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Buffalo Plus: A Buffalo Bills podcast
Replacing Von, balance on offense & what Bills have to prove
00:43:47
Replacing Von Miller with defense and offense
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- [00:01]
A
How did the Bills make up for the loss of Von Miller on defense and on offense? Plus, was the balance they showed in play calling against the Patriots something we should see more of? And what does this team need to prove between now and the start of the playoffs? All that's coming up on this week's edition of the Buffalo plus podcast.
- [00:27]
B
All right, welcome back to the Buffalo plus podcast, presented by Connors and Ferris, Mike Catalana, Dan Fates, I am Jenna Cottrell. We're talking all today about Von Miller, what the defense has to do, the offense, what the Bills have to prove in general, and all about Dan, your favorite, that run game.
- [00:43]
C
Can't wait.
- [00:45]
B
All right, so let's get into everything. Mike, I want to start with you.
- [00:47]
C
Like comment, subscribe?
- [00:48]
B
Yes, like comment and subscribe. Wow.
- [00:53]
C
Just blurted it in there instead of redoing it. I'll just blurt it in there.
- [00:56]
B
Yeah, that's fine. That'.
- [00:58]
A
Is.
- [00:58]
B
We're all welcome here. All right, Mike, I want to start with you. We know the news. Von Miller will be out for the season. A tough blow for this Bills team. What does this. We'll break it down by offense and defense, but where does this defense go?
- [01:12]
A
Now, I start by saying this. You're not replacing Von Miller for what they brought him in for. And I think when I've read people or seen people talk about replacing him, sometimes they'll put in statistics or they'll say this guy can do this and that. I agree. You can make up for numbers. You could. The points per game could stay the same. The defense could look really good. Why'd they bring Von Miller in, guys? For the moments they brought him in for. When you got to get Mahomes on the ground or TUA or whatever it is. So we won't really know if they've made up for the loss of Vaughn until somebody makes up for the loss of Vaughn. It's that moment, right? You know, last year in Kansas City, somebody needed to make a play. They didn't make one. Not saying Greg Russo can't or Boogie Basham or AJ Epanessa, but it has to be a combination of things. And I think they can do that with the D line, with the well coached secondary, with the way the linebackers, if they're healthy, have been playing. But that's the part I gotta see. I gotta see who's making up for that moment that they brought Vaughn in for.
- [02:26]
C
So my guy, to make up for that moment, if we're picking on one guy, and I know, I know some People are like, well, there goes the bill season. Like Vaughn's out for the year. And so that I just want everybody to remember last year, the Bills, I'm not going to talk about the 13 seconds, but they were still considered very likely to go to the super bowl and they probably would have without Trey White and without Von Miller. So like this thought that, like I, I always loved it when Vaughn's like, the Cup's full. Like, I just want to be those last few drops that, that, that overflow the cup to get them to a championship. And he's right. But other people can contribute, like Mike said, to those little drops to get, get you to the championship and get you a Super Bowl. So I still believe they can, they're still super bowl contenders. All those things. To me, I know it's easy to look at the outside and to look at the edge rushers. I'm looking at Ed Oliver like I'm looking at another guy. And I know we talk about, well, they spent first round picks on, you know, on Rousseau and second round picks on Epanessa and Basham and all these things. Ed was a top 10 pick. Like, he is that guy. And we know, like, it's the same thing with Brady. It's the same thing with Mahomes. It's the same thing with all great quarterbacks. Nobody wants pressure right in their face, like out of anything. A quarterback hates pressure up the middle. And that is what Ed Oliver can bring. So we have seen him at moments like on Thanksgiving, dominate games, just single handedly take them over. He needs to do that. He's the guy that I look at and say, okay, honestly, we can talk about Russo and bash him and Epanessa. To me, Ed, it's your defensive line. You take charge.
- [04:06]
B
I loved what Josh Allen had to say yesterday after practice because he talked to the point of like, yeah, we're not going to be able to replace what Vaughn gives us in his totality because of his play on the field, but also that experience, what he adds to the locker room. You hear all these players talk about his positive, be positive mindset. But it was interesting when Jordan Poyer was talking and he talked at length about, you know, what a loss it is to have Vaughn be on the sidelines now. But then he said he went up and he told us, he's like, I went up to Greg Rousseau, another guy, and was like, hey man, this is your chance, this is your opportunity. Obviously he's a younger player. We've seen some of those flashes. Like, we've talked about but I think it's very telling that other guys, other leaders on the team are going up to guys and being like, hey man, you want to get your chance, you want to get your shot, you want to get your shine, now is your opportunity. But it's going to be, I think, I think it's almost going to be a group effort in terms of, you know, it's. I don't know if it's going to be just one player kind of taking over and wrecking a game and being that disruptive force that we've seen Vaughn be. But I think it's going to be maybe this game it's Ed, maybe next game it's Greg, maybe the game after that it's AJ Epanessa who had a pretty good game last game. But it is, it's tough because I mean Vaughn is obviously offered so much in terms of his experience and just that aspect. But you're right, Dan, like this team was expected to win the super bowl without Von Miller and then without Trey White. But it is, my thing is it's just concerning because Matt Milano seems like he is dealing with an injury now. You need your guys to be healthy. And it is so incredibly interesting to me because we have talked at length for so many years about this Bills team and one of the things we really don't have to talk about is injuries. And just the way this season has gone that has been the, the adversity that this team has had to face head on this season.
