Hard Knocks Comes to Rochester: Senior NFL Director Pat Harris Interview + James Cook in NFL Top 100

Summary

Buffalo Plus Podcast Episode Summary

Episode: Hard Knocks Comes to Rochester: Senior NFL Director Pat Harris Interview + James Cook in NFL Top 100
Date: July 8, 2025
Hosts: Mike Catalana, Jenna Cottrell, Dan Fetes
Special Guest: Pat Harris, Senior Director, Hard Knocks (NFL Films), Penfield native

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Overview

This episode dives deep into two main topics:

• Buffalo Bills running back James Cook making the NFL Top 100 list, and
• An exclusive, behind-the-scenes interview with Pat Harris, Senior Director of Hard Knocks, discussing what it means for the Bills and Western New York to take center stage in the acclaimed documentary series.

The conversation provides inside access to both on-field developments and the significance of the Bills’ training camp being featured on Hard Knocks. Pat Harris offers a candid look at storytelling, production logistics, and the authentic Western New York flavor he aims to capture.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. James Cook Named to NFL Top 100 (03:36—07:49)

• Recognition for Cook: Both hosts applaud Cook’s ranking at #89.
  • “Making the top 100 is huge... For him to be recognized that way.” — Mike (03:36)
  • This is Cook's first year making the list, after a season with 16 touchdowns and continued development.
• Running Backs’ Evolving Status:
  • The hosts note a recent uptick in respect for running backs, referencing Saquon Barkley and others in the top 100.
  • “Running backs have moved up, but that makes [Cook] a top 10 running back, no question.” — Mike (05:10)
• Contract Situation:
  • Discussion of Cook’s uncertain contractual future; whether he and the Bills will negotiate an extension or play out the final year.
  • “Will he be on the team in 2026? We don’t know that yet.” — Jenna (05:50)
  • “He’s taking a risk being on the field in the final year of his deal.” — Mike (06:24)
• Training Camp Watch:
  • The panel flags that Cook’s approach to training camp will be a storyline to watch, given his contract status.

2. Josh Allen’s ESPY Nominations (07:52—08:59)

• National Recognition:
  • Allen is up for Best NFL Player and Best Male Athlete.
  • “That's kind of cool to get nominated for that… it's cool when Josh Allen gets recognition like that.” — Mike (08:00)
• Spotlight on Buffalo:
  • The hosts reflect on how remarkable it feels to see a Bills player in these conversations.
  • “Be talking about a Bills player in that position is still pretty wild to me.” — Jenna (08:43)

3. Hard Knocks Comes to Rochester: Interview with Pat Harris (09:05—33:17)

Background & Personal Connection (09:23—10:18)

• Pat Harris returns to his hometown as Hard Knocks’ Senior Director for the Bills’ camp.
  • “I've done Hard Knocks... this is my first year as a senior director going back home to Rochester.” — Pat (09:45)
• Harris’ family ties: his dad and grandfather attended St. John Fisher, and he grew up going to camp.

Hard Knocks’ Team Selection & Storyline Process (10:18—12:09)

• Harris did not influence the Bills’ selection but highlights the team’s appeal:
  • “They’re just going to be a fascinating team to follow for the summer.” — Pat (10:35)
• Storylines are a hybrid: pre-camp research meets evolving in-camp dynamics.
  • “We don’t want to be pigeonholed… if a person jumps out with a great personality… we don’t want to shy away from doing that.” — Pat (11:22)

Unique Challenge: Representing Western New York (12:09—13:20)

• Harris feels extra responsibility as a local:
  • “There's an extra special to make sure we do it right. Make sure we do Rochester right.” — Pat (12:36)
• The region and its devoted fans are noted as a “unique variable” and a special “character” in the series.

Spotlight on the Fans & Local Flavor (13:20—14:43, 22:21—23:01)

• Harris wants to creatively spotlight “Bill’s Mafia” and Rochester’s training camp scene:
  • “It's definitely like an additional character... we’ll probably introduce in one of the earlier episodes to say, hey, you know, Bill's Mafia is this.” — Pat (13:42)
• Plans to highlight local fan rituals, iconic spots like Pittsford Dairy, and the St. John Fisher College campus.

Collaboration with the Team: What Will Air? (14:43—17:05)

• The Bills, like every Hard Knocks team, will review each episode before it airs.
  • “We’ll show them the show... nothing we really don't want anything to be a surprise.” — Pat (15:09)
• Noted that while some teams are more cautious, Hard Knocks is not about sensationalism or “TMZ-style” drama.
  • “We're not looking to make people look bad… that's really not our brand.” — Pat (15:38)
• Editing can be fast-paced; the production team sometimes adds or removes content right up until air time for relevancy.

Behind-the-Scenes Access (24:14—25:35, 29:30—30:59)

• Harris describes robotic camera placement yielding access media can't get.
  • “We have a whole sea of robotic cameras... you want the show to kind of look like and take you in a place that you know, a team media or another show might not be able to.” — Pat (24:52)
• Huge production: 35+ crew on site, 8+ cameras at practice, up to 300 hours of footage for every one hour aired, with 100–200 support staff offsite.

Approach to Stories & Characters (18:28—21:57)

• While stars like Josh Allen are natural storylines, Harris loves highlighting underdog stories.
  • “We start to gather elements from people that aren’t him... and then you kind of say, all right, we have a segment, we have a pod we can build off this guy.” — Pat (19:01)
• Avoids heavily self-promoting players; authenticity is key.
  • “You definitely can sense the guys who want the attention. It's crazy how it always works that when we know you're a little too thirsty and want it, we usually shy away.” — Pat (21:29)

The Josh Allen Factor & Team Spotlight (25:35—27:25)

• Allen is the biggest Hard Knocks training camp star yet.
  • “He is as big a superstar as you probably would have on a training camp Hard Knocks.” — Mike (25:35)
• Harris wants balance: Don’t make it “The Josh Allen Show,” but Allen will be a huge focus.

