Buffalo Plus Podcast: "Does Josh Allen Need to Change for Buffalo Bills to Succeed?"

Date: September 15, 2023
Hosts: Mike Catalana, Jenna Cottrell, Dan Fetes

Overview

This episode dives deep into the Buffalo Bills’ troubling Monday night loss to the New York Jets, focusing on Josh Allen’s four-turnover performance. The team debates whether Allen needs to fundamentally change his style for the Bills to succeed, who (or what) is responsible for the ongoing issues, and whether adjustments from coaching or a supporting cast can drive needed improvement. With the Raiders game looming, the panel also discusses Ken Dorsey's offensive approach and what needs to happen going forward.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Overreaction vs. Real Issues (00:50–01:43)

• Mike urges against overreacting to a single game but notes that Allen’s mistakes are becoming too frequent to ignore.
  • “You can't overreact to week one... But on Monday night, a lot more was on Josh than I've seen in the past... I think it's a bit of a tipping point for him.” (01:15–01:43)

2. The Allen Problem: Recklessness or Wiring? (01:43–05:36)

• Dan points out Allen’s “arm arrogance”—the very trait that fuels both his best and worst plays.
  • Allen himself described it as a "double-edged sword": “What makes Josh great also makes Josh Monday night... it's year six. I know these things, I have to be able to do them now.” (02:35–03:25)
• Jenna agrees the recklessness isn’t new, and “what once felt risky is now just reckless.” (04:41–05:36)

3. Coaching, Growth, and Accountability (05:36–09:07)

• Is this a coaching problem or entirely on Allen?
  • Mike: “You gotta understand circumstances. You have to understand the game… That’s not coaching. That is the guy being aware of circumstances.” (06:29–07:39)
  • Jenna: “That’s absolving Josh from the fact that he’s a grown man and has been in this league for so long.” (07:56–08:12)

4. Will Allen Ever Really Change? (09:07–15:56)

• The group is divided on Allen’s ability to evolve.
  • Mike believes this game hit Allen harder, possibly spurring change.
  • Dan argues these games aren’t new; Allen has “lived and died” playing this way throughout his career.
    • “This is who Josh Allen is, guys.” (12:25–12:28)
    • “What makes him a star makes him the butt of a lot of jokes at the same time… We have seen this before.” (19:09–20:07)
• Jenna offers cautious optimism: maybe it takes hitting rock bottom for change to click. (16:07–16:59)

5. How Bad Was Monday Night? (17:29–19:09)

• Mike: “I think you could make an argument that was probably the worst game he’s played in the NFL.” (18:29–18:38)
• Dan: “But Josh said it best. It’s the double-edged sword... When he's bad, he's really, really bad.” (15:08–15:56)

6. Role of Coaching Staff & Organizational Change (24:04–25:18)

• Dan: “Josh can evolve, but he needs to have real change around him… drastic change if things don't get better and get better quickly.” (24:07–25:18)
• Mike: “In the pecking order of this franchise, it's Josh Allen above Brandon Bean, Sean McDermott, Ken Dorsey, everybody... At some point, Josh is going to be the last man standing in this organization.” (25:18–25:54)

7. Offensive Structure & Ken Dorsey’s Role (28:13–35:19)

• The crew discusses new personnel groupings (12 personnel, Dalton Kincaid) and the early signs from Ken Dorsey’s play calling:
  • Mike: “I like the 12 personnel. I like Kincaid on the field. I like the pace that they had early… I think Kincaid is going to be a more and more valuable pass catcher in this offense.” (28:48–34:18)
  • Dan: “It is very tough to dink and dunk your way all the way down the field… There needs to be chunk plays.” (32:54–33:56)
  • Jenna still wants a bigger sample size to properly judge Dorsey’s approach. (34:18–34:21)

8. Supporting Cast: Is There Enough? (35:23–37:34)

• Sean McDermott has publicly said they need someone to step up alongside Stefon Diggs. The offense seems “still just reliant on Josh,” which may reinforce Allen’s hero approach. (35:19–36:51)
• Issues with receivers running the wrong routes and lack of a clear “Robin” to Diggs’ “Batman.”

