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Buffalo Plus: A Buffalo Bills podcast
Buffalo Plus LIVE: The Bills SLOW START STRUGGLES, Josh Allen's MVP case, and 'BEST' playoff chance?
01:04:11
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- [00:00]
A
I'm gonna use a big word that I can't spell.
- [00:02]
B
Okay.
- [00:02]
A
For the narrative from the national media to say that the Bills have to win it now. All of this stuff, it's their best chance. It's disingenuous. It is, yes. It's asinine to sit there and say now and asinine.
- [00:16]
C
You are on a roll.
- [00:17]
A
Go ahead. Smell either of those.
- [00:18]
C
Dan's cooking. Go ahead.
- [00:29]
A
This is the Buffalo plus podcast.
- [00:31]
B
All right. Hello and welcome to Buffalo Plus Live. Give yourselves a round of applause. We are here at Riverwork. Shout out White Claw for the amazing night. Make sure you put in your drawing because there's some awesome stuff from White Claw. Yeah, we got the peach. I'm going black cherry. Dan, what are you doing?
- [00:49]
A
Peach and I have a black cherry on deck.
- [00:51]
B
Yeah. You're ready to go for tonight.
- [00:53]
C
Danny's having a night.
- [00:54]
B
Mike Catalana, Dan Fates. I am Jenna Cottrell. Please be sure to, like, comment, subscribe, and share. We're here at Riverworks downtown Buffalo. We're gonna have a lot of fun talking Bill's Browns where Buffalo is at. Do a little bit about the injuries. Credit to me, Dan will have. We'll talk about Josh Allen, MVP stuff. We got some free samples going around as well. We're gonna have a lot of fun here tonight.
- [01:17]
A
Michael White Claw, Riverworks place. Awesome.
- [01:20]
B
Yeah.
- [01:21]
C
Yes. Did you want to take credit for something right away? I did.
- [01:25]
A
I did already.
- [01:26]
C
I'm gonna let him. Dan in the car, announces, I have something I need to take credit for. And you know, Dan hates to take credit for things, so we'll let him go ahead. What do you got for us there, Daniel?
- [01:36]
A
Yeah, this was something I've been sitting on because I wasn't in Foxborough with you guys, but. And I haven't seen you since, so this was the first time seeing you. We talked a lot at our live event last week, and I was commenting on what people like the conversations that were going on in the chat. So if you're watching along on YouTube at home, please continue to follow along and comment. And we want to hear from you. You guys said that Stefan Diggs was still a really good player and the Bills needed to watch out for.
- [02:05]
C
Oh, my God.
- [02:06]
A
And I said there was. And I said there was nothing to worry about. And how many yards did Siobhan Diggs have?
- [02:14]
B
It seems like, you know, so.
- [02:17]
C
So do you know what? A straw man argument.
- [02:19]
A
No, no, no, no.
- [02:20]
C
It's when you build up this argument.
- [02:22]
A
I almost clipped it from last Week's show. I almost clipped it.
- [02:26]
C
He had.
- [02:27]
B
You have a family at home. You have better stuff to do.
- [02:29]
C
Very impactful game. He dominated the first game against the Bills.
- [02:34]
B
He did. He had 146 yards in that first game.
- [02:36]
C
And that's why Jenna and I wisely pointed out Taron Johnson and the middle of the defense need to be better in this one. And they were. That's what we pointed out.
- [02:48]
A
No, you said he's still. And I said that game that he had back in Orchard park, he was a difference maker. And then you looked at what he has been like recently. He's not that same player. And I went through and I said over the last eight games, you guys all laughed as I read out his stats of like 23 yards, 33 yards. And the chat was like, oh, if Christian Benford can't go, Diggs is going to torch them. And I was like, well, he's not going.
- [03:10]
C
He wouldn't be going against Bamford. Yeah.
- [03:13]
A
You didn't think that was coming?
- [03:14]
B
I honestly forgot about it.
- [03:16]
A
I didn't.
- [03:18]
C
Yeah.
- [03:19]
A
I never forget what a take is. Right.
- [03:21]
B
Yeah.
- [03:22]
C
So Dan has labeled these stats that he comes up with. Danalytics.
- [03:26]
A
Danalytics. That's the new thing we're going with.
- [03:27]
C
So the Danalytics. So, you know, papers give him. We'll give him credit.
- [03:32]
B
Yes.
- [03:32]
A
We ran out of cue cards, so we're just using printer paper for my danalytics.
- [03:36]
C
That's it for Danalytics.
- [03:38]
B
Okay, let's get in some. Some actual.
- [03:40]
C
Step on Diggs.
- [03:41]
A
Diggs had more action on the sidelines dancing around than he did on this.
- [03:44]
C
That is true. Diggs was doing a lot of dancing at the game.
- [03:47]
B
Yeah, that's good. That's clipped if I'm the Buffalo Bills. Yeah. All right, let's talk this week ahead.
- [03:52]
C
Yes.
- [03:53]
B
Wouldn't be Dan without doing something like that off the top. All right, let's talk though. Bills right now, 10 and 4 getting ready for the Browns on Sunday. Playoffs could be clinched this weekend if the Bills get a win as well as some help with. Where is this Bill's team out right now?
- [04:08]
C
I think they're playing well that, you know, Witness said that at halftime on Sunday, but that second half, I think, was the best football they played all year. I mean, the defense was really good when they needed to be on the field. The offense not only dominated the game with five straight touchdowns, they maintained control of the ball for basically the, you know, three quarters of the second half. I thought that was great. I think that is their full formula to win, where they play better defense. Josh Allen makes some special plays, but he doesn't have to be Superman the entire game. And they run the football. And I think they can beat anybody when they play like that. Not that they can't win, as we've seen, when Josh just goes nuclear and does everything he does. But I thought the way he played Sunday, just totally under control, threw the ball well, but they ran it well. He used his legs, Jen. I thought that was the best way they can play. And that was against a good Patriots team.
- [05:09]
B
Yeah.
- [05:10]
C
Maybe not as good as they thought they were, but I thought that was good. I think that bodes well for them, certainly the rest of the regular season and into the playoffs.
- [05:18]
B
Well, I think you can get a lot of confidence the way this Bills team has been winning games as of lately, like backs up against the wall. They've been able to play better defense down the stretch. They've been able to turn the ball over. They've been able to make impactful plays. And then also you have the NFL MVP in Josh Allen. And I think when you have that formula, and we mentioned earlier before the podcast started, about starting faster, like, you want to do that better and more. But I think for this Bills team, when you look at the playoff picture, it's awesome to have the confidence if you're down in a game, that. That does not mean you are out.
- [05:51]
A
Yeah. And I'm sure for everybody watching here or watching at home, like, the defense has been probably so frustrating.
- [06:00]
C
Yeah.
- [06:01]
A
To try and compartmentalize how they can play one way for 30 minutes and another way for the. The last 30 minutes, because it's almost like they play possum. It's like they. It's like they play robo dope in the first half and let the offense tire themselves out. The Patriots were doing whatever they wanted. Eight yards of play, running trick plays, just for the sake of running trick plays.
- [06:24]
C
Yeah.
- [06:24]
A
And I was. I had tweeted that Josh McDaniels had a tough time deciding whether he wanted to pass for 10 yards or run the ball for 10 yards. Like that was the toughest thing that he had to go through. But they don't come back. And Josh doesn't get that praise, which, you know, understand it's the quarterback. But they don't come back if it's not for that defense in the second half.
- [06:43]
C
Right.
- [06:43]
A
And, yeah, it is funny. We joke around like you can't play the game well if you remove that play. But if we were to Play that game.
- [06:51]
B
Danalytics, you can remove analytics allows you.
- [06:54]
A
To remove a 65 yard touchdown. The Patriots other 17 plays in the second half went for 15 yards. Yeah, they are incredible by EPA. They are second best defense in football in the second half of the last four weeks.
- [07:10]
C
And Jenna, there's something to that. Janet. I think the defense has some older players, they have some flaws on the D line. It is not the type of unit that you just like the Houston Texans where they just line up and they're just better than you at a lot of spots and they dominate. It honestly takes coaching and I know you're frustrated a lot of times in the first half when they're playing, but when they try to line up and basically play straight football, it isn't working. They do have an elite ability to adjust and I know it's gone from terrible to good, but they really do. And I think it helps. The downside of having the older players and I think the older guys can really make things work. I think it's, you know, it's the older guys that are the glue.