Dorm Life & Team Camaraderie (30:59—32:26)

• Unique to the Bills: players stay in dorms at Fisher, enhancing camaraderie and storylines of team-building.
  • “We want to convey that as much as we can... seeing what it’s like to go away to a college campus.” — Pat (31:39)

“Curse” of Hard Knocks? (32:26—32:55)

• No Hard Knocks team has won the Super Bowl in the same season—yet.
  • “We're due.” — Pat (32:46)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On local pride:
  "There’s an extra special to, like, make sure we do it right. Make sure we do Rochester right. I think the Bills fans are as unique as ever and I’ve tried to tell people that, like, this training camp is going to be different." — Pat Harris (12:36)

• On the approach to storytelling:
  “We don’t want to be pigeonholed… if a person jumps out with a great personality… we don’t want to shy away from doing that.” — Pat Harris (11:22)

• On fan culture as a character:
  “It's definitely like an additional character... we’ll probably introduce in one of the earlier episodes to say, hey, you know, Bill's Mafia is this.” — Pat Harris (13:42)

• On authenticity:
  “You definitely can sense the guys who want the attention. It's crazy how it always works that when we know you're a little too thirsty and want it, we usually shy away.” — Pat Harris (21:29)

• On Josh Allen’s centrality:
  "He is as big a superstar as you probably would have on a training camp Hard Knocks." — Mike Catalana (25:35) "We don’t want to make it, you know, the entire Josh Allen episode, but it’ll be a big focal point, as he should be." — Pat Harris (27:25)

• Super Bowl “curse”:
  “We're due.” — Pat Harris (32:46)

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Key Timestamps

• James Cook NFL Top 100: 03:36–07:49
• Josh Allen ESPY Nominations: 07:52–08:59
• Pat Harris Interview Begins: 09:05
• Storyline Selection/Production Process: 10:18–12:09
• Local Flavor & Fan Focus: 12:09–14:43 & 22:21–23:01
• Production & Editing Process: 14:43–17:05, 29:30–30:59
• Behind-the-Scenes/Access: 24:14–25:35
• Josh Allen as a Star: 25:35–27:25
• Camaraderie & Dorm Life: 30:59–32:26
• Super Bowl “Curse”: 32:26–32:55

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Tone & Style

The episode is relaxed, insider-y, and peppered with dry humor and regional pride. There’s a strong sense of community—proud of the Bills, of Western New York, and of the opportunity for those stories to be told on a national scale.

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Conclusion

This episode offers an inside look at the Bills’ rise in national stature through the eyes of both beat reporters and a local gone-big at NFL Films. Whether talking skepticism about Hard Knocks’ “curse” or the reality of 300:1 shot ratios, every moment spotlights the anticipation and responsibility felt by those chronicling a special era in Buffalo football.

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Transcript

[Jenna Cotrell]

Being from Western New York, what does it mean to you to cover a team that is so impactful here in our small NFL market?

[Pat Harris]

There's an extra special to, like, make sure we do it right. Make sure we do Rochester right. I think the Bills fans are as unique as ever and I've tried to tell people that, like, this training camp is going to be different.

[Mike Catalana]

This is the Buffalo plus podcast brought.

[Pat Harris]

To you by Connors and Ferris.

[Jenna Cotrell]

All right, welcome back to the Buffalo plus podcast presented by Connors and Ferris, Mike Catalana, Dan Fates with some veteran vacation. I am Jenna Cotrell. Please be sure to, like, comment, subscribe and share this episode. We're going to talk a little bit about James Cook, Josh Allen and some ESPs. But we also have an awesome interview with Pat Harris, a senior director at Hard Knocks, a Western New York native as well. We'll get to him in, in a little bit. But a very cool interview coming up about Fiser and the Bills being at at back here and Hard Knocks being here.

[Mike Catalana]

Speaking of being back, how's it feel to be back?

[Jenna Cotrell]

Wow, I feel rest and refreshed and honestly was a magical weekend. Little mini moon in Cape Cod. It was amazing. So thank you to everyone.

[Mike Catalana]

I thought it was a little much that you wore your veil into the TV station when you came into the podcast.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Oh, yeah, you know me.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, she's coming in, throwing flowers as she walks by.

[Jenna Cotrell]

No, everyone was so, so sweet and so kind. So thank you so much. And my parents probably watched the podcast of us doing the recap of the wedding about 17 times. So it made sure every family function was like, we gotta watch it. Hey, Jenna. Cute. Of course they struggle with the technological side, so it was me trying to queue it up and then walking out of the room because by the way.

[Mike Catalana]

Speaking of that, I don't even think I told you about. Did I tell you about your uncle?

[Jenna Cotrell]

Which one? John.

[Mike Catalana]

John.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah, about.

[Mike Catalana]

No, him talking about the podcast. So her uncle comes up to me and Dan and I are there and Don Alhart, one of our news anchors, a retired news anchor at the pre.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Wedding, the welcome drink.

[Mike Catalana]

It was great.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

We're sitting there talking. He comes up. The man has a very, very slight New England accent.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Heavy.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Like he is. Right? He's that guy.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah. Like it's. I don't understand him.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes. Half the time Patriots fan. Fine. He's from New England.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

And he is telling me how talented Jenna is. So we're like, yeah. And then he says, this is the best. He goes the best thing she does is that buffalo plus. So we start laughing and I'm like, yeah. I go, except she's got to work with those two idiots. I don't know if he knew for sure. Dan and I were the two guys on the podcast with you. I really don't know if he did, honestly.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I could. I could see. I could honestly see.

[Mike Catalana]

So good.

[Jenna Cotrell]

He's just locked in, supporting.

[Pat Harris]

Oh.

[Mike Catalana]

He was like, he's my guy.

[Jenna Cotrell]

He's my godfather, too.

[Mike Catalana]

He is definitely team Jenna. Like, it was big. It was very nice. No, but I joked about us, too. Maybe he was like, yeah, these are two idiots. She should do it by herself. So anyhow, it was cool.

