The BILLS plan for PAYING James COOK, chasing a STAR player and why we NEED more 'SPORTS HATE'

Summary

Buffalo Plus Podcast – February 18, 2025

Episode: The BILLS plan for PAYING James COOK, chasing a STAR player, and why we NEED more 'SPORTS HATE'
Hosts: Mike Catalana, Jenna Cottrell, Dan Fates

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Episode Overview

In this lively, opinionated episode, the Buffalo Plus team dives deep into the immediate and future plans for paying running back James Cook, the complexities of the Bills’ roster-building (including how and if they should pursue a “dude” star player on defense), and a passionate plea for the return of genuine “sports hate” from fans. The conversation expertly blends in-depth Bills contract talk with candid humor, relatable analogies, and a healthy dose of locker-room banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. James Cook’s $15 Million “Request” and the Bills’ Running Back Philosophy

• Social Media Scrub & Contract Chess

  • James Cook recently removed the Bills from his Instagram and pinned a comment about seeking $15M/year. Hosts unpack whether this is posturing, a true demand, or a prelude to tough negotiations.
    • Mike Catalana: “All of us have a better chance to make $15 million from the Bills this year than James Cook. He's not making 15 million. That is not happening.” (00:15, 02:28)
  • The hosts agree Cook had an “outstanding year” but that $15M/year would put him among the league's elite pay for running backs—a spot the Bills historically don’t prioritize.
    • Dan Fates: “If he is going to be a guy that makes $15 million and becomes one of the highest paid running backs in the game, there needs to be a philosophical change with the Bills offense.” (05:15)
  • Example: Even with his production, Cook isn’t used as a bell-cow like Saquon Barkley or Derrick Henry.
    • “If you're going to make a guy... $13 million a year, he better be getting 70 plus percent of your snaps.” (05:53)

• Negotiation Tactics & Team Reaction

  • The team sees the social media move as textbook early negotiation jockeying, not something that’ll spook GM Brandon Beane.
    • Jenna Cottrell: “We really just haven't seen someone be so adamant and upfront about ‘this is what I expect.’” (07:00)
    • Mike Catalana: “These are cards people play to get a little attention to it… I don't think [Beane is] looking at his phone going, ‘I can't believe this has happened.’” (07:21, 08:52)

• Salary Escalators & Roster Building

  • Cook’s salary rises this year due to performance escalators from the 2020 CBA; a reason this is the natural window for contract talks.
    • Mike Catalana: “...if we're going to do a longer-term deal, this is the time to do it.” (08:38)

Notable Quote:
“It's February. You'll have more leverage later.... It's way too early to be scrubbing your Instagram.” – Mike Catalana (02:28)

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2. How to Prioritize Bills’ Pending Free Agents

• The hosts examine which of the four key 2022 draft class members should be extended first: Terrel Bernard (LB), Khalil Shakir (WR), Christian Benford (CB), James Cook (RB).

  • Mike Catalana: “There's one answer here. It's Benford, number one. He's a corner.” (21:19)
  • Jenna Cottrell: “Terrel Bernard to me is like the linchpin that gets everyone set… he has been above [expectations].” (21:24)
  • General agreement: Value and scarcity at CB puts Benford at the top, but Bernard’s unique impact as the defensive “linchpin” is not far behind.

• Rousseau’s Fifth-Year Option

  • Mike Catalana: “It's all guaranteed, it's all in the one year. So you have no ability to spread out the cap.” (19:14)

• Reality of Not Paying Everyone

  • Jenna Cottrell: “You may have to play a game where not everybody gets paid.” (18:41)
  • Discuss the risk of letting things ‘play out’ and the possibility of soured relationships.

Notable Quote:
“This is the only time I'm saying is you may have to play a game where not everyone gets paid.” – Jenna Cottrell (18:41)

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3. Should the Bills Chase a Star Defensive Player? “Get a Dude” vs. Building Depth

• The Rousseau Contract Dilemma
  • Spotrac projects Russo at 4 years, $100M—comparable to Montez Sweat.
    • Mike Catalana: “I like Russo on the one-year deal. They couldn’t afford to let him walk. Now they just don’t have anybody agreed.” (31:26)
  • General consensus: He's good but not “great”; overpaying could be a major mistake.
  • Strong skepticism that the Bills will—or should—pay Russo that elite money unless he has a genuine breakout.

Notable Exchange:

• Dan Fates: “My fear is that this is who Greg Rousseau is: a good player, but not a great player, and he may get a great contract.” (38:15)

• Should Buffalo Target a Superstar like Myles Garrett or Maxx Crosby?

  • The possibility of trading for a game-breaking edge rusher is debated.
  • Mike Catalana is wary: “Because of the failed draft picks and… you haven’t hit on those, it makes it tough to go out and make that swing.” (43:29)
  • Dan Fates is all-in on the idea: “I don’t care about depth… I want guys that are just game-wreckers that have one thing that is unblockable… like Maxx Crosby and Myles Garrett.” (45:49)
  • Reality check: With ongoing cap hits for Von Miller and Matt Milano, it’s a complicated financial juggling act.

Notable Quote:
“I want guys that have the 102 mile per hour fastballs. I don't want the pitcher that can throw five pitches… I want guys that have the plus-plus traits.” – Dan Fates (45:49)

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4. The Value of “Sports Hate”

• A major theme at the end is the need to bring back genuine, harmless “hate” for rival teams—not players.
  • Mike Catalana: “I think there needs to be more hate in sports, and I'm talking about hating for a team, not the individual person… There needs to be more of that in sports. Get back to where you despise it.” (36:36, 52:59)
  • He reminisces about loathing the Cowboys and Celtics and celebrates the “sickness” of seeing rival teams lose.

Notable Quote:
“It was borderline with enjoying seeing the Eagles win. It was that good to see them [the Chiefs] lose because of the Bills and because of all that we've seen. I think that's good. I think it's good for sports.” – Mike Catalana (53:44)

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5. Lighter Moments & Podcast Personality

• The hosts share humorous, self-deprecating stories about cheating in school, home improvement mishaps, and overcoming Buffalo winters.
• Dan Fates jokes about looking up how to “grout” his tiles: “I had to Google how to do it. And it was like, what are you saying?” (56:15)
• Anecdotes about Super Bowl re-watching habits, “salary cap isn’t real” jokes, and office banter keep the show grounded in real Bills fandom.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• James Cook Negotiation:
  “It's February. You'll have more leverage later.... It's way too early to be scrubbing your Instagram.” (02:28 – Mike Catalana)

• Philosophy on Paying RBs:
  “If he is going to be a guy that makes $15 million and becomes one of the highest paid running backs in the game, there needs to be a philosophical change with the Bills offense.” (05:15 – Dan Fates)

• On Good Not Great DE Play:
  “My fear is that this is who Greg Rousseau is: a good player, but not a great player, and he may get a great contract.” (38:15 – Dan Fates)

• Sports Hate Rant:
  “I think there needs to be more hate in sports, and I'm talking about hating for a team, not the individual person.” (36:36, 52:59 – Mike Catalana)
  “That is why you, my friend, are a Hall of Famer... Bring hate back.” (53:01 – Dan Fates)

• About the Salary Cap:
  “The salary cap isn't real. You always say if they would, if they wanted to, they would… at some point, bad buys are bad buys for the team.” (43:41 – Dan Fates)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Topic | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------|-----------| | James Cook’s $15M Request & Social Media Tactics| 01:52–07:39 | | How RB Contracts Sway Offensive Philosophy | 05:15 | | CBA Salary Escalators & Roster Building | 07:46–08:51 | | Ranking Pending Free Agents (Bernard, Shakir, Benford, Cook) | 18:41–24:36 | | Rousseau’s $100M Projection & DE Talk | 31:04–38:41 | | Should the Bills Chase a Superstar on Defense | 40:09–44:38 | | The Case for “Sports Hate” | 52:59–54:45 | | Cheating in School & Home Renovation Banter | 19:35–20:55; 56:02–58:39 | | Winter in Buffalo & Closing Remarks | 59:19–60:42 |

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Tone & Takeaways

This episode blends informed analysis with inside-joke warmth and plain-spoken realism. The hosts share a clear-eyed view of Bills roster challenges while keeping the conversation authentic and relatable. Their open disdain for “soft” fandom and “salary cap isn’t real” ideology taps into the emotional core of Buffalo fans.

