Mike Catalana (2:22)

Listen, we're doing well. We're not the center of the NFL universe, Dan. Is that what you're saying?

Dan Fates (2:27)

No, the combat.

Mike Catalana (2:28)

I thought you meant Buffalo plus was the center of the NFL universe One day.

Jenna Cottrell (2:36)

To the moon.

Mike Catalana (2:37)

To the moon.

Dan Fates (2:37)

Speaking of goals, we have goals. Mike and I were talking 50k by August.

Mike Catalana (2:42)

That's the goal. By training camp.

Dan Fates (2:45)

So we need to get by the start of next season. We want to be at 50,000 subscribers. So be sure to, like, comment, subscribe, tell friends, share it along the way. We really appreciate it. Again, it's. It's cool to read the comments, especially when one of the comments makes fun of not me. It makes fun of Brian Baldinger over here.

Mike Catalana (3:06)

So if you don't know Brian Baldinger, the former NFL player has mangled hands. It's ridiculous. Like, he was an offensive lineman. His hands are all over the place. I have this, and people were commenting.

Jenna Cottrell (3:19)

Sports journalist.

Mike Catalana (3:21)

So I'm going to put some blame out there. Do you guys remember who's to blame for this?

Dan Fates (3:26)

This Tony McMurtry.

Mike Catalana (3:27)

No.

Jenna Cottrell (3:28)

No. Benny Blunt.

Mike Catalana (3:30)

Benny Blunt.

Jenna Cottrell (3:31)

Do I know you or do I know you?

Mike Catalana (3:33)

It is Benny Blunt. So Benny, back in New Jersey, we played high school basketball together. He doesn't probably even remember this. Benny was a big, tough dude. And I was wearing my high school ring, which I lost at a casino, and we shook hands or did something, and he squeezed my hand, and my finger just. It broke my finger. And it's been that way for, well, let's just say a lot of years. So sometimes when I put my hand up like a good Italian, people see that pinky and they're like, what is that?

Dan Fates (4:09)

I've kind of become numb to it. I don't know about you, Jenna, because. But for the longest time when we first started working, it's like, huh, what

Mike Catalana (4:14)

is wrong with him?

Dan Fates (4:15)

It's jarring.

Jenna Cottrell (4:17)

It is a little. Well, it's like. It's at like a right angle almost.

Mike Catalana (4:21)

Yes, there it goes.

Jenna Cottrell (4:22)

It's. Yeah, No, I don't like that.

Dan Fates (4:26)

Yeah.

Jenna Cottrell (4:27)

All right.

Mike Catalana (4:27)

I'm hiding today.

Jenna Cottrell (4:29)

Big. Yeah. Seriously, big day out there, though. Wide receiver talk. You got to talk to some of the prospects as well. General overall impression from this afternoon in Indy.

Mike Catalana (4:40)

I like talking to the wide receivers. I will say this. They are a confident group. I mentioned it yesterday. No one is more confident than the safety group.

Dan Fates (4:49)

Yes.

Mike Catalana (4:49)

It's wild to hear those guys. I mean, they're comparing themselves to hall of Famers, and I think the wide receiver group addressed at least most of the guys. I was bouncing around to a lot of the different interviews. They're very conscious of their shortcomings. As good as these guys are, and they're all very talented, but they talk about all the things they need to work on and. But they have confidence, too. And I think there's a lot of talent. I don't think it's perceived that this is top. Top end like we've seen in other years. You never know. I don't think people thought JSN was going to be that guy or Puka. Right. Yes. When they got him in the fifth round, I mean, Justin Jefferson went, what, 19th or whatever it was that year. So sometimes that's a perception, but I think it is a. There's a depth of talent in this wide receiver group.

Dan Fates (5:37)

Yeah. And this is kind of the main reason we wanted to come here and wanted to stay as long as we usually do was because not only for the 17 beers like Diana Rossini talked about. Make sure to go check out that podcast that was up yesterday. We also wanted to talk to the one on ones with Brady and Bean. But this was kind of what we really wanted to. Because, Mike, it's always about the Bills wide receivers.

Mike Catalana (5:59)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (5:59)

And so to. To actually be here and talk to the players was. I do think it shed some light and to your point, getting to hear them talk about their shortcomings. So the first player we wanted to address was Casey Concepcion, who is the Texas Tech, Texas A and M wide receiver, speedster, separator, mock to the Bills

Mike Catalana (6:19)

in a lot of drafts.

Dan Fates (6:20)

A lot of drafts have him. And he has Western New York ties.

Mike Catalana (6:24)

He does. He was born in Rochester, lived there, I think he said until five.

Dan Fates (6:29)

He said till five.

Mike Catalana (6:30)

Yeah. And then they moved down south. I think Charlotte it was. His dad's a big Bills fan. He's a young man that has a speech impediment. He stutters. He's addressed it. He said his dad had the same issue. I gave him credit. He was up at the podium today. Not an easy thing for any player just to, you know, get questions from people. Most of them he doesn't know. But he's a dynamic football player.

Dan Fates (6:55)

When we keep always talking, Jenna and I don't know what about you. And I know we've talked about wide receivers. We will continue to talk about wide receivers here on Buffalo Plus. But there is the thought of they need this type of guy or this type of guy, and then it boils down to they need guys that can separate and get open. And to me, that is where Concepcion is. An intriguing prospect for the Bills Yeah,

Jenna Cottrell (7:19)

I think it is. It comes down to separation, in my opinion, as well. Now, I think it is good to have different types of body types, different types of skill sets, because I do feel like, for the most part, the Bills kind of have a, A prototypical guy that is. Well, I mean, we know.

Mike Catalana (7:36)

Not good enough.

Jenna Cottrell (7:37)

Yeah, I was gonna say we know. Keon Coleman. Like. Yes. I just think for this team, you want someone that can separate. I think one of the things. Casey Concepcion is not the tallest guy. And I think that's why some people might be like, oh, we need a big body guy like this. We need, we need someone that has that size. But I think what we've seen is that the Bills need someone that can have that separation and win off the line. And so for me, I, I, I look at it as. That's the number one thing I want to see. Like, can you catch the ball and can you separate? Because I think while it is nice to have someone that can make really good contested catches, that is an important part if you are able to separate the college level. And we know how much better the athletes are in the NFL. Like, I think that just bodes better for your projection when you take that next step up to. These are all pros. Everyone is really good. So I thought conceptual, no, really interesting. Like doing the draft prep, I'm like, oh, my gosh. This guy was born in Rochester. And I know he lived most of his life in Charlotte, but I did think that was a kind of a cool tie. And to hear that his dad is a Bills fan, like, I thought that was really unique and interesting. And he just seems like a player that has shown in the past, in college, that he is able to create that space, which is huge at the next level.