- [05:59]
A
Yeah, I was making the point to somebody the other day about the inactive list and you guys know, Fans know it's 90 minutes before the game and you wait and most of the time over the last few years we were waiting to see which non impactful wide receiver was going to get that last spot or were they going to dress the other corner that they just picked up. Like this year it's been for real. It's been like, oh, is Edmonds playing? Is Milano playing? Is Poyer playing? Yeah. And they multiple defensive starters have missed multiple games. Now again the idea is getting them back at the right time and keeping them healthy and keeping them on the field. And they talk about everybody's always banged up at this time of the year but these guys have had injuries this year. Poyer is a tough dude. He's still playing with it and he's out there. And by the way, he's a candidate I have for making that play. Yeah, because he's made them all year, you know that play. This is when I say about that play sometimes. Okay, pardon me for 30 seconds here to reference the Eagles super bowl, but.
- [07:05]
C
Okay, no, no, I got one after you.
- [07:07]
A
In that Super Bowl, Tom Brady beat them up and down the field all day, all day. The Patriots had 33 points in the super bowl, but Brandon Graham made the one play, one play. Got to Brady up the middle, knock the ball loose, they win the game. That defense got hammered in that game, but they needed a play, and somebody made a play and you win the game. And I'm not saying that that's, you know, hey, it'd be great if that's in the super bowl and somebody from the Bills is making that play. But this is what I mean about the play, and the overall play is one thing, but in the moment, somebody's got to step up. And you guys have mentioned they, they do have legitimate candidates to do that, right? Any of those guys, somebody comes around the edge, gets to Mahomes, like that's what you want. The difference is Von's done it before. They brought him in to do it, and he looked well equipped to do it again because in the bigger games, as big as they are, first game in Kansas City, he made a play in every one of those. And so you thought he was going to happen, but hey, it's a challenge. They got five weeks to, to say it. But, Dan, that's what I was referencing in those, in those big moments.
- [08:21]
C
I, I agree. 100. And I'll, I'll. I'll pick up where you left off. We make the comparison. You, you were doing the football. I'll give you the baseball one. And, and, and, you know, last year, well, 2021, the Brave star player Ronald Acuna Jr. Went out with a torn ACL, and it was like he was on pace to be the mvp. All these things, and you're like, well, the season's over, like, that's it. And they get on this run and they get hot. And again, if you're not a baseball fan, you won't know. You probably don't know these three names of Jock Peterson, Eddie Rosario, and Jorge Soler, and all of them dominated one or two games that won them the championship. Eddie Rosario was lights out against the Dodgers in the nlcs. Really didn't do anything against the Astros, but in the World Series, Jorge Solera was unstoppable in the World Series. So, like, like, to Mike's point and to Jenna's point, like, it doesn't. I look at Ed Oliver, but I really do agree with Jenna's Point that, like, we're not asking at Oliver to have three sacks a game. It's like pressure the quarterback. Let boogie get half a sack. Let. Let set up Greg to get a sack and a half and like, you could all chip in. And I think that's what Sean McDermott's message was yesterday too was, right, Jenna? It was like, buckle up and be better. Like, yeah, right.
- [09:35]
B
Step up too. Yeah. Like, this is the adversity that we're facing this season. And I gotta say, like, I know sometimes we rag on McDermott because he's always, always has the same voice. But like, I think in an instance like this where it's like, oh, eyes on him too. Like having the same voice matters because you're not. The sky is not falling. You're like, hey, this is what we're facing. This is the tough situation at hand, but this is going to give chances for guys. We all need to be better. We all need to do our 1/11 buckle up and it's time to step up.
- [10:07]
A
And yeah, I think you're right. I think, Jenna, you're right about the overall message, but it's, it's at those moments, it's more than 1 11th, the way I look at it.
- [10:21]
C
Agreed.
- [10:22]
A
Oh, yeah, that's, that's, that's what I'm saying is. And I think there are candidates to do that. I just was really looking forward to seeing that, like, you know, the same circumstances, not just 13 seconds even before that. Because you do remember Josh had brought him back two other times in that game, in that moment where it's like.
- [10:43]
B
Get to him bananas.
- [10:44]
A
You need to take him down. Right. And it's Mahomes that we're thinking about, right? In that moment. It's Mahomes. You got to get to him. Or it could be Burrow. Right. You know, on that Monday night. But I think if I'm on this team and I'm Russo or I'm Milano or Poyer, there's something in my mind and say, I'm going to make that play.
- [11:04]
C
Yeah.
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A
And I think they all have the ability to do it and they're going to get a chance now that maybe it would have been. It would have been Vaughn if, if he was, if he was healthy. But.