If you’re a Bills fan seeking honest contract talk, pragmatic views on “going big” for a star, and a reminder to not cuddle up to rivals, this episode is must-listen.

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For more, check out BuffaloPlus.com and subscribe on YouTube.

Transcript

[Dan Fates]

In the time it takes you to actually board a flight from Group 8.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Now boarding Premier Altitude Elite club members.

[Dan Fates]

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[Mike Catalan]

I think he's really good. All of us have a better chance to make $15 million from the bills this year than James Cook. He's not making 15 million. That is not happening.

[Dan Fates]

We see guys have, oh, I agree. Have a good season, and then they're not really heard from again. And sometimes they end up playing in Jacksonville. Like, it's weird. I don't know how that ends up happening.

[Mike Catalan]

Honestly, it's so sad. I look at people as lesser people when they're Cowboys fans or Celtics fans. It's a terrible thing. I'll say to my wife sometimes, look at that poor guy. She'll be like, what's wrong? I go, look. And she'll go, oh, he's wearing a Cowboys hat. Like, it's a sign of bad parenting. We all know that, but it's bad. I think there needs to be more hate in sports, and I'm talking about hating for a team, not the individual person.

[Dan Fates]

That is why you, my friend, are a Hall of Famer. Just. Just open. Mik it on. On your hate. Bring hate back.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, I'm thinking of, like, the NFL. Like, end hate. Mike's like, actually, yeah. No, no, no.

[Dan Fates]

It's.

[Mike Catalan]

It's the real. It's sports hate.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yes.

[Dan Fates]

This is the Buffalo plus podcast, brought to you by Connors and Ferris.

[Jenna Cottrell]

All right, welcome back to the Buffalo plus podcast, presented by Connors and Ferris, Mike Catalan and Dan Fates. I am Jenna Cotrell. Please be sure to, like, comment, subscribe, and share. A lot to talk about in this episode. A lot of guys entering the final year of their contracts. You might know a couple. James Cook, Terrell Bernard.

[Dan Fates]

James Cook's been making some headlines.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. So we got a lot to talk about because there's plenty of players that have been impactful for this Bills team that are looking to get new contracts. Some may be a little bit louder than others, but let's start with James Cook, because this past week, he did the social media scrub of taking the Bills out of his Instagram, all that stuff. Twitter X this league, he had an Instagram live where he pinned his own comment that said Facebook, $15 million a year. So there's that.

[Mike Catalan]

I like James Cook a lot as a player.

[Dan Fates]

That was such a poignant Pause his historic home timing.

[Mike Catalan]

James, James, let's talk here a bit. It's February. You'll have more leverage later. They have the draft. They have free agency. It's way too early to be scrubbing your Instagram. You save that for later. You know, that's the way I look at it is. And I think he's really good. All of us have a better chance to make $15 million from the bills this year than James Cook. He's not making 15 million. That is not happening. He's going to get paid, and he should get paid, and he should make a lot more than he made on his Rookie deal. But 15 million puts you right behind McCaffrey and ahead of Saquon Barkley. Yeah, James Cook had a thousand yards. Saquon Barkley had 2,000 yards.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, he. He got a thousand on his last. Last game. Yeah, he was playing for it.

[Mike Catalan]

We do know, and we said it in the last podcast, he's a playmaker on this team.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Catalan]

He is an important player on this team and should be paid more. He's feeling it a little bit. His brother's egging him on. 15 million. Shoot for 15, take less.

[Dan Fates]

Well, this is also, like, very early on. I mean, we talk about very early on.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Negotiating stage. Like, yes. This is a little bit like you. Like you said, you shoot for the stars. This is like when they were talking about the Bill Stadium, and they're like, they're gonna pay this much. They're like, they're really not. They're really not gonna pay that much. This is what they. They shock you with, and you hope you end up somewhere way more reasonable. Now, I'll say this. We all agree that James Cook had an outstanding year. He has improved vastly. He has turned into why Bean spent a second round pick on him, all of those things. He's cleaned up a lot of the concerns that we had. And like you said, in the grand scheme of offensive playmakers this year, he was right behind the guy named Josh Allen, who was the mvp. So I don't want to, like, take that away by. I'm not a capologist. I don't believe it's real. But I do believe that you set your own value when you're maneuvering the imaginary cap. You're saying, this guy, we're comfortable at this point, and this guy, we're comfortable at this point. You're not going to outbid yourself when it comes to Brandon being and building this roster. So that's where I guess I'm a little Bit surprised. And Mike, to your point of like, the Bills can be very turned off by this and can make decisions otherwise, because if they do, you know, I'm saying my big thing with James Cook is if he is going to be a guy that makes $15 million and becomes one of the highest paid running backs in the game, there needs to be a philosophical change with the Bills offense. They do not see a running back, or at least what we have been, what we have seen that they want a bell cow running back to take 85% of the snaps. I don't know who Saquon Barkley's the guy behind him is because Saquon gets all of the carries. I don't know really who the guy is behind Derrick Henry because that's their bell cow and that's their main guy. That has not been the philosophy of the everybody eats. It wasn't in the wide receiver room. It wasn't in the running back room because everybody got part of that. Yeah, Ray Davis, Ty Johnson, they all had roles. And so if you're going to make a guy, let's say $13 million a year, he better be getting 70 plus percent of your snaps.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. I think the first takeaway was when I saw this story was like, oh, James Cook did an Instagram live. I've never really heard him talk all that much. You know, we ask him questions, but he keeps to himself, which is totally fine. But yeah, I do think first it was Dalvin Cook saying 20 million, then it's James Cook saying 15 million. And look, I get it. Like, that is a piece of like, negotiating is like, I want this number. You kind of shoot for the moon and see where it goes. I think what this will be interesting to watch play out is like, how the Bills approach this because you really haven't seen a guy kind of do something like this in terms of like, would he possibly hold out? Would he hold in? Like, what would this look like? Because there really hasn't been a lot of, like, contrary controversy in Buffalo for the most part.

[Mike Catalan]

I agree with you.

[Jenna Cottrell]

But even that was like, I wouldn't, I wouldn't call that like a controversy. It was just like, how will they play? Like, how will this go him, like, taking away, you know, the Bills from his Instagram. It's. It's silly stuff like this. It's. It's this league. It's, you know, 2025, but it, it seems trivial. And I totally understand why people think that way, but. But it's like we really just haven't Seen someone be so adamant and. And upfront about this is what I expect. And this is where I'm setting my number.

[Mike Catalan]

I guess I just look at it as. These are cards people play to get a little attention to it. The Bills are well aware of what James Cook's contract is now. It does escalate this year because he met certain factors. I think he's up to 5 million this year.

[Dan Fates]

And explain to our listeners this. Because you were even coaching us on this. Mike's more of a capologist because of your. Your nephew.

[Mike Catalan]

Yes, yes. It's about players that are drafted from the second to the seventh round have certain parameters they hit. And there's level one, level two, level three in going into the fourth year of a deal. So all of these guys have hit them. It was a great draft. Bernard Shakir.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, you could, you could. Yeah. Beans Best. Yes, you could argue.

[Mike Catalan]

And so. And Benford.

[Dan Fates]

So in Benford. Yep.

[Mike Catalan]

So you look at it and go, they're all getting bumped up this year in the final year of the deal because they've met it. It's about, you know, they've played like starters, they've outplayed their draft status even in the second round. I mean, they've played like, pretty much like first rounders.

[Dan Fates]

So it's fixed into their contract. So what their original base salary would have been entering year four is now altered not because of negotiations with the team. It is built into the contract through the NFLPA.

[Mike Catalan]

Yes, it was from the 2020 agreement. And so you look at that and you say, well, the number is going to go up. Which I think would also incentivize a team to say, okay, if we're going to do a longer term deal, this is the time to do it.

[Dan Fates]

Yep.

[Mike Catalan]

Because the numbers going up now, you work out a deal, the amount of guaranteed money, the average per season. And listen, I, I know it really, honestly, I don't think, you know, Brandon Bean's looking at his phone going, I can't believe this has happened. I don't think they react like that. I think they know a certain place they want to be. It's a guy going into the last year of his deal. That's when a player should be looking for his new deal. It's the NFL.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalan]

Like you should be, you know, he has the next option, which would be a year from now, which when the team would say, go out there and find something at certain positions. You get out there on the open market, you're getting paid.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Mike Catalan]

I don't think Running back is that position. Certainly not where somebody is going to be like, I mean, think about it. People laughed. Not people. Some people laugh. When the Eagles paid what they did for Saquon Barkley. Sure. Well, obviously he had an incredible season and if anybody would have thought he was going to do that, then it, then it. The salary ended up being fine. But it's a lot of money to pay a running back in this world. We've talked about it. It's the same amount of money that Gabe Davis gets paid as a wide receiver on the open market. Khalil Shakir is going to make a lot more money than James Cook.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah, that's the way it works. Christian Benford's going to make a lot more money than Terrell Bernard. Yeah, it's by position. That's the way it goes.