Dan Fates (8:49)

Yeah, that's something that that translates. Also, what stood out to me was when he was talking about, like, what our team's getting you, he says he can do it all running. He even said throwing, because he was a quarterback kind of growing up. It's the fact of he started as a freshman. Like, has played pretty much every single game. Like, the durability is there. I think he said he played over 37 games and things like that. That, to me, is encouraging because it was Bill Parcells that had, like, the diagram for quarterbacks, right. Like, they had to start a certain number of games. So you had Concepion who's sitting here saying, I've seen a lot. I've done it a lot. It's not just one year where I got my Playing time and succeeded. He did it as a freshman, he did it as a sophomore, transferred all those kind of things to me, make it more. The larger the sample size is, the more comfortable you kind of feel with knowing what you got.

Mike Catalana (9:40)

Yeah, and we know the strengths that he has, and that's what we talked about it, but he knows what his weakness is. And if you look up anything about him, you're going to hear about this. And today at the podium and he addressed the things he needs to work on, including the one. A lot of you will hear about

Casey Concepcion (9:56)

something that they said that. Something that, that the NFL teams feel like I can improve on is my, my concentration. You know, this year, you know, I had, you know, seven drops. You know, it's something, you know, that. It's something, you know, that, you know, I have to work on. You know, I'm gonna, you know, work every day, you know, to fix it, you know, and once I get that chance, you know, you know, I'm gonna catch every ball.

Mike Catalana (10:26)

So you say he's gonna catch them all.

Dan Fates (10:28)

Now, that would be great.

Mike Catalana (10:29)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (10:30)

But seven drops last season is, is a concern. And again, as you heard in the soundbite, like, credit to him for getting up there with the speech impediment. You know, that's something he's addressed and he's kind of talked about how he's trying to feel more comfortable, he's taking speech classes, all of those kind of things going into it. He formally met with the. In Indianapolis, as well as what seems like everybody has met with the Bills.

Mike Catalana (10:53)

You encouraged by that, Jenna? All these wide receivers meeting with the Bills?

Jenna Cottrell (10:57)

Yeah, because I think that they need to meet with the Bills. Because the Bills need to meet with them. Because the Bills need to figure out what they're doing in terms of is it going to be drafting multiple guys, Is it going to be free agency and then drafting. Is it. I. We've talked so much about how I want it to be a multiples approach. Look, the, the drop thing is a, That's a real concern. Like, we all know that because that is job number one of a wide receiver. I do think where the Bills are at when they're. If they were to stay at 26, there's kind of like those three guys that are top tier and then everyone else underneath that. There's going to be weaknesses with every player that is just the name of, of the NFL and how it's. It is so good at, you know, exposing what you're not good at. But, but the drop sync to me is definitely concerned because we've seen. We've seen how. How much. How sometimes how challenging it is to get the ball to a wide receiver and to have focus drops. That's something that does stand out.

Mike Catalana (11:54)

Jenna, I have to tell you, Dan has a formal crush on a wide receiver this year.

Jenna Cottrell (12:01)

I already know it's. I already know it's Denzel Boston.

Dan Fates (12:03)

I already know it's another guy from Washington. I have a type of. I have a time. Washington wide receivers. Yeah, he's a guy. Here's a guy that doesn't drop anything. In four years. He has five drops. He was so like. You talk about the confidence. He. You know that that's exuded confidence. That was the word I was looking for. Tons of confidence today at the moment.

Mike Catalana (12:31)

Go ahead and try it. Exude.

Jenna Cottrell (12:34)

E,

Mike Catalana (12:36)

X, C. No, you.

Jenna Cottrell (12:41)

E. I'm not gonna lie. Exude. That's kind of. That's a tough one. How do you spell it?

Denzel Boston (12:47)

No, I got it.

Mike Catalana (12:50)

E, X, S. Oh, no.

Dan Fates (12:53)

O, U.

Mike Catalana (12:56)

Soup. What are you saying? No. E, E, X, U, D, E. Yes.

Dan Fates (13:01)

There should be an S. X Sued. Like you sued.

Jenna Cottrell (13:05)

No, there's. You're. It's exude. Why did I sound exude?

Mike Catalana (13:10)

Why didn't I even go down that road?

Dan Fates (13:12)

What are you talking about? There's no S sound. You just said exude. No, you just put the sue in it.

Jenna Cottrell (13:16)

Exude. You're saying exude. It's exude.

Dan Fates (13:20)

So there should be a Z in it.

Mike Catalana (13:22)

It's an X. X.

Jenna Cottrell (13:24)

Because ex.

Dan Fates (13:25)

Is he throwing a niner in there? Is there a niner?

Mike Catalana (13:27)

He exudes two.

Jenna Cottrell (13:29)

One. That's a deep cut. If you've watched Kevin James sweat the small stuffs on stand up from like, what year? Probably like 2002. Dan.

Matt Harmon (13:39)

Yep.

Dan Fates (13:40)

So I got my job in Elmira. That's how. That's how Jenna hired me.

Mike Catalana (13:43)

They bonded over that.

Dan Fates (13:44)

Shout out if you know Kevin James sweat the small stuff. Comedy Central. Stand up. You're. You're a real one.

Mike Catalana (13:51)

You're off the track.

Dan Fates (13:52)

Those same people order their stakes Medium. Medium rare. Plus, that's.

Jenna Cottrell (13:57)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (13:59)

Did he. Did anybody ask him about his father today?

Casey Concepcion (14:02)

No.

Mike Catalana (14:03)

No, because his. His father is not the former NFL player.

Dan Fates (14:09)

So you're telling me no, it is

Jenna Cottrell (14:11)

son of former first round pick David Boston.

Mike Catalana (14:14)

I think that's wrong. Oh, I think he. I think he grew up in another town. His father, I think, was a coach.

Dan Fates (14:21)

His name. But his father's name is David.

Mike Catalana (14:25)

Oh, no, no. Anyhow, we'll ask him the Next time we see him, we'll ask him.

Dan Fates (14:31)

Well, here is what he was asked about. His meeting with the Bills, his skill set, his strengths, separation, and how he thinks his game will translate to the next level.

Denzel Boston (14:41)

Great meeting with the Bills. You know, the Bills, they went over some offense and went over some offensive scheme with me and then got to learn who I was. And it was. It was a great meeting with the Bills. And, you know, I look forward to hopefully talking to them in the future. Oh, I believe I can be a great separator at the next level. You know, I have a lot of. I have creativity in my bag that, you know, I'm just waiting to be able to use. And, you know, I believe I've displayed that as well. Again, the physical and dominant traits that I have will translate directly into the league as I get there. And also having a great contested catch rate and a low drop rate, I think, you know, we're receivers, we catch the ball, and that's what we do. And I think that's something that now it's going to translate great as well. I would describe it as a giant vacuum. You know, I have very long arms and therefore I have a big catch radius. You know, you put it up there, I'm going to go get it. You put it out there, I'm also going to go get it. So, you know, I'll say a giant vacuum. Being able to catch passes from Jos Allen would definitely be special. Be able to go into the league with the. With a top quarterback in the country or in the world, I guess you could say. You know, and being able to catch passes from him would be something spectacular. You know, I think that we could definitely make something happen.