- [11:12]
C
And, and not only that, too. I think it's also a different mentality. I've talked about how, like some players do. Von even talks about it when somebody goes down. Like whether it was Gabe going down and missing a game and things like that. That, like, that is always that Wally Pip moment that like somebody can step up and, and, and take charge. And Vaughn's like, I can't wait to see who it is. Like now Von's the one going down and it is somebody else. And I think it's a different dynamic too than, than what if you're Greg or especially A.J. i said, when they signed Von Miller, I said it spoke volumes about what they thought really about AJ Epanessa, that he. We don't really see him as the starter, so we need to bring somebody in that, that can be that starter. Now you get a chance to prove them wrong. And it's different from this chance of trying to prove yourself as the, you know, being a pick in the second round that, like, I can play at this level. You've kind of been replaced and now you're getting reinserted back in not because of necessarily your play, but because of necessity. And I think that can be a underdog mentality. That chip on your shoulder gets a little bigger that, that I think can rally a team.
- [12:24]
B
Let's be real too. This team just in general loves being written off. Like, they, they won't say it openly, but they adore being written off. And I think this Vaughn injury is another opportunity for people to write them off.
- [12:39]
A
Yep.
- [12:40]
B
And you know, we asked Josh Allen about that. He kind of did his little Josh Allen smirk, like, you know, we can only control. We can control type of thing. And he's like, you know, when our team's back is against the wall, we try to play like we know we can and all this stuff. So this is another opportunity. But talking about the offense, I mean, Mike, it is the biggest cliche, but like the best defense is your offense. And it's true, it's true.
- [13:06]
A
Points, score points. I want to see this offense be able to put fear back in another team. I mean, there was a while where they were like, you just cannot keep up with this offense. Go ahead and try. They're going to outscore you. And then the defense would just take over. And that's where we saw all the blowouts. That's the part where I want to see. And I really do think it's not going to be as. It doesn't need to be as explosive as it was, but it's taking care of the football too. You know, the dumb turnover, staying away. I mean, it's going to happen that and they can still score points. You know, it's funny, it's not looked pretty, but what have they been averaging during this stretch? They still have been averaging what, 20? Well, I'm 20 numbers. 28 points a game, something like that. One more touchdown lets you breathe a little easier on a Sunday or a Monday or a Thursday or whenever they're playing, right? One more touchdown and it's like, okay, this is over.
- [14:03]
C
Even.
- [14:03]
A
Even on Thursday against the Patriots, they manhandled them, but one more touchdown. I think. I think if the offense starts to do that, Jenna, and starts to make teams pay right away, boom, boom, boom. Scores. You know, it's nice playing with a two or three score lead as opposed to trying to hold on at the end and that. That is the best defense if you're. If you're piling up the points.
- [14:29]
C
I agree. It's also like, Jenna, back to your point about being the underdog. We've talked about it on the blog. Recap from practice yesterday as we record this Thursday morning when we're up at practice on Wednesday. Can't remember who brought it up, but just the point of being the underdog again, like, again, these. They have been showered with praise that they're going to go to the super bowl all year. And they lose to the Vikings, they lose to the jets, they lose to the Vikings in just the most horrendous fashion. It's kind of like a Jags game a little bit. But in last year, they lost to Tampa Bay. You guys were there. And even though they lost, it felt like, oh, like, we can do this, we can do this. And then they ran the table. They won every game up until the playoffs after that Tampa Bay game. And then in 2020, it was the Hail Murray game that they lost. And everybody's like, well, yeah, I guess, you know, they couldn't really beat Arizona, like, whatever. And then they ran the table after that. So, like, to Jenna's point, I think it's a great one that, like, this team has been like. Even Vaughn was the one to be like, after the two losses, like, we're still 6 and 3. Like, we're still 6, 3 and like. But even at that point, they felt like they had. They were five and four.
- [15:45]
A
Yeah. I have to ask the guy who does Uncle Dan's best bets. They still are the betting favorite for.
- [15:51]
C
The super bowl or no, I don't believe so.
- [15:54]
B
I think it's changed to the Chiefs last week.
- [15:57]
A
Isn't that interesting even, you know, they went ahead of the Chiefs and. And that would be the idea. But they're still in the top. Whatever. To be the better favorite. But you know what? Use it, use it. It's a nice narrative.
- [16:12]
B
They love that.
- [16:13]
A
We can do it. Yeah, they.
- [16:14]
B
They love that. No, I agree. It is interesting to see, like, the. The arc of every season. And it's like, I feel like November is always, like, and then December, they kind of pick it back up. But I think this team is like any 25 year old. They love a good deadline. They love having to pull it together. They love procrastinating and then being like, oh, we gotta pull it together.
- [16:36]
C
But Mike, what do you always say? I. I used it the other night on air, but just the fact. Also, congrats, Mike Catalana.
- [16:43]
B
Yes. Wait. Cheers.
- [16:44]
C
For those that are around the world and don't. Don't follow 13 Ram and Rochester. Mike Catalana. 35 years.
- [16:52]
A
Shoe.
- [16:53]
C
35 years on air.
