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Buffalo Plus: A Buffalo Bills podcast
Cut to the 53, pressure on Josh Allen and win total in 2022
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- [00:01]
A
The cuts are coming. What surprises might we see as the Bills get down to 53 on Monday? Plus, the position group that causes the most concern heading into the season. And pressure. How much pressure is on Josh Allen this year? Plus, we give our win totals for the bills for the 2022 season. All that's coming up on this week's edition of the Buffalo plus podcast.
- [00:27]
B
Foreign welcome back to the Buffalo Plus YouTube channel, presented by Connors and Ferris, Mike Catalana, Dan Fates. I am Jenna Cottrell. Before we jump in, please be sure to like, comment, and most importantly, subscribe to the Buffalo Plus YouTube channel, as well as subscribe wherever you find your audio podcast. All right, guys, we have a lot to talk about as we wrap up. We get ready for the final preseason game of the summer. The roster cuts that come after that. Dan, feel like you're gonna have some spicy takes today. How you feeling?
- [00:59]
C
Me? Never. I don't know what you're talking about. I am just mediocre.
- [01:04]
A
Dan.
- [01:05]
C
Lukewarm takes is what they call me.
- [01:07]
B
When you start your day with a birdie. I'm sure that you're going to be feeling pretty good. All right, Michael, what about you?
- [01:12]
A
Look behind me. You see right there, behind. Oh, no, on this side. This side. Put it on this side. You know what that is? I was looking the other day. I was getting stuff together. That's my credential from the Chiefs playoff game. Oh, and that's our last real game that we've seen. And, you know, I'm just putting that up. It's just a reminder for the whole long stretch of football we have coming up. Good things, obviously, terrible ending for them, but it's just got me ready for what we're going to see in less than two weeks. Jenna, when we're head out to la.
- [01:45]
B
Yeah. All right. I said Dan was going to be spicy, but you're firing right off the gate. All right, so let's talk about it because the Bills have to get their 53. Their roster down to 53 guys. Coming up on Tuesday, we have the preseason finale in Carolina. Mike. I mean, we've talked about this off camera, about the decisions that have to be made, where Brandon Bean goes where, what direction this team is going. What do you think will be kind of that last final cut or what do you expect out of this next round?
- [02:14]
A
You know, I've heard people say, wow, it's a really difficult decisions. I don't really buy that for Bean. I think it's been relatively decided before we got to camp he knew roughly the roster he wanted. Have guys shown more. Absolutely. I mean, when you look at a guy like Benford, I mean, he's gone from, you know, let's see what the kid has to possible starter. Right. So that always happens. But they knew what this roster was when it came in. Now there are some spots at the end, but, Jen, I think what people always have to keep in mind is the 53 man roster used to be almost like a set thing, like you made it. It is so fluid now. It's fluid. Especially week one, week two, when injuries coming from the off season impact it and all. So. But in total, I look at it and go, we could have predicted 50 of the 53 coming in. It's just a matter of some of these last things. And I think they've shown their hand a little bit in what they've done in the preseason and what we've seen at camp.
- [03:21]
C
Yeah, I know that everybody is always, every year we talk about, is it six or seven wide receivers? Like, I think that's the one that we always talk about. And yeah, you know, oh, Isaiah Hodgins has played his way onto this team. Is. Is one of the big narratives that have come out of training camp and, and obviously we're recording this on Thursday. They play their preseason finale on Friday, and Hodgins has a chance, I think, to have a big performance and play his way onto it. But right now I see him on the, the odd man out. So I think that's one of the ones where like, oh, like, this guy's so good. How could they let this guy go? And I think Bill's fans just think about Buffalo and I go, you watch Hard Knocks, you watch anything else, you, you follow your team. There's always that guy that's the sixth or seventh wide receiver that everybody goes, oh, I love this guy. He's got to make the roster. And usually he doesn't. And for one reason or another. But I agree with Mike that nothing really. I'm not sitting there going, wow, could that guy get cut or this guy get moved on. It's the one that we've talked about is, is the tight end two competition, which that could be maybe the one that, that excites me the most or has my. Has piqued my interest the most. And we look, we've talked about it on a lot of our post practice recaps. You can find on the Buffalo plus YouTube channel of Howard hasn't done much, but I don't think that there's a tight End two on this team that is good enough to keep a guy like Crowder or Shakir off. Like if you're only going to. Yeah, if it's the thought of running two tight ends or putting another wide receiver out there and just having knocks, it's get the other wide receiver out there. Because neither of those guys are, are it?
- [04:54]
B
I will say, like, the interesting thing obviously with Howard is just the, the dead money and the cap hit that would kind of come with that. And because the Bills did pay him and all that. Mike, do you think that muddy's the water a little bit? Because you know, you have an investment in a guy but he just, I mean, playing late in fourth quarter quarter preseason games, like, that's obviously not a good sign for where the Heat the Bills believe he is.