Dan Fates (15:42)

I had a crush on Boston. Just watching the film, then getting to hear him talk today just kind of reiterated my love for what he could do, a bigger body. And I know there were some people because I put out a tweet that said my. My bill's wish list. I tweeted it out and it was guys they could either sign in free agency or trade for and then draft. And really, especially at 26 or in the first round, I really only think it's Boston or Concepcion as. As the guys. Now, that would be if they move up, then maybe you're talking about Makai Lemon and guys like that. But people were saying, no, you can't draft just another big body guy. Look what happened with Keon. Boston can separate. And it's not just Jenna. A big body guy, that means he can't get Open and like you can have both. It just so happens that Keon wasn't that guy. But he talks about he's a big vacuum with his, with his catch radius, things like that. That to me, where I said Boston can be a big body guy and separate now, he also was talking a lot about how he is most comfortable on the outside. That is where he has played most of his career. He believes like everybody else that he can play anywhere on the field. But to me that's a big bonus because we'll talk about. We'll talk about it with Matt Harmon from Yahoo. Sports and reception perception podcast. But just the fact of the Bills have Shakir and Kincaid in the slot. You need some guy that is confident and comfortable in tight spaces in the outside. So it's not even that you can't get open and separate. It's are you comfortable with the sideline there and all the other traffic that goes into that position. To me, Boston stands out as a big body receiver. He talks about his love for Mike Evans and that he talks about how he was asked about his favorite five top five wide receivers in the NFL now. And he goes Mike Evans and T. Higgins right off the bat. Yeah, those are guys he models his games after. Those aren't guys that necessarily need to separate as much because of their catch radius and their ability of contested and contested catches.

Jenna Cottrell (17:46)

Did he say anything? Just about durability. I know he had a couple injuries.

Dan Fates (17:52)

He didn't.

Mike Catalana (17:52)

No.

Jenna Cottrell (17:53)

No. Okay. I was just curious.

Mike Catalana (17:55)

There's other guys too.

Jenna Cottrell (17:57)

Yeah. He is mocked as pukinakua type. So that's. That's some high expectations there too.

Mike Catalana (18:03)

That's nice.

Dan Fates (18:03)

Is he good?

Mike Catalana (18:05)

Puka's good.

Dan Fates (18:05)

Puka's good.

Mike Catalana (18:06)

Gotcha. Another guy to keep an eye on is Notre Dame's Malachi Fields. I think Daniel Jeremiah had him to the Bills. Another guy, taller can play the outside. Yeah.

Dan Fates (18:19)

Dominant at the Senior Bowl.

Mike Catalana (18:20)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (18:21)

Dominant performance for a lot of teams.

Mike Catalana (18:22)

Senior bowl, they want to see him there. So. Including the Bills. But I will say there's, you know, a lot of receivers in this draft. There's some guys in later rounds. If they circle back again, God forbid they draft two in a single year. That could happen. But there's also some talented players and some that have. Which you would consider upside. But there's reasons why they. They probably wouldn't. There's a guy, Ted Hurst out of Georgia State that I think is one of those players. He's got the physical tools played at a lower level that you'll See some of those names, if they circle back to it later in the draft.

Dan Fates (19:03)

And Surat was another guy that I heard today at the podium. He was, he was a guy that was at James Madison and then obviously transferred with Signetti to Indiana, big production there. He talks a lot about how Devonte Adams is his kind of. He models a lot of his releases back, shoulder throws that he did a lot with Mendoza, all those kinds of things. He's another one with, with Cooper from Indiana that people think, yeah, could be late first, early second, or possibly in the second round, day two guys, but who knows? We, we're recording this on Friday at 1 o'. Clock. They will have their on field workouts over at Lucas Oil Stadium tomorrow.

Mike Catalana (19:45)

And Dan was in on Jordan Tyson today and he's expected to go probably a little higher. I think he's a, a little bit of a polarizing candidate. Some people have him higher than others. What do you think? Listening to him, Confident.

Dan Fates (19:59)

And he's, he's able to, you know, he said his game translates to all the different levels. He's. I, I feel like he's on that top tier with Tate and, and Lemon as the top three. That if the Bills would want one of them, they would have to make a move to go up. I don't think they're still on the board at 26.

Jenna Cottrell (20:15)

Yeah, agreed. Going back to Surat. Great nickname. Waffle House. Always open.

Mike Catalana (20:21)

It's a legitimate. Always open. We were talking about. Waffle House is always open. Seven eleven, that place that was named after the place used to be, I think open at 7, closed at 11. Yeah, I think that's the way the name, I think that's the name of the building. It tells you when it closes.

Dan Fates (20:41)

And Jenna, I had to explain to Mike that Waffle House is used by like the government that like when there's a big storm coming, like a hurricane or things like that, that's the only time Waffle House closes. So that's more than ever.

Mike Catalana (20:53)

What do you mean? It's used by the government.

Matt Harmon (20:56)

Okay.

Dan Fates (20:56)

No. What so. No, no, no, no. Hear me out.

Jenna Cottrell (21:00)

You doing your own research?

Dan Fates (21:02)

Nope. Hear me out. There are.

Mike Catalana (21:03)

You know, it's on the Internet.

Dan Fates (21:05)

You know, it's a serious storm when Waffle Houses are closing.

Matt Harmon (21:10)

Oh, why did you.

Dan Fates (21:11)

Sorry.

Jenna Cottrell (21:12)

Why did you involve the government?

Dan Fates (21:16)

Yeah, it wasn't the government's like, oh, Waffle Houses are closing. This thing's gonna get serious.

Mike Catalana (21:20)

We better shut the airport. That's literally what you.

Dan Fates (21:24)

It's the other way around. That's what I meant.

Mike Catalana (21:27)

Okay. Well, anyhow,

Jenna Cottrell (21:31)

talk about your Matt Harmon interview.

Dan Fates (21:33)

It's Friday.

Mike Catalana (21:34)

He's always open. Like.

Dan Fates (21:36)

Yeah. So as we have mentioned before, our neighbor right behind us here, Yahoo Sports, Matt Harmon, does their reception perception podcast, breaks down a whole bunch of wide receivers coming out of the draft, free agents that can fit. We had talked to him now the last two years here at Indianapolis. I got to talk to him again this week and it's a really enlightening interview because we don't do a ton of X's and O's on players. That's what Matt excels at. That's what he's the best at. So it's a really interesting interview where I shop my take around about a Bill's wide receiver, how their offense is working now, what they can do with the pieces they already have to improve their passing game, and some players at the end that you'll hear from, which we've already talked about earlier in the podcast, here is Matt Harmon. All right. We are now joined by Matt Harmon from Yahoo Sports, who kindly has been letting us use his backdrop next door neighbors. That's it. Really appreciate it from the Reception Perception podcast and what else you got going on?

