C (1:36)

Yeah.

B (1:36)

Yeah.

C (1:37)

Amazing.

B (1:38)

Even my daughter goes, daddy, Daddy's hair is brown and gray. That's not great. Not great.

A (1:44)

Love it. Shane from the top rope. Seriously.

C (1:48)

Also, I do want you to tell people the, the, the story of moving Shane's bed because it's funny later on.

B (1:55)

Okay?

C (1:55)

Okay. All right. Let's talk a little bills though. Training camp at the end of July. It'll start in Rochester. Of course, we're all excited for that. What do you think, Mike? I always start with you. I'm gonna go with Dan. What are you most confident in heading into training camp this year for the Bills?

B (2:13)

The Bills secondary, and more specifically, TR davious White? I am very confident. You talk about how like old dog can't learn new tricks. I've learned. I've. I've learned, I've matured and I've grown and I think the way. Yeah, I think with another season of Kyre Elam and even if Kyer isn't still where we expect him to be, I think the depth that they actually have for the first time the way that Christian Benford and I know, we talked about him at one pot, I really think he can be a difference maker in this defense, wherever that may be. You know, we talked about maybe he, you know, plays slot, maybe he plays safety. But you talk about having Jordan Poyer back with Micah Hyde, with Taylor Rapp, with Trudevius White coming off again. I'm now hearing more and more people talk about it takes two years to recover from an ACL surgery fully. It's crazy. And the fact is that I think that Trey will be back to better Kai here with another year. You still have Dane, who's the veteran of that group. I like Kair, you like Taran. I really like what they've done in the secondary, bringing those guys back. Another year of experience and another year of health for Trey White.

A (3:26)

Wow.

C (3:27)

I was not expecting that.

A (3:29)

Yeah. Dan, I'm a little surprised you started with those guys. Listen, I'm with you on the secondary. I mean, you started Trey White and Christian Benford where you have the most confidence. That's cool. I'm confident in the secondary as a whole. It's kind of funny, you know, how we all just got used to Poyer and Hyde. Poyer and Hyde, and you just started from there. Well, it's back to that. And I think their mindset is a little bit different too. They saw what life was like not being on the field together, not having both of them at times. Now they're back, and I think it's. It's sort of like they know it's much, much closer to the end than the beginning, but I think they can both play. I'm confident in that. McDermott loves coaching secondary as a D coordinator. Having the secondary be the focus of this defense, I think is important. Jenna, what do you have going on in the background?

C (4:21)

They're doing housework.

B (4:23)

Okay, perfect.

C (4:27)

Chuck's here.

B (4:28)

Chuck, I said hi. We have the same handyman at our houses.

A (4:32)

Jenna, you just have a swarm of people doing whatever you need during the day.

C (4:37)

So I live my life.

B (4:38)

Chuck is a Buffalo. Hey, Chuck is a Buffalo. Plus subscriber. Tell him to turn it down. Recording a podcast.

C (4:44)

I swear to God, he wasn't doing this till just now.

B (4:48)

It's amazing.

C (4:49)

Should I go outside?

B (4:51)

No, no, no, it's fine. Mike also going off that. How long have we always talked about the fact that this is a defense that is built back to front? No matter how many times, no matter how many defensive linemen they sign, anything like that, this defense is still built because of Poyer and Hyde and maybe again having them back with some of the pieces. Obviously I don't think Vaughn will be necessarily 100%, but the fact of the matter is, is that you can also get sacks by great coverage. There are coverage sacks and you can, you can affect the quarterback that way and maybe that's part of it. And what Taylor Rap's position and his role is going to be is still to be determined. But just an excited, I don't know, I'm just excited to see what that unit looks like back together in one piece heading into training camp.

C (5:41)

I will say, like you talk about them, I think that is huge for this team and the stability that that can offer. And then especially for McDermott, I think that's going to be a safety blanket that he can work off of for himself for this upcoming year, especially calling the defense. But when you poise this question, Dan, of like what we're most confident in heading in training camp, I'm not gonna lie, I thought what am I most confident in, in this team heading in? And I think it didn't jump out to me initially. You bring up the fact of, you know, Trey White coming back, all those things, I, I agree with that. But I was thinking about, you know, the offense, Josh Allen, I think he has a lot of pressure on himself this year. I think Allen has ascended himself into that realm of, of being the Madden cover model, all this stuff. But I, I don't have a ton of confidence in Ken Dorsey and what can evolve. I don't know where things will be at because I kind of want to get your take on this as well. Just like the Stefan Diggs thing, I think he's been a proven guy for this Buffalo team, but at the same point, you know, does this devolve, you know, things seem to be shored up with how things are going. But Mike, do you have a concern that later on in the season that this Stefan Diggs thing could rear its ugly head once again if, you know, targets are going his way or, or wins aren't coming the team's way?