- [05:17]
A
Here's the reality is the money is in Brandon Bean's head because he, he paid it already. Right. It's going to be a dead cap hit if they were to get rid of him or even deal him because of the guaranteed money. But at the same time it's already, that part is already done. Like he can't just say, hm, well, well, I'm going to, I'm going to make this move. You know, when they cut LeSean McCoy, the majority of his dead cap money was gone in terms of his guaranteed money and they moved on from him. And that was a bigger deal. Lashawn had been such a valuable player for them for the few years, but there's certain times when they make those moves. I think we've said, like, look, it depends on what they think at the other positions at tight end and are they going to lose a guy that they really want to keep and is the difference that much bigger? Because when you get down to this point, this is when Dan. I will say the cap is real. It's real because they, they are decisions they have to make to be under. In terms of the start of the regular season and if it's not, if it's not a corresponding move to go with it. Redoing another deal. Redoing another deal. They've picked up a little bit of money, but they got to save some of that money for the regular season if they need to make a move. So you made the point, like how different are the moves? How much are they concerned about losing another guy? If it was strictly football, and it rarely is, I think he'd be gone. But it's not strictly football.
- [06:44]
C
So literally we're recording this podcast at 11 o' clock and this just happened 15 minutes ago. Tom Pelissero reporting that the Bills are re restructuring Dion Dawkins contract, converting most of his salary into a signing bonus to clear over 5.6 million in cap space, per source. So that's Pelos reporting. And Bean had said that on Tuesday that there would be some restructuring to the contract. So we're here sitting here talking about money and freeing up space and could they eat that money from O.J. howard? Like I said, that's part of it. Mike, you're right. Again, like this. We're two for two on agreeing that, like, you can't go back and redo O.J. howard's contract as much as you may want to, but you can make other moves to lessen the blow.
- [07:28]
A
Yeah.
- [07:28]
C
Of. Of the move.
- [07:29]
A
And these moves make sense. You've already paid these guys. It's in bonus structure or in salary structures.
- [07:35]
C
It's just Terry cutting the check.
- [07:36]
A
Yeah. And it's. Dion is playing. He's on the roster. He's your starting left tackle. And it makes sense. The player gets the money up front and you move forward on it. So it's a smart move. It's like you've got these in your pocket a little bit, you sign those deals, you wait to see where he is coming into that year, and then you pounce by shifting the money.
- [07:56]
B
Yeah.
- [07:56]
A
And I'm going to throw this out there, Janet, because I know we're going to talk about the defensive backfield, but again, if they're doing anything for Poyer and I keep bringing this up, it frees up some more money if they need to do that for this year.
- [08:09]
B
Yeah, no, I. That's another great point, too. I want to talk about that. Those wide receivers, though, Isaiah Hodgins, I feel like he's kind of become the training camp darling that, you know, this year I feel like we didn't really have as many as maybe years past. But. But, Dan, in your eyes, I feel like it's Kumaro, Isaiah Hodgins going to head to head. Obviously, Kumaro has been with the team longer. He's had more substantial time in terms of special teams and what he does there. What would. Who would you give the advantage to in terms of making this initial roster?
- [08:40]
C
Yeah, I think Hodgins has actually been there longer. They drafted him in 2020. They brought in Kumaro at some point during the 2022 season. I think that's part of that. I know what you're saying. Kumaro has played. Yeah, he's played more. Sorry, I didn't Mean to. You're rolling your eyes at me like, shut up, Dan.
- [08:59]
B
Well, I. Yes. Well, Isaiah Hodgins, for people that don't know, was drafted in 2020 and then injured himself. So he was out the entirety of the season. The Bills brought him back, and then he was essentially on the practice squad. He's made his NFL debut. But in terms of playing time, Jake Kumaro, even though he wasn't drafted by Buffalo, has had substantially more time on the field, specifically playing special teams.
- [09:20]
C
Yeah, and like I said, we always think about, like, oh, somebody is like, you know, I. I always remembered it was like, oh, somebody's going to pick up Brandon Riley. Like, there's no way you can sneak Brandon Riley, Duke Williams. Why. Why is, you know, you got to get him off the practice squad before somebody takes him. It's like teams already have the guys that they want or already are on their radar. They. They could have made a move or are waiting to see. So while. While I agree that Hodgins has had his very strong camp, I still don't think it's enough to put him over the top of reliability, dependability. If Jake Kumaro, like Mike, always talks about it, oh, just put him on the practice squad. You can't just put him right on your practice watch. You have to cut the person and you risk them. That player being in the free agent pool that, like, you always talked about it, it's like 1500 players get released. It is.
- [10:10]
A
But a guy like. You're right. But a guy like Jay Kumaro, let's be honest, we all know the truth is he goes to Green Bay. I mean, Rogers is right now. Ayahuasca time. And.