- [16:56]
A
35 years. Yeah. Thank you, guys. I always tell everybody, and if people listening to this, they're like, how long you been covering the Bills? And my point of reference is my first game was Thurman Thomas's first game. Thurman Thompson, as Leon Seals called him in that game. That's a lot of Bills football through the years. So.
- [17:15]
C
And by the way, on Buffalo plus, is. Is that upper corner right there.
- [17:20]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [17:21]
A
Well, and, and, and it's funny referencing that through the years, the. Just forget about the drought years. They were boring. They weren't good. But go back to that team. Oh, believe me, they had issues. They had issues. There was. You know, Jim Kelly gets hurt in a game against Houston late in the year, and this is their third run at the super bowl. And not only do they lose, he gets hurt, but they end up not winning the division and have to play in a wild card game, ends up being Houston. And we all know what happened in that game and how they came back. And there were other years where they. They had injuries, they were infighting, like, whatever it was, and they. They found a way to get there. So this. This happens even sometimes in hindsight. You look at, oh, four straight Super Bowls like it was this linear thing and it was easy all the time, and it wasn't. And it wasn't the case. So all the teams, it's hard to find a team that didn't have a moment like that or a few and didn't have injuries like that, because they've all had them and they fight back.
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C
You always say in the NFL it is win or panic.
- [18:34]
A
Yep.
- [18:35]
C
I think that is great.
- [18:35]
B
So true.
- [18:36]
A
It really is.
- [18:37]
C
And you either win and you're great and you're on top of the world, or you lose and the sky is falling.
- [18:43]
A
Yeah, until, until you, like, win the Super Bowl. I mean, that really is because there's always, you know, there's always something to worry about. There's always a problem in the, in the NFL. It just is. There's so many things, and I think it's because we all know it's one and done in the NFL. That's what it is. Right. So you just, you're a little off that day. Like, that's the fear you always have. Even when you're the really good team, you're afraid of everybody. Everybody. I mean, if the Bills were starting in the playoffs, I don't mean the team's afraid. I mean, just in general, you're like, you know, could they lose to Houston? I mean, if the Texans got in the playoffs, could they. You know what I mean? Like, just because you say, well, this could happen or that could happen because it's one game. So that's why there's always fear. Every team feels that way.
- [19:34]
B
It is crazy to think about, like, you do when you look back at those, those super bowl runs you do kind of in your mind, you're like, oh, well, it must have been, like, they just kept playing better and better and better and kept getting, you know what I mean? But obviously that's not the case. It is such a long season, too. I, I know there's just. Think of back to training camp, how much has gone on since then. It is pretty wild to think about, but, I mean, no, I, I, I, I think this team has, like Dan said, they've run the table when they've needed to in years past. Now, that doesn't automatically mean that they're going to this season, but at the same point, you have that confidence in them because they've been able to show. And again, the, the phrase I hear, we hear all the time is control what you can control. I literally asked Jordan Poyer, though. I was like, is it hard to, like, it's human nature to look ahead, like. And I, I, this wasn't a, oh, my gosh, how do you do this? It was just like, hey, I would have a hard time. Like, it's human nature to want to look ahead. Okay, we're the one seed now. We have, you know, we have the jets, then we have the Dolphins. Then there's that, like, Cincinnati game looming overhead, and he's like, he's like, no, I know it's gonna sound weird, but, like, he's like, you, your focus is that game on Sunday because you want to win. That game so bad. So you need to be focused today when you go to practice and then tomorrow when you head in. And, like, he's like, you can't really get too psyched out because everything is predicated on you winning that game, that next game. So it was actually pretty interesting and I, I appreciated that response.
- [21:02]
A
Yeah. And real quick, I think about that, and I think. I think it's the nature of football, too, because no matter. I just joked about the Texans, like, whoever. You can get embarrassed in an NFL game so fast. The Jags, there are players. If you're on that D line. I told you, I was standing in the tunnel and I'm trying to remember who it was. Offensive lineman for the Bills came out. It was the game against Cleveland, and he. He turned to the D lineman who he obviously didn't know, and he's like, dude, you are a big. You were on my butt all day. And he's like, shaking hands with him and all. Like, he's in a battle. You can say, people be, ah, the Brown stink or whatever. Yeah, that guy is on the line getting his head beat in back and forth the whole day. I don't think football allows you to be a little dismissive of other games and look ahead because somebody's going to run by you or beat you, beat you in the head during the game. You got to be. You got to be ready. That's the thing about it, is it's hard to. It's hard when you're the guy on the field. It's hard to look past anybody.
- [22:05]
B
Yeah, no, it's true. All right, let's talk about the offense, though, because, Dan, they've been running the ball. They've been more effective. James Cook, Devin Singletary, dynamic backfield. Josh Allen said after practice yesterday. Yeah, we. It's. It's nice to have two ways to win. Your comment.
- [22:27]
C
So you guys know I'm gonna say, right?
- [22:30]
A
No.
- [22:32]
C
Because this is. This isn't new, especially for people that follow Buffalo. Plus, right. This is going to be a new thing.
- [22:37]
B
An ACL surgery is an oil change again.