- [07:58]
B
Dan drink. But the one don't really make it a personal.
- [08:03]
C
The one plus, the one plus of having a lot of years in reality is the experience. Jordan Poyer's got experience. Trey White, Matt Milano, Shaq Thompson. So when they go, we're going to change this up in the second half. I really do think that is a strength. Maybe it's not their strength in the first half of the game when they're not adjusting to what the other team's doing. They've adjusted well, they've performed well, they've helped get their teammates on the field in the right spot. And once they get a little confidence in that defense, it has been a just a much better unit.
- [08:38]
B
But how, how do you start faster like that is the question. Because this, this team, like, how do.
- [08:45]
A
You block Miles Garrett?
- [08:47]
B
We can get into that later.
- [08:50]
A
Yeah, but that's part of this where this has kind of been the MO for the last like few years under Sean McDermott and it's the in game adjustments and it's why, what do they.
- [09:01]
B
Put in those orange slices?
- [09:03]
A
Like, I do find it so interesting and like I wasn't. Although Jenna will critique my Twitter account and I was harsh on them in the first half, like many of us were. There is something to making in game adjustments and it really feels like the Bills don't show any of their cards in the first quarter or the first half. And then they read and react and I thought Sean's answers after the game was like, well, you can't start this slow all the time. And he's like, you're right. But there is something to being able to make in game coaching adjustments that is such a big part of the game. Instead of just saying, well, we've only got one plan, they beat it. Now we're backs are against the wall. They're able to buckle down in this halftime. I know we joke around about it, but I was telling Renee it isn't like this big powwow meeting. Enough time to go in, the guys go to the bathroom and they're back out on the field. Like, this isn't some like, kumbaya meeting at halftime. They're in and they're out. It's the coaches that are saying, okay, looking at the film right then and there and saying, we have to switch this.
- [10:02]
C
So Jenna was going to say, makes me laugh. Dan's so right about the halftime. And you know what you said, how quick it is.
- [10:09]
A
Disney movie. They like regroup, they change jerseys and they go back out there.
- [10:13]
B
It's not that.
- [10:14]
C
So Dan mentioned, you know, the score, stop, score. And in the after the Pittsburgh game, Josh says that score, stop, score. And he laughed because they were on defense first, but they scored. So I'm talking to Shaq Thompson afterward now, you'd think in your mind, you're like, josh got the whole team together. And he said, all right, fellas, so score, stop, score. I asked Shaq about it. He goes, who? Who said that? And I said, josh. And he goes, he said that? And I go, well, he told us he said it. He goes, oh, well, I didn't hear it. Which is. But then they did it, so it was more about them. I mean, Josh might have meant it to kind of fire him up. He might have just meant it like, all right, that's kind of the plan. But you're right, it's. Come in honestly, go to the bathroom, have maybe something quick to eat, drink whatever it is, and go back out for the second half.
- [11:07]
B
It's not an impassioned rah rah speech. But if I am Sean McDermott, I am saying we are better than this.
- [11:13]
C
Yeah.
- [11:14]
B
And I think that's why you see some of that better execution in the second half, because this team can make those adjustments and then it puts them in a better spot to win. But it does come down to that execution piece. And we've seen the Bills be able to do that.
- [11:27]
A
Absolutely. I suggested the defense plays a 30 minute game before warm ups. I Don't know if that.
- [11:33]
C
So how's the third game going to go exactly?
- [11:35]
A
I don't know how that's going to be, but I just think that for everybody that's tweeting and I'm angry and saying, Fire Sean McDermott. It's a good thing they didn't at halftime because they were nearly perfect and smarter people than me. Break down how they were able to confuse the Drake May in that second half. And it's all set up by maybe their inability to get stops in the first half, but like, whatever it is, they were able to confuse Drake May in big spots. And I know they talk about, well, we were able to make those big stops in big moments. I'd argue getting a stop in the first quarter would also be a big moment for momentum. So I, I kind of push back at that. But when they were able to start to lean on the Patriots, I. You saw a difference and they were able to fly around. And Cat Williams, the comedian.
- [12:25]
B
Yeah.
- [12:25]
A
He has this saying that he says a Chrysler 300 looks like a phantom the car until a phantom pulls up next to him. Drake May looked like an mvp and then an MVP pulled up next to him.
- [12:38]
B
We found each other too much.
- [12:40]
C
That was really good.
- [12:42]
B
Well, it wasn't his line like an applause.
- [12:45]
C
No, but he. He said it correctly. That was really good.
- [12:50]
A
I like that.
- [12:50]
B
Well, as you were talking, I was thinking about.
- [12:52]
A
I didn't listen to the pod when you guys were in Foxborough.
- [12:54]
B
Well, no, in Foxborough at that game, Drake May rushing touchdown, MVP chance, second rushing touchdown for him. And then the crowd in the second half goes quiet because the real NFL MVP showed up.
- [13:07]
C
Yeah.
- [13:07]
B
And Josh Allen said, wait, Drake, hold my beer or hold. Excuse me, hold my white claw.
- [13:13]
C
Yeah.
- [13:13]
B
Because the real NFL MVP is here.
- [13:16]
C
You know, I said before that says.
- [13:18]
A
Why is Dan so far away? And then back to back comments. These are great. I don't care. Fire McDermott. The very next comment is, I love McDermott. That is the Bills mafia in a nutshell.
- [13:30]
C
So I said before the game that Josh doesn't ever say it. He doesn't imply it, but he takes it personally about these other quarterbacks. And I don't think he sits there and goes, I don't like Lamar Jackson. I don't like. But he knows the way people perceive matchups against quarterbacks. He's beaten Mahomes, what, four times he's beaten him or five now five times in the regular season. He's got to get him in the playoffs. You better believe he was well aware he had not beaten Joe Burrow. He beats Joe Burrow. You better believe he knew what everybody was saying about Drake May. I think he really likes Drake May.
- [14:09]
B
Yeah.
- [14:09]
C
Like, hey, Drake's a great kid, but I'm not letting him get that on me. And I know he doesn't play against the other quarterback, but absolutely he played in that second half in total control. And then his defense, to your point, made Drake may look like just a young quarterback in his second year.
- [14:28]
B
Yeah.
- [14:29]
A
DAnalytics.
- [14:30]
B
DAnalytics.
- [14:31]
C
There you go.
- [14:32]
A
Hashtag Bill's point differential in the third quarter this season. What do you think it is? Did you peak?
- [14:38]
B
No, I don't have my glasses.
- [14:39]
C
In the third quarter.
- [14:40]
A
Third quarter?
- [14:41]
C
I'm going to say plus 67.
- [14:45]
A
Plus 73.
- [14:47]
C
Not a bad guess.
- [14:48]
A
What do you think the fourth quarter is?
- [14:50]
C
Plus 55.
- [14:52]
A
43.
- [14:53]
C
Wow.
- [14:53]
A
Their point differential is plus 116 in the second half this season. By far they're better.
- [15:00]
C
And they have needed nearly every one of those points.
- [15:03]
A
Sure as hell have.
- [15:04]
B
They have. Let's talk about. I didn't know if you're going to talk more. Let's talk about the narrative out. This is a narrative based business. We all know that there's a narrative out there. Michael.
- [15:15]
C
Yes.
- [15:16]
B
That this is. This is the easiest year for the Bills to win the super bowl because the Chiefs aren't in it. What is your take on that?
- [15:25]
C
So let's start with this. It is never easy to win the Super Bowl. It is always a hard road. They can say like the one seed with one game off and two games at home is the, quote, easiest. Well, certainly you skip a game. Yeah, but it depends on who you're playing. I don't know anybody outside of the, you know, espn, Fox Sports talking head, Stephen A. Smith, Nick Wright types who would not think that going to Houston or going to Denver is not going to be a tough game. Like, I don't know what games they're watching. A lot of them don't watch the games, to be honest with you. But I don't know what games they're watching. They have to win three games and likely are going to have to win three on the road. Now, that being said, without those quarterbacks in it, and maybe Lamar is not in it. Josh is by far the most accomplished and he's the best player. First of all, he's the best player of all of them right now, but the best player. But to say that it's easiest, honestly. We'll talk about it. Which matchups are the best like them going to Houston is brutal. If they can avoid Houston. Now, I'm thinking much differently just because that's been a tough place for him. So I want to push back on that. Just to say don't take away from what it would take to go to the super bowl by trying to pretend because those couple of guys are not in the playoffs. I think is. I think it's ridiculous. I think. Is it easier without them? I guess, yeah. But you still got to get to the championship game and you got to win it.
