The 5 MOST IMPORTANT BILLS of the JOSH ALLEN era, BEANE'S draft HISTORY & CBS Sports CHRIS TRAPASSO

Summary

Buffalo Plus Podcast Summary

Episode Title: “The 5 MOST IMPORTANT BILLS of the JOSH ALLEN era, BEANE'S draft HISTORY & CBS Sports CHRIS TRAPASSO”
Date: March 25, 2025
Hosts: Mike Catalana, Jenna Cottrell, Dan Fetes
Special Guest: Chris Trapasso (CBS Sports Draft Analyst)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the transformative years of the Buffalo Bills during the Josh Allen era, as the Buffalo Plus team discusses the five most “important” or impactful Bills to play alongside Allen—not just limited to draft picks, but including free agent signings and trades during Brandon Beane’s tenure as GM. The hosts reflect on the philosophy and outcomes of Beane’s drafts, and also welcome guest Chris Trapasso to break down 2025 NFL Draft prospects suitable for the Bills’ current needs.

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Table of Contents

• Training Camp Returns to Rochester
• Framing: Who Are the Five Most Important Bills?
• On-Field Impact: The Panel’s Picks
• Discussing Beane’s Draft Record by Round
• Interview: Chris Trapasso on Draft Prospects
• Memorable Quotes and Banter
• Notable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps

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Training Camp Returns to Rochester (01:00)

• The Bills' training camp continues its annual tradition at St. John Fisher in Pittsford, a central location granting fans greater access than teams with closed campus camps.
• Host sentiment: The camp experience is beloved by players and staff—especially “when the quarterback wants to” (Josh Allen).
• “The day the Bills are tired of doing this, or say it’s not working for us, is the day they just stay in Orchard Park.” (Mike Catalana, 02:27)
• Fan access, atmosphere, and tradition were all emphasized as key advantages.

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Framing: Who Are the Five Most Important Bills? (07:20)

• Inspired by another Bills podcast discussion, the hosts set out to debate the five most impactful Bills during the Josh Allen era, focusing on those who have made Allen and the team better.
• Importantly, impact is not solely measured by draft position—free agents and trades like Diggs and Beasley are included.
• Not limited to offensive players; defenders and leaders factor, too.

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On-Field Impact: The Panel’s Picks (11:00)

The hosts debate and spotlight a range of important players—sometimes disagreeing about whether the focus should be on draft picks or all acquisitions, landing on a broader approach. Notables include:

Dion Dawkins (OT)

• “He has been the constant there with Josh... he’s the protector.” (Mike, 11:05)
• Joined pre-Beane but a mainstay; regarded as Josh’s “bodyguard”.

Stefon Diggs (WR) / Cole Beasley (WR)

• “If I look at wide receivers…Stefon Diggs, 1, and then a close second…Cole Beasley.” (Jenna, 12:25)
• Diggs’ arrival marked Allen’s leap forward. Beasley gave Allen a “cerebral” receiver—critical in 2020.

LeSean McCoy (RB)

• “Shady helped pump up Josh’s confidence…you’re the quarterback, you gotta set the tone.” (Dan, 13:03)
• Even though veteran and short-tenured, helped Allen find confidence as a rookie.

Poyer & Hyde (Safeties)

• “I’m just going to put them together because they’re always together.” (Mike, 20:20)
• Free agent core who shaped Buffalo’s secondary and culture.

Khalil Shakir (WR)

• Stepped up when the team needed consistency after Diggs’ fading production. “If they didn’t have Shakir this year, what do you got for Josh?” (Jenna, 17:23)

Spencer Brown (RT)

• “Spencer’s brought the attitude and the toughness…he’s been the literal instigator.” (Jenna, 25:46)
• Helped retool the O-line in the “second team” era with Allen.

Taron Johnson (Nickel CB)

• “Biggest play in the history” of the Allen era—his playoff pick-six against Baltimore.
• One of Beane’s few home-run draft picks at a critical position.

Discussion of Others

• Ed Oliver (potential, not quite top-five for now), Kyle Williams (leadership in transition), Emmanuel Sanders (short stint, positive influence), Christian Benford (“could end up the best CB they've had”).

Panel’s Final Consensus Five:

1. Dion Dawkins
2. Stefon Diggs
3. LeSean McCoy
4. Jordan Poyer & Micah Hyde (as a tandem)
5. Taron Johnson

(Taron Johnson is the only one clearly drafted by Beane among these)

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Discussing Beane’s Draft Record by Round (29:00)

The panel thoroughly reviews each draft round under Beane:

• First round: Only one outright bust (Kair Elam). Most others were productive (Allen, Edmunds, Rousseau, Oliver, Kincaid).
• Second round: Osiris Torrence, James Cook (solid); Boogie Basham, Cody Ford (misses); Keon Coleman (TBD).
• Third round: Spencer Brown, Terrell Bernard, Dawson Knox—valuable contributors.
• Later rounds: Successes like Taron Johnson (4th), Khalil Shakir (5th), Christian Benford and Tyler Bass (6th). Wyatt Teller (5th) “the one that got away.”
• Seventh round: “That sounds like a seventh round,” laughs Jenna—generally unremarkable but a couple of notable contributors (Dane Jackson).
• Noted issue: The Bills have invested many resources in running backs and the defensive line (sometimes to diminishing returns).

Quote:
“When you look at the five players, there is not a lot of that (homegrown draft hits) on my list through his time.” (Mike, 20:31)

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Interview: Chris Trapasso on Draft Prospects (44:54)

Defensive Front Priorities

• Trapasso predicts the Bills will target defensive tackle and edge, especially as Ryan Nielsen (new staff) brings a more man-coverage, aggressive front philosophy.
• “I think safety and cornerback too…with the hiring of Ryan Nielsen, who has a long history of playing a lot of man coverage…” (Chris, 45:03)
• Could be a shift: More likely to draft a young nose tackle instead of signing older vets.

Potential Draftees (Late Round 1 / Early 2)

• Kenneth Grant (DT, Michigan): “Moves like he’s 300 pounds, disruptive.”
• James Pierce (Edge, Tennessee): “6’5”, raw, high-pressure rate…potential All-Pro type.” (Chris, 47:47)
• At corner: Names include Maxwell Harrison (Kentucky), Azariah Thomas (Florida State), Siobhan Revell (ECU), Benjamin Morrison (Notre Dame).
• On philosophical shift: Looking for more man-coverage corners and “twitchier athletes”.

Wide Receiver Prospects

• Jack Bech (TCU): “Reminds me almost exactly of Puka Nacua…yards after catch, physical.” (Chris, 51:42)
• Emeka Egbuka (Ohio State): “Tremendous blocker on the outside…vertical threat, polished.”

Kair Elam Retrospective

• Chris argues Elam’s deficiencies (lack of short-area quickness, not a “twitchy athlete”) are exactly what the team will look to avoid in this year’s cornerback class.

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Memorable Quotes and Banter

• On camp in Rochester: “Josh Allen, Sean McDermott, Brandon Beane—they’re all in on camp. So.” (Mike, 06:00)
• On Beane’s hit rate: “You look at Diggs…outstanding trade. At the time, very much needed.”
• Draft process candidness: “Fifth round? That sounds like a fifth round” (Jenna, 40:41)

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Notable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps

Fan Access & Camp Discussion

• “It is such a rarity for NFL teams to go away [for camp]...it’s about winning for this team, too. If they didn’t think they could win, they wouldn’t go away.” (Dan, 04:46)

Five Most Important Bills

• “If you just want to say draft picks, that’s fine, but there are other ways to bring players in…I guess the idea was the type of players Josh Allen has played with.” (Mike, 09:15)
• “Shady helped Josh his rookie season…kind of get his swagger, learn what it’s like to be a pro…” (Dan, 13:03)
• “When he played, got rocked in that [London] game, he stood right there and talked about it. Did not have a great Bills career. But I give him credit.” (Mike, 58:25)

On Beane’s Drafts

• “They’ve used a lot of picks on running backs. But does Beane also say, I’ve been able to find value in the third and fourth round of a back?” (Jenna, 40:04)
• “Fifth round is…there’s something to be said for being drafted, and having that attached to you, and 100 to the GM.” (Mike, 43:36)

Trapasso on Defensive Line

• “Kenneth Grant…6’3”, 330 but he moves like he’s closer to 300 pounds… they kind of haven’t had that player.” (Chris, 46:40)
• “All the tools are there…James Pierce…if he’s there mid-portion of round one…raw skills to be good in year one, but in year three could be like an all-pro type edge rusher.” (Chris, 47:47)

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Final Section: “Credit to Me” (54:50)

A traditional segment where the hosts offer personal or professional shout-outs, with everything from thoughts on athlete interviews (Mike) to appreciation for family (Jenna, Dan).

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TL;DR — Key Takeaways

• The Bills’ most impactful Allen-era contributors are a mix of shrewd trades, free-agent signings, and few select draftees.
• Brandon Beane’s draft record has high marks early, but the true “homegrown stars” remain a smaller group—though some recent picks (Torrence, Bernard, Brown, Shakir) could grow into that tier.
• The 2025 draft, according to Chris Trapasso, offers intriguing “fit” prospects on the defensive front and at wide receiver, with a likely philosophical shift toward more man coverage and athletic edge play.
• The Buffalo Plus team’s chemistry and insider-coverage approach offers fans both nostalgia and a realistic lens on the franchise’s building blocks.