- [22:42]
C
Taking some L's in my days, like, okay, not afraid to admit it. You know, shoot or shoot. Right. This is December. This is when Devin Singletary got hot last year. And we all thought Devin Singletary was taking that step to be a number one. Right? And then we saw this year. It's like, he's Devin Singletary. We're getting to December. Defenses are tired. It is. It is easier to run the ball now than it is early in the season and some teams have checked out. And when you check out, it's the most noticeable when you check out on defense because it's effort and some teams are out of it and it doesn't matter. So it's not that hard to run against the Cleveland Browns who have nothing to play for. Nope. Yep.
- [23:28]
A
I don't buy that at all. I do, I don't buy that. I do think tackling in the cold, a lot of times that's a factor. You know, guys will be, I mean, they were playing in the dome in that game, but no, I think it is. It's a bit of a mindset. Later in the year, teams also adjust to what you do in the passing game and they came up with another gear. And a year ago, I didn't think Singletary was going to become something. I thought the running game became a more important part of their offense and I think it kick started the pass game again. I think teams had to at least look at them as a legitimate running team and they were effective. And then Josh's talent and the, and the pass catchers, you know, they were. Look at what they did in the playoffs and all that case. And I, I do think if you look around the league, there's a lot of teams that can run the football and throw it. I mean, that's, you know, you, you want to get some of that. They were embarrassingly bad at attempting to run the football and I think, I do think it was Jenna. I think it was a change for them last year and that was the infighting, I think, between Dable and McDermott. McDermott always wants that. And I think they've looked a little more like a physical team. I think both Singletary and Cook have been effective and I think we're going to see more of it now. Not 37 runs to 35 passes. Yeah, but I think they're going to do it more and it. Wouldn't it be great, wouldn't it be great if they could just, you know, when they did hand off, you know, it's four yards, it's four and a half, it's five yards. I mean, it was pretty pitiful for most of the year and now it's at least passable and I think they're going to keep doing it.
- [25:11]
B
Effective.
- [25:12]
A
Effective.
- [25:13]
B
That is the word. Again, this team is not going to become a run first team, but the fact that they're now effective in the rush game is important because it's another way to win. The defense has to play you differently and look, it's been nice to see, I don't know, in terms of long term, what, Devin Singletary, if he'll be in Buffalo, all of these things. But it's nice to get that production out of guys and it gives Josh Allen and the rest of the passing game a little bit of a breather, a little bit of an opportunity to kind of take a beat. Now, that is something that, as we get further in December into January, like, it's important to have another way to. To be able to, you know, gain yards. And for this team, I don't, you know, early on in the season, they've been able to pass the ball effectively. Then they obviously took that lull. But let's be real, like they've needed to have another option because there's sometimes where the passing game just is not working. You need to have that second gear to go to. You don't buy that at all.
- [26:14]
C
Yeah, I think that.
- [26:16]
B
I just don't know how you can look at it. So, like, all or nothing.
- [26:19]
C
I'm not looking at it as all or nothing. I'm looking at it as the trends of the last two seasons where they can't run the ball until November, and then from November, they learn how to run the ball. Like, this isn't like they were holding something back. This is. Mike, you always talk about it. It's not excuses. There are reasons. I think that the reason they get the ball rolling is because defenses are worn down at this part of the season more than the Bill's ability to run the ball offensively. I think it's more of a knock on the Bill, on opposing defense's ability to stop the run.
- [26:51]
A
They run the ball 37 times. Part of it is run the ball and. And they were effective. And, you know, if they weren't effective, they would not have run it 37 times.
- [27:01]
C
And hand up, as I have said, I'm all for running the ball if you can do it effectively. As I've always said, the Cowboys run the ball effectively, the Eagles run the ball effectively. And I'm. I don't sit there and say, well, those teams need to throw the ball 50 times. No, I've said the Bills need to throw the ball 50 times because they stink at running the ball. So again, I know it's part bit, it's part. What I actually believe, but the fact of the matter is, is that if you can run the ball, I'm all for it. That's awesome. I'm not a fan of banging my head against the wall. Trying to say we're a physical team when we get negative one yards per rush.
- [27:34]
A
Yeah.
- [27:34]
B
Okay, so question for you then. So with the Bill's ability to now find a way to run the ball, are you okay with them running the ball as.
- [27:42]
C
Absolutely. If they can run the ball effectively. That's what I always said. I'm just not sitting here saying, oh, they figured out the running game. I think it's more defenses getting worn down at this point of the season because this is the same exact time of the year when Devin Singletary really started to run the ball well last year and we went, whoa, Devin Singletary is having like his best four games and he really kind of started again at the, at the bottom of this season and now James Cook is running the ball well. James Cook wasn't running the ball well earlier in the year. I think there's more of a trend of why it's happening rather than they're just better at it now.
- [28:19]
B
So question for you, like when Josh Allen was having his struggles, you know, in when he was injured and all this stuff like, would have been great.
- [28:29]
C
Would have been great.
- [28:32]
B
Okay, interesting.