A (7:05)

Yeah, I, I, that can always happen. John Madden used to have this line is winning is the great deodorant, right? So whatever stinks gets better when you're winning. And that's really what it is. And that's funny to say because they were winning last year. You know, when I hear people and you know, I like a lot of people covering the team, but you know, there are times people maybe depending on where they are, they, they sort of look at numbers, look at stats, talk about the team, winning streaks, all those things. I know this is this spoiled world we've lived in with this team winning so many games, but guys, did you ever even feel like they were on a winning streak last year? No, I knew they were, but it kind of was like, oh, yeah, they've won like seven.

B (7:49)

Early on. Yeah, early on, I think, I think when it was the Kansas City game and things started to roll, then I think that was the only time that I was like, oh, this is, this seems legit. But after that, everything seemed like a grind. How many times did we do post game recaps on here or the audio? And we're like, yeah, they won, but man, like it wasn't pretty. And we always talked about style points, you don't need them and things like that, but man, just nothing came easy. It felt like last year.

C (8:17)

Yeah, I would totally agree with that. Especially like once we got into November, like that back half of the season back like third of the season, it was, it was a grind. I mean, think about those games though. The game against the Browns that eked out the win. Then they had the Lions game and, and the circumstances. Yeah, yeah, there was a lot that went into my, My worry is that there, there was such an emotional season last year that there's going to be some sort of a hangover from that. Like, you talk about the championship hangover for a lot of teams. Yeah, I'm. I'm curious if there will be this hangover effect, especially considering how things have already bled into this year of like, there was a lot going on off the field. Does that contribute to these players still feeling exhausted from what went down?

A (9:04)

I, I can't go there with them. And here's why. I think we've mentioned a few guys that either weren't healthy or weren't playing. I mean, you know, Von was out, Hyde was. I mean, think about that. Yeah, they were playing the second half of the year without Von Miller and Micah Hyde as the two most. Two of the four most important players on the team. But I'm also, I think this McDermott call in plays, I think of refocus of maybe what they want to do on offense. And yes, that includes a lot of pressure on Dorsey and everybody else. I kind of think that's a good thing. People are doubting them, you know.

C (9:41)

Know what?

A (9:42)

Go with the nobody thinks we can do it card. I think they're better feeling that way. You remember what this was like last year. It's like they have the Best roster. People are calling them the super bowl favorites. It's sort of like they were anointed without ever getting there. And I think we were all guilty of buying into that a little bit. I think if I'm McDermott and this. I want to talk more about this later, but if I'm McDermott, I think that frees you up a little bit to. I won't even say change. How about if I say adjust things? Adjust the way they do it? Because you can argue that even though there's people that will tell you they won 13 games, they did it, needed to adjust. I will say the way they approach the offense, some of the things they do on defense. No Tremaine Edmonds, Dan's talking about back to front maybe being more of the focus. So I'm kind of excited about that part of saying it's not like some sort of rebuild or total reset, but it's like, hey, we're doing it a little different this year.

B (10:44)

I was going to say make that point of. You talked about refocusing. I think it is a little bit of a reset. And I did this in the video where I talked about the 10, five players, five bills that I think are under the most pressure. And it made me think about culture. And it made me think about how Seth Appert, he's the Amerx head coach of the Sabres affiliate, the minor league team, and great soundbite guy. All these things. If you haven't seen the video, go back. It's the last video on this channel, my five bills that. Except it's one position group, two players and two coaches, and one of them is Sean McDermott. And the fact of the matter is, is that we've always talked about the culture that Sean McDermott has built, right? It's the culture, it's the process, all of these things. And when I talked to Seth Apert, who had turned around a struggling hockey franchise in two years ago, deep playoff runs, he talked about it. And I was like, yeah, like, you built this culture. And he's always quick to point out, like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Culture is never set. Like, when you think culture is set, he goes, you lose it real quick. You constantly have to be working and meticulously the way that you do things. And I thought it was very telling. Yeah, I know, Jen. The hard work. Chuck is a great handyman. He does phenomenal work. Yeah. And I was. And I was on a roll, but it was the fact of the matter, Mike. Of like, I think they may have lost sight of that culture, and they lost sight of that a little bit this off season, and the fact that they're having to deal with this stuff, like, get back to what you were doing in 2019 and 2020 when you were building this. And then it's almost like you're like, all right, like, we got. Culture can just. You can run itself. It's like, no, it doesn't. You have to constantly be on top of it, and new players and new coaches have come and go, and I think you need to reset back to what that. That style of culture got to you. Got you to where you were.