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For further insight, subscribe to Buffalo Plus and check out their ongoing NFL Draft coverage and offseason analysis.

Transcript

[Mike Catalana]

In the time it takes you to actually board a flight from Group 8.

[Dan Fates]

Now boarding Premier Altitude Elite Club members.

[Mike Catalana]

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[Jenna Cotrell]

Jenna is frantically making notes.

[Dan Fates]

No, no, I'm just writing down who we have.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yes. Okay.

[Dan Fates]

And then I'm gonna cross reference with how many were drafted by Beam and how it worked out.

[Mike Catalana]

And I like that we're adding this in because that was part of the reason why when I listened to those guys, what went on in my mind.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Was.

[Mike Catalana]

A lot of recent draft picks.

[Jenna Cotrell]

This is the Buffalo plus podcast, brought to you by Connors and Ferris.

[Dan Fates]

All right, welcome back to the Buffalo plus podcast, presented by Connors and Ferris, Mike Catalana, Dan Fates, I am Jenna Cotrell. Please be sure to, like, comment, subscribe and share this episode. We're going to talk a little bit about training camp returning to Rochester. We got a great idea from it's always game day in Buffalo to talk about the five most impactful players of Bean's tenure. And we're also going to do, of course, credit to me. So let's start with the biggest newsworthy stuff.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

And like Catalana, you were the one to break it on Twitter. Slash X. The Bills coming back to Rochester.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, I. I feel like we need to have this story right, since we are based in Rochester and I'm. Well, myself and Sal Marana, Vic Karuchi. I'm trying to think of the few people that actually covered camp in Fredonia when it was there. But it's been in Rochester, Pittsford, this long. It is coming back. They're getting all the details together. The source that couple of sources I talked to about it said they believe it's going to be similar to what it's been. I think there were 10 open practices. Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Last year.

[Mike Catalana]

And roughly that same time, you know, that late July. The exact date is based on the first preseason game is the way they do it. And then ending sometime in August. Last week, the year, I think it was the eighth.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

So somewhere around then, 10 practices. And what I always tell people about this is. And obviously we love it there. I think a lot of our friends who covered the team in Buffalo really like coming for the golf.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I think the Bills like it.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes, they do. We know the players do. Josh Allen does. Sean McDermott does. Brandon Bean.

[Dan Fates]

I think Josh does. I don't know if everyone does.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

But when the Quarterback wants to. Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Then.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

And Oak Hills right down the road. And he likes that. But I always tell people, the day the Bills are tired of doing this or say it's not working for us is the day they just stay in Orchard Park.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

So. Because sometimes people say to me, well, what if they moved to this school or went here? Ain't doing that.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

It's either Fisher. Now, this is based on what I've been told and also what they say. It's either Fisher, Orchard Park.

[Jenna Cotrell]

And I don't think people understand. Obviously, I understand people in Buffalo now saying, hey, like, now I got to drive back. Like, that's, you know, oh, this and that. But you were making the point too, today on social media that, like, it is a central location. Okay. And the other thing, too, I think people maybe miss is that for all the other teams that go elsewhere or. Sorry, all the other teams that stay at their facility, it's closed.

[Mike Catalana]

A lot of it is closed.

[Jenna Cotrell]

So, like, you're only getting your one maybe practice. You're getting your red and blue scrimmage, which is back in Buffalo, which is great for Bills fans, that always has a massive crowd for a practice. But besides that, other teams, they really limit your exposure to the players, your autographs. Like, all those things that, like, that kids love.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Goes away when the team keeps it at their facility.

[Dan Fates]

And I think it's. It is such a rarity for have NFL teams to go away. Like, I remember growing up, the reason I really love football is that the Giants would have training camp at SUNY Albany. So my dad would take us, we would go. It was a similar experience. And then the Giants, like so many other teams, decided it's too much work, it's too much effort, it's too big of a lift. We're just going to have training camp at our facilities. So I think for a lot of people, it's like, oh, I wish we could have it over here in this part of New York. But it's a rarity that they even go away at all, so. And I think it's. It's a great experience, but it's about winning for this team, too. If they didn't think they could win, they wouldn't go away.

[Mike Catalana]

It is funny that somebody says they haven't won anything since they moved there. It was 24 years ago, and I'm like, well, they win the division. They've made the AFC Championship game twice. Yes. Back when they went to Fredonia, they made it to four Super Bowls, and.

[Jenna Cotrell]

That was 99 was the last year of Fredonia.

[Mike Catalana]

They came here for 2000, right after the Music City Miracle. That year is when they came to Pittsford, and that's when they did it. And St. John Fisher has done a really nice job.

[Jenna Cotrell]

That's exactly it.

[Mike Catalana]

Of accommodating what they need. The campus is big enough to take everything in, but small enough that they get around. The fields are in great shape. I would say this, the day it ends will be a sad day because it's less access for fans.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Exactly.

[Mike Catalana]

To the players. There's no question. I mean, I knew growing up the Eagles had camp at Westchester, then at Lehigh, and fans would go, and tons of fans. Now they have a couple of big days at the stadium, and that's. And then maybe some season ticket holders at the facility.

[Jenna Cotrell]

And that's the norm.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, that's the norm.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Like, teams going away has become fewer and farther between. So the fact that the Bills still do it, while I understand, oh, we'd love it to be at Fredonia for people in the Southern Tier. We'd love it to be here, like, yeah, I. I understand that. But Rochester kind of is right in the middle between the far western New York and Erie county and then obviously the Southern Tier, and it allows so much access to fans. They have the capacity for the bleachers and for people to sit and in shaded areas, like, all of those things. It is a really good setup for fans. So I don't see how this isn't a slam dunk for Bill's mafia.

[Mike Catalana]

And I'll just finish this as what we said before. Josh Allen, Sean McDermott, Brandon Bean, they're all. All in on camp. So.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Patio.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. Last year, Bean walked over to the patio.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Walked right around the side of the house.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, just the side. We don't enter the back.

[Jenna Cotrell]

The side that is.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, that's like, right against the shrubbery.

[Mike Catalana]

And, like, property line just walked right on in.

[Jenna Cotrell]

So his house. Yeah, pretty much. It was pretty much his place.

[Mike Catalana]

So we'll see who comes this year. Yeah, I've been working on it.

[Dan Fates]

Patio. I want to get a patio. That's on the bucket list. All right. We're talking about Brandon Bean. Brings up a nice segue.

[Mike Catalana]

Put it on your wedding website. Yeah. Your gift registry.

[Dan Fates]

So new patio, you can put. I had a golden retriever puppy on our registry, and Zach was like, you need to take that down.

[Jenna Cotrell]

That's incredible. I thought you were going to say cash.

[Dan Fates]

Well, yeah, obviously you have, like, yeah, you can save money.

[Jenna Cotrell]

But that reminds me of the episode of the Office, but they're asking for all the gifts. And Pam goes, like, Kevin goes, would you like a. A check or cash? We're accepting that as well. Like, yes, we would absolutely accept that. Like, you don't need another toaster. We'll take cash.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, that's fair. But we talked and we mentioned Brandon Bean, so it's always game day in Buffalo. Matt Beauvais, Sal Capaccio. They did a podcast about the five most impactful players drafted by Brandon Bean in his tenure with the Bills. And it got us kind of thinking about where they were talking about some of the. The top five guys. And it got us thinking about, you know, that's a cool thought experiment for this team, especially at this point where we're, you know, under a month away from the draft to just look back at Brandon Bean's draft picks and which ones have kind of been the guys that have stuck up.

[Mike Catalana]

Well, I think they included more than just the draft, though, too. It was like the players that have been on this team and the impact they've had on Josh Allen and winning, because obviously Josh Allen is number one. So it's the other guys.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Hot take.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes. So it's like in any other thing, it's like, well, besides Josh Allen, because you want an actual exercise in that case. So it includes the five players, and I. I liked what they did because it wasn't specifically like. Because then it would be offensive players, just offensive players, but it's the players that have impacted the team to help Josh to advance. And the team advancing is kind of the way I took it, because it's offensive and defensive players and the impact that they've had on it. So.

[Dan Fates]

I see what you're saying. Yeah, I guess I didn't set it up properly.

[Mike Catalana]

No, you did, because it does impact. It is draft picks, but there's also some other guys who've been there, and some depending on how you want to look at it. I mean, it's always potential that there's somebody you think that was only there for a year or two, had a great impact. Some people been there the whole time. Some have been there and gone, so.

[Jenna Cotrell]

And I mean, this change my list, because I was getting a haircut today and was preoccupied with our group tech. So now I'm adding people to my list. Yes. Yes.

[Dan Fates]

Okay.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Are you. Do you need to recalibrate?

[Dan Fates]

No.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Okay.

[Mike Catalana]

Okay.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Michael?

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. Do you want to start?

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. Do you want me to have.

[Dan Fates]

Okay. Wait, is this. I thought this was just draft picks.

[Mike Catalana]

No.

[Dan Fates]

Okay.