9. Defensive Bright Spots (38:02–40:56)

• Praise for Greg Rousseau, Leonard Floyd, and the defense’s performance.
• Christian Benford and Matt Milano singled out for effort/intangibles.
  • “He talks sometimes, but like, you gotta pull it out.” (39:23–39:28)

10. Raiders Preview & Urgency to Respond (41:04–43:51)

• The Raiders present real threats (top RB, WR, Maxx Crosby). Bills are heavy favorites but the game carries huge pressure.
• Mike: “Bills need to go figure out a way to win the game… It doesn’t have to look pretty.” (41:38–41:45)
• Dan: “If they lose again, we got issues.” (42:43–43:51)
• Jenna: “If they are in a rock fight with the Raiders at home in the opener… that would feel like rock bottom and rock bottom is where changes will happen.” (42:01–43:52)

Notable Quotes

• “What makes Josh great also makes Josh Monday night is this fact of playing reckless... It's year six. I know these things, I have to be able to do them now.”
  — Dan paraphrasing Allen and his own view, (02:35–03:25)

• “There are times. Look at the Minnesota game last year… It was stupid, but it worked. He's got to be better than that.”
  — Mike (06:43–07:39)

• “Do men change? This is—this is the podcast.”
  — Jenna (08:11–08:12)

• “This is who Josh Allen is, guys.”
  — Dan (12:24–12:28)

• “I think you could make an argument that was probably the worst game he's played in the NFL.”
  — Mike (18:29–18:38)

• “Josh can evolve, but he needs to have real change around him.”
  — Dan (24:07–25:18)

• “At the certain point… the ball's in Josh's hands… it's Josh's call.”
  — Mike (25:54–26:10)

• “For this team to be good, Josh needs to change. He needs to adapt… this team needs for it to click.”
  — Jenna (15:56–16:48)

• “The sky isn't falling but a loss and you should grab an umbrella.”
  — Quoting Matt Bové, via Dan (42:16–42:43)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:50 – Setting the mood: Is Week 1 a fluke or a red flag?
• 02:35–03:25 – “Double-edged sword”/Allen’s arm arrogance.
• 05:36–07:39 – Recklessness vs. awareness and the coaching dilemma.
• 12:24–15:56 – Debate: Will Allen ever really change his approach?
• 17:36–18:38 – Was this Allen’s worst NFL game?
• 24:04–25:18 – Can Allen evolve without organizational change?
• 28:48–34:18 – Reviewing Ken Dorsey’s offense and 12 personnel.
• 35:23–37:34 – Supporting cast woes; need for a true #2 option.
• 38:02–40:56 – Defensive praise and notable performances.
• 41:04–43:51 – Raiders preview and “must win” pressure.

Tone & Memorable Moments

• Engaged, passionate, occasionally exasperated—hosts mix sarcasm and genuine concern.
• Jenna plays the optimistic but realistic “counselor,” challenging the group to hope for change but preparing for more of the same.
• Dan offers tough love and skepticism, repeatedly referencing Allen’s history as proof that “this is who he is.”
• Mike balances realism with cautious hope, believing that Monday’s loss may serve as a true wake-up call for Allen.

Memorable lighthearted bits include a closing story about Dan’s daughter using curse words in perfect context—demonstrating how coaching (at home and on the field) can have unpredictable results.

Conclusion

This episode underscores the tension between Josh Allen’s remarkable talent and his costly habits, asking whether either personal or organizational change can unlock the next level for the Bills. Concern abounds over whether the Bills’ staff and supporting cast can help Allen evolve—or whether fans should brace for another season of “the Josh Allen experience,” full of wild highs and lows.

Discussion Question

Can Josh Allen evolve, or is this just who he is?

Let the debate continue.