NFL Network's Mike Giardi talks Bills, Patriots and AFC East

Summary

---

Buffalo Plus Podcast: “NFL Network's Mike Giardi talks Bills, Patriots and AFC East”

Date: July 1, 2022
Guests: Mike Catalana, Jenna Cottrell, Dan Fetes (Buffalo Plus hosts) with guest Mike Giardi (NFL Network)

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, the Buffalo Plus team welcomes NFL Network’s Mike Giardi to discuss the shifting power dynamics in the AFC East, focusing especially on the Buffalo Bills and New England Patriots. The conversation covers the Bills’ ascendance to divisional dominance, the Patriots’ efforts to keep pace, the evolution and expectations around Mac Jones, and an in-depth (and entertaining!) debunking of the “myth” of the NFL salary cap. The episode also features candid insider stories about franchise culture, the challenges of NFL beat reporting, and a few lighthearted moments about the perils of mispronounced last names.

---

Main Discussion Points

1. Setting the Tone in the AFC East

• Buffalo’s Rise:

  • Giardi says the Bills are “the best team by far” in the AFC East and “probably the best team in the entire league” right now (01:23).
  • Bills’ roster depth is highlighted: “They’re going to have some tough decisions to make… there are a lot of NFL players that are probably fringe guys on this team may not make the roster. And that’s a phenomenal problem to have.” (01:45)
  • Credits Buffalo GM Brandon Beane for building a powerhouse over five years.

• Patriots’ Respect for the Bills:

  • The playoff blowout loss to Buffalo “changed the perception” in New England (02:55).
  • Bill Belichick seeking out Josh Allen post-game is cited as a sign of heightened respect.
  • Patriots’ offseason roster moves, especially getting younger/athletic at linebacker, were a direct response to being “embarrassed” by Buffalo in both regular season and playoffs.

• Patriots Now Chasing, Not Leading:

  • Giardi: “For the better part of 20 years, the Patriots looked at their competition in the AFC as… the Steelers, as the Ravens, as the Broncos... Now the Bills are the team that they have to… say, well, how do we beat that team?” (05:35)
  • The seismic power shift means Patriots now build rosters in response to Buffalo, much like AFC East teams did for years around New England.

---

2. Mac Jones & Offensive Evolution in New England

• Mac Jones’ Value:

  • Privately, there’s “great belief in the quarterback” among Patriots players and staff. His “superpowers” are intelligence and accuracy (07:45).
  • Giardi: “He’s incredibly intelligent and he digested a playbook that was 20 years in the making...” (07:58)
  • “At some point in a big game, you’re going to be stuck in the pocket... with this kid’s accuracy and intelligence, they feel like he can do that.” (08:31)

• Concerns for Year 2:

  • Coaching Uncertainty: The departure of Josh McDaniels and a confusing arrangement with Matt Patricia, Joe Judge, and potentially Belichick as play-callers. “There’s just a lot of questions about that… Is it going to be too many voices in the kid’s ear?” (09:34)
  • “If this year goes sideways, I can look at it and say, well, what did they do for him? …They didn’t get him a real offensive coordinator.” (09:50)
  • “It doesn’t seem like the Patriots have any idea of where they’re going in that direction. Or am I wrong?” —Dan (10:12)
  • Giardi clarifies: Only Bill may know the plan, but from the outside it's opaque and reminiscent of awkward multi-cook arrangements: “They have this thing about titles which I don’t get... I don’t know if they think there’s a competitive advantage to not telling… who the offensive coordinator is, but they’ve done it before.” (11:05)
  • Giardi draws comparisons to ‘The Office’ sitcom: “What business doesn’t have two co-managers? …Where would the Catholic Church be without the Popes?” —Dan (12:25)

---

3. Expectations for the Patriots & the Division

• Prediction:

  • Giardi: “I don’t think that they’ve done enough to keep pace with Buffalo and… probably haven’t done enough to keep pace with what Miami’s done.” (13:40)
  • “My expectations: they’re a borderline .500 team… the hope there is that these players they added last year… are going to be a lot better in year two.” (14:29)

• Belichick’s Legacy & Scrutiny:

  • “There is a little bit more of… an erosion of [the] trust, I think… There’s definitely more criticism of Bill.” (15:44, 16:06)
  • Patriots’ lack of playoff wins post-Brady is a growing concern for ownership: “A step back this year will raise questions about Bill’s future.” (16:55)
  • In contrast to prior years, there’s less patience for unorthodox decisions and more attention to the staff surrounding Mac Jones.