[Mike Catalana]

Well, first of all, even when it's not. It's certainly not draft picks, because I.

[Dan Fates]

Thought that was the point.

[Mike Catalana]

Nope. I'd say that's not what they did. I know they were talking about all those players. And yes, we can just say. If you just want to say draft picks, that's fine, but there are other ways to bring players in. And I. I guess the idea was the type of players Josh Allen has played with.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yes.

[Mike Catalana]

And the type of players who have helped him. You know, there were people, and they had people sending in messages, talking about different players, like a Cole Beasley. He was only there relatively a short period of time and then came back again, but was pretty impactful in that period of time. And he came in. It's free agent. Right. Not a trade. It was a free agent. So in that case, it does show you, too, because I also think it leads you to a place of saying it's draft picks, too. How impactful have the draft picks been?

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yep.

[Mike Catalana]

To helping Josh Allen, which I think is.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Is part of it.

[Dan Fates]

Okay.

[Mike Catalana]

So.

[Dan Fates]

All right, well, do you want to start, Michael?

[Mike Catalana]

All right, I'll start with a guy that I think it's both a draft pick and he's been with the team, and he was there actually before Josh Allen. So that's why it's not specifically just Brandon Beam, but it's the guys that have been on the team, and it's Dion Dawkins. I mean, they basically set that left tackle spot, and he has been there, and this offensive line has gone through different parts of where they would be. I think this current group, they have. Has been the best group they've had. They've had some really nice players, but this has been the best. But the constant has been Deion, and I think he's actually gotten better as his career has gone on. He's become a more vocal leader. He's become the protector of Josh Allen. He has been the constant there with Josh. I would say. So I have him on my list.

[Jenna Cotrell]

He's. He's even the bodyguard when Josh is accepting his MVP award.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I thought that was the best part. When he goes up there and he's shielding the other guys, too.

[Dan Fates]

Loved it.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah. Off of that because. So you want Bean. Bean gets the credit there in your book of the.

[Mike Catalana]

No, this is not. I'm going by what those guys did. So it wasn't specifically to Brandon Bean.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Okay.

[Mike Catalana]

So it's just the guys that have been here with them, which includes, obviously, the majority of them.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Right. And for Context, that was the Sean McDermott draft, as we call it, because Bean wasn't there yet. That's the Milano draft, the Tray White draft, all of those things. So off of that, I. It's. It was when Bean took the big swing, and I think it was the Stefan Diggs move, 100%. I think that I kind of have. If I look at wide receivers that had their biggest impact on the growth of Josh Allen, I think it's Stefan Diggs one and then a close second to me. And I'm not trying to steal somebody else's pick, but it is Cole Beasley, because I would agree with you because of the cerebral part of the game that I think Cole knew so well and had that feel for it that I think that's that 2020 season when we really saw Josh start to put things together. The end of the 2019 season, he was having a great year. It fell apart at the end of the. In the playoff game, but to come back and it was a more polished high percentage passer that we didn't. That nobody thought Josh could be. I think it's Steph him trading the first round pick, making the move that again, we always talk about the expiration date that. That came with Stefan Diggs, but the fact of matter of. Of what he meant to this team, to me, it's. He's up there as the. The top tier.

[Dan Fates]

Okay, I'm gonna go see. I thought it was only draft picks. I misunderstood the prompt. Wouldn't be the first time or the last. I'm actually gonna go LaShawn McCoy, because I think.

[Mike Catalana]

I think I know where you're going on this.

[Dan Fates]

Obviously a little out of the box, but that's how my brain thinks sometimes. And not high, but I think LaShawn McCoy, Shady helped Josh his rookie season, kind of get his swagger, learn what it's like to be a pro. What. What it's like to be, you know, to be a guy that thinks highly of himself, that can play well, that can lead, that can dictate and. And get a little bit of that. Hey, I'm bleeping Josh Allen. Like, you got to listen to me. And I think Shady helped pump up Josh's confidence and gave him that element to his game. Because Josh, as we know, is a pretty humble guy. But I think Lashawn helped him be like, hey, man, like, you're the quarterback, you got to set the tone.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Good point.

[Dan Fates]

And I think that that's something that maybe we won't think about, but I do think that Shady definitely helped elevate Josh in that way.

[Mike Catalana]

I. I have 100% agreement with Jenna on that, because it came into my mind. You realize Shady wasn't around that long with Josh, but even to this day. And when he was on our podcast, he talked about it.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

And, you know, and there's some people that got mad because he talked about Mahomes. Well, he played with Mahomes, too.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yep.

[Mike Catalana]

And he actually has a ring with. Yes, but it's Patrick Mahomes, too. But he is. He is all the time.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Big on Josh. But to your point, it's easy to be big on Josh Allen now, correct?

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

So true.

[Mike Catalana]

He was a growing player.

[Jenna Cotrell]

It was the hype man.

[Mike Catalana]

And Shady's telling other guys around the league, like, better watch. For real.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

That's a really good one, Jenna.

[Mike Catalana]

It is, because I do think, mentally, he had a big impact on Josh.

[Dan Fates]

Allen, and I feel like we kind of forget about it just because it's been so long ago and, like. But you're right. Like, Shady bought in on Josh before Josh was Josh Allen, and it was.

[Jenna Cotrell]

It was also, what do I always joke right. About, like, Jared Stidham. That's my favorite comparison of all time. When Brady left, and it was the McCourty brothers being like, we love this Stidham guy in. In training camp. And it was like. I was like, he ain't starting. And I think that was, like, the Cam Newton year. Like, they instantly bailed on whatever was the thought of Jared Stum. But to have the cachet and the seal of approval from a future hall of Famer to this rookie. I. You're right. I think that was massive. For. It wasn't just the wide receiver that came in with Josh. It wasn't just Tremaine Edmonds. Be like, this is a really cool guy. Like, you have Lashawn McCoy.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Having his back, being open about, hey, this is a. It's a bad dude right here. Like, watch out. I think you're right. I think that's a really good one.

[Mike Catalana]

While we're talking Shady, the coach in GM who brought him in, Doug Whaley.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Rex.

[Dan Fates]

Rex Ryan. Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

And the player he was traded for.

[Dan Fates]

Kiko Alonzo.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Alonzo.

[Mike Catalana]

Great. Or as. Who was it? Drew Brees refer to him as?

[Dan Fates]

Kiko Alfonso.

[Mike Catalana]

Kiko Alfonso. They get that. Kiko Alfonso.

[Dan Fates]

So good.

[Mike Catalana]

Kika. I think it might have been Kika Alonso when they were playing the Bills.

[Dan Fates]

Okay.

[Mike Catalana]

So. Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

So those are some throwbacks.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, it is.

[Jenna Cotrell]

You have the Dion.

[Dan Fates]

Well, can I also add Kyle Williams.

[Mike Catalana]

You can. I was just going to say that's the end of my offensive guys.

[Dan Fates]

Oh, okay. You. Did you have Diggs on there?

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, I had Diggs in my list. I. I just had Diggs and Dion. Okay. Of my five. But I. I like the McCoy one. I like for what he brought to the team.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah. Michael.

[Dan Fates]

I guess mine are also more like less. There's. There's production, but there's also like the intangible.

[Mike Catalana]

I think it's a. Combinations too. It is. Because there are players who brought in more brought in. But you have to do both, right?

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, of course.

[Mike Catalana]

I mean, it's. It's like Emmanuel Sanders, I thought was a really good player in a vet and I loved having him on the Bills.

[Jenna Cotrell]

But since Milk.

[Mike Catalana]

Since Milk. But he didn't have either one of those things, the longevity and all. But it was cool when he was there because he's pros. Pro.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Really good receiver and that was a good kind of guy to bring in.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

But offensively I got one. What do you got?

[Jenna Cotrell]

Khalil? Because when you moved on from Diggs, if we go into last season and even at the end of the Diggs era, when Diggs really wasn't, when things kind of went south production wise.

[Mike Catalana]

Yep.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Khalil caught 16 of 16 passes to end that year. Had the touchdown. Like, if they didn't have Shakir this year, like, what do you got for Josh? And I get it. Josh made everybody good. Like, I'm not taking it away. But you had to have one piece, that there was some continuity. And we all thought Dalton was going to be the guy that was going to step up. It was Khalil. So the fact of. And you found him in the fifth round. And again, he's also become like the reliable punt catcher. Like, he has had the explosive plays, the yards after the catch, which has. Has always been the bugaboo of like, hey, you got to get Josh to have somebody catch the ball and make a play. Khalil's been that guy. So again, never saw him at Boise, never watched one of his games in college, things like that. But I think Khalil has shown that they were able to make those moves offensively and pivot because they had Shakir.

[Mike Catalana]

I think that's a great point because at some point when we look at Shakir's history with the Bills, I think the numbers are going to continue going up. I think this is. I think this is the base for him. I think it was a really Good year. But I think his numbers will go up and then you'll look at it. Janice cheesing through that whole thing. Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Bought the stock early.

[Jenna Cotrell]

It was the Subaru. I think it was the Subaru. That really did you.

[Mike Catalana]

Hey, he is.

[Dan Fates]

I could see. I was like, you know what? This kid, there's something special about him.