[Jenna Cotrell]

No, that's very funny. Yes. The wedding was so much fun. So thank you, everyone, for the kind, well wishes and all that stuff. We had a. We had a great time, but. All right, let's talk some Bills. I can't believe training camp is coming up. But today or the news kind of this week, The NFL top 100 being some of the names being released. James cook at number 89.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, I think that's a good. First of all, making the top 100 is huge.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

For him to be recognized that way.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Jeremy Fowler, vn does this bit. It's a good one with. He interviews coaches and GMs and scouts and they rank players in position wise. I think James Cook was eighth for running backs. You know, you look at that list of some pretty good players there, it. It kind of fits to make the top 100. He had 16 touchdowns last year. He had a really good year. The Bills know he's a really good player. This doesn't help or hurt him in negotiations one way or the other. It's good for him. The Bills already know he's a good player. He thinks he's a good player. He should.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

It's kind of cool for him to get recognized.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Absolutely. Like, being a top 100 player is a big deal. It's his first year being in the top 100. And I think one of the things that we've talked about going back to last season was just the development that we saw from him. So to get the touchdowns and have the yards and also have this, like, he is a talented player. He has been playing like it. And for him, I think it's pretty cool to be, you know, number 89. And you're right. Like, there are a lot of very good running backs in the NFL. And to have him be, you know, top 10 on that list, I also think is what you're talking about with the Jeremy Fowler stuff. So for me, I wasn't like, oh my God, he needs to be in the 20s. But I also was like, good for him.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. I mean if you think about the position, it has been upgraded recently in terms of, you know, I was joking. The last show I think we talked about saquon was like 86 or something the last time he'll be in the top 10 this year.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah, I would imagine.

[Mike Catalana]

And you know, there have been Derrick Henry obviously having great years and you still have Jacobs and you have still have Christian McCaffrey and those players. So running backs have moved up, but that makes him a top 10 running back, no question. Right. So. So I think, I think everybody's aware of that. I don't know what impact it has. And it gets real now. We talked about this. Showed up at mandatory camp practice, did everything. Now we'll see and we do talk to the director of Hard Knocks about it. You'll hear that in a little bit. But it will be interesting to see how James Cook is.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Well, what is, what is the approach from him? What is the approach from the Bills and how does this all play out like have talked about all spring long. Will he come to mandatory camp? What will that look like? He did. He showed up, he did practice and now this is the next step down the line of what will this look like as the Bills and James Cook figure out what the next contract will look like. Will he be on the team in 2026? We don't know that yet. But this is the next portion of where we're going in terms of. And for me it's like you really hope it's not a distraction.

[Mike Catalana]

And the thing is not in the building. Nobody's in the building at this time. Everybody's taking their time off. But I wonder if there has been negotiations or is it just sort of like they've kept it at a certain place? I, you know, and then there's different negotiations. Jenna, is there negotiations to I'm going to play it out this year, leave it at that. He's going to play. I mean he's taking a risk being on the field in the final year of his deal. But he also wants to get $5.3 million at least what he scheduled for this year. And then whether the Bills would want to still try to work out. I don't know if they would want to make a different one year deal. Causes some other issues with in terms of compensation later. But at the same time or do they still have conversations about a longer term deal.

[Jenna Cotrell]

That will be one of the first questions we ask at training camp.

[Mike Catalana]

Oh, yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Is did you talk to James Cook over the summer or after mandatory camp? What were those conversations like? And we love James.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. They'll say they love. His options are show up and play like he did. Don't show up, get fined, show up and not practice. To me, I actually think that's for the team. That's maybe the worst of the three. Oh, yeah, yeah. But you're there. But you're not there. So we have no indication yet. So we'll see how it plays out.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah. All right. Another thing to note. Little Interesting, the SP's coming up.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Josh Allen nominated for two awards, best NFL Player and Best Male athlete.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, I mean, Best male athlete. That's kind of cool to get nominated for that. I.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Best male athlete.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Is. Yeah, that's a big.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, I'd have to look at the list to see who's in there. And then at the same time, best NFL player. I mean, he did just win league MVP. That's a, that's different voters, people vote on the ESPYs. But yeah, it's, it's cool. Hey, listen, it's the ESPYs. It's doesn't really mean anything, but it's cool when Josh Allen gets recognition like that.

[Jenna Cotrell]

So, yeah, I think it's one of those things that, like, after winning the mvp, the bill is going to be on Hard Knocks. Like everything is ratcheting it up in terms of the spotlight on Buffalo. And so I think it's, it's. Yeah, it's not nothing, let's put it that way.

[Pat Harris]

Right.

[Jenna Cotrell]

And like the fact that again, it maybe just call me like naive, but to be Talking about the SB's best male athlete, best NFL player, and be talking about a Bills player in that position is still pretty wild to me.

[Mike Catalana]

Well, you mentioned Hard Knocks. We might as well get to it because it's good if we do say so.

[Jenna Cotrell]

All right, let's toss to our interview with Pat Harris, senior director. All right, a very, very special guest joining us. Pat Harris, Senior director, Hard Knocks. Pat, we want to thank you so much. And I want to let everyone know as well, Very special because you are a Western New York guy. Penfield native. Thank you so much for joining us here today.

[Pat Harris]

Thank you both for having me. No, I'm very excited, very excited to be starting training camp very soon.

[Jenna Cotrell]

All right. And I know for you, like, you're from this area. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your fandom of an NFL team. Obviously, growing up in Western New York, like, what is this opportunity like, coming home and. And also doing this for Hard Knocks at your job. And so many Bills fans we know are looking forward to this.

[Pat Harris]

It's. To be honest, it's very surreal. I've done Hard Knocks. This will be my 10th year in the directing role. I've always kind of had this pipe dream maybe would happen, I'd get to go and just be a part of camp. But the fact that this is my first year as a senior director, going back home to Rochester. My dad and grandfather went to Fischer. I grew up going to camp. So I'm sure I've had different moments leading up. I'm sure once I actually get there and on the field, it'll be kind of a very surreal moment, but I'm super excited. I think it's an incredible team, incredible organization. It's kind of a fun year to. To do this with them.