- [28:34]
A
I think it is a combination of. Yeah, I do think that wearing down the defenses is part of it, but I do think it's a focus on it and say we're going to do this and we're going to try to run it effectively and Aaron Cromer's a new offensive line coach and there's things they've been trying to implement and all those things. I love seeing them being able to run the ball effectively in the red zone. I think it is a huge thing for teams, even great passing teams. The Chiefs will do it, other teams will do it. You mentioned the Eagles will do it, the Cowboys will do it. When you can break that, you know, say you're first and goal at the 10 and you take one pop and you're down to the three yard line, you're like, okay, we've just changed the whole dynamic of the red zone here and I think if they can do that, I think it's effective.
- [29:23]
C
Mike, I just going to your point because you've been covering this team for 35 years and all those things, you've been on the NFL and you have told me stories that like again, especially when teams are out of it, they're already like we talk about how the Bills are focused on just Sunday.
- [29:38]
A
Yeah.
- [29:39]
C
And I know it. This is probably an exaggeration, but you always used to say it was the week 17 game where like guys Already have their vacations booked, and they're like, I don't want to get injured, but. Because then I have to rehab all offseason.
- [29:50]
A
Well, that is. That's a factor. It's also. It's also that the other side of the coin in the NFL is who's getting their chance now, who's putting tape out there.
- [30:00]
C
Sure.
- [30:00]
A
And there are guys playing very well for their lives. They are. So they're playing all the time. So it's a combination of things. Sometimes they shut guys down, older players, guys that are hurt, and some dudes getting his shot, and he's going to take it. So I think you always get that. Hey, come on, let's be honest. In that last game of the year, you're sitting there going, really? I mean, we got tickets to Cabo next week. Like, I don't want to be limping around. Right.
- [30:27]
C
So, like, to Jenna's point earlier, it's human nature, but that's week 18.
- [30:32]
A
That's like the end.
- [30:33]
C
Yeah, but I think teams now that are, in fact.
- [30:37]
A
You're not doing that.
- [30:39]
B
I don't think, Dan. No.
- [30:41]
A
Nope, nope.
- [30:42]
B
I agree with Mike. I don't think it's too early for that.
- [30:46]
A
Too early for that. Come on.
- [30:48]
C
I think it's really in the back of people of their heads. They're worn down, they're tired. As Josh Allen said, Nobody's 100%. Everybody's injured a little bit. Well, that's good to run the ball.
- [30:58]
A
The offensive line and the running backs. I just think the Bills are now a ground and pound team. They're going to run it 50 times a game.
- [31:04]
C
All right, have a good one, guys. You guys can finish the rest of that pot. All right.
- [31:09]
B
Triggered. All right, well, Dan, I have a question then for you now. Like, where do you think the Bills run game? Like, right now, where do you think the Bills run game is at?
- [31:21]
C
Competent. Is that. Is that fair to say? Like.
- [31:24]
A
Yeah.
- [31:24]
B
No, I want your opinion.
- [31:25]
C
So, yeah, like, I. I don't agree.
- [31:27]
B
With anything you say.
- [31:28]
C
No, you've already said I was gonna clip both of them after the show. You said I was right twice earlier in this show, so that's gonna be crazy to clip those.
- [31:34]
A
I think you were right when you agreed with us.
- [31:36]
C
Yeah.
- [31:36]
B
Yeah.
- [31:38]
C
But like, to Mike's point, like, I think they've been competent and satisfactory at moving the ball. Positive yards wise. And again, it does open up everything else. I've never disagreed with it. I have disagreed with the fact of running the ball on first down for the sake of running the ball to get a second and nine, like, to me, that's a waste.
- [31:59]
A
Well, that's not the goal.
- [32:00]
B
Yeah, that's right. Dictate the results like you're.
- [32:03]
A
You also throw it to try to get 20 and he throws an incompletion in the second and 10. I mean, your goal is to not.
- [32:09]
C
Run it for pass interference on the defense, because they call pass interference all the time.
- [32:13]
B
Well, isn't that timely?
- [32:15]
A
Yes.
- [32:16]
C
And again, I have always said too, about the play calling, like, I don't like judging the play calling based on the result.
- [32:23]
A
I'm with you.
- [32:24]
C
So, like, what do you mean?
- [32:27]
B
Well, you're saying, like, well, if you run it, you try to go for, you know, a first down and you get stopped at the one, then.
- [32:34]
C
Well, what I'm saying is, is that if you. You haven't run the ball all game effectively or all season effectively, and then you go into a game thinking, well, today we're going to run the ball.
- [32:43]
A
I don't think they think like that. I think they have a series of plays that they, they want to use. I think they try to get in circumstances. I think Josh checks out of things and sometimes says, we're going to run the ball here. Like, it's almost like they're being dared to run. If they dare you to run, get five, don't get one. Like, block up your man, find the hole, hit the hole and go. And I think Cook has been the difference maker. Yeah, I think Singletary is Singletary. I think Singletary has been a very consistent player. He is a good NFL player. That's what he is.
- [33:15]
C
Solid on the Jags next year. He's going to be solid on that offense as a backup to etn. He's going to be great.