[Mike Catalana]

Well, Dan and I met him before you did.

[Jenna Cotrell]

If he introduced himself to us. All time moment at the rookie camp.

[Mike Catalana]

Hi, I'm Khalil Shakira. We're like, we know.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

That's very Josh.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah. I'm Dan. We're like, you don't know us. We know you did.

[Dan Fates]

We tell the story when we first interviewed Josh at training camp and he came over and was like, so sorry to make you guys wait.

[Mike Catalana]

We're like, well, he was the third string quarterback.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Behind Peterman.

[Dan Fates]

Matt Barkley.

[Mike Catalana]

Nope. No.

[Dan Fates]

Oh, Matt Castle.

[Jenna Cotrell]

No, no, hang on.

[Mike Catalana]

Oh, oh, oh.

[Dan Fates]

McCarron.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, McCarron.

[Dan Fates]

And then they traded.

[Mike Catalana]

They got rid of A.J.

[Jenna Cotrell]

After a great comeback in the preseason. The final game against Cleveland.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes. Brett Mustacher was very upset that his wife was out there.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

My gosh, that was okay.

[Jenna Cotrell]

There have been some great comebacks.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. E.J. shush.

[Jenna Cotrell]

In the Cleveland preseason. That was the Shush game. They said the locker room was nuts. And then the next day he was traded.

[Mike Catalana]

He was gone. And then Nate, he held onto the job for a half in Baltimore in the rain when they lost 100 to six or whatever it ended up being.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Josh and Lamar, both first NFL games and neither started. Neither started.

[Dan Fates]

Correct. All right, so so far, that's one guy. That's. That was drafted by Bean.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes. In terms of the draft picks. Yes.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Because my list is weighted a certain way.

[Jenna Cotrell]

So go on. You're second.

[Mike Catalana]

So I will add a guy. Well, look, I'm going to just put them together because they're always together.

[Dan Fates]

That's fair.

[Mike Catalana]

It's Poyer and Hyde.

[Dan Fates]

That's fair.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah. Mike's taking this a totally different direction.

[Mike Catalana]

I'm taking it the way they did.

[Dan Fates]

I really thought it was just like, who being drafted. And in which case, honestly, I was.

[Mike Catalana]

Like, well, my point was going to be, when I look at this with the five players, is that there is not a lot of that on my list through his time. Now, understanding that the players that I was talking about mostly came in early and were there from the beginning when the growth happened for Josh and the success happened. Other guys have been there now they've won five straight division titles. But When I look at the impact these players have had on his career, this next group, the group they just resigned, could all have this impact for this next stretch. Because I've said to you guys, like. And you know he'll play with like three different teams in Buffalo.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yep.

[Mike Catalana]

Because it'll change. This is the middle team for me.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

And there's some really good players on the team who may eventually. Christian Benford may end up being. They resign him. Could end up being the best corner they've had during the whole time. Because Trey White was really good.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yep.

[Mike Catalana]

But you never know how it's going to end up for Benford. So this is why I. I took it the way they did when they were doing their pod on the players that have been the most impactful.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Jenna is frantically making notes.

[Dan Fates]

No, no. I'm just writing down who we have.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Okay.

[Dan Fates]

And then I'm gonna cross reference with how many were drafted by Beam and how it worked out.

[Mike Catalana]

And I like that we're adding this in because that was part of the reason why when I listened to those guys, what went on in my mind was a lot of recent draft picks that are in that.

[Dan Fates]

But do you think some of that. I hear you, but do you think some of that is like these guys, their careers are ongoing.

[Jenna Cotrell]

No.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes. No, no. But a good example is a draft pick was Ed Oliver, who's a really nice player. He doesn't make my five guys.

[Dan Fates]

That's. I. I get what you're saying, but I'm like Terrell Bernard. He could be one of the guys on your like.

[Mike Catalana]

Absolutely.

[Dan Fates]

But he has just not had as much time.

[Mike Catalana]

Exactly. He's been there, but not long enough to have the longevity and also the impact on helping to build this team and maintain it.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Maintain the success.

[Dan Fates]

Daniel.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I will go again. I was much more in the. Jenna. More of the recent.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

But I'll say a guy that he's drafted.

[Mike Catalana]

Here's a guy.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I'll say Spencer Brown because I think he came in, had an immediate impact and for as good as Deion has been and he has absolutely been the Batman of the offensive line. I think Spencer Brown has has shown to be a really good Robin and to anchor both sides of Josh and to stick with him and to go through that.

[Mike Catalana]

What I'm just picturing you going up to Spencer Brown.

[Dan Fates]

He would not.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Let's not. Let's.

[Dan Fates]

Hilarious.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I just.

[Mike Catalana]

With his 40 pack. Didn't he say after the hit him.

[Jenna Cotrell]

In a 30 rack? Yeah, I just think that that was Another when they were. I. I see that as the start of, like you were saying, Mike, that second team, no doubt, when they retooled the offensive line. And that was a big question. And to solidify that spot and to give it, you know, solidity.

[Dan Fates]

Stability.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Stability. That's solidity. Wow.

[Dan Fates]

It's okay.

[Mike Catalana]

That's okay.

[Dan Fates]

That's okay. It's a Monday. It's good try.

[Mike Catalana]

Good effort.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Solid stability. Synchronicity. I gotta wear this shirt. I gotta get the shirt back out.

[Mike Catalana]

We are. I, I'm glad you guys are doing this because this is making me think about this next stage a little differently because I think these guys, if we did this same thing in a few years, these are the. Of the. Are the core guys. Some have been around a little bit.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

But there hasn't been enough of that.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

And I do think there is an influx of talent. These guys like you mentioned, Terrell Bernard, Spencer Brown, that are getting into their primes, but that will be those guys.

[Jenna Cotrell]

And I look at them as having anchored positions that they're not chasing now. So the fact that Spencer has hit panned out.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

They've drafted, developed and resigned has given them the freedom to focus elsewhere. Like, if you're still trying. Look, we know they've got problems on the defensive line. I don't think any of us are really going to have anybody on their D line and who's been a great impact for this defense. I understand you said possibly Kyle Williams. I understand that for the. The veteran leadership aspect of it. But if they were having to retool both lines at the same time, that's a bit of a headache. So I think by drafting Spencer Brown in the third round, by developing him and resigning him, they can check that box off their list. I think that's a big thing for the stability of the offense.

[Mike Catalana]

No doubt. And it is a key position, like you're saying. I mean, it used to be left tackle, left tackle. It doesn't matter to me in this case, blind side, all that stuff that goes on the game is different. Players aren't just sitting in the pocket. Yeah, it is. They have core guys now in left and right tackle.

[Jenna Cotrell]

And even more than Deion, Spencer's brought an edge.

[Mike Catalana]

Oh, no doubt.

[Dan Fates]

Attitude.

[Jenna Cotrell]

He's brought the attitude and the toughness that this offensive line has wanted to be in the Sean McDermott era and has been literally, we talk about Deion being the protector. Spencer has been the literal instigator, like don't go near unless quarterback.

[Mike Catalana]

Unless they're playing the jets.

[Dan Fates]

No one's taking that away from Dion. All right, I. I'm gonna go. Taryn, very reasonable pick. I mean, he's been everything and more than. I mean, fourth round pick, All Pro or no. Second.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes. Yes, second.

[Dan Fates]

Second team All Pro.

[Jenna Cotrell]

But, yeah, biggest play in the history.

[Dan Fates]

That's fair. Memorable. Some memorable plays.

[Mike Catalana]

Individual plays in the playoffs. I mean, I would say it's bigger than. It's bigger than the one that Terrell Bernard just made, but not by a lot. That was a massive play to take the ball away in a game that got the Bills to the AFC championship just like the other one did. But, yeah, Taron Johnson to the house when the. They're driving to tie the game was incredible.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Sitting there in my basement watching the game was just a surreal. You kind of look back now, you know, I know that people have been doing the. The five year. Like, what it was like five years ago, but watching that game with what, 7,000 people in that. In that stadium.

[Dan Fates]

You were there.

[Jenna Cotrell]

They're driving down the field, and I just remember, like, the Zoom interview afterwards with Taran. Like, that's just something that, like, I'll never forget.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Like, Renee being like, they won. And I was like, yeah, shut up. I'm on. Hang on. I'm out of Zoom. I. I gotta ask Taran a question. And just that kind of a moment was huge.

[Dan Fates]

I feel like you did a screen grabs of Terrence.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Of Terrence faces, and they were like.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Jenna Cotrell]

About, like, what was going through your head as you're running down the field. And he has the convoy of. Of Trey White leading him down the field was just awesome.

[Mike Catalana]

I want to ask you guys, I. You might have mentioned on the podcast, when I was away on vacation, Taran, at that time was wearing number 2024.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Correct.

[Mike Catalana]

Terrell Bernard changing that number.

[Dan Fates]

We talked about.

[Jenna Cotrell]

He's gonna look smaller.

[Mike Catalana]

43, I thought was kind of a. It's like him. To me, there is a good linebacker that wears eight. Is it for Baltimore?

[Jenna Cotrell]

No, Ingramore. Eight.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

For Miami, it's eight.

[Mike Catalana]

Right. That he's gone with.