A (12:23)

Now Chuck is ch. Is getting it done.

C (12:30)

He is. Sorry, everyone.

B (12:32)

Great ad building.

A (12:33)

The.

C (12:34)

They build services.

B (12:36)

Yeah.

C (12:36)

I don't know the exact name, but fantastic work. Good stuff.

A (12:40)

Are they building you that suite you've been talking about?

C (12:43)

Yes, of course. It's all about me. Okay, wait, Dan, you. You brought up a good point because. About culture always evolving, and I hear that, but I guess how much my thing is, like, is it on McDermott to kind of handhold people there or how does that work?

B (13:01)

No, so. So we always joke around about making relationship comparisons, right? We've done that on this channel quite a bit. When you start a relationship and you're dating somebody, you open up.

C (13:11)

No, I like this. Okay. Yeah, you.

B (13:13)

You open up doors. You. You kiss them goodbye, you say, I love you, you send them cute text messages, and then as the relationship goes on, it's like, I don't need to open the door anymore. I did that. No, no, no, no, no. That's what got you to where you were with a great relationship. Opening up doors, sending the cute messages, leaving nice notes, doing the little things, and then all of a sudden, you're like, well, I've done the little things. I'm all good because I've set the foundation. No, you got to keep doing those things. And maybe McDermott's not opening the door as much. Okay. And maybe he's just got to get back to. To being that tlc. And again, really having his is. You know, it's kind of his footprint and is on this team. And maybe by getting back to being a defensive coordinator, being more hands on. I was afraid to go to hands on when I'm talking about a relationship, but just the fact of the matter is of, like, having that kind of impact again. Getting into it, I think helps.

C (14:06)

I actually love that example because you're right. I think I. I thought of it as, like, being almost meddling, but when you phrase it like that it makes sense of, like, facilitating and doing the things that you did before to help establish the. The bond and all that stuff. No, that makes sense.

A (14:24)

Yeah. I love the analogy, Dan. And I can say I open doors, but maybe there was a time I kind of stopped doing it, and then I got back to doing it and people notice. And if you use that analogy to say, all of a sudden people are like, this is the way we do it. And I think you can do that in a way on a football team. Maybe it's got to be a little overt. Like, these are the rules. This is what we do.

C (14:51)

Yeah.

A (14:52)

But he still has those guys who follow those rules. Right. And this is where a little bit of the Diggs thing comes in. You know, some of it has been overblown, but some of it is just that bit. You're a captain. You're that guy. I'm not saying you can't have an opinion. That's the funniest thing, Jenny. I see people. It's like, he should be able to have an opinion. I agree with that.

C (15:13)

Oh, yeah.

A (15:13)

But there's ways to go about it. Hyde's not doing it. Poyer's not doing it. Man. I become even a bigger fan of Poyer with the way he's.

B (15:20)

With the way he handled everything going back. Unbelievable.

A (15:24)

Everything. That's the way a captain acts. And I'm not saying that we're. We've all been from the outside watching, knowing there's some frustration, but that's kind of not the Bill's way. And to your point, Dan, get back to that show, everybody. And Sean still has those guys who show the way this is the way we do it and doesn't mean you can't tweak it. And I think he's been astonishingly adaptive to his players from the kind of guy he was coming in the door. Sean gets a lot of grief for a lot of stuff, and he deserves it. But he's adapted, I think, a lot. And I think people's perception of Sean outside is very different than the perception of him from the players treats him like men. He makes rules. They follow those. Does he make mistakes? Absolutely. But to Dan and Jenna, your point about culture and the way to do it. I think this gives him a little leeway of reinforcing that, and I think that starts at Fischer again or continues at Fischer camp is a great time for that stuff, and I think they're going to do it.