[Dan Fates]

It's position in the world we in, in the league that they're in.

[Mike Catalan]

Yes.

[Dan Fates]

I do get a kick out of it when they're like this middle of the road MLB player made more than Babe Ruth and you're like, yeah, I'm aware. Yes, yes, yes. This is, this is, this is. Let's also factor in context of what this is.

[Mike Catalan]

Babe Ruth also had one of the all time great lines. They asked him about making more money than the President of the United States and he said, I had a better year than him. Which is. That's very good. He was awesome on Twitter back then. Dave was good on it. Yeah. Beer, hot dog. And he's tweeting. But this is the way it goes. I don't want to make too much of it because. Because the season just ended. Right. And it is. But it is kind of funny to set these things of like, you know, scrubbing the Instagram and I don't see James Cook as that guy anyhow.

[Dan Fates]

Well, some of this could also be from his management team and things like that. We wanted to get into this topic. Mike was like, well, let's also talk about other players too. And Jenna and I were like, it's James Cook. Like, like we, we thought we could possibly do a whole video on James Cook because, I mean, comment in what your thoughts are on James Cook's antics. His, his request for 15 million. What do you think? I think this is a talking point as soon as the season is over. Maybe that's why it's still striking some a nerve with some fans of like, oh, come on, you can't do this. Because some of them are like, hey, James Cook's great. Other people are like, screw James Cook. Like, they're somewhere in the middle. And I'm not going to be somebody on a podcast saying somebody's whatever they're doing to get their money is wrong. When you and I are not fighting over millions of dollars in our contract.

[Mike Catalan]

I want to ask Janet to arbitrate this, because I was going to say to Dan, I didn't find them as antics or talking points yet. I think it's like an Instagram mention, and I get where it is. I don't see him drawn a line in the sand. And he's, okay, look, in Cleveland, he said, I'm asking to be traded. I'm not saying James Cook is. That was. No, there's nothing ambiguous about that. It's like 15 million. Yeah, I love that. How far do you think this is? Do you think this is like, take.

[Dan Fates]

Him to school, Jenna?

[Jenna Cottrell]

No, I. I'm. I'm just like, this isn't an antic to you.

[Mike Catalan]

Then I guess I look at and say, they probably haven't even started talking contract yet. It's February. The season just ended.

[Dan Fates]

So you don't. So you think beans. Like, no problem.

[Mike Catalan]

No, I think he's looking at it, going, okay, we'll talk to the agent. Let's see where we are. It's not like they've already been going and going and going. And now we're into, you know, may, and you're like, what are you doing with James Cook? I mean, we haven't even gotten started yet. I think it's. If you really feel that way and like, you're putting that out there already, I think these negotiations are going to be tough. And I think he's still a running back. As good as he is, he's a running back. And I don't see this team. The reason I wanted to bring up the other guys is because one guy's a corner. You already have it with a defensive end, and you have the guy who calls the plays on your defense, and your defense needs a lot of work and needs a lot of money and a lot of draft picks spent on it. I'm prioritizing that corner, and I want that linebacker back on a good deal. And Shakir was really impactful for them. I don't. I don't think it's at a position or a place where it's going to make beam go, oh, shit, what are we going to do now?

[Jenna Cottrell]

That's. Yeah, I mean, I think we've seen that just from running backs in general, like, the market, that there is. I think Saquon and other guys have made it. Like, you can have a guy that's really impactful and look what that can do for your team, like a Derrick Henry or Saquon. But I think. I don't think. I just. I'm kind of surprised that you're right. Like, it's so early on in the process to be like, 15 million. 15 million. I feel like that doesn't really set the. The table of, like, hey, this is going to be a conversation. It's kind of like, this is what I'm saying. And you can say whatever you want back, but this is a response I expect, which is fine. Like, I'm not. I'm not judging that. I'm just saying that's like, the general tone that I'm getting.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. And like, it is an antic. Like, if it was one. If it was his brother, I'd be sitting there going, all right, no big deal. And if it was one comment about, I'm going to make 50 million. It's pinned. It's the Instagram. It's the combination of things that. It is much more of a negotiation tactic. Sooner than we thought there would be a negotiation taking place.

[Mike Catalan]

I guess that's maybe where I'm at when I say I don't think the Bills will react to it because it's so early in the. To me, it's still very early in the process.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I think we all agree.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Mike Catalan]

So I'm saying is it would have more impact later. I would. And there's no deal done. And he's like, this is what I want. And even if the negotiations start that way, his projected amount is four years, 40 million. I don't know how much of that would be guaranteed. That seems to fit.

[Dan Fates]

I think that's perfect where it is.

[Mike Catalan]

He's up to 3.25, maybe a little higher than that this year with what the amount would be. And I think they can work it out. He was 16th in the league in yards, 19th in attempts.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, that. That's where I go. There needs to be a philosophical change of, like, we're going to have a guy get, like, I. Because some of the times I'd make bets, and I was like, he's really good. When he gets 12 plus carries. There were a lot of games that he got eight, nine carries. That's it.

[Mike Catalan]

Can I ask you guys this? It's not in this circumstance, because I think James Cook's going to be here, and I think they're going to get a deal done. How well do you think Ray Davis would do in that role?

[Jenna Cottrell]

I mean, look, I think James Cook has solidifies himself as, like, a playmaker. Like, I think that he sets a bar that Ty Johnson and Ray Davis would not be able to reach if they were to get the same amount of carries, in my opinion. But that's being said. Like, I think there is upside left for Ray Davis, but I don't think his ceiling is as high as James Cook.

[Dan Fates]

I agree. And it's a beneficiary to a very good offensive line.

[Mike Catalan]

Right.

[Dan Fates]

That has been a part of that. It's tough to say that. Like, I had Ray Davis and our last podcast, we had our superlatives, like most likely to succeed, because I think he's a guy that has that. That high ceiling. But that's. That's a gamble. And we see guys have.

[Mike Catalan]

Oh, I agree.

[Dan Fates]

Have a good season, and then they're not really heard from again. And sometimes they end up playing in Jacksonville. Like, it's weird. I don't know how that ends up happening, but we gotta reset the counter. Zero days since Dan is Chad hall with the Giants.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yes. Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

He did not turn around. That Jaguars wide receiver didn't get a truck?

[Mike Catalan]

I don't think so. Did he get a truck?

[Jenna Cottrell]

I don't know.

[Dan Fates]

That's where they failed.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah. I just look at it and say Bean's got a lot to worry about.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalan]

For this off season.

[Dan Fates]

James is trying to make himself a priority higher up on that.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That priority list.

[Mike Catalan]

Jenna must have some line in her head about what men do or say that would fit what James Cook is doing.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Well, it's literally, if they wanted to, they would.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Like, if they want to. If they value you, they will figure a way to get it all worked out. If they don't, they'll be, oh, it's not enough money. Oh, the salary cap. Like that. That's how it works. That's how you can use the salary cap. As an ex. It can be in a reason, it can be an excuse, but usually it's an excuse.

[Mike Catalan]

So let me ask you this. With these four guys that we're talking about, do you think when you make a decision to say, we're going to let it play out because teams can do that.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalan]

That's a little risky.

[Dan Fates]

It's. It can absolutely sour the relationship.

[Mike Catalan]

You're not always in this position. Credit to Bean, where he's got four players from that draft beyond the first round that are all in a position. Sorry to.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Definitely not the first round.

[Mike Catalan]

Right. So right But I'm saying to him, you're in this spot. There's no fifth year option on these guys.

[Dan Fates]

Right.

[Mike Catalan]

So you're going into the final year of all players that you would want to bring back.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalan]

And that doesn't always happen. It certainly hasn't happened where you've got four of them that you're like, Dan him. You really want them all back. They've outplayed their draft status, I would say. So now you're in this spot. He's saying, okay, do you. Do you say, does it work out that it's like Khalil Shakir doesn't get a deal? Now you're going into the final year of a deal with Shakira. He's getting more money than he was scheduled to make. But I mean, that's the only thing I'm saying is you, you may have to play a game where not everybody gets paid.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I think that's probably what will end up happening in terms of priority list with those guys.