[Dan Fates]

I want to ask him, like, the significant single digits.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah, I think he was a single digit at Baylor.

[Mike Catalana]

Okay.

[Jenna Cotrell]

But I can't think of what it was.

[Mike Catalana]

So.

[Dan Fates]

Okay. Was he.

[Jenna Cotrell]

It's. I just remember that Sugar bowl that he was literally everywhere.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. Well, it can't be literally everywhere.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Figurative.

[Dan Fates]

Figuratively. Oh, he was 2. Oh, is he 2? Oh, yeah. Yeah, you're right. Credit to you. Credit to you.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah. I get One. Right. And then just want to, like, brush it onto the table.

[Mike Catalana]

So that is my list. Because you'll talk about finished my five. That was. So I look at that list and I go, okay. Dion was in the first draft. 17 before pre.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yep.

[Mike Catalana]

Diggs was a trade.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yep.

[Mike Catalana]

Outstanding trade. Because at the time, very much needed. And my. And then Taryn was draft pick. And then the other two came in as free agents. Now, the Bills were a different team then.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yep.

[Mike Catalana]

That team had the drought. They brought in guys, McDermott and Whaley, whoever was around.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

At that point, they were. They were needing a lot.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

And Micah was a good player. Taran or Poyer was just. He. He just couldn't stay healthy.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yep.

[Mike Catalana]

Had been around a couple of times. And that was a great find for them and a great combination.

[Jenna Cotrell]

But.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes. And. And it made me think, like, I'm saying to you guys, these other. This other group now can be those guys for.

[Dan Fates]

For Josh, you're like, yeah, my list, I would have Dion Diggs, Shady Poyer, Hyde and Taryn. And obviously Taryn is the only one that was drafted by. By Brandon Bean.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. Because when you look at the draft picks, as we're less than a month away from the draft, the draft that we just talked about, the 22 draft.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yep.

[Mike Catalana]

The Kyrie Lim thing, swinging a miss is a whiff. Not a good pick. The rest of that draft was really good.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yep.

[Mike Catalana]

And they're guys you want to bring back. So an overall big positive, but looking for dudes. That's why I'm thinking there has been a lot of drafts and a lot of draft picks and finding those guys to be those players. And you look around at other teams. You know, McDuffie came in in the draft and Chris Jones came in in a draft. And they're all pro players.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yep.

[Mike Catalana]

And they're dominant players.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yep.

[Mike Catalana]

Big game and dominant players, let alone some of the other guys. Even with the Chiefs that Brad Veach has brought in to help Patrick Mahomes. And when I. You know, we talked about the Eagles and in recent years, the guys they have brought in and draft picks contributing right away.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. Is possible. Oh, to your favorite offensive lineman. I think he may be.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I had him like six. He got bumped down my list because of adding that would be Osiris Torrance. Nailed it. He took like a larger.

[Mike Catalana]

That's an outstanding draft pick.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

I mean, a guy just to plug him in. He plays every game.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Every. Not every game, Mike. Every snap, he's like, yeah. It's just Unbelievable. And that's when you also get to talk, when you hear Dion, who's a guy that has earned the right to come out of games in blowouts. Josh has earned the right to come out of games, to not have to take the beating on his body. And I always remember when dn at the end of his first year, he's like, dude, that dude played every snap. He's like, you don't understand how difficult that is. That when everybody's getting to put on the baseball cap and high five and relax and take the tape off and all these things, like, Sybo's still going back in there, like, constantly, every single snap. That is huge. And that was a guy that I thought we all liked at the end of the first round. And we were like, hey, he'd be a good first round pick. I remember it was like he was a road grader. Like, this guy just moves people and we're, like, sitting there and we will get to some players to keep an eye on. We caught up at the NFL combine. We've been teasing it for weeks, but we'll put it later in this podcast, the Chris Trapasso interview, that Mike caught up with him at the NFL combine, but that was another guy. And when they got him in the second round, I was like, that's a steal. Like this. This seems like a first round offensive lineman grade that you're getting the second round. So, yeah, he was. He was in my top five and then just fell out when I started to bump.

[Mike Catalana]

Some of the other guys want to dismiss a guy. He just. He just plug and play and he's effective and he's a good player and you just don't. It's nice when you have somebody you just don't even really think about in that way, other than, yeah, he just lines up and plays.

[Dan Fates]

No, it's. It's very true. And I feel like a lot of fans would forget about him because he is so under the radar, A, but then B, like, he has been such a constant that it's not, oh, who's gonna win the job? What's the competition like? It's like, it. It's his. It's his job, and he's been at that job every snap.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I was looking at. We have the Bovet got some slack for putting Torrance over James Cook on social media.

[Mike Catalana]

And now that was for the draft, right?

[Jenna Cotrell]

Correct.

[Mike Catalana]

Specifically.

[Jenna Cotrell]

And that was part of what, you know, we. We kind of. That was what Jenna and I think we were going off of a little bit. And we're talking about this because Bovet is a friend of the POD and things like that and. And helping. You know, we like what they do. So would you guys. Are you on Beauvais side or would you put Cook over Torrance for best second round draft picks?

[Mike Catalana]

No, I would say. I. I would be with Matt on this. I would say Torrance, he plays every snap and he's at a vital. I mean, it's guard position.

[Jenna Cotrell]

And again, Cook could pass him.

[Mike Catalana]

Right.

[Jenna Cotrell]

But like, as we enter this season, Cook's had one really good year and Torrance has had two solid really good years.

[Mike Catalana]

And one guy plays 100 of the snaps and the other guy does 40 in the 40s. Right. 43 also.

[Dan Fates]

I love how you say Matt and then you're like, I know.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah, it was weird.

[Mike Catalana]

I know, but it just.

[Dan Fates]

Oh, it's just funny.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes, yes. He is just Bovet.

[Jenna Cotrell]

He's both. Yeah. Worst pick.

[Dan Fates]

You stole my sheet.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah. Worst pick. I was just looking at some of these. You've talked about it before. Kyrie Elam takes the cake because it's the first round in all those things. Boogie Basham is a close. It is a close second round pick.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

When you had already drafted Russo.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

And you double dipped on the D line and Boogie has just. That was short lived.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Can we like go through because. So first round picks. Josh Allen, Tremaine Edmonds, Greg Russo, Ed Oliver, Dalton, Kade, Kyr Elam.

[Mike Catalana]

So only one player in there is bust. A bust. And it was late in the first round. They moved up to get him. That adds the downside. And I made the point in our last podcast because they wanted to see if there's anything there, that he was still on the team and he had to end up playing in the game against the Chiefs and he got torched. And I had somebody comment and say he didn't lose the game. I didn't say he individually lost the game, but he contributed to the loss. And he was out there. And then you now traded him and he's gone. That was the only bad first round pick.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Correct.

[Dan Fates]

They did move up though, to get Tremaine.

[Mike Catalana]

Yep.

[Dan Fates]

To get Kincaid and to get Kair. Obviously they moved up to get Josh as well, but that.

[Jenna Cotrell]

So they've resigned. Five, one, two, four out of the six. And we don't know about Kincaid? Oh, no, we.

[Dan Fates]

They let Josh Gruso. Well, yeah. Josh Rousseau and Oliver.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah, they've all resigned.

[Mike Catalana]

All resigned.

[Dan Fates]

All right, second round. Osiris Torrance, James Cook, A.J. epanessa Keon Coleman, Cole Bishop, Cody Ford, Boogie Basham.

[Mike Catalana]

So the boogie goes with Elam as a bust. Certainly in Buffalo, he was with the Giants. I don't even know if he's.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I don't even know.

[Mike Catalana]

There's obviously still windows open on some of the newer guys.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Cody Ford was bad.

[Dan Fates]

Cody.

[Mike Catalana]

Cody Ford was bad. The other two, I think Cook is a really good draft pick.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yep.

[Mike Catalana]

And certainly we just said about Torrance, so.

[Dan Fates]

Yep, Jerry's still out on Keon and AJ Epanessa. Do you think you got enough value out of a second round pick for him?

[Mike Catalana]

You know, that was highlighted because they didn't have a first that year because they had traded for Diggs. So as Bean would like to say, Diggs was the first round pick, which is fine. And somebody right now is ready to comment that if they would have kept that pick, they could have had Justin Jefferson. Yeah, but I mean, they could have taken Jalen Rager. That's true. But I think AJ is a nice player. Good player, Good to have around.

[Dan Fates]

I think that was not my question.

[Mike Catalana]

No, he's not good enough for that pick.

[Dan Fates]

Okay.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I think that's a little bit of hindsight.

[Dan Fates]

Well, yeah, this is all hindsight.