- [17:04]
B
Well, they're also not in it or might not be because they haven't been.
- [17:07]
C
Playing well and they all lost to the Bills.
- [17:09]
B
Yeah.
- [17:09]
A
I'm going to use a big word that I can't spell.
- [17:11]
B
Okay.
- [17:12]
A
For the narrative from the national media to say that the Bills have to win it now, all this stuff, it's their best chance. It's disingenuous. It is, yes. It's asinine to sit there and say now and asinine.
- [17:25]
C
You are on a roll. Go ahead.
- [17:27]
A
Either of those.
- [17:27]
C
Dan's cooking.
- [17:28]
A
Go ahead. To say that just because Mahomes isn't in it doesn't mean that the playoffs isn't as much of a bear as it always is. Especially as if the they're not going to win the division, which seems it's unlikely that that happens. So you're still going to have to go on the road and to make it to the Super Bowl. So to act like you can just pick the helmets of the higher seed to advance and because of no Patrick Mahomes, like nobody was saying that with Mahomes when he was like, oh, you got to go on the road. He hasn't done it before. That's going to be tough. But now because Mahomes isn't in it and Josh has to do it, this is an easy path. I think it's B.S.
- [18:06]
C
Yeah, I'm with you on that.
- [18:07]
B
Well, let's talk the playoff picture because we are getting closer to the end of the regular season. Where the Bills are at right now mentioned earlier they could clinch a playoff spot with a win as well as some hope from the Texans or the Colts. Like where do you think that's shaping up? Because like the Bills will likely be. I mean we talk about the division. It's inside track for the Patriots to win. But where is this playoff picture looking with the Bills right now?
- [18:32]
C
It's wild because sometimes we'll tweet out things and say, hey Bill's fans. Like this is what you need to root for. You don't really know what you need to root for yet. Yeah, right. Because sometimes you're like. Like for a little while, fans were rooting for the Chargers. You're like, knock off the Chiefs, maybe you beat the Broncos. And now you're like, oh crap, the Chargers keep winning.
- [18:52]
A
Yeah.
- [18:53]
C
Like these are the teams you're fighting for for playoff spots. Houston was way down. Now they're back. There will be moments where you're like, maybe we're rooting for. Well, you still should root for Pittsburgh, but that's a different story, I think just because get them into that four seed.
- [19:08]
A
Yeah.
- [19:08]
C
But who knows what Baltimore is going to do. So when I look at it, I go Jacksonville sort of. They can come out of nowhere. They've been good most of the year. Very good in the second half of the year. But like I kind of think you want Jacksonville to win that division.
- [19:22]
A
Yes.
- [19:22]
C
And you want.
- [19:23]
A
Because the Texas used to be a wild card team and you stay ahead of Houston so that if you do play the Texans, it's in Orchard Park.
- [19:29]
C
So. So there's your benefit. To the point before, if the Bills can win this week, beat the Eagles and then beat the jets, worst case, they're still ahead of the Jags. I mean, excuse me, they're still ahead of the Texans.
- [19:43]
A
But next week you're going to want the Texans to beat the Jaguars. No, the Chargers. You're going to want the Texans to beat the Chargers next week.
- [19:54]
C
Yes. Yes. So you don't again we. And that's as long as the Bills keep winning. They want the Texans to win. Does that make sense?
- [20:04]
B
That way ahead of them.
- [20:05]
C
Yes. Because the Texans have the tiebreaker on them.
- [20:09]
A
But this is where we get in the weeds.
- [20:10]
C
I would say. I would say if you're all wild cards, the chances of you meeting are in the AFC championship game, so. Which makes it a little bit different.
- [20:20]
A
Shout out Josh Martin in the chat big subscriber of the channel felt, you know, friend Santa brought Dana thesaurus.
- [20:27]
C
Oh.
- [20:28]
A
Which I thought was a very good comment.
- [20:29]
B
Yeah, that's pretty good. I do appreciate it.
- [20:31]
A
Ingenuous.
- [20:32]
C
Asinine.
- [20:33]
B
Asinine man. Asinine is crazy.
- [20:35]
A
Josh Allen's visor. Big love from Australia. I love your guys work. I'm Australia's biggest Bills fan.
- [20:42]
B
That's awesome.
- [20:43]
C
Great.
- [20:43]
B
Oh my gosh.
- [20:44]
C
International Buffalo plus Dan spell thesaurus.
- [20:48]
B
Well, he's looking at it. He's gonna go scroll back up to it. What do you think would be the best matchup I'M assuming Steelers. But what do you think?
- [20:56]
A
You want to be 5 and play this play in Pittsburgh?
- [20:58]
C
Were you talking to me?
- [21:01]
A
You always ask Mike.
- [21:02]
B
Okay, sorry. I'll ask Dan first. And then he's looking away.
- [21:06]
C
She asked me first because I am the.
- [21:08]
B
You're the elder statesman.
- [21:11]
C
Oldest.
- [21:12]
B
Well, you're a Hall of Famer, so, yeah, might as well. Okay. Daniel, who do you think would be the best matchup? Who do you want to see?
- [21:20]
A
I would feel comfortable going to Jacksonville or Pittsburgh. I think those are both. I'm fine with either of those scenarios.
- [21:27]
C
I'd feel comfortable with them going to Foxborough, too. Really? Yeah.
- [21:32]
B
After last Sunday. This past Sunday.
- [21:35]
A
Is Milton Williams playing?
- [21:36]
C
Yeah, he'll play. Ed Oliver might be.
- [21:39]
B
My dance is where he's very dismissive. Yeah, he'll play. Yeah.
- [21:42]
C
It's still Josh Allen.
- [21:44]
A
If somebody would be awesome about Stefan Diggs play.
- [21:46]
C
Hold on. Cat Williams, who's lining up next to each other here again?
- [21:50]
A
It's a Chrysler 300 and a Phantom.
- [21:52]
C
Phantom. Phantom. Yeah.
- [21:54]
A
So you're driving. Is that the new car? Buffalo plus is doing well these days. Be sure to like, comment and subscribe.
- [22:01]
C
Yeah.
- [22:02]
B
Why don't you give your take about mvp? Because you were. You were interested in doing that earlier.
- [22:09]
A
Yeah.
- [22:09]
C
Hands up how many people think Josh should win the MVP this year?
- [22:13]
B
Oh, that's a lot of people, Dan.
- [22:15]
A
Just kidding. I don't want to have this conversation anymore.
- [22:19]
B
What was the. What was the conversation?
- [22:21]
A
I just don't want the MVP award to go to the best player of December. I. I don't want this to be.
- [22:29]
C
So explain that because you don't want it to be decided now in like these last three.
- [22:34]
B
Three games.
- [22:34]
C
Right. Correct. I get you look.
- [22:36]
A
And what Josh has been. Josh Allen is the best player in the NFL. There's no question about that. But so has Michael Jordan in the NBA for when he was there for 20 years and LeBron James for 20 years. That doesn't mean you win the MVP award every single year. A big part of it that goes into it is narratives. And that's part of why Josh helped. Helped his case last year. Making. Putting up those numbers, the Bills winning after trading Stefan Diggs. All of that worked out. Matt Stafford's been probably the best quarterback statistically from week one to now. And I just don't want this to all of a sudden be who gets hot at the end. Especially if the Rams clinch the one seed they're playing tonight and if the Rams and like Matt Stafford hasn't won an mvp. He's been phenomenal. This Rams team is really good. I think he's more deserving of this award this year.
- [23:30]
C
Well, I think what Dan's talking about is a lot of people would say, Josh has got himself back in the race. He's playing better. The narrative about Stafford, first of all, he's a worthy guy to win. He's had a great year. And Dan's right because he, I said Dan's right.
- [23:48]
B
You just didn't say it.
- [23:50]
C
I know Stafford has had a great year. That team may win be number one. And he has never won it. And I do think voters think about that. And when the time comes to vote, it's going to be, well, Josh won it last year. Stafford's been great. This may be his last year, which would be wild to win the MVP and then retire. Yeah, but it could be his last year. I think they're predisposed to say, I, I want to vote for him this year. I don't think that's a negative against Josh. Now, if Josh goes out in the next three games to Dance Point and gets 14 touchdowns in the next three weeks, voters will notice that. And that could happen, especially if, like, the Rams lose tonight. It just takes a little away. But if I'm thinking about the vote now, I think Stafford's going to win it, and I think Josh is going to be second. It could change, but I think that's what's going to happen.