---

4. Inside Patriots Coverage: The Beat Reporter’s Perspective

• Cultural differences:
  • Giardi describes covering Belichick’s Patriots as often “like, you want to take your head and slam it through a plate glass window,” due to the secrecy and defensiveness (18:26).
  • Personal Growth: “It’s tough to cover Bill when you’re younger because... there’s an intimidation factor… I think when you get to be my age, you don’t give a damn… It becomes, I’m just doing my job.” (18:53)
  • Contrast with the Bills — they’re seen as more open and accessible.

---

5. The NFL Salary Cap: Myth vs. Reality

• The Cap is (Mostly) a Myth:

  • Giardi and Dan Fetes enthusiastically agree: If a team wants to keep or acquire a player, “you can figure out ways” financially, unless ownership simply refuses to spend (21:21).
  • “If you want the guy, you can pay the guy… Does your ownership want to put this money in escrow? That’s the real question.” (22:11)
  • Teams like the Rams are cited as examples of franchises that aggressively manipulate contracts and cap figures without true consequence.

• Notable Quotes:

  • “There are very few teams in the last 10 to 15 years that have found themselves in cap jail because everyone’s gotten good at being able to move the money around.” (21:51) —Giardi
  • “The Patriots love to use it and... But then there’s a quote from Bill Belichick... ‘the salary cap, as we well know, can be maneuvered and manipulated however you want.’” (22:54) —Giardi
  • Dan: “It’s an excuse for poorly run teams to say we can’t afford to pay this player. Or it’s what teams use as... a human shield.” (27:27)

• Real-World Application:

  • Bills’ decisions surrounding contracts for Von Miller, Jordan Poyer, and Tremaine Edmunds are discussed as examples. If the team really wants to keep a player, they can — it’s less about cap restrictions, more about valuation (26:29–28:46).
  • “They may look at him and say, he’s an $8 million a year player and he wants 14. We’re not paying them 14, so… Oh, the cap. Can’t. The cap. We just can’t do it.” —On negotiating player contracts (27:56)

---

6. Closing & Lighthearted Moments

• “G, R, D” — On Pronouncing Giardi:
  • The hosts share laughs over last-name mispronunciations and a running joke about Jenna’s earlier struggle to get it right. Giardi laughs it off, saying, “It’s close enough. It’s in the ballpark.” (30:45)
  • Story of Dan mistakenly including Giardi in a group Twitter DM intended for a colleague — more lighthearted banter to finish the episode. (31:38)

---

Notable Quotes & Segments

• On the AFC East:

  • “The Bills are the best team. I think they're still the best team by far. I think they're probably the best team in the entire league. So everybody else in the AFC East, everyone else in the AFC, period, is chasing that football team.” —Mike Giardi (01:23)

• Bills-Patriots Rivalry Shift:

  • "The Bills have now become the gold standard in the division." —Mike Giardi (03:58)

• Mac Jones & Coaching Uncertainty:

  • "There's just a lot of questions about that… I’ll be real with you, he kind of has a built in excuse. If this year goes sideways... they didn't get him a real offensive coordinator.” —Mike Giardi (09:34)

• On the Salary Cap:

  • "The salary cap, as we well know, can be maneuvered and manipulated however you want." —Citing Belichick, paraphrased by Giardi (22:54)
  • “It’s an excuse for poorly run teams...” —Dan Fetes (27:27)

---

Important Timestamps

• 01:23 — Giardi on Bills currently being the premier team in the NFL
• 02:55 — Patriots’ response to Buffalo's playoff blowout
• 05:35 — Power shift: Patriots now chasing Bills
• 07:45 — Internal Patriots’ view of Mac Jones
• 09:34 — Coaching uncertainty in New England
• 13:40 — Giardi sets Patriots’ expectations for 2022
• 15:44 — Erosion of trust in Belichick post-Brady
• 18:26 — Giardi on challenges of reporting on the Patriots
• 21:21 — Beginning of in-depth salary cap discussion
• 22:54 — Belichick quote on manipulating the cap
• 27:27 — The cap as an excuse for teams’ choices
• 30:02 — Lighthearted last-name mispronunciation stories

---

Final Takeaways

• There is genuine belief—both inside and outside New England—that the Bills are now the “gold standard” in the AFC East and perhaps the NFL.
• The Patriots’ unusual approach to both player development (Mac Jones) and coaching structure (no clear offensive coordinator) has fans and media alike questioning their direction.
• The oft-cited constraint of the salary cap is, according to industry insiders like Giardi and the hosts, a convenient myth; teams usually have financial flexibility if their ownership is willing.
• The episode blends deep football insights with humor and candid reporting stories, making it highly engaging for Bills, Patriots, and AFC East fans alike.

---

Transcript

[A]

Mike Giardi of the NFL Network joins us to talk Bills, Patriots, what impact did the blowout in the playoffs have on the rivalry? And what can we expect from Mac Jones in year two? Plus, is the NFL salary cap just a myth? That's all coming up on this week's edition of the Buffalo Podcast.