[Mike Catalana]

So, Pat, a lot of people were a little surprised that the Bills were picked based on the way the rules used to be and where they were and they get picked. Were you like the guy in the back of the room or calling up Roger and saying, hey, this would be a good year for the Bills because I'm ready to go home and. And do this for Hard Knocks.

[Pat Harris]

I. I wish I had that seat at the table because I'm sure plenty of years I've said they'd be great. You know, things are looking good all throughout, you know, my time doing it. And I couldn't tell you why this was outside of. I think the Bills are very prominent team and people just want to know more about them. So I wasn't privy to the. The actual conversations that went on. But, you know, from my somewhat in the know, perspective, you know, they have a lot of intrigue to them. I think they're just going to be a fascinating team to follow for the summer.

[Mike Catalana]

So let's talk a little bit about the intrigue in terms of storylines. Now. Here we are, a little ways out before camp actually begins. Are there already storylines you guys think you have or, you know you have, or does it develop as you start to get content? When the camp starts, it's a little.

[Pat Harris]

Bit of a hybrid. Like, we'll do kind of our homework. You know, we'll research, you know, social medias and kind of get familiar with the team, with the players, coaching staff. So we kind of come in with, hey, there's some intrigue Here or there, whether it's a position battle, a player, a new piece, an old piece, but a lot of it, too, I think, especially being the directors. Once we get there, you want to meet people, you want to see what's happening. We don't want to be kind of pigeonholed to say, well, no, we saw three weeks ago that this was a story. We have to cover it. If it's not a story anymore, or if a person jumps out with a great personality or something unique happens, we don't want to shy away from doing that. So I think it's. You want to come in and do your homework and do your research, but ultimately you just kind of get there and just kind of see what unfolds. We are kind of, you know, we're covering training camp and it's kind of documenting what happens.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I know it's a living, breathing thing. And you're right. I can imagine, like, you have ideas going in, and then from there, things change with just covering the team and seeing what evolves. But for you, like, being from western New York, knowing what training camp means to the area, knowing what the Bills mean to the area, and having the background of knowing that, what does it mean to you to. To cover a team that is so impactful here in our. In our small NFL market, I think.

[Pat Harris]

There is, like, a different level of pride. Obviously, I want to put out a good product every year I do this. I love doing it. But there's an extra special to, like, make sure we do it right. Make sure we do Rochester right. I think the Bill's fans are as unique as ever, and I've tried to tell people that, like, this training camp is going to be different. Like, the people that show. We've had other years where, okay, the hard knocks allure kind of brings in additional people. Like, that's not gonna. It's gonna be any different this year. There's gonna be tons of people every single practice. So I'm trying to convey that to them and figuring out what's a special way or like, a unique way. We can kind of show the fans in Rochester and then ultimately show, you know, the. The Buffalo side. But I think there's a little bit of a different variable there with the home. People are gonna be coming to practice once they get to Buffalo.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I know, like, for fans, too, there won't be. I can't imagine anyone jumping off of tables at the parking lots in Fisher. But for you, like, how do you approach that fan aspect? Because, like you said, you know, also with The Bills being away for training camp at Fisher and just having the crowds that they have always had, does that add an extra element to how you prepare for production wise things?

[Pat Harris]

It's definitely like an additional character. Um, I think that's. That's something we're factoring in to figure out. Okay. What is. I can at least give insight of what I know of how it happens, how fans get to practice, what it looks like, where they're standing. I can give that insight from personal experience, but I think it's. It's an additional character that we'll probably introduce in one of the earlier episodes to say, hey, you know, Bill's mafia is this. And it's, you know, it shows up like this for game day, but here's training camp. You know, a lot of people haven't seen what that's like. Haven't seen, you know, the. All the shuttle buses coming in, the people parking in the parking lots, all that stuff. So I think it's nice knowing ahead of time to figure out, okay, how can we show this in, like, an artistic way as well, and not just, hey, here's a camera, here's a bunch. Here's a big wide shot of a lot of people. Let's find some cool, unique ways and whether it's getting to know some more fans on a more personal level. You know, I've got the chance to work with a few of the iconic Bills fans over the year and more recently, but I think it's. It's thinking of it like that instead of, let's just be there and just documenting it, let's. Let's try to put a little bit more creative element to it.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. All right, so one thing fans have worried about at least talking to us like, oh, hard Knocks is coming. And if anything happens, you know, maybe even the James Cook situation, whether he's at camp or he's practicing or whatever it happens to be the way it actually makes it on the air. So if I have this correct, the team does have a final say. And how does that process work?

[Pat Harris]

They do. It's something we'll sit down and watch with them. And we kind of, you know, we all know what's going on. We'll show them the show. And a lot of times, because it's a partnership, we all kind of know what's going on. There's conversations that are going on before, after, during, so nothing. We really don't want anything to be a surprise when we show them the show ultimately on Monday. So it's not that that. That much of a challenge. I think it's more talked about as like a huge concern. I think from experience, being a part of the show. I've said, and on the meetings with coach and GM and PR people with previous teams, a lot. Not a lot has changed. I think it's certain people are more mindful or certain teams are more mindful of stuff, whether it's, you know, calls or cadences or things like that. And ultimately we want to do right by the players. Like, we're. We're not looking to make people look bad and almost be like a TMZ type show. That's. That's really not our brand, not our style. So I think it's never been an issue before. But the team ultimately will sit down and watch with us usually that Monday morning before the show goes to air, ultimately on Tuesday.

[Mike Catalana]

So the team watches with you. Is that like Sean McDermott, Brandon Bean, Terry Pugula? Is it. Do teams normally have like a. I would say a representative, maybe Pete Guelly, somebody from the team? How does that normally work? And can you tell us how that would work with the Bills?