Matt Harmon (22:36)

Yahoo. Fantasy forecast football301 receptionperception.com you know, a lot of things going on.

Dan Fates (22:41)

A lot of things going on. Appreciate it as always. Now I want to get into where we are now and we talked two years ago about wide receivers and one of them was Keon Coleman. You were not a huge fan of the skill set.

Matt Harmon (22:53)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (22:54)

Last year we talked and you got to kind of say kind of was. Right. I told you. So where do you see it now? Do you still see some things when you look at it through the reception perception, that he still has something there that isn't tapped yet, or is it just not working out in Buffalo?

Matt Harmon (23:11)

Well, I think we got to separate the conversation with Coleman into, like, what's on the field versus what's off. Yeah, that's obviously a big part of it. Like, is he going to be a professional? Is he going to be on time? All of those sort of things that 100% need to happen. But just strictly speaking about him as a player, one of the reasons that I wasn't like 100% sold on him as a prospect is that I thought he was a guy that you would see that he's a big receiver, he wins in tight coverage. A lot of people see that and they think, oh, that guy needs to play on the perimeter for me because he's not a guy who consistently separates and beats his own beats man coverage. That was a hang up for me as a in those guys. Historically. I did a whole breakdown on this on my YouTube channel. I'm sure I've referenced it before. It's the guys that are sub 35th percentile success rate versus man and press coverage players in college there have been. There's a lot of just guys that aren't good in that bucket. The guys that have hit they've almost all moved into the slot. You know the. They've been at least somewhat of a like a 40% slot player.

Dan Fates (24:06)

Yeah.

Matt Harmon (24:06)

So I was like that's why he's a tough eval because like is the team that drafts him going to share my vision that I just outlined there? The team that drafted him did not like. I mean Brandon Bean said in the press day one, he's our ex receiver.

Dan Fates (24:18)

Minutes after he was drafted he was. He's going to be on the outside. And when you think about big body receivers, I think you automatically think of them as the X on the outside. When you have guys like Puka who has shown to be like that power slot.

Matt Harmon (24:32)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (24:32)

Is that kind of the thing that you see is that like Keon could find more success there.

Matt Harmon (24:37)

I think he brings the size like he does. It hasn't materialized as much at the NFL level to be fair, but it is kind of hard just because when you're that perimeter player it's. You're not going to get quite as many looks against zone coverage when you are that perimeter X receiver. But I still think he's shown an ability on like quicker hitting routes to settle down and things like like that. And you know that that's where you get more of those opportunities instead of just always the tight cover stuff on the outside which again with his skill set anyways you're already going to be in smaller windows as that perimeter receiver. And then for him because he's not that separator, we're getting thinner margins for. It's like look, he's a great ball. He's a ball winner. Great in theory he's a great ball winner and Josh Allen is a great deep ball passer. But again you're making life harder on both players by doing this.

Dan Fates (25:18)

So it's funny we talked about Keon because we were just joking around earlier on the Buffalo podcast that no Bills player has been talked about more this offseason than Keon Coleman.

Matt Harmon (25:27)

I know to the point I almost like feel feel bad for him a

Dan Fates (25:30)

little bit and it seems like especially here at the combine, we've seen. Yeah. Hey, the maturity stuff off the field, but they are really kind of trying to use the. The carrot to motivate him and show the love that, hey, we're not giving up on you. Joe Brady said the best thing that's ever happened for him was him becoming head coach. So we'll see.

Matt Harmon (25:47)

And I like that by Brady, by the way. Yes. You know, whether it's real or not, you know, you never know when. When you're hearing things of the NFL scouting combine, you never know if it's really. You never know if it's not. Even if it's, you know, not real.

Casey Concepcion (25:56)

And he.

Matt Harmon (25:57)

They're going to move on from him. And I 100 think they're going to hit this room and hit it hard this off season. I think they're going to add a lot of pieces. We typically see that with GMs when they get heat for something, they overcorrect on it. I think we'll probably see that this year with Brandon Bean. I think it's a good idea. But so again, even if you are moving on from Cole, just to say that that's much better than the alternative where you're throwing the guy under the bus or anything. It's like you do want to show to be a good head coach. You have to pour into your young players. Definitely tough love behind the scenes, but in front of everybody else, that's when you show them some real love.

Dan Fates (26:26)

Okay, so Keon's been kind of the question mark, the most steadying factor. And this is something. It's funny, I feel like I've been workshopping it around to people you're take shopping. Yeah. And I haven't really been sure. And then when we started talking just before we started rolling, I felt a little bit better because I wanted to talk about Khalil Shakir, because I've had this thought and I want to preface this by saying Khalil Shakir is awesome. He is the best wide receiver. He is so steady. He's been the safety blanket for Josh Allen and all of those things. But I've started to think that maybe he kind of limits the Bill's passing game because he is where everybody nowadays is so versatile and it's a positionless offense and, you know, as they kind of say, like defenses. But Shakir works primarily in the slot, which doesn't allow a guy like Keon to get reps in the slot. And Shakir is not really a guy that can go on the outside and he's not as dynamic as an Amon ra St. Brown in the slot where we're seeing even CD Lam how he's taken off in the slot and can be that big play guy. Am I onto something here, Matt, at all?

Matt Harmon (27:34)

Well, I think league wide and I. I had a lot of conversations with great wide receivers at the super bowl and like this was a consistent.

Dan Fates (27:40)

Those were awesome.

Matt Harmon (27:40)

Yeah, thank. I appreciate it. That was a consistent theme across those conversations was if you're going to be a number one in today's league, you have to play all three receiver positions. Like if you are, obviously Shakira is not this guy. But if you are a team who uses your number one wide receiver out at X receiver on 80 plus percent of their snaps, you're telling us one of two things. One might not be very good at this whole offensive coordinator thing or you're saying you don't think really very highly of that player. One of those two things essentially. So that to me is just where the league is going. Like you need to be someone you can play at X, but we also move you around the formation and we scheme you up stuff. We get you in those mismatch situations. You're lined up on linebackers in safety, you're seeing those zone coverage layups out of the slot. You have to be a smart player to do that. Yeah, there's no doubt about it. But yeah, you want your number one to be doing that. And Shakir, obviously he's a number one. He shouldn't, he shouldn't be your best receiver. That's the thing. And like that's no disrespect to Kalushk who like the receipts are out there. I loved him as a prospect. I've really liked him so far. He was a guy that I had a day two gray on grade on. He went in the fifth round. That was a great pick by Bean. And they've also just hammered him in the right role for him. I don't know if expanding the portfolio is. Is a good thing for him now. Could he develop and do it? You mentioned St. Brown. Like we've seen him get better and better every single year. Yeah, maybe this is the year he shows that ability to play more on the outside. But just from what we've seen so far. Yeah, his best home is without question as a slot receiver in the short areas especially and being a yards after catch thread.