B (16:31)

And Mike, you talk about how he's adapted. I think that's Great. And he deserves a lot of credit for that. Much like in a relationship where you adapt, but you don't stop doing what got you to the relationship. And I think again, that is why. And I know, I'm sure some people are sick and tired of this digs talk, but it is so un McDermott bills. Like, like, this is Rex Ryan. This is all of those other coaches. Who is the Marone. This, this is what you would have seen out of those bills. And we haven't seen any of it under Sean McDermott. So I guess that's where it's a little bit more. Where it has my antennas raised more. And Janet, to your point, do you think this is over? No, because I 11 we haven't heard from dicks. So, like, that's another reason we're really not going to get any close to closure, closer to closure than. Than until we hear from. From Steph. And when that is, I don't know. But then it'll be another big deal again. But the fact is, is that like, again, yeah, some of this is overblown, but like, don't get lost in what got you to being a Super bowl contender and that process and those little things. And again, maybe the like. I'm sure every team goes through this and you need something to tighten it up. Sometimes it just, it helps when you have Patrick Mahomes or Tom Brady or Peyton Manning and great hall of Fame quarterbacks that are able to cover up some of those times where you slack off.

C (18:03)

Yeah, I would agree. I think it's really interesting. And maybe this digs thing has led to McDermott and the leaders on this organization being like, yeah, maybe we do need to make some changes. Maybe we do need to adapt. Maybe we do need to get back to our roots and all of these things, which I. I think has proved the Bills really well over these last couple of seasons. So it's just getting back to that. But it is an interesting example, just considering how unusual the circumstances have been.

A (18:34)

A brief aside here, we're talking about Diggs. The whole if you saw the Craig Carton, he's a New York City get a mic. Well, it look, I get his job. Those guys are good throwing stuff against the wall. You know, they have programming every day. I have no problem. Craig Carton's got, you know, he's had a lot of issues, but he's had a ton of success doing that kind of stuff. He's in New York. I mean, when he's talking about Diggs with changing his contract to Get Hopkins and then the Bills turn it back. That's total nonsense. It's not the way it works. It didn't work this way. No general manager is making a move on a player specifically to get another player. Even if in his mind he's freeing up space, he's not telling the player, do this and I'll go get your buddy. So all that is nonsense. They keep talking about it, but what's not nonsense is to what Dan's point is. That's still out there and it needs to be addressed. And I think McDermott and the leaders on the team need to at least open their eyes a little bit. You know how we've all been there where somebody criticizes you and you take a step back and maybe the way they do it, you don't like, maybe it becomes an argument. But at some point, if you are mature enough, you sit back and you go, maybe they got a little bit of a point. Maybe I can change a little. So that's why I keep saying adjust, and I think he will. And. But they got to get. They got to get past that. There's other issues on this team. Stefan Diggs and his targets and the offense should be one of the least important things they need to worry about because that is. That's one of the things they do best.

C (20:04)

Yeah. Yeah, I would agree. Mike, you mentioned before about the adaptability of McDermott, and I wanted you to just continue your thought on, like, what. What change? I don't know if I want to say changes, but, like, what McDermott needs to continue to do.

A (20:22)

Yeah, you know, the. One of the things I want to see them do is get some of the young players on the field more. And look, we're not talking about NBA rest guys, get ready for the playoffs, but this team, while the focus has been, you know, win the division, try to get the number one seed, all those things, that's all still should be the goals. It should be important. But you got to. You got to get some of those other guys on the field, and you got to get more minutes out of them, and you have to be focused on not just playing your best at the end of the year, but playing your best in the playoffs. And obviously, the stuff that went on at the end of the year railroaded all of that, and that's really a shame. And obviously it was bigger than just them playing, but I think it's been so focused on, you know, and this is kind of what Andy Reid went through when he was with The Eagles and McDermott was there where it was like. Or a playoff team. We got into the title game, we got to get the home field. And then they did all that and got smoked at home by Tampa. Like, and it was alarming. And it was like, this team's never going to get there because you did everything you said you needed to do and had it all set up and it still didn't work. Kind of reminds me of last year, even though it was two rounds earlier. So I think these just the mindset, and I know that's hard for coaches, the way they grind. But, like, an example would be Jenna. Josh played through four weeks with that elbow. Yeah, I know it's hard to do. In hindsight, I think he should have sat out or at least a couple of those weeks. And I know maybe it cost him a few games. This is why you have a backup quarterback. He wasn't healthy. He played through it. I don't know if you guys agree, and I know it's tough, tough, tough, and everybody's tough. But, like, it's regular season. Games get him healthy for the playoffs. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the training staff would tell me, nope, it wouldn't have done any good. But he started to make mistakes he doesn't normally make. He was making adjustments he doesn't normally make, and then by the end of the year, he was maybe a little worn out, too. I don't know. Do you guys agree with any of that?

C (22:30)

I mean, I definitely see the thought process for that. I think we were shocked at how fast he came back.