[Mike Catalan]

Where.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Where are you listing them? So for everyone in terms of this, just so we're all aware, Terrell Bernard, Khalil. Shakir. James Cook, Greg Russo, Christian Benford.

[Mike Catalan]

So Rousseau's on that fifth year option.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalan]

Which is.

[Dan Fates]

I'm really slow here.

[Mike Catalan]

So Rousseau's making 13 million this coming year.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Do we want to just do the draft class? Is that easier?

[Mike Catalan]

But Shakir. Okay, you're right. Except the thing about Rousseau is he's going into that fifth year option. A lot of times if teams feel like they want to extend the player, that fifth year option is almost like a franchise tag. It's all guaranteed. It's all in the one year. So you have no ability to spread out the cap.

[Dan Fates]

Hit me cheating on my paper.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I'm not.

[Mike Catalan]

So if you were saying, I used.

[Jenna Cottrell]

To cheat all the time in school.

[Dan Fates]

Shocking.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I know. I'm so shocking. I'm a sports anchor and reporter.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Didn't do well at math.

[Dan Fates]

Not negotiating a 15 million dollar deal.

[Mike Catalan]

Who did you name the one person you cheated off of? There had to be somebody.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Oh, it was like multiple people.

[Mike Catalan]

Really.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

It was whoever.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. She would be like Bridget Claire.

[Dan Fates]

Shout out Bridget.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. She definitely.

[Dan Fates]

I was the dumbest kid in all the smart classes.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah. Barry Hummel.

[Dan Fates]

Shout out.

[Mike Catalan]

Barry was very brilliant. Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Was there an agreement? Like, was. Would you be like, hey, hey, scooch the paper a little bit?

[Mike Catalan]

I think he knew his. By far.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Bridget was always a team player. She's like, yeah, it's fine. Yeah, cool.

[Dan Fates]

I was A kid doing his homework. That was me.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalan]

The reason I bring that up is because that is impactful to all these contracts. If you got 13 million hanging over your head for one guy, you may want to spread that out. So that's the only reason I bring that up, is it plays into it a little bit. But let's stick with just those four guys, okay? They're all going into the last year of his.

[Dan Fates]

Okay, so you're not including Rousseau, then let's not include. He's already set because he was five for me.

[Mike Catalan]

Well, they're already paying him 13 million bucks, so they've made a commitment there.

[Dan Fates]

Okay. Bernard, Shakir, Benford, Cook.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That's your list.

[Dan Fates]

That's. That's my order.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I would go Bernard, Benford over the other names.

[Dan Fates]

Shakir and Cook.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I love Khalil Shakir, but I think. Well, I say that, but it's obviously been an.

[Mike Catalan]

There's one answer here. It's Benford, number one. He's a corner.

[Jenna Cottrell]

No, I get it. I'm just saying, like, for your defense, Terrell Bernard to me is like the linchpin that gets everyone set. Every. Like, he has been above. I agree. Like, normal speaking, it would be Christian Benford. But I think what you've seen from Terrell Bernard and how impactful and important he is.

[Mike Catalan]

Love Bernard. He's the best linebacker. I think he's incredibly important to the defense, but he's not a corner. You get a corner that plays.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Okay, sorry.

[Mike Catalan]

Linebackers can get on the open market. They get paid. They don't get paid like corners. You see what the number is. This is why you prioritize. Benford, he's your number one corner. He's your. Your only number one corner. They're going to let Rasool walk. They have to get him signed. I would say, because if he gets the closer that guy gets to free agency, he's going to walk.

[Dan Fates]

I. I talk about most valuable player to your defense, but the money. All agree that it's. That it's Bernard.

[Mike Catalan]

And this is the other part I'm going to say to you is it depends on how much you want to lose him. Nobody wants to lose Bernard. They're going to get him signed, I believe. Correct. But Benford is. He's a priority because the position is a priority and you don't want to hear it. But defensive end is a priority, too, because someone will pay him. Now, you may make the decision and say, we don't want to sign him. Yes. And I get that. But that pl that position is a priority. There's no question. The positions of pass rusher and corner.

[Dan Fates]

100, 100%. I agree. I, I also think, I mean the Bills went out and had a number one temporarily in Rasul. Rasul is very good that you can find some of those guys in the market.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah. So if they're number ones, you usually end up. I mean they trade you use the draft capital for him.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalan]

Now I say that I don't believe they're going to sign him. I don't think they are. But I guess we'll find out if at the right amount of money, I think they would bring him back.

[Dan Fates]

Absolutely.

[Jenna Cottrell]

You talking about Raul?

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah. But they may. I think they do want to increase athleticism and speed in the secondary.

[Jenna Cottrell]

If you're going to pay, I would rather you way rather you pay Christian Benford than Greg Russo.

[Mike Catalan]

Oh, I, I'm prioritizing Benford over him. I'm saying is because of the fifth year option, which is, I think sometimes where teams like to get out of that late first round.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Mike Catalan]

Because you don't deal with that. But they made this decision right away that they were going to do this and pay him for this year. It's probably the smart thing. It's almost like a smaller franchise tag for the year.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. And I think you are right. Like I'm a big Benford fan and so Maybe it is 1A and 1B. To me, those, those are the top of the list of guys to get done.

[Mike Catalan]

1.

[Dan Fates]

Because of the value, like you said, you're right. Value at the position and then value to the team and, and the linebacker, the unit I, I think is massive. You've seen what they're like when he's not out there.

[Mike Catalan]

Oh, I, so I love the player and I, I just. When you look at, when you look at the projections and you just know there's so many teams around the league that would say I need a corner, I need a corner, I need a corner.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, yeah. You know, that's totally fair. Yeah, I hear you. I just, I think specific to the Bills what Terrell Bernard brings. It would be really hard to replace a guy like that. It's also very hard to replace a Christian Benford because I think sometimes you take for granted because he's so good that you're like, oh, cats. Yeah, yeah, Villanova.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah, yeah. But they have big decisions to make on this and how you structure all these deals in order to whether whatever else they do in free agency. And just to say to yourself how many I guess this is the year for them defensively to make big decisions on these players.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Mike Catalan]

And you say that about Greg Rousseau. Maybe what works best for the Bills is to let him play this year out, bite the bullet on the 13 million on the cap. And if he walks and it's too much money and he has a great year and it's too much money, well, somebody will sign him to a lot of money, and you'll end up getting a compensatory pick for him or a good chance for that.

[Dan Fates]

But that hasn't happened in recent history.

[Mike Catalan]

I know, but it has happened for some players.

[Dan Fates]

I mean, it's happened in Buffalo. Tremaine Edmonds.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, I was just say Tremaine.

[Mike Catalan]

Right. Oh, I'm, I'm just saying is they.

[Dan Fates]

Went, they literally let him play it out.

[Mike Catalan]

Right.

[Dan Fates]

Somebody said on this channel like that there would be, you know, a guy that was a draft pick that would be taking the, the spot.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Did you guys, Was that right?

[Jenna Cottrell]

But actually, Mike said before that, though, when they pay Milano, they only usually pay one of those guys.

[Mike Catalan]

Yes, but in the, in terms of this, who's taken Russo spot.

[Dan Fates]

That'S a bigger problem for Bean to, to figure out.

[Mike Catalan]

Well, that's what I'm saying a lot.

[Jenna Cottrell]

About a lot of things.

[Dan Fates]

So that's where.

[Mike Catalan]

And by the way, in fairness, dan knew before McDermott or anybody else, because they weren't sure on Bernard until they got him out on the field. Remember that?

[Jenna Cottrell]

It was like him and Tyrell Dodson.

[Mike Catalan]

Tyrell Dodson? Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Isn't that crazy?

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalan]

And then they, and then Bean was like, hey, remember what Dan Fates said a year ago? And he flipped them up. Sean was like, he flipped them up. Damn right. Let's go with what Fate said.

[Dan Fates]

He's like, hey, this idiot on Buffalo plus has been fire in some hot takes. Let's give this guy a shot.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Do you have any for the upcoming season, Dan?

[Dan Fates]

I don't know.

[Jenna Cottrell]

You're way too early. Hot take.

[Dan Fates]

No. Maybe that's, maybe that's next.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Are you, are you maturing?