Dan Fates (29:07)

Right. And that's where I was kind of wanted to get your perspective was like, do you see his skill set. Can he move out more to allow somebody else inside or they're using him where his fastball is, which is in the slot.

Matt Harmon (29:20)

Do you know what I'm saying? I know exactly what you mean. I think the, the way you get around this is you kind of look at the structure of your offense and where you're aligning these players. Because let's just say for. And this is something I think just hasn't happened in Buffalo. But you know, maybe there are reasons for it. But if you want to look at a guy like a Keon Coleman, for example, and Khalil Shakir for example, it's like you can put the bigger player, which is Keon Coleman, by a lot. He would be the on ball slot receiver and then Shakir is the outside receiver. But he's off the line of scrimmage and they're pretty tight. Like it condensed to each other. Yeah, they're bunched up something like that. A stack and then you can get those guys as free releases. It essentially mimics like slot receiver reps here, even though one of them is outside. And you saw this with. Obviously I don't expect Cleo Shakir to become Jackson, Smith and Jigba. But like he went from a guy that was 77.5% snaps in the slot in his second season to 17.5% in his third season. Part of that is because the opposite of kind of the conversation we're having with Shakir here is that I always saw JSN as a high, high end man, coverage beater. Like he had the skills to translate to the S to separate. However, you also saw Clint Kubiak come in there and essentially take him and condense him to close to that line of script or close to the offensive line. So you're almost like creating a slot receiver spacing for your perimeter player. Like I do think there are ways to do that, but it's just you're, you're, you know, you're doing a lot like you're doing a lot to cater to multiple players. I think what Buffalo does kind of need is somebody that just doesn't need that catering that you can stick on the outside and beat man pressure consistently. Yeah, yeah.

Dan Fates (30:53)

So that's again, that's. Want to prep like reiterate. This is not slander against Shakir or anything like that. I was just saying he's awesome.

Matt Harmon (31:01)

They should continue to play him a lot and throw him the football. Correct. I think he's a big underrated reason why Josh Allen has, has grown and evolved like 100 part. This is whenever you have like a quarterback for the long term, you're always looking at like, okay, what's phase 2.0? 3.0, 4.0. For Josh Allen, clearly, like in his developmental path, they wanted to incentivize him to take the layups. And for Shakir, he provides you so many layups because he does, yeah, he does quickly separate against zone coverage, in particular in the short areas. And then when you get him that ball, he does something with it. He makes you look better as the quarterback because you're getting those yards after catch. So, yeah, 100 a player that's critical to them.

Dan Fates (31:39)

But I was just looking at it going. You're kind of in a way limiting the variety of what you can throw at defense. You just can't because Kincaid's in the other slot that.

Matt Harmon (31:49)

Well, that's a whole nother thing too, where I think they've kind of galaxy brained this thing where it's like, we need a, we need a slot. We need a tight end who's a receiver. We need running back. When they drafted James Cook after they missed out on JD McKissick and they were clearly pretty heated about this, like, we, yeah, we got to get a running back and catch press. Like, how about you just get a receiver? You know, that would, that would be another thing. So, you know, obviously the receiver out

Dan Fates (32:09)

of a tight end at a running back.

Matt Harmon (32:11)

Yeah. And I, I think that's the, the problem that they have there. And I think Kansas City City is another great example of a team that has this problem is you just can't have like multiple guys, two to three guys that you're catering to. You need to have one guy that you can. And I even, I even said this when the Chiefs were in Super Bowls, you know, not picking top 10 draft like they are this year. It's like, get one receiver who you don't have to do all the Mickey Mouse stuff with. You can just again, line up and let him go and let him win on his own.

Dan Fates (32:36)

Okay. I feel, feel validated.

Matt Harmon (32:38)

That's what I'm here for.

Dan Fates (32:39)

That's. I appreciate that. Are there some free agents that you would like to fit in Buffalo names? Off the top of my head. We've talked to a bunch of people here about the possibility of A.J. brown coming. Mike Evans, Romeo Dobbs, Alec Pierce. Feels like Pierce is going to get a big bag. But what would you like to see in Buffalo?

Matt Harmon (32:58)

Every team's like fan base and beat writers think that their team is Signing Alec Pierce, which means that he's going to get a lot of money because there's going to be a big market for him. And I get it. Like you, even if Pierce is a player that has his own limitations, he is someone that you can line up at X receiver and have him win against pressman coverage and win down the field. It's a rare skill set. You don't find it very often. I do wonder, like, is he a true high volume player? You know, you're betting on a guy that had 47 catches for over a thousand yards last year. There's probably some regression coming at some point there. But again, obviously a quality player. To me, I think for Buffalo, the way I've kind of looked at their wide receiver room and how they might look to solve this thing, you can definitely make the big swing, which is like an A.J. brown trade, I think would qualify as a big swing. Brian Thomas Jr. Potentially as a reclamation project in, in Jacksonville, I think that's a big swing to me. I actually think I would take two shots at it. Like I would do the double down approach here, which is take like a tier down from a veteran approach. And I think a trade makes sense for them. Obviously financially they'll have to work that part of it.

Dan Fates (33:53)

Seller cap isn't real. Don't worry about it.

Matt Harmon (33:55)

Sure, we, we'll just put that aside for a moment. Like I think from a salary perspective, you got to look at guys like Michael Pittman and D.J. moore, which are two veteran receivers. And I've talked about this because Bill's fans are very thirsty for the receivers they are. Anytime I post about it, we're going to the contest going, I'm ready to be heard again. Yeah, for sure. Maybe this, but this time maybe it's different.

Dan Fates (34:15)

Yes.

Matt Harmon (34:15)

But I think when I've said, hey, these guys like Pittman and DJ Moore, it's like, well, we're not looking for half measure. These guys are much better than the players that have come in this room. Like I, I like Josh Palmer as a kind of like wide receiver three type. These guys have been ones, if not really quality number twos. And I think that's where they're at at this point. DJ has experience with playing with Joe Brady back in Carolina. I'd had that conversation with him at the super bowl where he kind of dove into that system a little bit, what he likes about it. So again, I think it would be a natural fit there. He's somebody that actually can win on the perimeter for Michael Pittman. Slot and outside, a lot of versatility there. He would allow some of that switch release stuff we talked about with Khalil Shakir. Reliable against zone coverage, but can beat man press in the short areas. Just. Just a guy that's going to be where he's supposed to be, like a true pro. Two very different players, Pitman and DJ Moore. But I think I would at like look to trade for one of those guys and then still use an early pick in the draft. And that's where there's so many interesting options in the late first round. Where again, if I'm being. I am, I'm overcorrecting, you know, from where we kind of ignored the position ish last year. Didn't take any big swings. Josh Palmer's like your biggest, you know, addition. Which again wasn't really to be determined,

Dan Fates (35:26)

I guess in all honesty.

Matt Harmon (35:27)

For sure. But even if it had worked out, I mean what was like working out for Josh Palmer?