- [33:22]
A
He is a good NFL player. I think Cook lights a little bit of a fire there. I think Cook is. I think Cook has a higher ceiling and I think he's shown those moments and, you know, nobody's a rookie anymore. Fellas, like, you know, carry the ball. I love Diggs's answer on Cook after the game.
- [33:40]
B
He was passionate.
- [33:41]
A
He said to somebody, said, what do you tell James? Expecting them to say? Like, he was great. He was like, yeah, it was okay. I got high expectations for him. You know, he obviously knows his brother. He's probably known him and, you know, through the thing. But yeah, because he's not a rookie anymore. So ground and pound starts with this week against the Jets.
- [34:00]
B
Okay. Love it.
- [34:02]
C
All right, we're under the bills rush for 100 oh 25 yards this week.
- [34:08]
B
That brings up a good point. We had the over under on Trey White snaps.
- [34:12]
A
Yeah.
- [34:12]
B
Before the game against the Patriots.
- [34:14]
A
Yep.
- [34:15]
B
I took the under 33.
- [34:17]
A
It was.
- [34:18]
B
I was correct.
- [34:19]
C
What?
- [34:21]
B
What?
- [34:22]
C
He didn't play. He only played 33 snaps. What did he snaps.
- [34:25]
A
Yeah.
- [34:26]
C
What is like more.
- [34:27]
A
Yeah.
- [34:28]
B
Like what do we said like 40.
- [34:30]
A
We set it at 40. Yep. 33 snaps. Well, keep in mind the Patriots didn't have the ball that much.
- [34:35]
B
Okay.
- [34:36]
A
Yeah.
- [34:36]
C
He already looked at a nine minute drive.
- [34:40]
A
Yes. That's what I'm saying is they if that was part of it isn't they didn't need him.
- [34:44]
C
I would have been right.
- [34:45]
B
Well Vegas of snaps.
- [34:47]
C
Hang on.
- [34:49]
B
Vegas doesn't care. We went by snap count. Not.
- [34:58]
C
This is great podcasting.
- [34:59]
B
I was to say this is great radio Y Mike or Dan just mouth breathing into his microphone.
- [35:09]
C
Is the wrong game. Hang on.
- [35:10]
B
Okay. You know what?
- [35:11]
C
We're gonna continue. Yeah, continue.
- [35:13]
B
I was gonna say. All right. Well, let's make our point of the last thing to get to Mike. We're in week 14, which is wild to think about, but the Bills top seed in the AFC right now. Top of the division. They have the jets, then they have the Dolphins. They have a big stretch in terms of coming up then that Bengals game. Where is this team at right now and where. What do they need to prove?
- [35:35]
A
Here's the first thing they need to prove. It's funny that they're tops in the division and tops in the conference, but I think the biggest thing and it will result in all that they want is to show everybody they're still the team in the AFC East. It's embarrassing to me for them to look and say they're one and two in the division. They lost to that jets game should gnaw at them because it is. Think about if they would have won that game with the way every other result would have gone. It's the game that holds them back from winning a tiebreaker. If they're 1:1 with the dolphins, it's the game that keeps them on the edge with the Chiefs. Like it's not a cliche. It all starts with the division and they had separated themselves. And I think Miami is competition and I get that. And they handle New England. That's great. But this is the team right now. Like you kind of look at Miami and say, okay, somebody's going to challenge them and I think it's Miami. But they lost to the jets. And you know, while everybody says they handed it to him. The jets played tough defense, and they found a way to beat the Bills with that stiff at quarterback. Now they got Mike White playing like, I think they need to establish their dominance in the division. They did it a good step in that Patriots game. Go show the jets. Take care of the Dolphins. And then New England. New England will have the bus, you know, fired up before the halftime of that game at the end of the year. But you gotta say, we are. We're the kings of the AFC East. It just starts with that. And then we, then, then we just look at the Chiefs as our competition. And I think that really, really, really makes this an important game for them on Sunday. To say that was an aberration. We handed you a game that's not going to happen again. I think they need to own the division.
- [37:21]
C
Yeah, look, this final snap counts of Trey White, because I think Mike and I were both right. We were actually the ones right. 33 snaps, but it was 61% of the snaps. I think if we would have drawn the, the percentage of snaps at 50, we would have taken the over and you would have taken the under.
- [37:37]
A
I'm taking an L here. I can accept the L. I think so.
- [37:41]
C
I've accepted L's on other things. I'm gonna fight for this one.
- [37:44]
B
Oh, my God, Dan, you thought he played the whole game.
- [37:49]
C
I kind of zoned out in the second half of that one. I had to do the news.
- [37:53]
B
I thought he was gonna play the whole game, and I said he wasn't.
- [37:56]
A
Yeah. Belichick punt down 17 in the fourth quarter.
- [38:00]
B
That was amazing.
- [38:02]
C
McCorkle all getting fired up. Throw the ball.
- [38:05]
B
I don't blame him.
- [38:07]
A
Yeah. It's sitting there smirking. He should be.