[Pat Harris]

I don't know for sure what they want to do yet. I think that all, you know that Sean and Brandon will watch in some capacity. It's kind of different for each team. You know, we've sat in. I've watched stuff with coach and GM in previous years. Other times, coach didn't really watch and he knew his assistant would watch and tell him. So obviously PR is a huge piece in that and huge partnership with everything. But I think it's still TBD of who will actually will be in there. But I think a lot of people will get eyeballs on it. It really helps in today's modern world. That used to be. We get a deck, a hard drive that we'd have to set up here. And that fear of is what I'm plugging in actually going to work?

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Pat Harris]

Real now. It's very much. You get the links, it's much easier. So there's not as much of a concern. But it makes me feel a little older knowing I've seen that whole process.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, yeah. Because you're really old. You too. That's what I got to hear about. Right.

[Jenna Cotrell]

We love to make fun of Mike's veteran experience.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

No, for you, like when you show the teams something, if they were to say, hey, this we don't really like, like, what is the turnaround time for you and your team to edit things and make it different? Because I would Imagine that also adds an element of stress in there a little bit, too.

[Pat Harris]

Yeah, I mean, it's. It's. We're cutting stuff in real time. I think the. We usually try to say we keep it as relevant as we can. It's the lot different now in the social media world, you kind of have to be, but we try to say, you know, at a certain point, we have to say, all right, we can't keep putting stuff in. If something happens Tuesday, really try to avoid putting that in the show just because the logistics. Get in play.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Pat Harris]

The latest we've put something in is when Antonio Brown showed up to Raiders camp. I think it was Tuesday morning. And that was west coast time. So that was literally. Here's the clip, here's the two shots of it, here's where it is. Boom. It's in the end of the show. So we kind of have like a rough eyeball of our cutoff time and kind of see what's going on within the week. But, like games and stuff that'll play on Sunday night, we will have a whole army of people working through the night to get that logged, edited, get in front of the team to take a look at. And that'll be in the next show.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah. One of the things I love about what you all do at Hard Knocks is like, you obviously focus on the main characters, and I'm sure there will be a lot of talk about, you know, Josh Allen and his offseason, what he brings. But I also love how you find some of the kind of underbelly guys who maybe you don't hear about the guys trying to make the roster, the training camp darlings, like, what goes into finding those players and how does that kind of evolve for you? Like, because I feel like everyone obviously has a story that makes it to the NFL, but there's some really interesting players that you guys have been able to highlight over the seasons.

[Pat Harris]

A lot of times, like, we might have a little bit of an idea, some of that pre prep research I was talking about. But a lot of it's. Once we get to camp and whether it's building a relationship with a guy or you start to gather elements from people that aren't him, whether it's players, coaches meetings where people are talking about him, good, bad, anything where it's all of a sudden you kind of say, all right, we have a segment, we have a pod we can build off of this guy. And then I think it's a lot of times just what players are comfortable with. We've Found in recent years. Players obviously are familiar with the show, so they kind of see some of the benefits that they can have from it and are more willing to be open with us knowing that we've, we've had guys that have been cut and they found that being a part of Hard Knocks helped them get an additional piece, so they wanted us to continue that story. So it's all different each year. You know, again, we come in with an idea, but I think we, in.

[Dan Fates]

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[Jenna Cotrell]

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[Dan Fates]

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[Jenna Cotrell]

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[Dan Fates]

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[Jenna Cotrell]

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[Pat Harris]

So close.

[Dan Fates]

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[Pat Harris]

We see what players kind of pop, you know, in all different elements to kind of make them characters.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, I think about these moments that have happened in Hard Knocks all the years watching it. Guys involved with the Bills like 711 always open, Rex with the snacks, all these guys that ended up here. Are you guys bummed that Mac Hollins isn't with the Bills anymore?

[Pat Harris]

Yes. We had Adrian Colbert last year who again, was a no shoes on the field guy. So just from that alone, like, he was very compelling and an incredible person with our crew. And I sounds like Mac would have been the exact same, but he became Adrian last year, became friends with almost everybody on our crew pre practice and everything. So you always love guys like that. And they certainly are unique. Like they're, they're must see TD in a lot of ways.

[Mike Catalana]

So that leads me to my next question. Are there guys, like pushing to be like, hey, hey, I'm a good story here, right? Are they just being friendly? Because we know there's going to be media people doing that with you guys because everybody wants to be on hbo. But like, can you. Do you think the players sometimes are like, hey, I got a good story here, come follow me.

[Pat Harris]

You definitely can sense the guys who want the attention. And it's, it's crazy how it always works that when we know you're a little too thirsty and want it, we, we usually shy away, but ultimately never plays up because they're like staring right at the camera, trying to like make a joke.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Or.

[Pat Harris]

And that's not. You know, they're not. They're football players, not actors in a lot of ways. So it never comes across as genuine. But we've had guys over the years that definitely didn't shy away from the camera. So that's.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah, that's. That's really cool. I love. Yeah, I can imagine that it almost. You're like, you. You want to go to the players that open up to you, but in an authentic way. It makes total sense. Are there any spots for you that you're, like, being from a. Being like a Rochester guy, that you're like, oh, I want to highlight some of the local spots. Like. Like you said, the shuttles. But is it like Pittsford Dairy when the team all gets ice cream together? Is there anything like that kind of. That stands out in your head?

[Pat Harris]

No question. I think that's the stuff I want to see. Like Pittsford Dairy. Knowing enough, I've had family members run into Bills players there, so finding ways to say, all right, let's highlight some of the places they're going to be. You know, I had. I put one of my friends to work with, giving our crew food recommendations, knowing it's been a bit since I've, like, lived there and seen what's changed. So for me, with our crew, I obviously want to show them, you know, all the positives and stuff within the area and all the new stuff that's come up that I don't even know about. But there's definitely, I think, just trying to. And even highlight the campus. I think just seeing different pieces of the campus in the area, even. I think some of the B roll stuff we get at least helps knowing some of the areas to go and kind of capture some of that nice footage.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah. You seem like a very humble guy. Your family must be thrilled that you're gonna be back. Like, what has that been? Like, kind of their. Their love and their excitement. Because I can imagine, like, for you, you know, it's coming back home and doing a job that so many people are excited about. Like, what is that aspect been?