[Mike Catalan]

Okay, so we're back and forth here a little bit. Did you guys both have Benford too?

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, like one or two. And then I think we all have Shakir over Cook.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I, I, I love Coil. Shakira.

[Dan Fates]

We all have that. We're all saying that he is a.

[Mike Catalan]

Vital player to the wide receiver position because.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I agree.

[Mike Catalan]

But they need somebody above him and below him.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I agree.

[Mike Catalan]

He's like that two.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Mike Catalan]

Right.

[Dan Fates]

Be nice if there was a Tight end that they also have that could also help elevate Shakir.

[Mike Catalan]

I heard that's Josh Allen's fault.

[Dan Fates]

That's right.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, that's. That's.

[Mike Catalan]

No, no, Jenna, the numbers tell you Josh throws shitty passes to one guy on the team. Right.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Go off kid.

[Mike Catalan]

Well, they're all. He's the only guy that gets the uncatchable balls everybody else had. I mean, Matt Collins looked like a second round draft pick two years ago.

[Dan Fates]

Yep.

[Mike Catalan]

Khalil Shakir, fantastic. Right. But when Josh was thrown, it's like, screw Kincaid. I'm flying this one over his head.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I also saw some takes of like, Joe Brady needed to get him more involved. And I was like, it's funny because if you catch the ball, it does come your way more often.

[Mike Catalan]

Matt Collins, all Josh Allen's fault.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. He wasn't. He wasn't great this year.

[Jenna Cottrell]

No. And I. I don't want to say, like, he will never be great because that's not the case, but I think it's okay to say, like, I was disappointed in what I saw this season.

[Mike Catalan]

You met in Josh Allen throwing uncatchable balls.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yes.

[Mike Catalan]

Oh, I've been told all the time. It's like when we criticize, like. And let me tell you something, you got to go deep as a Bills fan to be criticizing Josh because a lot of people don't criticize Josh for anything.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Mike Catalan]

And now you're going to say, this is why tight end one.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalan]

In their depth chart, didn't have as good a year. It's because of the MVP quarterback.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Mike Catalan]

Okay. I'm just want to make sure I got that down right. So Josh, get working on that in the off season.

[Dan Fates]

Do you want to fight now? I mean, you are fir. You said you're not feeling 100%.

[Mike Catalan]

Not 100% today.

[Dan Fates]

You are.

[Mike Catalan]

But this is making me feel better. Yeah, it's making me feel better. All right.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Get some other stuff off your chest. What else? Sorry. I'm like a cat. That scared me.

[Dan Fates]

There was some loud noise.

[Jenna Cottrell]

There was a loud noise.

[Dan Fates]

Well, how many times watch Super Bowl?

[Mike Catalan]

So my wife says to me, are you really watching it again? And I said, I grew up where every time there was one of these super bowl highlight shows and it would show Ron Jaworski throwing the pass intercepted by Kenny King. Like, they played the Raiders in that game. It was just brutal. It's the only time they had made the Super Bowl. Then they make it again when I took my dad to the game and they lost that game. So there's good plays in that game no one wants to see. If you're a Bills fan and the old Super Bowls, come on. There is no play that you enjoy watching because you know what the result is when you lose? Then you win and you're like, oh, this is cool. This super bowl will never be matched by the Eagles. Never. Yeah, yeah, it was. I won't say perfect is close, but you can't play better than they did and destroy a team as great as the Chiefs in the game.

[Dan Fates]

We're going to need to get the counter going again.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. For both the Eagles.

[Mike Catalan]

Well, it's like.

[Dan Fates]

So I was watching the super bowl again. It's like, oh, where are you?

[Mike Catalan]

Well, Jenny says to me, who watches it over again? I'm like, I have just.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I would watch it, like, because every.

[Mike Catalan]

Time I flipped it on, there was a good play because that's just the way that game ended up going. One, one.

[Dan Fates]

One more player I want to talk about. Cause I did just want to have let you go off because you're cooking. Let's fight about Rousseau.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah, that's fine.

[Dan Fates]

I feel like we've. We've had this discussion.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Ding, ding, ding.

[Dan Fates]

I feel like we've had this discussion a little bit, but it's. I think it's something that comes up with spot track saying that his contract would be in the range of four years, $100 million.

[Mike Catalan]

That is based on him being a first round pick. Montez sweat is the comp.

[Dan Fates]

Yep.

[Mike Catalan]

Montez sweat is a pretty good player. Not great. I like Russo on the one year deal. They couldn't afford to let him walk. Now they just don't have anybody agreed. I like them on this deal if they can make it work and it doesn't cost them somebody else. I guess I would look at it and say if Greg Russo goes crazy this year and you have to keep them and you pay him, figure it out. In all likelihood, no matter how he plays, they may need to let him walk. Either he plays well enough that it's like crazy money or not good enough that you just let him walk anyhow, whatever the, Whatever the deal is.

[Dan Fates]

I said that was the exact case with Tremaine Edmonds when they let him enter that deal. I said the best case scenario is he balls out, he leads them with tackles and does all these things and he prices himself out of it. Because Bean is a guy that normally the contracts don't come up until their year. Like normally he gets them done before they're entering their contract year. He's done it with multiple players that he has drafted. He gets the deal done. So it's not this awkward contract, final year kind of thing. But he didn't sign Tremaine. And that was a big telling point where I was like, they're not going to resign him and he had another Pro bowl year and he hit the market. What the big thing is, is with Greg Russo and I see a lot of similarities in, in my opinion with the Tremaine factor is they're going to hit the market at 25.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

That is you. There will be a team that will see him as being their cornerstone of their defensive line at 25 years old, and maybe his best football is still to be in front of him. But I think the Bills will at some point have to draw the line of, we think he's worth $19 million and there will probably be a team that says he's worth 22, 23.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

And I don't.

[Mike Catalan]

I agree with all that you're saying there. I just think he has the potential to be better because he is young and developing still. And I look at it and I go, he's. He's the best defensive end on the team. Go draft a couple this year. Go get me somebody that you can replace him easily. Or at least simply where you say, this guy is going to get the snapshot.

[Dan Fates]

So he was telling me before, and he's like, I think you were saying that there's some ego involved in the GM world where you draft, you develop, and then you let the guy walk. Okay. And I don't.

[Mike Catalan]

This is not specifically to Brandon Bean. I think any general manager has a feeling of, this is a guy I believed in, I still believe in. Sure. I get that you can't do that with Kair. Right. That has been a failure.

[Dan Fates]

Correct.

[Mike Catalan]

You know, it just hasn't worked. But when you have Ed Oliver, you sign him. Tremaine was an interesting one because they had traded up to get him and.

[Dan Fates]

He was pretty good.

[Mike Catalan]

He was good.

[Dan Fates]

He was good.

[Mike Catalan]

Not great.

[Dan Fates]

Greg's good.

[Mike Catalan]

Yes.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Not great.

[Mike Catalan]

Good.

[Dan Fates]

Like, that's. That's where. And you made the point of like, the ego. What's worse than making a mistake? And I'm not saying Greg's a mistake would be doubling down on that mistake and paying $100 million. Oh, I don't.

[Mike Catalan]

I don't expect them to do it now.

[Dan Fates]

Okay. And again, there is still possibly, I mean, more than likely a full season to get to be played to before you need to make that decision. And again, you could be, you know, stepping on the rake because he could ball out and his price could go up through the roof. But I looked at it like they don't hand out a whole lot of hundred million dollar contracts like. So the Bills have three of them on their books. It's Allen, Vaughn and Cooper. Cooper was a trade. It's the end of the. It's the end of it. Vaughn was a. Was a mistake. Like Vaughn didn't pay out and Josh is the MVP. So. So to think about the next guy getting $100 million as Greg Rousseau, to me, I don't see it happening in Buffalo.

[Mike Catalan]

So the part of that reason is who would you be signing? It's going to be a defensive end and potentially not that much for a corner and a quarterback. Like that's the positions you pay that much money to. You're not paying that to a safety. You're not paying that to a linebacker. Interior, defensive line. You got to be Aaron Donald.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalan]

To get that kind of money.

[Dan Fates]

So like there's not a. The Bills don't have a ton of guys that are making 20 plus million dollars a year.

[Mike Catalan]

Well, but that's why I'm saying is it needs to be at a position where you would pay that much and they certainly haven't had, I guess you'd have to say an elite number one wide receiver. I don't know what was Diggs making? Diggs had to be making.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. North of 2020.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah. But it has to be that. There's only a few positions where you get to. That defensive end happens to be one.