- [24:45]
B
But what do people here think? They think here, Josh Allen. You think Josh Allen.
- [24:49]
C
Josh Allen. Yeah.
- [24:50]
B
Yeah.
- [24:51]
A
It's fair.
- [24:52]
C
Or would you rather him be super bowl mvp? Yeah. Okay.
- [24:56]
B
That got a good pop. That was a good. Yeah, we love that. What were you gonna say, Dan?
- [25:00]
A
Yeah, I, I, I agree with, I can understand your case for Josh Allen. I, I can make it as well. And I thought he was more than deserving last year because of the success the team had along with the. He does more with less, but.
- [25:17]
C
And somehow he's doing more with even less this year.
- [25:19]
A
Correct. But I think that that argument has to walk a tightrope because you can't all of a sudden hold Puka Nakua and Devonte Adams and a good defense against Matt Stafford as a reason of, well, he shouldn't win it because he has Puka Nakua.
- [25:36]
C
No, I, I think the difference is if Matt Stafford would have won the MVP before, I think Josh would win it again this year.
- [25:42]
B
I'm just laughing at you because I feel like we closed that topic. You're like, wait, I'm A double down. Classic dad. Also, we want to go. There's a super chat comment. Shout out. Jake, Jenna, I don't have time to make dinner tonight. Any good pizza recommendations? Picasso's Pizza. Pizza.
- [26:01]
A
We don't eat any other kind of pizza. It's the only pizza place where we eat.
- [26:06]
B
Yeah, we're taking a white claw break as well.
- [26:08]
A
And Picasso pizza.
- [26:10]
B
What a good pairing. All right, let's talk this offense, because we've seen them improve over the last couple of weeks. It feels like they've been able to get a little bit of a rhythm, and especially in that second half. Have you seen enough progress from this group or. Who really stands out to you? Dan? I'm starting with Mike. But, Dan, who has really stood out to you in these last couple of weeks other than Josh? I mean, Josh has been phenomenal. We talked about the MVP conversation, but what have you seen?
- [26:35]
A
I've seen Christian Benford emerge as that. That top 10.
- [26:40]
B
See, this is why I don't ask you questions.
- [26:43]
A
I zoned out. I was reading the chat. Hang on, hang on.
- [26:48]
C
I got you.
- [26:48]
A
Dan Gun's 6078 said, Dan Fates is having a Hall of Fame Buffalo plus podcast.
- [26:54]
B
Yeah, well, that's also.
- [26:55]
C
Yeah, then you just fumbled right there.
- [26:57]
B
How is the offense doing? You're like Christian.
- [26:59]
C
Christian Benford. Well, he did score touchdown, so two of them. That's right.
- [27:05]
A
It's better than any Bill's wide receiver.
- [27:06]
C
It really is. Like, Benford is like, oh, my gosh.
- [27:09]
A
Analytics to back that up.
- [27:11]
C
Okay, do you. Do you just want me to answer it?
- [27:14]
B
Yes. Yeah.
- [27:14]
C
Dawson Knox.
- [27:15]
A
Mike. Mike, you go ahead first.
- [27:17]
C
Dawson Knox has stepped up with the offense, has he not?
- [27:20]
B
I mean, actually, let's give him the white claw grab of the week.
- [27:25]
C
There we go.
- [27:25]
B
White claw grab of the week to Dawson Knox. His two touchdowns.
- [27:29]
C
Grab life by the claw.
- [27:30]
B
Yeah, grab life by the claw. Because Also, that touchdown. Third and 15. Massive for the.
- [27:37]
C
No, no, no. They.
- [27:38]
A
They.
- [27:38]
C
How did they get to 15? Because, you know, the Patriots are sitting there with their coach, and he's like, they never call holding on the Bills.
- [27:46]
B
No, you're right.
- [27:47]
A
Sybo earned that one.
- [27:48]
C
Yeah. Yes. So they called the hold and. Yeah, so. And then the Bills got the touchdown, which was a great play.
- [27:57]
B
Yeah.
- [27:57]
C
Knox gets two scores the week. He's got the bait. I mean, all of it was so perfect for him, but in reality, he has stepped up. He has been more of a pass catcher. It's back to what he was at the level that I think he was when they paid him when he had a very good game against the Patriots in the AFC playoffs when they had the perfect game. And then they drafted Kincaid and his role changed and it's been different for him and Kincaid's been banged up. He missed practice again today and Knox just kind of seamlessly went back into his more of a pass catcher role. And Jenna, he's been, he's been very impactful for an offense that needs some impact in passing.
- [28:42]
B
I mean that catch was huge. Third and 15. The Bills have been driving. Then you have the penalty, it gets bumped back. I mean and, and you talk about just. He is the tight end one. Duncan Kate has made some really nice catches at moments throughout the season. He had a really nice one Patriots game earlier on. That was a tough catch in the red zone.
- [29:01]
A
But for me he also had the third and 14 conversion after the Trey White interception. Yes, that was massive.
- [29:09]
B
Yeah. So he's, he has made impact plays. Yeah, for sure. But I think you've seen Dawson kind of improve his game even more to be that guy that you can say in a big spot. Dawson, Knox.
- [29:21]
A
Dawson just feels more comfortable back in this role.
- [29:23]
B
Yeah.
- [29:24]
A
Like, like Dalton, King Cade is the Bills best offensive pass catcher, like best weapon when he's on the field. Now again, I, I don't think he's 100%. He did not practice again today. So that's the second trade days miss practice. But you, you could say any of the tight ends, you could say the tight ends as a whole have saved this offense.
- [29:47]
C
Yeah.
- [29:48]
A
Because.
- [29:48]
C
And the run analytics give the wide receiver numbers.
- [29:51]
A
Yeah, analytics are, are not great on the Bill's wide receiver room, which I have said is one of the worst five in the NFL. Talking about Khalil Shakir, Keon Coleman, Josh Palmer, Tyrell Shavers, Brandon Cooks and Gabe Davis. So the Bills six wide receivers that they have on their roster over the last four games, all of these guys combined have 29 catches for 330 yards. That is six players. That's why in the year 2025 that are averaging less than the wide receivers as a whole are averaging less than 86 yards per game. Khalil Shakir is their best wide receiver over the last four games. Houston, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and New England, 16 catches for 195 yards and one touchdown. The caveat there is that in the Houston game he had 8 and 110 of those. So if you take out that one game, they are average. They have under 240 yards of offense.
- [30:52]
C
And keep in mind during that time, Josh Allen has won AFC player of the week and could have won it a second time.
- [30:58]
B
Time. Yeah.
- [30:58]
A
The Bill's second best statistical wide receiver over these last four games is Gabe Davis, who has four catches for 48 yards and he missed the game. It was a healthy scratch. That is how bad the Bill's wide receivers are right now.
- [31:14]
B
Yeah, it's not good. But they have found their recipe to win. And I think earlier on in the season when they were trying to make the passing game work with the receivers, which understandably is what you're trying to do, it was not working. I think they've adapted and pivoted to the tight ends, to the. The running backs getting involved because that has been the avenue for them to get wins.
- [31:34]
C
No doubt about it. And we've gone this long and haven't mentioned, really mentioned James Cook. Yeah, he's been incredible this year. He should be first team all pro.
- [31:42]
B
He should.
- [31:42]
A
Jonathan Taylor, buffalo plus store.com. there's a cool let James Cook shirt. James Cook designed by Last Idea Holiday.
- [31:49]
B
Yeah, I don't know about shipping.
- [31:51]
A
Buffalo plus store.
- [31:52]
C
And you know, we were, you know, we were at camp every day and you know, he had the hold in and then all that stuff going on.
- [31:59]
B
Seems like so long ago.