[B]

All right, welcome back to a special edition of the Buffalo Podcast presented by Buffalo Plus. We are joined by a huge guest today, Mike. Mike Catalana, Dan Fates. I'm Jenna Cottrell. No, Mike is not the huge guest. Before we jump in, I do want to remind everyone to subscribe to the Buffalo plus channel if you enjoy our content. You know, as always, we're talking Bills, we're talking the AFC East. So I want to bring him in now as Mike Giardi of the NFL Network joining us today. Mike, how you doing? How's the offseason been?

[C]

Offseason's been nice. I don't think I've ever been described as a huge guest at 5 foot 9, 175 pounds or so, but I'll take it. I'm gonna run with that.

[B]

When you stand on your platform, though.

[C]

That's right. Yeah. I need a gavel or something, too.

[B]

All right. I want to start just with the off season. Your impressions of the AFC east, as we know, we get closer, obviously, there was that Patriots Bills playoff game where the Bills kind of had their way with New England. What do you think that just does kind of setting the tone moving forward?

[C]

Well, I think the Bills are the best team. I think they're still the best team by far. I think they're probably the best team in the entire league. So everybody else in the AFC east, everyone else in the afc, period, is chasing that football team. And I, you know, getting a glimpse of them during mini camp, OTAs rather, and not everyone was there, but you still look at the roster and say they're going to have some tough decisions to make in terms of who to keep on the roster, because there are a lot of NFL players that are probably fringe guys on this team may not make the roster. And that's a phenomenal problem to have. And again, kind of goes to show the job that Brandon Bean has done building this program over the last five years, where you're in that situation now where you're like, well, he's Austin. He's a good player. He could, you know, if he's healthy, maybe he could make some team. But I don't know if he makes this team. And there are, there are several guys like that on the roster.

[A]

I'm going to start inside the building in Foxborough. The idea that there was that game, obviously, the crazy weather, the Patriots came in, put their plan together and it worked, and they beat the Bills. And then the next two games were no punts. I mean, the offense did what they wanted. Competitive game in Foxborough, then the blowout in the playoffs inside that building, whether it's coaching and then to the players. Did that change your perception? Was there already, you know, major respect for the Bills. Did it increase? Do you think it really changed the way they looked at the Buffalo Bills going forward?

[C]

Well, I think the fact that Bill Belichick sought out Josh Allen after the playoff game, you know, going into the locker room to find him and talk to him, just tells you about sort of the level of respect that's there, and that has grown over time, I think. You know, we had the stories, I think was last year, where the broadcast kind of leaked the idea that maybe Belichick wasn't overly impressed with Josh Allen, and then Josh Allen goes out and beats him twice a couple years ago. But now to see the way Josh has developed and the. The variety of things that he can do, I think certainly it is. I don't know if it's changed the perception, but I think it's sort of added to the understanding that this guy is the real deal and what they built there is real and it's not. You know, the AFC east has been easy for them for a long time for the Patriots, and it's not anymore. And, you know, the. The Bills have now become the gold standard in the division. And I think if you look at some of the things the Patriots did this offseason, turning away from some of their older, veteran players at linebacker like Van Noy and Hightower, it's because they looked at what the Bills did to him and said, we're not young enough, we're not athletic enough. We have to do something at that position and at other spots to get more competitive, because, let's face it, you're right, it's. I mean, I guess it was competitive in Foxborough, at least in the sense that the Patriots put up some points in that game. Yeah, but it's not just the last two games. It's the last two and a half games without forcing Buffalo to punt. So that's fairly unheard of in the National Football League, especially when you're considered one of the premier franchises like the Patriots. We're not talking about, you know, the Jags. We're not talking about the Texans, we're not talking about the jets, for all their faults in recent years, like, were talking about the Patriots and they were embarrassed.

[A]

Yeah, Mike. When. When you look at the two franchises, though, you know, Dan and Jenna remind me of how many years I've been covering this team. But I've always said that, you know, Bill's Patriots was never like the two teams focused as much on each other. Sure, they had moments through the years, but let's face it, for the entire time of the drought in Buffalo, they could say they were looking at the Patriots, but they. They weren't the team that was ready to make one or two moves and catch the Patriots and then it flipped kind of quickly. The Patriots have never been in a place in the last 20 years where they had to specifically worry about another team. But now this is a rarity, I think, where the Patriots are looking at the team to beat and they can be competitive and they think they might have their quarterback and saying, what do we need to do to beat the Buffalo Bills? That's a fair assessment of the way it is right now?