[Jenna Cotrell]

All right. But I'm just saying, like at the time. And he's been fine. He's been fine. It's been fine.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, fine. Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I also think in, in my defense, in or in AJ's defense, he was the one out of everybody out of that draft class that got screwed over the most. So, like, that was the draft class where they didn't have the training camp, they didn't have the rookie minicamp. He was the one that they wanted him to slim down. He lost too much weight, all those things. So if, if we're going to give. We always talk about reasons, not excuses. If I'm going to give an excuse and a pass to AJ because he has been productive at moments and has made plays but hasn't been good enough. That's fair to say, but he's been fine.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, yeah, I agree. I mean, I think like you get value in later round. Like, I'm just, I'm basing this. Like, if you were to say, was AJ Ebenezer worth the second round pick? No. But then you can go further down and say, was Christian Benford. Did you find value of him in the sixth round? Yes. Like, this is not. Yes, obviously a perfect process, but I just. Looking at some of these guys, it's like the value of what you would expect. I mean, Cody Ford not even on the roster. Boogie Basham. Not even on the roster. Like. And. And that's okay to say that because it's. It's the case. All right. Third round. Spencer Brown, Terrell Bernard, Harrison Phillips, Dawson Knox, Devin Singletary, Dorian Williams, Zach Moss, Dwayne Carter.

[Mike Catalana]

I mean, Carter we don't know about. Zach Moss was an okay player. Actually played better after he left the Bills. That's pretty good. That's a good round.

[Dan Fates]

I mean, Spencer Brown and Terrell Bernard.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

And Dorian Williams. We'll see.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Where he is.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Knox has been.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, Knox has been just a really good player for them.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Solid.

[Mike Catalana]

Really good person to have on this team. Does a lot of things. I don't think. I think. And of course, where the Bills were picking, what year was that?

[Dan Fates]

Dawson was 20. 2018.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yep. He came in.

[Mike Catalana]

So that was after Josh. I'm just. In my mind, I'm thinking the playoff year. So they were picking a little on the later side. So it was later picked in that round. Yeah, I think that's. I think it's a good pick. I think that's not. That's a pretty good. That's pretty good value you've gotten out of the third round.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, I agree. Fourth round Taran, Gabe Davis, Ray Davis.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, that's really good. Gabe was better than a fourth round pick. They made the right move because he stayed at that level. Started out at that level. Pretty good. Good in the early playoffs. Had a tremendous playoff game. But overall they got better. I think they got better than fourth round production for part of the time and made the right move to let him walk.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

It's funny hearing all of these running backs.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Picks on backs.

[Jenna Cotrell]

They've used a lot of picks on running backs. And there's the thought that you got your guy. But does Bean also say, I've been able to find value in the third round and I've been able to find talent in the fourth round of a.

[Mike Catalana]

Back, especially in this year's draft's got a lot of backs. So we'll say what they do.

[Dan Fates]

Okay. Fifth round. Wyatt Teller, Khalil Shakir Saran Neal, Javon Solomon, Tommy Doyle, Cedric Van Pran, Granger, Eddie Ulafocio, Jake From. Justin Shorter, Vosan Joseph.

[Jenna Cotrell]

That sounds like a fifth round.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Wyatt Teller, the one that got away.

[Mike Catalana]

But Jake from when I didn't understand just physically, he just didn't seem like the guy. It's almost like they just took a flyer there.

[Jenna Cotrell]

That's. That's their Georgia player.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes.

[Jenna Cotrell]

We Were sitting there going, no, Alabama. And we're like, do they have anybody from Georgia? Jake from.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Wow. Yeah. He was the Kovid quarterback.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. Yes. Yes.

[Dan Fates]

It was in isolate. That must have been really challenging.

[Mike Catalana]

Jake from State from.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, yes.

[Mike Catalana]

The rest of them. I mean, Khalil Solomon. We'll see. I mean, the hope is that, you know, know year two, he progresses.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. But this, it's like, yeah. Fifth round.

[Mike Catalana]

That sounds like special. If you get a core special teams guy.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

I think the frustration with Neil was physical ability. It was great.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

He just never could connect with the defense. Y to play him as a backup.

[Dan Fates]

Sixth round, Christian Benford, Demar Hamlin. Tyler Bass. Ray. Ray McLeod. Jaquan Johnson. Isaiah Hodgins, Matt Ariza, Tylon Grable, Ron Rashad. Wild Goose. Daquan Hardy, Marquez Stevenson. Luke Tenuda.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I didn't know who Luke Tenuta was.

[Dan Fates]

I'm not gonna lie. Saying these names, I'm like, I haven't said some of these names.

[Jenna Cotrell]

If you told me Luke Tanuda was a linebacker, I'd be like, that sounds right. He's maybe from Boston.

[Mike Catalana]

Offensive lineman, maybe. Yeah. There was a comedian, Judy Toda. But that was way before your time.

[Jenna Cotrell]

But it's funny. You named the first three, and I went, that was pretty solid.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

To find starting talent. How'd it go?

[Dan Fates]

But like, that's. Yeah. For the sixth round, getting Christian Benford.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. The Benford one is outstanding.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

And listen to Mar. Oh, I don't even hold. Start the whole thing.

[Jenna Cotrell]

We've already done it. Yes, We've already done it.

[Mike Catalana]

Tomorrow. That's a good pick in the sixth round.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Great pick.

[Dan Fates]

All right, seventh round. Dane Jackson. Daryl Johnson. Oh, Daryl Johnson. Forgot about him. Remember, they loved him.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Traded to Carolina.

[Mike Catalana]

Yep.

[Dan Fates]

Alex Austin, Tommy Sweeney.

[Mike Catalana]

I love Alex Austin was the wide receiver.

[Jenna Cotrell]

That's Austin pro. And I went, he could be a fullback.

[Mike Catalana]

He could.

[Dan Fates]

Okay, wait, I'm not done. Bale Inspector Jack Anderson. Travis Clayton. Nick Broker. Austin pro.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. It's not good.

[Jenna Cotrell]

That is not good. It's a seventh round.

[Dan Fates]

I mean, the seventh round. Yeah. I'm not.

[Jenna Cotrell]

You're throwing darts at your. Just throwing darts.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. And I do believe that is that round because teams get. Then they're very aggressive with the undrafted free agents.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Well, that's the other thing, too. We've learned from a couple of Rochester guys. You don't want to get drafted in the seventh round. In reality, you'd rather pull your name out of the draft and then get to choose where you Want to be. And you have. They're usually. Those are usually three year deals. So you actually hit free agency earlier as an undrafted player. So seventh round is.

[Mike Catalana]

There is something to be said for being drafted, being drafted and having that attached to you and 100 to the GM.

[Jenna Cotrell]

100.

[Mike Catalana]

But the hills will.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah, they have 10 picks. A seventh rounder is probably not going to make this roster coming up after this draft.

[Dan Fates]

Say that again.

[Jenna Cotrell]

The Bills have 10 picks. I think it's safe to say. We've said it before. They're not. Not 10 players are going to make this. This roster. 10 draft picks.

[Dan Fates]

They did draft 10 players last year.

[Jenna Cotrell]

And how many are still on the team?

[Dan Fates]

I'm not saying. I'm saying they used all those picks, though.

[Jenna Cotrell]

My point is, is that they won't all be on the team.

[Dan Fates]

That's fair. So you should just package them anyways and move up.

[Jenna Cotrell]

That's the only way you should do well, actually.

[Dan Fates]

Well, actually. Well, actually. Okay, this was interesting.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Let us know in the comments what you guys think.

[Mike Catalana]

Do you think we should save Chris?

[Jenna Cotrell]

No, I want to put Chris in.

[Mike Catalana]

Okay. Because that's good.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Because I think we just listed a whole bunch of names. I think it's telling to go into names. So at the NFL combine, we caught up with Chris Trapasso, draft analyst for CBS Sports, to get some names for you. As we are officially one month at the time, we're recording this away from the NFL draft. Here's Chris Tripasso and Mike Catalano.

[Mike Catalana]

So when you look at the Bills coming into the draft, you're thinking defensive line help, maybe wide receiver help. Is that where you see this team right now?

[Chris Trapasso]

Yeah, mostly, I think safety and cornerback too. Especially with the hiring of Ryan Nielsen, who has a long history of playing a lot of man coverage on his defenses. Obviously he's not the defensive coordinator, but we did see late in the season in the AFC title game, tried to play more man coverage. They just didn't have the speed and athleticism. So I think it certainly starts in the trenches. And that's not just going off the super bowl and watching the Eagles, but we always get those copycat kind of philosophies in the draft. D tackle, edge rusher, safety, and then wide receiver.

[Mike Catalana]

So let's talk about the D tackles, the D line in general for this team. They've spent a lot of resources, a lot of money, a lot of draft picks, and they're still not there. Do you. Do you see, as you mentioned, maybe some changes in the staff? Do you sense any sort of change in philosophy and then finding those players that would fit that.

[Chris Trapasso]

Yeah, the one that really sticks out to me is in the Brandon beane and Sean McDermott era, they have normally gone with that bigger nose tackle next to Ed Oliver via a veteran. Whether it be a trade, whether it be a starlettoolay, a Quinton Jefferson. I want to see if in this draft that is really deep even at that kind of niche nose tackle spot, if maybe they just go that route and get a younger, cheaper option to develop on their defense. So that's to me the biggest philosophical change we could see for the Bills. And we still know that Sean McDermott likes to rotate defensive linemen as much as any coach in the league. So I do think with a ton of picks we could see double dips maybe at edge rusher or at defensive tackle.

[Mike Catalana]

Alright, so they're picking late in the first round. They have multiple picks this year, a couple in the second round. Give us, give us a couple of names of guys that you have an eye on that would be available likely in that spot or even if they push into the second round.