- [10:21]
C
Yeah.
- [10:21]
A
You know, and then he'll be ready to go. But I think it also is. This is where. This is where I think Brandon Beans usually has one eye on the future and one eye on the present. Maybe an eye and a half on the present. It's an eye and 9, 10 on the present. This, this year. Like, I like Isaiah Hodgins. I think he has talent. I think if they could bring him back on the practice squad, which I think would happen. They do that. I don't know, but they, they, they would. I think they would. If that's a. That's another guy that knows their system. They could bring him back on the practice squad.
- [10:55]
B
I just feel like he'd be claimed during waivers.
- [10:57]
A
No.
- [10:58]
B
Really? You don't think Dable and them would. Would go after.
- [11:01]
A
Well, they've lost some respect. That is an interesting one.
- [11:04]
C
That's A good point.
- [11:05]
A
And by the way, they've also lost a T. Like, they've had some injury issues. And if you're the Giants and you need guys in a hurry, come on, they know the roster. They know those guys. So. That's a good point, Jenna. That is a good point because.
- [11:19]
C
Very good point.
- [11:20]
A
They've lost a couple of. They've. They've had some tough, tough injuries. And if you're going to look, the Bills did it with Carolina. Right. You know, and it. Sometimes it helps because those guys can be a little more up to speed and you take a flyer on a guy. So. Yeah, that's a, That's a good one. Let's. Well, let's see where we are next Monday.
- [11:37]
C
But also, I'm sorry, if Isaiah Hodgins goes to the Giants. Good for him. Like, yeah, like, good for Hodgins. And I really don't think it's any skin off the Bill's teeth. And also, it's always like when people like, oh, look at all this depth. Look at all these things. Like if the sixth wide receiver on the Bills is playing any meaningful time, the Bill season has gone completely off the rails.
- [12:05]
A
Yeah.
- [12:06]
C
Like, Isaiah Hodgins obviously doesn't make or break this team and where they're at. So if, if another team does want to put him on his 50, their 53 man roster, go for it.
- [12:15]
A
Yeah, I think the difference of players in terms of that depth and I just, maybe I'm just overstating it. Even though we haven't seen the guy play a game yet, but I still think there's a place where Khalil Shakira, who's probably the fifth receiver, has a role. And you said it, Dan. More of the Gabe Davis rookie role that you're like, wow, this kid can play. I think that's there. Plus he's in year one, Jenna. He's year one.
- [12:39]
B
Yeah.
- [12:39]
A
And Hodgins is three years in and so those decisions get sped up. But good for him to show a lot more and to play like a guy who could be on the roster, but, you know, again, there he could have something else in mind for that last spot. I don't think so. But that's the one thing as deep as his roster is. There's also guys the Bills have their eye on on other rosters where teams have a certain guy that fits what they want. I'm not saying a wide receiver, but at other positions, maybe veteran corner that they've got their eye on, that they're waiting to see what Happens.
- [13:15]
B
Well, even Brandon Beam was asked about, you know, what he weighs, and he talked about how, like, those special team reps and the accountability there, that matters to them. And obviously Kumaro has carved out a role for himself there. And I mean, we. We talk about special teams kind of not as much as the offense and defense, obviously, but to get where the Bills want to go like that is a piece of this game, and it's something that the Bills need some dependability on.
- [13:39]
A
Yeah. And one last thing. We have to apologize to Kumaro because I think we did a pod earlier where we asked about best hair on the team, and I went with the tight ends and all. I. I think Kumaro's just in that.
- [13:51]
C
Yep.
- [13:52]
A
Spot. No, I don't know.
- [13:55]
C
Jenna's over his hair.
- [13:56]
A
Really?
- [13:57]
B
It's a little, like, dirty kind. I don't know. Like, I feel like there's no. You gotta. You gotta wash it every day because you're just sweating so much. I don't know.
- [14:07]
A
Well, okay. I just have, you know, that type of envy all the time and I just really, you know.
- [14:20]
B
Yeah, no, you'll get there.
- [14:21]
A
Yeah. As I get older, you're just going in the reverse.
- [14:25]
B
All right, let's talk about the secondary. Mike, you mentioned it earlier because we're in a weird spot. Obviously. The opener is less than two weeks away. Like, I mean, we're coming up on it. Trey White hasn't even been dressed in the uniform yet. He hasn't been out on the practice field in terms of that. Jordan Poyer, you know, Brandon being talked about him. If he were during the regular season, he would already be playing. But again, that's a guy that hasn't been out there like a Hyde taking some vet days. And then you have the corner situation. Yeah, I mean, it's just a weird spot to be in. And I feel like with. With so much going into the season, that has been something to watch for in ways that we haven't had to worry about in years past.