[C]

Oh, I think that's completely a fair assessment. I think for the better part of 20 years, the Patriots looked at their competition in the AFC as the Steelers, as the Ravens, as the Broncos, with Manning, as Indianapolis with Manning and Harrison and that crew, like the Bills had a little blip here or there where you're like, oh, they're a little bit feisty this year, but it was never like, oh, you know, that team is better than us. Or if we, you know, don't put, if we put forth our best effort, we're going to beat that team. I think that's the way they felt about the entire AFC east for the better part of 20 years. And then look, between Tom Brady leaving some roster changes, some changes to the coaching staff, some bad drafts. I mean, some really bad drafts, three or four years worth of bad drafts that led him to spend two hundred and something million free agency two years ago. They find themselves in this position now where, yeah, the Bills are the team that they have to. As they're building their roster again, they have to look at and say, well, how do we beat that team? Just like all those teams for all those years kept changing coaches and GMs and quarterbacks because they were in a position saying, how do we beat Brady, how do we beat Belichick, how do we beat the Patriots?

[D]

I love how you mentioned that they spent all that money because I'd like to talk to you maybe down the Road in a second. But just how the salary cap isn't real, because I feel like you wouldn't. I feel like you much bigger name are paving the way for a guy like me to fight off Twitter trolls when they tell me about Sarah Cap. But I wanted to ask first because I feel like we are approaching the best shape of your life season. We're approaching the ready to have a breakout season. I just remember a few years ago after Brady left and everybody was. I heard all the reports out of Foxborough that Jared Stidham looks just phenomenal. And I remember laughing because I'm going, what do you expect teammates to say? They're not going to sit there and say like, we're screwed. But where do you see Mac Jones because. Or where's the perception of Mac Jones because we all heard the Boston radio, you know, the. The ragam guy, you know, at the end of when he was done at the season. Where's the perception and the expectations of having this offense grow with Mac?

[C]

Yeah, I think internally and to your point, more privately than publicly, because publicly, what are they going to say? I mean, they have to support the guy. But when you talk to guys, privately players, you talk to people in the front office, you talk to coaching staff, there is great belief in the quarterback because first of all, he's got a couple superpowers. And I think when we look at the position now, you're. You're kind of looking for these things. And obviously he's not the athlete that Josh Allen is or Lamar or some of these guys, some of those freak athletes, but he's incredibly intelligent and he digested a playbook that was 20 years in the making. In fact, they're stripping the playbook down a little bit, not because of the quarterback, but more because of the pieces that they've added over the last couple years, trying to make it easier on them. And then his accuracy, which, you know, we get so caught up in the big plays and running around. But I believed it and I know they believe it in Foxborough that at some point in a big game, you're going to be stuck in the pocket and you're going to have to beat a really good team from the pocket. And they feel like with this kid's accuracy and intelligence that he can do that. Now he's got to prove that he can stay healthy, which he did last year. But, you know, he. He's not this physical freak. He doesn't have this crazy build where he can shrug off hits like someone like Josh Allen can. So that's something to watch. And I think when you look at the pieces around him primarily now for me, the coaching staff, where Josh McDaniels did such a great job with them last year and sort of brought him along, and now it's this amalgamation of Matt Patricia and Joe Judge and Nick Caylee and maybe Belichick calls the plays. I mean there's just a lot of questions about that and they're going to be too many voices in the kids ear. I mean he, I'll be real with you, he kind of has a built in excuse. If this year goes sideways, I can look at it and say, well, what did they do for him? You know, they didn't get him a real offensive coordinator and they have all these people talking to him versus last year where he had one guy talking to him and he had a damn good rookie season, better than any rookie quarterback that came out last year. So that'll be, I think, a big part of what happens here in the next six months or so.

[D]

And I think that was literally led me to my next question about like, what is the thought? Because I feel like when you hear Joe Judge, Matt Patricia calling plays like we all kind of lease in Buffalo or you know, around this, we kind of laugh, like, what do you mean? What, what is the vibe there of? Do they have any idea where, where they're going? Because all we've heard from Buffalo is obviously it's a new offensive coordinator with Brian Dable leaving, but it's like, hey, we got to get things ironed out. But it's great that he's a guy that was in the building and it's a seamless transition and. But they're like talking about now like this is where you lay the groundwork. So you hit training camp running. It doesn't seem like the Patriots have any idea of where they're going in that direction. Or am I wrong?