- [32:00]
C
It does. And people weren't sure. And of course, they're also going up against Miles Garrett, who basically did a farewell tour to Cleveland and then came back, and he's having this incredible year. But James Cook came back. He's a better player than he was a year ago. I think he's also a weapon in the past game. So is Ty Johnson. Maybe not for total numbers, but for key plays. So to your point, Jenna, that's really where they need to go. And sometimes I feel badly including Shakir in with the negativity about the wide receivers, because I think Shakir is a very good player. He doesn't put up huge numbers. Last week they. They actually threw a slant to him, which was incredible. They threw one downfield to him. I think he can put up some numbers. I'd like to see them use them more. But the truth is, I mean, they just don't have enough at that position. My worry isn't like Sunday against Cleveland. My worry is in a big moment in a playoff game. Do you have a wide receiver that can help you?
- [32:57]
B
Yeah, and that's fair.
- [32:58]
A
Stats are like from 1980.
- [33:00]
C
Like, oh, no, they threw better in 1980.
- [33:03]
B
Yeah, it's not good.
- [33:04]
A
Keon Coleman has four.
- [33:05]
C
That was Jerry Butler.
- [33:07]
B
How many of this keon keon, four.
- [33:08]
A
Catches for 25 yards and one touchdown in the last three, four games. This isn't a one game stat line.
- [33:13]
C
And this is with Josh Allen as your quarterback.
- [33:15]
A
Josh Palmer, 3 for 37. Tyrell Shavers, 1 for 16. Brandon Cooks, 1 for 13. Who dropped the most perfect pass that you can imagine. You signed him to be this veteran, professional guy and even he can't hang on to the football.
- [33:29]
B
Yeah, I, I do want to touch on, while we're talking offensive players, all that you mentioned, the running backs. Ray Davis has been. You talk about a guy that doesn't get a lot of touches on the field, but then special. Here's a guy, special teams. He realized this was his opportunity dance.
- [33:47]
C
Is that number two? Wait a minute, hold on. Does that count as an interruption? We'll permit it. The White Claw interruption. We will permit it.
- [33:56]
A
I know. Sponsorship.
- [33:59]
B
Shout out. White Claw.
- [34:01]
C
Oh, my God. Daniel.
- [34:02]
B
Ray Davis, though, is taking advantage of. Of this opportunity.
- [34:05]
C
That is so. I talked to him yesterday. Yes. I talked to the players. Yes.
- [34:09]
B
Yeah.
- [34:09]
C
And we asked Ray about it and he was honest. He was like, yeah, this is not the way I thought the year was going to go. Thought he was going to contribute more in the, in the running game. He's had a couple of moments, but it really hasn't happened. A few catches and all, but he has embraced that kickoff. He leads the league 32.7 yards per return. He's already got one touchdown. It honestly feels like he's going to break it every time now. Like, he has been really, really good. They put Alec Anderson back there with him to block, and it looks funny, but he said it. He goes. It's just like when they have Reggie in front of him to block. It's like a running play. He catches the ball very effectively for a kickoff. He. He has never returned punts. Because people keep asking, he's going to return punts. I think he wanted to say, I don't mind doing kickoffs, but the guys who return punts are nuts. But he didn't say that. He's like, it's very different to return a punt, but he's been so good. And that's where he's obviously disappointed that he's not carrying the ball as much, but instead he stepped up. He really credits Chris Tabor, the special teams coach. They game plan for stuff and they come up with things. The kickoff rule. While we can make fun of the NFL for a lot of dumb stuff they do, the kickoff rule has worked. It has changed the kickoffs. They're a much more interesting play than they were.
- [35:31]
B
I just think it's cool to see, like, someone. You're right. Probably disappointed that he's not getting the opportunity he thought he would, but he's getting an opportunity in a different way and making the most out of it. And that has absolutely been. I mean, Josh Allen asked after the game on Sunday. The question was asked, what sparked that comeback? And he's like, right, Ray Davis.
- [35:49]
C
Yeah.
- [35:49]
A
And it's funny, we talked to some people today. They were talking about how great of guys a lot of the Bills players are and how thankful they are about that. Ray Davis was kicking field goals during the preseason.
- [36:00]
B
Kicking.
- [36:01]
C
Okay.
- [36:02]
A
And then it wasn't like he was handed the job out of training camp or the preseason. The kickoff return job.
- [36:09]
C
Oh, I thought you meant the kickoff job.
- [36:11]
A
I was gonna say, like, it was Codrington. They. They brought in Hardman. Like, he. He didn't really get opportunities until Hardman got injured.
- [36:19]
C
Yeah.
- [36:19]
A
And now all of a sudden, he's become a weapon. And we laughed before that the Bills were so boring and pathetic on their kickoff returns that it's like it wasn't anything special about it. And then all of a sudden, it's become an asset of this team that has given this offense that, for as good as. As good as they can be at times, have struggled in the field position game, and this guy has given them a massive boost in it.
- [36:45]
B
Yeah. No, it's true.
- [36:46]
C
So, Ray. We asked Ray if he tried out for the kicker job because they needed a kicker, and he's like, I missed the tryout. I would have done it. Raise your hand if you know the name of the kicker for Sunday.
- [37:00]
B
Yeah, that's fair.
- [37:03]
C
Michael Badgley nailed it. Yeah. We have a hat to the gentleman behind us if we got one there. Oh, he's got it. Oh, he looked it up. Well, still, that's fine. Michael Badger, the honesty. Who is. He's wearing number 32, so. Which is. I saw that. It's like. It's a. It's like, usually kickers have, like, number 32. No, no, he said that's the number he's wearing.
- [37:34]
A
Badgley.
- [37:35]
C
Yeah. Yeah.
- [37:36]
A
They're still wearing 32.
- [37:38]
C
Yeah, that's what he said.
- [37:41]
A
Seems problematic.
- [37:42]
B
Oh, my gosh, Daniel.
- [37:44]
C
It's been a while.
- [37:45]
B
It's been a while.
- [37:47]
A
Oh, there was.
- [37:47]
C
Oh, they've had other guys wear. Yeah, Yeah.
- [37:49]
B
I thought Codrington at one point.
- [37:51]
C
I'm almost positive I might have gotten that wrong. I know. I thought he said he. Worse. He's wearing 32.
- [37:56]
B
Okay, let's talk about.
- [37:57]
C
Anyhow, he's kicking Sunday and we just commented.
- [37:59]
A
Why is Badgley 32? So apparently he's 32.
- [38:03]
C
Yeah.
- [38:03]
B
Let's talk about Sunday. Dan, is this a. Is this a trap game against the Browns?
- [38:12]
C
See, you ask him a question first, once he's the wrong thing and then the second time.
- [38:16]
A
No, I don't. I don't think it's a trap game.
- [38:18]
C
Oh, okay.
- [38:19]
A
Because trap. What's my take? Do trap games not exist?
- [38:23]
B
You say trap games don't exist. I was trying to lull him into taking the bait that it was.
- [38:27]
A
Yeah, I can't remember. I knew you were trying to get me.
- [38:29]
B
There's literally letdown spots, but there's not.
- [38:31]
A
Yes, there's letdown spots. What you say, but the Bills have been actually, they're one of the few teams this year that after having a comeback win in the fourth quarter, most teams, they have that letdown spot.
- [38:41]
C
The Bills are a rare spot where.
- [38:43]
A
They'Re 5, 0 actually after fourth quarter comes.
- [38:45]
C
So. But this would. If for the definition of a trap game, this would fit. They're playing the Patriots and then they play the Eagles after that. This is the Browns 3 and 11.
- [38:56]
A
It would be more of a letdown spot.
- [38:58]
B
No, this would be a trap.
- [38:59]
A
No, the trap game doesn't exist.
- [39:00]
B
That's crazy. This would be a trap game.
- [39:02]
C
This would be a trap game.
- [39:03]
B
You played the Patriots, you coming off Eagles the next week and you have the Eagles. So there's a trap in between two big games. Yeah, yeah, a letdown spot.
- [39:12]
A
It.
- [39:12]
B
It doesn't set up after a big.
- [39:13]
A
Game, which was a big game.
- [39:16]
C
So it can be both.
- [39:17]
A
A lifetime's a big game because they.
- [39:19]
C
Won the super bowl last year.
- [39:20]
A
Yeah, it's a non conference game.
- [39:23]
C
They need wins.
- [39:24]
A
I'm aware of that. They need wins against the Browns.
- [39:26]
C
Well, then they better not fall for the trap.
- [39:32]
B
Everyone to know this is the car ride going anywhere. You might think it's for the podcast.
- [39:37]
C
And by the way, I wanted your thought on this. The three of us ride in a car. Who do you think they make sit in the back seat?