A (22:34)

Yeah.

C (22:35)

Which I don't know if that is a good thing or a bad thing. Obviously, they did lead to wins for the Bills and how that would change things if they wouldn't have picked up those wins. But at the same point, you're right. What matters most is getting to be in the playoffs and playing your best ball in the playoffs. My thing is this upcoming season, it's like you have to figure out a way to avoid either the Bengals or the Chiefs. Like, if you. The team that has to play your control. No, I. I get that. But the team that has to play two of those always loses. The. It's the. It's the. You know what I mean?

A (23:12)

Yeah.

C (23:12)

I mean, like, when the bank. When the Bengals didn't have to play the Bills two years ago, they went out, they ended up beating the Chiefs. Yeah. When the Bengals had to play the Bills last year, they ended up losing to the Chiefs. Like, if you have to have two gauntlet games in a row, your chances are not great considering how tough the AFC is.

A (23:33)

Yeah, that's a good point. If, if you know. And again, by the time we get there, who knows if there's another team. It's the Chargers, the Ravens, whoever it is. Yeah, but we've seen these other teams do it. We've seen these other quarterbacks do it. It's actually, you know, it's actually a good point. I remember thinking that last year when they had done everything they could to try to be the one seed and then they aren't and then they were in that spot which to me was the biggest thing. Even though if they'd have gotten to the championship they still would have had to play the Chiefs. So that's a good point. But you're Dan's right, you, you can only control so much of that depending on how the rest of it maps out. But it is interesting. I hadn't really thought about. None of them have beaten both in order to get to the Super Bowl.

C (24:15)

And I will say too you bring up the point of like having younger players be out there. I think of how influential this Chiefs rookie draft class was to their success and I get it. It's like I feel like sometimes almost McDermott uses like kid gloves on some of the younger players. But I feel like at the same point to have these guys kind of come into a situation, learn trial by fire all this stuff like the Bills talk about Dalton Kincaid and what he can add, like I want to see him be a big piece of this offense and, and get those reps and earn those reps and look, there's going to be mistakes made obviously. But at the same point I think that's so important and when you look at other players, especially first round picks in the past, I feel like there has been this hesitancy to like put them out on the field in terms of. I'm talking about the Kair Elams like players like that or even when they benched at Oliver, all this stuff where it's like I want to see those young guys play.

B (25:11)

I the only thing I'll say, and I know we haven't talked a ton about Kincaid, especially since post draft and things like that and obviously there's been a lot of hype. Vaughn said, oh Dalton kids different. I, I guess I again have tempered expectations just because the history of rookie tight ends coming in and making immediate impacts in the league is, is pretty small. Like we all thought that Kyle Pitts was this freak athlete, different quarterback, different situation, all of those things. But like I, I Think that we're all sitting there thinking like. And especially after hearing some of Bean's comments being like, oh, he's going to be a Cole Beasley esque in his role. And Mike, I know we've talked about that, of just the fact of taking up the middle of the field and those kind of things. I guess I'm just a little concerned that Dalton Kincaid is going to be the piece that unlocks this Bill's offense.

A (26:03)

Well, okay, so there's something in between those two. Yeah, there's playing as much as Khalil Shakir played last year. And I know he was a fifth round pick, but Gabe played a lot as a rookie.

C (26:12)

He did.

A (26:13)

And Kincaid is a number one pick. And this is where I say sometimes Jenna made the point about number one picks. It's been an oddity because other guys have played. I mean, you know, Milano played Benford, played Dion Dawkins. Yeah, yeah. And what's interesting is how when you're forced to it remember, you know, you're sitting there watching and you're like, oh, my God, their safeties are Demar Hamlin and Jaquan Johnson. Like, how did that happen? And they had to play. Actually, they played pretty well, I mean, considering what the expectations were. So you're right. They were sort of forced into that spot and to do it. But I think there's a way to make Kincaid impactful in the offense. But it's not like you. Everything goes for him. Besides, he doesn't have a leader like Dak Prescott at quarterback. You know, I mean, Cole, that was wild. Hey, Cole, settle down, okay? He's not on a roster. I don't know if he's mad at the Bills because they didn't bring him back. He's not on anybody's roster right now. But Dak Prescott is the best leader I've played with.

B (27:15)

Yeah, I'm really spoken like a true Eagles fan.

C (27:19)

Wow.

B (27:22)

We needed context. We needed context there a little bit.

C (27:25)

But honestly, like, you look at Dak Prescott's resume compared to Josh Allen's and I. Yeah. And make me giggle.