[C]

Well, I'm sure Bill has a good idea. He just doesn't feel like sharing it with us. And I'll just tell you this so in the OTAs, and I'm sure you guys read some of the reports and some of the tweets. When it was seven on seven, it was Joe Judge who seemed to be relaying the plays to Mac Jones. When it was 11 on 11, it seemed to be Matt Patricia who was relaying the plays to Mac Jones. And then there were a couple periods where it was Bill Belichick doing it. So you know, they have this thing about titles which I don't get And I don't know if they think there's a competitive advantage to not telling me, you and anybody else who the offensive coordinator is, but they've done it before. You know, Josh McDaniels, when he was the OCA and 0405, somewhere around there, he didn't get the title. Bill O', Brien, when he took over for Josh, didn't get the title right away. Matt Patricia, when he was the dc didn't get the title right away. Brian Flores, I don't think Brian ever got the title because he was in the role for only a couple years. But that's just something that Bill likes to do. And I. No one's ever really given me a good explanation for it. I don't think he'll ever get one. But look, I think this all comes back to. I don't think that Joe Judge and Matt Patricia will get blamed if it goes sideways offensively. If the play calling is. It's going to be Bill, because he's the one who's rolling the dice with this. He's the one who thinks, I can take a guy who in Mapatricia, who was an offensive line coach, I think, in 2005, but then has been in defense ever since, and Joe Judge, who was one year the wide receiver coach here in New England, and it wasn't very well received by the guys in that room. And now he's back and maybe he's involved in the process. Like, well, what did you expect was going to happen if it goes sideways? And that's where I think Bill gets some heavy heat if it, if it doesn't go right.

[D]

I don't know if you watch the office, but this reminds me when Michael and Jim are both co managers and they have the aside where Oscar's like, what business doesn't have to co managers? What country doesn't have two presidents? And where would the Catholic Church be without the Popes? And I just thought it was like, great, where you're sitting there like, yeah, they got three guys calling plays like, that'll work well.

[C]

Yeah. And. And look, they tried to, I guess. What year was it? It was. It was, oh, six maybe, where they did something where the Matt Castles kind of put it out there. Matt Castle, who of course filled in for Brady the one year Brady got hurt and then ended up having a decent NFL career. And I kind of felt like it was a little bit of a planted story. Well, you know, Dante Skarnicki, when he was the old line coach that year, know, he would suggest Things over the headset. From a run game standpoint, it doesn't always have to just be one guy. To which I say, please. It's been one guy. And most of the successful organizations and franchises and teams that win Super Bowls have had the one guy.

[B]

Yeah, I guess jumping off of that. Like, where do you even. Where do you set your expectations for the Patriots then this upcoming year? Obviously, Matt coming up on another season, but just with the fluidity, it seems like with just the team in general.

[C]

Yeah, I don't think that they've done enough to keep pace with Buffalo and I would say depending on what happens with TUA in Miami, that they probably haven't done enough to keep pace with what Miami's done. And again, you know, look off, at least with Miami, I mean, with Buffalo, we know there's a track record now of success and we've seen these guys perform. Miami's got a new head coach. We'll see how that all plays out. We still don't really know what TUA is or maybe we do and, and you just don't want to fight to anon on on Twitter about it. So my expectations. Are there a borderline.500 team and can that change? Absolutely. We haven't seen them put pads on yet. You know, we don't know if some of these rookies are going to be impact players or not. We don't know if guys are going to take a leap. I know internally they're really hoping for the, the free agent class from last year, many of those guys who sort of treaded water to be not just better, but a lot better. John who Smith in particular, Nelson Aguilar, who now has competition from Devonte Parker. But I think the hope there is that these players that they added last year and again was sort of stripping down some of the, just the verbiage of the, of the playbook and the length of the calls at 20, 25 word plays, they're trying to get that down to 12 to 15 so it's easier to translate for these guys. I think that's kind of what they're banking on is that, you know, their, their rookie class from last year that was good is going to be even better this year. But more importantly, the guys they spent all this money on a year ago are going to be a lot better in year two.

[A]

Mike, even great coaches do wacky things sometimes. Andy Reid, you know, fired Sean McDermott as his DC and made his offensive line coach, Juan Castillo, his defensive coordinator. And when a guy has had success, there's that sort of. Well, it's the guy like Andy Reid, he's done so many good things. You got to sort of have faith in him. Belichick had that forever. Does he still have that?