- [39:43]
A
Yeah, exactly.
- [39:44]
C
The old man's gotta sit in the back. I let the kids driving Mr. Daisy. Unless it's just Jenna and me because Ms. Jenna doesn't drive the car. I don't drive. She's the passenger princess.
- [39:56]
B
Passenger princess. That's okay.
- [39:57]
C
She rides along.
- [39:58]
B
Okay, so it's not a trap game. According.
- [40:00]
C
Yeah, it is. It's a trap game.
- [40:01]
B
Okay, I agree.
- [40:03]
C
Yeah. Because we're right.
- [40:04]
A
David Frazier. Dan was right. The Browns have zero chance of winning this game on Sunday. I don't think I said that, but he's right. I will say that.
- [40:11]
C
Well, they do have a chance to win this game. They have a very good defense.
- [40:15]
B
They do.
- [40:16]
A
I. I think this is one of those cases where this is a really good defense, especially early on in the season. I think this is a little bit of time where the defense is worn out. I mean, they've been there, they've been carrying the load of this team, and you're starting to just start to see the cracks of, we've had enough. They gave up 100, like, 60 rushing yards to Tony Pollard and the Titans two weeks ago. Yeah, they're. They're leaking oil towards the finish line from trying to carry such an inept offense through a season.
- [40:47]
B
That's. I mean, that's fair. And Miles Garrett is fantastic.
- [40:50]
C
He's incredible.
- [40:51]
B
Sure, you all know, but he's one and a half sacks away from sending the NFL sacks record for most in a single season. That would be 23. I mean, he is. He is remarkable.
- [41:01]
C
He's an incredible player. We talked about. He's one of those universally respected players. So how good he is. We joke that sometimes when we ask the players about another guy, you know, say a wide receiver and their defensive back, they always just sort of go, yeah, he's good. He's good player. They don't say much. They couldn't stop talking about Myles Garrett.
- [41:20]
B
He's the fastest. He's the biggest. He's the strongest future hall of Famer. He's special. Like the phrase.
- [41:26]
A
But I don't want to be on this.
- [41:27]
C
Well, that was just saying that. So, you know, if he sets the record, which would be one and a half sacks, so. So let's just say he gets, you know, whatever it is, the players are aware of it. Like, Spencer Brown was hilarious.
- [41:40]
A
I thought it was perfectly said about the fact of, he may set the record, but if we get the win, that's all that matters. But eventually I'll be able to tell my kids I'm the guy getting pancakes. I think that's the perfect way because.
- [41:55]
C
A lot of times, you know, when the sack happens, the lineman is sort of like looking back at the quarterback and then rushes over to help him up. But the other guy, I'm sorry, on top of him. So if he gets the one and a half, if it happens, so be it. I. I think he gets one in the game.
- [42:13]
A
I think he gets.
- [42:14]
B
I think he gets more. I think he gets two.
- [42:16]
C
You think he gets?
- [42:17]
B
Well here, Hear me out.
- [42:18]
C
And Dion, the Bills are winning by.
- [42:20]
B
So much that the record comes against Mitch Strabisky.
- [42:23]
C
Hey, man.
- [42:24]
A
Well, so you all say like it happens against like Alec Anderson and Ryan Vandermark.
- [42:29]
C
If they were to take everybody out of the game.
- [42:31]
B
Yes, yes.
- [42:32]
C
Now that would be something. Now Dion daughter practice again today. He has an illness. We don't know specifically how sick he is. Hopefully you seem. If you see him even practicing on a limited basis tomorrow, that would be very encouraging for Sunday. If not, they may just sit him out on Sunday.
- [42:51]
B
Yeah. We'll have to wait and see how things progress. But you bring up a point about like how do they. How do they attack Miles Gary? Like how do they prepare? You got a chip. But I did like what Spencer Brown said when we asked him about essentially what you need to do. And he mentioned just like you're one guy, you got to just stay within yourself.
- [43:11]
C
You got to hope somebody helps you. Yeah.
- [43:14]
B
Too.
- [43:14]
C
I mean Sean said sometimes they put a second and third guy on him and you watch him on the tape.
- [43:19]
B
He.
- [43:19]
C
He gets through that.
- [43:20]
B
Yeah. How involved do you think Jackson Halls will be with the chipping?
- [43:23]
C
I would use him all the time.
- [43:25]
A
I still think that's an unbelievably difficult task to put on a roll.
- [43:31]
C
You're not.
- [43:31]
B
That's fair.
- [43:32]
C
He is the secondary blocker on the guy. I think he. Because he is such a physical player and in the body of a tight end where he's a little. I think he can help out alignment. I think double teams alignment takes a little more coordination.
- [43:47]
A
Correct. That. That's my thought. Because he can run stunts, which is where he starts outside and then can come inside over the middle. Pretty much over. Like Conor McGovern.
- [43:55]
C
Like. Right.
- [43:56]
A
That's hard to double team that. It is because you have five guys standing in front of your way. So it is. That's why they always talk about the defensive line. It's. You're a one man band. Like you're a solo artist getting to the quarterback. The offensive line has to be like an orchestra. Like you have to all be able to communicate and work together.
- [44:16]
B
God.
- [44:16]
C
Who told you that? Because that's really good.
- [44:18]
B
That was really good.
- [44:19]
A
Who told me that? Jaron Jones.
- [44:22]
C
Oh, former Rochester guy.
- [44:25]
A
Notre Dame played and he was a defensive lineman at Notre Dame and then changed got. When he went to the NFL he became an offensive tackle and he said like just the difference of you think, okay, like, Dion Dawkins can't think. I'm just blocking Miles Garrett because if he cuts inside, he has to pass that assignment off to, you know, the guys alongside of him. So that's. That's different.
- [44:45]
C
I just thinking how much stuff is floating around in that head right there. That was good.
- [44:50]
B
Good fool with that, though.
- [44:51]
C
It is the case.
- [44:52]
B
No, but that is an excellent point because you're right.
- [44:54]
A
I held on to that because I was like one day on Buffalo. Plus, I'm gonna.
- [44:58]
C
I'm gonna use that.
- [44:59]
B
Well, I'm glad. I'm glad you asked who that was because Dan was not gonna credit whoever it was for using that line, us after the back. But I do think that's an important point because I do think the understanding is, oh, okay. You forget that for the offensive line, it is so much about being within one another, like making sure. Knowing the other assignments, like just the cohesiveness that it takes to be successful.
- [45:23]
C
And we forget, not forget. We take a little bit. Take for granted how good this offensive line has been. And even when they've needed the backups. So when we talk about how good this offense is and they still score points, it really. Obviously it starts with Josh Allen and James Cook's really good. But the offensive line plays a key role. Josh has been sacked more this year, almost triple what it was last year. I mean, last year was, you know, they've had a couple of really rough games like the Houston game.
- [45:51]
B
Houston was very bad, but they are such a. Brown was playing one armed.
- [45:54]
C
Yeah, they are still a very good offensive line that you can hang your hat on mostly week to week. That's why that Houston game stood out so much, because they were so bad.
- [46:04]
A
But Johnny Odd says you run right at Miles. Well, that is, that is a way to neutralize his pass rush.
- [46:10]
C
And he's also good against the run too, but. Yeah, you'll take that. Yeah.
- [46:14]
A
Josh Martin says, this is Dan's autogram 6 touchdown game. Just using big words left and right, I can't spell.
- [46:21]
B
What do you make of Shadur Sanders, Browns quarterback? They. They obviously drafted two young guys.
- [46:27]
C
Yeah.
- [46:27]
B
What do you. What do you think?
- [46:28]
C
So if I looked at him, not as Dion's son, not with the controversy, just as a fifth round pick, you'd be like, hey, maybe they got something here and they may have something there. All of us would say, man, when it comes to quarterbacks in the Cleveland Browns, you got to just respect what they do. I mean, has anybody made more of a mess of that position than the Browns. I mean, seriously. DeSean Watson, a disaster. Worst contract in the history of the NFL. Baker Mayfield, who they dumped, who has become one of the top six, seven, quarter, six, seven. Hey, look, I did that. I didn't mean to. Look at that. Grandpa did it. See, he knows.
- [47:08]
A
He got so excited he almost spilled his water.
- [47:12]
B
That's hilarious.