[Pat Harris]

Like, it's fun. Like, it's. I certainly. I mean, both my mom and my dad, I think if they could show up every single day and follow me around, they 100% would. That has been brought up many times.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes.

[Pat Harris]

And it's. It's been fun for my friends, I think, because they're all fans of the show. They know what I've done for the past few years, so it's cool in that sense. It's I think going to be figuring out like the work life balance of. Okay. We have long days and I want to see them. So figuring out like that. Right. Blend. But it'll be nice to just even because I haven't been at home for a summer. My son was born and I was off that one. But basically I started in Houston. I've been going ever since. So I'll kind of have a bit of a hybrid and you know, pop over to a family party or something if I can. So I think that'll be really cool. But it's. I'm hoping to get them out to camp a few times and then I think friends have all put in for tickets. So it'll be fun to just like be out on a random Wednesday and I see somebody that I haven't seen in 10 years. Yeah, I think that'll be fun.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Celebrity.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, exactly. You know what I did want to ask you about when I have seen it, even though I've been in a lot of training camps going back to Fredonia, there are parts you, you guys get to that we never would any media person. We don't get there. Even the team media people don't. How does that work? Is that. Are you guys. You're not in the room with the GM or when they're having the meetings or are you maybe at times you have the cameras there getting. Whether it's an individual conversation or maybe a group setting. And then are you watching that in real time when that's going on?

[Pat Harris]

So yeah, we have a whole sea of robotic cameras that'll just sit up in the corner and we install. We did like a whole scout figure out where logistically we want them. And then we. They're all, you know, human operated. So we have somebody that has a big display that have joysticks where they're controlling them. So that's, that's where we record those moment moments, hit or miss. If I'm there listening in real time. You know, it kind of depends on what we have going on. But a lot of times somebody will be sitting there to know kind of what's going on and how we want to capture it. But that's, I think the, the benefit of the show. I feel very lucky to kind of be in places that most people aren't. I think that's what we want the show to kind of look like and take you in a place that, you know, a team media or another show might not be able to take you. Just to add that unique element to it.

[Mike Catalana]

You Know what I was thinking of is that you've had because of the way the rules were, the type of team that was in there, like, you know, when you were looking at the quarterbacks, usually it's teams that haven't had that much success is the way it maps out for this. Josh Allen is, you know, MVP of the league, massive star. Now I know a lot of times the quarterback becomes a big thing. Is there a way you think you need to not make it too much about Josh? Does that make any sense at all? Because people do know some about him, but the way he is at training camp, you'll see like he is the happiest guy in the world to be a Fisher. He loves it seems like he loves every part of it, but he is as big a superstar as you probably would have on a training camp hard Knox.

[Pat Harris]

No question. I think we've had those conversations that not only is with him, but with the team itself. We probably never could probably say they guess the Ravens the year after they won the super bowl like the first show, but in recent memory, they're by far the best team we've had. You know, I think the only equivalent is when we had Aaron Rodgers and the jets and just the caliber of player that he was. And going back and re watching those shows, I think you see just the sheer football footage we're able to capture when it's an elite quarterback, offense, defense, like you're going to get some incredible plays that I think we, we can't forget about. In some years, it's a quarterback controversy or a battle or, you know, the receivers are trying to get chemistry. So it's hit or miss. If you get incredible footage every single day, I think we are going to get that every single day. So it's, it's the balance of letting the person who doesn't know much about Josh get to see a new side of him, but also saying, yeah, this is a team and I think there's lots of people to highlight. We don't want to make it, you know, the entire Josh Allen episode, but it'll be a big focal point as, as he should be.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah, I'm sure Josh wouldn't want that either. No, like knowing that type of leader that he is, he wants everyone else to get some shiny.

[Mike Catalana]

But he might say, follow me to Oak Hill when he gets to off day.

[Pat Harris]

That might be whenever he says, you know what?

[Mike Catalana]

I. I would say this. I and I really do love. I've always loved this show. And even though we're covering training Camp. It's kind of cool to see the other places. It'll be really fun for us. I think of. We've been joking about the iconic shots you get, and if you guys think of them, that we think of the sprinklers going off. Right. The players walking in just. They. It just has that feel also. Liv Schreiber's voice.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Is now. It's so connected with it. Do you guys think about that or does. Is everything like. I choke that about the sprinklers, but it feels like you see something like that in. In almost every one of your. Of your training camp shows.

[Pat Harris]

We definitely keep in the back of our heads. A lot of times you'll capture something, and you're like, I don't know how this makes sense with this, but what? Write something. It'll. It'll. When it's set in that voice, anything. Seriously, though. So that's a nice. It's almost like a crutch in a way that you have that you can lean on that. In terms of shots, like we try to. You always need those, like, segue shots and the stuff that doesn't really mean anything, but you know it's happening and figure out ways. All right, if we did this last year, how can we make it look different or cooler this year? So for a lot of times, I feel like we almost got away from some of the sprinklers because, like, you're doing it, and now we're like, we haven't done it.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah, it is.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Pat Harris]

Yeah. You don't want to lean away from kind of your bread and butter in a way. But we're always trying to, like, almost one up what the. The previous year did and what operators always want to try new things. Now we have new toys and new drones and all the stuff like that that we can say. All right, let's make this extra, extra awesome.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah. Pat, we really appreciate your time. Just a couple more questions. And I know you talk about the new toys, like, for the people who are watching at home, like, what is the size of the crew, how many cameras? Like, if. If you know kind of the details of, like, the behind the scenes, because I think people are also really interested in how you do capture this part of the preseason.