Dan Fates (35:31)

I'm trying to give a little bit of the benefit of the doubt, you

Matt Harmon (35:34)

know, and I think he's got his uses as a player that can win on like big over routes and dig routes in particular. And.

Mike Catalana (35:40)

And he can.

Matt Harmon (35:41)

He's got a decent set of release moves against press coverage. But still like the Chargers were a team looking for wide receivers. They drafted two and they essentially let him walk out the door uncontested.

Dan Fates (35:49)

Yeah, the Chargers fans weren't like heartbroken when the bill signed. And that's what I always think about is that when your team gets a guy, what is their fan. What is the previous team's fan base think.

Matt Harmon (35:58)

Exactly. Yeah. So I think that's definitely just kind of what it looked like last year for me, if I'm being this year. I almost like that double dip approach where we're taking two shots at this thing because okay, let's say DJ comes in and he doesn't. He's okay. Like he's just a non needle moving too. Well, we still took someone in the first round and hopefully we can recreate like a number one in the. Because that's the thing. Like everybody wants an elite number one receiver. Easier said than done. To give. To give Bean credit. He. And I think that obviously the Bengals didn't take kindly. This was a couple years ago where they talk about adding it to marches like, well, you got to lose a lot of games to be up there to take a player like that.

Mike Catalana (36:29)

He.

Matt Harmon (36:30)

He is right about that. Like that. That's an easier thing to say than to do.

Dan Fates (36:34)

Yeah. He also thinks that bitching about wide receivers is a dumb argument to do in Buffalo, which we can agree to respectfully disagree. Matt Harmon, I appreciate your time. One last question before you go. Because you said double dipping. So if there is a wide receiver at 26 or that you may like. I also think that 11 could be a possibility if Miami really wants to get more draft capital.

Matt Harmon (36:55)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (36:55)

Are there somebody guys there that you target first round talent that's realistic that you would like to see in Buffalo?

Matt Harmon (37:02)

There are five receivers that I would be 100 comfortable taking the first round this year. It's Carnell Tate and Makai Lemon which is my 1 and 2. And then I think there's a drop off there to then Jordan Tyson, KC Concepcion and Denzel Boston.

Dan Fates (37:14)

That's my boy.

Matt Harmon (37:14)

Yeah, I know. See Boston would be. It's funny if you see if you take. If you get guys like a Pittman or a DJ Moore, especially Pittman's a bigger body like I think they know that would allow you to look, look at like a KC Concepcion who I love. I mean I. He's got drop issues. He does need to correct that. I don't want to just yada yada. There's some interest. There's some things that need to get done there. But from a separation standpoint, explosive wins against man coverage. They haven't had anybody like that.

Dan Fates (37:37)

They need separate.

Matt Harmon (37:38)

They do need separators 100% and like Pitman would allow you to be that bigger body receiver. But if you go with Boston, that's like two towers there. A lot of size. He's somebody that I don't think just play plays X receiver either. You move him around the formation allows you to be very fluid in that way. So yeah, those guys are all pretty electric. Would be excellent if they did want to make the big move up the board then yeah, you look at guys like Tate or Lemon. But even like 11, I think those guys might go in the top 10. There's so many receiver needy teams up at the top. It's just. It's tough.

Dan Fates (38:08)

We can hope Bills fans. You can hope. That's right Matt. Really appreciate again reception Perception podcast Yahoo's

Matt Harmon (38:17)

fantasy yahoo fantasy forecast football 301 and receptionperception.com those are the pitches. And Twitter matharmonbyb. There we go.

Dan Fates (38:25)

Thanks man. Also thanks again for letting us use the backdrop.

Matt Harmon (38:27)

Oh no doubt. If you ever need you know to use it again, you want to iron

Dan Fates (38:30)

the other side, that would help us out too.

Matt Harmon (38:32)

I will let Colin know that he needs to Iron the other side of the screen.

Dan Fates (38:35)

Shout out Colin and his brother who watches the pod.

Matt Harmon (38:37)

There you go.

Mike Catalana (38:38)

Yeah.

Matt Harmon (38:38)

Appreciate it.

Dan Fates (38:38)

Thanks, Ben. Yeah, I love talking to Matt Harmon because I think it's great for our audience to hear a little bit more of that knowledge and insight on the position. He talked about how you stack wide receivers, how you can do things to get Joe Brady open, and. And he also. How Joe Brady can get them open as well as the players that he thinks could fit, like a Michael Pittman, a DJ Moore, so many that wouldn't cost as much as an A.J. brown to trade for. Obviously, we think Alec Pierce has probably priced himself out of Buffalo, those kind of things. Really, really appreciate him coming on.

Mike Catalana (39:11)

Yeah. And I'm glad you brought up my point about Khil Shakir, not you find the receipt, man. I will. I'm gonna find it. If you remember me saying it. And a lot of the viewers do, because they listen when I talk, unlike you. They heard me say that about Khalil Shakir, especially for a guy like Lemon, if somehow they wanted to move up to get him or, you know, Casey Concepcion.

Dan Fates (39:34)

Yep.

Mike Catalana (39:35)

Right. So, anyhow, just a thought.

Jenna Cottrell (39:38)

What was one of your other things that you took away from the Harmon interview? Just like talking big picture, that there

Dan Fates (39:45)

are things they can do when he talks about that stacking in the slot so that you can technically have two slot guys on one side. So if you wanted to have Shakir a little bit off the line and Coleman inside, things like that also just kind of. What. What do you think of, you know, his. His thoughts on what is left in Keon Coleman?

Mike Catalana (40:08)

I had this thought, Jenna, listening to it when they were recording it, and I had to stay quiet for the entire interview. It's very impressive, which is tough for me.

Jenna Cottrell (40:17)

Wow.

Mike Catalana (40:17)

It was a lot about the makeup of the room for the Bills, and it made me think. You know how we talk about guys who call plays and guys who call games. The Bills wide receiver room has players, but I don't know if the room is set up properly to get the most out of each individual player's skills. Like, I talk about Shakir and say, man, wouldn't he be a better player if somebody was really good on the outside? Wouldn't he be able to put up more numbers? I think he would. I just don't think. I think they've sort of pieced it together and it hasn't worked. That's why I'm really hopeful for a substantial overhaul. Right. Where I don't care who they stick up for maybe guys are gone and this room looks very, very different next year and maybe put together more in the way they want. You know, I think that's what I took. Yeah.

Jenna Cottrell (41:10)

Honestly, I think for me it's like you think so much about the defense and having it almost be positionless while for the wide receiver room, it's like I want it to be like a starting five. Like I want there to be obviously their interchangeability aspect but having different skill sets. So that way you can really have one person excel in one spot and one in another. And it stresses out the opposing defense in a way that makes it challenging because there's just some guy that's that much better at this than the defense. That's. That's kind of how I look at it.

Mike Catalana (41:41)

I'll make another football comparison. Remember how you talked about safeties if everybody knows the way you're.