A (27:31)

It's like Dak gets all. And look, I think Dak gets too much grief. I really do. But, you know, they took away, you know, one of his best receivers, you know, and. And then they expected it to go well a little bit like with the Bills.

B (27:46)

But Dax sympathizer over here.

A (27:48)

No, but I'm staying. But you, Cole Beasley, who just left the Bills.

C (27:52)

Yeah.

A (27:53)

And you say that after you had already been. Whatever. I'M saying is that kind of stuff goes on. But in terms of roles for guys you can play, like these guys are going to play. Look, he's going to have to, I think he's going to have to do that. Jenna at linebacker. Yeah, it's what it appears to be.

C (28:10)

So I agree.

A (28:10)

You're gonna trust, you're gonna trust the defense maybe to a first year guy or a second year guy.

C (28:16)

I wanted to jump back to the Dalton Kincaid thing because I agree like Dan, I don't expect him to unlock this.

B (28:22)

Yeah, that's probably, that's fair. Hand up. That's a little.

C (28:25)

But also it's like why would you draft him if you don't expect him? Like I, I, my thing is I want to see him out there. I want to see him be a piece of. He doesn't need to be the, you know, the, the straw that stirs the drink per se. But at the same point I want like don't draft him if you don't see him being a piece of your offense going forward. I think that's a pretty fair assumption to say.

A (28:49)

Yeah, that's fair. That's very fair. He doesn't have to be the priority. He needs to be a priority for the.

C (28:56)

Yeah, yeah. That's how every woman feels.

A (28:59)

Well, it's funny, I was going to.

C (29:01)

Reference that I don't need to be your only priority, but I need to be a priority.

A (29:05)

I was going to reference that as another relationship.

B (29:07)

I love these pods when we get into.

C (29:13)

Pretty like when you put it like that it's like oh yeah, that makes sense.

A (29:17)

Yeah. And, and, and there is, and in this case this guy is talented. He, I think in the offense you can clearly see a role for him. Right.

C (29:27)

Yeah.

A (29:27)

And then the question is where is he? How quick, quickly can he develop? And there's there a package of plays for him.

C (29:34)

Yeah.

A (29:35)

That you know, that he doesn't go the Nahim Hines route of they can't quite figure it out. Maybe he's not handling it. I don't think that's going to be the issue. But Dan's right. We think about these rookies and you're like, ah, he's going to step right in. That's a rarity to be like the guy rarity. But if Gabe is playing well and digs his digs all of a sudden it's, it's a little easier to be that guy than to come in like Kyle Pitts with bad quarterbacks and a new head coach and try to become, you know, by the way, you know, they, yeah, it's. That's bad franchises too, but maybe it takes a little while. But I want to see him on the field. I want to see him, give him a legitimate shot to show what he can do.

C (30:16)

My thing is there's got to be more of a balance between getting your rookie acclimated and not having them out on the field.

B (30:25)

And again, it goes back to the point when you talk about like rookies treating with kid gloves, it's just first round picks. They treat with kid gloves.

A (30:34)

Yeah.

B (30:34)

Everybody else, they just chuck in the far end of the pool and say, figure it out. And a lot of times it's worked. Like I even go back and again, quarterbacks, defensive line, a lot of defensive line and some corners, but just the fact of like, it's like, oh, we don't want him to get. And Bean has talked about that, about how expectations of where players get drafted and how they affect their development and things like that. So it is, again, you kind of look back to it. They even didn't give Josh Allen the starting job. Like that wasn't even.

C (31:03)

Forget that.

A (31:03)

Yeah, right. But I'll give you two examples. Dion Dawkins, Cody Ford. Right. Both second round picks. Right. Cody was a second, right? Yeah.

C (31:15)

I forget Cody Ford.

B (31:17)

Yeah. They traded back up for him.

A (31:18)

Right. One guy has basically played every game since he's been with the Bills and the other guy couldn't stay on the field. Moved him around. Some of it's on the player too.

C (31:27)

Yeah.

A (31:28)

That would then maybe on being the coaches, whatever it is, like we talk about, Elam's the first round pick, the kid in the sixth round is the guy who starts. So they, they have done it. And I think there's every reason they want to see Kincaid on the field. I think they really do. And so it can become in the coach's mind, a priority. And then to Jenna's point, you're feeding him how much, what are we seeing? How much are we seeing? And then he has a legitimate role in the offense and that can expand as it goes on.

