a few in the league. You know, Buffalo is one of them. So I think Buffalo, I think Philadelphia, Kansas City among them, Seattle. There are some really good home field advantages. The Link is right there. With any. Is it quite 700 level vet in terms of anger and, you know, no, but it's still heated, it's still loud. It's still a place that, you know, there could be some, some young children saying you're number one in a different kind of way as your bus rolls in. Yes. That stuff still happens.
- [21:09]
A
Yeah. I mean, look, it happens in Buffalo too, but there's this perception that, okay, so visiting fans. So Bill's fans travel. I don't know how many are coming to Philly, but it's Thanksgiving weekend. Some people got some time off. So what would your advice be to Bills fans going into the Link on Sunday?
- [21:25]
B
You know what? See, I'm not one who says you can't wear your jersey or represent your team. I'm not. I, I would. No to me. Like that's absurd. But do you want to be smart poking the bear? Like I don't think you want to incite anything. I think you go, you cheer for your team, but it's probably not necessary to give a Jalen hurts, sucks or something like that. Then you may be, you know, you might be getting yourself into some trouble. I would just say go there, do your thing for your team and yeah, don't be poking around any, any, any.
- [21:58]
A
Yeah. Look, let's be honest. They're not wearing a Cowboys jersey.
- [22:01]
B
That's correct. More acceptance of anybody non star.
- [22:05]
A
Yeah, it's obviously bad parenting, whatever.
- [22:07]
B
It is bad parenting. That's correct. Wanting outlier, wanting to be different. Yes, right, exactly.
- [22:12]
A
Doesn't happen that way. And the last thing I want to ask you about is people. I mean obviously a lot of people here know my roots and know where I have come from as a, certainly as a sports fan through the years. But I think, I think for the Bills chances to come in and knock off the Eagles, I think that win against Kansas City on Monday night helps the Bills chances. I think. Yeah, right. I mean with they got the Niners and the Cowboys coming up after this, if there's going to be a moment of a flat or maybe not as fired up Eagles team, you sense that could be the case.
- [22:49]
B
Yeah, if there's ever going to be a moment, I think it is. I mean you're coming off an incredibly emotional pitch of a game in Kansas City against your former coach against, you know, avenging, even though they didn't play that whole storyline up, but avenging the super bowl loss, whatever, there's that. And then all the Niners have done since Brock Purdy's elbow got exploded by Hassan Redick is cry and whine. That's all they've done. Players, coaches, management, fans. So this thing has been circuit on their calendar and the Eagles know that. Right. I would caution the Eagles and not that they need advice from me, but you're talking about a very desperate Buffalo team that really can probably only afford Mike to win, lose maybe one more game, maybe the rest of the year. They are going to come in hungry and desperate and that is a, a good combination as far as I'm concerned. So I would be on the side of be real leery of this Buffalo team. I think this is going to be one super tough game for the Eagles.
- [23:45]
A
Good. Well, look, this is, this is almost complete. You had me, you know, get a shot in on the Cowboys you mentioned the Niners. They give me a hard time all the time. I refer to them as the 40 whiner. Every time I talk about them.
- [23:56]
B
They're the worst.
- [23:57]
A
It's just terrible.
- [23:58]
B
Yeah.
- [23:59]
A
If I took a shot at the Mets it would be complete. But you know, that's done anyhow.
- [24:03]
B
Yeah. You're in a safe space right now.
- [24:05]
A
Yes, that's the way it goes. But I'm looking forward to it. I think it's going to be a fun game. I think it's big for both teams in different ways.
- [24:12]
B
Yeah.
- [24:13]
A
I think the Bills have found something here and they're hoping to extend it and maybe they catch the Eagles in that time. So I think the Eagles got to be ready to go when, when the case comes. We always want to know where people can find you. Social media. WIP on YouTube. Let everybody know.
- [24:28]
B
Yeah. @ RL Sports, on Twitter, slash X whatever. Whatever we're calling it these days.
- [24:33]
A
Right.
- [24:34]
B
And if you just go to YouTube, do a search for Jacob J A K I B Sports. My show is Sports Take. It's every day 11am to 2pm with Derek Gunn who's the best and then WIP. I'm all over the place but I do the Eagles post game show. For example I'm on Friday morning at 6am and then I'm on Saturday at 3pm and then after the game on Sunday so it's all over and, and Wednesday night 7 to 11 so it's all over the place Mike. So I always post it. I always promote from, you know, from, from whatever I'm on and it's all good. But it's always a pleasure being with you man. It's. It's always fun.
- [25:09]
A
Well, I appreciate it and this is great insight because I know Bill's fans are interested in what's going to be going on, what they're coming into and what kind of setup this game is going to be. I think it's going to be a really good one. 425 again. Well thanks a lot again to our guest Rob Ellis. We appreciate the look in on what's going to go on the Bills and the Eagles coming up on Sunday. That's going to do it for us. Again we ask you please make sure to like comment and subscribe to the Buffalo Plus YouTube channel presented by Connors and Ferris. And we'll see you next time on Buffalo Plus.