- [15:05]
A
No, I'm. I'm feeling good about the safeties. You know, they'll be fine. Hyde look good. Poyer look, he's doing a little bit more practice. He's going to be back soon. He'll be ready. You know, Dane Jackson has played really solid. I think they have established him. And while. And I for the long term, I love what we've seen out of the two rookies. You know, Elam looks like he's physically looks like the guy, though. There's going to be growing pains and we've certainly all been impressed by Christian Benford, but I don't think. And I got to check on this. I don't think Cooper cup is worried about his opening matchup. Right. He's not sitting there going, damn, these rookies are tough. I don't think I can beat them. You know, I mean, that's the real thing. Starting out the year. It's like it's Cooper cup and the Rams that you're playing. So I love what this means for the Bills going forward, but Trey's not playing in that game. He's just not. We know that. And maybe not playing for the first four. So those rookies are getting a ton of snaps against the super bowl champs in the first game. So it's a concern going in.
- [16:17]
C
Can I get the credit that I deserve from you two for Dane Jackson?
- [16:23]
A
Yeah, go ahead.
- [16:24]
B
Wait, what?
- [16:27]
C
Okay. What do you mean? It was like, oh, Dane, like, no chance. No chance. Like they drafted. I said they love no chance.
- [16:35]
A
Timeout. Timeout. That was on the assumption that Trey was back and ready to go. And I said, elam's going to be on the other side. But Trey's not back. He's not ready. So Dane's the grizzled vet out there.
- [16:47]
C
I. Dane has for as good as Elam and Benford have looked. Elam more consistent. I think Benford's flashed a little more. Dain has outplayed them at training camp and one on ones in. In everything I. He is. He has looked like a starting corner in the NFL, which is what I tried to stress to you guys that he did for six weeks at the end of last season. But he. He looks out. And I think a bunch of people are kind of going back and forth with what we heard about Brandon Bean saying about Trey White. The one thing that stood out, we all kind of perked up and it went over my head at the beginning. But Brandon Bean, yeah, says things purposefully, but he doesn't give you too much. But to drop the tidbit that Trey White got this surgery done by not a team doctor is peculiar to me. Like. Like the fact that. That he pointed it out made it seem like, hey, we have to jump through a couple more hoops because that team has to sign off on them. Our doctors have to sign off on them. They. They're. They. He pretty much said he's trying to buy time, run out the clock before making a decision on Puppy. To me, that doesn't. I think a bunch of people are going, oh, no. That could be Seven games. Oh, no. Like, he's not. He's over. I think it's two. Two and a half games. I think the training staff's trying to figure out when will he be back? Because if. If they can say he'll be back by week three, you don't put him on the pup. But if they say, hey, we're hoping he's back by week four, I think he goes on pup. So I, I think right now you're gonna miss Trey White for the first four games of the season.
- [18:23]
B
I agree. I think also I have. I have qualms about you saying that you want to, you know, relish in this Dane Jackson bit. My thing is, Dane Jackson is. Yeah, I think he played very well at the end of last season. But you right now, is he ahead of the rookies? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. But that, to me is not shocking at all. Like, the, The. The ceiling for Dane Jackson looks different to me than Kairi Elam. I think that's, you know, that is important. Where the Bills drafted him and the talent that they expect out of him and the potential they see in him. So for him to be farther behind Dane Jackson, like, yeah, that makes. Mike, am I wrong?
- [19:04]
A
No, you're not wrong, Janet.
- [19:05]
B
I don't think that's outrageous to be, like. While you're on the middle of the system for.
- [19:08]
A
Right. Yeah, yeah. While you're in the middle of your victory lap. Have you noticed how Gabe Davis has looked like the best receiver on the field?
- [19:18]
C
I never rooted against Gabe Davis. I want that on the record as well. To me, Dane Jackson has proven that he's. I don't know, like, right. Like, I guess we have to see what Elam and Benford turn into. But I'm just saying, like, we kept saying, oh, like, you got to sign a guy to replace Levi. You got to. And all of a sudden it's like, the guy is there, just knows, just does his thing, works, plays well, nothing flashy like Levi. And all of a sudden it is. I'm just saying, like, no, Dan, you're right. So much of that Levi all over him.
- [19:51]
A
You're right.
- [19:52]
C
And that's a positive.
- [19:54]
A
Yeah, you're right. I would just say. And what he's done up to this point is kept them out of the veteran free agent market.
- [20:01]
C
Yep.
- [20:02]
A
And think about that. Like, they got the two rookies. I think Benford's had a lot to do with that. They don't want it because. Because he's been better than they expected. Trey's delayed return, like, There's a lot of signs that you would say they're going to bring in a veteran now. I still, I absolutely believe we could see that after the cuts, like there's a veteran coming in because again, you know, Leslie said it, man, those rookies going to have the big bullseye on them and you don't know how they're going to react. They seem both be really cool and talented but that's a whole nother world they're stepping into. So a guy who's been there, played in that I could see being on the roster, I could see them making that move or at least being ready.