[Jenna Cottrell]

So I just worry you would overpay.

[Mike Catalan]

I do too. And I don't want to see them do it. And I think they buy themselves that year. But if you're being. You got to be sitting there looking. Caps not real until it is real. In these moments where you're sitting there going, yes, it's 13 million and his agent comes to you and you come up with a deal. I do think there is in your mind the ability to say, let's get this done now. Lower the cap number this year and spread it out for five years.

[Dan Fates]

I just wouldn't do that.

[Mike Catalan]

He may not do it. He may be very content to do it this way because that's.

[Dan Fates]

That could be doubling down on a mistake.

[Mike Catalan]

But you also look at it and.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Say you think that's a mistake.

[Mike Catalan]

He says if you sign him.

[Dan Fates]

So. So to lower that cap number this year, you. Then we say you're kicking the can down the road.

[Mike Catalan]

Right.

[Dan Fates]

But you could be kicking the can down the road with a player that's now older and, and isn't panning out like you're, you're banking on Greg continuing to develop.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

And continuing to ascend. And this just may be what Greg ceiling is. It may be an eight sack season. Like that may be the best that you get out of Greg Russo.

[Mike Catalan]

Do you think they ever considered not picking up his fifth year option?

[Dan Fates]

No.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, I don't think they did. Just because I think they, they still believe. I think they do believe in him and that he's young and all that stuff.

[Mike Catalan]

But I also think part of the mindset when you pick up that fifth year option is that we can work out a longer term deal.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, I, I agree. I just think that.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah, but you're right. Rousseau's got to be thinking, I put up some numbers, somebody's going to pay me a hundred percent.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Jacksonville's probably chomping at the bit to get another guy from Buffalo.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah, you're, you're probably right.

[Dan Fates]

And again, if you're. I am a. As you know, the salary cap isn't real. You always say if they would, if they wanted to, they would all those kind of things with the seller cap. But at some point your job as a GM is to evaluate talent and technically put price tags on the player that you see. And at some point bad buys are bad buys for the team. So if you sit there and say, hey, Greg, we think you're a $18 million a year guy, and all of a sudden four other teams are saying you're worth 19, 20, like, go get it.

[Mike Catalan]

Like.

[Dan Fates]

And that's, that's. And again, because if the Bills thought he was worth 20 million, they would do that as well. Because if they wanted to, they would. And that, that they will probably play some type of salary cap. Monty of like, hey, look over here, and they'll spend it somewhere else. But it. My fear is that this is who Greg Russo is. A good player, but not a great player and he may get a great contract.

[Mike Catalan]

So the reason I brought up the ego thing is you've spent money on Von. Didn't work. You drafted Boogie Basham in the second round. You paid Ed Oliver, who's a good player.

[Dan Fates]

Good player.

[Mike Catalan]

And now you have Rousseau. Let's just pretend for a second. You let Rousseau walk at the end of the year and Vaughn's gone and Rousseau's gone and Boogie's gone. You better have somebody to play those positions because you're going to have to go out and spend that money, like, you know what I'm saying? It's like you're going to have to go out and spend. It's funny sweat from the Eagles who had the incredible Super Bowl. Somebody's going to overpay him. He's a good player. Honestly, during the year, Craig Russo was as good as him. He just. He picked a really good time to go out and ball out two and a half sacks in the Super Bowl. So somebody is going to pay him going out onto the market and it's going to set that number high. But, yeah, I just think he's got to prioritize because that is the position that has to be the biggest headache for Beam because he spent the most money and spent the most resources and you're still trying to figure it out.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. Do you think in the draft, you think early rounds they go that too?

[Mike Catalan]

D tackle, D end.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Oh, my. I'm so. I'm so sick of it. There's just been so many investments in that line and for them to play good, not great. It's. It's. Yeah.

[Mike Catalan]

It happens to be a draft that is considered deep.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yes.

[Mike Catalan]

In those positions, which is good.

[Jenna Cottrell]

But again, everybody loves picks until they're players, so we'll see.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Do you think Miles Garrett, Max Crosby, someone like that. Obviously this would all change your draft approach. Approach. Depending on what happens with that and free agent wise. But do you think the Bills do target or at least trade what. You know what I'm talking about. Try to get a big.

[Mike Catalan]

So I found it funny, not interesting, that when people were proposing trades and NFL people, they would include like Greg Rousseau in it. And I thought to myself, no, because if you. Not the Bills position, I should clip that. I'm talking about if you're the Cleveland Browns. You're sitting there going, wait a minute.

[Dan Fates]

The salary cap is real.

[Mike Catalan]

No, but I'm looking at it going, wait a minute. Now you're trading me a player that I have to make a decision on basically right away with a contract, and I'm just getting him. I'm probably better off if I'm the Cleveland Browns. I'm probably better off with a young player starting on that rookie deal than I am a guy who is ready to get paid. I don't think there is great trade value in players at the end of their contracts. Right. Unless you're Miles Garrett. You're that kind of player. It's funny, my first thought was, go get Miles Garrett. Go get Max Crosby. I kind of come off of that a little bit.

[Dan Fates]

He's a flip flopper.

[Mike Catalan]

I'm a little bit of a flip flopper on this. Only because I think they need multiple players and I think they need. You need to draft well, but you need young, impactful players to build that up. It's great to say. Would Myles Garrett help you? Of course he would. Would Max Crosby help you? Of course he would. But it's resources, money, and, and this will. This will cost you somebody else, right? Could cost you Khalil Shakir. Could cost you Terrell Bernard. Right?

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, Yeah, I hear you.

[Dan Fates]

Go get a guy. Go get a dude.

[Jenna Cottrell]

A proven dude.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah, okay.

[Dan Fates]

I, I just.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Why do you say it like that?

[Mike Catalan]

Well, the reason I say it is because they tried it with Vaughn and if.

[Jenna Cottrell]

But that doesn't mean it's always going to. No, but they still gotta take swings.

[Mike Catalan]

Yes, but they're still. Vaughn is still there.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I broke up with my first boyfriend and I kept dating. Like, it's like, that would be crazy if you're like, you know what, I'm just done forever.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah, but that's like, you broke up with him, but he's still there. Like, Von's still living in the apartment. I'm saying is like, you're still paying for Vaughn.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, but I'm. Yes, I hear what you are saying, but I do think you still have to take. Keep taking shots and swings because that's.

[Mike Catalan]

The way you looked at.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Oh, my God, took a lot of swings.

[Mike Catalan]

No, but I agree with you. Except because of the failed draft picks and the. You haven't hit on those. It makes it tough to go out and make that swing.

[Dan Fates]

I'd love to see the fight. I don't think it does.

[Mike Catalan]

I think it does for this year.

[Dan Fates]

I think you have to evaluate it as it is and you have to look at what your team is now. That team was different then when they made the move for Von. This is a team that is consistently proven to be 3 inches short and to have a guy that can make that play that goes the other way. And that's where I'm still sitting there. And I go, I still think that you can find, not necessarily Rasool Douglas or not. Not talking about a top end corner, but you can fill in holes with depth and free agent fines. Like, I mean, Mac Hollins is a great example of like a guy that feels fit and it all worked out. And like, that's also on a bunch of other factors. But damn it, like, we're sitting here going like, hey, like you need to find that third round guy that can play maybe some mop up time in this game. Like we still don't know what Javon Solomon is. We still don't know about Dwayne Carter. And we're sitting there like hey, good thing we picked up that third round pick from that one trade.

[Mike Catalan]

I'm not disagreeing with you on getting a guy. I'm saying is because you're still paying Matt Milano and you're still paying the.

[Dan Fates]

Salary cap isn't real.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah it is because you he's flip flopping on everything. No, here's what I'm saying to you is because with a guy like Von you you expected him to be better longer then he hurt his knee.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalan]

The idea is obviously Josh Allen's contract doesn't impact anything. The two that impact them the most right now I think are Vaughn and Milano and also Daquan Jones. Look at the contract, it still impacts you. So that's the only reason I'm saying is like honestly I think this world for them will look a lot different in a year and if he can figure it out and do it and push things down and however he wants to try to manipulate it then that's great. But it's funny, you swung right back into all these other guys. You get one dude. I'm saying they need multiple dudes on that defense. Multiple dudes, not just one.