[C]

There is a little bit more of a, an erosion of that trust, I think. I mean, look, there's always going to be. And again, it's whatever social media, there's always going to be that contingent on social media that pushes back with any criticism of Belichick or the Patriots by pointing to six rings. That's it. Just simple as that.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Never mind that the quarterback that was a huge part of that is no longer here. Never mind that there wasn't a plan at quarterback when Brady left. And there are some people that believe that maybe Mac Jones was almost forced upon Bill. Like, we're taking a quarterback this year and they made no effort to move up. So Mac falls to 15. They take Mac. So, yeah, I think there's definitely more criticism of Bill. And I would think, look, I, we heard from Robert Kraft at the league meetings in Florida about the notion like we haven't won a playoff game in, in three years. That doesn't sit well with me. So I, I think a step back this year will raise questions about Bill's future. I mean, he's going to be 70 or he is 70. I forget right around that ballpark. And I, yeah, I would think that there would be a point where you say, okay, you were able to do a bunch of different things with the roster and some crazy things because you had Tom Brady, a quarterback. And we had, for years and years and years, you had this great staff, whether it's Romeo Cornell and Charlie Weiss who end up getting head coaching jobs to McDaniels, to O' Brien who gets a head coaching job to Flores. On and on it goes. But now you're bringing back some retreads and Judge and Patricia and you're entrusting them with arguably the, the franchise's greatest asset in Mac Jones. And if that doesn't go well as well, I think that Kraft and his son Jonathan will be like, bill, what are we paying you for? What are we we paying you? 20 plus million dollars a year or whatever the figure is to make these decisions with our franchise. And if they don't want to playoff game again, it's a long time for this organization to go without one. Wow.

[D]

Where, what's it been like all your years covering Bill, like covering the Patriots? I think that like, obviously there was so much made of a tight lipped Organization with Brady. And now you see, you know, Tampa Tom is, is full of life and energy and social media. What has it been like for you? Because I feel like a lot of people on our channel are always like, you get all this access and whether it's Sean or Josh and things like that. Like what's it like for you personally covering the Patriots for as long as you have and having your working relationship, I guess with Bill.

[C]

Yeah. There are times you want to take your head and slam it through a plate class window because to my point, like, you know, you're talking about the offensive coordinator. I don't know why this has to be a contentious thing or this has to be something that they keep as this state secret. And there's been plenty of things like that over the course of time. I would say it's, it's tough to cover Bill when you're younger because I think there's an intimidation factor and especially with so social media has exploded. But that notion that if you ask a question that the general public doesn't like, you're going to get killed on social media. And I think the 20 something year old worries about that. I think when you get to be my age, you don't give a damn. Right. I mean, it's like this is my job. He can, he can, he can. My dryer just went off. He can snarl at me, he can scoff at me, he can spit back at me. He can. And it, and it, whatever. I'm just doing my job. Like it's that point it becomes when you're younger, it's probably more personal now. It's not personal at all to me. I'm going to ask you the question. If you don't like it, you can do whatever you want with it. We get it all the time. You know, you'll, you'll see someone else ask the question and then you'll just like kind of look at their mentions and you'll be like, oh God, dumpster fire. And it's like, well, look, yeah, he's just doing his job. We give him an, we give Bill an opportunity to go, go on the record with things that we think he needs to be on the record with. Whatever he chooses to do with it after that is fine. But I mean, that said, it's been 20 years of remarkable success. So, you know, I've covered a lot of amazing games situations and there have been a lot of great guys that have come through that room that, that will talk to you that aren't worried about Bill. I Think that's another thing where I think there's a lot of younger players or free agents come in. They think they're supposed to act one way, but then as they get more cachet, they say what they want because they're grown men and they should be allowed to say what they want.

[D]

One of the things I say when I want is that the salary cap isn't real. And Mike, we have messaged back and forth about this. Talk about not wanting to upset to anon on social media. Don't upset people that think the salary cap is this finite thing that is absolutely. We've messaged back and forth that we've kind of laughed. And I remember before I, even before I even tweeted it out, I actually messaged you and I was like, the bill should trade for Debo Samuel. And you were like, that's a brilliant idea. And you were like. And for everybody that says, well, you can't pay all those players, you were the first one that you can. You, you can figure out ways and can I guess, can you expand on that of just that when people say, I have said that the salary cap is an excuse for teams not to pay players that they don't want because if they like the player and they want it to work, they, they can.

[C]

And.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Absolutely. Absolutely. Look, so obviously we had this brief blip here because of the pandemic where the cap went backwards slightly and we didn't get these massive leaps. But every year you're getting a 10 to 15 million dollar growth in the cap. And oh, by the way, in 2024 it's gonna be much higher than that because of the new media deals. So I think what you saw teams do during the pandemic years is all of a sudden the void years have become this big thing. Well, you could do the void years and teams have done the void years for eons and you get this pushback about, well, you do this, you're going to end up in cap jail. Well, I would argue to you that there are very few teams in the last 10 to 15 years that have found themselves in cap jail because everyone's gotten good at being able to move the money around. I think the bottom line is, and to your point about if you want the guy, you can pay the guy is, does your ownership want to put this money in escrow? It's real money. You have to put it aside. Do they want to do that year after year after year? And there are franchises, the Rams obviously being first and foremost right now, we're just saying, yeah, the idea is to win championships, so we're just going to keep paying this money. This is a cash cow. Anyway, that's another thing. I think people, the owners are making incredible, incredible amounts of money on the strength of this league and the media deals and the players. So, yeah, it's, it was common to run the, the, the salary cap thing of people. The Patriots love to use it and. But then there's a quote from Bill Belichick, I don't even remember how many years ago, where he said, the salary cap, as we well know, can be maneuvered and manipulated however you want. Yeah. And still, for some reason, that didn't resonate with Pats fans who loved the idea that they could somehow manage the cap and do this whole thing. You, you can, you can do what you want. And I would, I would imagine that as the, as we talk about the cap exploding, that it's going to be even easier to keep or bring in the players that you want because of.