- [20:44]
C
Hey, the one thing I just would say, like if we could, you know, have our crystal ball or go back in time, if the Bills were to have signed Levi and you could go into this season with Levi and Dane, starting with the belief that Kair becomes a top two corner and Trey comes back. Imagine having Dane be your fourth corner. Yeah, like you talk about depth and again we, you know, we, we. I've said how the blocking tight end is obsolete when we've talked about this tight end to, you know, competition. You really can't have too many corners in the NFL the way that the offense has become teams going 4 and 5 wide, you really can't have enough corners and no you can't. Benford being their fourth corner right now, not bad. Yeah, but imagine if it was a guy that had NFL experience. It's devil's advocate because we always look back at that Levi contract and go, wasn't that much but they moved on.
- [21:42]
B
It's interesting though because what comes to mind for me is like you can't pay everyone.
- [21:48]
C
Yes you can.
- [21:49]
A
I feel like you could have paid him.
- [21:51]
B
I feel like you, you could have paid him. And in hindsight maybe they decide that they should have. But at the same point, I don't know, I think they said they probably were like, yeah, you know, we don't want to pay him. And what does that say about them not wanting to pay him?
- [22:06]
A
You're right because they were looking saying we're drafting a corner and I believe the whole off season they believe Trey would be back. I really do. I think that's the way they approached it. Now they like Benford, but they took him the 180th overall. They took an earlier pick and they didn't go into the free agent market. They really didn't. But. But again, Trey's not back and it might be four games and I think they're going to want another guy on the roster. I really do think they are. And by the way, you know, I heard Steve Tasker talking the other day and he. And he referred to the Bill's front six, which he's right because they. It is a front six. Sometimes it's just natural we say front seven. Yeah, it's front six. They play two linebackers because Taron Johnson plays almost every snap. And we talked to him and did a story with him and it's almost like he's so good at what he does. He has been the reliable guy just based on some injuries and the other guys being rookies. And it's like there's Taren, he's out there, one of the best slot guys in the league and he played 85% of the snaps last year. They play nickel all the time. So I always say about having those two safeties is that comfort zone. Having Taryn Johnson out there helps everybody because of how well he's played and.
- [23:19]
B
The way you did the story, I really liked because it was like he's the least talked about, maybe one of the most important pieces, underrated pieces of that Bill's defense. And it's so true because I feel like we. I mean, I even forgot to mention him out there. You know what I mean? But he's a guy that's. I mean, I think of that play in the Ravens game, the playoff game, just like some of the plays that he's been able to do and his ability to, to stay on the field in terms of other areas that concern you on this team. As we start to get closer to week one and enter the regular season, Dan, is there anything else that comes to mind for you?
- [23:54]
C
Maybe just like. And you know, just beating a dead horse here. But it maybe just a little bit of the tight end because if something were to happen to Dawson Knox, it's just they don't have a starting caliber NFL tight end. Yeah, I think Tommy Sweeney's looked fine. I think they like Quentin Morris. Can Reggie Gilliam just slide in to do some of the things that Knox does? Maybe, but nobody can improve the passing game. And we saw how much Knox has benefited since Diggs has been there and has become that middle of a middle of the field guy. So I guess that'd be my only concern because I would not feel good about Sweeney, Howard or Morris playing any significant time if, you know, we know injuries happen if something were to happen to Dawson Knox.
- [24:43]
A
Yeah, I think Dan's right about that. You know, it's funny.
- [24:47]
B
We'll give you that.
- [24:48]
A
Well, a brief aside here, you know, we were at practice, and I'm watching Dawson. You just feel so much for the guy, and you see him at practice, and I, you know, just saw his teammates just occasionally come up to him, tap him on the helmet, like. And I'm thinking, man, this guy's got to stand out there and play. Putting on a football uniform, you know, he lost a close family member who was a football player, who'd be in camp, who'd be playing, and you just sort of jump right back into playing. And while I think it's a big positive for him to be around his. He is beloved on that team. You can just tell he's just a cool guy and he's friendly and all those things that go with him. And I just, you know, just as a person, I just feel for him, and I. And he's got. He's got to ramp up. And while it's the positives of football, you know, he's not going to. I don't think he's playing. He's not going to play. He got limited, obviously, very limited in play. You know, he's just played in practice and all. Not that I'm not making an excuse for him. He's a tough guy, and he's going to play and he's going to play. Great for him. But just as a person, I just, like all of you guys, I just felt for him, watching him, thinking, man, you're stepping right back out there in the field trying to do this job, and all of us have been through it in our own way. It's not easy to just, you know, compartmentalize and go play. That's got to be tough.
- [26:10]
B
It's really hard. It's heartbreaking. Yeah, definitely.
- [26:14]
A
But he's got that support. He definitely.