[Dan Fates]

I don't care about depth. I don't care about how depth.

[Mike Catalan]

I'm talking about starters.

[Dan Fates]

I'm right. Find four starters. I don't care about. Well you need a guy that can be behind him and all these things. I don't care. And when we go to the combine, I don't care about versatility. I'm so over it. I want guys that are just game wreckers that they have one thing that is unblockable or one thing that is unguardable. I want guys that have the 102 mile per hour fastballs. I don't want the pitcher that can throw five pitches and he's always around the plate and he doesn't walk anybody. I want guys that are have a plus plus traits and Max Crosby and Miles Garrett have a plus plus traits.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah. And they're going to cost you draft picks eight and money. Okay, yeah, okay, that's fine. I just don't. I think it's going to be tough for them to do it. They got a lot of replacing.

[Dan Fates]

Don't you dare leave me on my island all by myself saying the Sarah cap isn't real. We, we have been thick as thieves.

[Mike Catalan]

But what do we say about that all the time? You have the ability to manipulate new contracts.

[Dan Fates]

Uhhuh.

[Mike Catalan]

I'm saying it's less about going out and getting Miles Garrett. It's more about still paying for Von Miller and even Matt Milano.

[Dan Fates]

You're cutting Von? Von's done. We're done.

[Mike Catalan]

Okay. You think Milano is still there?

[Dan Fates]

You think Vaughn's back?

[Mike Catalan]

I guess I just look at it and say he might be. It depends on what they do, quite honestly. It depends on what they do.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, I completely agree.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

You want to pay that much money for a below average 3rd down pass rush?

[Mike Catalan]

I don't think they want to. I think if they're looking at it saying it's going to cost us X dollars for one more year on the cap, if now this would be provided they don't go, maybe if they make a move for Miles Garrett, they have to clear enough other space and they just go ahead and bite the bullet on it. I don't know. I just look at it sometimes and I think. I think they need multiple new starters on that defensive side of the ball.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, I agree with that.

[Mike Catalan]

And Miles Garrett, Max Crosby make you better right away. It's just. Can you get the other guys too? You want dudes on that team too?

[Dan Fates]

I want dudes.

[Mike Catalan]

I want Douglas a dude.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I don't think anymore.

[Mike Catalan]

Is Daquan Jones a dude?

[Dan Fates]

Nope.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I don't think anymore.

[Mike Catalan]

Is Greg Russo a dude?

[Dan Fates]

Nope.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I don't think so.

[Mike Catalan]

Is Demar Hamlin a dude?

[Dan Fates]

Nope. But you're. I. What is, what are you getting at with that?

[Mike Catalan]

I say this is because even Vaughn was just a free agent signing. This is multiple draft picks and the free agency and you failed on some of these other draft picks.

[Dan Fates]

Everybody loves the picks until they're players.

[Mike Catalan]

Well, they made these picks and they're all good players. The four we're talking about resigning.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

You can find a quarter was the one where like.

[Mike Catalan]

Right.

[Dan Fates]

And you can find quarterbacks in the sixth round like Tom Brady. No, I'm saying don't give up that six round pick.

[Jenna Cottrell]

But I will say if you have a dude, it makes everyone else better too.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Like especially D line.

[Mike Catalan]

Okay. Hey, if he does it, I'll be all in on it.

[Dan Fates]

You'll.

[Jenna Cottrell]

No, you're not. You're not allowed to be all in on it. You're not allowed. Do you think he does?

[Mike Catalan]

No.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Do you think he does?

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Do I want him to? Yes.

[Mike Catalan]

So I. Hey, I want there to be Great players here. And then I want to be.

[Dan Fates]

Don't.

[Mike Catalan]

Apparently you don't. I want to be able to get Bean on the patio again and say to him, we were right.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Well, we would be right either way. Because you said no. And you said yes.

[Mike Catalan]

No, no, no. I'm saying is in terms of him saying, once again, we're not going to be big spenders and free. This basically would be free agency.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, that's what I said about my wedding. Guess what? You got to play the game, spend the money. Expensive. It is, honestly. It's kind of like that, though, where you're like, we're not going to spend a lot of money. And then you're like, well, what I want.

[Dan Fates]

It's actually a great analogy.

[Jenna Cottrell]

What I want and what I expect, I'm going to have to spend a little bit more, but it'll be worth it. Maybe the chairs aren't as nice or whatever, but the food's going to be good.

[Mike Catalan]

And it's for that day, which is going to be an awesome day. Then you got to pay for it.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, I've been paying for it for a year and a half. Don't tell me about that.

[Mike Catalan]

And let's see. Let's see what he decides to do.

[Jenna Cottrell]

But now I want him to make a move. I mean, I already wanted him to.

[Dan Fates]

Make a move, but he didn't think Joshua and ov.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

You know what? Oh, Jenna, he's not gonna win. Yeah, I think he is.

[Dan Fates]

Jed and I are back at the station. Mike calls, and he's like, well, he's not gonna win it.

[Jenna Cottrell]

You made it seem like it was preposterous.

[Mike Catalan]

No. By the way, neither of you said he was going to win it until that day.

[Jenna Cottrell]

We're talking about the phone call, though, where I said, well, because I think Josh is gonna win. You said, we're off the rails.

[Dan Fates]

Off the rails.

[Mike Catalan]

Well, once it got out that he was going to win, then all the betting odds changed.

[Dan Fates]

He was never not the favorite to an mvp. He was always the favorite.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Very true.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

And then I said, I was. And you were like, well, he wasn't all first team, all pro. And I said, yes, but if you remember, like, a lot of the guys on ESPN and the people were talking about how they were going to split their vote, and you were saying, oh, actually, it really wouldn't take that many people to change their vote for. For Josh to win.

[Dan Fates]

Anywho, credit to me. Wrap this.

[Mike Catalan]

Wrap this paper to you for what?

[Jenna Cottrell]

No, this.

[Mike Catalan]

Oh, I thought you Were taking credit for something flip that.

[Dan Fates]

I wish we had a one shot. Just like. Just I thought it to you for what?

[Mike Catalan]

I thought you were gonna take credit for Joshua in the mvp. Okay, you will at some point. You will. Jenna will.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That was so good.

[Dan Fates]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That was good. Wow. Okay, Michael. Michael, you want to start?

[Mike Catalan]

All right.

[Dan Fates]

Credit to me. I watched the super bowl again.

[Mike Catalan]

No, but credit to me for this. Everybody's watching the hockey. It's been great. You know what I like about the hockey? I like there's a little bit of hate going on. I like that in sports. I think we've lost too much of that. I grew up loving the teams I loved and hating the other teams. I still do. I have an irrational hate for the Boston Celtics and the Dallas Cowboys. Honestly, it's so sad. I look at people as lesser people when they're Cowboys fans or Celtics fans. It's a terrible thing. I'll say to my wife sometimes. Look at that poor guy. She'll be like, what's wrong? I go, look. And she'll go, oh, he's wearing a Cowboys hat. Like, it's a sign of bad parenting. We all know that, but it's bad. I think there needs to be more hate in sports, and I'm talking about hating for a team, not the individual person. Too many people just love everybody, and they follow sports. They follow the player. They buy jerseys of players on other teams. It's fantasy football and all that. There needs to be more of that in sports. Get back to where you despise it. When you're a Bills fan and Thurman Thomas signed with the Dolphins, you were sick to your stomach. Not only was he gone, he went to the Dolphins. That's what needs to be in sports more. And I love seeing it in hockey. I love seeing it with Canada and the U.S. they're going to play again on Thursday. I think we need more. I think we've gotten too far away from that. That's what makes sports fun.

[Dan Fates]

That is why you, my friend, are a Hall of Famer. Just. Just open mic it on your hate. Bring hate back.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, I'm thinking of, like, the NFL. Like, end hate. Mike's like, actually, yeah.

[Mike Catalan]

No, no, no.

[Dan Fates]

It's.

[Mike Catalan]

It's the real. It's sports hate. Hate.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yes.

[Mike Catalan]

But it's also.

[Dan Fates]

But it's funny that if you were to write down your, like, the words that you just said, obviously there's context. It's really funny to be.

[Mike Catalan]

I.

[Dan Fates]

It's okay to hate Cowboy fans.

[Mike Catalan]

I Listen, the Chiefs have been incredible, but I've gotten so sick. And we've all got. Watching them win and win. It's because they're really, really good.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Absolutely.