- [47:13]
C
Quarterbacks in the league, they let him go. They draft two quarterbacks this time. They don't know if either one of them can play. And then Shador has been okay. Like he won his first game. He had three interceptions last week. Two of them were his fault. One was Jerry Judy gave it away. So if you just judge him on a fifth round pick and who he is, if I was the Browns, I'd be encouraged about him. Maybe for the future. Maybe as a backup, maybe as a future starter. As far as Sunday goes, this is the type of quarterback, a young guy without a lot of experience, that McDermott's defenses have eaten up in the past. So that gives me a lot of confidence in the secondary has played well. They haven't run the ball well. Their offensive line has not been good. That hasn't helped Sanders. They don't have great weapons and he's a young player. If they can stop them from running, I think the Bills defense will have a very good day against Sanders. If they can stop the Browns from running the football.
- [48:10]
B
Yeah. Let's get into our picks because we're, we're, we're nearing things winding down. Daniel, you are in last place, but you're finally.500 on the season on your predictions. Look at him go, folks.
- [48:21]
A
Did there was a time in the Bengals game, I think after Gasecki scored where I was like, I'm going to lose another stupid game on these picks. I think this is one of those don't think, just throw kind of games where the Bills are a better team. We talked to John Doss. There's a video up. He's a sports director out in Cleveland. He said that these two teams are in different stratospheres. He even said that he thought the Bills or that the Brown stadium would be 60% Bills fans. Wow. I just think the Bills are better. I think that this is not close. Even though the score may be low 26 to 10. I think this game is for the last few weeks of what white knuckling watching those games. I think this one is a comfortable start to finish and that may be with the Browns scoring on the opening drive. Everybody tweeting Fire McDermott and then the Bills outscoring them 26 to 3 the rest of the way.
- [49:16]
B
Do you think Garrett sets the record?
- [49:18]
A
No, I do not.
- [49:19]
B
Okay. All right, I'm gonna go next. I also have the Bills winning this game.
- [49:23]
C
Don't you announce that you're in first place.
- [49:24]
B
I am in first place in our picks. Thank you. Thank you.
- [49:28]
A
Pandering.
- [49:29]
C
Applause.
- [49:29]
B
Pandering. Mike was the one that set it up. But, yeah, if I do win this year and I won last year. Last year was pilates that I made them do, and it was.
- [49:39]
C
It was torture.
- [49:40]
B
It was amazing. If you haven't watched the video, I highly recommend. Don't watch it if you're feeling down.
- [49:45]
A
I. I think I took it down. I think I took it down.
- [49:48]
C
Did you see Josh during the game when he was on the sidelines and he threw up? That was Dan and me.
- [49:54]
B
It was worth everything. So that was last year. This year, if I win, I will make the guys have to do reading mean tweets while doing the hot ones edition of eating very spicy chicken wings.
- [50:09]
A
So you enjoy saying you what the punishment's going to be like every single.
- [50:14]
C
Because she wins.
- [50:15]
B
Because I win. Hey, who's. Who's in the lead for Bill's wide receivers?
- [50:22]
A
Who's Shakir?
- [50:22]
B
Yeah. And who picked Shakir?
- [50:24]
C
Oh, you took him again.
- [50:25]
A
I took minus 8,000.
- [50:27]
B
Whatever. It's still first. Who would you pick?
- [50:30]
C
We didn't have a bet on that. Oh, my gosh.
- [50:33]
A
I'm still trying to unload that stock.
- [50:35]
C
I have Andre Reed is who I picked this year.
- [50:38]
A
Hey, MVS scored a touchdown this week.
- [50:40]
C
I know you don't get credit for that.
- [50:42]
B
Oh, my God.
- [50:43]
A
Mentions. I saw.
- [50:44]
C
All right, what's your pick, Jim?
- [50:45]
B
All right, for Sunday, I have the Bills winning 23, 27, 13. I think that the Bills are the better team. I think they will show that on Sunday. I think they'll get off to a faster start. I can see James Cook running the ball well. And I think for the Bills defense, they can really get after a young quarterback in Shadur Sanders. So I have the Bills winning that game, moving to 11 and 4 on the season. And yeah, I just think that this will be. If the Bills take care of business, which they should. It should be a day that the team gets to get. Get the win and move on.
- [51:14]
C
Yeah. This is a game. I think if they need to be efficient, they don't turn the ball over. They win the game. That. That's Cleveland's chance. In this one. I began a game behind Jenna in the standings, which I've been behind her, I have the exact same score as her this week. 27:13.
- [51:30]
B
You've learned.
- [51:31]
C
If somehow I could pass Jenna in the standings, my punishment for the two of them is to have these two to sing karaoke in front of an audience with a song that I would choose for them.
- [51:45]
B
No one wants that.
- [51:47]
C
Yes. But it's going to be. It's going to be tough to catch up. I think since Jenna won last year, if I even tie her, I should win, because that's. There we go, Tammy.
- [51:57]
A
Yeah.
- [51:58]
C
Yeah. Come on. Yes. Yeah.
- [51:59]
B
Thank you, Nancy. Thank you. Okay. All right.
- [52:02]
C
Well, yes.
- [52:03]
B
We know who our enemies are now.
- [52:04]
C
All right.
- [52:05]
B
All right. Let's do our Picasso's play. Player of the game. Player of the game, who we expect to have Picassos. If you need pizza, they are your favorite pizza. My favorite pizza go to Picasso. They got you covered. All right. Player of the week. And pair it with a white claw. The black cherry is really hidden.
- [52:22]
A
That Peach was good. Big fan of Peach. We talked about this earlier when we were driving up. I. I think my player of the game, Spencer Brown, so. So like Spencer Brown, for as bad as Josh Allen got beat up in that Houston game, that guy played with one arm. Trying to go out there and do that. If I. I really do think Spencer Brown is going to be on his way up to being one of the better right tackles in the NFL. You get to that status by. By playing well against the best players. He's going to have a. His hands full against Miles Garrett wherever he lines up. But I think this is another one of those opportunities where the Houston game didn't go like he wanted it to. So I look at that and him taking on that responsibility, I think his shoulder is closer to 100%. It's better than what it was in that Houston game. When he's trying to block with one arm, I think he has a stronger performance than what we saw against the Texans.
- [53:14]
C
All right.
- [53:15]
B
My Picasso's player of the game. I picked one earlier, but I'm going to pick someone different. I think Cole Bishop. I think Cole Bishop has had a phenomenal season. From where he started to where he's at at this year has literally been night and day. Credit to him for being able to evolve his game and really take a step up. But I think for him, I think Shador Sanders, being a Rookie quarterback, Sean McDermott, Bobby Babich will just have him confused, running around, throwing the ball. I say Cole Bishop, pick six. Predicting it.
- [53:42]
C
Wow.
- [53:42]
B
Yeah. Pick six. Action. We'll see. Hey, I was right last week. I said Dawson, Knox, anytime. Touchdown. Should have doubled down a dish to.
- [53:51]
A
There's a comment, but I don't know if I should wait till after Mike does yours.
- [53:54]
C
All right, so I'm going to make my Picasso's player of the week. So the Bush, they're not paying attention.
- [54:00]
B
Sorry. You said, I'm going to do my Picasso's player of the week, so. And then I. Oh, that's good.
- [54:07]
C
Picasso's player of the week. In a game where the greatest pass rusher in the NFL is competing against the Bills, my Picasso's player of the game is my guy, Greg Russo. Strip sack in the game. Bills get the ball. Greg Russo makes a big play putting up numbers. Coming off a one sack game. He's going to get another one this week. He is putting up the numbers.
- [54:30]
B
I think last time we. We were here, you picked Craig Rousseau in the.
- [54:34]
C
He's been steady.
- [54:35]
A
Picked him like 13 out of the 15.
- [54:38]
C
I always say if Greg Russo. If Greg. Is Greg here tonight? No, he's not yet. If he only knew how much.
- [54:43]
B
Gregory Rousseau should get your autograph.
- [54:47]
C
We talk about him a lot.
- [54:48]
B
Yeah.
- [54:49]
C
And I'm pulling for him. This could be the game everybody's talking about. Miles Garrett. Flip the script.
- [54:55]
A
Yeah. It's like. So they're like this and this.
- [54:58]
C
Hey, that. That sack record for the year is still out there for him. So they got to get 20 for the. Over the next three games. Now he's getting one big strip sack out of Shador.
- [55:08]
A
But you said he had a sack last week. And I was like, no, he didn't. You were like, yes, he did.