[Pat Harris]

Yeah. So we. Our crew will be about 35 people, all different variations from, you know, production coordinators to camera assistants, PAs, everybody. So we'll have. In terms of practice, we have about eight cameras that'll be on the field in some capacity. You know, we have crews that'll have camera and audio paired up together, usually doing a lot of our wires, and we'll have, you know, a top camera, an end zone camera, an action camera. So we always say it's. It comes out between that, the meetings, the robotic cameras. It's usually about 300 hours of footage we shoot for every one hour that makes air. So. And then I say that 35 is on site. I would say. I mean, I don't even know if we're getting into the 100 to 200 people back here in terms of all the different audio, visual loggers, you know, people actually putting the show together. There's a whole army back at NFL Films in Mount Laurel that basically get all that footage ingested in. We do a very diligent job logging everything so you can search for that shot of Josh's touchdown to Coleman from week one that you want to put in to do as a flashback, whatever it is. So it's, It's. It's a big, big lift. Big effort. By far. One of the busiest projects we have. It used to be the busiest. And then we decided to do hard knocks with 14 season, so that kind of trumped everything there. But it is. I mean, it's. It really does take an army. And I think it's amazes me every time we sometimes get shows out and shoot a game Sunday night and somehow it's airing in the show on Tuesday.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I. Yeah, as someone who does a little, like, we obviously shoot our own stuff, I just can't imagine. I mean, it's. The video in itself is incredible. But then just the amount that you have and the precision in which you edit it with it is really impressive. I think my last question is just like the fact that the players, you know, are staying in the dorms and that much more, I would imagine, content wise, because you have the interactions that they have and. And normally speaking, when some guys would be back at home or whatever, like, how do you look at that? Because there is, I'm sure, just so much of an angle you can take with just the camaraderie aspect in a way that's, you know, a little bit different than most other NFL training camps.

[Pat Harris]

Yeah, I think. I think culture is a big thing that helps. Being a Bills fan, knowing that's a big importance to them. Every team says that. I think they really lean into it. So we want to convey that as much as we can. And knowing that the easiest way to do that is seeing what it's like to go away to a college campus. I think from what I think Brandon Bean said in a meeting that only like eight or nine teams do that, so it's pretty unique. It's been a while since we've had this, so I think that's one thing we're. That's different about this camp. We want to lean into it a little bit to say this is. This is kind of how this team built this culture, by going away for a little bit and figuring out some of the organic ways of what that means to the average person. And it's not all on the football field. It's different pods away, you know, a meeting here, sitting on the quad there, you know, all that different stuff. I think we want to be as many places as we can to kind of capture all that camaraderie that's. That's building.

[Mike Catalana]

All right. And last thing for me, we talked about having a team like the Bills in it. I don't know all trivia from Hard Knocks, but I don't believe. Have you ever had a team win the super bowl when they've been on Hard Knocks that year?

[Pat Harris]

I don't believe so.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Pat Harris]

Back to what you said of the circumstances previously, but we're due.

[Mike Catalana]

So if it happens with your Bills, they're going to all be lining up to be on Hard Knocks. You won't have to worry about it. Like, everybody's going to say, call us. Right.

[Pat Harris]

That's the hope. I pray that that is the case for all. All. It's a good personal work. It'd be the best of both worlds, but let's. Let's hope we're trending in that way.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Awesome, Pat, thank you so much. We really appreciate it. Pat Harris, senior director, Hard Knocks Penfield native coming to Western New York for Bill's training camp at Fisher this summer. Pat, thank you so much for your time.

[Pat Harris]

Awesome. Thank you, guys. Enjoy doing it.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Thank you. That was awesome. I feel. I feel bad. I think we maybe took up more time than. I just. I could have asked 2 billion questions.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. And there are individual questions. But I do think the main thing, the way he said it was like, they don't want to go in there going, we're going to do a story on this guy. We're going to see how it plays out. They want to see how the players interact now. They'll know some stuff. They may have an idea of some young player. Might be Maxwell Hairston. He's the number one pick. But that's kind of obvious in a way, unless there's something about it. That's what the thing they have in this show is they're going to get Josh Allen, they're going to get Sean McDermott, they're going to get those things. They can pick people and say, no, this is. This is the guy I like for this. It'd be easy to say, just pick the best players. I think they can always talk to the best players, but I think they. They're going to find those other things and be ready fans if you're at camp, because you know those cameras are going to be out.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I feel like Bill's fans always bring it.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Like, with the signs or whatever. But I think it's going to be fever pitch this season with all the cameras.

[Mike Catalana]

I did think it's cool, like, a lot of cameras.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I was just about to say that. You didn't interrupt me, but you read my mind.

[Mike Catalana]

Sort of did. I just. I just sort of. It was like merging traffic there.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Say, we're just falling. It's. Yeah, it's. Everything's normal. No, I will say, I think it's just going to be so cool. And to have a guy like Pat being from here is just. To me, it's like next level cool.

[Mike Catalana]

So he's from Penfield, which, when you're at training camp and where we are is. It's right down the road. Like, he's. It's close to Pittsford. It's. Rochester is where it is. And, you know, we asked him beforehand, like, are you. And he's like, oh, yeah, Bill's fan.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

And went to games. Dad had season tickets. Like, they're all in. And he's excited that everybody knows because he's. This is the Bills that he's covering. So it's cool. Like, we've all been in this spot, too. There's. There's being, wanting a team to do well. There's people who are fans. But when it's work, like. And this guy's going to be busy.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Like, this is.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I mean, They've done it 300 hours for every one hour shot that they put on.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

That's an insane amount of, like, raw footage to go through.

[Mike Catalana]

And it is. They have a team of people, but there still has to be a vision from the main idea. And they. And they got to do all this and then get it approved. I shouldn't even say approved. I don't think it's like, no. Yes. No. Can you. You know, I don't think it's that. I think it's. The team looks at it and says, we don't like that part.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Can you take that out? I don't think it's contentious. Like, they're not going to be yelling because if the team says take that out, they're going to take it out. I. I think these guys know enough.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I think it's more collaborative.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes. And they just want to make sure somebody doesn't come across. Not authentic to it. You know, maybe, you know, there's certain things they don't like. They don't like fights.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

If there's a fight at camp, they may go, can you cut that down a little bit? You can show a few seconds of it. We don't need 40 seconds of the guys swinging at each other. Those kind of things. Like the things they restrict us from doing.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yes.