[Chris Trapasso]

The first one that sticks out is Michigan nose tackle Kenneth Grant. I mean 6 foot 2 and a half, 6, 3, 3:30, but he moves like he's closer to 300 pounds. So I think the Bills would be intrigued by just having that size next to Ed Oliver who can still disrupt on the inside. They kind of haven't had that player and the edgersher group, I think, I think we will get to see here in Indy a range of where these players are going to ultimately go based on how they test. The three cone drill is so big for edge rushers, so pay attention to that. The vertical, the 10 yard split, it's hard to really peg specific players at this point who would be available after the combine though we'll have a good idea who certainly won't be there or guys that could fall to them at 30 or with one of those two picks in the second round.

[Mike Catalana]

So the Bills have had a tendency to want to trade up and get guys. And I know this draft seems to have the overall mindset that it might be deeper, but maybe not the higher end players. Is there somebody out there for this team that you would think, boy, if they're going to make a move up on the defensive line, whether that's an edge rusher or an interior player, that they would at least have some interest in trying to make a move.

[Chris Trapasso]

My favorite, who I also think fits what the Bills want is James Pierce, the edge rusher from Tennessee, he's going to be a little bit underweight, maybe 2 50ish range, but he's like 6 foot 5 back to back years with a pressure rate of over 20% in the SEC, which is an incredibly high number. All the tools are there. He kind of fits the mold of a Spencer Brown or Dawson Knox that have all the athleticism but need to be really developed in terms of the nuances of playing their position. And right now pre combine, there's not an insane amount of buzz for him where the Bills would have to trade up into the top 10 or something crazy astronomical. But if he's there mid portion of round one or into the 20s, that would make a lot of sense for someone that I think has the raw skills to be good in year one, but in year three could be like an all pro type edge rusher.

[Mike Catalana]

Let's go into the secondary because we're not sure at this time, you know, we're still. Doug Douglas is a free agent. Obviously I think they want to get Benford signed maybe to a longer term deal. But in terms of the type of player that they may look for, we know the type they've had at safety, we know the type they've had at corner. Do you believe any of that changes? You talked about playing more man coverage and do you see players out there maybe not even in the first round, but that look like a Bills type of player?

[Chris Trapasso]

Yeah, that's a really good question because this, this is the first potential philosophical shift that we could see in the secondary in the whole Sean McDermott era because of like again the hiring of Ryan Nielsen and that they wanted to play more man and did play more man in the playoffs at corner. I think there are those types in that range and we're going to see some low 4, 340 inch vertical type players that maybe aren't perfect prospects right now. Maxwell Harrison from Kentucky is one, Azaria Thomas from Florida State another that they don't look like finished products. They look like guys though that Sean McDermott, if they do want to play more, man would love to get his hands on two other names at corner. Siobhan Revelle from East Carolina. And my personal favorite for what the Bills would should be kind of gravitating toward. Benjamin Morrison from Notre Dame probably would have been an early first round pick had he not gotten injured. He got injured like late September, early October. Man coverage goes through the roof. So I think at that position and its safety probably won't see as much change they have Cole Bishop, they have Taylor Rapp under contract. But at corner, there's a lot of intrigue because they're going to want a different type of cornerback this year.

[Mike Catalana]

So if the draft was held now and Kyer Elam was in the draft, would he, based on his history, be the type of player. Player. If you're going to make this philosophical change that they would have been looking for, you're following where I am.

[Chris Trapasso]

Sure that's an even better question. I think the pitfalls with Kyer Elam was that and in the SEC he was so big and so long and so physical, he could suffocate even really talented SEC receivers at the line. In the NFL, all the receivers can get off the line of scrimmage in terms of athleticism, speed, burst, change of direction, skill. That was really not Kyer Elam's strengths. Like he was not this ultra twitchy, big time athlete. There are those types in this class. Maybe they're not going to be able to suffocate wide receivers at the line and press coverage, but being able to mirror those wide receivers, which has been a problem for Elam, I think they're a lot better and there's more to choose from in this draft.

[Mike Catalana]

All right, last one. We got to always talk Bills and wide receiver because they still have figured out the outside. You know, I mean, Matt Collins got a lot of those snaps last year. Are there players out there that you look at for the Bills with three picks in the first two rounds that if you say they're looking for that outside guy, maybe would fall to them? Maybe you pick them up in the second round. Give me a couple of names of guys.

[Chris Trapasso]

Okay. My favorite, maybe my biggest draft crush to date, Jack Bash from tcu reminds me almost exactly of Puka Nakua and I've gotten some pushback on it.

[Mike Catalana]

Like whoa, whoa.

[Chris Trapasso]

Puka Nukua. Puka Nakua was a fifth round pick, did not test very well, but does all those gritty things very well. The back shoulder, like crazy catches we saw against the Bills yards after the catch ability, the ability to bounce off tacklers. Jack Besh from TCU does that in spades. He's my favorite, like early round two wide receiver. We'll see how he tests. Could that push him up into the first round or if he doesn't test very well, are we talking about him later in round two? Think he would work very well. He's big. He's like six'1, 210 pounds. And the other Ameca Egbuka everyone's seen him the last couple years at Ohio State. You talked about Mack Hollins, tremendous blocker on the outside. So many of those screen plays and outside runs for Travion Henderson and Quinshon Junkins were really sprung because I Buka is big and physical and really gets after it. But then as a receiver, vertical threat, and I think that's the one thing that we can all agree beyond just not having that X presence on the outside. The Bills did not have a big time downfield presence this past season. Egbuka should test pretty well. He's not going to be Terry McLaurin fast. He's not going to run 43 like low 4 threes. But he's big, tracks the football very well. Just a polished wide receiver like a lot of the Buckeyes wide receivers have been.

[Mike Catalana]

All right, you're going to have a lot of content leading up the draft. Always ask, let everybody, everybody know where they can follow you.

[Chris Trapasso]

CBSSports.com NFL-DRAFT on Twitter. I'll be probably tweeting way too frequently for most followers, but this is my time to completely nerd out here in Indy.

[Mike Catalana]

All right, Chris, thanks for your time. Thanks.

[Dan Fates]

All right. Thank you, Chris, for that interview.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. And listen, Chris is really good. He updates his stuff all the time. I know they have him on One Bill's Drive.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yep.

[Mike Catalana]

Maybe we'll even get a chance to get him again before Live at One Bill's Drive. It's One Bill's Live.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Mike Catalana]

I once called our show One Bills Draft Show. Draft show. Yeah. It was a bit of a scramble.

[Jenna Cotrell]

We didn't submit that one for an award.

[Dan Fates]

No, we did not. Also, you can follow him on Twitter at Chris. At Chris Trapasso.

[Mike Catalana]

So it's you and me. It's not him screwing up here.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I already did.

[Dan Fates]

Okay, let's do credits Me.

[Mike Catalana]

Why do I have to go first?

[Jenna Cotrell]

Because you bet lead off. Like, you're. You're the. You're the Jeter. Like, it's like, hey, I thought it.

[Mike Catalana]

Was more of the Schwarber. It's either a home run or strikeout.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Do you hate anything? Do you hate anything today?

[Mike Catalana]

Oh, no, no. I'm in a good. I'm in a good mood. So here's. Here's where I think credit to me, I think I have a rational take on athletes speaking to media. Now, we do this podcast here, and you know that we all work for a TV station and a lot of times we interview the players. Certainly we interview the Bills. We interview all athletes. Hockey players, sometimes it's high school players, whatever it is, before, after games. So there was a circumstance with Colin Morikawa, the golfer, and he finished second in a tournament, had a bad ending. When it was done, he did go sign some autographs, and then he left without talking to the media. And it's a different circumstance in golf than it is in other sports because you don't really have a team like it's you and you're playing. And we've covered golf tournaments too, here in Rochester, the major championships that have been here. So the reason I brought it up is Colin Morikawa. The next week, after he didn't speak to the media, talked to the reporters, talked about why he didn't speak to the media, and he said, listen, I was basically pissed off, mad at myself, didn't want to talk to anybody, was angry, didn't want anybody coming up to me saying, don't worry about it, Nice job. He was done. But then he added to the reporters, I don't think I owe anybody anything for interviews. And I think that's the point where, in my opinion, he takes it a step farther than it belongs. I think he has every right to say, I was pissed off, I was angry. The reason I brought up myself and turned this into a credit for me. I've said this to Dan and Jenna. When we're talking to a player on a Sunday after a game, if he's pissed off because something happened, he didn't play well and he's kind of a jerk, or he's mad, or he turns to us and says, fellas, I got nothing to say today. Blah, blah, blah, fair, man. Unless he, like, missed the game winning field goal, which Tyler Bass spoke when he did that game, tying one in the playoffs. Unless it was specifically about him. I'm always like, I'll cut the guy a break. Especially if he's somebody who normally talks and speaks for himself. The reason I brought up no teammates is because normally what happens in a sport like football, if we don't get that player to talk, we're going to go to his teammates and then they got to talk. For, like, Stefan Diggs leaving before the media was there when they lost that Bengals game. Not cool. I thought so that's the way it is. So my take on it is I try to get in the mind of a player. I think I always say to Dan and Jenna, if you're a jerk on Wednesday, you're probably a jerk, because Wednesdays are practice days. You might be in a bad mood, but you didn't just play a game, but Sundays are different. And we got to understand it's a physical, tough game.