C (31:59)

So, yeah, there's, it's a spectrum. Right. Like we can, you, you can figure out the balance, but I think there needs to be more of a balance as opposed to like one side versus the other.

A (32:11)

Yeah.

C (32:11)

All right. DeAndre Hopkins.

A (32:17)

Yeah. Michael, look, he's a talented guy. I hear all this stuff. You know, you see all the, the network guys are saying, you know, they're ramping up, they're trying. No, nobody's paying him what he wants to get paid. He probably doesn't want to come in until at some point at camp. His. His group is sitting there going, somebody's going to have an injury, somebody's going to have an issue and it's going to look better for me. Right. That's what they're waiting for. No one has stepped up money wise and said this is why, because if that was the case, he'd be signed already. Are the Bills still in it? Yeah, I think Beans got a number that it would work for him and he can make it work. Poof. You got a contract. But they're not going to go above that. Look at all these guys that are out there still looking for jobs. Right. Especially some of these running backs. Dalvin Cook is going to probably sign soon, but he hasn't signed. Right. Ezekiel Elliott is out there. These were guys who got paid a lot of money and have been around. There's players waiting. Hopkins is one of those guys. Yeah. I think they'd like them now, Jenna, to that point, you sign Hopkins. Yes. He's a wide receiver now. Maybe they feel. I'm not saying Kincaid replaces Hopkins, but in terms of rolls and snaps and using that 12 formation, you know, or 11 and a half, that being called it, that changes if you get Hopkins. Right? I mean, it just does. So.

C (33:51)

Yeah.

A (33:51)

Would also tell you maybe a little bit of what they're thinking, I guess.

C (33:56)

Yeah, it's. It's as simple as, like they always joke on part of my take like a dude off of like, which, like if you can name the. The studs, the. The like the stars on a roster and like having DeAndre Hopkins, that adds some star power. Yeah, but I hear you. How does that point formation and what would that even look like?

B (34:17)

Yeah.

C (34:18)

And do you want to make a good point?

B (34:20)

Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. You're saying like, Mike makes a good point of like, if you go into the draft thinking, like, okay, like we're going to run this certain type of personnel and then you totally add somebody that kind of throws a wrench in it. Because I would imagine then you'd want to go more three wide. Like, I imagine you want to run more 11 personnel, which what is what they have run for quite some time.

C (34:43)

Or.

B (34:46)

Now like saying that out loud. It's like if they sign Hopkins, Gabe's gone. Like, because that. That. That just doesn't fit into the equation of. Of what it would be then. Then what?

A (34:55)

There's literally gone at the end of the year Correct.

B (35:00)

Yeah.

C (35:02)

Long term, you would want to develop Gabe.

B (35:08)

But you're saying that right then and there, money talks. It's not like, oh, we. We think really highly of Gabe. It's. We've now brought. Correct. But we brought in Emmanuel Sanders to play over you and take your snaps, and now we're bringing in another guy to take your snaps.

A (35:23)

I don't think Dan loves a take more than. That's why they brought in Emmanuel Sanders. And it has led to your. And by the way, how about Gabe waving at you at practice the other day?

B (35:35)

Yeah. Nice photo bomb, actually.

C (35:38)

That was really well played by him.

B (35:40)

It was phenomenal.

A (35:41)

Yeah, you guys are tight.

B (35:43)

Who else has done that, too? We had that somewhere else that I remember. We went to go film somebody and everybody, all the cameras rushed over to that position group, and everybody's like, what are y' all doing over here? It's like, what do you think we're doing? Where do you think the cameras are all pointed at?

C (35:58)

At mini camp when Vaughn was like out on the field or something. I don't know.

B (36:03)

That was it.

C (36:04)

I just think they're very Emanuel.

A (36:09)

All right, Jenna, to your point, Hopkins. 0 to 10 or 100%, whatever number you want to get. Chances that they sign them. I'll start out and say 30.

C (36:24)

0 to 10.

A (36:26)

0 to 100. Say 0 to 130. Well, I said every way you want it.

C (36:31)

Wow. I wasn't expecting you to be that confident.

A (36:34)

Oh, no, I'm not that confident. I'm gonna say 30 just because he's out there and the bills have talked about it.

C (36:40)

Yeah, I said three out of 10, three different.

A (36:43)

So it's the same. Yeah, we're going, right?

C (36:44)

Yeah.

A (36:45)

Dan, 15. Yeah. Okay.

C (36:48)

Okay, that's fair. I think we're all in agreement. Okay. Anything else, you gentlemen? Oh, tell them the princess bed.