- [55:13]
C
I forgot that he ran out of bounds. He chased him out of bounds for.
- [55:18]
B
A loss of two.
- [55:19]
C
Yes. It was a good play.
- [55:21]
B
What was the question?
- [55:23]
A
Alex Bush, friend of the channel, saying actual question, do we want to root for the Patriots or the Ravens this week?
- [55:28]
B
Oh, shout out, Alex.
- [55:31]
A
That's a great question.
- [55:33]
C
So I will say this. If the Patriots lose. Lose.
- [55:37]
A
It doesn't really matter.
- [55:38]
C
It matters only if the Bills were to lose to the Eagles next week because the division would still be in play. If. If the Patriots lose this game. If the Bills were to lose to the Eagles, a Patriots loss to the Dolphins or the jets and the Bills win against the jets would still give the Bills the division, but because they would only be a game behind them.
- [56:03]
B
To be very clear, the Patriots still need to lose against either the jets or the Dolphins for the Bills to win the Division because the Patriots still need another divisional loss.
- [56:14]
C
But if the Patriots were to win Sunday and the Bills were to even win but lose to the Eagles, then it's over before you get to the last week. That's the only difference. It's just the idea of you can't be two games behind with one to go. That would be the difference. But if they lose, it gives the Bills that little bit of leeway in that game. If they were to lose, to just win and hope that. Hope the Patriots lose. But you kind of want the Ravens.
- [56:40]
A
It feels like a no lose situation. Like, yeah, you got a way you're going to enjoy one of the results.
- [56:48]
C
Well, you really kind of want the Ravens.
- [56:50]
A
Does that make sense?
- [56:51]
B
Yeah, I'm scared.
- [56:51]
C
Like you want the Ravens out? I think because their. Their spot might very well just be the bill spot. Like they would be going to Baltimore in the first round of I don't.
- [57:01]
A
Want to go to Baltimore. That game would be played at night. The Ravens would wear their all black uniforms and the Bills would have no chance.
- [57:06]
B
Yeah, I agree.
- [57:08]
C
Wait a minute. So if it happens, then we can say Dan said they have no chance.
- [57:13]
A
Cuz then I'll find my way out of it. I'll. I'll wiggle my way out of it.
- [57:16]
B
You always do. But yeah.
- [57:18]
C
All right.
- [57:18]
B
You want to do our credit to me.
- [57:20]
C
Who wants to go first?
- [57:21]
A
Michael. You have the best one.
- [57:23]
B
So shouldn't he go last?
- [57:25]
A
You want to go last?
- [57:25]
C
Then I'll do whatever you want to do. I'll just go first. Last week I mentioned that my daughter was very pregnant. My daughter had a baby girl. On Monday, Jenna and I were driving back from Foxborough. She was following all what was going on. We made it to Albany, we stayed there. I took the train the next morning, went to New York where she is grandpop was able to be there to see my little third granddaughter. I know I look way too young for that, but yeah, third granddaughter and healthy happy back at home tonight. So yeah, building them up. 3 Now 3 it is real moment.
- [58:09]
B
Like seeing Mike so excited. Sending the updates was very precious. You literally did a 24 hour not even trip down to New York to get the baby and come back.
- [58:18]
C
Yeah, it was planes, trains and automobiles but I got there so.
- [58:21]
B
But the. A great grandpop would do that.
- [58:23]
A
And that's probably the best credit to me we've had.
- [58:26]
C
Oh well, you've had kids too. You keep having them.
- [58:32]
A
All set? All set. Do you want me to do mine?
- [58:36]
B
Yeah, sure.
- [58:36]
A
I think the credit to me is just like the holiday season season. And maybe I didn't care as much at times when before kids and I know a lot of people like when we sit here and talk. One of the things people always say is I love when you talk about your kids. So that's kind of become a lot.
- [58:52]
B
No, there's a kid here. So.
- [58:54]
A
Yeah.
- [58:54]
B
Okay.
- [58:54]
A
I'm just very into the holiday season. Good catch.
- [58:58]
C
Yeah.
- [58:58]
A
Now that I'm thinking about it, Jenna, phenomenal catch.
- [59:00]
B
Just wanted to, you know, it is.
- [59:02]
A
Awesome the holiday season with kids. See my 5 year old and 2 year old, they understand it more than the 1 year old. She's just crawling around. But to see them, the excitement every morning to find the elf, to be excited about seeing Santa, all of that stuff, it has been more fun, I think I've ever had Christmas than when I was a kid. Like to understand this joy. Sweet to, you know, the presents and all that stuff. I know that's what they care about. There are much bigger and more important things.
- [59:31]
C
Things.
- [59:31]
A
But to see the joy and all of that stuff, it is.
- [59:34]
C
That's great.
- [59:35]
A
Credit to the holiday season because for those, my three girls, it is everything.
- [59:40]
C
Santa's going to load up your house this year.
- [59:42]
B
Yeah.
- [59:42]
A
Yes.
- [59:43]
B
Yeah. No, it's very true. It's just a fun time of year.
- [59:46]
A
Twice.
- [59:47]
B
Yeah. It's crazy.
- [59:48]
A
They're like, I can't.
- [59:49]
B
What do you leave out for Santa?
- [59:50]
A
Milk and cookies.
- [59:51]
B
What cookies. I might stop by.
- [59:54]
A
Oh, and we do. We do reindeer fe.
- [59:59]
C
Sugar. Oh, do you put dust?
- [60:01]
A
Dust, yes. Reindeer dust. Our elf brings it.
- [60:04]
B
Yes.
- [60:04]
A
So we put it on our front porch so that Santa knows where to.
- [60:07]
C
Awesome.
- [60:08]
B
Yeah.
- [60:08]
A
So very excited. Great call. Now I understand why you pointed that out.
- [60:12]
B
Trying to.
- [60:13]
A
There are holiday kids in the room. Phenomenal job by Jenna Swivel. Unbelievable.
- [60:19]
B
Santa is. We love it. All right. My credit to me is. Credit to you all. This is our final, you know, Buffalo plus live of this year. We want to cry. Well, I'm saying this year.
- [60:30]
C
Right?
- [60:31]
B
Okay.
- [60:31]
C
So Emily, you want to do one this season?
- [60:33]
B
Well, no, I just think it's really cool. There's a lot of people that came back, which is wonderful. And like I just want to thank everyone. I also want to give a shout out to Bob and Nancy coming here. The very, very sweet. It's Nancy's birthday. So wonderful. Also LJ's. I know it's LJ's birthday as well, but I just want to say thank you all for coming out. It really does mean so much to Us.
- [60:55]
A
I think Tammy and Greg have been to everything.
- [60:57]
C
Yeah.
- [60:58]
A
Have you been to everyone?
- [60:59]
C
The OGs close.
- [61:01]
A
Yeah.
- [61:01]
B
All right.
- [61:03]
A
All the nice things I said about you.
- [61:04]
B
Yes, exactly. But no, we want to thank everyone. Like, it's been really awesome and so much fun. Shout out Patricia and Lisa. It means a lot. So thank you so much.
- [61:13]
A
Thank you.
- [61:13]
B
Give yourselves a round of applause. It really is awesome and we genuinely appreciate it. Shout out.
- [61:18]
A
Well, put on by riverworks and White Claw and everything like that. The gifts, the prizes, all of that stuff. We're gonna raffle those off.
- [61:26]
B
Yeah, we're gonna do that afterwards after we wrap up. But we just want to say thank you once again. Anything else, Cat?
- [61:31]
C
No, I don't think so. I think this has been a great night and we look forward to Sunday.
- [61:36]
A
You and I will be on the other side of Lake Erie with coverage.
- [61:38]
C
Yeah, we'll be down in Cleveland for that one. And then the Bills are home for what could be the last two games in Orchard Park. We will see. Maybe we get some playoff action at home. We'll be there. And we'll let you know if we have another appearance for the playoffs when the Bills get started.
- [61:52]
B
All right, so gives yourself. Give yourselves another round of applause. Shout out, White Claw. Shout out riverworks. Thank you so much for joining us here. Please be sure to, like, comment, subscribe and share. For grandpop and Dan, I'm Jenna Cottrell. We'll catch you next time here on Buffalo Plus.
- [62:08]
A
You say jenna Picasso.
- [62:09]
B
No, I thought you said Picasso.
- [62:20]
A
This is the Buffalo plus podcast.