[D]

Totally agree.

[C]

Yeah. The amount of money that is there and available and the way you can look, the, the Bills can start borrowing against Josh Allen's guaranteed money right now. They can start, hey, you know, Josh, we want to get Von Miller and we need to, we need to save about 5 million on your deal. Oh, by the way, you're not giving up that 5 million. We're just guaranteeing it somewhere else. They can do that. You can continue to do that. I mean, the Saints are a team. We keep talking about all the Saints, they, they keep going for it. They keep going for it. They've gone for it like seven years in a row.

[A]

Right.

[C]

It hasn't, it hasn't caught up with them. Yeah. Do they lose a good player here or there? Of course they do. You can't keep everybody generally, but you can keep pretty much everybody and you can bring in people or you can trade your picks and get two first rounders, which, oh, by the way, that costs more money than a first and a second rounder. Like.

[A]

Yeah, I'm starting to believe, Mike, I'm starting to believe that Carson Wentz is now just an experiment by the league to see how a team can handle the cap. Give them Carson Wentz and then say, I mean, the Eagles were supposed to be blown up and then they fixed it in like a year and then they're cutting guys, bringing them back the next day, and they save 15 million against the cap. And then the Colts have to do the same thing and I guess Washington. But the big test, I think is going to be, I mean, between Sean Watson and Baker Mayfield. Like, what are the. I mean, that, that is where there's got to be some. Something real there, cap wise with those kind of numbers for guys who may not be on the field for you.

[C]

Sure. But if he's suspended for the year, my understanding is that he's not getting paid. And the, and the, and the money just moves. So that 1 million that he was supposed to get paid there moves to next year. So they're, they're not getting. I mean, he does have the signing bonus that is his. I mean, he got whatever it was, 45 million. And I mean, who knows? I mean, there probably could be language in there that would allow them to go back and try to get it from him if whatever happens here. I mean. Yes, right. That's. That whole situation is crazy. But, I mean, it's. It seems like it's. They have the capability to maneuver it. I mean, they traded for Amari Cooper, who's making $20 million a year, and didn't have any problem absorbing that. And that was before they made the deal for Watson. And then I would look at like, so you'll hear it in Atlanta. Right. Well, they couldn't afford to pay Matt Ryan. They had to trade Matt Ryan. Well, if the pandemic didn't happen and they hadn't done a bad job bookkeeping prior to. Matt Ryan's probably still there.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, that literally is probably the only reason they did it was because there was a freaking worldwide pandemic. It caused the cap to stagnate and slide down slightly. Now, maybe they would have said, we want to move on from him anyways because we're just not winning anything. But in terms of when they, when they tell you that it's about the money, it's about the money. Because the pandemic and because they didn't, they were one of the few teams that have done a bad job.

[A]

Oh, damn.

[C]

Excited.

[D]

I wanted to talk to you. I was like, I need to just ask Mike. And, like, it's just gonna be me and him talking about how the salary cap's imaginary. And Mike, we were messing before. You're like, I gotta kind of lay off this. Like, this stuff is like, you know, people are going to get on me. I go, but it's so true. Because I've already even pegged it ahead of time. I'm looking into the future because if I'm Jordan Poyer for the bills, I'm sitting there and saying, you know, if Bean says, you Know, I don't, I don't know if there's any money here. If I'm Jordan Poyer, I say, you just signed Von Miller. Like, don't tell me you don't have money for me.

[C]

But yeah, Dan, there's money for Jordan Poyer if they want to. Again, you have to get creative and all that stuff. You're going to have to maybe borrow from someone else. The real question is, at his age, do they want to give him the money? And that's his age. That makes him a top five paid safety. And that's. Yeah, that's the, that's the question for Brandon Bean. And maybe that's the reluctance in getting something done long term.

[D]

And I think that's where teams use it as I, I've made so many human shield.

[C]

Yeah. As it.