- [26:16]
B
I would say that. I think that has probably been huge for him, if I would imagine, just having that relationship. And like you said, I mean, he is beloved by his teammates and having that support system there and. And just. I think maybe the escape of being on the field might help in. In the interim as well. Just having something kind of. That will take your mind off of what's going on, because obviously, it's really a challenging. I mean, unbelievable and heartbreaking situation. But as. As we do look forward towards this year. I mean, there is so much riding on this Bills team and what's expected of them still the super bowl favorites, all of those things. And I know. I mean, we talk so much about the pressure on Sean McDermott, and he was on Pardon my take. And he was great, and he was fantastic in the way he handled that interview. But I mean, Josh Allen, where he's at in his career, the rise that he's had, what's expected of this team, like, there's, there's a lot of pressure on him. And I had a Bills fan asked me, they're like, what would constitute a disappointing season? And I took pause because I was like, there's way more that's disappointing as opposed to a impressive season in my eyes.
- [27:32]
A
Yeah, they've. They've set the bar so high. And Josh has. And if you think about the way he played in the playoffs was spectacular. I think that's the best football he's ever played. Those combine, those two games. He's had some great games down the stretch. He was incredible. And then those two games. But you're the quarterback and it's unfair. I mean, look, you know, Joe Burrow made some tough throws and good plays. He did not play as well as Josh Allen in the playoffs. Not, not even really close yet. Joe Burrow got a team to the Super Bowl. You know, Matthew Stafford has had this long career and he's been a really good player on bad teams and he got that Rams team in. But, you know, Aaron Donald made plays defensively and so did Von Miller. And you know, they, they, they got some fortunate breaks in those games. He won the Super Bowl. He's always a Super bowl winner. It falls on the quarterbacks. And as great as Josh has been, if they don't get there this year, now you go. And especially with Mahomes and the Chiefs, we know it's unfair, but Dan, it's Mahomes against Allen in the playoffs. No matter how you look at it, Mahomes has been there. He's gotten a Super bowl. He's won. The Chiefs have ended the bill season the last two years. Not on Josh, especially last year. But it falls on the quarterback. It always does. This is the way they're judged. So he's handled everything great. But I think there's a ton of pressure on him this year. He's got to be great.
- [29:05]
C
Could I play devil's advocate such a good role? Yeah. I play it well because Josh is so likable.
- [29:15]
A
Yeah.
- [29:15]
C
Do you think he gets a little bit more of a pass if this team doesn't win a Super Bowl? That at least this year, that you have said before coming into this season, Mike, that Sean McDermott has more pressure on him that than anybody in Buffalo. And I've made the argument That I think Ken Dorsey has the most pressure on him because Ken Dorsey doesn't have the leeway of a new guy in the building. He has been in the building. He is expected to keep the Bills offense at its high powered ability. So if I'm Josh, if I'm outsiders, I, I, I may be looking and going and maybe this is a bad argument or maybe it's a bad take, but just also like knowing what would happen, you're kind of going to be looking at what happens with the Giants and just wondering where does Dorsey take this offense? I guess is my thing that like, look, Leslie Frazier is, you know, proven that he can coach a top, you know, one of the best defenses in the league. Sean McDermott has been out coached at times, which happens to everybody. He's, he's out coached Belichick, Belichick's out coached him. He, he screwed up the last 13 seconds. We're over that. But I just don't know if Josh, while he has an immense amount of pressure, I don't know if it's the most in my opinion in the building.
- [30:45]
B
I feel like internally I could see why you would feel like Ken Dorsey has so much pressure. Like I, I get that, I totally do because he's taking over these big shoes that he has to fill and like you said, he doesn't have the excuse of not knowing the what, what's been going on for the last couple of seasons. But I think externally, fan base wise, all that pressure will fall on Josh or, sorry, will not fall on Josh Allen, but it will fall on Sean McDermott. But I always like the quarterback does like you said, Mike, I mean it was last year it was easy to not blame Josh because it wasn't Josh's fault. Like he did everything he could have to help that team win the game and they came up short. I think it depends on what happens this season in terms of the way it ends. How, how does it end? Is it because the offense isn't effective? Then yeah, you know, Josh Allen is going to be to, to blame, but also Ken Dorsey will share in a piece of that as well. So I feel like it's, it's, however the season is kind of written but at the same point, I mean Josh, I think Josh will always have pressure because of the position he plays. But I think it's also who he is to put that much on his, on his shoulders.
- [31:54]
A
Yeah. So externally the quarterback, you know, this may seem unfair but you know, when you're talking about first take and all those Shows the national stuff. It's the quarterbacks. It's always about the quarterbacks, you know, and you're going to see when the Bills play the Chiefs, when we go out there in October, can they get by the Chiefs? What's that?
- [32:19]
B
But is that because it's lazy and.
- [32:20]
A
Easy, it's big picture and it is the way they're judged. It's the way the quarterbacks are judged.