- [38:10]
B
Yeah. All right, let's. Well, what were we getting back to in terms of.
- [38:15]
C
I think the Patriots was a get right game. I, I think that was the, that was the kind of game that they want to play and in the team that they want to be. So I, I, we've been saying, I feel like for the last two months, like, this is the game. You got to get right. This is the game. That Patriots game was never in question from the opening kickoff. It felt like the Bills were the better team by far, which is what they, you know, they didn't do it against Cleveland, they didn't do it against Detroit. And you're sitting there going, you got wins. That's all that matters. This was a flex. I thought the Patriots game was a flex. And, And I think that's what you need to continue, like Mike said, like, to assert your dominance again is to, is to do that now against the Jets, a team that you beat or team that you lost to at their place, you get them back at yours.
- [38:58]
B
Yeah, the Bills. Ow. That Patriots game, even when the Patriots went up in that, that first half, I was like, okay, that game reminded me of like a big brother fighting with a little brother and just holding him at bay. Just like the, the little brother, like, trying. And it was just like, nope. But I think this, I mean, this is a big stretch for the Bills these next two weeks, because I, I still can't believe they did lose to the Jets. Only because. And look, the jets are improved this year. This is not like you're going to walk. You know, they're going to come to Buffalo and you're going to walk all over them. There's the capability of that. But the Bills have to play to that level that we know they can ascend to. But at the same point, like, what does Micah Hyde say? Like, confidence is a hell of a drug. And this chess team has a lot of confidence. The defense is playing well, and with Mike White, obviously the team very passionate about him being there, it seems like that's the switch that's going to stay.
- [39:51]
A
So you did remember a year ago when we went to New York for Mike White had been, literally, his uniform went to the hall of Fame.
- [39:59]
B
Yeah.
- [40:00]
A
And then he just all over himself in that game and it was like. And then, of course, being the jets, being the jets, then they, like, bench him and, you know, whatever. It's the way they handle things. But he really has lit up that whole team. They are team Mike White, and I think they'd also be team Joe Flacco. I think it's anything except Zach Wilson, but I think Mike White has a certain vibe with that team because he's younger and, and the way he plays. So he at least gives them a legitimate passing game and they've got weapons there. I, I, I like what they're. I put, I'll put it this way. I like the jets team a heck of a lot more than I like the Patriots team. No, that Patriots team stinks.
- [40:43]
C
Yeah. I talked to Mike Giardi. You can find that whole interview from the NFL network on the Buffalo Plus YouTube channel. Mike was saying that, like, I was asking about, like, where does this team think they are? And you know, like, because they're probably, to Mike's point, like, it's an interesting division, and they may be the most interesting team because they have Looked so bad at times. And yet they're a. If they win, they're a half game behind the Bills because they would hold the tiebreaker over them. So it's really a half game.
- [41:09]
B
Yeah.
- [41:10]
C
And Giardi's like, if Salah would have pulled Mac or would have pulled Zach in that second jets game at halftime when they lost on the punt by the Patriots, he's like, this team, he's like, they probably should have beat him in the previous game too, because we're sitting here going, the jets are a way better team than the Patriots. He goes, this team, this team thinks they should be like 8 and 4. Like, like, they. They believe that they're. I. I know you can't.
- [41:34]
A
Yeah. Because you could go to the Cleveland game where Cleveland just handed it to him. But. But, yeah, to your point, Patriots, they were very winnable. Yes.
- [41:41]
C
Yes.
- [41:44]
B
We shall see. All right, we're gonna wrap up here because Mike has to go. Grandpop has to go, but thank you.
- [41:51]
A
More work to do. It's just non stop for me.
- [41:54]
B
Yeah.
- [41:54]
C
What would you do without us?
- [41:56]
B
Seriously? He'd still talk.
- [41:58]
A
Yeah, I. I would.
- [42:00]
C
He does.
- [42:01]
A
He's.
- [42:01]
B
He's still gonna talk.
- [42:02]
A
I know. Jenny just looks at me and goes, I have no idea what you're talking about.
- [42:08]
B
Well, we say that too. All right, well, thank you for joining us here on Buffalo plus, presented by Connors and Ferris. Please be sure to, like, how about your comment? If you want to comment and congratulate Mike, we would appreciate that, but he would hate that.
- [42:23]
A
But yes, how about you comment on what your bills need to prove over this end of the regular season? Obviously they want the 1C. What do you want to see out of this team to the end of the regular season?
- [42:34]
B
Oh, my gosh. Also, I forgot to say, we forgot to thank you all. We hit 20,000 subscribers. That means a lot. So we thank you so much. Please be sure to subscribe like we talked about. Also, tell your bills friends.
- [42:50]
A
But keep in mind, we don't look ahead. We take one subscriber at a time. We've got goals. That's true. 20K is pretty sweet.
- [42:58]
C
You're only as good as your last podcast. So, like, like, we just gotta move on. You start over.
- [43:03]
B
Yeah, that's how it works. All right, well, thank you for joining us. For Mike and Dan. I am Jenna. We'll see you next time here on Buffalo plus.
- [43:17]
A
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B
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