[D]

I've made so many images about the, the guy with the cardboard sign holding it up. Because I go, it's an excuse for poorly run teams to say, we can't afford to pay this player. Or it's what teams use as. Like you said, that human shield where if the Bills don't want to resign Tremaine Edmonds next year, they'll say salary cap. The salary cap. It's like, right. If they wanted to resign Tremaine Edmonds, they could, they may not want to at the, that certain number, but they could get it done.

[C]

Yeah, they may look at him and say, he's a, he's an $8 million a year player and he wants 14. We're not paying them 14, so.

[D]

Oh, the cap.

[C]

Can't. The cap. We just can't. We can't do it. You put values on players. I think, you know, look at the Patriots. They wouldn't pay a few years ago. They, they wouldn't pay Malcolm Butler. Yeah, they gave the money to Stefan Gilmore. They didn't trust, they didn't trust Malcolm Butler. And what Malcolm Butler would be was $62 million, but they trusted what Stefan Gilmore would be with $62 million, and then they did it. And, oh, by the way, when they traded him this year, guess what they said, Ah, we can't, we can't afford to pay him anymore. He's coming off that injury like. No, you're right. Really? What you're saying is you don't think he's the same player anymore. We're not going to add any more money to his number because we don't think he's worth it. So, yeah, this is salary.

[B]

Mike, we appreciate, we appreciate you coming on, but I'm Dan is going to be on another level. I don't think you realize the high horse that you just put in on.

[A]

Then the next thing he's going to say is, running games are not real. That's his other big point.

[D]

Just don't. You don't need to run the ball. Like, don't sit there and tell me you need to run the ball. You don't need to.

[C]

You can throw it sideways.

[A]

I'm going to throw.

[D]

Patriots won without. Or the Patriots won the opposite way. They turned. They proved me wrong that one day.

[B]

It's also a snow globe that game. So there's that. All right, Mike, before you go, we do have to be honest with you because. So last time you were on our podcast. Great podcast, as always. We always appreciate you having it on. Right before you came on. So to preface this, Dan, Mike, myself, we all have challenging last names to say. So before you came on, Mike was like, it's not Joe Girardi. It's Mike Giardi. And I'm like, okay. Like, in my head, I'm like, you got this. You got this, Jay. And I'm introducing you. And for some reason, my brain said, G, R, D. Like, like three letters.

[A]

Well, I said to her, because obviously for years. And you must get it.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Because your name, it's like, I get Catalina Catalano. Jenna gets Cattrell. Like Ted Cattrell. Dan gets We. Who knows what with F. So I say, and I go, it's like this G, R, D.

[C]

It's perfect because that's my. So my mother was a nursery school teacher director for like 30 years. And the kids would look at her name and freak. You know, the five year olds, like, what do I. And she would just say, it's three letters. G, R, D. Well, that's the way.

[A]

We approached it with Jenna. Like it was nursery school. And then you said, well, he kept.

[B]

Saying, it's not Giard. It's not Giardi. See, I can't.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Well, every time sports radio, like, if Joe Girardi's name comes up, there's one sports radio host here who always ends up saying Giardi. So I think I got fired from the Phillies a few weeks ago. It just happens all the time. And that, you know, it's. It's fair. I answer to pretty much anything. It's close enough. You know, same.

[B]

All right.

[C]

It's in the ballpark.

[B]

Okay. We just. We had to. We. It's a constant joke in our sports office. So we felt like.

[D]

Listen to it back. Like the podcast intro, it is. It is just so good where you can see her brain, like, start to panic, and it's like.

[B]

Yeah, it's. We might have to insert it into the podcast.

[A]

Hey, when Jenna got announced for her award that we were talking about the other day, it said her name wrong. When she's getting the award. It happens to all of us.

[B]

But, yeah, you know, when they take the long pause, you're like, this is not going to be good.

[D]

And Mike, the other funny thing is we peel back the curtain. Here is the other one is that we've messaged back and forth on Twitter so much that salary cap or other things, and having you on. There was one time where I wanted to send Mike and Jenna, send them a tweet that somebody had, and I just typed in Jenna and hit enter. And Mike and hit enter. And you got lumped into it, and I sent you the group. And then all of a sudden, I get a text from Jenna going, wrong mic. And I was like, oh, that's not Mike Catalana. That's the wrong mic. So that was always the other one, too, where I go, that was embarrassing. You just were like, no problem. Mike Giardi left the conversation instantly, and.

[A]

We were making fun of somebody.

[C]

I think that's also fine. I like to do that a lot.

[B]

So we have. We have fun here. All right, well, Mike Giardi, thank you for joining us of the NFL Network. We always appreciate your time. All right, for the other Mike Catalana, Dan Fates. I'm Jenna Cottrell. We always appreciate everyone listening to the podcast. Please be sure to, like, comment and subscribe. Thank you again, Mike. We will catch you next time on the Buffalo Plus YouTube channel.