- [32:27]
C
And so, so hard to critique.
- [32:29]
A
Josh in Buffalo, I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm saying internally, in Buffalo, pressure, no doubt. Number one, Sean McDermott. Ken Dorsey will get some. It's Sean McDermott, and he gets it. I don't know what Leslie did wrong. I don't know what they did on special teams in the 13 seconds. Like, we don't know for sure about all that. Doesn't matter. It goes on Sean. And as great as Josh is now, you know, they could be great this year. Come down in a playoff game and he throws a pick after throwing for 380 yards in a game. And they don't win like that can. He could be fantastic. And it goes on the quarterback. It just does probably more. You know, Brady gets all the credit for all the super bowl wins and the super bowl losses and, you know, some of those games. He wasn't the most important player on the field. You know, the Giants defense won that. Those Super Bowls, they were great. Eli got named mvp. Like, this is the world we live in. And Josh is in that world. That's the reason I'm saying this. We see him all the time. We know how great the guy's been. We know he's carried the franchise. But when it comes down to it, quarterbacks are judged on the Super Bowls, the rings, and he's in that position now where they're the favorite coming in. Yeah, McDermott. Yep. And he deserves it. But. And you're right about Dorsey, because I don't even know if it's going to be as much about how the Giants are. That's not a great roster. And we know Dable is smart and he'll eventually get it figured out there, but it's the day ball you'll miss in Buffalo. Not necessarily what he's doing with the Giants. Just like it's the Cole Beasley of two years ago that you could miss on the field now. Not necessarily the guy now who's trying to find a spot. So that's making that analogy to it. But I think there's pressure all around. And you're right. The unfair Stephen A. Smith takes. Yeah, but that's what creates the perception around the country.
- [34:25]
C
I just wonder if Josh has a shield on him because he's so likable because of his little bit that if things go south it's. And, and you're, you're partly right too, Mike. Josh can throw for 380 yards and three touchdowns and run one in. And if they lose 42 to 35, that ain't on, then it's not on Josh. That's going to be on everybody else. But so I wonder where that, where that fine line is, is because we've talked about how universally liked Josh is in that rare air where he is universally liked. Like even Mahomes, like when they lost it was like, well, he had a bad game but like there it took a little bit of time before Holmes became unlikable for him to have a bad game and go have defenses figured him out. And it's like, nope, he just had a bad game. Like nobody's figured that out yet. So that's where I'm just, I feel like. And you're right, it is the low hanging fruit to say Josh Allen doesn't have a Super bowl and he's got to get him there. I'm looking at, trying to look at it from 10,000ft above saying Dorsey and McDermott have more on the line this year.
- [35:35]
A
Yeah. From an internal. But Jenna, it is funny to Dan's point. That Chiefs game is the epitome of how much more could you expect out of a quarterback.
- [35:46]
C
Yeah, I mean he scores Tampa Bay.
- [35:50]
A
With a minute to go. Yeah, he scores with 13 seconds to go. It's like, what if he had three seconds left? Maybe he scores again. Like who knows with Josh? I mean he was that good to the point where they changed the freaking rules because they're like, everybody knows Josh would have taken him down for a touchdown at the end. But sometimes that stuff gets lost a little bit too it long term when it's like, but they lost to the Chiefs. They've beaten them the last two years. You know, Mahomes has beaten Allen. It's unfair, but it's the weight that a quarterback takes. That's the only point I'm making with that. And the guy's been everything spectacular, but that's the next step he's got to take.
- [36:31]
B
Yeah, I mean I think all of that is fair because history remembers the winners and if you didn't have enough to win, then you're a loser essentially. But that being said, Allen has done everything like you said, that has been asked of him and more than that. So it depends on how the season goes.
- [36:48]
A
Yep.
- [36:48]
B
Obviously there's, like we've talked about. I mean, there's pressure on everyone in that locker room because what this team is supposed to do.
- [36:55]
A
How about they just win the super bowl and then it all goes away?
- [36:57]
B
That seems like the easiest option, right?
- [36:59]
A
Yeah.
- [37:00]
C
Sounds like a good idea. Let's just do it.
- [37:02]
B
Let's just do it. Come on. No, I mean, I think it brings up just the point of, you know, as we enter the season, because, you know, the Bill's schedule is tough too. And I mean, with the availability of Trey White, like, there's just a lot of question marks going in. I mean, Dan, what is the line for the Bills? What's their win total?
- [37:21]
C
11 and a half.
- [37:23]
B
Yeah. What do you make of that?