B (36:58)

Oh, yeah. My daughter has a club foot, so she has to have a floor bed when we transitioned her. So it's really just. It's really just like a slats. And then it's just to make it more kid friendly. Our brother in law, amazing with wood. Built like a house. So it looked like a house bed kind of thing. And we built it three months ago when we transitioned her out of her crib. She's almost three years old next. She'll be three years old next month. And I remember when they put it together in pieces and he's like, hey, do we want to put liquid nails in this thing? Because we're like, well, it'll all come out if we ever need to move, well, baby number two is due in August. So we're switching rooms. We switched those rooms. So we're like, okay, we'll just. Now we can't get it out, so we've got to cut it. So we had to cut the bed in half. The top part of the house out. Didn't go back together at all as. And then we're sitting there in this room being like, our daughter is going to be devastated. We're devastated. It's the bed we thought our daughter would grow up, you know, in. And we're like, we got to tell Shane. We got to get her to come up here. And she comes up here, and we're thinking that it's going to be meltdown. How are we going to handle this? And she just straight up looks, and she goes, this is awesome. And then we go, are you sad? And she goes, I don't care. It's like, sweet. So, yeah, the lesson is, is don't use liquid nails.

A (38:14)

I think that's.

B (38:15)

That's the moral of the story.

C (38:17)

I don't care.

B (38:18)

Yeah.

A (38:19)

So, yeah, I had a home improvement moment, and I stunned the entire household. It is the most simple task in the world. They had zero faith in me getting it done, and I got it done. I replaced a deadbolt lock on the front door. And the moment. The moment it was done, Jenny kept looking at me going, we're gonna need somebody to do this. And then I got it done. But then she said, because we are moving. Super nice people buying the house. They know all about it. She's like, no one touched the door until we move. She goes, just go around the front to get the mail. That's kind of what she said. So that tells you, even when I complete a task at the house, they have very little faith in me.

C (39:09)

Yeah.

A (39:09)

No, but it's done now. I don't have, you know, obviously Chuck here building suite for me.

C (39:15)

Chuck is. Chuck is putting in the work right now.

A (39:18)

Yeah.

C (39:18)

I'm trying to think if I did anything silly. Probably most likely. Definitely, yes.

B (39:23)

Coming up, the next pod we've talked about doing answering more comments.

A (39:27)

Yeah.

B (39:27)

So do a mailbag. So comment in. We're also going try and go back and look at some of the previous podcasts we've done to find some comments there as well, because there's been some good ones. We may dunk on some comments that tried to dunk on us. But again, your comments, your questions that you want answered. We'll do a mailbag podcast coming up. Just about what your concerns, thoughts, comments heading into training camp. Because even though the Bills aren't, you know, they got 35 days until training camp, we. We don't take any days off except for Jenna.

C (39:59)

Yeah.

A (40:01)

It'S always VJ day here.

B (40:05)

Vacation Jenna.

C (40:06)

Vacation Jenna. All right. Yes, we'll put up a tweet to have people answer in. But if you have a comment or a question for the mailbag for next week, be sure to comment it in this video as well. We'll go through this as well. And in terms of other comments. Yeah, just whatever you all think about what we talked about, if something comes to mind, you know, McDermott's approach, DeAndre Hopkins wise, or what you are most confident in with the Bills heading into training camp. We want to hear from you as well. Again, a reminder, we have the Buffalo plus store. Buffaloplus store dot com. Plenty of new stuff being added as well. Mugs, tumblers, shirts. I mean, really, we have a bunch of stuff, so be sure to check it out. And then.

B (40:49)

Oh, we're gonna. We gotta do our road game draft as well. We haven't forgotten about that. I have seen some of those comments coming in. We had to iron some other things out. Maybe we'll get to that at some point. But we can now, we can now do a draft.

C (41:03)

Yeah. Yeah. So we'll work on that as well. And then. Yeah, there's plenty of stuff coming up. Training camp, too. It'll be here before you know it. I just have a couple more vacations in between.

A (41:15)

Just a couple, man.

C (41:18)

All right. For Mike and Dan, I'm Jenna.

A (41:20)

And and for Chuck and for Chuck.

C (41:23)

Chuck's got a lot of. Chuck's done a lot of work. A lot. All right, well, thank you for joining us here on Buffalo plus, presented by Connors and Ferris. We'll catch you next time. Please be sure to like, comment and subscribe. We always appreciate it. Thank you.

D (41:38)

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A (41:50)

Thanks.

D (41:50)

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