Jenna Cottrell (41:47)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (41:47)

Perceived strong safety has to play. It's a giveaway and it's different than scheming up plays, but it limits what you can do. If both of them are sort of interchangeable opens up a lot of things. And that's what I think they need in the wide receiver room. They need more dynamic players.

Dan Fates (42:04)

Yeah, I know, John, you haven't listened to the interview yet, but I kind of mentioned that about the wide receivers being positionless like they talk about on defense. So we're kind of on the same wavelength there because when you, you know, before in the NBA your center would never be outside the paint. Right now you have centers in the NBA that go outside and hit threes and that stretches and stresses defenses to cover that. So if you only have Kincaid and Shakir in the slot, not only are you not allowing other guys to get that mismatches, you are more predictable. So it's. Yeah, it was a really enlightening. I really loved having Harmon on.

Jenna Cottrell (42:40)

Yep. Yeah, I love it. That's very cool. Anything else to touch on before we move to another topic?

Mike Catalana (42:46)

No, I don't think so. You're going to see. And whether we're in your watching this, you're going to see the drills. We went to watch them last night so they're going to do the wide receivers. I think that's Saturday.

Dan Fates (42:57)

Well, we were.

Mike Catalana (42:57)

We went to watch. We went into the dome yesterday and watched the wide receivers or watched the. Some of the drills and the. It was defensive line edge rushers running 40 yard dashes and I was trying to do my own timing.

Dan Fates (43:17)

I got to put in a clip here. I got to put in a Clip here. I don't know if I can because it shows NFL video. Mike has a guy clocked. He was using his timer at his phone. Yeah, this is bad podcasting. 3.8.

Mike Catalana (43:33)

That would have been a red mike

Dan Fates (43:38)

at 3.8.

Mike Catalana (43:39)

Hey, I want to see them get some attention. Yes.

Jenna Cottrell (43:44)

That is incredible, Michael.

Mike Catalana (43:46)

Well, that. That is fast. He was very.

Jenna Cottrell (43:48)

Yeah, that is.

Mike Catalana (43:49)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (43:52)

Mike's filming, and you can hear. I'm trying to film it, too, and we're trying to time it. And Michael's. I forgot to start it.

Mike Catalana (43:58)

No, I forgot to stop it

Matt Harmon (44:02)

was.

Jenna Cottrell (44:02)

You forgot to stop it.

Dan Fates (44:04)

No, we started late.

Mike Catalana (44:06)

Hey, we did have one where we both matched up exactly 4.33, wasn't it?

Dan Fates (44:10)

4.38. We both timed it together.

Mike Catalana (44:13)

Yeah, and we were wrong on that one, too.

Dan Fates (44:16)

So, Jen, it was very funny. We had a guy next to us, a guy that wants to be a scout. He was there. He was very upset because he was timing it on his phone, and he had the quote of the night saying, I hate doing it on my phone, but I left my stopwatch back at the hotel room. And I go, I hate when that happens. I hate when I leave the stopwatch at home.

Mike Catalana (44:36)

That's what he did.

Jenna Cottrell (44:37)

I love it. Oh, the NFL combine brings out some. Some interesting people. Yeah, that's funny. All right, let's talk a little. Report cards. So NFLPA leaking out the report cards that the NFL had specifically essentially countered against and said, don't release them. Somehow they got released. Mike Wild.

Mike Catalana (44:58)

How that happened isn't crazy. This league thinks they control narratives, and they're like, you cannot put out these reports, you know, from the NFLPA and what, to make the billionaires hurt their feelings. I think it's comical. And they all came out like that. The NFL PA did a good job leaking them all out there where they rate things like travel and locker rooms, treatment of families and food, nutrition, staffs, everything.

Jenna Cottrell (45:28)

Yeah, no, I agree.

Mike Catalana (45:31)

Bills did.

Jenna Cottrell (45:32)

I thought overall, I thought it was interesting. So they ranked 16th overall when you stack them up against every other team. So essentially middle of the pack. I thought the home field turf was their lowest grade. That was an F minus. But makes sense. That will change with a new stadium ahead. I did think having Sean McDermott, General Manager, Brandon Bean, ownership and offensive coordinator all got A minuses. Yeah, I thought that was interesting.

Dan Fates (46:04)

Yeah, I love the tidbits that come out. The Steelers rated. They got an F for their locker room, and it came out that in a locker room of grown men, 53 plus. They have five stalls for the bathroom.

Mike Catalana (46:18)

Five.

Dan Fates (46:19)

Mike said. What did you. What was the line? That's pretty crappy. Oh, yeah, you're like, like, have fun included, pun intended.

Mike Catalana (46:29)

And look for the Bills. I think the players give their honest answers. I think that's what the whole idea of it is. Right? You give your honest answer. We know the stadium is changing 100%. They're going to a different building. They have no facilities at that stadium either. They don't like the turf, and there's no facilities beyond the locker room in that stadium, so that'll be a major upgrade.

Dan Fates (46:52)

And the training staff, strength and conditioning, all that stuff. Jenna. B pluses.

Mike Catalana (46:57)

I thought they were A. Yeah, I think. Yeah, they.

Dan Fates (47:00)

Everything was an A or a B for the Bills and then they got an F for their home field advantage, whatever, you know that.

Jenna Cottrell (47:05)

Home field. Home game field.

Dan Fates (47:08)

Yes. Yeah.

Mike Catalana (47:09)

Not field advantage, but just the actual.

Jenna Cottrell (47:12)

They had three A's in weight room, strength coaches and position coaches because their

Mike Catalana (47:18)

weight room, which is in the other building, is very pretty nice.

Jenna Cottrell (47:22)

Yeah, yeah. So treatment of families. They got a B. Home game field. They got an F. Food and dine, dining area. They got a B minus. Nutritionist slash dietitian, B minus. Locker room, B training room, B plus training staff, B plus. Weight room, A strength coaches, a position coaches, A offensive coordinator, A minus. Defensive coordinator, B special teams coordinator, B plus. Team travel, B minus. Head coach, A minus. General manager, A minus. Team ownership, A minus.

Mike Catalana (47:58)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (47:59)

Not a bad report card.

Mike Catalana (48:00)

No. And. And the. The major ones, like the major one about the stadium, obviously transitions, and then there's other things. You know, we'll see how Joe does in a year as a head coach, because obviously that's a major change, because, as you know, these votes were taken what the beginning of last year is a couple of times they do the vote. So.

Dan Fates (48:20)

In breaking news, as first reported here on Buffalo plus, the salary cap went up.

Mike Catalana (48:28)

How much? 20 some million?

Dan Fates (48:29)

Yep.

Mike Catalana (48:30)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dan Fates (48:35)

How about that?

Mike Catalana (48:35)

Bill's signed a player.

Jenna Cottrell (48:37)

James Franklin.

Mike Catalana (48:38)

Signing Sam James.

Jenna Cottrell (48:40)

Franklin.

Mike Catalana (48:41)

James.

Dan Fates (48:42)

That would be a hell of a signing, Jenna.