- [37:26]
C
I would probably take the under. I think maybe it's 11. I think, you know, you're looking at an 11 and seven season possibly. I'm not saying they couldn't go over that. To me. It's also Warren Sharp pointed out there's two things that you try and look at analytically, whether they're anomalies or trends moving forward. The Bills went from having the second easiest schedule last year to the second toughest schedule this year. That's one of them. So you can sit there and say, oh, like, like, buckle up. The Bills also went 06 in one score games. I don't think that happens again, that they lose every single one score game. So I think those things can balance each other out. As I say that now, I say take the over. It's. There's still so much to be said. I was also the person. Here's another thing. We're talking about this two weeks away from the, the, the Rams game. I have been loving on the over of that total game. 54 and a half since it came out. I now think I love the under. Like, like this is. And that's partly training Cam bias. It's partly seeing the Bill's defense dominate really well and not the offense that we've, you know, wanted to see at times. So, yeah, I don't know. I'm all over the place.
- [38:41]
A
You are all over the place. So there's 17 games. How many wins? Because you gave him 18 games.
- [38:47]
C
I went 11 and seven, which didn't make sense.
- [38:50]
B
I was, I was doing the math. I was like, oh, Yep.
- [38:57]
C
I think 12. 12.
- [38:59]
B
I think that that's about where I see them.
- [39:01]
A
Yeah.
- [39:02]
B
I just think also The AFC is so tough this year. Like, it's going to be.
- [39:06]
C
Remember when the Bills lost in Jacksonville?
- [39:08]
B
I was. I was actually thinking about it. When you talk about anomalies on a.
- [39:11]
A
Season, I still think they're going to win that game. I still believe they're going to win. They lost to that clown Urban Meyer. I mean, seriously. No kidding.
- [39:23]
C
Chili's the best place to eat in Jacksonville, actually.
- [39:26]
A
Exactly. Number one restaurant, an Oasis. Jenna, I can't get the number 13 out of my head. It's always been a good number for me. I've been a channel 13 forever. I was born on the 13th. It's a lucky number. And that, that's going to be early on is where we're going to see if we're going to get to 12 or 13 because they've got it tough in the beginning, but I think they're going to be ready from the start. A little worried again about the secondary, but they got a lot going for them. They got Von Miller and Josh Allen and Stefan Diggs and all those guys taking the field. So I'm going to go 13 and 4. I'm going to stick with it. I got 13 wins.
- [40:02]
B
Okay. All right.
- [40:04]
A
And you guys lowly down at 12. Isn't that amazing? I mean, we're just sort of tossing out 12 and 5 and 13 and 4 when it's. It is tough schedule, but yeah, gonna be fun.
- [40:14]
B
We shall see. And we have a lot of great stuff coming up. Obviously, the Bill's getting ready for the NFL opener Thursday night in la. Mike and I will be there. Mike, why don't you tell them a little bit? Because we have something special.
- [40:26]
A
We'll be in LA that Wednesday, so that Wednesday night, the night before the game. Because we know you guys got a lot of stuff going on leading right up to the game, 7:30 to 8. The three of us will be on. Jen and I will be out in la. Preview of the season, preview of the game. We're hoping to take a little tour of the stadium so far, which is, you know, a spectacular place that the game's going to be played. And I know you've seen it on tv, but we'll get some inside stuff, so keep that in mind. We'll be promoting it Wednesday, September 7th, starting at 7:30.
- [40:58]
B
Yes. And you can watch it live on the Buffalo Plus YouTube channel. And be sure to, like, comment and subscribe to The Buffalo Boss YouTube channel. And if you're listening to this audio podcast, please be sure to subscribe there. Leave a review as well. That always helps. And we will. We do want to mention, moving forward, if you're not already subscribed to the audio podcast, subscribe, because we're going to be doing a post game breakdown that's going to be unique. It's going to be different from what we put on the Buffalo plus YouTube channel. So we just want to have people have a heads up about that.
- [41:29]
C
It'll be out Monday mornings after. Okay. The day. It'll be out the morning after the game. We're gonna. Whoever goes to the game, we're gonna just do an instant reaction right then and there, our thoughts on the game. So that'll be. That'll be cool to give you guys something new that we haven't done before.
- [41:48]
A
And that will be filled with hot takes.
- [41:51]
B
Yes, hot takes.
- [41:53]
A
Hot takes.
- [41:54]
B
Flamin. Hot. Dan Fates loves the hot.
- [41:59]
A
I'm joining him. It's going to be. That's right after the game. That is. That is, you know.
- [42:05]
B
Yeah, that's reactionary central.
- [42:07]
A
That's.
- [42:08]
B
Well, I shouldn't say that, though, because we are. Mike and I are measured. I can't say the same. I can't always.
- [42:16]
A
Hey, dan shot an 84 today. Leave him alone. That's right.
- [42:20]
B
Feeling good. Started the day with a birdie. All right, thank you for joining us. For Mike and Dan, I am Jenna. Please be sure to, like, comment, subscribe. Thank you for listening to the Buffalo plus podcast, presented by Connors and Ferris. We'll catch you next time here on Buffalo Plus.