[Dan Fates]

Emotional.

[Mike Catalana]

Very emotional. So I do try to think that way. I don't think they specifically owe us. Like, you've got to talk to reporters, but every one of those golf reporters is going to be there pumping him up when he wins a championship. Then you're not there when it falls apart at the end. It should be where you feel a responsibility to say, I need to speak for myself. I think they cut you a break when you had a tough day and you come back the next time and talk. But I do think there is, as Jenna likes to say, two things can be true at the same time. And I think that's the way it should work. Sometimes people are too hard on the players. But I don't think I like hearing a player say, I don't owe anybody anything.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Mike, you've been doing this for 100 years. Like, the fact that you would understand the tone of. Of which to ask a question. You're not going to sit there and kick a guy while he's down. Because breaking news, we weren't on the field, and we're not able to play football at a professional level or play on the PGA Tour at that level. So it's not like you're sitting there trying to talk down to somebody and be like, why don't you hit a seven iron there? Like, what were you thinking? Like, it's like, I was trying to get the ball in the hole. Like, that's what I was thinking. So I do think that unfortunately, some of those questions, and we've seen it in our media that have ruined press conferences. Than when you're trying to get the story out and do our job and.

[Mike Catalana]

Understand what the player's going through at that moment.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yes.

[Dan Fates]

Be a human.

[Mike Catalana]

By the way, I do want to shout out Kair Elam, man, when he played, got rocked in that game in London, he stood right there and talked about. And that wasn't the only time he did that. Did not have a great Bills career. But I give him credit.

[Jenna Cotrell]

He's never shied away.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. Which I respect.

[Mike Catalana]

And he wasn't a guy. And he was not a guy. We were always going to. Because he wasn't a starter. So it wasn't like he was the main guy. And. And he always talks and then shuts up when he has a bad game. So I thought that was cool. And I think his pre. His teammates appreciated that.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, that's. I was. Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I respect that credit to my wife.

[Dan Fates]

My wife.

[Jenna Cotrell]

My wife. This is fitting. Going off yours.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

She bought me new golf clubs.

[Mike Catalana]

Really?

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Wow.

[Jenna Cotrell]

So I don't know any of our subscribers, like comment, subscribe are like this. And Jenny, you're probably the exact opposite because I think you're much more like my wife. She buys everything. Like if she has the thought of like, oh, I need to get a new coat, winter coat, something like that, Boom, there's three from Amazon that are at her house, at her house in a blink. And then she returns them, buys three more and we do that whole thing. And I sit there and. And I'm the, the schlep that has to bring them back to Amazon. The whole thing, right. I'll sit there and say, I need a new winter coat. And then for five months one will sit in my cart, online, wherever, same thing. And then it gets to be summer. It's like, well, I don't need the winter coat anymore. Like, I just don't.

[Mike Catalana]

I don't buy things, save money that way. Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

And I'm also the one that you're cold that way. I.

[Mike Catalana]

That's true.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Well, I have. Oh, I coat. So it's like, this is fine. I'm the type person that I like to spend my money on going out to eat, dining experiences, doing events, things like that. I don't need to tangibly hold something. I like to gamble. I'd rather spend my money on that. Which my wife cannot wrap her brain around the fact of those kind of things. But I've been saying for a while, like, I really used some new golf irons. We had golfed quite a bit. I have never had new golf clubs in my entire life. I'm a lefty. So I always got hand me downs from people they see, oh, you're a lefty here. I got these clubs for it. That's what I've always used that talk about these Tacoma irons. And they're all over Instagram. They're this brand new set, all these things. And I was like, oh, I should really get these. We got our tax money back. I was like, maybe I'll use a little bit and get golf clubs. But nah, I don't really need them. Like, come on. And all of a sudden get an email. Tacoma irons are on their way. Wife bought them for me.

[Dan Fates]

That's sick.

[Jenna Cotrell]

So shout out to Renee because she goes, you'll never buy them. And I went, you, you're right. Because I just would never do it.

[Mike Catalana]

Want to get him out of the house a little bit. Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

She's like, go golfing.

[Jenna Cotrell]

She goes, well, now, like I told you, you're gonna have to go golfing now. Oh, darn. Oh, no.

[Dan Fates]

So she said that.

[Jenna Cotrell]

She said that. Oh, we went to black there for a second. But yeah, yeah. She's like, you, I want you to go golfing now.

[Dan Fates]

That is so true. Zach is the same way, though, where he's like, he never buys anything for himself, but then what he does, you do. You do a lot of research.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Like, and Zach says, so much research.

[Mike Catalana]

Too much. And then last night I was like, speaking of, I was looking at shooter.

[Dan Fates]

Shoot, by the way, I just buy.

[Mike Catalana]

I'm going to. Jenny, what do you think of this? Oh, that's really nice. You should get it. Like, yeah, card. It's like. And then I get those emails. Did you forget something? No, I'm just not buying it.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I just don't buy everybody's like, have you always been that way? And I was like, growing up, I was the kid that got his 10 allowance and it was gone.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

And I think just over time it's like, well, now I just, like, I don't need another shirt. I. I have a shirt. Like, I don't need a. This. Like, I. I just don't buy things, shoes, anything like that.

[Mike Catalana]

We might as well be speaking foreign language to her.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. No. Well, especially with a wedding.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

What's another $500?

[Jenna Cotrell]

So I was very. And who knows? These Tacoma irons are this new social media kind of thing, direct from consumer or direct to consumer kind of things. We'll see who knows how good they are. And I was texting my buddy, shout out Corey, because he helped set it up with Renee. Different levels.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I go, we golf, we go. But what?

[Dan Fates]

We all get together once a week. I feel.

[Jenna Cotrell]

I was gonna say once a week at least every other week. So I only golf 20 rounds a year. I go, I don't need. I'm not gonna spend 1200 on a brand new set of irons. That's not my game. 12, 13 handicap. That's not what it's for. But these ones were like 580. That's not bad for a brand new set of irons.

[Dan Fates]

Really?

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. And let's see, if they. If they're great, you credit Renee.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

If they're not, you blame the irons.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Exactly.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Like, Corey's my friend. Corey's a scratch golfer and he's like, I don't know about these and that. I was like, it ain't Gonna change my game either way. Like, they're just gonna look sweet and shiny in the bag.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

That's what they're gonna be.

[Dan Fates]

That's what it's all about. That's why you buy new things, because you're like, wow, I feel awesome.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cotrell]

So shout out to Renee.

[Dan Fates]

All right, well, let's keep it in the family. Shout out Taylor, Dan's youngest daughter, decided to choose me.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Taylor's already got bad judgment.

[Dan Fates]

Stop it.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

No. Dan and Renee very sweetly asked me to be Taylor's godmother, which is an incredible honor. And so we ran out of people.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. You guys are on three. So as a. As a fellow third child. Yes, I. I am excited. So I just want to say thank you and that very much. Looking forward to it. So credit to Taylor, because shout out Taylor. Tremendous judgment, in my opinion.

[Mike Catalana]

Just point it right at you.

[Dan Fates]

I was telling Dan I was like, I need to, like, practice holding a baby.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Renee was saying the other day, she's like, what? Like, what about a.

[Dan Fates]

It's gonna happen. I, I. There's not a doubt. Take the one shot. Take the one shot right now. There's not a doubt in my mind.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Hey, listen.

[Dan Fates]

Not a doubt in my mind.

[Jenna Cotrell]

To all of our amazing subscribers that are mothers, shout out to you. We've always said you were superheroes. There is something that happens, though, in your brain that no matter how bad the pregnancy is, you black it out, box it out, and forget it. And then you think about, oh, it'd be great to be pregnant again. My wife was miserable being all three pregnancies. She hated them.

[Mike Catalana]

Does she say it'd be great to be pregnant again or great to have another baby?

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, I think it's like the end justifies the means.

[Jenna Cotrell]

Yeah, I guess so, because we're getting rid of all the baby stuff. So Taylor, as she's growing out of.

[Dan Fates]

Her, she's not getting rid of it.

[Jenna Cotrell]

She keeps coming back with money. Somewhere. All the. All the dads out there know, like, you know, we were the trenches. Oh, my God.

[Dan Fates]

No. Also going off of that. Of an awesome Buffalo plus fan. Came up to me at Wegmans on Sunday and was so sweet, and she was so excited. She loved Buffalo. Plus, she was there with her daughter. So I am an idiot, and I forgot your name, but I just want to say that you made my day. She literally said, I hope your eye is better. That was so sweet. So thank you. Thank you.

[Mike Catalana]

Did she ask you if you were high?

[Dan Fates]

No. No. Usually happens, though.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

All right. Thank you so much for joining us here. Please be sure to, like, comment, subscribe and share. For Mike Catalana and Dan Fates, I am Jenna Cottrell. We will catch you next time here on the Buffalo plus podcast presented by Connors and Fairs.

[Jenna Cotrell]

This is the Buffalo plus podcast brought to you by Connors and Ferris.