Mike Catalana (48:44)

Yeah.

Jenna Cottrell (48:46)

Sorley is on the staff, so Sam Franklin, core special teamer. Yeah.

Dan Fates (48:54)

Special teams is one third of the game.

Mike Catalana (48:55)

He's a talker, too.

Jenna Cottrell (48:57)

Yeah, he.

Mike Catalana (48:58)

Sam's always talking.

Dan Fates (48:59)

He loves to fly down the field on kickoffs.

Jenna Cottrell (49:02)

Yeah, he definitely loves contact.

Mike Catalana (49:05)

Yes.

Jenna Cottrell (49:06)

I just wanted one more note on the salary cap thing, and I, I. You know, listening to Brandon Bean and Joe Brady this week at the combine, you know, they were asked a lot about the Cap and, and how they're going to add talent. And it was repeated the, the, the sentiment about having to pay Josh Allen. And Mike, I know that you've talked about on this channel how it's not about the Josh Allen, it's about the Josh Palmers. And I was thinking about it and it just to me feels like a guy complaining about having to pay for his Lamborghini.

Mike Catalana (49:42)

I love that analogy.

Jenna Cottrell (49:43)

I just don't feel bad for you.

Mike Catalana (49:46)

And Joe phrased it in one of his interviews. I think it was. Maybe it was with NFL Network where he said, you know, with knowing how much our quarterback makes now, I don't think that's any kind of slight on Josh Allen. First of all, yell. So many teams would take your problems. Talk about first world NFL problems. You got to pay Josh Allen. It's not like you're paying for. It's not like Miami with tua.

Dan Fates (50:10)

Right.

Mike Catalana (50:11)

A guy they want to get rid of. It's Josh Allen. And guess who works around it? Other teams. The Rams work around it. The Eagles work around it. The Chiefs have worked around it. The Ravens have worked around it. Right. I just, I know it's a factor. Obviously it's easier for the Patriots with Drake May. He's not making a lot of money relatively to quarterbacks. I don't want to hear it anymore. I don't. I don't think it's productive in any way. It's a fact of life. You're paying him more. You also get to redo his deal all the time at least to change it because you know he's going to be your quarterback. So think of it the other way. I just, it's just a bit of a little propaganda.

Jenna Cottrell (50:55)

I don't even think it's probably. It's just, it's tiring. It's like that's not.

Dan Fates (50:59)

Yeah.

Jenna Cottrell (51:00)

The reason you're in this situation, is it a component of. Of one of the dynamics? Yes. But it's also the fact that you have paid the wrong players and you haven't done a great job drafting contracts for drafting players to fill the voids on your roster.

Dan Fates (51:16)

When we've talked to and heard Jordan Reed and Emory Hunt from NFL Network and CBS Sports, like the, the sentiment we're hearing about the big picture of the Bills and like what they're doing heading into this draft is like hitting on a first round guy. Like you want to talk about what makes your salary cap better and a more favorable position drafts. Well, that, that helps. Like that cheap labor is what you can do now. The Bills have done a great job, like Brandon Bean has done a great job on day two and day three. It's now hitting on that first one.

Jenna Cottrell (51:49)

Yeah. And it's. It's not a perfect science. I don't want to say that we expect every draft pick to hit like that is. That is just not feasible. But especially those high impact draft picks. They need to be more productive. That's just a fact.

Mike Catalana (52:08)

And going back to the Josh Allen thing, I would say bitching about how much you're paying your quarterback is about the dumbest argument you can make.

Jenna Cottrell (52:21)

Hall of Famer.

Dan Fates (52:25)

That'll wrap up our coverage from Indy.

Jenna Cottrell (52:29)

Well done, Michael. Like that.

Mike Catalana (52:34)

All right.

Jenna Cottrell (52:34)

Anything else, gentlemen? Are you sad to leave? Are you excited? How do you feel? Was it productive? Okay.

Mike Catalana (52:42)

Yes. And for people who will, you'll hear them say, I bet you the reporters and the people there want to go to another city. No, they like Indy. It is incredibly convenient. And there's nothing reporters like more than convenience and free food.

Jenna Cottrell (52:57)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (52:58)

Yeah. A little weak on the free food.

Dan Fates (53:01)

Yeah. Cobb salad.

Mike Catalana (53:02)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (53:03)

It's all we really got.

Mike Catalana (53:04)

And then it's gone. It's not bad, but that's it. It's. It was a good week.

Jenna Cottrell (53:09)

Like, the tidbit that you learned that you're like, oh, I like that. That was a good one. From this week, Whether that be meeting with the player, whether that be something some of the other media people talk to you about, anything that stands out in your minds, that was like a. An interesting tidbit to take away.

Dan Fates (53:25)

I think the national media, like, narrative, you know, feels like we've hit the, you know, been banging the drum for a while, is, you know, their view on the wide receiver and their view on the. The divorce that was between being a McDermott, you know, we kind of said it would have been wild if Sean was coaching and was here with another team. Yeah, that would have been pretty spicy to, you know, see how that interaction went. But I think what our vibe was from being around the team is very similar. I know there were people that said, you guys said there was a zero percent chance that Sean McDermott was going to get fired. Talking to a bunch of people here that are insiders and that know it, they were surprised, too.

Mike Catalana (54:03)

I would also say, Jenna, a tidbit is just how risky people around the league think the move was to fire Shawn McDermott. And most of them would repeat it to, at least when we talked to them, was like, hey, this isn't even as much about Joe Brady individually, they were like, he could do great. They're like, you're taking a big risk because now once you've made this move, it's like, that wasn't good enough. But being there is the only way to make it better. Do you know what I mean? You got to get to the playoffs. You got to get to that round and you are taking a big chance. Win very, very good is where you draw the line of not being great. And so you have to get past that to great. And that puts a lot of pressure on the entire organization. And whether they say it's about Joe or not, he falls into it, right? Because it's like, oh, take over, get us over the hump. It could happen. He would be an all timer, right? If he can make that happen. That's a lot to put on anybody in their first year as coach. So that's been the sentiment. That's kind of what I took off of it. And then people are really, really, really watching the Bills and not just in the playoffs when they. Because they assumed they were going to be there. So we'll see how it plays out.

Jenna Cottrell (55:19)

Yeah. Okay. Cool. All right, well, safe travels home, gentlemen. We'll have plenty more podcasts coming up as we still talk about combine and God, the pinky jump scare. Oh, my goodness. Like, comment, subscribe and share buffalo plus to the moon thank you for 44k means a lot. It really does. Like, we, we have a lot of fun with this, so we really appreciate all the support for Mike and Dan. I am Jenna. Thank you so much for watching the Buffalo Plus YouTube channel. We will catch you back in Western New York soon.

Dan Fates (55:53)

Podcast Podcast.

Jenna Cottrell (55:56)

Damn it. Buffalo plus Podcast

Dan Fates (56:03)

Buffalo plus.