[Mike Catalana]

At least we'll get. Yeah. We'll get to see them on film. That they do. And I'm. I cannot wait to see the stuff.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Oh, no, absolutely.

[Mike Catalana]

And we. Our plan is to do a recap of each episode on the Buffalo plus show.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Makes sense.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I didn't know that was our plan.

[Mike Catalana]

But I think we talked about it before. Maybe we talked about.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I was a little busy. Say. I don't. But I mean, it makes total sense.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. Why not? Because we're going to be like, oh, because we're there the entire time, but we don't see this stuff.

[Jenna Cotrell]

No, some of the stuff. Some of the access is.

[Mike Catalana]

They are in the building.

[Jenna Cotrell]

They are in.

[Mike Catalana]

They're in the damn building. Well, they do have NFL in their name.

[Jenna Cotrell]

That's fair.

[Mike Catalana]

NFL Films, which is awesome. Like this.

[Jenna Cotrell]

NFL Films does a. Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Tremendous work.

[Jenna Cotrell]

So I just. And probably some spotlight on Pittsford Dairy.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Love that.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I'm excited. I'm so excited. This is so cool.

[Mike Catalana]

It'll be fun. I think it'll be fun now.

[Jenna Cotrell]

And hold on. One thing you met. We had talked about it in our interview. But like, the Bills are an excellent team and Hard Knocks is getting to cover them. A lot of people are like, oh, the curse of Hard Knocks. It's like Hard Knocks has traditionally covered the teams that obviously by nature were struggling.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Whereas this is a totally different franchise.

[Mike Catalana]

And even the players like, yes, he's right. It was Aaron Rodgers. But it's like this version of Aaron Rodgers at the. At the end, he's still a starting quarterback, but he's at the end of his career. Where you get Josh Allen, prime MVP superstar. More commercials.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I. I bought that sleep aid.

[Mike Catalana]

Did you really? I did.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I did. It didn't do anything. But also I took it the night before. I took it the night before the wedding.

[Mike Catalana]

Oh, for God's sakes. That's the night you try.

[Jenna Cotrell]

That's why I feel like I need to give it.

[Mike Catalana]

Are you going to tell Jo it didn't work?

[Jenna Cotrell]

I was a little anxious that night. Not anxious, but, like, excited.

[Mike Catalana]

Okay.

[Jenna Cotrell]

But, yeah, I did buy it.

[Mike Catalana]

This would be something. I want to ask you this. My daughters were telling me what Carly, about spraying. Is it magnesium? Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Oh, magnesium. Or lavender on your feet? Oh, I. I don't know. I'm allergic to lavender, so I don't do that.

[Mike Catalana]

But who's allergic to lavender?

[Jenna Cotrell]

I don't know. I get, like, a rash. Am I, like, wherever?

[Mike Catalana]

So they were telling about that also.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Hold on. Funny story about that. It just irritates my skin. And for the longest time, my mom would buy, like, soap for the bathrooms. Always lavender. I was like, mom, I told you that it bothers my skin. She's like, it's fine.

[Mike Catalana]

Val didn't care. So Josh's stuff doesn't work, is what you're saying?

[Jenna Cotrell]

I did not say that. I tried it once and it did not work, but it was probably because I was so excited I couldn't sleep.

[Mike Catalana]

And he's doing the Snickers stuff now. Oh, I didn't see that guy. Yes.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Really? Yes, that actually is. No, I'm more of a Twix person now, actually. I. The Snickers used to be my favorite.

[Mike Catalana]

For a long time. With Josh, you're now 0 for 2 on what he's. And I do not believe you own a car from West.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Her.

[Mike Catalana]

West Her?

[Jenna Cotrell]

No, but I would be interested. Western. My lease is coming up, so might need to check them out.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I don't know. I. You know, this might go out on a limb, but I don't think I'm going to tell Josh that I didn't have work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I'll probably keep that close to the best.

[Mike Catalana]

So that product for Josh, that product is successful when the check clears. It's like the old saying about a surgery. It was an old Bill Walton line. Well, you know, it's successful surgery when the doctor gets paid. So in his case, Josh is like, oh, yeah, stuff is great.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I'm gonna try it again. I'll give a.

[Mike Catalana]

The non Night before your wedding.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Afterwards, I was like, that was probably pretty stupid. I just.

[Mike Catalana]

What if it knocked you out the whole day? You're like.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Like, I can't already keep my eye on you.

[Mike Catalana]

Read the directions. You're like, Oh, I took way too much of this stuff.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Honestly. They were really tasty. I will say you're supposed to only have one. And I did take two because.

[Mike Catalana]

And it still didn't knock you out.

[Jenna Cotrell]

No. But again, I think I was just so excited.

[Mike Catalana]

Okay.

[Jenna Cotrell]

It was. Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

So it works great. Unless you're excited.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Unless you're getting married the next day. No, I will. I will give an updated review. But very tasty. I got the.

[Mike Catalana]

Well, that's good. I think it's always what you want first for me.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

It's always the food.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Okay. All right. This went this one sideways. You can't say I'm shocked, but.

[Mike Catalana]

All right, we'll save credit to me for next week when Dan is back.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah, when Dan is back. Good. Because I did not prepare a credit to me.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, well, it's been a lot about you anyhow.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah, that's way too much about me, truly. There's that. Okay. All right. Thank you so much for joining us here on the Buffalo Plus YouTube channel for my Catalana and Dan Fates, who's enjoying vacation, I am Jenna Cotrell. Please be sure to, like, comment, subscribe and share. We will catch you next time here on the Buffalo plus channel, presented by Connors and. And Ferris.

[Mike Catalana]

This is the Buffalo plus podcast, brought.

[Pat Harris]

To you by Connors and Ferris.