[Mike Catalan]

I enjoyed seeing them lose so much. All it. It was borderline with enjoying seeing the Eagles win. It was that good.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Mike Catalan]

To see them lose because of the Bills and because of all that we've seen. I think that's good. I think it's good for sports.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Mike Catalan]

And I think it makes people buy into their sports and the product more.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalan]

Because it's not like I won't draft a guy from the Cowboys in fantasy football. I don't want to root for him.

[Dan Fates]

It's kind of. What is the best thing about college sports.

[Mike Catalan]

Yes.

[Dan Fates]

Because you hate the college. You don't hate you, you hate the player. But it's because of the. The jersey, the color that they're wearing, the university they attend.

[Mike Catalan]

You know what freaks me out a little bit is. And maybe it's changing now because of that, but I had friends of mine that were like Penn State fans, and they would root for the conference.

[Dan Fates]

Oh, I'm not a fan of that.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. That's kind of weird.

[Mike Catalan]

I think maybe that's changed a little bit. Like, how could you root for Ohio State after that's.

[Dan Fates]

That's how you pretzel your way into it. After they win, you root against them, and then when they win, you're like, hey, we're still part of the best conference.

[Mike Catalan]

Yes.

[Dan Fates]

Like.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yes.

[Dan Fates]

You don't root for them during the game.

[Jenna Cottrell]

The back door, like. Well, yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Well, actually.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalan]

On. While I'm here on the Bill's hate meter, it's Chiefs 1, right. There's nobody in the division that's even.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Even.

[Mike Catalan]

Who's two.

[Dan Fates]

There's more bad blood versus the Jets.

[Mike Catalan]

Yes.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yes.

[Dan Fates]

Because the Dolphins, it's not a rivalry. It is picking on your little brother.

[Mike Catalan]

But it's weird with the Patriots because they were so much better than the Bills. Now the Bills are so much better than them. They've. They rarely were in except when they played in the playoffs. And the Bills, you know, did the perfect game against them, which was awesome.

[Dan Fates]

That was such a good credit to me.

[Mike Catalan]

But in this case, I like when there's. I get a little more divisional hate back.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Mike Catalan]

Would be nice. I think the jets are the ones down the road, prime for it.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Mike Catalan]

Be easy with the Patriots, but I love that part of sports.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I think the players really hate the Jets.

[Mike Catalan]

That is something.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I think they also Hate the Chiefs, but I think. I think they respect the Chiefs and just hate.

[Mike Catalan]

Yes. And I think I love Deion for that. I love that he is open about it. Can't stand that team.

[Dan Fates]

Love it.

[Mike Catalan]

They're posing for Instagram fake football players.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Love that. You want to go so hard.

[Dan Fates]

I'll do it. Because mine's simple. You actually have a good one. I finished. Yeah, I like yours. I. I finished a home project that's been on the list for, like, two months.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That feels so crossing that off the list.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. So credit to me. I grouted the bathroom tile of our backsplash. Grouted. And there's.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Can you spell grout?

[Dan Fates]

Nope.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yes, you can.

[Dan Fates]

No, I can't. Because I had to Google how to do it. And it was like, what are you saying?

[Mike Catalan]

Because it was like, spelled it in Google. Google's like, what?

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, it was like. I. I was.

[Mike Catalan]

I think I had G, R, O.

[Dan Fates]

U, T. It's UT And I had O, O, T. And then. But, like, nothing was coming up.

[Mike Catalan]

Greg Rousseau, right? No, but it was like, secretly love Rousseau. He's your favorite player.

[Dan Fates]

No, but it was like, okay. I didn't get what I was like, back backsplash bathroom tile. And it was like, oh, you mean grout grout. And you're like, yeah, there it is.

[Mike Catalan]

I'm trying to fix this groot in my house. Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

And it's a. It was behind the bathroom, like, faucet. So, like, we had our contractor put in the tile. And I was like, well, I can crowd it. It's not that tough. I don't like when my wife sits over my shoulder when I don't know what I'm doing. And she's like. She's like, are you.

[Mike Catalan]

Are you sure you're doing that right?

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, I just wanted to be like, go to any other place in the house. But it's that. That thought of you're smearing this stuff all over the place, and it looks awful. And she's like, are you sure you're doing this right? No, I'm not. And I was like, it said, it's supposed to be the consistency of creamy peanut butter. And she's like, that's not creamy peanut butter. I was like, this is what it is. She's like, are you supposed to be using this tool or that tool? I don't know. But it's oddly satisfying to take the sponge.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Wipe it.

[Mike Catalan]

And it looks good.

[Dan Fates]

It was like, it's pretty cool.

[Mike Catalan]

At any point, did you turn to Renee and Say, well, why don't you just do it?

[Dan Fates]

No, I've. I've.

[Mike Catalan]

You can't do that. There's no coming back from that.

[Dan Fates]

She did that the other day, though. She's like, hey, can you take a look at this vent? We had new drywall put in in one of the rooms. And I went to go look at the vent because she's like, it's wobbly. And I was like, wasn't this the one that you put in? And she's like, yeah, because she was impatient.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Oh, that's me.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. She didn't match the screw holes. So she just put the one screw through a drywall.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I could see myself doing that.

[Dan Fates]

I was like, hey, babe. Like, was this the one that you did? She's like, yeah. Why? It's like the holes lined up. It's like, there are no holes here. You just brand new drywall screw right through it. So, yeah, Grouted. And I explained to my wife that there's no structural integrity of this grout. Like, it's the tile adhesive that sticks it to the wall. So if this. If this falls off, it's fine.

[Jenna Cottrell]

It's not going to hurt any of the structural integrity.

[Dan Fates]

But. Yeah.

[Mike Catalan]

So I just pictured Dan typing in Groot.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yes, I could. I feel like grout's pretty. It's like trout grass route. Like, I don't know. That would be a good Wordle Word. Sorry, do you guys wordle?

[Dan Fates]

Nope.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Okay.

[Mike Catalan]

Remember we did you. You. I didn't know anything about word.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, I like Wordle's fun.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Okay. My credit to me is I am going on vacation in Florida next week and the sun is supposed to be there. If you had anyone, if you live in western New York, if you're around western New York, if you live in the northeast, you've probably talked about and seeing how bad this winter has been and it's been brutal. So I'm very excited to be on a beach with a drink in hand. And if you see me in Florida next week. No, you didn't.

[Mike Catalan]

So that's great. I'm glad you're going. We have not had winter for a few years.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalan]

We're in Rochester. Buffalo gets. It's down the road. It gets way more snow than we do. Like, crazy amount this winter. It's been a lot.

[Dan Fates]

My driveway is an ice rink.

[Mike Catalan]

It's terrible.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, the snowbanks. It's hard to even see around.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah, it's a lot.

[Jenna Cottrell]

It's been brutal on my car too, by the way.

[Mike Catalan]

I saw in places like towards, like, Montana and all that. It's like wind chill of 50 below. Like, I think ours is bad. And then I'm like, oh, my God.

[Jenna Cottrell]

It'S supposed to get cold this week. I can't even imagine what that's like there.

[Mike Catalan]

That's just brutal. Well, good for you. You would well deserve trip.

[Jenna Cottrell]

You guys are also going to the combine?

[Dan Fates]

Yep.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah, we're going to Indy. Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Beautiful this time of the year.

[Mike Catalan]

Well, you know what?

[Dan Fates]

It'll be beautiful, baby.

[Jenna Cottrell]

How many reservations we have?

[Dan Fates]

Two.

[Mike Catalan]

We know we're going to one.

[Dan Fates]

We know we're going to 1. You just can't. You can't.

[Mike Catalan]

We're not giving up.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Maybe next year we can all go. Because I want to go back to Elmo.

[Mike Catalan]

I'm gonna auction off that second one.

[Dan Fates]

She has always said she doesn't like the combine, and now that we've talked up Elmo so much, she's like, I.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Might go back to the shrimp cocktail is banging.

[Mike Catalan]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

And I don't really eat steak often, but when I eat steak, I want it to be a really good one. And that's what St. Elm's is.

[Dan Fates]

Pretty damn good one.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. Okay. This was a wild podcast. All right.

[Mike Catalan]

I love getting that hate out for.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Mike and Dan fades. I'm Jenna Cottrell. Thank you for watching. Please be sure to, like, comment, subscribe, and share. We always appreciate it. We'll catch you next time here on the Buffalo plus channel, presented by Connors and fair.